**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 02 02:59:57 2008 Jan 02 04:00:08 is this the google mobile platform android? Jan 02 04:00:12 or another project? Jan 02 04:03:27 this is google mobile Jan 02 04:09:47 skel: did you have a question? Jan 02 04:10:06 oh no sorry was just lurking :) Jan 02 04:11:02 just excited to be a consumer of it when its released and was curious to see what if anything is going on Jan 02 04:11:25 quite a lot, but the activity of this channel may not be the best indicator. Jan 02 04:11:57 better a mailing list or such to follow? Jan 02 04:12:42 the google groups are perhaps the most active. there are also other news sites specifically covering Android. Jan 02 04:14:43 cool, I'm familiar with groups. I'll check that out :) Jan 02 04:19:36 can you have two ListView's in the same Activity that operate independently? Jan 02 04:20:04 well, perhaps a better question is: do you want to? Jan 02 04:20:04 Yep Jan 02 04:20:19 might not be a very intuitive interface, especially for those without touchscreens. Jan 02 04:21:35 well, in my case it's actually a GridView and a ListView in the same activity Jan 02 04:22:11 was trying to make a menu-bar type of thing in the GridView that can flip to other activities Jan 02 04:34:51 hmm, maybe i should look at tablelayout for my card game Jan 02 04:35:31 how's solitaire coming along? Jan 02 04:38:24 * absentia needs to get back to work on projects. Jan 02 04:38:25 :-/ Jan 02 04:39:05 jasonlee: ok, i'm generalizing the engine so that i can write a ton of card game rules into the application with minimal effort Jan 02 04:42:38 slow night Jan 02 04:44:27 absentia: a lot of people not feeling too well today ;) Jan 02 04:44:51 I didn't feel too well yesterday... my wife bought a nice bottle of champage, and when we opened it.. she had only a sip Jan 02 04:44:56 and I had a glass. Jan 02 04:45:03 I actually felt better AFTER drinking ... Jan 02 08:22:01 'morning dudes Jan 02 08:22:43 morning. Jan 02 11:22:11 hello, is this channel for the google android embedded system ? Jan 02 11:45:23 mnabil: yes Jan 02 11:46:03 rwhitby: cool Jan 02 16:04:29 sigh. already had like 3 major problems this morning and it's only 8am. Jan 02 16:04:33 this is gonna be the worst day ever :( Jan 02 16:05:10 2008 welcomes you Jan 02 16:05:23 haha Jan 02 16:06:59 i'm curious, btw, to plot the failure rate of machines in this office against various criteria such as sex and age. Jan 02 16:07:21 lol that would be interesting for sure Jan 02 16:07:35 because i'm finding that middle-aged women are somehow sadistically killing their PCs. Jan 02 16:08:40 i don't know if they're generally threatened by the sophistication, efficiency, and logical consistency of their systems, or if it's something more specific. but i definitely believe there is sabotage at work. Jan 02 16:09:06 it'll be something they're doing. clicking banner ads indiscriminately or something Jan 02 16:09:20 * Zer0Her0 sighs Jan 02 16:09:26 nothing like sexism :P Jan 02 16:09:32 i think the particular instance this morning was caused by our accountant leaving her under-the-desk space heater on since Dec 22nd. Jan 02 16:09:45 eep! Jan 02 16:09:55 she claimed the machine wouldn't boot, and when i felt it, it literally was so warm it hurt. Jan 02 16:10:14 if i ever have to work with non-techies i think i'll go insane Jan 02 16:10:42 which means on balance i'm likely to go insane at some point in my life... lol Jan 02 16:10:55 * jasta is recalling all the machines he's had to repair in the last year. i'm certain they have all been used primarily by middle-aged women in our office. hmm. Jan 02 16:11:22 well the question comes up what