**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 15 02:59:56 2008 Feb 15 04:56:27 what's the killer application for android? Feb 15 04:57:20 i'm sure everyone is developing one :) Feb 15 04:59:38 its definitely not google though Feb 15 06:35:07 sushmu: its definitely not google though << how so? Feb 15 06:41:35 a very simplistic observation: google is already so yesterday Feb 15 06:41:45 atleast that's what people might think Feb 15 06:42:09 hi Feb 15 06:42:28 does flattening frames work on android Feb 15 06:43:19 people are used to google innovations.. so they are looking for killer apps from anyone other than google Feb 15 06:43:30 from google, they take granted Feb 15 06:43:53 again simple theory.. not backed by any deep research Feb 15 06:45:45 when a third party company makes it big with android and comes up with a killer app.. it takes android and google to the next level, IMHO Feb 15 06:46:42 it also give a lot of push and credibility to the whole open source thingy Feb 15 06:47:03 thats bs Feb 15 06:47:03 ok.. i'll stop now Feb 15 06:47:11 welcome duey Feb 15 06:47:19 i am welcomed Feb 15 06:47:35 tell me why its bs Feb 15 06:47:45 i look to google for innovation Feb 15 06:48:08 yes and we got android Feb 15 09:04:07 http://pastebin.com/m11a0212c Feb 15 09:04:14 looking for some suggestions **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 15 09:58:04 2008 Feb 15 14:32:37 anyone else have problems with app icons? Feb 15 15:09:26 mike1o: haha yeah Feb 15 15:09:37 mike1o: every phone needs a different size Feb 15 15:48:28 please put XMPP back in Feb 15 15:49:22 lot of people are unhappy about GTalk dumping XMPP support Feb 15 15:49:43 I'd say go for the mailing list Feb 15 15:50:08 good idea.. let me register my concerns Feb 15 15:58:19 sushmu: xmpp was never in Feb 15 15:58:33 sushmu: the old xmpp only worked with gtalk Feb 15 15:58:33 pandora--, what are the possible choices? Feb 15 15:59:00 that's why they renamed it Feb 15 15:59:31 sushmu, full xmpp wasn't supposed to be in anyway... apparently Feb 15 16:01:46 http://davanum.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/android-just-use-smack-api-for-xmpp/ Feb 15 16:01:57 (sample on the old SDK) Feb 15 16:04:23 it would be great if we have full xmpp support Feb 15 16:04:31 just posted to the dev group Feb 15 16:05:07 with the latest announcement, xmpp will be eased out soon Feb 15 16:06:02 imagine building a twitter like service Feb 15 16:06:27 with xmpp, a jabber server would do the trick Feb 15 16:09:14 with xmpp, it'd be hugely bandwidth wasteful. Feb 15 16:09:30 rest, xml-rpc, or soap would be less wasteful than xmpp Feb 15 16:09:48 ah I understand why so many people on the mailing list complain about the new SDK having a weird UI Feb 15 16:09:53 don't run the QVGA skins :) Feb 15 16:11:52 Krain: what's the waste? Feb 15 16:12:23 in the original docs xmpp was said to be faster and reliable Feb 15 16:13:00 xmpp, rest, xml-rpc, soap will all fall in the same category Feb 15 16:13:38 the new GTalk specs is talking about native binary protocol Feb 15 16:13:54 which is ok, but XMPP support must also be retained Feb 15 16:15:29 xmpp has a lot of overhead. remember we're dealing with a mobile device, and people pay for transfer by the kilobyte in many areas Feb 15 16:16:03 a gzip'd ascii stream is much preferable to a 10k xml request to send the text "in my room" Feb 15 16:17:53 i support Android innovating a faster high performing binary protocol Feb 15 16:18:20 but that's not an excuse to drop XMPP Feb 15 16:18:46 sushmu: can't say it was dropped, it never existed Feb 15 16:18:48 it's not about faster, it's about efficiency Feb 15 16:19:07 and yeah, they didn't really ever have xmpp anyway Feb 15 16:20:02 and take a loot at dims' link there, you can use the smack jars to use standard xmpp Feb 15 16:20:34 true Feb 15 16:20:46 but its not the same as native android support Feb 15 16:20:52 only problem is that I don't think you can implement a reciever doing that, ie would wake your app up when you get a message (unless you have always on service or something) Feb 15 16:21:55 GTalk is available.. If it supports an open