**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 24 02:59:57 2008 Mar 24 04:45:39 For anyone interested: http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/advanced-tab-activity-demo.html Mar 24 04:59:02 hey, does anyone know about possible business distribution models for android Mar 24 04:59:22 like, if I want to sell my app per install or per month usage? Mar 24 05:02:33 you're getting the cart a bit ahead of the horse...there aren't any Android devices yet, let alone distribution channels... Mar 24 05:03:41 Well, for one thing, it's really easy to decompile all java apps, from my understanding, so it would be hard for anyone to put lockdowns or even be able to trust a client Mar 24 05:04:52 I think there will eventually be a way to write native binaries Mar 24 05:05:55 it's pretty clear how to sell an iphone app, and like you're saying, there are no distribution channels for android. That's fine with me if they just want to encourage open source software on their platform, but I just want to be aware about what kind of business model I should expect to embrace for my app Mar 24 05:06:39 nobodyreally knows yet... Mar 24 05:12:05 has anyone printed out the android docs? Mar 24 05:12:11 it's hard to print html... Mar 24 05:27:31 does anyone know if you can customize the options menu? by default it has a gap above the text for an icon but I don't plan on displaying an icon so I am wanting to get rid of that gap Mar 24 05:34:09 you should definitely display an icon. even if it's sort of a stupid one :) Mar 24 05:37:43 I want to be able to use their DatePicker, but make certain dates have static background colors, with a legend Mar 24 05:39:15 out do I figure out if that's possible? the DatePicker class has a lot of attributes and methods... Mar 24 05:40:33 dunno, i've never looked at that particular widget Mar 24 05:41:00 i guess I might have to make my own "calendar" with a table layout Mar 24 05:42:36 oooh, I can set a background, from android.view.View, since the size of the datepicker doesn't change I could just make the background be one big file Mar 24 05:46:49 why the push for an icon in the options menu? :) Mar 24 05:47:32 are they suppose to be 64x64 like the application icon? Mar 24 06:51:33 http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/google/android/samples/text/Link.html Mar 24 06:51:37 haha, is that a joke? Mar 24 06:55:57 what a useless example Mar 24 06:56:06 then don't use it raidfive ;) Mar 24 06:56:30 how do I make some text a link to a website? :) Mar 24 07:06:20 Feel free to create more lucid examples Mar 24 07:07:16 does google have a place to submit user created examples? Mar 24 07:07:49 seems like making text a link would be easy but I can't find any docs on it Mar 24 07:08:42 http://android-developers.blogspot.com/ Mar 24 07:08:50 that wiki example showed up on google code Mar 24 07:13:10 cool I'll read over that Mar 24 07:15:28 it would be cool to see some open projects that were open even before the contest deadline like wiki-notes win a prize Mar 24 07:25:57 the major issue is probably not the challenge itself, but the fact that good code takes a long time to author. Mar 24 07:26:15 my project, for example, is not currently mature enough to release anyway. Mar 24 07:26:37 and even after the first round, i suspect there will still be lots of problems barring it from widespread use. Mar 24 07:29:18 yeah, that's another thing, there is a huge difference between a project that has been worked on for 6 months and 1 month, so a lot of people who started earlier will have a lot more mature projects Mar 24 07:29:31 I suspect the round 2 will have much stiffer competition Mar 24 07:29:41 also, they don't even consider their sdk alpha yet Mar 24 07:30:07 i started just after christmas, and i still have a long, long way to go for a mature product. Mar 24 07:30:16 and i have not been slacking, i just have a very large and sophisticated project. Mar 24 07:30:19 do you think you'll win, jasta ? Mar 24 