**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 14 02:59:57 2007
Nov 14 03:01:19 <tlockney> BigCanOfTuna: check out clickatell, I've heard decent things about them
Nov 14 03:03:58 <xota> hi!
Nov 14 03:04:16 <xota> I'm trying to emulate android over gutsy with amd64. I have a exception
Nov 14 03:04:18 <xota> anybody can help me?
Nov 14 03:05:11 <d03boy> details
Nov 14 03:05:24 <xota> d03boy, a paste of the output?
Nov 14 03:05:32 <d03boy> pastebin.ca
Nov 14 03:07:00 <xota> d03boy, http://pastebin.com/d67ec1247
Nov 14 03:08:54 <tlockney> xota: you just need to run the emulator binary under the tools dir
Nov 14 03:09:03 <xota> tlockney, go see
Nov 14 03:09:04 <tlockney> ie., ./tools/emulator
Nov 14 03:09:24 <xota> oh yes!
Nov 14 03:09:30 <xota> thx tlockney!!! ;)
Nov 14 03:09:32 <tlockney> right, I saw your paste, but you're trying to run the android.jar, that's not what you need
Nov 14 03:09:55 <tlockney> xota: np
Nov 14 03:10:17 <xota> I've received a "beca" (economic help to development while I'm studying)
Nov 14 03:10:51 <d03boy> i do that too
Nov 14 03:11:25 <xota> and need to do a map of a building with route calc's
Nov 14 03:11:38 <xota> do u think that is a good idea use android sdk?
Nov 14 03:12:02 <Dralspire> Well, what else would you use?
Nov 14 03:12:03 <tlockney> is it something that needs to be run on a mobile phone anytime soon?
Nov 14 03:12:27 <d03boy> is it a concept or real?
Nov 14 03:12:29 <tlockney> or would it just be a proof-of-concept type thing?
Nov 14 03:12:37 <tlockney> d03boy: jinx!
Nov 14 03:12:54 <xota> is real
Nov 14 03:13:00 <xota> and only on a mobile platform
Nov 14 03:13:28 <xota> (at the moment, perhaps on the future a web aplication or in a university information point)
Nov 14 03:13:44 <xota> UIP uses web application too
Nov 14 03:13:58 <tlockney> it should be possible, I would think
Nov 14 03:14:02 <xota> I need to calc's rutes and
Nov 14 03:14:20 <xota> see interest point
Nov 14 03:14:51 <xota> perhaps, If i go in the university and need to do some administrative task
Nov 14 03:14:57 <xota> I need to go to secretary
Nov 14 03:15:02 <tlockney> of course, you won't be able to run it on a real mobile for probably close to a year or so
Nov 14 03:15:05 <xota> (for example)
Nov 14 03:15:22 <tlockney> at least ~8 months, anyway
Nov 14 03:15:35 <xota> so, If I don't know that this task don't be done on secretary
Nov 14 03:15:37 <xota> no problem
Nov 14 03:15:49 <xota> because I find a rute to go from my actual point
Nov 14 03:15:59 <xota> to the point where I can do my task
Nov 14 03:16:01 <xota> do u understand?
Nov 14 03:16:07 <d03boy> sure.....
Nov 14 03:16:09 <xota> my english isn't too good
Nov 14 03:16:10 <d03boy> waypoints
Nov 14 03:16:18 <tlockney> well, as for the algorithms and such, that's a different issue...
Nov 14 03:17:02 <xota> tlockney, no problem for the time, If I can emulate it at the moment, and implement it on next year (2008/2009)
Nov 14 03:17:39 <tlockney> xota: that's good. it'll give you time to perfect it, right? ;~)
Nov 14 03:17:53 <xota> so, the google contest is over a emulator?
Nov 14 03:18:07 <d03boy> for teh time being
Nov 14 03:18:08 <tlockney> xota: at least the first phase is
Nov 14 03:18:16 <tlockney> there are 2 phases to the contest
Nov 14 03:18:39 <tlockney> first phase is 50 $25000 awards, but the second phase should take place after phones start coming out
Nov 14 03:18:56 <xota> ok, any way, I go to try the emulator, and see how can do widgets to it
Nov 14 03:19:25 <xota> it's a beatifull system ;D
Nov 14 03:19:27 <xota> fuck iphone
Nov 14 03:19:40 <tlockney> xota: I would spend a good bit of time with the docs they've provided. there's a lot of good stuff in there and the tutorials are helpful
Nov 14 03:20:33 <tlockney> I'm curious if anyone has gotten an arm toolchain up yet and tried creating native apps? anyone in here, I mean...
Nov 14 03:20:39 <xota> yes, I see it
Nov 14 03:20:51 <xota> I think that It can be a good SDK
Nov 14 03:21:18 <tlockney> I'm definitely excited about it... it's already keeping me from getting my actual work done ;)
Nov 14 03:22:20 <xota> tlockney, perhaps u need to finished ur actual work, and then waste ur time on google SDK ;D
Nov 14 03:22:34 <parti> do you guys have xp with j2me?
Nov 14 03:22:51 <tlockney> xota: then I would miss out on all the fun!
Nov 14 03:23:22 <tlockney> xota: the "actual" work is never done... :(
Nov 14 03:24:29 <xota> tlockney, u need to use gnome planner ;D
Nov 14 03:25:18 <xota> and try to find a balance over ur tasks ;)
Nov 14 03:25:26 <xota> It's time to waste on anything
Nov 14 03:25:31 <tlockney> xota: the problem is my boss needs to use a better planner... and then get realistic about assignments ;~)
Nov 14 03:25:38 <xota> only be a question of a good planification lol
Nov 14 03:26:10 <xota> well... I'm on Spain, now It's 4:25am so, I need go to sleep
Nov 14 03:26:15 <xota> nice to meet u
Nov 14 03:26:25 <xota> and thanks for all
Nov 14 03:26:32 <tlockney> heh. g'night, xota!
Nov 14 04:30:05 <bengl> knock knock?
Nov 14 04:30:47 <e1f> hm?
Nov 14 04:33:26 <bengl> is there a list of API parts that are mandatory and those that aren't?
Nov 14 04:37:21 <tlockney> bengl: no direct list I've seen, but you can dig it out from here: http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/optional-apis.html
Nov 14 04:37:37 <bengl> thx
Nov 14 04:37:38 <tlockney> at least, I would assume anything not referenced there is mandatory
Nov 14 04:38:17 <bengl> what i'm wondering about is Runtime.exec()
Nov 14 04:38:47 <tlockney> ah, good question
Nov 14 04:39:35 <bengl> i'd like to whip up a console (by calling up /system/bin/sh), but if i can't called exec() on your run-of-the-mill impmlementation, then i don't see any point bothering
Nov 14 04:39:36 <tlockney> doesn't look like it's in the optional list, so I'd assume it's there
Nov 14 04:40:28 <bengl> http://code.google.com/android/reference/java/lang/Runtime.html
Nov 14 04:40:32 <tlockney> are you specifically wanting a java based console?
Nov 14 04:40:36 <tlockney> yeah, was about to send you that
Nov 14 04:40:41 <bengl> "This class, with the exception of the exec() APIs, must be implemented by the  VM vendor."
Nov 14 04:40:53 <tlockney> heh, just read the same
Nov 14 04:40:55 <bengl> that's not very friendly to me
Nov 14 04:41:33 <tlockney> huh, might be worth checking that Harmony class referenced
Nov 14 04:42:43 <bengl> which doesn't show up here http://code.google.com/android/reference/packages.html
Nov 14 04:42:53 <tlockney> yeah, strange...
Nov 14 04:43:13 <tlockney> I haven't explored the classes provide much yet
Nov 14 04:43:32 <tlockney> might be worth asking on the mailing list... and cross your fingers that someone answers ;~)
Nov 14 04:44:04 <bengl> yeah, um, that mailing list looks like a 5th grade classroom
Nov 14 04:44:14 <tlockney> no comment
Nov 14 04:44:39 <tlockney> (I was making a similar point earlier today)
Nov 14 04:44:48 <tlockney> (guess that's a comment, eh?)
Nov 14 04:44:57 <bengl> yeah
Nov 14 04:45:01 <d03boy> (yes)
Nov 14 04:46:22 <bengl> i think i'm gonna take a look at how hard it would be to port Rhino
Nov 14 04:46:22 <parti> i almost wanna post something like this http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=499980&start=0&tstart=0
Nov 14 04:47:49 <tlockney> rhino would be wonderful to have
Nov 14 04:49:18 <bengl> yeah, all of a sudden we'd have a useable scripting language
Nov 14 04:49:46 <bengl> of course i've seen people talking here about jython, etc.
Nov 14 04:53:01 <tlockney> jython would probably work well, too, but rhino would be my preferred choice
Nov 14 04:58:14 <bengl> i wonder if anyone has done jython or rhino on android already?
Nov 14 05:28:04 <d03boy> anyone use code profilers with eclipse? any free suggestions?
Nov 14 05:52:55 * jasonchen is wondering what other developers are doing w/ the SDK
Nov 14 05:54:19 <mypapit> jasonchen, hacking around?
Nov 14 05:54:38 <jasonchen> mypapid: right on; doing anything interesting?
Nov 14 05:55:01 <jasonchen> err, mypapit :-)
Nov 14 05:56:48 <mypapit> jasonchen, just back from lunch, i'm figuring out to work more stuff with android
Nov 14 05:57:26 <mypapit> jasonchen, i hope htc would release a runtime for its previous product.. i'm a htc user
Nov 14 05:59:47 <jasonchen> mypapit: cool.  i'm glad to hear that you're getting familiar with the SDK
Nov 14 06:01:12 <mypapit> hope the actual product appearance doesnt look as lame as some j2me implementations
Nov 14 06:02:45 <jasonchen> mypapit: what do you mean, exactly?
Nov 14 06:04:33 <mypapit> jasonchen, different implementation trying too hard to look like exactly the same application, making the application looks lame compared to native app
Nov 14 06:04:55 <bengl> my java's far out of practice, string concatenation is +, right?
Nov 14 06:05:07 <mypapit> bengl, yes
Nov 14 06:05:10 <jasonchen> bengl: yes
Nov 14 06:05:23 <bengl> thx
Nov 14 06:06:07 <rwhitby> jasonchen: I'm trying to get eclipse to use the CodeSourcery EABI win32 compilers to produce native C executables that will run on the Android platform.
Nov 14 06:06:28 <jasonchen> rwhitby: you're industrious :-)
Nov 14 06:06:54 <rwhitby> well, I need to work out how to do that for another platform anyway, so I might was well use Android as a test case :-)
Nov 14 06:07:10 <telexicon> wouldnt gcj work better?
Nov 14 06:07:20 <rwhitby> jasonchen: you've seen the busybox compilation that Ben did?
Nov 14 06:07:58 <jasonchen> rwhitby: feel free to play around and see if you can get it running, but there's no official support in the framework accessing your own native libraries, yet
Nov 14 06:08:15 <jasonchen> rwhitby: yes, i think i caught that thread
Nov 14 06:08:57 <rwhitby> jasonchen: I'm keeping a blog entry up to date with the native efforts at http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/category/android
Nov 14 06:09:18 <rwhitby> jasonchen: and yes, we all understand that native is not supported.
