**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 06 02:59:57 2008
Feb 06 08:35:10 <cutmasta> mornin
Feb 06 09:44:19 <davidw> romainguy, I can't disable buttons - is that a known thing?
Feb 06 13:10:40 <benley_> I guess it is chinese new year
Feb 06 13:10:42 <benley_> gah, ww
Feb 06 14:17:17 <chomchom> hello, could someone help me clarify the difference between Bundle and shared preference use? Am I right in saying that Bundles should always be  used when passing values to an activity, whereas shared preferences should be used for values shared throughout the application; not just for one activity in particular?
Feb 06 14:17:47 <chomchom> I ask because the Demo in the Demo apps with android does not make a clear distinction in implementation.
Feb 06 14:20:45 <chomchom> It demonstrates the passing of a value to a sub activity through the use of shared prefs rather than the bundle
Feb 06 14:22:50 <skicson> My understanding is that shared preferences are used for persistence whereas the bundle is used for passing values to an activity.  hadn't seen that demo.
Feb 06 14:23:55 <chomchom> The one for redirection
Feb 06 14:24:01 <chomchom> uses the shared prefs
Feb 06 14:24:19 <chomchom> but there is none that create a new bundle and then put a mappable value in it
Feb 06 14:28:23 <skicson> the only demo that i remember seeing use a bundle was in the onFreeze in order to reset when the onResume occurs.
Feb 06 14:28:54 <chomchom> yeah, thats pretty activity specific as well
Feb 06 15:56:31 <chomchom> Has anyone been using any good tools they could recommend developing their android application?
Feb 06 16:02:00 <cutmasta> chomchom, the sdk?
Feb 06 16:02:06 <cutmasta> eclipse plugin?
Feb 06 16:02:12 <cutmasta> netbeans plugin?
Feb 06 16:04:01 <chomchom> yeah these are all good, theres also an intelliJ plugin
Feb 06 16:04:26 <chomchom> but I mean like in your every day work environment, if there is anything else you find quite handy
Feb 06 16:04:41 <chomchom> just curious, making conversation
Feb 06 16:05:00 <cutmasta> i understand
Feb 06 16:05:28 <chomchom> I use SQLite Database Browser to verify the data in the SQLite DB. Thats quite handy
Feb 06 16:05:42 <cutmasta> yap, good idea
Feb 06 16:06:20 <chomchom> Also I use the a library called sqlitejdbc to run unit test against the created DB entries
Feb 06 16:06:37 <chomchom> also handy
Feb 06 16:08:02 <chomchom> have you got any extra little tools you use?
Feb 06 17:35:13 <mike1o> are javadocs available for android java APIs?
Feb 06 17:39:51 <davidw> mike1o, apparently the docs are javadocs
Feb 06 17:39:58 <davidw> just munged in terms of the template/formatting
Feb 06 17:40:32 <mike1o> I know but I I wanted something that would be compatible with eclipse...
Feb 06 17:40:39 <morrildl> Fun Android Fact:  all contents on http://code.google.com/android except for the package/class reference are actually generated by a doclet
Feb 06 17:40:51 <morrildl> mike1o: what's missing?
Feb 06 17:41:08 <mike1o> I can link that online docs to eclipse?
Feb 06 17:41:28 <morrildl> The plugin should handle it
Feb 06 17:41:37 <morrildl> is there a class that is missing JavaDocs?
Feb 06 17:42:00 <mike1o> no I didn't mean to say that :)
Feb 06 17:44:03 <mike1o> using android_sdk_linux_m3-rc37a/docs/reference as javadocs won't show me the documentation when I hover over android methods of classes :9
Feb 06 17:44:41 <zhobbs> mike1o, works for me
Feb 06 17:44:52 <zhobbs> mike1o, I didn't have to do anything...I guess the plugin did it for me
Feb 06 17:44:53 <davidw> morrildl, yeah: android.telephony.Phone :->
Feb 06 17:44:57 <mike1o> then I probably need to set some stuff up
Feb 06 17:45:38 <morrildl> mike1o: well, no, you shouldn't have to if you are using our Eclipse plugin
Feb 06 17:45:49 <morrildl> davidw: indeed :)
Feb 06 17:45:59 <mike1o> oh yeah.. morrildl it doesn't work just for some methods...
