**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 19 02:59:57 2008 Apr 19 04:23:22 howdy folks Apr 19 04:24:07 anyone have their emulator running? Apr 19 04:26:46 muhaha i think i found a workaround for this dalvik bug :D Apr 19 04:30:05 anyone familiar with the time setup in sqlite? Apr 19 04:30:10 its GMT right? Apr 19 04:30:17 not the local offset? Apr 19 04:32:46 Sat Apr 19 09:54:02 IST 2008 Apr 19 04:33:08 that is what your sqlite produces? Apr 19 04:33:40 that's my shorthand for good morning Apr 19 04:33:44 haha Apr 19 04:33:51 good morning Apr 19 04:33:57 mornin michaelnovakjr_ Apr 19 04:34:13 darnit i cant switch screens in ssh on android Apr 19 04:34:20 i'll be back... low battery .... that emulator chews up my laptop battery Apr 19 04:34:21 doesnt have a notion of ctrl+a Apr 19 04:34:50 umdk1d4: you mean in android Apr 19 04:34:58 right Apr 19 04:35:24 don't think any keys are available yet Apr 19 04:35:33 also screen refreshes are slooooow Apr 19 04:36:00 might be an emulator problem Apr 19 04:36:12 im connected to my server ssh and can resume my screen, but cant switch to other screens Apr 19 04:36:27 as expected, because there really isnt a "ctrl+a" key combo on android Apr 19 04:36:38 i think there is aplace to change that key seq in screen config Apr 19 04:36:49 im typing all this on the emulator ;) Apr 19 04:36:55 using irssi in screen Apr 19 04:37:13 cool **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 19 04:56:18 2008 Apr 19 05:49:12 As Silicon Alley Insider noted, Google has found a way to outsource the cost of Android programming — 1,788 entries thus far, $5 million bucks, working about to about $2,800 per application. Apr 19 05:50:13 people are voting for WIFI army, when they haven't submitted Apr 19 05:51:51 voting where? Apr 19 05:52:02 in the forums Apr 19 05:52:10 any weatherphone votes :) Apr 19 05:52:23 yeah, i'm voting it Apr 19 05:52:29 :) Apr 19 05:52:33 what's the link? Apr 19 05:52:43 it would be in challenge forum Apr 19 05:52:45 prediction Apr 19 05:53:01 oh cool Apr 19 05:53:39 your url michael? Apr 19 05:53:53 http://code.google.com/p/weatherphone Apr 19 05:53:58 ok Apr 19 06:06:50 what is wifi army? Apr 19 06:06:59 its a game Apr 19 06:07:12 multi-user lbs game Apr 19 06:07:35 its not in the challenge? Apr 19 06:07:44 no Apr 19 06:07:54 any reason? Apr 19 06:08:06 they want a real device Apr 19 06:08:28 heh Apr 19 06:08:31 ADC 2 Apr 19 06:08:33 those guys are not for challenges, they are going after the real markets Apr 19 06:08:44 so focusing on iphone/symbian Apr 19 06:08:54 very good Apr 19 06:09:04 adc is great to get a jumpstart Apr 19 06:10:09 right, and wifi army already has investors Apr 19 06:10:19 gggrrrr Apr 19 06:10:25 * f00f- checks Apr 19 06:10:29 i doubt my app will ever get investors Apr 19 06:10:47 why? Apr 19 06:11:02 its not a selling product Apr 19 06:11:05 its free Apr 19 06:11:26 muthu, investors? Apr 19 06:11:29 i thought it was a lame idea Apr 19 06:11:30 google search is free :) Apr 19 06:11:42 seriously, you go for the market Apr 19 06:11:44 investors are for people with huge needs Apr 19 06:11:47 key is to get users first Apr 19 06:11:50 true, but advertising Apr 19 06:12:04 or people who are all talk and no action Apr 19 06:12:07 some apps require heavy infrastructure to be setup Apr 19 06:12:08 muthu: i have huge needs once going 100% live Apr 19 06:12:14 that's me :) Apr 19 06:12:21 no, your app must demand it Apr 19 06:12:29 look at your app requirments