**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 11 09:59:56 2008
Mar 11 11:06:07 <muthu> jastaa: did media streaming work?
Mar 11 13:56:07 <muthu> http://dtmilano.blogspot.com/2008/03/android-playing-with-intents-this.html
Mar 11 14:47:47 <Zer0Her0> where would i find what the current version # for android eclipse plugins is?
Mar 11 14:48:02 <Zer0Her0> eclipse is saying it has the newest, but i had the same problem with the last update
Mar 11 14:56:26 <jasta> muthu: no, not at all.
Mar 11 14:56:45 <jasta> muthu: i don't have a clue how i'm going to work around this either
Mar 11 15:00:57 <muthu> jasta: use the dtmilano intent player to quickly test intents
Mar 11 15:01:16 <muthu> when i tried to play your mp3, got an format not supported exception
Mar 11 15:01:49 <jasta> what does that tell me?
Mar 11 15:03:04 <muthu> if you want to stream.. you need to pick the supported format
Mar 11 15:03:24 <jasta> which is what, only mp4?
Mar 11 15:03:31 <muthu> i guess
Mar 11 15:03:43 <jasta> that is not acceptable, and frankly pretty stupid
Mar 11 15:03:50 <muthu> yes
Mar 11 15:04:07 <jasta> worse still, streaming in this way isn't even what i need.
Mar 11 15:04:18 <muthu> that's what i thought
Mar 11 15:04:35 <davidw> until it's set in stone on phones, limitations don't matter *that* much if you can do a proof of concept
Mar 11 15:04:43 <jasta> i need a way to much more finely control the streaming, since i will be controlling the download in a service and accessing it through an activity.
Mar 11 15:04:54 <davidw> but in your case it looks like the proof of concept might be tough:-/
Mar 11 15:05:31 <muthu> is there any 3rd party libs?
Mar 11 15:05:58 <jasta> muthu: to output to the Android audio system?  Unlikely, it looks like they are using a custom audio driver.
Mar 11 15:06:09 <jasta> No idea how to access it at present.
Mar 11 15:06:19 <davidw> strace it:-) didn't someone get that working?
Mar 11 15:07:29 <muthu> i'm bundling a couple of videos, and mocking it up
Mar 11 15:07:39 <muthu> the real streaming is too much to handle now
Mar 11 15:07:58 <jasta> i think what i'll do is simply disable streaming, but still support the download and playback.
Mar 11 15:08:05 <jasta> it will just require that you wait until the file is fully downloaded
Mar 11 15:08:14 <muthu> correct
Mar 11 15:08:24 <jasta> and maybe play a looping mp3 that says "Android streaming is broken; otherwise, your file would be playing." :P
Mar 11 15:08:33 <muthu> ha ha
Mar 11 15:08:35 <muthu> lol
Mar 11 15:08:52 <muthu> you'll be hired by google :)
Mar 11 15:10:29 <mypapit> -.-. --.-
Mar 11 15:10:46 <jasta> i guess that won't be too bad anyway.  for the challenge submission, my music will only be dummy anyway
Mar 11 15:11:03 <jasta> i'm just going to write a script to replace every song with a few minutes of festival talking ;P
Mar 11 15:11:18 <jasta> the speech synthesis tool, festival, I mean. :)
Mar 11 15:11:32 <muthu> i'm off to home.. catch you later
Mar 11 15:15:57 <davidw> I f(&*&(*&( hate enterprisey programming:-(
Mar 11 15:16:17 <davidw> jasta, I'm sure you could find public domain music
Mar 11 15:16:57 <jasta> nah, i'd rather just loop festival output :)
Mar 11 15:17:16 <jasta> it'd be easier to script and still show off a typical music collection (mine)
Mar 11 15:38:59 <jasta> morning romain
Mar 11 15:39:49 <davidw> hi romain & __entourage___
Mar 11 15:40:47 <romainguy__> hi
Mar 11 15:45:23 <plusminus_> morrildl: Submitted Update to Issue 252: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=252
Mar 11 15:46:25 <plusminus_> (Passing Bundle over Intent fails (Bundle-internal-mMap gets null))
Mar 11 16:02:34 * jasta morrildl 
Mar 11 16:02:45 <morrildl> jasta: ?
Mar 11 16:02:46 * jasta pokes morrildl 
Mar 11 16:02:47 <jasta> :P
Mar 11 16:02:48 <jasta> i meant
Mar 11 16:03:08 <jasta> morrildl: i really need some insight into these MediaPlayer issues i've been hitting lately.  could you help me out?
Mar 11 16:03:38 <morrildl> jasta: yeah, working on it :(
Mar 11 16:04:29 <jasta> if nothing else, i need a recommended approach for my ADC submission, so as to ensure i will not be negatively judged.
Mar 11 16:04:56 <jasta> without proper streaming media, basically the main purpose of my app won't work and so it would be hard to find value in using it :)
Mar 11 16:08:20 <morrildl> jasta: is it safe to summarize that local media works, but streaming media doesn't?
Mar 11 16:08:43 <jasta> in a sense, but not well for my purposes.
Mar 11 16:08:59 <morrildl> yeah
Mar 11 16:09:25 <jasta> my system must both stream and cache the incoming media.  the current platform is disasteriously insufficient for that.
Mar 11 16:09:49 <morrildl> caching may or may not be supported right now, intentionally (at least, caching a live stream)
Mar 11 16:10:06 <jasta> i'm fine managing the streaming myself entirely.  but then i would need a way to feed data to the MediaPlayer as it was made available to me.
Mar 11 16:10:12 <morrildl> right
Mar 11 16:10:36 <jasta> really, my design can be made flexible.  there doesn't seem to be even 1 way to attack the issue with the way MediaPlayer is designed though.
Mar 11 16:11:15 <morrildl> jasta: on-the-fly "stream routing" is not currently a high priority
Mar 11 16:11:31 <morrildl> the reason is that if it exists, there will be temptation for developers to use it for dynamic audio processing
Mar 11 16:11:47 <jasta> what do you mean?
Mar 11 16:11:47 <morrildl> and at least for now, we aren't super-focused on that as a use case :)
Mar 11 16:12:01 <morrildl> injecting obscene noises into phone calls :)
Mar 11 16:12:10 <morrildl> Darth Vader voice masks
Mar 11 16:12:11 <morrildl> that kind of thing
Mar 11 16:12:14 <jasta> oh yeah hehe
Mar 11 16:12:36 <jasta> well, the bottom line is that this limitation is a really big problem for my ADC project.
Mar 11 16:12:53 <morrildl> Right now I am looking into what's actually *supposed* to be supported
Mar 11 16:13:15 <morrildl> In M3 a lot of this was placeholder stuff, but I had understood a lot of it to be fixed/fleshed-out in M5
Mar 11 16:13:33 <morrildl> so that's the first step, right now I don't have an answer for you :)
Mar 11 16:13:44 <jasta> well, i appreciate you looking into it
Mar 11 16:13:49 <jasta> i need some direction for sure :)
Mar 11 16:13:58 <jasta> i will be working on other areas of my code until i hear back :)
Mar 11 16:14:02 <morrildl> Yeha, I'll keep harassing people :)
Mar 11 16:14:25 <romainguy__> oh yes morrildl, harass us :)
Mar 11 16:14:46 <morrildl> hey, you're not doing the media framework, romainguy__, what are you worried about? ;)
Mar 11 16:14:57 <jasta> if you want my two cents, i think the most flexible design here would be to allow us to pass in a specialized InputStream instance.
Mar 11 16:15:07 <romainguy__> morrildl: that it will end up being a ListView bug :)
Mar 11 16:16:44 <jasta> because my design manages the cache and download in a service, with the service just reporting back to the activity when it should be ready to start streaming.  but for that to work, i'd need an intermediate InputStream that can be passed to the MediaPlayer because just opening the file on disk would not work at all :)
Mar 11 16:18:05 <davidw> +1 for InputStream - that would make it easy for me too: http://journal.dedasys.com/articles/2008/03/09/bypassing-androids-resources
Mar 11 16:19:31 <jasta> AFAICT, there is no IPC happening with the MediaPlayer so there would not be some insane performance hit with this approach
Mar 11 16:19:39 <plusminus_> morrildl: Maybe if you got some sparetime you could have a look at    Issue 252: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=252
Mar 11 16:19:54 <plusminus_> I attached a project showing the bug
Mar 11 16:30:01 <morrildl> plusminus_: yeah, I saw that and updated the bug -- thanks for the attachment
Mar 11 16:31:17 <plusminus_> morrildl: so you could reproduce it. Fine :)
Mar 11 16:35:53 <davidw> that google I/O thing looks cool.  I'm in a dangerous phase where it's been a while since I've been in the bay area and am starting to forget what I dislike about it and remember only the cool stuff + seeing all the events and things...
Mar 11 16:37:01 * plusminus_ dying of not being able to get to Google I/O
Mar 11 16:37:40 <plusminus_> life sometimes sucks !!!
Mar 11 16:38:04 * morrildl applies hypnosis
Mar 11 16:38:09 <morrildl> daaaaaaaaaavidw!!
Mar 11 16:38:14 <morrildl> you are getting sleeeeeeeeeeepy!
Mar 11 16:38:21 <morrildl> you will come to the baaaaaay aaaaaaaaaaaaaarea!
Mar 11 16:39:14 <plusminus_> smashed his laptop, falling asleep §"%&()§"%&?!§(&)
Mar 11 16:41:05 <davidw> eheheh... I want to take some aspects of everywhere I've lived and build a davidwland.  Not being able to do this, after having enjoyed various things in different places, is a source of great frustration:-)
Mar 11 16:41:19 <morrildl> ha
Mar 11 16:41:24 <morrildl> yeah I wish I could do that
Mar 11 16:41:44 <morrildl> I would pick up our house from NY, a few restaurants from Atlanta, the scenery from around my parents' house, ...
Mar 11 16:42:40 <plusminus_> sounds like SecondLife... *hiding_in_a_corner*
Mar 11 16:43:08 <plusminus_> btw, can the Dot in the center of a MapView be hidden ?
Mar 11 16:43:46 <davidw> plusminus_, no, Google bought the "Dot in Dot Com" from Sun at great expense and needs a place to show it off
Mar 11 16:44:16 <plusminus_> ^^
Mar 11 16:44:45 <Aetmos>  I never really understood that ad
Mar 11 16:46:31 <plusminus_> so i assume you also know no way ...
Mar 11 16:46:34 <davidw> Aetmos, I guess it sounds cool in a marketing kind of way... a clever play on words
Mar 11 16:47:44 <Aetmos> davidw: Yeah, I get the play on words part, but what does it mean? Maybe I'm searching for deeper meaning in an empty metaphor
Mar 11 16:48:23 <plusminus_> "being the center of it all" ??
Mar 11 16:48:46 <jasta> plusminus_: Google I/O doesn't look like there is much info about Android, actually.
