**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 15 02:59:57 2007
Nov 15 03:21:38 <jasta> sweet
Nov 15 03:21:48 <jasta> i basically have an interactive ls and cd :)
Nov 15 03:21:49 <tlockney> jasta: success?
Nov 15 03:23:32 <jasta> I'm not really sure about this Intent.putExtra thing, though.  I'd ideally like to pass a File object but it says I can't do that for some reason.
Nov 15 03:24:02 <d03boy> clipboard
Nov 15 03:24:19 <jasta> ?
Nov 15 03:24:37 <d03boy> joke
Nov 15 03:43:20 <ad0le> Has anyone managed to get SQLite createDatabase working?
Nov 15 03:50:19 <billsb> Wow, packed already
Nov 15 03:50:20 <billsb> ;)
Nov 15 03:51:43 <ad0le> yup :)
Nov 15 03:52:16 <rwhitby> g'day billsb
Nov 15 03:54:33 <ad0le> Man, java is tough for a hardcore c# guy. Never touched java before, but it's obvious where the "inspiration" for c# came from :)
Nov 15 03:55:08 <chowmeined> well dont get any ideas
Nov 15 03:56:54 <ad0le> so far, the only thing I am missing is unsigned types... otherwise, it's just minor syntax differences and class properties differences
Nov 15 03:57:42 <ad0le> kind of cool that methods are virtual by default
Nov 15 03:59:39 <billsb> LOL, isnt java a little easier than C#
Nov 15 03:59:54 <d03boy> ya
Nov 15 04:00:15 * billsb is a ruby programmer
Nov 15 04:00:16 <billsb> ;)
Nov 15 04:00:50 <ad0le> time will tell... but I feel pretty comfortable with java considering i've never touched it before
Nov 15 04:01:04 <d03boy> i learned C# in like.. 2 days after I already knew java
Nov 15 04:01:07 <d03boy> they're that similar..
Nov 15 04:01:24 <d03boy> C# seems to unnecessarily complicate a few things though whcih I'm not a fan of
Nov 15 04:02:11 <billsb> Do you think most development will revolve around java using android or will linux folks prefer to use C?
Nov 15 04:02:11 <ad0le> any roadblocks I should look out for d03boy?
Nov 15 04:02:47 <d03boy> ad0le, not really.. most things are similar once you get over the lack of Properties
Nov 15 04:03:20 <ad0le> how do you deal with a lack of unsigned int types?
Nov 15 04:03:32 <d03boy> what are you trying to do?
Nov 15 04:03:44 <billsb> oh static typing
Nov 15 04:04:02 <ad0le> I was trying to port a NES emulation engine
Nov 15 04:04:26 <ad0le> had to replace all the UINT to LONG in java
Nov 15 04:06:17 <ad0le> another thing I havent seen in the adroid libs is support for accelerometers.
Nov 15 04:06:18 <d03boy> well there you go
Nov 15 04:07:12 <ad0le> there is no call back for screen orientation for an activity, which I would assume existed if support was planned
Nov 15 04:09:02 <billsb> I used acceleromters on Japanese phones for games it sucked big time
Nov 15 04:11:23 <ad0le> its just a glorified mouse... problem is reading the input from a thread in realtime
Nov 15 04:12:38 <chowmeined> billsb, no it wont matter
Nov 15 04:13:16 <billsb> I guess it depends on what your developing
Nov 15 04:13:17 <chowmeined> C is unacceptable anyways
Nov 15 04:13:23 <chowmeined> it doesnt fit the design requirements
Nov 15 04:13:30 <billsb> K
Nov 15 04:14:06 * billsb wonders if maemo is dead now
Nov 15 04:20:26 <ad0le> I don't think Nokia will hop on board (opinion obviously).. so, maemo probably safe for the time being
Nov 15 04:23:10 <chowmeined> until android dominates the market
Nov 15 04:23:14 <chowmeined> in which case they are free to join
Nov 15 04:23:23 <billsb> heh
Nov 15 04:23:41 * billsb hopes you can get the Japanese phone makers on board
Nov 15 04:23:50 <billsb> That would really suprise me if you can
Nov 15 04:24:19 <ad0le> whats to keep Nokia from impelmenting android VM into thier linux distro??
Nov 15 04:24:48 <d03boy> whats teh problem with that?
Nov 15 04:25:25 <ad0le> nothing at all... its a bonus for any of the already "linux" phones. Like the NEO
Nov 15 04:25:42 <ad0le> just havent heard anything about either of those guys yet
Nov 15 04:25:52 <ad0le> maemo or neo
Nov 15 04:26:02 <ad0le> Zareus either
Nov 15 04:26:26 <chowmeined> well
Nov 15 04:26:34 <chowmeined> motorola, samsung and LG are cool
Nov 15 04:27:57 <chowmeined> billsb, my "it wont matter" was in reference to linux folks preferring to use C
Nov 15 04:28:24 <billsb> Yeah, so you mean if they want, they can.
Nov 15 04:28:50 <billsb> Wont that mean that the C has to be compiled for the architecture of the phone
Nov 15 04:28:50 <chowmeined> sure they can tinker all they want on their own phones
Nov 15 04:28:59 <chowmeined> there wont be any way to distribute them
Nov 15 04:29:09 <billsb> No, ok.
Nov 15 04:29:52 <chowmeined> id rather C not be available to mainstream developers for distribution
Nov 15 04:30:07 <chowmeined> they (in general) have already proven they cant handle it
Nov 15 04:30:14 <billsb> K
Nov 15 04:30:21 <d03boy> lol
Nov 15 04:30:26 <d03boy> i like your style
Nov 15 04:30:28 <chowmeined> imho
Nov 15 04:30:45 <billsb> Im just so glad for this project as WURFL and building sites for mobile is a major PITA
Nov 15 04:31:11 <chowmeined> d03boy, who? billsb?
Nov 15 04:31:53 <d03boy> you
Nov 15 04:32:20 <chowmeined> oh
Nov 15 04:32:49 <jasta> i can't wait to see source for the whole platform :(
Nov 15 04:34:26 <chowmeined> thanks i guess
Nov 15 04:38:19 * billsb wonders Is google in need of engineers to work on android
Nov 15 04:39:37 <chowmeined> i hope once the SDK is open sourced google will work with the community
Nov 15 04:57:29 <eno> any1 have luck with http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/3d68334a74a9bab2?dmode=source ?
Nov 15 05:11:47 <godzirra> Howdy folks.  Can anyone help me out with the button listeners?
Nov 15 05:12:08 <godzirra> I'm doing it just like in the examples on the Android site, but it doesn't seem to actually be working, and I'm not clear on what I'm doing wrong.
Nov 15 05:12:50 <godzirra> http://sial.org/pbot/28636 is where I pasted my code.
Nov 15 05:15:30 <godzirra> Anyone alive? :)
Nov 15 05:16:55 <synap> one mom
Nov 15 05:19:01 <synap> ok weird
Nov 15 05:19:04 <synap> looks good actually
Nov 15 05:20:54 <godzirra> Yeah, I didn't see anything I was doing immediately wrong...
Nov 15 05:21:29 <godzirra> Here's my errors:  http://sial.org/pbot/28637
Nov 15 05:21:33 <godzirra> (Its not pretty... sorry)
Nov 15 05:23:34 <synap> ooh wait I thought you had runtime errors
Nov 15 05:24:09 <godzirra> No, I'm not even getting to that point.
Nov 15 05:24:54 <synap> have you read the error ? ;)
Nov 15 05:25:05 <godzirra> Yes, but I don't understand it..
Nov 15 05:25:45 <godzirra> And i'm not sure why it wouldn't be applicable...
Nov 15 05:25:47 <synap> remove the current import
Nov 15 05:25:50 <synap> and import
Nov 15 05:25:50 <synap> import android.view.View.OnClickListener;
Nov 15 05:25:55 <synap> import android.content.DialogInterface.OnClickListener; remove that one
Nov 15 05:26:04 <godzirra> ok.
Nov 15 05:26:14 <synap> you are pulling the wrong OnClickListener
Nov 15 05:26:23 <godzirra> Doh.
Nov 15 05:26:37 <godzirra> I looked on the android page to see if there was a different one and apparntly I missed it.
Nov 15 05:26:42 <godzirra> I'm still getting used to java, eclipse, and android. =p
Nov 15 05:26:48 <synap> that is ok ;)
Nov 15 05:26:59 <synap> I haven't done Java for the past year
Nov 15 05:27:14 <godzirra> Hrm, that fixed the first error...
Nov 15 05:27:29 <synap> I dived into android a bit earlier this week, platform looks really awesome (I developer (professionaly) for pocketpc/smartphones and palm)
Nov 15 05:27:41 <synap> what is the other error
Nov 15 05:28:14 <godzirra> The type new View.OnClickListener(){} must implement the inherited abstract method View.OnClickListener.onClick(View)
Nov 15 05:28:17 <godzirra> Is the first oen.
Nov 15 05:28:17 <godzirra> one.
Nov 15 05:28:37 <godzirra> The second one is "View can not be resolved to a type"
Nov 15 05:28:54 <synap> ah ok
Nov 15 05:29:19 <synap> import android.view.View;
Nov 15 05:29:20 <godzirra> synap: Nice.  I'm mostly a perl guy.  I run the server for a couple pocketpc/smartphone/palm developers. :)
Nov 15 05:29:31 <synap> also, in eclipse you can auto import
Nov 15 05:29:35 <godzirra> Bah... that was it?
Nov 15 05:29:38 <godzirra> how do I auto import?
Nov 15 05:29:40 <synap> using the symbol in front of the error line
Nov 15 05:29:47 <synap> you click on it, it'll give a set of options
Nov 15 05:29:55 <synap> so you can select the right import
Nov 15 05:30:07 <godzirra> ah, ok.
Nov 15 05:30:52 <synap> anyway, you'll learn by playing with it
Nov 15 05:30:56 <godzirra> Hrm..  it doesnt give me an option to import.
Nov 15 05:30:58 <godzirra> i'm definitely learning.
Nov 15 05:31:05 <synap> hmms
Nov 15 05:31:08 <godzirra> Heh... now when I click my search button, my app closes.  Not sure why. :)
Nov 15 05:31:18 <godzirra> Thats ok, i've moved past my current hurdle.  I'll play some more.
Nov 15 05:31:32 <synap>             finish();
Nov 15 05:31:33 <synap> that is why
Nov 15 05:31:40 <godzirra> Oh.  woops.
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>         public void onClick(View main)
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>         {
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>             // To send a result, simply call setResult() before your
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>             // activity is finished.
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>             setResult(RESULT_OK, "Corky!");
Nov 15 05:31:40 <synap>             finish();
Nov 15 05:31:42 <synap>         }
Nov 15 05:31:44 <synap>  
Nov 15 05:31:45 <godzirra> Teach me to cut and paste from the doc.
Nov 15 05:31:47 <synap> the handler is all about quiting the app
Nov 15 05:32:33 <godzirra> When you setResult, what exactly does that set a result for?
Nov 15 05:32:54 <synap> I think the application quit status
Nov 15 05:33:08 <synap> so applications launching other applications can get notification of whatever happened
Nov 15 05:33:19 <synap> I assume something like this
Nov 15 05:33:24 <synap> to be sure, read the api docs
Nov 15 05:33:27 <godzirra> Ok.  So now I need to figure out how to do something, then get it to a screen. :)
Nov 15 05:33:43 <godzirra> Not bad for an hour and minimal java knowledge.  ;)
Nov 15 05:33:49 <synap> indeed
Nov 15 05:34:02 <synap> well it's really a fun platform to play with android
Nov 15 05:34:05 <synap> I have high hopes for it
Nov 15 05:34:21 <synap> I developer for many platforms, and most of them are really not that fun to work with
Nov 15 05:34:30 <godzirra> I'm mostly a perl geek.
Nov 15 05:34:40 <godzirra> Its kind of cool to see something running on an emulator.
Nov 15 05:34:40 <synap> I don't know perl ;(
Nov 15 05:34:49 <godzirra> Its easy to pick up, hard to get really good at. ;)
Nov 15 05:34:51 <godzirra> imho
Nov 15 05:34:59 <synap> yeah so I've heard
Nov 15 05:35:07 <godzirra> I started out as a server admin though, so I never picked up any "real" programming languages.
Nov 15 05:35:15 <godzirra> I know just enough C to be dangerous.
