**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 18 02:59:56 2007
Dec 18 04:12:24 <jasta> romainguy: btw, what is the deal with Google rejecting an HTTP User-Agent of m/^Java/ for all of its RSS/Atom feeds?
Dec 18 04:12:55 <jasta> Android, of course, uses User-Agent: Java0 for URL#openStream(), which fails then to access Google's own services.  You have to switch usage to HttpClient.
Dec 18 04:13:41 <jasta> At the very least you guys could change the default User-Agent.  But better still would be to stop having Google's webservers act so backward.
Dec 18 04:42:34 <jasta> I changed it in my app, but I really think that is silly.
Dec 18 11:49:38 <landslide> can you ssh into the android emulator?
Dec 18 11:50:30 <cutmasta> landslide, you can telnet
Dec 18 11:50:40 <cutmasta> and perform some commands
Dec 18 11:50:46 <landslide> coool
Dec 18 11:51:03 <cutmasta> ilke tcp redirects
Dec 18 11:51:06 <cutmasta> like tcp redirects
Dec 18 11:51:36 <landslide> based on the class heirarchy and the few videos google put out, this platform is awesome!
Dec 18 11:51:46 <landslide> lots of revolutionary ideas.
Dec 18 11:51:55 <cutmasta> yap
Dec 18 11:51:58 <landslide> i particular like the application lifecycle methodology
Dec 18 11:52:05 <cutmasta> and a company beyond which can push this
Dec 18 11:52:15 <landslide> i wonder what the guys at windows mobile and in particular the compact framework think of this
Dec 18 11:52:23 <landslide> it must be a knock-out punch.
Dec 18 11:52:29 <cutmasta> hehe
Dec 18 11:52:31 <landslide> they've been working on the wrong thing for the past few years
Dec 18 11:53:01 <cutmasta> perhaps
Dec 18 11:53:02 <landslide> .NET CF runs like a complete dog on windows mobile phones
Dec 18 11:53:04 <cutmasta> perhaps not
Dec 18 11:53:23 <cutmasta> i like that they did not choose the java micro crap
Dec 18 11:53:32 <landslide> agreed.
Dec 18 11:53:45 <landslide> i think they were very smart to optimise the VM.
Dec 18 11:53:58 <landslide> maybe they learnt a thing or two from MS...
Dec 18 11:54:30 <landslide> the problem with sun (talking J2ME) is that they are too academic.
Dec 18 11:54:35 <landslide> not practical enough.
Dec 18 11:54:39 <cutmasta> yes
Dec 18 11:54:49 <landslide> i was really impressed with the XMPP system too
Dec 18 11:54:54 <landslide> the idea of presence.
Dec 18 11:55:04 <Stephmw> landslide: I disagree... the problem with J2ME is that the JCP is too political
Dec 18 11:55:14 <landslide> i've been working on a very similar system for the company I work for. (on windows mobile)
Dec 18 11:55:34 <landslide> stephmw: yep good point.
Dec 18 11:55:52 <Stephmw> landslide: the biggest failuer of J2ME was the sheer number of optional bits
Dec 18 11:55:53 <landslide> what I meant by academic is they talk more than they do.
Dec 18 11:55:54 <landslide> ;)
Dec 18 11:55:58 <Stephmw> oh, right :)
Dec 18 11:56:02 <Stephmw> *failure
Dec 18 11:56:13 <Stephmw> <-- J2ME API developer
Dec 18 11:56:14 <landslide> trying to be everything to everyone.
Dec 18 11:56:24 <Stephmw> aye, the ultimate compromise mess
Dec 18 11:56:27 <landslide> i avoided it all together.
Dec 18 11:56:37 <landslide> i've been coding C++ on windows ce for the past 7 years or so
Dec 18 11:56:51 <landslide> it's really the only viable way to write big thick applications on mobile devices.
Dec 18 11:57:15 <Stephmw> I've done Java/J2ME/C on embedded and mobile for 5 years now
Dec 18 11:57:17 <landslide> but that is changing...
Dec 18 11:57:46 <Stephmw> and I have to say that Jazelle is the embedded world's reply to JIT :)
Dec 18 11:57:58 <landslide> so are there any specs for dalvik?
Dec 18 11:58:10 <landslide> or is it all under the hood at the moment and google haven't yet popped the hood?
Dec 18 11:59:03 <cutmasta> landslide, afaik, they will release more detailed stuff (source) later
Dec 18 11:59:30 <landslide> i have a theory too, and i'm interested in what you guys think....
Dec 18 11:59:40 <landslide> i have a feeling that android IS the iphone SDK.
Dec 18 11:59:44 <landslide> would it make sense?
Dec 18 12:00:17 <landslide> it almost fits...
Dec 18 12:00:26 <cutmasta> landslide, puh, no idea
Dec 18 12:00:28 <davidw> no, it isn't
Dec 18 12:00:31 <landslide> apple have been working with this for 2 years now.
Dec 18 12:00:39 <landslide> didn't google buy android like in 2005?
Dec 18 12:00:49 <landslide> and the iphone has been in development for 2 years.
Dec 18 12:01:00 <landslide> and eric is on the board of apple...
Dec 18 12:01:02 <landslide> etc.. etc...
Dec 18 12:01:08 <Stephmw> landslide: naaah, the iphone hackers are fairly clear about the underlying structures
Dec 18 12:01:13 <Stephmw> landslide: they're not related
Dec 18 12:01:31 <Stephmw> (technically anyway)
Dec 18 12:02:04 <landslide> i just have this gut feeling....
Dec 18 12:02:15 <davidw> maybe you ate a lot of beans or something
Dec 18 12:02:19 <landslide> haha.
Dec 18 12:02:25 <landslide> maybe i'm right, maybe i'm wrong.
Dec 18 12:02:36 <davidw> want to bet money?
Dec 18 12:02:44 <landslide> it's just the comments by SJ on the SDK ('we're going to be doing something very different')
Dec 18 12:02:46 <landslide> it fits.
Dec 18 12:03:08 <landslide> i think it makes a lot of sense to do this too
Dec 18 12:03:13 <davidw> well, the people who have actually, you know, examined in detail the two systems indicate that they are quite different
Dec 18 12:03:24 <landslide> the way applications run in sandboxes.
Dec 18 12:03:48 * davidw is much more interested in Android and is keeping his fingers crossed that it does ok
Dec 18 12:03:51 <landslide> thats a major solution to issues plaguing windows mobile.. like the phone not being a higher-order function of the device.
Dec 18 12:04:07 <davidw> actually, the thing that would kill all of these platforms dead is always on connections for phones
Dec 18 12:04:17 <davidw> well, not completely dead, but a big blow, to be sure
Dec 18 12:04:19 <davidw> hi dims
Dec 18 12:06:44 <landslide> who knows.. if it is the case... i've called it first ;)
Dec 18 12:07:30 <landslide> i don't really think there would be any smoking gun in the iphone... the only thing the iphone would need is the ability to have the platform delivered to it and enough free memory ;)
Dec 18 12:16:46 <landslide> so how do I telnet into android?
