**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 16 02:59:56 2008
Apr 16 03:03:52 <rektide> get more ram
Apr 16 03:03:54 <rektide> you need more ram
Apr 16 03:05:40 <Kraln> eclipse + the emulator takes more than a gig of ram on my machine
Apr 16 03:05:48 <michaelnovakjr__> damn
Apr 16 03:05:52 <Kraln> if it ever starts swapping, the whole system crawls
Apr 16 03:05:58 <poffy> It eats a lot..
Apr 16 03:06:20 <rektide> increasing the memory for eclipse is recommended
Apr 16 03:06:26 <Stephmw> ... was about to say that's way too much ram, but then saw I'm in #android and not #j2me ;)
Apr 16 03:06:57 <rektide> otherwise it starts with 256mb maximum space or something and swaps incessantly
Apr 16 03:07:19 <rektide> thats always been one of my least favorite things about java, having to specify max program size
Apr 16 03:07:21 <AstainHellbring> you need more ram
Apr 16 03:07:26 <AstainHellbring> 4gb of ram ftw
Apr 16 03:07:51 <michaelnovakjr__> i have 4 gigs in my machine
Apr 16 03:07:52 <rektide> yeah i'm only at 2GB.  :(  so sad that i /need/ more now a days.
Apr 16 03:08:06 <Kraln> I have 4gb too =)
Apr 16 03:08:29 <michaelnovakjr__> memory is cheap....you can get 2 gigs for $99
Apr 16 03:09:01 <rektide> i'm worried populating all four slots would slow down my ram access
Apr 16 03:09:12 * Stephmw scratches his head
Apr 16 03:09:27 <Stephmw> how so?
Apr 16 03:09:39 <michaelnovakjr__> ?
Apr 16 03:09:56 <rektide> it demands considerably more design work on the part of your motherboard to do properly
Apr 16 03:10:21 <rektide> some motherboards just refuse to do dual channel interleavaing altogether if all four are populated
Apr 16 03:10:32 <AstainHellbring> I got 4gb for my laptop for 88
Apr 16 03:10:58 <AstainHellbring> some mb's do dual channel on all 4
Apr 16 03:11:00 <rektide> pulling ram off dead hookers again?  did you get your blood test back yet?
Apr 16 03:11:10 <rektide> most should, to be fair
Apr 16 03:11:11 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 16 03:11:44 <AstainHellbring> make sure you are on the most up to date bios for your mother board too
Apr 16 03:11:48 <AstainHellbring> newegg.com ftw
Apr 16 04:10:55 <leiv> hi,i start a activity,but this activity stop quickly,just flash and quit,why?
Apr 16 04:11:09 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean?
Apr 16 04:11:15 <michaelnovakjr> what is the activity doing?
Apr 16 04:11:44 <leiv> show some detail
Apr 16 04:12:08 <michaelnovakjr> does it extend Activity?
Apr 16 04:12:12 <leiv> yes
Apr 16 04:12:45 <michaelnovakjr> pastebin your exception from the log file
Apr 16 04:14:04 <leiv> sorry, what your mean?
Apr 16 04:14:22 <michaelnovakjr> is this your first project?
Apr 16 04:14:52 <leiv> yes
Apr 16 04:15:01 <michaelnovakjr> are you using eclipse?
Apr 16 04:15:06 <leiv> yes
Apr 16 04:15:31 <michaelnovakjr> run adb logcat and copy the results to pastebin.org and post the link here
Apr 16 04:15:42 <michaelnovakjr> you run adb logcat from the command line
Apr 16 04:16:32 <leiv> ok
Apr 16 04:19:41 <leiv> http://pastebin.org/30096
Apr 16 04:19:49 <leiv> thank you :)
Apr 16 04:20:25 <michaelnovakjr> you cut off the actual exception.... you have to scroll up in the log
Apr 16 04:23:42 <leiv> http://pastebin.org/30098 like this ? i'm sorry
Apr 16 04:24:58 <michaelnovakjr> what is it you are trying to do?
Apr 16 04:26:01 <leiv> i click a music in a list,and start a activity to show the detail of the song
Apr 16 04:26:38 <michaelnovakjr> can you paste your code?
Apr 16 04:26:57 <michaelnovakjr> if not try running your debugger in eclipse
Apr 16 04:27:03 <michaelnovakjr> that should point out the problem
Apr 16 04:30:03 <leiv> http://pastebin.org/30100
Apr 16 04:30:24 <leiv> the code
Apr 16 04:31:14 <michaelnovakjr> you aren't calling any other activity here?
Apr 16 04:31:39 <leiv> this is the cativity being called
Apr 16 04:32:01 <michaelnovakjr> where's the calling activity?
Apr 16 04:32:11 <michaelnovakjr> do you actually get to this page?
Apr 16 04:32:23 <leiv> yes
Apr 16 04:32:54 <leiv> i show the page ,but it just flash and back to the previous activity
Apr 16 04:33:45 <michaelnovakjr> comment out your onClick code and give it a run
Apr 16 04:36:13 <leiv> it's the same
Apr 16 04:40:51 <leiv> michaelnovakjr: if this has something to do with the calling activity,or it's totally the problem of the activity being called?
Apr 16 04:41:37 <michaelnovakjr> its trying to play music too i assume
Apr 16 05:23:11 <poffy> Any ideas when judges will start looking at apps?
Apr 16 05:43:03 <jjt009> quick question
Apr 16 05:43:15 <jjt009> directed to romain_guy or morrildl
Apr 16 05:43:28 <jjt009> at what times will the judging occur?
Apr 16 05:44:00 <jjt009> i was hoping to be able to turn off the machine i'm using as a server at night (i live in the pst time zone area)
Apr 16 05:44:11 <jjt009> will the judges be located only in mountain view
Apr 16 05:44:21 <jjt009> or will they be in all parts of the world?
Apr 16 05:44:31 <AstainHellbring> most likely all parts of world
Apr 16 05:45:22 <jjt009> ok, so then i have to keep my machine on at all times
Apr 16 05:45:28 <jjt009> nooo
Apr 16 05:45:32 <jjt009> so much power wasted
Apr 16 05:46:01 <jjt009> Astain: so what's the best app you've seen so far?
Apr 16 05:47:21 <AstainHellbring> not looked a lot yet where are they at again?
Apr 16 05:47:36 <jjt009> Astain: helloandroid.com
Apr 16 05:49:53 <AstainHellbring> oh yah thanks
Apr 16 05:50:57 <AstainHellbring> xlive looks impressive
Apr 16 05:59:47 <romainguy> hey
Apr 16 05:59:51 <romainguy> xlive uses one of my photos ^^
Apr 16 06:02:59 <duey> lol
Apr 16 06:03:19 <duey> can the emulator do http over proxy
Apr 16 06:04:59 <duey> lol someone added my app to the db
Apr 16 06:05:08 <duey> mysterious
Apr 16 06:17:29 <Kraln> I seeded my chat network with fake users so it isn't empty when the judges connect
Apr 16 06:19:47 <duey> lol
Apr 16 06:19:55 <duey> you should get them hooked up to aiml
Apr 16 06:20:06 <Kraln> its not an instant messanger network
Apr 16 06:20:50 <duey> ?
Apr 16 06:21:00 <duey> aiml = http://www.alicebot.org/
Apr 16 06:21:50 <Kraln> oh, okay
Apr 16 07:01:10 <jasta> ok.  when i said i was gonna take a week break from my project, i really meant i'll wait until Wed night ;)
Apr 16 07:01:39 <muthu> jasta: why wait?
Apr 16 07:02:00 <duey> lol
Apr 16 07:02:02 <jasta> i was just going to wait out of sheer exhaustion ;)
Apr 16 07:02:18 <duey> you need to be banned from this channel for a week
Apr 16 07:02:22 <jasta> i'm gonna try to pack it up in such a way that could be distributed to people to play with right now.
Apr 16 07:02:35 <jasta> right now, it's kind of in demo mode for the judges
Apr 16 07:02:55 <jasta> i'd like to fix a few things, smooth out a few rough spots, and add a couple of extra niceties in the server and then release
Apr 16 07:03:14 <muthu> jasta: looks like a huge demand for five
Apr 16 07:03:22 <jasta> yes, it does :)
Apr 16 07:03:30 <jasta> i'm encouraged :)
Apr 16 07:03:39 <muthu> grea
Apr 16 07:03:40 <muthu> great
Apr 16 07:04:05 <jasta> there is much work to be done, however.  from now until commercial launch is going to be busy indeed.
Apr 16 07:04:13 <muthu> cool
Apr 16 07:04:15 <muthu> keep at it
Apr 16 07:04:50 <Kraln> jasta, you going to need servers for your commercial release?
Apr 16 07:05:16 <jasta> Kraln: Not hosted ones, no.  The user will install the software onto their PC.
Apr 16 07:05:27 <Kraln> ah, k
Apr 16 07:05:34 <duey> jasta, you could run private servers for $$$
Apr 16 07:06:05 <duey> subscription based pricing
Apr 16 07:06:10 <jasta> I don't intend to.
Apr 16 07:06:27 <jasta> By commercial launch, I meant _of Android_.
Apr 16 07:06:29 <jasta> Not of my system.
Apr 16 07:06:52 <duey> ya
Apr 16 07:06:54 <duey> obv
Apr 16 07:07:01 <muthu> if we are talking about common servers, then its trouble
Apr 16 07:07:07 <muthu> copyrights etc.,
Apr 16 07:07:15 <jasta> Which is why I don't want to go there.
Apr 16 07:07:29 <duey> yeah but you could host private content
Apr 16 07:07:34 <duey> restrict to a single phone
Apr 16 07:07:35 <duey> etc
Apr 16 07:07:58 <jasta> it still is dangerous territory
Apr 16 07:08:16 <duey> yeah probably
Apr 16 07:08:22 <duey> but no more danagerous than webhosting
Apr 16 07:08:35 <jasta> anyway, it's not how i intend the system to work.  using a centralized design would be very difficult to do.  first of all, the storage and bandwidth requirements would be huge.
Apr 16 07:08:46 <duey> yeah thats why people pay!
Apr 16 07:09:00 <jasta> but why would they want to pay for something like that when they can just put it on their home PC?
Apr 16 07:09:16 <duey> let them put it on there home pc
Apr 16 07:09:29 <muthu> accessing "your" music, anywhere - that's useful by itself
Apr 16 07:09:41 <duey> why would you pay for web hosting when you could host it on your home pc?
Apr 16 07:10:20 <muthu> jasta: the music gets downloaded and cached, right?
Apr 16 07:10:21 <jasta> duey: Because your resources don't scale with the demand for your content.
Apr 16 07:10:31 <duey> yeah good point
Apr 16 07:10:33 <jasta> duey: This model is much different, since you are the only source of demand.
Apr 16 07:10:49 <jasta> So how could there conceivably be a mounting demand?
Apr 16 07:11:50 <jasta> anyway, i'm gonna go tackle the feature i've wanted to get to for the past 2 weeks but never did
Apr 16 07:11:54 <jasta> ...WbXML support :)
Apr 16 07:12:05 <jasta> this should be an enormous improvement in performance of the sync engine
Apr 16 07:46:58 <c4software> Hi, wow its works first early boot on wizard.
Apr 16 07:47:36 <c4software> Android boot up on wizard, with an smallest image. (Demo app removed)
Apr 16 07:48:43 <c4software> acctually, i got black screen after, the first screen (ANDROID _ )
Apr 16 07:48:49 <swetland> nifty
Apr 16 07:49:03 <c4software> i take a video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_AmG8fCR4
Apr 16 07:50:27 <swetland> I think the panel driver is running in horiz flip mode?
Apr 16 07:50:55 <c4software> no no, its just more easy to take the video
Apr 16 07:51:43 <c4software> After this, my screen gone black, and Wizard seems to be freeze
Apr 16 09:18:31 <acsia> morning!
Apr 16 09:19:49 <jasta> mornin
Apr 16 09:22:25 <acsia> I saw your app, nice UI
Apr 16 09:22:30 <jasta> thanks
Apr 16 09:22:39 <acsia> no dlls yet?
Apr 16 09:22:43 <jasta> dlls?
Apr 16 09:22:52 <acsia> downloads
Apr 16 09:23:03 <jasta> no, i'm actually working on that this week
Apr 16 09:23:08 <acsia> same here
Apr 16 09:23:15 <acsia> I am working on a video/we page
Apr 16 09:23:15 <jasta> the version i submitted to the judges is in a very particular mode.
Apr 16 09:23:16 <acsia> web
Apr 16 09:23:28 <jasta> it wouldn't be suitable for publishing to the general public
Apr 16 09:23:35 <acsia> I understand
Apr 16 09:23:43 <jasta> so i'm working on tucking away certain awkward features, specifically in the server.
Apr 16 09:23:54 <jasta> and implemented some things more efficiently.
Apr 16 09:23:58 <acsia> I am looking forward to it
Apr 16 09:24:03 <jasta> i avoided certain optimizations that i knew would be unstable for the ADC submission
Apr 16 09:24:07 <jasta> now i'm tackling them :)
Apr 16 09:24:46 <acsia> I am doing the same, I had to "basterize" my code a bit before submitting to ADC.. I was still working on it until the last minute
Apr 16 09:24:49 <jasta> i'm working right now on transitioning my SyncML client library to using WbXML exclusively.
Apr 16 09:24:54 <acsia> which meant 6 in the morning here
Apr 16 09:25:14 <jasta> me too.  i was writing code up until about 5pm the day of the submission.  submitted at 10pm that night after testing.
Apr 16 09:26:13 <jasta> anyway, i am eager to publish this in a form that can be generally consumed.
Apr 16 09:26:19 <jasta> i think people will really enjoy my app
Apr 16 09:26:20 <acsia> I thought I would stay away from android for a couple of days... how wrong was I...
Apr 16 09:26:34 <jasta> acsia: Yeah, I had the same idea.  Thought I'd take the next week off...
Apr 16 09:26:42 <jasta> but nope, second day and here i am ripping apart my app already
Apr 16 09:26:53 <acsia> we meet again indeed
Apr 16 09:27:31 <acsia> I am on vacation next week so.. apart if i take my computer to sweden with me, I should manage to stay away for android
Apr 16 09:27:33 <jasta> anyway, stay tuned for a demonstration video of my app and a released version :)
Apr 16 09:27:46 <acsia> I surely will :0
Apr 16 09:27:47 <acsia> :)
Apr 16 09:27:52 <jasta> realistically, the video will come some this week, and the release the next week
Apr 16 09:27:59 <jasta> some time*
Apr 16 09:28:17 <jasta> are you going to Google I/O?
Apr 16 09:28:24 <acsia> no, I can't really
Apr 16 09:28:27 <acsia> how about you?
Apr 16 09:28:40 <jasta> yeah, i have some friends in San Francisco I'd like to see, so it's kind of a vacation for me
Apr 16 09:29:03 <jasta> I'm anxious to go, especially if I can introduce myself as one of the ADC winners ;)
Apr 16 09:29:15 <acsia> nice, Iwould like to go but a bit expensif and it is not related to my 'real' job so...
Apr 16 09:29:16 <acsia> :)
Apr 16 09:29:30 <jasta> yeah, i'm taking vacation from my job.  really, that's what it is for me.
Apr 16 09:29:34 <jasta> i'll be drunk both nights i'm there hehe
Apr 16 09:29:38 <acsia> hehe
Apr 16 09:29:56 <jasta> i have friends that work for Loopt, one of which used to be my roommate.  so i'm gonna party with them.
Apr 16 09:30:10 <acsia> especially if you win, a probably if you wont  as well... that will be my case at least
Apr 16 09:30:13 <acsia> Loopt?