percentage of the office is middle-aged women Jan 02 16:11:30 yeha i was about to say Jan 02 16:11:34 if it's over 50% then that might be your answer ;) Jan 02 16:11:51 * absentia made $.88 on banner ads this past holiday season! Jan 02 16:11:52 it sounds like the general "i work with computers but dont know wtf i'm doing" syndrome, rather than an age-sex thing per say Jan 02 16:11:55 * absentia is rich[er] Jan 02 16:11:59 i am certain it is less than 50%, but still i wonder if you are correct. Jan 02 16:12:32 cybereagle: actually, i'm going through my head counting all the people who have space heaters under their desks. Jan 02 16:12:35 maybe theres a greater proportion of women in non-IT positions Jan 02 16:12:37 they're all women :) Jan 02 16:12:57 maybe i will ban the use of space heaters as part of our corporate IT policy Jan 02 16:13:06 don't make it IT policy Jan 02 16:13:08 maybe thats it then. some biological thing that makes women feel the cold, leading to overheated pc's. its a total stretch of the imagination, but its a fun thought lol Jan 02 16:13:10 make it Facilities policy Jan 02 16:13:20 "the floor heaters blow the circuit breakers and are violation of fire code" Jan 02 16:13:29 that way they won't complain to the IT folks about it :) Jan 02 16:13:33 genius. i'm drafting a memo now. Jan 02 16:13:51 IT is all about creative laziness. Jan 02 16:14:49 this is bar none my least favorite activity and i am having to do it on my first day back from holiday vacation. i'm in such a terrible mood now :) Jan 02 16:15:28 i'm waiting for the machine to cool off right now so that i can actually comfortably work on it. no joke, it feels like it just came out of an oven Jan 02 16:15:42 i'm surprised she didn't catch the building on fire. Jan 02 16:15:45 must be a 12" powerbook :) Jan 02 16:16:44 the good news is that i got a christmas present while i was on vacation. got our new quad core server downstairs with a 2tB RAID6 array :) Jan 02 16:20:50 jasta: raid SIX? Jan 02 16:20:56 that's a new one to me Jan 02 16:21:02 it is? Jan 02 16:21:11 no, it existed for years already Jan 02 16:21:13 RAID 5 I get, 3 data + parity Jan 02 16:21:19 it's just one of those obscure raid setups Jan 02 16:21:27 yeah, it's the obscure part that's got me :) Jan 02 16:21:30 it's not that obscure Jan 02 16:21:36 it's not that obscure. Jan 02 16:21:38 is it one of the "two-layer" setups, like "RAID 01"? Jan 02 16:21:43 benley: relative to raid 5, 1 and 0 ;) Jan 02 16:21:49 solaris has it as "raidz2" Jan 02 16:22:03 morrildl: nah it's just raid 5 with an extra set of parity Jan 02 16:22:10 it's just a way to provide fault tolerances greater than single drive failures. Jan 02 16:22:53 netapp does somthing similar, only it's more like raid 4 with two parity disks Jan 02 16:23:02 i set it up that way because it has many hard disks in the machine. i don't yet trust the 700GB drives :) Jan 02 16:23:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RAID_6.svg Jan 02 16:24:19 jasta: how come? are they unstable? Jan 02 16:25:11 superlarge disks tend to fail Jan 02 16:25:49 i heard an explanation once, but it was over my hardware ignorant level lol Jan 02 16:26:02 jasta: very very wise :) Jan 02 16:26:14 * morrildl had 2 SATA drives, same make/model, running software RAID 1 on Linux Jan 02 16:26:21 About 14 months in, 1 failed Jan 02 16:26:28 I got a replacement for it in warranty Jan 02 16:26:35 2 months later, the OTHER one died Jan 02 16:26:47 I replaced the 2nd with a different make/model :) Jan 02 16:27:02 yah Jan 02 16:27:07 you shld use DIFFERENT disks Jan 02 16:27:16 since they tend t fail after different amounts of time Jan 02 16:28:46 tulcod: i have just