**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 19 02:59:57 2007
Nov 19 03:11:04 <Garett> can someone explain to me, in high level detail, what it would take to have a mapview show a point that moves in real time based on the gps coordinates from the location manager?  I'm more interested in the real-time update process than anything
Nov 19 03:16:36 <rwhitby> Dralspire: the top line of your wiki repeats the fallacy that Android is the first "truly open" platform for mobile devices.  Have you not seen the Neo1973 and OpenMoko effort, the announcement of which predates the Android announcement?
Nov 19 03:16:51 <Dralspire> ok, what text do you propose?
Nov 19 03:17:15 <rwhitby> perhaps replace "the first truly" with "a"
Nov 19 03:17:22 <rwhitby> (or "an" :-)
Nov 19 03:17:54 <Dralspire> changed :D
Nov 19 03:18:32 <rwhitby> Dralspire: so I run android-internal.org wiki, and am targetting it towards the information that Google does not publish (e.g. you won't find Google APIs, or application showcases, etc on android-internals.org)
Nov 19 03:18:47 <Dralspire> Nice :-)
Nov 19 03:18:48 <rwhitby> what are you targetting androidwiki.com at?
Nov 19 03:19:26 <Dralspire> My guess is we both target the same thing, comprehensive Android info in one place. Wanna sell your domain? :P
Nov 19 03:19:34 <rwhitby> and what's your open source project background and experience (so I know whether to point people your way)?
Nov 19 03:20:04 <rwhitby> No, I don't want to target comprehensive Android info that only rehashes what Google already publishes on android-internals.org
Nov 19 03:20:13 <Dralspire> I have a background in community fansites, and I program along as a hobby
Nov 19 03:20:52 <rwhitby> My wiki covers the scope that the android-internals discussion group covers (in fact, they probably go the name of the group from there)
Nov 19 03:20:57 <duey> wiki mania
Nov 19 03:21:02 * duey setups another wiki
Nov 19 03:21:05 <Dralspire> hehe :-)
Nov 19 03:21:52 <rwhitby> Dralspire: what I'm suggesting is an agreed segregation of information along some lines of scope.
Nov 19 03:21:54 <duey> i am going to make jaaw.com
Nov 19 03:22:41 <duey> http://code.google.com/p/android/w/list
Nov 19 03:22:46 <duey> why not just use that wiki
Nov 19 03:22:50 <rwhitby> Dralspire: I run nslu2-linux.org project and wiki
Nov 19 03:23:08 <rwhitby> duey: cause only Google staff can write to that.
Nov 19 03:23:35 <Dralspire> Hehe to think that I registered androidwiki.com for a robotic topic :D
Nov 19 03:23:49 <duey> ohok
Nov 19 03:24:42 <Dralspire> lol yeah, robots interest me :-)
Nov 19 03:24:47 <duey> you should do something like this wiki : http://www.cocoadev.com/
Nov 19 03:24:55 <duey> i find that to be one of the most useful wikis ever
Nov 19 03:25:12 <Dralspire> recipes?
Nov 19 03:25:23 <duey> obv chocolate recipes
Nov 19 03:25:25 <Dralspire> hehe
Nov 19 03:25:37 <rwhitby> Dralspire: anyway, just letting you know that android-internals.org wiki is only targetted to the scope of the android-internals discussion group - feel free to point people there for that scope if you want, or try to cover it as well yourself.  I've got no commercial intent (i.e. number of subscribers or adsense views or whatever), so I'm not to fussed either way - my only concern is to try and keep information organised and categor
Nov 19 03:25:37 <rwhitby> ised well.
Nov 19 03:25:40 <Dralspire> dang, now I want hot cocoa
Nov 19 03:25:52 <duey> coffee ftw
Nov 19 03:26:11 <Dralspire> Nice one, rwhitby. I hope your site succeeds :-)
Nov 19 03:26:52 <rwhitby> Dralspire: that will be up to the community - doesn't really matter either way to me personally, I'm just providing a well-targetted site for people to use as they wish :-)
Nov 19 03:27:54 <rwhitby> (and a place for me to put pointers to the interesting tidbits that I find)
Nov 19 03:28:16 <rwhitby> Dralspire: what other sites do you run?
Nov 19 03:28:48 <Dralspire> Some of the stuff I do I write about here: http://dralspire.com/
Nov 19 03:29:10 <Nescio> Can one of you open a page for snippets?
Nov 19 03:29:17 <duey> ^^
Nov 19 03:29:21 <Dralspire> sure
Nov 19 03:29:28 <duey> wiki to complicated for snips
Nov 19 03:30:29 <Nescio> doesn't need to be a wiki... just think it'd be useful
Nov 19 03:31:40 <Dralspire> Well, the whole point of a wiki is that the users can make the pages they think are helpful. :-)
Nov 19 03:32:04 <duey> until some script kiddie comes along and deletes it all >.<
Nov 19 03:32:33 <Dralspire> Well, that's why you can restore versions as needed. :-)
Nov 19 03:40:42 <rwhitby> duey: and that's why android-internals.org does not allow anonymous edits and requires email account verification.
Nov 19 03:41:23 <rwhitby> (of course, that won't stop a determined script kiddy, but does deter most wikilink spam)
Nov 19 03:44:33 <rwhitby> Dralspire: are you the only moderator on androidwiki.com?
Nov 19 03:45:04 <Dralspire> Currently I am.
Nov 19 03:45:23 <rwhitby> (just looking at http://androidwiki.com/wiki/Special:Listusers and comparing with http://www.android-internals.org/index.php?title=Special:Listusers)
Nov 19 03:46:24 <rwhitby> do you intend to keep it that way, or are you looking for additional sysops?
Nov 19 03:46:53 <rwhitby> (no, I don't want the job - just looking to see if it will be a community-run wiki or a one-man-run wiki)
Nov 19 03:46:58 <Dralspire> I saw that on your site. Frankly, so far spamming is not a big problem, and of course we will have to grow the "administration" as the site grows, but right now we are focusing on promoting the site and developing content.
Nov 19 03:47:38 <Dralspire> Of course androidwiki.com will be community-run, it is entirely unrealistic to think this can be done alone or with a handful of people only. :-)
Nov 19 03:48:05 <rwhitby> Dralspire: oh, BTW, please don't be offended by any of my questions - I'm not out to discredit your site or anything - I'm getting a feel for whether I should recommend your site to others for non-android-internals stuff.
Nov 19 03:48:27 <Dralspire> Don't worry, I don't mind questions at all :-)
Nov 19 03:48:27 <rwhitby> (vs all the other wikis that have sprung up)
Nov 19 03:51:10 <Dralspire> yeah, there are a few, aren't there :-) I just hope that AW can do its part to push Android ahead, because frankly, I need Android for a couple applications of mine :D
Nov 19 03:51:26 <Nescio> heh
Nov 19 03:51:49 <Dralspire> Well, hey, combining any sort of GPS functionality with proper applications gotta be interesting :D
Nov 19 03:52:05 <Nescio> I totally agree
Nov 19 03:52:37 <Dralspire> 3 a.m. ring-ring ... "WHERE AM I???" ... use your phone :P
Nov 19 03:52:59 <Nescio> *ding*  ...Where you at dog?
Nov 19 03:55:42 <Dralspire> you know, if I can send you coordinates, even the ... um ... technically challenged parent can find you :D
Nov 19 03:56:21 <Nescio> meh... that's a slippery slope of privacy issues
Nov 19 03:56:35 <Dralspire> hehe well, if you send it, you can't blame others :D
Nov 19 03:56:48 <Dralspire> (as opposed to "retrieval" :D)
Nov 19 04:00:13 <Dralspire> hehe
Nov 19 04:00:16 <Nescio> is it possible to have multiple procs share the same real estate?
Nov 19 04:00:25 <Nescio> I know there is app group...
Nov 19 04:00:36 <Nescio> but, what about apps that other people have developed
Nov 19 04:00:38 <Nescio> http://www.youtube.com/v/SfFiA6m0UzM&rel=1
Nov 19 04:01:40 <Nescio> looks really great... it seems like a good fit for an android device... but so far I see Android activities as atomic functional units...
Nov 19 04:02:04 <Nescio> instead of seamless, experiences
Nov 19 04:09:29 <Nescio> lol... oops wrong video
Nov 19 04:10:04 <Nescio> http://www.youtube.com/v/EQo06jihwf8&rel=1  <-- that's the original
Nov 19 04:29:02 <steve_k_> i have a ListView bound to a cursor.. and with the mouse i can scroll beyond the bottom of the list.  Is there a way to prevent this?