Apr 16 09:30:41 <acsia> I c
Apr 16 09:30:43 <jasta> google it :)
Apr 16 09:30:52 <davidw> it's a YC company
Apr 16 09:32:06 <raidfive> I'll be in SF for Google I/O ... most likely drunk as well :)
Apr 16 09:32:20 <jasta> pretty cool company actually.  they were gracious enough to rent a cabin at Lake Tahoe this winter, which I partook :)
Apr 16 09:32:54 <jasta> raidfive: cool, maybe i'll see you there.
Apr 16 09:33:11 <ClassFoo> the java.lang.Package.getPackages() failed in android, is there any other method that can get a list of the package that in the ClassLoader?
Apr 16 09:33:14 <acsia> chomchom: you there?
Apr 16 09:33:27 <raidfive> yea that is a possibility ... do you think they will have the ADC winners list by then? or announce it there?
Apr 16 09:33:42 <jasta> raidfive: yeah, they said in the judging doc that it should be on or near may 5th
Apr 16 09:33:45 <jasta> and the conf is at the end of may
Apr 16 09:33:49 <jasta> so i'd expect the list to be known
Apr 16 09:34:06 <raidfive> awesome
Apr 16 09:38:01 <raidfive> jasta, where are you staying for Google I/O? at your buddies?
Apr 16 09:38:39 <jasta> i'm gonna get a 2 bedroom hotel nearby and probably just share it with my friends.
Apr 16 09:38:53 <jasta> we'll be drunk enough that someone won't mind sleeping on the floor i'm sure :)
Apr 16 09:39:02 <jasta> they're taking the time off work too, and staying in SF.
Apr 16 09:39:06 <raidfive> haha
Apr 16 09:39:51 <jasta> like i said, the conference is kind of a footnote on this trip :)
Apr 16 09:40:11 <raidfive> ever been to SF before?
Apr 16 09:40:19 <jasta> yeah, a few times actually
Apr 16 09:40:27 <muthu> sounds like fun
Apr 16 09:40:44 <raidfive> awesome, it will be my first time in SF
Apr 16 09:40:53 <jasta> it's a fun city
Apr 16 09:41:14 <raidfive> you live in Seattle right?
Apr 16 09:41:16 <davidw> I lived there for a year
Apr 16 09:41:20 <jasta> yeah, which is a better city :)
Apr 16 09:41:24 <davidw> it's ok while you're young or visiting
Apr 16 09:41:32 <raidfive> haha I dunno about that jasta
Apr 16 09:41:36 <raidfive> rain rain and more rain
Apr 16 09:41:44 <muthu> only jasta loves seattle
Apr 16 09:41:45 <jasta> i wouldn't wish _living_ in SF on even my worst enemy :)
Apr 16 09:41:48 <davidw> raidfive, it's worse than that: it's gray all the time
Apr 16 09:41:55 <jasta> those are all myths
Apr 16 09:42:01 <jasta> Seattle has beautiful weather in the summer.
Apr 16 09:42:09 <raidfive> yea for about 2 months :)
Apr 16 09:42:11 <jasta> And Washington in general is gorgeous.
Apr 16 09:42:13 <davidw> that's true, summer is a really nice week there
Apr 16 09:42:15 <raidfive> I live 3 hours from Seattle :)
Apr 16 09:42:33 <muthu> heard florida is the best city
Apr 16 09:42:43 <jasta> if you like old people
Apr 16 09:42:43 <muthu> i mean miami
Apr 16 09:42:45 <davidw> florida's a state
Apr 16 09:42:55 <muthu> davidw: i know you are coming at me
Apr 16 09:42:57 <raidfive> I'll give oyu that one ... Washington is gorgeous
Apr 16 09:43:18 <davidw> too flat for me - my butt, sat in my chair here in Innsbruck, is higher than the entire state of florida
Apr 16 09:43:32 <jasta> the pacific northwest is a very balanced region.  there's lots to do, and all seasons are enjoyable.
Apr 16 09:43:48 <davidw> unless you can't stand the endless gray
Apr 16 09:43:49 <raidfive> jasta, do you ski or snowboard?
Apr 16 09:43:50 <muthu> which city is the best?
Apr 16 09:43:51 <jasta> we have calm winters in the lowland areas, but lots of good skiing nearby.
Apr 16 09:44:03 <jasta> beautiful fall seasons
Apr 16 09:44:15 <jasta> and the summer is great, with perfect temperatures that are never too hot
Apr 16 09:44:21 <jasta> plenty of camping/hiking
Apr 16 09:44:26 <jasta> i love this area :)
Apr 16 09:44:32 <raidfive> I can tell :)
Apr 16 09:44:32 <jasta> raidfive: yeah, i'm an aggressive boarder.
Apr 16 09:44:49 <raidfive> nice! I just picked it up again this year ... I have a season pass at Mt Hood Meadows
Apr 16 09:45:17 <davidw> raidfive, you live near the gorge?
Apr 16 09:45:20 <jasta> raidfive: this season i went up probably 20 times, went to Whistler for 2 days, Tahoe for 3.
Apr 16 09:45:39 <raidfive> nice, I've always wanted to go to those resorts
Apr 16 09:45:45 <jasta> Steven's is my favorite mountain near to Seattle.
Apr 16 09:45:48 <raidfive> davidw, I live near Portland
Apr 16 09:45:49 <davidw> jasta sounds like a tourist brochure
Apr 16 09:46:01 <davidw> raidfive, oh right, you were the one advertising the lucky lab thing
Apr 16 09:46:18 <raidfive> actually I didn't post it ... just was seeing who was going
Apr 16 09:46:18 <jasta> Portland is the suckiest place on Earth :)
Apr 16 09:46:30 <jasta> of course not really, but i hate it
Apr 16 09:46:43 <jasta> Portland is Seattle without the grit.  And I hate that.
Apr 16 09:46:47 <raidfive> I think a lot of people from Seattle hate Portland :)
Apr 16 09:47:08 <raidfive> I'm not biased towards either ... both are great in my opinion
Apr 16 09:47:21 <jasta> it amazes me that portland hasn't passed the no smoking law.
Apr 16 09:47:33 <jasta> they claim to be more progressive and greener than Seattle, and yet...
Apr 16 09:47:50 <muthu> no smoking?
Apr 16 09:48:04 <jasta> muthu: in Washington, smoking is prohibited in all public venues.
Apr 16 09:48:04 <muthu> you mean public places, right
Apr 16 09:48:11 <raidfive> aren't those lawed based on the state, not city?!
Apr 16 09:48:18 <davidw> wow I didn't realize that
Apr 16 09:48:24 <jasta> raidfive: Yes, but it's obvious where the push comes from.
Apr 16 09:48:25 <davidw> I f*&*&*& hate smoking indoors
Apr 16 09:48:40 <jasta> davidw: Then come to Washington :)
Apr 16 09:48:47 <davidw> I think Austria is the last country in europe to prohibit it
Apr 16 09:48:59 <davidw> jasta, too rainy and cold for me
Apr 16 09:49:08 <davidw> portland was too rainy and cold for that matter
Apr 16 09:49:15 <jasta> Actually, it's not very cold here.
Apr 16 09:49:16 <muthu> smoking ban in public places must be welcome
Apr 16 09:49:30 <jasta> The weather is subdued.  It never gets very warm (temperature in the 80s or 90s is pretty rare even in the summer)
Apr 16 09:49:35 <jasta> But it never gets that cold either.
Apr 16 09:49:37 <davidw> jasta, my idea of "not cold" is 15C in winter, 10 if it's chilly.
Apr 16 09:49:47 <davidw> which translate to.... 60F and 50f
Apr 16 09:49:51 <jasta> It drops below freezing probably 4 or 5 days during the winter.
Apr 16 09:49:53 <raidfive> jasta, I've been meaning to ask you ... was your android application a port or did you start from scratch?
Apr 16 09:50:11 <jasta> raidfive: from scratch.  the entire system began in mid December.
Apr 16 09:50:29 <jasta> though it's an old idea of mine.  i just sat on it :)
Apr 16 09:50:31 <raidfive> were you the only dev?
Apr 16 09:50:35 <jasta> yes
Apr 16 09:50:48 <jasta> and i have a full-time job during the day.  go me. :)
Apr 16 09:50:51 <raidfive> you sure pushed out a shitload of code :)
Apr 16 09:51:00 <jasta> raidfive: Yup.
Apr 16 09:51:12 <muthu> on top of a real job is amazing
Apr 16 09:51:26 <muthu> jasta; you are a coding machine
Apr 16 09:51:35 <jasta> raidfive: Don't be fooled though, there's still a *LOT* more work to be done.
Apr 16 09:51:42 <raidfive> there always is
Apr 16 09:51:48 <jasta> The server, for example, has a long way to go in order to nestle in comfortably for most users.
Apr 16 09:52:04 <jasta> It's highly functional, but little more than that.  Obviously Windows and OS X users will require a lot of hand-holding.
Apr 16 09:52:35 <muthu> you use sqlite on the server, right?
Apr 16 09:52:36 <jasta> Ideally, I envision setting up and configuring the phone part to be part of the same software setup.  So maybe you could plug in your Android device and have it all autoconfigure itself.
Apr 16 09:52:39 <raidfive> jasta, had you developed for other mobile platforms before?
Apr 16 09:52:40 <jasta> muthu: yeah
Apr 16 09:52:59 <jasta> raidfive: Sort of.  I am familiar with Symbian and I originally attempted the project on Windows Mobile about a year and a half ago.
Apr 16 09:53:08 <jasta> But I have not gone far with either platform.
Apr 16 09:53:23 <raidfive> I've looked into Symbian a bit and heard it is a bitch
Apr 16 09:53:29 <jasta> It is.  Miserable.
Apr 16 09:53:42 <jasta> Windows Mobile is no different.  Especially when writing in C#, ironically.
Apr 16 09:54:05 <jasta> the C API is basically the Win32 API, but the C# .NET Compact Framework API is the worst thing ever.
Apr 16 09:54:27 <jasta> They have literally no widgets.  It's like a button, textview, and image and some other crappy stuff.  Everything else you do yourself.  You have to custom draw fucking everything.
Apr 16 09:54:30 <raidfive> haha ... crappier than symbian?
Apr 16 09:54:36 <jasta> Yes, I would say so.
Apr 16 09:54:39 <raidfive> damn
Apr 16 09:54:59 <jasta> Like, even implementing a simple list that matches the rest of the phone UI would be a huge pain in the ass.
Apr 16 09:55:11 <jasta> The whole platform makes you feel like you stepped back in time to 1992.
Apr 16 09:55:30 <jasta> Pathetic.  Microsoft should be embarrassed.
Apr 16 09:55:44 <muthu> not sure why those folks make it difficult to write mobile apps
Apr 16 09:55:58 <jasta> Anyway, I was so turned off by the platform and vendor lock-in (uhm, i had to use Visual Studio from VMWare) that I abandoned the Five project early on.
Apr 16 09:56:26 <jasta> When Android was announced, I knew that there would be a good fit here...
Apr 16 09:56:35 <muthu> jasta: why name it Five?
Apr 16 09:56:58 <jasta> The name came to me after thinking about how I talk up my Windows Mobile phone to regular folk.
Apr 16 09:57:10 <jasta> Explaining that it can synchronize e-mail, contacts, calendar, and tasks, the big four that you'd need.
Apr 16 09:57:24 <jasta> The name came from the notion that there should now be a fifth thing a smartphone should be good at ;0
Apr 16 09:57:38 <jasta> Kind of stupid, I know.  Whatever.
Apr 16 09:57:44 <muthu> ahh.. you have everything thought out
Apr 16 09:57:53 <muthu> man on a mission!
Apr 16 09:57:58 <convivial> hi!
Apr 16 09:59:10 <convivial> is android nice or is it just another bunch of bill gates billionaire wannabes trying to create 'windows os' market share for mobile devices?
Apr 16 09:59:27 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 09:59:33 <muthu> wannabes?
Apr 16 09:59:42 <muthu> they are already billionaires!
Apr 16 10:00:00 <raidfive> lol
Apr 16 10:00:01 <jasta> convivial: Do you suspect you will get an unbiased answer from #android?
Apr 16 10:00:15 <convivial> well, I looked at the os and i really didnt see anything to excite me... can you englighten men?
Apr 16 10:00:37 <muthu> i'm sure the goal would be to run in every phone possible
Apr 16 10:00:38 <raidfive> hmm, considering the OS isn't finished ...
Apr 16 10:01:03 <jasta> convivial: I really couldn't be bothered.  You sound like a troll to me ;)
Apr 16 10:01:14 <raidfive> me too :)
Apr 16 10:01:18 <muthu> convivial: its open, its free
Apr 16 10:01:31 <convivial> muthu true, what j2me is free as well
Apr 16 10:01:35 <convivial> so is windows mobile
Apr 16 10:01:41 <convivial> what do they mean by free?
Apr 16 10:01:54 <jasta> Windows Mobile isn't free stupid :)
Apr 16 10:01:55 <convivial> all mobile sdks are free\
Apr 16 10:02:03 <muthu> and your applications are first class citizens in a gphone
Apr 16 10:02:04 <jasta> First of all, the manufacturer pays for a license to use it.
Apr 16 10:02:06 <convivial> I downloaded windows sdk and use it all the time
Apr 16 10:02:19 <jasta> Second of all, the developer SDK requires Visual Studio which is certainly not free or cheap.
Apr 16 10:02:24 <convivial> free from a developer perspective
Apr 16 10:02:36 <muthu> windows mobile requires windows
Apr 16 10:02:46 <muthu> iphone requires apple
Apr 16 10:02:49 <convivial> my vs was free, i attended ms seminar, which was also free
Apr 16 10:02:55 <muthu> android runs on whatever i have
Apr 16 10:03:13 <muthu> so i like android - that's the simplest explanation that i gave myself
Apr 16 10:04:07 <convivial> android will not run on everything
Apr 16 10:04:27 <convivial> android requires that the appliance has the android mda built in
Apr 16 10:04:54 <jasta> he meant for the dev SDK, and he meant linux, windows, and os x, not "everything" :)
Apr 16 10:05:09 <muthu> yeah from a developers perspective
Apr 16 10:05:17 <muthu> there's a whole other issues on the OEM's
Apr 16 10:05:25 <muthu> and the providers
Apr 16 10:05:49 <jasta> convivial: Regardless, if Android doesn't excite you, then by all means ignore it.
Apr 16 10:06:04 <muthu> convivial: what you are interested at?
Apr 16 10:06:14 <muthu> and why you don't like android?
Apr 16 10:06:54 <muthu> i love kopete btw, i type con: and it autocompletes correctly :)
Apr 16 10:07:30 <muthu> i saw an application, very close to my mobeegal thingy
Apr 16 10:07:52 <muthu> which is good, because people seem to have the same ideas
Apr 16 10:08:36 <muthu> convivial: i would not be interested in android, if its not running in linux
Apr 16 10:10:10 <convivial> muthu, I love technology... and employment :)
Apr 16 10:10:34 <convivial> can you explain to me the potential for this with android?
Apr 16 10:10:46 <jasta> Can't you go find that out for yourself?
Apr 16 10:11:09 <jasta> This is, afterall, a subjective topic.  How can you presume that we will tell you something that is meaningful to you?
Apr 16 10:11:26 <muthu> convivial: what you are looking for exactly?
