**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 29 02:59:58 2008
Apr 29 04:27:18 <muthu> mobeegal demo today.. woohooo!
Apr 29 05:01:33 <muthu> all the actions are in the forums apparently
Apr 29 05:01:44 <f00f-> agreed
Apr 29 05:01:50 <f00f-> who is this incognito guy?
Apr 29 05:02:00 <muthu> i have my suspects
Apr 29 05:02:12 <f00f-> guy in android-challenge that has the name Incognito
Apr 29 05:02:13 <muthu> my search is not over yet ;)
Apr 29 05:02:17 <f00f-> heh
Apr 29 05:02:22 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 05:02:27 <muthu> dont know
Apr 29 05:02:31 <muthu> he says he doesn't come here
Apr 29 05:03:10 <f00f-> seems like an cocky over-confident know-it-all judging from his few posts i've read
Apr 29 05:03:23 <muthu> must be an experienced fellow
Apr 29 05:03:28 <f00f-> sounds like it
Apr 29 05:03:37 <muthu> right
Apr 29 05:26:46 <muthu> http://mobilecrunch.com/2008/04/24/buzzd-secures-series-a-funding/
Apr 29 05:55:09 <muthu> droids, are you awake?
Apr 29 05:55:16 <michaelnovakjr> i am
Apr 29 05:55:22 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 05:55:28 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: you are always awake
Apr 29 05:55:29 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 29 05:55:31 <michaelnovakjr> i know
Apr 29 05:55:43 <michaelnovakjr> i am working on that :)
Apr 29 05:55:44 <muthu> weatherphone is keeping you awake ;)
Apr 29 05:55:48 <michaelnovakjr> wget
Apr 29 05:56:19 <muthu> i'm wondering when Android would be opensource
Apr 29 05:56:34 <muthu> so we can port it to our own little mobile phones
Apr 29 05:56:49 <michaelnovakjr> when it is released i imagine
Apr 29 05:56:57 <romainguy___> be patient :)
Apr 29 05:57:04 <muthu> romainguy_: cool
Apr 29 05:57:12 <muthu> the reason is.. i'm getting tons of enquiries
Apr 29 05:57:29 <muthu> and i'm saying the same thing.. be patient.
Apr 29 05:57:32 <muthu> :)
Apr 29 05:58:16 <muthu> one thing for sure
Apr 29 05:58:28 <muthu> if google maintains its orginal vision for android
Apr 29 05:58:43 <muthu> android will be running in every mobile device possible
Apr 29 05:59:13 <muthu> it should also run on very low end devices, imho
Apr 29 06:01:36 <muthu> i'm getting a feeling, i have unearthed something HUGE
Apr 29 06:07:50 <michaelnovakjr> muthu what have you unearthed?
Apr 29 06:08:17 <muthu> if i said it it would be a shameless plug
Apr 29 06:08:23 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:08:30 <muthu> http://mobeegal.in
Apr 29 06:08:58 <muthu> i have spammed this channel with enough of mobeegal already!!
Apr 29 06:09:16 <muthu> but there you have it
Apr 29 06:09:47 <muthu> darn, the forum folks are keeping me buys
Apr 29 06:09:57 <muthu> *busy
Apr 29 06:10:27 <muthu> jasta: where you been?
Apr 29 06:10:31 <michaelnovakjr> smart
Apr 29 06:10:54 <michaelnovakjr> i dig it
Apr 29 06:11:13 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: cool
Apr 29 06:11:27 <muthu> seriously it seems to pique people's interest
Apr 29 06:11:50 <michaelnovakjr> i am curious to explore the interface
Apr 29 06:12:02 <muthu> very early days, though
Apr 29 06:12:19 <michaelnovakjr> how come you chose 6/30 for release?
Apr 29 06:12:23 <michaelnovakjr> expecting handsets by then?
Apr 29 06:12:36 <muthu> may be
Apr 29 06:12:58 <muthu> but its only v1.0
Apr 29 06:13:06 <muthu> so must be demoable to interested folks
Apr 29 06:13:14 <muthu> my plan is find a carrier to adopt it
Apr 29 06:13:22 <michaelnovakjr> true.... will you be releasing it even if there are no handsets at that time?
