**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 25 02:59:56 2007 Nov 25 03:37:29 Hey is anyone around Nov 25 03:37:43 is there a way to reset android system to it default Nov 25 03:37:51 like wipe databases and all files. Nov 25 03:40:21 -wipe-data Nov 25 03:41:32 one the Additional Emulator Command Line Options section of the DEBUG view Nov 25 03:45:31 ad0le: on which tool Nov 25 04:06:26 in your debug configuration Nov 25 04:51:30 hey! Nov 25 04:52:52 hello Nov 25 05:21:31 Hello everyone Nov 25 05:22:44 hello Nov 25 05:26:55 how you doing Nescio Nov 25 05:28:32 I'm alright, what are you up to? Nov 25 05:29:08 Trying to get a better understanding of the adapters Nov 25 05:30:12 I been trying to get a ListView to display a ImageView and TextView but have not got it to work yet. Nov 25 05:31:31 http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/twitter-client-for-android-how-to-make-xml-over-http-calls/ like that? Nov 25 05:32:57 Yes thanks Nescio Nov 25 05:33:18 yw Nov 25 05:36:56 I cant get my IntentReceiver to work properly. Nov 25 05:36:59 nvm Nescio he is using a WebView to pull it off twitter servers Nov 25 05:37:25 Shouldnt an IntentReceiver work even if the app is not started Nov 25 05:37:26 lol Nov 25 05:37:33 oops sorry Nov 25 05:37:39 Nescio, its okay Nov 25 05:37:43 ad0le: it should Nov 25 05:38:10 if(intent.getAction().equals(Intent.BOOT_COMPLETED_ACTION)) { Nov 25 05:38:11 context.startService(new Intent(context,TrackStatsDaemon.class), null); Nov 25 05:38:11 } Nov 25 05:38:12 ad0le: it should start the app if its not running Nov 25 05:38:29 Im trying to start a service on boot Nov 25 05:38:52 well what is calling the activity to start the service Nov 25 05:39:23 the service is standalone Nov 25 05:39:42 yea but you are starting the service in an activity correct? Nov 25 05:39:59 no, hopefully from the IntentReceiver Nov 25 05:40:06 on boot Nov 25 05:40:47 ad0le: can you show me you android manifest Nov 25 05:40:59 sure Nov 25 05:42:40 http://pastebin.com/m2505d8e4 Nov 25 05:43:59 where are you running the if statement? in your onCreate method in the TrackStats activity Nov 25 05:44:19 in the .TrackStatsHandler Nov 25 05:45:11 onReceiveIntent method (pasted above) Nov 25 05:46:07 basically, I want to create an IntentReceiver that looks for the BOOT_COMPLETED_ACTION and starts a Service... Nov 25 05:46:41 Yeah Nov 25 05:46:46 The app itself, doesnt need to be called, it's optional Nov 25 05:47:23 I dont think this # Nov 25 05:47:23 Nov 25 05:47:23 # Nov 25 05:47:23 Nov 25 05:47:23 # Nov 25 05:47:24 will do that for you Nov 25 05:47:35 sorry didn't mean to paste here Nov 25 05:47:53 MAIN will not call it on boot Nov 25 05:47:54 that is the application itself Nov 25 05:48:10 I dont want to start the app on boot Nov 25 05:49:07 well in the manifest there are no more intent filters Nov 25 05:49:09 My understanding is that an IntentReceiver will receive messages from the OS regardless of rather the app is running... correct? Nov 25 05:49:16 Yeah Nov 25 05:49:24 that my understanding Nov 25 05:49:42 the service should also have intent filters Nov 25 05:49:47 set to android.intent.action.BOOT_COMPLETED Nov 25 05:53:42 hey ad0le take a look at the doc for a receiver, that where you should be setting the intent filter Nov 25 05:55:06 cool, looking now Nov 25 05:58:09 w00000000ttt!!!!! Nov 25 06:06:10 ad0le: Nov 25 06:06:12 did that work Nov 25 06:06:14 :) Nov 25 06:12:55 yup... got all 3 parts working now Nov 25 06:13:12 Activity, IntentReceiver and Service Nov 25 06:13:20 All happening on boot Nov 25 06:13:42 ad0le: seem like your having a better night then I Nov 25 06:13:44 :) Nov 25 06:14:09 mabey I can help... Nov 25 06:14:37 Well I have to figure out how to create my own view Nov 25 06:15:14 ??? You cant just inherit the class? Nov 25 06:15:18 I need to do something like this http://underdev.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/android-list.png Nov 25 06:15:55 vbabiy: does your cursor contain the image? Nov 25 06:15:56 I can just have not yet tried :) Nov 25 06:16:02 is that a mock up? Nov 25 06:16:15 ad0le: that is some one else's work Nov 25 06:16:28 Nescio, yes Nov 25 06:16:43 kk Nov 25 06:16:43 look at the RemoteView Nov 25 07:26:25 is there a Timer that has a prototype of (FireValueInMinutes, FireMethod) Nov 25 07:27:02 I cant seem to find a Timer that will fire a method ... say, every 15 mins Nov 25 07:27:46 So write your own! Nov 25 07:28:42 :) Ive never touched Java before, Im a C# guy. Just trying to to reinvent the wheel if I dont have to Nov 25 07:28:50 not to* Nov 25 07:29:03 Heh. Nov 25 07:30:05 ... Nov 25 07:30:06 so, not withstanding writing a new class, is there a timer that has an OnFire event? Nov 25 07:30:12 yes there are timers Nov 25 07:30:22 I don't see why java.util.Timer won't serve your purposes Nov 25 07:31:14 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/util/ResettableTimeout.html Nov 25 07:31:18 also that one Nov 25 07:32:34 One more question... since the IntentReceiver runs in its own thread, there is no need to create my timer object in a seperate thread. agree? Nov 25 07:32:48 my timer runs an a service Nov 25 07:33:05 Services run in the main thread Nov 25 07:33:11 so creating a new thread is