standard like xmpp.. we can build twitter like service Feb 15 16:22:09 how cool is that? Feb 15 16:23:07 now i have to write the entire server part from scratch Feb 15 16:24:12 kwitcherbitchin. =) Feb 15 16:24:25 that must be german or something Feb 15 16:25:00 looks english to me :) Feb 15 16:43:07 sushmu, so write an xmpp thing for it Feb 15 16:46:06 davidw: my plan was to host a jabber server and broadcast Feb 15 17:38:02 re Feb 15 17:55:06 haha, just got an email from the "for dummies" publisher wanting me to write an android for dummies book Feb 15 17:55:56 you'd think they'd read my site and realize that I can't write Feb 15 17:58:39 zhobbs: some publishers don't care about that :) Feb 15 17:59:04 romainguy: any money in books? Feb 15 17:59:07 nope Feb 15 17:59:14 depends on what you call money Feb 15 17:59:18 hehe Feb 15 17:59:29 with my book I earned enough to buy a nice TV and a video game system :)) Feb 15 17:59:37 Nice Feb 15 17:59:50 compared to the time it takes to write a book, the pay is miserabl Feb 15 18:00:00 unless you're very very successful, which is hard on this market Feb 15 18:00:21 for instance, it pays a lot more to work as a independent tech writer/tech journalist Feb 15 18:00:25 I did it for years Feb 15 18:00:40 I earned as much money writing 2 articles for developer.apple.com than writing half of a book Feb 15 18:02:20 they don't want a programming book, they want a "how to use your phone" book Feb 15 18:02:50 ah, then it might be more interesting :) Feb 15 18:10:57 it's more about advertising for yourself Feb 15 18:11:23 zhobbs, isn't that more appropriate for the "for drooling morons" series? Feb 15 18:11:26 yeah, good resume builder also I suppose Feb 15 18:11:47 hehe, I was thinking "who buys a book to use a phone?" Feb 15 18:12:16 old people is all I can think of Feb 15 18:12:16 But I see like 5 books on how to use your iPod in the bookstore Feb 15 18:12:49 that's terrible Feb 15 18:13:46 another guy contacted me saying he's writing a programming book for android called "Hello Android", and that I should give him the site Feb 15 18:14:01 but he's let me keep posting on it if I wanted to :) Feb 15 18:14:06 he'd* Feb 15 18:16:37 ahhahah nice of him Feb 15 18:16:47 how does one get apps you write onto your phone and recognized ? Feb 15 18:17:11 we distribute the apk file Feb 15 18:17:33 eventually there will be package managers that will let users browse different package repos Feb 15 18:17:35 zhobbs: The opposite happened to me, somebody bought the .com domain that matched the title of my book and shortly before publication, he donated the domain to us :) Feb 15 18:17:53 nice of him Feb 15 18:17:59 yep! Feb 15 18:18:33 How does a person put an app he's written onto a phone so it runs ? Feb 15 18:18:59 right now using a command Feb 15 18:19:14 but eventually you'll be able to do it in the web browser or through a package management application Feb 15 18:19:42 a command on a cli ? Feb 15 18:19:56 yeah Feb 15 18:20:01 "adb push " Feb 15 18:20:01 is this documented in the help files ? Feb 15 18:20:10 Yeah, somewhere Feb 15 18:20:11 oh I see, thanks :) Feb 15 18:22:21 fgleich: actually, scratch that command, it's "adb install " Feb 15 18:22:28 zhobbs: adb install, isn't it? Feb 15 18:22:34 :) Feb 15 18:22:45 although most developers use the Eclipse plugin to do everything. Feb 15 18:22:51 or "adb push /data/app" Feb 15 18:30:10 I have eclipse with android plugin, so that would be able to do it all then ? Feb 15 18:30:40 thanks for all the answers Feb 15 18:30:59 fgleich: yep Feb 15 18:31:11 awesome ! Feb 15 18:31:15 might want to check out the tutorial to get started Feb 15 18:31:27 I certainly will Feb 15 18:31:31 thanks again Feb 15 18:31:43 http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html Feb 15 18:36:17 * jasta ponders if there's some way with the new SDK to avoid writing a custom list adapter just for the purpose of manipulating row data with out-of-band stuff like status or progress Feb 15 18:36:45 jasta: what do you mean? Feb 15 18:37:25 well, i have a list of server sources, and a "sync all" button. the typical list, when not doing anything, will show the