Apr 29 06:13:25 <muthu> and bundle it with their offerings
Apr 29 06:13:52 <muthu> yes
Apr 29 06:13:55 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Apr 29 06:14:04 <muthu> to get feedback
Apr 29 06:14:07 <muthu> from real users
Apr 29 06:16:03 <muthu> if you want your product to be successful, get it out there in front of users
Apr 29 06:16:06 <muthu> so that's the plan
Apr 29 06:16:12 <michaelnovakjr> good plan
Apr 29 06:16:27 <muthu> i have specific dates
Apr 29 06:16:31 <muthu> and can't afford to miss them
Apr 29 06:17:06 <michaelnovakjr> sounds like you have it all figured out :)
Apr 29 06:17:18 <muthu> oh yes
Apr 29 06:17:23 <muthu> figured it out
Apr 29 06:17:48 <muthu> and also know its a tough road ahead
Apr 29 06:17:55 <muthu> the struggle is with the team
Apr 29 06:18:04 <muthu> you can't have your dream team, can you?
Apr 29 06:18:10 <michaelnovakjr> sure you can
Apr 29 06:18:15 <muthu> unless you are Google!
Apr 29 06:18:16 <michaelnovakjr> that just takes time :)
Apr 29 06:18:23 <muthu> money
Apr 29 06:18:26 <michaelnovakjr> finding the right people is very hard
Apr 29 06:18:30 <muthu> if you have funding you can
Apr 29 06:18:34 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 29 06:18:41 <muthu> i've spend all mine
Apr 29 06:18:53 <muthu> so working with the constrains as of now
Apr 29 06:18:54 <michaelnovakjr> i never had any to begin with :)
Apr 29 06:18:59 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:19:02 <muthu> good problem to have
Apr 29 06:19:02 <michaelnovakjr> running on pennies over at weatherphone :)
Apr 29 06:19:26 <muthu> right, doesn't make sense to spend a huge fortune
Apr 29 06:19:35 <muthu> you'll have to keep it small
Apr 29 06:19:40 <muthu> when you start, then slowly expand
Apr 29 06:19:48 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 29 06:19:59 <michaelnovakjr> i have had problems with my laptop
Apr 29 06:20:12 <michaelnovakjr> other than that everything is smooth, so i can't complain
Apr 29 06:20:20 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:20:33 <michaelnovakjr> i am looking at getting a dell with ubuntu on it
Apr 29 06:20:50 <muthu> that would be cool
Apr 29 06:21:12 <michaelnovakjr> indeed, i want to get it shipped with it because i hate microsoft
Apr 29 06:21:32 <muthu> lot of microsoft haters
Apr 29 06:22:05 <muthu> i don't hate them.. but i prefer going with opensource
Apr 29 06:22:17 <muthu> when you have an option, why choose something expensive?
Apr 29 06:22:21 <michaelnovakjr> i have never had luck with them
Apr 29 06:22:39 <f00f-> this is such a cliche convesation :)
Apr 29 06:22:44 <michaelnovakjr> i tell my family members I no longer support their windows machines :)
Apr 29 06:22:50 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:23:01 <muthu> that's the microsoft power
Apr 29 06:23:03 <michaelnovakjr> i can't take anymore phone calls
Apr 29 06:23:16 <muthu> they'll seize your family, take hostage ;)
Apr 29 06:23:31 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 29 06:23:39 <muthu> f00f-: welcome to the conversation, throw in your bits
Apr 29 06:23:53 <muthu> cliche works!
Apr 29 06:23:57 <muthu> and its proven.
Apr 29 06:24:29 * romainguy___ is a happy user of both open source and proprietary software :) 
Apr 29 06:24:43 <muthu> romainguy_: that's the right mix
Apr 29 06:24:51 <michaelnovakjr> ^ mac
Apr 29 06:25:02 <romainguy___> I do a lot of graphics oriented stuff
Apr 29 06:25:10 <romainguy___> and Open Source packages just don't do it :((
Apr 29 06:25:11 <michaelnovakjr> adobe?
