**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 07 02:59:56 2008
Apr 07 03:00:21 <chomchom> thank god, I have finally slapped icons on my interface and it actually looks like I might pull off a working application. How exciting.
Apr 07 03:04:40 <chomchom> goodnight everyone and good luck with the final few days coding!
Apr 07 03:04:57 <jasta> chomchom: got any screenshots?
Apr 07 03:05:20 <jasta> f00f-: i noticed the emulator runs much smoother on my work computer, which is actually less powerful than my desktop.
Apr 07 03:05:24 <jasta> both running Ubuntu
Apr 07 03:05:27 <jasta> doesn't make any sense.
Apr 07 03:05:52 <chomchom> I'll take some tomorrow
Apr 07 03:07:14 <jasta> romainguy_: So, I'm having some more animation problems using a ViewSwitcher inside of a list row.  I tried turning off the wrapping LinearLayout's animation cache, but it doesn't seem to have fixed the problem.
Apr 07 03:07:51 <jasta> should I setAlwaysDrawnWithCacheEnabled to false on the ListView itself?
Apr 07 03:08:00 <romainguy_> this is not enabled by default
Apr 07 03:08:55 <jasta> any thoughts then?
Apr 07 03:10:18 <jasta> maybe turn off the animation cache for the list itself?
Apr 07 03:11:37 <jasta> that didn't work :\
Apr 07 03:13:21 <romainguy_> jasta: turn it off on the viewswitcher itself
Apr 07 03:14:30 <jasta> nope
Apr 07 03:14:52 <jasta> in fact, that behaved very strangely.  it seemed to recycle the view incorrectly
Apr 07 03:20:04 * jasta scratches his head
Apr 07 03:33:43 <romainguy_> sweet
Apr 07 03:33:48 <romainguy_> <include /> done
Apr 07 03:36:29 <jasta> include?  to include other layout files?  that would be awesome :)
Apr 07 03:37:12 <romainguy_> it's actually a side-effect of something even cooler
Apr 07 03:37:18 <jasta> what?
Apr 07 03:37:34 <romainguy_> you'll see :)
Apr 07 03:37:42 <jasta> oh come on :)
Apr 07 03:37:52 <jasta> hey, are we expecting a release immediately after the challenge deadline?
Apr 07 03:38:15 <romainguy_> can't tell you
Apr 07 03:38:25 <romainguy_> because I don't even know
Apr 07 03:38:39 <jasta> what milestone are you guys on internally>?
Apr 07 03:38:43 <romainguy_> :)
Apr 07 03:38:51 <jasta> teehee
Apr 07 03:42:43 <jasta> i'm gonna guess m6
Apr 07 03:43:02 <jasta> let's hold a lotto on what the next release will be
Apr 07 03:43:10 <jasta> m6-rc11 is my guess
Apr 07 03:43:14 <jasta> no no, thats crazy
Apr 07 03:43:18 <jasta> m6-rc24
Apr 07 03:43:23 <jasta> hehe
Apr 07 03:47:28 <michaelnovakjr> what is the proper method for setting the src for an ImageView in Java code?
Apr 07 03:50:07 <jasta> there are numerous ways, setImageDrawable is perhaps the most conventional
Apr 07 03:50:31 <michaelnovakjr> cool, i was getting some null point exceptions using the resource one
Apr 07 03:50:47 <jasta> well, did you give it a valid resource?
Apr 07 03:51:10 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Apr 07 03:51:18 <jasta> what object was null, then?
Apr 07 03:51:50 <michaelnovakjr> the setImageResource was triggering the null exception
Apr 07 03:52:04 <jasta> was the imageview null? :)
Apr 07 03:52:11 <jasta> or was it deeper in thes tack?
Apr 07 03:52:25 <michaelnovakjr> it shouldn't be
Apr 07 03:52:32 <jasta> did you check?
Apr 07 03:52:45 <jasta> use a debugger, man :)
Apr 07 03:52:59 <michaelnovakjr> i am working on it..... not used to it
Apr 07 04:26:07 <jasta> romainguy_: Do you suppose that the ADC judges will do any "stress testing" of the app?
Apr 07 04:26:27 <jasta> That is, intentionally thinking of ways to trouble the app?
Apr 07 04:27:03 <jasta> Like switching off the data connection in the middle of a download to simulate going out of range?
Apr 07 04:27:25 <jasta> My program has a lot of corner cases that I don't currently handle well :)
Apr 07 04:28:21 <romainguy> I have no idea
Apr 07 04:28:28 <romainguy> I never saw such a thing in the contest rules
Apr 07 04:28:35 <jasta> neither did i.
Apr 07 04:28:52 <zhobbs> jasta: I hope not :)
Apr 07 04:29:08 <jasta> i'm actually a bit confused as to how my app will be judged, given that so much of the "wow" will not be apparent to the judges
Apr 07 04:30:18 <jasta> if my app is doing its job, the nature of how it works should not get in your way and in that way it owuld work just like any other music player.
Apr 07 04:30:37 <jasta> so it might not seem any more significant than a traditional player
Apr 07 04:32:28 <f00f-> will it be bad if the judges see an ANR dialog?
Apr 07 04:32:46 <romainguy> jasta: except that the music is not initially on the device...
Apr 07 04:32:49 <jasta> i assume that would detract from its polish and appeal, which would earn you a low score in that category :)
Apr 07 04:33:00 <romainguy> f00f-: well, if that makes the application annoying to use...
Apr 07 04:33:13 <jasta> romainguy: well right, i am thinking about having a little blurb on the sync screen when the first time sync happens
Apr 07 04:33:18 <f00f-> well, it only happens when GTalk service is enabled, so i'm disabling it by default
Apr 07 04:33:26 <jasta> saying like "Please be patient as your entire music library is organized onto your phone..." to make it seem more dramatic :)
Apr 07 04:33:36 <f00f-> but for it to be supported, will the judges be given GTalk accounts to test with?
Apr 07 04:33:44 <f00f-> hehe
Apr 07 04:34:00 <jasta> also, it's painfully slow first-time, so i hope the judges are patient with me :)
Apr 07 04:34:08 <zhobbs> jasta: talking it up in the docs might go a long way
Apr 07 04:34:26 <jasta> there's little optimization, but i intend to limit the set of data that the judges will see to get the sync time down to about 3 minutes.
Apr 07 04:34:28 <michaelnovakjr> i hope they are a heart for public service apps :)
Apr 07 04:34:43 <jasta> which should include about 200 albums.
Apr 07 04:34:59 <f00f-> michaelnovakjr: do you want to share your idea yet?
Apr 07 04:35:14 <michaelnovakjr> i am writing a warning system for severe weather
Apr 07 04:35:31 <f00f-> nice, i was going to do an emergency social networking app, but figured i'd do something else :)
Apr 07 04:35:47 <zhobbs> an emergency social networking app?
Apr 07 04:35:59 <f00f-> let people around you know of emergencies, etc.
Apr 07 04:36:08 <michaelnovakjr> yea, this one focuses on severe weather, there really isn't a great way to transmit severe weather for sometime like the middle of the night
Apr 07 04:36:09 <zhobbs> I saw an app that does that
Apr 07 04:36:12 <f00f-> tie up with state, federal,etc. alert reporting systems
Apr 07 04:36:28 <f00f-> i love how gov't nowadays provides web services for a lot of things
Apr 07 04:36:29 <michaelnovakjr> text messaging is really unreliable
Apr 07 04:36:42 <f00f-> yeah, and most operators can't pump them out fast enough
Apr 07 04:36:45 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 07 04:37:06 <f00f-> just 3-4 years ago AT&T had a processing rate of 5-10/sec network-wide, so i hear
Apr 07 04:37:32 <michaelnovakjr> i figured a cellphone is a great way to alert someone in the middle of the night for a tornado or other form of severe weather
Apr 07 04:37:48 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr: if you do get signal ^^
Apr 07 04:38:04 <f00f-> you bet, and especially when everyone keeps them nearby
Apr 07 04:38:11 <zhobbs> well in your house you might get wifi...until the tornado takes it out
Apr 07 04:38:13 <michaelnovakjr> true, mine did in one of those situations
Apr 07 04:38:21 <f00f-> but remember
Apr 07 04:38:31 <f00f-> they say, SMS got through when voice didn't during 9/11
Apr 07 04:38:46 <f00f-> i doubt packet sessions survived even
Apr 07 04:38:55 <f00f-> SMS is at  amuch lower level than packet
Apr 07 04:39:10 <michaelnovakjr> true.... the magnitude of that situation was intense
Apr 07 04:39:35 <f00f-> there's something to be said of fixed-length data packets :)
Apr 07 04:40:16 <michaelnovakjr> i have worked on server software for the system for months to make it very fast and efficient in terms of size of data
Apr 07 04:40:31 <f00f-> so are you counting on it being accessible by the judges?
Apr 07 04:40:38 <michaelnovakjr> it will be
Apr 07 04:40:39 <f00f-> i think i will bundle a data set with my app
Apr 07 04:40:46 <f00f-> failover mechanism
Apr 07 04:40:56 <michaelnovakjr> mine too, but i will definitely attempt a network connection
Apr 07 04:40:59 <f00f-> yep
Apr 07 04:41:24 <michaelnovakjr> but again that would imply they are in a warning area, so an example set of data works out well for me
Apr 07 04:41:46 <michaelnovakjr> or atleast a default location with a set of example data the application can pull
Apr 07 04:41:54 <f00f-> so you use GPS i bet
Apr 07 04:41:58 <f00f-> have you made your own location provder?
Apr 07 04:41:59 <michaelnovakjr> its in the plans
Apr 07 04:42:28 <michaelnovakjr> probably not for the ADC... the user can put in their zip code and the servers pull the weather code for their area
Apr 07 04:42:37 <f00f-> okay
Apr 07 04:42:57 <michaelnovakjr> but if they are  traveling they can turn on gps usage
Apr 07 04:43:13 <zhobbs> I've noticed in my area there are lots of severe weather alerts for not so severe weather (ie, it's dry so watch out for brushfires)
Apr 07 04:43:38 <michaelnovakjr> ah good point.... got that covered
Apr 07 04:43:49 <michaelnovakjr> i created a leveling system based on warnings
Apr 07 04:44:03 <michaelnovakjr> so users can choose only to get the most severe warnings
Apr 07 04:44:26 <jasta> like "your roof just got torn off"
Apr 07 04:44:34 <michaelnovakjr> prettu much :)
Apr 07 04:45:33 <jasta> what regions are you targetting for this app?
Apr 07 04:45:35 <michaelnovakjr> last tornado in my area.... was about 5 am and I was still sleeping and was woken up by a bad thunderstorm.... didn't think anything of it and kept sleeping till someone called my cell to tell me there was a tornado warning
Apr 07 04:45:44 <michaelnovakjr> all of the united states so far
Apr 07 04:45:58 <michaelnovakjr> i plan to support international areas soon though
Apr 07 04:46:21 <jasta> i live in Seattle, the most severe weather we have ever received was a snow storm that dropped like 2 feet of snow in the lowlands over the course of a week
Apr 07 04:46:30 <jasta> literally, that is the most severe we've ever seen :)
Apr 07 04:46:50 <jasta> except i guess in the 70's we had another snow storm like that that dumped 4 feet
Apr 07 04:47:20 <michaelnovakjr> severe weather was rare in the NYC area, but in the past year or two we have seen a noticeable increase in tornados and very bad wind storms
Apr 07 04:48:38 <jasta> when i was in Atlanta earlier this year, I guess a tornado swept through nearby towns and killed 4 people
Apr 07 04:48:48 <jasta> like the day before we touched down
Apr 07 04:49:22 <michaelnovakjr> yea, the warning system could use some improving... even if the app helps only some people, then its worth it
Apr 07 04:49:54 <jasta> the challenge with such a system is that it would need to have a very light footprint and have a chance to be integrated nationally on all phones.