a good idea Nov 25 07:33:17 particularly if it's computationally intensive Nov 25 07:33:59 it calls a webservice based on a settable PollingInterval, which would require even ANOTHER thread Nov 25 07:34:31 Threads are fun! Nov 25 07:36:26 crap, this is tough Nov 25 07:39:14 * duey is having a wtf moment over the assasins creed ending Nov 25 07:40:00 damn you finished that game already? Nov 25 07:40:06 didn't it come out like 2 days ago? Nov 25 07:40:10 ya Nov 25 07:40:16 3 days Nov 25 07:40:25 mind you not full time for three days Nov 25 07:40:39 probably took 15 hours? Nov 25 07:40:42 maybe more Nov 25 07:41:00 played for 8 hours today Nov 25 07:41:08 awesome game Nov 25 07:41:57 actully Nov 25 07:42:00 i think its more like 20 hours Nov 25 07:42:11 I wish I had a PS3 Nov 25 07:42:11 lol Nov 25 07:42:14 Then again Nov 25 07:42:24 you can buy it on xbox too Nov 25 07:42:27 I wish I had the 600 dollars to buy a PS3 so I could spend them on something worthwhile Nov 25 07:42:27 i have ps3 though Nov 25 07:42:45 heh Nov 25 07:43:40 not many games on ps3 though Nov 25 07:43:45 hopefully it will get better Nov 25 07:43:48 now that its cheaper Nov 25 07:45:04 the ending was pretty lame Nov 25 07:45:16 good endings are hard Nov 25 07:45:23 wish they added another 10 minutes of explaining Nov 25 07:45:33 this was reallly bad Nov 25 07:45:42 it was like wAtching a lost season finale Nov 25 07:45:50 but without the big boom Nov 25 07:45:54 wow Nov 25 07:45:59 this is some super relevant android discussion going on Nov 25 07:46:11 yeah...games work on android right? Nov 25 07:46:14 yep Nov 25 07:46:21 although assassins creed, not so much Nov 25 07:46:25 lol Nov 25 07:46:32 they might make a mobile version! Nov 25 07:46:38 heh Nov 25 07:46:46 that's... actually not a bad idea Nov 25 07:46:51 especially with android capabilities Nov 25 07:46:58 speaking of which, i still need to find a good fast way to draw on a blank canvas in android Nov 25 07:47:02 i personally can't stand games on phones Nov 25 07:47:09 gps-based assassination... when you get near someone playing it, they appear on screen and you can STABBITYSTABSTABKILL Nov 25 07:47:09 using SurfaceView maybe? Nov 25 07:47:14 jerkface03: Paint? Nov 25 07:47:36 well im not too sure if you can just paint, you need to attach some sort of view first? Nov 25 07:47:50 not sure Nov 25 07:48:08 to draw on a canvas Nov 25 07:48:11 you use paint Nov 25 07:48:20 and to draw on paper Nov 25 07:48:22 you use crayons Nov 25 07:50:34 im still trying to clunk my way around this new platform Nov 25 09:35:01 ugh Nov 25 09:35:08 this adapter crap is a mess Nov 25 11:20:31 is it possible to run android in a virtual machine on ubuntu to test it out? Nov 25 11:22:33 niklauz: that's what the SDK provides Nov 25 11:49:19 hi * Nov 25 11:51:18 hello andreaf Nov 25 11:51:29 hi lele Nov 25 11:51:40 lede sorry Nov 25 12:08:29 timers and cursors dont seem to get along well together Nov 25 13:55:44 morning Nov 25 14:03:32 Morning :D Nov 25 15:14:59 Thread.close() is depreciated? Nov 25 15:21:47 hello, I've declared a private class in my program but when I run it I get an error saying "have you declared it in the Manifest?" Nov 25 15:21:59 so.. how should it be declared there? Nov 25 15:24:14 anyone knows? Nov 25 15:27:33 Hi everyone Nov 25 15:27:55 I still get an error like com.google.android.providers.contacts is not responding on start Nov 25 15:28:02 what is this about? Nov 25 15:29:09 lnxnt, I get com.google.android.providers.media Nov 25 15:29:17 but all seems to work fine.. Nov 25 15:47:03 Good Morning all Nov 25 15:58:28 no one can help? Nov 25 15:59:21 bas0: Western US, weekdays is the best time to ask tbh, that's when the google guys are online Nov 25 15:59:27 bas0: or ask on the mailing list Nov 25 16:00:12 ok.. :/ Nov 25 16:01:36 Stephmw: where can i sign up for the mailing list Nov 25 16:03:42 bas0, as i understand it you shouldnt need to declare private classes in the manifest. the manifest is just for letting android know where ot find classes it needs to use directly, like IntentReceivers or an applications MAIN Nov 25 16:04:19 if its just some internal class android itself shouldn't care Nov 25 16:04:36 bas0, if your class extends Activity you have to define it however Nov 25 16:05:07 like Nov 25 16:05:19 or whatever name your class has Nov 25 16:06:09 mmh.. Nov 25 16:06:22 vbabiy: link's in the topic Nov 25 16:06:23 I always get that error:( Nov 25 16:06:44 you're doing something wrong :D Nov 25 16:06:54 haavi, heeheheh.. Nov 25 16:07:23 you sure its talking about your private class, maybe its somethig else you forgot to declare Nov 25 16:09:38 I get: "An error has occurred in process com.google.android. Unable to find explicit activity class {com.google.android/com.google.android.app$myClass}; have you declared this activity in your AndroidManifest.xml?. Nov 25 16:10:09 app is my program name and myClass is that class.. Nov 25 16:10:32 that looks like a package problem... what package are you sticking your class in? Nov 25 16:10:35 sounds like you havent made, or declared any Activity for your app Nov 25 16:11:14 yeah, or the package does look a bit odd Nov 25 16:12:11 package="com.google.android" Nov 25 16:14:28 uhm, that's the package you're