**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 26 02:59:56 2008
Mar 26 03:35:24 <dueynz> whens the compo finsih
Mar 26 03:35:27 <dueynz> i should start
Mar 26 03:35:34 <jasta> apr 14th is the round 1 deadline
Mar 26 03:35:43 <dueynz> oshit
Mar 26 03:35:52 <dueynz> meh probably won't enter
Mar 26 03:36:07 <jasta> i would be surprised if you could "throw together" an app in time.
Mar 26 03:36:10 <jasta> ...very surprised :)
Mar 26 03:36:35 <dueynz> i would be able to
Mar 26 03:36:48 <dueynz> just to many assignments due on or around thatdate
Mar 26 03:37:19 <dueynz> ill release it in august
Mar 26 03:37:31 <dueynz> i have to have it completed by then
Mar 26 03:38:44 <jasta> even having no responsibilities whatsoever it would be difficult to put together a winning submission in this short a time frame.
Mar 26 03:39:04 <dueynz> doubt it
Mar 26 03:39:08 <jasta> if your app is really so miserably trivial, then why would it win?
Mar 26 03:39:23 <dueynz> because i doubt they are looking for something fine tuned
Mar 26 03:39:53 <jasta> I think you might be surprised by how many quality submissions are going to be available by Apr 14th.
Mar 26 03:40:04 <dueynz> soon see i guess :)
Mar 26 03:40:10 <jasta> some developers, unlike yourself, do not wait until 2 weeks before the deadline to get started.
Mar 26 03:40:12 <dueynz> probably won't enter anyway
Mar 26 03:40:25 <dueynz> 2 weeks is my usual deadline time
Mar 26 03:40:28 <dueynz> used to it
Mar 26 03:41:05 <jasta> you have a scalability problem then, sir.
Mar 26 03:41:10 <dueynz> haha
Mar 26 03:41:31 <dueynz> ill throw it together tonight and do the testing tomorrow
Mar 26 03:41:56 <jasta> well, if you feel that gives you a fair chance at the prize, go for it.
Mar 26 03:42:21 <dueynz> im not after the prize
Mar 26 03:42:27 <dueynz> im after feedback
Mar 26 03:42:35 <jasta> Google is unlikely to provide you with any feedback.
Mar 26 03:42:40 <dueynz> meh
Mar 26 03:42:56 <jasta> Given the volume of submissions, I suspect the only feed back you will receive is a $25,000 check.
Mar 26 03:43:04 <jasta> ...or nothing.
Mar 26 03:43:30 <dueynz> i am assuming round 2 involves implementation of suggestions considering the minimal timeframe in between
Mar 26 03:43:39 <dueynz> or something along those lines
Mar 26 03:43:54 <jasta> I think your assumptions are inconsistent with the reality of non-trivial software design.
Mar 26 03:44:10 <dueynz> well they want to use these apps to advertise the product right?
Mar 26 03:44:55 <jasta> That seems like a sensible goal, yes.  I, nor you, know precisely what they want however.
Mar 26 03:45:14 <dueynz> ok well if you read the TOS it says something along the lines of using the app to promote the platform
Mar 26 03:45:43 <jasta> It says that you grant them the right to do so.  You can infer from that that they wish to use it for such purposes, but that is not a fact.
Mar 26 03:45:45 <dueynz> so it would make sense to give people feedback, such as interface design specs such that all the apps are somewhat consistant
Mar 26 03:46:43 <jasta> It would not make sense to give feedback for every or even most projects, nor would it be fair to give feedback to winning submissions as they will then be in competition for the extra prizes.
Mar 26 03:47:18 <jasta> Only after the challenge is complete would it make sense for Google to intervene significantly.
Mar 26 03:47:29 <dueynz> well we don't know what the second compo is
Mar 26 03:47:40 <dueynz> it might be best implementation of feedback :)
Mar 26 03:47:45 <jasta> This is not, as you assume, an episode of American Idol.
Mar 26 03:48:04 <dueynz> who said I am assuming that?
Mar 26 03:48:18 <jasta> dueynz: What second "compo"?  The first round is the qualifying round; if you do not win it, you are ineligible to win the next round.
Mar 26 03:48:36 <dueynz> second round then
Mar 26 03:49:18 <jasta> Do you mean the second ADC?
Mar 26 03:49:25 <jasta> There will be two, each with 2 rounds.
Mar 26 03:49:32 <dueynz> no
Mar 26 03:49:40 <dueynz> i mean the second round of this competition
Mar 26 03:50:49 <dueynz> jasta: I have to do this project for whether I am in the competition or not
Mar 26 03:52:58 <dueynz> the problem is my project heavily relies on the camera
Mar 26 03:53:25 <dueynz> and content in the photos that the camera takes
Mar 26 03:53:45 <dueynz> so i can't do that part of the project until a working camera emulator is available
Mar 26 03:56:22 <jasta_> oops, lost connection to irc
Mar 26 04:29:39 <jasta> Hmm, there apparently is a very low practical limit on the depth of our XML layouts.
Mar 26 04:36:07 <muthu> what's the depth?
Mar 26 04:38:48 <B0jangles> depth, as in, number of nested elements?
Mar 26 04:39:05 <muthu> i think that's what he means
Mar 26 04:39:06 <jasta> yeah
Mar 26 04:39:10 <jasta> looks like this is a known problem.
Mar 26 04:39:11 <B0jangles> how many?
Mar 26 04:39:14 <jasta> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/277e81c07591219f/d3f4a073b375c9e5?#d3f4a073b375c9e5
Mar 26 04:39:22 <muthu> how many? how many?
Mar 26 04:39:32 <B0jangles> hmm
Mar 26 04:39:33 <B0jangles> 6?
Mar 26 04:39:50 <B0jangles> Does it only happen with ViewGroups?
Mar 26 04:39:56 <muthu> 6 - 9?
Mar 26 04:40:08 <B0jangles> Yeah, I guess 6-9
Mar 26 04:40:10 <B0jangles> huh
Mar 26 04:40:19 <B0jangles> I haven't gotten more than 3 or 4 I think
Mar 26 04:40:41 <jasta> ViewGroups are the basis for every type of layout.
Mar 26 04:40:49 <muthu> mostly i stop at 3
Mar 26 04:40:55 <jasta> and the only type that can have nested views.
Mar 26 04:41:06 <B0jangles> Ah, yes, I suppose that's correct
Mar 26 04:41:07 <muthu> haven't had any real need to go beyond 3
Mar 26 04:41:15 <jasta> I'm thinking that my problem is coming from the fact that I use ViewInflate.inflate() a lot, which adds 1 extra layer each time totally unnecessarily
Mar 26 04:41:23 <muthu> oh.. ok
Mar 26 04:41:35 <jasta> since their API is kind of stupidly broken there.
Mar 26 04:42:03 <jasta> i guess they have addressed that in the next SDK, though.
Mar 26 04:42:05 <muthu> lately we are getting interesting replies in the group
Mar 26 04:42:26 <B0jangles> such as?
Mar 26 04:42:27 <muthu> if you have a bug in the api, you can just mock it up
Mar 26 04:42:38 <muthu> but let them know what the bug is
Mar 26 04:42:51 <muthu> if you have real limitations with the sdk.. whatever it might be
Mar 26 04:42:55 <muthu> gps.. et al
Mar 26 04:44:43 <jasta> sigh
Mar 26 04:44:47 * jasta looks for hackish ways to work around this
Mar 26 04:46:57 <poffy> k guyz. Who wants to help me with some animation crap? :O
Mar 26 04:47:41 <muthu> i've been asked to do animation.. but have been kicked behind for my lack of skills
Mar 26 04:47:45 <muthu> go on poffy
Mar 26 04:47:52 <poffy> k
Mar 26 04:47:56 <poffy> let me paste some stuff
Mar 26 04:48:10 <jasta> use a pastebin please :)
Mar 26 04:48:14 <poffy> I am
Mar 26 04:48:20 <poffy> heh
Mar 26 04:48:22 <poffy> I don't channel flood
Mar 26 04:48:39 <poffy> http://rafb.net/p/DUPMLr13.html
Mar 26 04:48:44 <poffy> That's my drawable xml file
Mar 26 04:48:52 <poffy> I'm using the new animation stuff
Mar 26 04:48:56 <muthu> irc should be like twitter.. it must auto link to pastebin
Mar 26 04:49:20 <poffy> http://rafb.net/p/m4S71H62.html
Mar 26 04:49:24 <poffy> That's my custom view
Mar 26 04:50:59 <poffy> What happens when I click on the screen, is it just displays the first frame
Mar 26 04:51:07 <poffy> rather than the animation
Mar 26 04:51:56 <jasta> I told you to search the Android issue list :)
Mar 26 04:52:02 <poffy> I did
Mar 26 04:52:11 <poffy> Just brought me back to the old stuff
Mar 26 04:52:12 <poffy> that doesn't work
Mar 26 04:52:44 <muthu> poffy did you try the build in view
Mar 26 04:52:45 <jasta> I had this same problem as discussed here:
Mar 26 04:52:53 <muthu> viewflipper
Mar 26 04:53:09 <poffy> Viewfliiper?
Mar 26 04:53:20 <muthu> yeah.. very easy to animate
Mar 26 04:54:48 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=350
Mar 26 04:55:21 <jasta> See the most recent comment I just made discussing the work-around.
Mar 26 04:55:55 <poffy> setAnimationCache
Mar 26 04:55:57 <poffy> l
Mar 26 04:55:58 <poffy> k
Mar 26 04:59:14 <B0jangles> j
Mar 26 04:59:34 <muthu> l
Mar 26 04:59:44 <jasta> h
Mar 26 04:59:51 <poffy> jasta, what class does setAnimatinoCacheEnabled belong to?
Mar 26 04:59:56 <jasta> so, was that a vim joke, or just a keyboard locality joke?
