**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 11 02:59:57 2007
Dec 11 03:22:07 <jasta> off-roaded in my brother's truck to find a good spot for snow camping this winter :)
Dec 11 03:22:15 <jasta> pretty stressful on a high ledge ;)
Dec 11 03:43:07 <jasta> romainguy_: I posted about an omission in the build.xml file that activityCreator.py generates.  Do you know if this has been registered anywhere to be fixed?
Dec 11 03:43:22 <jasta> Or morrildl? :)
Dec 11 03:44:19 <jasta> See: http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/060dc983d594495c#
Dec 11 03:44:34 <jasta> I worked around it myself, but this should be addressed moving forward.
Dec 11 04:52:28 <benley> hm.  I bet this is not the android I'm looing for.
Dec 11 04:52:31 <benley> looking, even.
Dec 11 04:52:46 <romainguy___> benley: which one are you looking for?
Dec 11 04:53:18 <benley> oh, this one it turns out.
Dec 11 04:53:22 * benley uses teh google
Dec 11 04:55:19 <Kraln> omg
Dec 11 04:55:24 * Kraln hugs benley
Dec 11 04:55:38 <Kraln> you would not believe this guy; came in here, did not know how to google for things
Dec 11 04:56:14 <benley> if by "would not believe" then you mean "would believe, and sees people like that constantly", then yes.
Dec 11 04:56:31 <Kraln> exactly.
Dec 11 04:57:05 <benley> heh at first I was like "omg /whois kraln I bet I should know who this is ..."
Dec 11 04:57:28 <Kraln> who did you bet on thinking I was?
Dec 11 04:57:33 <benley> no idea.
Dec 11 04:59:38 <benley> so anyway uh ... I'm at the stage of poking at the android sdk where I got a HelloWorld app to work in the emulator, and then I touched something (to upgrade it to an XML layout), and now the activity refuses to work again.  I don't even know how to put it back the way it was :-P
Dec 11 05:00:35 <Kraln> ah, what's going on?
Dec 11 05:00:44 <Kraln> bear in mind the xml stuff is all case sensitive, well the names are
Dec 11 05:02:59 <benley> just a moment while I make sure I didn't break something by trying to be cute
Dec 11 05:05:10 <benley> yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm using exactly the code that's given to cut-and-paste in the "Hello, Android!" example in the sdk docs.
Dec 11 05:05:33 <benley> As I said the activity started up when I was using an inline layout, but as soon as I added the main.xml it broke.
Dec 11 05:05:54 <Kraln> how did it break? can you be more specific?
Dec 11 05:06:13 <benley> I'm poking to find the right way to describe it :)
Dec 11 05:06:27 <Kraln> is it throwing an error? misbehaving? not compilign?
Dec 11 05:07:04 <benley> no error, it compiles fine ... OOH! If I have eclipse run the emulator, then go back to eclipse and hit run again after the emulator is already running, then my activity pops up.
Dec 11 05:07:22 <benley> very odd.
Dec 11 05:07:59 <Kraln> OH
Dec 11 05:08:02 <Kraln> mine does that too.
Dec 11 05:08:16 <Kraln> the first run starts the emulator, and the second one runs the activity and attaches the debugger
Dec 11 05:08:21 <benley> it shows up in the package browser every time though
Dec 11 05:08:22 <Kraln> it just started doing that, no reason I could find.
Dec 11 05:08:27 <benley> really? weird.
Dec 11 05:08:38 <benley> Before I tried using an XML layout it started up on the first try.
Dec 11 05:08:57 <Kraln> I hate eclipse with a passion; I suspect it is eclipse's fault
Dec 11 05:09:04 <benley> I've never tried using eclipse before this.
Dec 11 05:09:33 <benley> ok, perhaps I'm not stuck.
Dec 11 05:09:44 <benley> maybe I could get some verbosity out of adb.
Dec 11 05:12:06 <benley> but now, my train is depositing me at home, so I'll resume tinkering tomorrow.
Dec 11 05:13:01 <benley> thanks for watching me solve my own problem. As usual, asking the question in public led to the answer by itself :)
Dec 11 05:13:31 <Kraln> as usual =)
Dec 11 09:30:37 <davidw> hey dudes
Dec 11 09:31:30 <cutmasta> hola
Dec 11 11:16:44 <nigam> hi e'one. Good day.
