**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 03 02:59:57 2008 Apr 03 03:20:12 howdy, anyone out there? Apr 03 03:20:28 its quiet for being so close to the deadline Apr 03 03:22:15 i'm coding :) Apr 03 03:31:51 im gonna put in my submission tmrw Apr 03 03:32:10 i'm still working on mine Apr 03 03:32:43 i figured the channel would be buzzing with those last minute... how can i write a full program in three days Apr 03 03:33:01 what are you making? Apr 03 03:33:42 michaelnovakjr: there are quite a few people doing that, it seems. Apr 03 03:33:59 doing what? trying to stick something together in 5 mins? Apr 03 03:34:02 i noticed this afternoon Apr 03 03:34:09 pretty much Apr 03 03:34:17 jerkface03: yeah, several people have been in here in the last week saying "well, i guess i should get started now." Apr 03 03:34:23 haha Apr 03 03:34:56 anyone gone the full mile and has a feature full app yet? Apr 03 03:35:13 Not me, though I have been trying to do so. Apr 03 03:35:21 i have a few features that won't make it in the first round Apr 03 03:35:25 not me either. i'm making more of a library/framework Apr 03 03:35:30 I never intended to produce a half-assed prototype, because I'm not just trying to win money. Apr 03 03:35:31 i would expect that to be the norm though Apr 03 03:35:41 exactly Apr 03 03:36:02 But yeah, a lot of things I wanted won't make it because there's just no time. Apr 03 03:36:40 The three big things I'm trying to focus on is passive synchronization, content delivery/caching, and last.fm integration. Apr 03 03:36:55 yea, the big thing for me was working around not using SOAP Apr 03 03:36:58 And I'm sort of half-assing the last two, in part because of lack of time and also because the MediaPlayer is crap. Apr 03 03:37:02 which i am glad works out well Apr 03 03:37:49 i was reading the kSOAP stuff, and thought to myself ... why? Apr 03 03:37:56 Also, I'm leaving a *LOT* of room for optimization and visual improvements. Apr 03 03:38:07 definitely Apr 03 03:38:08 Not because I'm lazy, but just because I wouldn't have time to focus there and still compete. Apr 03 03:38:31 yea, i think functionality is a bit more important... the point is to have a working idea Apr 03 03:38:49 UI tune ups are to be expected, i would think Apr 03 03:38:57 I am not relying on them forgiving incomplete apps though, I'm still planning to produce something quite usable and otherwise well done. Apr 03 03:39:09 But that has some obvious opportunities for improvement. Apr 03 03:39:24 of course, but the primary reason for the application should be completed Apr 03 03:39:50 I'm still even trying to figure out exactly how I want to do playlist management. Apr 03 03:40:11 i've designed my playlist service, but I feel like I may have to go through at least one major overhaul before I get it right. Apr 03 03:40:34 playlist management is so tricky. it always seems so simple, but then you are bogged down by all the complexities involved in predicting human behaviour :) Apr 03 03:40:51 totally, and making sure it is optimized Apr 03 03:41:08 i have been focusing on making the application very light weight Apr 03 03:41:22 power consumption is huge for my app Apr 03 03:41:36 my goal is to make it very very light Apr 03 03:41:38 the two most deserving places for opt in my project are at the SyncML layer and in the UI displaying artist and album artwork. Apr 03 03:42:07 For example, to do a "fresh" sync of my entire music collection, it took the emulator 18 minutes to download all the content. Apr 03 03:42:18 And that's 18 minutes at 100% CPU usage building the database :) Apr 03 03:42:27 i can't wait to be able to debug on an actual device Apr 03 03:42:44 that is the one thing I like about the windows mobile development Apr 03 03:42:46 Though there is one pretty huge optimization I'm thinking about doing. It's totally a hack, but I had thought about having the server generate a database for "first-time sync" and simply send it to the client. Apr 03 03:43:08 that would save the device from having to do the computing for that Apr 03 03:43:11 So at least CPU utilization would be low. Apr 03 03:43:19 yea, which means less power Apr 03 03:43:25 less cycles Apr 03 03:43:29 It would still be a 14MB download in my case, but that shouldn't take very long really. Apr 03 03:43:36 true Apr 03 03:43:52 my app is constantly checking with a server for updates Apr 03 03:43:59 Fortunately, that task is the worst case for the app. One-time sync is rough, but after that, everything goes smoothly. Apr 03 03:44:01 so keeping the calls short and sweet is important Apr 03 03:44:12 Even if you are downloading several albums per day, it will sync that in less than 30 seconds. Apr 03 03:44:19 nice Apr 03 03:45:00 eliminating SOAP from my equation was a big relief Apr 03 03:45:12 why did you eliminate SOAP? Apr 03 03:45:18 the overhead Apr 03 03:45:22 How did