Feb 06 17:47:00 <davidw> morrildl, actually, all I care about is getting the number of the current (outgoing in this case) call, hopefully that will be addressed at some point
Feb 06 17:47:29 <mike1o> nope actually it doesn't work only for my classes ... oops... sorry guys... I need to drink more coffee
Feb 06 17:47:41 <morrildl> davidw: you mean android.telephony.IPhone ?
Feb 06 17:49:24 <zhobbs> no docs for android.app.IActivityManager
Feb 06 17:49:31 <davidw> morrildl, no, I'm interested in the other stuff like Phone, PhoneFactory, GSMPhone, Connection,  or whatever else it takes to get the current call information
Feb 06 17:50:01 <davidw> I actually managed to get makeDefaultPhones() working by killing the phone app, but that's pretty useless for real apps
Feb 06 17:50:37 <davidw> and actually that's not a pressing need... my client understands that it's not supported right at the moment
Feb 06 17:51:32 <morrildl> davidw: er, you can kill the phone app?
Feb 06 17:51:37 <morrildl> from code, or from adb/ddms?
Feb 06 17:52:09 <davidw> from adb shell, don't worry:-)
Feb 06 17:52:12 * morrildl is looking at the list of docs that changed
Feb 06 17:52:15 <morrildl> davidw: phew :)
Feb 06 17:52:30 <morrildl> There is a PhoneStateIntentReceiver
Feb 06 17:52:36 <davidw> morrildl, know offhand what restarts the phone app?
Feb 06 17:52:52 <morrildl> davidw: not sure, it should be restarted by the system watchdog
Feb 06 17:52:58 <davidw> that got me curious too, although it's not really relevant to what I'm doing
Feb 06 17:53:16 <morrildl> Phone and Home are the only 2 "special" processes that the system won't kill and tries to keep running
Feb 06 17:53:20 <mike1o> morrildl, actually Im.Contacts doesn't have any javadocs says here
Feb 06 17:53:34 <zhobbs> morrildl, you know if streaming video will be included in the next sdk?
Feb 06 17:53:52 <morrildl> zhobbs: in what form?  you mean in the MediaPlayer stuff?
Feb 06 17:53:57 <zhobbs> yeah
Feb 06 17:54:15 <mike1o> morrildl, I guess cause it's only a content provider and not really a class/interface etc.
Feb 06 17:54:16 <morrildl> not sure
Feb 06 17:54:26 <morrildl> that's harder to tell from an API delta report :)
Feb 06 17:54:44 <morrildl> mike1o: probably
Feb 06 17:55:52 <davidw> wow, this sucks...someone copied the calendar event reminder and made it into a spam template:-(
Feb 06 17:55:53 <morrildl> so the telephony stuff changed
Feb 06 17:56:00 <morrildl> there's some GSM stuff in there now
Feb 06 17:56:07 <morrildl> davidw: where?
Feb 06 17:56:18 <davidw> morrildl, google calendar, not the phone stuff
Feb 06 17:56:29 <morrildl> do you mean in the Group?
Feb 06 17:56:45 <morrildl> oh wiat, you mean someone's spamming your calendar?
Feb 06 17:57:32 <davidw> someone sent me an email that looks exactly like a calendar event message... I did report phishing, hopefully those get investigated
Feb 06 17:58:09 <davidw> it was a good enough fake that it took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on
Feb 06 17:59:12 <davidw> anyway...irrelevant, it just surprised me...
Feb 06 18:00:04 <mike1o> morrildl, i was wondering Im.Contacts.AVATAR_CONTACT ... what kind of data format is it?
Feb 06 18:00:41 <morrildl> davidw: ahh... that's lame
Feb 06 18:00:46 <morrildl> definitely report it
Feb 06 18:00:51 <morrildl> mike1o: not sure
Feb 06 18:01:47 <morrildl> mike1o: actually I am not even sure which class you're referring to
Feb 06 18:02:06 <mike1o> morrildl, it's a content provider
Feb 06 18:02:27 <mike1o> actually it's a srting constant containing an uri
Feb 06 18:02:31 <davidw> introspection is cool
Feb 06 18:02:34 <morrildl> Contacts is, yes
Feb 06 18:02:55 <morrildl> What do you mean by Im.Contacts?