sources, the last time they synced, and someb asic status info from the database. Feb 15 18:38:20 when you hit sync all, as each source starts doing something, its status will change to "Connecting...", "Synchronizing...", "Updating 1 of 1000...", etc. until finally "Done, last synchronized: now." Feb 15 18:38:28 you can definitely do that Feb 15 18:38:36 so, there is a mix of run-time information from the activity and service with actual cursor data from the database. Feb 15 18:38:44 however, given the way ListView is written, this will trigger a new layout everytime you change something Feb 15 18:39:00 previously, i extended the list adapter and a view that was placed at each row so i could have a lot more control over what goes where. Feb 15 18:39:19 romainguy: really? that's pretty bad. Feb 15 18:39:38 Would you recommend an alternative interface? Feb 15 18:40:20 jasta: The problem is that ListView supports items or arbitrary sizes, so whenever something changes inside an item, you need a full layout because it's the only way to guarantee everything has the right size and position Feb 15 18:40:42 well the full layout will not be that bad Feb 15 18:40:46 well, there won't be a scalability problem here; typical usage will have 1 source. Feb 15 18:40:49 so, 1 list item. Feb 15 18:40:54 yep Feb 15 18:40:56 oh and also Feb 15 18:41:05 when I say "full layout", I mean it will re-layout what you see on screen Feb 15 18:41:08 and that's all Feb 15 18:41:12 i know that ;) Feb 15 18:41:17 just to make sure :) Feb 15 18:41:27 ListView will perform the same with 1 or 1,000,000 items Feb 15 18:41:49 how can that be? the layout pass has to loop all children doesn't it? Feb 15 18:43:08 nope Feb 15 18:43:11 everything is virtualized Feb 15 18:43:27 ListView basically works with just enough children to fill the screen Feb 15 18:43:31 and recycle them as needed Feb 15 18:43:43 that's why it's important to make use of the convertView in Adapter.getView() Feb 15 18:43:57 Really? that's clever. Feb 15 18:44:00 yep Feb 15 18:44:11 and that's why we spend so much time working on ListView and GridView Feb 15 18:44:20 How does it behave, then, if I were to drastically alter the size of an entry just off screen? Feb 15 18:44:23 because they do an awful lot of work for the application to ensure nice performance :) Feb 15 18:44:37 does it just avoid the case entirely and not change the viewport at all? Feb 15 18:44:43 so, if you have 1,000,000 items of various heights, and you say setSelection(150,000) how does it calculate the scroll bar % without knowing the heights of the items? Feb 15 18:44:58 zhobbs: that's one of the issues we need to solve Feb 15 18:45:09 anyone know why setting the Blur_Behind flag on my activity's window causes the background to go solid black? (without the flag, its transparent, which is what its supposed to be) Feb 15 18:45:12 right now the scrollbar is based on the number of visible items against the total number of items Feb 15 18:45:19 so you might see it change size from time to time Feb 15 18:45:42 hmm, well, anyway, how would you recommend i approach this problem then? Feb 15 18:45:43 jasta: How does it behave, then, if I were to drastically alter the size of an entry just off screen? << when the adapter changes, ListView relayouts what it knows was on screen Feb 15 18:46:36 i can't see a graceful way to find a particular row by the Cursor _id and inject some artbirary changes to one of the views being displayed at that row. Feb 15 18:47:18 i mean, i know how to do it with a custom adapter and row view. Feb 15 18:47:33 jasta: the adapter should just say the data has changed Feb 15 18:47:43 and then in getView() you should update it appropriately Feb 15 18:47:51 the next SDK will help a little more Feb 15 18:47:56 since it will provide a nice scroll listener Feb 15 18:48:11 that you will be able to use to track what positions from the adapters are currently shown on screen Feb 15 18:48:23 But the point here is that the service will notify the activity that a specific source is being worked on, and only that sources status should be updated. Feb 15 18:48:34 So I would need a way to find which