Mar 11 16:49:06 <davidw> jasta, there are several sessions, actually:
Mar 11 16:49:14 <jasta> gears could be kind of interesting, though.
Mar 11 16:49:17 <plusminus_> the mail said there will be some info on android
Mar 11 16:49:27 <davidw> http://code.google.com/events/io/sessions.html#mobile
Mar 11 16:49:28 <jasta> davidw: Yeah, but they all look pretty trivial.  At least all of us here know most of that info already.
Mar 11 16:49:29 <Aetmos> plusminus_: I suppose, but has Sun really ever been at the center of all things .com?
Mar 11 16:49:31 <davidw> dalvik internals
Mar 11 16:49:36 <plusminus_> ... maps and social would be interesting
Mar 11 16:49:47 <jasta> dalvik internals looks interesting, but they mention there is "some" detail, not a lot of detail :)
Mar 11 16:49:48 <Aetmos> I mean, if Apache wanted to say that, I could understand it...
Mar 11 16:50:05 <plusminus_> Aetmos: my english is probably not good enough to decode such ... wordplays
Mar 11 16:50:15 <jasta> i dunno, i may go, but mostly just to see my buddy in SF :)
Mar 11 16:50:21 <davidw> jasta, well, it depends on how much you can squeeze out of the guy:-)
Mar 11 16:50:29 <jasta> i haven't been down to visit him once since he left last March
Mar 11 16:50:42 <plusminus_> I assume no one of you is a millionaori ?
Mar 11 16:50:47 <morrildl> well, the Dalvik Internals session is going to be by Dan Bornstein, who is the tech lead
Mar 11 16:50:49 <jasta> plusminus_: Why?
Mar 11 16:50:50 <plusminus_> millionaire
Mar 11 16:50:55 <Aetmos> plusminus_: where are you from?
Mar 11 16:50:58 <plusminus_> germany
Mar 11 16:51:04 <Aetmos> Ah
Mar 11 16:51:15 <Aetmos> Guten Tag
Mar 11 16:51:15 <plusminus_> transatlantic flights are not that cheap :(
Mar 11 16:51:17 * davidw was when the italian lira was still a valid currency... other than that, sadly, no
Mar 11 16:51:19 <plusminus_> ^^
Mar 11 16:51:20 <morrildl> There's also a panel discussion
Mar 11 16:51:38 <morrildl> (which will include as many of the eng team as we can round up that day :))
Mar 11 16:52:09 <morrildl> the "building apps" sessions are intended to be fairly thorough too
Mar 11 16:52:42 <morrildl> the biggest draw is probably the chance to meet me! Dan! SUPAHSTAH!         :P
Mar 11 16:52:54 <morrildl> (or maybe biggest reason not to go I guess)
Mar 11 16:53:09 <plusminus_> lol
Mar 11 16:53:22 <plusminus_> you seem to be a really nice guy :)
Mar 11 16:53:23 <jasta> morrildl: I looked at the list of folks there and none of the Android people are listed even.
Mar 11 16:53:32 * plusminus_ g2g
Mar 11 16:54:42 <jasta> I mean on the speakers page.  Not one Android engineer.
Mar 11 16:55:33 <morrildl> heh, neat
Mar 11 16:55:40 <muthu> engineers don't speak ;)
Mar 11 16:55:48 <morrildl> I'll have to get them to fix that :P
Mar 11 16:58:25 <muthu> Location, Location, Location - that's what i'm interested
Mar 11 16:59:14 <muthu> unfortunately i'm in the wrong location
Mar 11 17:01:54 <jasta> morrildl: I'm only interested in going to meet Android engineers, really.  So that none are present, ... :)
Mar 11 17:04:11 <Aetmos> morrildl: Ooh, you just accepted my bug (320)! ;-)
Mar 11 17:04:26 <morrildl> Aetmos: probably, yes :)
Mar 11 17:04:27 <jasta> Let's make romain go, he's the only one that ever talks to us anyway :)
Mar 11 17:04:45 <Aetmos> Thanks
Mar 11 17:10:38 <romainguy_> muthu: engineers don't speak << I do :))
Mar 11 17:11:22 <jasta> See, we should make romain go :)
Mar 11 17:12:19 <jasta> I would love to meet Dianne too :)
Mar 11 17:15:36 <davidw> who's that?
Mar 11 17:16:36 <romainguy_> hackbod on the mailing list
Mar 11 17:29:16 <davidw> oh, ok
Mar 11 18:01:19 <hans2k> hi, just a little question, I want to run a java class in android, and want to start this on a button listener, the class works fine without android, but i cant get it into work with android... or is it not possible to start a different class?
Mar 11 18:01:48 <plusminus_> Android != Java
Mar 11 18:02:17 <hans2k> so i cant run java classes?
Mar 11 18:02:17 <plusminus_> Java(Swing): JFrame    / Android: Activity
Mar 11 18:02:32 <plusminus_> you mean with static void main ?
Mar 11 18:02:46 <hans2k> yes
Mar 11 18:02:52 <plusminus_> nope
Mar 11 18:03:16 <hans2k> but i cant put this into a different class to start it....so its not necessary to be in the class
Mar 11 18:03:25 <hans2k> cant = can
Mar 11 18:03:33 <plusminus_> instead of a static void main, you wrap a small Activity around
Mar 11 18:04:04 <plusminus_> if you create a new Android Application in Eclipse, you have that very basic structure.
Mar 11 18:04:14 * plusminus_ afk
Mar 11 18:05:17 <hans2k> yes, i have still an user interface the activity works fine, but now i want to start the other class via an button or the menu
Mar 11 18:07:23 <plusminus_> the "other class" is an Activity? what at all do you mean by "run" and "start"...?
Mar 11 18:08:33 <hans2k> i have 1 activity (and 1 service) this activity should start an normal java class
Mar 11 18:09:05 <plusminus_> .. with static void main ? (Not possible)
Mar 11 18:09:21 <romainguy_> well you can invoke the main() method
Mar 11 18:09:25 <romainguy_> that's not an issue
Mar 11 18:09:37 <romainguy_> but that's probably not what you want to do ^^
Mar 11 18:09:38 <plusminus_> ok you can but probably not the way he is thinking
Mar 11 18:09:43 <plusminus_> ;)
Mar 11 18:10:26 <davidw> morrildl, any idea about getting access to the phone number when the 'phone call' intent is broadcast?
Mar 11 18:11:14 <hans2k> hm... i dont kno, the normal class has the public static void main, but its not necessary to be there... be cause i want to start it via "new my2class(...)"
Mar 11 18:12:16 <plusminus_> once again, what do you mean with "start"
Mar 11 18:12:41 <plusminus_> new xyz(); // Constructs just object of type xyz
Mar 11 18:13:36 <hans2k> the normal class looks like:
Mar 11 18:13:36 <hans2k> public class my2class{
Mar 11 18:13:36 <hans2k>    public my2class(){
Mar 11 18:13:36 <hans2k>         run()
Mar 11 18:13:36 <hans2k>       }
Mar 11 18:13:37 <hans2k>    void run(){....}
Mar 11 18:13:39 <hans2k> }
Mar 11 18:15:07 <plusminus_> is it a Thread ?
Mar 11 18:16:18 <hans2k> when I know want to start this I normally construct a new object in a public static void main { with new my2class() }
Mar 11 18:16:31 <plusminus_> if you call the constructor as you posted, it will simply create the object of type my2class and execute the run() synchronously
Mar 11 18:16:51 <plusminus_> you can do the same in any other method
Mar 11 18:16:57 <plusminus_> i.e. onCreate(..)
Mar 11 18:17:34 <hans2k> yeah thats all I need (I guess) so I just thought I can copy the constructor to the menu/button onclicklistener
Mar 11 18:17:51 <plusminus_> of course, why not
Mar 11 18:18:53 <hans2k> hm... ok...but it wont work thats the problem, so I thought maybe android didnt allow this...
Mar 11 18:19:49 <plusminus_> you code, using the Java-Language, but in the end it is no more Java, but Dalvik-Bytecode.
Mar 11 18:20:17 * plusminus_ n/a
Mar 11 18:21:07 <hans2k> what does this mean? only the android library is supported or can I just add additional libraries? i guess yes?
Mar 11 18:31:11 <jasta> morrildl: you just processed this issue:
Mar 11 18:31:24 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=398
Mar 11 18:31:41 <morrildl> jasta: Indeed.
Mar 11 18:32:13 <jasta> implementing these suggestions would be acceptable for my usage.
Mar 11 18:32:31 <morrildl> jasta: okay, cool
Mar 11 18:32:35 <morrildl> pls comment to that effect on the bug
Mar 11 18:32:36 <jasta> i mean, this would work for me :)
Mar 11 18:33:12 <morrildl> It's a really good writeup, so the more comments the better :)
Mar 11 18:33:20 <jasta> specifically #1; the ideal usage case for me would be to allow the MediaPlayer to accept an InputStream of my design, that way I can throttle it using java.nio.* from a file on the sd card.
Mar 11 18:34:17 <jasta> so in this way I could use MediaPlayer to stream from a file being written to disk by another process
Mar 11 18:34:32 <jasta> sort of a producer/consumer IPC relationship through a file
Mar 11 18:52:20 <davidw> that's more or less like the report I filed
Mar 11 18:52:40 <davidw> depending on how much one wants to break out "mediaplayer problems" into separate reports
Mar 11 18:53:09 <Aetmos> Does anybody else ever have LogCat in DDMS just randomly stop logging, forcing you to restart Eclipse?
Mar 11 18:53:34 <chomchom> Click on the instance of the emulator
Mar 11 18:53:41 <chomchom> you don't have to restart
Mar 11 18:54:45 <Aetmos> You mean in the "Devices" tab? I tried that...no dice
Mar 11 18:55:06 <chomchom> Yeah if you click up and down and around the stack it should kick in
Mar 11 18:55:20 <Aetmos> hmmm
Mar 11 18:55:58 <Aetmos> Nope...nothing...
Mar 11 18:56:01 * Aetmos shrugs
Mar 11 18:58:45 <Aetmos> I think it happens when I switch between "Run As" and "Debug As"
Mar 11 19:00:36 <Aetmos> I tried explaining to LogCat that it was being needlessly obstinate, but it didn't seem to work... ;-(
Mar 11 19:04:29 <Aetmos> Does anybody know of any particularly good way of converting a GPS location into a physical address? Or even a city?
Mar 11 19:07:00 <Aetmos> Like, I know I can plot a GPS point on a MapActivity, but all I really want is a way to look up the city/country/etc. that a GPS point is located in
Mar 11 19:12:36 <Aetmos> It would seem that what I'm looking for is called Reverse Geocoding...
Mar 11 19:16:02 <davidw> yep
Mar 11 19:16:20 <Aetmos> And I guess it doesn't work yet...
Mar 11 19:16:39 <Aetmos> :-(
Mar 11 19:35:18 <hans2k> is it possible to import jar files to the android library?