Apr 19 06:12:40 my app pushes a LOT out to the client Apr 19 06:12:43 reduces server demands Apr 19 06:12:43 the server side requirements are certainly there Apr 19 06:12:51 there's somehting tobe said about thick-clients Apr 19 06:13:04 now that android supports a host of features Apr 19 06:13:07 might as well push it out Apr 19 06:13:12 anyone can go searching for investors.. your choice Apr 19 06:13:14 similar problem i see with this web 2.0 garbage Apr 19 06:13:21 people try to push everything to the server Apr 19 06:13:26 which is a step in the wrong direction Apr 19 06:13:37 although it depends on the application, of course Apr 19 06:13:52 right, depends on apps Apr 19 06:14:01 of course Apr 19 06:14:19 but people just blindly assume thin clients nowadays Apr 19 06:14:39 also, it's important to support disconnected operation Apr 19 06:15:00 right in local mode Apr 19 06:15:21 yeah. with android it's easy :) Apr 19 06:15:27 got a nice SQLite database Apr 19 06:15:39 gotta love the nice SQLite Apr 19 06:15:53 usually yeah Apr 19 06:16:15 i'm having to revamp my O(n!) algorithm Apr 19 06:16:18 to cache SQL data upfront Apr 19 06:16:50 since i do about 100 q/min in worst case Apr 19 06:17:10 f00f-: what you do? Apr 19 06:17:30 generate schedules given certain constraints and timetables Apr 19 06:17:45 great Apr 19 06:25:31 There are other choice than "on server" and "on client"... Apr 19 06:25:47 mihoshi: like what? Apr 19 06:26:03 On other client :) Apr 19 06:26:13 hah Apr 19 06:26:30 bluetooth ice cream man Apr 19 06:26:49 for shore Apr 19 06:26:51 lol Apr 19 06:26:53 I was thinking more about decentralised networks... Apr 19 06:26:55 icecream man Apr 19 06:27:00 haha Apr 19 06:27:17 mihoshi: can you explain Apr 19 06:27:19 ? Apr 19 06:31:28 Like torrent:) Apr 19 06:31:55 right Apr 19 06:32:07 No central server, but most client can work kinda as a server Apr 19 06:32:20 peer to peer Apr 19 06:33:57 decentralized is the way to go Apr 19 08:11:43 great, more libsyncml bugs :( Apr 19 08:41:31 re Apr 19 08:41:56 hi ligi Apr 19 08:42:09 aloha muthu Apr 19 08:42:43 now its weekend & i can do android stuff again ,-) Apr 19 08:43:00 what do you do, normal? Apr 19 08:43:10 muthu: j2me Apr 19 08:43:26 hmm.. which one you like? Apr 19 08:43:35 def Android Apr 19 08:43:39 muthu: http://www.smart4mobile.com/ Apr 19 08:43:44 cool Apr 19 08:44:38 site looks great Apr 19 08:44:45 thanx Apr 19 08:44:59 porting to android? Apr 19 08:45:19 muthu: yes - i'll generate this too Apr 19 08:45:26 muthu: i have a code generator Apr 19 08:45:36 woah Apr 19 08:45:44 j2me to android - that would be great Apr 19 08:45:53 muthu: actually its generating from xml to j2me and from xml to javascript Apr 19 08:46:01 made my diploma about this Apr 19 08:46:08 ok.. so xml to android then Apr 19 08:46:12 yes Apr 19 08:46:19 wow Apr 19 08:46:29 made my own abstraction layer Apr 19 08:46:54 sounds good Apr 19 08:46:57 too many bugs@j2me phones -> i needed an automatism to handle this Apr 19 08:47:27 hmm Apr 19 08:52:10 muthu: du u code for work? Apr 19 08:52:32 i am managin my company Apr 19 08:52:38 http://mobeegal.in Apr 19 08:52:54 a little active in coding Apr 19 08:53:03 totally part time Apr 19 08:54:13 muthu: hehe - search engine - if the google judges wanna to hear this ;-) Apr 19 08:54:31 did not submit this yet Apr 19 08:54:41 ah Apr 19 08:54:42 k Apr 19 08:54:52 did another with a friend of mine Apr 19 08:54:57 a cooking app Apr 19 08:55:01 :) Apr 19 