Apr 29 06:25:16 <romainguy___> mostly yes
Apr 29 06:25:24 <michaelnovakjr> same here
Apr 29 06:26:02 <romainguy___> there are also tons of small paying apps on Mac OS X that I just really enjoy
Apr 29 06:26:17 <michaelnovakjr> textmate :)
Apr 29 06:26:27 <romainguy___> not my favorite, but I have a license :))
Apr 29 06:26:38 <michaelnovakjr> well, nothing beats emacs
Apr 29 06:26:43 <romainguy___> ahah
Apr 29 06:26:50 <romainguy___> except a good IDE :p
Apr 29 06:27:14 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 29 06:27:19 <michaelnovakjr> i use emacs on linux :)
Apr 29 06:27:25 <michaelnovakjr> for c programming
Apr 29 06:27:57 <jasta> yawn
Apr 29 06:28:16 <jasta> just 1 week left until the ADC winners are announced ;)
Apr 29 06:28:17 <romainguy___> speaking of which, I just wrote C code
Apr 29 06:28:23 <romainguy___> it's been a long time since I did that
Apr 29 06:28:25 <michaelnovakjr> c :)
Apr 29 06:28:33 <jasta> romainguy___: then you'd better have someone check it ;)
Apr 29 06:29:07 <romainguy___> especially since it's in adb :p
Apr 29 06:29:07 <muthu> C - distant memories
Apr 29 06:29:19 <michaelnovakjr> ah distant is no good
Apr 29 06:29:20 <muthu> hope i don't see C again!
Apr 29 06:29:21 <michaelnovakjr> i love C
Apr 29 06:29:32 <muthu> yeah C is great
Apr 29 06:29:37 <romainguy___> it is
Apr 29 06:29:44 <romainguy___> but it depends on what you have to do
Apr 29 06:29:50 <romainguy___> I would certainly not write a UI with it
Apr 29 06:29:54 <romainguy___> (unlike some people here ;-)
Apr 29 06:30:06 <f00f-> i'm toying with python for x-platform GUI's
Apr 29 06:30:06 <michaelnovakjr> ::cough:: gtk ::cough::
Apr 29 06:30:15 <romainguy___> PyQT is really cool
Apr 29 06:30:23 * jasta destroys romain with his awesome C-fu.
Apr 29 06:30:29 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 29 06:30:33 * romainguy___ dodges with a Bus Error
Apr 29 06:30:40 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 29 06:30:42 <jasta> bus errors do not occur with valid C code.
Apr 29 06:30:47 <romainguy___> they just did
Apr 29 06:30:48 <romainguy___> twice
Apr 29 06:30:53 <jasta> then your code isn't valid fool :)
Apr 29 06:30:56 <romainguy___> I was just dereferencing a NULL pointer :p
Apr 29 06:30:57 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:31:09 <michaelnovakjr> well obviously there's memory issues there
Apr 29 06:31:13 <f00f-> i'm working on a nav/media system for an in-car computer and am considering pygame+pysdl+pyopengl
Apr 29 06:31:15 <romainguy___> but a crash with only "Bus Error" in the console, it's not very helpful ^^
Apr 29 06:31:30 <f00f-> C code is scary for GUI's :)
Apr 29 06:31:39 <muthu> try CURSES
Apr 29 06:31:43 <muthu> hehe
Apr 29 06:31:48 <f00f-> heh
Apr 29 06:31:59 <muthu> or is it CURSORS?
Apr 29 06:32:03 <muthu> oh damn
Apr 29 06:32:43 <jasta> it's curses.
Apr 29 06:32:47 <muthu> right
Apr 29 06:32:52 <jasta> or new curses.
Apr 29 06:33:03 <muthu> cool, then my memory serves right
Apr 29 06:33:36 <jasta> romainguy___: really, the problem is that C has just been abused *waaayyyy* too much :)
Apr 29 06:34:05 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, that is because there's a lot of wrong people write C
Apr 29 06:34:06 <jasta> compilers permit a lot of crud they should not.