Nov 15 05:35:19 <synap> a language is real when you can write programs it
Nov 15 05:35:36 <godzirra> Yeah, I know.  All my comp sci geeks friends tease me about not knowing rael languages though. ;)
Nov 15 05:35:40 <godzirra> *rael
Nov 15 05:35:42 <godzirra> *real... sheesh
Nov 15 05:36:06 <synap> your comp sci geek friends shouldn't be ego-tripping themself ;)
Nov 15 05:36:39 <synap> the last thing that gets 'status' or 'respect' from me is how many real computer languages you know ;)
Nov 15 05:36:52 <godzirra> Its all good.  I tell them to go figure out how to make a web app in C. ;)
Nov 15 05:37:04 <godzirra> Its all in good fun.
Nov 15 05:37:12 <synap> besides, C really isn't a great choice for writing applications
Nov 15 05:37:19 <synap> neither is C++
Nov 15 05:37:33 <synap> in my opinion that is ;)
Nov 15 05:37:34 <godzirra> The client programmer at work was thrilled when he told me yesterday "I'm glad I'm not a server admin".  I tell him at least 3 times a week "I'm glad I'm not a client developer" :)
Nov 15 05:37:42 <synap> hehehe
Nov 15 05:37:58 <synap> I like writing software ;)
Nov 15 05:38:03 <godzirra> So you've played around with android a bit?
Nov 15 05:38:12 <synap> yeah just a bit, plan to play around with it more
Nov 15 05:38:18 <synap> don't have a lot of spare time
Nov 15 05:38:22 <godzirra> Is there a way to read external files?  Or does everythign have to be packed with the ... what is it?  .ask?
Nov 15 05:38:25 <synap> and when I have spare time I prefer to do other things
Nov 15 05:38:28 <godzirra> I can't remember the extension.
Nov 15 05:38:34 <godzirra> synap: I hear you.
Nov 15 05:38:38 <synap> no idea, I think you can read external files
Nov 15 05:38:51 <godzirra> Ok.  Was just curious if you knew offhand.  I'll play with it some more.
Nov 15 05:39:13 <synap> (I am a company owner, so there goes all free time ;), traded for different kinds of free(dom) tho ;)
Nov 15 05:39:26 <godzirra> Hehe
Nov 15 05:39:36 <godzirra> I'm not the owner of a company. I'm just a plebe.
Nov 15 05:39:42 <synap> a what ?
Nov 15 05:39:46 <godzirra> heh
Nov 15 05:39:52 <synap> English is not my native language ;)
Nov 15 05:40:10 <godzirra> Ahh, ok.
Nov 15 05:40:14 <godzirra> plebian:  1533 (n.), 1566 (adj.), from L. plebius "of the common people," from plebes "the common people"
Nov 15 05:40:31 <godzirra> You're doing pretty well.  I wouldn't have known had you not told me.
Nov 15 05:40:39 <synap> ah, that way, actually the Dutch word is plebs so that is quite close.
Nov 15 05:40:43 <godzirra> Hehe
Nov 15 05:40:57 <godzirra> Anyways, i'm off to bed.  Thanks very much for the help.
Nov 15 05:40:59 <synap> Anyway, I am planning to get up early today. Want to get a lot of work done
Nov 15 05:41:09 <godzirra> Hehe, same here.  I'm in the states, so its already past my bedtime.
Nov 15 05:41:11 <synap> it's 06:41 in the morning here ;)
Nov 15 05:41:11 <godzirra> Take care!
Nov 15 05:41:16 <synap> Cheers, take care
Nov 15 05:41:17 <synap> np for helping
Nov 15 06:00:18 * rwhitby announces that www.android-internals.org is up and running.
Nov 15 06:02:48 * CM takes a look
Nov 15 06:03:57 <CM> rwhitby: Their android logo and text is probably trademarked, but one could make something similar :)
Nov 15 06:11:20 <don-o> rwhitby: nice doorbell logo
Nov 15 06:11:56 <rwhitby> I was looking for a picture of the internals of a really old phone.
Nov 15 06:12:05 <rwhitby> if anyone has one, please let me know.
Nov 15 06:12:09 <don-o> oh
Nov 15 06:12:14 <don-o> how old is really old
Nov 15 06:13:09 <don-o> rwhitby: http://ca.geocities.com/mstudi@rogers.com/retro.html (second image down)
Nov 15 06:14:08 <rwhitby> do you have rights to that image?
Nov 15 06:14:26 <don-o> rwhitby: i just found it in a google image search. ask the page owner :)
Nov 15 06:15:06 <don-o> his email address is not too hard to find :)
Nov 15 06:19:29 <tlockney> don-o: you started playing around with android at all yet?
Nov 15 06:20:25 <tlockney> maybe we do need to start an android.pdx group ;~)
Nov 15 06:39:59 <CM> rwhitby: I was thinking something along this line (But not done in paint, and not stealing the official logo) http://www.acc.umu.se/~cm/android_robot_internals_example.png
Nov 15 06:41:18 <rwhitby> I was thinking something with doors in the chest opened up
Nov 15 06:41:48 <CM> rwhitby: Yes, and you see the internals. Just couldn't draw that here ;)
Nov 15 06:44:27 <don-o> tlockney: ive been playing with it a bit.
Nov 15 06:44:48 <don-o> tlockney: reading mostly. i want to come up with a good (and quick) multi-user app idea
Nov 15 06:53:31 <tlockney> don-o: I hear ya... my problem is too many ideas ;~)
Nov 15 07:41:21 <xcess> Hi, Can anybody tell me what easyeclipse java distribution and version to use for playing with android? Here is the url for the download page.
Nov 15 07:43:50 <CM> xcess: I think that can be found in the android docs; http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html
Nov 15 07:44:25 <tlockney> if you specifically want to use easyeclipse, I believe any of the distributions for java should work
Nov 15 07:45:12 <tlockney> you just need an eclipse install that includes the JDT (java development tools), which should be part of all of those
Nov 15 07:46:06 <xcess> tlockney, is there any better alternative to easyeclipse?
Nov 15 07:46:15 <tlockney> but really you could just use a basic eclipse install, you don't need all the extra stuff easyeclipse installs
Nov 15 07:46:43 <rustre> hello people
Nov 15 07:51:22 <CM> xcess: I agree with tlockney, install the Sun SDK 1.6 and the standard eclipse :)
Nov 15 07:55:14 <xcess> thanks a lot everybody
Nov 15 08:34:00 <Bacta> Wow lots of people, so are Android apps coded in Java?
Nov 15 08:35:27 <cutmasta> Bacta, yes
Nov 15 08:35:38 <cutmasta> see website for details
Nov 15 08:40:54 <[AD]Turbo> hi there
Nov 15 08:41:07 <jeddy3> [AD]Turbo, hi :)
Nov 15 08:43:52 <[AD]Turbo> ciao jeddy3
Nov 15 09:13:28 <davidw> 'morning
Nov 15 09:13:34 <davidw> from snowy Innsbruck...BRRRR
Nov 15 09:13:54 <cutmasta> morning
Nov 15 09:14:06 <cutmasta> from snowy olpe:)
Nov 15 09:52:45 <Lede> good morning
Nov 15 09:52:53 <zoolooc> good morning
Nov 15 10:49:36 <jeddy3> so...how long before we can try andoid on neo1973? ;)
Nov 15 10:50:39 <cutmasta> hehe
Nov 15 11:04:39 <Lede> i'm starting to understand android, yay
Nov 15 11:09:24 <meus> Lede: then write an article :)
Nov 15 11:13:40 <davidw> I'm waiting for job ads to start coming out
Nov 15 11:13:49 <davidw> "seeking android developer with minimum 2 years experience"
Nov 15 11:15:06 <Lede> meus: sure
Nov 15 11:15:25 <meus> davidw: haha :)
Nov 15 11:39:48 <illustir> i cannot create an Android project in Eclipse, i get a blank error message
Nov 15 11:40:28 <cutmasta> illustir, fill out all fields correctly
Nov 15 11:40:50 <cutmasta> do you have the package field filled out in "package style" like com.mypackage.bla
Nov 15 11:41:52 <illustir> ah it was not very clear that those were compulsory fields or what to put there
Nov 15 11:41:57 <illustir> but now it works, thanks!
Nov 15 11:42:08 <cutmasta> yw
Nov 15 12:13:14 <BenO> So.... has anyone ported doom to it yet? [Oblig.]
Nov 15 12:13:44 <CM> BenO: Didn't you see the quake demo in the youtube videos?
Nov 15 12:13:58 <BenO> But seriously, what do people think of the SDK/architecture?
Nov 15 12:14:16 <BenO> CM, Yeah, but the quote is 'can it play Doom' ;)
Nov 15 12:14:41 <CM> Hehe, ok. I'll imagine a beowulf cluster instead.. :P
Nov 15 12:14:49 <BenO> Or am I too old, and has it become 'Can it play Quake?'...
Nov 15 12:15:11 <CM> I think so, when even your phone is fast enough to run it
Nov 15 12:16:09 <BenO> The way that the individual applications have been made to be developed in that fragmented 'federation' of components intrigues me. Has anyone played with how the security permissions/datastore parts work?
Nov 15 12:17:50 * BenO is planning on developing a CalDAV client for a datastore as a first step
Nov 15 12:21:57 <CM> BenO: I'd say it's unusually quiet here right now
Nov 15 12:22:40 <BenO> So it's not just the prize money for good ideas that is keeping everyone tightlipped? ;)
Nov 15 12:23:14 <BenO> tbh, if I get an application I want on a OS that's free on hardware I choose, I'll be happy. If I have to write that app myself, so be it :)
Nov 15 12:25:35 <CM> BenO: Write it for OpenMoko maybe? ;)
Nov 15 12:26:37 <BenO> I did consider it, but I think it was the price of the dev kit that put me off.... and the fact that at the time, the software stacks dealing with the phone parts (GSM,etc) weren't ready
Nov 15 12:27:49 <BenO> Not that the phone stacks for Android functions any better to my knowledge. I've only seen the emulator, and I know that doesn't make phonecalls :)
Nov 15 12:28:40 <BenO> Anyone know what state the Android basic phone drivers are in? Voice, data, etc?
Nov 15 12:32:44 <CM> I don't think we'll know that for quite a while
Nov 15 12:33:19 <CM> BenO: You mean the price of the phone? The "dev kit" is free, but not as slick and easy to use as Androids
Nov 15 12:33:28 <CM> I really like the Eclipse plugin
Nov 15 12:34:01 <rwhitby> I think the prize money is going to hinder the free flowing of open source applications for the Android platform.
Nov 15 12:35:50 <BenO> rwhitby, That's my fear as well. Too many greedy people.... They should have said they were going to have an event/t-shirts to celebrate devs.
Nov 15 12:36:30 <BenO> IMO Quite a few OS conferences/meetings function due to the provision of free food :)
Nov 15 12:37:06 <BenO> CM, I mean the hardware kit. I was also put off by the fact that the actual hardware may change before the consumer release
Nov 15 12:37:28 <BenO> CM, But I did look long and hard at OpenMoko, but that was some months back
Nov 15 12:38:33 <gpolo> i don't think the prize will hinder the open source development for android
Nov 15 12:38:36 <rwhitby> BenO: the hardware *will* change before the consumer release
Nov 15 12:38:41 <BenO> The Eclipse plugin is very flash, isn't it :) Makes getting going with a newish platform that much easier.
Nov 15 12:38:43 <gpolo> but I think it being closed for now will
Nov 15 12:39:16 <gpolo> BenO: the emulator you mean ?
Nov 15 12:40:23 <rwhitby> I wonder whether Java developers are open source types in general.  For example, in general, developers for the Win32 platform are not open sourcers - they seem to do freeware and shareware but not share the source.
Nov 15 12:40:51 <BenO> gpolo, The whole deal. The way that a lot of boilerplate work is done for you, the application packaging seems to be easy, and the emulator being able to be easily summoned by Eclipse
Nov 15 12:40:58 <gpolo> most people on win32 doesn't really care about that anyway, rwhitby
Nov 15 12:41:13 <Stephmw> rwhitby: well, you probably have to segment it a bit more, server/client devs will behave differently
Nov 15 12:41:16 <gpolo> BenO: it just executs tools/emulator for you
Nov 15 12:41:21 <gpolo> executes*
Nov 15 12:41:25 <rwhitby> gpolo: that's exactly what I mean.