08:55:03 muthu: adc II ? Apr 19 08:55:09 probably Apr 19 08:55:15 cooking roxx Apr 19 08:55:16 but bigger visions for mobeegal Apr 19 08:55:21 oh yea Apr 19 08:55:33 ours must be the best cooking app submitted! Apr 19 08:55:56 especialy indian food - Tandoori Chicken iss my favorite! Apr 19 08:56:03 oh yeah Apr 19 08:56:06 kebabs Apr 19 08:56:27 ;-) Apr 19 08:56:34 biriyani Apr 19 08:56:34 dosa Apr 19 08:56:34 roti Apr 19 08:56:42 tell me one german dish, i must try Apr 19 08:57:01 muthu: Bratwurst mit Sauerkraut Apr 19 08:57:12 ok, i'll remember Apr 19 08:57:17 bms Apr 19 08:57:19 muthu: had it yesterday with my old studend kollegs Apr 19 08:57:30 what is it? Apr 19 08:58:02 grilling meat Apr 19 08:58:09 love it Apr 19 08:58:20 its getting summer here Apr 19 08:58:30 want to come for that beer festival Apr 19 08:58:34 so making a fire outside and put meat over it Apr 19 08:58:39 muthu: dont do this! Apr 19 08:58:43 yummy! Apr 19 08:58:52 why? Apr 19 08:58:54 muthu: you dont wanna see it Apr 19 08:59:04 * ligi hates beer Apr 19 08:59:07 beer festival? Apr 19 08:59:21 ligi: really? you don't drink? Apr 19 08:59:48 muthu: may one glas of wine / day - mostly one per month Apr 19 08:59:58 ok Apr 19 09:00:21 muthu: thats my kind of festival: http://www.rcmovie.de/video/0e8b06d1204a171010b3/Flying-Objects-CCC-2007 Apr 19 09:00:56 i know Apr 19 09:01:22 you seem to be a UFO guy ;) Apr 19 09:01:30 yes Apr 19 09:01:32 !-) Apr 19 09:01:46 i like crazy gadgeds Apr 19 09:01:58 * davidw is kind of tired of beer - that's all they drink here Apr 19 09:02:11 davidw: where is here? Apr 19 09:02:13 davidw: what you drink? Apr 19 09:02:28 wine Apr 19 09:02:30 austria Apr 19 09:02:44 wine is great, but we don't get decent ones in india Apr 19 09:02:58 Club Mate for ever Apr 19 09:03:01 !!-) Apr 19 09:03:05 we have "wine shops" - selling all kinds of liquour Apr 19 09:03:32 beer is nice when it's hot out Apr 19 09:03:36 but it's not often hot here Apr 19 09:03:49 right Apr 19 09:03:57 beer is great in chennai Apr 19 09:04:03 hot & humid Apr 19 09:04:16 *shudder* Apr 19 09:04:41 weekend.. yay! Apr 19 09:04:47 need to take my family out, first Apr 19 09:36:53 well hey that's not too bad, got the sync time down to 7m. Apr 19 09:37:03 still more room for improvement though :) Apr 19 09:39:35 wow, cool Apr 19 09:39:42 make it 30 sec Apr 19 09:45:41 and that includes downloading the 300x300 album artwork Apr 19 09:45:45 haven't even started that yet Apr 19 09:50:34 well at least i have wbxml support in here now Apr 19 09:52:11 have any of you guys looked at this java phone me stuff? Apr 19 09:56:12 jasta: Is syncing done in background? Apr 19 09:59:29 In a way :) Apr 19 09:59:46 It is implemented by a service, which generally runs away from the user's attention Apr 19 09:59:59 but the first time the system is installed, it will not permit you to use it until the data is synchronized Apr 19 10:00:31 which is the case i'm trying to optimize. normal syncing would complete in a matter of seconds Apr 19 10:00:41 and would be away from the user's attention completely Apr 19 10:05:17 perfect. i got it to 5m. i'm leaving it there for a while :) Apr 19 10:05:36 it was 36m before i optimized any of this ;) Apr 19 10:06:32 now it's time to work on the server Apr 19 10:06:44 i'd like to have a GNOME GUI built by next weekend Apr 19 10:09:13 dammit.... I can't believe how screwy applets/firefox are Apr 19 10:09:16 anyway, for now, sleep Apr 19 14:25:54 hola androiders