**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 10 02:59:57 2008
Jan 10 04:21:58 <jasonlee> anyone here a genious with ListActivity's?
Jan 10 04:23:34 <romainguy__> jasonlee: What do you want to know?
Jan 10 04:44:05 <jasta> finally home
Jan 10 04:49:33 <jasta> alright, time to work on my ADC project.  i'm happy that i finally understand services.
Jan 10 04:49:59 <jasta> this will be a nice way for me to divide my project into two separate apk packages.
Jan 10 07:58:48 <jasta> alright, got the ContentProvider all designed.
Jan 10 07:58:55 <jasta> next up is the Service
Jan 10 08:06:19 <jasta> android is friggin' sweet man :)
Jan 10 17:47:47 <davidw> hrm... I need to profile my code some
Jan 10 18:16:13 <codev> I'm trying to use AIDL with my aidl file and its saying couldn't find import for class
Jan 10 18:21:52 <codev> nevermind
Jan 10 18:47:44 <jasta> boo, my home computer crashed for some reason.  have to run irssi locally now.
Jan 10 19:01:38 <pandora--> jasta: lol ouch
Jan 10 19:01:49 <pandora--> always good to keep BitchX around for that reason :)
Jan 10 19:01:52 <pandora--> or irssi
Jan 10 19:18:52 <jasta> Ugh, GNOME is such a piece of crap.  Every time I give this thing a try it just gets in my way.
Jan 10 19:20:36 <benley> that's why I use windowmaker.
Jan 10 19:20:45 <benley> it sucks, but it's a simple sort of suck.
Jan 10 19:21:29 <codev> fluxbox here
Jan 10 19:24:48 <jasta> KDE is clearly superior.  I'm holding out until KDE4.
Jan 10 19:31:13 <romainguy> jasta: I always felt the contrary
Jan 10 19:32:00 <benley> kde seems superior, yet also infuriating
Jan 10 19:32:43 <romainguy> features-wise surely
Jan 10 19:32:49 <romainguy> but I never liked KDE visually
Jan 10 19:32:57 <romainguy> I always found it too busy and cluttered
Jan 10 19:33:02 <romainguy> no matter what theme I was using
Jan 10 19:40:30 <jasta> Yeah, I think GNOME is simpler and more aesthetically pleasing.
Jan 10 19:40:41 <jasta> But because of its simplicity, it is also useless.
Jan 10 19:40:53 <romainguy> Depends on what you want to do
Jan 10 19:40:56 <The_PHP_Jedi> CLI ftw :)
Jan 10 19:40:59 <jasta> They've solved the problem by ignoring it, and that is stupid.
Jan 10 19:41:01 <romainguy> but it's enough for what I need
Jan 10 19:41:16 <romainguy> (that said, Linux is not my main machine, that helps :)
Jan 10 19:41:33 <jasta> I just spent the better part of the hour figuring out how to make <Super>i and <Super>e invoke firefox and gnome-terminal, respectively.
Jan 10 19:41:55 <jasta> I had to fire up gconf-editor.  I felt like I was using Windows for crying out loud.
Jan 10 19:42:29 <jasta> Fortunately, things are getting better with Compiz.  Compiz offers a lot of important settings that Meta City ignores.
Jan 10 19:49:43 <codev> I think KDE is really ugly :-/
Jan 10 19:49:51 <codev> I do like QT over GTK though =)
Jan 10 20:28:10 <romainguy> QT is great
Jan 10 20:50:25 <davidw> romainguy, yeah?
Jan 10 20:50:49 <romainguy> davidw: ?
Jan 10 20:50:58 <davidw> "QT is great"
Jan 10 20:51:03 <romainguy> ah :))
Jan 10 20:51:17 <romainguy> Yes, QT is a very nice UI toolkit to work with as a developer
Jan 10 20:58:06 <davidw> I've never had occasion to use it.  The licensing thing scares me off
Jan 10 21:13:52 <Stephmw> davidw: it's really no more onerous than others... GPL is GPL is GPL ;)
Jan 10 21:14:10 <Stephmw> davidw: you just have the additional option of not having to use GPL
Jan 10 21:15:17 <davidw> it's a valid business model
Jan 10 21:15:28 * absentia loves Qt.