Nov 15 12:42:29 <BenO> gpolo, I know, but it means that the learning curve for a newbie is that much more gentle. It is not completely necessary to learn how to correctly use those tools to get started with application building
Nov 15 12:42:40 <gpolo> right
Nov 15 12:43:04 <gpolo> the android api seems good indeed
Nov 15 12:43:10 <rwhitby> why is it that people developing on win32 in general don't care about open source?  There are plenty of open source development tools for win32 (cygwin, etc), but the people who use them don't seem to ever want to share their own source.  Quite different from the crowd that develops on Linux.
Nov 15 12:43:13 <gpolo> i just dislike it being java
Nov 15 12:43:22 <BenO> gpolo, Agreed :)
Nov 15 12:43:53 <Stephmw> rwhitby: win32 forces you to make so many embarassing hacks maybe?
Nov 15 12:44:02 <Stephmw> rwhitby: I dunno - I've been in both camps
Nov 15 12:44:03 <gpolo> makes sense
Nov 15 12:44:05 <gpolo> win32 api is so ugly
Nov 15 12:44:26 <Stephmw> rwhitby: and maybe it's the state of the ecosystem... more open source generates more open source
Nov 15 12:44:34 <Stephmw> rwhitby: closed source makes everything more closed
Nov 15 12:44:35 <BenO> rwhitby, Maybe Win32 people work with systems and organisations that actually put value in things remaining secret and so that attitude bleeds over?
Nov 15 12:44:58 <gpolo> but all that is not really in the scope of these prizes
Nov 15 12:45:13 <rwhitby> BenO: perhaps you're right.
Nov 15 12:45:22 <gpolo> actually I believe it enforces the apps being closed-source
Nov 15 12:45:46 <rwhitby> gpolo: why?
Nov 15 12:46:15 <Stephmw> rwhitby: my philosophy... Monkey See, Monkey Do
Nov 15 12:46:32 <gpolo> rwhitby: from what I've read from the faq, it looks like that
Nov 15 12:47:00 <rwhitby> gpolo: you're saying that the competition rules require entries to be closed source?
Nov 15 12:47:07 <gpolo> no
Nov 15 12:47:12 <gpolo> i said they seem to enforce
Nov 15 12:47:29 <rwhitby> in what way?
Nov 15 12:47:42 <gpolo> you can use any license for the app
Nov 15 12:48:02 <BenO> In the spirit of Win32 developing, first one to make Clippy wins! 'It looks like you are trying to make a phone call...'
Nov 15 12:48:19 <BenO> gpolo, Really? I haven't checked..... a bit dissapointing then
Nov 15 12:48:38 <gpolo> "Developers retain all intellectual property and other rights to their applications while granting Google a license to evaluate and test the application for purposes of the Challenge as well as a license to display the application to promote the Android platform."
Nov 15 12:48:57 <gpolo> the Terms and Conditions aren't available yet
Nov 15 12:49:04 <BenO> Ah buggrit...
Nov 15 12:49:05 <rwhitby> gpolo: I don't believe that clause affects open or closed sourceness of the entry.
Nov 15 12:49:14 <gpolo> it doesnt affect
Nov 15 12:49:20 <gpolo> but it doesnt encourage open source either
Nov 15 12:49:27 <gpolo> it is up to you to decide
Nov 15 12:49:49 <rwhitby> ah, ok.  You're saying that there is no incentive in the competition rules for an entry to be open source.
Nov 15 12:49:57 <gpolo> exactly
Nov 15 12:50:06 <rwhitby> I fully agree with that statement.
Nov 15 12:50:10 <gpolo> in fact I believe many small companies are really interested in winning 300k
Nov 15 12:50:17 <gpolo> and will keep it closed source
Nov 15 12:50:19 <gpolo> and sell later
Nov 15 12:50:21 <gpolo> and win even more
Nov 15 12:50:26 <rwhitby> that's exactly the point I started with :-)
Nov 15 12:50:42 <gpolo> ah ;)
Nov 15 12:50:42 <Stephmw> gpolo: hey, that 300k is much easier to attain than the various research grants out there :)
Nov 15 12:50:59 <rwhitby> "I think the prize money is going to hinder the free flowing of open source applications for the Android platform."
Nov 15 12:51:02 <BenO> Especially if they block access to the individual components of their app, like the 'facebook friends' store or something
Nov 15 12:51:18 <BenO> as a way for them to profit from that connection
Nov 15 12:51:40 <gpolo> Stephmw: sure thing
Nov 15 12:51:58 <rwhitby> gpolo: I also think the prize money is driving all the "me too" forums (or maybe that's just for the adsense revenue)
Nov 15 12:52:18 <gpolo> me too going to participate ?
Nov 15 12:52:53 <rwhitby> "me too" create a forum so I can get lots of developers on it and get ideas for prize money worthy entries.
Nov 15 12:53:02 <gpolo> ah
Nov 15 12:53:24 <rwhitby> no, on second thought I think it's just the adsense revenue driving that.
Nov 15 12:53:31 <Lede> rwhitby: the discussion group is getting spammed with those types of forums
Nov 15 12:53:43 <rwhitby> Lede: that's exactly what I mean.
Nov 15 12:54:03 <gpolo> i haven't look at dicussion group yet
Nov 15 12:54:06 <gpolo> looked*
Nov 15 12:55:10 * rwhitby created www.android-internals.org for the free flowing on information without advertising or pressure to win prize money, and I'm letting people find it by word of mouth rather than spamming developer discussion groups.  (although I guess I've just spammed this IRC channel, haven't I :-)
Nov 15 12:55:38 <Lede> yes, twice
Nov 15 12:56:10 <Stephmw> hahaha
Nov 15 12:56:12 <rwhitby> gpolo: you're not missing anything.  and the google developer advocates here assured me that any announcements will go to the official google blog, so you won't miss them if you just subscribe to that.
Nov 15 12:56:17 <BenO> Hmm I think I would like to replace the disparate messaging routes with a single app, one that picks a route based on your targets contact details - email, sms, or even irc perhaps....
Nov 15 12:56:18 <rwhitby> Lede: touche :-)
Nov 15 12:56:35 <Stephmw> that 2nd time was useful - I hadn't seen the first :)
Nov 15 12:56:41 <Stephmw> bit sluggish
Nov 15 12:56:47 <Stephmw> lots of redirections
Nov 15 12:57:06 <CM> Stephmw: Guess you missed the "spamming" in #openmoko too then ;)
Nov 15 12:57:25 <CM> Would be nice to try android on the Neo
Nov 15 12:57:29 <gpolo> what about dalvik domains ?
Nov 15 12:57:35 <gpolo> no one going to register ?
Nov 15 12:57:47 <Stephmw> CM: yeah, I did :(
Nov 15 12:58:00 <Stephmw> CM: I'm looking forward to playing with it on Xora's C860 :)
Nov 15 12:58:50 <rwhitby> CM: damn, you've seen right through my nefarious plans ;-)
Nov 15 12:59:00 <CM> Hehe
Nov 15 12:59:14 <rwhitby> Now I'll never win that prize money or get rich from adsense!
Nov 15 12:59:34 <bengl> rwhitby: i've got a language to add to your DalvikVM languages page
Nov 15 12:59:41 <rwhitby> bengl: please do
Nov 15 12:59:53 <bengl> once i finishing testing it, etc.
Nov 15 13:00:01 <bengl> (brainfuck)
Nov 15 13:00:06 <rwhitby> (BTW, it's "our" DalvikVM languages page, not mine)
Nov 15 13:01:17 <Stephmw> hmmm, nice summary, http://www.javalobby.org/nl/archive/jlnews_20071113o.html
Nov 15 13:05:07 <rwhitby> Stephmw: yeah, good article.
Nov 15 13:06:18 <gpolo> it should be possible to use jython
Nov 15 13:06:25 <Stephmw> rwhitby: so as I was saying in #OM, the google guy at FOM really just spoke from the spec sheet and did his 8min demo (good PR, bad programming example)
Nov 15 13:06:36 <gpolo> since it can create java bytecode and dx converts that to dalvik's bytecode
Nov 15 13:07:02 <Stephmw> rwhitby: only one thing came out that wasn't clear elsewhere: MIDP+etc is expected to be provided by 3rd parties (OEM/Operator)
Nov 15 13:08:22 <rwhitby> night all
Nov 15 13:08:42 <Stephmw> cheerio
Nov 15 13:09:40 <BenO> Just read that javalobby article.... that guy is definitely too far into java. He lists SOAP as a possible inter-process communication method. I know Java people love their overkill, but seriously...
Nov 15 13:16:56 <davidw> ehhehe
Nov 15 13:18:52 <BenO> "When your favourite tool is a bludgeoning heavyweight hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail" .... bloody devs using SOAP for everything... grumble grumble
Nov 15 13:20:09 * ledil is still waiting for a python sdk ;)
Nov 15 13:21:22 <Lede> are there plans for it then?
Nov 15 13:21:39 <Stephmw> BenO: fair point
Nov 15 13:21:47 <Stephmw> BenO: how's the rest of the article?
Nov 15 13:22:02 <gpolo> very very unlikely to have a python sdk
Nov 15 13:22:17 <gpolo> first because dalvik is not open source yet
Nov 15 13:22:33 <gpolo> second it is not secure for a cell phone
Nov 15 13:22:43 <davidw> and because people spend too much time with their 'jibbah jabbah' rather than working on it?
Nov 15 13:22:46 <ledil> why should python not be secure ?
Nov 15 13:22:49 <gpolo> someone would have to come up with a sandboxed python
Nov 15 13:23:23 <BenO> Stephmw, pretty fair, but I have not looked at Android in detail yet to make much of a comment. I am currently working with a few systems that irritate me where, well, lets just say SOAP is used when it's not needed :)
Nov 15 13:24:01 * Stephmw throws a 15MB xml file to describe a bitmap BenO's way
Nov 15 13:24:13 <ScaredyCat> yeah, but that doesn;t include students... they need soap , lots of it too
Nov 15 13:24:28 <ledil> I see the problem with a java sdk that you must invest to much time to create software. Ive spend some years to code programs for symbian and after they have introducted python for S60 I need only the half time to code a program.
Nov 15 13:24:42 <ledil> So I see a big advantage also for google to release a python sdk, to make development faster!
Nov 15 13:24:56 <gpolo> java is tooooo verbose
Nov 15 13:25:07 <ledil> thats the point
Nov 15 13:25:25 <ledil> and that is also the point that I will not start coding until ive seen a python sdk ;)
Nov 15 13:25:29 <gpolo> i would like to see python being used there
Nov 15 13:25:32 <gpolo> but it is unlikely for now
Nov 15 13:25:45 <CM> Stephmw: I heard some guys here at Volvo complain over their Simplified Chinese car instruction books being 10 gb xml-files that are converted to pdf files before going to print...
Nov 15 13:25:50 <gpolo> like I said earlier, you could give a try to jython
Nov 15 13:25:53 <BenO> Stephmw, One of the complete SOAP calls is to get a list of files per object! There is a RESTful way to get it, but the response doesn't include file size :(
Nov 15 13:25:59 <gpolo> and let dx convert the bytecode to dalvik
Nov 15 13:26:30 <gpolo> but you wouldn't be using all the "special" features that android's api gives you
Nov 15 13:26:45 <ledil> yes
Nov 15 13:26:56 <gpolo> and python will run arbitrary code
Nov 15 13:26:57 <ScaredyCat> ooh, did someone just update sqlite
Nov 15 13:27:12 <CM> ScaredyCat: hrw did, in oe
Nov 15 13:27:13 <gpolo> that is why it would be good (required) to have a sandboxed python
Nov 15 13:27:19 <BenO> ScaredyCat, In android or in general
Nov 15 13:27:28 <ScaredyCat> oh crap, wrong channel
Nov 15 13:27:29 <ScaredyCat> sorry
Nov 15 13:27:31 <CM> ;)
Nov 15 13:27:40 <ledil> gpolo lets start a petition :)
Nov 15 13:27:46 <ScaredyCat> doesn;t help when eveyone is in both!
Nov 15 13:27:59 <gpolo> i remember someone doing a secure python
Nov 15 13:28:00 <gpolo> some time ago
Nov 15 13:28:14 <davidw> guido gave up on the idea
Nov 15 13:28:20 <gpolo> it wasnt guido that was doing
Nov 15 13:28:24 <gpolo> i think it was bret cannon ?