Apr 16 10:12:53 <convivial> muthu: I just want to be part of a revolution but only if it's going to lead to somewhere... offering $10,000,000 in bribe money to get programmers waste time/money/effort writing software for hardware that does not exist scared me away :(
Apr 16 10:13:14 <muthu> the real hardware is coming soon
Apr 16 10:13:30 <muthu> no need to be scared, since its from google & co and they have a pretty credible history
Apr 16 10:13:50 <jasta> muthu: it would be unwise to assume success just based on google's notoriety.
Apr 16 10:14:08 <muthu> not success, but the possibility of a real device
Apr 16 10:14:26 <jasta> instead, i assume success based on the collaborative investment of the industry itself, realizing that change is necessary and inevitable in the underlying business models driving the mobile industry.
Apr 16 10:14:26 <muthu> which is what convivial seems to be afraid of
Apr 16 10:14:35 <convivial> well, also i'm not very impressed with googles other technologies... for instance, google maps does work however, i have never had a problem with ms mappoint technology
Apr 16 10:15:08 <jasta> convivial: Again, if Android does not excite you, then you may happily ignore it.
Apr 16 10:15:14 <jasta> No one is going to cram it down your throat.
Apr 16 10:15:20 <muthu> convivial: google is not replacing anyone
Apr 16 10:15:27 <convivial> can anyone here site a truely revolutionary and successful google technology to date?
Apr 16 10:15:38 <convivial> muthu: i am just investigating that's all.
Apr 16 10:15:44 <jasta> convivial: If you're here to troll, then I would ask that you please leave.
Apr 16 10:15:48 <convivial> just a bit sceptical
Apr 16 10:16:00 <jasta> Then be so, but be quiet.
Apr 16 10:16:18 <muthu> jasta: lets get another pov
Apr 16 10:16:40 <muthu> convivial: you don't like google search
Apr 16 10:16:43 <muthu> >
Apr 16 10:16:44 <jasta> If you had approached this topic requesting a meaningful dialog you would have gotten one.  You didn't, and you won't.
Apr 16 10:16:46 <convivial> jasta: no, i am here to look for evidence of google's abilities to create something that actually works... I have yet to fined anything except nice novelty stuff
Apr 16 10:16:59 <convivial> well, ok then.
Apr 16 10:17:07 <convivial> I guess no help here. then
Apr 16 10:17:29 <jasta> muthu: Let's not.  There's no value here :)
Apr 16 10:18:10 <muthu> convivial: android is good, don't give up on it
Apr 16 10:18:24 <jasta> muthu: He's come here to incorrectly validate his predisposition.  Nothing more :)
Apr 16 10:18:42 <muthu> jasta: may be, we'll find out
Apr 16 10:18:51 <jasta> We already did in how he approached the topic :)
Apr 16 10:19:10 <duey> <convivial> can anyone here site a truely revolutionary and successful google technology to date?
Apr 16 10:19:12 <duey> search?
Apr 16 10:19:19 <duey> do you have any idea?
Apr 16 10:19:31 * jasta gets out his constructions materials
Apr 16 10:19:43 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 10:19:44 * jasta posts a sign in the grass that clearly reads "PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS"
Apr 16 10:19:57 * duey reads the sign and agrees
Apr 16 10:20:07 <jasta> also, don't walk on the grass.  or damage the sign.
Apr 16 10:20:17 <jasta> thanks, - management.
Apr 16 10:22:56 <edcba> you don't care about revolutionnary as long as it just works
Apr 16 10:43:09 <varjag> convivial, no but if you google for "successful google technology" am sure you'd find something
Apr 16 10:43:10 <varjag> :p
Apr 16 10:43:56 <convivial> edcba I am looking for economically viability... google-search was a happenstance
Apr 16 10:44:00 <convivial> googling :)
Apr 16 10:44:12 <varjag> you didn't use altavista much, did you
Apr 16 10:44:22 <convivial> no
Apr 16 10:44:30 <jasta> hehe
Apr 16 10:44:49 <varjag> google was so much better, it took off like forest fire
Apr 16 10:45:14 <jasta> not an easy problem to solve, either :)
Apr 16 10:45:23 <edcba> altavista was just like google but you had 80% of spam sites :)
Apr 16 10:46:19 <varjag> altavista was dictionary search, google used graph search
Apr 16 10:46:28 <varjag> that was a huge qualitative difference
Apr 16 10:46:28 <edcba> so unless using -buy -warez -mp3... it was unusable :)
Apr 16 10:47:00 <convivial> edcba ok.. i'm not into search-engines, do they use AI in conjunction with search algorithms ?
Apr 16 10:47:14 <edcba> i'm not working at google :)
Apr 16 10:47:21 <edcba> nor av
Apr 16 10:47:58 <varjag> ehm
Apr 16 10:48:05 <varjag> AI *is* search algorithms
Apr 16 10:48:05 <edcba> and it is not the subject of the channel
Apr 16 10:48:33 <jasta> varjag: this guy is hopeless ;)
Apr 16 10:48:41 <convivial> only think that comes up is google's search engine ... know that is successful, but it's not very useful because the 85+ percent of HTML on the web is porn/spam/stupidity anyways
Apr 16 10:49:11 <convivial> so, i disqualified google search from successful
Apr 16 10:49:31 <jasta> i'm detecting 85+ percent stupidity right now.
Apr 16 10:49:31 <jasta> ;)
Apr 16 10:50:26 <convivial> jasta: sorry dude, but I may be ignorant but not stupid... if you can enlighten me rather than call me names I'd be very obliged.
Apr 16 10:51:20 <convivial> jasta: in am not here to spam and argue just learn about a potential new technology and shake away some of my fears but investing time in learning it.
Apr 16 10:51:33 <jasta> your thinking is just embarrassing narrow.  i'm sorry, it would take energy i don't have to adjust that.
Apr 16 10:51:37 <jasta> embarrassingly*
Apr 16 10:51:41 <varjag> all docs are on their website
Apr 16 10:51:42 <convivial> http://code.google.com/android/ doesn't offer much info except for campainging for it
Apr 16 10:51:50 <varjag> ?
Apr 16 10:52:08 <varjag> get through their exercises, you'll know most things about android quick
Apr 16 10:52:17 <jasta> convivial: Except that it offers all the information we ultimately used to build functional applications.  So, perhaps you haven't opened your eyes wide enough.
Apr 16 10:52:26 <convivial> ok, i'll go thourhg it then...
Apr 16 10:52:28 <jasta> Or at all.
Apr 16 10:52:56 <varjag> it is the best telephony toolkit i've seen yet, by far
Apr 16 10:53:03 <jasta> agreed.
Apr 16 10:53:14 <jasta> a wide, wide margin indeed.
Apr 16 10:53:22 <convivial> i'll shall take a day or two and play with it... I hope that I have not discouraged you guys from helping me if I get any questions.
Apr 16 10:53:35 <varjag> if you think it's bad, write hello world in symbian
Apr 16 10:54:00 <convivial> varjag, I luv hello world on symbian os, it's job security dude!
Apr 16 10:54:01 <convivial> LOL
Apr 16 10:55:03 * varjag is happy he's not doing symbian for living
Apr 16 10:55:10 <varjag> some of my friends at nokia do though
Apr 16 10:56:19 <convivial> varjag: but yes, something symbian can be difficult beast to tame.
Apr 16 10:58:50 <convivial> I see they don't list vs2005 as a possible IDE for android, looks like eclipse is standard ide to use.
Apr 16 10:59:26 <varjag> there are command line tools, you can integrate them with many development environments, but probably not visual studio
Apr 16 11:00:23 <convivial> varjag: hmmm, eclipse ran slow on my old computer, maybe with this one it'll be fine.
Apr 16 11:00:43 <varjag> yeah, it ain't no speed champion
Apr 16 11:00:45 <jasta> Eclipse is not necessary, either.  Even the engineers working on Android don't all use Eclipse.
Apr 16 11:00:58 <jasta> Romain, for example, uses IntelliJ I think.
Apr 16 11:01:05 <varjag> i'd use emacs, but had no time to learn how to integrate it
Apr 16 11:01:22 <jasta> I use Vim, but haven't gotten Eclim to work quite right yet.  I'll try to make it work soon :)
Apr 16 11:01:32 <jasta> instead, I basically switched back and forth between using vim and eclipse
Apr 16 11:01:43 <jasta> vim for heavy lifting, Eclipse for tinkering/debugging/deploying
Apr 16 11:01:55 <jasta> my built environment is also in maven
Apr 16 11:02:04 <jasta> build*
Apr 16 11:02:10 <convivial> I use to be a gvim user but been spoiled by vs ide
Apr 16 11:02:32 <jasta> Good for you
Apr 16 11:03:14 <varjag> haven't used msvs since 1999, hope it has improved since then :)
Apr 16 11:03:36 <convivial> oh yes, it has!
Apr 16 11:03:41 <convivial> I also like netbeans
Apr 16 11:03:51 <jasta> You could use NetBeans with Android too, of course.
Apr 16 11:04:02 <convivial> quite sure there is nb support
Apr 16 11:04:18 <convivial> is intellij any gooed?
Apr 16 11:04:22 <jasta> The team included some magic in Eclipse through a plugin that is familiar with Android.  That plugin is entirely unnecessary, however.
Apr 16 11:04:23 <convivial> *good
Apr 16 11:04:37 <jasta> All the tools that it uses are included separately, and can be used as such.
Apr 16 11:04:52 <jasta> convivial: Why don't you try it for yourself?
Apr 16 11:05:36 <convivial> jasta I am. :)
Apr 16 11:05:46 <jasta> Then tehre's no need to ask me.
Apr 16 11:07:08 <varjag> jasta, the magic sometimes felt odd though :)
Apr 16 11:07:20 <varjag> like, when it knew nothing about phone state change intents
Apr 16 11:07:29 <varjag> but maybe just a glitch
Apr 16 11:07:34 <jasta> possibly
Apr 16 11:12:29 <convivial> is it just a rumor that android will have C# programming too?
Apr 16 11:12:42 <jasta> it is a rumor.
Apr 16 11:20:49 <convivial> which version of eclipse are you guys running? 3.3.2 or that europa version?
Apr 16 11:21:19 <convivial> decided to use same ide in examples first.
Apr 16 11:25:00 <convivial> geez, download mirrors are slow for eclipse ... took almost 2 minutes to download 79.3MB geez
Apr 16 11:25:18 <convivial> they need some faster lines or something!
Apr 16 11:27:14 <Stephmw> the intartubes, they be clogged up with all the porn
Apr 16 11:28:19 <convivial> yes, I know... porn what a waste of bandwidth ... I feel so sorry for the men tryng to get satisfaction from porn..
Apr 16 11:28:49 <convivial> Stephmw: porne to should e banned on all of Inet and WWW!
Apr 16 11:29:26 <Stephmw> convivial: oh I dunno, porn's gotta be useful for something. I'm sure it keeps marriages from breaking up ;)
Apr 16 11:29:45 <Stephmw> anyway, all the innovation on the internet is sex related, including HD content
Apr 16 11:29:56 <convivial> doubt it... sex is just a maens of reproduction.... love is what keep mariage
Apr 16 11:30:38 <Stephmw> love by itself isn't sufficient, you need a bit of everything for a good marriage
Apr 16 11:30:43 * Stephmw speaks from experience
Apr 16 11:31:31 <convivial> hmmmm, true, but sex is the least weighted parameter for a happpy marriage
Apr 16 11:33:26 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 11:33:40 <muthu> there's no internet, without porn
Apr 16 11:34:07 <muthu> and am sure someone is working on that for android
Apr 16 11:34:56 <Stephmw> the most PC-incorrect (and SFW) J2ME app I've come across is this one, http://www.getjar.com/products/48/MyGirls
Apr 16 11:35:09 <Stephmw> the mere fact that someone would use it speaks volumes
Apr 16 11:35:21 <muthu> what's that?
Apr 16 11:35:42 <Stephmw> it's a multi-woman menstruation tracker
Apr 16 11:35:47 <muthu> ah ah
Apr 16 11:36:06 <muthu> love the small print, saying can handle multiple women!
Apr 16 11:36:22 <duey> lol
Apr 16 11:36:34 <Stephmw> and somewhere there's also a S60 app for customising the vibration alert on a handset... "for your pleasure"
Apr 16 11:36:42 <Stephmw> 100k downloads too
Apr 16 11:36:44 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 11:36:52 <muthu> you see, that's innovation
Apr 16 11:37:16 <muthu> who needs LBS and always on social networking.. when you custom set your vibration!!
Apr 16 11:37:33 <Stephmw> for some reason, I could only see that being used in Japan
Apr 16 11:37:36 <muthu> wow, combine it with LBS
Apr 16 11:37:51 <muthu> Stephmw: you never know
Apr 16 11:39:34 <varjag> pah Stephmw, you're everywhere :p
Apr 16 11:39:57 <Stephmw> varjag: yeah, I swear you stalk me
Apr 16 11:40:14 <Stephmw> varjag: when your channel list matches mine, I'm calling the police
Apr 16 11:40:19 * Stephmw grins
Apr 16 11:40:20 <varjag> hehe
Apr 16 11:52:05 <muthu> zhobbs: you there?
Apr 16 13:12:06 <ligi> hi there - just anounced my submission in the forum: http://www.anddev.org/viewtopic.php?p=7182
Apr 16 13:12:34 <mihoshi> traceview keep tuntiming: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.RuntimeException: Method exit (java/lang/ClassLoader.findLoaded
Apr 16 13:12:34 <mihoshi> Class (Ljava/lang/String;)Ljava/lang/Class;) does not match current method (android/os/Debug.startCl
Apr 16 13:12:34 <mihoshi> assPrep ()V)
Apr 16 13:12:52 <mihoshi> What can be the problem?
Apr 16 13:19:58 <mihoshi> It seems to act at random - first it fails, then when I relaunch everything, everything is alright. somethomes. And sometimes still broken...
Apr 16 15:00:09 <muthu> http://www.helloandroid.com/node/479
Apr 16 15:05:12 <varjag> heh
Apr 16 15:07:04 <zhobbs> nice writeup muthu :)
Apr 16 15:07:16 <muthu> zhobbs: thanks
Apr 16 15:07:20 <muthu> glad you liked it
Apr 16 15:07:24 <muthu> hope the androids likey
Apr 16 15:09:41 <michaelnovakjr_> i'm surprised there wasn't any press coverage
Apr 16 15:09:55 <muthu> yeah michael, google remains silent
Apr 16 15:10:06 <zhobbs> yeah, there aren't a lot of articles about it
Apr 16 15:10:11 <michaelnovakjr_> i didn't even see the usual tech bloggers mentioning the end of the challenge
Apr 16 15:10:25 <michaelnovakjr_> i had a feeling google would be silent
Apr 16 15:10:28 <muthu> guess they are holding it for later, grand prizes
Apr 16 15:10:33 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_: why?
Apr 16 15:11:06 <michaelnovakjr_> its like dan morril said,  they don't want people comparing android to platforms like win mobile that have been around for a lot longer
Apr 16 15:11:26 <muthu> yeah, but i don't agree
Apr 16 15:11:39 <muthu> comparisons are likely
Apr 16 15:11:46 <ligi> michaelnovakjr_: i have blogged the end of challenge: http://ligi-tec.blogspot.com/2008/04/android-developer-challenge-submission.html ;-)
Apr 16 15:11:58 <michaelnovakjr_> of course
Apr 16 15:12:37 <michaelnovakjr_> i wanted to know how many submissions came in :)
Apr 16 15:13:03 <ligi> ~ 1000 - i think
Apr 16 15:13:40 <muthu> ligi: nice rant ;)
Apr 16 15:13:40 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_: the number of submissions must be disclosed
Apr 16 15:13:56 <muthu> more than 1000
Apr 16 15:14:23 <ligi> ;-)
Apr 16 15:15:18 <jasta> yawn
Apr 16 15:15:31 <zhobbs> jasta: still not awake?
