**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 04 02:59:56 2008
Apr 04 03:00:01 <jasta> non-space characters, i mean.
Apr 04 03:03:13 <jjt001> rhett?
Apr 04 03:03:13 <rhett> Does our app have to work for a lot of different resolutions?
Apr 04 03:03:16 <rhett> yeah?
Apr 04 03:03:18 <jjt001> http://pastebin.com/mf806a3f
Apr 04 03:03:22 <jjt001> check the pastebin
Apr 04 03:03:23 <rhett> sorry, i'm on dialup
Apr 04 03:03:34 <jjt001> no problem
Apr 04 03:03:51 <michaelnovakjr> wait, did you say dialup?
Apr 04 03:04:12 <jjt001> i got an NullPointerException when i tried to extract a location from the LocationManager
Apr 04 03:04:17 <jjt001> when's the deadline?
Apr 04 03:04:35 <rhett> april 14 i think
Apr 04 03:04:45 <rhett> yeah michaelnovakjr
Apr 04 03:04:49 <rhett> am i missing anything?
Apr 04 03:05:03 <rhett> also, it's thundering, so the power might go out
Apr 04 03:05:07 <jjt001> rhett?: everything
Apr 04 03:05:19 <jjt001> rhett: where are you
Apr 04 03:05:19 <rhett> Not only that, I'm on an HP Pentium 3
Apr 04 03:05:22 <rhett> arkansas
Apr 04 03:05:36 <jjt001> ah, the South
Apr 04 03:06:00 <michaelnovakjr> wow, have a blackberry?
Apr 04 03:06:09 <michaelnovakjr> internet speeds aren't so bad with that on sprint
Apr 04 03:06:13 <jjt001> anyone know what my problem is?
Apr 04 03:06:16 <jjt001> http://pastebin.com/mf806a3f
Apr 04 03:06:19 <rhett> sorry jjt001
Apr 04 03:06:22 <jjt001> <>?
Apr 04 03:06:37 <jjt001> rhett: i excuse you
Apr 04 03:06:57 <jjt001> rhett: no problem
Apr 04 03:07:09 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr?
Apr 04 03:07:13 <jjt001> anyone?
Apr 04 03:07:19 <michaelnovakjr> one sec
Apr 04 03:07:24 <jjt001> thanks
Apr 04 03:07:48 <michaelnovakjr> any code snippet?
Apr 04 03:07:55 <michaelnovakjr> null pointers can come from anywhere
Apr 04 03:08:35 <rhett> hmm, i need a designer for my app
Apr 04 03:08:40 <jjt001> yeah, it's when i use a Location that i got from LocationManger.getLocation ();
Apr 04 03:08:47 <jjt001> rhett: try droiddray
Apr 04 03:08:55 <rhett> nobody knows if it needs to work on a lot of different resolutions?
Apr 04 03:08:56 <jjt001> *droiddraw
Apr 04 03:09:00 <rhett> jjt001, i'm not that sunk
Apr 04 03:09:02 <rhett> thanks though
Apr 04 03:09:16 <rhett> i mean, like background graphics and icons could really spruce it up
Apr 04 03:09:29 <jjt001> rhett: i see what you're saying
Apr 04 03:09:32 <rhett> isn't android going to run on a lot of devices?
Apr 04 03:09:46 <michaelnovakjr> jjt001 are you definitely getting a location back?
Apr 04 03:09:53 <michaelnovakjr> it could be that throwing the exception
Apr 04 03:09:54 <jjt001> no i'm getting a null
Apr 04 03:10:00 <michaelnovakjr> makes sense
Apr 04 03:10:02 <jjt001> yes that's it
Apr 04 03:10:09 <jjt001> but i can't figure out why the Location is null
Apr 04 03:10:17 <jjt001> it was just working a few minutes back
Apr 04 03:10:22 <jjt001> i haven't even changed the code
Apr 04 03:10:33 <michaelnovakjr> anything with your network?
Apr 04 03:10:44 <jjt001> it shouldn't be a network problem
Apr 04 03:10:46 <jjt001> but no
Apr 04 03:11:07 <michaelnovakjr> i noticed some platforms throw exceptions if it panics on the network connection
Apr 04 03:11:21 <jjt001> i have all the privileges set to access the gps service
Apr 04 03:11:33 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr: yeah, i've seen that happen
Apr 04 03:11:47 <michaelnovakjr> hmmm, my app is going to be using gps services but i haven't coded that yet
Apr 04 03:11:53 <michaelnovakjr> its more of a part 2 feature
Apr 04 03:12:09 <michaelnovakjr> i have only briefly looked at the location class
Apr 04 03:12:14 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr: the deadline's fast approaching
Apr 04 03:12:34 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i am not going to put the gps functionality in the challenge
Apr 04 03:12:49 <michaelnovakjr> its not 100% necessary, its just an extra feature
Apr 04 03:16:16 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr: got it to work
Apr 04 03:16:23 <michaelnovakjr> what was it?
Apr 04 03:16:23 <jjt001> i just restarted eclipse
Apr 04 03:16:43 <michaelnovakjr> ah, its always good to try the simple stuff
Apr 04 03:16:44 <jjt001> seems like multiple instances of the emulator were running
Apr 04 03:16:52 <michaelnovakjr> grrr... emulator!
Apr 04 03:16:54 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr: exactly
Apr 04 03:17:13 <michaelnovakjr> i really hope we can test on real devices and debug on machines when the time comes
Apr 04 03:17:16 <jjt001> michaelnovakjr: it definitely needs to be improved soon
Apr 04 03:17:28 <michaelnovakjr> its the one thing i like about visual studio and win mobile
Apr 04 03:17:34 <michaelnovakjr> debugging on the phone is great
Apr 04 03:17:42 <jjt001> android phones are supposed to be out by Jul 08
Apr 04 03:17:50 <jjt001> definitely
Apr 04 03:17:50 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Apr 04 03:18:07 <michaelnovakjr> i am still having the wishful thinking of being able to install android on my current phone
Apr 04 03:18:39 <jjt001> some guys have actually managed to that
Apr 04 03:18:58 <jjt001> they posted a video on youtube
Apr 04 03:19:16 <michaelnovakjr> its real too?
Apr 04 03:19:22 <jjt001> yep
Apr 04 03:19:29 <michaelnovakjr> my friend made a fluke video of iphone software on a zune
Apr 04 03:19:36 <jjt001> it's definitely not an easy task, however
Apr 04 03:19:36 <michaelnovakjr> it was pretty funny
Apr 04 03:19:53 <jjt001> ya there's a lot of those out there
Apr 04 03:20:30 <jjt001> i have to go
Apr 04 03:20:49 <jjt001> goodnight to all
Apr 04 03:53:44 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: you will not be able to, so just give up :)
Apr 04 03:53:58 <michaelnovakjr> able to what?
Apr 04 03:54:06 <jasta> the best we could hope for are reference handsets, which hey, google might let us have access to some if we win the first round.
Apr 04 03:54:22 <michaelnovakjr> oh yea, the instlal
Apr 04 03:54:38 <jasta> which they might, actually
Apr 04 03:54:57 <jasta> it would not seem that impractical to give out 50 reference handsets, though i still doubt that they wil
Apr 04 03:55:01 <jasta> l
Apr 04 03:55:07 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 04 03:55:17 <michaelnovakjr> service...
Apr 04 03:55:42 <michaelnovakjr> i like the phone i have now
Apr 04 03:55:58 <michaelnovakjr> except for battery life, it does everything i need
Apr 04 03:56:08 <jasta> i personally would love a reference handset, but i wouldn't count on it :)
Apr 04 03:56:18 <michaelnovakjr> haha, same here
Apr 04 03:57:00 <michaelnovakjr> i still think the handset debugging is a must
Apr 04 03:57:32 <michaelnovakjr> but we need a way to be able to test multiple platforms without having multiple cell accounts
Apr 04 03:57:41 <michaelnovakjr> like gain network access via usb
Apr 04 03:57:46 <michaelnovakjr> during debugging
Apr 04 03:58:21 <jasta> i disagree that real handsets are necessary for development or debugging.
Apr 04 03:58:29 <jasta> they're nice, but certainly not required.
Apr 04 03:59:13 <michaelnovakjr> i feel the emulator doesn't give you all the possible environmental variables that are needed for testing
Apr 04 03:59:24 <jasta> such as?
Apr 04 03:59:28 <michaelnovakjr> or i should say thorough testing
Apr 04 03:59:35 <michaelnovakjr> one is power consumption
Apr 04 03:59:40 <michaelnovakjr> that is the biggest one for me
Apr 04 03:59:42 <jasta> the only want i have is an accurate simulation of the battery.
