**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 08 02:59:56 2008
Apr 08 03:00:54 <sudoer> michaelnovakjr:  even with blocking out all that code for the contacts, my app stil lwont run
Apr 08 03:01:33 <michaelnovakjr> hmmm, did your log output change at all?
Apr 08 03:03:01 <sudoer> it seems to be going crazy now,  I'm going to do some more testing
Apr 08 03:03:13 <morrildl> sudoer: are you doing any network accesses?
Apr 08 03:03:43 <sudoer> yes, there is some network access involved, but that is running in its own thread via services, so not sure why my app would get affected
Apr 08 03:04:16 <morrildl> activity not responding happens when the system adds an event to your app's event queue, and you don't clear it within 5 seconds
Apr 08 03:04:33 <sudoer> I'm getting repeats of this error: W/ActivityManager(  859): Timeout of broadcast BroadcastRecord{401ae348 android.intent.action.PHONE_STATE}
Apr 08 03:04:33 <morrildl> so, something is blocking for longer than 5 seconds
Apr 08 03:04:33 <sudoer> W/ActivityManager(  859): Receiver during timeout: ResolveInfo{401ae1a0 com.sanbit.android.mystats.CallPopupIntentReceiver p=0 o=0 m=10000}
Apr 08 03:04:57 <sudoer> but the only thing that intentreceiver does is run this line:       Log.d(LOG, "Starting app...");
Apr 08 03:05:26 <michaelnovakjr> isn't it Log.d("LOG", "Starting app..."); ?
Apr 08 03:05:36 <michaelnovakjr> unless that's a variable
Apr 08 03:05:48 <sudoer> yes,  private static final String LOG = "callPopupIntentReceiver";
Apr 08 03:12:28 <morrildl> neat
Apr 08 03:12:33 <morrildl> that's an error from the Dalvik optimizer
Apr 08 03:12:54 <jtoy> did I miss anything? my connection was lost again
Apr 08 03:13:28 <morrildl> jtoy: are you using third-party libraries?
Apr 08 03:13:32 <morrildl> like, including a jar?
Apr 08 03:13:37 <jtoy> I dont get any errors when i disable the network code, but my app still freezes
Apr 08 03:13:48 <jtoy> no, all the code is in the android sdk
Apr 08 03:14:22 <morrildl> what is the signature of the function you are calling?
Apr 08 03:14:27 <morrildl> the one that hangs
Apr 08 03:15:12 <jtoy> umm, I don't se in the logs where is says the function, let me past it, hold on a sec
Apr 08 03:15:53 <morrildl> see if 'adb bugreport' gives you any additional info
Apr 08 03:17:03 <jtoy> wow, adb bugreport prints out a lot of stuff
Apr 08 03:17:16 <jtoy> here is the adb logcat: http://pastie.org/176994
Apr 08 03:18:31 <benley> iwpta "adb lolcat"
Apr 08 03:23:06 <Kuja> logcat is log
Apr 08 03:23:59 <jtoy> the logfile doesnt show me anything thing helpful :(
Apr 08 03:24:29 <zhobbs> what is the name of the default window background? (grey with lines)
Apr 08 03:25:41 <jtoy> and my cpu goes to 100% when my app doesnt load
Apr 08 03:29:05 <jasta> what the hell is a Matrix.  how flexible is this system for animations?
Apr 08 03:29:35 <morrildl> jtoy: was that adb logcat, or adb bugreport?
Apr 08 03:29:46 <jtoy> adb logcat
Apr 08 03:29:53 <morrildl> wow
Apr 08 03:30:08 <morrildl> and you say this happens only on one computer?
Apr 08 03:30:33 <jtoy> yes, but i have ran a wipe data
Apr 08 03:30:54 <jtoy> so i dont know how to fix this at all since  I need to code and test on my own computer
Apr 08 03:33:31 <jtoy> it just started happening all of a sudden yesterday, so i've been writing code, but am not able to test it
Apr 08 03:37:09 <morrildl> so the same code runs on a different computer?
Apr 08 03:37:20 <jtoy> yes
Apr 08 03:37:35 <morrildl> are you loading classes explicitly?
Apr 08 03:37:39 <mickrobk> jasta, a matrix (from linear algebra) is a linear mapping of a function. you can use it in graphics to map one point to another, for the entire coordinate space. Ex. I could use a matrix to move an image left, or to rotate it
Apr 08 03:38:03 <jasta> mickrobk: uhm.
Apr 08 03:38:06 <jasta> seriously? :)
Apr 08 03:38:09 <jtoy> morrildl:  what do you mean? i import classes, and I also do startService(this,ClassName);
Apr 08 03:38:26 <morrildl> jtoy: I mean loading a class by name via Class
Apr 08 03:38:33 <morrildl> reflection basically
Apr 08 03:38:43 <jtoy> no, I am currently not using any reflection
Apr 08 03:39:07 <morrildl> fire up 'adb shell' and then 'cd /data/app'
Apr 08 03:39:12 <zhobbs> jasta: how's the scrolling performance on that album listview?
Apr 08 03:39:13 <morrildl> and do 'ls' and see what's in there
Apr 08 03:39:29 <jasta> zhobbs: not great.
Apr 08 03:39:37 <zhobbs> same here
Apr 08 03:39:45 <jasta> you have a music player also?
Apr 08 03:40:03 <mickrobk> jasta: before u draw on a canvas, try doing canvas.translate(50,50), that changes the matrix of the canvas so that everything u draw on it will be moved down and right 50px
Apr 08 03:40:29 <zhobbs> jasta: yeah..for tunewiki.com
Apr 08 03:40:36 <jasta> mickrobk: that's not at all what i was asking about :)
Apr 08 03:40:43 <jtoy> morrildl:  ApiDemos.apk and mystats.apk
Apr 08 03:41:12 <morrildl> try doing 'rm mystats.apk' and then reinstalling
Apr 08 03:41:33 <jasta> specifically, how would I change colors in the matrix?  what is the structure here?
Apr 08 03:41:45 <morrildl> (not that I think that will help since you already did a -wipe-data)
Apr 08 03:41:55 <jtoy> wtf, that fixed it
Apr 08 03:42:14 <morrildl> er, neat
Apr 08 03:42:15 <jtoy> doesn't -wipe-data clean out the emulator?
Apr 08 03:42:21 <morrildl> It is supposed to :)
Apr 08 03:42:27 <morrildl> which SDK version?
Apr 08 03:42:29 <jtoy> morrildl:  rthanks
Apr 08 03:42:33 <jtoy> m5, the latest one
Apr 08 03:42:36 <morrildl> okay
Apr 08 03:42:42 <morrildl> damn, now I wish I'd had you keep that .apk
Apr 08 03:42:54 <morrildl> that error was basically saying you had a corrupt apk
Apr 08 03:42:58 <jtoy> morrildl: I'm sure its happen again :) thanks though!
Apr 08 03:43:08 <morrildl> but in some insidious way that I've never seen before
Apr 08 03:43:13 <morrildl> ha ha, np
Apr 08 03:43:16 <morrildl> happy hacking
Apr 08 03:44:38 <romainguy> jasta: what the hell is a Matrix.  how flexible is this system for animations? << ?
Apr 08 03:45:08 <michaelnovakjr> i thought animations relied on a Matrix
Apr 08 03:45:16 <romainguy> They do
Apr 08 03:45:21 <romainguy> Actually they rely on a Transformation
Apr 08 03:45:27 <romainguy> which is a Matrix + stuff
Apr 08 03:45:27 <jasta> romainguy: how do I interact with this?  how could i, say, animation with a shader?
Apr 08 03:45:37 <morrildl> romainguy: just one?
Apr 08 03:45:48 <romainguy> morrildl: as a matter of fact, yes :)
Apr 08 03:45:48 <jasta> animate*
Apr 08 03:45:55 <romainguy> just create an AlphaAnimation that will give you a number between 0 and 1
Apr 08 03:46:02 <romainguy> then use that to modify your shader
Apr 08 03:46:09 <romainguy> that's what progress bar does in indeterminate mode
Apr 08 03:46:42 <morrildl> romainguy: how's that work?  obviously you can merge say a rotation and a translation into a single matrix, but if you apply that one matrix over and over again you aren't necessarily going to converge your animation to a useful end state
Apr 08 03:46:43 <jasta> so I don't need to futz with the Matrix at all for that?
Apr 08 03:46:59 <romainguy> jasta: not at all
Apr 08 03:47:05 <jasta> ahh, ok then :)
Apr 08 03:47:07 <romainguy> the Matrix is just for 2d and 3d transformations
Apr 08 03:47:18 <jasta> why an AlphaAnimation though?
Apr 08 03:47:27 <romainguy> morrildl: the matrix is supposed to be clobbered on every frame of every animated child
Apr 08 03:47:39 <romainguy> jasta: becase it simply interpolate a number between X and Y
Apr 08 03:47:41 <morrildl> romainguy: oh
Apr 08 03:47:44 <romainguy> and that's the basis of all animations
Apr 08 03:47:48 <jasta> romainguy: oh, ok.
Apr 08 03:47:56 <morrildl> romainguy: you meant one matrix allocation in memory
Apr 08 03:47:58 <romainguy> you could create your own custom animation
Apr 08 03:48:03 <romainguy> but alphaanimation is there so...
Apr 08 03:48:11 <romainguy> morrildl: yes, just teasing you back :)
Apr 08 03:48:18 <morrildl> romainguy: ahh :)
Apr 08 03:51:16 <muthu> @thattalldude glad to follow you. happy tweeting!
Apr 08 04:01:16 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 08 04:01:23 <muthu> my bad!
Apr 08 04:02:20 <zhobbs> R isn't generating.......
Apr 08 04:02:33 <zhobbs> I deleted it to force it to regen and it's not happening
Apr 08 04:02:44 <jasta> project -> clean
Apr 08 04:03:17 <zhobbs> not working
Apr 08 04:03:31 <jasta> Press F5 on the project.
Apr 08 04:03:52 <jasta> If it still isn't working: check the problems list for a resource error.
Apr 08 04:04:49 <morrildl> yeah I did that the other day
Apr 08 04:04:58 <morrildl> I started harassing Xav about it
Apr 08 04:05:11 <morrildl> turned out I had another stupid error earlier in y project that was canceling the build before it even ran aapt
Apr 08 04:05:13 <morrildl> hehehe
Apr 08 04:05:33 <zhobbs> doh, was an error in the manifest :(
Apr 08 04:24:25 <jasta> neat, my animation works.
Apr 08 04:24:39 <jasta> zhobbs: i think youre gonna like this effect i've just accomplished :)
Apr 08 04:27:16 <zhobbs> jasta: lemme see
Apr 08 04:27:28 <jasta> not in a position to show it just yet.  soon :)
Apr 08 04:27:40 <jasta> i'm finishing up another part of my app so i can record a video of the whole thing :)
Apr 08 04:28:15 <zhobbs> soon is right...we have 1 week + 2 1/2 hours
Apr 08 04:28:20 <jasta> hehe ;)
Apr 08 04:28:44 <jasta> i am seriously going to be working like 6 hours every night until then :)
Apr 08 04:28:49 <jasta> and i didnt even procrastinate!
Apr 08 04:29:25 <zhobbs> there was a thread on the mailing list about how many hours everyone put into their projects, was pretty surprised
Apr 08 04:29:33 <zhobbs> lots of people claiming 300-500
Apr 08 04:29:37 <jasta> link?
Apr 08 04:29:40 <morrildl> Sometimes trolls are too easy to predict
Apr 08 04:29:51 <jasta> i would suppose i put in about 2 hours avg per day for 3 months.
Apr 08 04:30:11 <zhobbs> http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/53ec4021cf97cd1c
Apr 08 04:30:49 <morrildl> yeah that's a lot of hours
Apr 08 04:30:58 <jasta> so i guess my number would be about 180.
Apr 08 04:30:59 <zhobbs> I couldn't even estimate...2 ADC projects + helloandroid.com
Apr 08 04:31:09 <zhobbs> but this was my full time job
Apr 08 04:31:15 <morrildl> I wonder at which point the man-hours spent by people developing apps *for* android surpasses the man-hours spent developing Android itself
Apr 08 04:31:16 <jasta> really?  not me.
Apr 08 04:31:33 <jasta> morrildl: With any luck, soon.
Apr 08 04:31:37 <morrildl> jasta: indeed :)
Apr 08 04:31:42 <morrildl> one of those unknowable statistics tho
Apr 08 04:31:47 <zhobbs> probably already happened
Apr 08 04:32:03 <jasta> zhobbs: check this out
Apr 08 04:32:18 <morrildl> zhobbs: hmmm.... it's possible that it has.  Hard to tell though
Apr 08 04:32:35 <jasta> $ perl -lwe 'my $c = 0; while (<>) { s/\S//g; $c += length; }; print $c;' $(find libsyncml-java/ five-music/ five-client/ five-server/ -name "*.[ch]" -or -name "*.java" -or -name "*.xml" | grep -v Base64.java)
Apr 08 04:32:39 <jasta> 73421
Apr 08 04:33:06 <jasta> number of non-space characters in my source :)
Apr 08 04:33:24 <zhobbs> what's the Base64.java thrown in there?