Mar 11 19:41:02 <Aetmos> Okay, so I'm fairly new to Java, but why is Eclipse telling me that
Mar 11 19:41:05 <Aetmos> ...
Mar 11 19:41:11 <Aetmos> "This method has a constructor name"
Mar 11 19:41:13 <Aetmos> ?
Mar 11 19:41:21 <Aetmos> I mean, it does, but why is it a warning?
Mar 11 19:42:06 <acsia> I am back! finally after a week of vacation...
Mar 11 19:42:10 <Aetmos> hi
Mar 11 19:43:06 <acsia> hi
Mar 11 19:43:15 <acsia> does anybody know how to get the uid?
Mar 11 19:43:32 <acsia> in PackageManager getPackagesForUid(int uid)
Mar 11 19:48:36 <acsia> it s my bday today...
Mar 11 19:48:55 <Aetmos> happy birthday
Mar 11 19:49:02 <acsia> thanks :)
Mar 11 19:49:28 <acsia> drinking wine and playing with android, I am not sure if it is sad or respectful
Mar 11 19:49:48 <Aetmos> what kind of wine?
Mar 11 19:49:59 <Aetmos> boons=sad
Mar 11 19:50:00 <acsia> Saint Emilion, just came back from Paris
Mar 11 19:50:18 <Aetmos> good enough for me...you've earned yourself a "respectful"
Mar 11 19:50:31 <acsia> :)
Mar 11 19:50:33 * Aetmos congratulates acsia
Mar 11 19:50:51 <acsia> now, will it improve my coding skills
Mar 11 19:50:58 <Aetmos> no
Mar 11 19:51:10 <acsia> arf
Mar 11 19:51:14 <Aetmos> It might improve your dancing skills
Mar 11 19:51:22 <acsia> I doubt that as well
Mar 11 19:51:52 <acsia> do you know Ian Curtis from Joy division?
Mar 11 19:51:58 <acsia> I have a similar dance style
Mar 11 19:52:19 <Aetmos> ah
Mar 11 19:52:54 <Aetmos> well, have you tried adding copious amounts of wine?
Mar 11 19:54:18 <acsia> yes and I think it just reduces my trust in my skills to a near nil
Mar 11 19:54:41 <acsia> I broke the teeth of a girls once beleiving I could take her on my back
Mar 11 19:54:48 <acsia> girl singular
Mar 11 19:54:48 <Aetmos> Ah
Mar 11 19:55:11 <Aetmos> Have you tried something stronger? Maybe Vodka or Rum?
Mar 11 19:55:28 <acsia> vodka is a good choice actually
Mar 11 19:55:34 <acsia> I went to moscow once
Mar 11 19:55:58 <acsia> I had like half a liter a day of vodka for 2 weeks... I don tunderstand how they survive a year over there
Mar 11 19:55:58 <Aetmos> I've heard they do enjoy their Vodka there
Mar 11 19:56:15 <Aetmos> A friend when to Poland a few years ago and came back with a lot of vodka
Mar 11 19:56:21 <acsia> amazing, one moscovite told me their secret
Mar 11 19:56:30 <acsia> Polish vodka is the best
Mar 11 19:56:44 <Aetmos> What's their secret? Metal stomaches?
Mar 11 19:56:53 <acsia> the secret is: either eat something after a shot (eg bread or cucumber etc...)
Mar 11 19:57:07 <acsia> either smell it (but that is for the hardcore ones)
Mar 11 19:58:28 <acsia> I shall get back to my party - my flatmates organized it - now you might want to reconsider the sad/respect question
Mar 11 19:58:48 <Aetmos> Well, enjoy your party
Mar 11 19:59:10 <acsia> thanks
Mar 11 19:59:12 <acsia> ttyl
Mar 11 19:59:17 <Aetmos> cya
Mar 11 20:13:08 <chaosvoyager> What's the best way to put Views on a Map, and make sure they're proportional to it?
Mar 11 20:17:54 <Aetmos> I think all the answer-people are gone ;-)
Mar 11 20:23:49 <chaosvoyager> Perhaps they're elsewhere using their answer giving powers to fight the forces of darkness.
Mar 11 20:24:20 <chaosvoyager> I know that's usually the case with me.
Mar 11 20:24:30 <Aetmos> porbably
Mar 11 20:24:35 <Aetmos> probably
Mar 11 20:32:58 <chaosvoyager> Access to the iPhone via the SDK turned out to be more limited than I hoped :(
Mar 11 20:33:26 <f00f-> yeah
Mar 11 20:33:33 <f00f-> i cant resolve blablabla.corp.apple.com
Mar 11 20:33:43 <f00f-> so i can't even download
Mar 11 20:33:44 <f00f-> *
Mar 11 20:33:46 <f00f-> get to the download page
Mar 11 20:34:05 <chaosvoyager> And no iPhone in Canada.
Mar 11 20:34:08 <f00f-> someone hook it up
Mar 11 20:34:22 <f00f-> actually don't, i dont want to touch objective c
Mar 11 20:34:49 <f00f-> it'll come chaosvoyager, it'll come
Mar 11 20:35:26 <Bonkers> if you know C, you can learn objective c in a day
Mar 11 20:35:32 <Bonkers> it's a strict superset
Mar 11 20:35:46 <chaosvoyager> Yes, but I've been waiting for the future to get here for the last 10 years :(
Mar 11 20:38:19 <f00f-> blame canada!
Mar 11 20:39:45 <chaosvoyager> Already did, and they APOLOGIZED! I didn't even tell them what I was accusing them of. It's impossible to be angry with them.
Mar 11 20:39:54 <chaosvoyager> I'd be up there if it wasn't so cold.
Mar 11 20:40:36 <chaosvoyager> Though for all its problems, I do like NY.
Mar 11 20:41:19 <chaosvoyager> It's like a nature reserve for psychological wildlife.
Mar 11 20:43:32 * davidw is pretty big on the 'open' thing, thus Android is a clear choice for me
Mar 11 20:45:15 <jasta> i am hoping to hack the hell out of my phone ;P
Mar 11 20:45:59 <jasta> i want to buy a family plan and embed a cell radio in my car, wire it up to a custom stereo system and have an internet jukebox in my car.
Mar 11 20:45:59 <f00f-> android is far from open
Mar 11 20:46:03 <f00f-> closed, with all this _id garbage
Mar 11 20:46:05 <jasta> no, not really, but i want to be able to if i wasnt so lazy
Mar 11 20:46:42 <jasta> f00f-: I'd say having kernel source code and a shell is pretty god damn open.
Mar 11 20:46:48 <chaosvoyager> Yeah, I suspect Android is going to fork like rabbits once it is open. And I suspect a lot of people will be hitting the Linux layer.
Mar 11 20:46:52 <davidw> f00f-, well, for the time being the source code isn't available, but it will be.
Mar 11 20:47:09 <Bonkers> jasta: are you saying you want to hear music over a cell voice connection?
Mar 11 20:47:17 <jasta> f00f-: As far as "hackable" is concerned, the Linux layer is the dreamy part.
Mar 11 20:47:20 <f00f-> it'll be truly open when Dalvik VM and format are open-sourced
Mar 11 20:47:23 <jasta> Bonkers: No, using the cell data connection.
Mar 11 20:47:44 <davidw> chaosvoyager, could be, but those forks ending up on phones might be another matter
Mar 11 20:48:42 <jasta> Bonkers: It would be awesome ;)  but i'm probably too lazy.
Mar 11 20:48:55 <jasta> But I like the idea of being able to hehe.  So I hope Android facilitates that type of bizarre thinking.
Mar 11 20:49:17 <jasta> I hope Android makes it possible for hobbyist to embed cell phone radio chips in all sorts of things.
Mar 11 20:49:32 <chaosvoyager> davidw: Well, it's not just the users who will be forking Android, but the vendors. I don't have high hopes that Android applications will be any more portable across devices than JavaME is.
Mar 11 20:49:41 <jasta> And really, it's already doing it: commercially supported Linux drivers for these radios is a HUGE advancement toward hackable cellular technology
Mar 11 20:49:52 <davidw> chaosvoyager, that might be a big problem... we'll see, I guess
Mar 11 20:51:04 <f00f-> anyone here develop Java ME apps that are in production?
Mar 11 20:51:23 <chaosvoyager> Not I.
Mar 11 20:51:30 <jasta> of course not, it's barely even possible ;)
Mar 11 20:51:43 <davidw> f00f-, people use Hecl here and there.
Mar 11 20:52:40 <chaosvoyager> Strangely though nobody seems to use Smalltalk.
Mar 11 20:53:02 <f00f-> smalltalk is dead
Mar 11 20:53:36 <f00f-> right david
Mar 11 20:53:48 <f00f-> but no larger standalone apps
Mar 11 20:56:21 <davidw> f00f-, shoplist.dedasys.com - but that's a small, simple app
Mar 11 20:56:47 <chaosvoyager> And yet it keeps popping up in other languages and tools. Objective-C is C+Smalltalk, Ruby is Perl+Smalltalk. Heck, Java began life as a classless Smalltalk, and the genesis of Eclipse was IBM's smalltalk IDE.
Mar 11 20:57:07 <chaosvoyager> And Javascript is LISP, but that's a bit of a tangent :)
Mar 11 20:57:23 <davidw> it's one of those idea languages that no one uses and everyone copies from
Mar 11 20:57:31 <davidw> I expect to see the same thing happen with Haskell
Mar 11 21:04:08 <f00f-> ah ok
Mar 11 21:04:45 <chaosvoyager> Strangely, a lot of the concepts in Haskell are already in things like C, we just didn't notice them, and can't apply them in a general way.
Mar 11 21:04:51 <f00f-> and erlang, ugh
Mar 11 21:07:04 <chaosvoyager> I like erlang's philosophy on processes though. When (not if) one crashes, you just restart it. No cleanup or finalize, because that can't be guarenteed.
Mar 11 21:07:17 <davidw> erlang is very cool
Mar 11 21:07:30 <davidw> I wrote the first version of Hecl in Erlang:-)
Mar 11 21:07:33 <Bonkers> how many other languages only let you assign a variable a value once?
Mar 11 21:07:50 <Bonkers> and why is there more than one person here who has actually heard of erlang?
Mar 11 21:08:28 <davidw> 1) that's how most functional languages work 2) because it's a very, very nice language for certain classes of problems
Mar 11 21:09:26 <f00f-> lol
Mar 11 21:09:48 <f00f-> i would have used ejabberd but it's a nightmare to debug if you don't know erland
Mar 11 21:10:04 <f00f-> native clustering/redundancy is a plus
Mar 11 21:10:08 <f00f-> but everything else is probably a minus
Mar 11 21:13:07 <davidw> erlang is used on a lot of Ericsson's higher end telephony products, apparently
Mar 11 21:13:16 <f00f-> yeah, sadly
Mar 11 21:13:36 <davidw> (not phones, N nines routers and switches and things like that)
Mar 11 21:13:39 <davidw> sadly?