Nov 14 06:10:06 <rwhitby> jasonchen: Is my assumption that any native code would need to be via Java JNI, so it didn't break out of the security, backstack, and memory management framework a correct assumption?
Nov 14 06:10:22 <jasonchen> rwhitby: yep, that's correct
Nov 14 06:10:41 <rwhitby> can I quote you on that ;-
Nov 14 06:10:52 <rwhitby> )
Nov 14 06:11:10 <rwhitby> (just kidding, we all know anything said on IRC is off the record)
Nov 14 06:11:37 <mypapit> hehe
Nov 14 06:11:52 <jasonchen> rwhitby: let me just say that it would be reasonable to assume that the Quake demo wasn't done by porting it all to Java
Nov 14 06:12:02 <jasonchen> :-)
Nov 14 06:12:32 <rwhitby> jasonchen: was the security aspects (and being able to explain them to executives) a significant factor in choosing java, or where there other technical aspects which overshadowed the obvious security benefits?
Nov 14 06:13:41 <peteryang> hello, what kinds of program language android support?
Nov 14 06:13:47 <peteryang> c, c++ or java
Nov 14 06:13:59 <mypapit> peteryang, java
Nov 14 06:14:22 <mypapit> primarily
Nov 14 06:14:28 <bengl> rwhitby: seeing as you're working a bit with the android console, have you tried Runtime.exec()?
Nov 14 06:14:32 <peteryang> i use java do server side stuff. and also some j2me for mobile. But does java really works on mobile?
Nov 14 06:15:55 <jasonchen> rwhitby: well, there are reasons for having android apps written using the Java language that go beyond the security.  for example, Dalvik let's you as an app developer not have to worry about what kind of chip is running on the phone
Nov 14 06:16:27 <rwhitby> jasonchen: sure, there's the portability aspect.
Nov 14 06:16:58 <rwhitby> jasonchen: were there any "Java is too slow, it must be done in C/C++" advocates inside the Android group, or was everyone already a convert?
Nov 14 06:17:08 <telexicon> peteryang, yes it does
Nov 14 06:17:13 <rwhitby> (for applications, that is, not for the core libraries)
Nov 14 06:17:34 <peteryang> any google engineers around in this chat room?
Nov 14 06:17:46 <telexicon> there were
Nov 14 06:18:11 <d03boy> we've got jasonchen up in hizzle
Nov 14 06:18:37 <peteryang> who is from google android team?
Nov 14 06:18:38 <peteryang> :-)
Nov 14 06:19:11 <jasonchen> rwhitby: there's people w/ lots of different language biases on the team, but i think we all recognize that there's a tremendous number of mobile developers who are familiar with the Java language
Nov 14 06:19:57 <jasonchen> rhwhitby: so technical reasons aside, we all recognized that that community would be a tremendous target developer market
Nov 14 06:19:57 <peteryang> languge is not a matter. business success is more important.
Nov 14 06:20:09 <mypapit> agreed :)
Nov 14 06:20:26 <jasonchen> peteryang: as d03boy mention, i'm a developer advocate from google
Nov 14 06:20:54 <peteryang> jasonchen , are you from android team of google? nice to meet you. i am new
Nov 14 06:20:58 <rwhitby> jasonchen: are you guys kicking yourselfs that you didn't start two lists - one for general discussion and one for bonafide developers, or are you happy to have it all in one list and just use google to search it ;-)
Nov 14 06:21:20 <jasonchen> rwhitby: you're just full of questions tonight.  :-)
Nov 14 06:21:25 <rwhitby> it's a real firehose of low S/N ratio at the moment :-)
Nov 14 06:21:34 <d03boy> we'll call it... an interview :)
Nov 14 06:21:42 <jasonchen> rwhitby: we were just talking about that this afternoon and look for us to do a few things to increase the S/N in the coming days
Nov 14 06:22:08 <jasonchen> peteryang: welcome, peter
Nov 14 06:22:12 <rwhitby> jasonchen: I understand that if you don't answer any, then it's something you can't answer.  While you keep answering, I'll keep asking :-)
Nov 14 06:22:48 <jasonchen> rwhitby: good.  i hope we can maintain that understanding w/ everyone here.
Nov 14 06:22:58 <rwhitby> Since I run a big open source project myself (nslu2-linux.org), I'm interested in not only the technical aspects of Android, but also the open source project dynamics, and how Google is handling those.
Nov 14 06:23:41 <rwhitby> e.g. the "let's keep it civil" posting from dsm(sp?) earlier today was a good move.
Nov 14 06:24:26 <jasonchen> thanks.  we're trying to keep things free flowing and not be too over-bearing
Nov 14 06:24:49 <telexicon> please dont allow the use of C/C++
Nov 14 06:25:19 <jasonchen> rwhitby: so i'm glad that went over well
Nov 14 06:25:58 <peteryang> can complex app run on android?
Nov 14 06:26:04 <rwhitby> jasonchen: in my eyes it was the right tone and timing.
Nov 14 06:26:12 <jasonchen> peteryang: what's your definition of complex :-)
Nov 14 06:26:28 * jasonchen thinks that peteryang hasn't seen our demo videos
Nov 14 06:26:30 <peteryang> in other words, does android support multiple thread, concurrent running multiple apps ..
Nov 14 06:26:44 <peteryang> yes, i am searching demo
Nov 14 06:26:45 <telexicon> peteryang, its got the linux!
Nov 14 06:26:46 <peteryang> any link?
Nov 14 06:26:55 <jasonchen> peteryang: http://code.google.com/android/
Nov 14 06:27:04 <jasonchen> peteryang: you can start digging in there
Nov 14 06:27:08 <rwhitby> peteryang: debug a sample application on the emulator using the eclipse integration, and you will see lots of processes and threads :-)
Nov 14 06:27:32 <peteryang> which one is the most complex demo?
Nov 14 06:27:40 <rwhitby> and the video demo with the burning applications (2 of 3 I think) is a good explanation.
Nov 14 06:28:07 * rwhitby loved the way that those reclaimed processes just burned away on that video.
Nov 14 06:28:17 <peteryang> i cannot find the vedio demo
Nov 14 06:28:18 <jasonchen> peteryang: also, this page provides an overview of the Android platform - http://code.google.com/android/what-is-android.html
Nov 14 06:28:22 <peteryang> pls post eh lnk
Nov 14 06:28:37 <jasonchen> http://youtube.com/android
Nov 14 06:30:43 <rwhitby> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITfRuRkf2TM is the application burning one
Nov 14 06:30:48 <edcba> YouTube - Androidology - Part 2 of 3 - Application Lifecycle
Nov 14 06:31:44 <tlockney> jasonchen: I find it rather interesting that the sdk actually gives you the tools to load native apps, not exactly trying to prevent them ;~)
Nov 14 06:32:47 <tlockney> rwhitby: I tried building an example using Ben's approach and it wouldn't run. haven't figured out why, yet
Nov 14 06:33:09 <tlockney> rwhitby: I'll be curious if you have better luck
Nov 14 06:34:14 <bengl> how would i show a stack trace on the emulator screen?
Nov 14 06:35:01 <eno> tlockney: if you do a "file busybox", you'll notice Ben's binary is statically linked
Nov 14 06:35:22 <rwhitby> eno: have you run the busybox you built?
Nov 14 06:35:34 <eno> android is using their own libc
Nov 14 06:35:36 <tlockney> eno: I've got his busybox build working
Nov 14 06:35:50 <tlockney> I'll check it out
Nov 14 06:35:58 <jasonchen> bengl: you can get the full exception via adb logcat
Nov 14 06:36:13 <eno> i've built statically linked busybox this morning and it runs fine
Nov 14 06:37:03 <tlockney> I just tried building a simple hello world app like he described here (http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/13/android-native-apps) and it wouldn't run
Nov 14 06:37:08 <eno> tlockney: you'll need to use "-static" during link
Nov 14 06:37:21 <tlockney> yeah, I'm going to give that a shot now
Nov 14 06:37:28 <tlockney> shoudl have been obvious
Nov 14 06:38:21 <eno> the easiest way to build busybox, is to use nslu2-linux optware cs07q3armel-target
Nov 14 06:38:56 <bengl> jasonchen: interesting, thx
Nov 14 06:39:02 <tlockney> eno: woohoo! success!
Nov 14 06:39:51 <tlockney> eno: that would have driven me crazy... I'm out of practice and then some with C... time to reread K&R, I guess ;~)
Nov 14 06:39:54 <peteryang> i cannot find any API related to phone native functions. like phone call, sms, contact/addressbook etc...
Nov 14 06:40:19 <rwhitby> eno: do we have an optware target that static links by default now?
Nov 14 06:40:34 <jasonchen> peteryang: http://code.google.com/android/reference/packages.html
Nov 14 06:41:04 <rwhitby> eno: anything stopping us doing an android feed for optware?
Nov 14 06:41:27 <peteryang> thanks..
Nov 14 06:41:33 <tlockney> now to dig up the native graphics apis... ha
Nov 14 06:41:43 <jasonchen> peteryang: in particular, http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/package-summary.html and http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/package-summary.html
Nov 14 06:41:44 <eno> static link won't get us very far, it can build hello, it can build busybox
Nov 14 06:42:06 <eno> but most package depends on dynamic link
Nov 14 06:42:30 <tlockney> eno: yeah, that hello binary was 568k. ouch!
Nov 14 06:43:16 <rwhitby> eno: can we load up our own libc instead of dynamic linking against the stock lib?
Nov 14 06:43:32 <peteryang> all these api are compulsary? Sun Microsystem make lots of j2me api optiional, it makes lots of compatibility issues
Nov 14 06:44:20 <eno> rwhitby: that should be possible, but i'm not sure how useful it is without interacting with dalvikvm
Nov 14 06:44:40 <rwhitby> eno: sshd?
Nov 14 06:45:20 <rwhitby> then lighttpd running as root, serving up the onboard files ...
Nov 14 06:45:51 <peteryang> what is the version of the jvm?
Nov 14 06:46:09 <bengl> how can i launch apps from the console? (./emulator -console)
Nov 14 06:46:41 <eno> yeah, sshd is nice
Nov 14 06:46:43 <rwhitby> peteryang: since it's a custom jvm (dalvik), does the version really matter?
Nov 14 06:47:03 <peteryang> version is not matter. just get some idea about the capability of the jvm
Nov 14 06:47:14 <rwhitby> eno: we should be able to do a static dropbearmulti.
Nov 14 06:47:39 <eno> any document on dalvik JNI API?
Nov 14 06:48:49 <rwhitby> jasonchen: is the dalvik JNI API standard or custom?
Nov 14 06:49:36 <jasonchen> rwhitby: sorry, i can't comment on that
Nov 14 06:49:50 <rwhitby> jasonchen: np, understood.
Nov 14 06:50:44 <rwhitby> jasonchen: any chance of JNI details this year, or should be plug on with the native compiling?
Nov 14 06:50:44 <jasta> I have a few basic View and Layout questions if someone has a moment.  Specifically, how do I set RelativeLayout attributes without defining them in XML?
Nov 14 06:50:53 <rwhitby> s/be/we/
Nov 14 06:51:07 <jasta> I saw the constants, but I could not see how to apply them to the interface anywhere.