Mar 26 05:00:16 <B0jangles> uh, it was an alphabetical joke for me
Mar 26 05:00:20 <jasta> poffy: If you look at the code, it should be obvious to you.
Mar 26 05:00:31 <_avatar> i have what appears to be unbounded memory growth in my application; i'm monitoring the heap size and object count in DDMS... is there any way to determine how many and what types of objects are alive in a running process?
Mar 26 05:00:32 <jasta> well, mine was a vim joke.  therefore, better. :)
Mar 26 05:00:50 <jasta> _avatar: you aren't using Base64Utils.decodeBase64() are you? :)
Mar 26 05:00:52 <B0jangles> :wq
Mar 26 05:01:13 <_avatar> jasta: haha, no. i worked around that leak by using a 3rd party base64 decoder ;)
Mar 26 05:01:33 <jasta> are you certain not to have any circular references in your code?
Mar 26 05:01:39 <jasta> or lingering references?
Mar 26 05:01:56 <B0jangles> dangling references?
Mar 26 05:02:05 <B0jangles> disaffected references?
Mar 26 05:02:34 <muthu> zombies
Mar 26 05:02:43 <_avatar> i'm not certain, but i try to stay very careful about not creating circular references. i thought java's GC was smart enough to clean circular references?
Mar 26 05:02:46 <_avatar> what are lingering references?
Mar 26 05:02:55 <jasta> yay, i worked around my depth problem by just adjusting one usage of ViewInflate.inflate to attach its children.
Mar 26 05:02:59 <_avatar> sorry, I'm by no means a java expert
Mar 26 05:03:38 <B0jangles> I hate zombies
Mar 26 05:03:39 <_avatar> i suppose google could answer my lingering reference question
Mar 26 05:04:07 <muthu> avatar: are you doing any threads?
Mar 26 05:04:39 <_avatar> muthu: yes, i am
Mar 26 05:05:26 <muthu> hmm.. threads if you are not careful will run amok
Mar 26 05:05:39 <B0jangles> just like zombies
Mar 26 05:05:40 <_avatar> hrm, in what sense?
Mar 26 05:06:16 <muthu> what do you do in your thread?
Mar 26 05:07:03 <_avatar> various things, i have more than 1 worker thread somtimes. one example is a work queue. i post work items and they are processed in the background
Mar 26 05:08:04 <_avatar> that answer's probably to vague to be of any use, heh
Mar 26 05:08:55 <_avatar> i'm under an NDA so i need to be careful what i say
Mar 26 05:09:11 <_avatar> hrm
Mar 26 05:12:34 <_avatar> but there's no way to get a snapshot of the heap, and the number of and type of living objects?
Mar 26 05:12:56 <muthu> there are.. you need to use the ide
Mar 26 05:13:03 <muthu> intellij offers some..
Mar 26 05:13:12 <_avatar> i'm using Eclipse
Mar 26 05:13:31 <muthu> i'll check the eclipse plugins, if any
Mar 26 05:20:12 <poffy> jasta, I really apologize for how stupid my questions might seem, but I've been trying to mess with the code
Mar 26 05:20:15 <poffy> ((ViewGroup)findViewById(R.id.inner2)).setAnimationCacheEnabled(false);
Mar 26 05:20:24 <poffy> It's getting a View and casting as a ViewGroup, right?
Mar 26 05:20:53 <muthu> the layouts are all viewgroup
Mar 26 05:21:02 <muthu> so they can contain other views
Mar 26 05:21:42 <muthu> ViewGroup extends View btw
Mar 26 05:21:49 <poffy> but findViewbyId gets a view, right?
Mar 26 05:21:59 <muthu> yeah..
Mar 26 05:22:23 <poffy> so, in my case, I should get my view and cast as a ViewGroup to turn off the AnimationCache?
Mar 26 05:22:35 <muthu> ViewGroup EXTENDS View
Mar 26 05:22:42 <poffy> ok
Mar 26 05:22:55 <muthu> to get a clear picture.. look at the class hierarchy
Mar 26 05:23:00 <muthu> in the docs.. very useful
Mar 26 05:24:45 <poffy> I try and copy the code with ((ViewGroup)sView).setAnimationCacheEnabled(false);
Mar 26 05:25:40 <poffy> but I get "Cannot cast from StickView to ViewGroup"
Mar 26 05:25:53 <poffy> I apoligize for these newb questions
Mar 26 05:26:09 <poffy> I haven't felt like this since I started C/C++ a few years ago
Mar 26 05:26:10 <poffy> ...
Mar 26 05:26:22 <muthu> StickView is a view
Mar 26 05:26:33 <muthu> cast it to a View
Mar 26 05:26:38 <poffy> ok
Mar 26 05:26:53 <muthu> View sits at the top..
Mar 26 05:29:21 <hoopla> does anyone know how input will be handled? will it be keyboard or exclusively touch screen?
Mar 26 05:32:11 <duey> the red eye is looking at me for a long time
Mar 26 05:32:43 <duey> yay exceptions
Mar 26 05:33:26 <poffy> muthu, when I do ((ViewGroup)(View)sView).setAnimationCacheEnabled(false); I get a error when I try to run it, "Unable to start Activity ... ". Some exception stuff in StickView
Mar 26 05:33:35 <jasta> lol
Mar 26 05:33:36 <jasta> dude ;)
Mar 26 05:33:38 <poffy> I'll try and why the exception
Mar 26 05:33:44 <poffy> find
Mar 26 05:33:49 <jasta> you need to take a step back and just learn Java first :)
Mar 26 05:34:09 <_avatar> hoopla: i think it just depends on the phone. if you watch the video here http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7260000/newsid_7267900/7267977.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&nol_storyid=7267977&bbcws=1 they mention using a trackpad instead of a touchscreen
Mar 26 05:37:35 <hoopla> thanks!
Mar 26 05:39:39 <duey>  aweomse i broke eclipse
Mar 26 05:39:46 <muthu> poffy: do me a favor.. take some time off and check the class hierarchy docs for View.. it would help you a lot
Mar 26 05:40:10 <muthu> congrats duey
Mar 26 05:40:25 <duey> ugh its locked my workspace
Mar 26 05:41:14 <poffy> muthu java.lang.Object -> android.view.View -> android.view.ViewGroup
Mar 26 05:41:18 <poffy> Is that what you mean?
Mar 26 05:42:55 <_avatar> ah, interesting. i'm running adb outside of eclipse and i no longer see unbounded memory growth. hmm
Mar 26 06:06:36 <muthu> poffy: yes, if you need View cast em as View, or if you need ViewGroup cast it as ViewGroup
Mar 26 06:09:18 <poffy> muthu, ok. I'm sorry if the answer is obvious, but why is giving me an exception error when I do ((ViewGroup)(View)sView).setAnimationCacheEnabled(false);
Mar 26 06:10:05 <muthu> because view is not a viewgroup
Mar 26 06:10:11 <poffy> ok, I understand that.
Mar 26 06:10:20 <poffy> So, I would need to create a ViewGroup
Mar 26 06:10:26 <poffy> and add the view to it?
Mar 26 06:10:35 <muthu> yeah..that's what layout does
Mar 26 06:10:43 <poffy> ok
Mar 26 06:10:53 <muthu> do it from an xml
Mar 26 06:10:57 <muthu> set your layout however you want
Mar 26 06:11:01 <poffy> eh, xml
Mar 26 06:11:10 <muthu> or you can do it from code
Mar 26 06:11:11 <poffy> I'll have to screw with that in the morning
Mar 26 06:11:17 <poffy> I did do it in code
Mar 26 06:11:18 <muthu> but follow the same semantics
Mar 26 06:11:49 <poffy> http://rafb.net/p/uHYCJy81.html
Mar 26 06:11:51 <muthu> if you need animation.. you can use ViewFlipper
Mar 26 06:11:53 <poffy> I just did that quickly
Mar 26 06:12:41 <muthu> right
Mar 26 06:12:50 <muthu> you can create a linearlayout and add all your views to it
Mar 26 06:12:50 <poffy> ok.
Mar 26 06:12:54 <poffy> yeah
Mar 26 06:13:11 <poffy> I'm just still expericing the animation not working
Mar 26 06:13:11 <poffy> heh
Mar 26 06:13:24 <poffy> I'll try and figure out ViewFlipper in the morning, I guess..
Mar 26 06:13:33 <muthu> add a viewflipper
Mar 26 06:14:07 <muthu> there's an AnimationUtils class
Mar 26 06:14:21 <poffy> ViewFlipper can store how many views?
Mar 26 06:14:30 <poffy> I thought I read in docs that it could only have two
Mar 26 06:14:48 <muthu> any number of images
Mar 26 06:14:52 <poffy> Oh ok
Mar 26 06:15:05 <muthu> only to is the viewswitcher
Mar 26 06:15:16 <muthu> flipper can load many
Mar 26 06:15:20 <poffy> ahh
Mar 26 06:16:01 <poffy> I'll figure out ViewFlipper in the morning then
Mar 26 06:16:09 <muthu> ok
Mar 26 06:16:09 <poffy> Thanks for your patience
Mar 26 06:16:25 <muthu> its all in the docs
Mar 26 06:16:32 <muthu> look at animation section
Mar 26 06:16:41 <poffy> I haven't felt like this since I started learning C when I was doing DS homebrew :D
Mar 26 06:16:50 <muthu> it happens.. np
Mar 26 06:17:03 <poffy> :)
Mar 26 06:17:09 <muthu> i only do light stuff anyways
Mar 26 06:18:19 <muthu> poffy: where you from?
Mar 26 06:18:27 <poffy> Texas
Mar 26 06:18:32 <muthu> where?
