**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 28 02:59:56 2007
Dec 28 03:28:30 <jasta> hmm, that is interesting
Dec 28 03:28:58 <jasta> i have my vnc server open on a public port with no authentication an di came back to find the web browser was open and someone was searching for things like %systemroot%\system32\cmd.exe
Dec 28 03:29:03 <jasta> and stuff
Dec 28 03:29:45 <jasta> but its android hehe
Dec 28 05:01:23 <jasta> in case anyone is curious btw: xvncviewer jasta.dyndns.org
Dec 28 06:00:43 <jasta> grrrr, what the hell are the keycodes for escape and page up!?
Dec 28 06:00:57 <jasta> compiled dumpkeys for the emulator and it's not helping.  it's telling me that i had the scancodes correct.
Dec 28 06:29:30 <jasta> hmm, F1 also seems to open the menu.  we'll use that.
Dec 28 06:31:06 <jasta> hmm, escape seems to actually do soemthing here
Dec 28 06:32:06 <jasta> hehe sweet, i exploded the phone app.
Dec 28 06:32:27 <billmeltsner> woo!
Dec 28 06:32:56 <jasta> i think the escape sequence (normally keycode 1) is actually the green phone button?
Dec 28 06:35:21 <jasta> no, that cant be right.
Dec 28 06:36:27 <jasta> this is totally bizarre.  if you send keycode 1 while the menu is open, it seems to choose the first menu option, regardless of what it is.
Dec 28 06:36:36 <jasta> i just tested it in 3 different apps
Dec 28 06:37:39 <billmeltsner> :\
Dec 28 06:40:01 <jasta> and regardless of the selected item
Dec 28 06:40:03 <jasta> it's so strangte
Dec 28 06:40:04 <jasta> strange*
Dec 28 06:49:47 <jasta> i'm at a loss, completely.  i can't find the keycode for escape.
Dec 28 06:49:59 <billmeltsner> Escape in what sense?
Dec 28 06:50:31 <jasta> escape from qemu's point-of-view.  i think the android kernel has a special "Back" keycode, and i can't figure out what it is.
Dec 28 06:51:37 <jasta> btw, android looks *gorgeous* on a real handset :)
Dec 28 06:51:48 <billmeltsner> I wish I could see it :)
Dec 28 06:51:59 <jasta> i honestly get sad when i close the vnc viewer and have to go back to windows mobile :)
Dec 28 06:52:06 <billmeltsner> So far I like the changes they've made to the SDK
Dec 28 06:52:13 <billmeltsner> Except the switch to the keyboardless phone
Dec 28 06:52:16 <billmeltsner> That's annoying
Dec 28 06:52:17 <jasta> let me snap some photos with my girlfriends camera phone actually
Dec 28 06:52:28 <billmeltsner> Because I have to retool my code to not use a keyboard
Dec 28 06:56:51 <jasta> i'm having a really hard time getting a good picture of this thing
Dec 28 06:57:34 <billmeltsner> It's cool
Dec 28 06:58:16 <jasta> i dont know why tho
Dec 28 06:58:21 <jasta> all the pictures turn out really blurry
Dec 28 07:00:57 <jasta> do you have a windows mobile handset?
Dec 28 07:01:04 <billmeltsner> nope.
Dec 28 07:01:11 <jasta> well, if you had, i could show you :)
Dec 28 07:01:22 <jasta> i've been doing most of my testing over the cell phone's data connection, actually
Dec 28 07:01:26 <jasta> not tethering it with a cable :)
Dec 28 07:01:39 <jasta> works just fine like that, actually
Dec 28 07:01:43 <billmeltsner> Impressive.
Dec 28 07:01:53 <jasta> i mean, it's slow, for usre.
Dec 28 07:01:54 <jasta> sure*
Dec 28 07:02:06 <jasta> but its kinda slow even when you tether it, so...
Dec 28 07:02:25 * benley has a winmo handset
Dec 28 07:02:26 <jasta> but i can improve things a lot by fixing the hextile encoding to understand that stupid checkered background pattern
Dec 28 07:02:29 <benley> (and I hate it)
Dec 28 07:02:37 <jasta> benley: 320x240 landscape?
Dec 28 07:02:45 <benley> yeah.