Nov 14 06:52:31 <jasta> Has anyone worked with this before?
Nov 14 06:53:25 <jasta> Or, alternatively, it would satisfy my requirements to simply see List4.java (the API demo sample) done using XML views.  I am trying to switch that to using a more advanced RelativeLayout, and am running into trouble working with the programmatic method on that class.
Nov 14 06:54:04 <jasta> List4.java has a comment that it could have been done with XML, but so far the only thing I have seen is the setContentView() method, which cannot be applied in this context.
Nov 14 06:54:17 <jasta> I must be missing something simple, I hope someone can help :\
Nov 14 06:54:27 <jasonchen> rwhitby: i can't really say much more about native code and 3rd party apps other than that the team knows you all are _very_ interested in it
Nov 14 06:54:38 <rwhitby> ok, thx
Nov 14 06:57:23 <jasta> Hmm, has no one looked at this yet? :)
Nov 14 06:58:15 <peteryang> the most advantage of android(compare to j2me) is that you can access sim identity. the challenge is that how to avoid the problem encounted by j2me(compatibility issue)
Nov 14 06:58:31 <jasonchen> jasta: worked w/ Android?  i have.
Nov 14 06:58:40 <jasonchen> jasta: but then again, i've had a headstart :-)
Nov 14 06:58:51 <jasta> jasonchen: Do you know anything about the problem I mentioned above?
Nov 14 06:59:20 <jasta> I'm trying to develop a hello world (silly little File Manager to explore the filesystem in the GUI), but the RelativeLayout I want is giving me grief.
Nov 14 06:59:58 <jasonchen> jasta: are you getting an exception or is it just not laying out the way you want?
Nov 14 07:00:17 <jasta> jasonchen: Well, I can't even figure a way to express what I want, so nothing runtime at all yet.
Nov 14 07:00:41 * jasonchen is looking back at the List4.java example to see what jasta's referring to
Nov 14 07:00:44 <jasta> Specifically, the RelativeLayout class does not seem to offer a programmatic alternative to the full range of features exposed by the XML layout constructs.
Nov 14 07:01:04 <jasta> That is, the XML attributes have no programmatic counterparts that I can see how to use.
Nov 14 07:03:17 <jasta> An alternative strategy to what I would is to simply use the XML resource method, but I can't see how to do that either being that my situation is more complex than simply calling setContentView from an Activity.  List4.java mentions that this should be possible, but of course doesn't show me how :)
Nov 14 07:03:37 <jasta> line 374 mentions this, btw.
Nov 14 07:04:48 <jasonchen> jasta: have you taken a look at http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/widget/RelativeLayout.LayoutParams.html ?
Nov 14 07:05:33 <jasta> Yes, scoured all around that area as well.  I do not see how to apply the XML attributes without using the XML resource approach.
Nov 14 07:06:18 <jasta> the constructor with AttributeSet attrs doesn't seem like the right place to go.
Nov 14 07:07:05 <jasta> But, again, I am fine using the XML resource approach, but I also do not know how to apply that approach in this case either.  I've hit a dead-end for sure.
Nov 14 07:07:24 <jasonchen> hmmm, i think i need to see some code to get context on what you're trying to do
Nov 14 07:07:57 <jasta> jasonchen: It's simple really, I might be communicating this poorly.  Go to, line 374 or so.
Nov 14 07:08:07 <jasta> There is a comment that says "They could also have been specified in an XML file".
Nov 14 07:08:31 <jasta> ...but how? :)
Nov 14 07:08:55 <ledil> moin
Nov 14 07:09:51 <jasta> I can imagine how I can express the view I am after with the XML resource, but I cannot imagine how to apply it in this case (a specialized view used by a custom adapter class).
Nov 14 07:12:06 <jasta> Imagine a list that each element would have two left-aligned labels and one right-hanging one.  I am trying to implement that layout.  My thought was to use something similar to List4.java, but to modify SpeechView (in this example) to extend RelativeLayout, instead of LinearLayout.
Nov 14 07:12:23 <jasta> But RelativeLayout's special attributes seem to be offered only by the XML approach.
Nov 14 07:12:33 <jasta> And the XML approach doesn't seem applicable in this case, despite what List4.java suggests.
Nov 14 07:13:53 <jasta> Am I making sense at all? :)
Nov 14 07:15:33 <jasonchen> yes, you're making sense
Nov 14 07:15:47 <jasonchen> and i could swear that we have an example that speaks to this
Nov 14 07:16:34 <jasta> I searched very hard before coming here.  I at least could not find it...
Nov 14 07:17:45 <jasta> Now, if there was a way to access a View object at run-time using the XML resource, I think I could solve this quickly.
Nov 14 07:18:16 <jasta> I would extend a basic layout and then just request the RelativeLayout all rolled up how I want it as a View to add using addView().  Then I'd access the individual text items and setText() as I need.
Nov 14 07:19:28 <yashi> is anyone summarizing the irc log? I'm interested in running SDK binaries on a real cpu.  has anyone done that?
Nov 14 07:20:03 <yashi> a list of kernel module requirements would be nice to have
Nov 14 07:21:13 <jasonchen> jasta: so, the constants that you see defined in the LayoutParams inner class (i.e. what you could use via XML) are also constants defined in RelativeLayout
Nov 14 07:21:50 <jasta> Yes, I saw the constants I was looking for.  I just could not see a sufficient interface to apply them meaningfully.
Nov 14 07:22:01 <jasta> At least nothing that seemed to be an analogy to the XML resource.
Nov 14 07:30:16 <jasta> jasonchen: Is this a legitimate problem with the SDK or documentation you think?
Nov 14 07:30:44 * jasonchen thinks is this is simply a problem of jasonchen's head not working this late in the day
Nov 14 07:31:06 <jasonchen> it's something obvious that i'm just overlooking at the moment
Nov 14 07:31:38 <jasta> That's how I am feeling too, but only because I am confident that such an omission could not be possible in the SDK...
Nov 14 07:39:23 <jasta> jasonchen: still nothing?
Nov 14 07:39:53 <jasta> I wish there was a way to return a View from an XML resource.  That would happily allow me to ignore this problem.
Nov 14 07:42:26 <jasonchen> jasta: you mean programmatically reference a View that you've defined in XML?
Nov 14 07:42:38 <jasta> Yes.
Nov 14 07:43:18 <jasta> Then I could just define the RelativeLayout in XML, and use addView to add the one I retrieved.  That way I could just set the XML attributes in the XML resource.
Nov 14 07:44:34 <jasonchen> right, so i think i'm grokking what you're trying to do
Nov 14 07:44:39 <jasonchen> and here's how you'd do that
Nov 14 07:45:14 <jasta> But still, if Google claims that the XML resource is an optional way to do things, it should actually be optional :)
Nov 14 07:45:43 <jasonchen> define the RelativeLayout that you want via XML in the res/layout folder (e.g. my_layout.xml)
Nov 14 07:46:24 <jasonchen> then in your Activity, you want to make a call to setContentView() and pass R.layout.my_layout -- for example.
Nov 14 07:47:13 <jasonchen> jasta: yes, the doc need to be fleshed out on how to do programmatic construction of UI's
Nov 14 07:47:33 <jasonchen> jasta: but you can see what method we _prefer_ to use in our own practice/construction
Nov 14 07:48:03 <jasta> jasonchen: I don't believe that will work.  Remember, my Activity uses a custom ListAdapter, and that custom ListAdapter uses in turn another custom view that provides the row layout I want.
Nov 14 07:48:47 <jasta> jasonchen: setContentView, therefore, is not sufficiently generalized.  I would need a way to actually return the View (without actually applying it anywhere yet).
Nov 14 07:49:23 <jasta> that was my earlier point about List4.java claiming the XML approach was possible.  I don't believe it is possible.
Nov 14 07:49:39 <jasta> Or at least the documentation is not helping me figure out how :)
Nov 14 07:50:03 <jasonchen> jasta: let me look into this tomorrow morning when i get into the office
Nov 14 07:50:15 <jasta> Sure, I didn't mean to hound you :)
Nov 14 07:50:48 <jasta> Should I just come back tomorrow?  Or should we move this to an e-mail or Google Groups thread?
Nov 14 07:52:37 <jasonchen> we'll follow up via email
Nov 14 08:16:08 <cutmasta> good morning
Nov 14 08:22:13 <[AD]Turbo> hi there
Nov 14 08:22:28 <Lede> good morning
Nov 14 09:43:04 <guardian> morning
Nov 14 09:48:46 <rustre> hello people
Nov 14 09:48:49 <Lede> good morning
Nov 14 09:49:20 <rustre> are there any guys from the Android project here? I mean, if I see a bogus in the documentation, should I spit it out loud here?
Nov 14 09:57:31 <xat> hi
Nov 14 10:04:08 <soulreaper> rustre: there are some people here but i don't know if they are around
Nov 14 10:04:48 <rustre> soulreaper: shall I spit it out there then?
Nov 14 10:05:09 <rustre> it's no big deal, just a "tip note" in the doc which isn't displayed in the correct "section"
Nov 14 10:05:15 <soulreaper> rustre: don't know. i guess the best place to do so is the mailinglist
Nov 14 10:07:01 <rustre> soulreaper: yeah, sure, I guess i'll drop a mail then ;)
Nov 14 10:07:08 <soulreaper> :)
Nov 14 10:09:32 <Lede> there is a mailinglist?
Nov 14 10:09:52 <Lede> or did you mean the newsgroup?
Nov 14 10:09:59 <rustre> Lede: well, the newsgroup i believe
Nov 14 10:10:12 <Lede> ok
Nov 14 10:10:27 <soulreaper> yeah
Nov 14 10:15:39 <CM> Why don't they have a proper bugzilla?
Nov 14 10:16:09 <CM> Where you can add bugs to the documentation or emulator or libs and so on
Nov 14 10:18:10 <Lede> fill in a feature request, oh wait!
Nov 14 10:18:18 <Lede> paradox :p
Nov 14 10:21:08 <Tomasu> there was a video I watched a little while ago where some dude was giving a simple app creation turorial, I can't seem to find it anymore..
Nov 14 10:22:20 <Lede> on youtube?
Nov 14 10:22:37 <Tomasu> right
Nov 14 10:23:00 <jeddy3> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6ObTqIiYfE
Nov 14 10:23:06 <edcba> YouTube - A first hand look at building an Android application
Nov 14 10:23:12 <Tomasu> thanks :)
Nov 14 10:23:50 <Lede> i was about to paste
Nov 14 10:24:20 <Lede> the strange thing is that it doesnt show up on this page http://youtube.com/user/androiddevelopers
Nov 14 10:24:58 <Lede> user page of that video that is
Nov 14 10:49:48 <cutmasta> the xml editor for layout files always shows me errors
Nov 14 10:50:06 <cutmasta> but there is no error :)
Nov 14 10:50:40 <rustre> cutmasta: same here, but I wouldn't worry too much about that, must be a bug in eclipse
Nov 14 10:50:48 <Lede> eclipse is a pain .)
