**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 14 02:59:56 2008 Jan 14 06:01:08 is the android platform considered a smart phone platform? Jan 14 06:02:23 I think it is. Jan 14 06:02:29 Some other people think it's a pretty dumb phone platform, though Jan 14 10:52:31 Hi everone, I'm new here! Jan 14 10:52:31 I'm a brazilian developter working with Android project :D Jan 14 15:00:46 why doesn't android display sysout? Jan 14 15:11:39 hey all Jan 14 15:11:49 i have a small problem with my xmpp client Jan 14 15:12:31 how do I intercept subscription requests? Jan 14 15:17:55 there is this function: public void approveSubscriptionRequest(String contact, boolean approve) Jan 14 15:18:10 but how do I know whether I have received an subscription request? Jan 14 15:57:21 you can use Log.d("Idmsg","Msg"); to Sysout, and see it on logcat Jan 14 16:00:01 pekayatt: were you talking to me? :P Jan 14 16:00:14 no sry, with illustir Jan 14 16:00:33 xmpp clients i haven't made anything, sry Jan 14 16:00:47 illustir: you can use Log.d("Idmsg","Msg"); to Sysout, and see it on logcat Jan 14 16:01:03 any1 know why map aplications aew so slow? Jan 14 16:58:51 has anyone got experience with using XMPP_ROSTER_PRES_CHANGED intents? Jan 14 16:59:42 sry, not yet... :/ Jan 14 17:01:13 yawn Jan 14 17:01:20 i should probably go to work. Jan 14 17:01:28 i'm 30 minutes late and i havent even gotten dressed hehe Jan 14 17:01:45 bah Jan 14 17:01:48 talking on irc helps Jan 14 17:02:37 honestly, ever since Android has come out, i've lost all motivation to work on anything else :) Jan 14 17:06:08 hehe that's both good and bad i guess...though one hopes you still work on personal hygiene ;) Jan 14 17:07:05 i think it's mostly good. i like being this excited about something geeky again :) Jan 14 17:07:21 yea i agree. aight lunchtime bbiab Jan 14 17:07:34 and frankly i'm too much of a coding ninja to just be sitting around all day :) Jan 14 17:10:03 anyway, off to work. :) Jan 14 17:18:22 how is it that the center pad button won't generate a keyevent? Jan 14 17:18:56 use the key 5 :D Jan 14 17:19:00 it works for me :D Jan 14 17:19:35 inside method onKeyDown ? Jan 14 17:20:26 nopz, on the method onKeyDown, search for key 5... if (keyCode == KeyEvent.KEYCODE_5) { Jan 14 17:23:47 another question: what's the point of having a onListItemClick method if the (real) phone doesn't have a mouse?? Jan 14 17:25:30 i didn't work with listitens yet :/, sry Jan 14 17:36:13 ive never connected a mouse to a phone :-D Jan 14 17:36:35 the idea is using like touch screen :D Jan 14 17:37:30 oops... didn't think about that... im too 80's I guess Jan 14 17:38:32 going to get some fuel for my mind... Jan 14 17:58:38 my MapsActivity occupy 5mb on Heap Size, i'm doing something wrong? Jan 14 18:03:44 ping? Jan 14 18:10:11 pekayatt: no idea Jan 14 18:10:18 pekayatt: maybe android just sucks Jan 14 18:10:21 :) Jan 14 18:10:46 the whole API is pre-beta Jan 14 18:13:16 Lede: ow this I know, but i was too surprise, because my opengl activity is well fast than this my map activity! Jan 14 18:18:23 the opengl API is efficient unless you load a lot of textures into memory Jan 14 18:23:49 Lede: hehehe, yeahh i'm doing this [:P], but i m learning how to optimize everthing with buffers, not so good yet :P Jan 14 18:29:57 Can i make some animation on overlap? Over a map? Jan 14 18:30:32 when is the phone gonna come out? Jan 14 18:32:03 next six months there be some tests versions Jan 14 18:32:13 i read somewhere :P Jan 14 20:14:36 yawn. Jan 14 20:14:59 hello morrildl. Jan 14 20:21:13 jasta: what did you do! Jan 14 20:23:48 hehe Jan 14 20:56:39 my ADC project is coming along nicely. i really wish i could open up the source now, though. Jan 14 20:56:54 i've got a very nice functional example of a sophisticated asynchronous service. Jan 14 20:57:03 and an activity