Dec 11 11:17:00 <nigam> just curious if this is the channel for Google's Android ?
Dec 11 11:21:27 <kristian-m> nigam it is
Dec 11 11:23:57 <nigam> thx kristian ... I am wondering if anyone here has ported Android to the Sharp Zaurus SL-C750 ? I am in the process of trying to do that and following some instructions from euedge ... but need help on that process ... anyone here ?
Dec 11 11:26:00 <kristian-m> nigam you have seen: http://euedge.com/blog/2007/12/06/google-android-runs-on-sharp-zaurus-sl-c760/
Dec 11 11:26:18 <kristian-m> nigam there is not much conversation going on here
Dec 11 11:30:32 <nigam> Yes, I have seen that page and had some questions on the steps mentioned therein ...
Dec 11 11:31:40 <nigam> for eg. once we get an Angstrom console image, we need to patch it with android.diff. Where is this patching to be done ? On the Zaurus, or on a separate linux box ? If a separate linux box, does it have to be running the 2.6.93 kernel ? How do I patch and then cross-compile a kernel on a linux laptop for an ARM machine ?
Dec 11 11:33:00 <kristian-m> nigam it has to be applied to the kernel, you'll cross compile for the device - i guess
Dec 11 11:34:55 <nigam> right, so for that I need to get the kernel source for Angstrom, correct ?  ... but my confusion is still ... on which device do I do the compilation ?
Dec 11 11:35:00 <kristian-m> nigam what is the difference between a c760 and a c750?
Dec 11 11:35:26 <kristian-m> nigam jo'll need a development box - an a cross compiler suite
Dec 11 11:36:58 <nigam> right ... I don't think there is a difference between the 750 and 760 --- diff is in onboard ram and flash size
Dec 11 11:37:54 <nigam> yes, I can use a Linux laptop as the development machine. What gergely didn't mention when he said patch android.diff ... is whether it should be patched to angstrom's kernel source and if so, where does one get that?
Dec 11 11:38:34 <nigam>  used the android.diff from Benno to patch the linux-rp-2.6.23 kernel of the Angstrom distribution
Dec 11 11:39:05 <nigam> this was a comment from the steps ... so to patch the linux-rp-2.6.23 kernel of the Angstrom distribution, I need its source, correct ?
Dec 11 11:41:30 <kristian-m> nigam right, you could look at the openmoko distribution, it's based on Angstrom and has some documentation on wiki.openmoko.org
Dec 11 11:43:02 <nigam> great, thanks a bunch.
Dec 11 15:10:36 <jasta> yawwwn, early morning :)
Dec 11 15:43:48 <morrildl> jasta: yeah I think we got that one
Dec 11 15:46:24 <cybereagle> so morrildl, is this shows road gonna reach as far as the uk?
Dec 11 15:48:03 <Zer0Her0> or NY? ;)
Dec 11 15:48:14 <dims> or Boston :)
Dec 11 15:48:24 <cutmasta> or Germany :)
Dec 11 15:48:27 <cybereagle> haha
Dec 11 15:48:30 <Zer0Her0> actually NYC or Boston is fine for me.
Dec 11 15:48:36 <Zer0Her0> poor morrildl
Dec 11 15:48:40 <morrildl> cybereagle, Zer0Her0, dims, cutmasta : yes
Dec 11 15:48:52 <cybereagle> or i'll be closer to home in DC for shmoocon in february
Dec 11 15:49:00 <Zer0Her0> sweet
Dec 11 15:49:02 <cutmasta> morrildl, nice :)
Dec 11 15:49:14 <morrildl> The North American tour will be first, and Boston and New York are both tentatively on the list
Dec 11 15:49:27 <morrildl> The key word, of course, is "tentatively" :)
Dec 11 15:49:37 <morrildl> There will be a European series eventually, but we aren't sure when yet
Dec 11 15:49:48 <morrildl> probably late February or March, is my guess
Dec 11 15:50:07 <cybereagle> well thats ironic. i'll be in canada in february and march lol
Dec 11 15:50:10 <morrildl> The UK and Germany will probably both be on that one
Dec 11 15:50:17 <morrildl> cybereagle: doh!