Nov 14 10:50:54 <cutmasta> rustre, yes
Nov 14 10:51:07 <cutmasta> because i know xml and how to close tags and so on
Nov 14 10:51:13 <cutmasta> :)
Nov 14 10:51:53 <cutmasta> rustre, i currently try to build an app like http://code.google.com/android/devel/ui/xml.html
Nov 14 10:52:00 <cutmasta> simplest xml :)
Nov 14 10:53:08 <cutmasta> but eclipse xml editor does not like it
Nov 14 10:55:18 <cutmasta> Error: Integer types not allowed (at 'padding' with value '10').	
Nov 14 11:33:21 <yashi> does anyone know what "SGL", the 2D engine for android, is?
Nov 14 11:35:39 <vrodic> probably a misspelling of SDL :)
Nov 14 11:43:42 <SunboX> this one?
Nov 14 11:43:45 <SunboX> -> http://www.leweyg.com/download/SIRD/SGL.html
Nov 14 11:45:04 <SunboX> or this one? -> http://sgl.sourceforge.net/
Nov 14 11:58:53 <yashi> I don't think it's a type of SDL because we have libsgl.so in the SDK env.
Nov 14 12:03:59 <yashi> unfortunately, the lib is stripped but it seems to be writen in C++
Nov 14 13:37:52 <RicoJay> hello
Nov 14 13:53:52 <cutmasta> i got my app in the application menu
Nov 14 13:54:04 <cutmasta> does somebody know how to register it on the home screen?
Nov 14 13:54:10 <cutmasta> which must be added to manifest xml
Nov 14 13:54:12 <cutmasta> ?
Nov 14 13:54:22 <cutmasta> what must be added to manifest xml=
Nov 14 13:54:31 <jasonchen> custmasta: i'm just about reply to a thread on the mailing list about this
Nov 14 13:54:44 <cutmasta> jasonchen, ok, i`ll read it there
Nov 14 13:54:45 <cutmasta> thx
Nov 14 13:54:55 <jasonchen> but it's a known issue w/ ADT
Nov 14 13:55:07 <jasonchen> if you take a look, there's a blank line
Nov 14 13:55:41 <jasonchen> in the AndroidManifest.xml file
Nov 14 13:56:03 <cutmasta> ?
Nov 14 13:56:09 <jasonchen> you'll need to replace the blank line w/ <category android:value="android.intent.category.LAUNCHER" />
Nov 14 13:56:17 <cutmasta> <category android:value="android.intent.category.LAUNCHER" />
Nov 14 13:56:20 <cutmasta> i added it
Nov 14 13:56:30 <cutmasta> but i only see the app under the Applications folder
Nov 14 13:56:41 <Lede> same here
Nov 14 13:56:50 <cutmasta> i want to see it next to the browser icon on the home screen
Nov 14 13:56:52 <cutmasta> :)
Nov 14 13:57:01 <jasonchen> oh, you're talking about the app launching menu on the home screen
Nov 14 13:57:19 <cutmasta> jasonchen, yes, sorry that i did not made this clear
Nov 14 13:57:28 <jasonchen> no worries
Nov 14 13:57:46 <jasonchen> hold on, let me dig up where that setting is controlled
Nov 14 13:58:05 <cutmasta> <category android:value="android.intent.category.HOME" /> ?
Nov 14 13:59:07 <cutmasta> ok, that did not the trick :)
Nov 14 13:59:26 <davidw> sheez...snowing again
Nov 14 14:01:53 <cutmasta> lol
Nov 14 14:02:11 <cutmasta> with .MAIN you can override the default home :)
Nov 14 14:02:13 <cutmasta> nice
Nov 14 14:02:38 <jasonchen> cutmasta: we weren't kidding when we said even the home screen is just another app :-)
Nov 14 14:03:03 <cutmasta> janole1, now i have " home" and "myapp" instead of the default home after booting
Nov 14 14:03:08 <cutmasta> jasonchen, , now i have " home" and "myapp" instead of the default home after booting
Nov 14 14:05:33 <jasonchen> cutmasta: hmmm, i don't think you can add your app to the home screen right now
Nov 14 14:06:09 <cutmasta> jasonchen, ok, good to know, so i dont have to waste time on it
Nov 14 14:09:38 <cutmasta> jasonchen, will future version of the dalvik vm support hot code replacement?
Nov 14 14:10:30 <jasonchen> cutmasta: i don't know, actually.  let me ask the VM team about that later today.
Nov 14 14:10:41 <cutmasta> ok thx
Nov 14 14:12:47 <Lede> jasonchen: there is this weird bug where icon's seem to mix up between different programs i made
Nov 14 14:13:03 <Lede> sometimes it shares the icon
Nov 14 14:13:34 <jasonchen> Lede: hmmm, that doesn't sound right
Nov 14 14:13:56 <Lede> like someone said earlier today, why is there no bugzilla?
Nov 14 14:15:57 <jasonchen> Lede: we're working on a solution for bug reports :-)
Nov 14 14:16:28 <jasonchen> Lede: but in the meantime, can you send an email to the list describing exactly how to replicate the problem?
Nov 14 14:16:49 <Lede> sure
Nov 14 14:16:55 <jasonchen> Lede: if you start the Subject: line with "Bug Report:" we'll pick it up quickly
Nov 14 14:16:58 <cutmasta> Lede, i know from own experiences how it take to make something opensource incl. all that stuff like bugzilla
Nov 14 14:19:10 <davidw> especially when you're a big company filled with really smart people - then you have to create your own system because the existing ones suck too much;-)
Nov 14 14:19:22 <Lede> heh
Nov 14 14:19:26 <cutmasta> :)
Nov 14 14:19:38 <sethibr> lol, lot of ppl on thus channel
Nov 14 14:19:52 <meteors> hi all
Nov 14 14:20:03 <meteors> The GPhone OS doesn't have OpenGL, does it?
Nov 14 14:20:25 <davidw> is 'lol' like the new greeting or something? lol everyone.  lol davidw
Nov 14 14:21:22 <xat> ;>
Nov 14 14:23:59 <javamaniac> lol @ lol
Nov 14 14:24:20 <Lede> meteors: according to the video there is opengl ES 2.0 support
Nov 14 14:24:44 <PwrKroll> Morning all in the CDT time zone!
Nov 14 14:24:53 <meteors> wow, interesting
Nov 14 14:24:54 <meteors> thanks
Nov 14 14:25:00 <Lede> it does software rendering when there is no hardware for it on a given device
Nov 14 14:25:14 <meteors> cool
Nov 14 14:25:51 <PwrKroll> Question: Would Android be able to be ported to the OpenMoko Neo1973?
Nov 14 14:28:11 <davidw> anyone know how to do logging, offhand?
Nov 14 14:28:26 <davidw> ConsoleHandler isn't doing anything
Nov 14 14:30:14 <davidw> this traceview thing looks cool, bt that's not what I want either
Nov 14 14:37:16 <davidw> android.util.Log is what I was looking for
Nov 14 14:56:51 <davidw> dammit... they ocassionally put salsa music in english on this shoutcast thing... that's bogus
Nov 14 15:04:18 <Kenny_> can i install android onto my pocket pc which has installed windows mobile at the moment?
Nov 14 15:06:35 <davidw> Kenny_, if you are a badass hacker, maybe
Nov 14 15:07:17 <Kenny_> so, android only comes with new smartphones?
Nov 14 15:07:45 <davidw> it doesn't ship anywhere, yet
Nov 14 15:08:36 <SmooveB> android comes with an emulator your can download.  period.
Nov 14 15:08:39 <rustre> guys, anyone ran through the tutorials? and especially, the NotepadV2 ?
Nov 14 15:09:12 * davidw bicycled through the tutorials
Nov 14 15:18:00 <sethibr> is there a flash playr to the android browser ?
Nov 14 15:26:16 <jasonchen> sethibr: no
Nov 14 15:26:29 <jasonchen> rustre: i've been through them once or twice
Nov 14 15:27:42 <davidw> aha... it doesn't like being called from another thread, dammit
Nov 14 15:28:17 <jasonchen> davidw: let me guess...are you attempting to update your view from a child thread?
Nov 14 15:28:40 <davidw> yeah
Nov 14 15:29:10 <jasonchen> davidw: we've documented an idiom to handle this
Nov 14 15:29:12 <rustre> jasonchen: ok, was wondering if i was the only one having small glitches, ikle bugs and stuff ;)
Nov 14 15:29:43 <jasonchen> davidw: basic idea is that you create a Handler in the main/UI thread for your child thread to post back to
Nov 14 15:29:50 * jasonchen is digging up the link in the doc
Nov 14 15:30:05 <davidw> hrm hrm hrm...
Nov 14 15:30:17 <rustre> jasonchen: how cool is it to work for google/open handset alliance ?
Nov 14 15:30:26 <xat> :)
Nov 14 15:30:29 <rustre> are you hiring? :D
Nov 14 15:30:35 <davidw> he's not going to tell you if it sucks;-)
Nov 14 15:30:57 <davidw> don't imagine it does though... you could find other jobs in that area in no time flat
Nov 14 15:30:58 <jasonchen> davidw: i love coming to work everyday; it's awesome
Nov 14 15:31:20 <rustre> davidw: in the "mobile" area? really?
Nov 14 15:31:27 <davidw> rustre, no, in the "bay" area
Nov 14 15:31:31 <rustre> i'm looking for a new job, and would love working in this area
Nov 14 15:31:39 <rustre> "bay" area? sorry, i don't understand :s
Nov 14 15:31:49 <davidw> the san francisco bay area in the united states
Nov 14 15:31:58 <davidw> where google is located
Nov 14 15:31:59 <rustre> oh ok, sorry :/
Nov 14 15:32:43 <jasonchen> rustre: we've actually got offices all over the world, but davidw is right.  google started in mountain view, california
Nov 14 15:33:14 <jasonchen> davidw: http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#threading covers threading and updating UI
Nov 14 15:33:24 <davidw> cool, thanks!
Nov 14 15:34:15 <jasonchen> yw
Nov 14 15:34:38 <rustre> jasonchen: any hiring in your branch? for the android project or related?
Nov 14 15:35:03 <jasonchen> rustre: it's been a while since i ran through the tutorial, so i can't remember if i've hit any snags
Nov 14 15:35:35 <cutmasta> rustre, see google jobs online
Nov 14 15:36:08 <jasonchen> rustre: check out http://google.com/jobs if you're interested in applying
Nov 14 15:36:20 <rustre> thanks jasonchen/cutmasta
Nov 14 15:36:34 * jasonchen would like to keep the discussion in here focused on Android
Nov 14 15:37:01 <jasonchen> rustre: what sort of problems were you running in to w/ the tutorial?
Nov 14 15:37:41 <rustre> jasonchen: nothing really bad actually, and I can't seem to be able to reproduce
Nov 14 15:37:49 <rustre> when running the "NotepadV2" tuto
Nov 14 15:38:20 <jasonchen> hmm, ok
Nov 14 15:38:22 <rustre> at the end, when running the app, I couldn't "highlight" the items, i could either click (with the mouse, on the emulator) an item (which would open the notes editor)
Nov 14 15:38:35 <rustre> either use the menu (so add or delete)
Nov 14 15:38:51 <rustre> and if delete was pressed, it would just delete one item (not sure if it was a random one, or the first one)
Nov 14 15:39:04 <sethibr> i've opened tutorialv1 on eclipse and I got the "Syntax error, parameterized types are only available if source level is 5.0" what does that mean ?
