**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 22 02:59:56 2008
Mar 22 03:39:43 <thedaniel`> callback invoked when user hits 'back button' == onPause() ?
Mar 22 03:53:49 <zhobbs> thedaniel`: I think back will destroy, but onPause() will be called
Mar 22 03:54:27 <zhobbs> you can actually capture it in onKeyDown also
Mar 22 04:02:21 <thedaniel`> zhobbs: xlnt, thanks
Mar 22 05:12:44 <rhett_> hey, is there a calendar app out yet?
Mar 22 05:13:50 <zhobbs> I havne't seen one
Mar 22 05:14:00 <zhobbs> I kinda think Google is working on one
Mar 22 05:14:05 <rhett_> I saw a picture of one that google is working on
Mar 22 05:14:11 <rhett_> yeah, but I guess it's not out yet
Mar 22 05:14:23 <rhett_> is it possible to just port existing java calendar code to android?
Mar 22 05:14:25 <zhobbs> were you see the picture?
Mar 22 05:14:32 <zhobbs> where*
Mar 22 05:15:06 <zhobbs> rhett_: maybe possible but not very useful, you'd want to build an android UI
Mar 22 05:17:54 <rhett_> not sure where it was zhobbs try google ;)
Mar 22 06:32:00 <SR71-Blackbird> has anyone here managed to use libjingle with an external server or any Gtalk/XMPP version from android?
Mar 22 06:32:27 <SR71-Blackbird> i want to connect to an external XMPP server and setup a database
Mar 22 06:54:13 <zhobbs> SR71-Blackbird: you can use the Smack API jars
Mar 22 06:56:53 <SR71-Blackbird> zhobbs, and connect to a regular XMPP server?
Mar 22 06:57:31 <SR71-Blackbird> zhobbs, I was slightly more interested at using the optimized Google libraries.. isn't that possible..?
Mar 22 07:12:06 <zhobbs> don't know...not sure if you can specify the server for gtalk can you?
Mar 22 07:31:24 <SR71-Blackbird> zhobbs, I think the libjingle ones do have that option
Mar 22 07:58:11 <jasta> yawn
Mar 22 08:08:00 <rhett> does anyone know an experienced android developer for contract?
Mar 22 08:08:25 <rhett> for a few days to help us get started
Mar 22 08:11:08 <jerkface03> what a silly question
Mar 22 08:13:51 <raidfive> does android have a way to detect if an sdcard is in the camera?
Mar 22 08:13:57 <raidfive> err, phone :)
Mar 22 08:13:59 <jasta> raidfive: is in the camera?
Mar 22 08:14:09 <jasta> raidfive: Yes, it does.  A few ways, actually
Mar 22 08:14:34 <jasta> see android.os.Environment for what seems to be the recommended way.
Mar 22 08:14:40 <raidfive> thanks
Mar 22 08:14:46 <jasta> However you could also just see if /sdcard is present and mounted :)
Mar 22 08:15:05 <raidfive> :) that did occur to me
Mar 22 08:15:33 <jasta> That actually doesn't seem to be especially unreliable, but android.os.Environment would be more appropriate :)
Mar 22 08:16:33 <raidfive> yea I'm sure getExternalStorageState() is probably the best way to go
Mar 22 08:16:45 <jasta> then you can also use getBlaBlaDirectory
Mar 22 08:17:33 <raidfive> doesn't say what it returns if the external directory doesn't exist ... I'm assuming null
Mar 22 08:18:13 <jasta> it probably still returns /sdcard, my point is it would be better not to hardcode "/sdcard" in your program.
Mar 22 08:18:35 <jasta> if (state() == WHAT_I_WANT) { path = getDirectory() + "/foobar" } whatever.
Mar 22 08:19:05 <raidfive> yea make sense
Mar 22 08:19:11 <jasta> rhett: That's somewhat unlikely.
Mar 22 08:19:22 <raidfive> thanks again jasta
Mar 22 08:19:30 <jasta> np
Mar 22 08:19:31 <rhett> yeah, i guess everyone is in crunch time jasta
Mar 22 08:19:57 <jasta> rhett: it just wouldn't seem like a very reliable transaction mostly.