Apr 08 04:33:31 <jasta> zhobbs: I didn't write Base64.java ;)
Apr 08 04:33:35 <morrildl> hahahahahaha
Apr 08 04:33:42 <zhobbs> hahaa....that's great
Apr 08 04:33:47 <zhobbs> you could have taken credit :)
Apr 08 04:33:51 <morrildl> oh goodness
Apr 08 04:33:52 <jasta> that would be unfair :)
Apr 08 04:34:22 <jasta> that, btw, was run after mvn clean, so there should be no autogenerated crud :)
Apr 08 04:34:40 <jasta> 15927 lines, but I [heart] whitespace.
Apr 08 04:35:03 <zhobbs> you exclude R.java? and aidl generate java files? :)
Apr 08 04:35:05 <jasta> my project is absolutely huge, anyway.  i suspect by the time it releases to handsets it will be 3 times this since.
Apr 08 04:35:13 <jasta> zhobbs: my clean targets delete them, so yes.
Apr 08 04:35:19 <zhobbs> ahh
Apr 08 04:35:37 <morrildl> hmm
Apr 08 04:35:46 <jasta> this size*, i meant.
Apr 08 04:35:52 * morrildl had been expecting a "Google App Engine + Android == Crazy Delicious" post by now
Apr 08 04:36:27 <jasta> i am going to start a new campaign to murder anyone using pseudomathematic gibberish.
Apr 08 04:36:33 * jasta glares at morrildl 
Apr 08 04:37:01 <morrildl> wow, I thought you just had it in for using pseudocode to mark up real life
Apr 08 04:37:17 <jasta> no, in fact, that is less annoying by contrast :)
Apr 08 04:37:20 <morrildl> <avoid scope="code">jasta</avoid>
Apr 08 04:37:57 <jasta> the this + that = whatever bugs me because the verb "to be" is fundamentally incompatible with "equals", and in fact differs from langauge to language.
Apr 08 04:38:05 <f00f-> sounds good jasta :P
Apr 08 04:38:14 <f00f-> i just discovered Google App Engine myself
Apr 08 04:38:18 <f00f-> jaiku is moving to it first
Apr 08 04:39:13 <morrildl> cool, I didn't know that
Apr 08 04:39:58 <morrildl> As a former GE-er, I do have to say that the GAE logo looks like a GE-90
Apr 08 04:40:20 <f00f-> you're not talking about GE Aerospace engines are you?
Apr 08 04:40:50 <morrildl> heh
Apr 08 04:40:56 <f00f-> GE-90 is a commodity engine for widebody aircraft
Apr 08 04:40:56 <morrildl> No, that's Lockheed Martin now
Apr 08 04:41:04 <morrildl> right
Apr 08 04:41:21 <morrildl> the logo for Google App Engine looks like a GE-90 in nacelle with fins welded on
Apr 08 04:41:39 <f00f-> HAHAHA
Apr 08 04:41:44 <f00f-> yes
Apr 08 04:42:18 <f00f-> i totally love the logo!
Apr 08 04:42:45 <jasta> that's a very exciting project, actually
Apr 08 04:47:39 <morrildl> jasta: what, the GE-90?
Apr 08 04:47:48 <jasta> uhh, no
Apr 08 04:47:52 <jasta> Google App Engine
Apr 08 04:47:57 <romainguy> re
Apr 08 04:48:05 <morrildl> oh, right :)
Apr 08 04:52:57 <muthu> woah Google App Engine
Apr 08 04:53:10 <muthu> totally missed it.. my day starts late anyways
Apr 08 04:54:08 <muthu> was looking at amazon for hosting my mobile search engine
Apr 08 04:54:16 <muthu> now may be google app engine.. lets see
Apr 08 04:58:00 <muthu> python, what??
Apr 08 04:58:08 <morrildl> muthu: It only launched less than an hour ago, so you aren't late :)
Apr 08 04:58:23 <romainguy> hmmm python :)
Apr 08 04:58:38 <muthu> morrildl: yeah techcrunch was breaking news yesterday
Apr 08 04:58:54 <morrildl> mmmmmmmmmm, pyyyyyyyyython
Apr 08 04:59:02 <muthu> haha
Apr 08 04:59:09 <muthu> when you support java?
Apr 08 04:59:23 <zhobbs> doh! python...
Apr 08 04:59:26 <romainguy> people complain that Android is in Java
Apr 08 04:59:35 <romainguy> and now people will complain that GAE is in Python
Apr 08 04:59:39 <morrildl> Sorry sorry -- for Jasta's benefit:  <inflection origin="Home Simpson">mmmmmmmmmmmmm pyyyyyyyyython</inflection>
Apr 08 04:59:39 <zhobbs> you can't please everyone
Apr 08 04:59:43 <muthu> ok, when PHP?
Apr 08 04:59:44 <romainguy> people should start just learning stuff :))
Apr 08 04:59:59 <morrildl> yes, sometimes I think that is our greatest contribution: we force developers to learn new stuff to use our crap ;)
Apr 08 05:00:11 <muthu> lol
Apr 08 05:00:17 <muthu> i was all for learning new languages
Apr 08 05:00:30 <muthu> but lately i'm wise enough to stick with what i know already
Apr 08 05:01:39 <morrildl> whenever I start to get cranky about kids these days and their fancypants new toys, I know it's time to learn a new language
Apr 08 05:01:54 <morrildl> next up is Scala once I have some time :P
Apr 08 05:02:01 <romainguy> morrildl: Guido must be happy about GAE :)
Apr 08 05:02:06 <morrildl> I know
Apr 08 05:02:18 <jtoy> scala on android would be awesome
Apr 08 05:02:24 <muthu> i'm going to wait until you support PHP
Apr 08 05:02:27 <romainguy> jtoy: it works already
Apr 08 05:02:43 <muthu> and Java on GAE
Apr 08 05:02:46 <morrildl> jtoy: yeah, we've been working with....... ugh, I can never remember his name
Apr 08 05:02:46 <jtoy> right, but i wouldnt want to build my app for the contest in it quite yet
Apr 08 05:03:07 <romainguy> morrildl: Martin Odersky?
Apr 08 05:03:13 <morrildl> romainguy: yes
Apr 08 05:03:25 <morrildl> I should just call him Mr. O, that's all I can ever remember
Apr 08 05:03:37 <jtoy> cool, i wonder if anyone will actually submit an app built wth scala, the binaries are huge
Apr 08 05:03:40 <romainguy> morrildl: I jut remember the name from Dick's podcast :)
Apr 08 05:03:53 <morrildl> jtoy: we would have no way of knowing :)
Apr 08 05:14:49 <morrildl> well, bedtime
Apr 08 05:14:50 <morrildl> night all
Apr 08 05:19:10 <muthu> good night morrildl
Apr 08 05:25:45 <donomo> appengine.google.com is creating quite a stir
Apr 08 05:42:55 <muthu> donomo: how so?
Apr 08 05:44:07 <donomo> muthu: because its packed with awesomeness
Apr 08 05:44:42 <muthu> donomo: :)
Apr 08 05:44:56 <muthu> nice name
Apr 08 05:45:45 <f00f-> nothing special imho
Apr 08 05:45:45 <f00f-> just a python-based hosting platform
Apr 08 05:45:45 <f00f-> every high school kid runs one of these out of his basement
Apr 08 05:45:45 <f00f-> well
Apr 08 05:45:45 <f00f-> with clustering and all that
Apr 08 05:45:46 <f00f-> that's it
Apr 08 05:46:03 <donomo> a document-style (not relation) data store
Apr 08 05:46:10 <donomo> s/relation/relational/
Apr 08 05:46:10 <infobot> donomo meant: a document-style (not relational) data store
Apr 08 05:49:05 <f00f-> nothing revolutionary about that
Apr 08 05:49:05 <f00f-> it's more like being able to use google's distributed acrhitecture
Apr 08 05:49:05 <f00f-> which i fancy not a lot of people do
Apr 08 05:49:05 <f00f-> at least fly by the night .com operations
Apr 08 05:49:05 <f00f-> not even small businesses
Apr 08 05:49:24 <f00f-> but realistically, who has compute farms lying around? :)
Apr 08 05:49:29 <f00f-> google, and a few others
Apr 08 05:49:51 <romainguy> and the architecture has proven to be quite scalable :)
Apr 08 05:51:06 <f00f-> yeah i love the KISS commodity (free) stuff concept
Apr 08 05:51:06 <f00f-> "throw hardware/resources at the problem to make it go away"
Apr 08 05:57:45 <muthu> Predict your winners here: http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/t/9687dfffb684f06d
Apr 08 05:57:57 <muthu> have some fun, will ya ;)
Apr 08 05:58:18 <jasta> lol
Apr 08 05:58:33 <muthu> jasta: you've been named!
Apr 08 05:59:22 <jasta> i like your prediction :)
Apr 08 05:59:39 <muthu> i know, you'll love it ;)
Apr 08 05:59:39 <f00f-> 45 to go muthu :)
Apr 08 05:59:49 <muthu> hope others will fill in
Apr 08 06:00:05 <muthu> f00f: go ahead and list yours
Apr 08 06:00:10 <muthu> will be interesting to watch
Apr 08 06:01:25 <f00f-> you make it sound as if jasta will win, regardless of the app he submits :P
Apr 08 06:01:25 <f00f-> you're only working on the media player right? :)
Apr 08 06:01:39 <muthu> yeah its a biased list
Apr 08 06:02:04 <f00f-> tbh, i only focus on mine, i haven't kept up much with others
Apr 08 06:02:28 <muthu> i had too much of free time, lol
Apr 08 06:03:09 <f00f-> you know what's funny
Apr 08 06:03:09 <f00f-> only a few of us in here talk
Apr 08 06:03:09 <f00f-> lots of lurkers
Apr 08 06:03:09 <f00f-> i wouldn't be surprised if more lurkers win than us active users
Apr 08 06:03:29 <muthu> lurkers are actually coding instead of talking
Apr 08 06:03:44 <muthu> so yup, will not be surprising if they win
Apr 08 06:04:15 <muthu> i can confirm that i had spend more than 50% of time, chatting, tweeting etc., than coding
Apr 08 06:05:56 <f00f-> hahaha
Apr 08 06:06:12 <f00f-> i have relatively few commits in SVN but lots of code changes
Apr 08 06:06:47 <muthu> you don't commit atleast once a day?
Apr 08 06:07:21 <f00f-> Total Line Count: 5087
Apr 08 06:07:21 <f00f-> Total Files Processed: 24
Apr 08 06:07:50 <muthu> size should not matter, i guess
Apr 08 06:08:03 <muthu> i'll be very interested in the winners
Apr 08 06:08:13 <muthu> see who wins, and how google is judging
Apr 08 06:09:00 <michaelnovakjr> i think commits are important
Apr 08 06:09:07 <michaelnovakjr> it makes reverting changes easier
Apr 08 06:09:25 <f00f-> no, i commit every few days
Apr 08 06:09:25 <f00f-> i try to do every day
Apr 08 06:09:25 <f00f-> but sometimes i have not finished
Apr 08 06:09:25 <f00f-> and i have a tester
Apr 08 06:09:25 <f00f-> so i dont want to give incomplete code
Apr 08 06:09:47 <muthu> michael: agree commits are important
Apr 08 06:10:01 <michaelnovakjr> i commit when i have something working
Apr 08 06:10:03 <muthu> f00f: you have a tester? wow!
Apr 08 06:10:17 <f00f-> i can say i have 50 revisions in SVN
Apr 08 06:10:34 <michaelnovakjr> how long have you been working on it?
Apr 08 06:11:25 <f00f-> 50 diff version of the app :D
Apr 08 06:11:37 <f00f-> no not me
Apr 08 06:11:38 <f00f-> i code
Apr 08 06:12:01 <f00f-> but i make it easy for others to test live SVN code
Apr 08 06:12:01 <muthu> i know you are not a tester, but you have a tester for your app?
Apr 08 06:12:20 <f00f-> yeah, nothing official
Apr 08 06:12:28 <muthu> f00f: is it open?
Apr 08 06:13:09 <f00f-> just people that are part of the team, reviewing the app, and doing content
Apr 08 06:13:09 <f00f-> reading this android-challenge forum is so exciting
Apr 08 06:13:09 <f00f-> to find out what people are worried/concerned about
Apr 08 06:13:21 <f00f-> muthu: closed-source unfortunately
Apr 08 06:13:37 <muthu> ok
Apr 08 06:13:44 <f00f-> you could say it's half of google maps with a twist
Apr 08 06:13:58 <muthu> what's the twist?
Apr 08 06:14:19 <muthu> everyone doing LBS.. that i know
Apr 08 06:15:42 <f00f-> let's just say...
Apr 08 06:15:42 <f00f-> we are using GTFS :)
Apr 08 06:15:50 <muthu> GTFS?
Apr 08 06:16:04 <muthu> give me a rough idea
Apr 08 06:16:21 <f00f-> http://code.google.com/transit/spec/transit_feed_specification.html
Apr 08 06:16:41 <muthu> ok.. got it
Apr 08 06:17:04 <muthu> looks like i need to list your name :))
Apr 08 06:17:26 <f00f-> there i've said too much already
Apr 08 06:17:41 <muthu> lol, don't worry
Apr 08 06:17:51 <muthu> you've said nothing
Apr 08 06:18:15 <f00f-> my app is more of a showcase of what we can do
Apr 08 06:18:21 <muthu> oops, made 800dip instead of 80.. and my button is sooooo wide!
