**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 19 02:59:58 2013 Feb 19 03:00:36 morning morning morning! Feb 19 03:03:01 3:02am, soo errr yeah, morning Feb 19 03:03:07 11am :P Feb 19 03:03:15 ugh Feb 19 03:03:38 well in all honesty I've only been up 3 hours Feb 19 03:03:41 :) Feb 19 03:03:50 so it's like my 11am too Feb 19 03:07:00 10am :D Feb 19 03:07:12 I had breakfast 5 hours ago... went back to bed, got woken up by UPS delivering a phone :) Feb 19 03:07:38 new toy? Feb 19 03:07:44 nexus 4? Feb 19 03:07:59 One V, a gift from HTC Feb 19 03:08:41 that's good of them Feb 19 03:09:06 it is - they're nice folks over there Feb 19 03:09:12 whats this htc 12 hours to go bollox ? Feb 19 03:10:11 they're announcing the M7/One/whatever, and they're trying to stoke rumours about something else - I've seen suggestions of a Windows tablet... Feb 19 03:10:24 ugh Feb 19 03:10:40 also, apparently Ubuntuututu have a countdown to something - possibly also a tablet - which ends at the same time as the HTC one, but that's probably just a coincidence Feb 19 03:10:49 i remember when htc was the only smart phone name to be considered Feb 19 03:11:12 the universal, fkin loved that phone Feb 19 03:11:21 micro laptop Feb 19 03:11:22 :) Feb 19 03:13:44 it says "tick, tock, tablet time" on the ubuntu home page Feb 19 03:13:51 i'm pretty sure it'll be a tablet Feb 19 03:14:02 yeah, probably :) Feb 19 03:14:16 could be that they're going into the pharma business? Feb 19 03:14:16 i suppose unity wont be a complete disaster on a tablet Feb 19 03:14:17 vacuum cleaner !!! Feb 19 03:15:18 pills, yeah Feb 19 03:15:41 if the tablet was pressure sensitive then yes Feb 19 03:16:15 thats what I want, maybe capac screen with pressure pen etc Feb 19 03:19:12 Hi, I'm displaying a webview that includes JS, lots of dynamic content etc, and I'm getting errors spewing out of LogCat: GL_ERROR - after deleteUnusedTextures() glError (0x502) - I have no idea what's causing it. Doesn't seem to affect the app at all. Is it just a bug in Android? Feb 19 03:19:22 whats the idea when syncronize is used ? Feb 19 03:20:38 ah now i know Feb 19 03:20:39 :) Feb 19 03:21:26 Smashcat: ask in phonegap channel or something Feb 19 03:21:52 StingRay_: I'm not using Phonegap - It's an Android app, but it uses a WebView for one part Feb 19 03:22:22 oh then dont lol, I only see lots of people complain about it Feb 19 03:22:26 if thats an option Feb 19 03:22:28 :) Feb 19 03:23:21 Heh, yeah, I don't use any of that stuff, just Java. I'm using a webview as the app links to a site. Feb 19 03:23:51 I'll try rebooting it, see if the error goes away :) Feb 19 03:24:02 well then parse the site info and go more android with the data Feb 19 03:24:56 StingRay: Nah, all the branding etc is on there. Would take too much time to do it in Android, then they'll change it again etc. So easier to display their site for that bit. Feb 19 03:25:21 well, can still use web resources/gfx/info etc Feb 19 03:25:28 so it updates Feb 19 03:25:35 gets you away from webview then Feb 19 03:25:36 :) Feb 19 03:26:21 StingRay_: It's using a lot of JS for animation, and the UI. It's not worth all the time to replicate that when a webview will do it :) Feb 19 03:28:50 Meh, still doing it after reboot. Obviously an Android bug - I'll try to make atest case and submit it. Feb 19 03:29:32 I dont get he point of web apps, or using bits of them Feb 19 03:29:44 why would a user not just use a browser Feb 19 03:29:51 more support etc Feb 19 03:30:27 StingRay_: Makes a lot of sense if there's an app that's mostly native (to use NFC, Camera, accel etc), but needs to link to a site. Feb 19 03:31:01 hmmm Feb 19 03:31:20 StingRay_: Plus a webapp has total control of the browser - you can change links, call on methods in the Android app from JS etc. Feb 19 03:31:23 as a user I would want a full app to connect to the site Feb 19 03:32:25 StingRay_: The app I'm working on has enhanced functionality when the Android app accesses the site. This functionality is not available in a normal browser. Feb 19 03:35:27 i find webviews in apps a major turn off Feb 19 03:35:55 there's so much lacking when you don't use the browser Feb 19 03:36:34 alex_PP: If people are