Apr 04 03:59:57 <jasta> though it would be easier for google to simply add that as a feature than give anyone a handset.
Apr 04 04:00:10 <michaelnovakjr> but how accurate could you make such a feature
Apr 04 04:00:20 <jasta> you could model a battery very accurately, actually.
Apr 04 04:00:23 <jasta> it's been done before, in fact.
Apr 04 04:00:31 <michaelnovakjr> for mobile devices?
Apr 04 04:00:39 <jasta> what does that matter?
Apr 04 04:00:47 <michaelnovakjr> just curious
Apr 04 04:00:49 <jasta> there is not that much variety in battery technology.
Apr 04 04:00:57 <michaelnovakjr> i hadn't done much research on it
Apr 04 04:01:31 <jasta> you know that most battery level indicators are an estimation, right?
Apr 04 04:01:41 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Apr 04 04:02:04 <jasta> so how is it hard to imagine simulating the battery entirelY?
Apr 04 04:02:31 <jasta> all that would be required would be a good model for how much power certain chips and screens use.
Apr 04 04:02:42 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 04 04:02:42 <jasta> which would be easy to produce with a thorough test.
Apr 04 04:03:03 <michaelnovakjr> it would be a nice feature
Apr 04 04:03:11 <jasta> yes, though it's unlikely to ever happen :)
Apr 04 04:03:22 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 04 04:03:38 <jasta> truly, the main reason i'd want a reference handset is so that i could force myself to really use my app.
Apr 04 04:03:49 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 04 04:03:51 <jasta> and thus hope to discover usability problems with it
Apr 04 04:04:05 <michaelnovakjr> i have my application running on win mobile... so i can see what daily usage is like
Apr 04 04:04:09 <jasta> but i could just as well do that with the emulator, it's just more difficult to conjure up the motivation
Apr 04 04:04:15 <michaelnovakjr> you find out quite a bit about the application that way
Apr 04 04:04:35 <michaelnovakjr> it doesn't obviously do anything for other platforms
Apr 04 04:04:50 <michaelnovakjr> but i still get an idea for the optimization that i need to work on
Apr 04 04:06:54 <michaelnovakjr> i'll be back in a few... need to stretch
Apr 04 04:18:22 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, do you use subActivities?
Apr 04 04:20:58 <jasta> not currently, though i suspect i will want to take advantage of them when my playlist manager gets more sophisticated.
Apr 04 04:21:21 <michaelnovakjr> i am entertaining the idea as well of implementing them
Apr 04 05:01:40 <jasta> hmm, are MediaPlayer instances not re-usable?
Apr 04 05:02:10 <michaelnovakjr> mediaplayer isn't all that stable is it?
Apr 04 05:02:16 <jasta> no, not really
Apr 04 05:02:19 <michaelnovakjr> that is the impression i get
Apr 04 05:02:34 <jasta> it's implementation is counter-intuitive, at the very least.
Apr 04 05:02:59 <jasta> oh i guess i have to call reset()
Apr 04 05:21:49 <muthu> mediaplayer is so buggy
Apr 04 05:25:39 <duey> maybe an intern did it
Apr 04 05:26:22 <duey> emulator takes long time to load :(
Apr 04 05:27:34 <duey> they released a new api :'(?
Apr 04 05:29:58 <muthu> really?
Apr 04 05:31:40 <duey> not really
Apr 04 05:31:41 <duey> just 'd'
Apr 04 05:34:19 <f00f-> you kidding?
Apr 04 05:34:23 <f00f-> interns do the best work
Apr 04 05:34:36 <duey> lol
Apr 04 05:34:40 <duey> most of them
Apr 04 05:34:47 <f00f-> :S
Apr 04 05:34:54 <duey> anyway how do you tell what sdk version you got
Apr 04 05:39:38 <duey> bugger think im running rc14
Apr 04 05:52:49 <muthu> m5-rc15 is the latest
Apr 04 05:55:06 <f00f-> rc14 is good enough
Apr 04 05:57:03 <romainguy> rc15 just fixes security bugs
Apr 04 05:57:48 <f00f-> which any decent OS should have to keep its developers busy
Apr 04 05:58:49 <romainguy> they were in native image decoding libraries if I remember correctly
Apr 04 05:59:14 <f00f-> was it a buffer overflow?
Apr 04 05:59:25 <romainguy> I don't remember
Apr 04 06:00:33 <sandesh> hello everybod
Apr 04 06:00:52 <sandesh> can anyone help me on overlays
Apr 04 06:01:33 <f00f-> they are slow, and ninepatch won't work. what's up?
Apr 04 06:01:53 <romainguy> why wouldn't ninepatches work?
Apr 04 06:02:50 <zhobbs> sandesh: what's the prob?
Apr 04 06:03:12 <sandesh> i am getting a direction where my vehicle is tracking
Apr 04 06:03:19 <f00f-> romainguy: on a map? i can't get it to activate. shouldn't it just work?
Apr 04 06:03:23 <sandesh> but i am not getting how to mark
Apr 04 06:03:25 <f00f-> all i see is a black border
Apr 04 06:03:47 <f00f-> (on the image overlay itself)
Apr 04 06:03:50 <romainguy> if you give the ninepatch drawable the proper bounds there's no reason why it wouldn't work
Apr 04 06:04:36 <sandesh> zhobbs:
Apr 04 06:05:29 <zhobbs> sandesh: you have to create an Overlay at the location
Apr 04 06:06:04 <sandesh> zhobbs i created
Apr 04 06:06:11 <sandesh> but its giving null pointe
Apr 04 06:06:58 <zhobbs> they you're doing something wrong...debug and figure out why you're getting the NPE
Apr 04 06:07:12 <zhobbs> s/they/then
Apr 04 06:08:01 <sandesh> its not giving null pointer now
Apr 04 06:08:05 <sandesh> zhobbs
Apr 04 06:08:18 <sandesh> its just track not giving overlay
Apr 04 06:08:24 <sandesh> can u please see d code
Apr 04 06:08:45 <sandesh> n tell how to draw n track
Apr 04 06:11:29 <sandesh> zhobbs
Apr 04 06:12:06 <zhobbs> is the code in pastebin or something?
Apr 04 06:15:10 <sandesh> no how do i do it
Apr 04 06:15:16 <f00f-> rofl
Apr 04 06:15:26 <zhobbs> hehe
Apr 04 06:16:11 <sandesh> ok i have send in pastebin
Apr 04 06:16:14 <sandesh> Zhobbs
Apr 04 06:16:56 <sandesh> hello Zhobbs
Apr 04 06:17:01 <sandesh> got it
Apr 04 06:18:19 <sandesh> zhobbs:u there
Apr 04 06:18:28 <zhobbs> yeah
Apr 04 06:19:20 <f00f-> hahaha wtf i forgot that i have to initialize each object in the array
Apr 04 06:19:24 <f00f-> NPE owned me
Apr 04 06:19:40 <sandesh> i have patebin it
Apr 04 06:19:45 <sandesh> zhobbs:
Apr 04 06:20:02 <zhobbs> sandesh: ok...I'm going through every pastebin page trying to find it...
Apr 04 06:20:08 <sandesh> http://pastebin.com/d7baa7fa4
Apr 04 06:20:13 <sandesh> see this
Apr 04 06:20:20 <sandesh> zhobbs
Apr 04 06:22:12 <zhobbs> ok, so what's the question?
Apr 04 06:23:21 <sandesh> i am not gettin a track
Apr 04 06:23:30 <sandesh> i mean am not drawing it
Apr 04 06:23:39 <sandesh> it just moves on
Apr 04 06:23:44 <sandesh> without marking
Apr 04 06:25:15 <zhobbs> so it should draw points for every point that you were at when you pressed "p" I guess?
Apr 04 06:25:49 <sandesh> no
Apr 04 06:25:53 <sandesh> its doing tht
Apr 04 06:25:55 <sandesh> already
Apr 04 06:26:13 <sandesh> i just want to draw it automatically
Apr 04 06:26:40 <zhobbs> the code you have there is only drawing the current point plus the points in "path"
Apr 04 06:26:51 <sandesh> http://www.anddev.org/andnav_-_android_map-routing-system-t740.html
Apr 04 06:27:05 <sandesh> see this screencast i want to do similar things
Apr 04 06:27:28 <sandesh> can u tell me how to draw when it moves
Apr 04 06:30:35 <f00f-> oh no you dont
Apr 04 06:30:38 <f00f-> wtf
Apr 04 06:30:50 <f00f-> these fsckers put a coutndown clock up there?!
