**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 02 10:59:57 2008
Mar 02 11:14:38 <acsia> has anyone used the IDL ?
Mar 02 11:17:42 <acsia> I guess I ll wait til the states gets online...
Mar 02 11:29:22 <mypapit> w00f w00f!
Mar 02 11:42:54 <chaosvoyager> IDL? No.
Mar 02 11:51:10 <acsia> android description language for inter process communication
Mar 02 11:51:41 <acsia> i will probably need it so I am wondering if anybody has played with it yet
Mar 02 11:53:21 <chaosvoyager> I'm under the impression that it's still buggy as hell, and to be honest I REALLY hope they replace it with something else before Android is released anyway.
Mar 02 11:54:20 <acsia> how do you know?
Mar 02 11:55:20 <chaosvoyager> Android developer group forum.
Mar 02 11:56:19 <acsia> arf
Mar 02 11:56:25 <acsia> should I or should I not
Mar 02 11:56:57 <chaosvoyager> At this point, if you want inter-process communication, you have to.
Mar 02 11:58:33 <chaosvoyager> Ypou should be safe if you're just sending over ints and strings. It's when you attempt to send over more complicated Parcels that the trouble begins. But as I said, haven't actually used it.
Mar 02 12:00:20 <chaosvoyager> anddev.org is usually a good site for this kind of information.
Mar 02 12:02:55 <acsia> I ll need to read it up
Mar 02 12:03:14 <acsia> I feared the response
Mar 02 12:03:26 <acsia> I don t want to spend endless night again
Mar 02 12:03:32 <acsia> and then change design
Mar 02 12:03:53 <chaosvoyager> I  know what you mean.
Mar 02 14:34:01 <acsia> can you do Class instantiation with the android sdk?
Mar 02 14:34:18 <acsia> like         aBar = (Bar) Class.forName(barClassName).newInstance();
Mar 02 14:38:22 <davidw> acsia, yes
Mar 02 15:19:54 <davidw> hrm hrm hrm hrm hrm hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Mar 02 15:34:59 <acsia> is that the sound of a motorcycle?
Mar 02 15:55:06 <davidw> it's me thinking
Mar 02 16:11:40 <Lede> hello
Mar 02 16:12:45 <davidw> hi
Mar 02 16:20:02 <chomchom> f
Mar 02 16:21:40 <chomchom> f
Mar 02 16:21:57 <chomchom> whoops
Mar 02 16:22:21 <chomchom> was just doing searches through my irc logs! hence the f's
Mar 02 16:22:39 <chomchom> Hello everyone! I'm just back from a nice skiing holiday
Mar 02 16:23:22 <chomchom> Hope everyone has been hard at work on their applications
Mar 02 16:45:52 <acsia> is it possible from application A to load a class from application B with loadClass?
Mar 02 16:51:26 <davidw> acsia, my guess is: probably not
Mar 02 17:02:24 <davidw> dammit
Mar 02 17:02:38 <davidw> it uses the package as a unique identifier:-/
Mar 02 19:07:41 <jasta> davidw: yeah, isn't that annoying?
Mar 02 19:10:03 <davidw> very much so
Mar 02 19:10:38 <davidw> On J2ME (sorry, Java ME), you can just change a few things and you have a new app.  This is very useful for Hecl
Mar 02 19:11:02 <jasta> also, there is a goofy "feature" that causes apk files with different filenames but from the same java package scope to not be installable.
Mar 02 19:11:08 <jasta> the stack just ignores it
Mar 02 19:14:12 <davidw> yeah... I'm fooling around with that right now
Mar 02 19:14:20 <davidw> you have to completely change the package
Mar 02 19:17:55 <davidw> wow....got it to work finally
Mar 02 19:18:05 <jasta> yeah, it's especially lame because this way you can't version your fucking apk files.
Mar 02 19:18:20 <jasta> foo-0.0.2.apk will not replace foo-0.0.1.apk when installed.  very bad ;)
Mar 02 19:19:21 <zhobbs> yeah, that'll need to change
Mar 02 19:25:09 <romainguy_> remember it's just a pre-alpha version of a 1.0 platform :)
Mar 02 19:30:48 <jasta> it'll probably be like all the google apps.  Android BETA until 2010 :)
Mar 02 19:46:47 <chomchom> I have a question about the UI threading. As far as I have seen all of the threading to be done on the GUI has been done within each actual activities class. I have been trying to move as much functionality as possible out of my activity classes and instead call a controller. Is it preferable to actually have the code for those threading calls within the implementing Actions class or move it into a controller and use the
Mar 02 19:46:47 <chomchom>  UIThreadUtilities.runOnUIThread() method?
Mar 02 19:48:44 <romainguy_> It does not matter in which class the code lives
Mar 02 19:48:53 <romainguy_> As long as it is executed on the UI thread
Mar 02 19:49:01 <romainguy_> if you don't spawn threads, you have nothing to do
Mar 02 19:49:29 <chomchom> cool thats fine then.
Mar 02 19:59:31 <jasta> I see this a lot :)
Mar 02 20:00:14 <jasta> chomchom: A thread of execution is merely analogous to a person walking a path.  The code is the path, but any person can walk any path should you schedule them to do so.
Mar 02 20:02:13 <jasta> UIThreadUtilities in this sense is unusual.  Programs don't normally offer a way to detect what thread is running since they ought to know that by how the thread was scheduled.
Mar 02 20:02:39 <chomchom> Unless you are doing eclipse RCP development
Mar 02 20:02:53 <chomchom> which also has a ui thread access thing
Mar 02 20:02:59 <romainguy_> Unless you are doing Swing development
Mar 02 20:03:01 <chomchom> but its called a UIJob
Mar 02 20:03:15 <romainguy_> but it's called SwingUtilities
Mar 02 20:03:17 <jasta> chomchom: Most UI toolkits have a single UI thread.
Mar 02 20:03:30 <jasta> For Linux, even X itself is not thread-safe.
Mar 02 20:03:47 <romainguy_> writing a thread-safe UI toolkit is both very hard and very inefficient
Mar 02 20:04:07 <jasta> Still, offering utilities to determine the running thread is merely a convenience to guard against sloppy programming.
Mar 02 20:04:48 <romainguy_> jasta: and to avoid having a Handler around
Mar 02 20:04:57 <chomchom> Well I guess it must just be down to my inexperience in UI toolkits, will have to look for some recommended resources
Mar 02 20:05:05 <romainguy_> it has nothing to do with sloppy programming
Mar 02 20:06:07 <jasta> chomchom: It is perhaps more to your inexperience with threading.
Mar 02 20:06:25 <chomchom> maybe indeed
Mar 02 20:07:06 <jasta> The UI model is actually one of the simplest threading models to adhere to.  The rule is simple: manipulation of the UI happens in just one thread, and it's the first thread of execution your program is given.
Mar 02 20:07:41 <romainguy_> "and it's the first thread of execution your program is given." << not necessarily :)
Mar 02 20:07:44 <romainguy_> for instance in Swing
Mar 02 20:08:07 <jasta> Really?  I thought that was so common as to be considered a rule?
Mar 02 20:08:21 <chomchom> Ah, so if I name the thread I can find it in the scheduler?
Mar 02 20:08:38 <jasta> Oh well now that I think about it I suppose you're right.  It's wherever you scheduled the event loop :)
Mar 02 20:09:43 <jasta> chomchom: There is no need to name the thread at all in Android.  Android, as most UI toolkits do, offer a simple way to schedule code to run in the UI thread using an event loop.
Mar 02 20:10:41 <jasta> That is, the UI thread is forever consuming events and responding to them.  Firing callbacks for user input like button clicks, keyboard input, etc, handling drawing/layout updates, and whatever else it is designed to do.
Mar 02 20:11:13 <jasta> That includes running your scheduled code.  In Android, your interface to schedule into that event loop is through a Handler, which need only be constructed in the UI thread.
Mar 02 20:11:28 <jasta> Then, it is a thread-safe handle to schedule events in any thread.
Mar 02 20:12:03 <jasta> The common usage is documented somewhere in Android's documentation.  Can't remember where exactly :)
Mar 02 20:13:59 <acsia> what would you use if you want to have a textView with paragraph styling?
Mar 02 20:14:13 <acsia> TextView has not enought options IMO
Mar 02 20:14:30 <jasta> what do you mean paragraph styling?
Mar 02 20:14:40 <zhobbs> indentation and stuff?
Mar 02 20:14:50 <acsia> more or less, a bit like html
Mar 02 20:15:04 <jasta> Oh.  I would recommend a WebView but they are so heavy right now
Mar 02 20:15:08 <zhobbs> can you indent with \t ?
Mar 02 20:15:27 <acsia> yes I used webView but as you say it is heavy and just doesn't seem right
Mar 02 20:16:08 <acsia> there is a new class called Html
Mar 02 20:16:16 <jasta> it might be most sensible to extend TextView if it truly doesn't offer a way to do this
Mar 02 20:16:16 <acsia> does not seem to be implemented thought
Mar 02 20:16:33 <jasta> but that could be an enormous task
Mar 02 20:16:42 <zhobbs> yeah, could extend textview and format the text in there
Mar 02 20:16:49 <acsia> yes, I just want an about page/view
Mar 02 20:17:06 <acsia> a bit to much to extend TextView ;)
Mar 02 20:17:08 <jasta> you realize of course that you could do that with just multiple textviews instead, yeah?
Mar 02 20:17:25 <acsia> but again, could add it to my utility package
Mar 02 20:17:46 <acsia> hum, I actually did not think about that...
Mar 02 20:17:49 <zhobbs> I have a textview with multiple paragraphs and I just use \n\n and it looks fine
Mar 02 20:18:12 <acsia> I want a text-align: justify
Mar 02 20:18:18 <acsia> so it looks square
Mar 02 20:18:41 <zhobbs> yeah, I was thinking justify would be good also
Mar 02 20:19:02 <acsia> o well not really important, was just wondering if there were something that I did not see in the doc
Mar 02 20:19:04 <jasta> i'm gonna try to release my alphabet list widget today :)
Mar 02 20:19:20 <jasta> it works perfectly.
Mar 02 20:19:33 <jasta> and i can't wait for setSelection() to have a fling animation associated with it.
Mar 02 20:20:45 <zhobbs> jasta: license?
Mar 02 20:20:48 <jasta> GPL
Mar 02 20:21:08 <jasta> well, maybe a BSD license for this particular thing.
Mar 02 20:21:11 <jasta> the rest of my code of course is GPL
Mar 02 20:21:43 <jasta> is of course*
Mar 02 20:22:07 <zhobbs> yeah
Mar 02 20:22:17 <jasta> i'm mostly just hoping someone will help me improve it a bit aesthetically
Mar 02 20:22:28 <jasta> and maybe improve precision a bit for touch-screen devices
Mar 02 20:22:33 <jasta> so it can react to more fudged input
Mar 02 20:22:40 <jasta> right now i suspect it's very hard to operate with your finger
Mar 02 20:31:18 <jasta> sweet, android provides a UNICODE collator for SQLite3
Mar 02 20:35:51 <zhobbs> also would be nice to be able to format specific words in a TextView somehow
Mar 02 20:36:09 <jasta> you sort of can with resources
Mar 02 20:37:49 <zhobbs> what you mean?