Mar 22 08:20:40 <jasta> so, I'm more than pretty sure there's a memory leak in Base64Utils.decodeBase64().  Perhaps I should not use this function :)
Mar 22 08:21:07 * jasta builds a simple demonstration program and submits a bug
Mar 22 08:54:18 <jasta> lol, wow.  Yup :)
Mar 22 08:54:31 <jasta> whie loop using Base64Utils.decodeBase64() will sure enough crash your app ;)
Mar 22 08:54:40 * jasta packages this sample and posts a bug
Mar 22 09:00:08 <_avatar> fwiw, i also had problems with Base64Utils. i'm using http://iharder.sourceforge.net/current/java/base64/ instead, in the mean time. it seems to work well
Mar 22 09:00:39 <jasta> this same issue or others?  i have found tht base64utils works, it just leaks like crazy :)
Mar 22 09:00:48 <jasta> and eventually the oom killer nukes my app
Mar 22 09:00:59 <_avatar> if i remember correctly, it only decodes base64 data, but doesn't encode
Mar 22 09:01:10 <jasta> yeah, but that's all i needed.
Mar 22 09:01:50 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=506 -- check that out ;)
Mar 22 09:01:54 <jasta> it crashes the app in like 10 seconds
Mar 22 09:04:20 <jasta> anyway, bed time.
Mar 22 09:04:22 <jasta> night folks
Mar 22 09:05:11 <_avatar> awesome
Mar 22 09:05:16 <_avatar> later
Mar 22 09:05:33 <_avatar> (the 'awesome' was in reference to the crash)
Mar 22 09:09:03 <rhett> how do i turn the emulator sideways?
Mar 22 09:13:14 <rhett> ./emulator -skin HVGA-L (duh)
Mar 22 09:30:29 <raidfive> does anyone know how to create a new file on an sdcard? tried using the create file method in File ...
Mar 22 09:39:00 <_avatar> raidfive: you can just use FileOutputStream
Mar 22 09:39:21 <raidfive> nm
Mar 22 09:39:31 <raidfive> yea got it
Mar 22 10:10:36 <eton> Does the android have a virtual keyboard?
Mar 22 10:16:23 <chaosvoyager> You mean like the one on the iPhone?
Mar 22 10:18:01 <chaosvoyager> Wow, wonderful. Google Groups page edit doesn't work on Firefox -_-
Mar 22 10:20:03 <chaosvoyager> Wow, do3.uble wonderful, Firefox CRASHED when I tried to DL Firefox 3b4 >_<
Mar 22 10:34:01 <chaosvoyager> Hey, how does everyone feel about Java compared to Python?
Mar 22 10:35:29 * davidw would choose Python for most things
Mar 22 10:35:41 <davidw> actually I kind of prefer Ruby to Python, but Python's fine too
Mar 22 10:36:01 <davidw> chaosvoyager, why?
Mar 22 10:36:12 <chaosvoyager> Politics.
Mar 22 10:38:06 <chaosvoyager> Well, that and I need to pick a well established language for a platform.
Mar 22 10:39:27 <chaosvoyager> To be honest I was thinking Javascript run under Tamarin (Why do they name all these things after Monkeys?!?!), but there may yet be too much work to do on it before it's prime time ready.
Mar 22 10:43:06 <chaosvoyager> I wish Ruby was more effecient (and looked more like Smalltalk :) ).
Mar 22 10:44:52 <chaosvoyager> OH, and I do have one MAJOR requirement: It must be possible to send the state of a process across to another server to be run there in as transparent a way as possible.
Mar 22 10:45:19 <chaosvoyager> And I've found that this capability is superisingly hard to find.
Mar 22 10:50:01 <chaosvoyager> Well, technically, Java can do it, but WOW the strings you have to pull.
Mar 22 10:52:53 <davidw> chaosvoyager, sounds kind of like erlang
Mar 22 10:54:42 <chaosvoyager> Heh, yeah, I know. I'm certainly using features from it if not the language itself.
Mar 22 10:57:45 <chaosvoyager> QNX had this great demo back in the day. They ran a bunch of processes on a server, and then pulled the plug, literally. All the processes had replicated and were running on backup servers, and no special application code was required to utilize this feature.
Mar 22 11:00:27 <davidw> cool
Mar 22 11:00:31 <davidw> they had that floppy disk thing too
Mar 22 11:00:42 <chaosvoyager> I think they still do.
Mar 22 11:02:01 <chaosvoyager> uC/OS-II is also really good. The code is not open for commercial exploitation w/o a license, but the source is available. Well worth a look.
Mar 22 11:02:30 <rwhitby> you can still get the floppy images from http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html
Mar 22 11:03:07 <chaosvoyager> Really, if I had ONE Christmas wish, it would be that they'd buy uC/OS-II and release it under a more open license.
Mar 22 11:03:36 <chaosvoyager> I'd have used my St Patrick's Day wish, but apparently I used that for something stupid.