Apr 08 06:18:40 <muthu> i'm getting an idea
Apr 08 06:18:47 <muthu> so you are taking the feeds, and mapping it
Apr 08 06:19:43 <f00f-> as in, one example of LBS
Apr 08 06:19:43 <f00f-> not just a google maps/navigator clone
Apr 08 06:19:43 <f00f-> since i figured
Apr 08 06:19:43 <f00f-> there is already a Maps application bundled with Android
Apr 08 06:19:44 <f00f-> that does directions, etc.
Apr 08 06:19:46 <f00f-> no need to duplicate
Apr 08 06:19:48 <f00f-> i've also got some GTalk functionality, but i wonder if the judges will even have GTalk accounts to test with
Apr 08 06:19:50 <f00f-> plus it makes everything sluggish
Apr 08 06:19:52 <f00f-> eg. sharing your location with your contacts
Apr 08 06:19:54 <f00f-> hehe
Apr 08 06:20:10 <f00f-> muthu: i'd love to elaborate once we are closer to next week :)
Apr 08 06:20:17 <muthu> the judges will not create GTalk accounts
Apr 08 06:20:31 <muthu> f00f: yeah i would love to hear
Apr 08 06:21:07 <muthu> or may be they will.. i remember dan explaining the judges can create gtalk accounts if they need to
Apr 08 06:21:39 <f00f-> i know, i'm secretive :X
Apr 08 06:22:08 <f00f-> well regardless, it's a small part of my app.. just sharing your location and seeing others' locations on the map
Apr 08 06:22:24 <muthu> its like elimatta
Apr 08 06:22:28 <muthu> location based blogging
Apr 08 06:22:51 <muthu> f00f: yes, LBS is a good place to be
Apr 08 06:23:06 <f00f-> nothing special really
Apr 08 06:23:26 <f00f-> muthu: yeah, but a LOT of players in this arena right now
Apr 08 06:23:32 <muthu> yes
Apr 08 06:23:55 <muthu> elimatta, rummble, myloki, friendfinder, routefinder, taxifinder... ;)
Apr 08 06:24:17 <muthu> cellfinder, dogfinder.. wifefinder.. lol
Apr 08 06:24:24 <f00f-> among the public ones :)
Apr 08 06:24:43 <muthu> there's a huge demand
Apr 08 06:25:01 <muthu> who ever fills in first, will be the lucky one
Apr 08 06:25:55 <f00f-> well i think there can be different types of LBS apps
Apr 08 06:25:58 <f00f-> some generic, some specialized
Apr 08 06:26:33 <muthu> yes, most of them would be specialized
Apr 08 06:26:48 <muthu> based on location, you want to do specific things
Apr 08 06:27:35 <f00f-> right
Apr 08 06:28:33 <muthu> morning davidw
Apr 08 06:29:44 <f00f-> ok time to start coding again
Apr 08 06:30:23 <davidw> 'morning
Apr 08 06:31:17 <f00f-> top of the mornin' to ya
Apr 08 06:31:59 <muthu> david how's your app humming?
Apr 08 07:22:36 <davidw> muthu, ok
Apr 08 07:22:47 <davidw> Hecl works well enough that I'm actually doing a second app, for a client, with it
Apr 08 07:23:52 <muthu> wow, cool.
Apr 08 07:24:17 <muthu> what's your thought on python for GAE?
Apr 08 07:28:14 <jtoy> sucks that its only python
Apr 08 07:34:05 <SR71-Blackbird> i was wondering how you would save an image to database...
Apr 08 07:35:03 <SR71-Blackbird> I am trying to make a simple photo taking application, that takes pictures, shows in a gallery right in the bottom.. kinda confused
Apr 08 07:38:52 <muthu> jtoy: python only is a big constraint.. hope they become language neutral real soon.
Apr 08 07:39:23 <muthu> blackbird: look in the content provider docs
Apr 08 07:39:47 <jtoy> it almost gives me an excuse to program in python again
Apr 08 07:40:11 <f00f-> heh
Apr 08 07:41:37 <f00f-> i am assuming the worst case scenario during juding
Apr 08 07:41:37 <f00f-> -- that my server is down
Apr 08 07:41:37 <f00f-> so going to great pains to pre-load data
Apr 08 07:43:58 <muthu> f00f: preloading the data is the smart choice
Apr 08 07:44:47 <f00f-> you think i should do it as a failover, or just use it as default?
Apr 08 07:45:18 <SR71-Blackbird> muthu, i tried saving to the default MediaStore.Images.Media file, the problem is that it tries by default to save at /data/images/ which doesn't exist
Apr 08 07:45:38 <muthu> blackbird: haven't tried saving images myself
Apr 08 07:46:32 <SR71-Blackbird> muthu, I hadn't done it in a while, forgot that I had made the folder in my old installation, wasted considerable time
Apr 08 08:06:27 <jtoy> where are the docs that go over building a gui programatically?
Apr 08 08:06:48 <jtoy> i cant find the official docs that talk about this, I only need this for one part of the app
Apr 08 08:11:21 <davidw> python's a nice language
Apr 08 08:11:28 <davidw> but I use ruby these days
Apr 08 08:38:44 <Hai-Fai> is it possible to "reverse" progressbars, like they went from right to left?
Apr 08 09:07:11 <raidfive> can we use third party packages that use java.io in android?
Apr 08 09:13:47 <jasta> yes
Apr 08 09:14:16 <jasta> Hai-Fai: yes, but due to ProgressBar having certain things being hardcoded it would take a bit of work.
Apr 08 09:16:00 <raidfive> so android supports the full java jdk/jre?
Apr 08 09:16:33 <jasta> no, but a very large portion of it.
Apr 08 09:16:53 <jasta> Android uses Harmony, and its limitations are closedly related to it.
Apr 08 09:18:31 <raidfive> is there a list of supported packages? or do we just have to try it? :P
Apr 08 09:18:38 <jasta> yes, there is.
Apr 08 09:19:03 <jasta> see Android's documentation; if you find documentation for the class you're looking for, Android supports it.
Apr 08 09:24:29 <raidfive> okay I wasn't sure if all supported packages were listed
Apr 08 09:25:05 <Hai-Fai> jasta: is color also hardcoded into progressbar? would be nice feature to change it..
Apr 08 09:25:32 <jasta> Hai-Fai: no.  the progress bar is made up of a stretching, tileable bitmaps.
Apr 08 09:25:37 <jasta> the horizontal one anyway.
Apr 08 09:25:48 <jasta> you could change it easily
Apr 08 09:27:19 <Hai-Fai> oh okay, just haven't found it, but thanks
Apr 08 09:28:21 <jasta> do you know where you're looking?
Apr 08 09:28:36 <jasta> it won't be readily apparent in the docs ;)
Apr 08 09:29:58 <Hai-Fai> well I've tried through methods, but haven't seen any "setColor" or whatever
Apr 08 09:30:57 <jasta> you won't, either.
Apr 08 09:31:03 <jasta> since as i said, they are bitmaps.
Apr 08 09:31:25 <jtoy> can you override CursorAdaptor's  getView like you can di with ArrayAdaptor? the docs dont say so
Apr 08 09:31:36 <jasta> Hai-Fai: http://devtcg.blogspot.com/2008/03/tool-to-read-android-binary-xml-files.html -- download the tarball
Apr 08 09:31:49 <jasta> look in framework-res/res/drawable/progress*
Apr 08 09:32:14 <jasta> jtoy: Yes, though you should probably use SimpleCursorAdapter and a ViewBinder.
Apr 08 09:32:17 <davidw> damn am I tired
Apr 08 09:33:25 <jtoy> ok, I have not use ViewBinder before
Apr 08 09:34:23 <jasta> then that is almost certainly what you are looking for
Apr 08 09:35:49 <jtoy> do you guys know of any example code for ViewBinder, I cant find any
Apr 08 09:35:52 <Hai-Fai> hm okay, have to spend some time on that
Apr 08 09:35:56 <Hai-Fai> thank jasta
Apr 08 09:36:14 <Hai-Fai> thanks..
Apr 08 09:36:45 <jasta> jtoy: It's very simple.  Just read the API changes from M3 to M5 for a brief description
Apr 08 09:42:06 <jtoy> blah,  I guess im retarted, I'm still not sure how to use it
Apr 08 09:42:34 <jasta> hehe
Apr 08 09:44:27 <Hai-Fai> hm about those bitmaps, I'm not sure, but it's possible to use android's xy thing to change color or whatever? maybe with paint?
Apr 08 09:44:57 <jasta> your heads in the wrong area; the only way you're gonna get it to work is with a bitmap.
Apr 08 09:45:21 <jasta> I'm telling you: the progressbar is hardcoded to use a layer list drawable.  anything else will require you re-invent everything :)
Apr 08 09:45:29 <Hai-Fai> k
Apr 08 09:45:43 <jasta> the layout files i pointed you to will help you replace those bitmaps
Apr 08 09:45:49 <Hai-Fai> so I have to draw with "paint program xy [photoshop]" a new bitmap?
Apr 08 09:46:02 <Hai-Fai> I think I'm a retard also :D
Apr 08 09:46:05 <jasta> if you want
Apr 08 09:46:20 <Hai-Fai> so there's another way?
Apr 08 09:46:28 <jasta> i'm sorry, i'm tired.
Apr 08 09:46:33 <Hai-Fai> no problem
Apr 08 09:46:43 <jasta> just trust me; you don't want to mess with this unless you really know what you're doing.
Apr 08 09:46:52 <Hai-Fai> okay
Apr 08 09:47:17 <jasta> i have discovered all this by reverse engineering the layout XML files and studying them, and also decompiling ProgressBar.class itself.
Apr 08 09:47:30 <jasta> unless you want to go through that much trouble, i suggest you just drop it :)
Apr 08 09:48:01 <jasta> that said, i do understand how it works now, and would be capable of replacing its visuals.
Apr 08 09:48:37 <Hai-Fai> okay
Apr 08 09:48:39 <Hai-Fai> shame
Apr 08 09:48:59 <muthu> hai-fai: if you need to replace the bar image, create a drawable
Apr 08 09:49:15 <muthu> and then follow the progress bar example that jasta had shown you
Apr 08 09:49:23 <jasta> no, not just a drawable; use a layer list background with bitmaps only.  if you don't, you will be surprised.
Apr 08 09:49:31 <Hai-Fai> =)
Apr 08 09:49:53 <muthu> ok, yes use a layer list background with bitmaps only!! :)
Apr 08 09:49:56 <Hai-Fai> well have to focus on that later, thanks to pointing me to right direction
Apr 08 09:50:12 <jasta> trust me; it is hardcoded to work well only with a layer list background with bitmaps.
Apr 08 09:50:13 <Hai-Fai> g2g now, bye
Apr 08 09:50:29 <jasta> anything else will require you entirely re-implement the way it draws.
Apr 08 09:50:59 <muthu> you can override the draw() if you want
Apr 08 09:51:26 <jasta> yeah, but that is kind of what i meant by reimplemting it yourself :)
Apr 08 09:51:34 <muthu> yup
Apr 08 09:51:39 <jasta> you could use a level list drawable as well, but it would be painful.
Apr 08 09:52:12 <muthu> yeah i'm just going with the defaults wherever possible
Apr 08 09:52:23 <muthu> no point in tinkering with a changing sdk
Apr 08 09:53:11 <jasta> you know, the more i learn about androids UI toolkit, the more i am amazed.  it's more sophisticated than most toolkits i've encountered even for the desktop.
Apr 08 09:53:34 <jasta> i started looking at designing my own progress bar visuals until i realized i could do something even cooler with less work
Apr 08 09:53:49 <muthu> cool!
Apr 08 09:54:10 <muthu> i like the way you customize with xml
Apr 08 09:54:19 <muthu> if only its open and documented..
Apr 08 09:54:21 <jasta> i basically made a ProgressTextView, that paints the text in a TextView like it was transparent through to a progress bar
Apr 08 09:54:36 <jasta> muthu: well, i did my part to make it more open :P
Apr 08 09:54:47 <muthu> jasta that helped :)
Apr 08 09:55:05 <jtoy> huh, jasta could you show me a small sample?
Apr 08 09:55:29 <jasta> jtoy: of what?
Apr 08 09:55:44 <jtoy> of ViewBinder

Apr 08 09:56:43 <jasta> sure
Apr 08 09:56:51 <jasta> i'll spoon feed you :)
Apr 08 09:57:36 <jasta> SimpleCursorAdapter adapter = new SimpleCursorAdapter(..., new String[] { "title" }, new int[] { R.id.title });
Apr 08 09:57:47 <jasta> adpater.setViewBinder(new SimpleCursorAdapter.ViewBinder() {
Apr 08 09:57:58 <jasta>   public boolean setViewValue(View v, Cusror c, int col) {
Apr 08 09:58:31 <jasta>     TextView tv = (TextView)v;
Apr 08 09:58:43 <jasta>     String title = c.getString(col);
Apr 08 09:59:03 <jasta>     if (title.equals("") == true) { tv.setText("(No Title)"); }
Apr 08 09:59:09 <jasta>     else { tv.setText(title); }
Apr 08 09:59:21 <jasta>     return true; // indicate that you set the text
Apr 08 09:59:22 <jasta>   }
Apr 08 09:59:22 <jasta> }
Apr 08 09:59:24 <jasta> );
Apr 08 09:59:49 <muthu> May 6.. woah
Apr 08 10:00:04 <jasta> taht is a practical example demonstrating both why and how to use a viewbinder
Apr 08 10:00:10 <jasta> muthu: i'm skeptical...