Apr 04 06:30:59 <f00f-> that does *not* help
Apr 04 06:31:08 <zhobbs> :)
Apr 04 06:31:34 <zhobbs> hope you don't like sleeping
Apr 04 06:31:59 <f00f-> well i guess now i'm neutral on that
Apr 04 06:32:28 <sandesh> zhobbs:
Apr 04 06:32:31 <sandesh> wat happen
Apr 04 06:33:12 <zhobbs> sorry sandesh, not familiar with plusminus's app there.
Apr 04 06:33:30 <sandesh> ok but atleast how to  draw
Apr 04 06:44:55 <Hai-Fai> sandesh: I'm too lazy to read all of your writings, what exactly you want from that andnav in your app?
Apr 04 06:45:22 <sandesh> hey hai fai i just want to mark the track
Apr 04 06:45:34 <sandesh> i m having a gps provider
Apr 04 06:45:40 <Hai-Fai> that routing part? "How to get from point a to b"?
Apr 04 06:45:51 <sandesh> my track is just moving without drawing
Apr 04 06:46:00 <sandesh> no not routing
Apr 04 06:46:16 <sandesh> i am fetching my data from my file
Apr 04 06:46:36 <Hai-Fai> so you want somekind of "x color line" which shows your route?
Apr 04 06:46:43 <sandesh> yes
Apr 04 06:46:46 <sandesh> right
Apr 04 06:47:28 <sandesh> http://pastebin.com/d7baa7fa4
Apr 04 06:47:47 <sandesh> here my code
Apr 04 06:48:19 <Hai-Fai> depends on how you have done your app.. there's 3 ways to create that mapview, and only 1 of 'em works well with that route drawing thing.. might be, that you have to change your app a bit [or a lot.. :)], but basically, it's not very hard if you're familiar with android code already
Apr 04 06:50:07 <sandesh> k
Apr 04 06:51:06 <sandesh> see the prob with me is tht when i call my st point function it creates the strt point
Apr 04 06:51:26 <sandesh> and when i click nxt point  it draws the track
Apr 04 06:51:33 <Hai-Fai> unfortenately I have to go now.. but if you wait, I'll be back in 3 hrs.. then I might help you, if anyone else doesn't
Apr 04 06:51:34 <sandesh> thts workin fine
Apr 04 06:51:35 <sandesh> but
Apr 04 06:51:57 <Hai-Fai> oh, so drawing works somehow already?
Apr 04 06:52:02 <sandesh> ya
Apr 04 06:52:10 <Hai-Fai> k, then it wont be a prob..
Apr 04 06:52:20 <Hai-Fai> but, I really have to go in 1minute.. =/
Apr 04 06:52:35 <Hai-Fai> I'm on my underwear and about to late from train =)
Apr 04 06:52:38 <sandesh> i tried to call tht function with in it self thn it strted givin stack overflow
Apr 04 06:52:55 <Hai-Fai> cu in few hours or so
Apr 04 06:52:55 <Hai-Fai> bye
Apr 04 06:53:05 <sandesh> ok will be waitn fr u
Apr 04 06:58:33 <duey> I am doing TextView.setText() but its not updating the view?
Apr 04 06:59:29 <romainguy> shouldn't happen :)
Apr 04 06:59:55 <duey> hmmm
Apr 04 07:00:23 <duey> it works the first time i call setText()
Apr 04 07:06:16 <duey> nm
Apr 04 07:06:18 <duey> i screwed it up
Apr 04 07:07:09 <duey> so you cant update a view from a different thread
Apr 04 07:10:19 <duey> ugh
Apr 04 07:12:18 <duey> so I have something uploading data to a server and I want to update a textview with the status of the upload
Apr 04 07:12:38 <duey> without blocking the cancel button on the viewable activity
Apr 04 07:13:59 <zhobbs> duey: use a Handler
Apr 04 07:15:49 <zhobbs> duey: http://www.helloandroid.com/node/243
Apr 04 07:17:17 <duey> cool
Apr 04 07:17:18 <duey> thanks
Apr 04 07:17:21 <romainguy> duey: so you cant update a view from a different thread << no you can't
Apr 04 07:17:28 <romainguy> at least not without using a Handler
Apr 04 07:17:35 <duey> yeah ill use a handler
Apr 04 07:17:38 <romainguy> or even simpler, View.post(Runnable)
Apr 04 07:19:44 <duey> hmm
Apr 04 07:19:47 <duey> cool
Apr 04 07:19:51 <duey> i will try that
Apr 04 07:20:50 <zhobbs> or Activity.runOnUIThread(Runnable)
Apr 04 07:22:07 <romainguy> zhobbs: in this case runOnUiThread is useless since duey knows he's not on the UI thread
Apr 04 07:22:34 <rhett> hey romainguy, I saw you in the google groups
Apr 04 07:22:44 <davidw> 'morning
Apr 04 07:22:54 <rhett> boy, my app looks pretty ugly.  Does anyone have examples of decent looking apps?
Apr 04 07:22:59 <rhett> I really need a designer
Apr 04 07:23:01 <duey> stupid mailing list rick rolled me
Apr 04 07:23:06 <zhobbs> romainguy: Oh...I misinterpreted what runOnUIThread does I think
Apr 04 07:23:47 <romainguy> runOnUiThread just does this:
Apr 04 07:23:52 <romainguy> if (current thread == ui thread)
Apr 04 07:23:54 <romainguy>   runnable.run();
Apr 04 07:23:56 <romainguy> else
Apr 04 07:24:06 <romainguy>   aView.post(runnable)
Apr 04 07:24:36 <zhobbs> so it would work, but if you know it's not UI thread it'd be better to use Activity.getContentView.post() ?
Apr 04 07:25:07 <romainguy> it's not better, it's just that runOnUiThread would give you nothing you cannot do yourself
Apr 04 07:25:08 <zhobbs> oh, getContentView doesn't exist
Apr 04 07:25:20 <romainguy> getWindow().getDecorView()
Apr 04 07:25:31 <zhobbs> Ah
Apr 04 07:25:43 <romainguy> (that's what runOnUiThread uses and that's why the activity must be shown on screen for it to work)
Apr 04 07:26:10 <romainguy> View.post() needs the View to be shown too (by shown, understand "attached to a window")
Apr 04 07:31:35 <rhett> hey, does anyone know if our app has to support multiple resolutions or what?
Apr 04 07:31:50 <rhett> it should work on all devices that run android?
Apr 04 07:31:56 <zhobbs> rhett: sounds like the judges will be using HVGA-P
Apr 04 07:32:23 <rhett> is that it zhobbs?
Apr 04 07:33:24 <zhobbs> that's my understanding...but you might want to check the android-challege list for confirmation
Apr 04 07:33:36 <rhett> thanks zhobbs
Apr 04 07:33:47 <rhett> does anyone have screenshots of some good looking android apps for insipiration?
Apr 04 07:34:25 <duey> just use native widgets
Apr 04 07:34:37 <duey> can't stand people who theme there own guis
Apr 04 07:34:45 <rhett> duey, but I just have a black background, it it looks kind of like ass
Apr 04 07:35:06 <duey> you mean the black bg with lines
Apr 04 07:35:09 <duey> or pure black
Apr 04 07:35:16 <rhett> well, i changed it to pure black a tleast
Apr 04 07:35:24 <duey> put it back to default :|
Apr 04 07:35:40 <rhett> i mean, all the android apps I've seen that look that way kinda look crappy
Apr 04 07:35:45 <rhett> the iphone apps just look so much nicer
Apr 04 07:35:56 <rhett> you like the lines, duey?
Apr 04 07:36:01 <duey> sure
Apr 04 07:36:07 <duey> i think the default gui widgets look great
Apr 04 07:36:08 <romainguy> rhett: keep your UI simple, use the default theme, that's your best bet
Apr 04 07:36:21 <duey> and it is nice for your users to
Apr 04 07:36:23 <romainguy> there's a team of professional UI designers constantly improving the UI
Apr 04 07:36:35 <duey> because they get used to the consistant ui
Apr 04 07:36:41 <romainguy> trying to stray away from the default widgets now might penalize your application later on when the UI is refreshed
Apr 04 07:36:49 <romainguy> it also builds consistency across applications
Apr 04 07:37:03 <f00f-> romainguy: can i request that the RadioButtons not look like omelettes? :)
Apr 04 07:37:12 <rhett> oh, the widgets will wind up looking nicer?
Apr 04 07:37:24 <romainguy> rhett: I didn't say "nicer"
Apr 04 07:37:27 <duey> rhett, are you a hardcore programmer?
Apr 04 07:37:33 <romainguy> I said there is ongoing work on the design
Apr 04 07:37:44 <romainguy> obviously the "nicer" part is very personal  :)
Apr 04 07:37:54 <duey> programmers don't generally know what good ui looks like imo.