Mar 26 06:18:41 <poffy> Houston, Texas, US
Mar 26 06:18:51 <muthu> great.. i lived there long time back
Mar 26 06:18:55 <poffy> oh cool
Mar 26 06:18:57 <muthu> actually spring, texas
Mar 26 06:19:01 <poffy> ah
Mar 26 06:19:07 <poffy> I live around the Cypress area
Mar 26 06:19:12 <muthu> oh cool
Mar 26 06:19:25 <muthu> texas is great
Mar 26 06:19:32 <poffy> oh yeah
Mar 26 06:19:37 <poffy> I love it
Mar 26 06:19:42 <poffy> I want to go to college here
Mar 26 06:19:47 <jasta> texas is great?  lol, what? :)
Mar 26 06:19:54 <muthu> yo jasta
Mar 26 06:21:14 <muthu> memories are always great
Mar 26 06:21:14 <muthu> so i remember only the good stuff
Mar 26 06:21:14 <muthu> i used to work for worldcom, spring, texas
Mar 26 06:21:14 <muthu> there's something called research forest
Mar 26 06:21:15 <muthu> pretty nice place
Mar 26 06:21:27 <poffy> hm
Mar 26 06:21:36 <poffy> I haven't heard of it
Mar 26 06:21:58 <muthu> really.. its in spring
Mar 26 06:22:01 <muthu> you know spring?
Mar 26 06:22:07 <poffy> yeah
Mar 26 06:22:37 <muthu> the research forest is where all the r&d companies are present.. mostly telecom
Mar 26 06:22:45 <poffy> Oh cool
Mar 26 06:22:52 <duey> ugh
Mar 26 06:22:53 <poffy> I'll try and look that up, some time
Mar 26 06:23:04 <duey> when i click run in eclipse it doesnt run in the debugger
Mar 26 06:23:07 <duey> emulator*-*
Mar 26 06:23:18 <poffy> Anyway, I got to hit the sack
Mar 26 06:23:21 <poffy> Thanks for the help
Mar 26 06:23:25 <muthu> ok cool
Mar 26 06:24:59 <duey> does anyone else have a problem where after running your app two times from eclipse it no longer runs?
Mar 26 06:54:35 <jasta> duey: yeah, check adb logcat for a permission mismatch or something.  the uid somehow changes and you need to chown all your files
Mar 26 06:54:47 <duey> stab
Mar 26 06:54:48 <jasta> or remove the app and data files and install again
Mar 26 06:55:15 <jasta> pretty stupid but, meh, i'm sure they've already fixed it in the next SDK or whatever
Mar 26 06:55:34 <duey> its definately quiet
Mar 26 06:55:50 <duey> romanguy isn't even here!
Mar 26 06:55:55 <duey> mind you easter weekend
Mar 26 06:56:53 <jasta> i told you, they're getting ready for release i bet :)
Mar 26 06:57:05 <jasta> it's a dead giveaway, and it has happened every time right before a release :)
Mar 26 06:57:41 <duey> this is how google does it
Mar 26 06:57:43 <duey> gives everyone laptops
Mar 26 06:57:47 <duey> free food
Mar 26 06:57:51 <duey> free coffee
Mar 26 06:57:55 <duey> they never stop working
Mar 26 06:58:01 <duey> its all part of the master plan
Mar 26 07:49:35 <muthu> ok.. back from lunch
Mar 26 14:31:26 <muthu> hi, the next release date?
Mar 26 15:13:01 <jasta> muthu: have i started a rumor? :)
Mar 26 15:13:06 <jasta> i think really soon anyway :)
Mar 26 15:15:24 <muthu> i am waiting on it jasta
Mar 26 15:15:35 <jasta> well, i wouldn't wait on it.
Mar 26 15:15:53 <jasta> my only basis for speculation is that romain and morrildl have been AWOL for about a week.
Mar 26 15:16:05 <jasta> and that previously has indicated the rush before a release :)
Mar 26 15:16:09 <muthu> i guess the release will be only after 14
Mar 26 15:16:28 <jasta> i don't know that to be true.  morrildl actually suggested a while ago that they "hope" to get a release out before then
Mar 26 15:17:04 <muthu> now that people are focussed, they wouldn't disrupt
Mar 26 15:17:47 <morrildl> yeah, the window is closing pretty quickly
Mar 26 15:18:07 <morrildl> it would be totally wrong to release a major SDK update 2 weeks before the deadline :)
Mar 26 15:18:24 <muthu> there you have it
Mar 26 15:18:30 <jasta> well, fine :)
Mar 26 15:18:45 <morrildl> however, we are still looking to do an update to M5
Mar 26 15:18:56 <morrildl> We are trying to figure out what fixes we can get into it
Mar 26 15:18:57 <jasta> see :)
Mar 26 15:19:09 <jasta> please, *PLEASE*, fix the MediaPlaye r:(
Mar 26 15:19:20 <jasta> my app will be so crippled without it
Mar 26 15:19:23 <morrildl> jasta: heh
Mar 26 15:19:34 <morrildl> we think we have workarounds for most of the bigger issues
Mar 26 15:19:52 <morrildl> for example, a lot of people have had problems streaming MP3s, but that appears to be an issue with how they were authored
Mar 26 15:20:24 <morrildl> jasta: unfortunately for M5 it looks like we aren't going to be able to do the play-and-save-at-the-same-time thing
Mar 26 15:20:37 <morrildl> however, the good news is that I was told that WILL be supported in 1.0
Mar 26 15:20:38 <jasta> what about an InputStream?
Mar 26 15:21:16 <muthu> i gave up on streaming.. bundling the video for now
Mar 26 15:21:26 <muthu> works ok for the POC
Mar 26 15:21:32 <morrildl> play-while-downloading should be in the next milestone drop, as should many, many bug fixes for streaming
Mar 26 15:21:58 <jasta> sigh, you guys are gonna get a lot of streaming media player submissions that don't do anything :)
Mar 26 15:22:03 <jasta> mine included :\
Mar 26 15:22:06 <morrildl> jasta: yeah I know :(
Mar 26 15:22:17 <muthu> video view is a bummer
Mar 26 15:22:33 <muthu> it doesn't support the buffering event
Mar 26 15:23:37 <muthu> ok.. time to go home.. i'll catch up on the other side of the dinner
Mar 26 15:24:50 <morrildl> jasta: re: inputstreams, the underlying libraries aren't really built for that.  The best we can do (for 1.0) would be a PCM player that can accept bytes via an inputstream or similar
Mar 26 15:25:33 <morrildl> that might be cute for people who want to generate a square wave and play it or something, but it's probably not so hot for you, since you'd have to decode your MP3s in Dalvik
Mar 26 15:25:42 <jasta> sigh, you're killing me.
Mar 26 15:25:58 <morrildl> but, like I said, play-and-save should be in the next milestone drop
Mar 26 15:26:08 <morrildl> so at least that is coming
Mar 26 15:26:14 <morrildl> Yeah I am bummed too
Mar 26 15:26:59 <morrildl> hmm, firefox is being stupid
Mar 26 15:27:02 <morrildl> brb
Mar 26 17:37:37 <muthu_> just heard the next release is exactly 1 week away
Mar 26 17:37:40 <muthu_> great news!
Mar 26 17:37:54 <zhobbs> where'd you hear that?
Mar 26 17:38:03 <muthu_> from one of the google folks
Mar 26 17:38:48 <muthu_> packed with some crazy functionality
Mar 26 17:38:53 <muthu_> yoohooo
Mar 26 17:38:59 <mike1o> yeah!
Mar 26 17:39:18 <muthu_> there's 1 new killer feature they added
Mar 26 17:39:38 <mike1o> a rolling machine?
Mar 26 17:39:48 <muthu_> unbelievable email.. let me read it fully
Mar 26 17:39:59 <poffy> :O
Mar 26 17:46:06 <lenni_-_> if i run my activity with a method call i get a null pointer exception, but if i take the method call out it runs fine?
Mar 26 17:46:29 <lenni_-_> eclipse didn't complain about unresolved calls.
Mar 26 17:46:50 <zhobbs> what do you mean?
Mar 26 17:46:54 <Dan_U> What do you mean run your activity with a method call?
Mar 26 17:47:05 <mike1o> muthu_, can we read it too? :)
Mar 26 17:47:18 <muthu_> oh man.. i can't believe it
Mar 26 17:47:30 <muthu_> ok.. here it is
Mar 26 17:47:32 <zhobbs> muthu_: yeah, share :)
Mar 26 17:47:33 <lenni_-_> soory, i meant i call a certain method in my onCreate
Mar 26 17:47:44 <mike1o> if it's too long
Mar 26 17:47:49 <mike1o> paste it somewhere
Mar 26 17:47:49 <muthu_> flash IS supported!!!!!!!
Mar 26 17:48:01 <muthu_> is this real?
Mar 26 17:48:02 <Dan_U> lenni_-_: you probably are trying to access something that is null in your method
Mar 26 17:48:03 <mike1o> muthu_, in the browser?
Mar 26 17:48:21 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: we need more info...
Mar 26 17:48:22 <muthu_> it says supported.. but not how
Mar 26 17:48:53 <lenni_-_> is a nopaste okay?
Mar 26 17:48:56 <lenni_-_> hang on
Mar 26 17:49:02 <zhobbs> ok
Mar 26 17:49:32 <muthu_> i can't wait now.. the game guys are going to be really excited
Mar 26 17:49:57 * zhobbs is skeptical
Mar 26 17:50:11 <lenni_-_> this it it: http://pastebin.com/m23730517
Mar 26 17:50:19 <muthu_> i would not believe it myself, but this is from someone i know very well
Mar 26 17:51:07 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: where does the NPE happen?
Mar 26 17:51:34 <muthu_> android wants to knock out RIM and iphone straight away
Mar 26 17:51:37 <lenni_-_> this is the 2nd activity in my package. it happens when i start it
Mar 26 17:51:50 <zhobbs> do you know what line?
Mar 26 17:52:46 <muthu_> romainguy: can you confirm this please?