Mar 11 21:14:03 <f00f-> such a sad language
Mar 11 21:14:08 <f00f-> well similarly
Mar 11 21:14:14 <davidw> what's sad about it?
Mar 11 21:14:17 <f00f-> Ada is used in a lot of Boeing flight control systems
Mar 11 21:15:03 <davidw> it's not my favorite language, but I think it's pretty cool, actually.
Mar 11 21:24:24 <chaosvoyager> Bonkers: Quite a few, but Clean and Haskell come to mind the quickest. The thing is that tehcnically all these languages CAN do things like assign new 'values' to the same 'value', but they do it in a very indirect way. The reason they play games like that is to avoid the problems inherent in shared state that can change at any time. I don't like these games, nor the way most languages deal with this problem.
Mar 11 21:24:50 <chaosvoyager> Purity for purity sake often leads to problems.
Mar 11 21:27:33 <chaosvoyager> Functional language designs tend to be really pure, but Java suffered from this as well. Inner anonymous classes are closures, only far more cumbersome to use. But Java did it that way because everything just had to be a class.
Mar 11 21:28:27 <romainguy_> chaosvoyager: actually it was to remain compatible with the previous versions
Mar 11 21:28:33 <romainguy_> chaosvoyager: not for purity
Mar 11 21:32:49 <chaosvoyager> Are we talking source or JVM compatibility?
Mar 11 21:33:09 <davidw> chaosvoyager, that's why I see something not quite as .... 'pure' as Haskell gaining traction.  Erlang sort of fits that bill, but it certainly isn't perfect either
Mar 11 21:33:15 <romainguy_> chaosvoyager: JVM
Mar 11 21:38:01 <chaosvoyager> Syntax != implementation. If it did, then we would not have languages that support closures running on the JVM. And I don't remember, but didn't Sun have to change something in the JVM to support Inner classes (again, really don't remember)?
Mar 11 21:38:24 <romainguy_> it's just a compiler trick actually
Mar 11 21:38:38 <romainguy_> the compiler generates synthesized methods
Mar 11 21:39:13 <chaosvoyager> (* looks *) crap, bb in 1.5hr.
Mar 11 23:09:38 <jasta> morrildl: Do you know what system Google is using to monitor /data/app?  inotify?  Is there a Java API provided for it?
Mar 11 23:10:10 <f00f-> inotify chowns
Mar 11 23:10:18 <f00f-> i used inotify on a uClinux kernel running on an FPGA
Mar 11 23:10:24 <f00f-> must better than polling or even dnotify
Mar 11 23:10:32 <f00f-> i love how you can recursively monitor
Mar 11 23:10:39 <f00f-> even though i didn't need it at the time
Mar 11 23:11:38 <jasta> i'm very interested in a Java API provided by Android so that I may use it as part of my own design :)
Mar 11 23:12:59 <f00f-> you should be using openFileInput and openFileOutput right
Mar 11 23:13:10 <f00f-> that's the idea of not having to mess with the FS layout
Mar 11 23:13:29 <jasta> i want to mess with the fs layer as part of my design.
Mar 11 23:14:00 <f00f-> for the music player?
Mar 11 23:14:05 <jasta> sort of ;)
Mar 11 23:15:10 <jasta> I'm hoping to hack something together to work around MediaPlayer's brokenness :)
Mar 11 23:16:16 <f00f-> ah
Mar 12 01:30:11 <Aetmo1> So I just noticed the new Android Personal Wiki application...that's funny, I was literally thinking of writing exactly that...I'm glad I decided not to.
Mar 12 01:30:57 <Aetmo1> I've written another Personal Wiki, so I thought for a while about making an Android sibling...
Mar 12 01:31:49 <Aetmo1> I'm happy they're bringing attention to personal wikis, though. I think they're great.
Mar 12 01:31:55 <Aetmo1> The End.
Mar 12 01:32:29 <Aetmo1> \nick Aetmos
Mar 12 01:32:32 <Aetmo1> crap
Mar 12 01:33:13 <Aetmos> Man, I mess that up every time...
Mar 12 01:33:23 <chomchom> heh, me too.
Mar 12 01:40:52 <chaosvoyager> Back, (wow, that took longer than I thought).
Mar 12 01:42:08 <chaosvoyager> So, what's the best way to put views over maps, and have the views synched up to the positions/proportions of the map?
Mar 12 01:43:42 <Aetmos> Hey, that's what you asked the last time you were here
Mar 12 01:44:09 <Aetmos> I still don't know the answer, though ;-)
Mar 12 01:44:33 <chomchom> Do you mean an overlay?
Mar 12 01:44:47 <chomchom> An overlay to place images on a google map?
Mar 12 01:44:54 <Aetmos> overlays are easy...I guess the part I don't know is how to scale it.
Mar 12 01:46:30 <chomchom> You mean place it in relation to the rest of the screen? Using the PixelCalculator?
Mar 12 01:47:04 <chaosvoyager> Overlays are easy, but they don't respond to events.
Mar 12 01:47:25 <Aetmos> Sure they do
Mar 12 01:47:32 <chomchom> You want to affect an overlay triggered by an event?
Mar 12 01:47:40 * Aetmos searches for a link
Mar 12 01:47:57 <chaosvoyager> They can capture motion/touch events?
Mar 12 01:48:02 <Aetmos> Yeah
Mar 12 01:48:06 <Aetmos> Well, touch anyway
Mar 12 01:48:09 <Aetmos> dunno about motion
Mar 12 01:48:40 <Aetmos> Here's one link...not the one I was looking for: http://www.anddev.org/overlay_buttons_on_map-t1284.html
Mar 12 01:48:47 <Aetmos> But it shows overlay buttons
Mar 12 01:50:58 <Aetmos> meh...there's another page over there at anddev.org that gives more code, but I can't find it right now
Mar 12 01:53:07 <chaosvoyager> Probably not necessary, from the response "but I guess we dont have any good way to place buttons on canvas So what I did was add the buttons on map activity and then later draw a transparent box on overlay" seems to imply I'll still have to use another layer.
Mar 12 01:53:53 <chaosvoyager> Basically, I'm taking the best of Google Maps, combining it with Warcraft, and making, er... MapCraft.
Mar 12 01:54:00 <Aetmos> I'm using RelativeLayout to do it
Mar 12 01:54:17 <Aetmos> WarMaps?
Mar 12 01:54:57 <Aetmos> Oh, here's the link I was looking for: http://www.anddev.org/did_anybody_tried_thismap_problem-t1266.html
Mar 12 01:54:59 <chaosvoyager> Hmm, maybe GooCraft has a better ring. 0_o
Mar 12 01:55:22 <Aetmos> World of Google might make them smile
Mar 12 01:55:32 <chaosvoyager> Heh.
Mar 12 01:57:05 <chaosvoyager> Regardless, theres lots of map panning, and the views, or overlays, need to stay where they're put relative to the map, yet also respond to user input. I should be able to flick units off the screen like flies.
Mar 12 01:57:24 <Aetmos> Oh, yeah, like I said, that's the bit I don't know how to do
Mar 12 01:57:28 <Aetmos> ;-)
Mar 12 01:57:57 <chaosvoyager> At least you're helping :)
Mar 12 01:57:58 <Aetmos> plusminus is usually here in the mornings (US CST...he's in Germany...dunno what time it is there)...he may be able to help you
Mar 12 01:59:57 <chaosvoyager> Well, romainguy is usually the one to ask about this, but we got distracted by a language discussion.
Mar 12 02:00:39 <Aetmos> Yeah, he's one of the Google Devs, isn't he?
Mar 12 02:00:44 <romainguy_> Yes indeed
Mar 12 02:01:01 <Aetmos> Well hello there
Mar 12 02:01:06 <romainguy_> Hi :)
Mar 12 02:01:22 <chaosvoyager> (* wonder if he has a script to alert him *)
Mar 12 02:01:27 <romainguy_> nope ^^
Mar 12 02:01:40 <romainguy_> but I have a big screen, so there's always some room to monitor IRC :)
Mar 12 02:01:42 <Aetmos> my IRC program goes 'bing' when somebody types my name
Mar 12 02:02:00 <Aetmos> Try it!
Mar 12 02:02:17 <chaosvoyager> *BING*
Mar 12 02:02:33 <chomchom> Aetmos: Take this.
Mar 12 02:02:36 <Aetmos> Bing!
Mar 12 02:02:42 <chaosvoyager> (* wondered if it worked in reverse *)
Mar 12 02:02:57 <Aetmos> chaosvoyager: I don't think so...I didn't hear my name
Mar 12 02:03:05 <chaosvoyager> :P
Mar 12 02:03:34 <chaosvoyager> romainguy: anyway, have you any insight into my inquiry?
Mar 12 02:03:43 <romainguy_> About Maps?
Mar 12 02:06:28 <chaosvoyager> Well, and keeping views synched proportionally/positionally with it, unless overlays can respond to motion events now or in the future.
Mar 12 02:06:44 <chaosvoyager> I hear it's planned, but...
Mar 12 02:07:00 <romainguy_> Hmm I have no clue on how you would do this
Mar 12 02:07:08 <romainguy_> I'm pretty sure I've seen overlays that react to touch event
Mar 12 02:07:24 <Aetmos> http://www.anddev.org/did_anybody_tried_thismap_problem-t1266.html
Mar 12 02:07:59 <chaosvoyager> (* damns his new ikeaboard and vows to take it back to the hell from which it was purchased *)
Mar 12 02:08:11 <Aetmos> ikea makes keyboards?
Mar 12 02:08:40 <Aetmos> Does it have an umlaut key?
Mar 12 02:09:06 <chaosvoyager> No, but if they did, it would be similar.
Mar 12 02:09:39 <Aetmos> stylish, but not long-lasting?
Mar 12 02:10:17 <chaosvoyager> Stylish? Utilitarian perhaps.
Mar 12 02:10:55 <chaosvoyager> I'm just going to get a PS2/USB adapter and use my IBM kb. F$#@ the windows key.
Mar 12 02:11:13 <Aetmos> YEAH! TAKE THAT WINDOWS KEY!
Mar 12 02:13:52 <chaosvoyager> Screw it, I'm getting a Das Keyboard. Why a blank keyboard is so expensive is beyond me however.
Mar 12 02:14:27 <Aetmos> I like the OLED one that you can change the key values
Mar 12 02:14:41 <Aetmos> But I sold out and bought a MS Natural
Mar 12 02:16:13 <chaosvoyager> MS makes exceptionally good HW. I've never faulted them on that. People still pay big bucks for the Sidewinder force feedback when they can find them.
Mar 12 02:16:40 <Aetmos> That's true. I've burned through two MS Natural Keyboards already, though
Mar 12 02:16:51 <Aetmos> I like the feel of them, though, so I keep buying them
Mar 12 02:17:24 <Aetmos> One of their deaths wasn't technically the keyboards fault. A large cup of coffee hastened it's doom
Mar 12 02:17:30 <Aetmos> The other one just stopped working though
Mar 12 02:18:03 <chaosvoyager> I tend to program, how shall we say, passionately. So I either get really cheap keyboards, or really old but solid ones, to use.