Apr 19 14:53:47 re Apr 19 14:56:04 Is kxml2 dom parser better than standard java one? Apr 19 15:28:42 heyo Apr 19 15:29:23 just wondering, its possible, or reliable, these days to flash a different OS on a PDA/pocket PC /smartphone? Apr 19 15:31:09 i want to buy a particular pda, which comes with windows mobile 6.1 professional, and i was thinking in installing android on it if possible. Apr 19 15:31:40 is this a stupid question? Apr 19 15:59:49 how r u guys planning to earn off ur apps ? i mean r u going alone or subscribing to something like SlideME ? Apr 19 16:03:01 I m makin the moneyz Apr 19 16:03:36 I plan to attach it to resume and get a work in a sane programming company... Apr 19 16:05:36 hmm Apr 19 16:05:40 May be Google will make some service for selling apps, btw. Like Steam... Apr 19 16:06:31 May be somewone make a client for such service for ADC :) Apr 19 16:06:57 there r couple of those clients already Apr 19 16:07:13 Urls, please:) Apr 19 16:07:16 i know of trackdroid , slideme and droidstor Apr 19 16:07:34 Oh, as I expected:) Apr 19 16:08:29 there will be lots more when the phones r out Apr 19 16:08:36 Thanks Apr 19 16:09:46 This thing goes over the edge somewhat... Does Android really need dozens of equivalent apps? Apr 19 16:10:52 competition is always good. Apr 19 16:11:04 Or may be Google will select some and buy, to preinstall on the Android... Apr 19 16:11:32 i think that decision will be with HTC Apr 19 16:11:52 HTC? Apr 19 16:12:27 they r supposed to come out with the first set of android phones. Apr 19 16:13:28 What HTC means, exactly? Apr 19 16:14:26 high tech computers i suppose, Apr 19 16:15:29 Ah, HTC like in "HTC's Android Handset Coming 6 May" :) Apr 19 16:15:40 yes Apr 19 16:45:29 i'm feeling pretty good about this 1788 number Apr 19 16:46:04 rhett: ;-) Apr 19 16:46:09 rhett: expected more? Apr 19 16:46:23 yeah Apr 19 16:46:31 i thought maybe closer to 9k Apr 19 16:47:03 9k apps is pretty much Apr 19 16:47:59 rhett: what have u submitted? Apr 19 16:48:21 just 1 app Apr 19 16:49:05 i think we have a pretty good shot. We should really start working for the potential finalist awards though Apr 19 16:49:13 i'd like to know how that is going to work out Apr 19 16:49:24 ;-) Apr 19 16:49:48 what kind of app? Apr 19 16:49:51 did you submit some, ligi? Apr 19 16:50:15 rhett: yes: http://www.mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/DUBwise Apr 19 16:51:49 our app is secret for the time being :( Apr 19 16:52:10 secret suxx sorry Apr 19 16:52:12 ^^ Apr 19 16:52:24 open stuff roxx Apr 19 16:52:27 ;-) Apr 19 16:52:54 well, we might still be open source Apr 19 16:53:07 ah k Apr 19 16:53:11 it depends on android's distribution model, which is secret as well Apr 19 16:53:18 lol Apr 19 16:55:10 rhett: can u say what type of app it is? Apr 19 16:56:05 it's a specialized personal organizer Apr 19 16:56:17 ah ok Apr 19 16:56:50 not really a geek toy, but there is a market for it in the general population, and it doesn't exist yet Apr 19 16:57:06 i doubt there was another entry that did the same thing Apr 19 16:57:19 me 2 Apr 19 16:57:36 haha, you don't even know the app Apr 19 16:57:45 no for my app Apr 19 16:57:53 that ther is no other like it Apr 19 16:57:54 ^^ Apr 19 16:58:25 but i think i wont get passed round #1 cuz noone can really test/use my app Apr 19 16:58:52 they wont have the device Apr 19 16:59:17 wonder how the enkin dudes solved this issue Apr 19 18:12:06 Hmm, is progress bar, going both