Feb 06 18:04:03 <mike1o> sure...
Feb 06 18:04:13 <mike1o> Im.Contacts.AVATAR_CONTACT
Feb 06 18:05:20 <mike1o> could be Im.Avatars.CONTENT_URI also...
Feb 06 18:07:34 <morrildl> mike1o: what is "Im"?
Feb 06 18:07:52 <mike1o> instant messenger ?
Feb 06 18:08:00 <zhobbs> for xmpp right?
Feb 06 18:08:05 <mike1o> yup
Feb 06 18:08:11 <morrildl> what is the full package name?
Feb 06 18:08:38 <mike1o> Im.Contacts.AVATAR_CONTACT ?
Feb 06 18:08:45 <mike1o> Im.Contacts
Feb 06 18:08:55 <mike1o> or Im.Avatars
Feb 06 18:10:20 <mike1o> actually I was trying to load Im.Avatars.DATA in to an imageview... but that didn't work out too well... I think I might have to write an adapter
Feb 06 18:11:34 <morrildl> mike1o: that isn't a package name though
Feb 06 18:11:44 <morrildl> I don't know what class you're talking about
Feb 06 18:13:12 <mike1o> it's probably not a class but a content URI... don't tell I have to read the xmpp specifications :(
Feb 06 18:13:36 <morrildl> well, I mean that as far as I can tell, that class doesn't even exist :)
Feb 06 18:13:49 <morrildl> where are you seeing it?
Feb 06 18:17:11 <mike1o> in eclipse I type "Im" and then I press ctrl-space and I get a list of stuff...
Feb 06 18:17:32 <mike1o> oops...
Feb 06 18:17:45 <mike1o> it's android.provider.Im
Feb 06 18:17:47 <mike1o> actually
Feb 06 18:17:59 <mike1o> my mistake
Feb 06 18:25:35 <mike1o> but it's weird cause it doesn't appear in here http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/provider/package-summary.html
Feb 06 18:31:07 <morrildl> ahh
Feb 06 18:31:15 <morrildl> If it's not in the reference docs, it doesn't exist
Feb 06 18:31:24 <morrildl> That is, it's an internal system class
Feb 06 18:41:11 <mike1o> morrildl, so how am I supposed to find get info about it?
Feb 06 18:42:19 <morrildl> mike1o: you aren't :)
Feb 06 18:42:22 <morrildl> you aren't supposed to use it
Feb 06 18:42:28 <morrildl> It's not a public supported API
Feb 06 18:42:35 <mike1o> oops :)
Feb 06 18:42:48 <morrildl> If a class has "poor" JavaDocs, that means it's just poor docs
Feb 06 18:43:09 <morrildl> If a class has no JavaDocs at all that means it's non-public/unsupported
Feb 06 18:43:40 <morrildl> We are working on a way to strip those classes from android.jar so they don't appear in Eclipse either
Feb 06 18:45:52 <davidw> mike1o, google for dexdump :-)
Feb 06 18:46:19 <mike1o> Did you mean: hexdump  ?
Feb 06 18:46:31 <davidw> no
Feb 06 18:47:02 <mike1o> ok :-)
Feb 06 18:47:14 <davidw> you can also use javap to get at the stuff in android.jar and see what things look like, although of course it's all unsupported and might change
Feb 06 18:47:35 <davidw> but it's fun if you like to poke and  prod at things and see what they do
Feb 06 18:49:40 <davidw> wife says it's time to fix dinner....later:-)
Feb 06 18:50:25 <mike1o> tnx davidw
Feb 06 18:51:08 <mike1o> this is like reverse engineering
Feb 06 18:52:59 <benley> more like forensic pathology :)
Feb 06 18:54:55 <benley> actually, nevermind. wrong channel.
Feb 06 18:55:06 <benley> again.
