**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 24 02:59:57 2007
Nov 24 05:01:15 <billmeltsner> howdy all
Nov 24 05:14:02 <eddiegreysherman> hello
Nov 24 05:51:28 <Dralspire> hi there :-)
Nov 24 05:53:04 <morgosmaci> Howdy
Nov 24 06:11:58 <niklauz> anyone know if/when a vm image will be available?
Nov 24 06:21:46 <morgosmaci> vm image?
Nov 24 06:34:06 <billmeltsner> of the emulator I assume.
Nov 24 10:04:04 <cutmasta> morning
Nov 24 10:04:57 <billmeltsner> I suppose it is, technically
Nov 24 10:22:24 <jasta> How would I create a custom view that can layout multiple other views (i.e. LinearLayout) but have it draw something custom on the canvas, like a simple line underneath the view?
Nov 24 10:22:54 <jasta> i tried extending LinearLayout, and overriding onDraw, but it seems that onDraw never gets called?
Nov 24 10:30:39 <jasta> perhaps i should override dispatchDraw()?
Nov 24 10:34:45 <jasta> hmm, that seemed to work okay.
Nov 24 11:29:51 <botero> hi
Nov 24 11:30:28 <botero> there's a linux users here?
Nov 24 11:30:56 <xbit> there is
Nov 24 11:31:07 <botero> hi xbit
Nov 24 11:31:11 <xbit> hi botero
Nov 24 11:32:26 <botero> could you help me?I've installed eclipse 3.2 on debian with adt plugin and, of course, the sdk to develop android apps
Nov 24 11:33:46 <botero> xbit, i' m following the guide to run a simply "Hello word" program but i received an error
Nov 24 11:34:11 <xbit> ok, what error?
Nov 24 11:34:26 <botero> Severity and Description	Path	Resource	Location	Creation Time	Id
Nov 24 11:34:26 <botero> TextView cannot be resolved to a type	HelloAndroid/src/com/google/android/hello
Nov 24 11:35:14 <xbit> have you set the sdk path?
Nov 24 11:36:14 <botero> yep, i'm saved all in /~/.bash_profiles
Nov 24 11:37:09 <botero> *.bash_profile
Nov 24 11:37:25 <xbit> but the sdk path in the eclipse settings?
Nov 24 11:37:45 <botero> yep, the tools directory
Nov 24 11:38:24 <xbit> hmm
Nov 24 11:40:08 <botero> xbit, if i type "emuletor" in a bash prompt work, so the tools path is exported!
Nov 24 11:40:10 <xbit> it should be to the root of the android sdk
Nov 24 11:40:17 <xbit> not the tools directory
Nov 24 11:41:15 <xbit> botero: yes, but that's just for "without-ide" usage
Nov 24 11:43:08 <botero> xbit, do you thing is a problem about the ide configuration?
Nov 24 11:43:58 <xbit> yes, that's what i'm saying
Nov 24 11:45:22 <botero> xbit, in the eclipse gui: window-->preferences-->Android --> SDK Location: /home/kmiro/.android_sdk_linux_m3-rc22a
Nov 24 11:45:44 <botero> it's true?
Nov 24 11:45:52 <xbit> yep, that looks right
Nov 24 11:45:57 <xbit> why the . ?
Nov 24 11:46:09 <botero> its' an hidden dir
Nov 24 11:46:14 <xbit> yes, i know
Nov 24 11:46:22 <xbit> but is there a reason for hiding android? :p
Nov 24 11:46:42 <botero> safety
Nov 24 11:46:54 <Lede> /facepalm
Nov 24 11:46:55 <botero> it's in a user account
Nov 24 11:47:15 <xbit> oookay
Nov 24 11:47:29 <xbit> safetey through obscurity ;)
Nov 24 11:47:35 <botero> ehehehe
Nov 24 11:48:40 <xbit> did you import the sample project via "new android project" ?
Nov 24 11:48:49 <botero> xbit, it's a good start with android!!!
Nov 24 11:49:51 <botero> xbit, i'm looking for, one time
Nov 24 12:11:21 <botero> xbit, i'm added import android.widget.TextView; and now there' no error but when i run application in the emulator there's nothing!
Nov 24 12:14:38 <xbit> try to run the application again while the emulator is running
Nov 24 12:15:57 <botero> nothing!
Nov 24 12:16:08 <xbit> weird
Nov 24 12:23:36 <Tominator> hi!