Mar 02 20:39:57 <jasta> CharSequence can hold formatting
Mar 02 20:40:10 <jasta> look at the ApiDemos content/StyledText.java
Mar 02 20:40:26 <zhobbs> ok, thanks
Mar 02 20:41:40 <jasta> seems somewhat limited, but still
Mar 02 20:42:14 <zhobbs> ahh, simple as <b>, <i>, etc
Mar 02 20:42:40 <jasta> but remember that a String will lose that formatting.
Mar 02 20:42:52 <zhobbs> hmm...
Mar 02 20:43:04 <jasta> CharSequence seems to have some magic, I don't know
Mar 02 20:44:42 <kurzum> hmm im wondering if theres some java bb code lib out there
Mar 02 20:45:10 <kurzum> which converts bb code into html
Mar 02 20:45:10 <jasta> that could be somewhat useful
Mar 02 20:46:14 <kurzum> https://javabbcode.dev.java.net/ :)
Mar 02 20:57:19 <plusminus> new AndNav! version. Now recalculates the route being "off-route" for X seconds.
Mar 02 20:57:22 <plusminus> Flash-Video: http://www.anddev.org/images/tut/map/andnav/screencast.htm
Mar 02 20:57:32 <plusminus> Any feedback is appreciated
Mar 02 20:57:34 <plusminus> :)
Mar 02 20:58:06 <plusminus> (Video is 4 MBytes)
Mar 02 21:00:52 <zhobbs> pretty cool
Mar 02 21:03:11 <plusminus> thx :)
Mar 02 21:03:51 <jasta> a skateboarding android?
Mar 02 21:03:53 <plusminus> i'd love to test this in real...
Mar 02 21:03:54 <plusminus> ^^
Mar 02 21:04:10 <jasta> why is the video so clunky?
Mar 02 21:04:23 <plusminus> looking up "clunky"...
Mar 02 21:04:34 <jasta> the framerate is very low
Mar 02 21:04:52 <plusminus> Its just a series of screenshots
Mar 02 21:05:09 <plusminus> created with "wink"
Mar 02 21:05:20 <plusminus> btw: skateboard-droid: http://code.google.com/android/goodies/wallpaper/android-wallpaper6_1024x768.jpg
Mar 02 21:05:36 <jasta> lol awesome, google produced that!?
Mar 02 21:05:50 <plusminus> the skateboarder ? yes
Mar 02 21:05:58 <plusminus> http://code.google.com/android/goodies/index.html
Mar 02 21:07:19 <plusminus> damn I love .svg graphics. Especially inkscape. I just could extract the vectors of the Boarding-Droid with I click and the modify it ...
Mar 02 21:07:28 <romainguy_> you love inkscape?
Mar 02 21:08:03 <plusminus> sometimes the selection is shitty, but imo it is basically pretty good
Mar 02 21:08:22 <plusminus> You know a better tool ?
Mar 02 21:08:24 <romainguy_> have you tried potrace?
Mar 02 21:08:34 <plusminus> I'll have a look...
Mar 02 21:08:45 <romainguy_> ah apparently Inkscape uses potrace
Mar 02 21:08:47 <romainguy_> nevermind :)
Mar 02 21:08:59 <romainguy_> so then you can try autotrace
Mar 02 21:09:05 * davidw looks at the logo...hrm....  it's ok, but not a home run, IMO
Mar 02 21:09:29 <davidw> "I AM MARVIN THE MOBILE GARBAGE CAN"
Mar 02 21:09:31 <jasta> i can't believe google made a crummy skateboarding android
Mar 02 21:09:32 <jasta> that is so great
Mar 02 21:09:34 <plusminus> davidw: which logo ?
Mar 02 21:09:51 <davidw> the android one
Mar 02 21:10:22 * romainguy_ is wearing a skateboarding android tshirt right now ^^
Mar 02 21:10:32 <jasta> oh my god i want that so bad
Mar 02 21:10:40 <jasta> i mean, not *YOUR* t-shirt, that would be creepy
Mar 02 21:10:42 <plusminus> :( I want such a shirt too
Mar 02 21:10:49 <plusminus> ^^
Mar 02 21:10:51 <davidw> I want a skateboarding android
Mar 02 21:11:00 <plusminus> romainguy_: you should be sellign them ^^
Mar 02 21:11:04 <davidw> I think that would  be slightly cooler than a shirt!
Mar 02 21:11:05 <romainguy_> lol
Mar 02 21:11:11 <plusminus> or make more codedays...
Mar 02 21:11:16 <plusminus> davidw:
Mar 02 21:11:19 <plusminus> lol
Mar 02 21:15:05 <zhobbs> you should be able to cash in X ammount of helpful posts on android-developers for a t-shirt
Mar 02 21:15:43 <plusminus> like ~200 :P ...
Mar 02 21:16:18 <jasta> helpful?  Awwww! :)
Mar 02 21:17:14 <zhobbs> haha, nothing wrong with being helpful jasta
Mar 02 21:17:29 <jasta> i'm just saying i have a lot of posts, but perhaps not a lot of helpful posts ;)
Mar 02 21:17:39 <jasta> and i really want a skateboarding android t-shit
Mar 02 21:17:41 <jasta> t-shirt*
Mar 02 21:35:33 <jasta> alright, time to correctly implement onmeasure and onlayout for this custom widget of mine
Mar 02 21:35:43 <romainguy_> good luck :)
Mar 02 21:37:09 <jasta> my only concern is how to adjust the size of the alphabet labels accordingly.  how does fontsize relate to the height of the drawn letters?
Mar 02 21:38:00 <jasta> i can easily calculate the size that each label must be, but i'm not sure how to select a font size from that that will ensure it fits nicely.
Mar 02 21:40:05 <jasta> i suppose i could just do something really awful like make a guess and loop onMeasure until I get a size i like :)
Mar 02 21:40:31 <plusminus> anyone knows, whether on the CeBit (Germany) there will also be Android Devices?
Mar 02 21:42:52 <duey> there is no info on that
Mar 02 21:47:28 <plusminus> OHA Members: HTC, Motorola, T-Mobile
Mar 02 21:47:39 <plusminus> we'll see :)
Mar 02 22:11:56 <f00f-> how do i make a TextView span its width, but be 'constrained' between two other views in a RelativeLayout?
Mar 02 22:12:20 <f00f-> like if the text is too much to fit, i've set scrollHorizontally to true
Mar 02 22:12:22 <jasta> f00f-: you can use a linearlayout for that, and set the "contrained" widget's weight property to 1 (or anything higher)
Mar 02 22:12:57 <jasta> <LinearLayout> <TextView/> <TextView layout_width="0px" layout_weight="1"/> <TextView/> </LinearLayout>
Mar 02 22:13:11 <f00f-> is there a way to do it with relative?
Mar 02 22:13:17 <jasta> by that i mean you do not need to use a relativelayout at all.
Mar 02 22:13:25 <jasta> f00f-: Yes, it will work the same in a relativelayout i believe.
Mar 02 22:13:45 <jasta> let me confirm though, hang on
Mar 02 22:14:00 <jasta> i am probably wrong.  relativelayout will not do it.
Mar 02 22:14:05 <f00f-> i don't see a weight or constrained property :(
Mar 02 22:14:16 <jasta> that said, a similar effect can be found by aligning the widgets to the left and right with alignRight/Left...
Mar 02 22:15:06 <jasta> though it is more cumbersome for sure.
Mar 02 22:15:21 <jasta> i did it this way once with a relativelayout a long time ago before i realized you could just use a linearlayout
Mar 02 22:16:18 <jasta> i seem ot have used some strange combination of POSITION_TO_LEFT/RIGHT and ALIGN_WITH_PARENT_LEFT/RIGHT.
Mar 02 22:16:37 <f00f-> hmm okay let me see
Mar 02 22:16:52 <jasta> but i strongly recommend looking at a linearlayout and just nesting some other type of layout as necessary
Mar 02 22:21:24 <dragor43> yesterday i asked about sending data back to the calling activity without having to close the child activity... someone said to use setResult(), however that didn't work for me
Mar 02 22:21:34 <jasta> then you didnt use it right
Mar 02 22:21:50 <jasta> did you use startSubActivity?
Mar 02 22:21:54 <dragor43> yep
Mar 02 22:22:10 <dragor43> and in the sub activity I called setResult() and didn't call finish();
Mar 02 22:22:13 <jasta> actually i dont know that to be true tha setResult has any effect without finish
Mar 02 22:22:19 <dragor43> yeah...
Mar 02 22:22:22 <dragor43> it doesn't.
Mar 02 22:22:26 <jasta> try calling finish() after setResult just to make sure that your setup is correct
Mar 02 22:25:47 <dragor43> yeah, when i call finish() it hits onActivityResult with the correct requestCode, data in the bundle etc.
Mar 02 22:26:02 <jasta> then i don't know ;)
Mar 02 22:26:06 <dragor43> but calling setResult() without calling finish() doesn't do anything.
Mar 02 22:26:07 <dragor43> k
Mar 02 22:26:55 <dragor43> so.. sorta related question
Mar 02 22:28:32 <dragor43> I'm going back in my code and thinking about the correct way of passing data from a child activity to the parent activity
Mar 02 22:29:02 <dragor43> Have you guys had success with using Parcelable to serialize the objects and send them back, or are you using Strings and primitive data types in the Bundle to pass back data?
Mar 02 22:29:24 <jasta> the technical arrangement here doesn't suggest that finish() is necessary to communicate the data.  perhaps there is just some API or approach being used that we don't know about?
Mar 02 22:33:53 <dragor43> yeah, my thought was that the Maps application is using some hack involving a handler and Runnable object in order to communicate between the two activities.
Mar 02 22:34:21 <jasta> you know, they may have just sent an IBinder to the subactivity and communicate through that.
Mar 02 22:34:40 <jasta> we know that IBinder references can be serialized and sent to even multiple processes for IPC.
Mar 02 22:34:56 <dragor43> hmm
Mar 02 22:35:58 <dragor43> well, i know one hack you could do for sure is to have the view of the child activity be a custom view, and pass the runnable object/handler to that view in the constructor.
Mar 02 22:36:14 <dragor43> that way you can invoke the handler from within the child activity. very hacky way of doing it.
Mar 02 22:45:23 <f00f-> i can't seem to get relative layouts to work properly without speciyfing a margin
Mar 02 22:45:40 <f00f-> it's not using my layout_toLeft or layout_toRight etc.