that correctly responds to it Jan 14 20:57:42 started work on the server portion of the project yesterday, as well. Jan 14 21:07:57 winksaville: what timing :) Jan 14 21:08:19 i was just talking about the asynchronous service thing ;) Jan 14 21:08:38 hello Jan 14 21:11:13 hiho Jan 14 21:23:48 cya Jan 14 21:42:10 winksaville: I'm Josh, from the android-developers forum. Jan 14 21:45:28 Hi Josh, maybe can help me, I'd like to setup a tcp connection between Jan 14 21:45:30 two Android devices. First test is to ping between the emulator and Jan 14 21:45:32 the host and that doesn't work. In my case from emulator to host is: Jan 14 21:45:33 ping 192.168.0.133 Jan 14 21:45:35 No response, have you resolved this. I'm guessing there needs to be Jan 14 21:45:36 a route setup between qemu/emulator and the host. Jan 14 21:46:40 I haven't done anything like that, no. Jan 14 21:49:28 jasta: be honest Jan 14 21:49:39 jasta: do you also think android is one big blob of fail? Jan 14 21:50:53 there is nothing new in android, the only thing that makes people write software for it now is because of the load of cash you get from winning Jan 14 21:51:05 after that i doubt anyone will even care about it Jan 14 21:51:42 mobile devices are mostly used for calling and almost nothing more, if you look around people only complain about complicated phones with diales and whistles Jan 14 21:52:11 well aren't you the pessimist Jan 14 21:52:19 http://www.google.com/trends?q=smartphone%2C+pda Jan 14 21:52:24 decline like hell Jan 14 21:52:33 no one cares about these devices anymore Jan 14 21:52:36 perhaps that's because people are calling them "phones" now Jan 14 21:52:47 phones and smartphones have converged into just "phones" Jan 14 21:53:29 yes phones, not fully fledged PDA's Jan 14 21:53:32 additionally, http://www.google.com/trends?q=smartphone%2C+pda%2C+blackberry Jan 14 21:54:00 my point is that people are starting to assume that phones have these fancy PDA functions in them. Jan 14 21:54:18 not really Jan 14 21:54:40 people who have a blackberry also have a normal phone Jan 14 21:54:48 *shrug* some of them. Jan 14 21:54:58 I see less and less of that. Jan 14 21:55:18 and feel free to replace the trends search with "iphone" Jan 14 21:55:40 i asked a phone store owner and he said people don't care about functionality of the phone only the looks of the device Jan 14 21:55:58 I agree about that being true for most people Jan 14 21:56:20 however I do feel that smarter and smarter phones is the inevitable future. Jan 14 21:57:36 when people try to predict the future they are always wrong Jan 14 21:57:51 not always Jan 14 21:57:55 and it depends on how far into the future Jan 14 21:58:06 the futher into the future, the higher the probability of error Jan 14 21:58:16 it's like predicting the weather. Jan 14 21:58:33 there also people who say everything will move online to "web 2.0" webpages i.e. office suites, file storage etc. Jan 14 21:58:39 it also depends on how accurate the predition is... etc. Jan 14 21:58:46 it only happens in their head Jan 14 21:58:49 Lede: I have no idea how that game is going to play out. Jan 14 21:58:56 in the real world people don't care Jan 14 21:59:15 they just want to punch in a word document on their pc Jan 14 21:59:33 if you force them to use online office suites then they will change Jan 14 21:59:47 other wise it's like telling a rock to move off the rode Jan 14 22:00:01 inertia! Jan 14 22:00:15 so, either google starts forcing android phones into peoples face or the whole thing wont pull off Jan 14 22:00:33 right Jan 14 22:00:39 I was just talking about that today. Jan 14 22:00:41 I look forward to seeing the future. Jan 14 22:01:05 phones are getting smarter, with or without google's involvement. Jan 14 22:01:33 google is just a big fat chocobo that doesnt know what to do next Jan 14 22:01:35 