Nov 19 05:36:06 <Nescio> ...quiet tonight
Nov 19 05:38:47 <Lede> it's early in the morning here :)
Nov 19 05:42:59 <Nescio> UK?
Nov 19 05:43:12 <Lede> the Netherlands
Nov 19 05:43:25 <Nescio> ah, nice :)
Nov 19 05:44:31 <Nescio> I'm in the adb shell... How can I open a file?
Nov 19 05:45:23 <Lede> cat?
Nov 19 05:45:39 <Lede> there arnt much programs :/
Nov 19 05:45:43 <Lede> not even vi
Nov 19 05:46:23 <Nescio> thanks
Nov 19 05:51:04 <diogofsr> Does Android uses Java?
Nov 19 05:53:57 <CM> Kind of
Nov 19 05:54:23 <CM> diogofsr: Take a look at http://code.google.com/android/
Nov 19 05:55:38 <diogofsr> CM: I took. Just making small conversation.
Nov 19 05:55:50 <diogofsr> CM: But as I saw it, it's Java...
Nov 19 05:56:16 <CM> Yes, but the bytecode is compiled to run on the Dalvik VM
Nov 19 05:57:26 <diogofsr> CM: Dalvik? Never heard of. I might take I look.
Nov 19 05:57:48 <diogofsr> CM: But to be a little pick, I would really enjoy if it was C.
Nov 19 05:57:54 <CM> Hehe
Nov 19 05:57:57 <diogofsr> ;-)
Nov 19 05:58:03 <CM> diogofsr: Why not OpenMoko then?
Nov 19 05:58:06 <CM> It's mostly c
Nov 19 05:58:25 <diogofsr> CM: Don't know it too.
Nov 19 05:58:42 <CM> diogofsr: http://www.openmoko.org/
Nov 19 05:58:48 <CM> Check out the wiki there
Nov 19 05:58:50 <diogofsr> CM: Entering now!
Nov 19 05:59:10 <diogofsr> Nice...
Nov 19 05:59:20 <CM> There's a #openmoko too ;)
Nov 19 06:00:01 * CM is sorry for stealing people from #android, but only the ones who ask about coding in C. ;)
Nov 19 06:00:36 <diogofsr> Man, how great is open source..
Nov 19 06:01:35 <Nescio> I miss my VS IDE, and my robust (ahm... Lazy) CTS/CLS...
Nov 19 06:02:27 <Nescio> *VS.NET
Nov 19 06:05:28 <diogofsr> Hey, this OpenMoko seems fun.
Nov 19 06:05:47 <CM> diogofsr: It is ;)
Nov 19 07:19:42 <jasta> hmm
Nov 19 07:34:04 <Nescio> Whats up jasta?
Nov 19 07:35:10 <jasta> Nescio: Not much, just a little worried about the depth of this ContentURI architecture they've put together.
Nov 19 07:35:21 <Nescio> how so?
Nov 19 07:35:23 <jasta> I'm starting to find that it would be much more flexible to just throw it away and write all the queries myself.
Nov 19 07:35:34 <Nescio> hah, ouch
Nov 19 07:35:42 <jasta> Well, for example, if you had an RSS reader, what would your content URIs look like for viewing a channel of posts?
Nov 19 07:36:05 <jasta> You'd obviously have two tables, one for holding channels (title, rss feed url) and one for holding posts (channel id, title, author, body, etc)
Nov 19 07:36:24 <jasta> and your common actions would be viewing channel lists, selecting a channel list and thus viewing a list of posts in that channel, and then finally viewing posts.
Nov 19 07:36:51 <jasta> when you view posts, you don't just want to get the data in the post table.  you also want to get the channel data to get, say, the title or image to show at the top of the post.
Nov 19 07:36:56 <jasta> so the user has context.
Nov 19 07:37:18 <jasta> but how would that fit into this URI convention?  what would the URI look like to view a list of posts, for example?
Nov 19 07:37:51 <jasta> like content://foobar/channel/{id} would return title, rss url, maybe feed image, etc.
Nov 19 07:38:00 <jasta> content://foobar/post/{id} might return post info (body, title, etc)
Nov 19 07:38:42 <jasta> but what would you use to yield all posts with a particular channel id?
Nov 19 07:38:56 <Nescio> Sorry, I haven't gotten that far into the api (reading now)
Nov 19 07:38:57 <jasta> you'd kind of have to use the content uri content://foobar/post and just filter it with a where?
Nov 19 07:39:37 <jasta> which represents a breakdown of the contenturi purpose anyway, since it's no longer abstracted.  there's an extra piece of information that must be carried along with it (channel id to filter in the where in this case)
Nov 19 07:39:47 <jasta> which fundamentally destroys the usefulness of contenturis.
Nov 19 07:45:01 <jasta> they've basically made a system that is really narrow in scope.  it doesn't play well with tables that must join to be useful.
Nov 19 07:45:11 <jasta> or at least that how it seems.
Nov 19 07:47:24 <Nescio>  content://foobar/channelID_postID/{id}    ?
Nov 19 07:47:42 <Nescio> or, am I missing the point?
Nov 19 07:47:54 <jasta> yeah, i thought about that, something like content://foobar/channelID/postID
Nov 19 07:48:09 <jasta> err
Nov 19 07:48:14 <jasta> content://foobar/post/channelID/postID
Nov 19 07:48:41 <jasta> but the problem with that is that it would "require" you specify the channelID to access a post, which sometimes you don't know, or don't care about.
Nov 19 07:49:07 <jasta> so the only real way to do it would be to have a special uri type like content://foobar/postlist/channelID and content://foobar/post/postID
Nov 19 07:49:07 <Nescio> true
Nov 19 07:49:14 <jasta> but that all just seems sloppy to me?
Nov 19 07:49:29 <jasta> i guess the whole contenturi idea feels sloppy to me.
Nov 19 07:50:10 <Nescio> it makes it more transparent... but with a kinda square-peg round hole, feel to it
Nov 19 07:50:58 <Nescio> I'd be curous what you figure out tho... :)
Nov 19 07:52:46 <jasta> i'll probably go with content://foobar/postlist/channelID being separated out that way.
Nov 19 07:52:52 <jasta> it will be easier to work with the URI_MATCHER deal.
Nov 19 07:52:59 <jasta> we'll see how it works out :)
Nov 19 07:53:07 <Nescio> gl :)
Nov 19 07:54:23 <Nescio> I'm currently lost in a maze of XML layouts... do you know if anyone has found/created a schema yet?
Nov 19 07:54:40 <jasta> no, i had a beef with those as well :)
Nov 19 07:55:33 <Nescio> yea, i saw your post on Scrolling :) -- anyother caveats I should be aware of? ;P
Nov 19 07:59:04 <jasta> Scrolling?
Nov 19 07:59:11 <jasta> i didn't post about scrolling :)
Nov 19 08:00:12 <Nescio> aye, it was the listadapter... lol, sorry - been reading all weekend and it's 1am
Nov 19 08:07:10 <jasta> Nescio: Yeah, I've been tearing in pretty good :)
Nov 19 08:07:25 <jasta> I have an app with 1300 loc right now, actually.
Nov 19 08:08:17 <Nescio> That's awesome, it's been a long time since I've looked at Java (it's amazing how .Net rots your brain) but i think I am finally getting the hang out it.
Nov 19 08:08:30 <Nescio> of it*
Nov 19 08:08:31 <jasta> i've finally beat out the NotePad app :)
Nov 19 08:08:47 <Nescio> haha
Nov 19 08:08:54 <jasta> it should blow up to about 2k loc tomorrow :)
Nov 19 08:09:22 <Nescio> Cool, well let me know if you want a beta tester ;P
Nov 19 08:09:42 <jasta> i have it on a private CVS repository atm, i will probably be moving it to a public subversion repository soon.
Nov 19 08:10:06 <Nescio> cool
Nov 19 08:10:19 <jasta> writing a simple little RSS Reader as a "proof of concept" of a fully functioning app with notifications, a background service for synchronizing feeds, etc.
Nov 19 08:10:32 <jasta> a full ContentProvider implementation and correctly utilizing intents and intent filters.
Nov 19 08:10:54 <jasta> i intend to release it as a sort of tutorial when it actually works and is more correct.
Nov 19 08:11:09 <Nescio> I'm still confused on content providers...