Mar 02 22:45:51 <f00f-> or alignRight
Mar 02 22:46:02 <jasta> i used them and accomplished the effect you're looking for
Mar 02 22:46:21 <f00f-> did you have to call measure() or those functions
Mar 02 22:46:22 <jasta> but again, i strongly recommend using linearlayout with a weighted child for your outer layout to accomplish this effect.
Mar 02 22:46:25 <f00f-> i'm doing this all in XML
Mar 02 22:46:33 <jasta> f00f-: No, and I did it all in code.
Mar 02 22:46:34 <f00f-> i need relativelayout for other things
Mar 02 22:46:36 <f00f-> so i'm using it
Mar 02 22:46:39 <jasta> You've got a losing strategy this way.
Mar 02 22:46:47 <jasta> You can mix layouts.
Mar 02 22:46:57 <f00f-> doing it in code is pretty bad
Mar 02 22:47:06 <jasta> an outer linearlayout with an inner relativelayout or something
Mar 02 22:47:13 <jasta> doing layouts in code is miserable.  i don't recommend it ever.
Mar 02 22:47:31 <jasta> just call ViewInflate.from(context).inflate() and save yourself the pain.
Mar 02 22:47:33 <f00f-> yet you use it?
Mar 02 22:47:42 <jasta> I *used* it, once, a long time ago before I knew better.
Mar 02 22:47:53 <jasta> That code is in the public domain too if you really want to see it
Mar 02 22:48:19 <f00f-> so i can't setContentView(R.layout.x) ?
Mar 02 22:48:24 <jasta> sure you could.
Mar 02 22:48:36 <f00f-> that's what i'm doing and it works, i'm just having trouble with the layout itself
Mar 02 22:48:50 <jasta> but i did my relativelayout trick inside an extended relativelayout.  i had eventually replaced that code with inflating a view from XML.
Mar 02 22:49:21 <f00f-> ok, i guess it complicates it more that i'm using a cursor view adapter
Mar 02 22:49:27 <jasta> not at all
Mar 02 22:49:31 <f00f-> right
Mar 02 22:49:36 <jasta> you're making this hard on yourself, trust me.
Mar 02 22:50:04 <f00f-> ok how do i make an imageview to the left and textview to the right
Mar 02 22:50:04 <jasta> the layout system in android is easily over-complicated.  there's usually a simple way to do just about anything though.
Mar 02 22:50:15 <f00f-> it seems like i need to specify a margin for it to work
Mar 02 22:50:19 <jasta> how do you mean to the left and right?
Mar 02 22:50:20 <f00f-> otherwise everything is 'bunched up' together
Mar 02 22:50:29 <f00f-> <IMAGE> <TEXT...........>
Mar 02 22:50:33 <f00f-> without specifying absolute margins
Mar 02 22:50:40 <f00f-> assuming image is parentleft
Mar 02 22:50:50 <davidw> hrm... anyone know how to make a tempdir in Java?
Mar 02 22:50:51 <jasta> simple, <LinearLayout> <ImageView/> <TextView layout_weight="1"/> </LinearLayout>
Mar 02 22:51:04 <f00f-> with a RelativeLayout ?
Mar 02 22:51:10 <jasta> do it with a linearlayout.
Mar 02 22:51:26 <jasta> like i said, you can combine layouts to your hearts content.
Mar 02 22:51:30 <f00f-> why doesn't a RelativeLayout work?
Mar 02 22:51:36 <jasta> it does, it's just harder to do this very simple thing.
Mar 02 22:51:47 <f00f-> what's the secret?
Mar 02 22:52:08 <jasta> there is no secret.  alignWithParentLeft for the ImageView then POSITION_TO_LEFT for the textview
Mar 02 22:52:39 <jasta> like i said, you're making this hard on yourself for no reason :)
Mar 02 22:52:50 <jasta> i wouldn't use a relativelayout at all.  i'd next a relativelayout some other way.
Mar 02 22:53:15 <jasta> err, i'd embed* :)
Mar 02 22:55:03 <f00f-> okay so i get the image to show up (it has alignparentleft) but when i add layout_toLeft="the-image" to the textView it doesn't show up
Mar 02 22:55:12 <f00f-> the latter 'it' is the TextView
Mar 02 22:55:15 <f00f-> i can only see the image now
Mar 02 22:55:23 <jasta> maybe i meant toRight, i'm not sure, read the docs.
Mar 02 22:55:56 <jasta> the view that i had originally constructed doing this was <IMG> <TEXT ......> <TEXT>
Mar 02 22:55:59 <jasta> and it worked fine.
Mar 02 22:56:09 <jasta> but it's totally stupid, because a linearlayout can do it simpler.
Mar 02 23:02:25 <f00f-> ok with a LinearLayout it only appears to 'stretch' it out (with weight = 1) if the text is longer than its given area
Mar 02 23:02:47 <jasta> not true.
Mar 02 23:02:58 <jasta> what did you specify for layout_width?
Mar 02 23:03:05 <f00f-> wrap_content
Mar 02 23:03:09 <jasta> use 0px
Mar 02 23:03:10 <f00f-> for the layout and all its children
Mar 02 23:03:29 <f00f-> set to 0px for the LinearLayout or its children?
Mar 02 23:03:35 <jasta> the layout itself should be layout_width="fill_parent" almost certainly
Mar 02 23:03:39 <jasta> f00f-: the child that has weight=1
Mar 02 23:03:59 <jasta> can you just show me your entire layout at some pastebin somewhere?  it sounds like you've got lots of problems.
Mar 02 23:09:22 <f00f-> jasta: i think i got it working sort of... is there a way to make the 'squished' textview now 'scroll' itself automatically when it is selected?
Mar 02 23:09:34 <f00f-> like left-right scrolling automatically..
Mar 02 23:11:41 <jasta> presumably, yes
Mar 02 23:11:49 <jasta> i'll leave that as an exercise for you
Mar 02 23:11:57 <jasta> i'm wrestling with onMeasure right now
Mar 02 23:12:17 <f00f-> okay, i thought it was a ssimple as scrollHorizontally="true" but i'll dig more
Mar 02 23:12:22 <f00f-> thanks
Mar 02 23:15:14 <romainguy_> what are you trying to do?
Mar 02 23:17:26 <f00f-> who?
Mar 02 23:17:31 <romainguy_> you
Mar 02 23:18:03 <f00f-> well i want a textview to scroll it's contents left-to-right when there is not enough room to fit the text, while still take up only one line
Mar 02 23:18:30 <f00f-> like on many phones you see a list that has items
Mar 02 23:18:41 <f00f-> some text doesn't fit so when you scroll to it, it scrolls
Mar 02 23:18:47 <romainguy_> singleLine="true"
Mar 02 23:19:17 <romainguy_> but obviously that works only with EditText
Mar 02 23:19:22 <romainguy_> a regular TextView doesn't get focus
Mar 02 23:19:27 <romainguy_> so you cannot scroll it
Mar 02 23:19:34 <f00f-> ooh right
Mar 02 23:19:44 <romainguy_> you could try to set the TextView focusable
Mar 02 23:19:51 <romainguy_> I don't know if it will work though
Mar 02 23:20:18 <f00f-> hmm, i'd still need to scrolling code though?
Mar 02 23:20:22 <jasta> hmm, damn, my onMeasure implementation did not work :(
Mar 02 23:20:24 <f00f-> or would it automatically scroll
Mar 02 23:20:33 <romainguy_> f00f-: it scrolls if the user makes it scroll
Mar 02 23:20:34 <f00f-> well it's not a big deal either way
Mar 02 23:20:37 <romainguy_> if won't behave like a ticker
Mar 02 23:20:38 <f00f-> ok
Mar 02 23:20:41 <romainguy_> use a ticker for that :)
Mar 02 23:20:47 <f00f-> oh TICKER!!!
Mar 02 23:20:47 <f00f-> lol
Mar 02 23:20:48 <f00f-> thanks
Mar 02 23:43:13 <jasta> romainguy_: my girlfriend *really* wants a skateboarding android t-shirt :P
Mar 02 23:43:24 <romainguy_> ^^
Mar 02 23:43:30 <jasta> i showed her hehe
Mar 02 23:43:36 <jasta> are you guys giving them away at code days?
Mar 02 23:43:42 <romainguy_> I have no idea
Mar 02 23:43:44 <romainguy_> probably
Mar 02 23:43:50 <jasta> boo, you should find out :)
Mar 02 23:43:53 <romainguy_> we got loads of tshirts, hoodies, stickers, etc.
Mar 02 23:44:01 <romainguy_> but I don't know if we give them away at code days
Mar 02 23:44:16 <romainguy_> there's even a Dalvik tshirt :p
Mar 02 23:44:23 * jasta writes his address down and slides it across the table to romainguy_ 
Mar 02 23:45:21 * duey intercepts jasta note and fixes the address
Mar 02 23:47:06 <chaosvoyager> Now that you mention it, what are the rights granted on the Android logo? Can someone use it royalty free on their own, say, mousepads, buttons, and ties?
Mar 02 23:48:01 <romainguy_> "Except as otherwise noted, the content of this page is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License."
Mar 02 23:48:04 <jasta> grr, this is so frustrating.  now that i've overridden onMeasure the textviews don't center correctly.
Mar 02 23:48:11 <romainguy_> chaosvoyager: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Mar 02 23:50:13 <chaosvoyager> Excellent. Thanks.
Mar 03 00:04:02 <thedaniel`> hey folks, hoping someone could point me int he right direction re: Failure Delivering Result exception when hitting the back button
Mar 03 00:04:18 <thedaniel`> this happens in my code, but it also happens in the tutorial Notepad app
Mar 03 00:04:42 <thedaniel`> even just a link to relevant docs are fine, i don't mind educating myself, i just can't figure out just what the app expects
Mar 03 00:08:51 <chaosvoyager> Wish I could help. Sorry.
Mar 03 00:12:47 <jasta> it just occurred to me why this doesn't work as i expect.  i can't have a floating point height ;)
Mar 03 00:12:58 <jasta> i can't compute my own variance
Mar 03 00:21:19 <plusminus> hey guys
Mar 03 00:21:20 <plusminus> I'm receiving a "Error broadcast null" in an IntentReceiver, after hitting the 'ahrware' "HangUp-Button".
Mar 03 00:21:47 <plusminus> I'm calling in onFreeze() "unregisterReceiver" to the Locationamanger with the Intentreceiver causing the problem.
Mar 03 00:22:35 <plusminus> Whats the reason for that Error ...? :(
Mar 03 00:23:16 <plusminus> typo: 'ahrware'  --> 'hardware'
Mar 03 00:24:24 <plusminus> Exact Error Description is: "An error has occured in mypackage. Error receiving broadcast null in mypackage$myIntentReceiver@4016ca18"
Mar 03 00:25:09 <plusminus> I know that you are not all sleeping :P
Mar 03 00:25:43 <chaosvoyager> No, some of us are just dumbfounded :)
Mar 03 00:26:04 <plusminus> ^^
Mar 03 00:26:21 <plusminus> I hope not because of my shitty english...