Jan 10 21:15:28 <davidw> just not one I'm really prepared to buy into
Jan 10 21:17:02 <davidw> truth be told though, I'm basically, after many years, finally at peace with the idea of using the web as the UI in most cases
Jan 10 21:17:27 * davidw wonders how that will play out on cell phones....
Jan 10 21:18:06 * Stephmw sends davidw a 'webpage' application weighing 2mb... GPRS charged at £0.20/100KB
Jan 10 21:18:19 <The_PHP_Jedi> hah
Jan 10 21:18:24 <davidw> Stephmw, that's 'now'.  Think it will stay the same?
Jan 10 21:18:36 <davidw> maybe, maybe not
Jan 10 21:18:47 <Stephmw> davidw: I think that operators have a solid monopoly... "pick up that soap, will ya?"
Jan 10 21:19:37 <davidw> I guess by working on Hecl I'm voting with my feet 'maybe not'
Jan 10 21:19:44 <davidw> it's kind of a scary bet though
Jan 10 21:20:06 <morrildl> the web as an apps platform has certain advantages
Jan 10 21:20:16 <morrildl> generally they are: a) easy to code, b) easy to deploy
Jan 10 21:20:19 <davidw> says the guy from google:-)
Jan 10 21:20:35 <morrildl> one big problem with mobile is that neither a) nor b) is true
Jan 10 21:20:54 <morrildl> You can summarize the entire point of Android as:  "We aim to make a) and b) true for mobile"
Jan 10 21:21:04 <morrildl> it's DIFFERENT from the web, it's true
Jan 10 21:21:10 <morrildl> but it should be just as easy
Jan 10 21:21:18 <morrildl> or at least, our goal is that it is
Jan 10 21:21:29 <morrildl> if a) and b) are true, the rest will follow :)
Jan 10 21:22:00 <davidw> I don't think it is as easy to code.  I mean, it's pretty good... better than j2me, but think what joe schmoe can do with PHP these days
Jan 10 21:22:15 <morrildl> davidw: yeah, and of course that's the tradeoff
Jan 10 21:22:18 <davidw> and think how many joe schmoes that can hack a bit of PHP or Ruby or whatever there are
Jan 10 21:22:31 <morrildl> it IS a little more complicated than JavaScript, but that's the tradeoff for also being more powerful
Jan 10 21:22:45 <davidw> I think the critical thing is the dominance of the operators, as per Stephmw's comment
Jan 10 21:23:21 <davidw> I'd put my money on 'worse is better' in most cases
Jan 10 21:23:46 <davidw> as a mobile user, it's very annoying to think that I'm being charged while I use an app
Jan 10 21:23:57 <davidw> that is what plays to android's advantage, IMO
Jan 10 21:24:10 <davidw> I think flat rates would change things
Jan 10 21:25:16 <davidw> but whether that will happen or not is certainly not something in my power to know
Jan 10 21:29:12 * davidw wonders if it's ever going to snow here
Jan 10 21:32:42 <Stephmw> meh. don't think we'll see snow this year
Jan 10 21:36:21 <davidw> Stephmw, I'm in the middle of the damn alps and it's not snowing:-/
Jan 10 21:36:47 <davidw> <homer>stuuupid alps</homer>
Jan 10 21:38:18 <Lede> <homer>Woohoo!</homer
Jan 10 21:40:54 <Stephmw> davidw: yah, last year's skiing was a close call too - thankfully I was at 3000m, on a glacier
Jan 10 21:41:50 <davidw> we have one of those about a half hour from here, too, but I don't actually ski.  I just want it to snow a bit:-)
Jan 10 22:17:11 * jasta yawns
Jan 10 22:17:55 <jasta> hey morrildl.
Jan 10 22:24:30 <jasta> morrildl: privmsg.
Jan 11 00:04:19 <morrildl> http://paulpapedesigns.com/Mii_Chocolate.html
Jan 11 00:26:24 <jasta> hehe
Jan 11 02:05:37 <pandora--> hey i'm doing the helloworld on the android site and I get this, should I be importing anything? cannot find symbol symbol  : class TextView
Jan 11 02:06:19 <duey> yes..
