**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 04 02:59:56 2007
Dec 04 05:16:15 <jerkface03> Question: View's contain their own canvas? do you draw on the view and the view gets posted on the screen? in the event the screen get corrupted the view still has a copy of the contents you drew onto it?
Dec 04 05:16:21 <jerkface03> or does it not work like that?
Dec 04 05:42:58 <getoo> i have a little problem
Dec 04 05:43:33 <getoo> i m trying to start a new project in android
Dec 04 05:43:45 <getoo> and it wont let me click finish
Dec 04 05:43:50 <getoo> i got a screenshot
Dec 04 05:43:55 <getoo> http://getoo.blogspot.com/2007/12/android.html
Dec 04 06:05:30 <jasta> back
Dec 04 06:05:45 <getoo> wb
Dec 04 06:06:20 <jasta> getoo: perhaps you should try filling in required fields.
Dec 04 06:06:29 <jasta> or, better yet, reading android documentation.
Dec 04 06:06:40 <getoo> jasta: i did , i think i havent filled them the proper way
Dec 04 06:06:48 <getoo> i tried few options
Dec 04 06:06:56 <jasta> whatever
Dec 04 06:07:01 <getoo> :)
Dec 04 06:31:09 <Luniv> wee, the nightly emulator lockup
Dec 04 06:32:35 <jerkface03> im sure they'll release a new version of the emulator before the challenge in jan
Dec 04 06:32:51 <Luniv> I hope so :)
Dec 04 06:32:58 <jerkface03> so do i :(
Dec 04 06:33:05 <jerkface03> most of the nio stuff is unimplemented
Dec 04 06:37:42 <Luniv> :(
Dec 04 06:39:32 <cutmasta> morning all
Dec 04 07:11:17 <Luniv> hrmm
Dec 04 07:11:31 <Luniv> my web view is flashing white before displaying content for some reason
Dec 04 13:25:59 <davidw> ok, back to hacking Android-Hecl
Dec 04 14:01:14 <getoo> if i start with Workbench User guide is this a good way for me to learn android
Dec 04 14:10:50 <andreaf> hi * , the listactivity view is recommended only for showing data ?
Dec 04 15:19:50 <absentia> could someone help me please --  I am reading:  http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial-ex1.html  and it says I should look at the DBHelper class, but I can't find that class wnywhere.
Dec 04 15:24:44 <cybereagle> its in the excersice source code you download on http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html
Dec 04 15:25:02 <cybereagle> http://code.google.com/android/intro/codelab/NotepadCodeLab.zip
Dec 04 15:25:16 <absentia> thank you!
Dec 04 15:28:09 <absentia> where is a good source of source code and examples .. other than  the google docs?
Dec 04 15:29:03 <Zer0Her0> define good ;)
Dec 04 15:29:34 <Zer0Her0> at this point the documentation or their official blog is the only place i'd readily read code.
Dec 04 15:29:42 <absentia> I also read the news groups
Dec 04 15:29:47 <Zer0Her0> http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=label:android
Dec 04 15:30:04 <Zer0Her0> would be another good place to look at other people's code, whether it's good or not
Dec 04 15:30:11 <absentia> I am looking for absolute beginner examples of hot to create a simple/single activity.. a simple intent receiver... a simple service.. and a simple content provider.
Dec 04 15:30:12 <Zer0Her0> ..well i'll leave that up to you
Dec 04 15:30:29 <absentia> how to use the graphics...  how to use the net
Dec 04 15:30:34 <Zer0Her0> i'd say google's docs at this point are the best place and the discussions
Dec 04 15:30:39 <absentia> I can see the google samples, but that's like 1000s of lines.