Mar 03 00:27:20 <chaosvoyager> No. It's easily better than many native speakers I know.
Mar 03 00:27:49 <plusminus> phew ;)
Mar 03 00:28:51 <acsia> is the loadUrl("file:///android_asset/html.html") working for webView?
Mar 03 00:29:09 <plusminus> The Error window occurs when I can already see the homescreen. So I think that unRegisterReceiver is not correctly called or sth... (if I end my app with "normal" everything is fine) :(
Mar 03 00:38:53 <plusminus> :'(
Mar 03 00:39:00 <plusminus> :'-(
Mar 03 00:39:00 <chaosvoyager> plusminus: have you tried -wipe-data? Perhaps the existing intent associations are not being changed.
Mar 03 00:39:36 <chaosvoyager> Dude, I just figured out Android 5 minutes ago, gove me a break :)
Mar 03 00:39:41 <plusminus> no i didn't but they didn't change since the last time I reset the emulator
Mar 03 00:40:51 <chaosvoyager> Hmm, out of my league then.
Mar 03 00:40:58 <plusminus> :)
Mar 03 00:41:16 <plusminus> but -wipe-data is always a good try ;)
Mar 03 00:41:58 <chaosvoyager> I learned that from Windows.
Mar 03 00:45:06 <chaosvoyager> BTW, good job with anddev.org. I'm not alone in thinking that it should get some of that Developer Challenge money.
Mar 03 00:45:58 <plusminus> :D I don't expect that but I would really be fine...
Mar 03 00:46:09 <plusminus> YOu think I should "submit" anddev ^^ ?
Mar 03 00:48:52 <plusminus> I'm off guys... getting late ZzZzZzZzzzz...
Mar 03 00:49:00 <plusminus> I'll ask that tomorrow again ;)
Mar 03 00:49:02 <plusminus> bye
Mar 03 01:10:04 <chaosvoyager> How's Android's SAX performance?
Mar 03 01:10:42 <dragor43> seems fast to me
Mar 03 01:11:53 <chaosvoyager> Ah, good. Wasn't sure if it was one of those things to avoid due to performance reasons.
Mar 03 01:14:26 <chaosvoyager> Come to think of it, I actually wonder why Android doesn't use SAX to parse Resources. DOM I can see (memory), but an XMLPullParser seems a bit limiting for future growth.
Mar 03 01:16:10 <dragor43> not sure about resources, but most of the XML files used in Android aren't plain-text
Mar 03 01:16:21 <dragor43> it's some sort of binary XML
Mar 03 01:17:00 <dragor43> XMLPullParser is the object which can read binary XML, so I'm guessing resources are that way too.
Mar 03 01:17:20 <chaosvoyager> o_0 (binary)
Mar 03 01:17:28 <chaosvoyager> huh.
Mar 03 01:17:51 <dragor43> yeah, if you pull an apk file out of the emulator and view it in a text editor you'll see what i mean
Mar 03 01:18:04 <dragor43> rather. pull the apk file out of the emulator and look at one of the layout xmls.
Mar 03 01:18:29 <chaosvoyager> I wonder if the format is available.
Mar 03 01:18:59 <dragor43> there's some threads about it on the google groups. i haven't looked into it in too much detail.
Mar 03 01:19:56 <chaosvoyager> I also wonder if the XMLPullParser used by Android is the same one available normally. I assume it is, because it's not directly documented in the Android docs.
Mar 03 01:20:04 <dragor43> but, I use SAX in my program to parse web services, and retrieving an parsing a reasonably sized web service response takes no more than a few seconds
Mar 03 01:20:52 <dragor43> for large responses it takes some time, but i don't know if that's from downloading the response or parsing it.
Mar 03 01:20:54 <romainguy_>  a few seconds seems like a lot :)
Mar 03 01:21:35 <dragor43> romainguy_: I'm not separating the HTTP get from the parsing
Mar 03 01:21:53 <romainguy_> ok
Mar 03 01:22:13 <chaosvoyager> Not in the world of SOA :P
Mar 03 01:22:51 <chaosvoyager> Fast movements frighten the locals.
Mar 03 01:25:47 <chaosvoyager> Though the worst case of bad use of web services was with Microsoft's robotics studio. They used SOAP, to control robots. 'Turn Left' never looked so large.
Mar 03 03:05:39 <f00f-> is jid_resource supposed to be null in the Im provider?
Mar 03 03:27:33 <f00f-> it looks like gtalk is completely fucked up
Mar 03 03:47:45 <jasta> anyone around to test my widget?
Mar 03 03:48:14 <romainguy_> shoot
Mar 03 03:48:37 <jasta> alright, let me upload it, one sec
Mar 03 03:49:22 <jasta> http://jasta.dyndns.org/android/
Mar 03 03:51:54 <jasta> work ok?
Mar 03 03:52:37 <romainguy_> starting the emulator
Mar 03 03:52:45 <romainguy_> I had to find where I put my M5 SDK
Mar 03 03:54:17 <jasta> i think i will use a custom font for the alphabet bar eventually.  one that is more blocky.
Mar 03 03:54:22 <romainguy_> nice
Mar 03 03:54:34 <romainguy_> I'd be curious to try it on our current tree with the fling
Mar 03 03:54:58 <jasta> it sections out based on the data too, so you could feed it any sorted list
Mar 03 03:55:04 <jasta> you don't have to help it out at all
Mar 03 03:55:23 <jasta> though i may offer that as a feature if you want to ramp up its efficiency.
Mar 03 03:56:00 <jasta> romainguy_: doubt it would build against the current tree :)
Mar 03 03:56:15 <jasta> if you don't give it a sorted list, though, it will probably freak out :)
Mar 03 03:56:26 <romainguy_> it won't build
Mar 03 03:56:48 <romainguy_> but I kinda know how to make it build :p
Mar 03 03:56:57 <jasta> i'm especially curious what folks think of the default look
Mar 03 03:57:58 <jasta> took me a long time to pick those colors and everything, sad as that may seem.
Mar 03 03:58:27 <romainguy_> to be blunt and honest, I think it looks bad
Mar 03 03:58:36 <jasta> dang :)
Mar 03 03:58:39 <romainguy_> to be nice and polite, it is not what I would have chosen :))
Mar 03 03:59:43 <jasta> i picked the green because it seems that Android uses green a lot
Mar 03 03:59:56 <jasta> i would have preferred a metal gray/light blue myself
Mar 03 04:00:07 <jasta> but then that would look bad against the black background
Mar 03 04:00:09 <romainguy_> hmmm performance is not that great
Mar 03 04:00:18 <romainguy_> I think our next ListView will help a lot here
Mar 03 04:00:43 <jasta> really?  i can't see where a performance penalty would come from?
Mar 03 04:01:20 <romainguy_> we probably don't hand you the appropriate recycled view often enough
Mar 03 04:01:24 <romainguy_> forcing you to inflate too often
Mar 03 04:01:33 <jasta> oh, perhaps
Mar 03 04:02:03 <jasta> i could work around that by just inflating 27 of them when the adapter loads
Mar 03 04:02:06 <jasta> and recycling them myself
Mar 03 04:02:24 <jasta> but i dont care
Mar 03 04:02:52 <jasta> i'm gonna look into the performance though to make sure that i haven't done something silly
Mar 03 04:03:27 <romainguy_> it's just that on the emulator a simple touch scroll feels a lot slower than on a regular list
Mar 03 04:03:36 <romainguy_> I should try on a prototype device
Mar 03 04:03:36 <jasta> i thought so too, actually.
Mar 03 04:03:58 <jasta> i could not tell if that was because i have created a very large list and there is some lingering brokenness there, or if it really was my widget
Mar 03 04:04:13 <jasta> because i am recycling the views correctly and my lookup time is log 27 which should be quite fast.
Mar 03 04:04:44 <romainguy_> I'm pretty sure it's our fault
Mar 03 04:05:03 <romainguy_> we just don't give you the appropriate view to recycle
Mar 03 04:05:18 <jasta> let me test.  i already have a log line spitting out for every call to getView() (that may be affecting performance as well), i'll just add to it to see if the recycle attempt worked
Mar 03 04:05:34 <romainguy_> Log statements hurt performance :)
Mar 03 04:05:39 <jasta> yes, i know
Mar 03 04:05:46 <f00f-> romainguy_: do you know if gtalk data message receive is broken in m5?
Mar 03 04:05:51 <romainguy_> f00f-: no idea :)
Mar 03 04:06:03 <romainguy_> fuck you Leopard @!#
Mar 03 04:06:09 <romainguy_> it screwed my source tree again @!#
Mar 03 04:06:14 <romainguy_> that's thrice this month
Mar 03 04:06:16 <romainguy_> dammit
Mar 03 04:06:18 <zhobbs> haha
Mar 03 04:06:43 <chaosvoyager> Bad kitty.
Mar 03 04:06:44 <romainguy_> note: do not use a case-sensitive encrypted DMG file on an external hard drive to hold source code :)
Mar 03 04:06:46 <jasta> romainguy_: Oh yeah, you're right.
Mar 03 04:06:51 <jasta> conversion is unsuccessful quite often
Mar 03 04:07:01 <romainguy_> jasta: yeah I was afraid it was so
Mar 03 04:07:12 <romainguy_> jasta: it's one of our priorities for the next SDK though :)
Mar 03 04:07:30 <jasta> it looks like it misses half the conversions in some cases
Mar 03 04:07:32 <jasta> but it seems sporadic
Mar 03 04:07:41 <jasta> sometimes it hits like 10 in a row
Mar 03 04:07:45 <romainguy_> yeah because you're doing just touch scrolling
Mar 03 04:07:47 <jasta> then at other times it misses half or more in one scroll
Mar 03 04:07:53 <romainguy_> which is pretty predictable
Mar 03 04:08:06 <romainguy_> but with our fling scroll your misses would go up
Mar 03 04:08:28 <romainguy_> in the meantime you could just have your 27 separators in your own cache
Mar 03 04:08:31 <jasta> no i mean even touch scrolling misses quite a lot
Mar 03 04:09:02 <romainguy_> yeah we need to do something about that
Mar 03 04:09:15 <jasta> i suspect ViewInflate.inflate is pretty expensive too.
Mar 03 04:09:22 <romainguy_> it's very expensive
Mar 03 04:09:25 <romainguy_> hence the idea of the convertView
Mar 03 04:09:37 <romainguy_> but when ListView behaves correctly you get some pretty cool results
Mar 03 04:09:51 <romainguy_> like, as I mentioned before, 60 fps while flinging through a list of 1,000 items
Mar 03 04:09:58 <romainguy_> (on real hardware)
Mar 03 04:10:36 <zhobbs> when/why does the convertView fail?