Apr 07 04:50:02 <jasta> with cooperation from local governments too
Apr 07 04:50:14 <f00f-> well that's where an SMS based solutions wins
Apr 07 04:50:27 <michaelnovakjr> indeed, i have kept this application very very very simple
Apr 07 04:50:28 <jasta> it's a bureaucratic problem :)
Apr 07 04:50:37 <f00f-> yeah, there are companies trying to do it
Apr 07 04:50:42 <f00f-> but it's a total nightmare
Apr 07 04:50:43 <michaelnovakjr> in the US its pretty straight forward
Apr 07 04:50:50 <f00f-> the infrastructure won't support all that load
Apr 07 04:51:17 <f00f-> ideally you would use Cell Broadcast to target it regionally, but there is no mandate that forces operators to support it
Apr 07 04:51:23 <jasta> it would be neat if some national standard was published for public safety on cellular devices though
Apr 07 04:51:29 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 07 04:51:39 <jasta> but you'd need to push in a very different direction to make something like that happen
Apr 07 04:51:56 <michaelnovakjr> that would require more control over the cellphone industry
Apr 07 04:52:18 <michaelnovakjr> that right there is a difficult task
Apr 07 04:52:27 <f00f-> or make a suggestion to them
Apr 07 04:52:34 <f00f-> i think the FCC has threatened before
Apr 07 04:52:40 <f00f-> and usually the industry complies
Apr 07 04:52:45 <f00f-> without an actual law
Apr 07 04:52:47 <michaelnovakjr> i have a bunch of servers that are running the services that control communications
Apr 07 04:52:49 <jasta> yeah actually you wouldn't need to touch the industry directly
Apr 07 04:52:58 <jasta> local and federal governments would be the best place to attack
Apr 07 04:53:15 <michaelnovakjr> i have a win mobile version i have been working with too
Apr 07 04:53:34 <michaelnovakjr> it takes less than 1% of the running memory on my touch
Apr 07 04:53:49 <f00f-> aha
Apr 07 04:54:08 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Apr 07 04:54:29 <murch> .. I have an android related question, can I shoot?
Apr 07 04:54:35 <jasta> go ahead
Apr 07 04:54:48 <murch> Is it possible to have multiple views per activity?
Apr 07 04:54:56 <murch> but with each view replacing the other
Apr 07 04:55:02 <jasta> yes, of course.  You want a FrameLayout
Apr 07 04:55:10 <murch> *googles*
Apr 07 04:55:23 <jasta> You may wish to look at the Tab system in Android as well.
Apr 07 04:55:52 <f00f-> i guess i should have used tabs for my wizard :/
Apr 07 04:56:09 <jasta> i have a relatively sophisticated demonstration of the tab system on my blog at http://devtcg.org
Apr 07 04:56:24 <jasta> however, keep in mind that tabs are not the only way.  FrameLayout is the basis for this behaviour, and could be controlled any way you choose.
Apr 07 04:56:58 <romainguy_> f00f-: tabs for a wizard?!
Apr 07 04:57:22 * f00f- backs down
Apr 07 04:57:28 <f00f-> yes, good that i didn't go through with it :)
Apr 07 04:57:35 <michaelnovakjr> i agree
Apr 07 04:57:39 <f00f-> Prev/Next buttons should be good enough
Apr 07 04:57:42 <michaelnovakjr> that could be a bit confusing
Apr 07 04:57:50 <zhobbs> murch: FrameLayout has some descendants like ViewAnimator/ViewSwitcher that might be interesting also
Apr 07 04:57:51 <romainguy_> sweet, my tool is working
Apr 07 04:58:01 <jasta> which tool?
Apr 07 04:58:10 <romainguy_> a desktop app
Apr 07 04:58:18 <romainguy_> it shows your view hierarchy as a visual tree
Apr 07 04:58:27 <romainguy_> and when you click a node, it shows the value for various properties
Apr 07 04:58:41 <romainguy_> the nice thing is you can choose what properties to show using annotations
Apr 07 04:58:41 <jasta> haven't you already designed that?  you were mentioning it earlier.
Apr 07 04:58:52 <romainguy_> it was something similar
Apr 07 04:59:01 <romainguy_> but it was recording the drawing/layout actions
Apr 07 04:59:26 <murch> jasta: thanks :)
Apr 07 04:59:48 <murch> zhobbs:  thanks, i'll take a look at it
Apr 07 05:00:01 <romainguy_> jasta: for instance I put a @ViewDebug.ExportedProperty on View.getWidth() and the tool shows the value of this method when you click the node in the tree
Apr 07 05:00:09 <romainguy_> it also works on fields
Apr 07 05:00:33 <romainguy_> and reverse-resolve some fields (for instance, the value of getId() is turned into the original String)
Apr 07 05:00:46 <jasta> are these tools that are published in the source tree?  that is, when Android is ultimately released, will your tools be available to other developers?
Apr 07 05:01:03 <romainguy_> the first one, I would need to update it to the latest ddms protocols
Apr 07 05:01:11 <romainguy_> the new one, I'd definitely would like to make it available
Apr 07 05:01:29 <romainguy_> gotta figure out licensing stuff before (it relies on 3rd party libraries, all open source, but licenses...)
Apr 07 05:01:34 <jasta> i'm very excited to tear into Android internals :)
Apr 07 05:01:50 <romainguy_> note that both these tools work with the ViewDebug class
Apr 07 05:02:10 <romainguy_> so, there's at least what you need to produce the output
Apr 07 05:06:44 <f00f-> michaelnovakjr: http://www.cellbroadcastforum.org/
Apr 07 05:07:45 <michaelnovakjr> that is interesting
Apr 07 05:08:19 <romainguy_> jasta: http://progx.org/users/Gfx/hierarchyviewer.png
Apr 07 05:08:52 <jasta> that looks very, very useful :)
Apr 07 05:09:09 <romainguy_> I have many, many ideas for this tool
Apr 07 05:09:11 <romainguy_> but so little time
Apr 07 05:09:24 <romainguy_> this is the first, hacky implementation I wrote in a few hours
Apr 07 05:09:27 <zhobbs> when you going to release it?
Apr 07 05:09:36 <jasta> don't mean to get off topic, but what the fuck.  is the RemoteCallbackList not thread-safe?  *GRR*
Apr 07 05:09:38 <romainguy_> zhobbs: hopefully in a future SDK :)
Apr 07 05:09:56 <romainguy_> zhobbs: but as I said, the protocol lives in android.view.ViewDebug
Apr 07 05:10:05 <romainguy_> so even without the tool you can easily access the data
Apr 07 05:10:26 <romainguy_> the tool just sends a DUMP\n command to android on port 4939
Apr 07 05:10:45 <romainguy_> and receive the tree in a human readable format that's very easy to parse
Apr 07 05:16:44 <michaelnovakjr> goodnight all
Apr 07 05:17:55 <f00f-> nite
Apr 07 05:20:37 <f00f-> how can i get rid of: W/ActivityManager(  520): Failure sending broadcast Intent
Apr 07 05:20:43 <f00f-> when my service crashes
Apr 07 05:21:05 <f00f-> these are intents coming from the android location service
Apr 07 05:26:55 <zhobbs> is there a way to run the emulator with networking disabled?  I guess I could specifiy a really high netdelay, but don't see nonetwork
Apr 07 05:27:32 <jasta> you can disable the network at runtime via ddms and other ways
Apr 07 05:27:46 <f00f-> maybe specify an invalid proxy server
Apr 07 05:28:06 <f00f-> romainguy_: is there a way to invoke the dialer (or even start a call) with a specified number?
Apr 07 05:28:37 <romainguy_> zhobbs: emulator -qemu -net none
Apr 07 05:28:41 <f00f-> i see com.google.android.phone.Dialer in a sample but no class for it
Apr 07 05:28:45 <romainguy_> f00f-: with an intent I guess
Apr 07 05:28:53 <f00f-> hmm ok
Apr 07 05:29:24 <zhobbs> jasta: where in ddms?
Apr 07 05:29:47 <jasta> ddms is a perspective in the Eclipse plugin, and also a standalone program by that name
Apr 07 05:30:31 <zhobbs> yeah, I know...just don't see the option to kill networking
Apr 07 05:30:43 <jasta> it's there
Apr 07 05:30:45 <romainguy_> emulator -qemu -net none
Apr 07 05:30:53 <zhobbs> ok
Apr 07 05:31:15 <murch> can you nest a ViewAnimator inside a FrameLayout?
Apr 07 05:31:24 <zhobbs> no need to really
Apr 07 05:31:37 <murch> but it shouldn't cause any XML bugs?
Apr 07 05:32:14 <jasta> murch: a ViewAnimator is a FrameLayout, but otherwise yes.
Apr 07 05:32:18 <jasta> you could
Apr 07 05:37:37 <f00f-> com.google.android.phone.TwelveKeyDialer
Apr 07 05:37:38 <f00f-> lol
Apr 07 05:38:51 <romainguy_> ?
Apr 07 05:39:34 <f00f-> http://groups.google.com/group/android-beginners/browse_thread/thread/a8bc4aeb9677fe6e?hl=en
Apr 07 06:10:46 <jasta> romainguy_: it would be slick to animate a progress bar if it jumps significantly :)
Apr 07 06:11:05 <romainguy_> yep
Apr 07 06:11:13 <jasta> is that a planned featured?
Apr 07 06:11:14 <jasta> feature*
Apr 07 06:11:15 <romainguy_> it's on a todo list somewhere
Apr 07 06:11:30 <romainguy_> although I would say it's very very very very low down the list of priorities :p
Apr 07 06:12:39 <f00f-> romainguy_: there seems to be a memory leak in broadcasting intents that have no receivers (DeadObjectException) ?
Apr 07 06:13:47 <romainguy_> f00f-: how do you detect it?
Apr 07 06:15:05 <f00f-> well i see a bunch of "failed to broadcast intent" messages and memory usage grows to 16.00 MB and then the emulator just dies and reboots
Apr 07 06:15:35 <jtoy> do services start automatically if you application does not run, say for example when the phone reboots, will a service that is supposed to run every hour stil run?
Apr 07 06:15:40 <romainguy_> ah, that's bad indeed
Apr 07 06:15:43 <romainguy_> you should file a bug
Apr 07 06:15:51 <romainguy_> unless the leak is in your app :)
Apr 07 06:16:04 <f00f-> romainguy_: i will test it by shutting down my app and see if still happens
Apr 07 06:17:37 <zhobbs> jtoy: no, unless you create an intentreciever for boot_complete
Apr 07 06:17:46 <zhobbs> and run the service that way
Apr 07 06:17:56 <jtoy> I guess I need to do  that then
Apr 07 06:23:23 <jtoy> with all these services apps running, i image the phone will be extremely slow and have bad batter life
Apr 07 06:24:04 <zhobbs> romainguy_: emulator -qemu -net none -> error: sorry, you need to enable the network to use the Android emulator
Apr 07 06:24:26 <zhobbs> If you say no network in qemu maybe adb wouldn't be able to talk to it??
Apr 07 06:24:50 <jasta> zhobbs: you should just disable the radio with ddms.
Apr 07 06:25:25 <zhobbs> where is that option?
Apr 07 06:25:45 <zhobbs> ohh...data->denied or something?
Apr 07 06:28:22 <jasta> yes
Apr 07 06:29:30 <jasta> romainguy_: what's a decelerateInterpolator?
Apr 07 06:29:50 <jasta> or is it obvious?
Apr 07 06:29:59 <romainguy_> it's pretty obvious to me :)
Apr 07 06:30:09 <romainguy_> it used to be called easeoutinterpolator
Apr 07 06:30:10 <jasta> just making sure there wa sno voodo here :)
Apr 07 06:30:12 <jasta> voodoo*
Apr 07 06:47:53 <jasta> romainguy_: if i had a partial fade in animation that faded to opacity 0.5, and out from 0.5 back to 0.0, why would the view suddenly become 100% opaque after the animation?