Dec 04 15:30:54 <absentia> ok
Dec 04 15:31:07 <absentia> I've set up my own site for my android work... just  a skeleton now
Dec 04 15:31:10 <cybereagle> you really have to just trawl trhough the docs and peice it together bit by bit. its too early for lots of comprehensive examples unfortumately
Dec 04 15:31:14 <absentia> it's assembled by a c++ program I wrote. :-)
Dec 04 15:31:23 <cybereagle> the api demos can provide good pointers for UI stuff
Dec 04 15:31:24 <absentia> cyb: that's what I'm seeing.
Dec 04 15:31:58 <absentia> I'm actually getting paid to learn android, so i'm happy
Dec 04 15:32:12 <cybereagle> people are pretty responsive in here though, including some google engineers
Dec 04 15:32:14 <absentia> and I may work on my own company with it in a few months, if I get good enough with it.
Dec 04 15:32:24 <absentia> this channel has been dead every time  I've been here.
Dec 04 15:32:34 <cybereagle> lol maybe its a timezone thing
Dec 04 15:32:52 <absentia> <-- USA / EST / GMT-5
Dec 04 15:33:28 <cybereagle> well that ought to be the same for most in here. i'm gmt. maybe its your irc idling threshold hehe
Dec 04 15:34:07 * absentia started with IRC in late '88
Dec 04 15:34:14 * absentia can idle like a champ.
Dec 04 15:34:17 <Zer0Her0> hehe
Dec 04 15:34:30 <Zer0Her0> well i think alot of people on here are west coast usa
Dec 04 15:34:36 <absentia> ya
Dec 04 15:34:47 <Zer0Her0> also it's a busy time of year for alot of people.
Dec 04 15:35:02 <cybereagle> yeah it did die when thanksgiving came around
Dec 04 15:35:19 <absentia> Iw as in mountain time for a while, was difficult.  you weren't in yet when est was doing their morning rush.. when you got in,  they were out to lunch.. and west coat was just starting up...  when you get back from lunch they wer about to leave on the east coast.  etc.
Dec 04 15:35:29 <absentia> ya, that's when I got on the chanel
Dec 04 15:35:52 <Zer0Her0> hehe mt time what a rough timezone
Dec 04 15:36:00 <absentia> is there a link from that example1 page to the source code to download?
Dec 04 15:36:23 <cybereagle> i dont think so, its on the tutorial main page though http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html
Dec 04 15:37:09 <absentia> got it
Dec 04 15:37:12 <absentia> preparing for exercises.
Dec 04 15:37:59 <absentia> what OS (and IDE) do people here use?
Dec 04 15:38:46 <cybereagle> eclipse with the plugin seems most popular. quite a few use it under linux, some windows
Dec 04 15:38:58 <cybereagle> though its pretty much the same where eclipse is concerned lol
Dec 04 15:40:08 <cybereagle> i usually use netbeans for java stuff, but cos of the andoid plugin its easier in eclipse, and i'm starting to really like eclipse now
Dec 04 15:43:34 <absentia> hello ?
Dec 04 15:43:44 <absentia> ah. nevermind. lag.
Dec 04 15:44:08 <absentia> I am using just emacs + java 1.603+ ant ... in suse line 10.1
Dec 04 15:44:26 <absentia> I had it working before, but I think I'm missing anv env var JAVA_HOME now something now... getting a strange error.
Dec 04 15:44:40 <absentia> suse101-c [716]> ant
Dec 04 15:44:40 <absentia> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/tools/ant/launch/Launcher
Dec 04 15:46:15 <cybereagle> sounds like smething in android overwrote an ant path
Dec 04 15:46:24 <absentia> ya
Dec 04 15:46:27 <absentia> I'm checking it.
Dec 04 15:46:32 <cybereagle> but it havent even thought about that stuff, eclipse does it for me hehe
Dec 04 15:47:00 <absentia> I'm in the example, doing activity creator.. so I can get a build.xml, and there is src/com ..and so I do activity src.com.blah.blah and its makeing src/src/com ...  strange.