Nov 24 12:25:08 <Tominator> I followeed the "hello-android"-tutorial, but when I tried a second run of the code, it doesn't appear... does anybody know why? I'm running the sdk on linux and I'm using the eclipse plugin...
Nov 24 12:34:26 <[AD]Turbo> hi there
Nov 24 12:45:53 <Dralspire> Morning hamsters and hamsterettes :D
Nov 24 16:40:42 <vijay> hi everyone
Nov 24 16:40:54 <Dralspire> hi there :-)
Nov 24 16:41:23 <vijay> hows it going? is everyone busy coding for the competition ?
Nov 24 16:42:12 <Dralspire> Haha definitely
Nov 24 16:43:14 <vijay> damn, i am just going to start playing arnd it now, i have experience doing j2me projects, hope i understand the android architecture soon
Nov 24 16:43:50 <Dralspire> Hehe don't worry, what's the worst that can happen? Application errors? :D
Nov 24 16:43:57 <vijay> :D
Nov 24 16:45:13 <d03boy> the world might explode
Nov 24 16:45:45 <Dralspire> lol runner-up prices for the dev challenge: tattoos on the forehead - "I coded in the challenge, and all I got was a lousy TATTOO!!!" lol
Nov 24 17:05:47 <Tominator> hi!
Nov 24 17:05:47 <Tominator> I followeed the "hello-android"-tutorial, but when I tried a second run of the code, it doesn't appear... does anybody know why? I'm running the sdk on linux and I'm using the eclipse plugin...
Nov 24 17:06:41 <vijay> i got the same problem, i guess there is a setting, does anyone know here ?
Nov 24 17:07:06 <d03boy> check your Android.xml file
Nov 24 17:07:08 <Nescio> Kill adb
Nov 24 17:07:12 <d03boy> sorry, the .. other xml file
Nov 24 17:07:16 <d03boy> manifest
Nov 24 17:07:19 <d03boy> AndroidManifest.xml
Nov 24 17:07:24 <d03boy> there is a line missing in some installations
Nov 24 17:07:30 <d03boy> look for the 'LAUNCHER' line
Nov 24 17:08:23 <d03boy> <category android:value="android.intent.category.LAUNCHER" />
Nov 24 17:08:33 <d03boy> put that under the "MAIN" line
Nov 24 17:09:28 <haavi> that only adds it to the applications menu
Nov 24 17:09:36 <Nescio> kill -9 adb
Nov 24 17:10:20 <d03boy> then do what nescio says
Nov 24 17:10:46 <Tominator> Nescio: thanks that worked for me ;)
Nov 24 17:11:05 <Tominator> is there a way to speed up the starting up of the emulator?
Nov 24 17:11:06 <Nescio> no problem - note, you dont have to close the emulator between builds...
Nov 24 17:11:27 <Tominator> ah okay... e seem that is also the way to speed it up :)
Nov 24 17:11:40 <Nescio> yea :)
Nov 24 17:13:14 <Tominator> Nescio: thanks a lot ;)
Nov 24 17:44:40 <vijay> does the emulator has to show the ANDROID intro and the flash loding thing, is there a way to bypass that ?
Nov 24 17:45:00 <billmeltsner> that's the emulator loading itself, mostly.
Nov 24 17:45:08 <billmeltsner> You can skip that by just leaving the emulator open.
Nov 24 17:45:45 <vijay> oh ok, thanks billmeltsner
Nov 24 17:45:45 <billmeltsner> then, at least in Eclipse, next time you hit run, it'll use the open instance of the emulator.
Nov 24 18:17:06 <dims> anyone know process to report vulnerabilities? please drop me a note (dims@yahoo.com)
Nov 24 18:17:29 <Nescio> how do you mean?
Nov 24 18:17:45 <Nescio> bugs?
Nov 24 18:17:48 <dims> you know security holes
Nov 24 18:17:59 <Nescio> android-internals
Nov 24 18:18:24 <dims> thanks
Nov 24 18:41:45 <jerkface03> after browsing thru some of the android tutorials, it seems like the closest thing to a j2me canvas object is a view object
Nov 24 18:41:54 <jerkface03> does that sound about right?
Nov 24 18:46:15 <jerkface03> hrm
Nov 24 18:46:27 <jerkface03> i really wish they would provide a netbeans plugin for android
Nov 24 18:54:27 <jerkface03> and this helloworld tutorial app doesn't even get recognized by the emu
Nov 24 18:54:27 <jerkface03> nice
Nov 24 19:45:56 <davidw> dims, what'd you find?