Nov 15 13:28:29 <davidw> the best languages for sandboxes are Java and Tcl
Nov 15 13:28:45 <gpolo> someone could fork python
Nov 15 13:28:50 <ledil> :)
Nov 15 13:28:51 <gpolo> and start a special one
Nov 15 13:29:18 <BenO> gpolo, Hmm secure python... I know of a i386 emu writeen in java, if we stick linux on top of that and put a python stack in there... that might just work! ;)
Nov 15 13:29:21 <ledil> I dont see any problems, just modify pypy :)
Nov 15 13:29:53 <davidw> I don't see why the python people don't just buckle down and work on jython
Nov 15 13:29:56 <gpolo> BenO: the only problem is that it will be much slower
Nov 15 13:30:18 <davidw> no one chooses python because it's the fastest thing out there
Nov 15 13:30:32 <gpolo> yes, but it if gets so slow to the point of being unusable
Nov 15 13:30:33 <gpolo> it is bad
Nov 15 13:30:34 <BenO> gpolo, I was joking! It would be cripplingly slow on a handheld :)
Nov 15 13:30:40 <gpolo> yeh ;)
Nov 15 13:30:49 <BenO> Thats if there is enough memory for it to get to that point anyway
Nov 15 13:30:54 <gpolo> heh, true
Nov 15 13:31:27 <davidw> Hecl runs fine on mobiles and it is certainly no speed daemon
Nov 15 13:31:40 <davidw> "more coding, less wanking" ;-)
Nov 15 13:31:52 <BenO> davidw, people don't work on jython because it has a silly name IMO ;) Plus, it's like, hard work or something [yes, I  am in a tired and flippant mood... scuse me]
Nov 15 13:32:15 <BenO> davidw, "more coding, less wanking" - motto of Google perhaps?
Nov 15 13:32:30 <gpolo> do no evil
Nov 15 13:32:41 <gpolo> i forgot it actually
Nov 15 13:32:47 <BenO> So have they :0
Nov 15 13:32:54 * BenO ducks
Nov 15 13:39:01 <Lede> heh
Nov 15 13:39:12 <Lede> according to wikipedia it is "Don't be evil"
Nov 15 13:39:48 <nbd> well, some people claim it is "Don't look evil"
Nov 15 13:40:06 <nbd> ;)
Nov 15 13:41:59 <Lede> "evil" is relative
Nov 15 13:45:23 <davidw> you know what, though.  Programming apps like these is a PITA.  If carriers ever start making flat rates commonplace, web apps are going to take over, just like they are for desktop apps in some areas
Nov 15 13:49:33 <ScaredyCat> more "give away enough free shit so people don't notice how truely evil you are"
Nov 15 13:50:15 <davidw> companies are usually not really good or evil, just kind of stupid and lumbering
Nov 15 13:51:16 <davidw> oh, this is cool...that guy Bartek is interested in porting microemulator to android
Nov 15 13:51:49 <Stephmw> davidw: woo! that'd make 2 j2me environments :)
Nov 15 14:55:14 <zirra-gone> So can anyone point me towards any resources that show how to read external files?
Nov 15 14:55:49 <zirra-gone> Or is it even possible?
Nov 15 14:55:52 <BenO> Define external... external to the phone? or just flat files included with the app?
Nov 15 14:56:15 <godzirra> external as in a flat file that is not part of the apps package.
Nov 15 14:56:22 <godzirra> Say, a text file on a memory card, or something like that
Nov 15 14:56:34 <godzirra> the app's package.  Rather.
Nov 15 14:57:53 <BenO> Something like: http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html or http://code.google.com/android/devel/data/files.html ?
Nov 15 14:58:17 <BenO> Probably the second one reading your response
Nov 15 14:59:30 <godzirra> Awesome, thank you.  I'll go read.
Nov 15 14:59:48 <BenO> You could also more usefully create a http://code.google.com/android/devel/data/contentproviders.html to provide the data you need, or maybe that's not the kind of data interaction you are after?
Nov 15 15:00:36 <godzirra> Well, I'm a server admin for an ebook software, and I was doing a precursory look into how hard it would be to get the software running on android.
Nov 15 15:02:11 <BenO> I'm guessing DRM will figure at some point? or can that be dispensed with?
Nov 15 15:03:38 <Stephmw> BenO: if content providers are involved, DRM will be a must for operators
Nov 15 15:03:49 <Stephmw> BenO: so..... yeah
Nov 15 15:05:12 * BenO cries a little... Open Access ftw!
Nov 15 15:10:45 <godzirra> BenO: for my software?  DRM is required sadly.  Bitch at publishers. :/
Nov 15 15:12:50 <BenO> godzirra, I get to bitch about publishers all the time; I'm building an Open Access archive for Oxford University and publishers don't like it :)
Nov 15 15:14:22 <godzirra> Hehe.  Then we shall bitch about publishers together!
Nov 15 15:14:35 <godzirra> And while I'm complaining, I'll bitch about IDPF. =p  The open source standard that sucked.
Nov 15 15:14:56 <godzirra> Hrm... is there a way to get a list of files in a location?
Nov 15 15:15:06 <godzirra> nevermind
Nov 15 15:15:09 <godzirra> api docs ftw.
Nov 15 15:15:29 <godzirra> wait... actually fileList doesn't do what I thought it did.  I think.
Nov 15 15:15:53 * godzirra goes to be confused and read more.
Nov 15 15:17:02 <godzirra> BenO: have you had to screw with IDPF at all yet?
Nov 15 15:17:11 <godzirra> its the most awesome standard ever.
Nov 15 15:17:16 <godzirra> its a zip file with xhtml and css in it =p
Nov 15 15:17:22 <godzirra> Look!  A new standard!
Nov 15 15:17:45 * BenO feels a disturbance in the format force....
Nov 15 15:17:57 * BenO as if a million repository managers cried out in pain....
Nov 15 15:18:05 <tmccrary> wdaawdaaaaaaaaaaaaawddwawdwdddddwwwaaaaa`test
Nov 15 15:18:38 <Lede> i think one just really cried out in pain
Nov 15 15:18:39 <BenO> godzirra, I have to contend with so many formats right now, I guess another new one can't kill me. Have you a url for IDPF?
Nov 15 15:19:42 <BenO> Lede, I think he was only running a test in case at some stage he had to cry out in pain :)
Nov 15 15:19:48 <godzirra> www.idpf.org
Nov 15 15:20:03 <godzirra> BenO: the best part is the "drm"
Nov 15 15:20:25 <godzirra> Its a file, inside of the zip file.  That contains the key that is used to undrm the files.
Nov 15 15:21:08 <godzirra> Sorry, sidenote (as in, relative to android ;) question...  can I pass options to the emulator from eclipse?
Nov 15 15:21:20 <BenO> That doesn't sound like the most robust drm system...
Nov 15 15:21:39 <BenO> godzirra, I'm fairly sure you can pass options of some sort to the emu
Nov 15 15:21:42 <godzirra> You think? :)
Nov 15 15:22:13 <godzirra> The only thing I can think of is that adobe did it to push "open source" while secretly making it crap in hopes that more ebook programs start using pdf. ;)
Nov 15 15:22:40 <godzirra> BenO: do you know where I'd set that?  I've used eclipse for a whole day and a half now :)
Nov 15 15:23:53 <BenO> http://code.google.com/android/reference/emulator.html#startup-options for the emu options
Nov 15 15:24:27 <BenO> http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#developingwitheclipse  and I guess you set them as you wish in the launch config
Nov 15 15:25:01 <BenO> (disclaimer: Im not on or near the computer with all the android stuff installed)
Nov 15 15:25:06 <BenO> *my computer
Nov 15 15:27:04 <godzirra> I know where to find the otpons, was curious where to find them in eclipse.  I'm reading now.  Thanks for the info. :)
Nov 15 15:27:19 <godzirra> Trying to find the launch config. ;)
Nov 15 15:27:27 <godzirra> Oh.  duh.  I knew that.
Nov 15 15:29:57 <godzirra> Hrm... i'm guessing you can't use a variable as part of an XML layout?  (Sorry for all the questions)
Nov 15 15:37:43 <gpolo> there is a drm directory at /system/data/drm btw
Nov 15 15:38:15 <godzirra> Good to know.  How do you find out the directory structure?  I'm trying to figure out how to get a list of files from the sdcard?
Nov 15 15:38:32 <gpolo> im running a shell
Nov 15 15:39:29 <Lede> you can browse the filesystem in the debugger aswell
Nov 15 15:39:55 <godzirra> Hrm, how do you run a shell or browse in the debugger?
Nov 15 15:40:01 <Lede> in ddms that is
Nov 15 15:40:08 <gpolo> there is a tool, adb
Nov 15 15:40:19 <gpolo> you use it to install packages aswell
Nov 15 15:40:46 <godzirra> I'm familiar with adb to install packages (sort of), didn't realize you could use it to connect to the emulator while it was running.
Nov 15 15:41:06 <gpolo> just adb shell
Nov 15 15:41:45 <godzirra> Got it.
Nov 15 15:41:56 <godzirra> Thanks. Learning a lot.  This is definitely a new area for me.
Nov 15 15:42:30 <Lede> if you run ddms you can browse it in the file explorer tab
Nov 15 15:42:31 <godzirra> Now if I can get my file list working I'll be set. :)
Nov 15 15:46:54 <godzirra> I'm not positive fileList() is what I need.  It says it shows all private files associated with this context's application package... is there some way to get a list of all files in X directory?
Nov 15 15:50:24 <BenO> I think that you may be sandboxed in to your local files. See http://code.google.com/android/devel/security.html for more about file permissions etc
Nov 15 15:52:03 <gpolo> uhm
Nov 15 15:52:18 <gpolo> but an app I installed has the same user/group than the ones that comes built-in
Nov 15 15:52:35 <gpolo> ah
Nov 15 15:52:40 <gpolo> I guess I looked at the wrong place, now I see
Nov 15 15:53:34 <godzirra> I think I've got it working... I just have to figure out how to get it to my screen now.  It compiles fine but I get a runtime error.
Nov 15 16:01:11 <Frederick[SE]> i just ran the NotesList application, any idea where i can find it on the emulated phone?
Nov 15 16:01:49 <cutmasta> Frederick[SE], what do you want to do?
Nov 15 16:02:13 <Frederick[SE]> well, im just starting up with android, so i loaded one of the examples, the noteslist example
Nov 15 16:02:17 <Frederick[SE]> and now i ran it in Eclipse
Nov 15 16:02:36 <Frederick[SE]> it opened a window with the phone, the emulator and well, where's the noteslist application :S
Nov 15 16:02:50 <Frederick[SE]> i just want to use the noteslist application on the emulated phone
Nov 15 16:03:02 <cutmasta> api demos
Nov 15 16:03:05 <cutmasta> is a button in the menu
Nov 15 16:04:58 <Frederick[SE]> i have API Demo's under the Applications menu
Nov 15 16:05:30 <Frederick[SE]> i open it, and my NotesList application isnt there :S
Nov 15 16:06:03 <cutmasta>  you wrote your own app and want to start it via  menu entry
Nov 15 16:06:12 <cutmasta> ?
Nov 15 16:06:19 <cutmasta> so you miss the menu entry for you app?
Nov 15 16:06:35 <Frederick[SE]> yeah, i dont see any option to run it anywhere
Nov 15 16:07:00 <cutmasta> Frederick[SE], http://www.android-portal.com/2007/11/14/custom-menu-entries-on-the-android-os/
Nov 15 16:07:31 <cutmasta> http://www.android-portal.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/android_menu.jpg
Nov 15 16:07:34 <cutmasta> like this?
Nov 15 16:08:31 <Frederick[SE]> yeah, im missing that one
Nov 15 16:08:40 <Frederick[SE]> is that your site?
Nov 15 16:08:52 <cutmasta> yap, currently just blogging
Nov 15 16:09:10 <cutmasta> adding a boad at the moment for problem disucssion
Nov 15 16:09:14 <cutmasta> adding a board at the moment for problem disucssion
Nov 15 16:09:30 <Frederick[SE]> aaah ok, nice domain name you managed to register
Nov 15 16:09:50 <cutmasta> also androidportal.com  :)
Nov 15 16:10:12 * cutmasta was drunken some days ago and registered it
Nov 15 16:11:05 <Frederick[SE]> i already have such a line in the Manifest.xml :(
Nov 15 16:22:33 <mypapit> why is my android emulator displaying KITT-style red light?