Nov 19 08:12:05 <Nescio> if I write an app... that just ties together several content providers... how can I guarantee they will all be available on the system?
Nov 19 08:12:20 <Nescio> ...DLL hell?
Nov 19 08:12:40 <jasta> you can't unless you package them yourself, which is a valid option.
Nov 19 08:12:52 <jasta> my hope is that someone makes a package manager :)
Nov 19 08:13:09 <jasta> so there could be a public repository of android software with dependency resolution and all.
Nov 19 08:13:29 <jasta> let users pick new software from a directory like Ubuntu's simplified APT GUI
Nov 19 08:13:56 <Nescio> that will be awesome... I buy a phone... I go online and link everything I want to install, and then d/l pop I have my fully customized device
Nov 19 08:14:04 <jasta> maybe i'll make one when the platform actually has some real packages :)
Nov 19 08:14:32 <jasta> Nescio: Yes, that is something Open Source is uniquely good at.
Nov 19 08:15:05 <jasta> For obvious reasons.  Upstream developers are easy to coerce into a sensible distribution of their software, and the applications are usually free so work well in a simple distribution system.
Nov 19 08:15:34 * Nescio sweeps his windows certs under the rug
Nov 19 08:15:36 <littleball|away> public repository of android is great like all linux distribution
Nov 19 08:15:57 <jasta> ok fine, you've twisted my arm.  i'll write it :)
Nov 19 08:16:26 <Nescio> yea... I've obviously been away from the scene too long :) but, I am intrigued
Nov 19 08:16:27 <jasta> the real pitfall of open source software is assuming that someone else will implement your good idea.
Nov 19 08:16:36 <jasta> better to just do it yourself to ensure it actually gets done, and done right.
Nov 19 08:16:45 <littleball|away> the difficulty is how to manage the repository. It cannot be too big and need to categorize properly
Nov 19 08:16:59 <jasta> littleball|away: that is not the difficult part.
Nov 19 08:17:10 <jasta> the difficult part, as with any package distribution system, is dependency resolution.
Nov 19 08:17:29 <jasta> that problem is made more difficult in this platform since you don't want the clients (cell phones) to do the dependency resolution because it is slow and awkward.
Nov 19 08:17:54 <jasta> you just want the server to say "you need this, this, and this."
Nov 19 08:18:05 <jasta> "...and you need them in this order" :)
Nov 19 08:18:21 <littleball> i think dependence checking is fine. For me, if i am android user, i will use wifi when i try to install software
Nov 19 08:18:33 <jasta> littleball: you must not have 3G available to you.
Nov 19 08:18:40 <Nescio> I can imagine the install... "This app would like to use this service, Approve / Deny?" "This app would like.....
Nov 19 08:18:54 <jasta> in the US at least, UMTS/HSDPA speeds are unreal now.  you can actually download at around 80kbytes/s.
Nov 19 08:19:20 <littleball> i have 3G. but it is not as fast as wifi
Nov 19 08:19:32 <jasta> littleball: how big are you anticipating android packages to be?
Nov 19 08:19:48 <jasta> anyway, i like this idea quite a bit.  one of you guys remember it for me.
Nov 19 08:20:06 <Nescio> haha - ok
Nov 19 08:20:10 <jasta> when the availability of real software grows for Android, it will be something worth looking at.
Nov 19 08:20:25 <jasta> i wouldn't jump the gun on a project like that though.  it will depend heavily on how the platform evolves.
Nov 19 08:20:39 <littleball> package size is not a big issue for me. I can keep it running at night. My concern is the packages must work properly and not give me extra trouble
Nov 19 08:21:08 <jasta> littleball: well that's the point of the centralized repository.  someone actually has to manage it.  and test the packages in it.
Nov 19 08:21:11 <jasta> just like Debian, Ubuntu, etc.
Nov 19 08:21:17 <jasta> it's not automatic, and that's important.
Nov 19 08:21:45 <littleball> for debian. ubuntu etc, it is fine becuase the users are more developers or engineers
Nov 19 08:21:56 <littleball> for android, the target users should include normal phone users
Nov 19 08:22:08 <jasta> Ubuntu users are not usually developers or engineers.
Nov 19 08:22:17 <jasta> My girlfriend is a Ubuntu user, for example.
Nov 19 08:22:27 <littleball> Ubuutu users does not care the disk size :-)
Nov 19 08:22:32 <jasta> She just likes how her windows "jiggle" now in Ubuntu 7.10.
Nov 19 08:22:45 <Nescio> heh
Nov 19 08:22:52 <jasta> but i digress, we are all jumping the gun.
Nov 19 08:23:14 <jasta> the difficult problems relate to the platform's evolution, specifically with regard to software deployment and management.
Nov 19 08:23:36 <jasta> and those problems can't be predicted with the information currently available.  best to wait a few months, then revisit.
Nov 19 08:23:40 <littleball> anyway, it still depends on the devices like how big the disk is etc etc. different devices could be different. But it is good idea
Nov 19 08:24:14 <Nescio> How much do you think a standard user would update thier phones... I have a feeling a lot of apps would actually spread via Word of Mouth / P2P...
Nov 19 08:24:45 <littleball> if it is a one button click, there will be huge users
Nov 19 08:25:23 <littleball> nice to provide a very simple UI like rss. click on one item and then install /or uninstall
Nov 19 08:26:03 <jasta> the UI should be akin to Ubuntu's "Add/Remove Software" tool.  It's sufficiently simple and generalized.
Nov 19 08:26:14 <littleball> ya
Nov 19 08:26:15 <jasta> Show applications in well-defined categories (Games, Productivity, etc)
Nov 19 08:26:23 <jasta> and then just list a bunch of crap with a way to search them.
Nov 19 08:26:31 <littleball> well-defned categories is very important
Nov 19 08:26:31 <jasta> Simple click to install.
Nov 19 08:26:56 <jasta> it would be hard to maintain the server repository, though.  but it is hard to maintain debian and still folks do it.
Nov 19 08:26:59 <littleball> no need to do too much. Just make simple and good one works first
Nov 19 08:26:59 <jasta> it's an important thing to do.
Nov 19 08:27:37 <littleball> if you do, i will contribute one application soon :-)
Nov 19 08:27:39 <jasta> this does have me a bit excited, though.
Nov 19 08:27:48 <jasta> we will definitely revisit :)
Nov 19 08:27:56 <jasta> but i want to go finish my stupid RSS app for now.
Nov 19 08:28:23 <littleball> you should also consider biz model. If you provide free service, you need to get fund to support. Without necessary funding, cannot go far
Nov 19 08:28:30 <Nescio> true, So... If I found cool new app, I show it to my friend.. now he wants it... Itd be nice if I could easily share a link with him that would query a repository and D/l all the required dependencies and initiate the install...
Nov 19 08:28:36 <jasta> littleball: that's rubbish.
Nov 19 08:29:03 <littleball> biz model does not necessary charge users
Nov 19 08:29:22 <jasta> there need not be a business model of any kind.  business models are a necessity to nothing.
Nov 19 08:29:38 <littleball> unless you have lots of $
Nov 19 08:29:41 <jasta> no.
Nov 19 08:30:25 <jasta> anyway, back to work.  i can't hear any more of this about business models :)
Nov 19 08:30:38 <Nescio> LoL - GL / g'night guys
Nov 19 08:31:15 <littleball> then who will help you pay hosting fee etc etc :-) it is good to have free service
Nov 19 08:31:43 <littleball> bye
Nov 19 08:31:54 <Nescio> littleball: Step 1: Get the Underpants...
Nov 19 08:31:59 <jasta> hehehe
Nov 19 08:32:08 <jasta> that actually made me laugh aloud.
Nov 19 08:32:16 <Nescio> :)
Nov 19 08:33:36 <wom-> :)
Nov 19 08:42:54 <littleball> who knows any easy way to get stock realtime data?
Nov 19 08:43:48 <Nescio> How easy?
Nov 19 08:44:06 <Nescio> Yahoo will return you a cvs via a query string...
Nov 19 08:44:18 <Nescio> 15min delay tho
Nov 19 08:44:24 <littleball> like any web portal expose API for retrieving realtime data
Nov 19 08:44:57 <Nescio> most "realtime" data (<15mins) is fee based
Nov 19 08:44:59 <littleball> i am not sure whether 15 min delay is acceptable or not
Nov 19 08:45:17 <littleball> i am thinking to do something on this based on XMPP
Nov 19 08:53:32 <Nescio> grr... I'm gonna by dying at work tomorrow, but I can't sleep
Nov 19 08:54:48 <duey> compo is only 5 months away
Nov 19 08:54:52 <duey> got to keep coding nonstop
Nov 19 08:54:55 <Nescio> littleball: How do you mean with XMPP?