Dec 04 15:47:34 <absentia> I've always just found that ides just get in my way
Dec 04 15:48:45 <cybereagle> i'm like that for some languages, but java classpaths when you have a bunch of libraries just annoys me somehow
Dec 04 15:48:55 <absentia> a
Dec 04 15:48:57 <absentia> h
Dec 04 15:49:25 <cybereagle> so i give in to the idealised abstraction of java lol
Dec 04 15:51:35 <absentia> ya.  I've been trying to learn c++ lately.. so it's feeling a little more like a straight jacket, doing java again.
Dec 04 15:57:30 <haavi> Java feels more like a straight jacket than C++?
Dec 04 15:58:00 <cybereagle> sure i can see that
Dec 04 15:58:27 <cybereagle> it depends on your perspective, but if your used to playing with the bits and bytes, java can seem almost arrogant telling you what you can and cant do with your data lol
Dec 04 15:58:53 <cybereagle> but if your used to working at a higher level, c/c++ can seem like a lot of work for simple things
Dec 04 16:00:21 <haavi> hmm
Dec 04 16:00:31 <haavi> ok, but I still can't understand it
Dec 04 16:00:38 <haavi> Java is a whole lot simpler than C++ imo
Dec 04 16:03:13 <cybereagle> yeah but its more restrictive
Dec 04 16:03:19 <cybereagle> type safety and all that
Dec 04 16:03:35 <cybereagle> i have to shift mental gears between c and java in that respect
Dec 04 16:03:36 <Stephmw> it's just as easy to screw up... in different ways
Dec 04 16:03:54 <haavi> Java's got type safety too?
Dec 04 16:04:01 <haavi> perhaps not as many types though
Dec 04 17:33:59 <jasta> Luniv: lol, some other guy released an RSS reader yesterday and the poor guy copied quite a bit of my terrible code.  i feel bad for him :)
Dec 04 17:35:38 <davidw> heh
Dec 04 17:36:51 <jasta> anyway, gotta run to work.
Dec 04 18:14:39 <jasta> at work :(
Dec 04 18:23:10 <djMax> so on the iPhone, it's pretty easy for me to "host" Safari as a view in my app.  Is there an equivalent in Android?
Dec 04 18:45:48 <Lede> how do you turn of that google monitoring your eclipse stuff?
Dec 04 18:46:07 <Lede> i accepted it at first but want to turn it off
Dec 04 19:06:43 <absentia> yay
Dec 04 19:06:50 <absentia> better day today (so far) than yesterday.
Dec 04 19:06:56 <jasta> how so?
Dec 04 19:07:11 <absentia> oh, wrong channel. :->   just not as much sh!t (not) happening today.
Dec 04 19:08:23 <jasta> djMax: Yes, there is.  Read the documentation for WebView.
Dec 04 19:08:53 <djMax> cool, thx.  I see it in the docs now but didn't see any samples (on first glance) so got worried.
Dec 04 19:08:59 <jasta> djMax: There are also examples with this functionality.  Read them.
Dec 04 19:09:20 <djMax> I didn't see any on the emu, but I'll dig around.
Dec 04 19:09:37 <djMax> It will be clearer when I read the book.  Is that out yet? :)
Dec 04 19:10:16 <djMax> (Somebody is almost done with an iPhone dev book apparently, and that's not even "sanctioned" dev yet)
Dec 04 19:11:08 <jasta> djMax: It is clear if you grok the ApiDemos source.
Dec 04 19:26:33 <Lede> if anyone knows how to undo that google spyware thing in eclipse tell me :)
Dec 04 19:35:55 <haavi> you're being totally paranoid Lede, Google don't write no spyware
Dec 04 19:52:00 <Lede> haavi: if you installed the eclipse plugin it asked if you allowed google to collect statistic information or something
Dec 04 19:52:39 <haavi> oh yeah I remember that now
Dec 04 19:52:56 <Zer0Her0> it's not spyware as it's not looking at YOU
Dec 04 19:53:02 <Zer0Her0> it's looking at statistical info ;)
Dec 04 19:53:04 <haavi> exactly
Dec 04 19:53:06 <Zer0Her0> ...or something like that
Dec 04 19:53:15 <haavi> and it's probably totally anonymous
Dec 04 19:53:22 <Zer0Her0> also they asked you, so it's not exactly being a good spy either
Dec 04 19:54:01 <haavi> my guess though Lede is that you'd have to reinstall the plugin to change that setting
Dec 04 19:54:44 <Lede> yeah.