Dec 18 12:17:07 <davidw> the documentation covers that, I think
Dec 18 12:21:01 <landslide> ah yeah found it
Dec 18 14:30:50 <dims> hi davidw
Dec 18 14:36:21 <dims> folks, accessing tasks HOWTO - http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/android-task-manager-primitive-prototype/
Dec 18 14:40:07 <rangen> nice
Dec 18 14:43:32 <dragor43> Has anyone had any success creating a class implementing the Parcelable interface? Seems the example given by Google doesn't even compile...
Dec 18 14:46:38 <dragor43> ha! nevermind. i decompiled the Rect class directly and got the working code.
Dec 18 15:59:47 <davidw> there is some weirdness with resources
Dec 18 15:59:50 <davidw> in the emulator
Dec 18 16:07:03 <davidw> never mind....
Dec 18 17:51:00 <cutmasta> someone logged the url where dims posted the tasks example 2 hours ago?
Dec 18 17:52:55 <dragor43> anyone have some success in creating a Parcelable object and getting aidl to generate a java file for it etc?
Dec 18 17:53:16 <jasta> http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/android-task-manager-primitive-prototype/
Dec 18 17:54:30 <cutmasta> jasta, thx
Dec 18 17:58:36 <dragor43> oh well, screw Parcelables.
Dec 18 18:16:26 <jasta> hehehe
Dec 18 18:16:45 <NumBeast> is this the android of gogle?
Dec 18 18:16:50 <NumBeast> *google
Dec 18 18:17:08 <jasta> yes.
Dec 18 18:18:58 <NumBeast> anyone here who can tell me about content providers?
Dec 18 18:19:09 <jasta> quite a few of us could, i imagine.
Dec 18 18:19:25 <NumBeast> actually, how in the world I'm supposed to use a cursor
Dec 18 18:19:29 <jasta> but, perhaps Google's documentation would be the best fit.
Dec 18 18:19:55 <NumBeast> Google's documentation gives me an overview
Dec 18 18:20:07 <NumBeast> And they give very detailed API's
Dec 18 18:20:24 <jasta> In a sense, I suppose.  But they also have API samples, including the NotePad application which implements a ContentProvider.
Dec 18 18:20:36 <jasta> also, there are numerous open source projects that already exist which also show this functionality.
Dec 18 18:20:45 <NumBeast> allright, thanks
Dec 18 18:20:59 <NumBeast> could you give me an example that you know of off the top of your head?
Dec 18 18:22:09 <NumBeast> of a project
Dec 18 18:29:03 <jasta> well, mine.
Dec 18 18:29:08 <jasta> http://android-rss.googlecode.com/
Dec 18 18:29:29 <Zer0Her0> hehe
Dec 18 18:29:35 <jasta> although, you might argue that Luniv's project is a better example of a content provider.
Dec 18 18:30:16 <NumBeast> thank you
Dec 18 18:30:49 <jasta> i'm gonna make a cards game over xmas break, i think.
Dec 18 18:31:12 <jasta> my gf makes phone purchases based on the availability of good hearts, freecell, and solitaire games
Dec 18 18:31:21 <jasta> so maybe i'll entice her to buy an android phone when they come out
Dec 18 18:32:27 <Lede> you must have a large xmas break
Dec 18 18:33:03 * Lede has 0 day(s) off
Dec 18 18:33:05 <Lede> :p
Dec 18 18:33:47 * NumBeast has 2 weeks off, but there won't be a dev computer in sight...
Dec 18 18:38:00 <jasta> i get 3 days around xmas, 2 days around new years, and i took 2 days vacation
Dec 18 18:38:03 <jasta> so yeah, quite a bit
Dec 18 19:00:30 <absentia> my last job had 4 weeks of paid vacation (20 days) and 12 days of sick that carried over.
Dec 18 19:00:33 <absentia> my new job sucks.
Dec 18 19:01:09 <Zer0Her0> wow
Dec 18 19:02:07 <Lede> that's normal
Dec 18 19:02:17 <Lede> atleast, in most countries
Dec 18 19:02:37 <Zer0Her0> 2 weeks yearly here
Dec 18 19:02:52 <Zer0Her0> sick i get more though i get 2 weeks personal sick and 2 weeks family sick time.
Dec 18 19:02:53 <xbit> 5 weeks here :)
Dec 18 19:05:03 <romainguy> xbit: France? :)
Dec 18 19:05:41 <xbit> norway
Dec 18 19:05:54 <romainguy> I miss France's 5 weeks :)
Dec 18 19:25:59 <jasta> the US is pretty normal at 2 weeks of vacation annually, i think.
Dec 18 19:26:15 <jasta> that's all i get, anyway.
Dec 18 19:26:25 <jasta> although i'm trying to negotiate for a one-shot increase of 2 weeks for this next year :)
Dec 18 19:26:29 <absentia> 2 weeks = 10 days?
Dec 18 19:26:41 <jasta> yeah
Dec 18 19:26:43 <absentia> here is lame.. we have 10 days.. vacation *and* sick...  ie: it's both... if you're sick one day, then you only have 9 days left.
Dec 18 19:26:47 <davidw> jasta, actually, it's less than what most wealthy countries get
Dec 18 19:26:56 <davidw> absentia, where's that?
Dec 18 19:27:01 <absentia> last place I worked, was 4 weeks (20 days) paid vacation... *and* 12 days of sick -- on top of that... and sick days acrried over.
Dec 18 19:27:32 <jasta> i was in the hospital and out of work for 2 weeks in the summer and they tried to take all my vacation + sick time before they paid out disability
Dec 18 19:27:39 <jasta> i fought them on it and got them to just take all my sick leave
Dec 18 19:27:46 <absentia> xn/whois jasta
Dec 18 19:28:02 <jasta> i'll save you the typing: i live in the US.
Dec 18 19:28:08 <absentia> :-)
Dec 18 19:28:33 <jasta> i had like a day or two shy of 2 weeks vacation + sick time saved and they wanted to take it all :\
Dec 18 19:28:37 <jasta> bastards
Dec 18 19:28:57 <absentia> I'm at the point where I'm about to say i am going to take 30 days unpaid vacation
Dec 18 19:28:59 <absentia> see what they say
Dec 18 19:28:59 <absentia> :-)
Dec 18 19:29:11 <jasta> davidw: I meant it's normal in the US to get 2 weeks, not that that's normal internationally.
Dec 18 19:29:39 <jasta>  i'm going to ireland for 3 weeks in september and i'm just taking 1 week unpaid :\
Dec 18 19:29:43 <morrildl> jasta: that's actually the standard by federal labor law.  your employer can require you to use up all your paid time off before they have to give you short-term disability
Dec 18 19:30:00 <morrildl> jasta: ...which is not to say it's a good thing ;)
Dec 18 19:30:13 <jasta> morrildl: well, i got them to not, at least.