Apr 16 15:15:39 <jasta> not really ;)
Apr 16 15:16:40 <Lede> what is there are only 38 submissions
Apr 16 15:16:43 <jasta> worked on my project last night :)
Apr 16 15:16:45 <jasta> couldnt help myself
Apr 16 15:16:47 <Lede> s/is/if
Apr 16 15:17:13 <Lede> no
Apr 16 15:17:20 <Lede> what if they extend the deadline again?
Apr 16 15:17:28 <Lede> D-:
Apr 16 15:17:31 <jasta> they won't ;)
Apr 16 15:17:39 <zhobbs> haha, I'd be pissed
Apr 16 15:17:55 <muthu> Lede: what?
Apr 16 15:18:04 <muthu> its already closed
Apr 16 15:18:12 <Lede> yeah i know
Apr 16 15:18:17 <zhobbs> I was pissed the first time they extended it
Apr 16 15:18:27 <muthu> I'm glad they did
Apr 16 15:18:29 <muthu> :)
Apr 16 15:18:59 <zhobbs> I was looking forward to a poor turnout :)
Apr 16 15:19:16 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 15:19:19 <Lede> yeah, i was a bit angry because i used my one week off trying to get by the deadline and then they announced they would extend it
Apr 16 15:19:33 <Lede> i was like "Noooooooo!"
Apr 16 15:19:57 <muthu> agree, it would be terrible for people who were ready
Apr 16 15:20:17 <zhobbs> I was pretty close
Apr 16 15:20:52 <zhobbs> but M5 fixed a lot of stuff, and changed the UI for the touchscreen which is good
Apr 16 15:21:20 <zhobbs> so I def. understand why they would delay it
Apr 16 15:27:06 <michaelnovakjr_> i am looking forward to the next sdk :)
Apr 16 15:27:27 <ligi> me too - need bluetooth
Apr 16 15:31:56 <michaelnovakjr_> i wish mobile technology in america was a bit more like other places in the world.
Apr 16 15:32:29 <ligi> michaelnovakjr_: whats the problem?
Apr 16 15:33:38 <michaelnovakjr_> its not integrated enough
Apr 16 16:22:32 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_: the US actually has a very good cellular network in terms of its scope and cost.
Apr 16 16:22:45 <jasta> more impressive, i'd say, than most of Europe.
Apr 16 16:23:25 <jasta> especially in terms of data, which is where Android is pushing.
Apr 16 16:43:52 <michaelnovakjr_> wireless data networks should be made free, jasta
Apr 16 16:44:13 <michaelnovakjr_> you should be able to access a data network from anywhere :) government service :)
Apr 16 16:44:23 <michaelnovakjr_> ::wishful thinking::
Apr 16 16:45:24 <muthu> it will get there
Apr 16 16:45:26 <muthu> eventually
Apr 16 16:45:37 <poffy_> Shouldn't be a goverment service
Apr 16 16:45:48 <poffy_> But hopefully, a private orginization should do it
Apr 16 16:45:51 <poffy_> (Google?)
Apr 16 16:46:15 <muthu> Google gives everything for free, so it should be google
Apr 16 16:46:58 <Lede> well free with advertisement
Apr 16 16:47:15 <michaelnovakjr_> as long as its free :)
Apr 16 16:47:15 <muthu> yeah with ads
Apr 16 16:47:20 <poffy_> I'm fine with that as long as it isn't annoying
Apr 16 16:47:48 <Lede> google doesnt only serve text ads ..
Apr 16 16:48:17 <Lede> besides, they may also look at it from another point
Apr 16 16:48:27 <muthu> what?
Apr 16 16:48:29 <Lede> more people on internet means more google users
Apr 16 16:48:46 <Lede> muthu: what!
Apr 16 16:48:53 <muthu> you mean from mobile?
Apr 16 16:49:01 <poffy_> which in turn means world domination? :O
Apr 16 16:49:19 <Lede> muthu: mobile aswell
Apr 16 16:50:05 <muthu> lede: thats something to think about
Apr 16 16:51:27 * Lede notices the mailinglist grinding to halt
Apr 16 16:53:23 <muthu> http://helloandroid.com/node/479
Apr 16 16:53:31 <muthu> someone wrote a nice article
Apr 16 16:53:33 <muthu> ;)
Apr 16 16:55:05 <jasta> you guys must be new to the mobile industry :)
Apr 16 16:55:12 <jasta> just wait a year, you'll be sufficiently disenchanted :)
Apr 16 16:57:18 <muthu> change would come
Apr 16 16:57:18 * Stephmw goes to read this idealistic article
Apr 16 16:57:25 <jasta> it's a long road ahead to make things different.
Apr 16 16:57:32 <jasta> and ...baby steps guys.
Apr 16 16:57:44 <muthu> jasta: its not happening overnight
Apr 16 16:57:55 <muthu> but has to happen
Apr 16 16:57:57 <jasta> how about just getting carriers to all agree that unlimited data is the only sensible pricing plan?
Apr 16 16:58:07 <Lede> "I wouldn't know how it feels hitting the submit button, because I never did. But I'm sure I would have felt the same way you did."
Apr 16 16:58:38 <muthu> lede: feedback?
Apr 16 16:58:41 <Lede> what i felt was "oh shit, did i just hit submit without double checking everything"
Apr 16 16:58:53 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 16:59:35 <jasta> i had this "oh god" feeling in my stomach that there would be some catastrophic failure in one small, non-essential part of the code
Apr 16 16:59:43 <jasta> oh *SHIT* btw
Apr 16 16:59:51 <jasta> the judges just opened my app!
Apr 16 16:59:55 <jasta> just in the last minute
Apr 16 17:00:03 <poffy_> :O
Apr 16 17:00:07 <zhobbs> really??
Apr 16 17:00:11 * poffy_ logs on
Apr 16 17:00:21 <Lede> jasta: is your program using a webservice?
Apr 16 17:00:25 <muthu> true, if something breaks we are toast
Apr 16 17:00:27 <Stephmw> jasta: you've first got to make them agree to a public and definitive definition of 'unlimited', 'data', 'sensible', 'plan' and 'agree'
Apr 16 17:00:59 <michaelnovakjr__> that is interesting
Apr 16 17:01:11 <jasta> oh my god, my heart is pounding :)
Apr 16 17:01:12 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta sucks now you have to wait so long to know ;)
Apr 16 17:01:40 <muthu> jasts: for real?
Apr 16 17:01:44 <jasta> yes, for real.
Apr 16 17:01:46 <jasta> new session: id=a1bd1f37-9136-4e5f-abc3-55aea7501268 (uri=http://66.182.0.171:5545/sync)
Apr 16 17:01:49 <jasta> alert for remote db music: type=210, last=0, next=1208364126
Apr 16 17:01:52 <muthu> woah!!
Apr 16 17:01:55 <jasta> that means someone is on it ;)
Apr 16 17:02:07 <muthu> cool.. check the time
Apr 16 17:02:08 <michaelnovakjr__> locate the ip :)
Apr 16 17:02:11 <jasta> i will, hang on
Apr 16 17:02:20 <zhobbs> they going in alpha  order?
Apr 16 17:02:22 <jasta> btw, please no one fuck with that url :\
Apr 16 17:02:25 <zhobbs> "android-five"
Apr 16 17:02:28 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 16 17:02:30 <jasta> i doubt it'll work, but just uhh, dont.
Apr 16 17:02:33 <Stephmw> jasta: bit late now, it's already slashdotted
Apr 16 17:02:38 <ligi> here a small video of my submission:
Apr 16 17:02:43 <jasta> zhobbs: it was posted as Five.
Apr 16 17:02:43 <ligi> http://www.vimeo.com/905980
Apr 16 17:03:10 <muthu> this is getting interesting by the minute
Apr 16 17:03:12 <jasta> i am *freaking out* :)
Apr 16 17:03:27 <muthu> the duration would be very interesting
Apr 16 17:03:34 <muthu> how long the judges are using your app
Apr 16 17:03:42 <poffy_> Are they just doing the "see if app opens" test?
Apr 16 17:03:56 <jasta> oh god...
Apr 16 17:04:03 <jasta> 4.45.239.216.in-addr.arpa	name = 216-239-45-4.google.com.
Apr 16 17:04:05 <jasta> ;)
Apr 16 17:04:08 <poffy_> haha
Apr 16 17:04:17 <muthu> shit!
Apr 16 17:04:26 <muthu> really happening!!
Apr 16 17:04:48 <poffy_> I have my androidIRC Client up and running so I can see when someone gets on
Apr 16 17:04:57 <Lede> maybe it's just a script opening the packages and trying to run them :o)
Apr 16 17:04:58 <ligi> hehe
Apr 16 17:05:01 <ligi> n1
Apr 16 17:05:05 <poffy_> Lede, that's what I was thinking
Apr 16 17:05:14 <muthu> no, it must be real
Apr 16 17:05:19 <poffy_> Cause they said apps would be tested before distrubed to all the judges
Apr 16 17:06:39 <Lede> ligi: that looks pretty awesome
Apr 16 17:06:56 <ligi> Lede: thanx
Apr 16 17:07:47 <muthu> mikcrokopter.. it rocks
Apr 16 17:08:14 <ligi> full ack
Apr 16 17:09:10 <Stephmw> ligi: next vid, from a cam on the flying beast?
Apr 16 17:09:35 <ligi> Stephmw: flying android phone ^^
Apr 16 17:09:43 <ligi> with cam
Apr 16 17:09:46 <Stephmw> kinda hard to control though, no?
Apr 16 17:09:56 <ligi> no
Apr 16 17:10:00 <ligi> easy
Apr 16 17:10:07 <Kraln> has anyone else posted apks? =)
Apr 16 17:10:08 <ligi> with gyros / acc / gps
Apr 16 17:11:02 <poffy_> Hey Kraln
Apr 16 17:17:43 <jasta> they finished syncing :)
Apr 16 17:19:01 <jasta> hey, what gives.  they finished syncing like a few minutes ago but haven't continued to use it.
Apr 16 17:19:10 <Kraln> they probably put it down
Apr 16 17:19:10 <jasta> maybe they just didn't notice yet
Apr 16 17:19:34 <Kraln> how long does sync take again? 45 minutes?
Apr 16 17:19:36 <jasta> they didn't cancel it, because the server is reporting success
Apr 16 17:19:50 <poffy_> jasta, this is your chance, activate the backdoor!
Apr 16 17:20:08 <jasta> Kraln: about 35m, but it mentions why.
Apr 16 17:20:39 <Kraln> jasta: so they probably started it and walked away for coffee or something
Apr 16 17:20:44 <jasta> it's super inefficient right now, but stable.
Apr 16 17:21:29 <jasta> the program itself even tells you why.  basically, i didn't want to start tearing up the critical first step to my app just before i submitted it :)
Apr 16 17:21:47 <Kraln> no no, I'm not denegrating your submission
Apr 16 17:21:47 <jasta> and that i originally designed it using plain text XML and with the sync system normalized so that i could debug and test more easily
Apr 16 17:21:58 <Kraln> just positing a possibility why they didn't immediately start using it after sync was done
Apr 16 17:22:08 <Kraln> even I'm not pedantic enough to watch a progress bar for a half hour (usually...)
Apr 16 17:22:10 <jasta> yeah, you're probably right.
Apr 16 17:22:25 <jasta> well, at least it synced successfully ;)
Apr 16 17:22:26 <Kraln> is your progress bar indefinite? or does it show an eta?
Apr 16 17:22:50 <jasta> it shows an ETA
Apr 16 17:23:11 <jasta> but the ETA makes you feel very depressed because it really will take 35 minutes ;)
Apr 16 17:24:05 <jasta> though maybe this was just the first wave of testing to make sure it actually works
Apr 16 17:24:35 <Kraln> perhaps they decompiled it and analyzed it to make sure you weren't haxxoring them
Apr 16 17:24:54 <jasta> this was such an incredible feeling to see:
Apr 16 17:24:55 <jasta> end session: id=a1bd1f37-9136-4e5f-abc3-55aea7501268
Apr 16 17:24:55 <jasta> ** Message: updating anchors in server db
Apr 16 17:25:15 <jasta> that's what it does when it worked perfectly hehe
Apr 16 17:25:39 <jasta> though they still haven't used it yet.  agghh!  this is driving me mad ;0
Apr 16 17:25:39 <Kraln> it's always a great feeling to see your complex rube goldberg unravel perfectly
Apr 16 17:25:53 <jasta> god i hope nothing went wrong :\
Apr 16 17:26:05 <Kraln> reeelaaxxx
Apr 16 17:26:10 <poffy_> NULL POINTER EXCEPTION
Apr 16 17:26:29 <Kraln> what!? java doesn't have pointers! what does this mean!?
Apr 16 17:26:41 <jasta> if the content service failed for any reason, it wouldnt show any more logging :(
Apr 16 17:26:50 <Kraln> oh noo
Apr 16 17:26:51 <jasta> Kraln: Yes, Java has exclusively pointers and primitives.
Apr 16 17:26:52 <Kraln> :-(
Apr 16 17:27:14 <Kraln> jasta: I know exactly what java has, m8. I'm just being foolish
Apr 16 17:27:16 <poffy_> oh shi-
Apr 16 17:27:16 <jasta> And everything is pass-by-value.
Apr 16 17:27:23 <poffy_> You call tell I've started C++ again
Apr 16 17:27:27 <poffy_> pointers on the brain
Apr 16 17:27:50 <jasta> actually, NPE is an exception you would see in Java.
Apr 16 17:27:55 <poffy_> oh ok
Apr 16 17:27:59 <poffy_> I'm not going crazy, then
Apr 16 17:28:00 <jasta> and in fact, it would be the exception they'd see if the content service failed :)
Apr 16 17:28:04 <poffy_> THANKS FOR CONFUSING ME, KRALN
Apr 16 17:28:15 <Kraln> you think you're confused? imagine if you had never seen C
Apr 16 17:28:27 <Kraln> java doesn't have 'pointers' per se because you don't get memory access
Apr 16 17:28:45 <Kraln> npe = reference to null
Apr 16 17:28:54 <poffy_> Yeah, that's what I thought
Apr 16 17:29:47 <poffy_> After working with Java, on this project, I still think I like C++ better
Apr 16 17:30:08 <jasta> Actually, though Java describes itself as having eliminated pointers, they have done nothing of the sort.
Apr 16 17:30:27 <muthu> jasta: where's the pointers?
Apr 16 17:30:31 <jasta> What they have done is remove certain operators, such as increment and decrement.
Apr 16 17:31:19 <jasta> Though assignment is still permitted, of course.
Apr 16 17:31:55 <jasta> muthu: As I said, the language has only two basic types, pointers and primitives, despite the specification incorrectly claiming that there are no pointers.
Apr 16 17:32:22 <jasta> If you consider what a pointer means in the context of the language that canonized it (C), how does Java differ?  What semantics has Java fundamentally altered to the concept?
Apr 16 17:32:54 <jasta> As I said, they have reduced the set of operators that can act on a pointer, but have changed nothing else.
Apr 16 17:34:08 <jasta> They also introduced a layer of strong and weak references, as well, though that is not especially particular to the language but more to its designated VM.
Apr 16 17:35:39 <jasta> Instead I presume they would want to call their new variation a reference, however according to C's original definition of reference that is not valid either.
Apr 16 17:35:58 <jasta> Instead, in the context of C, it is a pointer with reduced operators and a system of reference tracking.