Jan 11 02:06:45 <duey> import android.widget.TextView
Jan 11 02:09:01 <pandora--> heh, i wish that was in the example code it gives you to copy-paste :)
Jan 11 02:09:01 <pandora--> ty
Jan 11 02:09:34 <jasta> I think that much of the Android samples and documentation assumes that you have at least a capable relationship with Java.
Jan 11 02:11:50 <pandora--> well ya, i do, but I don't know android yet (this is the helloworld tutorial) so hell if i know what package TextView might be in
Jan 11 02:12:06 <pandora--> though i just found the class list reference page, that'll help
Jan 11 02:12:33 <jasta> But what would make you think the symbol would be resolved without importing anything?
Jan 11 02:13:02 <jasta> Also, a quick search in the documentation for "TextView" would have shown you the package very easily.
Jan 11 02:13:39 <pandora--> that was my question i made up there
Jan 11 02:14:41 <pandora--> easy easy man, i'm just gettin started, and duey kindly answered my question
Jan 11 02:14:56 <pandora--> and I've found the reference to prevent asking questions about the matter again
Jan 11 02:15:01 <pandora--> :)
Jan 11 02:20:13 <morrildl> jasta, pandora-- : indeed, we do generaelly assume Java knowledge
Jan 11 02:21:07 <morrildl> We figured that would be the case, but I've now seen enough folks get tripped up by that that perhaps we misestimated
Jan 11 02:21:24 <morrildl> (and be "we" I mean "I" because that was more or less my personal decision :))
Jan 11 02:21:33 <jasta> morrildl: Not everyone is meant to be an astronaut.
Jan 11 02:21:38 <morrildl> jasta: indeed
Jan 11 02:21:56 <billmeltsner> Have Spacesuit, Will Travel
Jan 11 02:22:02 <morrildl> Do you guys think it would be enough to include a sort of global header?
Jan 11 02:22:08 <morrildl> or a link to some Java tutorials?
Jan 11 02:22:17 <jasta> a global header?
Jan 11 02:22:20 <morrildl> well
Jan 11 02:22:29 <morrildl> I mean a page that says "New to Java? Click here"
Jan 11 02:22:30 <pandora--> haha, well, i'm very java-familiar (weee! in ##java and #j2me for years) but I didn't want to make any assumptions of how android worked, which is why i asked 'if' i needed to import something to do the helloworld, even though i'm completely familiar with the symbol not found error
Jan 11 02:22:43 <morrildl> pandora--: ah ha
Jan 11 02:22:46 <morrildl> pandora--: GOTCHA
Jan 11 02:22:47 <morrildl> :P
Jan 11 02:22:52 <jasta> morrildl: I wouldn't bother, really.
Jan 11 02:22:57 <morrildl> Hmm, hadn't thought of that
Jan 11 02:23:01 <billmeltsner> I dunno, I could see it being useful
Jan 11 02:23:12 <morrildl> Yeah, it seems like the best thing would be to just make all the sample code complete
Jan 11 02:23:19 <pandora--> yeah
Jan 11 02:23:21 <morrildl> or at the very least, make sure there are clickable downloads
Jan 11 02:23:41 <pandora--> like i said, even as a java coder, i didn't want to make any assumptions of how android worked, in going through the tutorial
Jan 11 02:24:03 <pandora--> others might have the same prob, and even worse if they don't understand how to get around in java
Jan 11 02:24:17 <morrildl> yeah
Jan 11 02:24:28 <morrildl> also I suppose ultimately it just seems half-a$$ed
Jan 11 02:27:19 <jasta> Whoa, it's 6:30 already
Jan 11 02:27:27 <jasta> Time to go home :)
Jan 11 02:28:41 <pandora--> oh craps
Jan 11 02:28:55 <pandora--> time to go to bart to go to oakland to go to los angeles to go home
Jan 11 02:29:00 <pandora--> ugh
Jan 11 02:29:08 <morrildl> pandora--: that was me yesterday
Jan 11 02:29:14 <pandora--> haha
Jan 11 02:29:18 <morrildl> well, except ith a different itinerary
Jan 11 02:29:22 <morrildl> I came back from Dulles
Jan 11 02:32:03 <duey> i actually did the same thing pandora-- did
Jan 11 02:32:12 <duey> but i knew i just had to go find what package textview was in
Jan 11 02:33:37 <pandora--> off to bart. thanks for the help
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 11 02:59:56 2008