Apr 08 10:00:19 <muthu> it will happen
Apr 08 10:00:28 <muthu> Google is pushing hard
Apr 08 10:00:33 <muthu> they have a lot to prove
Apr 08 10:00:55 <jasta> right, but this is just a rumor
Apr 08 10:01:23 <jasta> although, do note that the date May 6th is significant because it is 1 day after the ADC specifies qualifying prize winners.
Apr 08 10:01:33 <muthu> yeah!
Apr 08 10:01:41 <muthu> its happening.. i'm so excited
Apr 08 10:02:16 <muthu> i would love to see a device before june
Apr 08 10:02:36 <jasta> i really don't think you're gonna see a commercially available device so soon.  that would not make any sense.
Apr 08 10:02:51 <jasta> the rumor is just about the unveiling of details about the device that will eventually hit
Apr 08 10:02:56 <muthu> not commerical, but a developers device at the least
Apr 08 10:03:05 <jasta> perhaps we will see that, y es.
Apr 08 10:03:14 <muthu> phase 2 requires a device
Apr 08 10:03:25 <jasta> i actually suspect that Google is or has considered offering all of the winners a prototype handset
Apr 08 10:03:38 <jasta> that just makes sense, really
Apr 08 10:03:41 <muthu> yeah, why not
Apr 08 10:03:44 <muthu> they will for sure
Apr 08 10:03:52 <jasta> don't get your hopes up :)
Apr 08 10:04:16 <muthu> you are the insider, so i'll blindly believe you :-D
Apr 08 10:04:27 <jasta> i am?
Apr 08 10:04:32 <muthu> (jasta, secretly works for google)
Apr 08 10:04:37 <muthu> lol
Apr 08 10:04:58 <jasta> if i worked for Google, i wouldn't be pouring all my time into a contest i was ineligible to win :)
Apr 08 10:05:15 <muthu> that's the trick you are playing
Apr 08 10:05:20 <muthu> so we can't find out
Apr 08 10:05:22 <muthu> hehe
Apr 08 10:10:34 <jasta> yay, got my streaming hack working.
Apr 08 10:12:56 <mike1o> undercover google agent
Apr 08 10:14:01 <jasta> hehe, i wanted to make sure the judges knew why my app stutters twice every time you play a song:
Apr 08 10:14:05 <jasta> D/PlaylistService(  843): Engaging streaming hack (THIS IS NECESSARY DUE TO ANDROID BUGS!)
Apr 08 10:15:05 <jtoy> jasta: one question about your code, why do you create a second SimpleCuroAdapter  shouldnt you bind to the one you already created?
Apr 08 10:15:17 <jasta> jtoy: what?
Apr 08 10:15:27 <jasta> when did i create a second cursor adapter?
Apr 08 10:16:03 <jtoy> SimpleCursorAdapter adapter = new SimpleCursorAdapter(..., new String[] { "title" }, new int[] { R.id.title });
Apr 08 10:16:12 <jtoy> adpater.setViewBinder(new SimpleCursorAdapter.ViewBinder() {
Apr 08 10:16:18 <jtoy> oh I see, duh, sorry
Apr 08 10:16:24 <jtoy> sorry,i've been coding all day
Apr 08 10:16:24 <jasta> yes, i see that i'm creating 1.
Apr 08 10:17:04 <jtoy> yes, I see, thank you for spoon feeding :)
Apr 08 10:17:30 <jasta> you only get one :)
Apr 08 10:18:04 <jtoy> hehe
Apr 08 10:20:02 <jasta> i'm practically going to have to throw this entire PlaylistService out once they fix all these MediaPlayer issues
Apr 08 10:20:10 <jasta> it's 600 lines and i bet 300 of that is wokring around bugs
Apr 08 10:24:54 <muthu> painful indeed
Apr 08 10:27:30 <davidw> jasta, I would hope that handsets would go to more than winners as a sort of consolation prize, at some point in the future
Apr 08 10:27:49 <davidw> I doubt that anyone will get one before actual phones ship though
Apr 08 10:28:02 <jasta> davidw: honestly, i doubt that as well
Apr 08 10:28:10 <jasta> just wouldn't be good for publicity
Apr 08 11:01:25 <davidw> dammit
Apr 08 11:01:33 <davidw> can't set progress bar style programmatically
Apr 08 12:00:04 <jtoy> anyone here ever use iterm and screen?
Apr 08 13:12:29 <acsia> is it possible to have a type of onClick on a linear layout? would you use onTouchEvent?
Apr 08 13:15:41 <acsia> I guess setOnClickListener... my bad
Apr 08 13:49:28 <invain> asdf
Apr 08 13:49:29 <invain> hi
Apr 08 13:49:50 <invain> i know new fact about andoird architecutre..
Apr 08 13:51:09 <benley> it's made of cheese?
Apr 08 13:54:04 <davidw> benley, bamboo, actually
Apr 08 13:54:08 <muthu> invain what's it?
Apr 08 13:58:06 <acsia> I have a colleague whom went on site at a customer for load testing purposes and had to sign an assumption that their software did not have any bugs...
Apr 08 14:07:30 <B0jangles> why would they do that?
Apr 08 14:07:59 <michaelnovakjr> i'd cut my finger off before doing that
Apr 08 14:08:53 <davidw> wow
Apr 08 14:09:01 <B0jangles> that's hardcore
Apr 08 14:39:12 <_8> http://www.meine-nackte-ex.net/?uid=76217
Apr 08 14:39:30 <benley> wow, it's an old-fashioned irc spamming
Apr 08 14:39:35 <muthu> ha come on..
Apr 08 14:41:10 <muthu> guess 8 had a point to prove
Apr 08 14:53:29 <acsia> that he is german?
Apr 08 14:54:20 <muthu> hehe
Apr 08 17:00:52 <jasta> morning ;)
Apr 08 17:20:26 <muthu> # testing..
Apr 08 17:26:55 <bilboed_> Hi all. Anyone knows which libc is used on android ? it's missing quite a few symbols compared to glibc, like stdin/stderr/stdout/signal/...
Apr 08 17:30:12 <davidw> bilboed, their own hacked thing
Apr 08 17:31:02 <bilboed> ok, my question should have been "which libc the one in android is based on"
Apr 08 17:32:40 <davidw> maybe a *bsd one/
Apr 08 17:33:02 <davidw> yeah, I think so
Apr 08 17:33:27 <bilboed> looks so indeed
Apr 08 17:43:15 <michaelnovakjr> any google dudes know?
Apr 08 17:44:29 <bilboed> definitely *bsd
Apr 08 17:44:43 <bilboed> stderr is defined as such in the includes : #define stderr        (&__sF[2])
Apr 08 17:44:58 <michaelnovakjr> do you know exactly which one?
Apr 08 17:44:59 <bilboed> and the shipped libc.so has the __sF symbol
Apr 08 17:45:05 <bilboed> no, that's the tricky part :)
Apr 08 17:45:11 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Apr 08 17:45:20 <michaelnovakjr> i'd be curious to know
Apr 08 17:45:23 <bilboed> but there's many other symbols one can look for
Apr 08 17:48:25 <bilboed> it's openbsd
Apr 08 17:48:44 <bilboed> in freebsd stderr is defined as such : #define	stderr	__stderrp
Apr 08 17:50:49 <bilboed> hmm...could be netbsd though
Apr 08 17:51:25 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 17:52:05 <bilboed> yeah, could be netbsd
Apr 08 17:52:07 <michaelnovakjr> morrildl do you know that answer?
Apr 08 17:52:31 <bilboed> could also be ulibc :)
Apr 08 17:52:34 <bilboed> argh
Apr 08 17:52:37 <morrildl> yes it's BSD
Apr 08 17:52:40 <morrildl> it's not ulibc
Apr 08 17:52:58 <michaelnovakjr> openbsd?
Apr 08 17:53:29 <morrildl> I'm told it's a bit of a hybrid of OpenBSD and FreeBSD
Apr 08 17:53:34 <morrildl> ...and then extensively modified
Apr 08 17:53:41 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Apr 08 17:54:10 <morrildl> although not even the maintainers can actually remember where it originally came from :)
Apr 08 17:54:11 <michaelnovakjr> will that be released with android as source?
Apr 08 17:54:25 <morrildl> I think they were looking around to see what there was and picked up bits and pieces
Apr 08 17:54:32 <morrildl> yup
Apr 08 17:54:46 <morrildl> probably under New BSD rather than Apache 2.0 though, b/c it seems lame to re-license it
Apr 08 17:54:46 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Apr 08 17:54:54 <morrildl> but that final decision hasn't been made yet
Apr 08 17:55:15 <zhobbs> morrildl: any idea if any of the source for the official framework will remain closed? (I understand OEMs can modify and keep closed)
Apr 08 17:55:22 <michaelnovakjr> i am dying to know what install policies will be
Apr 08 17:55:34 <michaelnovakjr> if you can get it direct from google to work on your phone
Apr 08 17:55:42 <morrildl> oh goodness
Apr 08 17:55:53 <morrildl> nobody believes me :)
Apr 08 17:56:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 17:56:08 <michaelnovakjr> i would hate to have to get a new phone
Apr 08 17:56:10 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Apr 08 17:56:10 <morrildl> zhobbs: no source above the kernel layer will be kept closed
Apr 08 17:56:21 <zhobbs> morrildl: great
Apr 08 17:56:24 <morrildl> at the kernel layer, there are a couple corner cases where we can't open source stuff
Apr 08 17:56:33 <morrildl> like the firmware for teh radio baseband, that kind of thing
Apr 08 17:56:33 <zhobbs> drivers?
Apr 08 17:56:40 <zhobbs> gotcha
Apr 08 17:56:40 <morrildl> drivers I think we hope to have open source
Apr 08 17:56:47 <morrildl> but in some cases along the 802.11 lines
Apr 08 17:56:59 <morrildl> e.g. how Intel has open source drivers, but the firmware is closed
Apr 08 17:57:20 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr: that's a good question
Apr 08 17:57:37 <morrildl> the source will be available, and we intend that it be buildable by hobbyists
Apr 08 17:57:40 <michaelnovakjr> i have an htc touch and really like it, and would like to run it on that
Apr 08 17:57:48 <morrildl> so you will be able to build a custom system image
Apr 08 17:58:04 <michaelnovakjr> i mean if the phone can run windows mobile, its gotta be able to run anything ;)
Apr 08 17:58:08 <morrildl> whether you will be able to get all the drivers you need, we hope so, but there might be a few cases where you can't
Apr 08 17:58:16 <morrildl> yeah
Apr 08 17:58:23 <morrildl> the big problem is being able to physically reflash the device
Apr 08 17:58:26 <morrildl> HTC is really good about that
Apr 08 17:58:28 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 08 17:58:43 <michaelnovakjr> then OEM's should allow you to upgrade your device
Apr 08 17:58:49 <morrildl> one possible issue is the bootloader stuff
Apr 08 17:59:02 <michaelnovakjr> otherwise if you ask me it defeats the purpose of Open Handset Alliance
Apr 08 17:59:04 <morrildl> the bootloader on a device has to be friendly with the OS, in some ways
Apr 08 17:59:06 <zhobbs> lots of these should work right: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html
Apr 08 18:03:05 <michaelnovakjr> i am curious to see how android does with battery compared to win mobile.... my phone's battery life is terrible
Apr 08 18:03:49 <zhobbs> we'll see....probably more up to the developers for the apps you use than android itself
Apr 08 18:04:02 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 08 18:04:18 <michaelnovakjr> but when running zero apps the battery still sucks :)
Apr 08 18:04:38 <zhobbs> lots of apps might have the mindset since I always have internet,gps, etc why not always use it
Apr 08 18:04:39 <michaelnovakjr> just messaging and whatever runs by default
Apr 08 18:04:58 <michaelnovakjr> and use it often :)
Apr 08 18:05:08 <zhobbs> yeah
Apr 08 18:06:51 <michaelnovakjr> i think open source in the cellphone industry would be huge
Apr 08 18:07:12 <michaelnovakjr> providers still get money from usage charges.... and they get contributions from the community
Apr 08 18:07:36 <michaelnovakjr> and users get the satisfaction of getting phone software that works for them :)
Apr 08 18:30:37 <acsia> what type of shell is used by android?
Apr 08 18:30:41 <acsia> does anybody know?
Apr 08 18:39:48 <benley> you mean the default unix shell in the os image?
Apr 08 18:40:00 <benley> you can find out by doing 'adb shell' with the emulator running
Apr 08 18:43:42 <acsia> yes but what type of shell
Apr 08 18:43:57 <acsia> I keep getting the weird characters with left, right etc,,, keys
Apr 08 18:45:22 <benley> run ps and see what it says
Apr 08 18:45:34 <benley> it's more likely termcap problems than anything to do with the shell
Apr 08 18:46:56 <acsia> yes most probably
Apr 08 18:47:01 <acsia> on windows it is fine
Apr 08 18:47:18 <acsia> not sure how to change that
Apr 08 18:58:23 <muthu> Android Dream set to unveil on May 6? - http://helloandroid.com/node/344
Apr 08 18:59:43 <michaelnovakjr> you developers on the IRC are famous!