07:30:40 i think that is a strong possibility Mar 24 07:30:49 wow, that's awesome Mar 24 07:31:46 my application is certainly non-trivial, does not currently exist in any known fashion, and is very practical. my interpretation of the challenge rules is that my project is spot on to what google is looking for. Mar 24 07:32:35 I'd like to be able to post sample apks for people download after I submit it, but I would want for those alpha apps to expire if I ever wanted to sell the final version Mar 24 07:33:03 i don't know if apps will auto-update or what. It sure would be annoying to turn on my phone and see it needs to update 5 apps Mar 24 07:33:49 honestly, you should just ignore what you can't control. Mar 24 07:33:56 and be willing to adapt as necessary Mar 24 07:36:31 I don't get what google gets out of projects that they give the final awards to. Like say, you have a pretty good music app, and it's in the top 10, and they give you $275k, according to what I see, you are under no obligation to improve it after that Mar 24 07:37:28 no, but that would be counter-intuitive. Mar 24 07:37:48 i mean, if you get $300K from google and want to develop a commercial app, you already have a strong starting point to make way, way more money. Mar 24 07:38:13 if you get $300K from google and all you wanted was a simple open source app, you could release it and never work on it again Mar 24 07:38:33 so, what would you do jasta ? Mar 24 07:38:58 i will be releasing my app open source after round 1 is over. Mar 24 07:39:01 I don't see the business plan for making way more money at this point, with the iphone it's obvious Mar 24 07:39:59 i am wanting to enter the mobile industry in other ways, not through this app. Mar 24 07:40:13 i will probably take the resulting notoriety and use it to make some "adjustments" to my career. Mar 24 07:40:58 sounds like you have more figured out than I do, jasta :) Mar 24 07:45:28 i will happily admit that my primary reason for developing my challenge app is because i personally want this app to exist. Mar 24 07:45:33 i personally want to use it, on my cell phone. Mar 24 07:46:17 it is merely a side-effect that it might be worth $300K to Google. Mar 24 07:48:51 so, are people normally going to be using the touch screen or the arrow-pad? Mar 24 07:49:04 are some android devices not going to have touch screens? Mar 24 07:49:50 for example, with the iphone, some apps come up with usable buttons instead of having to hit the menu button, which is nicer when you are using the touch screen primarily Mar 24 07:50:16 but the default android contact list, for example requires that you hit the menu button to add a contact Mar 24 07:50:28 i would find that annoying compared to an iphone Mar 24 07:53:56 <_avatar> hmm, so I'm monitoring heap usage in my application, and routinely see it raise to about 70%... should i worry about it being so high? what happens when it reaches 100%? Mar 24 07:57:34 <_avatar> will the process be killed? will i throw an out of memory exception? Mar 24 07:57:49 <_avatar> i don't plan on reaching 100%, but it'd be nice to know what type of behavior to expect :) Mar 24 09:39:33 any idea what the best way to change a widget background dynamically is? Mar 24 09:44:43 on neat .setBackgroundColor Mar 24 11:20:17 mornin Mar 24 11:26:04 morning cutmasta Mar 24 11:27:06 some ukranian company just bid on my elance android project and sent me a demo of a project they made, they said it took them 200 hours... I'm not that impressed Mar 24 11:27:25 :) Mar 24 11:27:46 if anyone wants to see the demo though I could post it somewhere Mar 24 12:46:53 hey, I'm having trouble creating a custom component, mmm Mar 24 13:47:39 time for a new topic! Mar 24 13:47:54 yea Mar 24 13:56:52 http://pastebin.ca/955239 Mar 24 13:57:40 how do I get that datepicker to show up with a white background? I can make it white if I do dp.setBackgroundColor, but I want to customize my own class Mar 24 13:59:19 why don't you just call this.setBackgroundColor