Nov 14 15:39:15 <rustre> I restarted the app, and the items where correctly "highlighted", so I could switch between them, to "select" one, and delete it
Nov 14 15:39:52 <jasonchen> rustre: odd.  you can't recreate it?
Nov 14 15:39:57 <rustre> jasonchen: can't seem to reproduce the issue though... also there's a small glitch in the the tuto for the notepadV2
Nov 14 15:40:02 <rustre> no, just can't, don't know why :(
Nov 14 15:40:11 <jasonchen> rustre: what's the glitch?
Nov 14 15:40:24 <jasonchen> sethibr: what JDK is installed on your machine?
Nov 14 15:40:38 <rustre> well, on the right, you sometimes have a "side note" (displayed on a yellow background)
Nov 14 15:40:52 <rustre> the first one being "starting other activities"
Nov 14 15:41:10 <sethibr> jasonchen: I think the last one, I've downloaded it right now
Nov 14 15:41:20 <rustre> however, I believe this side note should be one section below, as it doesn't seem related to what's discussed in the "step 4" section, but rather in the "step5'
Nov 14 15:41:23 <sethibr> solved, sorry
Nov 14 15:43:07 <jasonchen> sethibr: that particular error usually results when you have eclipse set up to compile your project using JDK 1.4 (or older)
Nov 14 15:43:36 <sethibr> ok, thanks
Nov 14 15:43:40 <jasonchen> sethibr: right clicking and using the "fix project properties" tool in the Android Tools menu should fix it
Nov 14 15:43:46 <cutmasta> jasonchen, do you know if the xmpp api works with current sdk , so that i can start connect to an own jabber server ?
Nov 14 15:43:48 <jasonchen> sethibr: but sounds like you resolve the issue
Nov 14 15:43:59 <sethibr> :D
Nov 14 15:44:22 <jasonchen> rustre: taking a look now....
Nov 14 15:44:41 <rustre> jasonchen: not a big deal ;) just thought I'd tell
Nov 14 15:45:11 <CM> jasonchen: Just a curious question, your issue tracker points to the android-developers group. Is that really the most efficient way to track bugs or patches or requests?
Nov 14 15:46:24 <jasonchen> rustre: good catch; i'm filing that as a bug for us to fix
Nov 14 15:46:34 <rustre> jasonchen: great ;)
Nov 14 15:46:45 <rustre> might find some more, soon, as i'm still going through the doc :D
Nov 14 15:46:53 <rustre> anyway, i think that's enough for me, for today ;)
Nov 14 15:46:56 <rustre> see ya
Nov 14 15:47:09 <jasonchen> rustre: bye
Nov 14 15:53:56 <jasonchen> cutmasta: i believe the answer is no.  but you can federate w/ our XMPP servers to get the same effect
Nov 14 15:54:51 <jasonchen> CM: it's likely not.  :-) we're sorting out how to manage bug reports and hope to have a better solution in place soon
Nov 14 15:55:06 <jasonchen> CM: did you have something specific to report?
Nov 14 15:55:16 <CM> Ok, just wondering. Poor you guys, you must be overwhelmed
Nov 14 15:55:44 <CM> jasonchen: Nothing major that's not already in the group :)
Nov 14 15:56:12 <jasonchen> CM: we're very pleased w/ the interest that people have shown
Nov 14 15:56:18 <cutmasta> jasonchen, im currently trying to connect but dont get a clue how with the api docs
Nov 14 15:56:29 <CM> Had some trouble creating a new Android project in eclipse first because I didn't set a proper com.examle.name thing
Nov 14 15:56:51 <CM> Just got a red cross, no next button and so on, but some guy here helped me along :)
Nov 14 15:57:41 <jasonchen> cutmasta: have you taken a look at the XmppDataMessageReceiver.java and XmppDataMessageSender.java files in the API Demos project?
Nov 14 15:58:11 <jasonchen> CM: hmm, are you using Eclipse 3.2 on Windows?
Nov 14 15:58:28 <jasta> yawn.  Morning jasonchen.
Nov 14 15:58:36 <jasonchen> jasta: welcome back
Nov 14 15:58:59 <cutmasta> jasonchen, thx, thats what i was searching for
Nov 14 15:59:01 <cutmasta> :)
Nov 14 15:59:06 <CM> jasonchen: 3.2.1 on 64-bit linux
Nov 14 15:59:30 <jasonchen> cutmasta: yw
Nov 14 15:59:48 <jasonchen> CM: ah, ok.  you're all sorted out now?
Nov 14 16:00:08 <CM> Yes, was just that there was no error message
Nov 14 16:00:30 <CM> So I didn't spot the simple mistake. No worries, excelent work on the tools :)
Nov 14 16:00:49 <jasonchen> CM: the ADT team will be happy to hear the the compliment
Nov 14 16:00:59 * CM is used to OpenEmbedded from using OpenMoko ;)
Nov 14 16:01:18 <jasonchen> CM: and I believe they know about the lack of an error message in the New Project wizard
Nov 14 16:01:28 <CM> I thought so too :)
Nov 14 16:01:38 <bengl> CM: i have fond memories of OpenEmbedded never working for me
Nov 14 16:02:05 <CM> bengl: It's a constant struggle, and a slow one too. But it's improved lately
Nov 14 16:04:24 <bengl> good to hear
Nov 14 16:04:34 <jasonchen> quick poll: who here would like to see additional mailing lists set up to try to categorize some of the traffic on android-developers?
Nov 14 16:05:11 <dantalizing> i like one big bag o' email topics
Nov 14 16:05:14 <dantalizing> personally
Nov 14 16:05:18 * bengl puts hand up
Nov 14 16:05:33 * jasonchen has heard some grumbling about low S/N on android-developers and wants to get a sense of what the community thinks
Nov 14 16:05:50 <jorgenpt> S/N?
Nov 14 16:05:51 <davidw> the problem is that people would not self-sort onto the "interesting discussions" and "lame questions that have been repeated 10 times" categories
Nov 14 16:06:02 <jasonchen> jorgenpt: signal to noise ratio
Nov 14 16:06:11 <jorgenpt> Ah.
Nov 14 16:06:24 <bengl> well i think there's too many people going on about "what phone can i install this on to test it right now!??"
Nov 14 16:06:29 <SmooveB> I subscribed via rss for one day.  I didn't find it worth my time to stay subscribed.
Nov 14 16:06:33 <SmooveB> that's just me, though
Nov 14 16:06:44 <SmooveB> I'm not doing this fulltime, so my bandwith is limited.
Nov 14 16:07:41 <cutmasta> bye all
Nov 14 16:07:46 <CM> I think thinks will calm down a bit after a while, and hopefully people learn to search and read before posting someting
Nov 14 16:07:52 <davidw> bengl, and "why java" and the poor Italians who, once again screwed by their government, want to know why they're grouped with syria, iran, etc.. and flash questoins
Nov 14 16:08:15 <jasonchen> davidw: sounds like we've got some topics to add to an FAQ for the forum
Nov 14 16:08:23 <davidw> please do!
Nov 14 16:08:41 <bengl> "python is better" "i want 'native code'" etc etc
Nov 14 16:08:42 <jasonchen> CM: we're hoping so too re: mailing list calming down
Nov 14 16:08:48 <davidw> that javascript cpu sucking thing would be wonderful to fix too... I have about 10 browser windows open and they start to add up
Nov 14 16:09:09 * jasonchen will be right back
Nov 14 16:10:38 <davidw> he's off to the bat cave
Nov 14 16:11:08 <CM> And boy wonder cutmasta followed on his tail.. ;)
Nov 14 16:11:29 <Lede> not robin >_>?
Nov 14 16:11:47 <CM> Lede: Robin has an alias in here ;)
Nov 14 16:11:55 <bengl> alright, so i have Runtime.exec throwing an exception every time, now matter what i do, so i'm guesisng it's broken? perhaps for security?
Nov 14 16:12:21 <davidw> what exception?
Nov 14 16:12:57 <bengl> hmm, don't remember, i was working on it last night, i'll try it again now
Nov 14 16:18:40 <jasonchen> davidw: javascript thing?
Nov 14 16:19:41 <davidw> jasonchen, see 'battery eating website' on the mailing list - there's some javascript function that runs a lot
Nov 14 16:20:05 <davidw> dan responded to it though, so perhaps it's already wending its way through the system
Nov 14 16:22:27 <d03boy> does anyone here do consulting or know what the hell a "partner" means?
Nov 14 16:22:47 <jasonchen> davidw: ah, yes.  i just saw tht thread
Nov 14 16:23:01 <davidw> d03boy, in what context?
Nov 14 16:23:47 <bengl> davidw: this is the sort of thing i'm trying http://www.pastebin.ca/773525
Nov 14 16:24:25 <davidw> bengl, what's the error message?
Nov 14 16:24:28 <d03boy> does anyone here do consulting or know what the hell a "partner" generally means?
Nov 14 16:24:57 <jasta> d03boy: what's so confusing about that relationship to you?
Nov 14 16:25:11 <bengl> well i don't know where printStackTrace is printing to..
Nov 14 16:25:30 <jasta> it generally would refer to another entity with which you might work.  like a partner.
Nov 14 16:26:15 <jasta> in the context of software development, that just means two firms that cooperate, possibly on specific products to be launched on a platform.
Nov 14 16:26:31 <jasta> it's all pretty obvious just from the English definition of the word :)
Nov 14 16:26:35 <d03boy> what about the context of law offices?
Nov 14 16:27:00 <d03boy> the context i'm reading about is a law firm
Nov 14 16:27:45 <d03boy> i dont understand why a law firm would have partners
Nov 14 16:28:00 <Essington> in that context a "partner" is a lawyer that works there ...
Nov 14 16:28:11 <jasta> law firm partners are just like co-owners, or even co-workers.
Nov 14 16:28:25 <Essington> though a partner tends to "share in the profits" rather than just receive a paycheck
Nov 14 16:28:26 <jasta> it's just a fellow lawyer.
Nov 14 16:28:28 <d03boy> ok. that wasn't obvious to me. thanks
Nov 14 16:29:22 <davidw> bengl, you need to use Log.v("blah", yourmsg)
Nov 14 16:29:41 <davidw> Log is android.util.Log
Nov 14 16:29:50 <davidw> I wrote my own little stack trace printing thing:
Nov 14 16:30:28 <davidw> http://www.pastebin.ca/773529
Nov 14 16:30:29 <bengl> ah, so it will end up in adb logcat?
Nov 14 16:30:39 <davidw> yeah
Nov 14 16:31:03 <bengl> ah, i was doing the same thing, but making it how up on the screen in a TextView, doh
Nov 14 16:31:05 <davidw> I wish stderr worked, it would make things easier, but c'est la vie
Nov 14 16:33:41 <bengl> alright, awesome, well here's my stacktrace http://www.pastebin.ca/773533
Nov 14 16:34:47 <davidw> you should probably include the error message too
Nov 14 16:34:54 <davidw> but I don't really have the answers:-)
Nov 14 16:35:23 <bengl> thx anyway
Nov 14 16:35:38 <bengl> at least now i know where i can get a stacktrace
Nov 14 16:40:27 <Lede> don't you think it would have been better if stuff like "CPU Usage" and "Show running processes" where displayed in a seperate window
Nov 14 16:43:45 <Lede> or atleast not ontop of the display
Nov 14 16:45:42 <J_P> davidw: hey
Nov 14 16:47:22 <gdiebel> Lede: what?