Mar 26 17:52:47 <poffy> muthu_: I'm anxious to read it now that you mentioned games
Mar 26 17:52:57 <lenni_-_> i only have the debug info that android gives and that doesn't give me a line
Mar 26 17:53:17 <lenni_-_> i'll try to get it from eclipse debug
Mar 26 17:53:20 <zhobbs> muthu_: romain's not in here
Mar 26 17:53:24 <muthu_> poffy: me too
Mar 26 17:53:55 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: in the breakpoint view there is a little "J!", click that and add NullPointerException and it will automatically break for NPE's
Mar 26 17:54:01 <muthu_> zhobbs: i'm waiting for him now o_0
Mar 26 17:54:51 <Dan_U> lenni_-_: I think it's when you do is.close() in the finally
Mar 26 17:55:01 <Dan_U> your is is probably null
Mar 26 17:55:01 <poffy> muthu_: If they come out with tons of new features, won't that give developers who are entering the compo a small amount of time to update to the current release and than make nifty additions?
Mar 26 17:55:29 <lenni_-_> so. i'll have to catch it, right?
Mar 26 17:55:38 <Dan_U> no
Mar 26 17:55:41 <Dan_U> check if it's null
Mar 26 17:55:47 <muthu_> i really don't understand why they are doing a release in the first place
Mar 26 17:55:57 <zhobbs> I don't think they will
Mar 26 17:56:07 <zhobbs> unless not a lot really changes
Mar 26 17:56:13 <zhobbs> just bug fixes or something
Mar 26 17:57:17 <Dan_U> does anyone know if the adc submit page only sends you one email if you submit multiple projects?
Mar 26 17:57:28 <Dan_U> Because I only got one email for the first project
Mar 26 17:57:54 <lenni_-_> okay, thanks guys, is really was null
Mar 26 19:14:10 <lenni_-_> is there a maximum number of characters for textviews?
Mar 26 19:15:35 <lenni_-_> i mean a maximum number of characters it can display.
Mar 26 19:16:06 <mihoshi> What us the URL of files in res/raw directory?
Mar 26 19:24:36 <zhobbs> mihoshi: you can get their id's via R.raw, but can't directly refer to them with a Uri
Mar 26 19:25:51 <mihoshi> Thanks. But then how can I make a files in project, that I'll be able to read by URL?
Mar 26 19:26:19 <B0jangles> why do you want to access them by URL?
Mar 26 19:27:26 <mihoshi> Because there will be also another files, made in runtime, that I will read in same manner.
Mar 26 19:28:55 <mihoshi> Downloaded from net or created by user...
Mar 26 19:30:07 <mihoshi> Of cause, I can read this files by id and save by URL, or inject it into android some other counterintuitive way but this seems lame...
Mar 26 19:33:24 <mihoshi> So, no way?
Mar 26 19:33:46 * B0jangles shrugs
Mar 26 19:34:24 <B0jangles> Look Here:
Mar 26 19:34:24 <B0jangles> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/74cc21c9e613f608/57865aac5be52635?lnk=gst&q=uri#57865aac5be52635
Mar 26 19:34:36 <B0jangles> "         Access via Uri to an application resource      "
Mar 26 19:37:28 <mihoshi> Yes, I see...
Mar 26 19:38:31 <mihoshi> Trying to make it working.
Mar 26 19:39:18 <mihoshi> Another catch is that I'm supposed to have references to this files in my XML files and databases O_o
Mar 26 19:52:38 <tauren> I just installed android and the eclipse plugin.  Following the Hello, Android tutorial.  The emulator starts up, says "ANDROID", then I get a red bar going back and forth for a while.  Then an error "Application Not Responding".  I've followed the Hello instructions to the letter.  What am I doing wrong?
Mar 26 19:53:09 <tauren> this is my very first time using the platform ever, so I'm sure i'm doing something silly.
Mar 26 19:54:07 <tauren> does this channel pertain to google android, or something else?
Mar 26 19:55:04 <benley> yep
Mar 26 19:55:15 <tauren> ok, cool.
Mar 26 19:55:23 <tauren> any ideas what i'm doing wrong?
Mar 26 19:58:37 <zhobbs> tauren: what application is not responding?
Mar 26 19:58:47 <zhobbs> HelloAndroid or Home, etc?
Mar 26 19:58:58 <tauren> its a google app, not mine
Mar 26 19:59:03 <tauren> let me restart it.
Mar 26 20:01:09 <tauren> it seems to take about 1 - 2 minutes to start the emulator.  Is that normal?  Do I have to start it every time I make a change in my app and want to test?  Or can eclipse deploy to a running emulator?
Mar 26 20:02:15 <B0jangles> yes no no
Mar 26 20:02:19 <B0jangles> oops
Mar 26 20:02:21 <B0jangles> yes no yes
Mar 26 20:02:31 <tauren> ok, good to know...
Mar 26 20:02:57 <tauren> i got the home screen up, but HelloAndroid isn't starting
Mar 26 20:03:04 <B0jangles> Send it again
Mar 26 20:03:12 <B0jangles> sometimes it gets lost while the emulator is starting
Mar 26 20:03:37 <tauren> when I Run in eclipse, it always starts a new copy of the emulator
Mar 26 20:03:46 <tauren> i now have two running.
Mar 26 20:03:51 <B0jangles> yeah, sometimes it does that
Mar 26 20:04:00 <B0jangles> close the old one
Mar 26 20:04:07 <B0jangles> and hope the new one works ;-)
Mar 26 20:04:07 <tauren> ok
Mar 26 20:04:29 <B0jangles> it doesn't always do that, but yeah, sometimes Eclipse has a hard time finding the emulator
Mar 26 20:04:45 <B0jangles> and it keeps opening new ones
Mar 26 20:05:03 <tauren> is there something you do when that happens?  restart eclipse?
Mar 26 20:05:14 <B0jangles> get another cup of coffee
Mar 26 20:05:15 <tauren> or just restart the app until it works?
Mar 26 20:05:22 <tauren> ;)
Mar 26 20:05:22 <B0jangles> I just restart the app until it works
Mar 26 20:05:28 <B0jangles> it'll eventually work
Mar 26 20:05:34 <B0jangles> and then it'll probably keep working
Mar 26 20:05:40 <tauren> ok, this time eclipse log shows more promising output
Mar 26 20:05:50 <tauren> Yes, it worked this time!
Mar 26 20:06:10 <tauren> The tutorial lead me to think it would JUST WORK.
Mar 26 20:06:20 <B0jangles> sometimes it does ;-)
Mar 26 20:06:35 <B0jangles> sometimes it doesn't...
Mar 26 20:06:35 <tauren> They shuold add something to the faq or somewhere about the possible issues like this.
Mar 26 20:06:47 <B0jangles> aye
Mar 26 20:07:05 <tauren> So, to make changes to my app, I just leave the emulator running, and hit Run or Debug again?
Mar 26 20:07:10 <B0jangles> yeah
Mar 26 20:07:14 <tauren> do i have to exit the running app?
Mar 26 20:07:16 <B0jangles> no
Mar 26 20:07:27 <tauren> so it will start multiple copies of my app at any time?
Mar 26 20:07:43 <B0jangles> I think Android kills the old ones in the background
Mar 26 20:07:52 <tauren> ok
Mar 26 20:08:16 <tauren> just did it and i saw the home screen again for a second.  then the app started again.  so i think you are probably right.
Mar 26 20:08:32 <tauren> is there some sort of task list in android, so i can see what is running?
Mar 26 20:08:59 <B0jangles> I forget...DDMS might tell you
Mar 26 20:09:14 * B0jangles doesn't have Eclipse open at the moment
Mar 26 20:09:21 <tauren> ok, np
Mar 26 20:09:25 <tauren> i appreciate your help.
Mar 26 20:09:28 <B0jangles> np
Mar 26 20:10:03 <tauren> at least i'm going now.  i had tried it like 4 times and it never once ran for me.
Mar 26 20:10:43 <B0jangles> yeah, it can be pretty annoying
Mar 26 20:11:11 <tauren> now i have a better idea of what to expect...
Mar 26 20:54:15 <lenni_-_> i only have 500mb of ram on a macbook and android emulator + eclipse is excruciatingly slow. what is your experience? will upgrading to 1gb make a noticable difference or will i need 2gb?
Mar 26 21:00:29 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: I have 2 gig and it's not all that fast :)
Mar 26 21:04:58 <jasta> the android emulator runs a bit slow on my computer actually.
Mar 26 21:05:01 <jasta> and mine is very powerful
Mar 26 21:05:10 <jasta> it runs faster on my work computer, which i would not generally say is a faster machine.
Mar 26 21:05:15 <jasta> so who knows ;)
Mar 26 21:07:38 <lenni_-_> at least i'm not the only one
Mar 26 21:11:16 <zhobbs> woohoo...just got a job
Mar 26 21:11:47 <zhobbs> doing control systems for a local engineering firm...no more web development!
Mar 26 21:12:29 <zhobbs> now it just sucks that I have to work 8-5
Mar 26 21:12:31 <jasta> congratulations
Mar 26 21:12:38 <jasta> web development is stupid
Mar 26 21:12:45 <zhobbs> yeah, it sucks
Mar 26 21:13:16 <lenni_-_> i'm curious, being a student, why web development sucks
Mar 26 21:13:16 <zhobbs> but it paid for college
Mar 26 21:13:56 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: I don't like it because you spend way too much time on UI
Mar 26 21:14:41 <zhobbs> lenni_-_: and most of the programmers you work with are not very skilled (at least in my experience)
Mar 26 21:14:56 <zhobbs> I'm sure there are some really good ones out there...just not were I've worked
Mar 26 21:15:04 <lenni_-_> you mean, they are webdesigners really?