ways (because it shows number of remaining resources to load, and some resources can queue more resources to load) worse, then just indefinite progress bar? Apr 19 18:12:31 what do you mean? Apr 19 18:12:36 you want it to countdown? Apr 19 18:12:48 you can but that's a bad idea :) Apr 19 18:12:57 why don't you make it show the number of resources loaded instead Apr 19 18:13:37 Like, 1-1/log(loaded)? Apr 19 18:13:58 or loaded/total :) Apr 19 18:14:54 Problem is that I don't know total beforehand. But I can use "loaded + known remained" instead... Apr 19 18:15:55 And make sure that it is never reduces... Apr 19 18:31:06 Hmm, updating title seems to be a long operation... Resource loading goes times faster, if I update status in title only once in half of second, instead of after each resource loaded. Apr 19 19:51:08 any killer app released for Android yet? Apr 19 20:00:32 hap: http://www.enkin.net/ is pretty cool Apr 19 20:12:02 umdk1d3: But is not original. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality Apr 19 20:15:36 umdk1d3: looks good Apr 19 20:16:17 Yes, impressive fake:) Just like WiFi army... Apr 19 20:16:55 is that fake ? Apr 19 20:16:57 ah too bad Apr 19 20:19:38 There is nothing in Android API that supports reading phone's orientation. Apr 19 20:22:05 enkin was developed with external devices Apr 19 20:22:16 you even see them in the video Apr 19 20:22:54 "About the sensors: They provide absolute values. Accelometers give a g-vector and digital compasses give magnetic north which is enough to compute heading, pitch and roll values to orientate." Apr 19 20:23:47 Cool if that. Let's hope Android device will have such sensors as well:) Apr 19 20:24:55 true true, but you gotta admit its pretty sweet Apr 19 20:25:03 and it hasnt been done on a phone before Apr 19 20:25:20 very few ideas are truly original Apr 19 20:26:17 plenty ideas are original Apr 19 20:26:30 if there weren't originals who would people copy? Apr 19 20:26:50 oh you're so intelligent! Apr 19 20:26:57 thanks Apr 19 20:27:59 me too Apr 19 20:28:03 i just don t have time to make videos Apr 19 20:28:20 did you write an android app? Apr 19 20:28:26 yup Apr 19 20:28:37 and it does not need external devices Apr 19 20:28:47 most don't Apr 19 20:29:21 mine displays 'Hello hap', but i m looking how to improve it, like print Hap with uppercase instead Apr 19 20:29:30 michaelnovakjr: you like correcting people :P Apr 19 20:29:33 would look way better Apr 19 20:29:46 not correcting, just telling the reality Apr 19 20:30:28 maybe a text input for choose the name it displays would be off cool Apr 19 20:30:36 out of all the android apps that weve seen, how many are just porting an idea to android, with some extra features sprinkled in? Apr 19 20:30:44 *an existing idea Apr 19 20:31:03 mine application is a new idea developed on android and will be ported to other devices Apr 19 20:31:04 well I haven't seen a Hello application for a long time Apr 19 20:31:07 my* not min Apr 19 20:31:08 ee Apr 19 20:31:19 so i d say my application is not a port Apr 19 20:31:26 michaelnovakjr: good for you, but im asking about all the applications weve seen in general Apr 19 20:31:42 how are we supposed to know Apr 19 20:31:44 for a good random sample, say all the apps listed at http://www.helloandroid.com/ Apr 19 20:31:51 umdk1d3: well it s always porting an operating system, so it kind of sucks from the beginning. Apr 19 20:31:53 Is universal emulator for tabletop games a new