Apr 29 06:34:07 <michaelnovakjr> writing C
Apr 29 06:34:15 <romainguy___> michaelnovakjr: same for Java :p
Apr 29 06:34:18 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 29 06:34:24 <michaelnovakjr> verrrry true
Apr 29 06:34:24 <romainguy___> jasta: I don't mind that
Apr 29 06:34:35 <romainguy___> I'm more concerned about the C++ crowd :p
Apr 29 06:34:43 <jasta> the ANSI C standard, in particular, is very elegant and if you write knowing it your experience will be much improved :)
Apr 29 06:34:44 <michaelnovakjr> if you know how it is supposed to work then the compiler won't be fed 'crap'
Apr 29 06:34:56 <jasta> romainguy___: oh, well, C++ all bets are off.  that language is bogus.
Apr 29 06:35:19 <jasta> with C++*
Apr 29 06:36:32 <f00f-> i guess you'd prefer erlang or haskell :P
Apr 29 06:38:50 <jasta> i'm gonna go to bed.
Apr 29 06:39:00 <muthu> jasta: wait
Apr 29 06:39:04 <muthu> the name?
Apr 29 06:39:12 <muthu> what's your app name?
Apr 29 06:39:17 <michaelnovakjr> five
Apr 29 06:39:47 <muthu> jasta:  was contemplating, did he finalize?
Apr 29 06:40:06 <jasta> did i what?
Apr 29 06:41:35 <muthu> jasta: name?????
Apr 29 06:41:40 <jasta> my name?
Apr 29 06:41:49 <muthu> your app name
Apr 29 06:41:54 <jasta> michaelnovakjr already told you, five.
Apr 29 06:42:03 <muthu> you said, you are changing it
Apr 29 06:42:07 <muthu> i know the old name is 5
Apr 29 06:42:19 <jasta> no, i'm just probably going to give the music player specifically a name at some point.
Apr 29 06:42:22 <jasta> five is the name of the system
Apr 29 06:42:27 <jasta> but the player can and should have a different name
Apr 29 06:42:34 <muthu> ok.. the player name?
Apr 29 06:42:38 <jasta> i haven'
Apr 29 06:42:41 <jasta> i haven't renamed it yet :)
Apr 29 06:42:46 <muthu> hi5
Apr 29 06:42:48 <jasta> for now, it's titled Five Music
Apr 29 06:42:54 <jasta> no, i won't call it hi5.  that is sooooo lame ;)
Apr 29 06:42:58 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 06:43:02 <muthu> its a great name
Apr 29 06:43:21 <muthu> name it
Apr 29 06:43:24 <muthu> wi5
Apr 29 09:22:09 <muthu> http://www.helloandroid.com/node/525
Apr 29 09:32:54 <duey> uh muthu
Apr 29 09:33:00 <duey> stds aye
Apr 29 09:33:07 <muthu> hey duey
Apr 29 09:33:44 <muthu> STD = long distance calls
Apr 29 09:34:18 <duey> pretty sure its not
Apr 29 09:34:24 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 09:53:18 <ligi> re
Apr 29 13:41:33 <vol_> I have an IntentHandler. I want to create an intent using the Intent(Context, Class) constructor to call this Handler. Is it possible to register this handler via registerReciever?
Apr 29 13:42:20 <vol_> registerReceiver requires an IntentFilter, and it doesn't seem like IntentFilters will work with Intents created by setting the component
Apr 29 14:21:54 <vol_> Argh, fuck
Apr 29 14:21:56 <vol_> this is rediculous
Apr 29 14:22:02 <vol_> has anyone else come across an eclipse bug
Apr 29 14:22:09 <vol_> where it simply refuses to accept that classes are where they are?
Apr 29 14:22:22 <vol_> projects that were previously just fine all of a sudden have compile errors
Apr 29 14:22:29 <michaelnovakjr__> eclipse sucks
Apr 29 14:22:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i stopped using it
Apr 29 14:22:43 <vol_> I've NEVER had this problem before now in the last 3 years
Apr 29 14:22:53 <ligi> michaelnovakjr__: me 2
Apr 29 14:23:01 <ligi> michaelnovakjr__: its tooooooo slow
Apr 29 14:23:06 <ligi> michaelnovakjr__: using emacs here
Apr 29 14:23:07 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't have a need for it anymore
Apr 29 14:23:16 <michaelnovakjr__> hell yea ligi me too!