Mar 26 21:16:47 <zhobbs> a lot of the people I work with just keep writing code until it works...not a lot of thought put in (especially in ASP land)
Mar 26 21:17:45 <f00f-> hack 'n slash
Mar 26 21:17:48 <f00f-> tried and true method :P
Mar 26 21:18:02 <lenni_-_> i have to admit, that is the way i do things too. but I'm hoping to change that with starting CompSci in the summer.
Mar 26 21:18:15 <f00f-> languages that intermix layout and business logic suck
Mar 26 21:18:21 <f00f-> or encourage it, such as ASP and PHP
Mar 26 21:18:40 <f00f-> i still use PHP, but correctly
Mar 26 21:19:22 <lenni_-_> i have just toyed with django (python based)and i think it's really neat
Mar 26 21:19:59 <f00f-> i don't know, all these frameworks are just overhyped
Mar 26 21:20:14 <f00f-> i just churn out XML in my code
Mar 26 21:20:22 <f00f-> and let XSLT take care of the rest
Mar 26 21:20:36 <f00f-> designers can muck with the XSL and CSS
Mar 26 21:24:34 <morrildl> f00f-: oh dear god
Mar 26 21:24:42 * morrildl worked on a system like that
Mar 26 21:24:47 <morrildl> 50,000 line XSLT file
Mar 26 21:24:51 <morrildl> Never again.
Mar 26 21:25:00 <f00f-> morrildl: that's just bad design
Mar 26 21:25:02 <morrildl> XSLT works well in concept, but it's hard to customize
Mar 26 21:25:10 <f00f-> you have to split it up into modules
Mar 26 21:25:12 <morrildl> f00f-: I grant you that, the design predated me :)
Mar 26 21:25:15 <f00f-> take advantage of functions, etc.
Mar 26 21:25:16 <morrildl> actually that didn't work
Mar 26 21:25:18 <f00f-> ah okay
Mar 26 21:25:25 <morrildl> libxslt's performance was too low
Mar 26 21:25:50 <f00f-> depends on the site, too
Mar 26 21:25:52 <morrildl> anyway, django is not bad
Mar 26 21:26:02 <morrildl> I like django b/c it's not trying to be a revolutionary thing
Mar 26 21:26:26 <morrildl> For example, Rails sometimes make me think of "Extreme Programming" and similar fads
Mar 26 21:26:42 * morrildl ducks the XP afficionados on the channel.........
Mar 26 21:27:45 <jasta> i don't like any web frameworks, because web development is terrible :)
Mar 26 21:27:53 <jasta> but, i have had extensive experience with HTML::Mason
Mar 26 21:28:04 <jasta> i didn't like it, but i didn't hate it.
Mar 26 21:29:23 <f00f-> i love mason
Mar 26 21:29:34 <f00f-> but absence of logic/presentation sucked
Mar 26 21:30:13 <f00f-> actually i looked at django before, and just the fact that they quite tim berner lee's "cool uri's don't change" doc make me want to try it out
Mar 26 21:30:36 <f00f-> *quote
Mar 26 21:30:39 <f00f-> rather *link to
Mar 26 21:30:39 <f00f-> :)
Mar 26 21:33:05 <ksiomelo`> hi there
Mar 26 21:33:16 <ksiomelo`> I have a dumb question..
Mar 26 21:33:33 <ksiomelo`> I want to show a imageview in a new activity
Mar 26 21:33:40 <ksiomelo`> startActivity(new Intent(this,ImageViewActivity.class));
Mar 26 21:34:06 <ksiomelo`> but I have to pass the image data (byte []) to it
Mar 26 21:34:33 <f00f-> pointer anyone? :P
Mar 26 21:35:02 <jasta> ksiomelo`: Bitmaps are serializable, so construct one first.
Mar 26 21:35:09 <jasta> or rather, they are parcelable.
Mar 26 21:35:22 <ksiomelo`> ohh
Mar 26 21:35:26 <ksiomelo`> I see
Mar 26 21:36:55 <ksiomelo`> thanks =)
Mar 26 21:39:37 <Dan_U> morrildl: If we submit multiple applications to the adc, are we only supposed to get a confirmation e-mail for the first one?
Mar 26 21:42:45 <morrildl> Dan_U: Hmm, I assume that's what happened to you? :)
Mar 26 21:42:49 <morrildl> let me check into it
Mar 26 21:42:54 <Dan_U> yep, 5 apps, 1 email
Mar 26 21:43:03 <Dan_U> and other people have asked in the groups
Mar 26 21:43:20 <Dan_U> so it's not just me
Mar 26 21:46:39 <morrildl> Dan_U: yeah, looks like that was the way it was configured
Mar 26 21:46:51 <morrildl> David says he changed the option to send one response per submission now
Mar 26 21:48:18 <Dan_U> ok, so is there any way I can verify the ones I already submitted are actually there?
Mar 26 21:48:30 <morrildl> Dan_U: I will check manually
Mar 26 21:48:37 <Dan_U> ok, thank you
Mar 26 21:48:41 <morrildl> What email address did you submit under? (feel free to private msg me)
Mar 26 21:50:17 <Dan_U> dan.ulery@gmail.com
Mar 26 22:16:38 <jjt001> ayo to all
Mar 26 22:16:43 <jjt001> quick question
Mar 26 22:17:00 <jjt001> i put a ListView node within a relative layout
Mar 26 22:17:03 <jjt001> is this legal?
Mar 26 22:17:34 <jjt001> i'm got some NP exceptions after adding the ListView into my app
Mar 26 22:17:51 <jjt001> anyone here?
Mar 26 22:17:55 <jjt001> zhobbs?
Mar 26 22:18:25 <chomchom> heh zhobbs, your being called on by name now!
Mar 26 22:18:41 <jjt001> chomchom: i call you by name to assist me
Mar 26 22:18:59 <chomchom> *gark*
Mar 26 22:19:16 <jjt001> chomchom: want me to post logcat?
Mar 26 22:19:28 <jjt001> chomchom: i will reward you greatly for this
Mar 26 22:19:55 <chomchom> no I'm sorry I can't help you I have limited experience with listview
Mar 26 22:20:18 <jjt001> chomchom: fine
Mar 26 22:20:24 <chomchom> I've just used the BaseAdapters
Mar 26 22:20:27 <jjt001> chomchom: you shall receive no reward
Mar 26 22:20:34 <jjt001> zhobbs?
Mar 26 22:20:47 <jjt001> anyone?
Mar 26 22:21:11 <jjt001> brothers>>>><<<<<>><>><>><>><>>?
Mar 26 22:21:11 * chomchom shirks into the background.
Mar 26 22:21:22 <Dan_U> jjt001: the problem sounds vaguely familiar. Have you searched google groups?
Mar 26 22:21:38 <jjt001> nope
Mar 26 22:21:42 <jjt001> i'll do that now
Mar 26 22:22:32 <jjt001> beautiful
Mar 26 22:22:33 <jjt001> thanks dan
Mar 26 22:22:49 <Dan_U> you're welcome
Mar 26 22:23:58 <Kuja> poffy: around?
Mar 26 22:27:26 <jjt001> Dan_U: wait
Mar 26 22:27:36 <jjt001> Dan_U: the problem wasn't resolved
Mar 26 22:28:23 <jjt001> Dan_U: shall i post my layout file on pastebin?
Mar 26 22:30:48 <jjt001> http://pastebin.com/m669b0210
Mar 26 22:31:20 <jjt001> anyone?
Mar 26 23:08:35 <jasta> Dan_U: what 5 apps did you submit?
Mar 26 23:09:20 <chomchom> Yeah can we get some hints of names or anything to whet our pallets?
Mar 26 23:10:27 <Dan_U> lol
Mar 26 23:10:35 <Dan_U> my apps aren't that interesting
Mar 26 23:10:50 <chomchom> come on man they are interesting to us guys developing for two months!
Mar 26 23:11:00 <Dan_U> and I'd say more of a proof of concept than a production app
Mar 26 23:11:36 <chomchom> yeah, we're all in that zone (speaks for self)
Mar 26 23:11:41 <Dan_U> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/athena
Mar 26 23:11:51 <Dan_U> that is the link to the one I spent the most time on. It has links to the others
Mar 26 23:12:04 <chomchom> sweet!
Mar 26 23:12:10 <Dan_U> There's screenshots in the help page for a few of them
Mar 26 23:12:20 <Dan_U> and all of them have descriptions in the help page
Mar 26 23:13:07 <Dan_U> and they are not tested extensively either. Don't be surprised to see bugs
Mar 26 23:13:12 <Dan_U> I am just one person you know :-)
Mar 26 23:14:29 <jerkface03> mobile social networking is pretty much dominated by one company
Mar 26 23:14:42 <Dan_U> which one would that be?
Mar 26 23:14:45 <jerkface03> airg
Mar 26 23:15:20 <Dan_U> interesting. I've never heard of them though
Mar 26 23:15:29 <Dan_U> but that's probably because I'm not a heavy mobile phone user
Mar 26 23:15:43 <jerkface03> i worked there for a while
Mar 26 23:15:45 <jerkface03> it was alright
Mar 26 23:16:09 <chomchom> this is Excellent stuff Dan_U, well done
Mar 26 23:16:16 <Dan_U> thanks
Mar 26 23:16:20 <Dan_U> I doubt I'll win anything
Mar 26 23:16:27 <Dan_U> but I learned quite a bit by writing them
Mar 26 23:18:55 <jasta> sorry i had to do work for a second :)
Mar 26 23:18:57 <jasta> *reading*
Mar 26 23:21:15 <ksiomelo`> hey guys..
Mar 26 23:21:16 <ksiomelo`> is there a way to setup the layout of the option menu?