Nov 15 16:23:16 <cutmasta> its booting
Nov 15 16:23:18 <cutmasta> :)
Nov 15 16:23:50 <mypapit> ic
Nov 15 16:24:03 <mypapit> cutmasta, i thought i make a mistake or something
Nov 15 16:24:52 <BenO> It's when it gets stuck with 3 red lights that you need to worry about ;)
Nov 15 16:26:49 <mypapit> BenO, ok thanks
Nov 15 16:27:03 <mypapit> :)
Nov 15 16:27:10 <BenO> I was joking!
Nov 15 16:27:40 <BenO> (Xbox360 getting stuck with 3 red lights is when you panic!)
Nov 15 16:30:14 <mypapit> meh, i should get a newer pc
Nov 15 16:30:43 <gpolo> how do I regenerate the R.java file ?
Nov 15 16:30:47 <gpolo> without using eclipse plugin
Nov 15 16:30:52 <cutmasta> gpolo, theres a tool
Nov 15 16:30:54 <cutmasta> in the sdk
Nov 15 16:30:57 <cutmasta> which does it
Nov 15 16:30:57 <gpolo> what is it ?
Nov 15 16:31:07 <cutmasta> but i recommend you to use the clipse plugin
Nov 15 16:31:15 <cutmasta> its easier in my opinion
Nov 15 16:31:22 <cutmasta> cause of debugging and son on
Nov 15 16:31:27 <jasta> use eclim :)
Nov 15 16:31:35 <gpolo> you can just ddms to debug
Nov 15 16:32:52 <gpolo> aapt seems to be the tool I was after
Nov 15 16:51:34 <sgx___> hi all. what's the name of andriod's html+javascript engine? thanks in advance
Nov 15 16:53:27 <cutmasta> sgx___, i just know that the browser is something webkit based
Nov 15 16:54:10 <gpolo> you can download its source
Nov 15 17:00:40 <cutmasta> bye all
Nov 15 17:01:10 <davidw> eclipse? bleagh... command line + emacs
Nov 15 17:30:19 <cutmasta> re
Nov 15 17:58:30 <sgx___> thanks cutmasta
Nov 15 17:58:55 <sgx___> daviddw: how do you refactor in emacs?
Nov 15 17:59:07 <cutmasta> sgx___, ?
Nov 15 17:59:18 <cutmasta> did i miss your lines ?
Nov 15 17:59:24 <davidw> I edit the code.
Nov 15 18:00:09 <sgx___> cutmasta: about 2 hours you answer me a question about android's browser (based in web kit)
Nov 15 18:00:56 <cutmasta> sgx___, ah :) i c, sorry, i switched the pc in that time
Nov 15 18:00:58 <sgx___> davidw: if you has to change a method signature you edit all the classes that reference that method? well in eclipse I simple rename it and the refactor do it automagically
Nov 15 18:01:38 <davidw> that's handy
Nov 15 18:02:01 <davidw> I work in a lot of languages though, where that kind of thing isn't always available... and I hate all the clutter that eclipse has
Nov 15 18:02:20 <davidw> plus, my fingers know *emacs*
Nov 15 18:02:20 <sgx___> davidw: i 'm a fan of emacs too, but eclipse refactoring tools and the auto fixes of the code,... mmm... i don't touch emacs for java code anymore...
Nov 15 18:02:56 <sgx___> davidw: yes i know what you mean
Nov 15 18:02:57 <davidw> plus I don't like how it hides project type stuff
Nov 15 18:03:23 <davidw> code editing is handy, but I don't like the automagic building kinds of things that leave people without a clue when they break, or you can't build things without the tool
Nov 15 18:03:41 <Frederick[SE]> anyone have an idea why i dont see my applications on the emulated phone?
Nov 15 18:04:05 <Frederick[SE]> i have imported one of the samples, ive ran it
Nov 15 18:04:09 <Frederick[SE]> and there's nothing on the phone
Nov 15 18:04:30 <sgx___> mmm... I don't think it hides nothing... you always have access to the project directory and you can generate ant task for building without knowing ant syntax...
Nov 15 18:13:14 <guardian> evening
Nov 15 18:13:33 <tlockney> Frederick[SE]: that seems to be a common question, thsi might help: http://code.google.com/android/kb/troubleshooting.html#noapp
Nov 15 18:13:48 <Frederick[SE]> ok, ill check it out :)
Nov 15 18:21:10 <Frederick[SE]> hrmm... adb, thats new for me
Nov 15 18:28:20 <d03boy> alright. time to code
Nov 15 18:29:56 <godzirra> I can't figure out how eclipse works for debugging. :/
Nov 15 18:30:05 <d03boy> it has a "debug" button
Nov 15 18:30:14 <godzirra> I've gotten to the point where I can run the debugger.
Nov 15 18:30:15 <d03boy> then the screen will switch viws
Nov 15 18:30:19 <godzirra> I just dont understand what to do from there.
Nov 15 18:30:24 <d03boy> what are you trying to do?
Nov 15 18:30:36 <godzirra> When I run my code, i'm getting a null pointer error
Nov 15 18:30:39 <godzirra> and I'm not sure where or why.
Nov 15 18:30:41 <godzirra> I'm trying to find that out.
Nov 15 18:30:50 <d03boy> you can set a break point
Nov 15 18:30:58 <d03boy> by double-clicking on the left side of the code window
Nov 15 18:31:06 <godzirra> Right, I did that.
Nov 15 18:31:17 <d03boy> did your program execute and break there?
Nov 15 18:31:26 <godzirra> I'm not 100% sure.
Nov 15 18:31:38 <d03boy> did the simulator come up?
Nov 15 18:32:03 <godzirra> Yes, it did.  And yes it did break there.
Nov 15 18:32:05 <d03boy> *emulator
Nov 15 18:32:36 <d03boy> alright, well in teh top-right corner there is a "Variables" window
Nov 15 18:32:41 <d03boy> that is where you can get a lot of information
Nov 15 18:32:50 <d03boy> by expanding "this" you will get more values
Nov 15 18:33:01 <godzirra> Variables?  I dont see that window?
Nov 15 18:33:33 <d03boy> did you go into debug view?
Nov 15 18:33:42 <godzirra> Yes.
Nov 15 18:33:46 <godzirra> And my debug window is open
Nov 15 18:33:57 <godzirra> Does it say "Variables"?  Or am I looking for a symbol?
Nov 15 18:33:57 <d03boy> Window > Show view > Variables
Nov 15 18:34:12 <godzirra> Ah there we go.
Nov 15 18:34:34 <steve_k> i believe you can tell eclipse to break when you hit an NPE
Nov 15 18:34:40 <d03boy> if you want to step through the code, just use the "step over" or "step into" buttons
Nov 15 18:34:56 <godzirra> Step over skips the next line?  And step into executes teh next line?
Nov 15 18:35:01 <d03boy> steve_k, never tried that
Nov 15 18:35:10 <godzirra> Sorry for all the questions...  I've never really used an IDE before.
Nov 15 18:35:22 <d03boy> godzirra, if you have a line that jumps into a function, step over will just return that function, step into will go into that function
Nov 15 18:35:29 <godzirra> Ahhh ok.
Nov 15 18:36:19 <godzirra> I think I just need a good list example.  Its killing me.
Nov 15 18:39:43 <don-o> in main.xml i have a TextView. how do i get programmatic access to that object to update its text field?
Nov 15 18:41:27 <steve_k> getViewById?
Nov 15 18:42:22 <steve_k> maybe not, thought i saw that somewhere :)
Nov 15 18:47:36 <steve_k> don-o: ah, i think it is findViewById()
Nov 15 18:53:07 <godzirra> Hrm.  What is wrong with this:  List<String> items = new ArrayList<String>();  String s = "Some string"; items.add(s);   ?
Nov 15 18:53:29 <godzirra> I'm trying to base part of the code i'm writing off of the notepad tutorial, but the items.add always fails.
Nov 15 18:55:14 <steve_k> fails how?
Nov 15 18:56:13 <godzirra> A runtime exception.
Nov 15 18:56:34 <godzirra> one sec, let me get the exact error again
Nov 15 18:57:25 <godzirra> An error has occured in the process of com.google.android.hello.  java.lang.ClassCastException.
Nov 15 18:57:45 <steve_k> you sure that is the line?
Nov 15 18:57:57 <steve_k> you trying to use an ArrayAdapter?
Nov 15 19:00:26 <don-o> steve_k: thx
Nov 15 19:08:22 <Frederick[SE]> do i necessarily need to do something with ADB in order to be able to run any application? Im following the Hello Android tutorial and when i start the application the emulator boots and simply nothing happens
Nov 15 19:08:33 <Frederick[SE]> nothing of adb is mentioned in the tutorial either
Nov 15 19:26:00 <don-o> can eclipse be changed to edit XML directly? i cant stand its custom xml editor thingy
Nov 15 19:26:26 <steve_k> don-o: try right clicking the file in the package tree and "open with"
Nov 15 19:26:37 <Lede> right click and open with text editor
Nov 15 19:26:50 <Lede> steve_k types fast!
Nov 15 19:29:29 <tlockney> don-o: you can change the default file associations, too. go to window > preferences and then general > editors > file associations
Nov 15 19:31:17 <don-o> thanks al.
Nov 15 19:31:19 <don-o> all.
Nov 15 19:31:21 <don-o> much better
Nov 15 19:32:07 <Zoolooc> hello folks
Nov 15 19:32:34 <Zoolooc> is there already a gentoo ebuild for the SDK, to install it in a "managed" way ;-) ?
Nov 15 19:33:41 <Dralspire> Haven't heard anything about that yet
Nov 15 19:36:01 <the_guru_ga> I have been thinking that at some point in the not to distant futre my cell phone is going to need a firewall.  I don't see any firewall capabilities in Andriod, and no low level access availalbe to build one.  Does anyone see anything I am missing?
Nov 15 19:36:31 <Dralspire> Oh noes, your firewall == my free calling ends :( :P
Nov 15 19:37:23 <the_guru_ga> Exactly what I am concerned about. :-)
Nov 15 19:37:54 <Dralspire> Bad sport :P pay my ... um I mean ... your bill
Nov 15 19:37:57 * Dralspire giggles
Nov 15 19:38:10 <gpolo> the_guru_ga: the way the apps runs are secure enough
Nov 15 19:38:25 <Lede> the_guru_ga: they could use iptables (or whatever is currently used in linux) as a firewall
Nov 15 19:38:56 <the_guru_ga> Yeah, that was my initial thought.
Nov 15 19:39:15 <the_guru_ga> I think an app being secure is different than the network being secure.
Nov 15 19:39:55 <Dralspire> well, you could always extend the auth layer that the networks provide
Nov 15 19:41:11 <the_guru_ga> Dralspire: what do you mean by that?
Nov 15 19:42:33 <Frederick[SE]> yay, i managed to fix my problems... apparantly i was using GNU java, not sun Java
Nov 15 19:43:07 <Frederick[SE]> when you install eclipse in Ubuntu by default, there's a bug that makes eclipse use gnu java and Android doesnt like it
Nov 15 19:43:26 <Lede> it is a known bug (not really a bug)
Nov 15 19:43:50 <Lede> Frederick[SE]: http://code.google.com/android/RELEASENOTES.html
Nov 15 19:44:18 <Frederick[SE]> well, not an android bug. Couldnt find any documentation from someone else who had reported it though
Nov 15 19:45:00 <Frederick[SE]> aaaah... i guess i should read _all_ the documentation before proceeding i guess
Nov 15 20:10:02 <godzirra> steve_k: that is hte line.  And I am using ArrayAdapter.  But the line it dies on is items.add(s);
Nov 15 20:12:14 <godzirra> steve_k: I can paste the whole code if thats easier?
Nov 15 20:26:59 <[AD]Turbo> hi all
Nov 15 20:29:36 <davidw> ciao
Nov 15 20:30:06 <Al2O3> hello
Nov 15 20:30:22 <Al2O3> what tools are being explored or used for automation and testing in the android environment?
Nov 15 20:30:28 <Al2O3> any links or ideas are very welcomed.
Nov 15 20:31:20 <davidw> you could hack Hecl to do script tests I guess
Nov 15 20:33:10 <tlockney> it might be possible to script tests against the emulator UI itself, but that will be platform dependent
Nov 15 20:37:29 <godzirra> Why the heck when I debug does it keep popping up windows saying things like it can't find looper.class?
Nov 15 20:39:01 <don-o> how is the transparent process list turned off? (upper right corner of the emulator)
Nov 15 20:40:46 <erus`> hey guys, im want to switch screens from my main screen to the options screen. i think i do this by startActivity(new Intent("foo"))? what is the startard for naming intents?