Apr 16 17:36:11 <jasta> But, I will concede that defining one language in terms of another is foolish ;)
Apr 16 17:36:46 <muthu> right
Apr 16 17:38:16 <jasta> i'm just trying to keep my brain busy...  i'm pretty sure that my app bombed out on them and that's why they have not proceeded :(
Apr 16 17:38:38 <muthu> relax
Apr 16 17:38:49 <jasta> they haven't actually downloaded any music though! :(
Apr 16 17:39:05 <muthu> they would have got the concept and the idea
Apr 16 17:39:31 <jasta> sigh, i guess
Apr 16 17:40:05 <Kraln> maybe they're creeped out that you're watching them
Apr 16 17:40:12 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 17:40:26 <muthu> hey judges, run five..now!
Apr 16 17:41:14 <jerkface03> what?
Apr 16 17:43:20 <jasta> it just makes me nervous that they ran into that race condition the first time they try to play music :(
Apr 16 17:43:28 <jasta> it's totally possible to hit just tinkering around, sigh
Apr 16 17:43:32 <jasta> at least i mentioned it in my README
Apr 16 17:43:41 <muthu> is there a workaround?
Apr 16 17:43:55 <jasta> yeah, you just hit force quit and click on the song again :)
Apr 16 17:44:04 <muthu> ok
Apr 16 17:44:13 <Kraln> jasta: It would suck if you got boned by a race condition
Apr 16 17:44:17 <jasta> and then it will continue working for the duration of thesession
Apr 16 17:44:21 <jasta> oh shit, there it goes!!!!
Apr 16 17:44:30 <muthu> cool
Apr 16 17:44:44 <jasta> what a bunch of lame asses, they clicked the first entry in the list and the first song
Apr 16 17:44:53 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 17:44:57 <Kraln> you should feed them hypnotic music
Apr 16 17:45:02 <Kraln> "you will pick my entry, it is the best"
Apr 16 17:45:04 <ligi> lol
Apr 16 17:45:10 <jasta> sending /home/jguilfoyle/music.five.copyright-free/A/Alexi Murdoch/Time Without Consequence/01 - All My Days.mp3...
Apr 16 17:45:11 <Kraln> overlaid on all the tracks
Apr 16 17:45:14 <jasta> ;)
Apr 16 17:45:31 <Kraln> jasta: creative commons licensed? brilliant
Apr 16 17:45:54 <ligi> my app is totaly useless without a mikrokopter device - wonder what they will do
Apr 16 17:46:08 <ligi> Kraln: mine iss cc too
Apr 16 17:46:27 <ligi> Kraln: with non military addition
Apr 16 17:46:27 <muthu> this is great jasta
Apr 16 17:48:18 <muthu> now we know the judges are in action
Apr 16 17:48:35 * morrildl is not a judge
Apr 16 17:48:44 <morrildl> at least, not right now
Apr 16 17:48:54 <Kraln> all you know is that someone at google is poking with stuff
Apr 16 17:48:59 <Kraln> you don't know if they're a judge or not
Apr 16 17:49:18 <Kraln> morrildl: did you see my entry? It's open source / posted on google code =)
Apr 16 17:49:43 <morrildl> Kraln: I saw your site, although I have not encountered it in the actual submission list
Apr 16 17:49:55 <morrildl> looks pretty cool :)
Apr 16 17:50:03 <Kraln> cool =)
Apr 16 17:50:25 <Kraln> that was the one criteria I wasn't certain we nailed. =)
Apr 16 17:50:32 <morrildl> heh heh
Apr 16 17:50:53 * morrildl is currently tweaking the administration process to handle submissions with multiple apks
Apr 16 17:51:33 <zhobbs> morrildl: is it all automated for the judges?
Apr 16 17:51:34 <Kraln> didn't expect that, didja! =)
Apr 16 17:51:45 <morrildl> zhobbs: yep
Apr 16 17:51:59 <zhobbs> morrildl: you'd have to automate it, esp with all those entries...how many was it again?
Apr 16 17:52:12 <morrildl> we are shipping laptops to the judges to do judging on, so that each judge has an identical experience
Apr 16 17:52:20 <jasta> morrildl: hehe, like mine? :)
Apr 16 17:52:21 <zhobbs> cool
Apr 16 17:52:30 <morrildl> we don't want some judges scoring people down for being "slow" when their virus scanner is going nuts or something
Apr 16 17:52:32 <jasta> morrildl: is that you that's connected btw? :)
Apr 16 17:52:37 <morrildl> jasta: yes :)
Apr 16 17:52:50 <romainguy_> so I can't resist to quote jasta
Apr 16 17:52:51 <jasta> ....wellllll? :)
Apr 16 17:52:52 <romainguy_> "jasta: what a bunch of lame asses, they clicked the first entry in the list and the first song"
Apr 16 17:52:52 <morrildl> Dr. Sbaitso all over again
Apr 16 17:52:53 <romainguy_> :))
Apr 16 17:53:15 <jasta> morrildl: i am enjoying watching the system pre-empt you :)
Apr 16 17:53:18 <jasta> preempt*
Apr 16 17:53:27 <morrildl> well, I tried clicking on the Strokes and Arcade Fire while it was syncing but there was no content yet
Apr 16 17:53:40 <jasta> morrildl: Yeah, don't do that.  It will hate you.
Apr 16 17:53:53 <morrildl> ...or at least mildly disapprove
Apr 16 17:53:53 <jasta> What I plan tod o moving forward is make the sync process atomic completely.
Apr 16 17:54:05 <jasta> So that while it's syncing, none of the new data will be visible in the UI
Apr 16 17:54:17 <jasta> but Android's goofy ContentProvider schema made that hard to figure a good way to do it.
Apr 16 17:54:33 <morrildl> zhobbs: we had $LOTS submissions
Apr 16 17:54:34 <jasta> I don't want to make a dummy content URI query that does begin transaction and stuff.  Plus, it doesn't seem like it would work.
Apr 16 17:54:59 <morrildl> zhobbs: unfortunately I don't know how to get a shell macro expansion to work in my IRC client ;)
Apr 16 17:55:06 <jasta> morrildl: the festival output sure is annoying, huh? :)
Apr 16 17:55:11 <Kraln> morrildl: /exec
Apr 16 17:55:21 <morrildl> HELLO MY NAME IS DOCTOR SBAITSO
Apr 16 17:55:38 <morrildl> I AM HERE TO HELP YOU SAY WHATEVER IS ON YOUR MIND FREELY OUR CONVERSATION WILL BE KEPT IN STRICT CONFIDENCE
Apr 16 17:55:45 <morrildl> MEMORY CONTENTS WILL BE WIPED OFF AFTER YOU LEVAE
Apr 16 17:56:14 <zhobbs> morrildl: there's 145 on HelloAndroid, is that less than 1/4? :)
Apr 16 17:56:32 <morrildl> That is bigger than a breadbox.
Apr 16 17:56:49 <Kraln> morrildl: you're failing the turing test -.-
Apr 16 17:57:42 <morrildl> Kraln: Am I?    Or are YOU?????
Apr 16 17:58:22 <muthu> morrildl: when does the judging start?\
Apr 16 17:58:26 <Lede> DUN DUN DUN DUN!!
Apr 16 17:59:53 <muthu> the laptop loaded with all apk's?
Apr 16 18:01:06 <muthu> morrildl: any change a cooking app will win? ;)
Apr 16 18:01:10 <muthu> *chance
Apr 16 18:02:02 <Lede> what does your cooking application do
Apr 16 18:02:09 <muthu> cook ;)
Apr 16 18:02:13 <Stephmw> muthu: only if it cooks the food for the judges
Apr 16 18:02:14 <Lede> lol
Apr 16 18:02:27 <muthu> yeah that's what it does :)
Apr 16 18:02:34 <Kraln> does it get them a pillow?
Apr 16 18:02:40 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 18:02:45 <muthu> if it wins i take the credit
Apr 16 18:03:03 <muthu> if it loses my friend takes the blame
Apr 16 18:03:05 <muthu> :)
Apr 16 18:03:18 <Lede> playing it safe
Apr 16 18:03:29 <muthu> lede: basically cooking show delivered
Apr 16 18:03:54 <Lede> like "what could i eat today tips" and stuff?
Apr 16 18:04:04 <muthu> yes.. with shop list, recipes
Apr 16 18:04:13 <muthu> etc.,
Apr 16 18:04:27 <Lede> that could be useful i guess
Apr 16 18:04:28 <f00f-> dude your app better cook for me
Apr 16 18:04:29 <muthu> you can share, find market
Apr 16 18:04:33 <morrildl> muthu: suree
Apr 16 18:04:40 <muthu> yay!
Apr 16 18:04:50 <muthu> make it win, i want to come for Google I/O
Apr 16 18:04:53 <muthu> ;)
Apr 16 18:06:17 <Lede> morrildl: why are there no events in the netherlands :/
Apr 16 18:07:24 <muthu> all events happen only in the valley.. i've come to terms with it
Apr 16 18:07:46 <muthu> *bleeding edge events
Apr 16 18:09:28 <jasta> morrildl: so, are all the judges in the US?  would it be reasonable to think that our apps won't be judged well outside of normal business hours PST?
Apr 16 18:09:51 <muthu> where are the judges? are they worldwide?
Apr 16 18:09:53 <jasta> not that i'd do anything to rely on this, i'm just curious ;)
Apr 16 18:10:08 <Lede> the judges live outside of the matrix
Apr 16 18:10:13 <Lede> dun dun dun!
Apr 16 18:14:39 <mihoshi> I have afeeling that Android SDK updates itself from the net... It's behaviour change slightly over time without obvious reasons
Apr 16 18:14:52 <mihoshi> Or may be I'm just paranoid...
Apr 16 18:15:06 <muthu> no way
Apr 16 18:15:11 <benley> I think you're just paranoid
Apr 16 18:15:16 <muthu> the sdk will not update itself
Apr 16 18:15:25 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
Apr 16 18:18:02 <morrildl> jasta: judges are worldwide
Apr 16 18:18:36 <morrildl> if you have a server component you will almost certainly see accesses from all hours
Apr 16 18:18:48 <Kraln> morrildl: do they all speak at minimum english?
Apr 16 18:19:01 <morrildl> Kraln: yes
Apr 16 18:19:11 <muthu> wow, worldwide
Apr 16 18:19:18 <Kraln> good. I didn't have time to write multiple string.xml files for i18n
Apr 16 18:19:19 <B0jangles> Heh: J2ME
Apr 16 18:19:24 <B0jangles> Judge 2 Minimum English
Apr 16 18:19:29 <michaelnovakjr_1> hhaha
Apr 16 18:19:36 <Lede> oh wow
Apr 16 18:24:36 <jasta> well, that was exciting today seeing my server spit stuff out :)
Apr 16 18:25:11 <f00f-> judging has started?
Apr 16 18:25:21 <B0jangles> jasta: what do you mean?
Apr 16 18:26:01 <jasta> f00f-: no, it was just morrildl tinkering.  perhaps they're doing a pre-round to test the apps that work and tidy up the submissions for the judges
Apr 16 18:26:28 <jasta> morrildl mentioned that he's tweaking stuff to make multiple apks work, which my app uses.  so that's probably why he was testing.
Apr 16 18:26:35 <jasta> i don't know, just speculating.
Apr 16 18:26:49 <f00f-> okay, seems to make sense
Apr 16 18:27:09 <muthu> jasta: you had multiple apk's?
Apr 16 18:27:38 <jasta> yes.
Apr 16 18:27:48 <muthu> is that allowed?
Apr 16 18:28:01 <jasta> apparently, if morrildl is adjusting their system to support it :)
Apr 16 18:28:02 <muthu> was under the impression that only a single apk must be submitted
Apr 16 18:28:05 <jasta> maybe he's doing it just for me, muwhahah
Apr 16 18:28:19 <muthu> great
Apr 16 18:28:27 <muthu> now its confirmed
Apr 16 18:28:28 <morrildl> muthu: technically yes, single APKs
Apr 16 18:28:33 <Lede> weird
Apr 16 18:28:46 <morrildl> however waaaaaaaaaaaay early on I told people multiple APKs was okay and then forgot about it
Apr 16 18:28:54 <muthu> oh ok
Apr 16 18:29:04 <muthu> and jasta took advantage of it ;)
Apr 16 18:29:10 <morrildl> and it would be deeply lame to screw those people, so I bit the bullet and added support :)
Apr 16 18:29:15 <morrildl> jasta got lucky ;)
Apr 16 18:29:16 <jasta> i maintain that google would be wrong to not accept multiple apks, since that's how they are distributing and building their own projects anyway.
Apr 16 18:29:29 <morrildl> yeah, it was an administrative thing anyway
Apr 16 18:29:40 <muthu> morrildl: you did the right thing
Apr 16 18:29:45 <morrildl> and in the absence of detailed instructions on that score, I just added the support
Apr 16 18:29:49 <jasta> exactly, not a technical perspective.  but thank you either way morrildl :)
Apr 16 18:30:27 <jasta> for example if i was to have written some sort of game library or whats-it, i would have also distributed my app this way.  one demos package, one core package.
Apr 16 18:30:29 <muthu> i know a few, who merged their multiple apk's into one
Apr 16 18:30:33 <muthu> the last day
Apr 16 18:30:34 <jasta> ebcause no one would ever combine them for release.
Apr 16 18:31:03 <davidw> damn
Apr 16 18:31:25 <morrildl> yeah
Apr 16 18:31:39 <morrildl> heh
Apr 16 18:31:48 <davidw> I totally would have sent in two apk's for my client's submission, but I had to add in support for stashing external Java .class files into the Hecl package generation process
Apr 16 18:31:51 <Lede> morrildl: so does $LOTS means thousands or hundreds :o)
Apr 16 18:31:54 <davidw> instead
Apr 16 18:31:55 <morrildl> We had exactly 2 submissions that provided custom geodb files
Apr 16 18:32:09 <morrildl> I spent a significant amount of time on support for that
Apr 16 18:32:11 <morrildl> hehehehe
Apr 16 18:32:25 <davidw> and it's already an ugly process
Apr 16 18:32:28 <muthu> i thought people would do that - providing custom geodb
Apr 16 18:32:36 <muthu> because it makes sense
Apr 16 18:34:17 <muthu> morrildl: how's thewinners announced? website? email?
Apr 16 18:34:30 <morrildl> muthu: no idea, not my department :)
Apr 16 18:34:33 <morrildl> probably all of the above
Apr 16 18:34:36 <morrildl> plus a press release or something
Apr 16 18:34:41 <muthu> great
Apr 16 18:34:47 <benley> ed mcmahon shows up at your door to inform you
Apr 16 18:34:53 <muthu> woah
Apr 16 18:35:06 <muthu> lol
Apr 16 18:35:28 <rhett> hey guys
Apr 16 18:35:35 * Lede waves his hand infront of morrildl 
Apr 16 18:35:39 <muthu> hey
Apr 16 18:35:43 <rhett> well I got my app in, thank goodness
Apr 16 18:36:01 <Lede> so are there like thousands or hundreds applications?
Apr 16 18:36:14 <muthu> thousands for sure
Apr 16 18:36:24 <rhett> I wish we got back some kind of md5 sum to be sure they recieved it
Apr 16 18:36:32 <rhett> wow, really thousands?
Apr 16 18:36:43 <muthu> yes
Apr 16 18:36:44 <rhett> there are 9000 people subscribed to the google group
Apr 16 18:36:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> they should just give everyone here an award for being champs :)
Apr 16 18:36:45 <Lede> i don't know, he wont speak
Apr 16 18:37:19 <rhett> are there a lot more public apps now?
Apr 16 18:37:25 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, I think they should give everyone a free phone:-)
Apr 16 18:37:37 <muthu> a phone would be nice
Apr 16 18:37:48 <morrildl> who now?