using it just as a browser, then yes, it's not a great idea. I'd hope any serious dev doesn't do that though Feb 19 03:39:46 just avoid this use case: http://www.xkcd.com/1174/ Feb 19 03:40:02 I've used it once or twice for things like an about screen Feb 19 03:41:40 I mainly do event installations - only need to support 1 device type usually, and can use what I like. It's all last minute stuff. One of the main reasons for the webview is to ensure people can't break out of an app at an event - or navigate off somewhere else. Feb 19 03:43:01 Also means if they change a design, or some UI stuff, I don't need to change the Android app - specially when it's on lots of devices (recent one went on 500 tablets :) ) Feb 19 04:31:14 StingRay_: earlier, did you say that play services and the intel images don't work together? or something like that ? Feb 19 04:38:26 yes Feb 19 04:38:31 g00s: Feb 19 04:41:21 StingRay_: is that official? Feb 19 04:41:26 I'm trying to modify the smilies in the AOSP keyboard, in the xml files it refers to the smileys as ' latin:moreKeys="!text/more_keys_for_smiley"' can someone explain to me where that is refering to? Feb 19 04:41:46 it's officially what I found in about 2 minutes of using intel image Feb 19 04:42:17 i found more_keys_for_smiley in 'tools/maketext/res/values/donottranslate-more-keys.xml' but modifying that file and rebuilding the apk doesn't seem to actually modify it Feb 19 04:42:26 i mean, do the docs anywhere say "play services don't work in x86 images in the emu" my google-fu is failing Feb 19 04:42:47 g00s: ah, no never read it Feb 19 04:42:56 but would be interested in your results :) Feb 19 04:43:04 as not an option in AVD for me Feb 19 04:43:23 hence why I said "dont know if it's just me" Feb 19 04:45:12 hi Feb 19 04:46:40 g00s: that should be obvious Feb 19 04:47:17 JakeWharton: it should ? Feb 19 04:47:44 there was never Google APIs in the x86 builds Feb 19 04:47:51 there was never Google Play in the x86 builds or any emu Feb 19 04:47:53 therefore... Feb 19 04:48:06 just pull them from a device and push them onto the image Feb 19 04:54:17 StingRay_: yeah, when I create an AVD the CPU/ABI is hard-coded to ARM. Feb 19 04:54:47 so the x86 builds are … not so useful Feb 19 04:54:50 :) Feb 19 04:59:54 g00s: thats why I run the VM sometimes Feb 19 05:00:04 play, gmail, everything Feb 19 05:00:09 and fast as hell Feb 19 05:01:33 StingRay_: the VM ? Feb 19 05:01:43 androVM Feb 19 05:01:54 http://androvm.org/blog/ Feb 19 05:02:02 oh. i haven't used the emu in a long time Feb 19 05:27:19 Q: I would like to call a system java function "startActivity(new Intent(Settings.ACTION_WIFI_SETTINGS)); " from c++ side, what would be the best way to do ? Feb 19 05:48:47 g00s: you have to download and install the x86 image to be able to select x86... Feb 19 05:49:05 pragma-: sure, i have the x86 image Feb 19 05:49:17 but if you want Google APIs you have to use the ARM image Feb 19 05:49:24 (from what i can tell) Feb 19 05:49:33 why? Feb 19 05:49:41 i'm using the api's on my x86 acer Feb 19 05:49:47 installed with eeepc image Feb 19 05:49:59 thats what the avd manager allow me Feb 19 05:58:36 Does anyone know if the Android camera is active if the preview is paused, but the Camera is not released? Feb 19 06:00:05 would that not depend on your def. of active ? Feb 19 06:00:34 unusable by anything else == active ? Feb 19 06:00:49 StingRay_: I mean powered Feb 19 06:01:01 oh then I would assume so Feb 19 06:01:20 not really sure, but doubt it would power down on a pause Feb 19 06:01:32 think it would need to be released for that Feb 19 06:01:38 Need to know for definite really. The app will be on 24/7 for a few weeks, so don't want the cam powered all the time Feb 19 06:02:05 then release it Feb 19 06:02:57 StingRay_: Well that's why I asked, if it's not powered when the preview is pauised, then there's no need to release it Feb 19 06:14:41 Problem is that this Nexus 7 seems to be very unstable when starting and stopping the camera. App crashes out - no errors, it just stops. Weird - doesn't happen on a Nexus phone Feb 19 06:16:17 When it dies, always get a weird error: "Finsky [1] 5.onFinished: Installation State replication