Feb 06 18:59:46 <davidw> mike1o, yeah... so don't depend on it, it's just for fun
Feb 06 20:19:36 <morrildl> nah, too markety-sounding
Feb 06 20:19:46 <morrildl> better
Feb 06 20:21:13 <michaelnovakjr> howdy
Feb 06 20:22:47 <michaelnovakjr> ::looks empty::
Feb 06 20:24:00 <zhobbs> howdy
Feb 06 20:24:10 <michaelnovakjr> hey
Feb 06 20:24:28 <michaelnovakjr> i am curious about media streaming on android? does it exist?
Feb 06 20:25:11 <michaelnovakjr> more specifically audio
Feb 06 20:26:36 <zhobbs> I don't think it works very well
Feb 06 20:26:40 <zhobbs> or at all maybe
Feb 06 20:26:52 <zhobbs> might be able to get rtsp audio only working
Feb 06 20:28:21 <michaelnovakjr> interesting...its only an added feature, not an absolute must luckily
Feb 06 20:29:41 <michaelnovakjr> whens the deadline for the challenge first round
Feb 06 20:30:36 <zhobbs> apr 14
Feb 06 20:30:48 <michaelnovakjr> good stuff
Feb 06 20:35:11 <jasonlee> morridl: whens the signup page for the Boston event going to be available?
Feb 06 20:35:55 <morrildl> jasonlee: that's an excellent question
Feb 06 20:36:12 <morrildl> unfortunately Azhar is out of the office until tomorrow, and only she has the answer :)
Feb 06 20:36:56 <jasonlee> morrildl: but it's for sure on the 23rd right, no chance of it changing..
Feb 06 20:37:46 <morrildl> jasonlee: Yup!
Feb 06 20:38:43 <jasonlee> cool, i'll go ahead and buy my plane tickets then
Feb 06 20:39:14 <jasonlee> morrildl: oh, and btw, i emailed you a picture of us in front of the cylon from the campfire, hope you got it.
Feb 06 20:41:52 <davidw> wha?  that sounds entertaining
Feb 06 20:43:45 <jasonlee> yeah, the campfire was cool, i hope they do it again..
Feb 06 20:45:03 <zhobbs> there was a cylon at the campfire?
Feb 06 20:46:23 <jasonlee> yep: http://jasonhudgins.blogspot.com/2008/01/android-campfire.html
Feb 06 20:46:47 <jasonlee> i'm the fat dude on the right =)
Feb 06 20:47:07 <davidw> "a simulated campfire" ? sounds californian;-)
Feb 06 20:48:05 <jasonlee> it was some backlit colored fabric that was being blown around by a fan or something..i didn't look at it too closely
Feb 06 20:48:08 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Feb 06 20:49:04 <davidw> jasonlee, so what are you working on that you're completely open about?
Feb 06 20:49:46 <jasonlee> I'm working on an app that tells you what your standing next to
Feb 06 20:49:58 <michaelnovakjr> jasonlee, ?
Feb 06 20:50:08 <davidw> *what* you're standing next to?
Feb 06 20:50:11 <davidw> not who?
Feb 06 20:50:16 <jasonlee> yep..
Feb 06 20:50:17 <davidw> how so?
Feb 06 20:50:24 <xbit> i hope i know what i'm standing next to
Feb 06 20:50:37 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Feb 06 20:50:45 <michaelnovakjr> talk about really not having to think at all
Feb 06 20:51:14 * davidw thinks of the blind guys and the elephant...
Feb 06 20:51:14 <jasonlee> haha, i love saying it like that, but more specifically, it references web resources, so if your standing next to a statue of an important figure, it will open up the wikipedia page (or any arbitrary web page) about that person..
Feb 06 20:51:32 <jasonlee> geographic relevance if you will
Feb 06 20:51:40 <michaelnovakjr> thats a big database!
Feb 06 20:51:44 <davidw> jasonlee, that's pretty cool... I had thought about that myself... get the location coordinates, and fetch the relevant wikipedia page
Feb 06 20:52:17 <jasonlee> yeah, we bootstrapped our service with wikipedia, but the app (which i'm going to give out for free) will let anyone make their own geo-bookmarks
Feb 06 20:52:28 <jasonlee> thus the database drows on itself, noway i could put all that data in myself..