heard things... it is probably unjustified paranoia, but still. Jan 02 16:28:58 jasta: heh, I got it :p Jan 02 16:29:11 jasta: I don't think it's unreasonable though Jan 02 16:29:36 a few of my buddies work for a scalable, distributed storage company and i heard them talking once about critical firmware bugs in some WD *AND* Seagate 700GB drives that held up their latest release. Jan 02 16:29:56 freaked me out ;P Jan 02 16:30:13 so, i generally prefer RAID6 with a larger number of smaller disks to achieve the same effect. Jan 02 16:32:38 heh Jan 02 16:32:45 jasta: but... you work for...? Jan 02 16:32:53 no one special. Jan 02 16:33:00 I'm just interested :) Jan 02 16:33:16 okay :) Jan 02 16:34:17 you know, this has me thinking that i should upgrade my array at home. Jan 02 16:34:22 1.2tB just isn't what it used to be. Jan 02 16:34:49 :p Jan 02 16:34:53 I have 250GB here Jan 02 16:35:00 and I've partitioned 80GB of it Jan 02 16:35:09 and I'm using approximately 50% of those 80GB Jan 02 16:35:42 hmm, i can't even imagine using that little space. maybe i'm just a pack rat. Jan 02 16:36:28 jasta: or maybe I'm just not enjoying my internet connection a lot ;) Jan 02 16:36:47 for anyone curious though, my Android developer challenge project is going to be well suited for folks like me ;) Jan 02 16:37:22 lol, remote raid setup :p Jan 02 16:37:25 so you're porting qfs to android? :) Jan 02 16:37:40 i am trying to create a media system in which data can be efficiently managed and synchronized via your handset. Jan 02 16:37:50 sync sync sync sync sync Jan 02 16:38:01 * benley *heart* sync solutions Jan 02 16:38:34 i would call it more than synchronization though. Jan 02 16:39:09 you'll get extra props from me if it can sync with itunes :) Jan 02 16:39:19 i intend for the handset to more-or-less represent a floating subset of your (and others) media collection(s). Jan 02 16:39:19 unless that's the wrong scope, of course Jan 02 16:39:59 jasta: sounds cool Jan 02 16:39:59 music is only one part of it, although for the developer challenge i will be focusing primarily in that area. Jan 02 16:40:15 i intend, however, to generalize this system such that any media is supported by the underlying system. Jan 02 16:40:37 but to take advantage, an appropriate application layer would need to be developed. Jan 02 16:40:55 movies and pictures i'd honestly like for someone else to tackle, building off my work. Jan 02 16:41:53 i also had the thought to let people create shared media libraries so you could, for example, sync with your friends collections as well. Jan 02 16:42:47 this project is mostly focused at countries with sensible mobile data pricing, of course. Jan 02 16:43:14 fortunately, that is the US :) Jan 02 16:43:23 woot @ europe Jan 02 16:44:30 i fully intend for this project to be open, as well. Jan 02 16:44:52 closed source mobile software is so lame. Jan 02 16:44:57 ahh cool Jan 02 16:45:10 so like a sort of LRU cache of your MP3 collection Jan 02 16:45:16 but i hope that google doesn't do something stupid like make it hard for open source projects to compete in the dev challenge. Jan 02 16:45:20 you could do some neat things with the UI Jan 02 16:45:45 jasta: nope, the open-ness (or not) of an application has no bearing on the challenge Jan 02 16:45:48 morrildl: yes, but substantially more generalized and appropriately related to the small form factor and relative slow performance of a mobile handset. Jan 02 16:45:50 jasta: that would seem rather bizarre Jan 02 16:45:59 open source projects will have equal consideration to closed-source ones Jan 02 16:46:14 (and yeah, that would definitely be stupid) Jan 02 16:46:35 brb Jan 02 16:46:54 jasta: I have often wanted that app Jan 02 16:47:30 my CD collection is larger than I can fit on an iPod, so I've often wanted to be able to say "copy these 5 albums to my MP3 player, as well as others 'similar' to them" Jan 02 16:47:52 something like, "I get neurotic on planes, so please fill up my iPod with soothing music" Jan 02 16:49:12 morrildl: yes, my intended usage came from going on long road trips, loading up my ipod, only to be disappointed by certain albums or songs i didn't think of. Jan 02 16:49:44 especially since i've also always noticed that my cell phone had full 3G data service on nearly every major interstate :) Jan 02 16:51:59 morrildl: the most important piece of this system is that synchronizing meta data will be paramount over synching real data, especially detecting changes and presenting them meaningfully. i want there to be a lot of contextual information to make management as intelligent as possible. Jan 02 16:52:23 my old phone seems to have died...sigh... I was hoping to hold out and get something with Android on it Jan 02 16:52:56 morrildl: but, recently, i've been doing a lot of camping and fun winter stuff and have wanted pictures and videos i took from the trips to show at parties and things like that Jan 02 16:53:53 but i'm far too absent minded to do that sort of thing ahead of time. Jan 02 16:54:32 jasta: the first actual devices will have Picasa integration, if you use that. (You'll be able to tell it to auto-upload camera photos to your Picasa account, and I believe there is intended to be an on-phone client too, although that's still tentative I think) Jan 02 16:54:40 of course that doesn't help if you don't use Picasa :) Jan 02 16:54:42 it would be cool to let you visualize your media like that with support from the server. that is, the server could thumbnail, organize stills, etc, and submit the smallest footprint data to the phone for preview. Jan 02 16:55:01 I expect that someone will bust out with a flickr client too though Jan 02 16:55:27 jasta: yeah that's really the larger issue, you're right Jan 02 16:55:31 yeah, but the problem with those services is that they do not combine video. Jan 02 16:55:44 time to stop treating images and videos and audio as separate stovepipes Jan 02 16:56:16 i prefer to think of media in its most general context always. Jan 02 16:56:36 and as you might imagine, i have a *LOT* of it ;0 Jan 02 16:59:10 for a little background, i wrote Gnapster and giFT. i am an absolute klepto ;) Jan 02 17:23:13 * Dralspire giggles Jan 02 17:30:07 hmm, why can't i find any good free freecell games for windows mobile. ugh. Jan 02 17:35:18 jasta: looking for inspiration? Jan 02 17:35:42 no, i just like the game and i want to play it Jan 02 17:35:59 oh ok.. Jan 02 17:40:07 hm, shouldnt there be a submission form on the google android page today/ Jan 02 17:40:10 ? Jan 02 17:40:38 good point Jan 02 17:41:30 i thought it was jan 3? Jan 02 17:42:22 it ends on march 3 Jan 02 17:43:07 i also expected m3-rc39 to be released today Jan 02 17:45:09 Ahh yes, well then this will be an interesting day for Google. Jan 02 17:50:21 * jasta looks over the challenge timeline Jan 02 17:50:31 wow, this is much more crunched than i realized. i'd better hurry up and get started. Jan 02 17:51:14 actually, i'm confused too. what is required for the initial $25K award? how much of the application is necessary? Jan 02 17:51:46 no idea Jan 02 17:52:22 i thought that the first challenge ended some time in august or something. yikes ;) Jan 02 17:54:24 * Lede pokes morrildl Jan 02 17:59:49 Lede: what was m3-rc39 supposed to contain? Jan 02 18:00:16 no idea, the current online documentation is versioned "m3-rc39" Jan 