Dec 18 19:30:25 <jasta> i lost 1 week of sick time, and then got 50% pay on short-term disability for the remaining week i was out
Dec 18 19:31:13 <davidw> OTOH, it's easier to start a company and hire people in the US because you don't get saddled with tons of payments... it's almost always a tradeoff
Dec 18 19:31:14 <jasta> they were especially generous since it wasn't my fault :)
Dec 18 19:31:54 <jasta> it still sucked though.  50% pay for 1 week and $2500 in medical bills, :(
Dec 18 19:32:14 <davidw> for instance in Italy, the maternity leave stuff is very generous.  Consequence: employers avoid women of childbearing age like the plague
Dec 18 19:32:20 <davidw> ouch
Dec 18 19:32:30 <davidw> health care in the US is definitely screwed up
Dec 18 19:32:36 <absentia> I wasn't given any time off to see my first born -- my son.. born
Dec 18 19:32:43 <davidw> absentia, once again - where?
Dec 18 19:32:51 <jasta> no kidding.  the total bill was over $10K, and insurance kicked in.  i was only in the hospital for 14 hours!
Dec 18 19:32:54 <absentia> florida
Dec 18 19:32:56 <absentia> start up
Dec 18 19:32:57 <davidw> ah
Dec 18 19:33:22 <jasta> i had 4 cat scans done, 2 x-rays, and then they let me out.  that cost $10K, apparently.
Dec 18 19:33:25 <davidw> basically, I would tell people like that where to stick it - it's easy to find new jobs in the states
Dec 18 19:33:26 <absentia> whatever. all my options have vested. .I'm leaving.
Dec 18 19:33:32 <davidw> ah, I see
Dec 18 19:33:34 <jasta> on the itemized bill it said "EMERGENCY LEVEL: $1400"
Dec 18 19:33:36 <davidw> options
Dec 18 19:33:50 <jasta> it cost me $1400 for being in the emergency room with a real emergency, i guess.
Dec 18 19:33:57 <jasta> how cute.
Dec 18 19:34:02 <xbit> very cute ;p
Dec 18 19:34:05 <absentia> jasta: yup. ocosts you $1400 to sit there for 3 hours
Dec 18 19:34:17 <jasta> well, i was unconscious for 3 hours.  that probably cost a lot too.
Dec 18 19:34:41 <nicocin> I don't get any sick leave :^(  ........college kid just working part time :^)
Dec 18 19:34:53 <Lede> i bet if there would be social healthcare in the US people would complain about paying for something they don't use
Dec 18 19:35:49 <xbit> maybe
Dec 18 19:35:55 <absentia> my health insurance is $1200 a month.
Dec 18 19:36:02 <absentia> I'm perfectly heathly.. same with my wife.
Dec 18 19:36:02 <Lede> :-o
Dec 18 19:36:15 <jasta> i don't pay for any dependents, so my health insurance is $0 :)
Dec 18 19:36:35 <absentia> so, do nyc rent: $3K rent, $1200/mo health... $800 car .. that's $5K before food or anything else.
Dec 18 19:36:42 <xbit> $1200 a month?!
Dec 18 19:36:47 <xbit> you gotta be kidding
Dec 18 19:36:52 <absentia> yes
Dec 18 19:37:04 <jasta> my brother pays for his wife and kid and i think he's at like $650 or $700/mo.
Dec 18 19:37:11 <xbit> why the difference?
Dec 18 19:37:12 <absentia> my company only covers 50% for me.. so that's like $300 .. then 600 for my wife and 300 for my child.. so that's 300+600+300
Dec 18 19:37:32 <jasta> hmm?
Dec 18 19:37:33 <absentia> my fed taxes are like 1600 a month
Dec 18 19:37:35 <davidw> good article about US health care system: http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=112107D  (it's a hard problem)
Dec 18 19:37:38 <xbit> ah, the whole family i see
Dec 18 19:37:54 <absentia> I just paid off my car -- I figure that will save me $2500 this year, alone.
Dec 18 19:38:13 <jasta> absentia: your rent is $3K/mo?  you're insane.
Dec 18 19:38:17 <xbit> so it will cover two months of healt insurance :p
Dec 18 19:38:18 <absentia> in nyc
Dec 18 19:38:23 <jasta> my rent is $450/mo, and I live in Seattle.
Dec 18 19:38:35 <Zer0Her0> geez
Dec 18 19:38:36 <absentia> my rent was -- I moved down here... to fl.. now in florida, my rent actually went down.  :-) it's $1400 now... but I'm moving back to nyc.
Dec 18 19:38:48 <jasta> and i live in a 3000 sq ft house, although i do live with 3 of my friends.
Dec 18 19:38:57 <Zer0Her0> 450?! i'm in albany ny area and it's 600
Dec 18 19:38:57 <absentia> I haven't had $400/mo since '87
Dec 18 19:39:00 <absentia> er, '89
Dec 18 19:39:19 <jasta> yeah, our total rent is $2000/mo for 3000 sq ft.  it's insane :)
Dec 18 19:39:36 <absentia> I don't want to live with roommates anymore
Dec 18 19:39:44 <jasta> the house isn't really nice by any stretch, but we've got 4 bedrooms and 4 bath.  it's pretty sweet :)
Dec 18 19:39:54 <Lede> 4 baths oke..
Dec 18 19:39:55 <Zer0Her0> oh
Dec 18 19:39:59 <absentia> in nyc, to break my last lease.. with 3 months left.. I needed to pay 3 months rent.
Dec 18 19:40:03 <jasta> and a pool table (mine) and wet bar upstairs...
Dec 18 19:40:10 <absentia> my rent was about $2500 -- so to BREAK my lease, it would have cost me $7500
Dec 18 19:40:12 <Zer0Her0> yea i live alone, my friend wants to be roomates, but i can't deal with that i don't think
Dec 18 19:40:26 <absentia> to move in, they want fist month, last month and a deposit... so, for a $3K apartment, you need $9K to move in.
Dec 18 19:40:30 <jasta> absentia: maybe you should look at buying.  or moving.
Dec 18 19:40:46 <absentia> ya, I had a roommate once.. .who use to make steak and onions on the stove at 3am
Dec 18 19:40:47 <jasta> paying more than $1K/mo in rent is a huge waste of money.
Dec 18 19:40:51 <absentia> and then take a 45 minute shower.
Dec 18 19:41:01 <absentia> have yo uever seen what the rent is like in nyc?
Dec 18 19:41:07 <absentia> apartments start at 1.2mil
Dec 18 19:41:13 <absentia> the avg price went up 40% in *1* year
Dec 18 19:41:14 <davidw> "jerry, I'm not comin' out!"
Dec 18 19:41:16 <jasta> no, but that's maybe why you should move ;)
Dec 18 19:41:21 <absentia> true
Dec 18 19:41:24 <absentia> I use to live in times suare
Dec 18 19:41:27 <absentia> square
Dec 18 19:41:31 <Lede> davidw: "that's it, i'm coming in!"
Dec 18 19:41:49 <Lede> "noo!"