Dec 28 07:03:00 <jasta> download the VNC viewer at dotnetvnc.sf.net
Dec 28 07:03:35 <jasta> it's just an exe you have to toss onto your phone
Dec 28 07:05:41 * benley does so
Dec 28 07:05:54 <billmeltsner> Don't do it! It's a trap!
Dec 28 07:06:01 <billmeltsner> </ackbar>
Dec 28 07:06:47 <jasta> benley: got it running?
Dec 28 07:07:19 <benley> I'm foolishly trying to download it with IE on the device, so not yet
Dec 28 07:07:34 <jasta> yeah, i used opera and eventually got it by renaming it as a zip file
Dec 28 07:07:40 <jasta> then renaming it back in the file manager
Dec 28 07:07:50 <jasta> i hate downloading arbitrary files to windows mobile :(
Dec 28 07:07:58 <benley> ok, got it now.
Dec 28 07:08:28 <jasta> ok, connect it to jasta.dyndns.org for the server, but make sure you go to options -> display and select Full Screen and Force 16-bit.
Dec 28 07:09:07 <jasta> to use it, press the "*" key and then use the arrows, dpad, etc.
Dec 28 07:09:15 <jasta> there is a little white box that appears which is sort of like "keyboard mode"
Dec 28 07:09:19 <benley> ha, that rules
Dec 28 07:09:38 <jasta> the menu can be opened with the white box opened and pressing the left-most soft key
Dec 28 07:09:55 <jasta> it's slow as hell to update the screne, of course, but you're over the internet so...
Dec 28 07:10:00 <benley> I can't find the goddamn * key on my phone
Dec 28 07:10:08 * benley turns on a light to better search the keyboard
Dec 28 07:10:28 <jasta> i opened the rss reader i wrote :P
Dec 28 07:11:14 <jasta> there is much optimization left to be done as well.  specifically, there is an encoding called hextile that's designed not to send much data for the "background" color.
Dec 28 07:11:26 <benley> this is slow as hell (I'm going over 1xrtt...)
Dec 28 07:11:31 <jasta> but the background in android is a checkered pattern, and so that encoding actually ends up being less efficient than even raw encoding.
Dec 28 07:11:57 <jasta> benley: yeah, well, what did you expect? :)
Dec 28 07:12:12 <jasta> i mean, it's a bit better on a good internet connection, or even hard-wired to the host running the vnc server...
Dec 28 07:12:22 <jasta> but really, i need to improve the hextile encoding a lot to make it truly efficient.
Dec 28 07:12:25 <jasta> which is up next.
Dec 28 07:12:38 <jasta> and i gotta figure out how to make the fuckin back button work
Dec 28 07:13:11 <jasta> but still, it's super cool seeing Android "running" on a handset, with all the right pixel proportions and everything.
Dec 28 07:13:23 <benley> yeah, definitely looks good
Dec 28 07:13:45 <jasta> the source code is a mess.  i'll clean it up some time over the weekend and release it.
Dec 28 07:14:00 <jasta> but it's actually only 500 lines of code.  i used libvncserver (cross-compiled for android and statically linked in)
Dec 28 07:15:19 <jasta> anyway, gotta run for a minute
Dec 28 07:15:34 <benley> I am impressed. htf do I quit this vncviewer app?
Dec 28 07:15:41 <jasta> hold the right soft menu key
Dec 28 07:15:58 <jasta> should take it out of full screen mode
Dec 28 07:16:02 <benley> ah
Dec 28 07:16:18 <jasta> i plan to hack the vnc viewer a bit (it's open source, after all) to better facilitate this type of insanity.
Dec 28 07:16:31 <jasta> like disabling the mouse altogether and some other stuff
Dec 28 07:17:12 <jasta> benley: the source to the rss reader is already available btw, http://android-rss.googlecode.com
Dec 28 07:17:17 <jasta> i wrote that too :P
Dec 28 07:17:25 <benley> nice :)
Dec 28 07:47:09 <jasta> ok, time to hack the hextile encoding method now
Dec 28 07:59:42 <jerkface03> who are you talking to?
Dec 28 08:52:12 <jasta> billmeltsner: just confirmed my suspicion.  the checkered pattern background causes the hextile coding to actually be *less* efficient than raw, both size wise and computationally.
Dec 28 08:52:19 <billmeltsner> ouch.
Dec 28 08:52:34 <billmeltsner> good thing you're hacking it then :P
Dec 28 08:52:38 <jasta> not by much per byte, but i suspect the computational overhead is enormous.