row is appropriate. Feb 15 18:49:03 based on the _id column in the Cursor, of course. Feb 15 18:49:32 I remember this being a real problem with the last SDK, which required me to ultimately create my own mapping of _id to row views. Feb 15 19:00:31 maybe i still have to. Feb 15 19:07:48 hi all Feb 15 19:08:21 hello Feb 15 19:08:26 Someone here know where could I find the kernel that ARM used on OMAP850 in Barcelona ? Feb 15 19:08:32 jasta: hi Feb 15 19:08:50 the linux kernel source code that Android runs is publicly available on android's google code site. Feb 15 19:09:56 jasta: mmm is there a list of the supported proc and arch ? Feb 15 19:10:34 presumably, Android's modifications are portable. Feb 15 19:11:01 what specifically are you interested in? Feb 15 19:11:34 if it's to run Android on some existing platform, you will find that the greatest hurdle is not in the kernel, but rather in the software stack which is all closed source. Feb 15 19:12:02 jasta: I have my mobile that use an OMAP850 ... it has Win Mobile ... I'm using an hacked kernel to start linux ... and it works ... but it's to difficult to support my LCD cause Feb 15 19:12:11 the code is smoggy Feb 15 19:12:32 so I need a better kernel to add the support for my mobile Feb 15 19:12:52 well, the LCD driver that Android provides may be for a device that you do not have. Feb 15 19:13:02 the stuff is that I need support for OMAP and the ufficial kernel doesn't support it Feb 15 19:13:22 then you will be able to merge the changes you are interested in from Android's kernel. Feb 15 19:13:29 but you should already know that. Feb 15 19:13:34 jasta: of course ... I had found the params dumping the registers in WinME Feb 15 19:13:44 again, you will not be able to run the Android stack on your phone though. Feb 15 19:15:00 jasta: I'd like to start with thew modified linux kernel for OMAP850 ... later I will work on the android stuff Feb 15 19:15:55 jasta: I can't find the source of the kernel in android website ... and I think is ARM stuff Feb 15 19:15:57 again, i will caution you that since the Android stack is closed source, you will have no chance of making it work on any platform not binary compatible with the ARMv5 target. Feb 15 19:16:10 aLeSD: The source is there. It is on their google code page. Feb 15 19:17:54 jasta : ARM926EJ-S V5 architecture up to 200 MHz Feb 15 19:18:46 well, you've got a lot of work ahead of you, sir. Feb 15 19:18:57 have you researched whether the radio in your phone has a supported Linux kernel driver? Feb 15 19:19:01 through Android or otherwise? Feb 15 19:19:17 oh i suppose the OMAP processor is a unified CPU and wireless radio, so it would be. Feb 15 19:27:43 jasta: it's a multimedia proc ... it has all inside ... is it the right answer ? :) I'm sorry for my english Feb 15 19:28:12 jasta it has ARMv5TEJ Feb 15 19:28:22 what phone is this? Feb 15 19:28:45 so android should work on it ... but this isn't my problem now ... not the first :D Feb 15 19:29:29 jasta HP ipaq 514 Feb 15 19:29:50 I only hope to have the usb working Feb 15 19:30:04 with the other kernel I have it Feb 15 19:30:20 unfortunately, even if you get this working, the Android UI in the newest SDK is designed with single purpose for a HVGA touch screen device Feb 15 19:30:40 it doesn't work very well on this screen size :) Feb 15 19:31:12 people will make it work on it Feb 15 19:31:26 well, unlikely, since Android is so closed source now ;) Feb 15 19:31:51 i'm not trying to discourage you, i'm just being practical :) Feb 15 19:38:48 ... well .. now is not forever Feb 15 19:38:51 I will show u a movie on android and OMAP850 Feb 15 19:39:03 i look forward to it Feb 15 19:39:06 jasta sorry ... my internet connection isn't good Feb 15 19:39:10 jasta ... the hardest part is support the plantform on the linux kernel Feb 15 19:39:17 in the mean time, i got my code working. Feb 15 19:41:05 :) Feb 15 20:02:25 hehe, i've listened to the same song on repeat for the past 30 minutes i think. Feb 15 20:02:33 in the zone Feb 15 20:02:44 barely even noticed, although i do love this song Feb 15 20:02:58 i played hookey today, coding at home :) Feb 15 20:11:48 