Dec 18 19:41:56 <jasta> Seattle is not known for being cheap, but you can still find places for a reasonable amount.  You just can't pretend like you're living in the suburb and expect all those luxuries.
Dec 18 19:42:10 <Zer0Her0> IN time square?
Dec 18 19:42:16 <absentia> ya
Dec 18 19:42:18 <absentia> 50th and 8th.
Dec 18 19:42:20 <jasta> see, that is stupid.
Dec 18 19:42:25 <absentia> use to be a website for the building... but then it was sold.
Dec 18 19:42:36 <absentia> well, I'm thinking about moving back up there...
Dec 18 19:42:38 <davidw> absentia, in the square, or in an apt thereabouts?
Dec 18 19:42:42 <absentia> we can find 2 bedroom places for $2750 a month.
Dec 18 19:42:46 * Zer0Her0 envisions absentia peaking up from under a manhole cover
Dec 18 19:42:57 <jasta> Zer0Her0: for $2500/mo?
Dec 18 19:43:03 <Zer0Her0> huh
Dec 18 19:43:11 <jasta> nevermind
Dec 18 19:43:22 <Zer0Her0> ok
Dec 18 19:43:27 <jasta> absentia: sounds like you need to learn to be thrifty my friend.
Dec 18 19:43:32 <absentia> ddavidw: in the theatre district, across from the gershwin theatre... on 50th.. a building called "the gershwin" .. whenever you see a show about nyc and they show this building 9the old  madison square garden building) .. with a orange triangle at the top.. in lights... the building I lived in is right behind that.
Dec 18 19:43:43 <jasta> the only people who should be able to afford $3000/mo rent are also the people who should be able to afford 1 million dollar condos.
Dec 18 19:43:52 <Zer0Her0> jasta: why?
Dec 18 19:43:53 <jasta> so if that's not you, i think you're living a bit outside your means buddy :)
Dec 18 19:44:00 <absentia> use to walk across the street to take the E train (from 50th) down to chambers.. world trade center.  last stop pn the E
Dec 18 19:44:02 <Zer0Her0> it's not like i can take this crap with me when i'm dead
Dec 18 19:44:13 <absentia> walk 2 blocks to 2 world financial center... work all day.. then reverse.
Dec 18 19:44:25 <absentia> subway came up in my building -- I didn't even own an umbrella in nyc
Dec 18 19:44:32 <jasta> Zer0Her0: ownership affords you equity, which you can use while you're still alive.
Dec 18 19:44:37 <absentia> (since from chambers to 2 wfc was all scaffolding and construction due to the new trade centers)
Dec 18 19:44:57 <absentia> when the centers were hit -- I was lvigin 2 blocks south.. .at 21 west street...  a studio apartment .. .for $2100 /mo
Dec 18 19:44:57 <davidw> Zer0Her0, me, I want a pyramid erected with me in it so that I can take it.
Dec 18 19:45:04 <Zer0Her0> davidw: haha
Dec 18 19:45:16 <jasta> it's a much smarter arrangement to pay $2000/mo toward a mortgage than $1000/mo toward rent.
Dec 18 19:45:19 <jasta> for example.
Dec 18 19:45:28 <absentia> sure
Dec 18 19:45:32 <absentia> but you need that downpayment
Dec 18 19:45:42 <davidw> unless it's a subprime mortgage in an area with falling values, in which case you're up shit creek
Dec 18 19:45:43 <absentia> until recently, I didn'thave it.
Dec 18 19:45:50 <absentia> davidw: welcome to florida
Dec 18 19:45:53 <jasta> well, live in a small apartment in the suburbs and save up some money you crazy fool! :)
Dec 18 19:45:55 <absentia> 1/2 of the houses are up for sale.
Dec 18 19:46:08 * absentia has some extra income this year...
Dec 18 19:46:10 <absentia> luckily.
Dec 18 19:46:59 <absentia> I've finally figured out how to make money.  you have to make a prpduct (say on android) .. and then sell it.  it's the only way.
Dec 18 19:47:04 <absentia> I'm thinking about taking a year off just to work on android
Dec 18 19:48:55 <davidw> money comes from scarcity
Dec 18 19:49:26 <jasta> hmm, i'm doing pretty damn ok.  my rent is $450/mo, my work pays for my cell phone, and i own my car.
Dec 18 19:49:29 <absentia> everything is about timing.  of course, I would make some moey during the worst time for the dollar in my entire lifetime.  but what the hell.
Dec 18 19:49:44 <absentia> ya, I just paid off my car.  figure that lone will save $2500 this year.
Dec 18 19:49:44 <NumBeast> are you willin to bet your money on android being a huge success
Dec 18 19:49:50 <jasta> also, i get $500/mo bonus checks from work, so i have basically no recurring expenses other than food and entertainment.
Dec 18 19:50:04 <davidw> the best money comes from passive income
Dec 18 19:50:06 <NumBeast> there's media hype now, but by the end of 2008, it might ave died down
Dec 18 19:50:07 <absentia> what do you do ?
Dec 18 19:50:17 <absentia> davidw: yup.  you need to earn money while yo sleep.
Dec 18 19:50:27 <jasta> absentia: nothing special, i make a pretty average software engineer's salary.
Dec 18 19:50:31 <absentia> num: that's the key.
Dec 18 19:50:32 <jasta> i also don't have student loans of any kind.
Dec 18 19:50:39 <absentia> but it is java.  although, I prefer C++ ....
Dec 18 19:51:00 <absentia> I would make a product independent of android, but with an android interface.
Dec 18 19:51:08 <davidw> I kind of skipped c++... it doesn't really appeal to me
Dec 18 19:51:09 <jasta> i just have found a way to really make my money build capital instead of pissing it away.
Dec 18 19:51:11 <absentia> so it wouldn't matter if android was successful or not.
Dec 18 19:51:36 <absentia> to me,java is c++ with training wheels.
Dec 18 19:52:45 <Yeggstry> that's probably why they chose it
Dec 18 19:52:57 <Yeggstry> so the developer base is as large as possible
Dec 18 19:53:06 <NumBeast> absentia: I don't want to start a flame war, but Google must have thought java was better to have chosen it
Dec 18 19:53:08 <Yeggstry> sorry, potential developer base
Dec 18 19:53:17 <jasta> yes, please, let's not start a flame war.
Dec 18 19:53:27 <jasta> nobody here likes either Java or C++, can't we just leave it at that? :)
Dec 18 19:53:34 <absentia> num:  there are certain positives..  dime a dozen programmers.. sandbox.... etc.
Dec 18 19:53:48 <davidw> right, Hecl is better
Dec 18 19:54:07 <absentia> high level assembly?
Dec 18 19:54:16 <davidw> eh?
Dec 18 19:54:32 <davidw> that's C: all the power of assembly, with all the ease of use of assembly
Dec 18 19:55:17 <absentia> :-)
Dec 18 19:55:25 <absentia> C is just macro assembly.
Dec 18 19:55:32 <jasta> careful.