Nov 19 08:54:56 <Nescio> loll
Nov 19 08:55:04 <duey> i guess its 4 acutally
Nov 19 08:55:46 <Nescio> Yea, hopefully I can get more time on this during my x-mas vac...
Nov 19 09:40:34 <guardian> morning
Nov 19 10:00:02 <Dralspire> Morning all :-)
Nov 19 10:02:33 <cutmasta> morning
Nov 19 13:27:52 <rwhitby`> So, anyone know about OpenBinder?
Nov 19 13:29:31 <tid-wave> Hi. How can I run an android app from eclipse by a keyboard shortcut ? without having to click the run button and and to select what type of application to run
Nov 19 13:37:30 <TorEinar> You can use the run button in the top toolbar to run the last application again. The Android plugin does not seem to offer a key shortcut.
Nov 19 13:37:54 <Nescio> ctrl+f11,  dn-arrow, up-arrow, enter
Nov 19 13:37:56 <Nescio> ;P
Nov 19 13:38:19 <Nescio> I don't know if there is a way to turn off the "Run as" dialog... I'm sure there is
Nov 19 13:38:45 <Nescio> ctrl-f11, does bring up the window tho
Nov 19 13:40:06 <tid-wave> heh
Nov 19 13:40:12 <tid-wave> so there is no shortcut
Nov 19 13:40:16 <tid-wave> => eclipse is borked
Nov 19 13:41:32 <TorEinar> tid-wave: That has nothing to do with Eclipse, but is a problem with the Android plugin. Eclipse itself has the shortcuts Alt-Shift-X + J to run Java applications, + A to run applets and + T to run JUnit tests, but the plugin must configure the shortcut properly for "run Android application".
Nov 19 13:42:07 <TorEinar> Here, Ctrl+F11 only starts the emulator, but fails when trying to start the activity.
Nov 19 13:42:07 <tid-wave> TorEinar: yes, you are right. thanks for the reply :)
Nov 19 13:42:58 <tid-wave> Run last configuration hasn't got any shortcut key though...
Nov 19 13:43:04 <tid-wave> which sucks
Nov 19 13:43:24 <[g2]_> rwhitby: what's OpenBinder ?
Nov 19 13:44:07 <[g2]_> this ? http://www.angryredplanet.com/~hackbod/openbinder/docs/html/main.html
Nov 19 13:45:09 <TorEinar> tid-wave: Sure, it does: Ctrl+F11, but that doesn't work with the Android plugin either. The emulator is started, the application is built and pushed to the emulator, but the emulator claims not to find the activity class. At least here on my system.
Nov 19 13:45:21 <tid-wave> oh crap
Nov 19 13:45:30 <TorEinar> Perhaps it works for you.
Nov 19 13:45:32 <tid-wave> not only on your system
Nov 19 13:45:36 <tid-wave> it's the same here
Nov 19 13:46:28 <tid-wave> is it possible to take overall the keys of the phone from an application ?
Nov 19 13:46:33 <TorEinar> But as I said, if you don't want to click through the run dialog, you can use the button in the upper toolbar. It runs the last configuration without opening the dialog.
Nov 19 13:46:55 <tid-wave> It still asks me how to run (what kind of app)
Nov 19 13:46:59 <tid-wave> and then I have to click Android application
Nov 19 13:48:15 <TorEinar> Even if you click directly on the "play button" (run last configuration) and not on the small arrow right to it, which allows you to select between the last 10 configurations or so?
Nov 19 13:48:31 <tid-wave> yep
Nov 19 13:48:40 <tid-wave> do you want a screenshot ? :)
Nov 19 13:49:02 <TorEinar> Odd, at least that works here, but it's annoying enough to have to use the mouse.
Nov 19 13:49:08 <tid-wave> yes
Nov 19 13:49:13 <tid-wave> using the mouse is really really annoying
Nov 19 13:49:31 <tid-wave> for such a simple, common, and often task
Nov 19 13:51:37 <TorEinar> Well, I think I better wait a month or twelve anyway. The entire SDK makes a very sloppy and unfinished impression. If the Eclipse shortcuts were the only problems, I wouldn't really mind :)
Nov 19 13:52:17 <tid-wave> :)
Nov 19 13:52:51 <davidw> they've said it's not finished
Nov 19 13:53:09 <tid-wave> not finished could mean many things
Nov 19 13:53:26 <tid-wave> like .. almost done with minor problems, seriously incomplete, or pre-alpha
Nov 19 13:53:27 <tid-wave> :)
Nov 19 13:56:34 <TorEinar> Well, before releasing anything, Google could at least have spent a few hours documenting what is not yet working, so that the potential developers wouldn't have to roll a dice and guess if their code is broken or if it is "ok" that something is not working. And what makes me really worried is the performance of the Dalvik VM. A few comparisons have shown that my SE cell phone runs Java code 10-15 times faster than Dalvik in the emu
Nov 19 13:58:28 <TorEinar> My antique 133MHz PPC "workstation" from IBM is almost 50 times faster with IBM's JDK under AIX.
Nov 19 14:01:21 <davidw> emulator slow, news at 11
Nov 19 14:03:37 <TorEinar> Well, according to other benchmarks published in the Google discussion group, the emulator itself is not that slow, but should be approximately equivalent to a 150-200MHz ARM processor on my desktop.
Nov 19 14:15:13 <Stephmw> TorEinar: I can say from the bottom of my heart that Google, with respect to documentation, has done a better job than any manufacturer/software supplier for a 1st release
Nov 19 14:15:23 <Stephmw> TorEinar: that's not to say it's enough
Nov 19 14:16:04 <Stephmw> most J2ME phones are also heavily heavily optimised, with some *also* having Jazelle
Nov 19 14:17:11 <davidw> one of those google dudes who was here was saying that jazelle "wasn't that useful"
Nov 19 14:17:53 <davidw> don't know if he was refererring to dalvik or in general, though
Nov 19 14:18:36 <TorEinar> At least for Dalvik, Jazelle is probably not useful at all, since it's not really Java bytecode which is executed.
Nov 19 14:18:42 <guardian> what's jazelle ?
Nov 19 14:18:42 * Stephmw nods
Nov 19 14:18:53 <Stephmw> jazelle is a hardware bytecode accelerator
Nov 19 14:19:03 <guardian> accelerator ?
Nov 19 14:19:07 <guardian> like in just in time compiler ?
Nov 19 14:19:17 <davidw> TorEinar, yes - I don't know if that's what he meant or if he had something else in mind.
Nov 19 14:19:18 <TorEinar> But if I've unterstood it correctly, the Dalvik VM is only interpreting and not using any kind of AOT or JIT.
Nov 19 14:19:32 <guardian> "bytecode accelerator" sounds like "intel accelerating the internet" :)
Nov 19 14:19:42 <guardian> when then started selling P4
Nov 19 14:19:48 <Stephmw> guardian: no, it's literally a bytecode executor
Nov 19 14:19:54 <Stephmw> guardian: like a maths copro
Nov 19 14:20:02 <guardian> ok
Nov 19 14:20:06 <guardian> googling for it
Nov 19 14:20:10 <davidw> guardian, it might not be as well known as android, but google also has a decent search engine that would probably get you good information on what exactly jazelle is;-P
Nov 19 14:20:12 <Stephmw> Jazelle+JIT wouldn't make sense though
Nov 19 14:20:13 <TorEinar> guardian: Not really. It means that the CPU executes bytecodes directly without any kind of AOT or JIT "up front".
Nov 19 14:20:54 <Stephmw> there's nothing saying a Jazelle-like chip couldn't accelerate dalvik bytecode though
Nov 19 14:21:16 <Stephmw> but the reasoning for Dalvik bytecode in the first place still mystifies me (from a technical viewpoint).
Nov 19 14:21:41 <guardian> it's not java bytecode so sun cannot pretend anything ?
Nov 19 14:21:57 <Stephmw> right, but that's not a technical issue
Nov 19 14:21:58 <davidw> that seems to be what people think
Nov 19 14:23:06 <TorEinar> Google seem to refer to the compilation as "optimized bytecode" indicating that there is some kind of technical advantage, but they don't seem to bother telling exactly what this optimization is about.