Nov 24 19:48:29 <davidw> that internals group doesn't seem that interesting
Nov 24 19:48:41 <Nescio> yea >.<
Nov 24 20:10:59 <davidw> anyone know how to redirect stderr to Log.something ?
Nov 24 20:17:48 <ad0le> Anyone know how to get the telephone number assigned to the phone? Its not in PhoneUtils.
Nov 24 20:20:11 <billmeltsner> haha, awesome, the Z-machine for android
Nov 24 20:20:11 <billmeltsner> http://devphone.com/z-machine-for-android
Nov 24 20:22:31 <Lede> ._o
Nov 24 20:22:37 <jerkface03> hot
Nov 24 20:24:07 <ad0le> Does anyone know how to get the assigned phone number for the phone?
Nov 24 20:26:14 <davidw> wow
Nov 24 20:26:49 <billmeltsner> Aha.
Nov 24 20:26:59 <billmeltsner> ad0le: the answer lies in android.telephony
Nov 24 20:27:18 <billmeltsner> specifically, android.telephony.TelephonyProperties
Nov 24 20:27:19 <billmeltsner> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/TelephonyProperties.html
Nov 24 20:28:45 <jerkface03> how many manufacturers/carriers do you guys think are going to support android
Nov 24 20:28:53 <billmeltsner> you'd fetch the assigned phone number with android.os.SystemProperties.get("gsm.sim.line1.number")
Nov 24 20:28:58 <jerkface03> since google is pretty much at odds with every wireless carrier atm
Nov 24 20:29:22 <billmeltsner> jerkface03: probably, at minimum, the members of the OHA
Nov 24 20:29:34 <jerkface03> i dont think this platform will even be half as popular as j2me, it'll probably be more like flashlite
Nov 24 20:29:43 <billmeltsner> well, we'll see
Nov 24 20:30:03 <billmeltsner> there are an awful lot of companies supporting this endeavor though.
Nov 24 20:30:34 <billmeltsner> China Mobile, DoCoMo, Sprint, T-Mobile, HTC, LG, Motorola, and Samsung
Nov 24 20:30:35 <billmeltsner> to name 8
Nov 24 20:31:03 <billmeltsner> I don't think support from manufacturers/carriers is something android has to worry about
Nov 24 20:31:37 <jerkface03> why's that? because android magically implements itself on any device?
Nov 24 20:31:43 <billmeltsner> http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
Nov 24 20:31:47 <billmeltsner> all the companies on that page
Nov 24 20:31:52 <billmeltsner> are working together to make android work
Nov 24 20:32:20 <jerkface03> well, the 2 big us wireless carriers i dont see there
Nov 24 20:32:31 <jerkface03> and ultimately they have the final say on what the device can and can't support
Nov 24 20:32:54 <jerkface03> devices that support their network anyways
Nov 24 20:33:12 <davidw> "supporting"
Nov 24 20:33:21 <davidw> they signed up so as to not be left out if it takes off
Nov 24 20:33:34 <jerkface03> exactly.
Nov 24 20:33:38 <davidw> who knows how much they're actually behind it
Nov 24 20:34:07 <davidw> that said, I have a good feeling about the whole enterprise
Nov 24 20:34:10 <jerkface03> they picked the wrong time to release this platform
Nov 24 20:34:58 <davidw> when would have been the right time? 5 years ago?:-)
Nov 24 20:35:33 <jerkface03> they started a fight over with the other carriers about the wireless frequency that's about to be bidded on
Nov 24 20:36:39 <jerkface03> it'll probably be big in europe
Nov 24 20:36:45 <jerkface03> but not in the states/canada
Nov 24 20:37:35 <wom-> why in europe
Nov 24 20:37:52 <jerkface03> don't think they're trying to battle any of the european carriers
Nov 24 20:38:15 <davidw> europe and japan are where it's at with mobile stuff anyway, the US sucks
Nov 24 20:38:31 <davidw> it's a messed up market
Nov 24 20:38:57 <jerkface03> a big, important, messed up market
Nov 24 20:39:16 <davidw> I looked at my mom's cell phone when I went back there this summer, and it was an awful mess of carrier limited crud
Nov 24 20:39:44 <jerkface03> thats how you make money
Nov 24 20:39:50 <jerkface03> limit services and keep rates artifically high
Nov 24 20:39:55 <jerkface03> us way of doing business
Nov 24 20:41:13 <davidw> the US is fine in other areas, just for mobile phones everything's all screwy
Nov 24 20:42:08 <davidw> we'll see though, I'm pretty optimistic about Android
Nov 24 20:43:00 <Lede> i'm skeptic
Nov 24 20:44:44 <davidw> why?