Nov 15 20:41:51 <steve_k> godzirra: how are you constructing the adapter?
Nov 15 20:43:34 <don-o> Al2O3: good question.
Nov 15 20:44:27 <Al2O3> don-o: is that a 'there are none defined, or techniques being pursued?'...  I'm talking at unit level, system and integration/GUI level.
Nov 15 20:44:33 <Al2O3> anything at any level at all?
Nov 15 20:48:38 <tlockney> unit level should be possible by hooking in before the java class are converted to dex format
Nov 15 20:48:49 <tlockney> system and integration/gui are another matter
Nov 15 20:49:08 <tlockney> I wonder if Google already has something up their sleeve and if the community will come up with their own solution in the meantime
Nov 15 20:49:57 <tlockney> as I was saying before, hooking into the emulator UI would allow for GUI testing, but someone(s) will need to dig in to figure out how to access the discrete elements
Nov 15 20:50:31 <tlockney> anyway, lunchtime... more thoughts on that later :)
Nov 15 20:51:03 <erus`> i wanna change screen to edit the option for my program, what sort of Intent would i have?
Nov 15 20:57:30 <godzirra> steve_k: I've actually changed to using a list adapter, since that seems to be the preferred way... i'm still failing though :)
Nov 15 20:57:52 <don-o> main.xml has a textview, how would i get access to that object? findViewById(R.layout.main) gives me null.
Nov 15 20:58:28 <don-o> probably because main is a layout and not a view. so the question is how do i get or define the id of the TextView
Nov 15 20:58:55 <steve_k> godzirra: i did this the other day http://pastebin.com/m6429cfc2
Nov 15 20:59:56 <steve_k> probably similar to what you want... the strange part is that List<String> does not have a toArray method that simply returns an array of strings...
Nov 15 21:00:11 <steve_k> but i haven't done java for a while so i may be missing something obvious :)
Nov 15 21:00:25 <don-o> List is already an array-like class, no?
Nov 15 21:02:09 <godzirra> steve_k: thats kind of silly.  I'm new to java, so I've no idea :)
Nov 15 21:02:32 <steve_k> yes, but the ArrayAdapter<T> takes a T[] and not a List<T> :)
Nov 15 21:02:40 <godzirra> steve_k: i'm guessing I must have smoething wrong with my layout.  thats the only thing I can think of, becaus eI copied your code line for line and still had a null exception error.
Nov 15 21:02:56 <steve_k> godzirra: try commenting out the setContentView line
Nov 15 21:03:11 <steve_k> if you want to have a custom layout for  your LIstActiviry
Nov 15 21:03:13 <don-o> the answer to my earlier Q is <textview id="@+id/somename"> will autogenerate (in eclipse anyways) an R.id.somename to be used with findViewById
Nov 15 21:03:31 <steve_k> you need to have a ListView in the layout with an id of "@android:id/list"
Nov 15 21:04:20 <godzirra> Yeah, I do.
Nov 15 21:04:22 * godzirra ponders.
Nov 15 21:04:25 <godzirra> I still dont know what I'm doing wrong.
Nov 15 21:04:31 <godzirra> Let me just paste real quick.
Nov 15 21:04:38 <davidw> you guys know if it's possible to get/set widget elements using their 'xml attribute' names?
Nov 15 21:05:52 <steve_k> davidw: use findViewById to get a ref to a view by the id
Nov 15 21:06:12 <davidw> steve_k, no, I was thinking of something else:
Nov 15 21:06:15 <godzirra> http://pastebin.com/m302345f1 is my java, http://pastebin.com/m63db16a0 is my xml
Nov 15 21:06:39 <davidw> android:background  	setBackground(int)
Nov 15 21:06:47 <davidw> a lot of widget/view things have stuff like that
Nov 15 21:07:16 <davidw> it would be cool if I could do setAttribute("android:background", new Integer(0xff0000));
Nov 15 21:07:42 <steve_k> can't you just call setBackground() on the view returned by findViewById
Nov 15 21:07:43 <steve_k> ?
Nov 15 21:08:13 <davidw> well... yeah... but it involves a lot of reflection in my case
Nov 15 21:08:42 <steve_k> godzirra: that code does not work?
Nov 15 21:10:04 <godzirra> steve_k: nope.
Nov 15 21:10:37 <godzirra> java.lang.NullPointerException
Nov 15 21:10:41 <steve_k> godzirra: what does your file_list layoutlook like?
Nov 15 21:13:01 <godzirra> http://pastebin.com/m63db16a0
Nov 15 21:14:03 <godzirra> now I'm getting a java.lang.ClassException
Nov 15 21:14:10 <godzirra> Sorry, ClassCastException
Nov 15 21:18:16 <steve_k> dunno what could be wrong
Nov 15 21:18:40 * godzirra sighs.
Nov 15 21:18:49 <godzirra> I could tar the whole directory and put it somewhere if you want to look at it?
Nov 15 21:18:55 <godzirra> I've been trying to get this working for like 3 hours now :/
Nov 15 21:19:06 <steve_k> there is more than that 1 class?
Nov 15 21:19:45 <godzirra> Nope.
Nov 15 21:19:50 <godzirra> Just that 1 class and a file_list.xml
Nov 15 21:20:03 <godzirra> Is there maybe something hanging around in eclipse or something that isn't getting cleared or recompiled or something?
Nov 15 21:20:50 <godzirra> This is killing me. ;p
Nov 15 21:21:49 <steve_k> godzirra: try adding a breakpoint on the class cast exception
Nov 15 21:23:04 <steve_k> go to the debug view, click the breakpoints tab in the upper right box, then then J! button
Nov 15 21:23:22 <steve_k> add a breakpoint for ClassCastException then debug your app
Nov 15 21:23:37 <godzirra> I don't see a breakpoitns tab?
Nov 15 21:24:33 <steve_k> you in the debug perspective?
Nov 15 21:24:38 <godzirra> Yes
Nov 15 21:25:00 <godzirra> I've got debug, variables, outline, the code window, and console/tasks at teh bottom
Nov 15 21:25:11 <steve_k> Window menu -> Show View -> Breakpoints
Nov 15 21:25:17 <godzirra> Thank you
Nov 15 21:26:53 <godzirra> Ok, anytime I debug, it keeps flipping back to my eclipse and saying "Source not found.  The jar file android.jar ahs no source attachment.  You can attach teh source by clicking..."
Nov 15 21:27:10 <steve_k> well, that's cuz google has not release all the source yet :)
Nov 15 21:27:19 <godzirra> So thats normal?
Nov 15 21:28:19 <godzirra> I think it stopped at my breakpoint regardless, though I'm not sure what to do now...
Nov 15 21:29:25 <steve_k> well, what line is causing the problem?  is it your code or in android.jar?
Nov 15 21:30:48 <godzirra> In my debug window it says:  DalvikVM[localhost:8604]  .. next line says Thread[<3> Main] (Suspended (exception ClassCastException)) ..  Next it says ArrayAdapter.createViewFromResource(int, View int) line 179
Nov 15 21:31:01 <godzirra> So I think its saying its dying in ArrayAdapter?
Nov 15 21:31:42 <steve_k> i guess so?  hard to tell
Nov 15 21:31:45 <steve_k> without seeing it
Nov 15 21:33:40 <godzirra> steve_k: http://test.jomamma.com/Screenshot.png
Nov 15 21:34:54 <steve_k> which file was your file_list again?
Nov 15 21:35:08 <godzirra> file_list.xml
Nov 15 21:35:28 <godzirra> Sorry, that was ran in the FileList project (which is a direct copy of my project I'm working on with 0 changes)
Nov 15 21:35:33 <godzirra> But I get the same error on both.
Nov 15 21:35:38 <godzirra> I created a new project to see if there was any issues..
Nov 15 21:35:44 <steve_k> this is my item.xml -> http://pastebin.com/m694a003c
Nov 15 21:36:23 <erus`> o god android is a pain in the arse to develop for
Nov 15 21:36:24 <godzirra> steve_k: doesn't that break it? because you don't have a listview?
Nov 15 21:36:53 <steve_k> well there are two views involved.. the main one and the one that makes up the items in the list view
Nov 15 21:36:58 <godzirra> Crap.
Nov 15 21:37:01 <godzirra> Hrm.
Nov 15 21:37:02 <godzirra> one sec.
Nov 15 21:37:12 <steve_k> if you are using a ListActivity
Nov 15 21:37:28 <steve_k> and you don't explicitly call setContetnView(
Nov 15 21:37:29 <steve_k> )
Nov 15 21:37:30 <godzirra> but there's only one in the code?
Nov 15 21:37:32 <steve_k> it has a defaut one
Nov 15 21:37:41 <godzirra> how does it know what to use where?
Nov 15 21:37:54 <steve_k> well, the one that you specify as an agrument to the ArrayAdapter
Nov 15 21:37:58 <steve_k> R.layout.item
Nov 15 21:38:01 <steve_k> in my case
Nov 15 21:38:06 <steve_k> is the one used for each list row
Nov 15 21:39:39 <godzirra> How does it know to use the one for the list?
Nov 15 21:40:01 <godzirra> if item doesn't have the list view in it?
Nov 15 21:41:03 <steve_k> well, the list view contains the items, right?
Nov 15 21:41:28 <erus`> is there an activity/Intent like OpenFileDialog type thing that returns a file location?
Nov 15 21:41:28 <godzirra> In theory?  But your item.xml (which is what you have used in your code) doesn't contain a list view?
Nov 15 21:42:24 <steve_k> godzirra: the LIstActivity finds the list view in the "main" content view, and then it is your job to set up how that list gets filled with data
Nov 15 21:42:40 <godzirra> But you don't have a list view in your "main" content view...?
Nov 15 21:42:47 <godzirra> Lets back up a second...
Nov 15 21:42:50 <godzirra> you have item.xml
Nov 15 21:43:09 <godzirra> item.xml definitely does -not- contain a listview.
Nov 15 21:43:20 <godzirra> In your code, the only layout you refer to is item...?
Nov 15 21:43:20 <erus`> can anyone here me?
Nov 15 21:43:25 <godzirra> erus`: Yes.  I just don't know. :)
Nov 15 21:43:35 <godzirra> steve_k: is that all correct so far?
Nov 15 21:43:39 <cutmasta> hm
Nov 15 21:44:19 <steve_k> godzirra: there are two layouts in my code
Nov 15 21:44:30 <steve_k> R.layout.main and R.layout.item
Nov 15 21:45:02 <godzirra> Ahh, I missed the content view.
Nov 15 21:45:33 <godzirra> but you told me to comment out the content view?
Nov 15 21:45:52 <steve_k> godzirra: right -- if you comment it out, you get a default one from the ListActivity
Nov 15 21:46:13 <steve_k> presumably that is just a layout with a single ListView in it
Nov 15 21:46:16 <godzirra> Ah.
Nov 15 21:46:16 <godzirra> ko.
Nov 15 21:46:17 <godzirra> ok.
Nov 15 21:46:18 <steve_k> let me paste my main.xml...
Nov 15 21:46:24 <godzirra> I don't know why mine isn't working then.
Nov 15 21:46:35 <steve_k> http://pastebin.com/m7d2a3aa0
Nov 15 21:48:07 <godzirra> Yeah, but if I'm not using that it shouldnt matter. (
Nov 15 21:48:08 <godzirra> :(
Nov 15 21:48:12 <godzirra> This is frustrating.
Nov 15 21:49:06 <steve_k> what was in your list_item?
Nov 15 21:49:13 <steve_k> er file_list
Nov 15 21:49:14 <steve_k> ?
Nov 15 21:49:51 <godzirra> http://pastebin.com/m31f24d8
Nov 15 21:51:44 <steve_k> godzirra: can you simplify it to use what mine has?  just a single TextView?
Nov 15 22:02:07 <gpolo> i miss how to use ActivityGroup
Nov 15 22:16:08 <key2> hi
Nov 15 22:16:29 <key2> Is there anywhere we could find the openCORE from packet video ?
Nov 15 22:29:13 <rwhitby> morning
Nov 15 22:32:06 <Lede> rwhitby: good morning
Nov 15 22:32:33 <Lede> when you wake up i go to sleep >:3
Nov 15 22:34:43 <key2> so no one out there could tell me where the OpenCore source is located ?
Nov 15 22:51:53 <FunnyLookinHat> Anyone here know why this attribute won't work?  android:background="@drawable/blue"
Nov 15 22:52:06 <FunnyLookinHat> No matter what I add it to in my XML file it throws errors at it.