Apr 07 06:47:58 <jasta> could that be anotehr animation cache bug?
Apr 07 06:48:27 <zhobbs> are you doing fillAfter?
Apr 07 06:48:33 <jasta> what's that?
Apr 07 06:48:57 <romainguy_> fillAfter tells the animation to retain the final value
Apr 07 06:50:32 <jasta> well, then i wasn't.
Apr 07 06:50:50 <zhobbs> that's probably what you want
Apr 07 06:51:21 <jasta> it looks like i would want it false?
Apr 07 06:51:56 <romainguy_> well no
Apr 07 06:51:59 <zhobbs> true means that the view will stay how it is at the end of the animation I think
Apr 07 06:52:14 <romainguy_> if you want the view to remain at 0% opacity, you need it set to true
Apr 07 06:52:47 * jasta experiments
Apr 07 06:53:48 <zhobbs> setting data to denied (or anything) doesn't seem to make a difference for me
Apr 07 06:54:06 <jasta> i used to use it all the time back in M3
Apr 07 06:54:13 <jasta> to test sudden loss of data connection
Apr 07 06:54:14 <zhobbs> hmm
Apr 07 06:54:19 <jasta> havent tested it in a while though
Apr 07 06:54:25 <zhobbs> yeah, that's what I'm trying to do
Apr 07 06:58:47 <jasta> romainguy_: so, given: fromAlpha="0.0" toAlpha="0.1" fillAfter="true" ... if i start that animation, then set the view visible, when the animation finishes the opacity should remain 10% right?
Apr 07 06:59:00 <zhobbs> yeah
Apr 07 06:59:04 <jasta> it doesn't.
Apr 07 06:59:20 <jasta> it fades to 10%, then on the next redraw becomes 100% opaque.
Apr 07 07:00:25 <zhobbs> fillAfter was broke in M3, was supposed to be fixed in M5
Apr 07 07:00:49 <jasta> and i assume on my partial fade out animation i should have fillBefore="true" as well?
Apr 07 07:02:39 <romainguy_> jasta: yep
Apr 07 07:03:02 <jasta> what could possibly be happening here?
Apr 07 07:03:03 <romainguy_> I know there was a last minute change to how we handle animations in M5
Apr 07 07:03:16 <romainguy_> and I also remember I fixed a bug it introduced right after the M5 release
Apr 07 07:03:31 <romainguy_> if you send me a small example that reproduces the problem, I can run it on our current tree and see what's going on
Apr 07 07:03:56 <jasta> ok, i'll try.
Apr 07 07:04:09 <romainguy_> thanks
Apr 07 07:04:20 <jasta> well, thank you :)
Apr 07 07:04:41 <romainguy_> animations, bitmap caches and listview are my daily nemesis :))
Apr 07 07:05:18 <jasta> hang around for 10 minutes, i can whip up a sample very fast :)
Apr 07 07:05:20 <zhobbs> hmmm....a few emulator restarts later the data = denied param is working now
Apr 07 07:05:24 <jasta> assuming the bug is what i think it is
Apr 07 07:06:48 <davidw> 'morning
Apr 07 07:12:19 <davidw> snowy morning:-/
Apr 07 07:13:20 <f00f-> where you at davidw ?
Apr 07 07:13:27 <davidw> Innsbruck
Apr 07 07:13:34 <f00f-> NJ ?
Apr 07 07:13:47 <jasta> romainguy_: Sure, it works great in my small demo :)
Apr 07 07:13:47 <romainguy_> Austria I believe
Apr 07 07:13:59 <f00f-> oh, that makes sense with time
Apr 07 07:14:13 <jasta> I suspect it's the same or similar animation cache bug that I reported earlier.  Any thoughts on a work-around?
Apr 07 07:14:40 <romainguy_> try disabling the cache? :)
Apr 07 07:14:50 <jasta> well, my confusion is the same as it was before: where?
Apr 07 07:14:56 <jtoy> is there any adapter that I can use to pull arbitrary elements from in a list view?
Apr 07 07:15:45 <jtoy> SimpleAdapter needs a hashmap, SimpleCursorAdapter needs a Cursor, but is there something where I can pass a list of objects and then say call method foo and bar and display those in the view?
Apr 07 07:16:06 <jasta> romainguy_: wait, i'm mistaken.  it doesn't work correctly in my small demo :)
Apr 07 07:16:17 <jasta> as soon as you change the progress, it redraws at full opacity.
Apr 07 07:17:23 <jasta> Give me 5 to package it up
Apr 07 07:18:05 <mickrobk> jasta: i had the same problem, for a workaround i set an animation listener that changed the visibility to invisible so it would stay gone
Apr 07 07:18:28 <jasta> i don't think that's the same problem as i'm having.
Apr 07 07:18:32 <romainguy_> jasta: don't send me an .apk :)
Apr 07 07:18:39 <jasta> i wasn't going to.
Apr 07 07:18:45 <romainguy_> cool
Apr 07 07:19:38 <mickrobk> jasta: the problem i had was the end state of the animation didn't stay, alpha in my case, so I put an animation listener on it so that then put the alpha at the desired end state
Apr 07 07:20:03 <zhobbs> what's a reasonable connection timeout on a mobile?
Apr 07 07:20:14 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr: you should not have to do this
Apr 07 07:20:17 <zhobbs> 5 sec enough?
Apr 07 07:20:18 <jasta> zhobbs: most of my apps use about 90 seconds.
Apr 07 07:20:19 <romainguy_> fillAfter=true should be enough
Apr 07 07:20:25 <romainguy_> and I believe it's true by default
Apr 07 07:20:39 <romainguy_> yes, fillAfter and fillBefore are true by default
Apr 07 07:21:01 <zhobbs> 90 huh?  My progressdialog is not cancelable...that would be rough
Apr 07 07:21:10 <mickrobk> romainguy_: that wasn't working for me, same issue as jasta
Apr 07 07:21:21 <romainguy_> mickrobk: just a bug :)
Apr 07 07:21:30 <romainguy_> which, I believe, is fixed in post-M5
Apr 07 07:21:33 <romainguy_> but I need to check
Apr 07 07:21:38 <jasta> romainguy_: submitting now
Apr 07 07:23:41 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=611
Apr 07 07:24:10 <jasta> the demonstration is simple: click in to fade the progress bar in, click increment to update the progress; upon doing so, the opacity returns to 100%.
Apr 07 07:27:10 <jasta> romainguy_: setProgress isn't necessarily the trigger here; I tried mBar.invalidate() which also reset the opacity.
Apr 07 07:30:22 <jtoy> http://lbellonda.blogspot.com/2007/12/android-how-to-show-items-with.html
Apr 07 07:30:33 <jtoy> oops,
Apr 07 07:30:56 <romainguy_> jasta: it's just drawing, so invalidate() would do it indeed
Apr 07 07:31:30 <romainguy_> shit, the bug is also in our tree
Apr 07 07:31:43 <romainguy_> damn I was sure I fixed it
Apr 07 07:31:44 <romainguy_> boo
Apr 07 07:31:51 <jasta> well then how would i accomplish this effect?  i just want a progress bar that animates to 50% opacity moves around, then goes away
Apr 07 07:32:05 <romainguy_> wait for a bug fix :)
Apr 07 07:32:05 <jasta> , moves around*
Apr 07 07:32:18 <jasta> well, at least i've given you something to do :)
Apr 07 07:32:18 <mickrobk> jasta: use an animationEnd listener
Apr 07 07:32:30 <jasta> mickrobk: how would that help me?
Apr 07 07:32:32 <romainguy_> jasta: like I wasn't busy enough :)
Apr 07 07:33:11 <romainguy_> ah
Apr 07 07:33:15 <romainguy_> I know what could be happening here
Apr 07 07:33:30 <romainguy_> doh!
Apr 07 07:33:32 <romainguy_> there's no bug
Apr 07 07:33:34 <jasta> ?
Apr 07 07:33:44 <mickrobk> jasta, http://www.nopaste.com/p/aaAInm5Zn
Apr 07 07:33:53 <romainguy_> \o/
Apr 07 07:34:02 <romainguy_> ok
Apr 07 07:34:03 <romainguy_> so
Apr 07 07:34:04 <jasta> mickrobk: that's completely irrelevant.
Apr 07 07:34:21 <romainguy_> you need to use android:keepAnimations="true"
Apr 07 07:34:24 <jasta> also, totally unnecessary.  that effect can be accomplished easier.
Apr 07 07:34:31 <romainguy_> on the layout that contains the progressbar
Apr 07 07:34:46 <jasta> that's goofy; why?
Apr 07 07:34:51 <romainguy_> the reason is that most of the time animations puts views in their final, normal state
Apr 07 07:35:05 <romainguy_> in that case, it is totally unnecessary to keep the animation set on the view
Apr 07 07:35:18 <romainguy_> because it makes ViewGroup go through a much slower code path at drawing time
Apr 07 07:35:30 <romainguy_> I identified this as a cause for many slowdowns
Apr 07 07:35:41 <romainguy_> so by default, when the animation is over, we call View.clearAnimation()
Apr 07 07:35:47 <romainguy_> unless you set keepAnimations=true
Apr 07 07:35:49 <jasta> well, hang on a minute.
Apr 07 07:35:51 <mickrobk> jasta: just set the animationlistener for that animation to be that class, doesn't that solve what ur trying to do?
Apr 07 07:36:12 <jasta> mickrobk: no, and like i said, neither do you.
Apr 07 07:36:22 <romainguy_> what I should do is make fillAfter=false by default
Apr 07 07:36:24 <jasta> err, yo udon't need it either :)
Apr 07 07:36:41 <romainguy_> and if fillAfter=true then we keep the animation
Apr 07 07:36:46 <romainguy_> otherwise, we throw it away
Apr 07 07:36:53 <jasta> romainguy_: So this will slow down the drawing of all children in this layout, or only ones that have an animation (i.e. only the progress bar)?
Apr 07 07:37:01 <romainguy_> the ones that have an animation
Apr 07 07:37:25 <romainguy_> but if you use for instance a layout animation, then all of the children have an animation
Apr 07 07:37:34 <romainguy_> (Home used to have a layout animation)
Apr 07 07:37:43 <jasta> excellent, keepanimations works.
Apr 07 07:37:49 <romainguy_> sorry for that
Apr 07 07:38:00 <jasta> well, i'm happy regardless; thanks romain :)
Apr 07 07:38:38 <davidw> romainguy, looked at the iphone sdk at all?
Apr 07 07:39:16 <romainguy_> not closely no
Apr 07 07:39:26 <romainguy_> I'd rather not touch it :)
Apr 07 07:40:08 <jasta> best to keep your mind pure :)
Apr 07 07:40:21 <romainguy_> you never know with lawyers nowadays :)
Apr 07 07:42:03 <jasta> romainguy_: will you comment on my issue so that folks reading it will know about this
Apr 07 07:42:10 <romainguy_> I did
Apr 07 07:42:17 <jasta> oh ok, thanks
Apr 07 07:42:20 <romainguy_> :)
Apr 07 07:42:42 <jasta> i'm testing this in my real app now
Apr 07 07:43:27 <romainguy_> Hmm I think I can remove this keepAnimations flag
Apr 07 07:46:45 <jasta> porting to the next SDK is not going to be easy, is it?
Apr 07 07:47:13 <romainguy_> not as bad as porting to M5 I'd say
Apr 07 07:47:23 <romainguy_> but we changed a bunch of APIs, as usual :)
Apr 07 07:53:11 <jasta> m5 wasn't bad, actually
Apr 07 07:53:21 <jasta> although i didn't have even 1/3th the code i have now back then sooo
Apr 07 07:53:39 <zhobbs> the biggest change with M5 was the look of the widgets for touchscreen
Apr 07 07:53:50 <zhobbs> had to change the way you may have been building your UI
Apr 07 07:54:06 <jasta> i would say that the biggest change in terms of hassle was the uri and content provider stuff
Apr 07 07:54:24 * zhobbs is happy he hasn't gone there yet
Apr 07 07:54:35 <jasta> content providers are the suckiest part of android, for sure.