succeeded" - pretty bizarre! Feb 19 06:18:24 er, Finsky is the play store app, AFAIK Feb 19 06:19:07 Leeds: Yeah it's strange - that comes up as soon as the app stops, every time. It doesn't come up if the app's not running Feb 19 06:41:38 anyone here use sliding menu lib ? Feb 19 06:50:56 Hmm, think I'm going to give up on this N7 and do this project on the N10. Camera's way too flaky on the 7. Feb 19 06:53:53 ok, stupid question - whats the difference between Google Apis and Google Play Services ? Feb 19 06:54:11 i thought the latter replaced the former Feb 19 06:54:30 g00s: Google APIs are APIs. Feb 19 06:54:35 but even for sdk 17, i see the option for Google Apis Feb 19 06:54:41 they're different Feb 19 06:54:54 g00s: No apps Feb 19 06:55:01 *Not apps Feb 19 06:56:25 Leeds: whats the relationship (if any) between the two ? Feb 19 06:56:52 for example, i thought the play services was refactored google stuff that they wanted to be able to update quicker Feb 19 06:56:58 Ah... Think I might have an idea with this N7 - leave the camera+preview running all the time offscreen, and move it back on when it's needed. Doesn't seem to crash then. Feb 19 06:57:17 g00s: dunno, ask a googler Feb 19 07:00:36 Leeds: so the plot thickens; apparently the email app is on physical 4.2 stock devices, but not the emu image O.o Feb 19 07:00:48 sure, of course it's on devices Feb 19 07:00:56 not gmail, email Feb 19 07:01:38 anyhow, doesn't make sense that vanilla email isn't in the emu Feb 19 07:02:01 (sdk 17 emu) Feb 19 07:12:34 Anyone know if there's issues with adding surfaces to a view after the app has started? Not in the constructor, or onCreate(), I mean while the app's in use Feb 19 07:30:50 why is my android app requesting permissions from EVERYTHING, i found AndroidManifest.xml and it only has Feb 19 07:30:58 i'm using phonegap Feb 19 07:31:07 website build Feb 19 07:31:58 this is a android dev channel Feb 19 07:31:58 oh, you made it sound like you'd actually built an app Feb 19 07:32:12 phonegap has it's own channel Feb 19 07:36:25 uggg Feb 19 07:37:26 xD Feb 19 07:39:57 phonegap rocks, instead of learning mad java Feb 19 07:43:29 assuming you're not interested in writing android apps, sure Feb 19 07:45:40 Phonegap is good, but Java is also quite ok IMO, better than Objective C by lengths at least Feb 19 07:46:39 Phonegap is ok if you don't care about performance, or UI consistency. Feb 19 07:47:03 +1 Feb 19 07:47:20 seems like only little who care about UI these days... Feb 19 07:47:23 Smashcat, UI consistency can be solved, performance is more of a problem, but I would say it depends on what app you're making Feb 19 07:47:57 of course no one would take the initiative to create a complex app using phonegap. Feb 19 07:48:16 rohdef: Yeah, like I say, if you don't care about the performance (for example an app that just displays some forms to fill in) then it's fine. Feb 19 07:48:41 a3Dman: yeah, right Feb 19 07:48:45 Smashcat: but then you can do a 5 minute android app to do the same thing Feb 19 07:49:19 yes, and it will be Holo at least Feb 19 07:49:35 a3Dman: do you really think there aren't beancounters out there who see phonegap and think "whoa, we can build apps for 157 platforms and only pay for one!!!" Feb 19 07:49:36 StingRay_: Nah, it's much easier to layout using html+css than doing it with Android Layouts. That's what html+css is damn good at Feb 19 07:49:53 nah Feb 19 07:49:58 depends how you approach it Feb 19 07:50:35 Leeds: of course Feb 19 07:51:49 I really wish that Google comes with a stat showing the percentage of apps using Holo in Play Store... Feb 19 07:51:53 StingRay_: Nope, I can lay out a form to match a designers visuals far faster in HTML+CSS than doing it in code. And it'll scale and reflow correctly automatically. That's what those techs are for. That's why you don't see Android widgets used in web pages :) Feb 19 07:52:31 Smashcat: like i said Feb 19 07:52:39 (I don't consider HTML+CSS "code" btw, that's what I meant above, not that I use a GUI for layout) Feb 19 07:52:40 depends how YOU approach it Feb 19 07:52:55 StingRay_: Depends on the design Feb 19 07:53:30 well no, thats more capabilities of what you use to approach it with Feb 19 