Apr 29 14:23:30 <ligi> ;-)
Apr 29 14:23:59 <ligi> i've not even looked at the eclipse android plugin
Apr 29 14:24:39 <vol_> well, I'll take this as a "no" then
Apr 29 14:25:02 <ligi> vol_: ^^
Apr 29 14:29:13 <vol_> Anyway, if either of you would like to answer my previous question about intentreceivers, I'd appreciate it
Apr 29 14:29:46 <michaelnovakjr__> i am using aidl
Apr 29 14:30:16 <ligi> vol_: sorry couldnt answer that one - i have just one launch intend in my app yet
Apr 29 14:31:10 <vol_> actually, this didn't happen until I used the svn plugin for eclipse...
Apr 29 14:31:17 <vol_> I wonder if disabling it would help.
Apr 29 14:31:55 <ligi> its worth a try
Apr 29 14:33:39 <vol_> also sigh, android shell doesn't have cp or move.
Apr 29 14:35:16 <vol_> I have files in /data/data/foo.bar/files. My package is now foo.bar.baz, and I'm unable to play these files. Boo.
Apr 29 14:35:59 <ligi> vol_: you can do cp
Apr 29 14:36:11 <ligi> vol_: cat source > destination
Apr 29 14:36:21 <mnel_work> good morning
Apr 29 14:36:27 <vol_> hmm, good call.
Apr 29 14:36:32 <ligi> vol_: for mv + rm
Apr 29 14:36:48 <ligi> mnel_work: good evening
Apr 29 14:37:25 <vol_> shit.
Apr 29 14:37:30 <vol_> note to self: the > is important.
Apr 29 14:37:37 <vol_> BEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEPBEEP
Apr 29 14:37:40 <ligi> lol
Apr 29 14:37:52 <ligi> yes the > iss very important
Apr 29 14:38:07 <ligi> vol_: but i had this problem too some times
Apr 29 14:38:14 <ligi> jus hit enter to early
Apr 29 14:38:32 <mnel_work> Think we'll see HTC announce android hardware next week?
Apr 29 14:38:39 <ligi> i want a real bash - with tab completion and stuff
Apr 29 14:38:44 <ligi> mnel_work: no
Apr 29 14:38:51 <ligi> mnel_work: some blogs say so
Apr 29 14:38:53 <vol_> yeah, the lack of tab completion is a pain.
Apr 29 14:39:17 <mnel_work> ligi: yeah, lots of rumors
Apr 29 14:39:39 <ligi> mnel_work: i want a phone too ... listening to all rumors
Apr 29 14:40:17 <mnel_work> ligi: I'd even be happy with an unofficial phone that ran it well...
Apr 29 14:40:32 <ligi> mnel_work: N810?
Apr 29 14:41:16 <ligi> mnel_work: http://www.talkandroid.com/65-google-android-nokia-n810
Apr 29 14:42:08 <mnel_work> ligi: I've been considering that.
Apr 29 14:43:25 <vol_> n810 isn't a phone though, unless I'm mistaken.
Apr 29 14:43:31 <vol_> my n800 isn't, at least :\
Apr 29 14:43:37 <ligi> vol_: we take everything
Apr 29 14:43:37 <ligi> ^^
Apr 29 14:43:58 <vol_> eh.
Apr 29 14:44:04 <mnel_work> ligi: sounds like it sort of works on some HTC hardware as well.
Apr 29 14:44:42 <michaelnovakjr__> morrildl: i thought google hasn't announced a date for the winners?
Apr 29 14:44:51 <michaelnovakjr__> i thought it was in the 'near future'
Apr 29 14:45:17 <morrildl> Well, we won't be providing dates for the winners.  The only prize is cash
Apr 29 14:45:25 <morrildl> oh wait
Apr 29 14:45:26 <morrildl> ;)
Apr 29 14:45:35 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 29 14:45:38 <michaelnovakjr__> good one
Apr 29 14:45:45 <morrildl> 5 May is the stated date
Apr 29 14:45:56 <ligi> my silent hope iss that the google guys give a android-phone to the submission-authors wich are not under the first 50 ( or at least to the ones which are open-source - shouldnt be so much ;-)
Apr 29 14:46:03 <morrildl> I can tell you we are working hard to hit it, and leaning on some of the less diligent judges :)
Apr 29 14:46:33 <morrildl> ligi: believe me when I say we would love to be able to do that.