Dec 18 19:55:50 <absentia> I never got into C, but I love C++
Dec 18 19:55:56 <benley> ew
Dec 18 19:56:01 <jasta> i am an unusual breed being a heavily seasoned C programmer, and i will not hesitate to rip you all a new one :)
Dec 18 19:56:06 <absentia> of course, I started with java in '95 ...
Dec 18 19:56:28 <absentia> there's nothing wrong with C at all  -- it's a great small language.
Dec 18 19:56:30 <jerkface03> i also love c++, with all of it's ambigious language features and wierd syntax error msgs
Dec 18 19:57:08 <absentia> that's like saying you like lisp for the white space.
Dec 18 19:57:15 <jerkface03> exactly.
Dec 18 19:57:26 * davidw likes C a lot, but has no occasion to use it these days
Dec 18 19:58:20 <absentia> what's happening on #startups?
Dec 18 19:58:21 <jerkface03> i remember doing brew development last yer using the gnu toolchain
Dec 18 19:58:28 <davidw> absentia, not much
Dec 18 19:58:30 <jerkface03> using static variables would brick the phone
Dec 18 19:58:38 <jerkface03> no rtti
Dec 18 19:58:38 <davidw> nice
Dec 18 19:58:53 <jerkface03> no stl
Dec 18 19:59:00 <jerkface03> no standard packages at all
Dec 18 19:59:02 <absentia> ha
Dec 18 19:59:27 <jerkface03> that's the beauty of c++, you never know what you get when you switch from platform to platform
Dec 18 19:59:38 <jerkface03> one could say that it's like a box of chocolates :X
Dec 18 19:59:41 <benley> sure you do.
Dec 18 19:59:42 <benley> "a headache"
Dec 18 19:59:43 <absentia> shouldn't hate the language due to someone's shitty implementation of it
Dec 18 20:00:04 <absentia> life is like a box of C++?
Dec 18 20:00:09 <davidw> C is small and simple and has no frills - C++ is big and complex and still doesn't have some important frills like GC
Dec 18 20:00:13 <absentia> life is like a C++ compiler, you never know what you're gonna get?
Dec 18 20:00:14 <absentia> naw.
Dec 18 20:00:16 <absentia> not quite the same.
Dec 18 20:00:31 <absentia> c++ shouldn't have GC
Dec 18 20:00:57 <absentia> once size doesn't fit all.  if you need or want a GC, you implement one..and there are many out there.. many far better than, say, java's gc
Dec 18 20:01:09 <absentia> you get and use the one that works best for your particular needs.
Dec 18 20:01:15 <absentia> I don't see an issue with this.
Dec 18 20:01:22 <Lede> you can use reference counting pointers for most memory managment issues
Dec 18 20:01:37 <absentia> RAII, baby.
Dec 18 20:01:57 <davidw> I don't know... the whole thing just strikes me as a big messy hairball
Dec 18 20:01:59 <Lede> woo! :)
Dec 18 20:03:43 <davidw> I wish I could get someone to pay me to talk about programming languages all day;-)
Dec 18 20:03:52 * absentia waves.
Dec 18 20:03:57 <Lede> they call it "consulting"
Dec 18 20:07:24 <davidw> yeah, but it's not easy to find gigs at that level
Dec 18 20:08:28 <absentia> I walked away from a $150K/yr consulting job because they wanted me to use windows.
Dec 18 20:08:33 <absentia> whenI was hired as a solaris admin
Dec 18 20:08:48 <absentia> all travel, hotel and food paid... all I did was earn income.
Dec 18 20:08:55 <absentia> but still not worth the stress/hassle of using windows.
Dec 18 20:09:18 <Lede> no joke
Dec 18 20:09:27 <davidw> the last time I had to use windows, I put together this, but... yeah, it's an awful experience: http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users.html
Dec 18 20:10:22 <absentia> well
Dec 18 20:10:27 <absentia> mymachine was rebooting 6 times a day
Dec 18 20:10:37 <absentia> and it would take 20 minutesd to get back to where I was in the apps I was developing, etc.
Dec 18 20:10:50 <absentia> and then there was the 1 out of 4 chance that the crash would corrupt my work.
Dec 18 20:10:55 <absentia> after 2 weeks, I said forget it.
Dec 18 20:11:20 <absentia> plus it was solid 12 hour days and then the boss wanted to go out and party all night.
Dec 18 20:12:08 <absentia> there's more to life than money.
Dec 18 20:17:16 <absentia> so.. back to android.
Dec 18 20:18:27 <davidw> yeah... let's see if we can copy what dims is doing with Hecl
Dec 18 20:18:29 <davidw> for fun
Dec 18 20:19:32 <davidw> sweet
Dec 18 20:22:51 <absentia> what's that ?
Dec 18 20:24:03 <NumBeast> It anyone else having troubles with playing music
Dec 18 20:24:06 <NumBeast> ?
Dec 18 20:25:54 <davidw> absentia, http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/android-task-manager-primitive-prototype/
Dec 18 20:26:03 <davidw> he's doing lots of good hacking on android
Dec 18 20:27:31 <Dreadddddd> Hi
Dec 18 20:27:31 <Dreadddddd> who can help me?
Dec 18 20:27:55 <cutmasta> 911?
Dec 18 20:27:59 <cutmasta> ;)
Dec 18 20:28:09 <absentia> thanks
Dec 18 20:29:56 <Dreadddddd> cutmasta no -)
Dec 18 20:30:13 <Dreadddddd> ok.. some question..
Dec 18 20:30:45 <Dreadddddd> 1) android - unix mobile system writed on java?
Dec 18 20:33:19 <davidw> I'll take Google for 200, Alex
Dec 18 20:34:27 <cutmasta> NumBeast, what probloems do you have
Dec 18 20:34:48 <NumBeast> what's up Dreadddddd
Dec 18 20:35:11 <NumBeast> cutmasta, to pu tis simply, I can't read any music except the preloaded
Dec 18 20:35:21 <cutmasta> hmm
Dec 18 20:35:24 <NumBeast> *to put it simply*
Dec 18 20:35:29 <cutmasta> i pushed an mp3 file to the emu
Dec 18 20:35:34 <cutmasta> and the simple played it
Dec 18 20:35:38 <cutmasta>  a 1 liner
Dec 18 20:35:48 <NumBeast> mp.create() returns a null player
Dec 18 20:35:54 <cutmasta> mom
Dec 18 20:36:13 <Dreadddddd> NumBeast what's up = hi ? -)
Dec 18 20:36:13 <Dreadddddd> NumBeast Sorry but I am not a nigga $)
Dec 18 20:36:23 <cutmasta> MediaPlayer mp = new MediaPlayer();
Dec 18 20:36:23 <cutmasta>         try {
Dec 18 20:36:23 <cutmasta>                         mp.setDataSource("/data/call.mp3");
Dec 18 20:36:23 <cutmasta>                         mp.prepare();
Dec 18 20:36:23 <cutmasta>                 mp.start();
Dec 18 20:36:43 <cutmasta> NumBeast, thats all
Dec 18 20:36:51 <NumBeast> I know it works
Dec 18 20:37:01 <NumBeast> it works for me when I point it at any system file
Dec 18 20:37:26 <cutmasta> yes, playing from any URL does not work here also
Dec 18 20:37:27 <NumBeast> but when I adb push to the device, and try to play the file, I get silence
Dec 18 20:37:49 <NumBeast> I tried a chmod from the shell, but that doesn't work
Dec 18 20:37:59 <NumBeast> I can't play from an SD card either
Dec 18 20:38:28 <cutmasta> hmm
Dec 18 20:38:39 <cutmasta> i piushed the mp3 per commandline
Dec 18 20:39:20 <Dreadddddd> 1) android - unix mobile system writed on java?