using for your application? Nov 25 16:14:33 or what? Nov 25 16:15:09 yes! Nov 25 16:15:44 so at the top of your classes you've got package com.google.android? Nov 25 16:17:03 yes! Nov 25 16:18:25 mmh.. I've fixed the problem by creating a myClass.java file Nov 25 16:18:53 you should use another package name that isn't in the com.google namespace Nov 25 16:19:04 okay Nov 25 16:19:06 but it's not what I want, shit! Nov 25 16:20:36 haavi, thanks for your help Nov 25 16:26:44 I wish the would have randomized the fake GPS cords for the LocationManager Nov 25 16:29:58 Anyone seen any SSL over android.net or webkit examples? Nov 25 17:56:12 * Stephmw should really know better than to read the mailing list... Nov 25 17:57:08 I wish gmail had a button for 'mark all unread as read' Nov 25 17:58:44 odd that the sample apps don't have build.xml files Nov 25 17:59:31 davidw: agreed on gmail Nov 25 17:59:50 davidw: it's doable though Nov 25 18:00:21 davidw: select: All, select All Conversations, dropdown->mark read Nov 25 18:00:49 yeah I know, it's just...repetitive Nov 25 18:02:14 hi everybody Nov 25 18:03:08 Is there a plugin with Eclipse with the completion of a XML file ? Nov 25 18:14:14 the schema hasn't ben released yet Nov 25 18:15:28 yeah a few times i've had to guess valid values until the error went away lol Nov 25 18:16:40 I wonder if I create a layout with every attribute, and then fed it into .Net, if it would spit out a proper schedma Nov 25 18:58:06 haavi,davidw: ping - posted details to android-internals Nov 25 19:20:01 hello Nov 25 19:20:14 is there a way to show strack traces from the android emulator? Nov 25 19:20:21 I can't seem to figure it out Nov 25 19:20:26 dims: are those providers Google's? or did you set them up yourself? Nov 25 19:20:31 strack traces from debugging programs Nov 25 19:20:57 you can view that kind of thing with the ddms debugging tool Nov 25 19:21:45 is there a 64bit ddms tool? Nov 25 19:22:01 cos I'm running under x64 Nov 25 19:23:04 i dont know about that. i believe its written in java anyway so it shouldnt matter Nov 25 19:23:18 you can also access it from eclipse with the android plugin by opening the ddms perspective Nov 25 19:25:02 ah.. I see.. thanks! Nov 25 19:25:23 google's Nov 25 19:28:39 how do I enable thread updates for the selected client? Nov 25 19:29:56 ah figured it out Nov 25 19:30:15 this is really useful, cheers Nov 25 19:34:37 why can't I find those providers in the docs then? Nov 25 19:34:41 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/package-summary.html Nov 25 19:36:08 I'm gonna see what your gtalk app does too Nov 25 19:42:16 hm.. I still can't get it to output a stack trace.. is there a way in Java of not catching exceptions and escalating them up the stack so the debugger can recieve them? Nov 25 19:42:39 am quite new to all this, apologies Nov 25 19:49:17 well you can use the "throws" keyword to let the exception pop all the way up to the vm. but if you open the standard "debug" perspective in eclipse i think you can get live view of the stack that way Nov 25 19:51:03 or you could call printStackTrace() on your exception in your catch, but i'm not sure if android has a normal console Nov 25 19:51:17 i've only done a little android debugging myself lol Nov 25 19:51:54 yeah content://googleaccounts/accounts/ and content://settings/googlelogin exposes your password Nov 25 19:53:58 haavi: feature? i don't think so :) Nov 25 19:54:15 cool find dims Nov 25 19:54:50 I like the app too, could come in handy for other stuff Nov 25 19:54:56 yep Nov 25 19:55:04 thanks.. is there a System.debug.println statement in Java? Nov 25 19:55:20 or an equivalent Nov 25 19:58:09 system.println? Nov 25 19:58:09 android.util.Log.i("MyApp","MyMessage") Nov 25 19:58:32 dims, ok, I'll take a look Nov 25 19:59:17 System.err.println() prints to the error stream Nov 25 19:59:31 which in netbeans at least highlights it in red, yay lol Nov 25 20:05:13 ah, ace, thanks Nov 25 20:07:47 * dims just found dexdump! Nov 25 21:00:53 How long do you have to wait for HelloWorld to show up? I launched it, get the software emulator screen, it displays Android and then this red dot starts going back and fourth but no text is displayed? Nov 25 21:02:29 Matrix9: that screen is the phone's boot sequence. Nov 25 21:03:11 Matrix9: something is wrong if it takes on the order of minutes to clear. Nov 25 21:04:17 yeah that confused me for a while too Nov 25 21:04:37 Is there any log I can check to see whats holding the thing up then? Nov 25 21:04:47 Matrix9: you could try adb logcat Nov 25 21:04:55 i think its normal though Nov 25 21:05:23 Matrix9: are you saying that after any lenght of time, it is still showing the red bar moving back and forth? Nov 25 21:06:03 yup, just sits there doing nothing, I followed the instructions, in their doc to run HelloWorld, it launched the emu, but nothing happens after that Nov 25 21:06:25 Matrix9: Try adb logcat and possibly look at the Google Groups discussions for help. This is not intended behaviour, of course. Nov 25 21:06:35 on purpose I even made an error in the code, and the emu refuses to launch, so that portion is running properly. Nov 25 21:06:54 Matrix9: Try instead running the emulator with just the command