07:53:56 I can style, layout, construct forms quicker in android that I would be able to in anything else Feb 19 07:54:07 but thats cause I built stuff to be able to do that Feb 19 07:54:13 if we could get rid of those bugs in html+css and get those last settings we've been wishing for the last decade I'd agree Feb 19 07:54:15 StingRay_: We'll have to disagree. Feb 19 07:55:18 but at the level html+css is right now you will run in to annoying things that are more easily solved in for instance android Feb 19 07:55:26 Smashcat: put it this way, in about 8 lines I can have a multi choice widget driven but both visible value and backend value and get that info from local or external db Feb 19 07:55:32 StingRay_: With CSS3 transforms, there are a lot of things that have no counterpart with Android widgets. Well, not without using OpenGL Feb 19 07:56:36 actually I should say 8 tags/statements Feb 19 07:58:43 what about solving the parts where CSS lacks behind? Afaik there's still see no way to

Blah

Feb 19 07:59:16 and for how many years have web devs wanted an clear and easy way to dead center something inside another thing Feb 19 07:59:21 StingRay_: Yep, there's also JS libs like JQuery with plugins to do the same. You can just pass them arrays, or DOM objects, and they create pretty much any type of custom element you can think of. I actually spend more time in C++/C than JS or Java these days, but I find web tech easily faster to develop UIs. Depends on experience though - if you've never used them, then obviously it'll... Feb 19 07:59:23 ...take way longer :) Feb 19 07:59:44 yo, anyone know how long it should take to publish app updates on the app store? Feb 19 07:59:54 rohdef: Actually it's very easy to do that Feb 19 08:00:18 storkme: few minutes to a couple of hours Feb 19 08:00:23 neways this isnt a web/html chat Feb 19 08:00:31 ah okay Feb 19 08:00:31 Smashcat, that will break if the inner div is replaced with an img, or some illogical inconsistent css Feb 19 08:00:32 it's android dev Feb 19 08:00:35 thanks Leeds Feb 19 08:01:03 rohdef: Nope. Been possible to do that for about 20 years :) Feb 19 08:02:14 (although I'll admit if you use some illogical and inconsistent CSS you'll have problems - hehe!) Feb 19 08:02:28 Smashcat, in an easy to understand and consistent css? Last time I saw horizontal center, people did: margin 0 auto;, and then you'd have to do other weird things to center vertically, because margin: auto; wouldn't work, although illogical at least that would've been consistent Feb 19 08:02:31 there not a web/html channel ? Feb 19 08:02:37 that you two can go to ? Feb 19 08:02:41 :) Feb 19 08:02:55 Well, it was quiet in here. Feb 19 08:03:28 the signal was 0, but the noise was 0 too :D Feb 19 08:03:42 + Feb 19 08:04:09 sorry, didn't intend to go off topic :/ Feb 19 08:04:12 rohdef: I won't say any more, but there are several ways to do it. One involving JS, which is simple, one with CSS3, and one by setting the display type of the containers. Here endeth the lesson ;-) Feb 19 08:04:40 should have ended at the point of "I won't say any more" <--- Feb 19 08:06:03 g00s: do you have some kind of register within your services ? Feb 19 08:06:40 StingRay_: register? Feb 19 08:07:09 well I have a service that needs to keep a register of active and eligible clients Feb 19 08:07:37 clients being activities etc Feb 19 08:07:44 oh, ok. i use an EventBus from Guava to do that Feb 19 08:07:52 ah yeah Feb 19 08:07:58 think you mentioned that Feb 19 08:08:23 i think there is one from square too - basic idea is the same Feb 19 08:09:08 uh oh, my droid-1, after a very long time of sanity, is now in an infinite reboot loop Feb 19 08:09:30 aww, play some sad music really loud Feb 19 08:09:42 it was actually sitting in storage and i kept on hearing "DROIIID" . Feb 19 08:09:49 was like, wut dafuq Feb 19 08:09:54 bright eyes....burning like fire... Feb 19 08:18:47 StingRay_: the haxm kext only uses memory when the emu is actually running, right? seems like i have some missing memory :| Feb 19 08:23:25 well is it loaded when not running ? Feb 19 08:24:40 yeah, works great - emu is much faster Feb 19 08:25:00 just trying to account for where the memory is going