google's recommendations for optimizing apps for android Jan 14 22:01:41 go against best practices for java Jan 14 22:02:03 how long can google live from google ads anyway Jan 14 22:02:27 hey! Jan 14 22:02:35 I just passed $1.oo with adsense! Jan 14 22:02:38 * absentia is gonna celebrate! Jan 14 22:02:50 at my current rate,it will take 50 yesars before I get paid! Jan 14 22:03:12 they keep your money and profit from it Jan 14 22:03:19 yup Jan 14 22:03:26 don't do evil..lol Jan 14 22:03:35 what's this got to do with android, exactly? Jan 14 22:03:44 android -> google Jan 14 22:03:50 ... and? Jan 14 22:03:56 android <- google Jan 14 22:04:43 anyway Jan 14 22:05:29 i think there is going to be pumped more money into android then google will ever get out of it Jan 14 22:06:19 out-of-android , so they can probably get all their investments from googla ads and whatever the hell they are doing Jan 14 22:06:37 s/googla/google Jan 14 22:07:31 just look at video.google for example Jan 14 22:07:56 a small startup like youtube got way more attention then google ever dreamed of Jan 14 22:07:59 I don't think that's a good example, but go ahead. Jan 14 22:08:13 clearly youtube dominated that realm Jan 14 22:08:35 next you'll tell me about facebook and orkut Jan 14 22:08:42 it's just a matter of time before another "google","microsoft" or whatever comes allong and pushes google aside Jan 14 22:09:02 then the "free lunch is over" Jan 14 22:09:15 It certainly seems like an inevitable part of the life of a business, doesn't it. Jan 14 22:09:28 What does that have to do with the viability of android as a platform, though? Jan 14 22:09:44 benley: google is trying to find the next "big" thing Jan 14 22:09:50 everybody is. Jan 14 22:10:41 not really, you can also just piggy back ride with other Jan 14 22:10:51 well, yeah. That's a different game though. Jan 14 22:11:07 anyway Jan 14 22:11:24 so google gambles and place large bet on mobile devices Jan 14 22:12:16 and i think it's a wrong one Jan 14 22:12:39 do you think google can afford to lose this bet? Jan 14 22:12:46 (and survive, that is) Jan 14 22:13:08 i think they can survive but they will lose trust from stock holders Jan 14 22:13:21 and how long will people use google ads Jan 14 22:13:30 ya, push aside google's $800/share sotck Jan 14 22:14:34 ha... if the company I worked for had shares at 800, I wouldn't be a billionaire. Jan 14 22:15:17 google shares are at $800? Jan 14 22:15:22 more like 650. Jan 14 22:15:23 screw $800... I'd be happy with $3 :-) Jan 14 22:15:30 woh Jan 14 22:15:36 wasnt it like $350 Jan 14 22:15:41 yes Jan 14 22:15:49 so is $800 out of the question? Jan 14 22:15:59 I know one firm is like $75K per share... Jan 14 22:16:04 berkshire hathaway. Jan 14 22:16:04 but good luck getting of those. Jan 14 22:16:07 yup Jan 14 22:16:34 * absentia was granted permission by the SEC in '97 to run his own exchange... Jan 14 22:16:37 you know, I shouldda done it. Jan 14 22:17:09 here I am 10 years later writing shitty PHP code for a living. Jan 14 22:18:10 yhl Jan 14 22:19:13 if you work for google you can be one of those that make more money then they are worth :D Jan 14 22:20:21 actually Jan 14 22:20:23 i bet the most manipulative people work there Jan 14 22:20:52 and most retarded .. Jan 14 22:21:16 i mean, how long will it take for all these "smart" people think of something new Jan 14 22:21:45 * absentia starts thinking... Jan 14 22:22:08 * Lede fast forwards absentia's thinking Jan 14 22:22:20 Lede: i just read the backlog, and i gotta admit i can't find a single shred of credibility in your argument. Jan 14 22:22:35 you might be right, but you'd be right entirely by accident in that case. Jan 14 22:23:41 according to wikipedia google has 15,916 employees, do they use humans to power the search engine or what? Jan 14 22:24:07 jasta: hi Jan 14 