Apr 04 07:38:05 <duey> some do
Apr 04 07:38:07 <rhett> yeah, 2 of us are programmers on this one
Apr 04 07:38:11 <romainguy> to give you an example, the striped background is gone in the next SDK
Apr 04 07:38:19 <duey> aw
Apr 04 07:38:21 <duey> i like it
Apr 04 07:38:24 <rhett> oh how do ou know romainguy?
Apr 04 07:38:29 <duey> lol
Apr 04 07:38:36 <romainguy> rhett: because I work on the UI toolkit at Google :)
Apr 04 07:38:40 <duey> hahaha
Apr 04 07:38:41 <f00f-> is the glowing/faded circle effect also gone?
Apr 04 07:38:49 <romainguy> f00f-: yes
Apr 04 07:39:01 <romainguy> (I actually grew to like that effect)
Apr 04 07:39:03 <duey> the spinners are interesting
Apr 04 07:39:11 <muthu> thats good new.. lot of people hate that stripes
Apr 04 07:39:14 <romainguy> spinners will be different in the next SDK
Apr 04 07:39:14 <f00f-> me too
Apr 04 07:39:30 <romainguy> there were two reasons for removing the stripes
Apr 04 07:39:47 <romainguy> first, it made the screen look a bit too dim on the edges on actual hardware
Apr 04 07:39:58 <rhett> oh, well, i guess I'll believe you know what you're talking about romainguy :)
Apr 04 07:40:02 <romainguy> and it was also a source of slowdown during fast scrolling
Apr 04 07:40:08 <romainguy> rhett: :)
Apr 04 07:40:49 <zhobbs> romainguy: so the new background is solid?
Apr 04 07:41:46 <romainguy> yes
Apr 04 07:41:51 <romainguy> #FF191919
Apr 04 07:42:54 <zhobbs> is simple_list_item changing?
Apr 04 07:43:08 <rhett> romainguy, so you don't think there will be much weight in the judging on adding nice icons, and background graphics, etc.?
Apr 04 07:43:30 <jtoy> anyone working with cookies on android?
Apr 04 07:43:35 <romainguy> rhett: To tell the truth, I have absolutely no idea
Apr 04 07:43:41 <jerkface03> i hope not
Apr 04 07:43:46 <jerkface03> my submission looks like dog shit
Apr 04 07:43:47 <romainguy> zhobbs: no, why would it change?
Apr 04 07:44:01 <zhobbs> romainguy: just wondering
Apr 04 07:44:11 <muthu> the simple_list_item is plain blank
Apr 04 07:44:18 <duey> stupid eclipse been shitting out on me all afternoon
Apr 04 07:45:26 <muthu> but as the name suggests, its really really simple
Apr 04 07:47:06 <rhett> http://code.google.com/android/adc_faq.html point 3 is what worries me
Apr 04 07:47:18 <romainguy> muthu: well it provides what most lists are made of: a line of text :)
Apr 04 07:48:15 <zhobbs> rhett: point 3?
Apr 04 07:48:37 <muthu> yeah romain i can see that :)
Apr 04 07:48:54 <rhett> sorry, of how things will be judged: "polish and appeal"
Apr 04 07:48:58 <muthu> there's no point 3.. which one rhett?
Apr 04 07:49:43 <muthu> Polish and Appeal
Apr 04 07:49:44 <muthu>     Is the application easy to use and aesthetically appealing?
Apr 04 07:50:10 <muthu> i would say its more from a layout perspective
Apr 04 07:50:31 <zhobbs> I hear a lot of people talk about how that point shouldn't be valid, but I think it's important
Apr 04 07:51:07 <rhett> yeah, we spent a lot of time thinking about our layout, and I think our site is pretty nice to use
Apr 04 07:51:08 <duey> well its probably just as equal as the other points
Apr 04 07:51:13 <rhett> haha "site"
Apr 04 07:51:26 <rhett> i keep thinking of this as a web app
Apr 04 07:51:27 <muthu> ease of use is important
Apr 04 07:52:31 <jtoy> I noticed that these classes still work: org.apache.commons.httpclient.HttpClient;
Apr 04 07:52:43 <jtoy> as opposed to org.apache.http
Apr 04 07:54:30 <duey> yeah im using commons
Apr 04 07:55:12 <jtoy> there doesnt seem to be too much good documentation on using the newer api, is it ok to submit code using the commons.* stuff?
Apr 04 07:55:28 <duey> not sure
Apr 04 07:55:44 <duey> there was no docs on android.http or w/e it was so i didnt use it
Apr 04 07:56:44 <jtoy> the org.apache.http stuff seems to be beta still also
Apr 04 07:56:46 <jtoy> so that doesnt help
Apr 04 07:57:10 <duey> its not beta...
Apr 04 07:57:18 <duey> apache commons is stable as
Apr 04 07:57:30 <duey> http://hc.apache.org/httpclient-3.x/
Apr 04 07:58:16 <jtoy> I am saying org.apache.commons is stable, but the org.apache.http is beta
Apr 04 07:58:52 <duey> i think they are the same thing
Apr 04 07:59:12 <duey> oh maybe not
Apr 04 07:59:24 <jtoy> the api is totally different it seems
Apr 04 08:00:03 <duey> na its pretty much the same
Apr 04 08:00:41 <jtoy> so what is the proper class to use insetad of org.apache.commons.httpclient.cookie   ?
Apr 04 08:00:44 <jtoy> for example?
Apr 04 08:01:44 <duey> http://code.google.com/android/reference/org/apache/http/cookie/Cookie.html
Apr 04 08:02:00 <duey> they have just moved the packages around by the looks
Apr 04 08:04:35 <jtoy> hmm, how do you find ther correspinding class? I cant find these one either: org.apache.http.httpclient.HttpClient;
Apr 04 08:06:05 <jtoy> probably this one: org.apache.http.HttpClientConnection
Apr 04 08:08:00 <duey> search
Apr 04 08:08:23 <duey> http://code.google.com/android/reference/org/apache/http/client/HttpClient.html
Apr 04 08:09:02 <jtoy> the api is pretty different
Apr 04 08:09:32 <jtoy> doesnt seem like import search and replace will work, a bunch of code changes, that sucks
Apr 04 08:12:04 <duey> so whenever there is a runtime exception in my app eclipse refuses to run
Apr 04 08:12:51 <jtoy> duey: i switched to the commandline since ecplipse sucks
Apr 04 08:13:11 <jerkface03> eclipse isn't too bad
Apr 04 08:13:23 <jerkface03> i only have to close it down and restart it maybe 5 times during a day of development?
Apr 04 08:13:35 <jerkface03> it's no netbeans, but it's ok
Apr 04 08:13:58 <romainguy> IntelliJ ftw ^^
Apr 04 08:14:57 <jtoy> romainguy: is it ok to use the org.apache.commons.* when submitting for the m5 version?
Apr 04 08:15:04 <romainguy> I have no idea
Apr 04 08:15:22 <duey> jtoy, they don't see your code
Apr 04 08:15:25 <duey> so don't worry about it
Apr 04 08:15:33 <duey> you can select the sdk version
Apr 04 08:15:49 <jtoy> it compiles, so i guess that means google has kept those libraries for now even though the docs says its gone
Apr 04 08:16:25 <jtoy> im just not sure why my code compiles and runs on m5 if the docs say org.apache.commons is deprecated
Apr 04 08:16:43 <romainguy> deprecated just means you should stop using this API
Apr 04 08:16:50 <romainguy> it does not mean it does not compile or does not work
Apr 04 08:17:02 <romainguy> but expect deprecated APIs to disappear before 1.0
Apr 04 08:17:17 <jtoy> ok, so I will use it to submit, but will upgrade the code later once there are better docs
Apr 04 08:17:30 <jtoy> thx
Apr 04 08:18:37 <duey> where do they say its depreciated?
Apr 04 08:19:17 <jtoy> http://code.google.com/android/migrating/m3-to-m5/changes.html
Apr 04 08:20:19 <duey> gay
Apr 04 08:20:22 <duey> guess i can switch
Apr 04 08:21:15 <muthu> rhett: where's your site?
Apr 04 08:21:31 <jtoy> dumb java question, can I tell from javac or form my installed java if a class implements a certain interface?
Apr 04 08:22:00 <jtoy> specifically I see that some versions of org.apache.commons.httpclient.Cookie implement serializable, and I want to know if the m5 version implements it
Apr 04 08:23:40 <romainguy> jtoy: you can use reflection for that
Apr 04 08:24:58 <jerkface03> romainguy: how much slower would you say using reflections to call a methos vs normally calling a method?
Apr 04 08:25:01 <jerkface03> five fold?