Apr 07 07:55:34 <duey> oh look what you did jasta
Apr 07 07:55:37 <duey> made romainguy sad
Apr 07 08:01:13 <davidw> yeah, I think the whole url/sql thing is kind of odd... maybe it's just me though
Apr 07 08:03:03 <jasta> no, it is odd.
Apr 07 09:09:04 <acsia> hi
Apr 07 09:09:06 <acsia> morning
Apr 07 09:09:12 <acsia> anybody out there?
Apr 07 09:11:05 <mickrobk> hello
Apr 07 09:28:34 <davidw> anyone else have issues with a webview not really starting up the first time?
Apr 07 09:35:41 <acsia> have you checked if the db was created?
Apr 07 09:36:04 <acsia> or errors in the log creating the webview?
Apr 07 09:36:19 <acsia> I have a webview in the start of my app  and never had any problems
Apr 07 09:43:01 <mazzen> hi! i would like to change the pictures in android and so i unpacked the jar, changed the pictures, packed the jar and started android. but nothing  was changed. even if i delete all of the png files, they are still in android when i launch it. so i'm apparently on the wrong way :D. would anyone be so kind and give me some hints?
Apr 07 09:45:29 <mickrobk> mazzen, mb try "emulator -wipe-data" but i dunno if that'll help
Apr 07 09:47:59 <mazzen> mickrobk: so theoretically it should work this way?
Apr 07 09:48:42 <mazzen> i even rebooted my computer, to be 100% sure that nothing was loaded from the ram
Apr 07 09:48:49 <mickrobk> mazzen, i have no idea, it's worth a shot though, unless u have a bunch of saved stuff u want to keep.
Apr 07 09:49:38 <mickrobk> mazzen, the emulator stores it's state in a userdata.img file in ur appdata, it might be keeping image caches for the os there
Apr 07 09:49:49 <mickrobk> mazzen, but y would u want to change the pictures
Apr 07 09:50:19 <mickrobk> if ur trying to change what buttons or something looks like, u should define a custom theme
Apr 07 09:55:04 <mazzen> mickrobk: ok, i'll take a look at this. thanks so far!
Apr 07 09:55:58 <mazzen> emulator -wipe-data didn't helped, which confuse me a little bit, as there are no. really no pngs!
Apr 07 09:56:48 <Ix-Xitan> hello guys if i want to use another API with android is it possible ?
Apr 07 09:57:51 <mickrobk> mazzen, the resources are probably compiled into the actual apks then, which you can't change until they release the full source
Apr 07 09:59:23 * davidw can't wait to see the sources
Apr 07 09:59:24 <raidfive> but once again, why would you want to change the default android os images? :)
Apr 07 09:59:26 <zhobbs> Ix-Xitan: you can use external jar files
Apr 07 10:00:20 <Ix-Xitan> zhobbs but what if these APIs are written for normal jre
Apr 07 10:00:28 <Ix-Xitan> and use lets say java.io
Apr 07 10:00:41 <Ix-Xitan> which is omitted from android
Apr 07 10:01:04 <Tricky> I wonder how many entries they will receive
Apr 07 10:01:21 <davidw> Tricky, lots
Apr 07 10:01:47 <Tricky> i suppose it is too late now to start on an app
Apr 07 10:02:57 <mazzen> raidfive, mickrobk: i just thought it is the easiest way to change the theme :)
Apr 07 10:03:08 <mazzen> just change the pictures and zack, zack :D
Apr 07 10:03:15 <Ix-Xitan> the result of using other APIs is giving me back "an error has occured"
Apr 07 10:03:46 <mickrobk> mazzen, then it's completly unredistributable, unless u get everyone to reinstall their os for you
Apr 07 10:03:48 <raidfive> Tricky, you have seven days ... go go go
Apr 07 10:05:53 <mazzen> mickrobk: true, but as you surely noticed i'm really new to android (but willing to learn!). so i guess i'm in the "try, what comes in your minds" phase :)
Apr 07 10:05:56 <Tricky> i created a test class when I run it in eclipse the emulator comes up and then it says"Holle World, <Application Name>"
Apr 07 10:06:07 <Tricky> nowhere do I specify the hellow world thing
Apr 07 10:06:24 <Tricky> is that normal
Apr 07 10:06:35 <mickrobk> mazzen, :)
Apr 07 10:07:21 <zhobbs> Tricky: see the xml files in res/layout and res/values/strings.xml
Apr 07 10:09:10 <mazzen> but, am i'm right: when i think that the android.jar plus a few other things are put in the userdata-qemu.img which is generated everytime i start my android app in eclipse?
Apr 07 10:10:32 <Tricky> zhobbs, thanks I see it in strings.xml .. can I just remove it'
Apr 07 10:12:39 <Tricky> how come there is no SMS viewer in the emulator
Apr 07 10:12:54 <Tricky> surely there will be one when it ships
Apr 07 10:15:06 <davidw> damn, there are some serious issues with gtalk
Apr 07 10:15:25 <Tricky> I am writing a program that receives text messages but I dont want it to affect the SMS viewer/sender that comes with it when the phone
Apr 07 10:15:35 <Tricky> when the phone ships
Apr 07 10:16:28 <Tricky> thoughts?
Apr 07 10:17:01 <Tricky> everyone now dont talk at the same time
Apr 07 10:18:36 <mickrobk> Tricky, i'm working on a project that uses sms to communicate, all it does it look for a code in the message, if it's not there it ignores it and if it is it captures it
Apr 07 10:20:37 <Tricky> thats what I want to do .. but can I be sure that the SMS program on android will get the message and how do I block it from getting the SMS that I use for my app
Apr 07 10:21:11 <Tricky> wthat is, I want the SMS's that I am not interested in to gpass thru .. but hte ones I use I dont want it to go thru
Apr 07 10:21:23 <mickrobk> Tricky, i think we decided to worry about that when there was a sms app for android
Apr 07 10:21:38 <Tricky> ok LOL
Apr 07 10:21:47 <mickrobk> :)
Apr 07 10:22:12 <davidw> mickrobk, how's it do that? intent-filter?
Apr 07 10:22:15 <Tricky> thanks
Apr 07 10:23:35 <mickrobk> davidw, intent reciever
Apr 07 10:24:08 <davidw> ok, right but I haven't delved into that much... how do you capture/not capture
Apr 07 10:26:23 <mickrobk> it looks at all, and doensn't do anything if the code isn't there... it never prevents other applications from seeing it's sms's that come in. I'm hoping that the real sms app allows us to delete messages, but i have to admit i didn't work on that part, i don't know that there isn't already a was to do that. We really havn't worried about that part much though. For the contest, we'll prbly just simulate the sms stuff so the judg
Apr 07 10:26:23 <mickrobk> es dont have to work with ddms
Apr 07 10:31:23 <acsia> anybody has a good icon set to suggest?
Apr 07 13:26:59 <bigodines> is it possible to insert an icon in a mapview using overlay?
Apr 07 13:33:35 <acsia> yes
Apr 07 14:34:47 <michaelnovakjr> i am having some difficulty using the findViewById method
Apr 07 14:35:03 <michaelnovakjr> it returns null on all the id's that i pass it
Apr 07 14:35:16 <B0jangles> example?
Apr 07 14:35:36 <michaelnovakjr> TextView txtView = (TextView)findViewById(R.id.label1);
Apr 07 14:36:17 <B0jangles> looks right to me
Apr 07 14:36:36 <B0jangles> you're sure you have an R.id.label12
Apr 07 14:36:39 <B0jangles> 1
Apr 07 14:36:51 <michaelnovakjr> its in the xml file and the R.java file
Apr 07 14:37:05 <michaelnovakjr> does that method only look in the xml file that is set as the content view?
Apr 07 14:37:19 <B0jangles> yeah, I think so
Apr 07 14:38:02 <michaelnovakjr> i have a listview, but the contents of each row are stored separately from the layout file, its in the row section i am trying to pull a component
Apr 07 14:38:56 <B0jangles> not sure
Apr 07 14:40:44 <michaelnovakjr> is there another way to gain access to an xml element from java?
Apr 07 14:41:20 <B0jangles> I don't think so
Apr 07 14:59:45 <michaelnovakjr> the odd thing is i am loading data into the TextView using the id in the same method.
Apr 07 15:31:11 <davidw> interesting...journalist wants to chat about Android:-)
Apr 07 15:32:52 <jasta> for what publication?
Apr 07 15:37:51 <B0jangles> I talked to a guy from Wired a few weeks ago
Apr 07 15:38:29 <B0jangles> dunno if they're running the story or not
Apr 07 15:39:48 <chadkouse> zhobbs: are you there ?
Apr 07 16:14:49 <jasta> B0jangles: it would be a little premature, i'd think
Apr 07 16:15:22 <jasta> i can't believe this is the last week :)
Apr 07 16:21:03 <michaelnovakjr> anyone know where a RemoteView example lives?
Apr 07 16:22:07 <chadkouse> anyone ever played with changing the way a progress bar looks ?
Apr 07 16:22:19 <chadkouse> I can successfully set the background, but then you lose the actual progress indicator
Apr 07 16:23:23 <davidw> that round progress spinning thing has got to go:-)
Apr 07 16:24:20 <chadkouse> well I'm using the horizontal one.
Apr 07 16:24:34 <chadkouse> but I need to change the look
Apr 07 16:24:35 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i don't like the round one
Apr 07 16:25:35 <jasta> chadkouse: you need to use a leveled Drawable.
Apr 07 16:25:53 <jasta> the progress bar is implemented by using a drawable that has setLevel called, and then drawn according to its level.
Apr 07 16:26:02 <chadkouse> ahhh
Apr 07 16:26:04 <chadkouse> i see.
Apr 07 16:26:08 <chadkouse> do you have an example ?
Apr 07 16:26:23 <jasta> there is a lot of flexibility in this approach, and so you must think carefully about the best way to implement your custom drawable.
Apr 07 16:26:38 <jasta> for example, you could just implement your own and handle drawing manually, or you could use a selector list.
Apr 07 16:26:56 <jasta> chadkouse: it may be useful to examine the system APK xml files in order to figure out how leveled drawables are implemented
Apr 07 16:27:13 <chadkouse> ok thx
Apr 07 16:27:16 <jasta> which you can do with this: http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html
Apr 07 16:28:02 <chadkouse> i really appreciate your help!
Apr 07 16:30:47 <chadkouse> can you point me in the direction of which xml files I might look at ?
Apr 07 16:33:57 <chadkouse> jasta: I think I see what you mean... so I'd want to have like 100 different images to satisfy 100 different progress levels ?
Apr 07 16:36:31 <davidw> anyone else get this: I open a webview, but it doesn't... well, load the site.  I have to go back to it a second time for it to load
Apr 07 16:43:28 <michaelnovakjr> jasta is the findViewById method only looking in the file that is setContentView in the activity?
Apr 07 16:58:32 <davidw> hrm hrm hrm...
Apr 07 17:01:31 <romainguy_> re
Apr 07 17:02:03 <davidw> 'morning
Apr 07 17:03:49 <davidw> hrm... is it possible to know whether the phone is off the hook... there's definitely an intent receiver for that
Apr 07 18:10:00 <davidw> anyone successfully matched an intent-filter on android:path ?
Apr 07 18:31:08 <michaelnovakjr> anyone know of an interface builder for android?
Apr 07 18:31:39 <loic-pointgphone> droiddraw.org ?