22:24:13 how many employees do you suppose cisco or ibm have? Jan 14 22:24:21 answer: a fucking lot. What do they all do? Jan 14 22:24:22 I think Google has taken two independently failing ideas and tried to combine them, hoping that together they would work better. That is, openness and industry cooperation. That is certainly more innovation than other powerful players have done. Jan 14 22:24:42 bot cisco and ibm are inovative companies Jan 14 22:24:51 oh but google isn't, ok. I see now. Jan 14 22:25:04 benley: what did google do? Jan 14 22:25:08 nothing Jan 14 22:25:21 * benley knows full well he is being trolled, fwiw Jan 14 22:25:29 benley: so do i. Jan 14 22:25:57 what does cisco do? they make top of the line networking equipement, they have people consulting all over the world they continue to research new technologies Jan 14 22:26:15 same with ibm Jan 14 22:26:53 Lede: Actually, they make mediocre network equipment augmented with a stripped down network stack not unlike what Linux is capable of. Jan 14 22:27:05 Lede: so they are innovative because they ship something tangible. Jan 14 22:27:18 partly Jan 14 22:27:19 I'll ignore the part about consulting being innovative. Jan 14 22:27:42 consulting as in, they are active, they are trying to work hard Jan 14 22:27:56 google sits on its ads letting people click on blue highlighted links Jan 14 22:28:02 innovation is working hard? Jan 14 22:28:14 and working hard is innovation? Jan 14 22:28:15 i never said that Jan 14 22:29:00 don't you see google is just really boring? Jan 14 22:29:17 they are a advertising company disguised as a search engine Jan 14 22:29:23 i don't see that, considering the services and features they've created have actually changed my daily life. Jan 14 22:29:32 haha Jan 14 22:30:04 what services? Jan 14 22:30:10 Google Maps, for one. Jan 14 22:30:12 everything they are putting out already existed Jan 14 22:30:37 it was a sad state of affairs before Google came jaunting through. Jan 14 22:30:56 mapquest was lightyears behind google maps at that time. Jan 14 22:31:05 (were there other alternatives back then?) Jan 14 22:31:07 Lede: Innovation does not require that you have an original concept, Lede. Jan 14 22:31:51 In fact, quite the opposite. Innovation is about doing something in a new way. Jan 14 22:31:54 yes, but doing nothing but reinventing the wheel is not innovating either Jan 14 22:32:10 wow you have a very pessimistic view on innovation lede Jan 14 22:32:12 i'm sorry Jan 14 22:32:23 he has a stupid view. Jan 14 22:32:25 i've got other things to do. Jan 14 22:32:42 what a depressing view of innovative technology, or even innovative re-use of technology Jan 14 22:33:33 so.. like, ferrari, definitely boring, ford made a car first, ferraris suck cause they weren't first. Jan 14 22:33:41 totally Jan 14 22:33:42 no Jan 14 22:33:55 * pandora-- puts on some anti-troll armor Jan 14 22:34:12 .. car analogies are the worst thing ever Jan 14 22:34:43 we are talking about a company that has been hiring the smartest people and hasnt done anything with them Jan 14 22:35:07 Lede: you should quantify that argument. Jan 14 22:35:29 huh.. hasn't done anything with them Jan 14 22:35:36 i don't know the numbers Jan 14 22:35:42 ya that does need some backup, i agree with benley here Jan 14 22:35:55 * Stephmw hands pandora-- an asbesdos suit Jan 14 22:36:02 first you say "huh" and then you ask for numbers .. oke Jan 14 22:36:07 i'm not some google fanboy or anything, (i actually prefer yahoo for most of the services offered by google) Jan 14 22:36:24 you have google fanboys? Jan 14 22:36:30 the end is near Jan 14 22:36:37 but still, google has done some very very influential things with their stuff Jan 14 22:36:40 meh. Apple has had fanboys longer than I've been alive. Jan 14 22:36:41 *sigh* Jan 14 22:36:46 and they're not dead yet! Jan 14 