Apr 29 14:46:37 <vol_> I work pretty hard to hit it, too.
Apr 29 14:46:38 <michaelnovakjr__> well, good luck morrildl, i think so far on the public facing side of things it gone very well
Apr 29 14:46:54 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr__: thanks :)
Apr 29 14:46:56 <vol_> not quite the same way as you
Apr 29 14:47:00 <ligi> morrildl: i think it wouldn be bad for u either
Apr 29 14:47:02 <ligi> ;-)
Apr 29 14:47:30 <ligi> my submission only makes sense with a real device ^^
Apr 29 14:47:45 <morrildl> ligi: I think that's true of them all :)
Apr 29 14:47:59 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 29 14:48:02 <vol_> sigh. this is maddening. The only change I've made to this project is refactoring the package name. Now, my File Chooser is all of a sudden throwing null pointer exceptions!
Apr 29 14:48:03 <ligi> ;-)
Apr 29 14:48:11 <muthu> is may 5 confirmed?
Apr 29 14:48:20 * vol_ grumbles more
Apr 29 14:48:30 <michaelnovakjr__> yes morrildl: 5 May is the stated date
Apr 29 14:48:34 <morrildl> muthu: I'm not sure what you mean by "confirmed", but that's always been the stated date
Apr 29 14:48:40 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 29 14:48:43 <michaelnovakjr__> 'stated'
Apr 29 14:49:00 <michaelnovakjr__> they won't know i guess until they actually finish :)
Apr 29 14:49:28 <morrildl> I think at one point David changed it to "week of", which not coicidentally was the day we looked in the submission queue and saw like 500 entries when there were still a couple weeks left :)
Apr 29 14:49:46 <muthu> take your time
Apr 29 14:49:50 <muthu> its better to judge them well
Apr 29 14:49:51 <muthu> then to rush
Apr 29 14:49:57 <michaelnovakjr__> i'd rather them get it right than judge too fast
Apr 29 14:50:11 <morrildl> muthu: yeah we agree
Apr 29 14:50:19 <morrildl> But, we said 5 May, we're going to try to hit 5 May.
Apr 29 14:50:22 <michaelnovakjr__> i want to see some useful quality apps in that top 50
Apr 29 14:50:27 <michaelnovakjr__> not eye candy
Apr 29 14:50:35 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr__: oh there are :)
Apr 29 14:50:52 <michaelnovakjr__> i don't doubt that :)  i've seen apps i think are excelletn
Apr 29 14:50:55 <muthu> morrildl: are you categorizing winners?
Apr 29 14:51:14 <muthu> like application type, submission type etc.,
Apr 29 14:51:18 <morrildl> muthu: nope
Apr 29 14:51:23 <muthu> cool
Apr 29 14:51:26 <morrildl> We didn't say we would, so that would be unfair
Apr 29 14:51:34 <muthu> right
Apr 29 14:51:43 <morrildl> if we get 49 games and 1 cooking app, we'll have to live with it :)
Apr 29 14:51:51 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 14:51:57 <muthu> that's the point i was trying to make
Apr 29 14:52:06 <muthu> woah
Apr 29 14:52:09 <morrildl> fortunately that's not at all the case
Apr 29 14:52:24 <muthu> 1 cooking not bad, what you talking about?
Apr 29 14:52:26 <muthu> ;)
Apr 29 14:52:28 <michaelnovakjr__> let's hope theres a weather app in there ;)
Apr 29 14:52:38 <muthu> lol
Apr 29 14:52:49 <ligi> hope there's an UFO app in there ;-
Apr 29 14:53:03 <muthu> ok, droids here's my latest android love
Apr 29 14:53:05 <muthu> http://helloandroid.com/node/525
Apr 29 14:53:21 <muthu> had a mobeegal demo
Apr 29 14:53:32 <muthu> with a SF company
Apr 29 14:53:50 <muthu> one question they asked: when is android opensourced?