Nov 24 20:45:12 <davidw> there are certainly things that are...unclear, but in general I get a positive feeling from the whole thing
Nov 24 20:46:46 <jerkface03> why's that? because it's "open"?
Nov 24 20:47:12 <jerkface03> opensource is just a fad with big companies
Nov 24 20:50:06 <davidw> I disagree - I think the smarter ones have figured out how it can help them and will use it in that capacity.  They certainly won't open up everything, but where it can help them, they will consider it
Nov 24 20:52:25 <davidw> I think that rather than a passing fad, it will just become 'normal' as it's better understood
Nov 24 20:52:35 <davidw> some things will be open, some won't
Nov 24 20:52:51 <davidw> people like RMS will still froth at the mouth, and the rest of us will get on with our lives
Nov 24 20:53:07 <davidw> speaking of which, I think it's time to go cool some dinner
Nov 24 20:53:21 <Lede> cool?
Nov 24 20:53:36 <jerkface03> maybe he's eatting lava for dinner?
Nov 24 20:59:24 * Lede has the feeling there is a more mature SDK/emulator but is just being hold back
Nov 24 20:59:45 <Nescio> Windows CE?
Nov 24 20:59:56 <Lede> -_-
Nov 24 21:00:22 <Lede> i'm talking about android!
Nov 24 21:00:54 <Nescio> heh ... all I saw, was a "more mature SDK/emulator" ;P
Nov 24 21:01:54 <Lede> atleast, i hope they have one
Nov 24 21:02:17 * Nescio /agree
Nov 24 21:02:25 <Nescio> this is just an alpha release
Nov 24 21:03:11 <jasta> yawn
Nov 24 21:03:41 <Nescio> sup jasta?
Nov 24 21:03:44 <jasta> not much
Nov 24 21:03:46 <jasta> just hacking away
Nov 24 21:03:51 <Nescio> heh
Nov 24 21:04:01 <Nescio> were you able to measure intents?
Nov 24 21:04:07 <jasta> measure them?
Nov 24 21:04:26 <Nescio> the overhead?
Nov 24 21:04:56 <jasta> oh, i decided to pause the service programming for now.
Nov 24 21:05:07 <Nescio> ah
Nov 24 21:05:09 <jasta> for the first release, i may just not provide visual feedback of what the service is doing
Nov 24 21:05:23 <jasta> and handle locking in the provider to make sure the service and the ui don't trample on each other.
Nov 24 21:05:31 <Nescio> I still like the babe in bikini iea
Nov 24 21:05:38 <jasta> what babe?
Nov 24 21:06:16 <Nescio> Just flash a babe in bikini... the user wont care about the frequency of updates ;P
Nov 24 21:07:01 <Lede> what if it is a woman using the phone!
Nov 24 21:07:12 <wom-> they like babes too :)
Nov 24 21:08:00 * Lede shakes no
Nov 24 21:23:20 <Lede> sleep time for me
Nov 24 22:34:40 <haavi> anyone knows why it's not possible to instantiate a CompoundButton?
Nov 24 22:35:28 <haavi> it has a constructor taking Context context but I still can't do: CompoundButton cbButton = new CompoundButton(this);
Nov 24 22:40:18 <haavi> are you forced to use a subclass of it? like a radiobutton or checkbox?
Nov 24 22:44:10 <jerkface03> does anyone know what subset of jls android is using?
Nov 24 22:44:24 <jerkface03> java5 features? autoboxing/generics/etc..?
Nov 24 22:44:32 <duey> its an abstract class....
Nov 24 22:44:35 <duey> yeah java5 features
Nov 24 22:44:43 <duey> 1.5 or 1.6
Nov 24 22:44:53 <jerkface03> im not too sure what's new in 1.6
Nov 24 22:45:03 <jerkface03> i dont' think they added anything major in that
Nov 24 22:45:12 <duey> no nothing too major
Nov 24 22:45:15 <duey> some new classes
Nov 24 22:45:49 <dims> davidw: still around?