22:37:01 you don't understand Jan 14 22:37:05 google lives from ads Jan 14 22:37:23 they are trying to expand into different markets, but they didnt even move a inch in the last years Jan 14 22:37:35 ya.. so? Jan 14 22:37:39 lede: http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2008/01/spirits-that-we-called.html Jan 14 22:37:52 saying they make money from ads somehow disqualifies them from being innovative? Jan 14 22:38:16 here's lede's argument: 1) make money from ads. 2) 3) death! Jan 14 22:39:08 well, as much as I'd love to stay and argue, I gotta head for the train. Jan 14 22:39:12 * benley & Jan 14 22:39:15 Lede: i dunno, i think google earth is more than "nothing" Jan 14 22:39:21 and thats just one thing Jan 14 22:40:08 if you have the data needed then anyone could have made a google earth program Jan 14 22:40:36 anyway Jan 14 22:40:41 this is offtopic Jan 14 22:41:28 it started with me saying google android is going to be a failure because the mobile market doesnt really need a new operating system Jan 14 22:42:49 thats a fair statement Jan 14 22:42:49 and the only reason it atracts developers now is because of the prize money Jan 14 22:42:56 i disagree with that Jan 14 22:42:59 after that Jan 14 22:43:02 *woosh* Jan 14 22:43:07 i've got no interest in the prize money, and i'm messin with android Jan 14 22:43:26 i'm a j2me developer, and android seems genuinely interesting to me Jan 14 22:43:27 *shrug* Jan 14 22:43:29 you are one of the few then Jan 14 22:43:42 * Stephmw is *also* a j2me dev and interested in android Jan 14 22:43:53 *irssi* Jan 14 22:44:12 ... I'm just curious about Q4 this year, and how manufacturers will fuck up android :( Jan 14 22:44:20 Lede: yup, irssi Jan 14 22:45:01 google should have never announced a competition Jan 14 22:45:07 or prize money Jan 14 22:45:36 i'm not saying android will succeed or not, but its a step forward to pushing the envelope of an otherwise slow-evolution industry Jan 14 22:45:45 (midp3? msa where?) Jan 14 22:46:42 pandora--: aye, midp3 really didn't get any traction Jan 14 22:47:01 traction like teflon. Jan 14 22:47:03 no opinion on that? Jan 14 22:47:11 on what? Jan 14 22:47:21 my last comment Jan 14 22:48:24 uh, sure.. i dont see why thats a bad thing, its a catalyst to get developers familiar with what could be a very cool thing Jan 14 22:48:33 meh, the competition is PR, marketing fodder Jan 14 22:48:44 10mil really is pocket change compared to the PR it's generated Jan 14 22:48:53 lede: what other phone can you download custom apps on? Jan 14 22:48:54 it's not going to hurt android by giving people some startup incentive to poke at the sdk Jan 14 22:49:22 asm-: i don't like phones Jan 14 22:49:35 lede Jan 14 22:49:45 i have a Motorola F3 Jan 14 22:49:46 maybe theres something like iphone which already has a bunch of good apps Jan 14 22:49:47 you don't like phones? period? Jan 14 22:49:59 but with android we'll be able to treat it like a pc Jan 14 22:50:03 swap old apps for new Jan 14 22:50:03 etc Jan 14 22:50:15 my phones most advance feature is sms Jan 14 22:50:30 the phone is kosher Jan 14 22:51:34 Lede: so.. what brings you to #android? Jan 14 22:51:48 or the internets for that matter :) Jan 14 22:51:56 ill just write something for android and get some $ Jan 14 22:52:06 :) Jan 14 22:52:15 i don't care about google Jan 14 22:52:18 or android Jan 14 22:52:36 you probably won't get any money. Jan 14 22:52:37 i care about google as much as it cares for me so to say, heh Jan 14 22:52:41 you're actually kind of an idiot. Jan 14 22:52:58 jasta++ Jan 14 22:53:03 jasta: what did i do wrong to you? Jan 14 22:53:04 profit or prophet? profit prophet? Jan 14 22:53:05 Lede: good luck with that Jan 14 22:53:22 your raw passion is inspiring Jan 14 22:53:43 * Stephmw is breathless Jan 14 22:53:59 jasta do you have an answer? Jan 14 22:54:44 