Dec 11 15:50:26 <morrildl> Dates are definitely not finalized yet
Dec 11 15:50:31 <morrildl> neither is the city list
Dec 11 15:50:35 <cybereagle> yeah, i might still catch it :)
Dec 11 15:50:59 <morrildl> We are going to do the North American tour first, because it's closer to home and easier to work out the bugs :)
Dec 11 15:51:08 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 11 15:51:11 <cybereagle> yeah, makes sense
Dec 11 15:56:48 <parag00n> whats happening on the tour?
Dec 11 16:02:07 <benley> what's this tour of which you speak?
Dec 11 16:10:23 * davidw might be able to make it to Munich, which is apparently a pretty big tech city for Germany
Dec 11 16:10:44 * benley is in boston
Dec 11 16:10:46 <davidw> just in case my whereabouts are of concern to Google Inc ;-)
Dec 11 16:15:04 <Essington> davidw: don't worry, google knows where you sleep
Dec 11 16:25:24 <morrildl> Well, Google knows where *I* sleep at least
Dec 11 16:27:13 <davidw> I hope they let you out of the compound every now and then;-)
Dec 11 16:37:54 <guardian> re
Dec 11 18:44:45 <Zer0Her0> I'm sure most people have seent his but: http://google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fk-tai.impress.co.jp%2Fcda%2Farticle%2Fnews_toppage%2F37548.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
Dec 11 19:11:13 <Lede> Zer0Her0: neat, but not really usefull
Dec 11 19:11:54 <Zer0Her0> i'd say that's what category most news items fall into ;)
Dec 11 19:12:27 <Lede> true
Dec 11 19:22:49 <billybongo> is this the channel for Google Android or some other kind?
Dec 11 19:24:27 <romainguy> billybongo: yes
Dec 11 19:25:26 <billybongo> can it be installed on a phone yet?
Dec 11 19:25:36 <billybongo> one that I can get hold of?
Dec 11 19:28:51 <jasta> morrildl: The one about build.xml?  Good, that was annoying ;)
Dec 11 19:33:18 <Lede> morrildl: what will you do in this "tour"?
Dec 11 19:33:32 <morrildl> jasta: that's on a Mac, right?
Dec 11 19:33:48 <morrildl> Lede: talk about Android :)
Dec 11 19:33:49 <jasta> Linux, actually, but Mac should be similarly affected.
Dec 11 19:33:58 <morrildl> jasta: hmm
Dec 11 19:33:59 <morrildl> okay
Dec 11 19:34:37 <davidw> billybongo, not really
Dec 11 19:35:30 <jasta> morrildl: The issue is that Eclipse maintains R.java and the aidl output with mode 0444.
Dec 11 19:36:14 <morrildl> jasta: yeah we think we have that fixed
Dec 11 19:36:15 <jasta> aapt, however, isn't aware of this trickery, and neither is build.xml so the ant build path fails when the Eclipse plugin generated R.java or aidl sources.
Dec 11 19:36:42 <jasta> Ok, cool.  I'm curious though, how did you attack this?
Dec 11 19:36:55 <jasta> I actually thought the best approach would be to get the Eclipse plugin to stop maintaining obscure modes :)
Dec 11 19:37:08 <morrildl> jasta: it's read-only b/c it's generated
Dec 11 19:37:11 <jasta> the Linux "read-only" concept doesn't really exist, and is frustrating :)
Dec 11 19:37:32 <morrildl> The Eclipse plugin will have a Java-lookalike editor for R.java that won't let you edit it
Dec 11 19:37:35 <jasta> morrildl: I understand that, but it's sorcery that is unusual and outside of convention on Linux.
Dec 11 19:37:57 <morrildl> jasta: actually Eclipse does it automatically
Dec 11 19:38:12 <jasta> Well, that is silly.  :)
Dec 11 19:38:22 <morrildl> jasta: it's particularly troublesome on Mac, b/c the filesystem is weird enough that you can only remove the file from a shell
Dec 11 19:38:24 <morrildl> (rm -f)
Dec 11 19:38:27 <jasta> But still, there are 2 other places it could be solved.  Either in aapt and aidl, or in build.xml.