in the constructor for CustomDatePIcker Mar 24 14:00:21 i did that too, that doesn't work Mar 24 14:00:36 i tried a bunch of things, i just didn't paste all the failures Mar 24 14:00:51 this.setBackgroundColor(0xFFFFFFFF); Mar 24 14:00:52 it works to set the background color in the Activity? Mar 24 14:00:58 yes Mar 24 14:01:15 oh, in the constructor, or in the ondraw override? Mar 24 14:01:32 I would think you could call it in the constructor Mar 24 14:01:51 ok that works Mar 24 14:01:57 why not the ondraw override? Mar 24 14:02:04 thanks zhobbs I suck at java Mar 24 14:02:11 it must be something obvious I guess Mar 24 14:02:32 ondraw is for when you want to draw the whole thing yourself Mar 24 14:03:00 better to just set the bg color in the constructor and then let the normal ondraw do it's stuff Mar 24 14:03:43 or ondraw can be used to add some kind of overlay, or tint, etc Mar 24 14:03:56 cool, thanks zhobbs Mar 24 14:08:52 zhobbs: hey, i wrote a pretty cool TabActivity demo if you're interested Mar 24 14:09:01 http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/advanced-tab-activity-demo.html Mar 24 14:09:13 cool jasta Mar 24 14:09:21 downloading.. Mar 24 14:09:58 it dawned on me that i actually had the necessary information to do this thanks to my earlier reverse engineering :) Mar 24 14:10:16 have you checked the tab lifecycle? Mar 24 14:10:25 i found layout-finger/tab_indicator.xml, color-finger/tab_indicator_text.xml, ... ;) Mar 24 14:10:35 muthu: what do you mean? Mar 24 14:10:46 i was having trouble with the lifecycle Mar 24 14:11:01 hmm, didn't seem to be an issue for me, though my demo is very small Mar 24 14:11:04 was trying to use an "intent" as the tab content Mar 24 14:11:11 that is what i did. Mar 24 14:11:25 cool..i'll feedback after checking it out Mar 24 14:14:50 btw, the graphics i made are kind of terrible. if anyone would like to improve, i'd very much so appreciate it. i'm intending to use this code in the way that i have demonstrated :) Mar 24 14:15:00 (hehe, i am ripping off the iphone left and right *grin*) Mar 24 14:15:34 i'm terrible at graphics Mar 24 14:23:37 jasta: neat! Mar 24 14:23:59 jasta: nice demo, we need to keep copying the iPhone Mar 24 14:24:27 i am not very creative, so i have little choice but to steal from things that i know people like. Mar 24 14:24:39 I'm the same way Mar 24 14:24:44 tab_indicator.xml - impressive Mar 24 14:25:15 which one? there is a drawable and layout Mar 24 14:26:12 drawable - of course Mar 24 14:26:20 jasta: you've covered the basics well - great job Mar 24 14:27:33 thanks Mar 24 14:27:55 i'm actually using this in my main app now Mar 24 14:28:17 it's a good demo because the docs lack so much Mar 24 14:31:56 nice demo jasta Mar 24 14:32:09 hey, can someone explain to me what this 8 hex character color thing is? Mar 24 14:32:21 AARRGGBB Mar 24 14:32:27 alpha? Mar 24 14:32:29 Alpha Red Green Blue Mar 24 14:32:29 for transparancy? Mar 24 14:32:46 yeah, FF is solid, 00 means transparent Mar 24 14:32:51 thanks Mar 24 14:34:28 i'll test the lifecycle now Mar 24 14:34:32 jasta: btw your xml dump is still in binary :( Mar 24 14:38:00 :( Mar 24 14:38:19 muthu: what's binary? Mar 24 14:39:34 zhobss: jasta reverse engineered the xml files Mar 24 14:39:44 yeah, I saw that Mar 24 14:40:01 i thought it was in xml format Mar 24 14:40:31 may be a few of them did not get converted Mar 24 14:40:57 Oh, I think he said a couple don't convert maybe..but all the ones I've looked at have converted to xml Mar 24 14:41:37 ok.. i was checking out the expandable list items.. Mar 24 14:42:32 time for dinner :) Mar 24 14:44:03 those convert. check out my dump of all of them tho. Mar 24 15:00:41 hi morrildl Mar 24 15:01:57 morning, jasta Mar 24 15:03:14 i discovered a quite serious bug over the weekend. i was wondering if maybe you could have an engineer spy it for me? :) Mar 24 15:05:20 http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=501&can=1&q=reporter:jasta00&colspec=ID%20Type%20Version%20Security%20Status%20Owner%20Summary