Mar 12 02:18:35 <chomchom> The new mac keyboard is absolutely ace, before that my fave was definitely the microsoft one as well. Looks too slim to be good but all the buttons really poke out and are nice to hit.
Mar 12 02:18:40 <chaosvoyager> For the last six months I've been using the return key on the numpad because the other one, um, got tired.
Mar 12 02:18:56 <Aetmos> heh ;-)
Mar 12 02:19:35 <chaosvoyager> Heh, coffee. That's one thing this keyboard claims to be immune to, and no, it's not one of those membrane only things.
Mar 12 02:27:27 <chaosvoyager> I kinda wished Android had seperated out the part of Maps which acts as a large bitmap viewer that only holds part of the image data locally.
Mar 12 02:31:32 <chaosvoyager> romainguy: how is Google going to support multitouch with all the patents likely hiding in the all concealing darkenss.
Mar 12 02:32:15 <chaosvoyager> er... "?" not "."
Mar 12 02:32:39 <chaosvoyager> (* blast you keyboard and your giant enter key *)
Mar 12 02:34:59 <Aetmos> I imagine they'll have to battle it out with Apple an MS
Mar 12 02:35:03 <Aetmos> and
Mar 12 02:35:19 <Aetmos> And probably end up settling for an obscene amount of money
Mar 12 02:36:42 <chaosvoyager> Well, I kinda wish Google would take the hit if it provides more utility for end developers, but I'm not sure they can do that as a public company.
Mar 12 02:37:33 <Aetmos> I gotta admit, the multi-touch on my iTouch is really slick
Mar 12 02:39:23 <chaosvoyager> Apple really had their ducks in a row on that one.
Mar 12 02:41:01 <Aetmos> They dropped the ball with the SDK though
Mar 12 02:41:30 <chaosvoyager> In what way? (and I agree)
Mar 12 02:42:17 <Aetmos> It's nuts that they have a device with so many cool features, like a tilt-sensor, multi-touch, and accelerometer, and no applications that support it...
Mar 12 02:42:25 <Aetmos> ...unless you jailbreak the phone
Mar 12 02:42:31 <chaosvoyager> 0_o
Mar 12 02:42:39 <chaosvoyager> Have you seen supermonkeyball?
Mar 12 02:42:45 <thedaniel`> romainguy_: lst night i threw an issue i was having at the channel but i haven't quite worked it out - do you mind weighing in? i have this layout xml http://pastebin.org/23352 and this method: http://pastebin.org/23353
Mar 12 02:42:49 <Aetmos> There's a supermonkeyball!!!!?!?!?
Mar 12 02:43:01 <thedaniel`> anyway, i'd like to be able to create new EditTexts below the existing one
Mar 12 02:43:05 <Aetmos> How do you get it?
Mar 12 02:43:11 <chaosvoyager> Yes. It was demoed at the SDK press conference/event
Mar 12 02:43:14 <thedaniel`> but the new ones render on top of the old ones!
Mar 12 02:43:22 <thedaniel`> rather than flowing down the screen
Mar 12 02:43:37 <Aetmos> chaosvoyager: Oh, see, and we won't be able to get that until at least June? That's nuts
Mar 12 02:44:07 <Aetmos> They have what is potentially the most revolutionary gaming device seen in years, and no official games
Mar 12 02:44:40 <Aetmos> Like, if I could buy super monkey ball right now, I totally would
Mar 12 02:44:44 <Aetmos> But I can't
Mar 12 02:47:13 <chaosvoyager> No, people won't be able to BUY stuff for it until June, but right now you can develop for it (free SDK), and test it on actual iPhone/iTouch hardware ($99).
Mar 12 02:47:37 <Aetmos> I thought the SDK was limited to the emulator?
Mar 12 02:48:18 <thedaniel`> Aetmos: no, but you can't test your apps on real hardware until you buy a key by paying 99 to join the developer program
Mar 12 02:48:45 <Aetmos> Oh, well that's better anyway. Still, can't believe they're making everybody wait until June...
Mar 12 02:48:45 <chaosvoyager> Not for 'members'. The fee sucks, but compared to all the other commercial vendors, thi8s is a lot more reasonable.
Mar 12 02:49:05 <chaosvoyager> Aetmos: Those Bastards! :)
Mar 12 02:49:07 <Aetmos> As far as distribution goes, yeah, $99 isn't bad.
Mar 12 02:49:22 <chaosvoyager> 70% return doesn't hurt either
Mar 12 02:50:07 <Aetmos> Can't complain, I just think they need to get their act together with a device that's already widely available
Mar 12 02:51:01 <chaosvoyager> iPhone Problem #1: No background tasks. If your app isn't displayed, it isn't running.
Mar 12 02:52:01 <Aetmos> chaosvoyager: I don't think that's true...
Mar 12 02:52:11 <thedaniel`> romainguy_: nvm, i got it
Mar 12 02:52:20 <Aetmos> chaosvoyager: the audio player is an example
Mar 12 02:52:21 <thedaniel`> by putting a linearlayout inside the scroll like in the api demos
Mar 12 02:52:35 <thedaniel`> dammit i coulda sworn i tried that around 3 last night
Mar 12 02:53:10 <chaosvoyager> Aetmos: I'm talking about what the SDK/AppStore permits.
Mar 12 02:53:28 <Aetmos> Oh, that's weird
Mar 12 02:53:32 <chaosvoyager> Scratch that though, problem #1 is you don't have access to the voice and SMS functionality >_<
Mar 12 02:55:21 <Aetmos> yeah, I heard they were blocking that
Mar 12 02:56:33 <chaosvoyager> But anyway, with SMS, wireless and GPS becomming widely available, Google should provide some kind of device locator service called, I dunno, Google Stuff.
Mar 12 02:57:27 <Aetmos> Well, time to watch the Daily Show and eat ice cream. ttyl
Mar 12 02:58:13 <chaosvoyager> Ice cream AND daily show? damn you.
Mar 12 02:58:52 <Aetmos> Well, that's what I thought. It would seem that my wife ate the rest of the ice cream
Mar 12 02:58:53 <Aetmos> ;-(
Mar 12 02:59:44 <chaosvoyager> The glass however, is still half full :)
Mar 12 03:00:14 <Aetmos> indeed
Mar 12 03:04:44 <romainguy_> at least you're not at work :)
Mar 12 03:08:50 <pyronik> im really liking the documentation for android
Mar 12 03:08:56 <pyronik> its making it really easy to learn
Mar 12 03:08:58 <pyronik> so far at least
Mar 12 03:09:04 <romainguy_> Glad you like it :)
Mar 12 03:10:38 <pyronik> the xml definition for the user interface im particularly liking coming from php and html js and all that crap
Mar 12 03:10:46 <pyronik> css
Mar 12 03:12:13 <chaosvoyager> *shudder*
Mar 12 03:12:53 <pyronik> ha yea
Mar 12 03:13:17 <pyronik> at least ap interfaces arent as visually cumbersome
Mar 12 03:13:33 <pyronik> im designing a website for a fire company
Mar 12 03:13:48 <pyronik> they want plumes of smoke and engines all over that page
Mar 12 03:14:05 <pyronik> im like ehh, drupal templates .. lets see
Mar 12 03:17:42 <chaosvoyager> They want Flash -_-
Mar 12 03:21:08 <chaosvoyager> (*doubletake *) Plumes of smoke and engines?!?!
Mar 12 03:25:53 <pyronik> not moving plumes of smoke
Mar 12 03:26:00 <pyronik> fire engines
Mar 12 03:26:01 <chaosvoyager> There's an advertisers club on LI, and their entire site is Flash. Literally.
Mar 12 03:26:34 <chaosvoyager> pyronik: right.
Mar 12 03:26:43 <chaosvoyager> I was refering to the nature of their requests.
Mar 12 03:27:02 <pyronik> oh what they showed me they wanted wasn't flash
Mar 12 03:27:14 <pyronik> its free for them anyways so its not going to be too time consuming
Mar 12 03:28:18 <chaosvoyager> Right, not moving. For some reason I just assumed that :?
Mar 12 03:29:28 <pyronik> haha
Mar 12 03:29:36 <pyronik> yea i pictures plumes of smoke moving too
Mar 12 03:29:47 <pyronik> that usually happens when i try and cook
Mar 12 03:30:40 <chaosvoyager> So apparently, when I hear smoke and fire engines, I think Flash based web design. Why the heck would that be 0_o
Mar 12 03:31:19 <pyronik> thinking about all of that, if i ever actually finish learning this android thing it makes me think of an idea for linking all the fire engines together
Mar 12 03:31:25 <pyronik> using all the gps and maps and shit
Mar 12 03:31:41 <pyronik> but im still learning how to use this list adapter subclass
Mar 12 03:31:49 <pyronik> so i gots a ways to go
Mar 12 03:32:10 <chaosvoyager> Come to think of it, I hear sirens when I'm told to use Flash too o_0
Mar 12 03:32:38 <pyronik> haha when a girl takes of her shirt
Mar 12 03:32:43 <pyronik> flash based web design
Mar 12 03:32:52 <chaosvoyager> ...
Mar 12 03:32:56 <pyronik> off*
Mar 12 03:33:11 <chaosvoyager> You've obviously had very different experiences with Flash than I have.
Mar 12 03:33:23 <pyronik> haha i havent really worked with it that much
Mar 12 03:33:45 <pyronik> i made a campaign movie for one of my friends student government board campaign runs at school
Mar 12 03:33:47 <pyronik> that was it
Mar 12 03:34:02 <chaosvoyager> heh
Mar 12 03:34:16 <pyronik> waste of time
Mar 12 03:34:17 <pyronik> he lost
Mar 12 03:35:23 <chaosvoyager> The fun in in the campaign trail. It's like a music tour, or should be.
Mar 12 03:36:59 <pyronik> this election cycle in the national thing has been pretty crazy so far
Mar 12 03:37:15 <chaosvoyager> Anyway, as for your GPS idea, you might be better off just using Google maps over HTML, and just requesting the GPS coords from the Android devices. That way everyone can see where the engines are. However, it might create privacy concerns if every lawyer suddenly knew where all the fires were.
Mar 12 03:38:01 <pyronik> oh doesn't androids built in maps have that capability
Mar 12 03:38:11 <pyronik> to allow sites to be added
Mar 12 03:39:00 <pyronik> my buddy made a neat implementation of it on the schools "party" website
Mar 12 03:39:11 <pyronik> all the parties became bullets on a google map with the parties details
Mar 12 03:39:22 <pyronik> and it gave directions for freshman to get there from the dorms
Mar 12 03:41:50 <chaosvoyager> Well, yes, but then you'd be both limiting access to only Android devices, and writing a lot more code. This way everyone (mostly) can view it, and the code to send the GPS coords would be very short, run quickly, and use less battery.