Apr 07 18:32:48 <michaelnovakjr> cool, wasn't sure if anyone had done one yet
Apr 07 18:34:17 <B0jangles> that's cool
Apr 07 18:34:19 <jasta> hey morrildl
Apr 07 18:34:29 <B0jangles> if only I hadn't already built my interface
Apr 07 18:34:38 <jasta> i wouldn't recommend using droiddraw actually
Apr 07 18:34:48 <jasta> GUI builders lead to non-portable designs.
Apr 07 18:34:50 <morrildl> jasta: yo
Apr 07 18:35:01 <jasta> morrildl: I remember what I was going to ask you.
Apr 07 18:35:02 <romainguy_> jasta: How so?
Apr 07 18:35:10 <jasta> Will judging occur on real handsets, or on the emulator?
Apr 07 18:35:34 * davidw is guessing emulator... 
Apr 07 18:35:36 <morrildl> jasta: emulator
Apr 07 18:35:39 <B0jangles> Now that I'm looking at it, the layout looks like it's set up with X/Y coordinates
Apr 07 18:35:41 <jasta> romainguy_: Well, first off, only the AbsoluteLayout mode of that site actually works correctly.
Apr 07 18:35:42 <davidw> simply loading up a bunch of apps to test on phones would be slow
Apr 07 18:35:44 <B0jangles> that's probably not good
Apr 07 18:35:45 <morrildl> it would be evil to make you guys develop on emu and test on real
Apr 07 18:35:50 <davidw> let alone all the crashes and other junk
Apr 07 18:36:20 <B0jangles> jasta: I wouldn't say that all GUI builders are bad, though
Apr 07 18:36:24 <B0jangles> Some work pretty well
Apr 07 18:36:36 <romainguy_> it actually just loaded a pretty complex layout file for me
Apr 07 18:36:55 <B0jangles> Oh, I see how to change the layout now
Apr 07 18:36:59 <B0jangles> "Root Layout"
Apr 07 18:37:02 <jasta> well, perhaps it has been improved, but i maintain that GUI builders are not the right strategy in general.
Apr 07 18:37:11 <romainguy_> jasta: I heartily disagree
Apr 07 18:37:15 <B0jangles> That's pretty nice, actually
Apr 07 18:37:23 <B0jangles> I can see the layout in 4 different modes really quickly
Apr 07 18:37:32 <romainguy_> any decent two-way GUI builder is a real asset
Apr 07 18:37:54 <B0jangles> I have to agree. If it works well, and generates good code, a GUI builder can really come in handy
Apr 07 18:38:11 <davidw> it's got to go both ways though, which means generating something like XML or s-expressions
Apr 07 18:38:36 <davidw> if it just dumps out something that it can't read back in once you've modified it by hand, that's a problem
Apr 07 18:38:51 <jasta> I can only support a GUI builder that generates code as well as a human would, with logical factorization, and in Android's case use of styles and other complex drawing features.
Apr 07 18:39:36 <B0jangles> davidw: the separation of layout and function in Android should help that
Apr 07 18:39:38 <jasta> Most GUI builders, in my experience, puke all over your layouts and lead you to a dependence that ultimately restricts your design.
Apr 07 18:39:56 <davidw> I think android gets it basically right
Apr 07 18:40:05 <davidw> but then again.... I do all my layouts in Hecl
Apr 07 18:41:34 <jasta> I suppose, then, I dislike the generally poor quality of said tools.
Apr 07 18:42:15 <B0jangles> I vote we all write down our designs on napkins, and send them to jasta!
Apr 07 18:42:22 <B0jangles> (to implement)
Apr 07 18:42:26 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 07 18:42:44 <jasta> Hehe, I do typically do my layouts on paper :)
Apr 07 18:43:07 <jasta> I like laying out my entire app on paper before I begin actually
Apr 07 18:43:20 <B0jangles> It's a good practice
Apr 07 18:43:20 <jasta> and often hand draw flow charts hehe
Apr 07 18:43:35 <B0jangles> Lets you focus on design before worrying about implementation
Apr 07 18:43:50 <jasta> i just find that designing these things by hand in free form is more liberating and efficient.
Apr 07 18:43:54 <zhobbs> romainguy_: how would I go about changing the look of ProgressBar?
Apr 07 18:44:00 <chadkouse> lol
Apr 07 18:44:02 <jasta> even in the presence of tools to do it on the computer.
Apr 07 18:44:15 <chadkouse> zhobbs: jasta was helping me with this earlier
Apr 07 18:44:30 <jasta> zhobbs: look at framework-res/res/drawable-finger/progress* :)
Apr 07 18:44:36 <zhobbs> ok
Apr 07 18:44:41 <chadkouse> jasta:
Apr 07 18:44:49 <jasta> though there is a missing link there.  i'm sure you can figure it out, though.
Apr 07 18:44:56 <chadkouse> nm.
Apr 07 18:47:39 <zhobbs> yeah, definitely a missing link
Apr 07 18:47:55 <acsia> i tend to draw my UI on paper as well and use flipbooks for animations ;)
Apr 07 18:48:30 <jasta> zhobbs: The missing link is implemented in ProgressBar.java itself, manipulating the layered list defined by progress_horizontal.xml
Apr 07 18:48:45 <B0jangles> Oh yeah, well I have an entire, fully functional, World of Warcraft port that uses nothing but paper
Apr 07 18:48:49 <B0jangles> jk
Apr 07 18:48:49 <zhobbs> yeah, wonder if I just have to build one
Apr 07 18:49:05 <jasta> what I don't understand necessarily is what the progressbar_*_tile.png's scale
Apr 07 18:49:19 <davidw> paper?  I find that a stick and some dirt works better... it captures the real essentials and doesn't have all those frilly extras that you get with paper
Apr 07 18:49:20 <jasta> though it would seem very easy to replace them with different graphics.
Apr 07 18:49:39 <B0jangles> dirt? Pfft. Real men use water
Apr 07 18:50:28 <davidw> actually I don't bother doing much design stuff because no matter what, it ends up ugly...
Apr 07 18:51:07 <acsia> B0jangles: it is called heroes of might and magic cards
Apr 07 18:51:40 <B0jangles> acsia: oh yeah? just try playing those over TCP/IP
Apr 07 18:52:31 <acsia> B0jangles: TCP/IP??? snailmail is the way to go
Apr 07 18:53:36 <B0jangles> acsia: only if you don't know semaphore, I suppose
Apr 07 18:54:16 <B0jangles> acsia: or if you don't have a tribe of Apaches to translate into smoke signals for you
Apr 07 18:59:43 <acsia> how long is the equator in meters?
Apr 07 19:00:25 <B0jangles> 40075.0 Kilometers
Apr 07 19:00:29 <michaelnovakjr> i still keep getting a nullpointer exception with the findViewById method
Apr 07 19:00:51 <acsia> thx - did you google it or did you just know it?
Apr 07 19:01:18 <B0jangles> google
Apr 07 19:01:31 <B0jangles> what are you trying to do?
Apr 07 19:02:03 <B0jangles> I was working last week on determining if a GPS coordinate was within a bounding box, based on miles
Apr 07 19:02:11 <B0jangles> it was pretty interesting, actually
Apr 07 19:02:29 <B0jangles> because the distance between two degrees longitude is different depending on the latitude
Apr 07 19:02:41 <B0jangles> if you're at one of the poles, it can be, like a few inches
Apr 07 19:02:41 <f00f-> yeah
Apr 07 19:02:58 <pandora--> thats what she said?
Apr 07 19:03:03 <B0jangles> lol
Apr 07 19:03:06 <f00f-> the way i do a quick distance compare (sort) is to just use the norm of the distance formula as the sort function
Apr 07 19:03:31 <f00f-> using pythagorean theorem for distance can yield ~30m accuracy depending on your lat/lon
Apr 07 19:03:31 <B0jangles> I got my function to be pretty darn accurate
Apr 07 19:03:35 <f00f-> good enough for my app
Apr 07 19:03:52 <B0jangles> f00f:you'll be off by a bit because the earth's a sphere
Apr 07 19:04:00 <acsia> how would you define the zoom level for a distance in meter then
Apr 07 19:04:01 <pandora--> B0jangles: lies.
Apr 07 19:04:17 <acsia> the earth is flat, I can t beleive people are still questionning it
Apr 07 19:04:23 <B0jangles> lol
Apr 07 19:04:35 <f00f-> it's a non-issue for a simple sort
Apr 07 19:04:46 <B0jangles> yeah, depends what you're doing
Apr 07 19:04:51 <f00f-> i can accept up to 100 meter inaccuracies
Apr 07 19:05:08 <B0jangles> well, the inaccuracy will increase with increased distances
Apr 07 19:05:11 <f00f-> but for actual distance i use Location.distanceTo :)
Apr 07 19:05:29 <f00f-> yeah, in which case "far is far enough" :)
Apr 07 19:05:32 <f00f-> basically i'm doing nearby services
Apr 07 19:05:40 <f00f-> and if it's too far, forget it, user won't go there
Apr 07 19:09:44 <michaelnovakjr> does the findViewById method only worked for the single file defined in the setContentView method?
Apr 07 19:12:12 <f00f-> yes
Apr 07 19:12:20 <f00f-> that is, it is contextual
Apr 07 19:16:18 <acsia> so meter to zoom would be something alongs the line of this formula AFAIK
Apr 07 19:16:33 <acsia> 40075000/2^X = Y
Apr 07 19:16:48 <acsia> with X the zoom level and Y the zoom level in meters
Apr 07 19:17:11 <f00f-> what is the input and output?
Apr 07 19:17:47 <acsia> input would be Y (let say 1000 meters)
Apr 07 19:17:52 <acsia> X the zoom level
Apr 07 19:17:58 <f00f-> but what does it mean
Apr 07 19:18:02 <f00f-> 1000 meters?
Apr 07 19:18:11 <f00f-> the level of desired accuracy?
Apr 07 19:18:13 <f00f-> bounding area?
Apr 07 19:18:17 <acsia> let say I want to know the zoom level to fit 1000 meters into the screen
Apr 07 19:18:20 <B0jangles> f00f-: I would imagine the display area
Apr 07 19:18:36 <acsia> yes
Apr 07 19:18:52 <f00f-> gotcha
Apr 07 19:19:35 <michaelnovakjr> so, if i have two layout files, and one is set to the content view, but I want to access a view from the other one, what's the best way to go about that?
Apr 07 19:19:47 <acsia> viewinflate
Apr 07 19:49:56 <michaelnovakjr> awesome... i was able to pull the view and update the text but it doesn't show on the screen updated... i was looking for a refresh method or something of the sort? any ideas?
Apr 07 19:54:59 <loic-pointgphone> want to see a cool app? http://www.pointgphone.com/marvin-reseau-social-android-623
Apr 07 19:55:24 <loic-pointgphone> skip the text, just check the videos :)
Apr 07 20:00:02 <davidw> wow
Apr 07 20:00:47 <michaelnovakjr> ??
Apr 07 20:01:38 <loic-pointgphone> ? :)
Apr 07 20:02:59 <davidw> it's a nice app
Apr 07 20:03:19 <michaelnovakjr> is it showing you people's locations?
Apr 07 20:05:16 <davidw> damn
Apr 07 20:05:20 <davidw> this webview thing is odd
Apr 07 20:06:26 <jasta> loic-pointgphone: i like the 3d picture thing.  will your app be open source after the challenge?
Apr 07 20:07:41 <loic-pointgphone> not my app in fact
Apr 07 20:07:52 <jasta> oh
Apr 07 20:07:58 <loic-pointgphone> just my website :)
Apr 07 20:08:07 <jasta> do you know whose it is or if it will be open?
Apr 07 20:08:16 <loic-pointgphone> the app is from a friend of mine
Apr 07 20:08:45 <loic-pointgphone> don't think it'll be open
Apr 07 20:09:07 <jasta> boo, i'd like to dig into the source of the 3D picture selection.  I want to implement cover flow eventually in my music player.