Apr 16 18:37:58 <morrildl> what's that Lede?
Apr 16 18:38:02 <morrildl> oh
Apr 16 18:38:05 <morrildl> Can't say right now :)
Apr 16 18:38:17 <Lede> :(
Apr 16 18:38:29 <muthu> i guessed 10000
Apr 16 18:38:34 <muthu> is that way off?
Apr 16 18:38:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> morridl, and this is the anticipation two days after :)
Apr 16 18:38:41 <Lede> morrildl: over 9000
Apr 16 18:38:47 <Lede> oops wrong tab complete
Apr 16 18:38:56 <Lede> meant to say that to muthu
Apr 16 18:38:58 <davidw> is it bigger than a breadbox?
Apr 16 18:39:17 <morrildl> davidw: Yes.
Apr 16 18:39:34 <davidw> wow, sounds clunky... guess I'll stick with nokia;-)
Apr 16 18:39:48 <muthu> i am yet to figure out why keeping the submission number a secret makes sense
Apr 16 18:40:06 <davidw> muthu, they're worried about their competitors getting information
Apr 16 18:40:32 <rhett> muthu, because google is a billion dollar company with a board and marketing department
Apr 16 18:40:34 <muthu> davidw: how's the numbers helping the competition?
Apr 16 18:40:43 <rhett> amazon won't even say how many kindle's sold
Apr 16 18:40:52 <Kraln> do no evil huh
Apr 16 18:40:55 <Kraln> =)
Apr 16 18:41:17 <muthu> rhett: so somethings ought to be secret, huh
Apr 16 18:41:19 <davidw> muthu, I'm Sun, and I can say "only 10,000 submissions?  we have 10 times that number of applications shipping right now from java.net" or something like that
Apr 16 18:41:42 <Lede> yeah
Apr 16 18:41:48 <Lede> davidw has a point
Apr 16 18:41:49 <muthu> yeah, but android can always say its only alpha
Apr 16 18:42:06 <davidw> hey, don't ask me to delve that deep into the minds of the marketers
Apr 16 18:42:33 <muthu> the new age marketing is transparency
Apr 16 18:42:40 <muthu> word of mouth
Apr 16 18:42:47 <muthu> i heard seth godin is big in google
Apr 16 18:42:52 <muthu> haven't they read him?
Apr 16 18:42:54 <muthu> ;)
Apr 16 18:44:24 <michaelnovakjr_1> has anyone put their apk online yet?
Apr 16 18:45:28 <Lede> i havnt
Apr 16 18:45:30 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, sure, along with all the source code
Apr 16 18:45:54 <poffy_> http://code.google.com/p/androidchat/
Apr 16 18:47:05 <ligi> michaelnovakjr_1: only the sources
Apr 16 18:48:24 <michaelnovakjr_1> cool, i'm going to post my 0.2 update very soon
Apr 16 18:56:52 <pawalls_> Kraln, Actually the quote is "Don't be evil", contrary to popular belief :-P
Apr 16 18:58:34 <Kraln> ah, yes. written on the wall by an engineer before a business meeting
Apr 16 19:01:56 <pawalls_> I think it's possible that some peoples' perception of "evil" is a bit skewed. I personally don't see how not releasing a count of submissions the day after submissions have ceased is particularly evil in the grand scheme of things. :-P
Apr 16 19:02:16 <poffy_> ^
Apr 16 19:02:29 <zhobbs> maybe the number is 666?
Apr 16 19:02:48 * pawalls_ chuckles.
Apr 16 19:03:06 <muthu> 9999
Apr 16 19:03:17 <zhobbs> I agree though, they're pretty much hooking us up with $5 million for this time around..so cant complain too much
Apr 16 19:03:25 <poffy_> Probably just around 9,000
Apr 16 19:07:50 <poffy_> Has there been any announcement about the next release of the SDK?
Apr 16 19:08:02 <zhobbs> nope
Apr 16 19:08:18 <zhobbs> probably never will be announcements about new SDK's...they'll just release them
Apr 16 19:08:25 <poffy_> oh ok
Apr 16 19:08:37 <zhobbs> they're sneaky
Apr 16 19:08:40 <morrildl> heh
Apr 16 19:08:57 <morrildl> well, there are pre-announcements and then there is just basic roadmap info
Apr 16 19:09:28 <morrildl> the real answer is:  c'mon, let me finish this judging thing first :)
Apr 16 19:10:34 <poffy_> May 5th is when winners are announced, right?
Apr 16 19:11:55 <zhobbs> I think so
Apr 16 19:12:14 <zhobbs> that might have been tentative though
Apr 16 19:12:22 <morrildl> Well
Apr 16 19:12:25 <morrildl> It's not tentative
Apr 16 19:12:41 <morrildl> On the other hand, it was chosen before we knew how many submissions we would get :)
Apr 16 19:14:00 <muthu> we trust in google response time
Apr 16 19:14:10 <muthu> so the results will be out on may 5 for sure
Apr 16 19:15:02 <davidw> eheheh
Apr 16 19:15:03 <rhett> morrildl, i'm interested in the larger prize phase.  Will there be pressure on the top 50 to improve their apps for a month to compete for the larger awards?
Apr 16 19:15:14 <davidw> *we've* been working nights and weekends.  Your turn:->
Apr 16 19:15:18 <rhett> or maybe require that they submit with a new sdk
Apr 16 19:16:16 <rhett> i suspose google is probably thinking about that now
Apr 16 19:16:30 <poffy_> I want frame-by-frame animations fixed :)
Apr 16 19:16:33 <poffy_> Then I can do a game
Apr 16 19:16:35 <rhett> it makes a big difference though, if I should be working on my app now to get a head start for the next phase
Apr 16 19:16:45 <muthu> rhett: you mean some of the winners might not continue?
Apr 16 19:17:06 <Kraln> I'm interested if google is thinking of absorbing some of the winners
Apr 16 19:17:12 <Kraln> to know if*
Apr 16 19:17:22 <zhobbs> rhett: the apps will be rejudged, so I would recommend improved the app between I and II...because others will improve theirs I'm sure
Apr 16 19:17:26 <romainguy_> poffy_: it is fixed :p
Apr 16 19:17:35 <poffy_> Really?
Apr 16 19:17:44 <muthu> ah that's another interesting angle.. how many are going to google?
Apr 16 19:17:45 <rhett> I mean, after the 50 winners are announced, the real prize is competing for the $100k-$225k
Apr 16 19:17:45 <romainguy_> just not in M5 :)
Apr 16 19:17:50 <poffy_> yeah, that's what I thought
Apr 16 19:17:51 <poffy_> heh
Apr 16 19:18:14 <poffy_> I was just starting to learn Java and Android and I wanted to do a simple animation
Apr 16 19:18:20 <poffy_> God, frame-by-frame was making me mad
Apr 16 19:18:30 <poffy_> Until I read on the groups that it was buggy
Apr 16 19:18:53 <romainguy_> that said it's pretty simple to do your own
Apr 16 19:19:34 <poffy_> Using viewflipper?
Apr 16 19:20:04 <romainguy_> no, just writing your own drawing code
Apr 16 19:20:06 <romainguy_> or your own drawable
Apr 16 19:20:21 <davidw> "easy for leonardo"
Apr 16 19:20:23 <poffy_> Hm, yeah
Apr 16 19:20:36 <poffy_> I suppose that's why I wanna know when the next SDK is coming
Apr 16 19:20:54 <poffy_> to decide whether or not I want to put time into creating a drawable that will be worthless once the new SDK hits
Apr 16 19:21:04 <romainguy_> ask morrildl :)
Apr 16 19:21:25 <poffy_> heh
Apr 16 19:24:27 <muthu> good night droids
Apr 16 19:24:35 <jasta> hey romain
Apr 16 19:24:40 <romainguy_> yo
Apr 16 19:30:15 <zhobbs> morrildl: are the judges going to test the same apps at the same time and discuss?  Or do you just send the laptops and all the judges work at their own pace?
Apr 16 19:30:26 <morrildl> zhobbs: the latter
Apr 16 19:32:27 <poffy_> morrildl, can I please have a list of the judges and their addresses? I'm baking some cupcakes and cookies.
Apr 16 19:32:46 <poffy_> with the word "AndroidChat" on them
Apr 16 19:32:49 <AstainHellbring> no xlax cookies allowed
Apr 16 19:41:44 <poffy_> AstainHellbring, why would I send xlax cookies with "AndroidChat" on them?
Apr 16 19:42:00 <AstainHellbring> I dunno...
Apr 16 19:42:09 <AstainHellbring> I was just being silly
Apr 16 19:42:15 <poffy_> oh ok
Apr 16 19:42:23 <poffy_> What's the name of your entry?
Apr 16 19:42:32 <Kraln> can we try it?
Apr 16 19:42:34 <poffy_> Cause I could send xlax cookies with your entry's name on them
Apr 16 19:42:34 <poffy_> :D
Apr 16 19:43:17 <AstainHellbring> lol I have no entry not a programmer
Apr 16 19:43:35 <poffy_> oh ok
Apr 16 19:43:50 <Kraln>  lover not a fighta?
Apr 16 19:45:33 <AstainHellbring> kinda
Apr 16 19:45:38 <AstainHellbring> mostly just a network guy
Apr 16 19:46:22 <poffy_> Someone should make a shirt that says that, with the fighter
Apr 16 19:46:26 <poffy_> from FFIII
Apr 16 19:47:28 <Lede> final fantasy
Apr 16 19:47:31 <Lede> \o/
Apr 16 19:47:42 * Lede is playing ffxii atm
Apr 16 19:47:55 <AstainHellbring> nice
Apr 16 19:48:04 <AstainHellbring> me too games nice
Apr 16 20:16:31 <michaelnovakjr__> i must say ubuntu 8.04 is graphically really awesome
Apr 16 20:33:39 <davidw> yeah?
Apr 16 20:45:10 <michaelnovakjr__> excellent davidw
Apr 16 20:45:22 <michaelnovakjr__> especially if you have accelerated graphics :)
Apr 16 20:48:11 <Stephmw> michaelnovakjr__: is it out of beta already?
Apr 16 20:49:46 <tmccrary> Does anyone know approximately when the first android hardware will be out? Are there going to be any early release developer kits w/ hardware available for purchase?
Apr 16 20:51:44 <zhobbs> jasta: you seen this: http://www.bonecoder.com/
Apr 16 20:53:21 <tmccrary> The reason I ask is that the emulated version in the SDK just isn't powerful enough to do anything beyond a cube in 3d
Apr 16 20:53:38 <edcba> and ?
Apr 16 20:54:17 <tmccrary> edcba: You powers of comprehension astound me, edcba
Apr 16 20:54:34 <f00f-> michaelnovakjr__: what's so special with 8.04?
Apr 16 20:55:20 <edcba> maybe ubuntu 1.0 was not
Apr 16 20:55:43 <romainguy_> tmccrary: it depends on your host machine
Apr 16 20:56:13 <tmccrary> romainguy_: Wow, are you Romain Guy the Filthy Rich Clients guy?
Apr 16 20:56:18 <romainguy_> yes
Apr 16 20:56:35 <tmccrary> romainguy_: Cool, I read your blog once in while ;)
Apr 16 20:56:39 <romainguy_> :)
Apr 16 20:56:41 <Dougie187> f00f-: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/beta#head-e55186d5d312cfd6b8d74a407dbef271a1edfc46
Apr 16 20:57:51 <edcba> but what is the problem with having a slow emulator ?
Apr 16 20:58:01 <f00f-> nothing special there
Apr 16 20:58:10 <Dougie187> depends what your looking for.
Apr 16 20:58:15 <Dougie187> some people see a lot.
Apr 16 20:58:34 <tmccrary> just being slow isn't as big of a deal,  but the crashing part is what gets me
Apr 16 20:58:56 <f00f-> i run xorg with AIGLX here and compiz fusion
Apr 16 20:59:00 <f00f-> on 7.x
Apr 16 20:59:02 <tmccrary> although maybe I should reinstall the sdk, just to make sure it isn't a local problem
Apr 16 20:59:36 <Dougie187> KVM is a big deal to some people.
Apr 16 20:59:46 <Dougie187> and the windows stuff would make it easier to let windows users test it out
Apr 16 20:59:46 <f00f-> oh didnt see KVM
Apr 16 20:59:54 <f00f-> kernel thing though
Apr 16 21:00:00 <Dougie187> true
Apr 16 21:00:09 <Dougie187> and the memory protection
Apr 16 21:00:29 <Dougie187> wubi seems cool, but i doubt i will use it ever
Apr 16 21:00:38 <f00f-> memory protection like PaX ?
Apr 16 21:00:45 <f00f-> heh, i love kernels
Apr 16 21:00:48 <f00f-> i run 2.6.10 in production
Apr 16 21:00:53 <f00f-> and it's immune from security threats
Apr 16 21:00:59 <f00f-> intorudced in 2.6.20 range
Apr 16 21:01:05 <f00f-> grsecurity/PaX own
Apr 16 21:01:16 <Dougie187> I dont think its PaX.
Apr 16 21:01:18 <Dougie187> but i may be wrong.
Apr 16 21:01:31 <Dougie187> either way.
Apr 16 21:01:38 <Dougie187> most of the benefits you can install seperatly.
Apr 16 21:01:48 <Dougie187> oh, one other thing could be policy kit, for administrators.
Apr 16 21:02:20 <Dougie187> though i have never tried to administer ubuntu
Apr 16 21:03:27 <Dougie187> like inkscape, or ufw
Apr 16 21:04:07 <Dougie187> either way.
Apr 16 21:04:10 <Dougie187> im out.
Apr 16 21:04:12 <Dougie187> see ya
Apr 16 21:07:45 <f00f-> cheers
Apr 16 21:10:37 <jasta> yawn
Apr 16 21:14:11 <jasta> zhobbs: I did see that, but I don't quite get it.
Apr 16 21:14:22 <jasta> I mean, there's nothing concrete here.
Apr 16 21:15:04 <jasta> Also, it's unclear if they've tackled the correct problem.  Just simply connecting your phone to your PC is insufficient.
Apr 16 21:15:22 <jasta> Also, they seem to require an account so they must have some intermediate service somewhere?  That seems questionable...
Apr 16 21:16:07 <jasta> but i'm intrigued none-the-less.
Apr 16 21:20:56 <dpino> were you talking about miControl?
Apr 16 21:21:48 <jasta> what?
Apr 16 21:22:47 <dpino> this app
Apr 16 21:22:48 <dpino> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4lSGY-UvZw
Apr 16 21:23:26 <dpino> I just catch up your conversation in the middle, dunno were you guys talking about
Apr 16 21:23:45 <dpino> but it sounded like this, connecting remotely from android to a computer
Apr 16 21:25:43 <edcba> why not just hosting a website on computer ?
Apr 16 21:26:58 <edcba> except for bluetooth part maybe
Apr 16 21:30:31 <jasta> dpino: no, we were talking about my app
Apr 16 21:30:40 <jasta> though i like that thing miControl thing :)
Apr 16 21:30:41 <f00f-> love your screenshots
Apr 16 21:30:42 <f00f-> jasta
Apr 16 21:30:48 <zhobbs> jasta: agreed, not sure why you would need an account when you run the server on your own computer?
Apr 16 21:30:51 <jasta> thanks :)
Apr 16 21:31:03 <jasta> zhobbs: Right, something doesn't seem right about the way they have designed this.