you replace it> Apr 03 03:45:31 i am running Axis on the webserver Apr 03 03:45:48 I chose SyncML for my application protocol in large part because SyncML supports WbXML, which is enormously superior. Apr 03 03:45:51 so i can make calls via http to pull an xml doc with what i need Apr 03 03:46:05 its a rather small xml doc Apr 03 03:46:15 Though I currently do not even support it. I had to write my own SyncML client library in Java, which currently only does XML. Apr 03 03:46:23 But I actually plan to opt that part before the challenge deadline. Apr 03 03:46:39 yea, my focus is on xml and db optimizations Apr 03 03:46:41 That's part of the reason it takes 18 minutes to sync :) Apr 03 03:47:11 And, lol, I am base64 encoding album and artist artwork during the sync Apr 03 03:47:24 18 minutes to sync? Apr 03 03:47:26 So it's no wonder that part is so slow Apr 03 03:47:32 ah, i am sure that is a decent amount of the time Apr 03 03:47:38 is that because of the bigint mod being so slow? Apr 03 03:47:51 I plan to migrate to WbXML and remove the Base64 encoding hack all in the same step. Apr 03 03:47:53 base64 encoding is known to be slow Apr 03 03:48:05 even on a webserver Apr 03 03:48:15 so imagine working with it in a mobile device Apr 03 03:48:26 it's not like i really designed it to use base64, it was just a stupid hack because WbXML wasn't supported yet. Apr 03 03:48:34 and without WbXML, i couldn't inline a binary document as I want to. Apr 03 03:48:41 my application will be running pretty much all the time so the power consumption is my biggest worry Apr 03 03:48:52 i wanted to avoid having extra HTTP request overhead to download the images. They are small and should be carried with the sync data. Apr 03 03:48:59 yea Apr 03 03:49:12 be back in a few Apr 03 03:49:18 i have the server optimize them down to about 3K JPG images. Apr 03 03:56:06 why not use something like http://iharder.sourceforge.net/current/java/base64/ Apr 03 03:56:24 because i don't even need to use Base64 permanently. Apr 03 03:56:37 also, i am using that right now. Apr 03 03:57:24 didn't you listen to what i said? :) Apr 03 03:59:58 guess not :-( Apr 03 04:06:07 the more i program with android the more i don't mind that it is completely java Apr 03 04:06:28 i never did mind. Apr 03 04:06:48 i have a very love hate relationship with java Apr 03 04:06:52 i have evolved beyond language affinity :) Apr 03 04:07:03 haha Apr 03 04:07:23 haha Apr 03 04:32:01 teehee Apr 03 04:32:16 listening to Rogue Wave - California... o/~ screw california... o/~ Apr 03 04:32:28 haha Apr 03 04:34:58 T joining the party.. woohooo! http://www.helloandroid.com/node/335 Apr 03 04:35:25 there's a new episode of the google developer podcast Apr 03 04:35:35 i must say i am surprised Apr 03 04:35:57 muthu: read between the lines: that may be bad news. Apr 03 04:36:04 why is bad, jasta? Apr 03 04:36:30 read carefully: there is a strong possibility they are saying "Oh, you mean we *can* cripple it? Great, we're in!" Apr 03 04:37:20 or... wait, we can actually touch the software on a phone.... hmmm does apple know this? Apr 03 04:37:37 oh yes, that's always a possibility.. but that's what opensource gives you Apr 03 04:37:51 gives everyone the freedom to do whatever Apr 03 04:38:13 michaelnovakjr: what? Apr 03 04:38:21 ...about the podcast, i mean Apr 03 04:38:39 muthu: Generally, no, open source has never met the likes of wireless carriers. Apr 03 04:38:51 ah, the google developer podcast is new for the first time since the android episode on december 5th Apr 03 04:39:03 The GPL was designed to save us from such evils, but Android is released under the Apache license so who knows. Apr 03 04:39:03 jasta: wide adoption is good Apr 03 04:39:16 michaelnovakjr: where? Apr 03 04:39:43 jasta: from an application perspective, it must run fine Apr 03 04:39:58 no vendor would cripple it so much that it becomes useless for an app to run Apr 03 04:40:06 i get it from iTunes....but the link is here ..... http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2007/05/introducing-google-developer-podcast.html Apr 03 04:40:13 there is a subscribe link to it there Apr 03 04:40:15 Not necessarily. Also, AT&T might now be in a position to still cram all their usual shit down your throat. Apr 03 04:42:55 yes, ineveitable Apr 03 04:43:31 expect to see tdroid, rimdroid, nokdroid, windroid etc., :) Apr 03 04:43:47 luckily we are all geeky enough that we can undo any damage AT&T does to android with it's preinstalled crap Apr 03 04:43:58 definitely Apr 03 04:44:08 we'll see. Apr 03 04:44:17 are we going to be able to install android on current handsets out now? Apr 03 04:44:22 i'll take it any day, as long as droid is the common factor. this is a BIG plus for mobile developers. Apr 03 04:44:25 like for example my HTC Touch? Apr 03 04:44:32 no, of course not Apr 03 04:45:12 wishful thinking Apr 03 