Apr 04 08:25:29 <romainguy> I don't remember the exact number
Apr 04 08:25:37 <romainguy> but it's probably a lot more than that
Apr 04 08:25:44 <jerkface03> kk
Apr 04 08:26:11 <romainguy> you can easily test it though
Apr 04 08:26:43 <jerkface03> ya i will, after i hand in my submission tonight
Apr 04 08:27:33 <duey> early hand in?
Apr 04 08:27:44 <jerkface03> well, the assignment was done for a class
Apr 04 08:27:50 <duey> ah
Apr 04 08:27:54 <jerkface03> and although it's missing some things i won't have time to work on it anymore
Apr 04 08:28:03 <jerkface03> so today is the presentation, and after teh presentation im going to chuck in it
Apr 04 08:28:09 <jerkface03> and focus on the rest of my finals
Apr 04 08:28:13 <duey> mines my honours project
Apr 04 08:28:20 <duey> so if i screw it up
Apr 04 08:28:22 <duey> i dont get honours
Apr 04 08:28:23 <duey> :'(
Apr 04 08:28:31 <jerkface03> what are you making?
Apr 04 08:28:45 <duey> OCR on photos and then translating them into another language
Apr 04 08:29:01 <jerkface03> nice
Apr 04 08:29:09 <jerkface03> all local or do you use any remote resources?
Apr 04 08:29:10 <jtoy> my app is really ugly, hope that doesnt matter
Apr 04 08:29:17 <duey> remote for now
Apr 04 08:29:30 <duey> i don't intend on using local translation
Apr 04 08:29:37 <duey> maybe semi local ocr
Apr 04 08:29:55 <duey> do real time overlays of text found in photos
Apr 04 08:30:04 * davidw uses reflection a lot in Hecl, and... yeah, some stuff is pokey, but it's not that bad
Apr 04 08:30:05 <duey> display bounding boxes around the text as you move the camera
Apr 04 08:30:21 <duey> so you can take the best pic for the ocr process
Apr 04 08:30:31 <romainguy> davidw: depends on what you're doing
Apr 04 08:30:32 <jerkface03> that'd be neat
Apr 04 08:30:43 <jerkface03> you do alot of work with OCR, do you?
Apr 04 08:30:55 <davidw> romainguy, it's not used in the core, but to access the android api's
Apr 04 08:31:00 <duey> ~I am doing AI
Apr 04 08:31:01 <infobot> it is my pleasure to meet you, doing AI
Apr 04 08:31:06 <duey> wtf
Apr 04 08:31:09 <romainguy> davidw: just remember you haven't tried on real hardware yet ;-)
Apr 04 08:31:25 <duey> wtf is this bot
Apr 04 08:31:30 <davidw> seeing as how I didn't want to try and write API's for everything
Apr 04 08:31:36 <davidw> romainguy, so send me some:-)
Apr 04 08:31:53 <romainguy> be patient :p
Apr 04 08:32:01 <jerkface03> duey: i didn't know ai encompassed ocr
Apr 04 08:32:08 <davidw> romainguy, hecl without reflection runs ok, if not fast, on my nokia 3100, so I'm assuming that Hecl itself will whiz along quite nicely on android hardware
Apr 04 08:32:13 <duey> ai is a big field
Apr 04 08:32:16 <jerkface03> i have a fat ai book here that ive been planning to get to
Apr 04 08:32:28 <duey> ocr uses machine learning
Apr 04 08:32:37 <duey> neural networks etc
Apr 04 08:32:39 <romainguy> davidw: again, it depends on how reflection is used
Apr 04 08:32:50 <jerkface03> werd
Apr 04 08:32:56 <romainguy> if reflection ends up being used in layout or drawing code paths, it's bad ^^
Apr 04 08:36:02 <davidw> so is that just a java thing or is it a dex thing?
Apr 04 08:36:17 * davidw has never really looked into reflection much because it simply doesn't exist on java me
Apr 04 08:36:18 <romainguy> a mix of both
Apr 04 08:36:37 <romainguy> reflection is a lot less painful on Java SE
Apr 04 08:36:42 <romainguy> Hotspot helps a lot
Apr 04 08:36:57 <davidw> I guess one thing I might do for common api's is to "pre reflect" them into Hecl commands
Apr 04 08:47:57 <davidw> not until after the contest though
Apr 04 08:50:33 <duey> hmm
Apr 04 08:50:37 <duey> so whats up with charsets
Apr 04 08:50:45 <duey> I am downloading stuff from the internets and its all funky
Apr 04 09:11:07 <duey> does android not support chinese?
Apr 04 09:26:40 <sandesh> hey i wanna draw route when it is tracking
Apr 04 11:55:19 <acsia> hello
Apr 04 11:55:44 <acsia> quick poll, what music do you listen to when programming android?
Apr 04 11:56:01 <visit0r> random
Apr 04 11:56:53 <acsia> I remember reading Bernard Weber, and in each book he puts the music he listened to while writing the book
Apr 04 11:56:56 <acsia> quite a good concet
Apr 04 11:56:58 <acsia> concept
Apr 04 11:57:19 <acsia> maybe the next source control system should integrate last.fm
Apr 04 11:57:22 <acsia> or something
Apr 04 11:57:34 <acsia> like web 2 source control system and they you can trend
Apr 04 11:57:50 <acsia> best music to listen to while programming ....
Apr 04 11:57:52 <acsia> ha
Apr 04 12:02:25 <davidw> Fishbone
Apr 04 12:02:38 <davidw> Salsa is pretty good too
Apr 04 12:49:48 <chomchom> recently I've been trying the no music approach, none what so ever. It's working pretty good. Usually I try for something progressive without any vocals though
Apr 04 13:14:43 <davidw> jeez, is it really friday?
Apr 04 14:43:13 <acsia> is resolveContentProvider broken?
Apr 04 14:44:26 <sandesh> anyone in maps
Apr 04 14:56:21 * davidw wonders if anyone has ideas on what would make a nice countdown widget
Apr 04 15:14:39 <acsia> a geolocalized New years countdown
Apr 04 15:15:00 <davidw> mmm I mean what widget to use
Apr 04 15:19:33 <acsia> maybe a custom progressdialog
Apr 04 15:21:48 <davidw> mmmm
Apr 04 15:37:22 <jasta> crap
Apr 04 15:37:32 <jasta> i broke my glasses this morning
Apr 04 15:37:36 <jasta> now i have to go wrestle with my contacts
Apr 04 15:37:41 <jasta> it still takes me over a half hour to get them in
Apr 04 15:37:43 <michaelnovakjr> ouch. i hate when that happens
Apr 04 15:48:59 <davidw> ew
Apr 04 16:34:04 <acsia> geI am having trouble with getResourcesForApplication
Apr 04 16:34:04 <acsia> anybody can help?
Apr 04 16:41:10 <zhobbs> acsia: from PackageManager?
Apr 04 16:41:45 <acsia> yes
Apr 04 16:42:00 <acsia> I have a lot of trouble using the packagemanager
Apr 04 16:42:02 <zhobbs> last I checked PackageManager didn't work very well...seems like they haven't figured out the permissions issues yet
Apr 04 16:42:13 <acsia> arf...
Apr 04 16:42:23 <zhobbs> yeah, I know it didn't work in M3
Apr 04 16:42:26 <acsia> would there be some permission to add for now or does it just not work
Apr 04 16:42:51 <zhobbs> well, you might want to try installing the app in /system/app
Apr 04 16:43:13 <zhobbs> when I was messing with packagemanager I had better results if the apk was in /system/app instead of /data/app
Apr 04 16:43:26 <zhobbs> still couldn't really get it to work though
Apr 04 16:43:30 <acsia> ok ok...
Apr 04 16:43:38 <zhobbs> good luck, I gotta go
Apr 04 16:43:40 <acsia> this is a bit of a pain
Apr 04 16:43:42 <acsia> thx
Apr 04 17:09:44 <jasta> phew, finally got my contacts in :)
Apr 04 17:10:05 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 04 17:10:23 <jasta> or rather, got them in and went to work :)
Apr 04 17:28:18 <acsia> anybody been playing with packageManager except zhobbs?
Apr 04 17:29:12 <jasta> no, sorry
Apr 04 17:29:25 <jasta> there are a lot of gotchas in Android, though, I will say that.
Apr 04 17:35:02 <romainguy_> acsia: what do you want to do?
Apr 04 17:36:31 <acsia> well I want to grab the meta-data from a provider within a different package
Apr 04 17:36:54 <acsia> or grab an XML via a resoure given by another package
Apr 04 17:36:58 <acsia> none seems to work
Apr 04 17:37:16 <jasta> why do you want to do that?