didn't think i needed to give one, do i? Jan 14 22:55:08 i really want to know Jan 14 22:55:09 you've shown that we can say whatever we want, justified or not. Jan 14 22:55:55 i complain about google and android and you call me idiot Jan 14 22:56:01 oke.. Jan 14 22:56:28 well, you just are acting like one, and i felt like saying it. Jan 14 22:56:38 i'm just telling the truth, something a lot of people are keeping for themselves Jan 14 22:56:40 apparently some folks agreed ;) Jan 14 22:57:01 or maybe you're just telling your opinion, and we all think you're actually kind of an idiot? Jan 14 22:57:33 if my opinion makes me an idiot, then there are a lot of idiots working on android Jan 14 22:57:52 i bet there are, actually. Jan 14 22:57:55 because i'm pretty sure my thought process isn't unique Jan 14 22:58:02 and actually very common Jan 14 23:00:40 also the whole SDK really stinks Jan 14 23:01:08 i can't believe this is going be on phones within 5 months Jan 14 23:03:17 from documentation that reads like as if it has been translated by a bablefish to poorly designed API and layouts that don't work when you create a slightly complex interface Jan 14 23:03:35 Jan 14 23:04:05 call me a idiot, but i can't believe this is what google's smartest are writting Jan 14 23:04:58 even simple bug reporting isnt in place after months Jan 14 23:08:06 android is a failure Jan 14 23:09:06 you're talking to yourself now. Jan 14 23:09:11 I disagree that the SDK stinks, it just immature. As for bug reporting Jan 14 23:09:12 I agree thats definitely a problem, hence I created android-bugs@googlegroups.com. Jan 14 23:09:14 The idea is to post bugs to a single group. Jan 14 23:09:26 benley: actually, you just red what i said, so no :) Jan 14 23:09:39 Lede: I've completely lost interest. Jan 14 23:09:58 ok Jan 14 23:10:41 Lede: if you dislike it so much, you're free to /quit ya know? Jan 14 23:11:09 like i said, i'm just here for the competition Jan 14 23:11:30 sounds like you're here for competition and soapboxing actually Jan 14 23:12:03 no Jan 14 23:12:11 i have been here for a very long time actually Jan 14 23:12:23 i just kept my mouth shut and helped people Jan 14 23:12:34 but today i just felt like saying what is on my mind Jan 14 23:14:00 i'm not saying you should agree, but i think that a lot of people think like me and thats why i said after the first round you will see less developers active working on android Jan 14 23:14:56 and if android is supposed to become widly used because developers write a lot of software for it, then that becomes false Jan 14 23:15:11 which leaves android being just another mobile phone os Jan 14 23:15:16 understand? Jan 14 23:17:48 you've said it a few times now Jan 14 23:18:11 i'm repeating so you can understand Jan 14 23:18:24 i think you're actually kind of an idiot. Jan 14 23:18:35 just thought i'd repeat myself so you'd figure it out. Jan 14 23:18:38 :) Jan 14 23:18:41 :D Jan 14 23:18:45 I'm not so sure its just another mobile phone os, just the fact Jan 14 23:18:46 "anybody" can write code for it seems to make it different. Jan 14 23:18:48 Are there other os's that are this open? Jan 14 23:19:04 winksaville: yeah, there are. :) Jan 14 23:19:11 Windows Mobile, Palm OS, and Symbian are all "this" open hehe Jan 14 23:19:21 Android, being closed source, is not unlike those platforms at present hehe Jan 14 23:19:39 but ultimately, it will be very unlike those platforms. lots of hobbyist goodness to come along with the source code. Jan 14 23:19:48 i want my toaster to run the android stack. Jan 14 23:19:51 Lede has a very pessimistic view on android, and google, but he wants googles money. it's all that simple Jan 14 23:19:56 I want my toaster to make toast. Jan 14 23:19:56 and call me when my toast is done. Jan 14 23:20:09 pandora--: yeah Jan 14 23:20:16 pandora--: yeah, but he