Mar 03 04:11:12 <zhobbs> does it pass in null instead of view sometimes, or pass in unusable view?
Mar 03 04:11:30 <jasta> romainguy_: performance also went up a lot when i removed the logging, hmm ;)
Mar 03 04:12:09 <jasta> zhobbs: my listview has row views of two different types
Mar 03 04:12:17 <zhobbs> Ahh
Mar 03 04:12:21 <zhobbs> I haven't done that yet
Mar 03 04:12:22 <jasta> the adapter is given a view to convert in some cases that is of the wrong type for the current row
Mar 03 04:12:26 <jasta> so it has to throw it away
Mar 03 04:12:30 <zhobbs> I see
Mar 03 04:13:51 <zhobbs> I've been casting convertView without any checking, etc, just making sure that wasn't a problem
Mar 03 04:15:28 <romainguy_> zhobbs: just an unusable view
Mar 03 04:15:38 <romainguy_> the problem is when you mix different kinds of views
Mar 03 04:15:50 <jasta> i'm sad you think it's ugly :)
Mar 03 04:15:52 <jasta> i tried so hard
Mar 03 04:15:55 <romainguy_> right now ListView just recycles all the views as if they were the same
Mar 03 04:16:00 <romainguy_> and just hands you a random view
Mar 03 04:16:17 <zhobbs> jasta: did you release your scroller?
Mar 03 04:16:21 <jasta> yeah
Mar 03 04:16:26 <zhobbs> where?
Mar 03 04:16:34 <jasta> right now, http://jasta.dyndns.org/android/
Mar 03 04:16:43 <jasta> just trying to get some feedback, then i will post it on my blog and the google groups
Mar 03 04:17:45 <romainguy_> jasta: that said, it's a cool widget that I wish we could offer in our framework
Mar 03 04:17:54 <jasta> why can't you?
Mar 03 04:18:02 <chaosvoyager> Don't feel bad jasta. From the sounds of it, you just followed thematic influences as opposed to perceptual.
Mar 03 04:18:08 <romainguy_> I am not sure and it's better for me to not know
Mar 03 04:18:16 <romainguy_> but as I said, it's almost guaranteed there's a patent on it
Mar 03 04:18:29 <jasta> fuck apple, as i said before :)
Mar 03 04:18:32 <romainguy_> sure
Mar 03 04:18:42 <romainguy_> except Google would be liable :)
Mar 03 04:19:18 <jasta> well, whatever.  i bet if i improve it how i planned to it will be harder to fit into any existing patents.
Mar 03 04:19:24 <zhobbs> I hate patents....
Mar 03 04:19:25 <jasta> i am planning to have it work like those visual typing keyboards
Mar 03 04:19:39 <jasta> where as you select letters they shift aside and expose more letter choices
Mar 03 04:19:43 <romainguy_> jasta: I doubt you'll have any problem with it
Mar 03 04:19:47 <zhobbs> everytime I want to start a business I get all revved up and find out that I would get sued asap
Mar 03 04:19:50 <romainguy_> but Google is a different matter
Mar 03 04:19:58 <f00f-> isn't that already built-in with the new abc autocompletion thing?
Mar 03 04:21:23 <zhobbs> jasta: just ran it, nice concept...like you said would be hard to use on a touchscreen
Mar 03 04:21:42 <jasta> well, it's almost exactly what the iPhone has ;)
Mar 03 04:21:52 <jasta> the only difference is that they have probably made the clickable area really huge, where i have not yet.
Mar 03 04:22:02 <chaosvoyager> You know, I'd be willing to put a wager that every program submitted to the ADC will have a patent covering it.
Mar 03 04:22:17 <zhobbs> chaosvoyager: I believe that
Mar 03 04:22:44 <chaosvoyager> Well, now I know why I can't find anyone who will take that bet :P
Mar 03 04:24:13 <f00f-> i can't wait for the next SDK release
Mar 03 04:24:15 <chaosvoyager> Oh, and it's not comprehensive, but I've taking to observing how people use their iPhones, among the other little gadgets. Teenagers seem to have absolutely no problem using the unmagnified keyboard, and with one hand.
Mar 03 04:24:32 <zhobbs> little fingers
Mar 03 04:24:49 <romainguy_> chaosvoyager: the key with iPhone's keyboard is simply to trust it
Mar 03 04:25:05 <romainguy_> I'm pretty sure I miss every letter I type but I very rarely need to use backspace
Mar 03 04:25:29 <zhobbs> romainguy_: we need to see the on screen keyboard...it might end up covering up important screen area in our gui
Mar 03 04:25:44 <chaosvoyager> ....trust...the iPhoone..... O_O
Mar 03 04:25:58 <romainguy_> zhobbs: what on screen keyboard?
Mar 03 04:26:42 <zhobbs> well, I would think that a touchscreen phone like the HVGA skin would need an on screen keyboard when inputing text like the iphone
Mar 03 04:26:54 <chaosvoyager> and zhobbs, they use their thumb, which while tiner is still the largest finger on their hands.
Mar 03 04:27:56 <zhobbs> chaosvoyager: when I first heard about the iphone I bitched saying "I want buttons", but after using it it actually really works
Mar 03 04:28:16 <romainguy_> agreed
Mar 03 04:28:48 <zhobbs> and I don't have one, but after playing with one for a couple mins I got used to it
Mar 03 04:28:51 <chaosvoyager> I was just the opposite :)
Mar 03 04:29:39 <chaosvoyager> It's as close to Jef Raskin's vision as I've ever seen on a device made after the '70.
Mar 03 04:31:58 <chaosvoyager> You know, in Japan, phone IM is so popular that kids write their school reports with them. There's even a computer keyboard designed like a phone because of this. Makes sense from a cultural standpoint, but I still find it bizzare.
Mar 03 04:34:02 <muthu> that makes sense
Mar 03 04:34:39 <muthu> probably the same mobile culture would spread everywhere
Mar 03 04:36:13 <romainguy_> @!# Lightroom
Mar 03 04:36:13 <jasta> http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/custom-android-list-view-widget-to.html
Mar 03 04:36:16 <jasta> ok, there it is...
Mar 03 04:36:36 <jasta> screenshot up there for the lazy folks :)
Mar 03 04:37:12 <muthu> jasta: thanks
Mar 03 04:37:52 <romainguy_> jasta: "As an added bonus, the next SDK release for Android is said to offer a "fling" animation that will smoothly scroll the list when you use the sidebar."
Mar 03 04:37:52 <chaosvoyager> What really amazes me is how girls manage to type so fast on a phone or sidekick without breaking a nail. Heck, I've wondered the same with those keyboard typists with REALLY long nails too.
Mar 03 04:38:00 <romainguy_> no, the fling is when you fling the list with your finger :)
Mar 03 04:44:09 <jasta> romainguy_: really?  i was sure you meant something else by that.
Mar 03 04:44:33 <jasta> i will change it, and instead implement that animation myself :)
Mar 03 04:44:54 <romainguy_> well since we have fling we could add the animation
Mar 03 04:44:59 <romainguy_> which would basically be a simulated fling
Mar 03 04:45:17 * romainguy_ is gonna kill Lightroom
Mar 03 04:45:42 <jasta> romainguy_: well, you really should
Mar 03 04:46:05 <jasta> muthu: for what?
Mar 03 04:46:05 <romainguy_> I'm not sure whether we "really" should :)
Mar 03 04:46:56 <muthu> jasta: for your latest opensource offerning ;)
Mar 03 04:47:02 <duey> its a mirracle
Mar 03 04:47:06 <duey> i am starting my project
Mar 03 04:48:06 <f00f-> is there some security permission i need to set to receive GTalk data messages?
Mar 03 04:50:11 <muthu> f00f: what's the error?
Mar 03 04:50:23 <f00f-> i'm not getting the intent
Mar 03 04:50:28 <f00f-> no error, lack of data!
Mar 03 04:50:41 <f00f-> D/gtalkSrv(  544): [DataMsgProvider] parseExtension: got (MyMessage, Hello, world!)
Mar 03 04:50:44 <f00f-> is all i see on the console
Mar 03 04:50:48 <f00f-> but it never gets delivered to my app
Mar 03 04:51:37 <chaosvoyager> Romain returns...and Lightroom is nowhere to be found...
Mar 03 04:52:00 <romainguy> ^^
Mar 03 04:52:13 <romainguy> I think Lightroom is trying to tell me it's time to upgrade to a MacPro ;-)
Mar 03 04:52:35 <duey> yes
Mar 03 04:52:44 <duey> my text editior did the same thing
Mar 03 04:52:50 <romainguy> lol
Mar 03 04:53:46 * duey is cheating
Mar 03 04:53:52 <duey> tesseract ftw!
Mar 03 04:55:00 <romainguy> yeah I'm sure Lightroom and Photoshop would be less poopy on an 8-cores
Mar 03 04:55:30 <duey> what have you currently got?
Mar 03 04:55:42 <romainguy> a MacBook Pro 1st gen
Mar 03 04:55:49 <romainguy> and a MacBook Pro 2nd gen
Mar 03 04:55:50 <chaosvoyager> Vista is telling me I should upgrade this. Not exactly sure what it means by 'this', but I think a fling is involved.
Mar 03 04:55:55 <duey> surely they can run them
Mar 03 04:55:56 <romainguy> and a 4-cores Mac Pro at work
Mar 03 04:56:01 <romainguy> duey: I wish
Mar 03 04:56:08 <romainguy> I mean they can but it's quite painful
Mar 03 04:56:13 <duey> what are adobe doing?
Mar 03 04:56:30 <romainguy> well it's mostly a combination of large screen, slow hard drive and not enough RAM :)
Mar 03 04:56:53 <duey> /* speed up loop */ for(int i=0; i < 10000000; i++) { sleep(1); }
Mar 03 04:57:31 <romainguy> Lightroom is actually surprisingly fast considering what it's doing
Mar 03 04:58:05 <chaosvoyager> Technically, those Santa Rosa machines can support 8gb, though other than Dell I've yet to find a company to claim support for such.
Mar 03 04:58:23 <chaosvoyager> But Lightroom makes heavy use of the GPU, doesn't it?
Mar 03 04:58:36 <romainguy> it does
Mar 03 04:58:38 <duey> is lightroom like apeture?
Mar 03 04:58:43 <romainguy> it is
Mar 03 04:58:47 <duey> right
Mar 03 04:58:54 <duey> cheater
Mar 03 04:58:56 <chaosvoyager> say so much so they do battle on the internet.
Mar 03 04:59:19 <f00f-> <3 lightroom's zippyness at times
Mar 03 04:59:55 <duey> photoshop 5.5
Mar 03 04:59:56 <duey> ftw.
Mar 03 05:00:04 <duey> now thats fast!