Mar 22 11:08:46 <chaosvoyager> Anyway, in a nutshell, I want to be able to move any non-GUI process from my phone to a remote server and back again, at any time (barring errors), in whole or in part (by say chaching data or running the more latency sensitive parts locally). And I don't want to have to explicitly write code in the application to do it. I know it's possible. I've seen it done.
Mar 22 11:10:00 <chaosvoyager> I'm just not sure Java is right as it tends to use 10x more memory to run the equivalent speed of C.
Mar 22 11:10:08 <chaosvoyager> As a rule of thumb.
Mar 22 11:12:14 <chaosvoyager> ...and the Google Group page editor doesn't work under Firefox 3b4 either. -_- I'm having to use IE! WTF!
Mar 22 11:13:29 <chaosvoyager> Oh goodie, file Explorer crashed again.
Mar 22 11:14:42 <chaosvoyager> Well, I'm off to get breakfast before I kill something.
Mar 22 11:17:30 <mypapit> anti khairy !!
Mar 22 13:09:44 <assimd> is android participating in GSOC this year? I have an idea regarding it and i wish to discuss it ? is this the right place i am asking for help?
Mar 22 13:26:12 <assimd> can anyone answer my query?
Mar 22 14:35:26 <chaosvoyager> (* yawn/stretch *)
Mar 22 14:41:18 * davidw watching Milano Sanremo...
Mar 22 14:43:54 <davidw> chaosvoyager, you could probably migrate hecl interpreters, with a bit of effort, from place to place
Mar 22 14:44:06 <davidw> the problem is... what do you do with resources like GUI things or file handles?
Mar 22 14:45:10 <chaosvoyager> Heh, I'm keeping an eye on Hecl too :)
Mar 22 14:45:36 <chaosvoyager> I don't care about GUIs, because they by their very design should stay on the client.
Mar 22 14:46:12 <chaosvoyager> File handles on the other hand will probably be abstracted into some kind of URL.
Mar 22 14:46:44 <davidw> why do you want to migrate processes around?
Mar 22 14:53:48 <chaosvoyager> It allows the work to be moved to where it is most effeciently accomplished, provides a way to increase uptime, and it makes certain applications MUCH easier to design.
Mar 22 14:56:11 <chaosvoyager> Take translation services. If you have a wireless connection, it is almost always most efferctive to do the translation on a server, but it is even more effective to do certain known common biots on the local device, and if you don't have a connection at all, you need to run the entire service on your local device anyway.
Mar 22 14:57:23 <chaosvoyager> Moving where the logic is handled often requires an entire rewrite of a program, and it shouldn't.
Mar 22 14:57:33 <chaosvoyager> There's a video....hold on....
Mar 22 14:58:09 <davidw> wouldn't faking it just be easier?
Mar 22 14:58:24 <davidw> do the translation logic, put it in both places, put some glue to decide where to send it
Mar 22 14:59:24 <chaosvoyager> Would it? It seems like more work to me.
Mar 22 14:59:33 <chaosvoyager> OS X has proxy objects.
Mar 22 15:00:14 <chaosvoyager> They appear local but delegate all their calls to the actual object on a remote server.
Mar 22 15:00:46 <chaosvoyager> But it's not as effecient as it could be. I want to send calls in a transactional batch, but I digress.
Mar 22 15:04:41 <chaosvoyager> If you have the same class on both the client and server, and you can initialize both in the same way, then you can effectively send processes between them. It's all technically 'initialization' in a way.
Mar 22 15:21:30 <chaosvoyager> davidw: How would you compare Android to the other mobile dev platforms you've worked with?
Mar 22 15:39:28 <chomchom> Hi everybody!
Mar 22 15:39:55 <chomchom> Think we could do with a new chatroom subject line
Mar 22 15:42:55 <chomchom> How about we make it today's team goal to find the most interesting recent android story/article/tutorial then we'll ask morrildl to change it.
Mar 22 15:43:23 <chomchom> We might even have all weekend since he's probably out on the wednesday.
Mar 22 15:43:30 <chomchom> Monday even
Mar 22 15:44:27 <chaosvoyager> Tricky.
Mar 22 15:46:44 <chomchom> chaosvoyager ran away, faced with the daunting prospect of finding a new subject line!
Mar 22 15:47:15 <chomchom> It's ok guys, we can do this.
Mar 22 15:54:09 <chomchom> I'm excited about this project: http://www.blog.parallelkingdom.com/
Mar 22 15:54:20 <chomchom> I think those guys will come up with something really good.