Dec 11 19:38:36 <morrildl> so Eclipse will create and can overwrite a file, but cannot delete it
Dec 11 19:38:39 <morrildl> it's a pain
Dec 11 19:39:06 <morrildl> jasta: yeah the whole toolchain should be updated.  Files just sholdn't be created read-only anymore
Dec 11 19:39:10 <morrildl> so it shouldn't matter
Dec 11 19:39:16 <jasta> I agree, it's sorcery :)
Dec 11 19:39:27 <morrildl> if you use Eclipse, you are protected via another means, if you use ant, well, you're likely to know what you're doing anyway :)
Dec 11 19:39:39 <Essington> morrildl: you can't command-I the file in the finder and change it from read only?
Dec 11 19:39:49 <jasta> I wanted my project to contain ant build sources for distribution purposes, but I personally do use Eclipse for dev.  That is how I ran into this issue.
Dec 11 19:39:57 <morrildl> Essington: you can if you, like, know anything about the Mac
Dec 11 19:40:00 <morrildl> which apparently I do not :)
Dec 11 19:40:09 <jasta> I also don't want to enforce my IDE preference on users via the build environment.  That is also sorcery :)
Dec 11 19:40:24 <morrildl> jasta: I salute you, on both counts
Dec 11 19:45:15 <billybongo> so if it can't be installed on a phone yet, what is that guy using in the video?
Dec 11 19:46:03 <jasta> billybongo: it's a phone, running android.  Google has prototypes.
Dec 11 19:46:28 <jasta> Also, Android can and does run on hardware.  See the android-internals group.
Dec 11 19:46:39 <ozarka> billybongo:  It's not that there aren't phones running android, it's just that you don't have one.  :-)
Dec 11 19:46:39 <jasta> Run directly, with no emulation layer that is.
Dec 11 19:47:17 <jasta> And when the OHA releases source code (**cough**) you will likely see most of the "open" handsets running Android.
Dec 11 19:47:20 <jasta> Like the Neo1973
Dec 11 19:47:34 <billybongo> ozarka: ok, these are all prototype hardware?
Dec 11 19:47:37 <davidw> source code +1
Dec 11 19:48:11 <davidw> billybongo, yes.
Dec 11 19:48:29 <jasta> billybongo: Well, someone has it running with limited functionality on the Sharp Zaurus.
Dec 11 19:48:51 <jasta> But as far as a real, usable, consumer-friendly phone, you will not see that until a carrier and manufacturer officially launch one at the end of 2008.
Dec 11 19:49:04 <ozarka> Because there's no source all you can run in the qemu image, right?
Dec 11 19:49:04 <Lede> morrildl: where can i read more about this tour, i can't find anything on the blog/site
Dec 11 19:49:07 <billybongo> jasta: that's interesting because I have a zaurus somewhere
Dec 11 19:49:28 <billybongo> so until then I can run it in qemu for kicks?
Dec 11 19:49:35 <jasta> ozarka: Not quite, you could move it to real hardware, if you had the exact hardware that the stack was compiled for (and thee mulator emulates).
Dec 11 19:49:43 <jasta> Such hardware does exist, but it is somewhat rare.
Dec 11 19:49:48 <ozarka> So even if you go it running and it was fantastic, it might be very different by the time you can pick it up at your local gPhone kiosk at the mall.
Dec 11 19:50:01 <jasta> billybongo: The emulator is not for kicks.  It is for development.  If you are not a developer, Android should not interest you yet.
Dec 11 19:50:22 <morrildl> Lede: yeah it's not official yet.  We're still working out the specific itinerary
Dec 11 19:50:35 <Lede> right, ok
Dec 11 19:52:18 <davidw> morrildl, anything in particular that'll make it worth going to see, as opposed to utilizing the internet?  you going to bring along the prototypes and let us run stuff on them?
Dec 11 19:52:55 <davidw> I mean, apart from the chance to meet you guys... it's always fun to meet people...
Dec 11 19:54:19 <benley> isn't there some htc device that's extremely similar to what the emulator emulates?