Feb 06 20:52:36 <michaelnovakjr> true
Feb 06 20:53:01 <jasonlee> nobody has come out and told me it was a dumb idea yet
Feb 06 20:53:18 <davidw> it's not
Feb 06 20:53:32 <davidw> (well, since I had it too, I tend to think not;-)
Feb 06 20:54:21 <jasonlee> the app is almost finished, but now that they extended the deadline, i'm thinking about doing another one for the contest..
Feb 06 20:54:26 <davidw> morrildl, romainguy: setEnabled(false) with buttons doesn't seem to... "work" - I looked in the bug list, but didn't see anything.  Is it a known issue?
Feb 06 21:09:24 <morrildl> davidw: yeah that's known and long-fixed
Feb 06 21:09:38 <morrildl> It probably isn't in the external tracker
Feb 06 21:13:50 <davidw> ah ok, cool
Feb 06 21:13:53 <davidw> I figured as much
Feb 06 21:28:29 <zhobbs> are ImageViews focusable?
Feb 06 21:32:59 <zhobbs> hmmm, I probably have to create a custom imagebutton view
Feb 06 21:41:59 <zhobbs> hmmm...actually might be able to control how a selected image looks via a theme...
Feb 06 23:46:31 <HalfShell> Hello everyone.
Feb 06 23:47:12 <zhobbs> hello
Feb 06 23:53:48 <HalfShell> how are you doing today zhobbs?
Feb 06 23:54:19 <HalfShell> I have a question about bluetooth in Android if anyone here knows about that...
Feb 07 00:45:51 <chomchom> hello
Feb 07 00:46:34 <chomchom> saw halfshell and zhobbs greeting so thought I'd join in
Feb 07 00:46:52 <chomchom> we should make a habit of it. Makes things a little more friendly
Feb 07 00:53:49 <skicson> chomchom: long day isn't it? weren't you on early this am?
Feb 07 00:53:55 <skicson> or maybe that was yesterday
Feb 07 00:54:01 <skicson> it's a just a blur.
Feb 07 00:54:05 <skicson>  a=all
Feb 07 01:01:19 <chomchom> yup
Feb 07 01:01:33 <chomchom> I'm hard coring it man
Feb 07 01:01:56 <chomchom> I'd like to get through to the second round of the competition
Feb 07 01:02:08 <chomchom> how is your application coming along?
Feb 07 01:02:25 <chomchom> for you to know that I was up, that must mean you were also up!
Feb 07 01:09:49 <duey> i should start
Feb 07 01:10:59 <chomchom> you should start?
Feb 07 01:11:19 <duey> my project
Feb 07 01:11:48 <chomchom> oh yeah you should definetly start
Feb 07 01:11:50 <skicson> no duey.  take a few more weeks off.
Feb 07 01:11:52 <skicson> :-D
Feb 07 01:11:54 <chomchom> right now
Feb 07 01:11:59 <duey> good idea
Feb 07 01:12:01 <skicson> right in april.
Feb 07 01:12:11 <duey> uni starts soon
Feb 07 01:12:14 <duey> they will make me do it then
Feb 07 01:12:24 <chomchom> yeah? in uni?!
Feb 07 01:12:30 <duey> yeah its my honours project
Feb 07 01:12:31 <chomchom> wow that would be great
Feb 07 01:12:37 <skicson> chomchom: my app is coming along good.  I'm just sitting here wishing there were actually people with handsets that could use it. :-(
Feb 07 01:12:40 <chomchom> you lucky duck
Feb 07 01:12:57 <duey> i should get a decent prototype in 1.5 months
Feb 07 01:13:02 <chomchom> have you shown it to anyone yet skicson?
Feb 07 01:13:15 <skicson> just friends and family so far
Feb 07 01:13:24 <duey> secrets are secret
Feb 07 01:13:31 <chomchom> Whats the feed back so far?
Feb 07 01:13:48 <skicson> "Why can't I have it on my phone"
Feb 07 01:13:48 <duey> well everyone i talked to about my idea is "holy shit thats awesome"
Feb 07 01:14:19 <chomchom> ! well you guys must have some jaw dropping stuff!