02 18:00:35 you can see the version on the bottom right of any reference page Jan 02 18:01:47 really? when did that appear? Jan 02 18:02:35 last week? Jan 02 18:02:41 i don't remember Jan 02 18:03:30 Lede: the docs get updated when we push, and sometimes we push new docs to correct docs bugs Jan 02 18:03:44 so sometimes the docs have a later version than the most recent actual SDK Jan 02 18:04:52 morrildl: ok, i believe you (a little bit) Jan 02 18:05:08 :p Jan 02 18:05:31 hmm. Jan 02 18:05:49 jasta: the Challenge judging will be based on what you submit. So partially-complete submissions will not be penalized for being partially complete, but we will judge on what we actually get Jan 02 18:05:57 i only ever read the local docs in the SDK. the online site is really slow for some reason Jan 02 18:06:10 Lede: only a little bit? Jan 02 18:06:21 morrildl: that's sort of broad, don't you think? Jan 02 18:06:39 jasta: well that's probably intentional, but what do you mean? :) Jan 02 18:06:47 i mean, isn't the initial $25K to fund development? so, aren't you assuming that all submissions awarded that prize need more development? Jan 02 18:07:10 morrildl: how would you filter out vaporware ideas and the likes Jan 02 18:07:16 jasta: Absolutely. I'm just saying that your partially-completed app is not going to be penalized or compared negatively with apps that have more polish or whatever Jan 02 18:08:01 For instance, a project that has a really promising idea but doesn't yet have a flashy UI will be competitive with really nice UIs that don't domuch Jan 02 18:08:09 that kind of thing Jan 02 18:08:43 Lede: that's where the "judged on what you submit" comes in :) Jan 02 18:08:54 well i already know of several people doing the exact same idea as me, but i have other more far-out ideas i might try after i get to know android a little more Jan 02 18:09:41 cybereagle: The submission form will include the ability to submit a README file or whatever you like along with your app, so you can also outline future plans in that Jan 02 18:10:10 What I'd suggest is try and get a couple of the far-out ideas implemented, and include an outline for what you'd like to ultimately achieve Jan 02 18:10:45 yeah, thats what i was aiming for. course, i might not achieve it, but still :P Jan 02 18:16:51 morrildl: Will the winning submissions be published? Jan 02 18:17:16 That is, will the projects be called out when awards are given? Jan 02 18:18:40 isn't that the whole point of the challenge Jan 02 18:18:51 to show what the platform can do Jan 02 18:19:18 jasta: the plan is to, yes Jan 02 18:47:43 hi all Jan 02 19:19:51 http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/2fd5bf12b9374d3f Jan 02 19:19:54 hello, happy new year. Say, does anyone have any sample code for declaring and instantiating an AnimationListener? Jan 02 19:19:54 heh Jan 02 19:20:07 hi straz Jan 02 19:20:11 Hello Lede Jan 02 19:21:49 Lede: that thread doesn't open Jan 02 19:22:33 Zer0Her0: strange, do you get a error? maybe try refreshing the page Jan 02 19:22:52 I get " The archive for this group is currently unavailable. Jan 02 19:22:53 We're sorry for the inconvenience. Please try again shortly. " Jan 02 19:22:59 yep exactly Jan 02 19:23:14 weird Jan 02 19:24:10 yep Jan 02 19:26:43 Zer0Her0: http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9208/screenshotbz0.jpg Jan 02 19:26:44 :) Jan 02 19:27:32 imageshack is blocked here at work :( Jan 02 19:27:39 awh! Jan 02 19:27:49 yea thanks state government. Jan 02 19:29:06 what about tinypic.com? Jan 02 19:29:37 http://i4.tinypic.com/72ldgjn.jpg Jan 02 19:30:06 if that doesnt work, it's just not meant to be seen .) Jan 02 19:30:41 