Nov 19 14:23:30 * Stephmw nods
Nov 19 14:23:58 * Stephmw waves his hands about vaguely, pointing to the blue sky as the reason why we should believe
Nov 19 14:25:51 <Nescio|Away> http://www.arm.com/products/esd/jazelle_home.html
Nov 19 14:26:08 <TorEinar> And I am not sure why a different bytecode format should solve any legal problems. I mean it's clear that Android is wether J2SE nor J2ME and Google is not planning to call it Java.
Nov 19 14:32:37 <Stephmw> TorEinar: sure, but if Dalvik ran Java bytecodes natively, then Sun would have a say. I'm sure there's a breadth of patents covering all aspects of the JVMS and JLS
Nov 19 14:32:56 <Stephmw> TorEinar: in any case, it would have been easier for Google to just bite the bullet
Nov 19 14:33:10 <Stephmw> TorEinar: rather than add yet another NIH solution to the marketplace
Nov 19 14:33:29 <Stephmw> </rant>
Nov 19 14:33:46 <Logi> Sun does the same thing with j2me though
Nov 19 14:35:20 <Stephmw> a quick shake of hands would make any problems go away... and add j2me support ;)
Nov 19 14:35:57 <tid-wave> and give a lot of money to sun ...
Nov 19 14:36:21 <Logi> anyone know where the name Dalvik comes from?
Nov 19 14:36:30 <Logi> We have a town in the north of Iceland called Dalvík
Nov 19 14:36:39 <Stephmw> considering how much Google is said to be planning on spending on the airwaves in the US... it'd be a drop in the ocean
Nov 19 14:36:40 <tid-wave> it comes from exactly that
Nov 19 14:38:25 <Logi> tid-wave: how sure are you about that?
Nov 19 14:38:44 <tid-wave> Logi: http://uke.livejournal.com/25660.html
Nov 19 14:38:56 <snorp> hey folks
Nov 19 14:38:59 <TorEinar> Logi: The ancestors of Dan Bornstein, the developer behind Dalvik came from Dalvík.
Nov 19 14:39:02 <snorp> anyone have a good way of extending the contact db info?
Nov 19 14:39:14 <Logi> tid-wave, TorEinar: ok, cool
Nov 19 14:39:14 <snorp> seems like there should be a generalized way of doing it
Nov 19 14:40:15 <Logi> ~2000 inhabitants currently
Nov 19 14:41:10 <TorEinar> 1600 men, 350 elves and 50 trolls?
Nov 19 14:41:24 <Logi> TorEinar: the page doesn't give the demographics
Nov 19 14:41:50 <Logi> I could stop by the office of national statistics on my way home later :)
Nov 19 14:43:58 <davidw> sounds like Dalek doesn't it
Nov 19 14:44:00 <TorEinar> Oh, it was just an estimate from my side. I guess it's just about right.
Nov 19 14:44:17 <davidw> "garbage collect...GAARBAAAGE COOOLLLEEECT"
Nov 19 14:44:25 <TorEinar> Dalek?
Nov 19 14:44:57 <Logi> davidw: it looks like Dalek but sounds quite different
Nov 19 14:45:10 <Logi> TorEinar: Doctor Who bad robots (not androids though)
Nov 19 14:47:17 <TorEinar> Ah, ok.
Nov 19 14:48:56 <davidw> they go around saying "EXTERMINAAAATE", so a dalvik ought to go around garbaaaage cooolleeeecting
Nov 19 14:58:24 <davidw> damn, they still haven't fixed the cpu sucking javascript:-/
Nov 19 16:06:21 <blootus> http proxy support: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/d8cb5935a609b8cc
Nov 19 16:07:51 <d03boy> is the person who runs helloandroid.com here?
Nov 19 16:09:29 <cutmasta> lol
Nov 19 16:36:04 <Dralspire> I don't actually think I have seen him, d03boy
Nov 19 16:36:48 <d03boy> i thought I saw him once, but oh well
Nov 19 16:36:52 <d03boy> that was a few days ago
Nov 19 16:40:49 <d03boy> can anyone tell me when you would use the manifest to make a UI and when yo ucould go through code?
Nov 19 16:43:34 <lupin[4]> I think this would be better if you always use manifest because let you to keep separated business logic from code that just build up an UI
Nov 19 16:43:45 <cutmasta> exactly
Nov 19 16:44:31 <d03boy> does that impose any limitations then?
Nov 19 16:45:31 <lupin[4]> I don't think so
Nov 19 16:50:57 <ViaToR_SG> mmmm.... i think GridView has a bug.
Nov 19 16:56:19 <sanity> using the Eclipse plugin, is it necessary to restart the emulator every time you change some code, or is there a faster way to make it reload the class files and reinitialize the app?
Nov 19 16:56:44 <cutmasta> you can just re run
Nov 19 16:56:45 <cutmasta> the app
Nov 19 16:56:55 <cutmasta> let the emu run
Nov 19 16:57:41 <sanity> cutmasta: how do you re-run the app?  if i leave the app, return to the menu, then return to the app, it doesn't seem to restart the app
Nov 19 16:58:19 <cutmasta> hmm
Nov 19 16:58:24 <cutmasta> i start my app via eclipse
Nov 19 16:58:28 <cutmasta> then emu opens
Nov 19 16:58:32 <sanity> yes
Nov 19 16:58:33 <cutmasta> then i modify code
Nov 19 16:58:40 <cutmasta> then click "run"
Nov 19 16:58:49 <cutmasta> and it starts again in the running emu
Nov 19 16:59:10 <sanity> hmm
Nov 19 16:59:27 <cutmasta> i did this yesterday
Nov 19 17:00:07 <sanity> ah, ok - i think it works
Nov 19 17:00:22 <sanity> weird, you just hit "Run" again and it reloads, no need to quit the app
Nov 19 17:00:33 <sanity> that isn't the behavior I would expect
Nov 19 17:01:08 <cutmasta> yap
Nov 19 17:01:28 <sanity> ordinarily with Java apps you need to quit them before you run them again
Nov 19 17:01:36 <cutmasta> hmm
Nov 19 17:01:41 <cutmasta> or you run your app in debug mode
Nov 19 17:01:48 <cutmasta> and use the hot code replace stuff
Nov 19 17:02:01 <cutmasta> which is nice for debugging
Nov 19 17:02:22 <cutmasta> but the current sdk does not support hote code replacment in the emu :(
Nov 19 17:02:50 <d03boy> I just found something kind of funny
Nov 19 17:03:13 <d03boy> in the "A first hand look at" video, dan morill says "lets dial my wife..." and her name si aimee morgan
Nov 19 17:03:38 * d03boy submits a bug report....... jk
Nov 19 17:03:57 <cutmasta> bye all
Nov 19 17:07:41 <sanity> how code replacement works haphazardly anyway, i think a quick compile-run cycle is sufficient, and Android seems to have that
Nov 19 17:07:52 <sanity> hmm, can't find a way to gain access to the audio of a phone call
Nov 19 17:15:01 <d03boy> im not even sure where to start with this layout
Nov 19 17:24:41 <d03boy> #  The @ in the id strings of the ListView and TextView means that the XML parser should parse and expand the rest of the id string and use an ID resource.
Nov 19 17:24:44 <d03boy> what does that mean?
Nov 19 17:25:04 <Dralspire> hm ...
Nov 19 17:26:00 <d03boy> this xml layout stuff is so confusing to me
Nov 19 17:28:34 <jasta> d03boy: Every View can potentially have a unique id number to identify it.
Nov 19 17:29:26 <jasta> the resource system (R.java) will automatically assign an id number to your views that you specify in your layout XML file.
Nov 19 17:29:38 <d03boy> ok. how does that help me?
Nov 19 17:30:00 <jasta> so you get to work with just a name that R.java holds for you, as in <TextView id="@+id/foo"... gives you R.id.foo equal to some generated id value.
Nov 19 17:30:26 <jasta> Likewise, <TextView ... layout_above="@id/otherwidget" /> is a way for you to specify another widget, by name, in the XML file.
Nov 19 17:30:35 <jasta> which will ultimately translate to the integer id.
Nov 19 17:30:51 <d03boy> ok
Nov 19 17:31:02 <d03boy> im assuming you've done a fair bit of work with the xml layouts already
Nov 19 17:31:22 <jasta> I suppose.
Nov 19 17:31:58 <d03boy> do you know how I would go about putting a textview directly above an input field? (like here in irc..)