Nov 15 22:52:25 <FunnyLookinHat> heck, I'm copying a demo layout file   :)
Nov 15 22:53:32 <cutmasta> FunnyLookinHat, i also had this issue
Nov 15 22:53:40 <cutmasta> think the xml editor just shows an error
Nov 15 22:53:49 <cutmasta> you copied it from the example?
Nov 15 22:53:55 <FunnyLookinHat> Well, because it's showing the error Eclipse won't run it   : (
Nov 15 22:54:00 <cutmasta> yap
Nov 15 22:54:07 <FunnyLookinHat> Yup!  from this one    http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/res/layout/relative_layout_2.html
Nov 15 22:54:11 <cutmasta> jap
Nov 15 22:54:47 <cutmasta> no idea why, i could also did not get it runninng
Nov 15 22:55:04 <FunnyLookinHat> go figure   :)
Nov 15 22:55:44 <cutmasta> ;)
Nov 15 22:58:23 <FunnyLookinHat> Is there a way to run a program from within the android emulator without sending it to eclipse every time?
Nov 15 22:59:35 <cutmasta> FunnyLookinHat,
Nov 15 22:59:36 <cutmasta> yes
Nov 15 22:59:41 <cutmasta> add the programm to menu
Nov 15 22:59:54 <cutmasta> and start it from the menu
Nov 15 23:00:07 <cutmasta> as you do when you start the browser in it
Nov 15 23:00:32 <FunnyLookinHat> Ahh ok
Nov 15 23:00:43 <cutmasta> like this here:
Nov 15 23:00:57 <cutmasta> http://www.android-portal.com/2007/11/14/custom-menu-entries-on-the-android-os/
Nov 15 23:02:18 <FunnyLookinHat> ah sweet thanks   :)
Nov 15 23:02:26 <cutmasta> yw
Nov 15 23:08:26 <key2> are all the sourecs of Android availabe?
Nov 15 23:10:30 <cutmasta> key2, afaik they will release it in the future
Nov 15 23:11:52 <cutmasta> bye all
Nov 15 23:16:32 <key2> oh
Nov 15 23:16:42 <key2> so everything is not published yet
Nov 15 23:19:05 <FunnyLookinHat> what you're working with is technically a pre-release
Nov 15 23:19:31 <jasta> Has anyone seen jasonchen in a few days?
Nov 15 23:19:50 <d03boy> he's probably actually working today
Nov 15 23:20:55 <key2> FunnyLookinHat: and they announced a day for the release ?
Nov 15 23:21:13 <key2> FunnyLookinHat: cuz they basically published the kernel, the application, but not the library
Nov 15 23:21:26 <key2> FunnyLookinHat: and that's the part I wanted to work on
Nov 15 23:30:47 <jasta> key2: it's very disappointing, i agree.
Nov 15 23:31:09 <jasta> They're giving some excuse that makes me wonder if this plan to open-source the platform came as an afterthought.
Nov 15 23:31:59 <key2> jasta: the thing is that in the library part, for example the media part, like openCORE, it says that it can decode/encode video with codecs like h263 h264 or AMR... all of them are under patent
Nov 15 23:32:08 <key2> jasta: so I wonder how they license that
Nov 15 23:32:58 <davidw> woohoo!  basic hecl reflection working
Nov 15 23:34:43 <key2> jasta: that's why I come to think that all this part won't be released...
Nov 15 23:46:27 <davidw> hrm
Nov 15 23:46:48 <davidw> setfocusedtextcolor seems to be acting oddly...
Nov 15 23:47:39 <davidw> so does settextcolor for that matter
Nov 16 00:00:46 <FunnyLookinHat> Anyone find an example set of code for acting on button actions (onClick)?
Nov 16 00:05:02 <davidw> wow, cool, langpop.com works in the browser... it's based on some intense javascript and the canvas tag
Nov 16 00:23:01 <bengl> alright, well if anyone's interested, i've got a brainfuck interpreter working nicely on android
Nov 16 00:24:52 <nbd> bengl: now develop an api that allows brainfuck apps to integrate within the java environment ;)
Nov 16 00:26:40 * davidw has hecl calling Button methods
Nov 16 00:31:33 <d03boy> i wonder how much entry level software engineers get padi at google
Nov 16 00:32:33 <bengl> nbd: you mean so it can access the android java api?
Nov 16 00:33:56 <bengl> cause that's insane
Nov 16 00:34:17 <nagaxen> bengl: i think that was his point :)
Nov 16 00:34:53 <nbd> :)
Nov 16 00:38:13 <don-o> whats wrong with "startActivity(new Intent(Intent.CALL_ACTION));" - i get no activity found to handle action
Nov 16 00:41:48 <godzirra> steve_k: Still around?
Nov 16 00:51:46 <steve_k> godzirra: ya
Nov 16 00:51:47 <steve_k> any luck?
Nov 16 00:57:22 <don-o> answer to above: a call action needs a URI. new Intent(Intent.CALL_ACTION, new ContentURI("tel:503"))
Nov 16 00:58:03 <don-o> the thing i like about making calls from the emulator is that everyone is home :)
Nov 16 00:59:07 <godzirra> steve_k: Nah, I was hoping you had some brilliant idea by the time I got home :)
Nov 16 00:59:20 <godzirra> sadly, I've got nothing.
Nov 16 00:59:27 <steve_k> haha nah, i had to go do the work i was supposed to be doing
Nov 16 00:59:37 <godzirra> hehe
Nov 16 01:00:23 <godzirra> I'm really at a loss as to what I'm doing wrong.
Nov 16 01:01:20 <steve_k> did you simply the view you were using for the list items?
Nov 16 01:02:40 <godzirra> I havent done anything yet.  I'm booting my laptop up now.
Nov 16 01:05:31 <godzirra> simplify it how?
Nov 16 01:05:47 <godzirra> Its pretty simple now ;)
Nov 16 01:05:59 <godzirra> The listviews each just have an id, a layout_width and a lyaout_height
Nov 16 01:06:05 <godzirra> Well the one listview, and the one textview.
Nov 16 01:07:50 <don-o> godzirra: do you have an updated pastie?
Nov 16 01:07:56 <godzirra> Nope. give me one second and I will.
Nov 16 01:09:31 <godzirra> http://pastebin.com/m4cfbfed6
Nov 16 01:10:30 <godzirra> all 3 files are in that pastie, if it wasn't obvious :)
Nov 16 01:11:27 <don-o> setListAdapter(new ArrayAdapter<String>(this, R.layout.main, s.toArray(strings)));
Nov 16 01:11:33 <don-o> wouldnt that be R.layout.filelist?
Nov 16 01:12:37 <godzirra> Hmm... I'm not sure.  Let me try that.  (I'm pretty sure I've tried that before too.
Nov 16 01:13:25 <steve_k> you don't want to use R.layout.main for the list item view
Nov 16 01:13:31 <steve_k> that is the main view that contains the list
Nov 16 01:13:45 <godzirra> That still gives me the error "An error has occured in process com.google.android.hello.  java.lang.ClassException.  <Force Quit>"
Nov 16 01:13:45 <steve_k> the view you pass to the array adapter should be simple, like a single textview
Nov 16 01:13:54 <godzirra> a textview?
Nov 16 01:13:57 <godzirra> I thought I needed a listview?
Nov 16 01:14:10 <godzirra> Wait...
Nov 16 01:14:12 <steve_k> do you know HTML?
Nov 16 01:14:14 <godzirra> my main -is- a single text view.
Nov 16 01:14:17 <godzirra> Yes.
Nov 16 01:14:23 <steve_k> ok so imagine the main view as the html page
Nov 16 01:14:34 <steve_k> it has a <select> in it that defines a list
Nov 16 01:14:48 <steve_k> binding thye ArrayAdapter is for the _contents_ of that list
Nov 16 01:15:54 <godzirra> Makes sense. Sort of.  But the contents of that list go to a listview?  Or a textview?  Or...?  Something else?
Nov 16 01:17:58 <steve_k> the view you specify in that ArrayAdapter is used as the contents for each item in the list
Nov 16 01:18:17 <godzirra> ok, so it should be a textview.
Nov 16 01:18:19 <godzirra> right?
Nov 16 01:18:37 <steve_k> well, that would be the simplest thing to start with
Nov 16 01:18:49 <steve_k> i'm sure it can be more complex :)  but i'd start with that
Nov 16 01:18:54 <godzirra> And I dont need a listview xml, because I can use the default?
Nov 16 01:20:28 <godzirra> Ok, I've updated it to http://pastebin.com/m7b9740cf
Nov 16 01:20:33 <godzirra> But I still get the same error ;)
Nov 16 01:22:40 <steve_k> have you had any code run properly?
Nov 16 01:23:10 <godzirra> Yup!
Nov 16 01:23:19 <godzirra> I started with the hello world which ran fine.
Nov 16 01:23:39 <don-o> the Notepadadv1 example has a similar structure.
Nov 16 01:23:40 <godzirra> I also wrote up another one that was basically just a layout to look up phone numbers before I realized google maps had one, and it worked fine too.
Nov 16 01:23:53 <don-o> with new ArrayAdapter<String>(this, R.layout.notes_row, items);
Nov 16 01:23:55 <godzirra> don-o: Yeah, I looked at that to start with, then simpled down.
Nov 16 01:24:10 <godzirra> If I could get the debugger to stop acting wacky I think I'd be doing better. :/
Nov 16 01:26:09 <godzirra> don-o: the code i'm using now is almost (if not exactly) identical to what steve_k did.
Nov 16 01:26:14 <godzirra> I don't know what the heck I'm doing wrong.
Nov 16 01:29:56 <godzirra> I should be able (in the example I pastebinned) drop out the for loop and just do s.add("This is my string"); ?
Nov 16 01:31:55 <godzirra> steve_k: I don't understand line 38.  Why do you need to create another String[]?
Nov 16 01:35:10 <steve_k> oh that's just because of the way the LIst interface works
Nov 16 01:35:47 <godzirra> just seems odd.
Nov 16 01:35:56 <godzirra> So should s.add("Some string"); work?
Nov 16 01:36:26 <steve_k> do this
Nov 16 01:36:34 <steve_k> String[] strings = new String[]{"hello"};
Nov 16 01:36:38 <steve_k> and then just pass that to the adapter
Nov 16 01:36:42 <steve_k> setListAdapter(new ArrayAdapter<String>(this, R.layout.item, strings));
Nov 16 01:36:53 <godzirra> ok.
Nov 16 01:38:06 <don-o> where is setListAdapter defined? eclipse is choking on that for me
Nov 16 01:38:36 <godzirra> exact same error. :/
Nov 16 01:38:44 <godzirra> try ctrl+shift+o to auto import
Nov 16 01:38:46 <godzirra> sec, i'll tell you though
Nov 16 01:38:54 <godzirra> import java.util.ArrayList;
Nov 16 01:39:05 <godzirra> err
Nov 16 01:39:06 <godzirra> wait.
Nov 16 01:39:15 <godzirra> import android.widget.ArrayAdapter;
Nov 16 01:39:18 <godzirra> I think.
Nov 16 01:39:26 <steve_k> don-o: your activity needs to extend ListActivity
Nov 16 01:39:29 <don-o> ive already got that
Nov 16 01:39:31 <d03boy> yes. thats what the tutorials dont tell you
Nov 16 01:39:35 <don-o> ah
Nov 16 01:41:20 <don-o> now i get the ClassCastException in the emulator
Nov 16 01:41:24 <godzirra> wtf... same problem.
Nov 16 01:41:30 <godzirra> don-o: So its not just me!
Nov 16 01:41:33 * godzirra does the happy dance.
Nov 16 01:43:50 <godzirra> So now... what the heck are we doing wrong? :)
Nov 16 01:46:38 <duey> http://www.xradiograph.com/interference/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/programming_wrong.png
Nov 16 01:46:47 <duey> ;)
Nov 16 01:46:56 <don-o> it works now.
Nov 16 01:47:15 <godzirra> wth did you do?
Nov 16 01:47:24 <godzirra> I've been trying to figure out what was wrong for hours now
Nov 16 01:48:37 <don-o> http://pastebin.com/m47097b88
Nov 16 01:49:04 <don-o> i dropped any cruft :) like that List<String> .to_array
Nov 16 01:49:30 <godzirra> son of a...
Nov 16 01:49:42 <godzirra> Wait...