Mar 03 05:00:25 <romainguy> duey: too bad it does not support RAW files :)
Mar 03 05:00:30 <duey> lol
Mar 03 05:01:45 <chaosvoyager> nVidia confounds me. They claim their new mobile platform is exclusively Windows Mobile, and yet they back OpenKODE (Open GL ES, OpenVG, OpenSL, essentially an open source DirectX stack).
Mar 03 05:02:11 <f00f-> lol
Mar 03 05:05:04 <chaosvoyager> That's really something to watch though. I think the Khronos APIs will have a major impact on mobile devices regardless.
Mar 03 05:09:52 <romainguy> OpenGL|ES 2 is quite nice
Mar 03 05:11:10 <chaosvoyager> Indeed.
Mar 03 05:12:28 * romainguy misses pixel shaders
Mar 03 05:12:56 <duey> i miss 2d
Mar 03 05:13:18 <romainguy> duey: I use pixel shaders for 2D only :))
Mar 03 05:16:26 <chaosvoyager> First thing I tried to do in WPF was a paint program, only to find out that I couldn't actually read and update the individual pixels, only ALL of them.
Mar 03 05:16:55 <chaosvoyager> The WinForm bitmap was actually more functional.
Mar 03 05:17:29 <romainguy> does it work like Flash with a display list?
Mar 03 05:17:48 <chaosvoyager> heck, for about 2 hours, I was wondering why there were two bitmap classes that seemed to almost, but nooot quite, do the same thing.
Mar 03 05:18:04 <chaosvoyager> Display list?
Mar 03 05:18:58 <romainguy> well in flash if you call graphics.drawline(0, 0, 100, 100) it draws a line on screen
Mar 03 05:19:17 <romainguy> but if later, let's say on a button event, you call graphics.drawline(200, 200, 300, 300) you end up with two lines
Mar 03 05:19:19 <chaosvoyager> Ah, winforms does that.
Mar 03 05:19:25 <romainguy> Flash just keeps a list of all the commands
Mar 03 05:19:36 <chaosvoyager> The WPF, does not, if I remember.
Mar 03 05:19:53 <romainguy> ok
Mar 03 05:19:54 <chaosvoyager> It's just a bitmap, with global filters applied.
Mar 03 05:23:31 <chaosvoyager> WPF wants you to describe as much as you can with XAML, which isn't really that far off from SVG, and it actually has some features I really like. And me liking anything in computing is rather rare.
Mar 03 05:25:18 <chaosvoyager> Speaking of which, are there any plans to enrich or replace Android's XML layout/resource format before release?
Mar 03 05:26:13 <romainguy> replace it?
Mar 03 05:28:35 <chaosvoyager> Well, once you go past a certain number of changes...
Mar 03 05:29:06 <romainguy> ?
Mar 03 05:30:06 <chaosvoyager> Change enough of something and you effectively replace it (*shakes hands*), anyway, bad choice of words.
Mar 03 05:31:54 <romainguy> I don't think we are planning on changing the XML format
Mar 03 05:35:43 <chaosvoyager> It's just that out of all the markup I've used for similar domains (like SVG, XAML MXML, XUL, one I forgot), I find it very limited.
Mar 03 05:37:05 <romainguy> we have different goals than those formats
Mar 03 05:37:30 <chaosvoyager> like what?
Mar 03 05:37:39 <romainguy> being simple :))
Mar 03 05:38:22 <romainguy> what are the limitations you find in our format?
Mar 03 05:38:57 <chaosvoyager> I think you can pull off simple and powerful.
Mar 03 05:39:14 <romainguy> how is our format not powerful?
Mar 03 05:44:26 <duey> My ocr is working well
Mar 03 05:44:26 <duey> 11ick@11ickjc11ki11.c0m
Mar 03 05:44:54 <chaosvoyager> Well first, looked something up. It does appear that Google is following the namespaces recommendation by prefacing 'android:' to every attribute, but dear lord does it make it unnecessarily verbose.
Mar 03 05:44:56 <duey> at least it knows leet speak
Mar 03 05:45:05 <chaosvoyager> heh,
Mar 03 05:46:57 <duey> they better make the cameras not suck :|
Mar 03 05:49:06 <chaosvoyager> secondly, you can't just display the scene graph without also writing Java to read the Resource and render it. The only thing I should need to write in Java are the event handlers.
Mar 03 05:51:16 <romainguy> which is basically what you do...
Mar 03 05:51:25 <romainguy> what resources are you reading and rendering?
Mar 03 05:52:27 <duey> its amazing what some people write in research papers
Mar 03 05:52:42 <duey> blabling on for a few pages about image formats
Mar 03 05:52:44 <duey> zzz
Mar 03 05:53:15 <chaosvoyager> heh, have to establish that tenure before they get fired somehow :)
Mar 03 05:53:56 <duey> video formats now..
Mar 03 06:00:42 <chaosvoyager> romainguy: mostly layouts and drawables, why?
Mar 03 06:03:19 <chaosvoyager> duey: at one point there was an excellent, and I mean excellent, Flash based tutorial on the JPEG2000 format. I think I have the Flash files somewhere, but the tutorial just dissapeared off the net.
Mar 03 06:03:57 <chaosvoyager> It's the only image format I ever thought was 'cool'
Mar 03 06:05:47 <romainguy> I also really like Microsoft's HD Photo format
Mar 03 06:06:45 <chaosvoyager> That's also a great format, but it's not as cool :)
Mar 03 06:06:55 <romainguy> depends on what your purpose is :)
Mar 03 06:07:40 <chaosvoyager> Cool has no purpose other than COOL :)
Mar 03 06:07:49 <duey> chaosvoyager, im reading a paper on location of text within a photo
Mar 03 06:08:06 <duey> and its got 5 papers explaining gif, tif, jpg, video
Mar 03 06:08:11 <duey> and binary images
Mar 03 06:08:19 <chaosvoyager> Ridiculous.
Mar 03 06:08:29 <duey> (because people reading the paper might not know right?)
Mar 03 06:08:48 <chaosvoyager> It distracts from the essential algorithm.
Mar 03 06:10:08 <chaosvoyager> At least they don't cover any RAW formats.
Mar 03 06:11:53 <duey> haha
Mar 03 06:12:02 <duey> would RAW be easy?
Mar 03 06:12:09 <duey> isn't it just well raw image data?
Mar 03 06:12:19 <romainguy> duey: not quite
Mar 03 06:12:26 <romainguy> I mean yes
Mar 03 06:12:31 <romainguy> but from a camera sensor
Mar 03 06:12:39 <duey> ah
Mar 03 06:12:47 <duey> so its /really/ raw image data
Mar 03 06:12:54 <chaosvoyager> And each camera does it differently.
Mar 03 06:13:01 <duey> oh thats smart
Mar 03 06:13:01 <chaosvoyager> Justr for fun.
Mar 03 06:13:43 <romainguy> and they have crazy formats like using 12 bits per color component
Mar 03 06:14:24 <duey> O.o
Mar 03 06:14:32 <chaosvoyager> Well, wouldn't be so bad if they were clearer on what their formats actually LOOKED like. RAW is a bit notorious for being completely open and completely undocumented.
Mar 03 06:14:34 <romainguy> (or 14 with newer models)
Mar 03 06:14:39 <chaosvoyager> Just for fun
Mar 03 06:14:49 <romainguy> well there's the DNG :)
Mar 03 06:15:33 <chaosvoyager> Yes, there are times I cheer for my media overlords to bring order to this madness.
Mar 03 06:16:00 <romainguy> yeah I wish I had the courage to turn all of my .cr2 to DNG
Mar 03 06:16:02 <chaosvoyager> Wait, Google had a RAW problem recently, where the heck did I hear that?
Mar 03 06:16:03 <romainguy> but prfffff :)
Mar 03 06:16:38 <chaosvoyager> Yes, that may be very difficult now that Lightroom is dead.
Mar 03 06:16:47 <romainguy> lol
Mar 03 06:16:49 <duey> dead?
Mar 03 06:16:54 <romainguy> it would just take a loong time :)
Mar 03 06:17:23 <duey> emacs can do it
Mar 03 06:19:03 <duey> so raw stores more data than humans can see
Mar 03 06:19:04 <duey> thats cool
Mar 03 06:19:45 <romainguy> yes but camera sensors have a linear response
Mar 03 06:19:56 <romainguy> so they suck with shadows
Mar 03 06:20:25 <duey> right
Mar 03 06:20:33 <chaosvoyager> I did not know that.
Mar 03 06:20:37 <duey> i have negative camera knowledge
Mar 03 06:21:13 <romainguy> chaosvoyager: yes, that's why it's easier to lose details in shadows than in highlights
Mar 03 06:21:21 <romainguy> therefore, it's a good idea to always "expose to the right"
Mar 03 06:21:38 <romainguy> you overexpose the image on purpose to avoid losing details in the shadows
Mar 03 06:21:49 <romainguy> and when you process the RAW you just adjust the exposure
Mar 03 06:22:13 <duey> i really like those images which are bluish
Mar 03 06:23:33 <romainguy> what bluish images?
Mar 03 06:23:55 <duey> they have a blue filter
Mar 03 06:25:02 <duey> cant find any
Mar 03 06:39:46 <chaosvoyager> Speaking of can't find, that's exactly what do with JPEG2000 tutorial I can't.
Mar 03 06:40:11 <chaosvoyager> and my programatic grammar is obviously leaking into my English.
Mar 03 06:40:45 <chaosvoyager> The paper based on it is here: http://omen.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/itiamsl/cms/upload/lehre/winter06_07/content.pdf
Mar 03 06:42:59 <chaosvoyager> Well worth a read just to get an idea of how to explain complex concepts simply.
Mar 03 07:52:32 <jasta> might be time for bed for me
Mar 03 07:52:45 <chaosvoyager> (*looks at clock*)
Mar 03 07:52:56 <chaosvoyager> crap, yes -_-
Mar 03 09:01:36 <plusminus> good morning
Mar 03 09:01:46 <romainguy> oy
Mar 03 09:02:05 <plusminus> View.android.policy.PhoneWindow$DecorView must be attached to a window ???
Mar 03 09:02:33 <romainguy> you're calling runOnUiThread too early :)
Mar 03 09:02:36 <plusminus> heard somewhere that occurs when updating a View from non GUI
Mar 03 09:02:46 <romainguy> yep
Mar 03 09:02:52 <romainguy> when the view is not yet showing on screen
Mar 03 09:03:02 <romainguy> I should just get rid of the facility
Mar 03 09:03:10 <plusminus> I'm not using runOnUIThread (just myHandler.postDelayed())
Mar 03 09:03:30 <romainguy> what's the complete stack trace?
Mar 03 09:03:34 <plusminus> same issue ?
Mar 03 09:03:50 <romainguy> what's the complete stack trace when you get this error?