Dec 04 19:54:51 <Zer0Her0> i know you can change it
Dec 04 19:54:56 <Zer0Her0> i just can't find the panel it's on now
Dec 04 20:07:29 <absentia> suse101-c [797]> ant
Dec 04 20:07:29 <absentia> Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/apache/tools/ant/launch/Launcher
Dec 04 20:07:50 <absentia> anyone know if I need to set ANT_HOME or CLASSPATH or something...   I had this working before, but since I logged in again, it's not working.. not sure why
Dec 04 20:18:29 <absentia> ok, fixed that one. got another error.. fixed that. working now, again. yay.
Dec 04 20:53:50 <jasta> hi again morrildl.
Dec 04 20:55:50 <morrildl> jasta: howdy
Dec 04 20:59:49 <Lede> morrildl: are you guys holding back a more mature SDK :P
Dec 04 21:06:25 <iamtim> doh
Dec 04 21:09:19 <djMax> has anybody played with the QRCode and UPC readers?
Dec 04 21:09:48 <djMax> the UPC one seems remarkably bad (probably the fault of hardware not software)
Dec 04 21:57:14 * Lede is suddenly getting database errors
Dec 04 21:57:28 <Lede> nice way to end the day and go to sleep :P
Dec 04 22:48:57 <straz> hi, hope someone can help me trouble shoot . I'm a complete newbie, but trying the steps on (http://code.google.com/android/kb/troubleshooting.html) to see why my app isn't showing up.
Dec 04 22:49:17 <straz> I've successfully built hello world and lunar lander in Eclipse, but now my own app isn't showing up.
Dec 04 22:49:32 <straz> there's no mention of it in 'adb logcat'
Dec 04 22:50:08 <straz> I checked AndroidManifest.xml and it seems ok to me.
Dec 04 22:50:57 <straz> I don't know how to validate this step in Eclipse: "Did you send your .apk file to the device (adb install)?" - Should I expect the Eclipse Run dialog to handle this?
Dec 04 22:55:22 <absentia> I don't use eclipse.. so I am not sure what to suggest
Dec 04 22:55:32 <absentia> all the docs for eclipse seem to indicate that all this just happens magically...
Dec 04 22:56:10 <absentia> theonly thing I've seen is that sometimes there may be an issue wit the emulator being stuck -- and perhaps to adb kill-server, stop the emulator, start the wmulator and adb start-server .. but not sure if that affects eclipse.
Dec 04 22:56:26 <straz> I'm new to eclipse too, but it seems like it has lots of nice automation.
Dec 04 22:57:42 <straz> thanks, absentia
Dec 04 22:58:05 <cybereagle> yeah killing any strat adb processes can help, and i've also seen deleting the img file for the emulator help
Dec 04 22:58:15 <cybereagle> it maintains state between runs unless you delete that
Dec 04 22:58:30 <absentia> adb shell
Dec 04 22:58:34 <absentia> cd /data/apps
Dec 04 22:58:34 <absentia> ls
Dec 04 22:58:47 <jasta> emulator -wipe-data can be useful, too.
Dec 04 22:59:16 <jasta> i exploded my home screen app once, and had to do that.
Dec 04 22:59:36 <cybereagle> yeah that should have the same effect
Dec 04 23:00:01 <straz> ls /data/app shows myapp.apk is there.
Dec 04 23:00:08 <straz> yay for that
Dec 04 23:00:28 <cybereagle> silly question, but your app does have an Activity right?