Apr 16 21:31:16 <jasta> zhobbs: And it's unclear if it even exists :)
Apr 16 21:31:30 <jasta> f00f-: I still want to produce a video some time soon
Apr 16 21:31:42 <jasta> And possibly even release the thing for folks to play with
Apr 16 21:32:19 <jasta> though in order to do that i will need another week or so of development to make things a little less clunky and debug-like :)
Apr 16 21:32:36 <zhobbs> jasta: found out about it at http://androidguys.com/2008/04/16/developer-spotlight-series-7/
Apr 16 21:32:43 <jasta> mostly, improving the sync performance and making the server interact with freedesktop and put configuration up and stuff.
Apr 16 21:32:57 <dpino> jasta: love your controls, finally you made the bitmap reflection
Apr 16 21:33:02 <zhobbs> I like the answer for "Did you run into any competition with your application? Anybody else doing something like this from what you’ve seen?"
Apr 16 21:33:08 <jasta> zhobbs: I don't know about you, but I find androidguys.com annoying.  I wish it wasn't part of planetandroid.com
Apr 16 21:33:32 <jasta> dpino: Yeah, that was somewhat tricky.
Apr 16 21:33:41 <zhobbs> well they aren't technical
Apr 16 21:33:45 <jasta> And it doesn't look spectacular for all album artwork.
Apr 16 21:34:10 <jasta> zhobbs: At some point once Android starts maturing, I will remove myself from planetandroid.com just because the content is too wordy and political for me :)
Apr 16 21:34:46 <dpino> I read about it yesterday in the channel , you couldnt make it as romainguy told you in the beginning...
Apr 16 21:34:53 <zhobbs> I never really go to planet android...just have a bunch of android RSS feeds
Apr 16 21:35:11 <zhobbs> I like headlines
Apr 16 21:36:36 <jasta> dpino: No, because he was wrong about it being possible to use a shader while drawing a bitmap.
Apr 16 21:37:07 <dpino> I see, so how you make the gradient?
Apr 16 21:37:08 <jasta> Instead, he suggested I use a ComposeShader made up of a BitmapShader and my original LinearGradient shader
Apr 16 21:37:15 <jasta> and then, instead of drawing a bitmap, draw a simple rectangle.
Apr 16 21:37:43 <jasta> the paint's ComposeShader then handles drawing the image and the LinearGradient applied
Apr 16 21:37:58 <jasta> then on top of that, I have another white to black LinearGradient behind the controls bar.
Apr 16 21:38:07 <jasta> So what you're seeing is complex: there are two types of shaders being seen.
Apr 16 21:38:23 <jasta> one which is giving it a sort of water-look and another which is adding texture to the controls bar
Apr 16 21:39:23 <jasta> it's a pretty effect ;)
Apr 16 21:39:33 <jasta> and, remarkably, it is not slow.
Apr 16 21:39:41 <dpino> yeah, its cool indeed
Apr 16 21:40:10 <jasta> zhobbs: It certainly seems like his head is in the same area as mine, though I guess we'll see about the devil in the details.
Apr 16 21:40:36 <jasta> I'm still willing to bet that he tackles the problem all wrong.  Synchronizing meta data passively is very critical to providing a responsive UI.
Apr 16 21:40:51 <jasta> If any of the main UI screens require an active download, users will be pissed.
Apr 16 21:41:37 <zhobbs> jasta: does your app poll the server for updates?
Apr 16 21:41:48 <jasta> Currently, yes.  Eventually, no. :)
Apr 16 21:42:06 <jasta> I plan to have the server alert the phone via GTalk when updates are ready.  Then, the phone will connect and sync.
Apr 16 21:42:39 <zhobbs> gotcha
Apr 16 21:43:00 <jasta> zhobbs: Also, regarding his app, I think he may have taken a much too ambitious approach for the ADC, assuming he submitted.
Apr 16 21:43:02 <zhobbs> you use AlarmManager to spawn the update check or an always on service?
Apr 16 21:43:25 <jasta> i thought it best to focus on one instance, the music player, and make that work and look great.  expanding the system when it is ready.
Apr 16 21:43:39 <jasta> zhobbs: AlarmManager, though that code is disabled for the version I sent to the ADC
Apr 16 21:43:48 <jasta> since their server is unchanging, and a subsequent sync would do nothing.
Apr 16 21:44:17 <zhobbs> gotcha
Apr 16 21:44:38 <jasta> none of my services are persistent.  The playlist is the most persistent and it is scheduled to die after 15 minutes of inactivity.
Apr 16 21:44:49 <jasta> the others die immediately when they are done
Apr 16 21:45:04 <jasta> (assuming they're not connected to anything)
Apr 16 21:45:06 <zhobbs> does the playlist play the music?
Apr 16 21:45:19 <jasta> yeah, i suppose i should have called it a play queue service or something.
Apr 16 21:45:40 <jasta> but yes, it hosts the MediaPlayer, manages the play queue, abstracts through to the ContentService (which abstracts between network and cache)
Apr 16 21:46:03 <jasta> so when you click on a song to play, all that happens is mPlaylistService.enqueueAndPlay(songId);
Apr 16 21:46:32 <jasta> and there are various listeners on the playlist service to watch it fill the playback buffer, jump/advance tracks, stop, pause, etc.
Apr 16 21:46:39 <jasta> so various parts of the UI can hook in and figure out whats happening
Apr 16 21:46:47 <jasta> it's a very rich architecture.
Apr 16 21:46:59 <zhobbs> gotcha
Apr 16 21:48:31 <jasta> is your design similar?
Apr 16 21:49:53 <zhobbs> yeah
Apr 16 21:50:09 <zhobbs> well, service doesn't really edit the playlist though
Apr 16 21:50:20 <jasta> really?  how do you persist it then?
Apr 16 21:50:44 <zhobbs> the Library browser generates a playlist and then passes it to the service and the service just reads the playlist
Apr 16 21:51:10 <jasta> hmm.  that is one of the major design points of my app because it frustrates me so much about the iPod
Apr 16 21:51:17 <zhobbs> then there is a controls screen and it just makes simple "skipForward()", "puase()", "stop()" calls to the service
Apr 16 21:51:21 <jasta> that is, that the only way to manipulate playback is through predeterined playlists.
Apr 16 21:51:38 <zhobbs> jasta: not predetermined
Apr 16 21:51:56 <jasta> for example, if you long click a song in my UI, you are presented with the options "Play Now", "Play Next", "Enqueue"
Apr 16 21:51:59 <jasta> Enqueue being play last
Apr 16 21:52:37 <zhobbs> I see, long click on song/artist/album results in a "Add to existing playlist" or "Create new playlist"
Apr 16 21:52:46 <jasta> hmm
Apr 16 21:52:57 <zhobbs> I see what you mean though
Apr 16 21:52:59 <jasta> this UI is much trickier than people think
Apr 16 21:53:23 <jasta> i mean, even mine i'm not confident just yet.  i want to take a more serious look at analyzing this UI and figuring out a good flow diagram for how it should work
Apr 16 21:53:45 <jasta> i know that i dislike things about the iPod's play queue, but i don't want to over-engineer my replacement for it.
Apr 16 21:54:07 <jasta> otherwise it will be too foreign and uncomfortable for most users
Apr 16 21:54:14 <zhobbs> you got me thinking, because with my setup if the user starts to play a playlist...and then goes and adds more song to the playlist while tracks are playing the list doesn't get invalidated in the service
Apr 16 21:54:30 <zhobbs> that'll be something I'll have to fix
Apr 16 21:54:52 <jasta> do you use a listener to update your UI?
Apr 16 21:54:55 <zhobbs> yeah
Apr 16 21:55:15 <jasta> what about for position advancement in the playing track?
Apr 16 21:55:31 <jasta> i don't display that information currently.  i just didn't get time to design my own slider widget that would look nice and everything
Apr 16 21:55:31 <zhobbs> don't have a listener for that...just poll it here and there
Apr 16 21:55:46 <jasta> i intended to have a listener, but never made one because i never needed it :)
Apr 16 21:56:09 <jasta> that orange progresstextview paint effect is only found on my song selection screen right now
Apr 16 21:56:14 <jasta> eventually i'll put that in the album cover view
Apr 16 21:56:20 <zhobbs> I poll it every 4 secs and assume nothing happened unless the status changed listener fired
Apr 16 21:56:21 <jasta> i really love that effect :)
Apr 16 21:56:36 <zhobbs> room for improvement there
Apr 16 21:56:59 <jasta> where?
Apr 16 21:57:04 <jasta> i meant i like my ProgressTextView
Apr 16 21:57:06 <zhobbs> I like the slider we're using...not sure if they plan to release any screenshots/press/apks/etc
Apr 16 21:57:32 <zhobbs> jasta: room for improvement in my loop that updates the progress/duration
Apr 16 21:57:36 <jasta> oh, right.
Apr 16 21:57:45 <jasta> my player falls short on certain basic functionality
Apr 16 21:57:59 <jasta> i mention it in my README just because i had to spend so much time building the sync framework
Apr 16 21:58:16 <jasta> the first month or more of development was exclusively stuck there
Apr 16 21:58:23 <zhobbs> seeking in yours is tricker, because you have to figure out if you have that part of the song
Apr 16 21:58:43 <jasta> yeah, and implement a graceful way to choke the playback if you don't.
Apr 16 21:58:48 <zhobbs> yep
Apr 16 21:58:49 <jasta> but still want to seek
Apr 16 21:58:55 <zhobbs> I can just seek to anywhere and it'll work
Apr 16 21:59:11 <jasta> i'm very anxious to see what the next SDK has to offer.
Apr 16 21:59:19 <jasta> i bet it's gonna really shake up my app
Apr 16 22:00:30 <jerkface03> it's going to feature a bunch of api changes, thereby breaking everyones source code ;)
Apr 16 22:00:40 <zhobbs> I'd like to do something interesting with bluetooth...haven't come up with any ideas though
Apr 16 22:01:12 <jasta> i don't plan to touch that with my app.  internet or bust. :)
Apr 16 22:01:16 <jerkface03> was bt support added into m5? i thought they haven't implemented it yet
Apr 16 22:01:26 <f00f-> i cant wait to get my hands on BT
Apr 16 22:01:50 <f00f-> hopefully they support L2CAP
Apr 16 22:01:56 <zhobbs> I'm not even talking peer to peer bt, but would like to talk to a microcontroller to do something cool
Apr 16 22:02:23 <f00f-> ah you want to talk HCI
Apr 16 22:02:42 <zhobbs> X10 automation or something
Apr 16 22:03:00 <f00f-> yeah i got a module that did BT, but talked to it using an ericsson/infineon protocol
Apr 16 22:03:05 <f00f-> not quite as low level as i had liked
Apr 16 22:03:18 <jasta> zhobbs: I did think about that with my app.  Since I already go through the effort to relate the content on the phone to that on the PC
Apr 16 22:03:24 <jasta> it would make sense to let my app function as a remote control :)
Apr 16 22:03:48 <jasta> so it would do all its usual business but instead of playing on the handset, play on real speakers :)
Apr 16 22:03:54 <jasta> It would be a hit for parties, I think :)
Apr 16 22:04:12 <jasta> but that is a sort of off-the-wall idea i will almost certaily never have time for ;)
Apr 16 22:04:31 <zhobbs> yeah, exactly
Apr 16 22:04:35 <jasta> one practical feature i did want to get at though was a playlist ghosting mode, where you can "ghost" someone listening to music scrobbled to last.fm.  whatever they hear, you hear.
Apr 16 22:04:48 <jasta> so if you find someone's music you really like, you can turn them into your radio station
Apr 16 22:04:54 <zhobbs> as long as you have it in your library?
Apr 16 22:05:03 <jasta> or it's available on last.fm
Apr 16 22:05:03 <jasta> ;)
Apr 16 22:05:09 <jasta> but yes
Apr 16 22:05:36 <jasta> my gf and i would use this feature a lot.  our collections are forked from each other
Apr 16 22:05:40 <jasta> so the similarities are great.
Apr 16 22:05:58 <jasta> but she has different tastes than i do, and occassionally i like to listen to her stuff :)
Apr 16 22:06:11 <jasta> and we both listen to music constantly at work
Apr 16 22:07:22 <zhobbs> I need to be working on this for challenge II: http://plutohome.com/index.php?section=home_automation
Apr 16 22:07:59 <zhobbs> ahh, plus you can control your stuff from anywhere...
Apr 16 22:08:11 <zhobbs> over the net
Apr 16 22:09:06 <zhobbs> looks like it's open source
Apr 16 22:11:29 <zhobbs> that would be ultra geeky...your front door locks/unlocks for you when you walk up, lights on/off
Apr 16 22:13:50 <zhobbs> they probably made an Android project...they're all about open source and mobiles devices
Apr 16 22:17:10 <jasta> that stuff is cool to me
Apr 16 22:17:12 <jasta> really cool
Apr 16 22:17:39 <jasta> i would love to use my mobile to control my computer for playing music and videos :)
Apr 16 22:17:45 <jasta> and lights
Apr 16 22:18:25 <zhobbs> yeah, especially if you're going to build a new house or something...it's not that much more expensive to install the X10 lights/fans/locks
Apr 16 22:20:02 <jasta> locks...i'm not sure that's wise :)
Apr 16 22:20:35 <zhobbs> hehe, maybe not...but sometimes old fashioned forced entry is just as easy
Apr 16 22:20:42 <zhobbs> or actually easier
Apr 16 22:20:48 <zhobbs> than hacking a fancy lock
Apr 16 22:21:11 <jasta> true
Apr 16 22:21:19 <jasta> windows are always easy to break ;)
Apr 16 22:21:24 <zhobbs> yep
Apr 16 22:21:37 <jasta> though, fancy hacking could get you into a house with much bigger loot and a much better alarm system ;)
Apr 16 22:21:43 <jasta> nice and quiet too :)
Apr 16 22:22:18 <zhobbs> but if you have an electronic lock you can be notified when it's been opened from the inside when no one was home
Apr 16 22:24:07 <zhobbs> haha, if your phone got stolen all of the sudden your lights and AC would start going crazy
Apr 16 22:24:38 <jasta> i cant believe i'm still obsessively hacking on my android app
Apr 16 22:24:47 <jasta> this is retarded :)
Apr 16 22:24:59 * jasta curses Google
Apr 16 22:25:58 <zhobbs> they hooked you in
Apr 16 22:28:07 <jasta> they sure did
Apr 16 22:29:44 <davidw> ahahaah
Apr 16 22:30:07 <davidw> how much is the contest worth? 1,000,000 ?
Apr 16 22:30:24 <zhobbs> 5,000,000
Apr 16 22:32:20 <jasta> total $5mil for this one
Apr 16 22:37:53 <davidw>  / 1000 submissions, say
Apr 16 22:37:58 <davidw> $5000 per submission
Apr 16 22:38:40 <davidw> I know I would have billed a lot more for the time I spent on mine (and did bill a lot more for the time I spent on one for a client)
Apr 16 22:38:41 <ligi> davidw: good point ,-)
Apr 16 22:38:45 <davidw> so they're getting a good deal
Apr 16 22:39:11 <davidw> even if not all the submissions are really *that* good
Apr 16 22:39:13 <Bonkers> except google doesn't own the code
Apr 16 22:39:15 <davidw> plus all the publicity and stuff
Apr 16 22:39:33 <davidw> Bonkers, no, but they've grown themselves an ... "ecosystem", if you pardon the buzzword
Apr 16 22:39:52 <Bonkers> right, I'm just pointing out why the cost may seem low
Apr 16 22:40:10 <Bonkers> billing rates include the future profit potential based off the work from sales and the ilke
Apr 16 22:40:31 <Bonkers> the biller gives up sale rights in exchange for more money
Apr 16 22:40:51 <zhobbs> does google sell any software?