Mar 03 09:04:41 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596): Uncaught handler: thread Thread-965 exiting due to uncaught exception
Mar 03 09:04:46 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596): java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: View android.policy.PhoneWindow$DecorView@403e1880 must be attached to a window
Mar 03 09:04:50 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596):     at android.view.UIThreadUtilities.isUIThread(UIThreadUtilities.java:45)
Mar 03 09:04:54 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596):     at android.view.UIThreadUtilities.runOnUIThread(UIThreadUtilities.java:64)
Mar 03 09:04:58 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596):     at android.view.UIThreadUtilities.runOnUIThread(UIThreadUtilities.java:102)
Mar 03 09:05:03 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596):     at android.app.ProgressDialog.dismiss(ProgressDialog.java:127)
Mar 03 09:05:07 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(596):     at org.anddev.android.andnav.ui.map.DDMap$5.run(DDMap.java:409)
Mar 03 09:05:07 <romainguy> ah ok
Mar 03 09:05:13 <romainguy> you're dismissing the dialog before it shows up
Mar 03 09:05:37 <plusminus> ah ok thx
Mar 03 09:05:51 <romainguy> hmm I should do something about this but it's not that easy to fix
Mar 03 09:05:54 <romainguy> I've been trying already
Mar 03 09:05:56 <romainguy> sorry for this
Mar 03 09:06:08 <plusminus> np, I can handle this
Mar 03 09:06:48 <niket> is anybody there?
Mar 03 09:07:08 <plusminus> It was just when the Driver is absolutely not driving the route suggested that the route needed to be refreshed pretty often ^^
Mar 03 09:07:16 <plusminus> maybe... ;)
Mar 03 09:08:23 <niket> Hi plusminus, I am really impressed with anddev.org site and further I need some information regarding android inbuilt application, if you know or anybody knows?
Mar 03 09:09:11 <niket> is anybody there?
Mar 03 09:09:11 <davidw> niket, where's there?
Mar 03 09:09:34 <niket> I know calling toggleTraffic method led to showing traffic overlay.
Mar 03 09:09:45 <niket> I am interested in knowing how traffic overlay functionality work in
Mar 03 09:09:58 <niket> inbuilt map application in emulator and when we slide the map to left
Mar 03 09:09:59 <acsia> morning
Mar 03 09:10:08 <niket> or right, it renders the traffic accordingly.
Mar 03 09:10:22 <plusminus> just an overlay feed from the net
Mar 03 09:10:23 <niket> Can you help me in understanding how it shows red, yellow and green
Mar 03 09:10:25 <plusminus> (imo)
Mar 03 09:10:39 <muthu> any media widget available?
Mar 03 09:10:55 <niket> color on the road showing traffic condition? How those overlay works? and how accurate
Mar 03 09:10:57 <muthu> now don't make me really write that code :(
Mar 03 09:11:14 <niket> is the traffic condition? I am really interested in knowing how
Mar 03 09:11:25 <niket> traffic view works in emulator.
Mar 03 09:12:01 <muthu> the best i can find for now is dims
Mar 03 09:12:56 <plusminus> It seems to work in US only ^^
Mar 03 09:13:02 <niket> yeah
Mar 03 09:13:56 <plusminus> yes, I think it is the traffic condition (red is probably heavy traffic-jam, yellow maybe flowing but high density...)
Mar 03 09:14:12 <romainguy> it is
Mar 03 09:14:19 * romainguy is in the red every morning :)
Mar 03 09:14:30 <plusminus> ^^
Mar 03 09:14:33 <niket> yeah I know about those color but how it overlay on road with different color
Mar 03 09:15:11 <niket> how to draw different colors or any mark on roads....
Mar 03 09:15:29 <plusminus> hm.. we can just toggle on/off...
Mar 03 09:15:29 <davidw> "no matter how wealthy you are, stuck in traffic on 101 is stuck in traffic in 101"
Mar 03 09:15:36 <plusminus> I don't >think< it is possible WE can change the color
Mar 03 09:15:59 <niket> we can't .....but how it works....
Mar 03 09:16:11 <romainguy> davidw: so true... so true...
Mar 03 09:16:28 <romainguy> davidw: actually traffic is pretty much the normal state of 101 ^^
Mar 03 09:16:34 <niket> how it overlay any line on the road...how to draw overlay on the road
Mar 03 09:16:35 <plusminus> niket: you want to know how Overlays work at all ?
Mar 03 09:16:53 <niket> yeah how overlay works on raod
Mar 03 09:16:55 <niket> road
Mar 03 09:17:28 <niket> how to determine the road line in map and draw overlay on the side of road
Mar 03 09:17:28 <plusminus> Something like this...: http://www.anddev.org/images/tut/map/andnav/screencast.htm :P
Mar 03 09:17:30 <davidw> yeah.... and what with not even being wealthy, it's one reason I'm hoping to avoid that area... the problem is that it's sort of a black hole for tech work:-/  it pulls you towards it, even if you're on the other side of the world
Mar 03 09:17:30 <muthu> davidw: unless you are filthy rich that you are flying in a private jet
Mar 03 09:17:46 <romainguy> davidw: that's what happened to me :))
Mar 03 09:17:55 <romainguy> muthu: nah because the airport is on 101 :))
Mar 03 09:17:58 <davidw> muthu, you can't go from palo alto to SF in a jet
Mar 03 09:18:11 <muthu> ha ha
Mar 03 09:18:18 <niket> let me check that link
Mar 03 09:18:19 <muthu> you have a chopper, fly from your rooftop
Mar 03 09:18:35 <plusminus> niket: I know no way to get all streets sorrounding!
Mar 03 09:18:44 <davidw> romainguy, you're french?
Mar 03 09:18:48 <romainguy> davidw: yes
Mar 03 09:19:32 <davidw> ah, cool.  That's a place I'd consider going.  The language isn't easy, but far more legible, if nothing else, than German
Mar 03 09:19:43 <romainguy> ahah
Mar 03 09:19:49 <romainguy> I studied German for 8 years
Mar 03 09:19:53 <romainguy> 6 hours a week
Mar 03 09:19:58 <romainguy> spent a few months over there
Mar 03 09:19:59 <plusminus> guten tag :)
Mar 03 09:20:17 <romainguy> and today all I can say is Ich möchte gern ein bisschen Kuchen essen
Mar 03 09:20:24 <romainguy> which is probably all I need to survive anyway :)
Mar 03 09:20:29 <davidw> I studied it in high school, but it was completely replaced in my brain by Italian
Mar 03 09:20:40 <plusminus> the sentence was pretty good ^^
Mar 03 09:20:42 <davidw> romainguy, "grosses bier, bitte" is another good one
Mar 03 09:20:49 <romainguy> lol
Mar 03 09:20:51 <niket> plusminus, it is really interesting....can I see the sourcecode of that application...I am interested in drawing overlay on the road
Mar 03 09:20:52 <plusminus> :D
Mar 03 09:21:17 <romainguy> plusminus: no matter how hard I tried to suck at it, my teachers managed to teach me a few things ;-))
Mar 03 09:21:36 * davidw gets tired of beer though... a nice red wine is more to my liking
Mar 03 09:21:51 <plusminus> romainguy: german is said to be pretty hard to understand, but I cannot imagine that :P
Mar 03 09:21:57 <romainguy> plusminus: I was actually surprised when I spent a week there a couple of years a go for a contract job; I was able to understand most of what people were telling me
Mar 03 09:22:07 <plusminus> niket: sorry not of the whole application (probably a adc submission)
Mar 03 09:22:15 <romainguy> the problem was that I couldn't talk :)
Mar 03 09:22:35 <plusminus> so its just like Latin I had at school ^^
Mar 03 09:22:43 <romainguy> plusminus: I did that too :)
Mar 03 09:22:47 <plusminus> how dead can a language be...
Mar 03 09:22:47 <romainguy> with Greek
Mar 03 09:23:04 <plusminus> propably not better
Mar 03 09:23:16 <romainguy> Greek has the weird alphabet :)
Mar 03 09:23:30 <plusminus> alpha beta gamma delta.... epsilon... zeta...omega
Mar 03 09:23:35 <romainguy> but living in California I now think I should have learned spanish :p
Mar 03 09:23:57 <plusminus> haha
Mar 03 09:23:59 <davidw> shouldn't be that hard, at least to read and understand some
Mar 03 09:24:35 <plusminus> I still can remember people saying "Latin will help you everywhere in future"...
Mar 03 09:24:46 <romainguy> plusminus: it's actually true when you speak French :)
Mar 03 09:24:52 <davidw> I got by ok in spain, although it was weird: I speak a bit more of it than my wife does, but being Italian, she understood a bit more than me, so often I'd speak to someone, they'd respond, she'd fill in the bits I missed, I'd speak again, and so on
Mar 03 09:24:54 <romainguy> and it's a good mental exercise I guess
Mar 03 09:25:07 <plusminus> I know that equus is horse but...
Mar 03 09:25:08 <acsia> and you never know, the Romans might take over again
Mar 03 09:25:10 <romainguy> davidw: that's what my parents do with English :))
Mar 03 09:25:19 <plusminus> yes to concentrate on things you definitely do not want to do...
Mar 03 09:25:46 <davidw> acsia, they have even worse traffic than 101... I don't think they'd even manage to get out of Rome
Mar 03 09:26:01 <romainguy> davidw: that's how we avoid being invaded :)
Mar 03 09:26:03 <acsia> lol true
Mar 03 09:26:10 <plusminus> nevertheless French Food might become World Heritage !!!
Mar 03 09:26:32 <plusminus> i just laughed when I heard that :D
Mar 03 09:26:39 <romainguy> ?
Mar 03 09:26:53 <plusminus> mom I#ll find an article...
Mar 03 09:26:53 <davidw> Berlusconi had some mumblings about trying to 'certify' "real" italian food
Mar 03 09:27:01 <acsia> haha
Mar 03 09:27:13 <acsia> Berlusconi typical italian
Mar 03 09:27:20 <davidw> honestly there is a lot of crap that tries to pass itself off as 'italian'
Mar 03 09:27:25 <davidw> acsia, woah
Mar 03 09:27:27 <plusminus> http://www.whytraveltofrance.com/2008/02/23/sarkozy-wants-french-food-to-have-a-unesco-world-heritage-listing/
Mar 03 09:27:33 <romainguy> davidw: like italian restaurants here? :)
Mar 03 09:27:42 <romainguy> plusminus: well I don't know about that but I sure miss the food :p
Mar 03 09:27:43 <acsia> you remember the french telling the italian that the only thing britain gave to the food industry was the mad cow disease?
Mar 03 09:27:47 <muthu> i heard greek food is the best!
Mar 03 09:27:58 <muthu> *heard*
Mar 03 09:28:05 <acsia> it was chirac telling berlusconi afair
Mar 03 09:28:10 <plusminus> romainguy: "Moule&Frites" damn I love that !!