Mar 24 15:17:29 jasta: interesting, a crash in JDWP on the device side Mar 24 15:17:42 jasta: thx for the report Mar 24 15:18:28 yeah, it's very reproducible for me. Mar 24 15:18:40 in one particular function in a jar exported from a library i wrote. Mar 24 15:18:52 if i hide the local variables view in Eclipse, it won't crash. Mar 24 15:18:56 as soon as I show it, kaboom :) Mar 24 15:19:08 that's crazy Mar 24 15:19:24 zhobbs: not as crazy as you might think Mar 24 15:19:51 it was especially irritating because i wasn't debugging that function for my health, ya know? :) Mar 24 15:19:55 the jdb integration works via an implemention JDWP of on both sides of the device Mar 24 15:20:10 like any code, the JDWP implementation can have bugs :) Mar 24 15:20:29 since it isn't running Java on the "inside" there's a certain amount of grey-area translation going on Mar 24 15:21:12 also, there's a nasty memory leak in Base64Utils.decodeBase64 Mar 24 15:21:15 i posted another bug about that :) Mar 24 15:21:17 hahahahaha Mar 24 15:21:24 yeah we know that one, I believe Mar 24 15:21:38 the current source tree has 3 different implementations of base64 Mar 24 15:21:43 i noticed that. Mar 24 15:21:46 one of the things we are doing is tidying that up :) Mar 24 15:21:49 so, i added my own Mar 24 16:06:44 my PhoneFinder app idea was stolen (and improved upon a LOT): http://lostandroid.com Mar 24 16:06:59 looks like a nice web interface Mar 24 16:11:14 great app Mar 24 16:11:29 yeah Mar 24 16:11:43 privacy concerns...but cool Mar 24 16:11:57 phone finder..friend finder.. finders!! Mar 24 16:12:24 i need a laptop finder Mar 24 16:12:29 yea Mar 24 16:12:45 * davidw needs a money finder Mar 24 16:12:50 lol Mar 24 16:13:27 finders on your mobile will be the next google Mar 24 16:13:55 zhobbs: have i told you about my idea for a "secret" contacts app? Mar 24 16:14:08 yeah you did Mar 24 16:14:23 it's a great idea, just don't let your better half know :) Mar 24 16:14:27 everyone is anticipation jasta Mar 24 16:14:37 orders are filling up ;) Mar 24 16:15:46 i thought about selling that type of app at first actually. i was originally going to write it for Windows Mobile and I figured the sorts of people who would want it are duncey salesmen who would pay BIG for something like that :) Mar 24 16:16:13 but then i realized i'd have to come up with creative billing like Playboy and Penthouse so as not to put a line on their credit card statement saying "SECRET CHEAT ON YOUR WIFE CONTACT APP PRO!" :) Mar 24 16:16:14 anything "secret" is a great business idea Mar 24 16:16:47 if you can guarantee privacy, it would sell Mar 24 16:16:59 yeah there are probably some business men out there that will pay big bucks to keep their secrets Mar 24 16:17:07 and then Android came along, and my philanthropic side took over. I'll release it for free for the good, or perhaps detriment of, mankind. Mar 24 16:17:25 it would be a great hit Mar 24 16:17:34 but you need to hide your app Mar 24 16:17:42 it should be in stealth mode Mar 24 16:17:53 of course, i had thought i would have it password protected by a gesture on the home screen Mar 24 16:18:06 don't let oprah hear about it, she'll give the details on how to check a phone for it Mar 24 16:18:17 something slightly awkward even, like maybe start by holding down two awkward buttons, pressing in an area of the screen etc. Mar 24 16:18:32 it would be really hard to do keep your app a secret Mar 24 16:18:32 and i'll have the sequence randomly generated uniquely for each app install Mar 24 16:18:39 disguise it as a calculator Mar 24 16:18:45 lol Mar 24 16:18:55 put in a certain combination of calculations to access :) Mar 24 16:19:00 speaking of which Mar 24 16:19:14 zhobbs: good idea Mar 24 16:19:21 integrate with the existing apps Mar 24 16:19:24 set your password as 3+3*pi/4 or whatever Mar 24 16:19:25 my high school girlfriend sent me a text message yesterday to say "Happy Easter". "Happy Easter"? Wtf, yeah