Mar 12 03:43:11 <pyronik> good points
Mar 12 03:46:35 <pyronik> next thing to do (unrealistically) in an ideal world is traffic signals to coordinate timing on lights via routes of engines and proximity to specific lights
Mar 12 03:46:50 <pyronik> sorta like in the italian job
Mar 12 03:48:28 <chaosvoyager> UPS has a program dedicated to minimizing left turns, and certain US states have an infrared sensor on traffic lights that can signal it to change.
Mar 12 03:48:55 <mrspoons> mmm...iphone IRC cli
Mar 12 03:49:04 <mrspoons> client
Mar 12 03:49:53 <chaosvoyager> Now if only I could write an SMS client for it.
Mar 12 03:50:35 <chaosvoyager> Well, that, and the damn thing needs GPS.
Mar 12 03:51:09 <pyronik> ive studied UPS in my finance courses
Mar 12 03:51:16 <pyronik> they are hardcore when it comes to efficiency
Mar 12 03:51:35 <pyronik> compared to fedex they like hate their jobs
Mar 12 03:51:41 <pyronik> the drivers that is
Mar 12 03:52:01 <chaosvoyager> heh
Mar 12 03:52:02 <Aetmos> they run alot
Mar 12 03:53:30 <chaosvoyager> Did you study Dell? That 7 day inventory thing was pretty snazzy.
Mar 12 03:54:41 <pyronik> ive heard something about it don't know the particulars
Mar 12 03:54:50 <pyronik> their inventory turnover is 7 days?
Mar 12 03:55:04 <mrspoons> ah that's better
Mar 12 03:55:21 <mrspoons> weird black on black bug
Mar 12 03:56:02 <chaosvoyager> That's the target they aimed for. How often they achieved it I do not know, but based on how well they were doing at one point I suspect it was pretty consistently maintained.
Mar 12 03:57:08 <chaosvoyager> mrspoons: Are you by any chance, DEBUGGING this iPhone IRC client?
Mar 12 03:58:12 <mrspoons> nope just trying out different ones
Mar 12 03:58:44 <pyronik> is iphone or android easier to develope on?
Mar 12 03:58:55 <mrspoons> the first one had black text on black bckgrnd in the typing box
Mar 12 03:59:11 <chaosvoyager> grk..
Mar 12 03:59:17 <chaosvoyager> pizza !
Mar 12 03:59:28 <mrspoons> I've only developed android so I dunno
Mar 12 04:00:00 <mrspoons> just an iPhone user at this point
Mar 12 04:01:56 <pyronik> expensive toys ah
Mar 12 04:02:22 <mrspoons> indeed
Mar 12 04:05:36 <chaosvoyager> ah, anyway (* munch munch *) I find the iPhone far easier to work on, but I'll reserve my final verdict until Android hits 1.0.
Mar 12 04:06:43 <muthu> right now you need to give credit to iPhone
Mar 12 04:07:21 <muthu> what's the iPhone O/S called anyways?
Mar 12 04:07:46 <chaosvoyager> and with luck it will be giving credit back :D
Mar 12 04:08:27 <muthu> oh yeah
Mar 12 04:08:31 <chaosvoyager> muthu: OS X. the framework is called Cocoa Touch
Mar 12 04:08:40 <muthu> great
Mar 12 04:09:02 <muthu> so it must be Android vs Cocoa Touch vs Windows Mobile vs Symbian
Mar 12 04:09:38 <chaosvoyager> Watch for Adobe to come in from the rear.
Mar 12 04:09:46 <muthu> what do they have?
Mar 12 04:09:51 <muthu> Flash Lite?
Mar 12 04:10:34 <chaosvoyager> No. Smoething else, based on AIR, but they will be playing in this market.
Mar 12 04:11:53 <muthu> ok
Mar 12 04:12:03 <chaosvoyager> They have no choice. Android doesnt support Flash, iPhone will NEVER support Flash, and MS, not sure what the deal will be there.
Mar 12 04:12:21 <muthu> MS supports it
Mar 12 04:12:26 <muthu> iPhone very close
Mar 12 04:12:45 <muthu> Android - 3rd party will do so
Mar 12 04:12:45 <raidfive> MS will be moving toward SilverLight
Mar 12 04:12:56 <muthu> oh yeah silverlight
Mar 12 04:13:37 <muthu> unlike the desktop, the mobile market will be diverse
Mar 12 04:14:02 <chaosvoyager> extremely
Mar 12 04:14:13 <raidfive> maybe too diverse?
Mar 12 04:14:27 <muthu> not too diverse thought
Mar 12 04:14:31 <muthu> though
Mar 12 04:14:44 <chaosvoyager> and that's a HUGE problem for 'communications' devices.
Mar 12 04:15:17 <muthu> windows will have a good share
Mar 12 04:15:29 <muthu> symbian has it already
Mar 12 04:15:47 <muthu> iphone will not be for everyone
Mar 12 04:16:15 <muthu> linux based android - ??
Mar 12 04:16:45 <muthu> and then blackberry, palm..
Mar 12 04:16:53 <chaosvoyager> as long as they can all communicatec with each other, I'm cool with it.
Mar 12 04:17:30 <muthu> need some common protocols
Mar 12 04:17:46 <muthu> but look how android is steering away from established opensource protocols
Mar 12 04:18:02 <muthu> if android doesn't want to do it, who will?
Mar 12 04:22:32 <chaosvoyager> as long as those protocols are open, it's fine. There were valid technical reasons for choosing GTalk over XMPP. It's just that these reasons were not presented clearly, the PR was poorly handled, and the specs to this new GTalk protocol are not currently available AFAIK.
Mar 12 04:24:30 <muthu> yes.. and each of the major mobile players will hide behind technicalities
Mar 12 04:24:50 <muthu> i still can't get over it
Mar 12 04:25:07 <chaosvoyager> naa, they'll just lie :P
Mar 12 04:25:22 <chaosvoyager> Verizon... unlimited my ass....
Mar 12 04:50:19 <chaosvoyager> OK, I'm still really confused about what happens when multiple applications are listening for the same intent broadcast. How does Android resolve this?
Mar 12 04:50:26 <romainguy> re
Mar 12 04:52:48 <chaosvoyager> 0_o
Mar 12 04:56:25 <muthu> chaos look at the building blocks - intents - intentresolution docs
Mar 12 05:11:01 <chaosvoyager> muthu: Thanks.
Mar 12 05:11:54 <chaosvoyager> Now I see why I was confused.
Mar 12 05:15:23 <chaosvoyager> It basically boils down to which application is more 'specific', right?
Mar 12 05:16:15 <chaosvoyager> Broadcasts that is.
Mar 12 05:20:02 <chaosvoyager> Is it possible for a process to catch an intent, do something based on it, and then pass that intent back to be rebroadcast or routed to another process?
Mar 12 06:06:21 <thedaniel`> hmm, say i want a ViewGroup that contains a series of elements with variable widths that will flow/wrap nicely onto the next line if a new child is added that would go beyond the right margin, would there be a view in the SDK already that would provide this behavior? Is this a matter of finding the right combination of attributes within a RelativeLayout, or is it a custom view/
Mar 12 06:06:27 <thedaniel`> ?
Mar 12 06:12:03 <muthu> thedaniel: what you are looking for is "flowlayout" and its not currently supported in android
Mar 12 06:12:56 <thedaniel`> muthu: darn
Mar 12 06:15:08 <thedaniel`> muthu: yeah, i had searched for various combinations of 'flow' 'view' 'wrap' and 'layout' before asking in irc, so i had a sinking feeling
Mar 12 06:18:06 <muthu> right, hope they have something like it in future releasee
Mar 12 06:20:41 <romainguy__> flow layouts usually suck for good UIs
Mar 12 06:21:25 <thedaniel`> romainguy__: well, i thought it'd be nice for a list of tags
Mar 12 06:21:38 <romainguy__> note that it's also pretty easy to write such a layout
Mar 12 06:21:46 <thedaniel`> because they aren't quite important enough to take that much vspace but would be nice if they were clickable
Mar 12 06:22:09 <thedaniel`> romainguy__: right, well that's the plan, probably
Mar 12 06:22:41 <thedaniel`> romainguy__: i haven't run the 'how to display a list of tags' past my UI design buddy but thought a flow layout would be good for a placeholder if it existed
Mar 12 06:22:51 <romainguy> sure
Mar 12 06:22:57 <romainguy> that's a good use of a flowlayout
Mar 12 07:55:04 <sandesh> can anyone tell me how to open url in a frame
Mar 12 07:55:09 <sandesh> i m not getting it
Mar 12 07:55:32 <sandesh> i mean any html or javasript in a frame..
Mar 12 07:55:40 <sandesh> hello..................
Mar 12 07:55:43 <sandesh> anyone
Mar 12 07:56:01 <sandesh> webview is not getting
Mar 12 07:56:12 <sandesh> its giving nullpointer exception
Mar 12 07:58:40 <chaosvoyager> Wish I could offer something more, but I have no idea.
Mar 12 08:05:20 <thedaniel`> sandesh: quick solution: look at the exception browser on the phone, find the line in your app that's causing the NPE and see if you're trying to use an uninitialized variable
Mar 12 08:05:35 <thedaniel`> sandesh: less quick: fire up the debugger
Mar 12 08:05:58 <sandesh> thedaniel:did tht intent is working
Mar 12 08:06:06 <sandesh> but webview not working
Mar 12 15:52:00 <jasta> yawn
Mar 12 15:53:33 <Aetmos> mornin'
Mar 12 15:56:39 <jasta> to you too
Mar 12 15:56:59 <jasta> i wish work didn't exist today :\
Mar 12 15:57:04 <Aetmos> agreed
Mar 12 16:05:48 * davidw is trying to finish up this .... thing ... oracle, insurance, fixed format files... it all makes me want to stab my eyes out
Mar 12 16:07:02 <Aetmos> nothing quite so exciting as insurance
Mar 12 16:07:29 <Aetmos> It's like gambling, only you never win...
Mar 12 16:07:58 <davidw> I am going to celebrate when this POS is done
Mar 12 16:11:18 <davidw> some joker even had the brilliant idea of requiring the Tcl code that it's composed of be... sort of compiled into one big file before you can run it
Mar 12 16:22:53 <Aetmos> Woh, my iTouch just logged itself in here (mrspoons) without me touching it...that's odd
Mar 12 16:22:59 <Aetmos> I wonder if it'll say something...
Mar 12 16:28:35 <jasta> there are some strange things turned on in the Android kernel...
Mar 12 16:29:00 <Aetmos> such as?
Mar 12 16:29:16 <jasta> NFSD, SUNRPC, SMB_FS?  MAGIC_SYSRQ?
Mar 12 16:29:36 <jasta> both DNOTIFY and INOTIFY together
Mar 12 16:29:44 <Aetmos> huh
Mar 12 16:30:57 <jasta> you dont find that weird?