Apr 29 14:54:09 <morrildl> muthu: very nice:)
Apr 29 14:54:25 <muthu> morrildl: android is rocking already
Apr 29 14:54:44 <muthu> people are excited in general
Apr 29 14:54:51 <muthu> device manufactures etc.,
Apr 29 14:57:16 <muthu> android is going to run in more than mobile phones
Apr 29 14:57:19 <vol_> morrildl: so there's a Cooking Mama app for android?
Apr 29 14:57:26 <ligi> muthu: not to forgett us developers ^^
Apr 29 14:57:54 <muthu> ligi: oh yeah.. no android without us :)
Apr 29 14:58:25 <morrildl> muthu: yeah, we are stoked
Apr 29 14:58:30 <morrildl> This time is like TORTURE
Apr 29 14:58:43 <morrildl> things are mostly nailed down, but we have to actually deliver a device :)
Apr 29 14:58:53 <muthu> yeah do that soon
Apr 29 14:58:54 <morrildl> so it's the "in between" time where everyone is waiting
Apr 29 14:59:05 <muthu> yup, with a lot of questions
Apr 29 14:59:23 <morrildl> vol_: maybe, but I don't mean a game, I mean actual cooking apps
Apr 29 14:59:45 <muthu> vol_: haven't you heard about the wonderful cooking application that i did?
Apr 29 14:59:48 <muthu> come on!
Apr 29 14:59:50 <morrildl> I certainly haven't seen all the apps
Apr 29 15:00:16 <muthu> my cooking app is a simple utility
Apr 29 15:00:18 <muthu> it must win
Apr 29 15:00:21 <muthu> if it does not
Apr 29 15:00:25 <vol_> morrildl: I know, I was joking.
Apr 29 15:00:34 <muthu> then the judges are not human.. they are really droids!!
Apr 29 15:00:35 <vol_> muthu: I guess not
Apr 29 15:00:42 <morrildl> vol_: anyway I'd rather have Diner Dash
Apr 29 15:00:43 <ligi> morrildl: then what are you doing in IRC - LOOK AT THE APPS ;-)
Apr 29 15:00:47 <vol_> ha
Apr 29 15:01:26 <muthu> ligi: it gets boring after watching a few apps
Apr 29 15:01:28 <morrildl> ligi: I am not a judge, anyway :)
Apr 29 15:01:33 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Apr 29 15:01:47 <morrildl> muthu: oh no. no no.  no sir.
Apr 29 15:01:51 <morrildl> It doesn't get boring
Apr 29 15:01:56 <morrildl> it is addictive :)
Apr 29 15:02:05 * morrildl added a "Show me a Random App" mode
Apr 29 15:02:07 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 15:02:09 <michaelnovakjr__> you can send us judging info and we can confirm that for you haha ;)
Apr 29 15:02:20 <morrildl> I did this for testing, to make sure that submissions work correctly and so on
Apr 29 15:02:28 <morrildl> but I can tell you that it is super-easy to get sucked in :)
Apr 29 15:02:34 <michaelnovakjr__> i bet
Apr 29 15:02:53 <morrildl> I laughed, I cried, I said "wtf?" more than once
Apr 29 15:03:12 <muthu> it should be fun
Apr 29 15:03:18 <ligi> morrildl: hehe - I can imagine that ,-)
Apr 29 15:03:59 <muthu> morrildl: google must be already talking with enkin dudes
Apr 29 15:04:05 <muthu> isn't it cool?
Apr 29 15:04:17 <ligi> i think the WTF-Factor was very high with my submission - but its really usefull in the field when u know what this is all about
Apr 29 15:04:48 <michaelnovakjr__> enkin..... muthu i don't really see that as so amazing
Apr 29 15:04:59 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: what's your pick?
Apr 29 15:05:35 <michaelnovakjr__> i dig jasta's media player........ i'd like to see screenshots of your LBS search engine, that sounds interesting
Apr 29 15:05:51 <muthu> jasta: i nominate him without seeing his app
Apr 29 15:05:59 <muthu> and he did a great job as expected
Apr 29 15:06:14 <muthu> wait for mobeegal.. that'll rock your mobile world
Apr 29 15:06:33 <michaelnovakjr__> ....still waiting....