Apr 04 17:37:17 <acsia> returning null and I red that there some issues with permission so I am not sure if the problem is related
Apr 04 17:37:59 <acsia> well I have 2 applications with the same user id, and I need to gather information on the provider from one within the other
Apr 04 17:38:13 <acsia> so I can do dynamic class loading
Apr 04 17:39:00 <acsia> for instance ApplicationInfo appinfo = mPkgMgr
Apr 04 17:39:00 <acsia>                     .getApplicationInfo("my.package", 0); returns null
Apr 04 17:39:12 <jasta> hmm
Apr 04 17:40:09 <acsia> I tried several ways to get the metadata or xml via package manager and none seems to work
Apr 04 17:40:31 <acsia> some methods returns something and some others just null
Apr 04 17:40:38 <acsia> no error in logcat....
Apr 04 17:44:30 <acsia> for instance this does not work
Apr 04 17:44:31 <acsia> http://pastebin.com/m4da8d7b9
Apr 04 17:44:58 <acsia> I can get a list of providers but not the ProviderInfo
Apr 04 17:51:58 <acsia> I think I fund a bug in the documentation...
Apr 04 17:52:08 <acsia>  public abstract ProviderInfo  resolveContentProvider(String name, int flags)
Apr 04 17:52:17 <acsia> name should be authority afaik
Apr 04 17:53:05 <acsia> I think I am going mental... I need a break
Apr 04 17:55:16 <muthu> acsia :)
Apr 04 17:55:50 <muthu> acsia: you'll be allright.. dont worry ;)
Apr 04 18:21:46 * jasta pokes morrildl 
Apr 04 18:32:32 <bigodines> how do I add an icon into a specific position of MapView ?
Apr 04 18:34:01 <plusminus_> OverLay ?
Apr 04 18:35:10 <plusminus_> i.e.: http://www.anddev.org/the_friend_finder_-_mapactivity_using_gps_-_part_ii_-_ii-t92.html
Apr 04 18:45:39 <bigodines> plusminus_, tnx
Apr 04 19:43:32 <bigodines> plusminus_, nice tutorial you wrote there! congrats!
Apr 04 19:51:22 <quozzle> cheers mates
Apr 04 19:51:30 <quozzle> quick question:
Apr 04 19:52:00 <quozzle> i'm a little fuzzy on Notification - I'd like to fire one from a ProximityAlert - but the setProxAlert takes an Intent
Apr 04 19:52:29 <quozzle> and as far as i understand, needing an Intent means it will fire up a view and take focus?
Apr 04 19:52:49 <quozzle> how can I just set a notification (marquee in the top status bar etc) from a ProximityAlert?
Apr 04 19:57:31 <quozzle> hm, perhaps NotifyingService in API Demos is the general shape of what I need
Apr 04 20:15:50 <michaelnovakjr> anyone use audio alerts in their apps?
Apr 04 20:16:55 <Lede> i play rick roll when the user does something wrong
Apr 04 20:17:29 <michaelnovakjr> is that custom?
Apr 04 20:37:41 <Tomasso> hello, guys, is there any way to port a j2me application to android? I read there is some j2me implementation for android called MicroEmulator, but I cant find any link to download it. Also I tried loading a jar from the android emulator and I got error, any clues on that? or any docs on that?
Apr 04 20:43:46 <B0jangles> you can port anything you like
Apr 04 20:43:51 <B0jangles> but no, not directly
Apr 04 20:44:02 <B0jangles> I think somebody is working on a J2ME wrapper or something, I dunno
Apr 04 20:44:25 <michaelnovakjr> any reason not to just write it for android?
Apr 04 20:44:32 <michaelnovakjr> i am sure the performance would be better
Apr 04 20:46:18 <Tomasso> michaelnovakjr, the restriction is time :S
Apr 04 20:46:36 <michaelnovakjr> you mean for the challenge?
Apr 04 20:47:24 <Tomasso> no, its just a job we were required to do :S
Apr 04 20:47:47 <Tomasso> i dont know if they are going to the chanllenge with that..
Apr 04 20:47:56 <michaelnovakjr> but if android is not going to be released for a while what's the rush?
Apr 04 21:19:12 <B0jangles> is there documentation somewhere on how to make an apk file?
Apr 04 21:19:15 <B0jangles> can't seem to find it
Apr 04 21:19:57 <davidw> err... the tutorial/
Apr 04 21:20:11 * davidw has never really needed to remove an app... but how's it done?
Apr 04 21:20:33 <B0jangles> Dunno...I've only ever used Run As and Debug As...
Apr 04 21:22:46 <zhobbs> davidw: rm the apk file from /data/app
Apr 04 21:22:59 <davidw> really? man, tha'ts bogus:-)
Apr 04 21:23:34 <B0jangles> Can I just grab the .apk file from /data/app/ to turn in for the Google ADC?
Apr 04 21:23:58 <zhobbs> sure, or from your /bin folder in your project
Apr 04 21:24:20 <B0jangles> woh, look at that
Apr 04 21:24:22 <B0jangles> thanks
Apr 04 21:24:49 <zhobbs> or right click on project and hit Android -> export apk or something
Apr 04 21:25:32 <B0jangles> Excellent
Apr 04 21:26:06 <B0jangles> Can I change the filename at all, or is it meaningful in some way
Apr 04 21:26:07 <B0jangles> ?
Apr 04 21:28:05 <morrildl> davidw: why is that bogus?
Apr 04 21:30:47 <davidw> morrildl, it'd be convenient to be able to do adb remove Foobar, or do it from the phone api
Apr 04 21:31:03 <zhobbs> man, wish I could go to Google I/O...I'd like to go to some of those Android sessions
Apr 04 21:31:15 <davidw> yeah, would be fun:-/
Apr 04 21:31:51 <morrildl> davidw: adb shell rm /data/app/Whatever.apk
Apr 04 21:32:21 <morrildl> zhobbs, davidw: bummer :(
Apr 04 21:33:15 <davidw> yeah, well, you may have all the cool developer things in california, but here in innsbruck we're enjoying some lovely sleet/rain and days of rain...
Apr 04 21:33:44 <zhobbs> it's a trade-off :)
Apr 04 21:50:07 <B0jangles> hmm, I've changed @drawable/icon.png, but it's still coming up as the Android A...
Apr 04 21:50:14 <B0jangles> How do I change my app's icon?
Apr 04 21:50:23 <raidfive> try giving it a different name
Apr 04 21:50:37 <raidfive> it doesn't seem to recognize the change if you re-use the same name
Apr 04 21:50:43 <B0jangles> ahj
Apr 04 21:50:44 <B0jangles> ah
Apr 04 21:50:48 <B0jangles> okay, I'll try that
Apr 04 21:52:01 <B0jangles> Ah, that works
Apr 04 21:52:02 <B0jangles> thanks
Apr 04 21:54:42 <raidfive> no problem
Apr 04 21:55:06 <raidfive> dunno if that is a bug I should report or not ...
Apr 04 22:11:53 <davidw> I wish there were a nice task manager associated with thing
Apr 04 22:11:56 <davidw> the thing
Apr 04 22:21:47 <jasta> with android?  why?
Apr 04 22:24:18 <davidw> I'm having troubles with runaway threads:-)
Apr 04 22:24:25 <romainguy_> davidw: it's called DDMS
Apr 04 22:24:29 <jasta> then use DDMS
Apr 04 22:24:45 <jasta> it can be used from within Eclipse as well.  it's a perspective.
Apr 04 22:24:47 <davidw> oops, forgot about that
Apr 04 22:24:54 <davidw> thanks
Apr 04 22:25:14 <jasta> the ADT plugin will also make it obvious in the debug perspective.
Apr 04 22:25:29 * davidw doesn't use eclipse
Apr 04 22:25:43 <jasta> well that's no excuse not to use DDMS :)
Apr 04 22:25:57 <romainguy_> I use IntelliJ and DDMS :)
Apr 04 22:26:21 <davidw> yeah, it's what I need, I'd just forgotten about it
Apr 04 22:28:02 <jasta> romainguy_: so i'm going to I/O for sure, are you gonna be there at all?
Apr 04 22:28:50 <romainguy_> when is I/O?
Apr 04 22:29:30 <romainguy_> ah May 28
Apr 04 22:29:32 <romainguy_> I'll be in France
Apr 04 22:29:45 <romainguy_> That sucks, I live two blocks from the Moscone
Apr 04 22:33:24 <jasta> that does suck
Apr 04 22:33:38 <romainguy_> ah well, next year
Apr 04 22:34:02 <romainguy_> and I'm going to JavaOne early May, that will probbaly be enough conference for the month
Apr 04 22:34:52 <jasta> i've never been in San Francisco as an adult, I'm kind of excited.