Mar 26 23:21:30 <chomchom> yeah man athena is well sweet
Mar 26 23:21:38 <ksiomelo`> I would like to make a linear vertical menu, not that large buttons
Mar 26 23:21:44 <Dan_U> chomchom: thanks
Mar 26 23:21:49 <Dan_U> I spent the most time on that one
Mar 26 23:22:03 <chomchom> I like your flair approach to the UI
Mar 26 23:22:09 <chomchom> distinctive
Mar 26 23:22:16 <Dan_U> That was about the third UI I came up with
Mar 26 23:22:36 <chomchom> the UI is a bit confusing mind you but of course this is a prototype
Mar 26 23:22:38 <Dan_U> I thought the earlier ones I did looked too primitive
Mar 26 23:22:50 <Dan_U> yeah, I'm sure I could do a bit better with it
Mar 26 23:23:40 <Dan_U> I know of some areas that are not very good, but I couldn't visualize a better way at the time
Mar 26 23:30:53 <Dan_U> chomchom: I see you created an account :-) Has anything broken yet?
Mar 26 23:31:22 <chomchom> nope, I'm just explaining it to my lady
Mar 26 23:31:46 <chomchom> the password field revealed the last character when I was signing up
Mar 26 23:31:54 <jasta> i'm really hoping to produce a set of screenshots or maybe even a walk through video fro my project some time when it gets much closer to the deadline...
Mar 26 23:32:13 <Dan_U> hmm, the signup page is just a password text field
Mar 26 23:32:24 <Dan_U> so it's whatever your browser does I suppose
Mar 26 23:32:39 <Dan_U> are you sure it was the sign up or was it the login on the client?
Mar 26 23:33:33 <Dan_U> because the password edittext does that in Android
Mar 26 23:37:34 <chomchom> Sorry I meant the sign in on the phone emu
Mar 26 23:37:49 <Dan_U> ok, then that's expected
Mar 26 23:37:55 <Dan_U> it confused me too when I saw it do that
Mar 26 23:38:00 <chomchom> tried to download the taxi one and got a 404
Mar 26 23:38:06 <Dan_U> but then I think I came into the chatroom here and asked about it
Mar 26 23:38:13 <Dan_U> ok, I'll look at taht
Mar 26 23:38:21 <Dan_U> I thought I verified them all, but maybe I didn't
Mar 26 23:38:37 <chomchom> 404 for traveloid
Mar 26 23:38:47 <chomchom> and datelocate
Mar 26 23:38:56 <Dan_U> hmm
Mar 26 23:38:57 <Dan_U> works fine for me
Mar 26 23:39:26 <chomchom> they direct me to http://athena.dynalias.com:8180/athena/
Mar 26 23:39:31 <Dan_U> wow
Mar 26 23:39:41 <Dan_U> I must have something really screwed up
Mar 26 23:40:53 <Dan_U> Was that when you tried to download the clients?
Mar 26 23:41:11 <chomchom> yeah
Mar 26 23:41:54 <Dan_U> I can't seem to reproduce it. I recognize the url. It's from a long time ago and doesn't even exist in my source any more
Mar 26 23:42:15 <Dan_U> My hosting provider moved their servers. I wonder if they have some kind of load balancer and are balancing between a server with the updated code and one without
Mar 26 23:42:24 <ksiomelo`> Dan_U: really amazing apps, congrats
Mar 26 23:42:29 <Dan_U> thanks
Mar 26 23:42:46 <ksiomelo`> Dan_U: are you using web services?
Mar 26 23:43:13 <lenni_-_> i have a list of elements i would like to display with bullet points. would edit the xml element a text view or can I use html-is tags like <li>?
Mar 26 23:44:24 <Dan_U> ksiomelo`: Kinda/sorta :-)
Mar 26 23:44:55 <Dan_U> I didn't try to jump into doing web services in a proper way because it looked like there was poor support for them.
Mar 26 23:45:22 <Dan_U> and because I'm lazy
Mar 26 23:46:35 <ksiomelo`> Dan_U: yes, indeed. I am using an xml-rpc version for android
Mar 26 23:47:39 <Dan_U> well, I guess regardless of whether the download links are incorrect, I did upload the apk files on the submission page
Mar 26 23:47:49 <Dan_U> But, that means only the judges can get access to them
Mar 26 23:49:52 <Dan_U> chomchom: can you tell me what page you went to that had a link to athena.dynalias?
Mar 26 23:50:20 <chomchom> sure I'll go through them
Mar 26 23:50:24 <chomchom> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/taxi/help.php
Mar 26 23:50:44 <chomchom> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/findroid/help.php
Mar 26 23:51:02 <chomchom> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/traveloid/help.php
Mar 26 23:51:18 <chomchom> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/datelocate/help.php
Mar 26 23:52:11 <Dan_U> So the dynalias link is when you click the Downloads button in the header?
Mar 26 23:53:40 <Dan_U> oh, I see
Mar 26 23:54:20 <Dan_U> chomchom: Thanks for finding that
Mar 27 00:15:52 <ksiomelo`> does anyone know if it is possible to change the options menu layout?
Mar 27 00:16:59 <ksiomelo`> I want a vertical menu, not that hz menu with large buttons (it is hiding some functions of my app when appears)
Mar 27 00:17:08 <ksiomelo`> :P
Mar 27 00:17:18 <chomchom> yeah that happens to me too
Mar 27 00:18:09 <ksiomelo`> do you have any work around?
Mar 27 00:19:09 <chomchom> nope sorry, just sympathising, not really worrying about it right now
Mar 27 00:19:27 <chomchom> you could try in the mean time specifying a different order
Mar 27 00:27:36 <chomchom> Dan_U: your apps look really great. I wish I was in the position to release mine for some user stress testing, but I can't until I tie the screens together under the new UI. If you choose to make any amendments can you make a resubmission?
Mar 27 00:31:25 <chomchom> Dan_U: also, when I tried to make an account with the same username on all 5 of the sites they complained that there was already an account under my name
Mar 27 00:31:34 <chomchom> which I'm guessing is mine
Mar 27 00:31:54 * Kuja attacks poffy
Mar 27 00:34:11 <chomchom> Dan_U: you may want to check the error logs for finddroid and traveloid as I got errors creating accounts for both of them
Mar 27 00:34:34 <chomchom> may be connected to me incrementing my username by one for each site
Mar 27 00:47:32 <poffy> Kraln, pm doesn't work since I haven't registered this nick
Mar 27 01:02:37 <ksiomelo`> chomchom: he is using the same user table for all app, I saw it somewhere I could'n find now
Mar 27 01:02:44 <ksiomelo`> *apps
Mar 27 01:02:58 <chomchom> yeah I guessed as much
Mar 27 01:03:46 <jasta> heading home...
Mar 27 01:03:50 <ksiomelo`> I am working on 2 apps, but they are very 'delayed' since I begun just a month ago
Mar 27 01:03:54 <ksiomelo`> =(
Mar 27 01:04:26 <ksiomelo`> how many apps are you planning to submit?
Mar 27 01:04:46 <chomchom> me? I'm working on just one :)
Mar 27 01:07:05 <tauren> i'm just starting with android as of today.
Mar 27 01:07:27 <tauren> i'm assuming there is no possible way to get up to speed in time to submit something.
Mar 27 01:07:40 <tauren> how long did it take you guys to get up to speed to actually be productive?
Mar 27 01:07:49 <chomchom> theres no telling what you could do
Mar 27 01:08:01 <ksiomelo`> hahaha I am still not productive
Mar 27 01:08:07 <tauren> well, i program java for a living, so i'm comfortable with that
Mar 27 01:08:42 <ksiomelo`> tauren: depending on your application, it could take less time
Mar 27 01:08:47 <chomchom> Its taken me a while but everyone has their strengths, I reckon you could definitely get an app together in a month
Mar 27 01:08:52 <tauren> but i do mostly web apps.  although i do use component based systems, so i'm familiar with the concepts used by android
Mar 27 01:08:54 <ksiomelo`> what are you planning to do, more or less?
Mar 27 01:09:18 <chomchom> I'm a java programmer as well and  found it to be a very easy platform
Mar 27 01:09:25 <tauren> i'm toying with some ideas, trying to figure out which would make the most sense time-wise.
Mar 27 01:09:49 <tauren> dealing with location-awareness mostly.
Mar 27 01:09:54 <chomchom> Strip it down to the most basic thing and then make it really stand out at that thing
Mar 27 01:10:11 <ksiomelo`> hmm I can tell you that client-server communication can be a headache..
Mar 27 01:10:17 <tauren> what kinds of apps are others doing?  Has anyone shared their ideas?
Mar 27 01:10:26 <tauren> I saw the athena site a while ago.
Mar 27 01:10:38 <chomchom> There are a lot of location based social networking apps
Mar 27 01:10:45 <ksiomelo`> I am doing a location based social network for media distribution
Mar 27 01:10:48 <ksiomelo`> indeed
Mar 27 01:10:52 <tauren> mine would not be social networking persay.
Mar 27 01:10:54 <ksiomelo`> hehe
Mar 27 01:10:59 <tauren> per-say?  is that a word?
Mar 27 01:11:07 <chomchom> If you could think of something that isn't to do with social networking that might be a novelty
Mar 27 01:11:27 <tauren> ok
Mar 27 01:11:28 <ksiomelo`> chomchom: hahaha agreed
Mar 27 01:11:46 <tauren> so most everything you've heard of so far is dealing with social aspects?
Mar 27 01:11:58 <ksiomelo`> yep..
Mar 27 01:12:00 <chomchom> yes very much so
Mar 27 01:12:40 <tauren> i saw some stuff about games too.  but i'm not interested in that path at this time.
Mar 27 01:12:55 <chomchom> oh yeah there is a really exciting game coming out
Mar 27 01:12:58 <tauren> most of my concepts definitely involve client-server stuff.
Mar 27 01:13:17 <ksiomelo`> there's a cool app database at http://www.helloandroid.com/apps?sort=desc&order=Rating
Mar 27 01:13:19 <tauren> ksiomelo`:  so client-server stuff is difficult?