emulator. Nov 25 21:07:01 so has anyone tried building android for the FIC GTA01 phone? Nov 25 21:07:01 it is located in the tools/ folder of the SDK. Nov 25 21:07:30 hozer: many people have tried many things. look at the google groups forum android-internals Nov 25 21:10:14 jasta, yup same behavior by just running it on command line too. Just sits there with the red dot going back and fourth. Nov 25 21:11:35 how long did you give it? Nov 25 21:12:12 My Machine is old, its only 1.7 gigs, that won't meet mininum specs? Nov 25 21:12:19 gigs=ghz Nov 25 21:12:28 Matrix9: that should be sufficient, something else is wrong. Nov 25 21:12:44 Matrix9: the qemu layer is obviously malfunctioning. again, try adb logcat and check the forums. Nov 25 21:13:08 is there a way to save a file from the web browser? Nov 25 21:13:14 you might try killing any adb processes and rerunning it Nov 25 21:13:25 that helped once for me Nov 25 21:21:58 cybereagle, ok restarted by machine, and just tried running the emulator only, same thing... would the adb logcat still apply then? i'm not even debugging anything, just tried to run the emu now Nov 25 21:22:18 what I want to do is to log in to a site automatically, download a file, and do some processing on that file Nov 25 21:22:30 I placed the emu in c:\android\androidsdk could it be some path issue? Nov 25 21:23:07 davmonster: if the user is not involved, you don't want to use the web browser. Nov 25 21:23:22 davmonster: instead, think mechanizing. you should use HttpClient to do that. Nov 25 21:23:37 is there a way of doing it in Android and maintaining session state automatically? Nov 25 21:23:54 session state? you mean managing a cookie jar? Nov 25 21:23:57 yeah Nov 25 21:24:26 That I don't know, but I suspect that Apache has thought about it already. See: http://jakarta.apache.org/httpcomponents/httpclient-3.x/ Nov 25 21:24:57 It seems that in fact it does support a cookie jar; see the Features link on the page I just sent you to. Nov 25 21:25:30 BTW, HttpClient is included in the bundled SDK under org.apache.commons. Nov 25 21:25:35 ah, many thanks Nov 25 21:26:09 remember to perform this function in a separate thread from the main UI thread, btw. Nov 25 21:27:44 Matrix9: adb tuns every time you start up the emulator regardless of whether your debugging. sometimes it seems to get "stuck", but if you restarted that should clear that up, so you must have another issue. i cant really say what. i suppose you could delete your img and start completely fresh but its a shot in the dark Nov 25 21:29:00 the img is in: C:\Documents and Settings\\Local Settings\Application Data\Android Nov 25 21:29:18 deleting it will recreate it fresh, but like i say, its a shot in the dark Nov 25 21:29:20 * jasta shutters Nov 25 21:29:25 you guys are developing on Windows? :) Nov 25 21:29:31 ew Nov 25 21:29:41 its java, whats the difference ;) Nov 25 21:29:53 cybereagle: your brains, mostly. Nov 25 21:30:06 lol i use linux and windows about equally Nov 25 21:30:27 hehe, i'm just joking. Nov 25 21:30:41 haha, I know, I haven't had time to upgrade my server, going with unbuntu and then I was hoping to setup a linux vmware machone on that system for develping Nov 25 21:30:53 although, it does frighten me a bit that the Windows mentality will bleed into this community :) Nov 25 21:31:12 dont worry, i dont have the windows mentality hehe Nov 25 21:31:42 i already got a taste of it a couple of nights ago about some guy unwilling to share portions of his source code so that we might explore the platform collaboratively. Nov 25 21:32:15 well there's always some people like that, but android is pretty open by design so things cant go TOO wrong Nov 25 21:32:23 plus its pretty trivial to decompile java *cough* Nov 25 21:33:22 all i'll say is that it will be interesting to see how this turns out. currently, the thought of releasing open source cell phone software could not be more alien to this entire industry. Nov 25 21:33:23 cybereagle, well for whatever reason that worked, this time the emu kicked in, tried running eclipse project again, this time it launched, but said application not responding or something, clicked on wait and the helloworld showed up Nov 25 21:33:46 yay! Nov 25 21:33:52 Thanks Nov 25 21:37:39 jasta: well i'm totally new to the mobile world. i just saw a cool opportunity to easily make my phone do whatever i like. i'd guess you'll get 2 classes of people interested, the usual mobile crowed, and completely new people from the general open source world Nov 25 21:38:10 cybereagle: that's what i'm thinking too, actually. a new community will hopefully move in to substantially offset the existing one. Nov 25 21:38:28 I think we'll get 10 types of people... Nov 25 21:38:35 i intentionally avoided mobile development waiting for something like Android to come along. Nov 25 21:39:49 i have a bunch of ideas for little apps that arent totally suited to a phone i wanna make just so i can say "look what my phone does!" lol Nov 25 21:40:08 haha Nov 25 21:40:24 i'm hoping to have the first release of my RSS reader tonight. Nov 25 21:40:41 jasta: nice Nov 25 21:40:58 after which, i will probably draft a tutorial to go along with it. Nov 25 21:41:30 right now i'm just hammering