04:46:08 HTC is coming out with android phone soon Apr 03 04:46:09 i had an interesting conversation yesterday with a mobile device company Apr 03 04:46:21 they said they are coming up with android phones and want to talk to me (i'm not sure if its an AF joke) Apr 03 04:47:01 i just got the touch a few weeks ago, insanely cheap price for it... sucks that you can't install the software on existing phones Apr 03 04:47:36 it bluetooth tethers the modem to my mac :).... shocking for a win mobile device Apr 03 04:47:56 win mobile is terrible with battery life though Apr 03 04:49:01 battery and broadband.. that seems to be the challenge now Apr 03 04:49:23 yea... i must say the blackberry 8703 i had was amazing on battery life Apr 03 04:50:23 the mobile oem's will figure it soon Apr 03 04:51:07 i'm just closing my eyes, when people talk about battery and mobile broadband (in 5yrs, it would be a non issue) Apr 03 04:51:15 anyone agree? Apr 03 04:51:31 I hope so Apr 03 04:51:35 i'm sure Apr 03 04:51:42 battery tech is getting much better every year Apr 03 04:51:55 its come quite a way so far when you think back to the phone you had 5 years ago Apr 03 04:52:16 cool.. so now i can go back to my battery sucking broadband hungry mobile app development :) Apr 03 04:53:23 my phone 5 years ago had superior battery life to my phone now, actually. Apr 03 04:53:26 we're working on a mobile search engine - http://mobeegal.in Apr 03 04:53:45 anyone have any ideas? Apr 03 04:54:04 you'd call that broadband hungry? i doubt that ;) Apr 03 04:54:26 jasta: give me some suggestions for a mobile search engine Apr 03 04:54:29 my application will be battery sucking and broadband hungry, to the point that i expect many users will want to use my app in conjunction with a charger :) Apr 03 04:54:37 muthu: Google seems to have it down just fine. Apr 03 04:54:37 lol Apr 03 04:54:42 nope Apr 03 04:54:58 yeah, for some apps you are better off just using plugged in Apr 03 04:54:59 google is for desktop not for mobile Apr 03 04:55:01 Where does Google fail? Whatever your answer is to that question should give you a pretty good place to start. Apr 03 04:55:22 good advice Apr 03 04:55:29 jasta: google is not mobile Apr 03 04:55:53 google is an internet search engine Apr 03 04:56:03 not a mobile search engine Apr 03 04:56:10 Well, if you can't answer that question concretely, then it's no wonder you need help finding direction. Apr 03 04:56:11 ? Apr 03 04:56:13 i cant say i actually use a search engine on my phone at the moment Apr 03 04:56:25 http://google.com/mobile Apr 03 04:56:25 correct Apr 03 04:56:48 dueynz: a lot of websites have mobile versions Apr 03 04:56:55 So if you can't say precisely what you dislike about Google on a mobile phone, then what makes you think you can do better? Apr 03 04:57:15 you might be able to change the interface of google Apr 03 04:57:17 jasta: if i know the answer, i would not be looking for help here Apr 03 04:57:23 but creating your own search db Apr 03 04:57:27 bit of a mission Apr 03 04:57:57 to the point that i'd say muthu will fail in this endeavour :) Apr 03 04:58:02 lol Apr 03 04:58:08 no offense, but you don't even have an idea at all. Apr 03 04:58:22 no offence will ever be taken, don't worry Apr 03 04:58:33 how do you fund the thousands of servers required? Apr 03 04:58:34 criticism helps a lot Apr 03 04:58:37 (or millions?) Apr 03 04:58:37 it reminds me of the underpants gnomes episode of South Park. Step 1, collect underpants, Step 2, ???, Step 3, profit. Apr 03 04:58:45 i thought of a search engine idea that would not track your every move Apr 03 04:58:55 its very tough to accomplish Apr 03 04:59:18 michael: what's your search engine idea about? Apr 03 04:59:19 how do you expect to achieve give good results to a user without user data? Apr 03 04:59:35 duey: yeah lot of questions for me too Apr 03 04:59:44 duey: user data need to be collected and stored Apr 03 04:59:49 im fine with google logging it all, only becomes a problem if they start giving it away which im sure they will never do Apr 03 04:59:56 not to the extent that google does it Apr 03 05:00:08 how do you know the extent? Apr 03 05:00:15 what if they have user_id,keyword Apr 03 05:00:20 is that bad? Apr 03 05:00:21 i get an email from my uncle at marriott and then i get ads for rooms at the hotel Apr 03 05:00:32 thats ad targeting Apr 03 05:00:45 google is just be beginning of the search solution phenomena.. there's more to come Apr 03 05:00:46 i understand that is the core busines Apr 03 05:01:14 but it can be scary especially when people can get there hands on your search data Apr 03 05:01:15 michaelnovakjr, they provide gmail, which is awesome and you expect them not to have advertising? Apr 03 05:01:23 how? Apr 03 05:01:25 it is expected Apr 03 05:01:38 i know you can view your search history Apr 03 05:01:40 how else do you make money off a