Mar 22 15:58:51 <EQU> hello e :)
Mar 22 15:58:58 <EQU> i have a problem :)
Mar 22 15:59:34 <EQU> i'm writing a irc client for android, but emulator connection seems to be working wrong
Mar 22 16:00:12 <EQU> or i'm doing smoething wrong
Mar 22 16:00:16 <EQU> anybody here ?
Mar 22 16:01:04 <chomchom> theres 70 peeps here man, but no one can guarantee they'll know an answer.
Mar 22 16:01:18 <chomchom> just ask, don't ask to ask
Mar 22 16:01:40 <EQU> ok, that was introduction :)
Mar 22 16:01:52 <EQU> here is a screen
Mar 22 16:01:53 <EQU> http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aaabn2.jpg
Mar 22 16:02:25 <EQU> my app connect to irc server properly
Mar 22 16:02:42 <EQU> but servers has a IDENT checking
Mar 22 16:03:03 <EQU> if my app doesn't care about itd
Mar 22 16:03:22 <EQU> irc server should sebd "no ident" and go next
Mar 22 16:03:36 <EQU> send*
Mar 22 16:04:16 <EQU> ( socket connection works fine, i have teste it on local server )
Mar 22 16:04:23 <EQU> tested*
Mar 22 16:04:55 <EQU> any idea what is wrong :) ?
Mar 22 16:06:53 <inZane-> maybe check out some other android irc projects
Mar 22 16:06:55 <inZane-> http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=label%3Aandroid+irc&projectsearch=Search+Projects
Mar 22 16:09:23 <chomchom> yeah I think that would be your best bet since it's a pretty irc orientated problem
Mar 22 16:16:14 <mr_daniel> this is weird: i am building a layout xml file which includes a EditView
Mar 22 16:16:24 <mr_daniel> i definitely know that a EditView has a android:layout_width and android:layout_height attribute
Mar 22 16:16:36 <mr_daniel> but why i cannot find the attributes in the reference of EditView http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/widget/EditText.html ???
Mar 22 16:17:13 <mr_daniel> i want to know which values are posible for android:layout_width, but i cannot the attribute in the reference
Mar 22 16:17:27 <mr_daniel> ..cannot find the attribute ...
Mar 22 16:23:37 <inZane-> the attribute is called mLayoutParams
Mar 22 16:23:51 <inZane-> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/view/ViewGroup.LayoutParams.html
Mar 22 22:14:11 <jasta> man, jdb really sucks :)
Mar 22 22:15:22 <haavi> uhu
Mar 22 22:16:14 <haavi> why do you use that?
Mar 22 22:16:37 <jasta> i just had a simple test i was experimenting with
Mar 22 22:16:42 <jasta> didn't want to fire up anything heavy weight
Mar 22 22:16:49 <haavi> okay
Mar 22 22:18:32 <poffy> Hullo
Mar 22 22:18:34 <poffy> Quick question
Mar 22 22:18:35 <jasta> i can't seem to even make the print expression work correctly . just keeps barking "name unknown" at me.
Mar 22 22:19:08 <poffy> Is anyone else experiencing any anomalies with the MapView system? Like, coordinates being off?
Mar 22 22:20:03 <poffy> I used tried to use the coords of the Eiffel Tower and the MapView displayed a place somewhere closer to Oreleans rather than Paris
Mar 22 22:20:13 <jasta> oh, duh, didn't build with any debugging symbols
Mar 22 22:36:36 <jjt001> eyo
Mar 22 22:36:38 <jjt001> ayo
Mar 22 22:40:49 <zhobbs> http://cgi.ebay.com/Google-Android-Themed-Custom-PC-Case-Mod_W0QQitemZ270220156381QQihZ017QQcategoryZ179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Mar 22 22:42:01 <zhobbs> dunno about that cpu though
Mar 22 22:43:25 <zhobbs> it needs a body
Mar 22 23:11:04 <poffy> So, does can anyone confirm that MapView is displaying weird points on the map?
Mar 22 23:11:15 <poffy> -does
Mar 22 23:11:15 <poffy> heh
Mar 22 23:12:17 <zhobbs> I've gotten it to work pretty well
Mar 22 23:14:30 <zhobbs> poffy: http://www.helloandroid.com/node/206
Mar 22 23:19:18 <poffy> Hm
Mar 22 23:19:31 <poffy> When I use Eiffel Tower coords, it doesn't get it right...