won't get it, because it's not really a pessimist. he's just an idiot :) Jan 14 23:20:19 i care this much for google | | Jan 14 23:20:28 s/it's/he's/g Jan 14 23:20:47 brb, stuff to do Jan 14 23:20:55 ya i hear ya there Jan 14 23:21:00 * pandora-- back to j2me work Jan 14 23:21:18 But can you install and run applications these phone easily? Jan 14 23:21:20 I'm hoping that will be the difference. Jan 14 23:22:29 I too would like to see the Android stack on other devices. Jan 14 23:22:50 winksaville: yeah, Windows Mobile is probably the most like Android in that you can write C# with .NET Forms and junk. But you'll need Visual Studio to do it, and it's a crap platform to develop for. Jan 14 23:23:10 Actually, .NET Compact Framework seems much more beta than Android :) Jan 14 23:23:30 i actually find Visual Studio more pleasing to work with then Ecplise Jan 14 23:23:32 there's basically no widgets at all. you have to paint everything yourself. it's insane. Jan 14 23:23:42 Lede: yeah, but you're an idiot. Jan 14 23:23:46 window mobile makes me want to cry when I use it Jan 14 23:23:49 *windows Jan 14 23:23:51 in android you need to manually write the XML Jan 14 23:23:56 * benley currently carries a winmo 6 phone, and can't stand the thing Jan 14 23:24:01 Developing is one thing, installing and running are another. Jan 14 23:24:03 Am I wrong to say that installing is a problem on other systems? Jan 14 23:24:09 benley: ditto. they're the best of a really sad lot :) Jan 14 23:24:27 winksaville: no, it's completely open to 3rd party applications. and anyone with visual studio can develop for it. Jan 14 23:24:46 palmos and symbian are both precisely the same, although do not require visual studio of course :) Jan 14 23:26:28 winksaville: Android is not unlike those platforms currently, in that sense. Of course, it will eventually be open source, which certainly sets it apart. Jan 14 23:26:41 but more importantly, the platform API is actually sensible, which is in direct contrast to all of those other platforms. Jan 14 23:27:02 I think FOSS is a big difference Jan 14 23:27:23 i would tend to agree, but currently i can't really rate Android on a property it does not possess :) Jan 14 23:27:25 * Stephmw will wait for the full code drop Jan 14 23:27:31 the platform API, though, is much more sensible :) Jan 14 23:27:53 Stephmw: how can they, if they are still working on it Jan 14 23:27:54 What is the opinion of iPhone, I quite like mine Jan 14 23:27:56 and real soon now there is suppose to be an SDK. Jan 14 23:27:57 Will it be interesting to people here? Jan 14 23:28:15 Lede: works fine for every other FOSS project out there... Jan 14 23:28:15 certainly Jan 14 23:28:42 Stephmw: yeah, but google doesnt want people to work on it, they just want the OSS label for pr Jan 14 23:28:45 I wish the iphone wasn't quite so saddled with legal evilness. Jan 14 23:29:05 Lede: right, so it's still not FOSS... yet Jan 14 23:30:19 i need to rest Jan 14 23:30:28 good bye, have fun programming Jan 14 23:30:37 * Lede ->sleep(NaN); Jan 14 23:30:59 But will be, so they say:) Jan 14 23:35:14 A short while ago I asked Jasta about pinging. I'm guessing the problem is with Jan 14 23:35:15 network routing and seems to be confirmed by (http://people.redhat.com/berrange/olpc/sdk/network-bridge.html) Jan 14 23:35:17 where is says: Jan 14 23:35:18 "The default networking configuration for QEMU sets up a pure userspace network stack, using the SLIRP protocol for outbound TCP traffic to the host. This does not, however, allow for UDP traffic or any incoming TCP connections". Jan 14 23:35:20 I thought I'd try to follow the instructions here (http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~djw/qemu.html) to setup Jan 14 23:35:21 a bridge. Anybody ever tried this? Jan 14 23:53:47 winksaville: maybe i could help, actually. Jan 14 23:53:58