out all the small UI details Nov 25 21:41:47 i wanted to release something that didn't feel like a test, but actually had complete elements throughout. Nov 25 21:41:47 look foward to it :) Nov 25 21:41:52 i've not done much with my ui yet, i've been hammering away at the back end Nov 25 21:42:54 yeah realistic examples would be welcome. the existing demos are a bit too "demoish" to help when your trying to get your head around the architecture of an android app Nov 25 21:44:02 well, if i want to hit my goal of release tonight i'd better get back to work Nov 25 21:44:11 there are still 2 big things that need to be finished. Nov 25 21:52:37 jasta, what are you working on? Nov 25 21:53:03 at this moment? an RSS reader application. Nov 25 21:53:34 ah Nov 25 21:57:17 dims, you really seem to have taken an interest in Android:-) Nov 25 21:57:40 seems sort of distant from the world of WS-* in some ways Nov 25 21:59:04 jasta, heh, glad you said that... because I was going to write a quick little RSS app, but now that you are I don't need to : ) Nov 25 21:59:12 (Cross that one off my list of ideas for the code challenge) Nov 25 21:59:43 yeah, I think something a bit more unique would be a good idea:-) Nov 25 22:01:05 FunnyLookinHat: that's what you were going to do for the android challenge? oh boy :) Nov 25 22:01:25 I think Google is thinking just a bit "bigger" than an app you could write in a week. Nov 25 22:02:03 davidw: hmm? WS-*? dims? Nov 25 22:04:55 i'm working on an IM and IRC client (kinda like pidgin), but i also have a big list of dream features that use random android api's to do fun stuff with your contacts etc Nov 25 22:05:07 but i dunno if i'll get to any of those features... we'll see lol Nov 25 22:05:57 my first thought when i heard of android was "i need an irc client" Nov 25 22:06:13 IM might be a little more practical :) Nov 25 22:06:32 yeah, but i NEED an irc client ;) Nov 25 22:06:42 that would be pretty fun though Nov 25 22:06:46 great way to kill time :) Nov 25 22:08:34 gotta satisfy my irc cravings on the move somehow Nov 25 22:09:03 there's idling to be done! hehe Nov 25 22:12:26 its cool though cos in designing a set of broadcast Intents its basicaly making a generic IM language, so you could swap different UI's or Service implementations in and out Nov 25 22:12:50 android ftw! lol Nov 25 22:14:24 I'll be happier when I see actual phones Nov 25 22:16:43 davidw: it actually looks like benno's gotten close to installing Android on the Neo1973/OpenMoko phone. Nov 25 22:17:18 ok, sure... but I mean real phones backed by a big company selling them to average people Nov 25 22:17:25 he claims that the reason he can't complete the work is because Android is compiled for the ARMv5 instruction set, where the Neo1973 is an ARMv4 processor, so either emulation is required (too hard) or a recompilation of Android for the ARMv4 instruction set is needed. Nov 25 22:17:29 With Android source, the latter is possible. Nov 25 22:17:45 davidw: Are you skeptical that it will happen? Nov 25 22:17:45 I read that... and was very impressed Nov 25 22:17:51 jasta, no Nov 25 22:17:56 just holding my breath:-) Nov 25 22:18:23 Ahh, well, Google is really asking us to take a chance on this one :) Nov 25 22:18:33 i'm more concerned they're gonna put put new sdk releases that drastically break my code Nov 25 22:18:34 I, for one, am opting to take that chance. Nov 25 22:18:48 cybereagle: they probably will, as a matter of fact. Nov 25 22:19:05 but how is that unlike participation in any other emerging development community? Nov 25 22:19:13 true Nov 25 22:19:17 java really sucks at times, I have to say ... it makes easy things difficult and difficult things impossible Nov 25 22:19:48 jasta, I hope they open source it quick, though... that makes me more tollerant of any fiddling or bugs Nov 25 22:19:54 Java was an appropriate choice for this platform, especially considering who made the choice. Nov 25 22:20:14 davidw: Agreed. The source needs to come by or on the new year. Nov 25 22:20:20 i like coding in java. its running java i'm not a huge fan of. but on a phone its not so much of a big deal Nov 25 22:20:25 Any delays beyond that point cannot be excused. Nov 25 22:21:13 well the google people in here seem pretty responsive and recptive anyway Nov 25 22:21:14 If they want us to really take their gamble and develop for a platform based on the promises of what it can be, they need to at least help us out with all the tools necessary. Nov 25 22:21:29 the source is a big tool :) Nov 25 22:21:44 i think they want US to write apps to help convince the big boys hehe Nov 25 22:21:59 yeah Nov 25 22:24:00 I have latched onto Android for the same reason I've latched onto GNU/Linux. I don't want politics to get in the way of having the computing experience I require. Nov 25 22:25:33 i think it will come out ok Nov 25 22:25:35 But seriously, I'm gonna need the source soon :) Nov 25 22:28:55 cell phones are all about politics, unfortunately Nov 25 22:30:16 davidw: maybe not for long :) Nov 25 22:30:24 the iPhone starts something very big in the political arena. Nov 25 22:30:28 started* Nov 25 22:30:38 hah Nov 25 22:30:46 i just got done reading the android performance page Nov 25 22:30:56 a manufacturer