Apr 08 18:59:56 <muthu> lol
Apr 08 19:01:18 <zhobbs> I never made the connection with May 5th winners announced and May 6 mysterious HTC press conference
Apr 08 19:02:07 <muthu> the credit goes to jasta
Apr 08 19:02:21 <muthu> he told me that today morning
Apr 08 19:02:25 <chomchom> evening all
Apr 08 19:02:28 <michaelnovakjr> jasta get ready for 60 minutes....
Apr 08 19:02:53 <muthu> thats when i started joking about jasta being the google undercover agent :)
Apr 08 19:03:12 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 19:03:50 <muthu> but the dates are all aligned well now
Apr 08 19:04:09 <muthu> and a real device is a MUST for phase 2
Apr 08 19:04:26 <chomchom> I saw the thread making guesses that the winners will be all the android household names
Apr 08 19:04:28 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Apr 08 19:04:43 <chomchom> I would like that to be true
Apr 08 19:04:47 <muthu> oh yeah, that's for fun
Apr 08 19:04:53 <zhobbs> yeah, I don't know if that'll be the case though
Apr 08 19:05:01 <michaelnovakjr> well, wait... those of us in the IRC are now going to be the cool dudes
Apr 08 19:05:02 <chomchom> It would be a nice testament to hard work but we'll see
Apr 08 19:05:19 <zhobbs> hopefully #android has a good showing
Apr 08 19:05:30 <muthu> hope so
Apr 08 19:05:39 <michaelnovakjr> seems like a good possibility
Apr 08 19:06:20 <chomchom> Yeah, there must be loads of hardcore developers out there who have been slogging away in the darkness, knowing that the other android developers were out there, somewhere
Apr 08 19:06:22 <muthu> i'm 100% sure of 1 winner out of the 5 i predicted
Apr 08 19:06:53 <muthu> the chance of winning is pretty high
Apr 08 19:06:59 <zhobbs> muthu: who?
Apr 08 19:07:03 <davidw> which ones did you predict?
Apr 08 19:07:08 <michaelnovakjr> i hope they consider a public service weather app is something special :)
Apr 08 19:07:13 <chomchom> Me for one, I sure hope that plusminus gets a look in
Apr 08 19:07:29 <muthu> the usual suspects
Apr 08 19:07:34 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, maybe if it lets you control the weather
Apr 08 19:07:38 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 19:07:47 <muthu> lol
Apr 08 19:07:52 <michaelnovakjr> not control.... but prepare :)
Apr 08 19:07:58 <muthu> that would be a killer app ;)
Apr 08 19:08:01 <jerkface03> you think they'll showcase any of the winning apps? or will they just tell the winners that they won and keep it on the downlow?
Apr 08 19:08:13 <muthu> showcase, definitely
Apr 08 19:08:21 <muthu> needs to make noise
Apr 08 19:08:23 <zhobbs> jerkface03: I was wondering...are they alowed to distribute the apks of the winners
Apr 08 19:08:33 <jerkface03> i would assume that they'd need to be permission first?
Apr 08 19:08:38 <jerkface03> well, apks is one thing
Apr 08 19:08:41 <michaelnovakjr> whats it say in the ADC paperwork?
Apr 08 19:08:42 <chomchom> its at their discretion surely
Apr 08 19:08:43 <jerkface03> descriptions and screenshots are another
Apr 08 19:09:13 <davidw> http://www.talkandroid.com/65-google-android-nokia-n810/
Apr 08 19:09:16 <jerkface03> i just want to see what everyone was working on
Apr 08 19:09:39 <chomchom> Yeah, I can't wait to see what everyone is working
Apr 08 19:09:41 <chomchom> on
Apr 08 19:09:46 <muthu> the winners will definitely come forward
Apr 08 19:10:18 <zhobbs> I think they'll demo the apps on the prototype if they announce a phone May 6
Apr 08 19:10:19 <muthu> because you get tons of marketing, and the investors
Apr 08 19:10:54 <muthu> the demo is on
Apr 08 19:11:06 <michaelnovakjr> i am going to have to keep busy after next week to keep the suspense and excitement from getting to me ;)
Apr 08 19:12:03 <muthu> actually i'm more psyched about the search engine that we're building
Apr 08 19:12:10 <chomchom> I've really enjoyed it for one, it was a great introduction to the android platform. I hope that more software platforms try the same thing.
Apr 08 19:12:27 <muthu> yeah, android brought a lot of excitement
Apr 08 19:12:34 <michaelnovakjr> chomchom, i agree
Apr 08 19:12:38 <muthu> Google, thank you.
Apr 08 19:12:42 <davidw> I like this a lot more than the KP 'venture fund' for iPhone apps
Apr 08 19:12:53 <chomchom> I don't think I would l have spent just as much time on it otherwise.
Apr 08 19:12:55 <davidw> I have a shot at building an app on my own...
Apr 08 19:13:01 <muthu> did anyone get a reply for the iFund??
Apr 08 19:13:17 <michaelnovakjr> haven't even attempted to look at it
Apr 08 19:13:19 <davidw> muthu, yeah, iThinkWellPass
Apr 08 19:13:33 <davidw> no, kidding, not interested in it at all
Apr 08 19:13:36 <michaelnovakjr> once they fix that background process crap maybe i'll look at it
Apr 08 19:13:36 <chomchom> I certainly wouldn't have as much fodder to defend it taking up time away from my girlfriend!
Apr 08 19:13:39 <muthu> they said, they reply in 2 weeks
Apr 08 19:14:03 <chomchom> I sent a few mails to enquire about the ifund
Apr 08 19:14:06 <muthu> i was put off when i heard you need apple, WTH?
Apr 08 19:14:18 <muthu> chom any replies?
Apr 08 19:14:39 <chomchom> As I'm interested in making a C sharp app anyway so I'm thinking about a port
Apr 08 19:14:50 <michaelnovakjr> c sharp is pretty cool
Apr 08 19:14:50 <chomchom> yeah they sent a pdf with a basic summary
Apr 08 19:14:58 <B0jangles> I like C#
Apr 08 19:15:12 <B0jangles> I'm working on a 2D puzzle game in XNA (in my spare time)(
Apr 08 19:15:19 <chomchom> The ifund is a lot more traditional strategy
Apr 08 19:15:22 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Apr 08 19:15:35 <chomchom> where the google competition is a competition
Apr 08 19:15:38 <muthu> i did a 3 line business plan, and did not get a reply
Apr 08 19:15:43 <muthu> lol
Apr 08 19:15:50 <chomchom> the ifund is a bunch of investors getting together to take stakes in a claim
Apr 08 19:15:57 <jerkface03> muthu: 1. Make game    2. ??????     3. Profit!
Apr 08 19:16:04 <B0jangles> Yeah, with the iFund, you're giving up at least a portion of your proifits
Apr 08 19:16:05 <muthu> ha ha
Apr 08 19:16:12 <B0jangles> and ownership
Apr 08 19:16:16 <michaelnovakjr> haa
Apr 08 19:16:26 <muthu> too many questions
Apr 08 19:16:29 <chomchom> B0jangles: not that that is a bad thing
Apr 08 19:16:37 <B0jangles> chomchom: not at all
Apr 08 19:16:40 * davidw did not have a good experience with KP at Linuxcare
Apr 08 19:16:45 <B0jangles> just different
Apr 08 19:16:56 <davidw> they installed some really shitty management (hi Fernand)
Apr 08 19:17:10 <chomchom> I am just aware there would be a more traditional developement and business plan involved
Apr 08 19:17:56 <B0jangles> yes, it's basically the same as any business where you're trying to get people to invest
Apr 08 19:18:04 <B0jangles> it's just a bunch of people have been kind of aggrigated
Apr 08 19:18:50 <muthu> hmm.. now i need to learn python
Apr 08 19:18:51 <chomchom> Smart though, just to grab the headlines, topping googles figure but not actually making any added investment
Apr 08 19:19:07 <davidw> muthu, I'll wait till they work out the bugs and add Ruby
Apr 08 19:19:12 <davidw> although Python's pretty good
Apr 08 19:19:20 <muthu> me too.. not interested in GAE for now
Apr 08 19:19:29 <chomchom> to the world who will pay attention for 2mins it will detract away from the android appeal and add to the iphone majesty
Apr 08 19:19:33 <muthu> i'll wait atleast for PHP if not java
Apr 08 19:19:56 <muthu> chom agree, good marketing scam
Apr 08 19:20:07 <f00f-> GAE is a security nightmare waiting to happen imho
Apr 08 19:20:13 <davidw> yeah, it's "up to 543543 zillion dollars"
Apr 08 19:20:16 <davidw> which might be $10
Apr 08 19:20:39 <muthu> f00f how?
Apr 08 19:21:00 <f00f-> it just doesn't feel right
Apr 08 19:21:19 <f00f-> so many unknown variables
Apr 08 19:21:21 <f00f-> regarding the backend
Apr 08 19:21:37 <muthu> hmmm
Apr 08 19:21:37 <f00f-> but then again, i doubt many will use it for high-security apps anyway
Apr 08 19:22:10 <f00f-> it's another example of "googlify your business/life/etc."
Apr 08 19:22:14 <f00f-> host * on their platform
Apr 08 19:22:18 <f00f-> which is good to a certain extent imho
Apr 08 19:22:32 <muthu> yeah, if only we can use it
Apr 08 19:23:26 <muthu> guess for now i'll use amazon
Apr 08 19:23:41 <f00f-> ah
Apr 08 19:23:42 <f00f-> GQL!!
Apr 08 19:23:43 <f00f-> rofl
Apr 08 19:23:52 <f00f-> GQL is a SQL-like language for retrieving data entities from the App Engine scalable datastore.
Apr 08 19:24:19 <f00f-> what would be really cool is if google would release their platform
Apr 08 19:24:24 <f00f-> instead of offering it as a service
Apr 08 19:24:41 <f00f-> but i guess that's what makes them google :)
Apr 08 19:25:34 <muthu> i really don't understand the reasoning behind python
Apr 08 19:25:40 <romainguy_> why?
Apr 08 19:25:55 <romainguy_> Python is as good of as language as Java, PHP, Ruby or whatever
Apr 08 19:26:00 <muthu> its not the merits i'm talking about romain
Apr 08 19:26:02 <romainguy_> it also happens to be widely used at Google :)
Apr 08 19:26:18 <romainguy_> And it's also the *first* language to be supported on GAE
Apr 08 19:26:20 <romainguy_> not *the*
Apr 08 19:26:30 <muthu> true, i can understand
Apr 08 19:26:55 <muthu> i would have expected PHP, or Java or even Perl
Apr 08 19:27:07 <davidw> Perl?! yeah right
Apr 08 19:27:10 <muthu> just for the adoption sake
Apr 08 19:27:20 <muthu> haha perl
Apr 08 19:27:22 <f00f-> <3 perl
Apr 08 19:27:26 <davidw> they employ python widely internally, and... employ Guido too
Apr 08 19:27:41 <f00f-> i do production-quality hacks in perl, php for everything web
Apr 08 19:27:47 <muthu> that's a reasoning which concerns me a bit
Apr 08 19:27:53 <davidw> Java or python were the only candidates, from everything I know about Google
Apr 08 19:28:04 <romainguy_> it's just a language
Apr 08 19:28:08 <romainguy_> and pretty easy to learn with that
Apr 08 19:28:09 <davidw> muthu, they'll support other languages
Apr 08 19:28:10 <michaelnovakjr> i am just not a scripting language fan when you throw html in the pages
Apr 08 19:28:15 <muthu> yes
Apr 08 19:28:18 <f00f-> ideally you just put in a Parrot VM or equivalent
Apr 08 19:28:21 <michaelnovakjr> i think it should all be separate
Apr 08 19:28:26 <f00f-> and allow folks to give their binaries
Apr 08 19:28:38 <f00f-> a la Mono or .NET
Apr 08 19:28:46 <davidw> f00f-, yes, but that's science fiction
Apr 08 19:29:11 <michaelnovakjr> i like symfony for web-based php work
Apr 08 19:29:19 <B0jangles> symfony?