Nov 19 17:32:14 <d03boy> i put that all in one view?
Nov 19 17:32:33 <haavi> use android:below
Nov 19 17:32:43 <haavi> in RelativeLayout
Nov 19 17:32:45 <jasta> d03boy: It sounds like you want a RelativeLayout.
Nov 19 17:32:51 <d03boy> sure
Nov 19 17:32:57 <jasta> and android:layout_below, I believe, not android:below.
Nov 19 17:33:07 <jasta> a RelativeLayout would be your container, in this case.
Nov 19 17:33:14 <haavi> yeah sorry
Nov 19 17:33:16 <d03boy> do I put that in the main.xml or what?
Nov 19 17:33:20 <d03boy> not sure how those files are arranged
Nov 19 17:33:37 <jasta> d03boy: You can put it in whatever layout XML file that you wish.  The "main.xml" is not magical.
Nov 19 17:33:55 <jasta> None of them are magical at all.  The name of the XML file ("main", in this case), simply translates to R.layout.main.
Nov 19 17:34:45 <jasta> If you had fobarbaz.xml, you could then use setContentView(R.layout.foobarbaz); in one of your Activity's.
Nov 19 17:35:02 <d03boy> hmm ok
Nov 19 17:35:36 <jasta> And RelativeLayout can be used to accomplish what you want.
Nov 19 17:38:05 <jasta> Have I cleared anything up?
Nov 19 17:38:28 <d03boy> you've definetly made it more clear. whether or not I can figure out the details, well, that may take some doing
Nov 19 17:40:49 <steve_k> d03boy: i've done something similar with the regular LinearLayout
Nov 19 17:41:55 <steve_k> where the textview would be set to layout_height="fill_parent" and the input filed would be layout_height="wrap_content"
Nov 19 17:42:06 <steve_k> so the textview fills all the space it can
Nov 19 17:42:23 <steve_k> well, i guess i've done it with a ListView, not a TextView so ymmv
Nov 19 17:45:59 <haavi> Does anyone know how to configure the callbacks that you can define for the buttons in showAlert()?
Nov 19 17:46:22 <haavi> I've got this alert set up:
Nov 19 17:46:28 <haavi> showAlert("No Name set", "Do you want to set your name now?",
Nov 19 17:46:29 <haavi>      "Yes", onYesBtn,
Nov 19 17:46:29 <haavi>      "No", onNoBtn,
Nov 19 17:46:29 <haavi>      true, null);
Nov 19 17:46:54 <haavi> and then onYesBtn which is a OnClickListener looks like this:
Nov 19 17:47:15 <haavi> onYesBtn = new dialog.OnClickListener() {
Nov 19 17:47:15 <haavi> public void onClick(dialog, BUTTON1) {
Nov 19 17:47:15 <haavi>  showAlert("onYesBtn", "yes clicked", "Ok", null, true, null);
Nov 19 17:47:15 <haavi> }
Nov 19 17:47:15 <haavi> }
Nov 19 17:47:57 <haavi> what I can't figure out is what the first parameter in the onClick method is suppose to be
Nov 19 17:48:27 <haavi> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/DialogInterface.OnClickListener.html
Nov 19 17:51:53 <steve_k> a reference to the dialog that was clicked?
Nov 19 17:52:26 <haavi> yeah but how do I point to that?
Nov 19 17:52:52 <haavi> I can't do DialogInterface dialog = showAlert("....
Nov 19 18:00:22 <pombreda> hi, are there any Android google devs idling here?
Nov 19 18:04:19 <haavi> suppose I could do an entirely new activity just for that bloody alert window
Nov 19 18:04:58 <pombreda> any knows what font is used for : http://code.google.com/android/images/logo_android.gif ?
Nov 19 18:05:42 <ViaToR_SG> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/58a965f34a346d60  anybody can cofirm it??? :(
Nov 19 18:13:05 <edu> Hi Android
Nov 19 18:19:09 <edu__> Hi
Nov 19 18:21:07 <Dralspire> Hi there
Nov 19 18:21:59 <d03boy> hi
Nov 19 18:23:23 <edu__> Do you know if the mobiles for Android will have a camera in the front panel (i.e videoconferencing)?
Nov 19 18:23:58 <haavi> there's classes in the library implying that they will have camera functionality
Nov 19 18:24:14 <Dralspire> Well, camera placement is clearly speculation at this point :-)
Nov 19 18:24:24 <Essington> I think that device design is an exercise left to the handset maker
Nov 19 18:24:39 <haavi> but it's very likely imo
Nov 19 18:26:17 <haavi> oh on the front panel
Nov 19 18:27:01 <edu__> I'd like to see the other party face while recording mine  : - )
Nov 19 18:27:53 <Dralspire> camera ... I HATE CAMERA ... gotta be fully/formally dressed, all puuuuuretty ...  :D
Nov 19 18:31:30 <edu__> You know. Sometimes Android's challenge makes me fill as an expiremntal animal. I mean, there is not enough info about how the evaluation will be done (the context and rules), companies (not one or a team of developers) can be far ahead with several ideas to be shipped on the Gphone. What do you think?
Nov 19 18:32:09 <nagaxen> edu__: that should be explained more later iirc
Nov 19 18:33:18 <xbit> do they still make phones without two cameras? :o
Nov 19 18:33:20 <edu__> nagaxen: Yes but time passed
Nov 19 18:35:49 <Logi> Dralspire: formally dressed? Just being dressed at all is a challenge!
Nov 19 18:36:17 <edu> I mean, I'm glad to become an Android developer...but I'd like to reinvent the wheel
Nov 19 18:36:48 <Dralspire> lol Logi, I hope you are not on of these PC nudists :D
Nov 19 18:37:13 <edu> Typo: I wouldn't like
Nov 19 18:47:13 <TorEinar> Oh my god, the Android web browser does not support UTF-8!
Nov 19 18:47:48 <nagaxen> ... really? ouch
Nov 19 18:48:19 <TorEinar> Try e.g. a Russian page like www.train.ru
Nov 19 18:48:40 <Dralspire> Chance is this will still be implemented?
Nov 19 18:50:37 <DeNY> its a web site problem
Nov 19 18:50:47 <DeNY> becuase other sites are opening correclty
Nov 19 18:50:50 <xbit> train.ru isn't in utf-8..
Nov 19 18:51:01 <Dralspire> Ah, the validator.w3.org will be handy again :D
Nov 19 18:52:54 <ilogik> anybody here working on some interesting projects? or just playing around?
Nov 19 18:53:19 * Dralspire is still in the "Play around with the SDK" stage :D
Nov 19 18:59:39 <ilogik> i've got a question....let's say i've got an app, and the user should be able to access a configuration window..
Nov 19 19:00:02 <ilogik> i tried it by making a diferent layout for te config part....
Nov 19 19:00:17 <ilogik> and setting the view from it to the main window..is that the way to go?
Nov 19 19:01:17 <Logi> TorEinar: is it that it doesn't support UTF-8 or that it doesn't have a cyrillic font?
Nov 19 19:01:50 <Logi> TorEinar: do you see two (or more) garbled glyphs corresponding to each non-ascii UTF-8 character?
Nov 19 19:02:29 <Dralspire> And is the webpage properly coded?
Nov 19 19:03:43 <Logi> it seems to look correct in cd1251... except of course that I don't know Russian
Nov 19 19:03:48 <Logi> *cp1251
Nov 19 19:04:56 <Dralspire> What's the site again?
Nov 19 19:05:21 <Logi> http://www.train.ru/
Nov 19 19:05:43 <DeNY> yes win 1251 is correct encoding for this site
Nov 19 19:06:05 <Dralspire> The page doesn't specify it's UTF-8
Nov 19 19:06:21 <xbit> i just said...
Nov 19 19:06:23 <TorEinar> I am not really sure what I am messing up here. Just forget what I said :)
Nov 19 19:06:27 <xbit> dude :)
Nov 19 19:06:30 <Dralspire> Sorry :-)
Nov 19 19:07:11 <TorEinar> I am having some problems with my own web pages and just referred to www.train.ru, as I saw the same problem there.
Nov 19 19:07:31 <TorEinar> But other Russian web pages are shown correctly.
Nov 19 19:07:37 <xbit> send a proper encoding with your page then
Nov 19 19:07:46 <xbit> so you don't have to rely on browsers guessing right
Nov 19 19:08:24 <TorEinar> Yes, but it seems to have problems with ISO-2022-JP.