got a rare chance to really kick the carrier around. Nov 25 22:31:09 let's hope that continues :) Nov 25 22:31:13 it basically told me to do what i've already been doing with java apps on limited devices for the past 3 years Nov 25 22:31:45 so .... what the heck is the holdup to get source so someone can recompile for the FIC Neo phone? Nov 25 22:31:53 is it politics because FIC isn't a partner? Nov 25 22:32:19 no, i don't think the source release has anything to do with our ability to load it onto existing handsets. Nov 25 22:32:20 * hozer wants to see this BSD libc as well Nov 25 22:32:40 i think the source is being held up because they didn't think this through all the way and there is some proprietary code in there that someone's getting squeemish about showing. Nov 25 22:32:51 or perhaps there are patent infringement issues with that code going open. Nov 25 22:33:01 geez Nov 25 22:33:03 at the very least they could open portions of it, like all the UI code should be open. Nov 25 22:33:23 if you pester a google engineer enough, they might spill the beans :) Nov 25 22:33:44 like accidentally pasting an link to an open dir they "forgot" about :O ;) Nov 25 22:33:45 lots of the core developer talent that google is trying to get interested in this is writing this project off because of no source Nov 25 22:34:02 They had said it was because the existing code contains bugs and they don't want to support/allow exploitation of existing bugs until the product is more stable. Nov 25 22:34:42 Que: also a valid excuse, and one I'm willing to accept for now. Nov 25 22:34:50 well what are you gonna exploit, an emulator? i know it has access to the internet but overall who cares if it can be exploited, theres no real devices Nov 25 22:34:56 But really, the Android developer challenge is scheduled to start in January, right? By then, we must have source. Nov 25 22:35:20 "No, our SDK (tm) lets you do everything we could possible want you to do" Nov 25 22:35:22 cybereagle: I think that he's referring to exploiting code that is unstable and subject to change, therefore breaking your app in unusual and unpredictable ways. Nov 25 22:35:28 ... sorry, I'm being overly cynical Nov 25 22:35:30 well i think they;re definately planning on releasing the source, be a big PR blunder if they didnt now Nov 25 22:35:40 exactly Nov 25 22:35:56 jasta, ahh, yeah i come from a hacker/security background, my ears pricked up :P Nov 25 22:36:18 personally.... if I were a google stockholder, I'd be very happy with their strategy so far Nov 25 22:36:44 and it would be to their advantage to hold off source as long as possible Nov 25 22:36:44 it makes sense business wise. as a pure dev of course i'd like the source, but i think what they're doing makes sense, so i live with it Nov 25 22:36:51 or leave some important parts as proprietary Nov 25 22:37:36 i don't think that would be in their best interest, ultimately. Nov 25 22:37:40 maybe for the short term. Nov 25 22:37:52 right... but managers and stockholders only think short term Nov 25 22:37:58 anyway, i'm going to go back to coding :) Nov 25 22:38:06 i like working with this platform hehe Nov 25 22:38:19 * hozer agrees, and goes back to kernel hacking on his openmoko phone :P Nov 25 22:38:22 so do i now i've finished the java.nio part *shudder* Nov 25 22:38:47 I am quite interested in seeing this android platform on a real device I can make calls from Nov 25 22:39:18 i wonder if they'll send prototypes to the winners of the first half of the challenge Nov 25 22:42:59 snzzzz time for me Nov 25 22:43:41 jerkface03, of course it did - they're good principles. Lots of people interested in android may not have been j2me people. Nov 25 22:44:11 davidw: i remember the java fascists tellings me "wrong wrong wrong! no no no!" everytime i'd bring up one of these points Nov 25 22:44:37 either that or "thats useless! wrong wrong wrong! premature-optimization! blah blah balh rabble rabble rabble" Nov 25 22:44:49 jerkface03, j2me is pretty far removed from 'Java' Nov 25 22:45:04 which is actually one of the reasons I like it:-) Nov 25 22:45:06 except that it essentially is java Nov 25 22:45:24 java syntax + java bytecode = java Nov 25 22:45:38 you have to code like it matters... not like you can have 3434343 classes that implement some elaborate 'pattern' that abstracts eveything to architecture astronaut levels Nov 25 22:48:03 i found the tips useful, i've never programmed for a mobile device before Nov 25 22:49:01 cybereagle: they're very very good tips. i've gotten some pretty big performance boosts when i was doign mobile games at work using most of those same techniques Nov 25 22:59:35 does anyone have any thoughts on how to implement a somewhat custom layout which allows a single textview to wrap up to 2 lines, showing a second textview always on the second line aligned to the right of the layout? Nov 25 23:00:26 i'm thinking somehow that i could override RelativeLayout and implement some kind of goofy onLayout hook to position the right-hanging TextView and clip the main wrapping one... Nov 25 23:00:36 but i just can't imagine where to begin Nov 25 23:00:38 davidw: another few weeks...then i'll be back to "real" work :) Nov 25 23:01:55 source code to RelativeLayout