Mar 27 01:13:21 <chomchom> I think that is where the real power of these apps lie yes
Mar 27 01:13:46 <tauren> sweet.  thanks for the link!
Mar 27 01:13:52 <ksiomelo`> tauren: it depends on the kind of information you're dealing
Mar 27 01:14:08 <tauren> what about streaming video to a server?  anyone working with that?
Mar 27 01:14:19 <ksiomelo`> in my case I had to use objects streaming, video streaming etc
Mar 27 01:14:58 <ksiomelo`> tauren: do you mean, files? or real time video?
Mar 27 01:15:20 <tauren> ksiomelo`:  real time video would be best, but I suppose files might work.
Mar 27 01:16:22 <ksiomelo`> this is my intention too, there's a guy who is implementing RTSP for android, and it's definitely not easy
Mar 27 01:16:23 <tauren> also, does anyone know if the android platform has the horsepower to do speech recognition?
Mar 27 01:17:02 <tauren> ksiomelo`:  where do i find out more about what this guy is doing?
Mar 27 01:17:27 <tauren> http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/f9535ee9df9c6be6/73a4a8d5e9135ee6?lnk=raot
Mar 27 01:17:32 <tauren> is that what you are referring to?
Mar 27 01:17:43 <ksiomelo`> hmm.. I really dont know what would be the device specs., but for the challenge, running on a computer is fine
Mar 27 01:17:57 <tauren> ok, good to know.
Mar 27 01:18:19 <tauren> my other though is to stream audio to a web service, to the speech recognition there, and send back results.
Mar 27 01:18:28 <tauren> s/though/thought/
Mar 27 01:18:29 <infobot> tauren meant: my other thought is to stream audio to a web service, to the speech recognition there, and send back results.
Mar 27 01:20:10 <ksiomelo`> tauren: you should try send a file first, rather than trying the real time streaming
Mar 27 01:20:26 <tauren> yes, of course! ;)
Mar 27 01:22:03 <ksiomelo`> the guy implementing rtsp for android is from my group, we will upload de code to the community as soon as we finish!
Mar 27 01:22:20 <tauren> ahh, that's cool.
Mar 27 01:22:41 <tauren> i look forward to seeing what your group has done.  good luck!
Mar 27 01:22:49 <ksiomelo`> but I am not sure if it will be fine until the challenge deadline
Mar 27 01:22:58 <ksiomelo`> thanks :)
Mar 27 01:24:02 <tauren> ksiomelo`:  so are the client-server headaches you refer to mostly when dealing with larger objects?
Mar 27 01:24:21 <tauren> or is any client-server communication a headache?
Mar 27 01:25:56 <ksiomelo`> yes, larger objects takes too much processing time
Mar 27 01:26:06 <ksiomelo`> i am using the xml-rpc for android
Mar 27 01:26:16 <ksiomelo`> someone in the group has posted
Mar 27 01:26:38 <ksiomelo`> it works fine
Mar 27 01:26:54 <tauren> ok, good to know.
Mar 27 01:27:15 <ksiomelo`> but passing just a small image through it takes much more time than the normal
Mar 27 01:27:24 <tauren> One more thing.  If I really want to jumpstart into this fast, what are the resources I should look at most?
Mar 27 01:27:28 <tauren> the android forums?
Mar 27 01:27:54 <tauren> the google android site obviously, but are there other websites?
Mar 27 01:27:56 <chomchom> get used to searching the groups and anddev.org
Mar 27 01:28:09 <tauren> anddev.org...  ok, didn't know about that one.  thanks!
Mar 27 01:28:17 <ksiomelo`> yes, definitely
Mar 27 01:28:18 <f00f-> RTSP is easy; it's RTP that's the tough one :P
Mar 27 01:29:49 * ksiomelo` dont know what does "tough" mean.. looking in a english-portuguese dictionary..
Mar 27 01:29:57 <ksiomelo`> ehehe
Mar 27 01:30:06 <f00f-> difficult to do UDP
Mar 27 01:30:07 <f00f-> demuxing
Mar 27 01:30:09 <f00f-> packetization
Mar 27 01:30:09 <f00f-> etc
Mar 27 01:30:29 <ksiomelo`> oh yes
Mar 27 01:30:32 <ksiomelo`> right
Mar 27 01:31:28 <tauren> thanks guys, you've been very helpful.
Mar 27 01:31:42 <tauren> i'm encouraged to jump in and see what i can accomplish by the 14th
Mar 27 01:31:48 <f00f-> i'm doing LBS
Mar 27 01:31:57 <chomchom> go! go! go!
Mar 27 01:31:58 <tauren> of course, my taxes might not get done on time if I do that!
Mar 27 01:32:00 <f00f-> i was thinking of making an iPhone-like SMS app
Mar 27 01:32:04 <chomchom> make something interesting
Mar 27 01:32:19 <chomchom> taxes shmaxes
Mar 27 01:32:20 <f00f-> but i need to finish my LBS one first
Mar 27 01:33:15 <tauren> i have many ideas... just have to decide which one to concentrate on.
Mar 27 01:33:22 <tauren> with so little time.
Mar 27 01:36:54 <f00f-> pick the most unique novel idea.
Mar 27 01:37:12 <tauren> oh yeah, one more question...  so there is no bluetooth support yet, right?
Mar 27 01:37:25 <f00f-> there is
Mar 27 01:37:26 <f00f-> org.bluez.*
Mar 27 01:37:34 <f00f-> havent tried myself
Mar 27 01:38:02 <tauren> ok.  i'll look into that.  does that mean you could use an actual bluetooth device with the emulator?
Mar 27 01:38:08 <tauren> or would it just be emulating a device?
Mar 27 01:38:27 <chomchom> pick the idea you can best implement in the time. A unique novel idea is otherwise known as a fad without a great implementation. Rather make something useful.
Mar 27 01:38:49 <tauren> chomchom:  good point
Mar 27 01:39:15 <tauren> is there a text-to-speech implementation that you are aware of?  can the emulator product sound?
Mar 27 01:39:24 <tauren> s/product/produce/
Mar 27 01:39:24 <infobot> tauren meant: is there a text-to-speech implementation that you are aware of?  can the emulator produce sound?
Mar 27 01:40:59 <f00f-> no TTS
Mar 27 01:41:04 <f00f-> check some open-source one
Mar 27 01:41:09 <f00f-> like festival
Mar 27 01:41:17 <f00f-> but java-only is a limitation in performance
Mar 27 01:41:35 <f00f-> tauren: i bet you can use a bluetooth socket on the host
Mar 27 01:41:45 <f00f-> as in a tty proxy or similar
Mar 27 01:41:46 <f00f-> interface
Mar 27 01:41:53 <tauren> f00f-  that would be cool if i could
Mar 27 01:43:19 <f00f-> tauren: http://freetts.sourceforge.net/
Mar 27 01:43:45 <tauren> f00f-:  cool, thanks.
Mar 27 01:44:25 <tauren> can the emulator produce sound?
Mar 27 01:44:33 <tauren> Like playing an audio file?
Mar 27 01:44:43 <zhobbs> tauren: yeah
Mar 27 01:44:46 <f00f-> yes
Mar 27 01:44:59 <tauren> ok, good.  i asumed it could.
Mar 27 01:45:13 <tauren> ok, enough talk.  I'll go start messing with it all then.
Mar 27 01:45:26 <tauren> thanks for all your help!
Mar 27 01:47:11 <f00f-> aight bro
Mar 27 01:47:19 <f00f-> good luck, but don't win.
Mar 27 01:47:32 <tauren> ;P
Mar 27 01:48:04 <tauren> i'm sure i won't...
Mar 27 01:48:18 <chomchom> No win!
Mar 27 01:48:34 <tauren> but the next challenge i will!
Mar 27 01:48:38 <tauren> ;)
Mar 27 01:48:50 <chomchom> No, this one, win this one!
Mar 27 01:49:45 <chomchom> I'm sure f00f's mighty app can stand to the competition
Mar 27 01:49:54 <tauren> well, we'll just see.  i'm sure all you that have been working with it for months now deserve to win
Mar 27 01:50:47 <chomchom> Well hard work will 'win' no matter what. So we're all going to win /cue cheese*
Mar 27 01:51:05 <tauren> are there any stats on how many apps have been submitted?
Mar 27 01:51:13 <chomchom> No sadly
Mar 27 01:51:30 <f00f-> chomchom: i am very excited about my app.
Mar 27 01:51:32 <chomchom> I'm sure google will be hot off the mark come the submission date
Mar 27 01:51:33 <f00f-> i need to simplify though
Mar 27 01:51:37 <f00f-> 6 icons on main screen
Mar 27 01:51:38 <tauren> figures.  i wouldn't expect them to share that.
Mar 27 01:51:41 <chomchom> f00f: me too
Mar 27 01:52:47 <tauren> crap.  gotta run and get my daughter.  chat later guys.  thanks again!
Mar 27 01:52:56 <chomchom> bye
Mar 27 01:53:12 <f00f-> ciao
Mar 27 01:53:55 <chomchom> did you see Dan_U's ? hes got a slick interface
Mar 27 01:56:17 <f00f-> his website?
Mar 27 01:56:26 <f00f-> it was ugly, but got any screenshots of the android UI ?
Mar 27 01:56:41 <chomchom> no, his application. you can download the application
Mar 27 01:56:50 <f00f-> mind taking sceens for me
Mar 27 01:56:56 <f00f-> i dont have an emulator on this machine
Mar 27 01:57:46 <chomchom> gah, guess you'll have to wait until you get home and download it to give it a whirl
Mar 27 01:57:54 <f00f-> hahaha
Mar 27 01:57:56 <f00f-> come on bro
Mar 27 01:57:59 <f00f-> i'd do the same for you
Mar 27 01:58:06 <chomchom> http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/athena/help.php
Mar 27 01:58:13 <chomchom> screenies at the bottom
Mar 27 01:58:30 <f00f-> thx
Mar 27 02:00:13 <f00f-> nice
Mar 27 02:00:16 <f00f-> wonderful
Mar 27 02:00:31 <chomchom> 'wonderful' :)
Mar 27 02:00:45 <f00f-> has some flaws, but a nice concept, i like the alerts
Mar 27 02:00:46 <zhobbs> chomchom: are you and Dan U teamed up?