Nov 19 19:09:48 <xbit> sounds like a really weird choice of encoding
Nov 19 19:09:52 <xbit> what's wrong with utf-8 ?=
Nov 19 19:10:50 <TorEinar> It's nothing wrong with UTF-8, but it's a web-mail application. It simply reuses the encoding actually used by the e-mail.
Nov 19 19:11:32 <TorEinar> But it might be better to decode the mail server-side and render the web page with UTF-8, no matter which encoding is used in the mail.
Nov 19 19:11:52 <Logi> these days *everything* should be utf-8
Nov 19 19:12:19 <Logi> and timestamps should always be stored relative to GMT and TZ applied only when formating for display
Nov 19 19:12:31 <Logi> there, my two absolute truths in software development :)
Nov 19 19:13:08 <xbit> no, in Internet Time! ;)
Nov 19 19:13:17 <TorEinar> It's just that Java out-of-the-box is not supporting all encodings commonly used in e-mails.
Nov 19 19:13:30 <xbit> TorEinar: sounds like a good idea yes
Nov 19 19:13:33 <ilogik> does anybody use that thing? internet time?
Nov 19 19:13:56 <TorEinar> And it's not very uncommon that e-mails come without proper encoding set.
Nov 19 19:14:10 <xbit> ilogik: nobody but swatch i guess
Nov 19 19:14:33 <TorEinar> If the encoding is odd or not available, I had more luck letting the web browser "guess" when rendering the mail instead of trying to convert the data in Java code.
Nov 19 19:15:13 <xbit> mmh, some are quite good at guessing
Nov 19 19:15:54 <davidw> oooh, this AttributeSet stuff is handy
Nov 19 19:16:56 <davidw> hrm... should have setters and getters though
Nov 19 19:23:35 <BoyMercury> hello all
Nov 19 19:24:44 <Dralspire> Hi Mercury :-9
Nov 19 19:26:40 <BoyMercury> how many people are into mydroid project, it seems like if they where zillions of them :P
Nov 19 19:27:32 <d03boy> ya, and I dont even think teh project seems that usseful or cool
Nov 19 19:27:42 <edu> there will be a huge Android community in a very short time...
Nov 19 19:28:33 <BoyMercury> d03boy,  well, the project is not that bad, its a good idea, but it seems like a bit difficult
Nov 19 19:28:52 <d03boy> its just an avatar that moves around the screen, right? or did I miss the concept?
Nov 19 19:28:58 <BoyMercury> to handle so much people.
Nov 19 19:29:03 <BoyMercury> d03boy,  more or less
Nov 19 19:29:48 <haavi> tamagotchis are so 1997
Nov 19 19:29:59 <d03boy> ya..
Nov 19 19:30:06 <d03boy> this reminds me of bonzai buddy
Nov 19 19:30:31 <ilogik> or the office thing :)
Nov 19 19:30:38 <d03boy> clipper
Nov 19 19:30:45 <ilogik> the paper clip
Nov 19 19:30:55 <haavi> clippy! :P
Nov 19 19:31:04 <ilogik> yeah..
Nov 19 19:32:10 <edu> Clipper?
Nov 19 19:33:16 <ilogik> in microsoft office, the assistant thingie
Nov 19 19:33:50 <ilogik> is anybody from google on the channel from time to time?
Nov 19 19:34:01 <d03boy> there are a few that come here
Nov 19 19:34:26 <dcordes> hmm pitr
Nov 19 19:34:35 <dcordes> pitr also worked for google once :D
Nov 19 19:35:11 <davidw> ilogik, at one point there were
Nov 19 19:35:45 <ilogik> ok...
Nov 19 19:36:12 <ilogik> i really don't like google groups....phpBB is much better
Nov 19 19:36:41 <d03boy> they're completely different concepts
Nov 19 19:40:12 <davidw> ew
Nov 19 19:59:45 <guardian> evening
Nov 19 19:59:53 <Dralspire> hi guardian :-)
Nov 19 21:06:42 <univac> Hey
Nov 19 21:07:26 <univac> how can i add more than one instances to addContentView method?
Nov 19 21:07:36 <univac> i want display analog and digital clock
Nov 19 21:09:43 <jasta> what do you mean, exactly?
Nov 19 21:09:52 <jasta> if you want to add multiple views, just use addContentView multiple times.
Nov 19 21:10:18 <univac> could you write a example?
Nov 19 21:10:26 <jasta> But I would recommend using a single call to setContentView(), and just making a View that encompasses many Views, as in a LinearLayout or RelativeLayout.
Nov 19 21:10:29 <univac> i want display analog and digital lock in the same time
Nov 19 21:10:36 <jasta> univac: Google already wrote many; have you looked at them?
Nov 19 21:10:54 <univac> yes, now i;m looking but i havent any idea ...
Nov 19 21:11:02 <jasta> keep looking, you'll figure it out.
Nov 19 21:13:50 <univac> hm hm
Nov 19 21:16:22 <univac> http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/6774/75662895ps9.jpg
Nov 19 21:16:23 <univac> ;[
Nov 19 21:17:15 <jasta> Yes, and?
Nov 19 21:19:04 <univac> i 'cant display digital clock too, with analog, the same time
Nov 19 21:19:09 <univac> i need example code ;[
Nov 19 21:19:34 <jasta> univac: you have example code.  all over the ApiDemos.
Nov 19 21:19:54 <jasta> Views can be containers, and can contain other views.  Layouts are good default implementations of one such View.
Nov 19 21:20:18 <jasta> Look at LinearLayout and RelativeLayout in the docs and ApiDemos.
Nov 19 21:20:30 <univac> maybe i can't understand it beacuse i'm java noob ... ;-)
Nov 19 21:20:39 <univac> ok, i'll check
Nov 19 21:21:02 <jasta> univac: Then perhaps you should learn Java first.
Nov 19 21:50:04 <asymptonic> Bonjour:  Does anyone know if the API contains calls/classes for identifying the handset user?  Either his/her phone number or something more GUIDy?
Nov 19 21:57:51 <aitorch> hi
Nov 19 21:59:42 <orrc> univac: layouts are primarily defined using XML, so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out
Nov 19 21:59:47 <orrc> aitorch: evenin'
Nov 19 22:01:27 <Squid> I've been searching the forums trying to get a good answer to this question, but haven't had a lot of luck.  Is there any type of Infrared support in the Android SDK (assuming, of course, that the hardware your app was deployed to had the necessary hardware).
Nov 19 22:02:44 <duey> no
Nov 19 22:02:57 <duey> no phone remote for you!
Nov 19 22:03:09 <Squid> cool, thanks
Nov 19 22:19:56 <cat> hi folks - I'm having trouble with the sample code for Playing media via url here: http://code.google.com/android/toolbox/apis/media.html
Nov 19 22:20:43 <cat> that gives me an unhandled uri syntax exception....  perhaps someone could suggest why? :)
Nov 19 22:23:25 <haavi> doesn't the exception tell you that? =)
Nov 19 22:24:00 <cat> but the docs say it'll take a raw string URI
Nov 19 22:24:02 <cat> :)
Nov 19 22:24:55 <haavi> what uri are you trying it with?
Nov 19 22:25:43 <cat> http://streams.radiofreenetwork.ca:8000/hi-fi.m3u
Nov 19 22:26:09 <cat> i'm trying to build a little stream player
Nov 19 22:26:23 <haavi> cool
Nov 19 22:27:02 <haavi> are you setting the MIME-type of the file properly?
Nov 19 22:27:03 <cat> but I am stuck on this exception and cannot figure out what format it expects v.s. what I am giving it :)
Nov 19 22:27:22 <cat> i will msg you the code block (to avoid spamming up #android)
Nov 19 22:27:26 <nikolaj_sd> hi everyone
Nov 19 22:27:27 <cat>         Intent intent = new Intent(Intent.VIEW_ACTION, myURL);
Nov 19 22:27:27 <cat>         intent.setType("audio/*");
Nov 19 22:27:27 <cat>         startActivity(intent);
Nov 19 22:27:39 <cat> hmm...apparently that's not allowed :)
Nov 19 22:27:54 <haavi> m3u has the mimetype audio/?
Nov 19 22:28:15 <cat> hmmm..
Nov 19 22:28:27 * cat checks - thanks for the breadcrumb
Nov 19 22:28:46 <cat> yes - audio/x-mpegurl
Nov 19 22:29:42 <nikolaj_sd> does anyone know of a UI level timer akin to javascript's "setInterval"?