free product like that Apr 03 05:01:41 ads must be welcome Apr 03 05:01:41 but you can turn that off Apr 03 05:02:03 for exchange of a great service, you must welcome ads Apr 03 05:02:09 if i was going to click on an ad (which i never do) i would be more inclined to click on something im interested in Apr 03 05:02:19 everyone needs to make money afterall Apr 03 05:02:23 i dont mind ads.... but from the content of emails... Apr 03 05:02:30 so Apr 03 05:02:37 you are the only one seeing it Apr 03 05:02:41 you and a computer program Apr 03 05:03:00 anything which is not in your system is public Apr 03 05:03:16 debatable Apr 03 05:03:27 i can't go get your search terms Apr 03 05:03:29 people are using facebook, twitter etc., to search more than google Apr 03 05:03:42 uh? Apr 03 05:03:44 i don't think it is a big deal, i mean i use the services and find them great... its just when in the wrong hands can be a headache Apr 03 05:03:49 hackers .... and the such Apr 03 05:04:10 im sure google have more security in place than the DoD Apr 03 05:04:41 yeah.. and hopefully you don't store sensitive information in email Apr 03 05:04:50 haha.... that'll make you feel a whole lot better Apr 03 05:04:55 of course Apr 03 05:05:10 oh.. wait ( ** runs to delete all his sensitive emails **) Apr 03 05:05:15 haha Apr 03 05:05:26 gmail doesn't really delete them ;) Apr 03 05:05:27 uuuhhh..... pgp?? Apr 03 05:05:35 oh shit Apr 03 05:05:45 gmail trash it.. i mean REALLY trash it!! Apr 03 05:05:50 michaelnovakjr, what about googles many thounsands of computers? Apr 03 05:05:59 they could break your pgp in what, a year? Apr 03 05:06:06 of course Apr 03 05:06:19 hence why i don't waste my time with it Apr 03 05:06:38 i would much rather trust google with my emails than m$ Apr 03 05:06:48 they probably sell the emails to marketing companies Apr 03 05:06:49 in a heartbeat Apr 03 05:08:36 check out http://mosio.com (people powered mobile search) Apr 03 05:08:47 that's a mobile search engine, not google Apr 03 05:10:10 you ask, people answer Apr 03 05:10:59 what if i answer with cra Apr 03 05:11:00 crap Apr 03 05:11:37 ah come on.. that's already proven Apr 03 05:11:51 crap doesn't work.. look at wikipedia Apr 03 05:12:01 opensystems have a way to beat crap Apr 03 05:18:34 like? Apr 03 05:18:48 only way to beat crap is to have dual answering Apr 03 05:19:49 yeah, many people would answer your question Apr 03 05:19:58 you pick what you like Apr 03 05:21:26 http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/ Apr 03 05:26:56 hey, does anyone know how to change the focus back to the tabs in a TabHost from a datepicker using only the dpad? Apr 03 05:27:24 I've been using the select callback to change focus Apr 03 05:27:36 datepicker is in bad shape Apr 03 05:27:42 but I don't see how to set the focus back to a Tab Apr 03 05:27:49 what's wrong with datepicker? Apr 03 05:28:07 it's ugly (alignment all messed up) and doesn't work with touchscreen Apr 03 05:28:11 it works fine for me, it's just a little annoying that you can't easilly get out of it Apr 03 05:28:32 hmm, well I modified mine quite a bit, and getting it to work with touchscreen is not so hard, except it's a little small Apr 03 05:29:08 either way, from any activity that is contained in a Tab, is there a way to get back to the tabs without touching them? Apr 03 05:29:23 I know jasta made a tab demo Apr 03 05:30:29 i don't think so, no. Apr 03 05:30:42 but that is likely to change in future releases. Apr 03 05:31:09 ok, so, I should just meantion in my docs that that's a known current issue? Apr 03 05:31:10 thanks jasta Apr 03 05:31:52 you think the only way I have to set the focus of the tabs is to touch them? I can't hook it fromt the center dpad onkey somehow? Apr 03 05:32:30 jasta, thanks for that demo by the way, it really spruced up my app Apr 03 05:33:27 no problem, i dont suppose youre interested in sharing any artwork you created for it? Apr 03 05:33:36 i have been struggling to come up with something that looks like i want :) Apr 03 05:33:43 rhett: can't you use the dpak right key to shift focus? Apr 03 05:36:32 muthu, in a datepicker, dpad right, left, up, down moves around the date selector Apr 03 05:36:58 jasta, I just used your little 3d thing, it looks great Apr 03 05:37:07 rhett: i was talking about the tabs Apr 03 05:37:10 sorry, my artwork will come at the last possible second Apr 03 05:38:18 muthu, when the tabs are selected, I can use right and left, but when I have a datepicker selected, that is in one of the tabs, I can't jump from the datepicker back to the tabs without touching them Apr 03 05:38:31 oh o Apr 03 05:38:34 ok Apr 03 05:42:19 rhett: looked like hell i thought. Apr 03 05:43:20 jasta: i gave up on the tab customization.. went with the default look Apr 03 05:43:41 the default look was very bad for my application. very bad :) Apr 03 05:44:19 yeah but the