Feb 19 08:25:15 well i mean is the extension loaded when avd not running ? Feb 19 08:26:30 oh i should see. i guess its ok if its loaded but not holding on to memory Feb 19 08:26:58 well your using a dogs bollox OS Feb 19 08:27:03 kextstat ;) Feb 19 08:27:27 dogs bollox = british = amazingly good Feb 19 08:27:44 lol, i thought that meant 'bad' Feb 19 08:28:03 hence why I typed what it means, just in-case Feb 19 08:29:29 StingRay_: well, kextstat says its taking up about 1G even when i'm not running the emu Feb 19 08:30:02 hi can someone please help me with this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14952171/how-do-i-get-my-android-widget-in-the-right-size-on-start Feb 19 08:30:05 so, anyone know an FTDI library that actually works, instead of just claiming to and erroring all over the place ? Feb 19 08:30:15 StingRay_: size & wired both 0x12000 Feb 19 08:31:41 so not 1g; but it stays at that size when the emu starts :| Feb 19 08:32:13 g00s: but with 0 Ref right ? Feb 19 08:32:42 yeah, 0 refs Feb 19 08:33:09 unload it then Feb 19 08:33:12 just checked mine Feb 19 08:33:14 same Feb 19 08:34:45 looking into it Feb 19 08:35:03 seems the intel hax is dependent on a few outdated/support libs Feb 19 08:35:15 well for me on 10.8 Feb 19 08:35:53 so I think it maybe a trigger in the plist which causes autoload to attach to them Feb 19 08:36:01 just guessing Feb 19 08:36:27 even when i run the emu it says 0 refs Feb 19 08:36:42 well thats current refs to kernel use Feb 19 08:36:45 look at he end Feb 19 08:36:58 you have linked against Feb 19 08:37:05 <*,*,*> Feb 19 08:38:33 Is anyone familiar with AdWhirl Feb 19 08:38:37 I cant get it to work Feb 19 08:38:40 https://www.adwhirl.com/doc/android/AdWhirlAndroidSDKSetup.html Feb 19 08:38:56 hi guys Feb 19 08:39:02 http://pastebin.com/t7ew8z9y this is my code Feb 19 08:39:37 I'm trying to choose a good html5 framework for a simple mobile app, i dont want to repeat common mistakes. PhoneGap? Sencha? Which route would Jesus take? Feb 19 08:39:57 topriddy: Java Feb 19 08:40:19 StingRay_: trolling? Feb 19 08:40:37 topriddy: no jesus definately would use java and no crappy html5 framework Feb 19 08:40:43 :) Feb 19 08:40:48 topriddy: Jesus would tell you to stop drinking hipster kool aid ;) Feb 19 08:41:18 but from my experience doesn't matter which one (PhoneGab is pretty well known) your app anyway won't be "a professional app" so its just small differences Feb 19 08:42:10 its supposed to be a simple app with 3 steps for every process/module. Show a list of Buttons. Users click button 1, he is asks to provide input, and then gets a message as a dialog box from server Feb 19 08:42:39 going native for something simple as that...doesnt seem beneficial Feb 19 08:42:42 yeah the cross platform toolkits won't be so different in that Feb 19 08:42:56 topriddy: eh i guess you are seeing it wrong :D Feb 19 08:43:02 naitive is the ... eh naitive way :D Feb 19 08:43:09 you shoudl think what benefits do you have from doing NOT so Feb 19 08:43:20 my prev experience is blackberry native...android dev minimal to hello world, but i know my Java Feb 19 08:43:54 but in that case yeah you could go html5, but still the different frameworks won't different so much, and in the end none of them will create (what you could call) a professional app Feb 19 08:44:09 but all will end up in some kind (with small differences between the toolkits) html5 app Feb 19 08:44:16 so i'm just basically hoping someone has experience in this route already and can advise on the best practical approach and then hopefully a HTML5 framework to go with...using Blackberry Works HTML...seems too RIM centric Feb 19 08:44:27 so you can really choose from what you like, Phonegab does a solid job with that kind of apps (in my opinion) Feb 19 08:46:41 topriddy: though if you want to start gathering knowledge and practise in making apps for android, such an easy app would be a pretty good start for doing real apps (and not webapps) Feb 19 08:47:11 topriddy: Yeah, Phonegap is fine for most business type apps. There's other libs that specialise more for games etc. I've just started using Marmalade too. It's C++, and compiles to native code for Android, iOS and