boo, my wireless keyboard crapped out Feb 15 20:12:07 this looks pretty nice: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/samsungs-new-touchwiz-ui-gets-previewed-on-video/ Feb 15 20:12:56 i'm very glad that Samsung is part of the OHA, actually. they are awesome. Feb 15 20:19:56 * jasta sets his music back up; puts Helio Sequence - Captive Mind on repeat again :) Feb 15 20:21:54 playing it on the phone? :D Feb 15 20:22:10 not just yet, although i could do it manually with my system so far :) Feb 15 20:22:13 just no UI for that Feb 15 20:22:27 i could attach to the ContentService and downlaod it to the SD card with just a few lines of code :) Feb 15 20:23:27 :) Feb 15 20:24:19 right now i'm actually just rounding out some rough edges, introducing error logging in the service and exposing it to the user and stuff Feb 15 20:25:37 almost done with your app? Feb 15 20:26:04 no, certainly not. Feb 15 20:26:44 my application has 3 major components to submit for the challenge: the synchronization client and service, the server (written in C), and the music player. Feb 15 20:27:03 the first two are very far along. the music player hasn't even been started yet. Feb 15 20:27:25 so you can submit non-apk apps? Feb 15 20:27:46 you don't submit the server component Feb 15 20:28:06 Not really. I have been advised to both distribute my server component to compile and install, but that I should also provide a hosted dummy server for the judges to attach to. Feb 15 20:28:08 it just better be up and running when the judges test it =) Feb 15 20:28:24 probably a fake server running locally on the phone may be best Feb 15 20:28:50 I am hoping to write a short plea in my submission to ask that if the public server is down to try to install the one I provide. Feb 15 20:29:17 just keep it up :) Feb 15 20:29:26 It's not like it's hard, and they are giving away $25K after all, perhaps they should apply a little bit of grace. Feb 15 20:29:56 zhobbs: Well that's my plan :) Feb 15 20:30:17 What is cool, though, is that I will be able to have log activity showing me when my submission is being judged ;) Feb 15 20:30:29 that's true Feb 15 20:30:39 that's pretty cool Feb 15 20:31:04 and roughly what they're doing with it. Feb 15 20:31:14 the server will be notified by each sync request, and each song download. Feb 15 20:31:35 nice nice Feb 15 20:31:53 of course, i will be very confused if i don't win, and there's never any log activity. Feb 15 20:32:06 yeah, then you know it's a sham Feb 15 20:32:22 so i'd expect you to go fully public with it Feb 15 20:32:46 of course, they could claim they didn't use my public server, and instead compiled their own from the sources i provided. Feb 15 20:33:25 i want to submit the server as part of this, just in case the judges are not total stiffs and want to actually try out my app as it was intended. Feb 15 20:34:00 the dummy server is just going to copy my music collection's meta data and replace every song with a looped recording. that way, no copyright is violated. Feb 15 20:34:17 but at the same time, BFD ya know. that wouldn't be a very exciting app :) Feb 15 20:34:20 jasta: of course, i will be very confused if i don't win, and there's never any log activity. << and if you win and there's no activity? Feb 15 20:34:40 then who cares :) Feb 15 20:34:47 exactly :) Feb 15 20:35:44 confused all the way to the bank Feb 15 20:36:01 i will also be able to determine if the app is being tested in the emulator or on a real phone. Feb 15 20:36:28 well, maybe not. the prototypes probably just use Wi-FI. Feb 15 20:36:37 Fi, i mean ;) Feb 15 20:38:04 salut loic Feb 15 20:38:22 * jasta raises an eyebrow Feb 15 20:47:07 jasta: loic is French Feb 15 20:47:25 yeah, i figured. Feb 15 20:49:17 talking about me? :) Feb 15 20:49:45 :) Feb 15 20:49:53 I misread your quit message Feb 15 20:49:57 I thought you were joining ^^ Feb 15 20:50:01 << tired Feb 15 20:50:35 i'm too :) Feb 15 20:51:13 working on an android project... for school Feb 15 20:51:36 loic-pointgphone: what school? Feb 15 20:53:08 master in computer science (embedded systems) Feb 15 20:53:40 where? Feb 15 20:53:43 in strasbourg :) Feb 15 20:53:48 