Apr 07 20:09:16 <loic-pointgphone> maybe in the future but not right after the challenge
Apr 07 20:09:17 <jasta> but i have little interest in learning OpenGL :)
Apr 07 20:09:41 <B0jangles>  mapping an image onto a 3D object is pretty simple
Apr 07 20:10:02 <B0jangles> Not that I've done it in Android, but it can't be that different
Apr 07 20:10:31 <jasta> loic-pointgphone: i am hoping to release my app open source after the challenge, but i want to tidy the source a bit first.
Apr 07 20:10:48 <jasta> specifically, there's no authentication between client and server currently :)
Apr 07 20:10:58 <chomchom> loic-pointgphone: that is a nice use of the platform
Apr 07 20:11:20 <chomchom> seems like hes really embraced it, used a lot of really nice graphical features
Apr 07 20:11:29 <loic-pointgphone> yep
Apr 07 20:11:36 <loic-pointgphone> and it runs pretty fast
Apr 07 20:11:41 <jasta> chomchom: i'm hoping to create a demo video tonight :)
Apr 07 20:11:53 <chomchom> Is that tours jasta?
Apr 07 20:11:59 <chomchom> well done
Apr 07 20:12:04 <jasta> tours?  what?
Apr 07 20:12:10 <davidw> anyone else use WebView?
Apr 07 20:12:10 <chomchom> yours even
Apr 07 20:12:21 <jasta> mine has not been demonstrated anywhere yet
Apr 07 20:12:21 <loic-pointgphone> jasta : dont hesitate to send me the link :)
Apr 07 20:12:52 <zhobbs> doesn't the performance of the emulator in that video seem TOO good?
Apr 07 20:13:05 <chomchom> oh right, I thought you were eluding to the pointgphone
Apr 07 20:13:14 <jasta> zhobbs: I was wondering that too.  looks like it was sped up or something?
Apr 07 20:13:17 <loic-pointgphone> well optimised i'd say
Apr 07 20:13:31 <davidw> the video was optimized you mean;-)
Apr 07 20:13:40 <zhobbs> maybe just a high end box...emulator doesn't perform like that for me doing anything
Apr 07 20:13:46 <jasta> me neither.
Apr 07 20:14:03 <loic-pointgphone> mac pro i think
Apr 07 20:14:05 <michaelnovakjr> i am on a macbook pro with 2 gigs of ram and i am not getting that performance
Apr 07 20:14:06 <jasta> the emulator actually kind of sucks on my main box.  it's fine, but i don't think it gives a good impression of how the platform performs.
Apr 07 20:14:14 <chomchom> Absolutely, I bought a new mac and the performance of the emulator is tenfold
Apr 07 20:14:55 <jasta> oddly, the emulator performs noticably better on my work box
Apr 07 20:15:11 <jasta> which is a Dell Vostro 200, with less, lower performing RAM than my desktop
Apr 07 20:15:14 <jasta> and an inferior processor (barely)
Apr 07 20:15:19 <loic-pointgphone> depends on the installed OS too
Apr 07 20:15:20 <jasta> with the same operating system
Apr 07 20:15:35 <loic-pointgphone> i noticed it runs better on linux
Apr 07 20:15:44 <jasta> loic-pointgphone: Both were Ubuntu Linux
Apr 07 20:15:56 <jasta> the vostro runs it way smoother, but is definitely a lower performing computer.
Apr 07 20:16:00 <loic-pointgphone> ok, strange so :)
Apr 07 20:16:12 <zhobbs> jasta: AMD / Intel ?
Apr 07 20:16:22 <jasta> i mean, it's noticably slower.  my daily activity doesn't differ much between home and work, and i would say my home computer is much faster.
Apr 07 20:16:25 <jasta> but it runs the emulator slower.
Apr 07 20:16:51 <jasta> zhobbs: The home machine is an Athlon X2 4400+, work is a Core2 4300
Apr 07 20:17:03 <zhobbs> hmm
Apr 07 20:17:07 <michaelnovakjr> hell yea, amd
Apr 07 20:17:27 <jasta> now, i suspect some of my "performance" observations are based on the fact that my home computer has a monster of a video card :)
Apr 07 20:17:34 <jasta> and so powers the Compiz desktop much, much better.
Apr 07 20:17:45 <jasta> which probably doesn't translate to any performance gain in the emulator.
Apr 07 20:18:18 <jasta> and my home computer's disk is slower, and the motherboard is older.
Apr 07 20:19:41 <jasta> anyway, when StarCraft II comes out, I will buy a new home machine :)
Apr 07 20:19:48 <jasta> hopefully that will improve the emulator hehe
Apr 07 20:20:02 <jasta> but will almost certainly be a detriment to my productivity with it.
Apr 07 20:21:47 <michaelnovakjr> if i modify an ImageView with the viewinflate, does it have to be refreshed to show up on the screen?
Apr 07 20:22:17 <chomchom> so Jasta, are you going to give us some screenies or are you going the full video hog?
Apr 07 20:22:40 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: ViewInflate doesn't necessarily attach the view to the activity.  Check your usage carefully.
Apr 07 20:22:52 <jasta> chomchom: I have one screenshot I took last night, but it doesn't show much
Apr 07 20:23:13 <jasta> the video would be better
Apr 07 20:23:21 <jasta> http://picasaweb.google.com/jasta00/Test/photo#5186268422489938898 -- but there it is anyway
Apr 07 20:23:32 <michaelnovakjr> chomchom, i changed some values but they don't display to the screen.... is that not the best method of modifying exists Views?
Apr 07 20:23:41 <michaelnovakjr> they showed up in the debugger
Apr 07 20:24:21 <chomchom> Cjasta: oh yeah I saw that, it looks nice
Apr 07 20:24:29 <zhobbs> jasta: looks nice
Apr 07 20:25:13 <chomchom> michaelno: try invalidating the view
Apr 07 20:29:07 <Zorg> sorry
Apr 07 20:29:26 <jasta> zhobbs: i think a video would better demonstrate what it does...
Apr 07 20:29:33 <jasta> i want to specifically capture the sync engine at work :)
Apr 07 20:29:47 <chomchom> I know I've asked before, but I'll ask again, is there anyone in here from the UK? If so would they like to meetup after the submission? We can all trade war stories.
Apr 07 20:30:50 <loic-pointgphone> Marvin's author -> Zorg
Apr 07 20:30:57 <loic-pointgphone> if you want to ask questions :)
Apr 07 20:31:36 <Zorg> no the video was not accelerated :)
Apr 07 20:31:43 <jasta> Zorg: will you be releasing source to any part of your app after the challenge?
Apr 07 20:31:56 <Zorg> I have no idea Jasta
Apr 07 20:33:28 <Zorg> By default I would say no, but it could be fun to open it sure.
Apr 07 20:33:52 <jasta> I'm specifically interested in how you did the picture selection.
Apr 07 20:33:54 <Zorg> that would be the best way to dramatically improve it
Apr 07 20:34:01 <jasta> I like that effect, and would find osmething similar useful in my music player app.
Apr 07 20:34:05 <Zorg> Marvin Self ?
Apr 07 20:34:07 <Zorg> well
Apr 07 20:34:24 <Zorg> I started on this part in fact to play arround
Apr 07 20:34:27 <jasta> i especially like the glassy reflection :)
Apr 07 20:34:59 <Zorg> made some abstraction layer on top of opengl to be able to code more without typing glcommands for each line
Apr 07 20:35:13 <Zorg> I like it too :)
Apr 07 20:35:25 <Zorg> did you see the nice bleuish reflection ? :)
Apr 07 20:36:05 <Zorg> I wanted to do a cover flow like file picker... named it "cover blow" in fact
Apr 07 20:36:14 <Zorg> but I changed my mind
Apr 07 20:36:16 <Zorg> :)
Apr 07 20:37:24 <jasta> hmm, i'd love to stare at the code.  i've never done any 3D programming for android or otherwise.
Apr 07 20:37:35 <chomchom> yeah, I was impressed with that
Apr 07 20:37:52 <chomchom> will make a difference to an end user
Apr 07 20:38:03 <jasta> i don't think cover flow makes sense for my project yet, and actually i don't like the way cover flow is used on the iPhone, but something similar could be useflu.
Apr 07 20:38:15 <jasta> like maybe cover flow just showing a visualization of your recent favorite albums
Apr 07 20:38:21 <jasta> so you can quickly select them
Apr 07 20:38:56 <jasta> Apple thinks too small for me :)  I have 85GB of music ;)
Apr 07 20:39:14 <Zorg> I'm sure there will be something by default at the end provided with the system...
Apr 07 20:40:42 <jasta> i don't think so.  i bet the OHA will avoid directly copying anything apple has done.
Apr 07 20:41:11 <jasta> leaving it up to the less targetable open source community ;)
Apr 07 20:41:31 <Zorg> How many of you did submit something already?
Apr 07 20:41:37 <Zorg> I didn't
Apr 07 20:41:40 <jasta> I haven't, I'm not ready.
Apr 07 20:42:00 <jasta> I will be using every last second.  Probably will submit the night of the 14th.
Apr 07 20:42:14 <Zorg> Avoid the rush
Apr 07 20:42:14 <f00f-> i have not submitted anything.
Apr 07 20:42:16 <Zorg> :)
Apr 07 20:42:21 <chomchom> jasta: for the listadapter that displays the images on the left hand side, did you roll your own or did you base it off the one from anddev?
Apr 07 20:42:23 <f00f-> i will pre something on sat/sunday
Apr 07 20:42:28 <jasta> Zorg: i'm not rushing, necessarily.  there's a lot of QA to do still.
Apr 07 20:42:28 <f00f-> docfix submit again on monday
Apr 07 20:42:54 <jasta> chomchom: i used the SimpleCursorAdapter for that part in particular.  the whole list effect is my AlphabetListView though.
Apr 07 20:43:11 <Zorg> JAsta I mean, maybe a lot of people will submit at the last minute... but I guess gogle infrastructure will handle the load :)
Apr 07 20:43:19 <jasta> Zorg: Oh, I'm sure :)
Apr 07 20:43:24 <jasta> wouldn't skip a beat
Apr 07 20:44:21 <chomchom> Ah the cursor adapter, good call
Apr 07 21:04:55 <jasta> romainguy_: how does the progressbar_fill_tile actually work?  I realize that setLevel is called, but why does setLevel cause it to scale and/or repeat?  Isn't it just a BitmapDrawable?
Apr 07 21:05:24 <zhobbs> setLevel repeats the drawable all the way to that position I think
Apr 07 21:05:39 <jasta> but why?  what's responsible for that?
Apr 07 21:05:51 <zhobbs> it's a method of Drawable
Apr 07 21:08:55 <jasta> it is?  i'm looking at the code now...
Apr 07 21:09:01 <jasta> trying to figure out what sort of voodoo this is
Apr 07 21:09:10 <zhobbs> yeah, I'm trying to figure it out also
Apr 07 21:09:43 <zhobbs> I think I'm just going to override onDraw() and manage a LayerDrawable myself
Apr 07 21:10:57 <jasta> actually, i don't think so; i think View does this.
Apr 07 21:11:32 <jasta> though i cant find any evidence to support that :)
Apr 07 21:11:40 <jasta> hmm.  i just don't get it.
Apr 07 21:18:42 <romainguy_> jasta: it's just using a BitmapShader with a TileMode.REPEAT
Apr 07 21:20:45 <jasta> romainguy_: where/how is that being specified though?
Apr 07 21:21:40 <zhobbs> jasta: setLevel() : http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/graphics/drawable/Drawable.html#setLevel(int)
Apr 07 21:22:09 <romainguy_> jasta: what is?
Apr 07 21:22:19 <jasta> romainguy_: the bitmap shader.
Apr 07 21:22:32 <romainguy_> it's setup in the code
Apr 07 21:22:34 <romainguy_> it's part of Paint
Apr 07 21:23:21 <jasta> ahh.