Dec 18 20:40:16 * Lede goes into facepalm mode
Dec 18 20:40:32 <NumBeast> android - linux running a java VM
Dec 18 20:41:37 <NumBeast> I'm running Ubuntu Linux - 7.10
Dec 18 20:41:53 <NumBeast> any ideas?
Dec 18 20:42:56 <Dreadddddd> ok
Dec 18 20:44:20 <Dreadddddd> android write port on QC MSM7260
Dec 18 20:44:20 <Dreadddddd> ?
Dec 18 20:45:50 <NumBeast> what?
Dec 18 20:45:58 <NumBeast> sorry, I didn't understand
Dec 18 20:48:21 <NumBeast> Dreadddddd lol, I finally got what you were saying
Dec 18 20:49:01 <NumBeast> Dreadddddd what's up was my way of saying, "what's your problem", "what are you asking about", "how can I help you",etc
Dec 18 20:49:31 <Dreadddddd> chipset
Dec 18 20:49:31 <Dreadddddd> kernel write for what chipset?
Dec 18 20:49:31 <Dreadddddd> MSM7260 ?
Dec 18 20:49:32 <Dreadddddd> Quallcom?
Dec 18 20:49:53 <NumBeast> one sec, I think I know
Dec 18 20:50:08 <Dreadddddd> -)
Dec 18 20:50:13 <Dreadddddd> sam ti lol
Dec 18 20:50:58 <NumBeast> Qualcomm MSM7200
Dec 18 20:51:06 <NumBeast> as far as I know
Dec 18 20:51:26 <NumBeast> http://www.helloandroid.com/node/117
Dec 18 20:56:55 <Dreadddddd> NumBeast where a u ?
Dec 18 20:56:55 <Dreadddddd> ok
Dec 18 20:57:57 <Dreadddddd> and.. MSM6250 will be suported in future ?
Dec 18 21:03:20 <NumBeast> idk
Dec 18 21:03:23 <NumBeast> might be
Dec 18 21:03:36 <NumBeast> but I think it's more of phones being made for the kernal
Dec 18 21:03:44 <NumBeast> than the kernal being made for phones
Dec 18 21:04:16 <Dreadddddd> Dreadddddd MSM6250 and 7200 is too diferent ?
Dec 18 21:05:54 <Dreadddddd> Dreadddddd MSM6250 and 7200 is too diferent ?
Dec 18 21:06:34 <NumBeast> idk
Dec 18 21:10:22 <Dreadddddd> idk ?
Dec 18 21:10:24 <Dreadddddd> sdk ?
Dec 18 21:10:34 <NumBeast> idk: I don't know
Dec 18 21:10:47 <Dreadddddd> bugaga
Dec 18 21:10:49 <Dreadddddd> -)
Dec 18 21:11:06 <Dreadddddd> ãû
Dec 18 21:11:08 <Dreadddddd> ãû = lol
Dec 18 21:11:18 <Dreadddddd> -)
Dec 18 21:16:11 <benley> there are a lot of ddddddddds on my screen
Dec 18 21:18:52 <NumBeast> could dread do a /nick plz
Dec 18 21:18:57 <NumBeast> plz plz plz
Dec 18 21:35:20 <jasta> hmm, the "My Google Groups Topics" iGoogle gadget doesn't seem to work right.
Dec 18 21:38:58 <jerkface03> is a new version of the sdk out yet?
Dec 18 21:39:05 <jasta> as of like a week ago, yes.
Dec 18 21:39:18 <jerkface03> does the emulator have all of the apis implemented?
Dec 18 21:39:25 <jasta> m3-rc37a
Dec 18 21:39:30 <jasta> no.
Dec 18 21:39:40 <jerkface03> do you know the link to the changes page?
Dec 18 21:39:55 <jasta> i'm sure you can find it, being the resourceful gentlemen that you are.
Dec 18 21:40:03 <jerkface03> fair enough
Dec 18 21:41:40 <jerkface03> hrm
Dec 18 21:42:00 <jerkface03> doesn't look like it's worth upgrading :X hopefully they'll put out an upgrade that supports ALL the apis they've listed before jan
Dec 18 21:42:13 <NumBeast> you could start at code.google.com/openintents and click the big link that says new sdk released
Dec 18 21:42:24 <NumBeast> lol
Dec 18 21:42:30 <duey> does it have camera support
Dec 18 21:42:44 <NumBeast> not yet
Dec 18 21:42:44 <jerkface03> dont know, but it doesn't have nio support
Dec 18 21:42:55 <NumBeast> but let me find a link, somebody got around that for you
Dec 18 21:42:56 <duey> use io
Dec 18 21:42:57 <duey> obv
Dec 18 21:43:16 <NumBeast> http://helloandroid.com/node/142
Dec 18 21:43:56 <duey> interesting
Dec 18 21:44:09 <duey> now they just need to make it > 1.3mp
Dec 18 21:45:06 <NumBeast> patience man
Dec 18 21:45:17 <duey> indeed
Dec 18 21:47:45 <sleepcat> how can I develop for android under solaris 10?
Dec 18 21:48:48 <Lede> you can't :/
Dec 18 21:49:25 <jasta> well, you could try porting the emulator :)
Dec 18 21:49:34 <jasta> although i suspect it would be difficult to do
Dec 18 21:49:51 <benley> I'd wait for more source to be released
Dec 18 21:50:47 <NumBeast> sleepcat: you probably need a *nix emulator
Dec 18 21:51:02 <Lede> solaris is *nix :P
Dec 18 21:51:42 <Lede> why would you use solaris 10 anyway..
Dec 18 21:51:45 <cypromis> yah it doesn't get much more *nix than that
Dec 18 21:52:20 <sleepcat> solaris 10 is the best unix OS
Dec 18 21:53:19 <benley> nowai dood solaris 11 man totally
Dec 18 21:53:46 <jerkface03> does anyone know if android's bt lib supports l2cap communication?
Dec 18 21:53:51 <jerkface03> i dont see anything in the api docs about l2cap
Dec 18 21:55:45 <NumBeast> lol, then the emulator is an elf executable I think
Dec 18 21:55:57 <NumBeast> you should be able to just run it in solaris then
Dec 18 21:56:36 <sleepcat> NumBeast: so which one do I download?  The LInux SDK?