what school? :) Feb 15 20:53:56 french people, ugh :) Feb 15 20:53:58 or university Feb 15 20:54:03 "Universit� Louis Pasteur" Feb 15 20:54:10 jasta: let us bond :p Feb 15 20:54:19 french people talking in english ! Feb 15 20:54:23 loic-pointgphone: is Android part of the program? Feb 15 20:54:50 no but we had to chose a project, I chosed Android :) Feb 15 20:56:07 I guess we have to wait a bit before Android becomes part of the program Feb 15 20:58:45 but i'm going to present my project in front of the university director, maybe it will convince him to open an Android course :) Feb 15 21:00:59 whats your project? Feb 15 21:01:36 presenting Android :> Feb 15 21:03:32 already wrote ~40 pages Feb 15 21:03:44 Will you be loading a browser and showing them the YouTube videos? :) Feb 15 21:04:31 exactly ! Feb 15 21:04:48 Sounds cake. Feb 15 21:07:41 loic-pointgphone: I wish they taught Android at my former school too Feb 15 21:07:56 Getting a bit pretentious, aren't you guys? :) Feb 15 21:08:17 It's only months old, has little source code available, and no commercially available handsets. Feb 15 21:08:33 jasta: The point is not about learning Android itself Feb 15 21:08:37 It's not exactly a hobbyists dream yet. Feb 15 21:08:51 jasta: it's more about learning about developping for embedded system Feb 15 21:09:13 I understand that, but how is Android a good case study? None of the development process has been exposed outside of Google. Feb 15 21:09:24 that's why I'm just saying "I wish" Feb 15 21:10:46 and compared to what they made me do, it'd be a lot better, even in the current state ^^ Feb 15 21:11:13 Did you have a focus on embedded systems in college? Feb 15 21:11:23 nope Feb 15 21:11:27 my masters was very generic Feb 15 21:11:34 Well, it was in computer science. Feb 15 21:11:38 but we did embedded network programming on a real-time OS with not TCP/IP stack... we had to simulate network with messages and mailboxes... Feb 15 21:12:58 simulate network, as in, you did network programming without ever attaching a real network? Feb 15 21:13:10 my teachers seem to be very interested in the platform so they were totally ok with the project Feb 15 21:13:17 yes and as in we didn't even use a network API Feb 15 21:13:25 that sounds like a waste of energy Feb 15 21:13:48 that's school :) Feb 15 21:14:27 good thing they let you offset yourself with drugs, alcohol, and sex. Feb 15 21:14:47 by the way I read MIT is going to open an android course later this year Feb 15 21:14:51 true Feb 15 21:15:15 loic-pointgphone: Yeah, I am just so surprised by that. It's such a leap of faith. Feb 15 21:16:39 * jasta totally lost his place Feb 15 21:16:43 i had no idea which system i was working on Feb 15 21:16:47 have* Feb 15 21:32:48 jasta, maybe morrildl bribed the professors Feb 15 21:33:09 he offered to let them visit california in winter or something Feb 15 21:34:26 who? Feb 15 21:34:28 what? Feb 15 21:34:30 professors? Feb 15 21:35:03 davidw: ha, no that's Rich Miner's doing Feb 15 21:35:14 he's in the Cambridge office, so he's practically next door I guess Feb 15 21:36:30 alright here goes, testing the error reporting mechanism that my service has now Feb 15 21:37:01 and then, if it works, i'll make a sandwich. Feb 15 21:37:32 oh jeez, threw an exception right away. oh well, i'm hungry Feb 15 21:46:53 E/CursorWindow( 781): Bad request for field slot 0,-1. numRows = 1, numColumns = 4 Feb 15 21:46:58 hmm, what the hell does that mean? Feb 15 21:49:51 don't exist yet ? Feb 15 21:49:57 or not there ? Feb 15 21:50:46 IRobot mother robot killed em all Feb 15 21:53:48 oh that's fuckin stupid Feb 15 21:54:15 if you use a projection map to add tables names for joins then you have to specifically alias the columns back to their original name Feb 15 21:54:45 so like map.put(Foo, "f." + Foo + " AS " + Foo); Feb 15 21:55:11 otherwise you can't use getColumnIndex(Foo) because it won't find the field "f." + Foo. Feb 15 21:55:43 is anyone following the google guidelines for optimized small code? Feb 15 21:56:02 Not all of them, no. Feb 15 21:56:09 f00f-: I do :) Feb 15 21:57:21 oh that's good news :) Feb 15 21:57:28 i wonder if our