Dec 28 08:52:49 <billmelt|zzz> night all
Dec 28 08:52:49 <jasta> it seems to be about 80% more bytes to transmit.
Dec 28 08:52:52 <jasta> night
Dec 28 09:03:45 <Lede> why hextiles anyway
Dec 28 09:03:56 <Lede> jasta
Dec 28 09:05:59 <jasta> because the hextile encoding is normally exceptionally efficient when there is a predictable background pattern
Dec 28 09:06:50 <jasta> the encoding allows you to specify a background pixel, then draw on top of it, so you don't transmit pixel data for all the area that the background is found.  the ideal case is when there is a 16x16 region of only one color, where you can encode that region in only 2 bytes.
Dec 28 09:06:56 <jasta> well, 3.
Dec 28 09:32:07 <jasta> actually, that is much better now.
Dec 28 09:32:13 <jasta> i just sort of hacked it by fudging the checkered pixels.
Dec 28 10:05:35 <jasta> i'll commit it somewhere...
Dec 28 10:06:20 <novelo> good moring
Dec 28 10:06:28 <jasta> morning
Dec 28 10:06:37 <Yeggstry> lo
Dec 28 10:08:21 <novelo> what is the shortest way to create a new view on a buttonclick... iam reading and reading but i think the docs has changed in hindi... i dont get it. i want just open a new view on a buttonclick ...
Dec 28 10:10:04 <jasta> a new activity?
Dec 28 10:10:44 <jasta> activity's are like windows, presented to the user.  views are substrate components that together make an activity.
Dec 28 10:11:00 <jasta> to create a new activity, moving the user to a new window in a sense, you use the Intent facility.
Dec 28 10:11:16 <jasta> there are API demos of this all over.  search for the startActivity method.
Dec 28 10:11:33 <jasta> also see the finish method if you wish to remove your current activity from the stack.
Dec 28 10:13:12 <novelo> ok ill look for it ty
Dec 28 10:13:33 <novelo> sorry i mean thank you
Dec 28 11:43:48 <rwhitby> I want this as my next phone: http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/17/android-prototype-lets-hope-looks-can-be-deceiving/
Dec 28 11:48:38 <jasta> rwhitby: are you serious?
Dec 28 11:48:53 <rwhitby> yep - that's the form factor I like.
Dec 28 11:49:11 <rwhitby> treo650 running android or openmoko :-)
Dec 28 11:49:36 <jasta> well, whateve r:)
Dec 28 11:49:52 <jasta> i should really get to bed...just finished committing this vnc server code
Dec 28 11:54:20 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android-vnc/downloads/list
Dec 28 11:54:33 <jasta> the code is there too, but it's a pain to build everything.
Dec 28 12:09:27 <jasta> i posted some documentation:
Dec 28 12:09:29 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android-vnc/
Dec 28 12:12:21 <cutmasta> morning
Dec 28 12:12:22 <cutmasta> :)
Dec 28 12:12:39 <jasta> morning.
Dec 28 12:18:20 * jasta wanders off to bed
Dec 28 12:18:24 <jasta> enjoy the VNC server folks ;P
Dec 28 12:21:36 <betim--> hello, it's probably silly question but... installing android on iphone isn't available?
Dec 28 12:23:06 <Stephmw> nope, and unlikely to be
Dec 28 12:43:13 <betim--> Stephmw: is there any list of devices that supports android
Dec 28 12:43:33 <betim--> or which is that device with touch screen on demo video?
Dec 28 13:10:24 <tulcod> betim--: prototype, I don't think android will run on anything else
Dec 28 13:10:35 <tulcod> betim--: see, the kernel is configured pretty tightly
Dec 28 13:10:50 <tulcod> betim--: if you just wanna play around with it, get the SDK and launch the emulator
Dec 28 13:24:55 <tulcod> argh, where is some xml reference?
Dec 28 13:25:08 <tulcod> I mean, there's so few documentation
Dec 28 13:25:09 <swetland> android is designed to run on pretty much anything that can provide a 2.6.23 kernel and appropriate drivers
Dec 28 13:25:24 <swetland> the kernel shipped with the emulator targets only the emulator though
Dec 28 13:33:19 <tulcod> ARGH
Dec 28 13:33:34 <tulcod> so if there's no xml documentation, can I at least get sources of the app checking xml files?
