**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 11 02:59:57 2007 Nov 11 04:07:35 what is this SDK you speak of Nov 11 17:06:59 tomorrow we'll understand android distro Nov 11 17:07:03 wow Nov 11 17:50:17 tomorrow we'll get a new press release about the android distro. Nov 11 17:50:57 or one could go to openmoko.com and download something right now. Nov 11 17:51:04 whoops, sorry, felt into rant mode. :) Nov 11 17:52:35 yes, but openmoko isn't complete... Nov 11 17:52:54 linux itself isnt 'complete', from a certain point of view. Nov 11 17:53:32 android will be: linux kernel + X windows + _graphical toolkit_ Nov 11 17:53:50 where graphical toolkit is unknown Nov 11 17:54:07 i cant imagine google writing their own, so its probably gtk or qt Nov 11 17:54:31 then add GData access library Nov 11 17:54:49 which begs the question, why a whole new distro for that? Nov 11 18:17:40 * Sput would prefer Qtopia over OpenMoko, but GPL is probably not an option. Nov 11 18:21:28 i had always assumed android is a 99% gpl platform. Nov 11 18:21:48 or otherwise opensource. Nov 11 18:21:51 don-o: it's apache-licensed Nov 11 18:22:06 ah, even better. Nov 11 18:23:05 id kind of like to see no X-windows and QT using framebuffer directly Nov 11 18:24:22 yeah, it's said that would make the GUI really snappy Nov 11 18:26:04 i hope android will have a high-level interpreted language as a standard component. Nov 11 18:33:41 Qtopia uses framebuffer directly Nov 11 18:34:12 Qtopia-based phones don't run an X server Nov 11 18:35:40 don-o: it depends on if you like your software free and continue to be free or not. Nov 11 18:36:40 os even if the system is free, companies do not have to contribute back Nov 11 18:36:50 so even, rather Nov 11 18:40:28 great for business, bad for free software Nov 11 18:41:05 ljp: apache seems to be doing okay Nov 11 18:44:19 thats fone for apache. but android is not a web server Nov 11 18:44:25 fine, that is Nov 11 18:45:29 and the phone industry is very closed. Nov 11 18:45:51 and this allows them to continue that Nov 11 18:47:10 ljp: they very foundation, the kernel, is GPL. it doesnt force anyone to go open, and it shouldnt. it is a huge push in that direction. Nov 11 18:47:30 s/it/android/ Nov 11 18:48:16 to suggest that android is business as usual for cell manufacturers because its not GPL doesnt make sense to me Nov 11 18:49:10 if android is not 'open enough' for developers, then it will be replaced by something that is. Nov 11 18:49:40 look at the effects of it down the road. you think these tradionally very closed companies are going to allthe sudden be open? Nov 11 18:50:10 ljp: look at data centers. linux used to be a hobbist OS Nov 11 18:50:28 the apache license explicitly allows them to be business as usual Nov 11 18:51:51 i agree phone platforms are stifled by how closed off the software is. mostly from pressure by the carriers i think. Nov 11 18:52:10 isnt t-mobile all excited about android? Nov 11 18:52:11 and how is this going to change? Nov 11 18:52:45 with a platform that runs linux and is fundamentally hackable Nov 11 18:53:01 yes, they are, because they can get something fro free without having to contribute back Nov 11 18:53:17 most open source users are like that. Nov 11 18:53:43 noone i know who runs ubuntu has contributed to ubuntu software development, including myself. Nov 11 18:53:47 but they have the same rights to the code Nov 11 18:54:30 though i have contributed to other open source software, and i intend to write software for android if it has interesting phone hardware. Nov 11 18:55:38 are you intending it to be free? or are you going to close the source? Nov 11 18:55:45 I'd have to agree with ljp.. Nov 11 18:55:59 i would licence it under the licence that android uses Nov 11 18:56:28 the same argument could be made for apache - dont write a web server, big companies will use it for free! Nov 11 18:57:09 the difference is cell phone companies wont even consider opening their stuff Nov 11 18:57:15 apache is different than a phone Nov 11 18:57:32 they'll just use android and overlay their propriatory stuff... Nov 11 18:58:37 aso it'll be down to porting stuff like gsmd etc or parts of qtopia etc Nov 11 18:58:47 if we want an open device. Nov 11 18:59:39 that then begs the question, what are google giving that we don;t already have... Nov 