design work is too much for me Apr 03 05:44:58 me too i guess. i actually created a second version that looks a bit nicer than the first one i posted Apr 03 05:45:03 but it doesn't look that much better :\ Apr 03 05:45:15 i tried so hard to copy the iPhone :) Apr 03 05:45:16 jasta, I thought your tab demo looked pretty classy Apr 03 05:45:17 but i suck Apr 03 05:45:53 rhett: you're crazy :) Apr 03 05:46:03 but thanks i guess ;) Apr 03 06:26:23 wow, onclick events aren't supported in LinearLayout Apr 03 06:26:30 for TextViews and whatnot Apr 03 06:26:44 yes they are, TextViews just aren't clickable. Apr 03 06:27:05 jasta: TextViews are never clickable, or just in the context of LinearLayout? Apr 03 06:27:16 set the TextView both clickable and focusable, then your onClick listener will fire. Apr 03 06:27:36 hrm Apr 03 06:27:48 I think I must not have set focusable, i know I set clickable Apr 03 06:27:59 set it focusable, and it will work. i have done this before. Apr 03 06:28:11 jasta: i believe you Apr 03 06:37:27 'morning Apr 03 06:38:33 hola Apr 03 06:38:36 but i'm going to bed :) Apr 03 09:52:35 can buttons be "dual active", like when you click it first time it sets button "enabled" and next time it's "disabled"? Apr 03 11:07:47 Hai-Fai, sounds like a bad idea Apr 03 11:40:16 well, for me, it doesn't, and would be very useful from time to time.. but I think I'll organize it some other way Apr 03 11:45:03 hi there, if i'm doing a research on mobible browsers, i don't know whther it's possible to get the source code for android system? Apr 03 11:45:37 because i know that android has not released all its source so far... Apr 03 11:49:08 you can decompile the .jar. other than that, no Apr 03 12:08:03 kennyyu, android uses webkit Apr 03 15:34:35 davidw: ya I know... but I aren't sure if it is possible to edit the source code for compiling on Android? That is, actually, if I just have the API of Android then I think it's already sufficient.. Apr 03 15:35:19 source code hasn't been released yet Apr 03 15:35:48 davidw: Hmm... not even the API? Apr 03 15:36:09 kennyyu, the API is described in the docs Apr 03 15:37:30 davidw: Oops.. sorry. I must have missed some point before. I thought that to build a Webkit on Android is impossible at this stage. So is it really possible? Apr 03 15:37:44 no, it isn't Apr 03 15:38:24 davidw: I see. Thanks. ;) Apr 03 15:38:38 I'll want for the source... ;) Apr 03 15:38:49 nice of you to have solved my puzzle Apr 03 16:25:00 yawn Apr 03 16:25:30 yawn Apr 03 16:25:46 davidw: the webkit source is avaialble Apr 03 16:26:40 I know, but not android's version Apr 03 16:26:50 or is it? Apr 03 16:27:33 It is. Apr 03 16:37:43 You just lied to that guy :) Apr 03 16:37:51 *tsk tsk* Apr 03 16:50:24 Google Gears is really interesting. I'm excited to learn more about this at the I/O conference Apr 03 16:50:36 how can I flip or mirror a canvas/drawable? Apr 03 16:50:49 jasta: you going to the IO thing? Apr 03 16:50:53 yeah Apr 03 16:51:28 I would like to go....just don't want to put up the money for the airfare/hotel Apr 03 16:52:37 i'm staying with my friend, and airfare from seattle is cheap. Apr 03 16:52:45 that's cool Apr 03 16:53:03 i'm mostly going just to hang out, though :) Apr 03 16:53:19 i don't get to see my friend much Apr 03 16:53:26 yeah, I've never been to san fran (or CA at all) Apr 03 16:53:37 i was in CA last week hehe Apr 03 16:53:47 but other than that, i've only been to San Francisco twice. Apr 03 16:55:39 cool Apr 03 16:55:47 jasta, when is that conference? Apr 03 16:55:55 * davidw lived there for a while Apr 03 16:57:24 may 28-29 i think Apr 03 16:58:51 zhobbs: how can I flip or mirror a canvas/drawable? << just scale by -1 on the Y axis Apr 03 17:03:59 romainguy_: will you guys be involved in the ADC judging process at all? will you have access to any of the apps or anything? Apr 03 17:05:24 romainguy_: thanks Apr 03 17:07:17 jasta: I have no idea, but considering how busy we are, I don't think it'd be a good diea Apr 03 17:10:50 how busy are you? :) Apr 03 17:11:43 too busy Apr 03 17:13:34 hehe Apr 03 17:14:03 me too. full time job with the ADC pressure on top of it is rough :) Apr 03 17:14:47 i actually took next Friday off work to spend the entire weekend doing last minute code review, bug fixes, etc :) Apr 03 17:15:12 that's dedication Apr 03 17:19:43 well it's not like you guys are handing out $15 gift certificates to Red Robin. Apr 03 17:22:32 though i must admit that i'm actually just excited to have this app. lately i've been getting frustrated that i can't actually use my app when i drive to work in the morning :) Apr 03 17:23:49 i was listening to all this really great music that reminded me of 2 summers ago and as I was driving to work i was pondering a cool way to automatically access that playlist using Last.fm's "most recent tracks" Apr 03 17:27:00 i thought about