right. Mar 24 16:19:55 jasta: she likes you Mar 24 16:20:12 well i know, she's the reason i thought of this stupid app :) Mar 24 16:20:29 ha ha Mar 24 16:21:13 she's crazy though, i'm not down. Mar 24 16:21:35 the problem is, though, i can't really bring myself to block her number, but i won't put her number in my phone because my gf will see it Mar 24 16:21:49 so she just occassionally sends me messages or calls, and i have no good policy to deal with it Mar 24 16:22:00 that's a real problem Mar 24 16:22:20 and it's not frequent enough that i'm really pissed about it or anything Mar 24 16:22:32 but i feel like i should have come up with some bullet-proof scheme for handling these events. Mar 24 16:22:37 that's where the idea came from Mar 24 16:22:51 nice.. real solutions for real problems Mar 24 16:22:57 being able to actively ignore them, while still being able to track the events is perfect :) Mar 24 16:23:10 it satisfies my curiousity, while simultaneously keeping me out of trouble. perfect. Mar 24 16:23:48 perfect indeed. Mar 24 16:24:20 you know what.. its a global problem. Mar 24 16:27:17 Mar 24 16:27:38 muthu: space bar stuck? Mar 24 16:27:44 yeah Mar 24 16:28:06 my daughter broke it yesterday Mar 24 16:28:20 your girlfriend looks through your contacts? Mar 24 16:28:29 now its stuck Mar 24 17:44:42 chomchom: *poke* Mar 24 17:57:45 http://pastebin.ca/955467 Mar 24 17:57:53 why do I have to specify the type for dp? Mar 24 18:01:07 rhett: Because findViewById returns a View. Java has strong type safety, and as such will require an explicit cast when you are attempting to break it down. Mar 24 18:02:14 i see jasta , thanks I should really investigate these things more myself Mar 24 18:04:32 What is most simple method of reading XML in android? Mar 24 18:05:38 rhett: The cast has the useful side-effect of throwing a runtime exception if the type is not what you expect it to be. Mar 24 18:26:33 hi #android Mar 24 18:28:14 hi Mar 24 18:29:02 how's trix Mar 24 18:32:09 rhett: i strongly recommend taht you at least gather a basic appreciation for Java before you start trying to write Android code. Mar 24 18:32:52 there are enough gotchas in Android specifically that you will likely be unable to write correct code by just "faking it" Mar 24 18:33:42 i realize many entries will come at the last minute, but is there any indication of how many entries there will be for the android contest ? Mar 24 18:34:11 something tells me they're not sharing that information... Mar 24 18:34:32 i guess there are no friendly googlers here then ;) Mar 24 18:34:46 plenty of friendly googlers Mar 24 18:35:02 doesn't mean they can share private company info Mar 24 18:35:07 i understand. Mar 24 18:35:14 d3d: on the blog there was a poll and about 400 or something was the result Mar 24 18:35:23 iirc Mar 24 18:36:01 Lede, i did see that, though i remember it being lower.. Mar 24 18:36:09 or lower Mar 24 18:36:22 i have the memory of a car tire Mar 24 18:37:04 as usual for me i've decided to jump in with an entry at the last second.. working with a doctor - researcher friend in the health area, something strongly wiki-oriented Mar 24 18:37:09 dammit, my app stores data in a car tire! Mar 24 18:38:00 so much for CarTire.java Mar 24 18:38:36 D: Mar 24 18:39:31 i hope you aren't one of the googlers ;) Mar 24 18:39:39 me? no Mar 24 18:40:05 when i get older i will work at google as toilet cleaner Mar 24 18:40:20 like the little blue bricks you drop into the tank? Mar 24 18:40:37 oh no, he's been automated out of a job already Mar 24 18:40:39 stuff like that Mar 24 18:41:09 d3d: lol Mar 24 18:41:24 I have a friend who coded a coworker out of a job Mar 24 18:41:27 well, it's probably more environmently friendly to use a person Mar 24 18:41:29 they didn't get along Mar 24 18:41:37 d3d: probably Mar 24 18:41:45 i'm organic Mar 24 18:41:56 * Lede flexes arms Mar 24 18:47:40 i've coded two people out of jobs, actually. Mar 24 18:47:51 with direction from management to do