Feb 07 01:14:28 <romainguy> dre
Feb 07 01:14:32 <duey> will be if it works
Feb 07 01:14:33 <duey> lol
Feb 07 01:14:42 <duey> complex ideas have complex problems
Feb 07 01:14:53 <duey> 400mhz of problems
Feb 07 01:14:59 <chomchom> I'm really looking forward to the big flood of all these applications
Feb 07 01:15:52 <chomchom> I'm not really into keeping everything secret I prefer just to share and share alike. For the amount of effort it takes in the actual implementaion people don't have time to steal!
Feb 07 01:16:14 <duey> i dont like releasing unfinished things
Feb 07 01:16:19 <skicson> yah, i'm interested to see what other people have come up with.
Feb 07 01:17:14 <chomchom> Are you guys going to release it before the entry date?
Feb 07 01:17:28 <duey> unlikely
Feb 07 01:17:33 <skicson> yah probably
Feb 07 01:17:39 <duey> ultimately i would prefer it to be released when its perfect
Feb 07 01:17:51 <duey> or at least usable
Feb 07 01:18:00 <chomchom> you should try and get something out even if its rough for  the sake of usability/bug testing
Feb 07 01:18:06 <duey> yeah
Feb 07 01:18:22 <chomchom> by that time theres no way anyone could steal anything in time!
Feb 07 01:18:36 <duey> yeah but secrets are fun
Feb 07 01:20:18 <duey> ultimately i have to finish it to get honours
Feb 07 01:21:19 <chomchom> well thats ideal
Feb 07 01:21:55 <chomchom> may as well make it a fully commercially viable application. That way you've produced software in your study time that can produce a small income
Feb 07 01:22:11 <duey> well if i release it, it will be open source
Feb 07 01:22:16 <chomchom> or at least establish enough kudos to guarantee you a position somehwere
Feb 07 01:22:24 <duey> yeah its more for kudos
Feb 07 01:23:03 <chomchom> income can be gained from open software it is just gained through bespoke services
Feb 07 01:23:28 <duey> not interested in generating income off the project
Feb 07 01:23:40 <duey> I have a job :o)
Feb 07 01:24:35 <chomchom> well a job is only secure as the next paycheck.  A product is an asset
Feb 07 01:25:27 <duey> i guess
Feb 07 01:40:38 <chomchom> has anyone ever seen this error before?
Feb 07 01:40:41 <chomchom> E/AndroidRuntime(650): Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: view android.widget.TextView@4004a358 being added, but it already has a parent
Feb 07 01:41:16 <chomchom> It happens when I try to add another Text view to something with a text view
Feb 07 01:41:55 <romainguy> chomchom: Where does the TextView you're trying to add come from?
Feb 07 01:42:28 <romainguy> It seems the TextView is already part of the View hierarchy and you're trying to add it to ViewGroup that's not its current one
Feb 07 01:42:52 <chomchom> ah right
Feb 07 01:43:04 <chomchom> does that mean it is in the wrong activity?
Feb 07 01:43:15 <romainguy> Not necessarily
Feb 07 01:43:20 <romainguy> It just means the TextView already has a parent
Feb 07 01:46:45 <chomchom> ah
Feb 07 01:46:49 <chomchom> I get it now
Feb 07 01:47:16 <romainguy> :)
Feb 07 01:47:52 <chomchom> It was because I was trying to source the textview from an xml file and then programatically assign it to a collection. But I couldn't jus lift it out the xml and then reassign it to a different ViewGroup
Feb 07 01:47:56 <chomchom> thanks
Feb 07 01:48:07 <romainguy> Actually you can do that
Feb 07 01:48:22 <romainguy> but when you use the inflater you should just not pass a parent ViewGroup to the inflate() method
Feb 07 01:48:55 <chomchom> so what should you pass?
Feb 07 01:49:27 <romainguy> null
Feb 07 01:49:34 <chomchom> ah
Feb 07 01:49:45 <chomchom> right yeah that'll work
Feb 07 02:05:32 <chomchom> Has anyone attempted to make their own skin for the android emulator?
Feb 07 02:19:28 <chomchom> night guys, thx for the help
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 07 02:59:57 2008