Nov 14 16:47:47 <Lede> gdiebel: what?
Nov 14 16:48:15 <J_P> davidw: I was see better about hecl, that is very good!
Nov 14 16:48:41 <davidw> J_P, thanks:-)
Nov 14 16:48:47 <gpolo> Lede: doing that would cause those bars to require more resources, making them less accurate
Nov 14 16:48:49 <gdiebel> what does this mean : "don't you think it would have been better if stuff like "CPU Usage" and "Show running processes" where displayed in a seperate window or atleast not ontop of the display"
Nov 14 16:49:20 <jasonchen> Lede: have you tried using DDMS to profile your app?
Nov 14 16:49:23 <davidw> J_P, I have it finding buttons now, and setting the activity's view
Nov 14 16:49:28 <Lede> gdiebel: it means what it means, what part is it that you don't understand?
Nov 14 16:49:39 <Lede> jasonchen: DDMS?
Nov 14 16:50:10 <jasonchen> dalvik debug monitor service
Nov 14 16:50:15 <jasonchen> http://code.google.com/android/reference/ddms.html
Nov 14 16:50:22 <jasonchen> it's a tool included w/ the SDK
Nov 14 16:51:09 <Lede> jasonchen: ah, i didn't know
Nov 14 16:51:55 <gdiebel> Lede: My apologies. I took your comment out of context
Nov 14 16:52:10 <Lede> ._o
Nov 14 16:52:11 <J_P> davidw: Great work ! I thinking to use it instead pure java for android...
Nov 14 16:52:24 <davidw> I could certainly use help with it
Nov 14 16:53:05 <J_P> good
Nov 14 16:53:09 <davidw> although right now the tricky part is the design work... then comes the grunt work of adding options for all the APIs
Nov 14 16:56:53 <Tomasu> yay, coding for a couple days (mostly figting with the api), and I'm starting to get something working... implement a couple ListActivities and I think I can show off my little app :D
Nov 14 16:57:09 <Tomasu> well, darn, I keep forgetting about the service I need to setup ::)
Nov 14 16:57:22 <gdiebel> Tomasu: what type of app is it?
Nov 14 16:57:32 <Tomasu> and spill the beans?
Nov 14 16:57:34 <Tomasu> ;)
Nov 14 16:57:56 <Tomasu> hmm, beans.. java.. pun _not_ intended.
Nov 14 16:58:37 <Tomasu> so many things you have to worry about with the api though, intents, providers, handlers, activities...
Nov 14 17:24:47 <olle_> when i try to load the Android plugin for eclipse, i get this error message: Plugin com.google.android.adt was unable to load class com.google.android.adt.<preferences.AndroidPreferencePage / project.NewProjectWizard / whatever
Nov 14 17:25:02 <olle_> *when i try to use the android plugin
Nov 14 17:25:48 <bengl> =\-
Nov 14 17:26:14 <bengl> pardon me, dog got to the keyboard
Nov 14 17:26:23 <Lede> olle_: what version of eclipse?
Nov 14 17:26:44 <olle_> 3.2.2
Nov 14 17:26:54 <xbit> cute dog
Nov 14 17:26:58 <xbit> :)
Nov 14 17:27:01 <olle_> so it should work
Nov 14 17:27:18 <jasta> jasonchen: I'm heading off to work... should I expect a response about my RelativeLayout issue today?
Nov 14 17:27:51 <Lede> olle_: hm, ok, i assume you followed the install guide correctly?
Nov 14 17:28:02 <olle_> sure ;)
Nov 14 17:29:37 <Lede> i didn't get that error, so i can't really help much more then that :/
Nov 14 17:29:42 <jasonchen> jasta: i'll send you an email today
Nov 14 17:30:23 <bengl> jasonchen: is Runtime.exec disabled? or is it my bad?
Nov 14 17:31:37 <bengl> (i'm trying to run "ps" and spit the results out)
Nov 14 17:33:48 <jasonchen> bengl: if it isn't in the package index, then it's not available in the framework
Nov 14 17:34:49 <bengl> nah, it's in the package index, i must be doing something wrong
Nov 14 17:35:13 <e1f> any chance of a netbeans plugin for android
Nov 14 17:35:47 <sethibr> how you guys are doing with android ?
Nov 14 17:39:01 <jasonchen> olle_: that sounds like you haven't configured ADT with the location of where you installed the SDK
Nov 14 17:40:19 <SmooveB> 2
Nov 14 17:48:35 <jasta> jasonchen: Cool, I'm excited to finish my reference app tonight after work :)
Nov 14 17:48:45 <jasta> I'm writing a File Manager of sorts.
Nov 14 17:48:55 <jasta> Just to play and learn...
Nov 14 18:03:10 <olle_> hi
Nov 14 18:04:37 <olle_> i tried to set up ADT with the SDK location, but that's when the error occured
Nov 14 18:04:56 <olle_> i simply cannot use the _plugin_, not the sdk
Nov 14 18:05:13 <olle_> maybe my Java runtime is bad?
Nov 14 18:19:42 <SunboX> how can i write in to the eclipse Console?
Nov 14 18:19:57 <SunboX> System.out.println(string); doesn't work
Nov 14 18:20:51 <xbit> i don't think you can
Nov 14 18:22:49 <SunboX> hm, whats the best way to view debug information?
Nov 14 18:23:05 <SunboX> i don't want popup messages
Nov 14 18:23:09 <olle_> when i try to load the Android plugin for eclipse, i get this error message: Plugin com.google.android.adt was unable to load class com.google.android.adt.<preferences.AndroidPreferencePage / project.NewProjectWizard / whatever
Nov 14 18:23:20 <olle_> *when i try to use the android plugin
Nov 14 18:24:55 <parti> olle_, restart eclipse?
Nov 14 18:24:57 <SmooveB> what version of the jdk are you using in eclipse?  I'd make sure it's at least 1.5 / Java5 / wtf ever they call it
Nov 14 18:25:21 <olle_> ive tried that
Nov 14 18:25:38 <xbit> SunboX: use the debugger
Nov 14 18:25:41 <olle_> Smooveb: ill check that
Nov 14 18:32:23 <olle_> java version "1.4.2"
Nov 14 18:32:23 <olle_> gij (GNU libgcj) version 4.1.2 (Ubuntu 4.1.2-0ubuntu5)
Nov 14 18:32:26 <olle_> ouch
Nov 14 18:35:53 * Stephmw looks around for a googler :)
Nov 14 18:36:38 * Lede points at jasonchen
Nov 14 18:36:51 <Lede> who is not here now..
Nov 14 18:37:54 <Stephmw> aye, I guess they're all in a meeting?
Nov 14 18:38:17 <Lede> no idea
Nov 14 18:42:47 <SanMehat> I'm sure someone will be back soon.
Nov 14 18:44:10 <SunboX> hm, how do i use the debugger? i can
Nov 14 18:44:22 <SunboX> i can't find docs
Nov 14 18:48:51 <davidw> real men debug using print statements;-)
Nov 14 18:49:53 <Zoolooc> hehe, real men don't click
Nov 14 18:50:00 <shapr> real men write bytecode by hand.
Nov 14 18:50:09 <Zoolooc> they use CLI on smatphones, too
Nov 14 18:50:34 <shapr> I don't need a keyboard, Ihave eight dip switches on the front of my computer, and I read binary from my one LED.
Nov 14 18:50:53 <Stephmw> shapr: Real Men wave magnets over their hdd to produce binaries
Nov 14 18:50:56 <shapr> haha
Nov 14 18:51:07 <sethibr> LOL
Nov 14 18:51:07 <olle_> lol!
Nov 14 18:51:44 <SunboX> :P
Nov 14 18:51:45 <Lede> oh my, this discussion occurs in like every irc channel
Nov 14 18:51:58 <SunboX> i will write software
Nov 14 18:52:02 <SunboX> no bytecode
Nov 14 18:52:13 <olle_> bytecode isnt software?
Nov 14 18:52:17 <Stephmw> Lede: why do you think I was so well practiced?
Nov 14 18:52:30 <Lede> Stephmw: you train!
Nov 14 18:52:37 <SunboX> ufff
Nov 14 18:53:06 <SunboX> write software in bytecode takes longer than writing it in java ;o)
Nov 14 18:53:19 <Stephmw> Lede: in every other irc channel... of course
Nov 14 18:53:46 <Zoolooc> hey, is there brainfuck bindings planned?
Nov 14 18:54:04 <SunboX> brainfuck? you freaks...
Nov 14 18:54:11 <Lede> Zoolooc: how is that usefull?
Nov 14 18:54:16 <SunboX> write bytecode! :P
Nov 14 18:54:32 <Zoolooc> don't know if there is a java or a native linux brainfuck compiler
Nov 14 18:54:48 <Zoolooc> whitespace...
Nov 14 18:55:36 <Zoolooc> Lede: well, does it have to?
Nov 14 18:55:39 <bengl> java.lang.VMProcess.exec
Nov 14 18:55:55 <bengl> whoopsee, wrong bit of the clipboard
Nov 14 18:56:06 <bengl> http://directory.fsf.org/project/jbfc/
Nov 14 18:56:08 <bengl> there we go
Nov 14 18:56:39 <Zoolooc> I'll throw myself away :D
Nov 14 18:57:42 <nbd> it's very easy to write a script that converts brainfuck to i386 assembler
Nov 14 18:58:04 <Zoolooc> what about arm9?
Nov 14 18:58:11 <nbd> should be equally easy
Nov 14 18:58:18 <nbd> if you care about performance :D
Nov 14 18:59:59 <Zoolooc> guess I should start messing with jbfc on my HTC TyTN II, that's why its implemented in java, in the end ;)
Nov 14 19:00:56 <Zoolooc> or it's the other way around, whatever, this is way OT
Nov 14 19:01:55 <bluerive1> is there any accelerometer api in android? my search didn't turn up any results.
Nov 14 19:02:10 <bengl> don't think so
Nov 14 19:02:45 <bluerive1> oh. so bad :(
Nov 14 19:03:38 <fcarvalho> is there some accelerometer api in some place? I would like to play with one :)
Nov 14 19:03:51 <bluerive1> Symbian, I guess
Nov 14 19:31:19 <guardian> evening
Nov 14 19:31:35 <rangen> bluerive1: sensor api has some support
Nov 14 19:38:34 <bluerive1> thanks, rangen!
Nov 14 19:42:44 <alUrdun> In case this hasn't been announced here, Android kernel Git repository found. For Qualcomm MSM7K series, the chpsit the HTC kaiser runs. http://www.helloandroid.com/node/22
Nov 14 19:51:19 <Lede> alUrdun: but you can get the kernel here http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list
Nov 14 19:51:39 <Lede> the linux kernel that is
Nov 14 19:54:16 <Zoolooc> alUrdun: did you actually try booting that kernel with haret on kaiser?