Apr 07 21:23:26 <jasta> ok, thanks
Apr 07 21:24:22 <jasta> Paint does a lot :)
Apr 07 21:25:32 <romainguy_> yep
Apr 07 21:25:57 <jasta> so if you were trying to implement your own progress bar based a static color and not a bitmap, what sort of drawable would you use?
Apr 07 21:26:04 <jasta> based on*
Apr 07 21:26:17 <romainguy_> a ShapeDrawable?
Apr 07 21:26:22 <jasta> seems like you'd just use a shape right?
Apr 07 21:26:29 <jasta> ahh ok
Apr 07 21:26:35 <romainguy_> why would you want to implement your own progress bar?
Apr 07 21:26:57 <jasta> i didn't mean ProgressBar, i just meant your own appearance.
Apr 07 21:27:45 <jasta> i want a progress bar to indicate buffering in my main UI, but the graphics for the default drawable make the UI too cluttered.  a simple background color change across the entire row is what i'm looking for.
Apr 07 21:27:47 <romainguy_> just pass a solid color then
Apr 07 21:29:51 <jasta> i'll figure it out, actually, i was pretty sure how i'd do it already i just got curious how level affected drawing in this case.
Apr 07 21:35:32 <zhobbs> I wish I knew more about android.R.attr.progressBarStyleHorizontal
Apr 07 21:36:02 <zhobbs> android.R.attr is still a mystery for me
Apr 07 21:37:34 <romainguy_> attrs is where we define the attributes you can use in XML files
Apr 07 21:39:54 <jasta> i think his question is: why can we style something with android.R.attr?  how does attr define default attributes?
Apr 07 21:40:11 <jasta> i always thought it just defined what attributes you can set, not what they are by default.
Apr 07 21:40:32 <zhobbs> and I'd like to see the definition for android.R.attr.progressBarStyleHorizontal or a lot of the different style attr's
Apr 07 21:41:25 <romainguy_> jasta: attrs doesn't define the default values
Apr 07 21:41:44 <jasta> romainguy_: then why does textAppearance="?android:attr/textAppearanceLarge" change the font and color?
Apr 07 21:42:27 <romainguy_> ? just says "grab the values in styles.xml that match the attribute name attr/textAppearanceLarge"
Apr 07 21:42:33 <romainguy_> these values are *not* in attrs
Apr 07 21:42:38 <romainguy_> they are in the theme/style
Apr 07 21:42:41 <jasta> oh.
Apr 07 21:42:47 <jasta> see, that makes much more sense ;)
Apr 07 21:42:47 <zhobbs> hmm
Apr 07 21:42:57 <zhobbs> except for the android:attr part :)
Apr 07 21:44:02 <jasta> romainguy_: so what would the textAppearanceLarge style actually look like if i was to define it manually?
Apr 07 21:44:30 <zhobbs> and where can I find these themes?
Apr 07 21:44:37 <jasta> or rather, when you say "match the attribute", what specifically is being matched?  where is the attribute named in styles.xml?9$
Apr 07 21:44:40 <jasta> styles.xml?*
Apr 07 21:45:32 <romainguy_> textAppearanceLarge is an item in theme.ml that references a style in styles.xml
Apr 07 21:45:51 <romainguy_> and that style contains, in this case, just a bunch of text attributes
Apr 07 21:45:52 <jasta> theme.xml?  this is the first time i'm hearing of such a file.
Apr 07 21:47:40 <jasta> what would that file look like?
Apr 07 21:49:12 <jasta> the ApiDemos has some mention of this feature, but it seems like it is not sufficient for us to understand it completely.
Apr 07 21:49:34 <jasta> for example, the relationship between attr/textAppearanceLarge and a style is not clear in the ApiDemos package.
Apr 07 21:49:45 <zhobbs> jasta: I've seen it when creating custom views that can take custom attributes
Apr 07 21:50:05 <jasta> zhobbs: Right, but that doesn't tell us how attr and style relate at all.
Apr 07 21:54:00 <chomchom> Man, I just booted up the old emulator skin, that little qwerty keyboard stubby looking one. It's worth taking your app through all the variations guys to check how it renders on the different screens. Mine bombed for the most part :).
Apr 07 21:54:35 <zhobbs> no time for that :(
Apr 07 21:55:21 <chomchom> It's funny to think people are actually discussing the prototype model as if it were anything but a prototype; "I hope they come out with a better looking phone"... like everyone in google is blind.
Apr 07 21:56:06 <zhobbs> well google isn't building the hardware, don't even know if they're giving any direction for the hardware
Apr 07 21:58:16 <chomchom> surely they will have some license to push some weight into preferable models, I don't for a minute think they are going to rest the respectability, quality and service associated with their brand on a cheap £10 knock off. I'm betting that their moolah will go into marketing companies models that meet their aims, with whom they will work with to develop bespoke software.
Apr 07 21:59:06 <chomchom> Even if its a very low level of bespoke functionality it will be in their interests to cradle their baby until it can crawl
Apr 07 21:59:13 <zhobbs> well initially only OHA companies can release phones
Apr 07 21:59:41 <zhobbs> and the OHA companies are legit and wouldn't want to release crap
Apr 07 22:00:20 <chomchom> yeah, I think they'll look pretty good. I even liked just the screen on the board at the barcelona show.
Apr 07 22:08:26 <davidw> zhobbs, they're definitely giving directions to the manufacturers
Apr 07 22:08:29 <davidw> well, working with them
Apr 07 22:08:43 <davidw> that's why no sources until the phones come out (from what I understand)
Apr 07 22:09:01 <davidw> they don't want some crappy implementation to come out and spoil everyone's idea of it
Apr 07 22:09:43 <davidw> sleep time for me in any case
Apr 07 22:16:19 <zhobbs> http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/04/07/htc.dream.possible.news/
Apr 07 22:20:16 <morrildl> neat
Apr 07 22:22:51 <jasta> romainguy_: see, the magic kind of breaks down if I use a shape drawable for the progress.  It draws as though the progress was at maximum always.
Apr 07 22:23:00 <jasta> Presumably because shape drawables don't interpret levels at all.
Apr 07 22:23:15 <jasta> i just used <shape><solid /></shape> for the drawable
Apr 07 22:28:23 <jasta> looks like a scale drawable would work, but how...hmmm
Apr 07 22:29:08 <romainguy_> just use a color as the drawable
Apr 07 22:29:20 <zhobbs> I'm trying to do a LayerDrawable with a BitmapDrawable for each layer, and the top layer moves across the screen as the progress progresses
Apr 07 22:29:33 <zhobbs> no level required
Apr 07 22:29:45 <jasta> romainguy_: oh, a color is a drawable :)
Apr 07 22:29:48 <romainguy_> yes :)
Apr 07 22:31:46 <zhobbs> romainguy_: do the layers in a LayerDrawable need to be the same dimensions?
Apr 07 22:32:13 <romainguy_> no
Apr 07 22:32:19 <romainguy_> but they will be given the same bounds at runtime
Apr 07 22:32:36 <jasta> romainguy_: Using colors.xml had the same effect as making a shape with a solid fill color.
Apr 07 22:37:38 <raidfive> Does anyone know if it is possible to change the link color of the links created using Linkfy?
Apr 07 22:37:51 <raidfive> the dark blue is really hard to see with the default android theme
Apr 07 23:04:10 <rhett> hey androiders
Apr 07 23:04:26 <rhett> how is everyone doing with the deadline?
Apr 07 23:05:29 <rhett> busy, i guess :)
Apr 07 23:05:34 <zhobbs> yep :)
Apr 07 23:07:13 <pandora--> deadline for the challenge?
Apr 07 23:07:14 <jasta> romainguy_: there is more magic here somewhere.  Why, for example, are the edges rounded on the progress bar?
Apr 07 23:07:23 <jasta> rhett: very :)
Apr 07 23:07:23 * pandora-- hasn't followed things much in the past month
Apr 07 23:07:54 <zhobbs> jasta: see createDrawableForTile(Drawable, bool)
Apr 07 23:07:55 <romainguy_> jasta: progressbar just uses a rounded rectangle and fills it with a Paint that has a bitmap shader
Apr 07 23:09:09 <zhobbs> romainguy_: how do I move a smaller top layer around?  Using setLayerInset()?
Apr 07 23:09:52 <jasta> romainguy_: really?  so res/drawable-finger/progress_horizontal.xml is not it?
Apr 07 23:10:42 <zhobbs> jasta: I think it uses that
Apr 07 23:11:05 <jasta> then where is this rounded rectangle shape coming from?
Apr 07 23:13:15 <zhobbs> jasta: hehe, not sure...I don't really understand why getBackground() is returning a LayerDrawable in the constructor
Apr 07 23:13:33 <jasta> romainguy_: all i'm ultimately trying to do is to use a progressbar and draw it as simply a progressing single color.
Apr 07 23:13:55 <jasta> zhobbs: well, progress_horizontal.xml is a layer drawable, and looking at ProgressBar.java, it makes sense that it what is being used.
Apr 07 23:14:12 <jasta> It's just that the magic of the tiled paint and rounded rectangle is not apparent.  Where is that coming from, and how to change it?
Apr 07 23:14:38 <zhobbs> Ahh...I need to look at progress_horizontal.xml
Apr 07 23:16:35 <rhett> is it possible to schedule an sms that gets sent even after the app closes?
Apr 07 23:17:19 <jasta> rhett: you could use an alarmmanager.  or a service (probably not the best idea)
Apr 07 23:17:42 <rhett> alamermmanager can do this?
Apr 07 23:18:27 <zhobbs> alarmmanager can trigger any Intent
Apr 07 23:18:31 <jasta> the alarm service can wake your app with an intentreceiver.
Apr 07 23:18:45 <jasta> and in that intentreceiver, you can do what you need to do.
Apr 07 23:18:51 <zhobbs> yeah, it can broadcast any intent
Apr 07 23:19:39 <jasta> zhobbs: i'm making no progress here :)
Apr 07 23:19:42 <rhett> zhobbs are you submitting a few apps?
Apr 07 23:19:47 <rhett> mosey code, etc.?
Apr 07 23:19:52 <jasta> no pun in tended :\
Apr 07 23:19:53 <jasta> intended*
Apr 07 23:20:08 <zhobbs> hehe
Apr 07 23:20:34 <zhobbs> I'm getting closer...but I'm not doing the level fill so it's a little easier
Apr 07 23:20:36 <jasta> zhobbs: I can easily change the graphics by just adjusting progress_horizontal and setting tat as the background
Apr 07 23:20:47 <jasta> but i can't seem to do this a) efficiently, and b) without the rounded rectangle
Apr 07 23:20:57 <zhobbs> right
Apr 07 23:21:41 <zhobbs> I'm having trouble with the efficiency part because it's generating all that stuff whether I want to use it or not...was thinking about just inheriting view
Apr 07 23:22:39 <jasta> yeah honestly, for my usage, i could just write my own widget entirely that inherited from View.  i just don't want to.
Apr 07 23:22:59 <jasta> it avoids the android platform instead of embracing it :)
Apr 07 23:23:41 <zhobbs> yeah, just talking about drives romainguy_ crazy :)
Apr 07 23:23:55 <chomchom> You know the back button on the phone?
Apr 07 23:24:01 <chomchom> Is it wise to rely on that?
Apr 07 23:24:16 <jasta> zhobbs: i don't think he cares about us right now :)
Apr 07 23:24:18 <chomchom> I mean I have some screens that you venture into via another, like a sub activity
Apr 07 23:24:43 <chomchom> and right now I don't have a <back button to get back on the screen
Apr 07 23:24:52 <chomchom> I rely on the user to click the back button
Apr 07 23:24:58 <jasta> chomchom: I think you should be able to rely on the back button.  Even if some devices don't have a back button, Android must provide some way to navigate the stack.  even if it's just a button they put in the default title bar.