Apr 04 22:35:07 <michaelnovakjr> i have never been either
Apr 04 22:35:14 <michaelnovakjr> i would love to make it out there
Apr 04 22:36:40 <jasta> i have company at least, my buddy from loopt is going with me
Apr 04 22:36:49 <jasta> and i'm crashing on his couch, so it's pretty cheap for me
Apr 04 22:37:02 <michaelnovakjr> that works out
Apr 04 22:39:10 <morrildl> one day davidw will forget about javac too, and ask "geez, it'd be nice if I could run this stuff  somehow" ;)
Apr 04 22:40:30 * morrildl wishes everyone could come to Google IO
Apr 04 22:40:40 <morrildl> we could have a big old IRC party
Apr 04 22:40:48 <davidw> you use those compiler things?  I just write out the binary code in ed, myself
Apr 04 22:41:27 <rcjsuen> Is ADT's source code online somewhere?
Apr 04 22:41:31 <rcjsuen> (I don't mean the tarball)
Apr 04 22:41:59 <romainguy_> I think it is
Apr 04 22:42:13 <romainguy_> morrildl: Do you know if ADT's source is available?
Apr 04 22:42:25 <morrildl> yeah ti is
Apr 04 22:42:53 <rcjsuen> I'm not familiar with how Google Code sets up their project site, could you guys pass me a link?
Apr 04 22:42:58 <morrildl> http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list
Apr 04 22:43:11 <rcjsuen> morrildl: See above, I don't mean the tarball.
Apr 04 22:43:26 <rcjsuen> To clarify, I meant SCM access.
Apr 04 22:43:58 <romainguy_> I don't think there's anything else other than the tarball
Apr 04 22:43:59 <morrildl> rcjsuen: ahh -- the source for ADT is not currently loaded into an SCM
Apr 04 22:44:04 <romainguy_> What's wrong with the tarball?
Apr 04 22:44:06 <rcjsuen> How unfortunate.
Apr 04 22:44:15 <morrildl> the source for the kernel stuff is on a git repo
Apr 04 22:44:19 <rcjsuen> romainguy_: I was hoping to help submit patches. I guess not then. ;)
Apr 04 22:44:32 <rcjsuen> Is this "in the plan"?
Apr 04 22:44:47 <morrildl> definitely, though eventually :)
Apr 04 22:45:25 <morrildl> rcjsuen: currently the SCM system is our usual internal setup
Apr 04 22:45:45 <morrildl> when we release the source, one of the big tasks (possibly THE biggest) will be migrating to some kind of public infrastructure
Apr 04 22:45:50 <morrildl> we don't yet know what that will look like
Apr 04 22:46:00 <morrildl> could be svn, could be git, etc.
Apr 04 22:48:06 <davidw> git seems to be gaining in popularity these days
Apr 04 22:48:20 * davidw is pretty conservative about scm systems though
Apr 04 22:48:48 <romainguy_> things like git or mercurial are pretty awesome for large scale projects
Apr 04 22:48:51 <f00f-> i wouldnt be suprised if you used something like codeville :)
Apr 04 22:48:51 <romainguy_> especially public ones
Apr 04 22:50:33 <rcjsuen> morrildl: Thanks for the info.
Apr 04 22:51:22 <morrildl> rcjsuen: np
Apr 04 22:51:33 * davidw uses svn these days
Apr 04 22:51:35 <rcjsuen> I shall revisit Android when that happens then. ;)
Apr 04 22:51:40 <morrildl> rcjsuen: thanks :)
Apr 04 22:51:51 <morrildl> keep an eye on our blog, that will be where it's announced
Apr 04 22:52:02 <rcjsuen> Okilydokily :)
Apr 04 22:52:07 <rcjsuen> Have a nice weekend everyone :)
Apr 04 22:52:23 <morrildl> svn is nice
Apr 04 22:52:36 <michaelnovakjr> indeed...i use svn for all my projects
Apr 04 22:52:41 <morrildl> Ben Collins-Sussman and Brian Fitzpatrick work on Google Code Project Hosting
Apr 04 22:52:56 <jerkface03> anyone know wherei can find a large image of the green android?
Apr 04 22:53:05 <jerkface03> possibly a vector-based one?
Apr 04 22:53:16 <morrildl> jerkface03: oddly enough, wikipedia
Apr 04 22:53:42 <jerkface03> osnap
Apr 04 22:53:43 <jerkface03> thx
Apr 04 22:54:10 <Beryllium> is the android emulator dog-slow for anyone else? I wonder if my computer's just too slow to handle it
Apr 04 22:54:17 <morrildl> jerkface03: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Android-logo.svg
Apr 04 22:54:20 <jerkface03> after this presentation im done. im going to chuck in my submission
Apr 04 22:54:26 <jerkface03> morrildl: got it. thanks.
Apr 04 22:54:26 <davidw> morrildl, didn't greg stein do some of the integration between the google filesystem thing and svn?
Apr 04 22:54:36 <davidw> that's what I recall from oscon a few years back
Apr 04 22:54:54 <morrildl> davidw: Greg is a DAV guy, IIRC
Apr 04 22:55:17 <morrildl> davidw: but it would be plausible that he's worked with the svn guys
Apr 04 22:55:21 <morrildl> he's on the same general team
Apr 04 22:56:38 * morrildl wishes someone would tidy up the Wikipedia page on Android
Apr 04 22:57:20 <morrildl> I can't do it b/c I doubt Googlers editing that page would pass Wikipedia's "NPOV" muster :)
Apr 04 23:00:25 <duey> ill do it
Apr 04 23:00:37 <morrildl> duey: cooooooooool
Apr 04 23:00:42 <duey> what needs changing?
Apr 04 23:00:49 <romainguy_> duey: Look at the discussion page
Apr 04 23:00:51 <morrildl> funny you should ask ;)
Apr 04 23:00:55 <duey> Ok
Apr 04 23:01:19 <morrildl> mostly it just reads to me like it's pretty short on facts but long on criticism
Apr 04 23:01:29 <duey> typical
Apr 04 23:01:32 <morrildl> yeah
Apr 04 23:01:40 <morrildl> when wikipedia articles are good, they're really good
Apr 04 23:01:48 <morrildl> the Symbian article looks pretty decent, for instance
Apr 04 23:02:08 <romainguy_> morrildl: the day I discovered how good wikipedia can be is the day when I read the French article on wheelbarrels
Apr 04 23:02:17 <morrildl> ...
Apr 04 23:02:20 <duey> lol
Apr 04 23:02:25 <duey> they probably just use google translate
Apr 04 23:02:29 <morrildl> romainguy_: I'm intrigued by your ideas, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
Apr 04 23:02:34 <duey> maybe you should tell the translate team to improve there stuff
Apr 04 23:02:52 <morrildl> what IS the french word for wheelbarrow?
Apr 04 23:04:12 <davidw> Brouette, according to some web site with language tool features
Apr 04 23:05:00 <morrildl> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brouette
Apr 04 23:05:01 <morrildl> yeah
Apr 04 23:05:05 <morrildl> that's gotta be it all right
Apr 04 23:05:10 <morrildl> that's........... comprehensive.
Apr 04 23:05:31 <duey> yeah this aricle is fail
Apr 04 23:05:45 <duey> more references than content
Apr 04 23:05:55 <romainguy_> morrildl: indeed, it's very comprehensive :))
Apr 04 23:06:17 <morrildl> duey: yeah.  Do any of the references actually link to code.google.com? :)
Apr 04 23:06:23 <romainguy_> morrildl: the equations are scary :)
Apr 04 23:06:36 <duey> wow wtf
Apr 04 23:06:42 <duey> equaions on a page on wheel barrows?
Apr 04 23:06:50 <romainguy_> yes
Apr 04 23:06:56 <romainguy_> (duh, barrow, not barrel...)
Apr 04 23:07:00 <morrildl> romainguy_:  I was about to say "they're not that scary"
Apr 04 23:07:08 <romainguy_> morrildl: the equations themselves, no
Apr 04 23:07:13 <romainguy_> morrildl: but in the context...
Apr 04 23:07:21 <morrildl> but then I realized that you were saying that it was scary they are there at all :)
Apr 04 23:07:35 <morrildl> and then I slapped my inner physics major and told him to sit down and be quiet
Apr 04 23:08:11 <duey> interesting ip: 75.18.134.255
Apr 04 23:08:16 <duey> didn't know you could have 255
Apr 04 23:09:45 <f00f-> duey: i've seen .0 also
Apr 04 23:09:51 <duey> wow
Apr 04 23:09:58 <f00f-> it's legal depending on the netmask/CIDR bits
Apr 04 23:10:00 <morrildl> whose IP is .255?