Dec 04 23:00:56 <straz> I'll check to be sure - after all, I am a complete newbie
Dec 04 23:01:12 <cybereagle> cos if theres no Activity subclasses, theres no UI and nothing to see hehe
Dec 04 23:01:30 <straz> the AndroidManifest.xml has an <activity>
Dec 04 23:01:56 <straz> yeah, I have a public class myapp extends Activity
Dec 04 23:02:45 <straz> it has an OnCreate(Bundle icicle) which calls setContentView(R.layout.main)
Dec 04 23:03:44 <straz> what's the pattern for putting lots of debug printfs to the console?
Dec 04 23:04:03 <straz> or does Eclipse have something smarter I should use?
Dec 04 23:04:11 <davidw> Log.v
Dec 04 23:04:49 <straz> thanks
Dec 04 23:05:16 <cybereagle> you can open the debug and/or android DDMS perspective for general debugging too
Dec 04 23:07:11 <davidw> anyone know offhand how to pipe System.err to Log.v?
Dec 04 23:08:08 <Stephmw> create your own PrintStream that calls Log.v and use System.setErr()?
Dec 04 23:08:12 <Stephmw> (this is from j2se)
Dec 04 23:15:29 <Stephmw> davidw: any joy?
Dec 04 23:20:12 <straz> hi cybereagle, I'm trying the debug and DDMS perspective, thanks. I can see myapp.apk in ls /data/app, but it doesn't appear anywhere in logcat. Where should I expect it to show signs of having been loaded and/or launched?
Dec 04 23:22:01 <cybereagle> well if you have ddms open when you launch it you should see in the log window everything that gets loaded
Dec 04 23:22:23 <cybereagle> if i were you i'd try deleting ~/.android/userdata.img (unless your under windows?)
Dec 04 23:22:31 <straz> I added category LAUNCHER in AndroidManifest.xml - is that the right way to get a launcher icon somewhere on the Applications folder in the Android user gui?
Dec 04 23:22:56 <straz> I'm running Eclipse under windows
Dec 04 23:22:59 <cybereagle> yeah, inside your activity tag
Dec 04 23:23:10 <cybereagle> <category android:value="android.intent.category.LAUNCHER" />
Dec 04 23:23:31 <straz> yes, I have that verbatim inside my activity tag
Dec 04 23:24:00 <cybereagle> in windows C:\Documents and Settings\<yout_username>\Local Settings\Application Data\Android\  contians the img and an emulator config
Dec 04 23:24:09 <cybereagle> if you delete them they will be recreated from scratch
Dec 04 23:24:20 <straz> ok, will try that
Dec 04 23:24:36 <cybereagle> once in a while something gets stuck and that kind of hard reset seems ot help
Dec 04 23:25:16 <cybereagle> if that doesnt help i guess it must be something in your app, though from what you said so far it all sounds in order
Dec 04 23:28:33 <straz> nope, sorry. I quit the emulator, trashed those two files, restarted, and have similar missing activity
Dec 04 23:28:48 <straz> I will have to log out and run along for now, thanks for all of your help
Dec 04 23:29:04 <cybereagle> ok, hope you fix it later :)
Dec 04 23:47:43 <Luniv> hrmm, forgot I had irc running at work
Dec 04 23:48:01 <Luniv> jasta: lol really? you should be flattered ;)
Dec 04 23:56:57 <jasta> i'm thinking about taking care of some big refactorization instead of doing the icon just yet.
Dec 04 23:57:04 <jasta> actually no, that doesnt make any sense
Dec 04 23:57:10 <jasta> it would be better to implement that first hehe
Dec 04 23:57:38 <jasta> i did end up just getting drunk last night hehe, so i gotta play catch up :)
Dec 04 23:58:12 <jasta> screw work, im out.
Dec 04 23:58:38 <jasta> or, better yet, i'll just start working on android stuff :)
Dec 05 00:01:09 <Luniv> heh
Dec 05 00:05:33 <jasta> believe it or not, there are more distractions at work than my house though :)
Dec 05 00:09:38 <Luniv> I believe it
Dec 05 00:09:46 <Luniv> it's the same for me, heh
Dec 05 00:46:33 <jasta> hmm, that's lame.