Apr 08 19:29:31 <f00f-> heh, so much framework love here
Apr 08 19:29:37 <michaelnovakjr> its very similar to rails
Apr 08 19:29:49 <B0jangles> I've never been much of a "framework" guy
Apr 08 19:29:49 <michaelnovakjr> its keeps things nice and neat
Apr 08 19:29:55 <michaelnovakjr> i love neat code
Apr 08 19:29:57 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Apr 08 19:30:13 <B0jangles> one can write perfectly neat code without a framework
Apr 08 19:30:21 <muthu> i feel like the rails noise have come down a bit
Apr 08 19:30:21 <f00f-> B0jangles: same here
Apr 08 19:30:25 * davidw likes rails a lot.  They got a lot of stuff right
Apr 08 19:30:35 <f00f-> i have my own XML/XSL system that's been stable since 2002
Apr 08 19:30:37 <f00f-> and i reuse it a lot
Apr 08 19:31:03 <f00f-> really the most challenging part is getting the damn XSL to look nice :)
Apr 08 19:31:17 <michaelnovakjr> B0jangles that is true but when you throw HTML into the mix its a pain
Apr 08 19:31:20 <f00f-> i don't have much patience/interest in web layouts
Apr 08 19:31:27 <michaelnovakjr> same here
Apr 08 19:31:39 <michaelnovakjr> i'd rather write software :)
Apr 08 19:31:40 <zhobbs> me either
Apr 08 19:31:44 <f00f-> but i just love defining my own data in XML
Apr 08 19:31:45 <loic-pointgphone> hi
Apr 08 19:31:52 <f00f-> and let the web folks plug that stuff into the stylesheet
Apr 08 19:32:16 <muthu> hi loic
Apr 08 19:32:34 * davidw wishes there were a web graphics dude working on my current efforts:-/
Apr 08 19:33:00 <f00f-> we bought some stock photos
Apr 08 19:33:15 <f00f-> and used inkscape/gimp to cut stuff out and resize
Apr 08 19:33:22 <muthu> me too, i need a designer
Apr 08 19:33:29 <muthu> designers are hard to find
Apr 08 19:33:58 <chomchom> No, I don't think they are, just peruse some forums and post some threads
Apr 08 19:34:35 <chomchom> It will be easy enough to get someone once you have an app
Apr 08 19:35:30 <muthu> yeah chom
Apr 08 19:35:44 <muthu> i already have one through the forums
Apr 08 19:35:50 <muthu> good idea
Apr 08 19:47:32 <B0jangles> Had to step away for a minute...but I'm curious why anybody would be under the impression that a framework lets you write neater code?
Apr 08 19:47:56 <B0jangles> I mean, the framework is written in code
Apr 08 19:48:01 <B0jangles> It's not like it's magic or something
Apr 08 19:48:04 <chomchom> Because frameworks by their definition reduce redundancy
Apr 08 19:48:19 <B0jangles> so do good coding practices
Apr 08 19:48:34 <chomchom> They do as well
Apr 08 19:49:26 <dpino> I think frameworks are a good idea when they help to be more productive
Apr 08 19:49:32 <davidw> B0jangles, in some cases, the dudes writing the framework are better than the random dudes using it
Apr 08 19:49:43 <B0jangles> I suppose
Apr 08 19:49:47 <chomchom> Using a framework forces a user to build in a certain way from the outset. Some do not approach software with defined patterns and to them it just seems better.
Apr 08 19:49:58 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 08 19:50:32 <B0jangles> too constraining...
Apr 08 19:50:57 <f00f-> good frameworks follow great patterns
Apr 08 19:51:01 <f00f-> i see few of such
Apr 08 19:51:11 <chomchom> I don't think so, like you said it's not magic
Apr 08 19:51:21 <chomchom> They don't stop you from programming around them
Apr 08 19:51:34 <michaelnovakjr> they help you if you know how to use them
Apr 08 19:51:51 <michaelnovakjr> it saves you time from having to write boilerplate code
Apr 08 19:52:52 <B0jangles> I can see where there are benefits...
Apr 08 19:52:54 <dpino> the point is when they do not provide a solution for something, then you are constraint within the framework
Apr 08 19:53:00 <dpino> and thats the worse
Apr 08 19:53:06 <B0jangles> I just don't see where it would help to make my code neater
Apr 08 19:53:22 <f00f-> it depends really if you have a lot of homegrown code already
Apr 08 19:53:29 <f00f-> if you do, sometimes it's just best to DIY
Apr 08 19:53:32 <B0jangles> What's the difference if I write a class or somebody else writes the class
Apr 08 19:53:39 <B0jangles> yeah, time savings is a definite benefit
Apr 08 19:53:40 <michaelnovakjr> time
Apr 08 19:53:43 <B0jangles> can't argue wtih that
Apr 08 19:53:47 <davidw> B0jangles, ever tried rails?
Apr 08 19:53:51 <f00f-> the only thing boilerplate i have is database abstraction and session management
Apr 08 19:53:53 <davidw> it really does get a lot of things right
Apr 08 19:53:58 <f00f-> that's all i'd want from a framework tbh
Apr 08 19:53:58 <davidw> django probably qualifies as well
Apr 08 19:54:07 <michaelnovakjr> session management classes are very helpful in saving time
Apr 08 19:54:26 <B0jangles> davidw: I looked at it a bit, but then I thought to myself, "I can already do all of this in PHP, ColdFusion, and Perl...why would I want to learn yet another language"
Apr 08 19:54:32 <B0jangles> oh, Java too
Apr 08 19:54:35 <B0jangles> JSP
Apr 08 19:54:39 <michaelnovakjr> ew jsp
Apr 08 19:54:44 <davidw> ew
Apr 08 19:54:46 <B0jangles> never said I liked JSP
Apr 08 19:54:48 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 19:54:48 <B0jangles> but it exists
Apr 08 19:54:55 <chomchom> I like rails, it's done a lot for spreading a method of programming.
Apr 08 19:55:06 <davidw> stuff like 1.day.ago is handy, IMO
Apr 08 19:55:06 <f00f-> lots of misconceptions
Apr 08 19:55:13 <f00f-> JSP and ASP are not now what PHP used to be
Apr 08 19:55:18 <f00f-> mixed HTML and code shit
Apr 08 19:55:27 <f00f-> you can still do it, but lots of templating systems involved
Apr 08 19:55:33 <f00f-> so no intermixing of markup and code
Apr 08 19:55:51 <michaelnovakjr> markup and code should never be mixed
Apr 08 19:55:56 <michaelnovakjr> that should be a mortal sin
Apr 08 19:56:02 <B0jangles> michaelnovakjr: that's what I hate about ColdFusion
Apr 08 19:56:03 <michaelnovakjr> excommunication for that crap
Apr 08 19:56:13 <michaelnovakjr> that is what i hate
Apr 08 19:56:24 <michaelnovakjr> markup should be entirely separate from logic
Apr 08 19:56:43 <michaelnovakjr> that way designers work with markup and programmers work with logic
Apr 08 19:56:52 <B0jangles> indeed
Apr 08 19:56:57 <michaelnovakjr> and everyone is happy in the utopia of web development :)
Apr 08 19:57:02 <f00f-> heh
Apr 08 19:57:05 <B0jangles> Well, I don't know many designers that write good HTML
Apr 08 19:57:17 <zhobbs> ASP.NET 2.0 is actually pretty nice for templating/logic layout separation (don't get confused, asp.net 1 sucks)
Apr 08 19:57:19 <michaelnovakjr> html specific coders
Apr 08 19:57:19 * zhobbs hides
Apr 08 19:57:22 <B0jangles> Mostly, I prefer to get Illustrator or Photoshop files
Apr 08 19:57:33 <B0jangles> Ugh, ASP...
Apr 08 19:57:38 <michaelnovakjr> ugh iis
Apr 08 19:58:01 <B0jangles> I used ASP once about 7 or 8 years ago
Apr 08 19:58:09 * zhobbs has been forced to use it many times
Apr 08 19:58:19 <B0jangles> Most of the examples and documentation I could find use VBScript
Apr 08 19:58:23 <B0jangles> ugh
Apr 08 19:59:01 <zhobbs> No, you can use C#
Apr 08 19:59:10 <B0jangles> I know you can use C#
Apr 08 19:59:28 <B0jangles> But when you're working on a project, and you have tight deadlines, and all of the documentation (at that time) uses VBScript...
Apr 08 19:59:52 <B0jangles> ...you go with VBScript
Apr 08 19:59:57 <B0jangles> And you hate it ;-)
Apr 08 20:00:38 <zhobbs> C# is much better and docs are complete
Apr 08 20:00:44 <B0jangles> Hopefully they've embraced C# a bit more since I last worked with ASP
Apr 08 20:00:47 <B0jangles> It sounds like they have
Apr 08 20:01:58 <zhobbs> I wouldn't want to run a windows server though...so wouldn't ever use any of that crap unless I was forced to
Apr 08 20:02:26 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 08 20:02:29 <B0jangles> I thought you could run some version of ASP on Apache?
Apr 08 20:02:31 <michaelnovakjr> i am not a fan of windows server
Apr 08 20:13:53 <f00f-> yeah you can
Apr 08 20:13:57 <f00f-> but let's not go there
Apr 08 20:14:02 <f00f-> i've personally done it
Apr 08 20:14:04 <f00f-> mod_asp or something
Apr 08 20:14:07 <f00f-> way back in the day
Apr 08 20:15:45 <B0jangles> I've yet to see anything that I think is any better than PHP.
Apr 08 20:16:01 <michaelnovakjr> as far as scripting... i agree
Apr 08 20:16:35 <B0jangles> Well, yeah, not comparing it to C++ or anything
Apr 08 20:23:58 <muthu> PHP rocks
Apr 08 20:24:05 <muthu> and i bid goodnight
Apr 08 20:24:11 <B0jangles> night
Apr 08 20:29:47 <f00f-> nite
Apr 08 21:02:35 <jasta> you people are idiots.  PHP is a pathetic mess.
Apr 08 21:04:01 <jasta> It seemed to have just congealed together, avoiding entirely the need for a thoughtful design.
Apr 08 21:06:53 <jerkface03> ok. don't use it then
Apr 08 21:10:25 <f00f-> sup jerkface03, i didn't know you were in #j2me too!
Apr 08 21:10:31 <f00f-> what app are you working on for AD?C
Apr 08 21:10:52 <jerkface03> framework
Apr 08 21:11:01 <jerkface03> i submitted it 2 days ago
Apr 08 21:11:08 <f00f-> for gaming?
Apr 08 21:11:11 <jerkface03> werd
Apr 08 21:11:15 <f00f-> ah that is you then
Apr 08 21:11:19 <f00f-> you think it'll win?
Apr 08 21:11:38 <jerkface03> ?? that is me then?
Apr 08 21:11:51 <jerkface03> probably not, it lacks alot of samples
Apr 08 21:11:58 <jerkface03> there's one main demo and thats it
Apr 08 21:12:05 <f00f-> i'd improve it
Apr 08 21:12:15 <f00f-> judges need samples
Apr 08 21:12:36 <jerkface03> they'll have to make due with what's there, i got too much shit coming up
Apr 08 21:27:23 <acsia> is selectionArgs working on sql queries?
Apr 08 21:27:27 <acsia> I am a bit confused
Apr 08 21:27:45 <acsia> You may include ?s in selection, which will be replaced by the values from selectionArgs, in order that they appear in the selection. The values will be bound as Strings.
Apr 08 21:27:57 <acsia> how does that work?
Apr 08 21:29:16 <jasta> by escaping the args and then by substitution into the selection.
Apr 08 21:29:20 <jasta> it's just WHERE foo=bar magic.
Apr 08 21:29:56 <acsia> I have a raw query, so would I use select * from mytable where _id='?s'
Apr 08 21:30:01 <acsia> is this correct?
Apr 08 21:30:36 <acsia> without the quote it does not work btw and with I am not sure
Apr 08 21:30:57 <chomchom> oh thats quite a good way to do it actually.
Apr 08 21:31:34 <chomchom> I've been using functions which serve the query appended with the parameters, but thats neater
Apr 08 21:32:03 <jasta> chomchom: this is pretty common in DB frameworks that are not braindead.
Apr 08 21:32:14 <jasta> since it trivially prevents injection attacks
Apr 08 21:32:17 <acsia> I have the same query in my shell and it works, if I use in my code, it returns an empty cursor
Apr 08 21:32:26 <jasta> perl's DBI, for example, does this.
Apr 08 21:32:38 <jasta> acsia: check adb logcat.  it will show you the query that failed and it will be obvious to you why it failed
Apr 08 21:32:42 <jasta> or it should be.  just pay attention :)(
Apr 08 21:32:44 <jasta> erm :)
Apr 08 21:33:00 <chomchom> Thats a good point actually, I haven't been cleaning strings
Apr 08 21:33:17 <acsia> well it does not fail, it returns an empty cursor
Apr 08 21:33:28 <acsia> AFAIK it does not print all queries
Apr 08 21:33:34 <chomchom> used to dbhelpers doing it for me :/
Apr 08 21:34:51 <chomchom> Bet you got a good confidence boost injection today jasta with the thread about predictions! Certainly a nice complement
Apr 08 21:36:12 <lenni_-_> hi, how do i pass  a variable from one view to the next?
Apr 08 21:37:18 <jasta> chomchom: Yes, actually I have been feeling very good about my submission this past week.
Apr 08 21:37:20 <chomchom> lenni_-_: it's generally not a good idea to keep too much logic in a view
Apr 08 21:37:26 <jasta> I think I will have a strong showing for the judges.
Apr 08 21:37:35 <chomchom> You should have a controller do the work for you as an intermedite
Apr 08 21:37:49 <jasta> Hello Jason.  What brings you here? :)
Apr 08 21:38:14 <chomchom> pass the controller to the view and then call it to do something from within the vie on onclick
Apr 08 21:38:32 <lenni_-_> how do i pass something to a view? via an intent?
Apr 08 21:38:47 <chomchom> An intent is passed between activities
Apr 08 21:39:00 <chomchom> a view is a gui concept
Apr 08 21:39:14 <jasta> ...and Romain.  I think they just got out of a meeting or something ;)
Apr 08 21:39:22 <chomchom> so if you want to pass it between activities you putExtras in an intent
Apr 08 21:39:42 <chomchom> and then getExtras on the other side of the activity
Apr 08 21:40:55 <jasta> lenni_-_: what he's saying is that you should organize your logic such that you interact with a controller, which then determines what to do with UI components.  this is a general design pattern, not anything particular to Android.