Apr 07 23:24:59 <chomchom> what do you guys think?
Apr 07 23:25:15 <zhobbs> chomchom: seems like that will be the normal way to use apps on android...users will be used to it
Apr 07 23:26:11 <chomchom> hmm, I'm thinking about the most average of users, even though there is a back button on your browser usually there is always a navigational < back displayed in the form of breadcrumbs or something
Apr 07 23:26:29 <chomchom> will my gran know to push back
Apr 07 23:27:00 <jasta> honestly, i wouldn't design your app to that level just yet.  Android is still changing so much.
Apr 07 23:27:21 <jasta> make it useful given the conventions of the current SDK, and then I think you are fine.
Apr 07 23:27:21 <chomchom> true
Apr 07 23:27:47 <jasta> you're just along for the ride, afterall :)
Apr 07 23:27:52 <chomchom> While we are on the subject
Apr 07 23:28:10 <chomchom> One of my activities does not respond to the back button
Apr 07 23:28:20 <chomchom> any ideas why this may be
Apr 07 23:29:20 <zhobbs> are you returning true/false in the onKeyDown?
Apr 07 23:30:04 <zhobbs> if you return true then back will be ignored
Apr 07 23:30:12 <chomchom> hmm, maybe I haven't called the super
Apr 07 23:30:19 <f00f-> ya
Apr 07 23:37:34 <jasta> romainguy_: I'm stuck here, please don't make write a custom View :)
Apr 07 23:37:39 <jasta> make me*
Apr 07 23:43:08 <zhobbs> mine works, but it's a hack
Apr 07 23:43:52 <jasta> well i know how i'd hack it :)
Apr 07 23:44:09 <jasta> i'd actually just extend Drawable to hack it, and paint myself.
Apr 07 23:52:22 <jasta> zhobbs: oh i see what you mean by createDrawableForTile.  ProgressBar filters the background you send it.
Apr 07 23:52:26 <jasta> in code
Apr 07 23:52:36 <jasta> ohhh, tsk tsk :)
Apr 07 23:52:44 <jasta> this is all hardcoded.  i will need to extend ProgressBar just to reverse this.
Apr 07 23:53:07 <zhobbs> :)
Apr 07 23:53:42 <jasta> well at least i understand it now.
Apr 07 23:53:49 <zhobbs> my problem now is that those methods are being called (refreshProgress(), createDrawableForTile(), etc) and I'm not using the results of their work
Apr 07 23:53:59 <jasta> i sure wish createDrawableForTile was protected ;P
Apr 07 23:54:04 <zhobbs> yes!!
Apr 07 23:54:34 <jasta> i'm really shocked to see this hardcoded in the ProgressBar widget.
Apr 07 23:54:40 <jasta> that is very unlike Android
Apr 07 23:55:04 <jasta> in light of this, maybe it is appropriate to extend View and just forget the ProgressBar.
Apr 07 23:55:16 <zhobbs> yep, that's the conclusion I came too...
Apr 07 23:55:32 <zhobbs> more of those methods need to be protected
Apr 07 23:55:51 <jasta> well, really, they shouldn't exist.  it should just use the drawable system somehow.
Apr 07 23:56:03 <jasta> i'm sure that it can't right now, but it should evolve toward not being hard-coded :)
Apr 07 23:56:45 <jasta> i think inheriting ProgressBar may still be appropriate, I will just not use a LayerDrawable as the background, so that none of this code runs.
Apr 07 23:58:21 <zhobbs> yeah, that would work
Apr 08 00:01:28 <zhobbs> hmm, I could setBackground() to a non LayerDrawable then setProgress then setBackground() back to my LayerDrawable :)
Apr 08 00:01:47 <zhobbs> well, call super.setProgress in my setProgress()
Apr 08 00:02:39 <jasta> i might actually make mine animate too :)
Apr 08 00:03:02 <jasta> so it'll appear to smooth scroll even when it shouldn't really
Apr 08 00:10:17 <zhobbs> Drawable tmp_bg = getBackground();
Apr 08 00:10:18 <zhobbs> 		setBackground(mDummyBg);
Apr 08 00:10:18 <zhobbs> 		super.setProgress(progress);
Apr 08 00:10:18 <zhobbs> 		setBackground(tmp_bg);
Apr 08 00:10:52 <zhobbs> wonder if that helps
Apr 08 00:11:13 <romainguy_> jasta: this is all hardcoded.  i will need to extend ProgressBar just to reverse this. << this is pending work to be done on ShapeDrawable
Apr 08 00:19:14 <jasta> romainguy_: it's ok, at least i understand it now.  i know how to proceed.
Apr 08 00:34:39 <jasta> romainguy_: thanks anyway :)
Apr 08 00:57:12 <chomchom> so jasta anywhere near that demo?
Apr 08 01:05:49 <jasta> i havent even gotten off work yet, sheesh :)
Apr 08 01:08:32 <chomchom> dearie me
Apr 08 01:09:03 <jasta> i'm gonna get this progress bar thing done first anyway.  i hate the buffering progress bar i have in there now :)
Apr 08 01:10:09 <chomchom> It's 8 minutes past 2 here so I don't think I'll be getting much more done tonight. Yeah, I was going to do screen shots tonight but I'll wait until I'm done with this UI stuff. Although I seem to have broken everything in my haste to beautify it.
Apr 08 01:10:29 <jasta> hehe, its 6pm here :)
Apr 08 01:10:32 <jasta> i have plenty of time tonight :)
Apr 08 01:10:48 <chomchom> gar
Apr 08 01:12:22 <jasta> romainguy_: hmm, a thought occurs.  Would it be possible to use a shader to draw the progress bar through the text of the song?
Apr 08 01:13:08 <jasta> that is, not use a progress bar at all, but a Shader over the TextView
Apr 08 01:13:59 <jasta> that would be sweet :P
Apr 08 01:33:54 <jasta> teehee, this will work :)
Apr 08 01:34:19 <chomchom> yeah that will be cool
Apr 08 01:40:06 <jasta> actually i wonder if this is practical.  in order to look good it would need to animate smoothly and i can't afford animations at the time this code will be running.
Apr 08 01:40:18 <jasta> the processor is already squashed by the tremendous amount of work its been asked to do
Apr 08 01:41:30 <michaelnovakjr> i've never been a fan of extra animation.... i will admit it looks good, but from an optimization point of view, if the animation doesn't serve a concrete UI purpose it can really hinder the application
Apr 08 01:41:47 <michaelnovakjr> but i am sure there's a line of people who'd disagree
Apr 08 01:44:45 <jasta> well, in this case the animation is to work around the fact that there really isn't that much data to use.
Apr 08 01:45:07 <jasta> the buffer is usually full in 3 updates, and so it goes like 0%, 30%, 60%, done.
Apr 08 01:45:12 <jasta> it seems really jerky
Apr 08 01:45:25 <jasta> and also, the progress is changing colors, so when its done the colors just reset and that seems awkward too
Apr 08 01:45:29 <michaelnovakjr> its fairly large intervals
Apr 08 01:45:55 <jasta> but i dont know that i can even afford an animation here truthfully
Apr 08 01:46:14 <michaelnovakjr> will it slow down your buffering?
Apr 08 01:46:43 <jasta> the progress bar is indicating the buffer fill before a song can play.  for whatever reason, with all my service communication, TCP overhead, etc, it seems to destroy performance of the device for a few moments.
Apr 08 01:46:52 <jasta> the few moments that are needed to display buffer update :)
Apr 08 01:47:08 <jasta> so i really should be thinking of economical approaches :)
Apr 08 01:48:51 <michaelnovakjr> true... its totally a great idea as an application... i would find myself using it very often
Apr 08 01:49:02 <jasta> mine?
Apr 08 01:49:06 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 08 01:49:17 <jasta> yeah, i'm pleased with how it's coming together too.  i really think this thing is going to work.
Apr 08 01:49:45 <jasta> it's much more than a proof-of-concept right now too.  it does its basic job, but it looks good doing it :)
Apr 08 01:49:55 <jasta> it is, however, woefully inefficient.
Apr 08 01:50:07 <zhobbs> jasta: you extending progressbar?
Apr 08 01:50:22 <michaelnovakjr> you can always optimize it later
Apr 08 01:50:22 <jasta> zhobbs: No, I had a new idea ;)
Apr 08 01:50:38 <michaelnovakjr> plus, once you get your hands on a handset you'll really get an idea on improvements
Apr 08 01:50:40 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: Right, that was my plan.  Most of the opts are obvious, but are somewhat non-trivial or difficult to debug.
Apr 08 01:50:49 <jasta> For example, I don't use WbXML yet because I would find it difficult to troubleshoot.
Apr 08 01:50:59 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 08 01:51:35 <jasta> zhobbs: I'm using a Shader to adjust a TextView's paint so the "progress" is indicated in the text itself :)
Apr 08 01:51:40 <jasta> kind of bleeding in color
Apr 08 01:52:20 <zhobbs> interesting, look forward to seeing it :)
Apr 08 01:52:32 <jasta> yeah, it looks really nice i gotta admit.  i have it up already in a very crude wya.
Apr 08 01:52:52 <jasta> i'm just extending a TextView and fiddling with its paint ;)
Apr 08 01:53:09 <jasta> i think it'll look nice in my UI, since a progress bar would seem intrusive anyway
Apr 08 02:06:56 <jasta> it occurs to me now that actually the best place to put this shader is in the little play icon hehe
Apr 08 02:07:28 <jasta> that way, i dont even need to animate to.  i can have it show up in like a gray color and "fill up" to the orange its supposed to be
Apr 08 02:08:40 <zhobbs> jasta: are you fetching the album covers from amazon?
Apr 08 02:08:50 <jasta> no, last.fm, which sometimes includes references there
Apr 08 02:09:03 <jasta> last.fm's web services are awesome :P
Apr 08 02:09:11 <jasta> and they don't require developer keys or any such nonsense
Apr 08 02:14:17 <jasta> ok, time to head home...
Apr 08 02:15:17 <chomchom> and time for my bed
Apr 08 02:15:21 <chomchom> nighty
Apr 08 02:34:52 <morrildl> it's quiet here in the off-hours :)
Apr 08 02:35:11 <romainguy_> yes :)
Apr 08 02:35:16 <jtoy> can anyone help me with a stupid problem?  I have code that was working fine, and now all of a sudden when i run it on my machine, the app never starts, but if I run the exact code on another machine, it runs fine, I have also used -wipe-data on my emulator, so I don't know ow to fix this problem
Apr 08 02:39:20 <michaelnovakjr> what's your log say
Apr 08 02:40:15 <michaelnovakjr> jtoy, did you run adb logcat?
Apr 08 02:45:19 <michaelnovakjr> any sample code of LinearGradients?
Apr 08 02:47:38 <sudoer> i got disconnected, does anyone know how I can debug my problem?
Apr 08 02:47:40 <sudoer> about the emulator issue?
Apr 08 02:47:57 <michaelnovakjr> have you looked at your log?
Apr 08 02:49:33 <sudoer> yes, the error  Iget is    : unable to opt direct call 0x00bd at 0x34 in Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUpload;.createContactsFile,  access denied from Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUploadService$Stub$Proxy; to field Lcom/sanbit/android/mystats/FileUploadService;.record
Apr 08 02:49:56 <michaelnovakjr> you are working with contacts?
Apr 08 02:50:05 <sudoer> the my phone displays "activity not responding"
Apr 08 02:50:06 <sudoer> yes
Apr 08 02:50:18 <michaelnovakjr> it looks like a permissions
Apr 08 02:51:09 <sudoer> hmm, it was working fine the past couple of weeks, the permissions I have are :   <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.READ_CONTACTS" />   <uses-permission android:name="android.permission.RECEIVE_SMS" /><uses-permission android:name="android.permission.CALL_PHONE" />
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 08 02:59:56 2008