so Mar 24 18:47:56 lol Mar 24 18:48:23 I don't think I've ever done it... Mar 24 18:48:28 not directly, anyway Mar 24 18:48:40 actually, the tool that did it was sold to other reps in the US as well, so it may have lost a much larger number of people their jobs Mar 24 18:48:50 ;-( Mar 24 18:49:46 people here used to manually go through these huge lists of engineering drawings and diagrams and simply mark them, highlighting the fixture information and putting a little box in the corner stating job information and stuff. Mar 24 18:50:17 so the first version of my tool did that job, causing one perosn to get let go. Mar 24 18:50:36 It's always amazing how many things companies do manually that could easily be replaced with code Mar 24 18:50:47 then the second version went out to the Internet and actually collected the drawings, which let the other person go. Mar 24 18:51:17 heh Mar 24 18:51:19 most of our manufacturers have very well written public web sites which worked great with google search for their part numbers and site:whoevercompany.com Mar 24 18:51:22 and filetype:pdf Mar 24 18:51:48 most jobs we do have 600+ drawings, and the tool automatically downloads at least 80%. Mar 24 18:51:58 does anyone know if it's practical to embed a local http server in an android vm Mar 24 18:52:19 what for? Mar 24 18:52:27 my job here is basically automation monkey. i turn stupid jobs into easy jobs, thus allowing departments to handle inreased work loads without hiring extra bodies. Mar 24 18:52:32 everyone asks that.. so the app can be web based as much as possible Mar 24 18:53:19 So you want to write a webserver in Java? Mar 24 18:53:22 d3d: that is sort of ridiculous, don't you think? Mar 24 18:53:48 sure, but i like the explore the ridiculous. i know you can set up a "webserver" in very few lines of code in jdk 1.6 Mar 24 18:53:49 if you really want that arrangement, however, Google Gears is what you're looking for. Mar 24 18:54:21 though it currently doesn't work on Android, i think you'd be crazy to think it's not coming. Mar 24 18:54:36 considering google released gears fro windows mobile Mar 24 18:55:03 i'm thinking partially of offline work, balancing redeveloping an app layer vs carrying over the web layer (using html as an interface) Mar 24 18:56:01 but probably google would prefer any project to use their widgets Mar 24 18:56:16 i would imagine Mar 24 18:56:56 or perhaps their SDK Mar 24 18:57:12 well that is precisely what gears is for. your app can be entirely web-based and abstract, but at the same time not stupid and slow :) Mar 24 18:57:34 though i still think web-based apps are absolutely the wrong approach for mobile devices. Mar 24 18:57:42 ya Mar 24 18:57:52 jasta, i agree, except what i have in mind should be web accessible as well Mar 24 18:58:00 they satisfy 1 goal, portability, but unfortunately none others. Mar 24 18:58:27 d3d: then it would be appropriate to design an abstract framework which you can attach to from multiple types of clients. Mar 24 18:58:45 jasta, yes, that's my plan Mar 24 18:59:05 rather than using a framework which is inherently that, but unfortunately also inherently very inefficient. Mar 24 18:59:52 Where can I download up-to date documentation for Android? One with last SDK has huge holes Mar 24 18:59:57 i think modern web apps can be quite responsive with sophisticated controls, but trying to do all that in an android app would be asking too much Mar 24 19:00:22 I just use the documentation online Mar 24 19:00:33 not that it's hole-free, though Mar 24 19:00:34 however my app would require using an html renderer, which i hope is straightforward.. it doesn't really make sense to redevelop a rich text display Mar 24 19:02:34 i wonder how many people will submit a "note taking" program Mar 24 19:02:51 i think about 500 Mar 24 19:02:54 D: Mar 24 19:03:24 hopefully Mar 24 19:03:27 I'd been thinking of writing a personal wiki...Im glad I decided not to. Mar 24 19:03:38 since they wrote one already ;-) Mar 24 