Apr 08 21:40:59 <davidw> "sorry guys, we cancelled android, better luck next time"
Apr 08 21:41:10 <chomchom> heh
Apr 08 21:41:36 <lenni_-_> i start my intent by myIntent = new Intent(HelloAndroid.this, ResultList.class)
Apr 08 21:41:57 <lenni_-_> can i just pass another argument to myIntent.
Apr 08 21:42:08 <lenni_-_> ?
Apr 08 21:43:12 <chomchom> Bundle bundle = new Bundle(GO);
Apr 08 21:43:12 <chomchom> bundle.putInt("key", value);
Apr 08 21:43:12 <chomchom> intent.putExtras(bundle);
Apr 08 21:50:54 <acsia> jasta: have you managed to use selectionArgs? I have the raw query with selectionArgs null and it works, as soon as i use id='?s', it fails with bailing out of select
Apr 08 21:51:11 <jasta> yes, i ahve used it
Apr 08 21:51:30 <acsia> on an int?
Apr 08 21:51:32 <jasta> "id=?", new String[] { "1" };
Apr 08 21:53:10 <acsia> jasta: arf, my bad, I misinterpreted the plurial
Apr 08 21:53:20 <acsia> I used ?s instead of ?
Apr 08 21:53:51 <acsia> thx
Apr 08 21:53:55 <jasta> don't use quotes either.
Apr 08 21:54:13 <jasta> foo=? is what you want.  the placeholder code will determine if quotes are necessary.
Apr 08 21:54:26 <acsia> no I have it now, with quote the query did not fail because sqlite took it as a string
Apr 08 21:54:39 <acsia> cheers
Apr 08 22:04:56 <chomchom> Guys I have a query about the emulator. Is there a way I can easily package up location data to add it to the emulator without asking people to use the adb console? Because I have some stubbed out location cases that I would like to provide instead of the default gps mock location provider. Is there any way to do that?
Apr 08 22:11:38 <acsia> I would be interested to know that actually
Apr 08 22:11:50 <acsia> but I guess an adb push is not that hard...
Apr 08 22:11:59 <davidw> I'm faking it
Apr 08 22:12:11 <chomchom> You mean hardcoding it?
Apr 08 22:15:14 <davidw> yep
Apr 08 22:15:38 <davidw> for certain kinds of apps, you have to invest a lot of effort in mocking things up so they look nice
Apr 08 22:20:04 <chomchom> Got a white board today, it's funny how cool I think having a white board to work with is, and how uncool all my friends think it is :)
Apr 08 22:21:57 <jasta> it's uncool
Apr 08 22:22:35 <chomchom> It's way cool man.
Apr 08 22:23:29 <acsia> what kind of white board?
Apr 08 22:23:33 <Bonkers> my friend stole a full-sized black board and put it in his dorm room, he even built a custom blackboard stand
Apr 08 22:23:35 <Bonkers> it was awesome
Apr 08 22:23:38 <acsia> the one with paper
Apr 08 22:23:38 <davidw> the more you smell the pens, the cooler it gets
Apr 08 22:24:08 <acsia> the one erasable? or behold the wii one?
Apr 08 22:24:30 <chomchom> Ha yeah totally
Apr 08 22:24:40 <chomchom> I'm totally going to do the wii sensor thing
Apr 08 22:25:40 <acsia> I played around with it at one point
Apr 08 22:25:42 <acsia> it s very cool
Apr 08 22:25:45 <chomchom> Mucho respect to that guy for recognizing that VR like potential.
Apr 08 22:25:53 <acsia> indeed
Apr 08 23:09:36 <jasta> sigh, i don't think i score very high on "effective use of the android platform" from the user perspective, though i do make extensive use of the IPC and service architecture :\
Apr 08 23:10:46 <michaelnovakjr> effective use is not the same as over use
Apr 08 23:11:16 <jasta> that's true :)
Apr 08 23:11:42 <jasta> i would say i have made effective use of the platform, but only from the perspective of my software design
Apr 08 23:12:31 <michaelnovakjr> which should be good enough, think of it this way... why would you implement stuff that doesn't enhance your app
Apr 08 23:12:50 <michaelnovakjr> effective use implies good design and usage of resources available to you
Apr 08 23:12:58 <michaelnovakjr> or atleast that is what it should mean
Apr 08 23:13:41 <jasta> right but i dont know how they'll design that.
Apr 08 23:13:43 <jasta> err, decide that*
Apr 08 23:17:38 <chomchom> Hmm, don't know how I fair from a platform perspective. But I hope that the platform will give people access to useful applications who before may not necessarily use a computer too often. I think I fall in that category.
Apr 08 23:20:13 <morrildl> It's enough
Apr 08 23:20:21 <morrildl> each axis is just an axis of measurement
Apr 08 23:20:25 <morrildl> you don't have to excel at them all
Apr 08 23:20:47 <morrildl> The point is just to make sure we are transparent in the things we are looking for, it doesn't mean that we're looking for them all to be embodied in a single app
Apr 08 23:23:16 <chomchom> I wonder if google will have more code days after the hand in. That would be cool. It would be nice to go to one now with a lot more experience. Never got the opportunity before.
Apr 08 23:23:35 <michaelnovakjr> i agree chomchom
Apr 08 23:24:38 <chomchom> It would give us a chance to mingle/drink at pub with the bloggers as well.
Apr 08 23:25:12 <michaelnovakjr> absolutely
Apr 08 23:25:21 <michaelnovakjr> its a good idea
Apr 08 23:32:17 <morrildl> chomchom: after the Challenge ends, the next big thing is Google I/O at the end of May
Apr 08 23:32:33 <morrildl> I cannot WAIT until freakin' handsets launch
Apr 08 23:32:44 <chomchom> yeah that will be a big hype
Apr 08 23:33:08 <morrildl> because then we will finally get to do our job of talking to developers and stuff instead of being the official random jobbers :)
Apr 08 23:34:11 <chomchom> heh, yes it must be quite frustrating. Hold it back morrildl, we're nearly there. Then you can run outside and shout to the skies.
Apr 08 23:34:15 <acsia> Google I/O sounds cool
Apr 08 23:34:25 <morrildl> chomchom: :)
Apr 08 23:34:52 <acsia> I wish I could go
Apr 08 23:35:00 <morrildl> after the Challenge dust settles we are immediately going to turn our attention to working on the Google I/O content
Apr 08 23:36:00 <chomchom> shame it's in blinkin san fran blinkin cisco
Apr 08 23:37:10 <acsia> it is a shame indeed... would cost a bit much on my savings... and not really sure how to announce it to my manager
Apr 08 23:37:55 <acsia> hum,,, I ve been very bored recently so I took up the google android challenge and would like to go to SF for the I/O conference...
Apr 08 23:38:31 <acsia> if I win anything, I will definitely quit my job
Apr 08 23:38:44 <acsia> and if I don t probably as well :)
Apr 08 23:38:50 <chomchom> dearie me acsia thats a sweeping statement
Apr 08 23:38:51 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 23:39:25 <chomchom> Well hopefully it's given you some new (to be) much saught after skills
Apr 08 23:39:44 <acsia> I am pretty sure it has
Apr 08 23:39:58 <acsia> I was at the london android meetup and got some contacts
Apr 08 23:40:10 <chomchom> are you in the UK acsia?
Apr 08 23:40:15 <acsia> yep
Apr 08 23:40:21 <chomchom> hooray!
Apr 08 23:40:25 <chomchom> I'm in GLasgow
Apr 08 23:40:55 <acsia> nice, so you 'work' on android when the night falls I take it
Apr 08 23:41:07 <chomchom> quite
Apr 08 23:41:16 <acsia> nice
Apr 08 23:41:25 <chomchom> I really wanted there to be something like an after submission get together but suprisingly enough no one has said anything
Apr 08 23:41:35 <chomchom> the android meeting is on the monday
Apr 08 23:41:48 <acsia> in Glasgow?
Apr 08 23:41:50 <chomchom> Which is not ideal when you are in scotland
Apr 08 23:41:55 <acsia> a ok
Apr 08 23:41:55 <chomchom> no, in london
Apr 08 23:42:06 <acsia> yes indeed I ll probably go to the next on
Apr 08 23:42:42 <acsia> there were not that many people last time which was a shame
Apr 08 23:42:50 <acsia> do you know truphone?
Apr 08 23:42:59 <chomchom> truphone?
Apr 08 23:43:15 <acsia> http://www.truphone.com/
Apr 08 23:43:18 <acsia> voip
Apr 08 23:43:27 <chomchom> Was he there sweet
Apr 08 23:43:29 <acsia> they were at the meeting
Apr 08 23:43:31 <acsia> yep
Apr 08 23:43:40 <acsia> and the guy had like 50 different phones
Apr 08 23:43:48 <chomchom> ha!
Apr 08 23:43:51 <acsia> and he saw the android prototype as well
Apr 08 23:44:27 <acsia> I am quite impressed by the number of companies that are moving towards android
Apr 08 23:45:09 <chomchom> Yes, it's no secret that analysts have recommended the mobile platform for enterprise growth.
Apr 08 23:45:23 <acsia> now s the big question... should I go to bed and wake up early or should I grab a coffee and work a couple of more hours
Apr 08 23:45:41 <chomchom> coffee my friend, I have an esspresso right here
Apr 08 23:45:42 <donomo> acsia: early to bed and early to rise
Apr 08 23:45:50 <chomchom> now you know I'm up you have to match me.
Apr 08 23:45:55 <acsia> ha
Apr 08 23:46:06 <chomchom> And I'll be in for 9..ish
Apr 08 23:46:18 <acsia> olala ok, I go get some coffee
Apr 08 23:46:28 <chomchom> Where do you work acsia?
Apr 08 23:46:32 <donomo> the forces of evil have won this round.
Apr 08 23:46:42 <chomchom> heh
Apr 08 23:47:19 <acsia> anybody from HP here?
Apr 08 23:47:35 <chomchom> far from evil, chomchom is the mighty driving force or your will power
Apr 08 23:47:40 <acsia> just ensuring my annonimity
Apr 08 23:47:51 <chomchom> ah right
Apr 08 23:47:58 <acsia> as I express my wish to quit my job
Apr 08 23:48:09 <acsia> I used to work for another company that has been taken over by HP
Apr 08 23:48:17 <chomchom> This is a public IRC, I wouldn't mention it again myself :)
Apr 08 23:48:25 <chomchom> ah right
Apr 08 23:48:27 <acsia> if something like that happen, you should run
Apr 08 23:48:55 <chomchom> I really doubt my company is going to get taken over any time soon, they are currently eating others.
Apr 08 23:49:21 <michaelnovakjr> what company chomchom
Apr 08 23:49:35 <chomchom> JPMorgan Chase
Apr 08 23:49:42 <michaelnovakjr> ah yes
Apr 08 23:49:54 <acsia> aha! well now is the time isnt it
Apr 08 23:49:59 <morrildl> chomchom: an opportunistic feeder, in this economic client ;)
Apr 08 23:50:00 <chomchom> or JPMorgan bear chase
Apr 08 23:50:11 <morrildl> climate even
Apr 08 23:50:16 <michaelnovakjr> or JPMorgan bear chase sterns
Apr 08 23:50:25 <acsia> are you working on a android project for JPMorgan?
Apr 08 23:50:33 <chomchom> absolutely not
Apr 08 23:50:37 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 08 23:50:42 <acsia> I could have assumed that
Apr 08 23:50:47 <chomchom> just to make that quite clear :)
Apr 08 23:51:12 <acsia> you know the beauty with my current position is that I can work from home...
Apr 08 23:51:24 <acsia> now they did not define work :)
Apr 08 23:51:26 <chomchom> that is a great luxury
Apr 08 23:51:29 <michaelnovakjr> yea, working from home is quite nice
Apr 08 23:51:46 <chomchom> very productive too
Apr 08 23:51:56 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 08 23:52:41 * morrildl worked from home for two years
Apr 08 23:52:53 <chomchom> wowee
Apr 08 23:52:55 <morrildl> I learned that it works just fine, if everyone is on board and is doing it themselves
Apr 08 23:53:05 <morrildl> (it was a virtual company, everyone worked from home)
Apr 08 23:53:19 <chomchom> I used to have a company, of which the office was in my home. That rocked
Apr 08 23:53:23 <michaelnovakjr> interesting.....
Apr 08 23:53:36 <michaelnovakjr> i was thinking of starting a second life company.... ;)
Apr 08 23:53:49 <chomchom> Sitting on the patio in the nice garden with a laptop is a luxury on a summers day
Apr 08 23:53:59 <michaelnovakjr> absolutely
Apr 08 23:55:45 <chomchom> Acsia maybe we could arrange an adhoc android meeting in london sometime in a month or two on a summers day.
Apr 08 23:57:22 <acsia> that would be very cool
Apr 08 23:57:52 <acsia> I can sense a nice summer, last year was terrible
Apr 08 23:59:06 <acsia> chomchom: we could look into joining forces after the challenge
Apr 08 23:59:59 <chomchom> maybe.
Apr 09 00:00:18 <chomchom> I'll be looking for peeps to help with my project if you are interested
Apr 09 00:00:43 <acsia> we ll c, I am in the look out as well
Apr 09 00:01:04 <chomchom> heh, I bet everyone will be
Apr 09 00:01:17 <chomchom> After the submission will be an excellent time to recruit.