Dec 11 20:02:12 <morrildl> davidw: well, the primary goal is to connect developers with each other
Dec 11 20:02:22 <morrildl> but we do intend to have some legit reasons to attend :)
Dec 11 20:02:25 <morrildl> can't talk about it yet though
Dec 11 20:04:07 <davidw> I guess that would be cool too... here's hoping you make it to Munich (or Padova, Vicenza or Verona... even better!)
Dec 11 20:06:21 <davidw> morrildl, here's a weird one: programmatically create a new view with a spinner, and if you don't request focus, you can't make it do anything
Dec 11 20:43:07 <morrildl> davidw: can you show me what you mean in code?
Dec 11 21:07:08 <davidw> morrildl, yeah...
Dec 11 21:12:27 <Yeggstry> hi morrildl, I'm from the reading area, uk :)
Dec 11 21:15:16 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: yay, another UK-er
Dec 11 21:15:22 <Yeggstry> :)
Dec 11 21:15:30 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: going to attend the Android Jam on Friday?
Dec 11 21:15:47 <Yeggstry> didn't know there was one
Dec 11 21:15:55 <Yeggstry> details?
Dec 11 21:16:15 <Stephmw> http://services.google.com/events/london_android_dev
Dec 11 21:16:24 <Stephmw> I won't be able to - don't have a laptop atm
Dec 11 21:16:34 <Yeggstry> let me guess, during the day
Dec 11 21:16:41 <Yeggstry> registration closed :/
Dec 11 21:16:47 <Stephmw> woops
Dec 11 21:16:56 <Stephmw> yeah, most things for android have been over the day :(
Dec 11 21:16:57 <Kraln> hi morrildl, I'm from the Wash DC area :-x
Dec 11 21:17:01 <bengl> any canadian events?
Dec 11 21:17:12 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: there's the Open Source Dev Jam, first thursday of the month
Dec 11 21:17:23 <Yeggstry> during the day again?
Dec 11 21:17:31 <Stephmw> no, evening, but the topic varies
Dec 11 21:17:53 <jasta> how do you find out about these?
Dec 11 21:18:01 <Stephmw> networking, mostly
Dec 11 21:18:04 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: http://osjam.truemesh.com/
Dec 11 21:18:20 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: join the google group to get updates on the next one
Dec 11 21:18:43 <Stephmw> Yeggstry: not really straightforward from reading though
Dec 11 21:18:51 <Yeggstry> nope
Dec 11 21:18:57 <Yeggstry> about an hour or more away
Dec 11 21:19:25 <Yeggstry> where are you from? :)
Dec 11 21:22:56 <Stephmw> I live in Vauxhall :)
Dec 11 21:23:01 * Stephmw throws a stone towards MI6
Dec 11 21:23:57 <Yeggstry> hehe
Dec 11 21:24:19 <Yeggstry> I would like to meet some other Android developers :P
Dec 11 21:25:16 <davidw> morrildl, is pastebin ok?
Dec 11 21:25:30 <Yeggstry> I've been playing around with the opengl stuff, it quite cool :)
Dec 11 21:33:13 <davidw> morrildl, http://pastebin.ca/812557
Dec 11 21:34:10 <davidw> morrildl, with a very simple layout: <LinearLayout xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android" android:orientation="vertical" android:layout_width="fill_parent" android:layout_height="fill_parent" id="@+id/ll"
Dec 11 22:32:00 <davidw> morrildl, sent to the mailing list.
Dec 11 22:32:40 <magohaas> aaa++
Dec 11 22:34:08 <Yeggstry> mailing list?
Dec 11 22:34:15 <Yeggstry> oh nm
Dec 11 22:34:44 <magohaas> hi
Dec 11 22:34:51 <davidw> hi
Dec 11 22:35:00 <benley> hi
Dec 11 22:35:25 <magohaas> hi david
Dec 11 22:35:29 <magohaas> de donde sos
Dec 11 22:35:35 <magohaas> wher u from
Dec 11 22:37:34 <duey> hi
Dec 11 22:37:44 <magohaas> hi duey
Dec 11 22:39:11 <magohaas> chau manga de locos
Dec 12 00:51:37 <Argiris> any free pdf for reading in the road?
Dec 12 00:55:57 <Argiris> forget it,I found my answers
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 12 02:59:57 2007