Mar 12 16:31:37 <Aetmos> a tad
Mar 12 16:58:57 <donomo> magic_sysrq can give debug output when the kernel crashes
Mar 12 16:59:07 <donomo> or something like that
Mar 12 17:01:55 <jasta> donomo: There are much better ways to do that than SYSRQ :)
Mar 12 17:03:25 <davidw> donomo, where's the SysRq button on a phone?
Mar 12 17:03:46 <davidw> or for that matter the ctrl and shift keys
Mar 12 17:03:52 <jasta> davidw: sysrq can be controlled via /proc
Mar 12 17:04:45 <jasta> but i still don't see a lot of value there :)
Mar 12 17:05:03 <jasta> but sysrq is much easier to debate than smbfs and nfsd support?  wth? :)
Mar 12 17:05:40 <jasta> i really what the build of android is going to look like when it actually goes to a phone though :)
Mar 12 17:05:52 <jasta> wonder how much debug stuff theyll leave on :)
Mar 12 17:12:21 <donomo> davidw: good point. haha
Mar 12 17:13:49 <donomo> jasta: it seems reasonable the devs would NFS mount a filesystem on the android at some point
Mar 12 17:14:05 <donomo> s/android/emulator/
Mar 12 17:14:05 <infobot> donomo meant: jasta: it seems reasonable the devs would NFS mount a filesystem on the emulator at some point
Mar 12 17:14:52 <zelip> sorry for the returning topic.. but I can't beleive no manufacturer has launched a android compatible phone.. itcould be the best 2008 device-toy ..  first to market will make them have a big lead!
Mar 12 17:15:06 <jasta> zelip: are you serious?
Mar 12 17:15:11 <donomo> zelip: me too but they are coming.
Mar 12 17:15:12 <zelip> ofcourse
Mar 12 17:15:24 <davidw> hi serious, nice to meet you, I'm dave
Mar 12 17:15:28 <jasta> launching Android in its current state would be disasterous.
Mar 12 17:15:31 <zelip> jaja
Mar 12 17:15:37 <jasta> zelip: don't you realize that?
Mar 12 17:15:49 <donomo> jasta: example?
Mar 12 17:15:56 <zelip> jm.. i wouldn't launch it publicly
Mar 12 17:16:01 <zelip> but under..
Mar 12 17:16:19 <jasta> how about all the numerous bugs and crashes?  or how about that the public release doesn't offer text messaging, e-mail, calendar, tasks, alarm, uhh, should i go on?
Mar 12 17:16:44 <zelip> see.. that's where our point differs
Mar 12 17:16:54 <zelip> been CTO of one manufacturer
Mar 12 17:17:18 <zelip> I would definitely develop a android enabled phone, but with some other OS installed.
Mar 12 17:17:22 <zelip> android hackable.
Mar 12 17:17:26 <donomo> jasta: i havent seen the emulator crash but then again i havent used it extensively.
Mar 12 17:17:35 <zelip> in that sense I wouldn't have to mess with android support
Mar 12 17:17:57 <jasta> why would Google want to put their name behind a publicly launched product that's so sucky? :)
Mar 12 17:18:05 <jasta> that wouldn't make any sense.
Mar 12 17:18:36 <davidw> they don't - which is precisely why they're 1) not going to let the source code out until a phone or two have been launched, and 2) they're working closely with the first few handset manufacturers.
Mar 12 17:18:36 <jasta> also, there's not much point in doing so, since the public SDK doesn't support amny features taht would make it even useful to have on a real phone
Mar 12 17:18:39 <jasta> no bluetooth, for example.
Mar 12 17:18:58 <jasta> no gsm radio hehe
Mar 12 17:19:16 <jasta> davidw: exactly, zelip is an idiot :)
Mar 12 17:19:30 <zelip> suck my dick jasta
Mar 12 17:20:03 <zelip> you have no idea how to approach market... damn geek
Mar 12 17:20:10 <davidw> woah
Mar 12 17:20:23 <jasta> davidw: just patiently wait for him to get himself banned, no big deal :)
Mar 12 17:20:26 <donomo> the original question was about hardware, not the state of the software
Mar 12 17:20:30 <davidw> jasta, gratuitous insults are a bad idea
Mar 12 17:20:58 <davidw> my rule of thumb: would I say that to someone in person?
Mar 12 17:21:17 <jasta> davidw: You've never called someone an idiot? :)
Mar 12 17:21:30 <davidw> not people I don't know
Mar 12 17:22:45 <davidw> zelip, I explained above what the situation is. People are working on phones, but they won't be launched til later this year.
Mar 12 17:23:06 <jasta> Well, this is a silly topic.  zelip's profanity is an obvious call to his real purpose here.  He's trolling. ;)
Mar 12 17:23:31 <davidw> I think he's just mistaken
Mar 12 17:23:34 <zelip> but I haven't seen any publicly available android hackable phones
Mar 12 17:23:46 <jasta> zelip: You haven't been looking, then, because they exist.
Mar 12 17:24:02 <jasta> They just don't do much, since Android's public release doesn't do much.
Mar 12 17:24:03 <zelip> jasta.. just don't ever talk to me again
Mar 12 17:24:25 <zelip> i don't care about anything you say
Mar 12 17:24:28 <zelip> or think
Mar 12 17:24:29 <zelip> or do
Mar 12 17:24:36 <jasta> davidw: Obvious, no? :)
Mar 12 17:24:44 <zelip> davidw
Mar 12 17:24:59 <zelip> could you give me a phone hardware I can buy?
Mar 12 17:25:23 <zelip> model number..
Mar 12 17:25:23 <davidw> zelip, nokia?
Mar 12 17:25:28 <davidw> 3110
Mar 12 17:25:34 <zelip> great.. thanks
Mar 12 17:26:18 <zelip> jmm any with touch screen?
Mar 12 17:27:15 <jasta> qtek 9090
Mar 12 17:27:55 <jasta> you're going to be disappointed, though :)
Mar 12 17:28:32 <jasta> also, there is some strange developer-focused phone that lets you plug in modules onto a base board to add things like Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GPS, touchscreen, etc.  It is said to run Android as well.
Mar 12 17:32:27 * davidw is kind of curious about sun spots
Mar 12 17:40:19 <jasta> davidw: what about them?
Mar 12 17:40:40 <davidw> they seem kind of cool, but I can't really think of anything good to do with one
Mar 12 17:40:56 <davidw> I want a free one to play with Hecl on:-)
Mar 12 17:43:20 <jasta> wait, what?
Mar 12 17:43:37 <jasta> i thought you were talking about the phenomenon on the surface of Earth's sun :)
Mar 12 17:44:42 <donomo> http://en.oreilly.com/et2008/public/schedule/detail/2524
Mar 12 17:45:21 <donomo> http://www.sunspotworld.com/
Mar 12 17:46:11 <jasta> i am really excited by the availability of linux drivers for GSM radios thanks to Android.  I think we'll see quite a few hobbyist projects sprout up in the next several years integrating cellular radios into devices.
Mar 12 17:54:51 <davidw> I'd be more interested in seeing cellular radios integrated into hobbyists
Mar 12 18:02:22 <jasta> morning romain
Mar 12 18:03:01 <romainguy__> yo
Mar 12 18:13:16 <muthu> now i know where the sunset wallpaper came from ;)
Mar 12 18:13:48 <muthu> jasta: you know where
Mar 12 18:15:56 <jasta> muthu: of course, Romain took that photo.
Mar 12 18:17:03 <muthu> bingo
Mar 12 18:17:16 <muthu> just now checked his website
Mar 12 18:17:32 <romainguy__> ^^
Mar 12 18:18:19 <jasta> muthu: I had seen it before M5 was released, and even remarked that I liked it a lot ;)
Mar 12 18:18:32 <muthu> ha.. then its you
Mar 12 18:18:40 <jasta> what?
Mar 12 18:18:53 <muthu> who caused the wallpaper change
Mar 12 18:19:03 <jasta> Oh, I don't know.  But I do really like the photo :)
Mar 12 18:19:07 <muthu> in m3 it was different if i remember right
Mar 12 18:19:37 <jasta> It was, yeah.  M3's wallpaper was just some stupid Mountain and Lake scene.  Totally trite, although it did look like it was taken in Washington state (where I'm from) :)
Mar 12 18:20:01 <muthu> yeah the sunset photos look good
Mar 12 18:20:52 <romainguy__> jasta: the wallpaper was already in M5 :)
Mar 12 18:21:28 <muthu> romainguy: you use intellij?
Mar 12 18:21:37 <romainguy__> Yes I do
Mar 12 18:21:49 <muthu> you have a plugin?
Mar 12 18:21:58 <romainguy__> for Android?
Mar 12 18:21:59 <romainguy__> No
Mar 12 18:22:01 <muthu> yeah
Mar 12 18:22:07 <jasta> romainguy__: I assumed as much.
Mar 12 18:22:26 <romainguy__> muthu: development is not exactly the same as with the SDK
Mar 12 18:22:26 <muthu> the current android plugin is pretty old
Mar 12 18:22:35 <romainguy__> just because our source tree is very complex
Mar 12 18:22:44 <muthu> i understand
Mar 12 18:22:56 <jasta> romainguy__: What is your built environment, just out of curiousity?
Mar 12 18:23:08 <muthu> it doesn't feel like java development with android
Mar 12 18:23:33 <muthu> jasta: what's your ide?
Mar 12 18:23:46 <jasta> Vim, if I can help it.  Eclipse occassionally as well.
Mar 12 18:23:56 <muthu> woah vim!!
Mar 12 18:23:57 <romainguy__> jasta: what do you mean?
Mar 12 18:24:06 <jasta> I have been wanting to get Eclim working, but it requires an Eclipse version not in Debian
Mar 12 18:24:37 <jasta> muthu: I used Eclipse much more when I was learning Android because I found the plugin to be very helpful, and Eclipse is nice for all the code complete functionality.
Mar 12 18:24:54 <jasta> But as I became more comfortable recalling most of the common functionality from memory, I went back to Vim.
Mar 12 18:24:55 <muthu> agree.. eclipse with the android plugin is pretty neat
Mar 12 18:25:13 <jasta> But like i said, Eclim would be nice to get going.  I bet I could make it work with ADT too.
Mar 12 18:25:41 <jasta> romainguy__: I mean, what build tools are you using?  Ant?
Mar 12 18:26:08 <romainguy__> No, we are using make
Mar 12 18:26:12 <jasta> Niceee ;)
Mar 12 18:26:15 <jasta> even for the Java stuff?
Mar 12 18:26:23 <romainguy__> Yeah
Mar 12 18:26:29 <romainguy__> There's a lot of native code in the source tree
Mar 12 18:26:33 <romainguy__> So make makes sense
Mar 12 18:26:41 <jasta> Of course, and you'd need to work with all the code you didn't write.
Mar 12 18:27:04 <jasta> automake/autoconf or just all hand-rolled?