Dec 28 13:33:45 <tulcod> cause I have no idea about the way I should do things
Dec 28 13:33:57 <cybereagle> jasta got a vnc thing going on so you can "see" it on another phone, its not actually running on any that i know of yet though (except googles internal prototype)
Dec 28 13:35:31 <cybereagle> last time i looked theres no comprehensive xml docs, but there is a bit of it around http://code.google.com/android/devel/bblocks-manifest.html
Dec 28 13:35:42 <cybereagle> and mixed in woth other docs
Dec 28 13:37:56 <tulcod> nothing about the layout file?
Dec 28 13:38:46 <cybereagle> there's little boxes with xml attributes under sections of the normal java docs, no easy way to find it, and it doesnt tell you everything you need
Dec 28 13:39:07 <cybereagle> i had to guess some things and wait for the plugin in eclipse to stop complaining lol
Dec 28 13:40:09 <tulcod> cybereagle: same here lol
Dec 28 13:40:39 <tulcod> cybereagle: hey, don't I know you from... hak.5?
Dec 28 13:40:47 <cybereagle> yeah hehe
Dec 28 13:41:08 <tulcod> lol, k
Dec 28 13:41:22 <goundy> Hi all
Dec 28 13:41:27 <tulcod> kinda creepy, I keep being followed by hak5 guys on freenode :p
Dec 28 13:41:30 <tulcod> hi goundy
Dec 28 13:41:44 <goundy> I gotta a question. I want to know if Androis is compatible with a HTC s300+ PDA ?
Dec 28 13:41:47 <goundy> Thanks :)
Dec 28 13:43:00 <tulcod> goundy: well, android is written to run on pretty much any platform, but it'll probably be much harder than it sounds
Dec 28 13:43:14 <tulcod> goundy: but it's based on linux, and linux pretty much runs on a microwave
Dec 28 13:43:28 <goundy> hum okay I see
Dec 28 13:43:56 <goundy> tulcod the problem is that am scared ! If i try to put it in my pda I could lose my old system
Dec 28 13:43:59 <cybereagle> tulcod, if you think thats creepy, mubix is in almost every irc chan on every net i go to lol
Dec 28 13:44:04 <tulcod> goundy: yeah
Dec 28 13:44:12 <tulcod> cybereagle: lol :p
Dec 28 13:44:46 <tulcod> cybereagle: unless he uses other nicks on freenode, I don't think I've ever seen him. maybe in #eeepc
Dec 28 13:44:52 <goundy> tulcod what do you advise me ?
Dec 28 13:45:05 <tulcod> goundy: don't do it when you're not sure
Dec 28 13:45:13 <tulcod> goundy: ... until a guide appears ;)
Dec 28 13:45:25 <goundy> tulcod should I contact google to get exact informations so?
Dec 28 13:45:30 <goundy> Okay
Dec 28 13:45:33 <goundy> Thanks dude
Dec 28 13:46:53 <cybereagle> tulcod, on freenode he's sometimes in #pauldotcom
Dec 28 13:47:18 <novelo> ok folk... iam reading and reading but i dont get it how to open a new aktivity. i only want to push a button and open a view. so does someone can send me a link or explain me how i can easly do this!
Dec 28 13:47:26 <tulcod> cybereagle: well, I'm not a pauldotcom fanboy, so... that could make a difference ;p
Dec 28 13:47:42 <tulcod> novelo: you want to start your hello world app?
Dec 28 13:48:28 <novelo> lol
Dec 28 13:48:35 <novelo> ok i have done this
Dec 28 13:48:56 <novelo> i have done a onclicklistener which works fine
Dec 28 13:49:42 <novelo> i only get it how i works with these intent stuff
Dec 28 13:51:37 <novelo> oh sorry .. i dont get it
Dec 28 14:51:35 <tulcod> can I apply two text styles to two different pieces of text in one textview?
Dec 28 14:55:27 <haavi> there's info about that in the android faq
Dec 28 14:55:55 <haavi> http://code.google.com/android/kb/commontasks.html#selectingtext
Dec 28 15:13:08 <tulcod> haavi: woot, that's it, thx!
Dec 28 22:51:57 * Saxgod finds that he's been online for a month or so.
Dec 28 22:58:43 <tulcod> Saxgod: that means your box has an uptime of at least a month ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 29 02:59:56 2007