Win. Feb 19 08:48:28 "it's easy: 70% business want a "mobile app" (usually to showcase stuff or something stupid else), but when looking for someone to do the apps, they won't pay more than 2k $. Phonegap is the new "your website for 50$" from 1995" - Someone on the Internet :) Feb 19 08:48:54 god many likes on G+ for that, since it pretty much hits the nail on the head Feb 19 08:48:58 timroes: Pretty much so. Sadly it really does all they need to do as well. Feb 19 08:48:58 got* Feb 19 08:49:11 yeah but not in a nice way Feb 19 08:49:22 i don't say: never do it Feb 19 08:49:51 Please can anyone please help me with: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14952171/how-do-i-get-my-android-widget-in-the-right-size-on-start Feb 19 08:49:55 timroes: It's "good enough" though :) I personally don' tuse it. I just point clients somewhere else if they want it Feb 19 08:49:57 i think there are use cases for that kind of frameworks, like you have a webapp and just want to create a better mobile experience, I would go with some kind of html+css stuff in that Feb 19 08:50:18 Smashcat: sounds a bit like CodeNameOne. Write Java, compile for all platforms Feb 19 08:50:21 but often I see companies that actually would like to have a real app, and think they can achieve it with html5 + css :) Feb 19 08:50:26 If anyone is familiar with AdWhirl please msg me. I have an (i guess simple) implementation issue. Feb 19 08:50:39 and then having build up that app they wonder why they get all the bad ratings in the app store Feb 19 08:50:58 they think hey this is a nice app looks like every other app they know Feb 19 08:51:02 .. from thei iOS devices.. Feb 19 08:51:58 and f you look at market ratings now that android4+ is growing, ppl don't let you that kind of apps pass like some years ago Feb 19 08:52:07 timroes: well my client is only paying me: $500. All 3 main platforms....just a typical show like 12 buttons/menus, click one, accept user input, create query to hit his web service, show the "trash" is service returns in a msg box. I can quickly learn android for this, i know bb native already, but instincts tell me this is a job for html5 Feb 19 08:52:12 timroes: Yeah, depends what the app's doing though. I wouldn't care if Google rewrote their terrible email app in JS/CSS if it was better than the thing they have now Feb 19 08:52:31 whats your problem with their email app? Feb 19 08:52:48 i like it a lot (except missing imap push functionallity, but from a UI point of view) Feb 19 08:53:01 timroes: Where to start. It's the reason I still carry my iPAd around instead of the NM7 or N10 Feb 19 08:53:04 *N7 Feb 19 08:53:07 topriddy: yeah if you doing that kind of jobs just do it don't give a grap on how it looks Feb 19 08:53:13 they cannot expect anythign for 500$ Feb 19 08:53:20 Smashcat: install k9mail? Feb 19 08:53:47 AlCapwn: I did just that actually. Still not convinced I like it yet Feb 19 08:54:00 k9 mail looks way horrible than google mail imho Feb 19 08:54:04 Try one of their dev releases on their site,Holo theme baby! Feb 19 08:54:15 finally :) Feb 19 08:54:45 Yup, it looked so out of place on my n4 Feb 19 08:55:00 btw i sometimes wonder why there are so many bad apps in the store Feb 19 08:55:06 topriddy: you're undercharging Feb 19 08:55:09 but if I hear then 500$ for an app Feb 19 08:55:29 timroes: an app on 3 'main platforms' (I wonder what the 3rd is) Feb 19 08:55:30 or look at that shit: http://www.freelancer.com/jobs/Android/ Feb 19 08:55:38 Leeds: :D +1 Feb 19 08:55:57 timroes: The Google app may look slightly better, but it generally sucks. It NEVER launches office apps to view documents. It always asks me what to use to open web pages, even when I check the box to remember my choice. No zooming in html emails. Often doesn't notify me of mail. I could go on, but I'd rather stay calm. It sucks :) Feb 19 08:56:24 Does g+ app allow you to save images? Feb 19 08:57:00 2 of that points (the opening ones) shouldn't be a [roblem of the app in fact, but of the opening system (and that sounds weird), no zooming in html mail .. wth? Feb 19 08:57:04 might we talk about different apps :D Feb 19 08:57:04 AlPapwn: Can't remember, I removed it from the list of apps (it's still on teh phone, but hidden) Feb 19 08:57:22 i can zoom pretty fine and all the documents are opening with what i select (or permanent selected) Feb 19 08:57:23 Leeds: what's the average fee? Feb 19 08:57:28 topriddy: what's the 3rd platform? Feb 19 08:57:59 Leeds: iOS, android, Blackberry Feb 19 08:58:00 topriddy: you generally shouldn't do fixed price projects :) Feb 19 08:58:08 bb7 or bb10? Feb 19 08:58:13 bb7 Feb 19 08:58:20 hah Feb 19 08:58:21 if you do fixed price projects you are anyway on the losing side, no matter what happens Feb 19 08:58:26 in fact, double-hah :) Feb 19 08:58:28 timroes: Well, that was my experience. That's why I don't use it any more. I keep my iPad for emails now. Still using the Nexus phone, but the Android tablets don't leave the house Feb 19 08:58:39 topriddy: WP overtook BB :) Feb 19 08:58:48 i only promised android and BB to work fine though....ios dev/app license system tires me Feb 19 08:58:55 g00s: not in Africa/Nigeria Feb 19 08:58:57 (I genuinely expected WP, not BB) Feb 19 08:59:05 er... Nigeria? Feb 19 08:59:12 yes Nigeria...my base Feb 19 08:59:14 yeah i expected that too, and still would have deserved a "hah" :D Feb 19 08:59:54 g00s: BB is still ahead of WP at the moment. In fact WP has lost market since last year Feb 19 09:00:01 hmm... I think we're all expecting to talk developed-world prices Feb 19 09:00:06 not last i saw, hold on … Feb 19 09:00:10 * g00s gets stats Feb 19 09:00:18 g00s: That's what I read yesterday Feb 19 09:00:49 REMINDER: all phone market stats are approximate, most are generated by 'analysis' rather than actually being facts, and things like region and time period make a massive difference Feb 19 09:01:20 Leeds: MS have admitted they're behind BB themselves. They're aiming for the #3 spot. Feb 19 09:02:47 aiming high... Feb 19 09:03:17 g00s: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/18/bill_gates_microsoft_phone_mistake/ Feb 19 09:05:23 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14952171/how-do-i-get-my-android-widget-in-the-right-size-on-start Feb 19 09:08:56 Yeah really $500 for an app for 2-3 platforms is a bit ridiculous, unless you're kind of learning as you do it, and it's not your main job. Well, unless it's an app you can knock out in a day Feb 19 09:09:13 even then it would be too less here Feb 19 09:09:21 or you're working at African rates... Feb 19 09:09:23 Smashcat: ok, 3.2% vs 2.6% XD Feb 19 09:09:46 g00s: Yup, big numbers Feb 19 09:10:24 Smashcat: its NOT my main job....do it at free time. just that client now comes up with ridiculous expectations even though I insist I am doing much as a favour. I can knock it out easily but the look n feel part is where i bother Feb 19 09:10:50 but I was wondering the range in general Feb 19 09:11:02 topriddy: to give you some comparance, we take 1000€ (1337$ - nice number) for each developer day (and ofc its paied by actual time taken not but fixed price, what is usually here for it projects for a thousand reasons), but ofc that are company prices form which you need to pay also the company stuff. as a freelancer I usually take around 80€ (107$) an hour) Feb 19 09:11:32 Smashcat: i do want a good 3rd option though ;) Feb 19 09:11:35 timroes: thank you Feb 19 09:11:39 topriddy: Yeah, best not to do favours really. Either charge the right amount, or do it for free, as it normally ends up with one side or the other being pissed off :) Feb 19 09:11:50 (prices related to germany) Feb 19 09:12:08 and if you're doing it for free, make it *really* clear what you're doing and not doing - things like ongoing support, annual updates, etc. Feb 19 09:12:38 its typical to spend more money on maintenance than development :) Feb 19 09:12:42 just because it's a favour or charity work, doesn't mean you shouldn't be defining your scope Feb 19 09:13:13 and don't do fixed price projects. that has already been stoped in the 90s here :) Clients always tend to change things when they see what you are doing, and there are always problems you can't forsee, so if you make it as a "real" project (not kind of hobby one) always paying by hour (or days) not fixed Feb 19 09:13:40 timroes: where are you O.o Feb 19 09:13:47 germany :) Feb 