Nov 24 22:46:52 <haavi> I'm interested in what you found too dims..
Nov 24 22:47:02 <ad0le> Is there a way to start an app on Startup of the phone it's self. There is a section on services obviously, but it is still dependant on running the app the first time.
Nov 24 22:48:59 <duey> haavi: you need to extend compoundbutton
Nov 24 22:49:03 <duey>  Known Direct Subclasses
Nov 24 22:49:03 <duey> CheckBox, RadioButton
Nov 24 22:49:12 <jerkface03> hrm, i still haven't got down this api 100%
Nov 24 22:49:16 <jerkface03> i def need alot more practice
Nov 24 22:49:26 <haavi> ok duey thanks for clarifying that
Nov 24 22:49:29 <billmeltsner> ad0le: set up an IntentReceiver targeting BOOT_COMPLETED_ACTION
Nov 24 22:49:31 <jerkface03> an application is an activity? but 1 application can contain many activities?
Nov 24 22:49:44 <duey> an acitivity is like what you see on the screen
Nov 24 22:49:49 <ad0le> think of an activity as a screen
Nov 24 22:49:53 <jerkface03> no that's a view
Nov 24 22:49:53 <duey> think of it as a page in a book
Nov 24 22:50:02 <billmeltsner> No, that's an activity.
Nov 24 22:50:09 <jerkface03> well then what's a view?
Nov 24 22:50:23 <duey> something that goes in an acitivity
Nov 24 22:50:24 <billmeltsner> A view is what displays the stuff.
Nov 24 22:50:29 <billmeltsner> Like a TextView displays textl
Nov 24 22:50:31 <billmeltsner> *text.
Nov 24 22:50:33 <duey> activity = the page of a book
Nov 24 22:50:37 <duey> view = the ink of the text
Nov 24 22:50:51 <dims> haavi: see private message
Nov 24 22:51:03 <jerkface03> so is it possible for one activity to startup/communicate with another activity
Nov 24 22:51:04 <jerkface03> ?
Nov 24 22:51:07 <haavi> yeah, I answered it, didn't you get that?
Nov 24 22:51:13 <dims> nope
Nov 24 22:51:13 <duey> only one activity is active
Nov 24 22:51:14 <billmeltsner> Well, depends on the other activity.
Nov 24 22:51:16 <haavi> oh
Nov 24 22:51:26 <jerkface03> well, in general, i should only have 1 activity
Nov 24 22:51:26 <duey> i think you can have background ones
Nov 24 22:51:27 <jerkface03> right?
Nov 24 22:51:28 <duey> cant remember
Nov 24 22:51:31 <duey> yeah
Nov 24 22:51:35 <jerkface03> is it comparable to midlets in a midlet suite?
Nov 24 22:51:36 <billmeltsner> There are activities that run in the background, called Services.
Nov 24 22:51:40 <ad0le> does anyone know if there is a hook that will allow me to run my app on the startup of the phone?
Nov 24 22:51:51 <billmeltsner> [16:49]  <billmeltsner> ad0le: set up an IntentReceiver targeting BOOT_COMPLETED_ACTION
Nov 24 22:52:11 <ad0le> Thanks billmeltsner, didnt see that
Nov 24 22:52:14 <billmeltsner> it's cool
Nov 24 22:52:28 <haavi> dims: how is that possible then? I thought the only way for apps to share information with each other is through the ContentProviders
Nov 24 22:53:36 <ad0le> billmeltsner, is there a priority for BOOT_COMPLETED_ACTION IntentReceivers? i.e. can I request "least important" similar to threading
Nov 24 22:54:17 <duey> haavi: message passing.
Nov 24 22:55:03 <duey> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/os/Message.html
Nov 24 22:55:46 <billmeltsner> ad0le: I don't believe so.
Nov 24 22:55:49 <billmeltsner> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/IntentReceiver.html
Nov 24 22:56:52 <duey> we need a bot
Nov 24 22:57:02 <duey> !link IntentReceiver
Nov 24 22:58:45 <haavi> I fail to see how that class can expose a vulnerability
Nov 24 23:01:04 <haavi> you still need handlers for that so if my apps don't use them I shouldn't have to worry
Nov 24 23:01:38 <jerkface03> android compiles and places class files in a normal java .jar archive, right?
Nov 24 23:01:55 <jerkface03> is it possible to run code thru proguard and have it still run in the emulator?