Nov 16 01:49:43 <steve_k> oh interesting you can send the list right in
Nov 16 01:49:44 <godzirra> I don't have that.
Nov 16 01:49:46 <godzirra> anymoer.
Nov 16 01:49:53 <don-o> dont send a String[]
Nov 16 01:49:59 <don-o> use the List<String> that was created.
Nov 16 01:50:01 <godzirra> Oh.
Nov 16 01:50:04 <don-o> in the new ArrayAdapter
Nov 16 01:50:14 <steve_k> didn't notice it was overloaded
Nov 16 01:50:41 <godzirra> Hrm.  i'm still doing somethign wrong.
Nov 16 01:50:57 <godzirra> So like this?  setListAdapter(new ArrayAdapter<String>(this, R.layout.file_list, s)); ?
Nov 16 01:51:39 <don-o> yeah
Nov 16 01:51:46 <godzirra> Yeah... still dying on me with the same error :(
Nov 16 01:52:11 <don-o> put back setContentView(...main)
Nov 16 01:52:25 <don-o> or just copy and paste my main method
Nov 16 01:52:34 <godzirra> Ah.
Nov 16 01:56:50 <godzirra> Hrm.
Nov 16 01:58:47 <godzirra> Sigh.  Still the same error.
Nov 16 01:58:49 <godzirra> wtfg.
Nov 16 01:59:00 <duey> clean your build?
Nov 16 01:59:59 <godzirra> how?
Nov 16 02:01:01 <duey> hmm
Nov 16 02:01:02 <duey> lol
Nov 16 02:01:04 <don-o> godzirra: how about a new pastie?
Nov 16 02:01:24 <don-o> godzirra: its some small difference that is hard to spot, no doubt.
Nov 16 02:01:27 <godzirra> don-o: Yup.
Nov 16 02:02:58 <godzirra> http://pastebin.com/d73943914
Nov 16 02:04:55 <don-o> wow that looks identical to me
Nov 16 02:05:07 <don-o> still ClassCastException?
Nov 16 02:05:31 <duey> clean the build
Nov 16 02:05:41 <godzirra> don-o: yes
Nov 16 02:05:43 <godzirra> duey: again, how? :p
Nov 16 02:05:54 <duey> in eclipse, cant remember which menu
Nov 16 02:05:57 <duey> maybe run menu?
Nov 16 02:06:11 <duey> sec ill start it up
Nov 16 02:06:49 <duey> project -> clean
Nov 16 02:06:54 <rcjsuen> godzirra: Project > Clean
Nov 16 02:06:58 <don-o> godzirra: i copy and pasted your code into my project. ran fine.
Nov 16 02:07:14 <don-o> once i renamed file_list to row
Nov 16 02:07:46 <godzirra> Then what the hell did I do wrong?
Nov 16 02:07:53 <godzirra> don-o: let me try that I guess?
Nov 16 02:07:57 <godzirra> even after cleaning it didnt make a difference.
Nov 16 02:08:15 <godzirra> Uhh, is there a rename option in eclipse and I'm just missing it?
Nov 16 02:08:24 <duey> refactor -> rename
Nov 16 02:08:34 <duey> right click on the file
Nov 16 02:08:37 <godzirra> Thank you.
Nov 16 02:09:20 <godzirra> Sigh.  Same error.
Nov 16 02:09:28 <duey> :S
Nov 16 02:12:04 <don-o> godzirra: i exported my project into http://donpark.org/godzirra.zip
Nov 16 02:12:14 <don-o> godzirra: give that a try :)
Nov 16 02:12:23 <godzirra> I was just looking at how to export into something soemone can download and try.
Nov 16 02:13:22 <godzirra> ...
Nov 16 02:13:24 <godzirra> That works.
Nov 16 02:13:38 <don-o> woot
Nov 16 02:15:40 <littleball> hello
Nov 16 02:16:37 <godzirra> ok.. why the heck does your work and mine doesnt.
Nov 16 02:16:38 <godzirra> I'm so confused.
Nov 16 02:18:51 <mypapit> littleball?
Nov 16 02:18:52 <mypapit> lol
Nov 16 02:19:04 <mypapit> i never thought you use that
Nov 16 02:19:50 <godzirra> don-o: Seriously, I can't see a difference in our code at all.
Nov 16 02:19:57 <littleball> anyone want to develop SMS related project, i can provide help for him/her. i  can help you to get free sms connectivities
Nov 16 02:20:39 * don-o shrugs
Nov 16 02:20:45 <littleball> mypapit, where are you from?
Nov 16 02:20:52 <mypapit> .sg
Nov 16 02:27:08 <godzirra> don-o: Oh well.  Its working now.  Now if I can figure out why I'm getting null pointer exceptions from my file listings I'll be ok. :p
Nov 16 02:27:32 <godzirra> Thanks for all your help.  I wish I could just figure out why the heck it didnt work for me.
Nov 16 02:27:43 <don-o> np
Nov 16 02:30:49 <godzirra> So just so I'm clear, String[] is an array of strings?
Nov 16 02:31:24 <don-o> it creates a variable that points to an array of strings
Nov 16 02:31:31 <godzirra> Got it.
Nov 16 02:31:36 <don-o> it doesnt allocate any memory
Nov 16 02:32:08 <godzirra> I wish there was a log file that I could write errors to, like in per
Nov 16 02:32:09 <godzirra> l
Nov 16 02:32:21 <duey> Log.d
Nov 16 02:32:32 <duey> android.util.Log
Nov 16 02:32:47 <duey> also you can create files
Nov 16 02:36:00 <littleball> mypapit, frank :-)
Nov 16 02:36:08 <godzirra> I think I'm trying to get a file list incorrectly.
Nov 16 02:36:57 <e1f> howcome you're not on #perl
Nov 16 02:37:12 <godzirra> elf: me?
Nov 16 02:37:24 <e1f> ya, didn't you used to hang out there
Nov 16 02:37:39 * duey joins #perl and asks a php question
Nov 16 02:37:52 <godzirra> Yeah, quite often.
Nov 16 02:37:58 <godzirra> I just haven't bothered lately.
Nov 16 02:38:13 <godzirra> I haven't had many perl questions, and I usually hang out helping while waiting for answers :)
Nov 16 02:38:33 <e1f> i see
Nov 16 02:38:45 <e1f> i didn't expect to see you on here :)
Nov 16 02:38:56 <godzirra> Hehe
Nov 16 02:39:04 <godzirra> Yeah, I've been here being a right pain.
Nov 16 02:40:10 <littleball> mypapit, this is your blog? http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/category/android
Nov 16 02:40:18 <mypapit> littleball, no
Nov 16 02:40:21 <duey> stalker
Nov 16 02:40:35 <littleball> it is good link
Nov 16 02:40:52 <mypapit> yup
Nov 16 02:41:08 <littleball> oh, you just put this link on your blog ?
Nov 16 02:41:34 <rwhitby> littleball: yes, that is my blog.
Nov 16 02:42:02 <littleball> rwhitby, it is great info. i will read. i just download andriod
Nov 16 02:42:03 <rwhitby> however, I will be putting future information like that on www.android-internals.org
Nov 16 02:42:53 <littleball> it is a bit excite to know android is so open
Nov 16 02:46:14 <duey> there is one slight problem with that though
Nov 16 02:46:26 <duey> you will get a heap of absolute crap apps
Nov 16 02:46:31 <godzirra> Hrm, I cant find where to put the emulator options in eclipse again. :/
Nov 16 02:46:32 <duey> like dashboard on osx
Nov 16 02:46:43 <duey> so many crap widgets
Nov 16 02:46:51 <duey> someone will release a "android app generator"'
Nov 16 02:47:01 <duey> and the end is nigh
Nov 16 02:47:09 <godzirra> Ah, found it!
Nov 16 02:48:00 <godzirra> YES!
Nov 16 02:48:02 * godzirra does the happy dance.
Nov 16 02:48:06 <godzirra> I got my file list from the sdcard.
Nov 16 02:48:07 <gpolo> can we estimate on how many apps will be submitted ? by march 3rd
Nov 16 02:48:15 <gpolo> any bets ?
Nov 16 02:48:19 <duey> thousands
Nov 16 02:48:24 <duey> 95% will be crap
Nov 16 02:48:49 <gpolo> and how many apps are in these 5% ?
Nov 16 02:48:55 <gpolo> (another bet)
Nov 16 02:48:55 <duey> lol i dont know
Nov 16 02:49:01 <godzirra> 40.
Nov 16 02:49:13 <godzirra> And thats optimistic. :)
Nov 16 02:49:24 <gpolo> uhm
Nov 16 02:49:28 <Al2O3> There is going to be 12-15 killer apps, and the rest will be also rans
Nov 16 02:49:30 <gpolo> so 10 crap apps win 25k ?
Nov 16 02:49:43 <duey> no
Nov 16 02:49:46 <duey> top 50
Nov 16 02:49:52 <gpolo> exactly
Nov 16 02:49:53 <gpolo> top 50
Nov 16 02:49:59 <gpolo> but assuming just 40 is worth anything
Nov 16 02:50:04 <gpolo> this leaves 10 crap apps to win 25k
Nov 16 02:50:23 <gpolo> just using the number from godzirra
Nov 16 02:51:05 <gpolo> you know.. all these cellphones around.. what killer apps they got ? i dont see them
Nov 16 02:51:10 <gpolo> i see a nice music player here on mine
Nov 16 02:51:23 <gpolo> new maps thing on new nokias, but android already got maps
Nov 16 02:51:29 <godzirra> the maps is nice.
Nov 16 02:51:36 <godzirra> But really, I don't see much being "Big" on android.
Nov 16 02:51:45 <godzirra> I see a music player, an ebook/doc reader, ... uhh...
Nov 16 02:51:47 <godzirra> ...
Nov 16 02:51:49 <godzirra> tetris?
Nov 16 02:51:50 * godzirra shrugs.
Nov 16 02:51:54 <duey> i have a secret project
Nov 16 02:51:56 <godzirra> No idea past music and ebook :)
Nov 16 02:51:59 <duey> very unique
Nov 16 02:52:03 <duey> but secret :o)
Nov 16 02:52:07 <gpolo> ;)
Nov 16 02:53:28 <gpolo> music players are going to have a lot of entries I guess
Nov 16 02:53:41 <gpolo> but I would think that all this alliance would do one themselves
Nov 16 02:53:43 <duey> yeah and IM
Nov 16 02:53:48 <duey> irc
Nov 16 02:53:49 <duey> ssh
Nov 16 02:53:56 <duey> all the standard stuff
Nov 16 02:54:12 <godzirra> Oh, IM.
Nov 16 02:54:14 <godzirra> Forgot IM.
Nov 16 02:54:26 <gpolo> i dont really get the point of doing an IM
Nov 16 02:54:27 <godzirra> IRC and SSH are nice, but the average user isn't going to care about them.
Nov 16 02:54:28 <gpolo> there is gtalk
Nov 16 02:54:36 <godzirra> gpolo: Because lots of people don't use gmail.
Nov 16 02:54:40 <godzirra> Because they're clueless? :)
Nov 16 02:54:41 <duey> there will be some youtube player
Nov 16 02:54:42 <duey> flicr
Nov 16 02:54:49 <duey> myspace poney
Nov 16 02:54:55 <gpolo> i see
Nov 16 02:54:59 <duey> facebook land
Nov 16 02:55:01 <gpolo> at least my idea didn't fall on these
Nov 16 02:55:18 <duey> i guess an imap client would be cool
Nov 16 02:55:27 <gpolo> i read that on some blog
Nov 16 02:58:03 <duey> have any expected cpu/memory specs become available?
Nov 16 02:58:17 <gpolo> get them yourself
Nov 16 02:58:22 <gpolo> start a shell and run dmesg
Nov 16 02:58:28 <duey> oh right
Nov 16 02:58:32 <duey> but thats for the emu
Nov 16 02:58:52 <gpolo> well, each vendor can make its own specs
Nov 16 02:59:03 <duey> what are smartphones usually these days?
Nov 16 02:59:05 <duey> 400mhz?
Nov 16 02:59:11 <gpolo> no, lower
Nov 16 02:59:19 <littleball> i am trying android emulator. It seems that it only allows to connect to google talk server
Nov 16 02:59:27 <littleball> and cannot connect to third party server
Nov 16 02:59:36 <godzirra> The only thing that depresses me is that Sprint probably won't ever get a google phone.
Nov 16 02:59:42 <gpolo> yeh, it is world domination
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 16 02:59:58 2007