burning a cd, but the playlist was too long and i didn't have time to sit down and deal with sorting it. Apr 03 18:48:09 romainguy_: is there a way to do an alpha gradient effect on a canvas? Apr 03 18:57:56 ahh, found shader and LinearGradient Apr 03 19:13:20 zhobbs: yes, since that's how we do the faded edgets in lists and scroll views for instance Apr 03 19:16:54 my app just uses the regular theme Apr 03 19:17:06 should i make my own theme Apr 03 19:17:11 it's mainly black and white right now Apr 03 19:17:14 not too much color Apr 03 19:17:25 that's up to you :) Apr 03 19:18:05 i am choosing to keep much of the default theme, but will likely not continue to do so for long Apr 03 19:18:21 i think the default theme will not mesh well for my app. Apr 03 19:18:48 same here, but i am focused on making sure the application works great first Apr 03 19:18:54 then i'll fine tune my UI Apr 03 19:19:26 yeah, agreed. my app still has functional problems, so the UI is not a high priority yet. Apr 03 19:19:31 that is, the look of it. Apr 03 19:20:32 leave something to be desired :) Apr 03 19:23:10 my app is still being written Apr 03 19:23:25 how many hours are you dedicated to last-minute prep (post freeze) ? Apr 03 19:23:51 few days Apr 03 19:24:06 hmm ok Apr 03 19:24:06 I'm going to start coding my app this weekend Apr 03 19:24:16 you said that 2 weeks ago zhobbs Apr 03 19:24:19 slacker! Apr 03 19:24:45 well i'm hoping to freeze by sunday, and test/document until the end Apr 03 19:24:46 I like the people posting "great ideas" in the lists a week ago Apr 03 19:25:21 haha Apr 03 19:26:16 lots of ideas Apr 03 19:26:25 some one better come up with a decent SMS app Apr 03 19:26:36 and it better chown iPhone's interface Apr 03 19:26:51 i'd say that's a 2 week project Apr 03 19:27:08 with a good chance to win Apr 03 19:27:15 maybe even add GTalk support Apr 03 19:27:21 then you're guaranteed to win Apr 03 19:27:27 a generic Messaging app Apr 03 19:33:39 f00f: good idea Apr 03 19:34:42 i am starting to take that idea now and WIN!! Apr 03 19:34:43 haha Apr 03 19:34:56 ok go run with it and just give me $20 when you win KTHX Apr 03 19:34:57 its a good idea though Apr 03 19:35:14 messaging should be seamless Apr 03 19:35:22 might take longer than two weeks Apr 03 19:35:25 i mean seriously, it's such an obvious one that i hope someone does it, so we don't get stuck with some garbage messaging app Apr 03 19:35:53 f00f: people miss the obvious ones Apr 03 19:35:58 i'm sure no one is working on it Apr 03 19:36:09 true Apr 03 19:36:31 there is still time Apr 03 19:36:32 well, i'm sure we'll have plenty of work once the first round results are released Apr 03 19:36:46 to develop a decent messaging app might not make the deadline Apr 03 19:36:57 i'd say the GUI is the toughest Apr 03 19:37:03 backend can be done in 8 hours tops Apr 03 19:37:17 the GUI is a big part of making it seamless Apr 03 19:37:47 all you really need is the SMS message store, GTalk message store, and and archiving system. expose a couple of content providers, etc. Apr 03 19:40:00 ok so now actually one of you guys is going to do it Apr 03 19:54:20 guess not?.... Apr 03 20:01:42 guessed right I think =P Apr 03 20:01:50 haha Apr 03 20:01:52 that's just a way to get others do your job Apr 03 20:02:12 "I'm lazy, let others do my idea what I want for my phone some day" Apr 03 20:02:36 that's a pretty common attitude in the open source community, actually. Apr 03 20:02:43 yep Apr 03 20:02:52 lots of folks assume there is an army of developers just waiting to do their bidding :) Apr 03 20:02:59 ha Apr 03 20:03:15 there is plenty of coders out there, but they just don't have big ideas =) Apr 03 20:03:31 or the brains for a big idea Apr 03 20:03:39 yeah, I feel bad adding feature requests to OSS projects Apr 03 20:03:47 well, most of them just don't get any ideas, even if they had those "big" brains Apr 03 20:04:29 i try and do as much as i can.... not enough hours in the day Apr 03 20:04:37 same here.. Apr 03 20:04:56 and somewhat of lazyness tries to get in to my body although.. Apr 03 20:05:33 when i finish my current project i certainly will pick up another Apr 03 20:06:11 I think this current project is enough to get to second round, so I'll just wait for one month and start doing some "detailing" to it Apr 03 20:09:32 11 days and counting.. yikes.. Apr 03 20:09:58 its approaching very fast Apr 03 20:11:20 yep, been doing last few weeks about 12hour days if nothing else to do.. Apr 03 20:11:29 from monday to monday =) Apr 03 20:12:03 i am putting in all the time that i can Apr 03 20:13:14 yep, success in that project, and no need to worry about advertising Apr 03 20:13:34 12 hour days? you must not work. Apr 03 20:13:51 i have been steadily doing about 2 hours per day on avg since late Dec. Apr 03 20:14:16 but now I've ramped that up to about 4 per day on week nights and