Nov 24 23:02:09 <jerkface03> run classes rather
Nov 24 23:02:39 <haavi> places it in apk files I think
Nov 24 23:02:42 <billmeltsner> not a .jar
Nov 24 23:02:56 <billmeltsner> so no, no Proguard
Nov 24 23:03:16 <jerkface03> and apk is a custom format?
Nov 24 23:03:21 <billmeltsner> yep
Nov 24 23:03:22 <jerkface03> not documented anyhwere?
Nov 24 23:03:27 <duey> haavi: oh sorry i thought you were talking about something else
Nov 24 23:03:30 <billmeltsner> it doesn't even create .class files; it creates .dex files instead
Nov 24 23:03:52 <billmeltsner> no, APK is the Android application packaging system
Nov 24 23:03:56 <billmeltsner> it'll probably be documented at some point, but not yet
Nov 24 23:04:03 <duey> its a zip file
Nov 24 23:04:16 <duey> just unzip it
Nov 24 23:04:17 <haavi> I was talking about the vulnerability that dims supposedly have found
Nov 24 23:04:19 <jerkface03> ya i just figured that out right now
Nov 24 23:04:21 <duey> will have al the dex files in it
Nov 24 23:04:24 <jerkface03> by looking at it in a text editor
Nov 24 23:04:25 <duey> haavi: yeah i wasn't :o)
Nov 24 23:04:27 <jerkface03> pk header
Nov 24 23:04:27 <jerkface03> lol
Nov 24 23:04:31 <duey> thought you were talking abotu services
Nov 24 23:05:01 <jerkface03> so how about the dex files, hwo similar are they to class files?
Nov 24 23:05:07 <duey> fairly
Nov 24 23:05:15 <duey> its just an optimized bytecode
Nov 24 23:05:27 <jerkface03> optimized and obfuscated or just optimized?
Nov 24 23:05:33 <duey> optimized
Nov 24 23:05:56 <jerkface03> what kind of optimizations are used? just normal peephole optimizations? simplifying push/pops on the stack?
Nov 24 23:06:07 <duey> no idea
Nov 24 23:06:17 <duey> i think you can dl the source
Nov 24 23:06:36 <jerkface03> *shrug*
Nov 24 23:06:37 <jerkface03> k
Nov 24 23:06:39 <jerkface03> thx
Nov 24 23:06:46 <duey> oh maybe not
Nov 24 23:06:55 <duey> na you can't get it
Nov 24 23:07:03 <jerkface03> don't care that much
Nov 24 23:07:10 <jerkface03> as long as there's some form of optimization
Nov 24 23:07:41 <haavi> there's lots of optimization man
Nov 24 23:08:21 <haavi> dalvik is super fast
Nov 24 23:09:03 <jerkface03> dalvik?
Nov 24 23:09:42 <billmeltsner> the VM used by android
Nov 24 23:09:56 <jerkface03> what's the vm have to do with bytecode optimizations
Nov 24 23:10:06 <jerkface03> does it optimize on the fly?
Nov 24 23:10:32 <billmeltsner> well, the VM doesn't optimize
Nov 24 23:10:48 <billmeltsner> but the file format it runs (.dex) is optimized for minimal memory footprint and the like
Nov 24 23:10:59 <meus> dalvik reads .dex files that are compiled from .class files
Nov 24 23:10:59 <jerkface03> fair enough
Nov 24 23:11:11 <billmeltsner> Every Android application runs in its own process, with its own instance of the Dalvik virtual machine. Dalvik has been written so that a device can run multiple VMs efficiently. The Dalvik VM executes files in the Dalvik Executable (.dex) format which is optimized for minimal memory footprint. The VM is register-based, and runs classes compiled by a Java language compiler that have been transformed into the .dex format by
Nov 24 23:11:11 <billmeltsner> the included "dx" tool.
Nov 24 23:13:30 <davidw> dims, yeah, still around
Nov 24 23:17:52 <CM> billmeltsner: I think that quick benchmark thing was pretty neat
Nov 24 23:18:29 <CM> Dalvik was about 28 times slower than optimised C code, and Sun java 1.6 was 40 times slower, for that particular piece of code
Nov 24 23:18:43 <CM> (non jit that is)
Nov 24 23:20:45 <jerkface03> yes
Nov 24 23:21:07 <jerkface03> and who still runs their java apps with the interpreted flag?