19 09:13:57 they have their shit together i guess :) Feb 19 09:13:58 what I seem to be doing at the moment is assigning nominal hours to features... so if you want feature X to be added, we call that 10 hours of work Feb 19 09:14:12 g00s: and that though we 'like' burogracy and that shit so much :D Feb 19 09:14:31 timroes: I'm cheaper than you, but I also pay a lot less tax - I suspect Feb 19 09:14:39 i don't think the company i am at the moment (~110 employees, only doing project based work) has a sole fixed proce project Feb 19 09:15:08 Leeds: that might be, but also varies in germany pretty much, depending on how much you earn, how clever you can do your tax declaration and such :D Feb 19 09:15:17 I would say vary between 20% of income up to 50% of income Feb 19 09:15:21 yeah, I'm talking less than 10% Feb 19 09:15:35 I used to be slack on paperwork, but getting things signed off before you start anything is like the most important part of the whole project. That way, both you and the client know what's going to be delivered. It's essential if you want to avoid losing loads of time/money. Feb 19 09:15:45 and if you would do freelancing as main job (what i don't) you would also need to pay insurances from that yourself Feb 19 09:15:56 what insurances? Feb 19 09:16:00 so appriximate they say freelancing gets profitable from 10k€ net income Feb 19 09:16:16 since we have a working health system (:P) health insurance mainly :D Feb 19 09:16:29 I've actually heard a few people recently saying they only work with (at least partial) pre-payment... so if there are issues later you're not chasing to pay rent Feb 19 09:16:34 but if you do it as a main job, you might want to have also insurances that protect you against law suites Feb 19 09:16:35 timroes: You only pay insurance if you have premises where people with visit. Feb 19 09:16:37 and that kind of stuff Feb 19 09:17:11 Smashcat: you always have to have a health insurance in germany Feb 19 09:17:20 ah, don't have to pay anything - except very small fixed usage fees - as long as I'm resident here Feb 19 09:17:21 timroes: Ah yeah, indemnity insurance Feb 19 09:17:24 normally you get that from your job, but as a freelancer you must take care of it yourself Feb 19 09:17:44 Smashcat: yeah thanks for the word :) Feb 19 09:17:51 heh Feb 19 09:18:06 i guess I lack quite a lot of insurance terminoigy in english :D Feb 19 09:18:47 I try to stay away from big payment gateway projects. It's a minefield Feb 19 09:18:59 but ofc if you have premises with visiting ppl or if you have employees there come a lot of more insurances Feb 19 09:20:11 Any ideas: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14952171/how-do-i-get-my-android-widget-in-the-right-size-on-start Feb 19 09:20:23 I'm just freelance; work on my own mostly from home. It's good apart from the constant secual harrassment Feb 19 09:20:29 *sexual Feb 19 09:20:35 :D Feb 19 09:21:20 waaazup Feb 19 09:21:32 yeah the small parts i still do as a freelancer I do also from home, but also there are a lot of ppl that can't work good at home. SO there are quite a lot of these sharing working spaces, where you can shorttime rent working space for you or conference rooms Feb 19 09:21:37 Quasimotto: you sure it reads the property minHeight ? Feb 19 09:22:24 timroes: Yes, I use them too. Luckily a client lets me use their office space in a couple of locations for free! Feb 19 09:22:27 hey timroes, good morning Feb 19 09:22:47 yes its the provider xml and sometimes it workes, but not every time Feb 19 09:22:52 hei pierpark :) Feb 19 09:31:29 Quasimotto: If it's inconsistent then it's probably dependent upon the speed the data is loaded (I assume over a network). Worth checking if something's being measured and laid out before all the data is ready maybe? (admit I haven't looked at your question on SO :) ) Feb 19 09:33:04 I'm just trying simonVT slide menu Feb 19 09:33:45 have a listView in a fragment in the menuslider Feb 19 09:33:56 no events are fired (clicks) Feb 19 09:34:36 even put list view with onclicks in there, but neither the item or onClicks are fired Feb 19 09:34:50 they work fine out of that menuSlider Feb 19 09:35:00 just me ? or common ? Feb 19 09:35:54