probably 8 for the next 2 weekends. Apr 03 20:14:19 i have lots left to do :) Apr 03 20:14:28 Hai-Fai: what is your project? Apr 03 20:14:33 android =P Apr 03 20:14:39 but what specifically? Apr 03 20:15:14 hah, just kiddin'.. well it's kinda secret, but it has something to do with maps and something else classified =) Apr 03 20:15:14 At this point is there really any reason protecting the idea? Surely no one would be able to implement it in the next 11 days? Apr 03 20:15:46 well, I know for sure, there is ppl out there who could do almost anything in those 11 days, so it stays as a secret to the last day, and even further =) Apr 03 20:16:05 That doesn't make much sense to me. Apr 03 20:16:45 i am developing a top secret advertising program.... it displays ads based on your sms messages and emails Apr 03 20:17:16 well nonetheless I'm not going to tell, no matter what, it's kinda new idea in that area anyways, so it stays as a secret, we'll see what it leads to Apr 03 20:17:18 Why would anyone want to install that? Apr 03 20:17:33 I think that's just a teaser.. Apr 03 20:17:36 haha, i was only kidding Apr 03 20:17:43 Hai-Fai: My idea is quite new, to my knowledge only one company has even attempted it before, and their implementation is bad. Apr 03 20:18:08 yep, my idea isn't my idea, it's a team program Apr 03 20:18:17 well, 30% or so of it is mine Apr 03 20:18:19 And it's not even novel in the area of mobile software, it just doesn't exist anywhere. Apr 03 20:19:19 The real challenge with my app is whether it's even practical. It is pressing the edge of a lot of current limitations :) Apr 03 20:19:53 almost went to sleep Apr 03 20:20:05 there is few ideas left on mobile industry which doesn't exist yet, and this adc just got one of those ideas.. after this competition is over, we are starting one bigger project which will lead to big markets if this first program goes to (semi)finals Apr 03 20:20:08 Hai-fai is pulling me into the discussion Apr 03 20:20:42 hai-fai what do you mean? ideas doesn't exist yet? Apr 03 20:20:45 Hai-Fai: why does it matter if your program wins the ADC? Will that affect its marketability? Apr 03 20:21:16 hai-fai have you looked at myloki.com Apr 03 20:21:25 doesn't have to win, it counts only if you get to top 50, then your name is on everyone's coffeetable discussions, might be anyways, but I count on that Apr 03 20:21:56 Hai-Fai: So you're hoping to use the ADC solely for publicity? That is absurd. Apr 03 20:21:57 haven't, should I? Apr 03 20:22:08 yeah let me know your feedback Apr 03 20:22:17 also look at rummble.com Apr 03 20:22:25 and if you have time, elimatta.com Apr 03 20:22:36 one more.. mosio.com Apr 03 20:23:39 well, I just hope adc will be a big start for new corporations in that area, 'cause there isn't "any" yet, and if they succeed in adc, that's easy way to start building up company Apr 03 20:24:16 when you think about it only the hardcore guys know remotely anything about android Apr 03 20:24:26 so i doubt you'll get a call from 60 minutes Apr 03 20:24:36 lol Apr 03 20:24:41 I've no use for "60 minutes" things Apr 03 20:25:21 good night folks Apr 03 20:25:27 nn Apr 03 20:26:50 and, anyways most relevant things in that sdk is still out of usage as far as I've been discovering it, dunno if it's because lack of time, or are they keeping somethings on their own, so they may release the "best software".. Apr 03 20:27:04 or maybe not most relevant, but some of them.. Apr 03 20:28:32 enough of whiskey and beer for this evening [1 + 1], so time for bed.. nn folks Apr 03 22:14:14 yawn Apr 03 23:42:37 morrildl: will the judges have music to test media players? Apr 04 00:03:21 ahh, home Apr 04 00:03:36 zhobbs: i was instructed to provide my own content. Apr 04 00:03:47 ok Apr 04 00:04:09 wonder if I can just provide an SD card image Apr 04 00:04:09 but keep in mind that you cannot distribute illegally copied music to them :) Apr 04 00:04:14 yeah Apr 04 00:04:55 i am actually planning to just take my music collection and run a script over it to replace all mp3 and ogg files with festival output saying "You are now listening to {Song} by {Artist}" over and over. Apr 04 00:04:55 gotta find some crappy creative commons stuff or something Apr 04 00:05:45 that way, they can see my music player with recognizable artists and albums, but without the actual content. Apr 04 00:05:59 plus, the festival output makes it obvious that the system is "working", it's just refusing to illegaly copy music :) Apr 04 00:06:55 i would be willing to share my script with you if you are comfortable waiting. that will probably be one of the last things i do, some time next week. Apr 04 00:09:11 how long are your README's going to be in pages? Apr 04 00:09:32 i doubt they'll have time to read more than 3 pages of text Apr 04 00:09:34 Mine will be short. Apr 04 00:09:41 Just a couple of paragraphs probably Apr 