Mar 22 23:20:08 <poffy> I'll try again
Mar 22 23:37:22 <poffy> hmm
Mar 22 23:37:23 <poffy> http://rafb.net/p/m6RNDQ53.html
Mar 22 23:37:26 <poffy> There's my code
Mar 22 23:37:44 <poffy> Right now, using the GPS coords you had, zhobbs, it should put me at the Grand Canyon, I think
Mar 22 23:37:51 <poffy> however, It puts me in Antartica
Mar 22 23:38:16 <poffy> sorry for the weird parsing
Mar 22 23:41:54 <jasta> sigh, fucking phone rebooted
Mar 22 23:41:58 <jasta> SIGILL in system_server
Mar 22 23:42:17 <zhobbs> poffy: switch your lat / lon
Mar 22 23:45:52 <poffy> Looks a lot better
Mar 22 23:45:53 <jasta> lol
Mar 22 23:45:58 <poffy> let me try Eifell Tower again
Mar 22 23:48:23 <poffy> Wrong button
Mar 22 23:48:25 <poffy> heh
Mar 22 23:49:35 <poffy> Switching the coords for the Eiffel tower didn't work (I guess it worked with your coords since you had them lon,lat
Mar 22 23:50:30 <poffy> 48.8583,2.2945
Mar 22 23:50:39 <poffy> try those coords and see if you get something in Paris
Mar 22 23:50:47 <poffy> I get something sw of Paris
Mar 22 23:56:44 <zhobbs> You can download the source for that TourGuide app and mess with that if you want
Mar 23 00:06:19 * jasta ponders Cursor notifications for a moment
Mar 23 00:06:38 <jasta> i don't think i have implemented something correctly here.
Mar 23 00:07:08 <jasta> it seems that a query for a particular content uri gets notified any time an insert happens on a number of other, unrelated content uris.
Mar 23 00:07:48 <jasta> and so my list is constantly trying to redraw itself even though data is being inserted for some other content that just so happens to be implemented in my same content provider
Mar 23 00:08:38 <jasta> and upon examination of my code, it would seem that i don't even properly notify of changes that happen to the general content uri being queried
Mar 23 00:08:55 <jasta> i am always calling notifyChange(newUriJustInserted, null), not the base uri.
Mar 23 00:09:14 <jasta> maybe i should separate this out into a simpler control scenario and observe how notifications really work
Mar 23 00:10:25 <jasta> zhobbs: you know anything about this system?
Mar 23 00:10:57 <zhobbs> jasta: nope
Mar 23 00:11:13 <poffy> zhobbs
Mar 23 00:11:16 <poffy> Found the problem :)
Mar 23 00:11:34 <poffy> 	    int lat = (int) (38.897605 * 1000000); didn't have parentheses around it
Mar 23 00:11:53 <jasta> looks like i am using the content provider in a manner consistent with how google uses it
Mar 23 00:12:22 <jasta> why wouldn't you just write 38897605?
Mar 23 00:14:26 <tmcneal> i think he's just testing conversion to 1E6 format
Mar 23 00:35:31 <poffy> Yeah
Mar 23 00:35:43 <poffy> I wouldn't use 38897605 in my real app
Mar 23 00:35:53 <poffy> I'm trying to just get some basics here
Mar 23 00:36:08 <poffy> Module by module
Mar 23 00:36:29 <poffy> Android does a great job at making it easy to break projects into modules
Mar 23 00:36:31 <poffy> with Activities
Mar 23 01:54:41 <chomchom> lol at the android case mod: http://cgi.ebay.com/Google-Android-Themed-Custom-PC-Case-Mod_W0QQitemZ270220156381QQihZ017QQcategoryZ179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Mar 23 01:55:07 <chomchom> a great present for close friends or family.
Mar 23 01:55:23 <zhobbs> yeah I saw that earlier
Mar 23 01:55:30 <zhobbs> pretty funny
Mar 23 01:56:37 <chomchom> Hes got a construction page as well: http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/03/15/android-construction/
Mar 23 02:36:54 <tmcneal> i saw on some website that someone pulled all the xml layout files used in google's android apps and put it in some zip file somewhere.
Mar 23 02:37:11 <tmcneal> anyone hear about this? and happen to know where i can get it?  i remember seeing it mentioned on some website but i forget where now
Mar 23 02:39:34 <zhobbs> tmcneal: yeah jasta did it...let me find url
Mar 23 02:40:00 <zhobbs> tmcneal: http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html
Mar 23 02:42:05 <tmcneal> sweet, thanks!
Mar 23 02:42:19 <zhobbs> yeah, just broke it out a second ago to peek at some selectors
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 23 02:59:56 2008