Dec 05 00:46:46 <jasta> i assumed that subclipse would be capable of issuing svn move commands if you move/refactor, but apparently it issues delete/add.
Dec 05 00:46:49 <jasta> that is very bad.
Dec 05 00:48:11 <jasta> oh well, this is just a dummy project anyway.
Dec 05 00:51:31 <Luniv> it doesn't?
Dec 05 00:51:39 <Luniv> blah
Dec 05 00:51:48 <jasta> it didn't seem to?  perhaps there was something special i had to do?
Dec 05 00:51:56 <Luniv> lol no idea
Dec 05 00:52:04 <Luniv> I use tortoisesvn most of the time
Dec 05 00:52:25 <jasta> i would have issued the commands manually and had eclipse sort out the code refactoring if i had known...
Dec 05 00:52:40 <jasta> i just kind of assumed it would support this.
Dec 05 00:54:07 <Luniv> ine would think
Dec 05 00:54:09 <Luniv> *one
Dec 05 00:54:45 <jasta> i think it would be neat if android had a cool history visualization/management interface.
Dec 05 00:54:58 <jasta> so instead of just going back, you could visualize the whole thing and jump to specific apps
Dec 05 00:55:55 <Luniv> kinda like expose?
Dec 05 00:56:21 <Luniv> is it possible to get the history records though?
Dec 05 00:58:26 <Luniv> well, time for the trek home
Dec 05 01:00:03 <cybereagle> few people have spoken about having some thing like that
Dec 05 01:10:49 <jasta> Luniv: well, no, but i mean, the platform should implement this :)
Dec 05 01:10:52 <jasta> not a specific app
Dec 05 01:11:08 <jasta> im pretty sure they will do something like that though.  did you see the webkit demo they gave?
Dec 05 01:11:14 <jasta> it had some cool 3d history thing
Dec 05 02:09:16 <jasta> Luniv: i'm lifting your DAO code ;)
Dec 05 02:09:30 <jasta> i decided to tidy up afterall.
Dec 05 02:23:13 <Luniv> oh?
Dec 05 02:23:35 <Luniv> no images tonight? :p
Dec 05 02:29:48 <jasta> maybe not, unless i code later than i expected :)
Dec 05 02:29:56 <jasta> than i expect*
Dec 05 02:30:59 <jasta> i'm sick of working with all this clumsy, disorganized code.
Dec 05 02:33:07 <Luniv> :D
Dec 05 02:33:32 <Luniv> it's nice to be able to actually do something about it though, isn't it
Dec 05 02:33:38 <Luniv> instead of being shackled with it
Dec 05 02:39:08 <jasta> definitely.  untidy code is frustrating :)
Dec 05 02:40:26 <jasta> can't wait to look at all of google's untidy code :)
Dec 05 02:40:30 <Luniv> lol
Dec 05 02:40:36 <romainguy_> ^^
Dec 05 02:41:01 <Luniv> hrmm
Dec 05 02:41:23 <Luniv> I seem to be able to kill my process by refreshing all the feeds
Dec 05 02:42:08 <Luniv> I'm manage to fill up the GREF (Global Reference Table?)
Dec 05 02:42:23 <jasta> i've been able to get my process to emit SIGBUS somehow the past week or so.
Dec 05 02:42:30 <jasta> that excites me.
Dec 05 02:42:34 <Luniv> lol
Dec 05 02:42:40 <Luniv> that's more impressive then me lol
Dec 05 02:43:08 <jasta> considering that the privilege context i'm working in shoudl not permit that, yes :)
Dec 05 02:43:33 <jasta> anyway, i'm closing up here at work.  gonna grab a bite to eat then resume when i get home.
Dec 05 02:43:37 <jasta> see ya.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 05 02:59:56 2007