04 00:09:45 I'm hoping that my app needs little introduction. Apr 04 00:09:46 jasta: well, wouldn't be useful for my case. The mp3 player plays lyrics synced to the music so I need real songs Apr 04 00:10:01 are you going to add screenshots? Apr 04 00:10:06 jasta: archive.org has some free music you can use Apr 04 00:10:15 thanks though Apr 04 00:10:24 i feel my app will need some explanation or pictures to make people fully understand Apr 04 00:10:29 f00f-: i might record a demo video or something and distribute it with my app actually Apr 04 00:10:39 ah good idea Apr 04 00:10:45 Stephmw: it will be much better for my app if i use more conventional music. Apr 04 00:25:43 archive.org has plenty of conventional music Apr 04 00:26:33 i think he means mainstream, eg. RIAA :) Apr 04 00:27:38 there are live versions of plenty of RIAA bands though Apr 04 00:27:40 Bonkers: i wouldn't say that the music found there fits the definition, but yes f00f is correct. Apr 04 00:28:04 Bonkers: And almost none of it has rich meta data associated with it, and is therefore useless to me. Apr 04 00:28:20 where do you get tracks with lyrics and timestamp data? Apr 04 00:28:41 I was wondering that too. Apr 04 00:29:18 I wonder if he's trying something more clever. That would be very tough to do with a mobile phone. Apr 04 00:30:34 what kind of rich meta data are you looking for? Apr 04 00:31:01 My project uses last.fm to generate suggestions, automatic playlists, etc. Apr 04 00:31:14 so it just needs track name and such? Apr 04 00:31:39 Yes, but last.fm must have sufficient backing data to make use of the information you submit. Apr 04 00:32:01 If I use my personal collection as I intend to, then I already have a wealth of meta data built up on last.fm as I have been a user for years. Apr 04 00:32:35 Plus, writing a script to replace the content of my songs would be much simpler than collecting music from that site. Apr 04 00:32:45 right, seems like you've got the issue solved well Apr 04 00:33:40 I am submitting my ADC project to Google as if it were configured for me to use. With my last.fm credentials (changed, of course, with the hope that Google does not leak them), and configured to connect to my media server. Apr 04 00:33:44 I was only asking since I have a script taht attempts to parse setlist and tag shows from the LMA that I've used to build up quite a collection Apr 04 00:34:15 can't you read last.fm data without credentials? or are you scrobbling also? Apr 04 00:34:33 I'm scrobbling, but last.fm data I don't consider generally useful unless you have your own scrobbled data to use. Apr 04 00:34:48 I mean, why do I want to auto-generate a playlist of the top 10 most popular albums i have that *OTHER* people chose? :) Apr 04 00:34:50 right, but I'm pretty sure I can access my friends' data Apr 04 00:34:55 Wouldn't it be better to generate *my* top 10? :) Apr 04 00:35:33 Ahh yes, you don't need authentication for that reason. Though I do plan to take advantage of live scrobbling features. Apr 04 00:40:02 wow, my project is 15K loc now :) Apr 04 00:40:10 ...getting there :) Apr 04 00:47:48 wow Apr 04 00:48:13 do you like your braces on a separate line? :P Apr 04 00:49:05 i do, in fact :) Apr 04 00:49:14 but, my project is also much bigger than yours ;) Apr 04 00:51:02 let me count non-whitespace characters... Apr 04 00:52:12 i use jlc Apr 04 00:52:15 java line counter Apr 04 00:52:17 66775 :) Apr 04 00:52:20 and i'm at about 4000 or so Apr 04 00:52:24 oh my Apr 04 00:52:52 and i thought a music player was a simple two-line job :P Apr 04 00:53:29 you must not appreciate the scope of my player. Apr 04 00:53:40 i can't wait to see it Apr 04 00:53:53 you better make sure it supports crossfading Apr 04 00:53:56 and an equalizer Apr 04 00:53:59 :D Apr 04 00:54:00 please! Apr 04 00:54:04 you guys getting anyone to test your app before submitting it? Apr 04 00:54:26 no one professional. might show it to some friends if i have the time. Apr 04 00:55:20 f00f-: certainly not in the first version, but eventually sure :) Apr 04 00:56:19 great :) Apr 04 01:06:14 jlc huh Apr 04 01:06:50 where do I grab that Apr 04 01:12:48 http://www.reasoning.com/downloads/java_line_count_estimator.html Apr 04 01:13:01 linecnt.pl Apr 04 01:24:52 the most complicated thing I've ever done in java seems to be 6526 lines Apr 04 01:25:13 only 500 so far in my android ap Apr 04 02:04:44 Hey, does anyone know a good graphics artist for android? Apr 04 02:06:16 ayo quick question Apr 04 02:06:25 ok Apr 04 02:06:38 can anyone figure out the following logcat Apr 04 02:06:49 one sec let me post on pastebin Apr 04 02:07:56 http://pastebin.com/mf806a3f Apr 04 02:13:42 rhett? Apr 04 02:14:35 anyone ? Apr 04 02:59:53 f00f-: why not just character count? it would be more accurate than line counting anyway **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 04 02:59:56 2008