nope haha, i fail :( Jan 02 19:31:04 i really hate the internet here sometimes Jan 02 19:31:07 Lede: try this one, http://rifers.org/paste/ Jan 02 19:31:14 Lede: pastebin with support for images Jan 02 19:31:35 Stephmw: i don't know if Zer0Her0 can use that website Jan 02 19:31:43 Zer0Her0: can you browse that? Jan 02 19:32:13 haha we don't have the web here only IRC Jan 02 19:32:18 yes Jan 02 19:32:20 that seems to work Jan 02 19:34:41 Zer0Her0: http://rifers.org/paste/content/paste/6298/image?key=android Jan 02 19:35:15 all this trouble for a lousy newsgroup post.. Jan 02 19:36:20 hehe Jan 02 19:36:50 if only friggin groups worked correctly Jan 02 19:36:51 cute Jan 02 19:41:48 yawn Jan 02 19:43:38 hey jasta Jan 02 19:43:46 right now on slashdot: "Sperm Could Power Nanobots" Jan 02 19:43:55 http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/02/1624252 Jan 02 19:45:55 * jasta ponders the android dev challenge Jan 02 19:46:08 * morrildl has pondered nothing else for several days Jan 02 19:46:36 is that because you're late uploading the submission forms? :) Jan 02 19:49:05 tulcod: but what would they use for female patients .. Jan 02 19:49:22 Lede: heh - the article is a bit confusing :p Jan 02 19:58:02 tulcod: it's not surprising how many score: 1 and 2 comments are found on that article. Jan 02 19:58:19 :p Jan 02 20:01:35 * jasta goes to lunch. Jan 02 20:01:42 hopefully when i get back, the dev challenge stuff will be posted Jan 02 21:17:27 nope, not yet. Jan 02 21:17:29 boo google, boo. Jan 02 21:53:12 it's still just after lunch in mountain view :-P Jan 02 21:53:18 * benley knows nothing, of course Jan 02 22:01:35 wow, google's really dropping the ball her e;) Jan 02 22:01:43 benley: it's 2pm, nearly the end of the work day Jan 02 22:01:58 :-P Jan 02 22:01:59 they are still chewing there lunch! Jan 02 22:02:03 and remember, us east coasters are nearly at the beginning of time. work day is ending on the east coast. Jan 02 22:02:15 err west coasters, i meant Jan 02 22:02:49 it's 11 PM here :) Jan 02 22:03:12 see. there's only 1 timezone behind ours, so the web site is gonna start lying to most of the world soon :) Jan 02 22:04:16 brb Jan 02 22:41:21 i'm anxious to get the challenge application and yet, i know i don't have anything to submit yet :) Jan 02 22:42:47 * morrildl is unhappy at the moment Jan 02 22:44:44 morrildl: stuff beyond your control? Jan 02 22:45:36 Stephmw: indeed Jan 02 22:45:40 jasta: same :) Jan 02 22:45:58 morrildl: anything you can tell us? Jan 02 22:50:52 I am working on the submission app Jan 02 22:51:22 morrildl: any news on the nio issue? Jan 02 22:58:09 jerkface03: yeah, it's gone to the guys who own the stuff Jan 02 22:59:25 he's working on it? Jan 02 22:59:48 maybe he should have spent less time on irc then :P Jan 02 23:06:20 morrildl: so you're actually working on the submission application? i figured they'd have some legalese guy do that. Jan 02 23:32:14 jasta: yup Jan 02 23:32:27 jasta: how do you know I'm NOT some legalese guy? ;) Jan 02 23:35:36 morrildl: because you seem reasonable? ;-) Jan 02 23:35:54 yes, that. Jan 02 23:36:22 * rwhitby assumed 'app' == web application Jan 02 23:37:38 rwhitby: yeah it is Jan 02 23:55:05 oh, i didn't assume that. Jan 03 00:28:32 wow, there are a lot of people on here who roll deep in the 518 Jan 03 00:28:54 well, at least 2 anyway :) Jan 03 00:33:23 so how does the challenge work? do i have to sign up to anything before i'm able to submit? Jan 03 01:13:32 what the hell, still no challenge documentation? Jan 03 02:54:10 hmm. ok, so, is google just going to silently miss this deadline? :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 03 02:59:56 2008