Mar 27 02:00:57 <f00f-> definitely best i've seen to date
Mar 27 02:01:09 <chomchom> no, I don't know the guy apart from him being in this room
Mar 27 02:02:10 <zhobbs> is he giving you hosting or are you the author traveldroid, hey taxi, etc?
Mar 27 02:02:30 <chomchom> ! heh
Mar 27 02:02:36 <zhobbs> oh wait, are you the author of Athena?
Mar 27 02:03:06 <chomchom> no, just like to see credit going where its due. I don't know him they are all strictly his work
Mar 27 02:03:11 <zhobbs> hehe, sorry was confused for a sec :)
Mar 27 02:06:05 <zhobbs> Dan U seems to be keeping busy with all these apps
Mar 27 02:06:20 <f00f-> how many apps does he have?
Mar 27 02:06:44 <zhobbs> 4 I guess
Mar 27 02:06:49 <f00f-> any good
Mar 27 02:06:53 <f00f-> athena chowns so far
Mar 27 02:07:18 <zhobbs> there are links to them all at the bottom of this page: http://uler3161.freeweb7.com/traveloid/index.php
Mar 27 02:07:25 <chomchom> 5 athena, hey taxi!, findroid, traveloid and datelocate
Mar 27 02:07:36 <chomchom> I like the hey taxi idea
Mar 27 02:09:50 <f00f-> yeah
Mar 27 02:10:03 <f00f-> probably wouldn't work as a business model though
Mar 27 02:10:14 <f00f-> few taxis are independent anymore
Mar 27 02:10:32 <chomchom> depends where you live
Mar 27 02:10:45 <f00f-> tru
Mar 27 02:13:45 <ksiomelo`> good concepts indeed, the basic infrastructure was the same for all apps
Mar 27 02:14:02 <f00f-> yeah i saw
Mar 27 02:14:03 <f00f-> :P
Mar 27 02:16:21 <ksiomelo`> I wouldn't mind if I get the 10th place in the challenge :P
Mar 27 02:16:50 <jasta> 10th place is $300K, so, who would?
Mar 27 02:17:28 <ksiomelo`> hhehehe (I was being ironic ;))
Mar 27 02:17:42 <jasta> I don't mean to seem pretentious, but I strongly doubt that anyone just "slapping together" a project will win the challenge.
Mar 27 02:17:49 <f00f-> it's not 300k
Mar 27 02:17:54 <f00f-> you mean Phase II
Mar 27 02:17:57 <f00f-> for 275k ?
Mar 27 02:17:57 <ksiomelo`> 275
Mar 27 02:17:58 <jasta> If you haven't been developing for months, and aren't passionate about your project, you just won't win.
Mar 27 02:18:03 <f00f-> unless they upped it :>
Mar 27 02:18:05 <jasta> f00f-: It's $275K + the $25K qualifying prize.
Mar 27 02:18:12 <f00f-> righto
Mar 27 02:18:25 <jasta> Thus, if you are in the top 10 you will receive $300K.
Mar 27 02:18:42 <f00f-> makes sense
Mar 27 02:18:52 <zhobbs> I don't think there will be an order 1-10, it'll just be a group of 10 apps
Mar 27 02:19:03 <f00f-> yea
Mar 27 02:19:14 <jasta> zhobbs: well, maybe not that they release to us
Mar 27 02:19:17 <jasta> but it will exist.
Mar 27 02:19:33 <zhobbs> the way it's judged is that 10 judges get 5 apps each and they pick their number one ($275k) and their number two ($175 I think?)
Mar 27 02:19:51 <f00f-> oh
Mar 27 02:19:56 <jasta> how do you know that?
Mar 27 02:19:59 <zhobbs> I think that's how I remember it working when I read the T&S
Mar 27 02:20:09 <f00f-> zhobbs has a (wo)man on the inside
Mar 27 02:20:26 <jasta> btw, that would seem like very unfair judging to me.
Mar 27 02:20:42 <zhobbs> yeah, you could get in a weak group...
Mar 27 02:20:48 <jasta> since you're at the whim of just 1 judge, and not the full 10.  it's only 50 apps, after all.  it would not take much for each of them to weigh in.
Mar 27 02:20:51 <zhobbs> let me look at the terms again to see if I got it right
Mar 27 02:21:02 <jasta> i don't believe it says that anywhere, however.
Mar 27 02:21:22 <f00f-> but
Mar 27 02:21:23 <f00f-> remember
Mar 27 02:21:32 <f00f-> we have time to improve between 1st and 2nd prizes?
Mar 27 02:21:36 <f00f-> as in 'phases'
Mar 27 02:21:37 <zhobbs> nope, I'm wrong
Mar 27 02:21:39 <f00f-> we get like a month
Mar 27 02:21:43 <f00f-> to submit for improvement?
Mar 27 02:21:51 <jasta> more than a month, actually.  it's apr 14 to jun like 30th or something.
Mar 27 02:21:54 <zhobbs> not sure where I dreamed that up
Mar 27 02:22:10 <f00f-> right
Mar 27 02:22:10 <f00f-> so
Mar 27 02:22:12 <f00f-> what is the point
Mar 27 02:22:16 <zhobbs> "Using these criteria, the Judges will evaluate each Entry and give it a score. The ten (10) Entries with the highest scores will be determined to be a potential "First Place Entries" and will receive the First Place Grants described below. The ten (10) Entries with the next highest scores will be deemed to be the potential "Second Place Entries" and will receive the Second Place Grants described below."
Mar 27 02:22:18 <jasta> what is the point of what?
Mar 27 02:22:22 <f00f-> just say waht we will improve?
Mar 27 02:22:26 <f00f-> 1 month ain't enough time
Mar 27 02:22:54 <jasta> it's 90 days, and that is enough time to take a somewhat rough app and polish it into something nicer.
Mar 27 02:23:11 <jasta> it is not, however, enough time to take a miserably incomplete app and transform it into quality.
Mar 27 02:23:12 <f00f-> might need some good polish then
Mar 27 02:23:35 <jasta> i think you all are assuming that Google is willing to accept barely functional "proof-of-concept" apps for the qualifying round.
Mar 27 02:23:40 <jasta> I don't see that happening at all.
Mar 27 02:23:55 <jasta> Especially if you look at the judging criteria.  Proof of concept does not score high on that list.
Mar 27 02:24:00 <f00f-> i didn't say that
Mar 27 02:24:00 <zhobbs> they won't if they don't have to...I would think there might be 50 polished apps
Mar 27 02:24:03 <f00f-> PoC's will die
Mar 27 02:24:11 <jasta> PoC?
Mar 27 02:24:18 <f00f-> there *will* be 50 working apps/prototypes
Mar 27 02:24:29 <jasta> oh, proof-of-concept, yes.
Mar 27 02:24:31 <f00f-> i mean, even jasta's app might make it into the 50 :)
Mar 27 02:24:51 <zhobbs> hehe
Mar 27 02:24:56 <jasta> why would you say that?
Mar 27 02:25:28 <f00f-> i've seen your knowledge; applied to an app it might even win :D
Mar 27 02:26:10 <jasta> you seemed to suggest that jokingly.
Mar 27 02:26:39 <zhobbs> will anyone go out on a limb and say their app will def. place?
Mar 27 02:27:07 <f00f-> i will
Mar 27 02:27:12 <f00f-> my app will place
Mar 27 02:27:23 <jasta> zhobbs: If they did, it proves to us their hubris, nothing more.
Mar 27 02:27:36 <f00f-> or maybe a novel concept/idea :)
Mar 27 02:28:03 <chomchom> f00f is like, redefining computing
Mar 27 02:28:15 <jasta> But how does that help you rule out the possibility that it does not impress the judges, or that it is not in the top 50 according to their criteria?
Mar 27 02:28:17 <f00f-> well, let's not get ahead of ourselves now :)
Mar 27 02:28:21 <chomchom> you'll pick up the phone and you mind will just like, explode
Mar 27 02:28:30 <f00f-> welll i have their 4 criteria in mind
Mar 27 02:28:36 <f00f-> code freeze on 1st april
Mar 27 02:28:40 <f00f-> so i'm working hard until then
Mar 27 02:28:57 <f00f-> only stopship fixes then
Mar 27 02:29:10 <jasta> f00f-: What is your full name?
Mar 27 02:30:29 <zhobbs> My app is in QA right now
Mar 27 02:30:43 <zhobbs> well one of them
Mar 27 02:30:55 <jasta> well, dinner time.
Mar 27 02:30:55 <f00f-> jasta: i'd like to remain anonymous for now, if you don't mind.
Mar 27 02:31:00 <f00f-> enjoy :)
Mar 27 02:31:13 <jasta> I'm curious to prove that f00f- doesn't win, but I cannot do so unless we have his name :)
Mar 27 02:32:22 <f00f-> gimme a few
Mar 27 02:32:23 <f00f-> &
Mar 27 02:32:45 <zhobbs> he'll be in here bragging if he wins :)
Mar 27 02:34:03 <chomchom> man, if I even get a whiff of a mention you'll hear me from where ever you are sitting; be you in your favorite winter retreat,  or at your gran's eating biscuits.
Mar 27 02:38:21 <chomchom> even if its from a blog I have to start in order to get a mention.
Mar 27 02:49:53 <jasta> zhobbs: I know, but even then we wouldn't be able to verify he is who he says he is :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 27 02:59:57 2008