Dec 18 21:57:19 <NumBeast> yeah
Dec 18 22:00:13 <Lede> i need a new pc
Dec 18 22:00:28 <Lede> eclipse + firefox is just too much
Dec 18 22:00:49 <NumBeast> Lede: just don't run them at the same time :P
Dec 18 22:01:07 <Lede> haha, yeah that would work
Dec 18 22:02:19 <benley> my favorite thing about eclipse is that it has completely unseated emacs for the title of "most bloated editor in the universe"
Dec 18 22:02:40 <davidw> by an order of magnitude
Dec 18 22:02:57 <davidw> and it still sucks compared to emacs, except for the fact that it knows java inside and out
Dec 18 22:03:07 <benley> meh
Dec 18 22:03:09 <NumBeast> benley but it looks better XD
Dec 18 22:03:19 * benley sticks to vim when he's not doing android tutorials for the most part :-P
Dec 18 22:03:41 <benley> (but I leave emacs people alone since they tend to have a clue)
Dec 18 22:03:48 <jasta> i hav erecently been trying to use eclim :)
Dec 18 22:03:50 <Lede> just wait for someone to write a complete eclipse IDE plugin for emacs.. in lisp..
Dec 18 22:29:05 <cutmasta> how can i read i file i need in my application?
Dec 18 22:29:24 <cutmasta> so i want to read a simple txt file and load it via FileInputStream
Dec 18 22:29:30 <cutmasta> how can i do this
Dec 18 22:29:55 <cutmasta> must i pack it into my apk file or push it do the emu??
Dec 18 22:32:33 <jasta> cutmasta: no, but you can put it in the apk.  if the file is static, then you should.
Dec 18 22:32:50 <jasta> this is well covered by google's documentation (storing and retrieving data)
Dec 18 22:33:17 <cutmasta> jasta, i ` ll have a look
Dec 18 22:33:19 <cutmasta> thank you
Dec 18 22:33:31 <cutmasta> and yes, its static
Dec 18 22:33:43 <cutmasta> simple txt file i need for init my app
Dec 18 22:35:25 * sleepcat requests android support for solaris
Dec 18 22:36:05 <jasta> cutmasta: put it in the raw resources, and then simply open it as you will see in the documentation.
Dec 18 22:36:08 <jasta> you can get an InputStream to it.
Dec 18 22:36:26 <ronghail> speaking of sleepcat when did oracle get berkeley db?  jesus it is hard to even find the download now, much less the docs
Dec 18 22:37:28 <jerkface03> last year?
Dec 18 22:37:31 <cutmasta> jasta, yep
Dec 18 22:37:36 <cutmasta> i just did that
Dec 18 22:37:38 <cutmasta> now compiling
Dec 18 22:37:40 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 18 22:41:01 <cybereagle> any google people around?
Dec 18 22:41:56 <benley> only unofficially
Dec 18 22:42:23 <sleepcat> unofficailly, does google use solaris?
Dec 18 22:42:38 <benley> a little.
Dec 18 22:42:38 <sleepcat> what about postgresql?
Dec 18 22:42:47 <benley> probably, but I don't know about postgres
Dec 18 22:42:58 <sleepcat> i hope they don't use mysql
Dec 18 22:43:17 <benley> the answer to "does google use X?" is generally "yes", but it's not always widely used.
Dec 18 22:43:45 <benley> it's publicly known that google uses mysql.
Dec 18 22:43:52 <cutmasta> somebody knows which Algorythms are implemtend on android?
Dec 18 22:44:11 <benley> sleepcat: http://www.mysql.com/customers/customer.php?id=75
Dec 18 22:44:11 <cutmasta> because i get NoSuchAlgorithmException: KeyManagerFactory SunX509 implementation not found
Dec 18 22:44:27 <sleepcat> why use mysql over postgresql?
Dec 18 22:44:33 <sleepcat> it doesn't make any sense!
Dec 18 22:46:53 <Lede> eh, does mysql even support clustering?
Dec 18 22:47:02 <cutmasta> Lede, yes
Dec 18 22:47:11 <Lede> scary
Dec 18 22:47:14 <cutmasta> but i also like pgsql more than mysql
Dec 18 22:47:43 <cybereagle> well i was just wondering if there's any plans to use a newer version of the apache.harmony libs in android, so that we can use the network channels for java.nio
Dec 18 22:48:06 <cybereagle> cos if thats the case, i'll update my emulator and carry on using nio
Dec 18 22:48:26 <benley> Lede: check out some of the talks about mysql at google - they mostly say that clustering is unnecessary
Dec 18 22:49:31 <cypromis> hmmm rdbms agains storage engine
Dec 18 22:49:50 <cypromis> mysql is pretty brainless
Dec 18 22:49:56 <cypromis> but people love using brainless stuff
Dec 18 22:50:58 <cutmasta> morrildl, can you help me to find out why  i get the "KeyManagerFactory SunX509 implementation not foun"
Dec 18 22:51:20 <davidw> pgsql +1
Dec 18 22:51:48 <benley> take it to #flamewars-about-databases :-P
Dec 18 22:52:33 * davidw goes to sleep, actually
Dec 18 22:53:09 <benley> good idea.  More productive.
Dec 19 00:14:06 <morrildl> cybereagle: there is at least one problematic NIO bug, that should be fixed in the next SDK release (not 37a)
Dec 19 00:16:02 <jerkface03> and the problematic io bug is that nio hasn't been implemented yet in the SDK
Dec 19 00:16:13 <duey> hey morrildl do you know if the reason you can only have 1.3MP photos is because of memory?
Dec 19 00:16:31 <jerkface03> nio*
Dec 19 00:16:59 <morrildl> duey: I didn't know that was the case :)
Dec 19 00:17:14 <duey> it could be fixed
Dec 19 00:17:15 <morrildl> duey: what are you trying to do?
Dec 19 00:17:18 <duey> heh
Dec 19 00:17:22 <duey> secret!!
Dec 19 00:17:26 <duey> image processing
Dec 19 00:17:41 <jerkface03> morrildl: do you know if udp nio will be implemented int he next release?
Dec 19 00:18:07 <morrildl> duey: well, I don't mean what app are you trying to write, I mean are you trying to save an image and it won't save over a certain size...?
Dec 19 00:18:19 <morrildl> duey: or are you using the camera API and it's not working correctly...?
Dec 19 00:18:23 <duey> the max canvas size is 1.3MP
Dec 19 00:18:26 <duey> sec
Dec 19 00:18:28 <duey> ill get the docs
Dec 19 00:19:04 <duey> "The CameraDevice class is used to open/release the camera driver, set image parameters and capture a preview frame (320*240 pixels) or a full-resolution image (1280*1024 pixels)"
Dec 19 00:19:38 <duey> i understand the general camera phone these days is 1.3MP
Dec 19 00:19:50 <duey> but higher end phones are 5MP
Dec 19 00:21:28 <morrildl> jerkface03: I thought it was already in there
Dec 19 00:21:43 <morrildl> It could be it got pulled out for not being stable enough in time for M3 though
Dec 19 00:22:25 <jerkface03> morrildl: well i tried it with the initial SDK and i got a linkerror
Dec 19 00:22:31 <jerkface03> has it been included in the dec 14 rls?