11 19:00:03 .. I guess we have to wait until tomorrow for that one :) Nov 11 19:00:08 http://www.brucemacvarish.com/2007/03/google_phone_th.html Nov 11 19:00:14 tried to google it? Nov 11 19:00:25 http://www.satine.org/archives/2007/03/05/the-skia-source-code-dilemma/ Nov 11 19:01:07 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/16/google_phone_confirmed/ Nov 11 19:04:33 but there is no google phone Nov 11 19:05:51 maybe no hardware yet Nov 11 19:05:54 the hardware that is inspired by android may be the biggest contribution. Nov 11 19:06:08 i'll reflash it to something that fits my needs. Nov 11 19:06:12 I think it's just intelligent marketing.... Nov 11 19:06:36 imagine eveyone talking about their google phones, when google don't actually sell them Nov 11 19:06:49 don-o: _if_ you can reflash it Nov 11 19:06:59 yeah... Nov 11 19:07:09 * ScaredyCat points at tivo and fon Nov 11 19:09:58 reflashing fon is well-known Nov 11 19:10:10 i havent used a tivo before Nov 11 19:12:18 reflashing fon involves dropping back a version for the standard fon - new ones require signing. Nov 11 19:12:50 the first version of tivo isn't half as bad ans any of it;s successors, in temrs of locking down Nov 11 20:11:35 hi, how many minutes remaining ? ;) Nov 11 20:16:13 GOOGLE ANDROID Nov 11 20:39:23 . Nov 11 21:04:16 morning Nov 11 21:06:58 So, it's already Nov 12th (7:30am) here. But no SDK :-( Nov 11 21:07:23 (the Google guys here already told me it would be Mountain View timezone for the release ) Nov 11 21:10:03 lol Nov 11 21:10:33 what time is 'Mountain Dew' time? Nov 11 21:10:38 View Nov 11 21:10:51 gmt - ? Nov 11 21:15:22 GMT - 8 Nov 11 21:20:36 + Nov 11 21:21:54 anytime woudl be Mountain Dew time Nov 11 21:28:34 kristian-m: gmt-8 I think - I'm gmt+10:30, gmt+8 is western australia Nov 11 21:47:21 rwhitby ah, right, to wait 8 h longer means -8 - got that wrong Nov 11 21:47:56 rwhitby NZ? - north or south island? Nov 11 21:48:23 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=1241 Nov 11 21:48:41 adelaide, dst Nov 11 21:49:21 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=5 Nov 11 21:50:33 there I was thinking I'd already said gmt -8 .... ;) Nov 11 22:00:59 http://www.androidcommunity.com Nov 11 22:14:10 WOW Nov 11 22:43:51 proct0r: is that an official site, or someone looking to get rich from adsense views in the future? Nov 11 22:46:54 Hmm - no response from http://www.r3media.com, the registered owners of that domain. Nov 11 22:48:49 I wonder if they have permission to use the Android logo? From the TOS page on android.com: "9.2 Unless you have agreed otherwise in writing with Google, nothing in the Terms gives you a right to use any of Google's trade names, trade marks, service marks, logos, domain names, and other distinctive brand features." Nov 11 23:04:50 Aha, r3media.net says "R3 Media Inc. has assembled a talented and experienced team who possess extensive knowledge of the online advertising market." Nov 12 00:00:23 ok its the 12th - where's the beef Nov 12 00:03:39 remember, the world revolves around US timezones Nov 12 00:04:56 Writchie|laptop: we've been told the announcement is on Mountain View time Nov 12 00:06:06 i though this project was out of London Nov 12 00:06:31 not afaik Nov 12 00:06:32 what made you think that? Nov 12 00:06:48 that's where all their phone developers are Nov 12 00:06:49 London does mobile development Nov 12 01:45:56 rwhitby: no idea but i'm a supermod Nov 12 01:46:07 and we need more participation :P Nov 12 01:46:35 proct0r: I just like to know who is behind a community forum before I consider joining it. Nov 12 01:46:46 slashgear.com Nov 12 01:47:29 There was a case in the nslu2-linux project where some cracker set up an "unofficial" forum specifically to harvest passwords from people, hoping they use the same username and password everywhere. Nov 12 01:48:39 And I also like to know the project leader's opinion of a forum before joining it too. In this case, I'd be looking for word from the google developer advocates in the channel as to what the preferred community gathering place is to be. Nov 12 01:49:21 akward Nov 12 01:50:19 i.e. I don't join a forum for a project just cause someone was first to register a related domain name and install some forum software ... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 12 02:59:56 2007