Mar 12 18:27:13 <romainguy__> I have no idea
Mar 12 18:27:19 <muthu> make for java would not make sense
Mar 12 18:27:20 <romainguy__> but I don't remember seeing any automake/autoconf
Mar 12 18:27:28 <davidw> eeeeeeeek
Mar 12 18:27:30 <romainguy__> muthu: yeah ant is so much nicer to use
Mar 12 18:27:36 <muthu> right
Mar 12 18:27:58 * davidw wonders if a silver bullet would be enough to kill auto*
Mar 12 18:28:33 <muthu> i guess android uses svn for sourcetree
Mar 12 18:28:45 <romainguy__> muthu: nope
Mar 12 18:28:53 <muthu> what is it?
Mar 12 18:29:06 <romainguy__> we use Perforce
Mar 12 18:29:10 <muthu> ok
Mar 12 18:29:13 <romainguy__> which, I must admit, is really really good
Mar 12 18:29:19 <muthu> i heard
Mar 12 18:29:21 <jasta> where have I heard that before?
Mar 12 18:29:24 <romainguy__> I wish we were using something like Mercurial though
Mar 12 18:29:27 <jasta> Somebody was just recently telling me about Perforce
Mar 12 18:29:37 <romainguy__> it has excellent support in IDEs
Mar 12 18:29:38 <muthu> ah mercurial.. that's what is making the buzz now
Mar 12 18:29:41 <romainguy__> and the command line tools are very easy to use
Mar 12 18:29:56 <muthu> svn users are moving to mercurial
Mar 12 18:29:59 <romainguy__> Perforce is the less confusing VCS I've used so far
Mar 12 18:30:10 <romainguy__> (die CVS!)
Mar 12 18:30:21 <muthu> CVS is dead!
Mar 12 18:30:24 <jasta> Subversion is not very confusing.  Perhaps it could be made less confusing, but it isn't confusing.
Mar 12 18:30:42 <romainguy__> no SVN is nice
Mar 12 18:30:47 <davidw> svn is fine
Mar 12 18:30:47 <jasta> I haven't been sufficiently annoyed to stop using it, anyway.
Mar 12 18:30:56 <davidw> yeah
Mar 12 18:31:07 <davidw> I'm conservative with VC systems
Mar 12 18:31:14 <muthu> why svn users moving to mercurial?
Mar 12 18:31:33 <romainguy__> Mercurial has a different philosophy
Mar 12 18:31:40 <romainguy__> I like the idea of distributed repos
Mar 12 18:31:40 <muthu> what?
Mar 12 18:32:01 <romainguy__> Isn't it what git does as well?
Mar 12 18:32:09 <muthu> i guess so
Mar 12 18:32:29 <muthu> i stopped going beyond svn.. atleast for now
Mar 12 18:32:49 <muthu> may be mercurial soon..
Mar 12 18:33:01 <jasta> Don't switch your version control just because it's trendy ;)
Mar 12 18:33:12 <muthu> jasta: i go with the flow
Mar 12 18:33:13 <davidw> mercurial is SO last month
Mar 12 18:33:18 <muthu> true
Mar 12 18:33:30 <muthu> :)
Mar 12 18:34:37 <Bonkers> I know some people who use Perforce and git together
Mar 12 18:34:43 <romainguy__> me too :)
Mar 12 18:34:46 <donomo> the svn killer for me: merge bob's changes into my branch and commit. all bob's changes were 'commited' by me. that history is lost.
Mar 12 18:35:48 <muthu> the whole versioning is a bit messed up in svn
Mar 12 18:36:20 <jasta> muthu: how so?
Mar 12 18:37:39 <muthu> jasta: i'm too sleepy to remember now ;)
Mar 12 18:38:25 <muthu> when you do branching and tagging.. and the version numbers getting bumped up across the repo
Mar 12 18:38:36 <muthu> something like that
Mar 12 18:40:01 <muthu> now that jasta is getting active, i better go to sleep :)
Mar 12 18:40:11 <muthu> good night folks
Mar 12 18:40:45 <jasta> what is that supposed to mean? :)
Mar 12 18:40:58 <davidw> that you're like batman or something
Mar 12 18:41:56 * romainguy__ can't wait to be done with this feature
Mar 12 18:42:58 <jasta> what feature?
Mar 12 18:43:07 <romainguy__> a cool feature :)
Mar 12 18:43:11 <jasta> hehe
Mar 12 18:43:23 <jasta> i have given up on a cool feature in my app because of stupid MediaPlayer bugs :)
Mar 12 18:43:29 <jasta> i'm over it now though, i'm onto last.fm integration :)
Mar 12 18:43:47 <romainguy__> nice
Mar 12 18:43:51 <jasta> btw, for anyone that doesnt know, last.fm is awesome and you all should go get accounts :)
Mar 12 18:44:39 <jasta> romainguy__: i plan to have my music player not only participate as a last.fm submission client, but also access large volumes of meta data from it to do automatic "suggestion-based" playlists, download artist and album artwork, provide artist info / concert notifications, etc :)
Mar 12 18:45:11 <jasta> but, for round 1, i am practically limiting myself to artist/album artwork, and suggestion playlists.
Mar 12 18:49:34 <jasta> i love that last.fm has a very open data sharing license.  all their data (mostly RESTful, which is nice) is available for free for non-commercial usage.
Mar 12 19:40:54 <visit0r> hi, is it possible to remove the "status bar", thus make the activity totally full screen (after removing also the title bar)?
Mar 12 19:41:16 <f00f-> yes it is
Mar 12 19:41:21 <f00f-> call a window feature setting
Mar 12 19:41:43 <visit0r> which one?
Mar 12 19:41:57 <f00f-> i dont know, there is one to remove it
Mar 12 19:41:57 <visit0r> FEATURE_NO_TITLE removes only the window title
Mar 12 19:42:04 <f00f-> there isn't another one besides that?
Mar 12 19:42:11 <f00f-> hmm
Mar 12 19:42:27 <visit0r> no
Mar 12 19:42:33 <visit0r> assuming FEATURE_OPTIONS_PANEL  is not that
Mar 12 19:42:43 <visit0r> at least requestFeature() with that did not help
Mar 12 19:43:38 <f00f-> perhaps you need a permission?
Mar 12 19:44:04 <visit0r> hmmh
Mar 12 19:45:45 <Aetmos> inadequate permissions could really use better error messages...
Mar 12 19:46:16 <romainguy__> Aetmos: we're far from being done :)
Mar 12 19:46:23 <Aetmos> I know ;-)
Mar 12 19:46:30 <Aetmos> Just pointing it out...
Mar 12 19:47:19 <Aetmos> romainguy__: did you work on the Android Personal Wiki?
Mar 12 19:47:20 <visit0r> so you are saying that I want FEATURE_OPTIONS_PANEL but I just don't have enough permissions?
Mar 12 19:47:49 <hans2k> hi, just a question, android uses a different ip adress as the local pc? I read something about localhast and this was different than the one on the pc? right?
Mar 12 19:48:22 <Aetmos> I think localhost refers to the Android emulator
Mar 12 19:48:26 <benley> localhost in the emulator is the emulator.
Mar 12 19:49:40 <Aetmos> I use a dyndns.org account, but I imagine you could just plug in your computer's IP address
Mar 12 19:50:07 <Aetmos> maybe even 127.0.0.1
Mar 12 19:50:17 <Aetmos> Or if you're using a router, your 192.168.x.x
Mar 12 19:50:49 <hans2k> hm ok thx, thats what I thought...have a problem with the some ports...but that helps me a step further, because thats what I thought
Mar 12 19:53:37 <Aetmos> romainguy (ambiguous number of underscores):  did you work on the Android Personal Wiki app?
Mar 12 19:54:45 <hans2k> anyone knows how this all is really working or knows where I can read something about it? I guess the android will send its data to the local pc and this then sends it out the physical interface?
Mar 12 19:55:29 <Aetmos> hans2k: <shrug> are you having a specific problem?
Mar 12 19:57:57 <romainguy____> Aetmos: No I did not, it was Dick Wall
Mar 12 19:58:34 <Aetmos> romainguy____: okay, thanks
Mar 12 19:59:18 <hans2k> I just want to look at the traffic which the android emulator generates and which my interface sends out
Mar 12 20:00:03 <Aetmos> romainguy____: Looks nice. I was just wondering if my ZuluPad played any part in its inspiration...
Mar 12 20:00:15 <romainguy____> I doubt it :)
Mar 12 20:00:15 <Aetmos> hans2k: Have you tried Ethereal?
Mar 12 20:00:30 <Aetmos> romainguy____: me too ;-)
Mar 12 20:00:50 <hans2k> yes i did, but thats only what the network card sends out
Mar 12 20:01:36 <Aetmos> If you use your external IP address, I think you should be able to watch network traffic with Ethereal
Mar 12 20:03:09 <hans2k> I have a network thing running without android...thats working, but if the app is in android I get some errors...thats why I wanted to look at the things in android and compare it to the ethereal...hm....
Mar 12 20:12:05 <Aetmos> Does anybody have any clue how to decrease the indent of a block of code in Eclipse? It's been driving me nuts doing it line by line...
Mar 12 20:13:05 <romainguy____> shift-tab after selecting a bunch of lines
Mar 12 20:13:22 <Aetmos> AH!
Mar 12 20:13:29 <romainguy____> or select the block by pressing Ctrl-W several time and then run the source code formatter
Mar 12 20:13:30 <Aetmos> Thank you!!!!! :)
Mar 12 20:13:52 <Aetmos> shift-tab works like a charm
Mar 12 20:14:36 <donomo> Aetmos: s/Ethereal/wireshark
Mar 12 20:15:25 <Aetmos> donomo: Am I out of style with my packet sniffer of choice? ;-)
Mar 12 20:15:32 <Aetmos> I'll have to check wireshark out
Mar 12 20:15:44 <donomo> Aetmos: someone got in a tizzy about the name. so the project renamed itself
Mar 12 20:16:11 <Aetmos> Ethereal.com?
Mar 12 20:16:18 <Aetmos> Still there...
Mar 12 20:16:42 <donomo> yeah i noticed that too. but the last news update is may 2006
Mar 12 20:16:57 <Aetmos> Ah...looks like you're correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireshark
Mar 12 20:17:25 <Aetmos> I wonder who has the trademark?
Mar 12 20:17:43 <donomo> its much easier to make puns and come up with shark/underwater themes with the new name.
Mar 12 20:17:59 <Aetmos> They should have just named it Aethereal ;-)
Mar 12 20:20:16 <Aetmos> Oh, the guy who wrote Ethereal couldn't keep the trademark when he changed jobs
Mar 12 20:20:44 <donomo> looks like the current owner is making good use of the name. not.
Mar 12 20:21:54 <Aetmos> Yeah, that's stupid. Why not just sell the trademark to the guy for some nominal fee, and be done with it...
Mar 12 20:37:25 <Aetmos> ooh, firefox 3 beta 4 is out
Mar 12 23:06:49 <davidw> hey, anyone managed to send intent-based gtalk things via xmpp from some kind of external client?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 13 02:59:57 2008