19:03:50 using WikiWords ... ugh Mar 24 19:04:08 Yeah, CamelCaseIsAStupidWayToMakeAWiki Mar 24 19:04:15 though since it's just regexes, i suppose it could use [[What ever]] Mar 24 19:04:17 you people are thinking too small :) Mar 24 19:04:24 I need an html renderer and script engine for my app badly :/ Mar 24 19:04:38 jasta: why do you say that Mar 24 19:04:46 does android support rhino or another js engine Mar 24 19:05:30 No Mar 24 19:05:48 It has some js inside WebKit, but doesn;t show it to anyone Mar 24 19:06:08 that's too bad :( this really is ground floor Mar 24 19:06:20 mihoshi: doesn't show it? Mar 24 19:06:42 Yes, doesn't provide any real java interface to it Mar 24 19:06:52 B0jangles: well, i mean for the ADC. a gimmicky program you could whip up in a week is extremely unlikely to win. Mar 24 19:07:06 mihoshi: Oh, yes. Mar 24 19:07:17 jasta: well, I did say I decided *not* to do that... Mar 24 19:07:26 but even if you had, it wouldn't win :) Mar 24 19:07:30 that's pretty much my idea, with some twists ;) Mar 24 19:08:01 jasta: well, yeah, especially since Google already wrote one. Regardless, my entry has nothing to do with wikis... Mar 24 19:08:18 however, i plan to use the phrase "web 2.0" a lot Mar 24 19:08:24 d3d: ugh Mar 24 19:08:28 Well, everything what I have seen so far is not that much creative... Mar 24 19:08:32 jasta: though, I do love personal wikis Mar 24 19:09:15 mihoshi: My guess is most people are not sharing publicly their ideas, and certainly not their implementations. Mar 24 19:09:57 google should use more of a collaborative building blocks approach Mar 24 19:10:12 i have not been safe-guarding my idea, mostly because i think it's "devil in the details". Mar 24 19:10:30 but im sure that's a bit uncommon among participants. Mar 24 19:10:45 I've just been copying all of jasta's code... Mar 24 19:10:49 j/k Mar 24 19:10:52 jasta, so where's your project description ... Mar 24 19:11:20 still, my project is currently at 13K loc, several separate components, and i'd say i'm half done with my final goal. Mar 24 19:11:32 d3d: nowhere, i merely explain it freely. Mar 24 19:12:09 Am I the only one who's found that development is taking way longer than expected? Mar 24 19:12:24 maybe I'm just slow Mar 24 19:12:34 B0jangles: I knew going into it that my project was going to be an enormous amount of work, so I can't say that I feel like I'm behind schedule. Mar 24 19:12:46 I started late Dec, and have been working about 2 - 3 hours per day on average. Mar 24 19:13:03 wow, that is a lot of work Mar 24 19:13:06 and like i said, about half way done with my core set of goals. there will be much work to be done after that, of course. Mar 24 19:13:31 tuning, bug fixes, optimizations, etc. also, i plan to develop a component entirely separate from Android after the challenge. Mar 24 19:14:02 my project is a system which sensibly lets you access your home media collection (music is my primary focus, though it can be extended). Mar 24 19:14:07 What are you going to submit at April 14th? Mar 24 19:15:09 based on standard protocols that could be a shoe in Mar 24 19:15:14 more of a prototype, which works, but doesn't have many of my secondary, optional goals. Mar 24 19:15:25 d3d: it is based on standard protocols, i use SyncML and HTTP. Mar 24 19:15:36 and while you believe it is a shoe-in, you are thinking much, much too small. Mar 24 19:16:30 also, i have to implement the server component of course (which i have done) Mar 24 19:16:45 and the android piece has to be really well optimized just to make it work at all (this is a lot of data we're talking about here) Mar 24 19:17:26 for example, the server-side database for my personal collection is currently 28MB, that includes a small bit of last.fm meta data, artwork, etc. Mar 24 19:17:27 I think, there is no much sense in heavy optimization until we get a eal devices Mar 24 19:17:49 well, let's not call these optimizations: we'll call it sensible, efficient design from the start. Mar 24 