Apr 16 22:41:04 <zhobbs> they sell the search stuff, but that includes hardware
Apr 16 22:41:11 <Bonkers> earth
Apr 16 22:41:17 <zhobbs> true
Apr 16 22:41:21 <SUSaiyan> scetchup
Apr 16 22:41:25 <SUSaiyan> sketchup
Apr 16 22:41:26 <SUSaiyan> sorry
Apr 16 22:41:46 <Bonkers> I never considered until just now that sketchup is one letter away from ketchup
Apr 16 22:45:38 <davidw> well... the point is only that for a relatively low amount of money, they get a bunch of people creating apps for their platform
Apr 16 22:46:19 <Bonkers> right, I agree
Apr 16 22:46:22 <Bonkers> just discussing
Apr 16 22:47:39 <davidw> I'm pretty happy just to get an open source phone thing that's backed by some money and clout
Apr 16 22:48:34 <Dougie187> hell yeah
Apr 16 22:48:44 <Dougie187> i wanna be able to dump it on another phone though
Apr 16 22:49:00 <Dougie187> because im dying to get a new phone, and i want android on it, but i dont know how long i would have to wait to get it.
Apr 16 22:49:08 <Dougie187> though i hear the dream might be coming out in may
Apr 16 22:49:26 <jasta> Dougie187: That is absurd; no phone will come before the ADC is complete for sure.
Apr 16 22:49:27 <zhobbs> I don't want to be stuck with T-Mobile
Apr 16 22:49:43 <Dougie187> Yeah i dont know if its true or not.
Apr 16 22:49:47 <Dougie187> purely rumors.
Apr 16 22:49:50 <jasta> and that is some time in what, July?  I'd say a safe bet would be at least a few months after that even.
Apr 16 22:50:10 <jasta> Dougie187: It's not even a sensible rumor.  It makes literally no sense.
Apr 16 22:50:10 <zhobbs> I see phones coming out October maybe
Apr 16 22:50:16 <Dougie187> I also heard that Samsung has two models that are supposed to come out in September and December
Apr 16 22:50:22 <jasta> zhobbs: Me too, Oct/Nov
Apr 16 22:50:41 <zhobbs> in time for Christmas I guess
Apr 16 22:50:47 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 16 22:50:47 <jasta> but honestly, i would not be surprised if the platform was pushed back further, maybe even into 2009.
Apr 16 22:50:58 <zhobbs> nooooooo.........
Apr 16 22:51:06 <jasta> look at it this way
Apr 16 22:51:07 <Dougie187> Is it resonable to hope to dump Android onto another set of hardware?
Apr 16 22:51:16 <zhobbs> hopefully it makes a LOT of progress in the next couple months
Apr 16 22:51:23 <jasta> trust that Google will not want to shoot themselves in the foot.  they won't release when it's not ready.
Apr 16 22:51:33 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 16 22:51:35 <zhobbs> I don't think there's anyway that the Challenge II deadline will be in 2008
Apr 16 22:51:36 <Dougie187> google knows whats up.
Apr 16 22:51:37 <jasta> zhobbs: Well, Romain said something interesting yesterday
Apr 16 22:52:07 <jasta> zhobbs: Discussing a bug he fixed, he clarified that the bug was fixed in *a* release, not necessarily the next one.
Apr 16 22:52:24 <jasta> Which tells me Google has a large repository of code we are not seeing.
Apr 16 22:52:29 <zhobbs> I see him make that distinction a lot
Apr 16 22:52:30 <jasta> And I believe it.
Apr 16 22:53:03 <jasta> Google's given us just enough to do what we need.  But I bet they've got a platform brewing that is much more aggressive than we realize now.
Apr 16 22:53:10 <jasta> Or have seen, I should see.  I realize it ;)
Apr 16 22:53:21 <Dougie187> Do you guys think it will be feasible to put android on hardware that doesn't come with android out of the box?
Apr 16 22:54:03 <jasta> Dougie187: Presumably, but unless you are willing to suppor tthat work yourself I'd say you should ignore it.
Apr 16 22:54:07 <davidw> IT projects being delivered on time is not something I'd bet a ton of money on, Android included;-)
Apr 16 22:54:27 <davidw> especially as concerned as they have to be about quality... can't just upgrade the server on a phone
Apr 16 22:54:49 <davidw> sleep time in any case
Apr 16 22:54:57 <jasta> well actually, i'd be surprised if android did not come with tools to update the firmware easily.
Apr 16 22:55:12 <jasta> i'd bet they would even package them as utilities in the handset itself.
Apr 16 22:55:21 <jasta> hell, even Windows Mobile does that now
Apr 16 22:56:12 <jasta> and it's not like it's hard to do :)
Apr 16 22:56:17 <Dougie187> well.. heres to hoping it wont be terrible to port android to a different phone.
Apr 16 22:56:20 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 16 22:56:50 <jasta> Dougie187: I'm just frustrated by your question.  Would you be willing to explore that effort?
Apr 16 22:57:01 <jasta> Or are you just hoping someone will hand you a robust port to some device of your choice?
Apr 16 22:57:03 <Dougie187> Which question?
Apr 16 22:57:08 <Dougie187> No. I would try to get it done.
Apr 16 22:57:22 <jasta> Then yes, if you have the necessary expertise it should be very easy to do when Android is released.
Apr 16 22:57:47 <Dougie187> I guess it would have to be worth the effort, which, if android ends up being what I hope it is then it should be.
Apr 16 22:58:03 <Bonkers> I don't think you'll ever be able to just port it ot an arbitrary phone though
Apr 16 22:58:10 <Bonkers> the limitation will be the hardware, not the software
Apr 16 22:58:24 <Bonkers> phone makers don't release specs on hardware
Apr 16 22:58:25 <jasta> The only challenge is making sure the chipset is well supported on Linux
Apr 16 22:58:46 <Dougie187> Im just trying to make up my mind if its going to be worth waiting to get a new phone.
Apr 16 22:58:50 <jasta> so if the chipset is some unusual thing that Android has never worked on before, then you will have a hard task at hand.
Apr 16 22:59:14 <jasta> Dougie187: If you want to use Android, yes, it is absolutely worth getting a new phone.  Don't be ridiculous.
Apr 16 22:59:21 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 16 22:59:29 <Dougie187> well i meant waiting.
Apr 16 22:59:32 <Dougie187> I want to get a new phone.
Apr 16 22:59:42 <Dougie187> its just if i want to wait until it comes with android on it.
Apr 16 23:00:02 <jasta> As Bonkers said, porting it to some arbitrary handset is not something you want to explore right now.
Apr 16 23:00:10 <Dougie187> yeah.
Apr 16 23:01:22 <jasta> Especially since the SDK source isn't available.
Apr 16 23:01:27 <Dougie187> true.
Apr 16 23:01:38 <Dougie187> Though I wasnt thinking about now.
Apr 16 23:01:46 <Dougie187> I was thinking about after a phone with android gets release.
Apr 16 23:01:55 <jasta> But don't be silly.  Wait until it is commercially launched, explore it, and then make up your mind what value it has and what effort you want to put into projects like that.
Apr 16 23:02:00 <Dougie187> to dump it on a phone that came out before android was released
Apr 16 23:02:01 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 16 23:02:03 <jasta> No point speculating now
Apr 16 23:02:31 <Dougie187> true.
Apr 16 23:04:48 <Dougie187> i take it all of you participated in the ADC?
Apr 16 23:05:01 <Dougie187> or a lot of you at least...
Apr 16 23:06:42 <jasta> yeah, a lot of us did.
Apr 16 23:06:47 <jasta> my project is at android-five.googlecode.com
Apr 16 23:09:40 <Dougie187> Thats pretty sweet
Apr 16 23:09:46 <Dougie187> How many people worked on it with you?
Apr 16 23:09:51 <jasta> zhobbs: btw, it's only called android-five because google won't let me take five.googlecode.com.  The system is to be called Five generically.
Apr 16 23:09:54 <jasta> Dougie187: None
Apr 16 23:10:36 <Dougie187> thats pretty cool.
Apr 16 23:10:42 <Dougie187> Good luck with the competition.
Apr 16 23:10:43 <jasta> i think so :)
Apr 16 23:10:47 <Dougie187> i think its a good idea.
Apr 16 23:10:58 <Dougie187> it seems sort of like the whole slingbox idea just for digital media
Apr 16 23:10:59 <jasta> i have an 85GB music collection, so it makes sense for me :)
Apr 16 23:11:03 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 16 23:11:11 <Dougie187> does it stream?
Apr 16 23:11:15 <jasta> of course
Apr 16 23:11:27 <jasta> currently there is no search support, though i am adding it for the next round of the challenge
Apr 16 23:11:36 <Dougie187> thats awesome
Apr 16 23:12:03 <zhobbs> jasta: 10-4 on the naming convention...is there a google code project named "five"
Apr 16 23:12:14 <jasta> zhobbs: no, but there is a sourceforge one with that name
Apr 16 23:12:20 <jasta> and so googlecode won't release five to me :\
Apr 16 23:12:30 <jasta> the five.sf.net author would have to authorize, but he's AWOL so i don't know what to do
Apr 16 23:12:31 <zhobbs> really?  it checks sf?
Apr 16 23:12:34 <jasta> yeah
Apr 16 23:12:39 <zhobbs> wow, that's smart
Apr 16 23:12:53 <jasta> maybe if i win the challenge i can ask google to kindly give me the name :)
Apr 16 23:12:54 <zhobbs> will encourage people to transfer over
Apr 16 23:13:51 <jasta> yeah, it's a great feature, but it has one huge problem
Apr 16 23:13:58 <jasta> they don't check their e-mail. :)
Apr 16 23:14:16 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 16 23:14:17 <jasta> i've e-mailed the address it tells me to use several times to request that my project is sufficiently distinct to this dead one that i can use the name
Apr 16 23:14:19 <Dougie187> that is an issue
Apr 16 23:14:20 <zhobbs> Five is a java Go game?
Apr 16 23:14:24 <Dougie187> Good luck with everything.
Apr 16 23:14:29 <Dougie187> Ill be back later.
Apr 16 23:15:58 <zhobbs> or is Five a jabber IM client? weird
Apr 16 23:16:57 <jasta> zhobbs: yeah, you noticed that too eh?
Apr 16 23:17:09 <jasta> there seems to be 3 projects here
Apr 16 23:17:27 <jasta> the java game, and then some project with a different name that has space as "five"
Apr 16 23:17:35 <jasta> 2 projects, i meant :)
Apr 16 23:48:07 <Dougie187> i am back
Apr 16 23:49:18 <Dougie187> jasta: how come you didn't have anyone else work with you on the project?
Apr 16 23:49:45 <acsia> morning!
Apr 17 00:12:36 <jasta> Dougie187: Because I didn't want to spend time looking for other developers.  That time was better spent simply programming.
Apr 17 00:13:08 <Dougie187> Tou;che
Apr 17 00:13:11 <Dougie187> '*
Apr 17 00:13:28 <jasta> it will be open source soon enough, so i won't have to search for developers
Apr 17 00:14:37 <Dougie187> when does it become open source?
Apr 17 00:15:05 <jasta> in a couple of weeks
Apr 17 00:16:38 <Dougie187> I didnt think it would be come open source until the ADC was over.
Apr 17 00:17:08 <jasta> why not?  only the qualifying round winners can compete
Apr 17 00:17:23 <jasta> and i have no reason to hide my code from them, so long as none of them are in the same category of app
Apr 17 00:17:26 <jasta> and even still, i dont care
Apr 17 00:18:22 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 17 00:18:35 <jasta> however i have good reason to begin eliciting contributors.
Apr 17 00:18:52 <Dougie187> so in a couple of weeks you will find out if you are one of the lucky 50?
Apr 17 00:18:58 <jasta> yeah
Apr 17 00:19:04 <Dougie187> thats pretty sweet
Apr 17 00:20:22 <Dougie187> i would have tried to compete, but i had no ideas that i felt were worth the effort
Apr 17 00:24:29 <Dougie187> what all do you have left to implement for your project?
Apr 17 00:25:11 <donomo> anyone made a world of warcraft clone for android yet?
Apr 17 00:25:12 <jasta> *lots*
Apr 17 00:25:42 <jasta> i say that android calc application and it made me think...
Apr 17 00:25:46 <jasta> someone should try to dethrone TI :)
Apr 17 00:25:50 <acsia> fsck it, I don t want to sleep
Apr 17 00:25:52 <acsia> i want to code
Apr 17 00:25:55 <jasta> how awesome would that be if android had a full featured graphing calculator app?
Apr 17 00:26:13 <jasta> so college and high school students could just use their phone :)
Apr 17 00:26:18 <donomo> jasta: that would be cool
Apr 17 00:26:22 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 17 00:26:24 <Dougie187> dump in gnuplot
Apr 17 00:26:42 <jasta> android devices could even take advantage of a powerful gpu
Apr 17 00:27:05 <acsia> I am waiting for compiz for android
Apr 17 00:27:23 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 17 00:27:25 <acsia> I am thinking about giving it a try even thought that I am not to keen on UI
Apr 17 00:27:39 <acsia> programming
Apr 17 00:27:44 <Dougie187> compiz is pretty sweet
Apr 17 00:27:47 <jasta> why would you port compiz rather than just hack the android UI?
Apr 17 00:27:56 <jasta> eventually it will be open source
Apr 17 00:28:00 <acsia> not port it but similar ideas
Apr 17 00:28:00 <jasta> that would be a good point to start hacking it :)
Apr 17 00:28:03 <acsia> like cube 3d
Apr 17 00:28:22 <acsia> I was thinking about maybe a thread based UI
Apr 17 00:28:29 <jasta> bbl
Apr 17 00:29:04 <acsia> like we have 5 activities that are onPause() before shutting down, maybe having the UI behave on that
Apr 17 00:29:24 <acsia> like the alt tab of compiz on the 5 alive activities
Apr 17 01:04:43 <Kraln> heh, x10 would be interesting
Apr 17 01:04:53 <Kraln> have your phone turn on your lights when you get within five minutes of home
Apr 17 01:05:01 <Kraln> have it turn up the heat when you get within a half hour
Apr 17 01:05:10 <Kraln> have it turn everything off automatically as you leave for work...
Apr 17 01:05:20 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 17 01:05:30 <romainguy_> you can already do some of these with Salling Clicker
Apr 17 01:05:44 <romainguy_> I used to use it to turn on the music when I would come home
Apr 17 02:16:37 <jasta> romainguy_: Systems like this that aren't open are useless to me ;)
Apr 17 02:17:36 <jasta> romainguy_: hey, i had a question actually
Apr 17 02:18:14 <jasta> are we expected to try to manipulate the activity stack when our application has circular navigation?
Apr 17 02:18:49 <jasta> that is, activity A can start B, but B can also start A.  So the user could conceivably get themselves in a mess using the back button.
Apr 17 02:19:35 <jasta> what would be appropriate for my app would be to simply start B, but remove any existing entries in the activity stack prior to doing so
Apr 17 02:19:40 <jasta> and the same for A
Apr 17 02:20:00 <jasta> but is that something that we should expect to be introduced into the activity manager?
Apr 17 02:21:44 <jasta> also, how would i manage that myself? :)
Apr 17 02:57:53 <poffy_> Hm
Apr 17 02:58:10 <poffy_> I'm getting confused by the ADC phases
Apr 17 02:58:17 <poffy_> 1 is the one that just happened
Apr 17 02:58:24 <poffy_> Can anyone submit an app for number two?
Apr 17 02:58:30 <poffy_> or is it just top 100 from 1?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 17 02:59:57 2008