Apr 09 00:01:40 <acsia> after the 5th of may I would say ;)
Apr 09 00:02:55 <chomchom> Before it even, pre empt the competition
Apr 09 00:03:41 <acsia> sure
Apr 09 00:04:02 <acsia> do we have a number of applied projects? or number of people working on android?
Apr 09 00:04:56 <chomchom> 1billion
Apr 09 00:05:02 <chomchom> its anyones guess
Apr 09 00:11:34 <f00f-> bear sterns is coming out with an android banking application
Apr 09 00:12:58 <chomchom> really? :)
Apr 09 00:13:42 <f00f-> no, but it'd push up their stock price
Apr 09 00:14:45 <acsia> all companies will move towards mobil application sooner or later
Apr 09 00:15:05 <f00f-> well most already have
Apr 09 00:15:09 <f00f-> even in the US
Apr 09 00:15:14 <f00f-> Citibank has a J2ME app
Apr 09 00:15:25 <f00f-> ROW is 10 years ahead of course
Apr 09 00:15:29 <acsia> and we ll be talking around champagne glasses on the french riviera, remembering those moments before the end of the ADC
Apr 09 00:15:31 <f00f-> but US is catching up :)
Apr 09 00:15:37 <chomchom> I think it's the other way around. Applications are just becoming more mobile as software and hardware becomes smaller.
Apr 09 00:15:39 <f00f-> absolutely!
Apr 09 00:15:52 <acsia> ROW?
Apr 09 00:16:00 <f00f-> Rest Of the World
Apr 09 00:16:04 <acsia> ha
Apr 09 00:52:11 <chomchom> You still there acsia?
Apr 09 00:52:51 <chomchom> Feel that coffee power running through your veins?
Apr 09 00:52:53 <acsia> yep
Apr 09 00:53:12 <acsia> nearly there
Apr 09 00:53:55 <chomchom> you can manage another hour.
Apr 09 00:55:12 <acsia> I will give it a try but something break in my app and I am a bit scared
Apr 09 00:57:04 <chomchom> yeah I've had that twice tonight
Apr 09 00:57:47 <chomchom> Theres always a few moments of, dread. Thinking that you'll never find out the problem. And then there it is.
Apr 09 01:03:40 <f00f-> ya
Apr 09 01:20:08 <jasta> chomchom: you lack self-confidence :)
Apr 09 01:33:02 <chomchom> My confidence is through the roof my friend, failure fears me. Or at least it's sick of seeing me. :)
Apr 09 01:33:16 <jasta> whatever you say.
Apr 09 01:33:43 <chomchom> How the app coming along jasta?
Apr 09 01:34:09 <jasta> great, actually.  i figured out a good work-around for the streaming bug in M5, so now playback actually works as the user would expect
Apr 09 01:34:21 <chomchom> sweet
Apr 09 01:34:22 <jasta> though it stutters when it restarts the mediaplayer
Apr 09 01:35:08 <jasta> i'm still toying with a UI idea though.  i'm thinking about making it so that when you click a song to play, and a playlist is already playing, the song will default be enqueued but a little slider will animate in indicating that the song was queued
Apr 09 01:35:20 <jasta> then tuck away.  if you press the row again, it will slide out, offering more options
Apr 09 01:35:39 <jasta> like to play immediately, enqueue next (instead of last), remove from queue, etc.
Apr 09 01:35:46 <jasta> just a little tray of icons basically
Apr 09 01:36:14 <jasta> all of these options would also be available if you long click the row.  but i feel like this little icon tray might be more pleasing to use.
Apr 09 01:36:27 <chomchom> Well although I can't speak specifically about your app, I reckon the average user will expect immediate return from an action
Apr 09 01:36:35 <chomchom> rather than having it deffered
Apr 09 01:36:48 <jasta> right, which is why i'm using the slider bar.
Apr 09 01:37:10 <jasta> when you click a song that gets enqueued, a bar will animate in basically saying "enqueued".  pressing it again will offer more options to play now, etc.
Apr 09 01:37:12 <chomchom> theres a "long touch" right?
Apr 09 01:37:40 <jasta> the iPod works with instant gratification; that is, you click, you play.  the problem with this approach is obvious though.  if the user is listening to music already, odds are they are wanting to play the selected song NEXT, not *now*.
Apr 09 01:37:47 <chomchom> coudl you not make it when the user puts a long touch on it you get options or you could push a ghosted image into the playlist?
Apr 09 01:38:23 <jasta> chomchom: i'm planning to make the long click offer all the same options that the little bar offers.  play now, eqneue next or last, stop, remove, etc.
Apr 09 01:38:28 <jasta> what do you mean by ghosted image?
Apr 09 01:38:48 <jasta> keep in mind, i'm willing to bend here.  i'm struggling to think of an interface that will both work well and not be confusing.
Apr 09 01:39:02 <jasta> this approach was just my first idea that seemed to satisfy.
Apr 09 01:39:04 <chomchom> well for feedbacks sake when you pick up an icon on ui's usually it offers a trasparency of the thing you picked up
Apr 09 01:39:19 <chomchom> that moves with your cursor
Apr 09 01:39:25 <chomchom> or your finger in this case
Apr 09 01:39:32 <jasta> i think you're imagining my app looks different than it does ;)
Apr 09 01:39:42 <jasta> the user doesn't pick up and drag songs, at least not from this screen.
Apr 09 01:39:46 <chomchom> yeah probably
Apr 09 01:40:12 <jasta> if i get this one feature working right, i will be ready to record my demo video :)
Apr 09 01:40:53 <chomchom> Yay! well stop talking.. and go do
Apr 09 01:41:20 <jasta> i was recording it last night when i had this idea actually, and decided to sop for the chance to implement it :)
Apr 09 01:41:25 <jasta> stop*
Apr 09 01:41:39 <jasta> before i just had a little bubble appear with a number in it indicating the queued position.
Apr 09 01:41:48 <jasta> that interface was very bad.
Apr 09 01:56:07 <michaelnovakjr> aaaaahhhhhh
Apr 09 01:56:23 <michaelnovakjr> i am getting a nullpointer exception as my app starts up now
Apr 09 01:58:37 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr: is there more detail than that?
Apr 09 01:59:00 <michaelnovakjr> nothing much than that
Apr 09 01:59:20 <michaelnovakjr> i was throwing in some log calls and the onActivityResult never gets called
Apr 09 01:59:38 <michaelnovakjr> the only thing going on in the onCreate is the setting of the content view
Apr 09 02:03:11 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: adb logcat?
Apr 09 02:03:26 <jasta> whenever exceptions make it up to the UI, the call stack is printed.  its useful.
Apr 09 02:05:36 <michaelnovakjr> http://pastebin.com/m31fd6595
Apr 09 02:05:41 <michaelnovakjr> that is my logcat
Apr 09 02:06:54 <jasta> is your ListView empty, but specifying wrap_content for width or height?
Apr 09 02:07:29 <michaelnovakjr> if the ListView is empty i have it set to display a label saying Nothing Here!
Apr 09 02:08:52 <morrildl> er
Apr 09 02:08:55 <morrildl> neat
Apr 09 02:09:01 <michaelnovakjr> neat?
Apr 09 02:09:15 <morrildl> ListView.java:951 is a blank line
Apr 09 02:09:21 <michaelnovakjr> oh fun :)
Apr 09 02:09:22 <morrildl> M3 or M5?
Apr 09 02:09:24 <michaelnovakjr> m5
Apr 09 02:09:33 <jasta> rc14/15?
Apr 09 02:10:04 <morrildl> assuming it "meant" line 950, then it's a null Adapter
Apr 09 02:14:23 <michaelnovakjr> ListAdapter maybe?
Apr 09 02:14:27 <morrildl> If you can get the debugger to do a breakpoint at ListView.setAdapter(ListAdapter), step into it and see if you are calling setAdapter() with null
Apr 09 02:14:32 <morrildl> yes exactly
Apr 09 02:14:42 <michaelnovakjr> ok
Apr 09 02:15:02 <morrildl> setAdapter(null) is getting called, and then ListView is blowing up in onMeasure
Apr 09 02:17:30 <morrildl> that's the only location in the class where it gets set
Apr 09 02:17:37 <morrildl> (in setAdapter())
Apr 09 02:19:09 <morrildl> FWIW, that crash is fixed in current source
Apr 09 02:19:30 <michaelnovakjr> mAdapter is null in the debugger
Apr 09 02:19:41 <morrildl> that's the field
Apr 09 02:20:31 <michaelnovakjr> how come its setting null?
Apr 09 02:20:55 <morrildl> somebody somewhere is calling setAdapter(null)
Apr 09 02:21:07 <morrildl> ...or possibly never calling setAdapter at all
Apr 09 02:21:38 <morrildl> setAdapter() appears to be the only codepath that can set mAdapter
Apr 09 02:21:38 <michaelnovakjr> i set the list adapter in the result method
Apr 09 02:23:35 <jasta> sigh, why does RelativeLayout always screw everything up :)
Apr 09 02:23:48 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 09 02:24:08 <michaelnovakjr> i moved the code up and I still get the null exception..... except this time the list populates :)
Apr 09 02:24:15 <michaelnovakjr> i am going to run the debugger again
Apr 09 02:24:39 <jasta> morrildl: got a second to help me with a couple of ui problems?
Apr 09 02:26:59 <michaelnovakjr> wtf it works now
Apr 09 02:27:27 <morrildl> jasta: sure
Apr 09 02:27:53 <f00f-> do we know if the judges will be using the mouse or joystick to move around the screen?
Apr 09 02:28:01 <jasta> morrildl: if i had a layout roughly like:
Apr 09 02:28:24 <morrildl> f00f-: they'll be using emulators, so: mouse
Apr 09 02:28:38 <f00f-> morrildl: ok, just that there are still the diretional buttons :)
Apr 09 02:28:45 <f00f-> but mouse is good news indeed
Apr 09 02:28:55 <jasta> <RelativeLayout width=fill height=wrap> <LinearLayout width=fill height=wrap> ...lots... </LinearLayout> <TextView width=wrap height=fill background=something /> </RelativeLayout
Apr 09 02:29:15 <f00f-> but i wonder how the mouse can be used with a TimePicker :(
Apr 09 02:29:19 <jasta> why would TextView's height seem to be contrained to the height of the drawn text and not to the height of the LinearLayout?
Apr 09 02:30:12 <jasta> what i expected height=fill in the TextView to do would be to use the height of the LinearLayout, measured at run time, which is guaranteed to be greater than the textview by itself
Apr 09 02:30:26 <jasta> rather, than the textviews natural height, as i would get with height=wrap
Apr 09 02:30:46 <jasta> morrildl: thoughts?
Apr 09 02:32:31 <jasta> if it makes any difference, TextView has layout_alignParentRight="true".  The effect is that I want a sticky label to draw on the right hand side, over whatever is underneath as specified by the LinearLayout
Apr 09 02:34:38 <romainguy__> jasta: use alignParentTop and alignParentBottom = true
Apr 09 02:34:55 <jasta> oh, thanks :)
Apr 09 02:36:05 <jasta> well, now that you're here...my second question was how to create a shape drawable in code and set it to the background of anotehr view.  specifically, how to set the solid fill color.
Apr 09 02:36:21 <jasta> i tried ShapeDrawable.setColor, but it seems to have had no effect.
Apr 09 02:36:37 <romainguy__> just set the paint
Apr 09 02:37:03 <jasta> of the view itself?
Apr 09 02:37:10 <romainguy__> no
Apr 09 02:37:13 <romainguy__> on the shapedrawable
Apr 09 02:37:41 <jasta> i don't see a way to do that
Apr 09 02:38:00 <romainguy__> shapeDrawable.getPaint().setColor(...)
Apr 09 02:38:06 <jasta> ahh, ok
Apr 09 02:38:21 <jasta> wait, there is no getPaint
Apr 09 02:38:27 <morrildl> yeah that was totally a romainguy question :)
Apr 09 02:38:36 <romainguy__> well there is in my version :)
Apr 09 02:38:42 <romainguy__> in M5 ShapeDrawable was barely started
Apr 09 02:38:43 <jasta> hehe
Apr 09 02:38:53 <romainguy__> don't use a ShapeDrawable then
Apr 09 02:39:03 <jasta> setColor does work anyway, i was just being dense.
Apr 09 02:39:32 <romainguy__> you could also use PaintDrawable
Apr 09 02:40:01 <jasta> alignParentTop and Bottom seem to not have affected my other issue.
Apr 09 02:47:23 <jasta> romainguy__: something is unusual about this.  using simply alignParentBottom=true doesn't do what i'd expect.
Apr 09 02:47:30 <jasta> it just placed it in the top left, as though i specified no alignment
Apr 09 02:55:05 <Kraln> this might seem like a silly question
Apr 09 02:55:12 <Kraln> but how does one 'deploy' an android application?
Apr 09 02:56:50 <jasta> currently, you distribute an apk file, to be installed with adb install.
Apr 09 02:57:29 <jasta> There is no end-user distribution mechanism currently defined by the Android platform.  Expect that to change, but don't expect Google to reveal precisely how.
Apr 09 02:58:45 <Kraln> and the apk is generated in the build process? or
Apr 09 02:59:04 <jasta> yes, the apk is the final product of all the android build tools.
Apr 09 02:59:19 <jasta> of the collection of them, i mean
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 09 02:59:57 2008