Nov 24 23:21:47 <jerkface03> there are already processors out that support direct bytecode execution
Nov 25 00:39:56 <ad0le> How can I draw an icon in the top bar for my service?
Nov 25 00:48:00 <Nescio> like a statusbar icon?
Nov 25 00:48:47 <Nescio> Look at the Statusbar notification in the api demos
Nov 25 00:55:58 <ad0le> thanks
Nov 25 01:26:29 <jerkface03> is there any way to store data without using the sqlite database?
Nov 25 01:29:19 <ad0le> you could use xml files
Nov 25 01:29:48 <ad0le> but, once you get used to SQLite, its really easy
Nov 25 01:32:15 <jerkface03> hrmph
Nov 25 01:32:19 <jerkface03> alot of this seems like overkill
Nov 25 01:32:30 <jerkface03> a sql engine and all this abstraction on a device that's probably only going to have 800kb of memory on it
Nov 25 01:33:15 <haavi> if you only needs to store something for the time the application runs you can use getSharedPreferences
Nov 25 01:33:42 <jerkface03> there's no file system?
Nov 25 01:34:48 <haavi> http://code.google.com/android/devel/data.html
Nov 25 01:34:53 <haavi> that lists your options
Nov 25 01:35:21 <haavi> of course there's a file system =)
Nov 25 01:36:18 <yango> you can even get a busybox there
Nov 25 01:42:11 <ad0le> jerkface03, just so you know, SQLite isnt exactly and engine in the way that MSSQL, Oracle and even MySQL is. It doesnt need a process to run, its just an API to a text file that ACTS like an RDBMS
Nov 25 01:43:03 <haavi> yeah, and I think the phones will have more than 800kb of memory too
Nov 25 01:43:16 <haavi> that sounds abit small
Nov 25 01:43:31 <Luniv> lol, I'd hope they'd have more
Nov 25 01:44:29 <ad0le> well, seeing as the android bundle itself is 8 meg, I would agree :)
Nov 25 01:46:05 <jerkface03> well
Nov 25 01:46:15 <jerkface03> i mean the average java phone right now has around 800kb heapspace
Nov 25 01:46:22 <jerkface03> you can do alot of stuff with 800kb tho
Nov 25 01:46:26 <Stephmw> jerkface03: Google have been clear that Android is for smartphone-class devices
Nov 25 01:46:43 <ad0le> the emulator has 256 meg
Nov 25 01:46:44 <jerkface03> orly? where do they say that?
Nov 25 01:46:58 <Stephmw> jerkface03: in their presentation at Futur of Mobile in London last week
Nov 25 01:47:03 <Stephmw> *Future
Nov 25 01:47:10 * Stephmw was there
Nov 25 01:47:29 <jerkface03> aha well
Nov 25 01:47:32 <jerkface03> that's good news i guess
Nov 25 01:48:14 <Stephmw> they also showed that they're expecting others to provide J2ME support, it's not their problem
Nov 25 01:48:27 <Stephmw> I'm guessing Esmertec & Co. will step in there
Nov 25 01:49:41 <jerkface03> so in essence, if i really wanted to, i could have 1 activity with 1 custom view that did everything (if i wasn't doing any background processing)
Nov 25 01:51:09 <Stephmw> ad0le: Incidentally, I've made good use of hsqldb on a similar class device to what they're expecting Android to run on
Nov 25 01:51:50 <Stephmw> ad0le: turned out that SD was faster than phone flash for the db files ;)
Nov 25 01:53:25 <Luniv> does anyone have any tips on how to get logcat in Eclipse to stay connected to the phone?
Nov 25 01:54:32 <jerkface03> is that hte only way i can get access to pretty much a blank canvas to draw stuff on?
Nov 25 01:55:11 <haavi> I'm having trouble with that too Luniv :(
Nov 25 01:55:28 <Luniv> haavi: damn :(
Nov 25 01:55:33 <haavi> it's very sporadic, only logs now and then
Nov 25 01:55:58 <Luniv> I've just given up and used a xterm with adb logcat :s
Nov 25 02:01:00 <Stephmw> jerkface03: no idea, sorry
Nov 25 02:12:36 <yango> do you know how to get an emulated console on windows? I've been trying to but I only get a # where I can't issue any command
Nov 25 02:13:09 <Nescio> adb shell
Nov 25 02:14:41 <yango> thx
Nov 25 02:14:46 <Nescio> np gl
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 25 02:59:56 2007