apps will be judged on performance Feb 15 21:57:43 honestly, i was execting a more responsive UI on the emulator Feb 15 21:57:51 the emulator is a difficult story Feb 15 21:57:52 It is not part of the criteria officially, but I'm sure that it will contribute. Feb 15 21:58:01 it highly depends on what machine it runs on Feb 15 21:58:04 f00f-: read somewhere that on the phones the ui is more responsive Feb 15 21:58:14 for instance on my MacBook Pro and my MacPro it's very responsive, more so than actual hardware Feb 15 21:58:40 but we do a lot of performance work to make sure that things run nicely on typical phone hardware Feb 15 21:58:41 i know that linux perf >> windows perf Feb 15 21:59:00 ok cool, emulators sometimes lie i've noticed Feb 15 21:59:06 the two things I can really put emphasize on are: Feb 15 21:59:14 - avoid numerous memory allocations Feb 15 21:59:24 - in adapters, reuse the convertView in getView Feb 15 22:00:25 good point, i think i'm ignoring convertView right now Feb 15 22:00:44 to give you an idea Feb 15 22:01:02 on a particular piece of hardware, I've been able to animate a ListView scrolling at 60 fps recently Feb 15 22:01:17 this number went down to 12 fps with an application that was not reusing convertView correctly Feb 15 22:01:35 because it ended up churning memory and doing a lot of work in getView() through XML inflation, etc. Feb 15 22:02:30 right, will need to fix that Feb 15 23:59:44 Hi all! I am particularly a new start and have been trying to retrieve sms messages from the SIM. The documentation lists the ISms interface for this as described in http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/package-summary.html . Can someone point me to how I can "fetch" this interface as given in the sample method? Feb 16 00:22:05 duvy: that looks like it might be more for the phone book Feb 16 00:22:13 not sure if sms messages are currently stored anywhere Feb 16 00:33:17 they arent. Feb 16 00:33:40 the platform probably never will, some SMS application will. Feb 16 00:33:54 then you'll find them in a contentprovider Feb 16 00:34:44 jasta: you still jamming out to the same song? Feb 16 00:35:25 no, i have finally changed it Feb 16 00:35:44 now im listening to MGMT - Kids on repeat Feb 16 00:35:53 hehe Feb 16 00:36:42 well...I guess it's about time to start porting my app to m5 Feb 16 00:37:26 shouldn't be too bad.. Feb 16 00:37:28 hehe Feb 16 00:37:32 i've already ported two apps ;) Feb 16 00:38:01 I did 4 of the examples on my site, but been busy since Feb 16 00:38:09 ah so jasta is increasing his odds by submitting multiple apps :) Feb 16 00:38:17 f00f-: No, I'm not. Feb 16 00:38:33 I'm going to have lots of neglected eggs in lots of different baskets :) Feb 16 00:38:34 I have an RSS reader in the public domain currently. I am not intending to submit it, however. Feb 16 00:38:52 hehe Feb 16 00:39:03 http://android-rss.googlecode.com, and it currently does run on M5. The UI could use more updating, though. Feb 16 00:39:19 My ADC project is not available publicly yet, however. Feb 16 00:39:24 That will come after round 1 is over. Feb 16 00:39:38 zhobbs, Thanks. The sms messages are stored in the SIM phone book. Feb 16 00:41:29 "The following code snippet demonstrates a static method to retrieve the ISimSms interface from Android:" and they list that method. I am not sure where that will go in the code so that I can use the iSms interface. Feb 16 00:44:58 duvy: where you see that? Feb 16 00:45:29 zhobbs, http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/telephony/gsm/ISms.html Feb 16 00:46:26 and i want to use getAllMessagesFromSimEf() in particular. Feb 16 00:47:43 that function returns an object that you can use gelAllMessagesFromSimEf() Feb 16 00:48:31 damn, wonder why bundle lost putStringArray Feb 16 00:49:19 I have imported the package android.telephony.gsm.* but when I try to implement the interface while defining the class (by giving - implements iSms), it cannot resolve the type Feb 16 00:50:12 and I am not sure where that method to "pull" the interface from android is to be written. (along with the meaning of "retrieve the interface") Feb 16 00:50:13