Apr 04 23:10:13 <duey> morrildl, it was one on the edit history
Apr 04 23:10:17 <morrildl> ahh
Apr 04 23:10:19 <duey> just 255 is broadcast..
Apr 04 23:10:31 <morrildl> the huge whiny comment on the talk page at hte bottom was me
Apr 04 23:10:44 <morrildl> ...just by way of full disclosure :)
Apr 04 23:10:59 <duey> yeah i figured
Apr 04 23:11:19 <duey> im not familiar with the wikipedia rules
Apr 04 23:11:24 <duey> can i mark an article for improvement
Apr 04 23:11:30 <duey> who does it need to be discussed first
Apr 04 23:11:48 <morrildl> duey: so yeah, we'll expect the Android article to be up to the same standards as the French brouette article by Monday.
Apr 04 23:11:52 <morrildl> ;)
Apr 04 23:11:54 <morrildl> I don't think so
Apr 04 23:11:55 <duey> haha
Apr 04 23:11:58 <morrildl> I think you can just edit it
Apr 04 23:12:08 <morrildl> *I* didn't edit it because I'm hardly neutral
Apr 04 23:12:17 <duey> yeah doesn't look good
Apr 04 23:12:24 <duey> could edit it from home i guess
Apr 04 23:12:31 <jerkface03> You may not be neutral, but that doesn't mean you can't write with a NPOV
Apr 04 23:12:43 <morrildl> yeah, but that would only make me harder to catch, not less evil
Apr 04 23:12:52 <duey> true
Apr 04 23:13:07 <morrildl> jerkface03: true, but there's also a specific prohibition against editing articles on your own publications/work
Apr 04 23:13:16 <morrildl> aimed primarily at scientists, but arguably applicable to me in this case
Apr 04 23:13:35 <morrildl> or at least, so I understand
Apr 04 23:14:11 <davidw> I bet darth vader gave into temptation and edited his own Empirepedia article
Apr 04 23:14:23 <morrildl> If I had to choose between doing my taxes and figuring out Wikipedia's rules, I'd pick Wikipedia, but just barely
Apr 04 23:14:33 <morrildl> davidw: hahaha, no doubt
Apr 04 23:14:55 <morrildl> whatever you do, don't go to wookieepedia.com
Apr 04 23:15:05 <duey> this reads like a five year old describing what they have done
Apr 04 23:15:06 <davidw> not messing with it sounds like a better course of action.... that's the kind of thing sites like slashdot feed on "Google caught manipulating wikipedia!!!111111"
Apr 04 23:15:13 <morrildl> davidw: exactly
Apr 04 23:15:20 <morrildl> duey: hahahahaha
Apr 04 23:19:24 <duey> he neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.
Apr 04 23:19:29 <duey> or
Apr 04 23:19:29 <duey> The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Apr 04 23:21:52 <duey> ok ill markit as cleanup and dicuss the rest
Apr 04 23:27:08 <morrildl> duey: cool :)
Apr 04 23:27:17 <duey> don't have the time to fix it atm
Apr 04 23:27:26 <duey> 3 assignments and android :(
Apr 04 23:27:54 <davidw> ok, sleep time
Apr 04 23:28:25 <morrildl> davidw: see ya
Apr 04 23:28:41 <morrildl> duey: hey, wikipedia works on many many small steps :)
Apr 04 23:29:03 <duey> yeah
Apr 04 23:29:08 <duey> but i agree thats a really poor article
Apr 04 23:30:33 <morrildl> duey: thanks :)
Apr 04 23:30:36 <morrildl> gotta run, all
Apr 04 23:39:26 <jasta> what are we talking about?  wikipedia?
Apr 04 23:39:41 <michaelnovakjr> yes, i believe wikipedi
Apr 04 23:39:57 <jasta> but what about it?
Apr 04 23:40:32 <michaelnovakjr> android stuff on it i believe
Apr 04 23:40:32 <romainguy_> Android's article
Apr 04 23:41:04 <jasta> oh, Wikipedia is ridiculous for any recently introduced technology
Apr 04 23:41:54 <michaelnovakjr> pretty much
Apr 04 23:44:35 <jasta> i wonder if we're eligible to participate in both ADC events with the same app?
Apr 04 23:44:43 <jasta> assuming you didn't win the first time
Apr 04 23:44:54 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean?
Apr 04 23:45:26 <jasta> well, if i don't win the qualifying round coming up, i wonder if i'll be able to wait until the next challenge and compete again, but this time wiht a much, much more advanced application ;)
Apr 04 23:45:52 <michaelnovakjr> i see what you mean'
Apr 04 23:45:53 <jasta> potentially even one that is actually used and supported by a wide community
Apr 04 23:46:06 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Apr 04 23:46:12 <romainguy_> I thought the round 2 was only for the winners of round 1
Apr 04 23:46:18 <jasta> because, win or not, i will develop my application to maturity.
Apr 04 23:46:28 <romainguy_> "The 50 entries with the highest scores in Phase 2 judging will move on to Round 2 of the Challenge where they could potentially win awards of up to $275,000 USD. The participants who submitted these 50 entries will also receive the $25,000 USD Round 1 prizes, provided they successfully complete the paperwork requirements described below."
Apr 04 23:46:34 <jasta> romainguy_: That's for the first challenge.  There are 2 challenges, each with 2 rounds.
Apr 04 23:46:53 <romainguy_> ah ok
Apr 04 23:46:55 <romainguy_> so 2 challenges
Apr 04 23:47:01 <jasta> One that is happening now, and one that is to happen once devices are commercially available.
Apr 04 23:47:01 <romainguy_> first challenge with 2 rounds
Apr 04 23:47:05 <romainguy_> and the first round has 2 phases
Apr 04 23:47:07 <romainguy_> /o\
Apr 04 23:48:16 <jasta> well think about it, if you total those numbers (10 @ $275, 10 @ $100, and 50 @ $25), you only get 5 million.
Apr 04 23:48:23 <jasta> Exactly half the prize money Google is giving away :)
Apr 04 23:48:44 <romainguy_> I'm not here to do maths ^^
Apr 04 23:49:08 <jasta> I'm not sure if the second challenge will have the same exact rules, but it would seem to have the same cash payout.
Apr 04 23:49:16 <romainguy_> looks like it
Apr 04 23:49:27 <romainguy_> I wish I could participate ^^
Apr 04 23:49:30 <jasta> regardless, my question is whether a non-qualifying submission now will disqualify future submissions in the second challenge.
Apr 04 23:49:56 <jasta> i assume not, and therefore losing developers of this first challenge have the opportunity to reapply with an app that has like 7 more months of development on it.
Apr 04 23:52:24 <Ix-Xitan> hi people i have a problem i need to use RDF with Android and so i tried to use Jena API but in a normal Java program it works but when i come to use it from an android application it gives an error  please any ideas ?
Apr 04 23:53:05 <jasta> YAYY!!!!! http://blog.pocketjourney.com/
Apr 04 23:55:21 <jasta> such a kludgey hack, but i will probably incorporate this so my app actually works when i submit it
Apr 04 23:55:34 <duey> romainguy_, im glad you cannot participate!
Apr 04 23:55:57 <michaelnovakjr> why
Apr 04 23:56:20 <duey> cause he would probably win
Apr 04 23:56:29 <duey> bbl
Apr 05 00:37:36 <romainguy_> jasta: you should post that link on the newsgroups
Apr 05 00:48:04 <duey> btw is chinese not supported?
Apr 05 00:48:25 <duey> it displayed all bung when i use my translation to convert to chinese
Apr 05 01:08:39 <jasta> romainguy_: that's where i found it.
Apr 05 01:08:55 <romainguy_> ah cool
Apr 05 01:10:11 <jasta> i had the idea to try this a while ago but was convinced it would not work well
Apr 05 01:10:18 <jasta> and didn't want to spend the energy to research it
Apr 05 01:10:25 <jasta> i'm glad it does seem to work ok, and that someone has done it for me :)
Apr 05 01:10:48 <jasta> his implementation has quite a few obvious problems, but fortunately those can be ignored since it's just a short-term hack anyway
Apr 05 02:26:36 <michaelnovakjr> anyone developing on os x?
Apr 05 02:28:40 <romainguy> yes
Apr 05 02:28:55 <michaelnovakjr> do you have any issues with the emulator
Apr 05 02:29:41 <romainguy> none
Apr 05 02:30:00 <michaelnovakjr> lately its been crashing my machine
Apr 05 02:33:04 <duey> eclipse and the emulator break all the time
Apr 05 02:33:35 <michaelnovakjr> eclipse usually holds up for me, but when i throw the emulator in the mix my machine gets cranky
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