idea? Apr 19 20:31:54 you tell us then Apr 19 20:32:16 theres 1788 of them and less then 200 on hello android Apr 19 20:32:20 michaelnovakjr: isn't commercial forbidden here ? Apr 19 20:32:28 commerical? Apr 19 20:32:29 hap: No Apr 19 20:32:37 michaelnovakjr: true, but i think we can assume its an accurate sample Apr 19 20:32:46 hap: Unless they are copyright-infrigment as well Apr 19 20:33:01 mihoshi: No with uppercase, how did you do that from Android ? Maybe could you help me improving my hello application Apr 19 20:33:05 assume how? there are quite a bit of NDA apps that were submitted Apr 19 20:33:32 * hap leaves by the backdoor Apr 19 20:33:47 michaelnovakjr: so the argument in the reverse direction, how do you know about all these NDA apps, and that they make up a good segment of those submitted? Apr 19 20:34:11 because if you were in here before the adc you'd see how many people stated their apps are ND Apr 19 20:34:12 A Apr 19 20:34:44 I'd like to see a way to watch streamed videos from usenet binaries (legal ones only) so I don t have to sleep on the way home Apr 19 20:34:47 ...ive been in here awhile, under a diff nick most of the time Apr 19 20:34:49 Apr 19 20:35:13 umdk1d3: me too, i used to be nicknamed 'nickserv' Apr 19 20:35:22 but some assholes took it over Apr 19 20:35:24 ... Apr 19 20:35:27 what argument.... you asked a question.... if people had original ideas they mention them..... if not how are we supposed to speak for anyone else Apr 19 20:40:10 maybe something about pr0n has not been done Apr 19 20:40:42 that Accelometers could finaly be used Apr 19 21:36:05 hi! Apr 19 21:37:16 anyone here? Apr 19 21:38:10 can I do android development using Visual Studio 2005? Apr 19 21:38:43 file new projecT? Apr 19 21:38:56 parti: huh? Apr 19 21:39:35 convivial: Technically you can do it in notepad as well... Apr 19 21:39:36 do you have vs2005? i dont but i think Apr 19 21:39:38 its no Apr 19 21:40:04 well, google will have to provide some kind of plugin for vs2005 Apr 19 21:40:23 and some money for me Apr 19 21:40:25 Is vs2005 free? Apr 19 21:40:39 No Apr 19 21:40:53 but Nokia provides free plugins for VS2005 Apr 19 21:41:34 I don't like eclipse Apr 19 21:41:46 Well, may be Google will, may be no. I hvane't noticed much demand before... Apr 19 21:42:16 is there a sdk forum? Apr 19 21:42:34 http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/ral/603028751.html Apr 19 21:42:36 err Apr 19 21:42:40 wrong channel, but still funny Apr 19 21:43:10 found it Apr 19 21:58:30 can an android app intercept sms messages? Apr 19 22:01:33 nevermind, I found it. Apr 19 22:01:58 heck, i'll just read the manual... no one here helping anyways. hoping to generate conversation and help at same time but nevermind :) Apr 19 23:22:12 How can I precompile a sqlite query, that returns results? SQLiteStatement doesn't have methods thatreturn Cursor... Apr 19 23:23:07 Or it is not yet implemented? Apr 19 23:26:45 SQLite is amazingly gimped on Android :( No user functions, no real precompiled queries, no callbacks... Apr 19 23:32:38 why do you want to precompile a query Apr 19 23:34:40 To speed up execution Apr 19 23:35:13 lol? Apr 19 23:35:22 you are talking about minimal gains Apr 19 23:35:41 Minimal gains, multiplied by maximal numbers Apr 19 23:36:01 well executing thousands of sql queries on android is hardly a good idea, precompiled or not Apr 19 23:36:09 rework your system Apr 19 23:37:44 Java is not terribly fast either... Apr 19 23:37:49