19:17:59 "hacking" it together would simply not work with this much data involved. Mar 24 19:18:34 actually i was thinking more of mcx, wmc, etc Mar 24 19:18:43 plus my system is not simply engineered to be a silly proof-of-concept. i have designed it with the intention of releasing as a usable framework, with the intention of extending it thoroughly. Mar 24 19:19:10 dlna type stuffs Mar 24 19:19:10 d3d: lol, are you serious? Mar 24 19:19:17 yup Mar 24 19:19:55 my n95 supports UPnP, why shouldn't a gphone Mar 24 19:20:18 not only would that be extruciatingly limited, it would also be horribly slow and non-portable. Mar 24 19:20:37 that design would be unworkably bad. Mar 24 19:21:10 but if your highest level is syncml and http, it seems like you'd eventually end up reimplementing an existing standard Mar 24 19:22:41 yes, very probably, because no generalized protocol exists to do what i need, and you'd be insane to pick a Microsoft protocol as your basis to extend. Mar 24 19:23:28 but upnp &c is not a microsoft protocol any more than usb is, it is adopted by sony, nokia, and open source projects like mytht Mar 24 19:23:30 mythtv Mar 24 19:24:04 UPnP does nothing to solve this problem. Mar 24 19:24:16 which makes it quite intersting when all my mythtv recordings show up as audio tracks on my xbox 360 and of course none paly Mar 24 19:25:19 Bonkers, that's not surprising, it's in its infancy, though it'd be great if jasta's software would provide a solution ;) Mar 24 19:25:42 Perhaps you grossly misunderstand the intention of my software. Mar 24 19:25:53 UPnP is an entirely irrelevant technology. Mar 24 19:25:56 quite likely ;) Mar 24 19:27:00 UPnP is simply an abstraction of devices on a network, it does not help you provide a lot of meaningful dialog between those devices. That is the job of another technology. Mar 24 19:27:23 so you wouldn't build your solution on top of upnp ? Mar 24 19:27:26 And UPnP's definition of a network is generally limited to private networks, nothing like the public Internet, whcih my technology operates on. Mar 24 19:28:03 To break it down to its basic components, you would run a server on your home computer, configure your phone to connect through your home Internet connection, and synchronize everything OTA. Mar 24 19:28:09 it does seem to support NAT traversal.. but it's your thing, sounds like you have a handle on it Mar 24 19:28:21 Specifically, separating meta data and structure from content so that certain data can transmit passively while the rest of it streams. Mar 24 19:29:04 the server, in this case, would use UPnP only to poke a hole in your local firewall, if your router supports that. Mar 24 19:29:30 well, i'm referring to upnp av, but it's just a buzzword i heard in passing that sounded similar to what you're talking about Mar 24 19:29:53 Well it was quite inappropriate to suggest, trust me. Mar 24 19:30:00 Mar 24 19:30:07 So to was your WMX/WMC suggestion. In fact, that was downright absurd. Mar 24 19:30:16 too* Mar 24 19:30:54 Still, this is why I have no reservation sharing my idea publicly. The devil is in the details. It is hard to implement effectively with such limited resources. Mar 24 19:32:08 One of the reasons that there's so little innovation in the mobile industry is because, quite frankly, it's hard work to write mobile apps well. They seem simpler because their feature set is well bound and the UI is small, but that actually makes things much, much harder. Mar 24 19:32:22 no kidding.. well good luck, i hope it works out for everyone. i gotta run Mar 24 19:32:27 good advice Mar 24 19:33:01 advice? :) Mar 24 19:33:12 was my advice "don't write mobile apps, it sucks?" :) Mar 24 19:33:55 advice == what you wrote above... it makes sense. Mar 24 19:53:13 jasta: *poke back* Mar 24 19:54:43 thats me just in, I lurk on irc while I'm at work in the hope to absorb all knowledge that may have flowed through the room in my absence. Mar 24 19:55:03 Is there anyone from the UK in here? Mar 24 19:56:12