Dec 19 00:23:15 <morrildl> jerkface03: well, it has docs in the package list for it
Dec 19 00:23:24 <morrildl> I have not manually looked into the JAR
Dec 19 00:23:58 <jerkface03>  ya i've seen the docs, its just that the methods dont lead anywhere :)
Dec 19 00:30:21 <morrildl> jerkface03: well, the platform & core libraries didn't change much (or at all) in RC37A
Dec 19 00:30:31 <morrildl> so if it isn't working in the previous release, it's not likely to in RC37a either
Dec 19 00:30:47 <morrildl> that said, I'm looking at the classes now
Dec 19 00:30:53 <morrildl> and they're definitely in there :)
Dec 19 00:33:53 <morrildl> jerkface03: what specific classes are missing?
Dec 19 00:33:58 <morrildl> (or not working?)
Dec 19 00:34:54 <jerkface03> maybe im not being clear enough in my explination of the problem
Dec 19 00:34:55 <jerkface03> just a moment
Dec 19 00:36:40 <jerkface03> im not saying that any particular class or method doesn't exist
Dec 19 00:36:58 <jerkface03> what i am saying is that it's giving me back an UnsatisfiedLinkError
Dec 19 00:37:17 <jerkface03> which i believe means that the method is marked as native
Dec 19 00:37:28 <jerkface03> but isn't pointing anywhere
Dec 19 00:37:41 <jerkface03> "Thrown if the Java Virtual Machine cannot find an appropriate native-language definition of a method declared native. "
Dec 19 00:38:26 <jerkface03> am i making a bit more sense now?
Dec 19 00:39:12 <jerkface03> DatagramChannel.open();   <-- this is the offending call
Dec 19 00:45:22 <morrildl> ahhh
Dec 19 00:45:26 <morrildl> that's a different beast :)
Dec 19 00:46:22 <jerkface03> do you atleast know if a new sdk build is going to come out with it implemented before january
Dec 19 00:49:31 <morrildl> jerkface03: okay, it "shouldn't"
Dec 19 00:49:39 <jerkface03> it shouldn't what?
Dec 19 00:49:40 <morrildl> there "should" be a native implementation
Dec 19 00:49:49 <morrildl> whether that works or not is an open question
Dec 19 00:49:51 <jerkface03> ok, well, maybe i forgot to install something
Dec 19 00:49:54 <jerkface03> is it working for you?
Dec 19 00:50:02 <morrildl> jerkface03: you shouldn't need to install anything, it should just work
Dec 19 00:50:11 <morrildl> can you send me a small code sample that reproduces it?
Dec 19 00:50:26 <jerkface03> maybe, just a moment
Dec 19 00:55:53 <jerkface03> http://pastebin.ca/822883  <-- here you go
Dec 19 00:56:05 <jerkface03> took out the mounds of RUDP code to make it easy to spot :)
Dec 19 00:56:13 <jerkface03> line 39 throws the error
Dec 19 00:56:32 <jerkface03> basically calling DatagramChannel.open() always throws the error
Dec 19 01:12:02 <morrildl> jerkface03: thanks
Dec 19 01:12:21 <morrildl> It's also probably worth noting that we don't know how well UDP is going to be supported on actual real-world carrier networks
Dec 19 01:12:52 <morrildl> obviously the code should still work, but you should also probably consider using TCP if you can since it will probably be better supported
Dec 19 01:14:03 <jerkface03> well the major carrier here supports UDP communication on standard data packages
Dec 19 01:14:11 <cybereagle> morrildl, re NIO, would you say it'd be ok for me to continue down the nio road while waiting for the next sdk? i mean assuming i can manually patch it to work on my emulator that is
Dec 19 01:14:29 <jerkface03> i'm fairly certain cingular at&t does aswell, since i did work for a company that hammered their network alot
Dec 19 01:15:16 <jerkface03> in anycase, is there anywhere i can go to submit a bugreport? or does telling you take care of that matter?
Dec 19 01:15:32 <morrildl> jerkface03: I entered a bug in the internal system we used
Dec 19 01:15:46 <morrildl> we're trying to come up with a way to sync the internal system with an external system
Dec 19 01:15:53 <jerkface03> ahh k, thank you.
Dec 19 01:15:58 <jerkface03> hopefully it'll be fixed soon :)
Dec 19 01:16:07 <cybereagle> as far as the udp thing goes, i believe that no networking channels are implemented in the apache.harmony libraries in the current sdk
Dec 19 01:16:09 <jerkface03> and i can go ahead and work on my submission
Dec 19 01:16:10 <morrildl> cybereagle: if it's included in the JARs, it should work
Dec 19 01:16:14 <cybereagle> which is the same problme i'm having with SocketChannel
Dec 19 01:16:18 <jerkface03> so far i've only been able to test my code with J2SE :)
Dec 19 01:16:33 <morrildl> cybereagle: that sounds consistent with what jerkface03 reported :)
Dec 19 01:17:02 <cybereagle> well, as long as its gonna be in a later release, i can load up some newer harmony libs locally (in theory)
Dec 19 01:17:05 <cybereagle> so thats cool :)
Dec 19 01:17:28 <jerkface03> cybereagle: if you end up patching it, don't hesitate to drop me a line :X
Dec 19 01:17:39 <cybereagle> heh will do
Dec 19 01:22:57 <jerkface03> morrildl: 1 more thing to ask. Do you have any idea when bt support will be added into the SDK? and do you know if it'll support communicating via strictly the l2cap layer?
Dec 19 02:04:01 <dragor43> Hmm, will Android applications have the capabilities of using jar files not part of the Android SDK?  Like say you wanted to use an Apache commons project or something like that... doesn't seem to be a problem in the toy app... but how will they do it on the actual phone?
Dec 19 02:04:22 <dragor43> You'd need to package the jar file into the apk file and I don't think that's part of the build process...
Dec 19 02:08:56 <cybereagle> you could put it in your apps resources to get it in the apk file
Dec 19 02:09:30 <cybereagle> but i dunno how easy it'd be to access it to run from it give the file permissions it'd have
Dec 19 02:14:12 <dragor43> yeah, haven't seen it mentioned by Google anywhere in the docs, but I haven't really looked.  Unless it's a hardware or architectural impossibility, I find it hard to believe Google won't allow some way of using external jar libraries.
Dec 19 02:14:24 <dragor43> That's a big advantage to using Java. hmm we'll see.
Dec 19 02:28:05 <cybereagle> well you can load them on to the emulator using adb push
Dec 19 02:28:43 <cybereagle> i dunno how simple it'd be on a real device
Dec 19 02:36:38 <NumBeast> there'll probably be a usb port you can interface to on the real device
Dec 19 02:36:54 <NumBeast> so you can do an adb push, with restrictions
Dec 19 02:37:02 <NumBeast> that way no scripts are broken
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 19 02:59:57 2007