Nov 14 19:55:25 <Zoolooc> ask swetland, it's not yet kaiser ready, it's actually for the MSM7200A chipset right now, Kaiser is MSM7200 (w/o 'A')
Nov 14 19:56:12 <SanMehat> yeah, there are some farirly significant differences between the 7200 and the 7200A
Nov 14 19:57:29 <alUrdun> Zoolooc: No.
Nov 14 19:57:42 <Zoolooc> is there somebody with the necessary knowledge and access to the right information ever going to fix that?
Nov 14 19:57:56 <SanMehat> fix what?
Nov 14 19:58:19 <Zoolooc> that this MSM kernel found in git supports also msm7200
Nov 14 19:58:59 <SmooveB> it's git, clone it and fix it yourself?
Nov 14 19:59:56 <Zoolooc> I asked about someboidy with knowledge and acces to information
Nov 14 20:00:21 <SanMehat> Sorry Zoolooc, I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is you're hoping will get done..
Nov 14 20:02:13 <Zoolooc> the irq/gpio stuff which is different from 7200A and prevents the kernel to even boot on 7200 (something like that, I'm not a kernel programmer, it's beyond my knowledge right now)
Nov 14 20:03:47 <SmooveB> someone somewhere will probably fix it at some point.  who and when and where, I dunno.
Nov 14 20:10:42 <alUrdun> Are there any other phones currently on the market that this kernel will boot on?
Nov 14 20:13:18 <SmooveB> "and will they do my homework for me?"
Nov 14 20:14:36 <alUrdun> SmooveB: point taken.
Nov 14 20:15:37 <Zoolooc> someone otuside this oha /google team has to reverse-engineer, hack & stuff
Nov 14 20:17:25 <mr_daniel> Zoolooc: why reverse-engineer? isn't it all opensource?
Nov 14 20:17:33 <SmooveB> really, it's more a question of having some MSM 7200 hardware.
Nov 14 20:17:42 <SmooveB> and specs.
Nov 14 20:17:54 <Zoolooc> yes, that's what I meant
Nov 14 20:20:55 <alUrdun> Are the kernel available from code.google.com and the MSM7200A kernel the same?
Nov 14 20:21:51 <Zoolooc> I have the kaiser, but no specs, and I would dive into this (could also get support from skilled folks) if I'd have acces to the required information
Nov 14 20:48:31 <Ogedei> this may be a stupid question -- but how does one build the sample programs that come with the SDK? (without Eclipse)
Nov 14 20:49:23 <jasta> Ogedei: I think you'd need to actually write a build.xml for them and use ant.  It should work just fine, take a look at the reference skeleton that you can create with other android tools.
Nov 14 20:51:07 <jasonchen> Ogedei: take a look at: http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#otherides
Nov 14 20:51:55 <jasonchen> Ogedei: basically, you use the activityCreator.py script to generate the build.xml ant file
Nov 14 20:51:55 <Ogedei> jasta: ah, got it, I had to generate the build.xml with activityCreator.py
Nov 14 20:52:03 <Ogedei> heh, right, thanks
Nov 14 20:55:24 <Ogedei> is the emulator supposed to be rather cpu-heavy, or am I doing something wrong when it is horribly unresponsive on an 800 MHz machine?
Nov 14 20:56:10 <jasta> So, where is the source to the android.* java packages btw?  Is that portion of the SDK closed source?
Nov 14 20:59:12 <jasonchen> jasta: this is an early look at the Android SDK.  we're working towards open-sourcing the entire platform.
Nov 14 20:59:38 <gpolo> jasonchen: do you have some approximation on how long this will take ?
Nov 14 20:59:46 <jasta> Oh, that's what I had assumed actually.
Nov 14 21:00:05 <Zsotya> re
Nov 14 21:01:18 <jasonchen> gpolo: unfortunately, no.  as you've seen, there's 30+ members of the Alliance and many of them have contributed software to the platform.  so there's some complexity in open sourcing it.
Nov 14 21:01:41 <gpolo> i see
Nov 14 21:02:13 <jasta> I was specifically curious what setContentView() does ;)
Nov 14 21:02:15 <gpolo> but didnt they contribute knowning that it would be open-sourced ?
Nov 14 21:07:08 <Tomasu> for some reason, android isn't letting me assign ANYTHING to a "android:layout_marginLeft" property in my layout xml..
Nov 14 21:07:24 <xbit> Ogedei: if you're using a 800 Mhz machine, you're using a horrible slow machine :p
Nov 14 21:07:30 <Tomasu> I give it an int, it says integer types arent alowed (which is what it used in the docs), and a string gives an error as well.
Nov 14 21:08:14 <Tomasu> anyone have a hint to what I might be doing wrong?
Nov 14 21:09:30 <Lede> Ogedei: the emulator is also slow on 2.4 Ghz pentium :/
Nov 14 21:09:56 <Tomasu> ok, seems the example is wrong, a plain int wont work, you need to use a "4dip" type arg.
Nov 14 21:11:26 <Lede> jasonchen: hm, will it be possible to compile and run android platform on PC's aswell?
Nov 14 21:15:30 <Lede> nevermind
Nov 14 21:20:29 <lupin[4]> hi guys
Nov 14 21:20:51 <lupin[4]> im having problem in launching android applications from eclipse 3.3
Nov 14 21:21:27 <lupin[4]> whn i press the launch button, what i can see is just the emulator starting the os, ignoring my application
Nov 14 21:21:29 <lupin[4]> just this..
Nov 14 21:21:32 <lupin[4]> any ideas?
Nov 14 21:22:40 <rwhitby> jasonchen: the goldfish platform is completely open sourced now, right?  I guess kernel patches and stuff for real hardware is up to the hardware vendor and outside of Google's hands ...
Nov 14 21:22:55 <rwhitby> (goldfish is the virtual hardware that the emulator emulates)
Nov 14 21:23:00 <lupin[4]> sometimes, i managed to launch the app correctly, by cleaning and reuilding the apk package
Nov 14 21:23:06 <lupin[4]> *rebuilding
Nov 14 21:23:48 <Marv|LG> i noticed you have to make a change to the application for it to load up
Nov 14 21:23:48 <Lede> lupin[4]: when the emulator started hit run again
Nov 14 21:24:12 <lupin[4]> Lede: tnx :)
Nov 14 21:24:57 <lupin[4]> Marv|LG: I tried to change, and sometimes it worked
Nov 14 21:25:05 <lupin[4]> not always :-/
Nov 14 21:25:20 <lupin[4]> thanks for that hint, anyway :)
Nov 14 21:26:33 <Marv|LG> you on os x?
Nov 14 21:26:56 <lupin[4]> just linux
Nov 14 21:26:59 <lupin[4]> gentoo
Nov 14 21:27:56 <steve_k> hey all -- anyone see anything in the docs that describe the various values of the "id" attributes i the layout XML?
Nov 14 21:28:45 <bengl> steve_k: set those yourself, you need them to call them from your code
Nov 14 21:29:04 <bengl> but keep the @+id/ prefix
Nov 14 21:30:00 <steve_k> when using a ListActiviy with my own layout, i had to use "@android:id/list" on the list i wanted to bind to  -- what does the @android:id bit mean?
Nov 14 21:36:05 <lupin[4]> Lede: it works ;)
Nov 14 21:38:38 <Stephmw> steve_k: looks like a selector, I believe it's used to generate R.java
Nov 14 21:50:24 <Marv|LG> i am kinda curious on how i would see the results of a stacktrace
Nov 14 21:55:51 <steve_k> Marv|LG: you can kill -3 one of the processes
Nov 14 21:55:59 <steve_k> (or at leas that is what I read)
Nov 14 22:13:27 <davidw> Marv|LG, try this:
Nov 14 22:13:51 <davidw> http://www.pastebin.ca/773529
Nov 14 22:14:32 <Marv|LG> thanks, I will try that shortly
Nov 14 22:49:36 <cutmasta> bye all
Nov 14 23:43:53 <jasta> jasonchen: I've been digging deeper and I see widgets that seem to accomplish something that I've after, but I can't see how they are doing it (because I don't have the source *grin*).
Nov 14 23:48:12 <jasta> There must be some type of magic hidden interface that translates a resourceID into a View :)
Nov 14 23:52:03 * morphir needs help starting firing up the ide
Nov 14 23:52:16 <morphir> starting/firing .p
Nov 14 23:53:21 <morphir> java -jar android.jar should work, ai?
Nov 14 23:53:51 <steve_k> i think eclipse is the IDE :)
Nov 14 23:54:00 <jasta> Eclipse is the IDE Google is using for most of their work.
Nov 14 23:54:07 <jasta> They wrote an Exclipse plugin specifically for Android
Nov 14 23:54:24 <jasta> android.jar is the actual run-time for the Android platform.
Nov 14 23:54:38 <morphir> well, I get Invalid or corrupt jarfile android.jar
Nov 14 23:57:15 <morphir> ok, so I need eclipse as well?
Nov 14 23:58:17 <jasta> not as well.  android.jar is not part of the development environment.
Nov 14 23:58:51 <morphir> how do I fire up this beast?
Nov 14 23:59:19 <steve_k> you can run the "emulator" executable in the tools dir
Nov 14 23:59:39 <steve_k> but if you want to develop, check out http://code.google.com/android/intro/index.html
Nov 14 23:59:47 <morphir> I am
Nov 15 00:00:12 <morphir> what the document says I do, but no luck
Nov 15 00:01:59 <jasta> morphir: Read first, type second.  You're getting ahead of yourself I think.
Nov 15 00:02:54 <morphir> right, I fired up ./emulator now :-)
Nov 15 00:04:20 <morphir> sweet! wohaa!
Nov 15 00:04:46 <morphir> the browser is online right away
Nov 15 00:09:02 <don-o> a little transparent system process list is in the upper right corner. how do i turn that off?
Nov 15 00:09:09 <morphir> what was the name of that phone again? ii... p.. mmm, I-forgot-phone
Nov 15 00:10:30 <morphir> can you have other phone skins?
Nov 15 00:13:13 <boulbul> hi, I am new to this room, I just want to ask if it is possible to install android on any phone at the moment? if yes what handsets does it support?
Nov 15 00:13:15 * davidw -> sleep().
Nov 15 00:13:46 <davidw> boulbul, read the web site: no.
Nov 15 00:13:59 <boulbul> davidw: thanks
Nov 15 00:14:20 <jasta> morphir: Yes, kind of.  The theming engine is open, and does contain 2 reference themes.
Nov 15 00:14:37 <jasta> Also, the emulator has different "skins" for different types of devices, but I suspect this is not what you meant.
Nov 15 00:14:57 <jasta> there is ThemeDark and ThemeWhite.  Go through all the ApiDemos, you will find it.
Nov 15 00:15:28 <morphir> ok, so there is no way to change skin trough the gui?
Nov 15 00:16:13 <jasta> morphir: No, however the platform is missing an enormous amount of functionality that an end user would expect.  Perhaps you are not prepared for this release.  Check back later :)
Nov 15 00:16:29 <morphir> hehe
Nov 15 00:16:54 <morphir> I was just asking you know
Nov 15 00:17:28 <jasta> the end user experience as it is currently packaged by the platform is much more of a demo than a usable phone interface.
Nov 15 00:17:38 <jasta> it's a demo of all the underpinnings.