Mar 03 09:28:12 <cutmasta> mornin
Mar 03 09:28:21 <romainguy> plusminus: that's more like Belgium
Mar 03 09:28:22 <acsia> moules frites is the best but that s belgium#
Mar 03 09:28:32 <romainguy> but close enough ;-)
Mar 03 09:28:39 <davidw> romainguy, if you want a decent one, Pazzia was pretty good last time I was in SF http://maps.google.com/maps?q=-&sll=37783238,-122398232&latlng=37783238,-122398232,9195357315675046883
Mar 03 09:28:59 <romainguy> davidw: hey, that's two blocks from were I live
Mar 03 09:29:03 <romainguy> ah wait
Mar 03 09:29:14 <plusminus> romainguy: It is ? They are selling it every 10 meters in the Bretagnè...
Mar 03 09:29:36 <plusminus> <-- flabbergasted !
Mar 03 09:30:23 <davidw> acsia, there are a lot of smart, honest, hard working people in Italy... Berlusconi isn't 'typical'.  Unfortunately, as Italian politicians go, he isn't too far from the average:-(
Mar 03 09:30:57 <acsia> he owns half the state television and is the richest man in Italy, just does not seem right to govern
Mar 03 09:31:01 <acsia> a bit similar
Mar 03 09:31:09 <acsia> to russia
Mar 03 09:31:17 <plusminus> niket: Sorry almost forgot your question..
Mar 03 09:31:24 <plusminus> Have a look at this: http://www.anddev.org/google_driving_directions_-_mapview_overlayed-t826.html
Mar 03 09:31:29 <plusminus> it might help you further
Mar 03 09:31:59 * davidw thinks he may have found a way to pound out an answer to generating new .apk's more or less (more less than more) automatically
Mar 03 09:32:22 <muthu> davidw: how?
Mar 03 09:32:41 <davidw> muthu, lots of ugly steps.  I'll post it on my blog when I've got it working
Mar 03 09:33:13 <davidw> the problem is that the package must be unique, it's not easy to replace the .xml file, and any number of other minor irritations
Mar 03 09:33:31 <muthu> davidw: why we need this?
Mar 03 09:33:43 <romainguy> muthu: davidw needs it :)
Mar 03 09:33:53 <muthu> makes sense :)
Mar 03 09:33:53 <davidw> to generate Hecl apps, of course:-)
Mar 03 09:34:10 <davidw> I think others might find it useful though
Mar 03 09:35:16 <acsia> I am trying to create a system wide aware app, was thinking about implementing my own context...
Mar 03 09:35:21 <acsia> anybody done that?
Mar 03 09:35:50 <romainguy> what do you mean by system wide aware?
Mar 03 09:36:22 <acsia> well that I can hook into applications outside the scope of mine
Mar 03 09:36:53 <romainguy> to do what?
Mar 03 09:36:59 <acsia> for instance, an automatic update application
Mar 03 09:37:30 <duey> acsia, your app would be a provider
Mar 03 09:37:41 <duey> and other apps would connect
Mar 03 09:37:45 * duey thinks
Mar 03 09:37:49 <romainguy> I'm not sure we want to let you write something that can hook into any other app...
Mar 03 09:37:57 <romainguy> Just a personal thought :)
Mar 03 09:38:01 <duey> ^ AGreed
Mar 03 09:38:09 <acsia> well can t I create my own context
Mar 03 09:38:14 <davidw> damn I hate dealing with files in Java
Mar 03 09:38:16 <acsia> and have other app use my context
Mar 03 09:38:18 <muthu> romainguy: i'm sure you don't
Mar 03 09:38:33 <muthu> that would be dangerous
Mar 03 09:38:47 <romainguy> davidw: yeah I can't wait for the JSR to be ready
Mar 03 09:39:00 <davidw> which one?
Mar 03 09:39:03 <romainguy> JSR 203
Mar 03 09:43:24 <acsia> can a view be parcelable?
Mar 03 09:43:46 <romainguy> why not save only its internal state?
Mar 03 09:44:05 <acsia> hum
Mar 03 09:44:20 <romainguy> I mean the one specific to your application
Mar 03 09:47:05 <davidw> ... PrintWriter out   = new PrintWriter(new BufferedWriter(new FileWriter("foo.out"))); ...  this is what I'm talking about... yikes
Mar 03 09:47:43 <romainguy> davidw: yeah but it's also extremely flexible and powerful
Mar 03 09:47:47 <romainguy> albeit a tad annoying I admit
Mar 03 09:47:57 <acsia> so romainguy where are you from in France?#
Mar 03 09:48:10 <romainguy> acsia: yes
Mar 03 09:48:29 <acsia> I mean which city
Mar 03 09:48:40 <romainguy> I'm from Lyon
Mar 03 09:48:41 <acsia> I am lived in Antibes
Mar 03 09:48:52 <romainguy> sorry I read a little too quickly :)
Mar 03 09:49:12 <acsia> and now in the US?
Mar 03 09:49:21 <acsia> isn't it a bit late now?
Mar 03 09:49:27 <romainguy> it's almost 2am
Mar 03 09:49:47 <acsia> nice how many coffees?
Mar 03 09:50:12 <romainguy> I hate coffee :)
Mar 03 09:51:24 <acsia> I can t live without it :)
Mar 03 09:52:49 <plusminus> its funny to see coffee-addicts without 3 cups of their brown gold in the morning ^^
Mar 03 09:52:57 <plusminus> they look like:   o_O
Mar 03 09:53:27 <acsia> yes I can relate to that
Mar 03 09:54:15 <acsia> and I have 3 espressos, from my own brew of very strong beans
Mar 03 09:54:31 <acsia> before ~I am even able to work
Mar 03 09:55:32 <davidw> ahahahahaha
Mar 03 09:56:09 <davidw> I can't stand coffee either.  My friends in Italy don't understand that it's not Italian coffee or American coffee or whatever... it's just disgusting
Mar 03 09:56:19 <romainguy> same thing
Mar 03 09:56:21 <davidw> tastes like dirt
Mar 03 09:56:24 <romainguy> yep
Mar 03 09:59:08 <davidw> the problem with this file stuff isn't the flexibility, it's that it's a bad UI.  Flexibility should be available, but not the default
Mar 03 09:59:27 <davidw> there should be one or a few defaults for what most people want to do with something
Mar 03 09:59:38 <romainguy> davidw: it's not really about defaults
Mar 03 09:59:45 <romainguy> it's more about having a higher level of abstraction
Mar 03 09:59:53 <romainguy> kinda like Python's readlines()
Mar 03 09:59:53 <davidw> well... yes
Mar 03 10:00:01 <romainguy> and it's what JSR 203 is about
Mar 03 10:00:48 <davidw> Tcl does this nicely with options... set sk [socket www.google.com 80] gets you a socket.  If you want to do clever things, you can pass all kinds of options in to do more advanced stuff
Mar 03 10:01:38 <romainguy> as opposed to new Socket("www.google.com", 80)? :))
Mar 03 10:05:37 <muthu> are people using tcl anymore?
Mar 03 10:05:51 <davidw> sure
Mar 03 10:05:51 <romainguy> muthu: davidw is writing his own version :)
Mar 03 10:06:03 <muthu> :)
Mar 03 10:06:11 <muthu> i would love to use some "expect"
Mar 03 10:06:25 <davidw> expect is a cool solution to an ugly problem, IMO
Mar 03 10:06:51 <muthu> its cool
Mar 03 10:07:03 <muthu> yes, its ugly coming to think of it ;)
Mar 03 10:07:33 <davidw> nice applications provide APIs and don't make you interact with the user interface
Mar 03 10:07:56 <romainguy> I just looked it up
Mar 03 10:08:00 <romainguy> sounds very ugly indeed :)
Mar 03 10:08:18 <romainguy> reminds me of this Java API that lets you read and write from and to telnet applications
Mar 03 10:08:32 <romainguy> so that you can slap a modern UI on top of an old app
Mar 03 10:09:43 <plusminus> hm when I have my app running in the emualtor. Then I just deploy again it without ending it properly before.
Mar 03 10:10:02 <plusminus> It is pretty possible that perhaps IntentReceiver is nor properly unregistered, right?
Mar 03 10:10:15 <plusminus> (I'm unregistering in onFreeze()
Mar 03 10:11:01 <romainguy> I don't remember whether onFreeze() is called in that case
Mar 03 10:11:09 <plusminus> because my app is receiving really >>old<< intents
Mar 03 10:11:09 <romainguy> why don't you unregister it in onDestroy() too?
Mar 03 10:13:04 <plusminus> good point. But principally onFreeze() 'should' be enough...?
Mar 03 10:13:36 <romainguy> in that case I don't know
Mar 03 10:13:51 <romainguy> last app I wrote was Home and it never freezes :)
Mar 03 10:14:00 <romainguy> I unregister all the receivers in onDestroy()
Mar 03 10:14:02 <romainguy> or maybe onStop()
Mar 03 10:15:22 <plusminus> kk
Mar 03 10:15:44 <muthu> an ugly looking media widget is ready, yay!
Mar 03 10:15:49 <plusminus> If I hit the HANGUP-Button, while my app is running I receive the following:
Mar 03 10:15:55 <plusminus> ERROR/AndroidRuntime(6129): java.lang.RuntimeException: Error receiving broadcast null in org.anddev.android.andnav.ui.map.IGPSMapActivity$MyLocationChangedIntentReceiver@401bc3f8
Mar 03 10:16:19 <plusminus> If I hit "BACK" + "BACK" no problem occurs.
Mar 03 10:16:41 <davidw> I hate answering the door here, no idea what they are saying... could be "hi, I have a million euros for you" or "I feel like kicking someone, are you available?"
Mar 03 10:16:46 <plusminus> maybe a similar issue to not correctly unregistering g?
Mar 03 10:16:55 <romainguy> davidw: ??
Mar 03 10:17:35 <davidw> romainguy, it's hard enough to hear through the speakerphone, let alone in a language I don't understand
Mar 03 10:18:13 <romainguy> ^^
Mar 03 10:18:43 <muthu> 1 min coding + 1 min irc chat = killer android app ;)
Mar 03 10:20:33 <plusminus> my gosh... I'm receiving millions(!) of the following warnings, having ended my app once with the "HANG-UP"-Button:
Mar 03 10:21:01 <plusminus> WARN/ActivityManager(508): Failure sending broadcast Intent { action=org.andnav.intent.LOCATION_CHANGED extras=Bundle[{location=Location[mProvider=gps,mTime=1........l]}] }
Mar 03 10:21:12 <plusminus> this looks so much like a failed unregistering :(
Mar 03 10:23:40 <plusminus> Feels like I need a -wipe-data ^^
Mar 03 10:39:46 <plusminus> Anyone also wonders why there is no route from SanFrancisco to Germany... I'm an idiot...
Mar 03 10:47:12 <muthu> plusminus: having fun heh
Mar 03 10:56:24 <plusminus> btw: it works so much better after a single -wipe-data
Mar 03 10:58:57 <lenni_-_> i've got a problem importing google's exercise files into eclipse.
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