Nov 19 22:30:04 <nikolaj_sd> all i can find is the java.util timer, and message queue
Nov 19 22:31:09 <duey> cat: did you try explicit mimetype?
Nov 19 22:31:34 <duey> nikolaj_sd: use that
Nov 19 22:31:35 <duey> ?
Nov 19 22:31:48 * cat tries it
Nov 19 22:32:00 <duey> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/util/ResettableTimeout.html
Nov 19 22:32:37 <nikolaj_sd> duey: great thanks! of everything i grepped for, apparently i missed timeout :)
Nov 19 22:32:49 <duey> yeah all i did was search timeout
Nov 19 22:32:50 <duey> er
Nov 19 22:32:52 <duey> timer
Nov 19 22:33:39 <nikolaj_sd> ah, i was on a plane (local docs only) when i was searching.. maybe that was the issue
Nov 19 22:33:59 <cat> http://pastebin.com/m601ed6d7  # still throws a uri syntax exception
Nov 19 22:34:10 <cat> clearly something I don't get here :D
Nov 19 22:34:51 <d03boy> which line throws it?
Nov 19 22:34:55 <orrc> cat: does it tell you which part of the URI it doesn't like?
Nov 19 22:36:27 <cat> orrc:  alaz, no - eclipse just tells me it's thrown
Nov 19 22:36:37 <cat> line 17 throws
Nov 19 22:36:39 <haavi> try creating a normal URI first and then pass it to the ContentURI constructor
Nov 19 22:36:46 <ozarka> Does anyone else find it amusing that there is an "android-beginners" googlegroup?
Nov 19 22:37:02 <d03boy> arent we all beginners? :)
Nov 19 22:37:04 <cat> hehe
Nov 19 22:37:11 <orrc> eclipse won't even let me run that code as it's forcing me to catch an exception on the ContentURI constructor
Nov 19 22:39:06 <ozarka> I'm just waiting for the first job req on monster.com that calls for 3+ years of android experience.
Nov 19 22:39:24 <orrc> cat: when I do catch it, the code works fine (well, except that I have no Activity for that Intent!)
Nov 19 22:40:06 <jasta> ozarka: Android was first developed in 2005.
Nov 19 22:40:12 <jasta> So, that is possible, for some people :)
Nov 19 22:41:07 <duey> cat: try removing the port?
Nov 19 22:41:13 <duey> im not sure if that would do it
Nov 19 22:41:16 <duey> but could be
Nov 19 22:41:17 <ozarka> jasta:  Good point.
Nov 19 22:41:55 <cat> ok - thanks folks - i will continue to tinker around some more
Nov 19 22:42:44 <duey> uhhh
Nov 19 22:42:46 <duey> isn'
Nov 19 22:42:54 <duey> isn't m3u a playlist
Nov 19 22:44:36 <d03boy> yes
Nov 19 22:45:55 <TorEinar> And the stream is broken. No wonder that it doesn't work with Android.
Nov 19 22:46:15 <haavi> should be able to parse the URI anyway shouldn't it?
Nov 19 22:46:16 <TorEinar> The playlist points to http://streams.radiofreepeterborough.ca:8000/hi-fi and that URL simply delivers a web page telling "The source you requested could not be found."
Nov 19 22:49:09 <TorEinar> I get an ActivityNotFoundException for content type audio/x-mpegurl
Nov 19 22:50:10 <orrc> yeah, cat is writing a streaming media player, so I imagine he has an Activity that handles that mime type
Nov 19 22:51:29 <TorEinar> Perhaps, but I have no problem here constructing the ContentURI.
Nov 19 22:51:37 <orrc> yeah, same here
Nov 19 22:52:02 <ozarka> cat left, so we'll never know.
Nov 19 22:52:31 <ozarka> I had to add a try/catch and initialize myURL to null
Nov 19 22:52:37 <orrc> yeah
Nov 19 22:53:00 <ozarka> And his pastebin extends Activity, so he had to be getting the same error.
Nov 19 22:53:12 <ozarka> I wonder how he even got to the emulator with that code...
Nov 19 22:54:07 <d03boy> probably didnt run it..
Nov 19 22:54:13 <d03boy> just used eclipse to show the red [x]
Nov 19 22:57:54 <TorEinar> Btw, has anyone been able to get audio to work properly on the emulator?
Nov 19 23:03:04 <orrc> TorEinar: like the -useaudio flag, or APIs such as MediaPlayer?
Nov 19 23:03:48 <TorEinar> orrc: No, like having smooth playback when using -useaudio and the proper APIs. The audio is very choppy and many others seem to have the same problem.
Nov 19 23:04:29 <orrc> ah, I've had no problems with -useaudio on OS X, but then I haven't done very much with the APIs
Nov 19 23:04:39 <orrc> attempting to play something with MediaPlayer just now...
Nov 19 23:09:08 <TorEinar> And it works on OS X?
Nov 19 23:09:50 <orrc> my own app isn't working, but I can hear ringtones when I call the phone
Nov 19 23:11:11 <TorEinar> At least here, the sound is choppy for 15-20 seconds or so and then the playback stops and the emulator hangs with 100% CPU usage.
Nov 19 23:12:28 <orrc> nasty. what OS is that on?
Nov 19 23:12:28 <jasta> can you simulate SMS messages, btw?
Nov 19 23:12:38 <jasta> like you can simulate incoming calls?
Nov 19 23:12:48 <orrc> jasta: not that I know of
Nov 19 23:13:00 <TorEinar> I'm using Windows, but the choppy sound problem is told to exist on Linux as well.
Nov 19 23:13:41 <orrc> jasta: there's some sqlite databases on the device complete with tables for incoming SMS messages, but that seems to be about it
Nov 19 23:13:52 <haavi> I think you can send sms with the sendTextMessage method in android telephony.gsm.SmsManager
Nov 19 23:14:04 <haavi> but I haven't tested it
Nov 19 23:17:42 <jasta> haavi: i've heard that does not work.
Nov 19 23:18:16 <haavi> ok, no suprise I suppose
Nov 19 23:18:57 <haavi> you probably need a real phone with a valid SIM to try the gsm classes?
Nov 19 23:19:05 <orrc> I don't have a sendTextMessage method in SmsManager.. it seems like fairly low level stuff instead
Nov 19 23:19:28 <orrc> nah, I imagine they'll just output texts to a port or a file in the emulator
Nov 19 23:19:53 <orrc> that's what the BlackBerry emulator does at least.. it just fires out some data on a UDP port
Nov 19 23:20:15 <haavi> cool that's well done
Nov 19 23:20:35 <orrc> not really, it's in some undefined format (I think) :)
Nov 19 23:20:56 <orrc> the BlackBerry dev environment is a bit useless
Nov 19 23:21:21 <haavi> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/SmsManager.html
Nov 19 23:21:30 <haavi> you should see sendTextMessage there
Nov 19 23:22:30 <orrc> haavi: ahh, thanks. I was just looking in eclipse. plus I don't have the latest release :)
Nov 19 23:22:51 <haavi> ok
Nov 19 23:23:13 <haavi> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/speech/recognition/package-summary.html
Nov 19 23:23:20 <haavi> that package looks interesting
Nov 19 23:23:28 <orrc> it looks pretty good though. full access to send different types of SMS messages. different encodings etc.
Nov 19 23:23:41 <orrc> haavi: ha, hadn't noticed that!
Nov 19 23:23:57 <haavi> imagine what you could do if that works good
Nov 19 23:24:30 <haavi> call your own phone and start talking to it to do stuff
Nov 19 23:25:16 <haavi> that would be so cool
Nov 20 01:33:40 <jasta> i love the ability to simulate network speed and latency :)
Nov 20 02:03:38 <jasta> I'm pretty new to Eclipse development, how do you evaluate an expression against the running (debugging) instance of a project?
Nov 20 02:04:02 <jasta> I have my variables that I can navigate, and that's great, but what I have to evaluate an expression like foobar.getString(10)?
Nov 20 02:06:54 <jasta> ahh, the display view.
Nov 20 02:09:15 <jasta> damn no, that's not what i want.
Nov 20 02:14:52 <jasta> i guess watch expressions will do the trick
Nov 20 02:38:58 <jasta> hmm, that's an odd bug I just found.
Nov 20 02:39:43 <jasta> really weird, not even sure how to describe it.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 20 02:59:57 2007