Nov 15 00:17:52 <morphir> I'm a developer
Nov 15 00:19:06 <morphir> jasta, so the vendors will make skins for their mobiles as time goes?
Nov 15 00:19:56 <jasta> I cannot predict what people will do who are not me, and I am not a vendor.
Nov 15 00:20:10 <morphir> makes sense
Nov 15 00:21:13 <jasta> Actually though, the specific plan for the Android platform has not been revealed to us by the Google demigods.  How the various partners fit into the big picture seems intuitive enough, but the details are all missing.
Nov 15 00:22:24 <morphir> imagine all to cool apps that will pop up bc of this platform
Nov 15 00:24:45 <morphir> the system resource problem seems solved in a most elegant way
Nov 15 00:44:38 <Marv|LG> cool apps that we can run on our emulators ;)
Nov 15 00:48:49 <nagaxen> Marv|LG: haha :)
Nov 15 01:13:43 <morphir> yup, I start playing doom on the emulator instead
Nov 15 01:15:45 <morphir> anyways, emu-laters!
Nov 15 01:15:53 <Dralspire> hehe laters :D
Nov 15 01:23:50 <tekteen> Any one know how to test connecting to other phones with the SDK
Nov 15 01:26:13 <tekteen> I am learning JAVA just to program the phone. Although I know other languages
Nov 15 01:39:21 <rwhitby> More Android internals stuff noted at http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/category/android
Nov 15 01:43:25 <tekteen> thanks rwhitby
Nov 15 01:51:54 <Writchie> rwhitby: tx - good stuff
Nov 15 01:56:28 <jasta> Hmm.
Nov 15 02:00:17 <tlockney> rwhitby: great stuff... need to add a couple of those to my own list (mostly just links to Ben's stuff so far)
Nov 15 02:00:51 <rwhitby> tlockney: I'm thinking of setting up a wiki
Nov 15 02:01:54 * jasta sighs.
Nov 15 02:02:09 <jasta> I think jasonchen gave up on me :)
Nov 15 02:02:43 <tlockney> rwhitby: that would be a great idea
Nov 15 02:03:55 <tlockney> jasta: I don't doubt the google guys are VERY busy right now... I would just be patient and ask again in a couple days
Nov 15 02:04:00 <rwhitby> tlockney: did you get my /msg ?
Nov 15 02:04:35 <jasta> Just kinda killed all my motivation to work on this platform with such a glaring omission :(
Nov 15 02:04:40 <tlockney> rwhitby: yeah, hadn't noticed it... sorry, multitasking ;~)
Nov 15 02:05:37 <tlockney> in the middle of a large work project I've been procrastinating on
Nov 15 02:06:09 <tlockney> trying to pay enough attention here to keep from missing the good stuff ;~)
Nov 15 02:06:34 <peteryang> hello, is there any big advantage of android compared to J2ME? at least J2ME currently works on lots of handsets already
Nov 15 02:06:35 <tlockney> jasta: that's too bad... but keep in mind it's all very early and they warned people that much would change
Nov 15 02:07:20 <jasta> Hmm, I suppose I could just hardcode the layout I'm looking for to only run on the 1 emulator screen I actually use.
Nov 15 02:07:50 <tlockney> peteryang: sorry, haven't really worked with j2me
Nov 15 02:08:10 <peteryang> j2me is just like android jvm
Nov 15 02:08:14 <tlockney> but I get the impression android has closer integration with the hardware
Nov 15 02:08:16 <peteryang> so much difference
Nov 15 02:09:18 <peteryang> i don't think android has closer ntegration with the hardware. Example, Nokia has their own JVM/j2me which follows Sun's JSR standards..
Nov 15 02:09:38 <tlockney> like I said, just my impression
Nov 15 02:09:43 <jasta> it has tighter integration with the platform itself, not the hardware.
Nov 15 02:10:03 <tlockney> right, sorry, platform would have been a better way to put it
Nov 15 02:10:15 <jasta> which is ultimately more useful, since the platform by extension must also have access to device paradigms.
Nov 15 02:12:10 <tlockney> peteryang: google has also implied (if not outright said) that there will be the possibility of native code on the android platform -- a few have already made steps in that direction without google's help
Nov 15 02:12:17 <peteryang> i really cannot see what is the big difference between android and j2me. The only advantage is that android allow the developers to get the phone/SIM identity.
Nov 15 02:12:58 <Marv|LG> from what i understand from my brother is that j2me is a standard but each phone has their own little "hacks"(my brother writes j2me apps for a living)
Nov 15 02:13:09 <peteryang> the challenging faced by mobile developers is not API but the devices which are not compatible with the API
Nov 15 02:13:32 <jasta> peteryang: The devil is in the details.  Google has created a good implementation of Java for mobile phones, where previously all other implementations have been terrible.
Nov 15 02:13:52 <jasta> It is not the thing being implemented which was at fault all along, it is the pattern of the implementations themselves.  Google correctly identified and solved that problem.
Nov 15 02:14:06 <peteryang> google just push the difference to lower layer
Nov 15 02:14:40 <peteryang> hope so
Nov 15 02:15:06 <jasta> peteryang: Untrue, but it is also worth mentioning that Google then did the necessary leg work to actually produce a workable set of abstractions specifically for mobile devices.  Though they are not done yet :)
Nov 15 02:16:11 <peteryang> over years of j2me, i think google guys definitely understand what they should do
Nov 15 02:16:49 <parti> android company spawned in 2005
Nov 15 02:20:47 <peteryang> " google has also implied (if not outright said) that there will be the possibility of native code on the android platform"........This is very bad. If java is primary language, the best way is just keep using java and do not allow others. One language is enough
Nov 15 02:21:44 <jasta> I wonder if a Google engineer would be willing to give me the source to RelativeLayout.java ;)
Nov 15 02:22:50 <tlockney> peteryang: sorry, not going to get in an argument with you about that, but I respectfully disagree
Nov 15 02:23:29 <peteryang> it maybe due to my lacking info on android. thanks anyway
Nov 15 02:23:31 <jasta> peteryang: Don't forget that the phone itself is already relying heavily on existing works in C.
Nov 15 02:24:12 <d03boy> i hope it doesnt turn into a linux.. that branches in 9000000 directions
Nov 15 02:24:30 <peteryang> i always think a bit more control will have better result
Nov 15 02:24:42 <peteryang> more productive and unnecessary argument
Nov 15 02:25:02 <jasta> peteryang: Control is the opposite of what this platform needs.
Nov 15 02:25:12 <jasta> Control is why cell phones are so terrible right now.
Nov 15 02:25:29 <d03boy> i dotn think thats how he meant it
Nov 15 02:25:36 <peteryang> control the API, so that it is not "TOO flexiable" for developer
Nov 15 02:25:39 <d03boy> i think he's more or less saying he wants one angle of attack rather than 90
Nov 15 02:26:02 <d03boy> 1 good oen instead of 9 decent ones
Nov 15 02:26:03 <jasta> Well anyway, I would prefer to write code right now :)
Nov 15 02:26:20 <jasta> Someone come get me when/if jasonchen arrives :)
Nov 15 02:26:21 <peteryang> in open source, too flexible is not a good thing. it always kill yourself
Nov 15 02:27:23 <rwhitby> good think linux was not too flexible, or else it wouldn't have been suitable for the underlying OS for Android ;-)
Nov 15 02:28:28 <rwhitby> (I respectfully disagree with you too - that's why I've just registered the android-linux.org domain)
Nov 15 02:29:48 <peteryang> software stack is not a big thing currently. Even j2me, its APIs are actually powerful. The problem is that no matter what is your specs, the hardware manufacturer not necessary test the api fully.
Nov 15 02:30:00 <peteryang> It possiblly due to the short lifecycle of mobile devices
Nov 15 02:34:16 <tlockney> peteryang: it's important to notice that google is creating an entire platform, unlike other vendors -- j2me is not a platform, it's just a software stack
Nov 15 02:35:04 <jasta> i am so frustrated that the core APIs here are closed source.  this is driving me insane trying to actually write an application.
Nov 15 02:35:08 <peteryang> yes, it is a bit better with more control
Nov 15 02:35:25 <jasta> everywhere i look they're referencing some magic i don't have access to.
Nov 15 02:35:53 <peteryang> jasta, what things you are trying to do?
Nov 15 02:35:56 <d03boy> jasta, huh?
Nov 15 02:36:37 <jasta> peteryang: use a RelativeLayout with a ListViewAdapter, for one.
Nov 15 02:37:18 <peteryang> you do some coding on it now? i did not try yet
Nov 15 02:37:27 <jasta> Of course.
Nov 15 02:37:36 <jasta> You're all just sitting around talking about a platform you don't even know :)
Nov 15 02:38:15 <tlockney> haha, touche, jasta... oth, I have been playing with it. just not in the direction you are going ;~)
Nov 15 02:38:17 <Dralspire> jasta, you are such a comedian :D
Nov 15 02:39:37 <jasta> If you take a good hard look at it, you'll realize there are holes everywhere, and the source isn't available to fill in the details.
Nov 15 02:39:58 <peteryang> because i do not care one specific api, i want to find out the big picture first by some analysis
Nov 15 02:40:14 <tlockney> jasta: I suspect they just wanted to get something out to get people thinking about it and seeing what they could do...
Nov 15 02:40:48 <swetland> it is a "preview".  it's not exactly "done" yet. ^^
Nov 15 02:40:48 <peteryang> especially, how can they minimize the hardware problems
Nov 15 02:41:28 <vbabiy> Hello everyone
Nov 15 02:41:35 <Dralspire> hi hi
Nov 15 02:41:42 <jasta> tlockney: Me too, and I'm happy to give them a couple of months to release the full SDK.
Nov 15 02:41:53 <swetland> there will be more releases -- plenty of opportunity to provide feedback and the developer advocates are reading the android-developers group, filing bugs, and bothering the engineering team about issues
Nov 15 02:41:55 <jasta> Although, I heard inside rumors that what we have now was rushed out the door as a result of leaks :)
Nov 15 02:41:58 <tlockney> I can totally understand the frustration though
Nov 15 02:42:10 <tlockney> jasta: I don't doubt taht
Nov 15 02:42:16 * swetland laughs
Nov 15 02:42:18 <swetland> so many rumors
Nov 15 02:42:33 <parti> but why a contest so soon then?
Nov 15 02:42:36 <jasta> But regardless, I'll happily try to write some sample applications for the community to glance at.
Nov 15 02:42:44 <d03boy> parti, publicity?
Nov 15 02:42:51 <jasta> Google's only decent sample app is NotePad, the rest of them barely touch on any of the fundamental concepts.
Nov 15 02:43:05 <swetland> perhaps to provide some incentive to spend a bunch of time working on a platform before devices have shipped on it ^^
Nov 15 02:43:17 <peteryang> they have xmpp api
Nov 15 02:43:34 <peteryang> you can do a jabber instant messaging to connect to google talk
Nov 15 02:43:55 <jasta> peteryang: Sure could.  ...or could you? :)
Nov 15 02:44:15 <peteryang> it is easy for me to do that. but i want to see the value :-)
Nov 15 02:44:16 <jasta> Anyway, I really would like to get back to dev.  See you folks later.
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