sure would be useful :) Nov 25 23:03:32 jasta, its too late to think about actually how to do it, but nesting various layout objects should just about get you there for most things Nov 25 23:03:48 cybereagle: huh? Nov 25 23:05:36 obviously its late enough for me to stop making sense hehe Nov 25 23:07:27 get the height of the textview on the left and then push down the one on the right by padding its top with height of textview/2 Nov 25 23:07:32 :D Nov 25 23:09:13 well, the TextView also needs graceful clipping, like adding an ellipsis to the end of the text. Nov 25 23:09:41 so the long TextView would need to know the size of the short TextView when it is laying itself out... Nov 25 23:10:41 hhm Nov 25 23:11:03 it really seems like you'd need to override a layout and implement your own custom onLayout and onMeasure approach. Nov 25 23:12:02 can TableLayout's TableRow span over several rows? Nov 25 23:12:15 don't know. the layout i'm after is demonstrated here: Nov 25 23:12:52 http://www.iliumsoft.com/site/nw/sppix/Qespn.jpg Nov 25 23:13:17 i think i remember reading TableLayout cant have spanning rows Nov 25 23:13:26 pay special attention to how the right-hanging date label behaves when the left-hand label is only 1 line. Nov 25 23:13:30 it can span columns, I know that much Nov 25 23:15:05 does the first one have to be able to occupy two lines then? Nov 25 23:15:35 haavi: not necessarily. the idea here is that each row, regardless of the title label will be 2 lines long. Nov 25 23:15:43 if the title label is too long, it will clip it. Nov 25 23:15:50 if it is too short, it will add a second line just for the date. Nov 25 23:15:54 creating a consistent UI Nov 25 23:16:04 ok Nov 25 23:16:10 yeah that's a tricky layout Nov 25 23:16:24 jasta, i wasn't going to do just an rss reader... it was going to be more of an all-in-one client (email, rss, etc) Nov 25 23:16:25 ; ) Nov 25 23:16:40 FunnyLookinHat: google is doing a mail reader, too :) Nov 25 23:17:38 argh all the good apps are taken. its almost as if they're driving for innovation. but innovation is haaarrddd hehe Nov 25 23:17:43 haavi: an existing layout is unlikely to correctly support this. Nov 25 23:18:36 cybereagle: that's exactly what they're doing. you didn't think making $300K in 8 months would be easy, did you? :) Nov 25 23:19:13 haavi: any thoughts, though? i'm pretty stumped. Nov 25 23:19:29 no I dunno, perhaps an absolute layout? Nov 25 23:19:54 i think extending a RelativeLayout is the way to do it. Nov 25 23:20:06 jasta: no but its still fun to be sarcastic about it ;) Nov 25 23:20:10 and just hooking into onLayout and onMeasure Nov 25 23:22:16 but i can't for the life of me figure out what i'm doing with either of those methods ;) Nov 25 23:25:10 how about a subclassed listAdapter with a getView that returns Views that extends AbsoluteLayout Nov 25 23:25:34 then in that view you could first position the first textbox top left corner and the date in bottom right corner Nov 25 23:26:30 dunno exactly how AbsoluteLayout positions stuff though but if it's similar to CSS that could work Nov 25 23:29:50 absolutelayout can't be appropriate. Nov 25 23:30:12 relativelayout is the one that comes closest to what i want. Nov 25 23:31:15 ok, I think it's going to be hard though Nov 25 23:31:22 yeah, probably. Nov 25 23:31:48 perhpas with layout_toLeft and layout_alignTop Nov 25 23:31:58 no, i tried that. Nov 25 23:32:25 ok Nov 25 23:34:01 the views are just too rigid to permit one to dissect another into an unusual non-square shape. Nov 25 23:34:09 so you'd need a new layout that can do that. Nov 25 23:34:33 yeah you probably do Nov 25 23:36:03 maybe i shouldn't even mess with RelativeLayout and just extend a ViewGroup Nov 25 23:36:06 and do it all manually... Nov 25 23:36:12 that might honestly be easiest. Nov 25 23:36:21 then just implement a special TextView which is capable of graceful clipping. Nov 25 23:37:46 how do you clip the text in a TextView anyway? just with setLines()? Nov 25 23:38:16 haavi: the clipping in this case would occur in response to View#layout. Nov 25 23:38:49 or actually, on measure. the TextView would determine how much it needs to show all text, then the layout would make it go even smaller Nov 25 23:39:07 so it'd determine how much text it can clip off to satisfy that requirement, and then in onDraw, only draw that much with an ellipsis. Nov 25 23:39:19 so this is what i've got to look forward to when i start making my proper ui lol Nov 25 23:39:30 oh my, that's alot of work Nov 25 23:39:44 haavi: not really. Nov 25 23:39:49 i'll get to work and let you know ;) Nov 25 23:40:56 anyone know if double buffering is an issue on android? Nov 25 23:44:52 haavi: the large part of the work involved here is trying to figure out how RelativeLayout works without looking at the source :( Nov 25 23:45:17 me thinks you need to start using a decompiler Nov 25 23:45:49 disassembled code makes my head hurt Nov 25 23:46:17 yeah, that's not an option. RelativeLayout is sure to be very complex on its own. Nov 25 23:46:19 java decompiles pretty well compared to most Nov 25 23:46:34 decompiling opensource software? Nov 25 23:46:36 smart move. Nov 25 23:46:40 its not opensource yet lol Nov 25 23:46:44 jerkface03: This isn't open source yet. Nov 25 23:48:40 does anyone know much about those nine-patch stretchable images? Nov 26 00:04:00 jerkface03: what's to know? Nov 26 00:20:42 * jasta searches around for a Google Engineer Nov 26 00:33:14 hi, I'm looking for a tip for making a button on an android application Nov 26 00:33:46 I have to "define" (ok bad term) in the XML file and then declare in the Main.java the button ? correct ? Nov 26 00:37:06 or better. but in the XML the GUI definition and then add in the Main Class something like Nov 26 00:37:07 Button buttonUp = (Button)findViewById(R.id.up); buttonUp.setOnClickListener(upListener); Nov 26 01:29:12 hmm Nov 26 01:38:42 Interesting, disassembling Java really is easy :) Nov 26 01:39:57 always has been Nov 26 01:40:22 the Java SDK even comes with a tool to do it Nov 26 01:42:09 didn't realize quite so many tools could produce such readable code, though. Nov 26 01:57:26 disassembling or decompiling? Nov 26 02:02:55 lol i told ya Nov 26 02:03:19 bytecode makes it a great decompilation target Nov 26 02:04:38 Nov 26 02:05:19 * Stephmw still doesn't see the obsession with keeping code secret Nov 26 02:05:27 yeah neither Nov 26 02:05:37 obfuscating for size or speed, sure Nov 26 02:05:44 speaking of which, tomorrow i enter phase 3 of the reverse engineering challenge Nov 26 02:05:52 hmmm? Nov 26 02:06:02 Stephmw: i can understand if it contains some secret algoritm or something Nov 26 02:06:20 but at the end of the day if someone wants to know, they can still find out Nov 26 02:06:30 aye Nov 26 02:06:33 i understand the desire, but the best you can do it make it a bit of a pain in the butt Nov 26 02:06:35 stephmw: there were some pretty gnarly obfuscators for win32 back in the day Nov 26 02:06:41 trade secrets only remain that way if you keep em... secret? :D Nov 26 02:06:47 indeed Nov 26 02:07:13 it can still be a trade secret if its not a secret anymore Nov 26 02:07:17 jerkface03: sure, but given enough monkeys, anything's understandable... bytecode or binary Nov 26 02:07:23 you'd likely be suing someone... but oh well Nov 26 02:07:46 well ofcourse, it's just meant to make the process that much more difficult :P Nov 26 02:08:03 right - legal recourse for legal problems... there's really no sense in using technical means for this Nov 26 02:08:57 it only takes 1 person to break it and give it to everyone else, so even making it really hard is prob gonna cost you more to do than you ever gain Nov 26 02:09:17 you give someone some software you gave them your algorithm Nov 26 02:09:46 aha Nov 26 02:09:49 if it were only that simple Nov 26 02:10:24 lol dont get me wrong, i still see the use in not making ot *too* easy Nov 26 02:16:45 the one thing i love about androidis the inclusion of the nio packages Nov 26 02:17:58 yeah i;ve been messing with that all day, not used it before Nov 26 02:18:15 confusing at first but does a great job Nov 26 02:19:53 i just copied/pasted a bunch load of j2se code using nio and it compiles fine Nov 26 02:19:58 haven't tried running it yet tho :P Nov 26 02:21:34 the docs for nio only help if you already know nio it seems, but i found a couple of examples and worked it out, couldnt find any code that fitted enough to just copy it on in lol Nov 26 02:22:08 i've also yet to run it lol, i seem to have created a lot more objects so hopefully it benchmarks ok Nov 26 02:22:48 less threads though! Nov 26 02:25:32 cybereagle, you actually making something or are you just learning? Nov 26 02:26:04 right now i'm making an irc client, with room left to expand for IM Nov 26 02:26:39 though theres a good deal of learning going on too lol Nov 26 02:27:04 writing it all yourself or are you using any of the irc frameworks available? Nov 26 02:27:36 no framework, but i got a buddy of mine helping who knows irc protocol like the back of his hand Nov 26 02:28:16 aye, its always slightly different from ircd to ircd Nov 26 02:28:39 yeah so i am learning Nov 26 02:29:22 glad i got my friend around, cos i'd just have gone on the rfc Nov 26 02:33:18 In the helloworld example, they also have a debugging example, how do I get the current value of the object that I just highlighted in eclipse? they intentionally set it to null, I want see what its current value is? Nov 26 02:34:36 just hover it, the tooltip should tell you its value Nov 26 02:37:02 thats what I did, but it didn't for whatever reason, ok i see, because its null, nothing i guess shows up, where as i just set some int's and they did show up Nov 26 02:37:36 did you try adding the variable name into the expression window? Nov 26 02:38:09 next debug question is, does eclipse have like 'Set next statement' so you can skip over a section of code while debugging? sorry i'm from the world of .Net/Visual Studio, this environment is new to me. Nov 26 02:51:20 f6 steps over, f5 steps into and f8 resumes Nov 26 02:51:58 but youll get annoyed because when it tries to step into compiled code, it looses the debug cursor Nov 26 02:55:37 christ, onMeasure() is a complex process to handle. Nov 26 02:57:25 try "public class whatever extends Timer implements Runnable" Nov 26 02:57:42 thats a tough one to get working ;) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 26 02:59:57 2007