Apr 29 15:06:53 <muthu> the demo was impressive
Apr 29 15:07:00 <muthu> the client liked it
Apr 29 15:07:11 * morrildl has not seen enkin's app, actually
Apr 29 15:07:12 <muthu> i need a google like team though
Apr 29 15:07:32 <muthu> morrildl: what? are you serious?
Apr 29 15:07:34 <michaelnovakjr__> morrildl: not really missing much
Apr 29 15:07:54 <muthu> check it out right now.. it deserves to be seen
Apr 29 15:08:07 <morrildl> well, I've seen the video
Apr 29 15:08:11 <morrildl> I mean that I haven't seen their app running
Apr 29 15:08:14 <muthu> oh ok
Apr 29 15:08:27 <morrildl> And at the end of hte day, judges have to judge based on what got submitted
Apr 29 15:08:33 <muthu> right
Apr 29 15:08:44 <muthu> there were some submissions, which did only video
Apr 29 15:08:46 <muthu> no apk
Apr 29 15:08:53 <michaelnovakjr__> really?
Apr 29 15:08:58 <muthu> yeah
Apr 29 15:09:01 <ligi> muthu: was that possible?
Apr 29 15:09:04 <morrildl> ...and those submissions are not included in the 1,788 submissions
Apr 29 15:09:09 <michaelnovakjr__> are you serious..... how can you tell its even real?
Apr 29 15:09:11 <ligi> lol
Apr 29 15:09:13 <muthu> ok.. it might have been filtered
Apr 29 15:09:15 <michaelnovakjr__> haha good
Apr 29 15:09:30 <muthu> i did like 10 videos ;)
Apr 29 15:09:34 <ligi> they should have packed the video in the apk
Apr 29 15:09:41 <muthu> lol
Apr 29 15:09:47 <michaelnovakjr__> or submitted an apk to prove it works
Apr 29 15:10:07 <muthu> you know there's a lot of way we can trick the judges
Apr 29 15:10:19 <muthu> if someone is smart, he can really pull it off
Apr 29 15:10:33 <michaelnovakjr__> i doubt the judges are stupid
Apr 29 15:10:45 <ligi> i had problems making a video - i can't stand in front of a camera and be serios - i just made some little demonstrations without speaking http://www.vimeo.com/905980
Apr 29 15:11:07 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: judges are not stupid, that's like saying users are stupid
Apr 29 15:11:53 <michaelnovakjr__> what i meant by that muthu is that i am sure the judges can sniff bs if its submitted.... or at least the googlers that filtered out the crap
Apr 29 15:11:59 <vol_> well, users ARE stupid.
Apr 29 15:12:05 <vol_> hence usability testing
Apr 29 15:12:52 <muthu> hmm
Apr 29 15:13:00 <muthu> users are stupid, and they can also be very smart
Apr 29 15:15:06 <muthu> morrildl: when the next SDK?
Apr 29 15:15:21 <morrildl> muthu: as soon as I can get to it :)
Apr 29 15:15:33 <muthu> ok.. it means after may 5 then
Apr 29 15:15:49 <ligi> with bluetooth then ?-)
Apr 29 15:21:29 <jasta> yawn
Apr 29 15:29:25 <vol_> Is there a programatic way to request that an application wait for the debugger to attach?
Apr 29 15:35:55 <Kraln> muthu: how's my server working out for you
Apr 29 15:37:00 <muthu> Kraln: no issues
Apr 29 15:37:05 <muthu> working great
Apr 29 15:37:15 <Kraln> cool. let me know when you launch so I can start invoicing you
Apr 29 15:37:16 <leiv> Hi, all. I have got a problem in running a android application, I run it in eclipse and it say: Failed to install xxx.apk on 'emulator-tcp-5555': Local file doesn't exist.
Apr 29 15:37:23 <leiv> what should i do?
Apr 29 15:37:24 <muthu> sure
Apr 29 15:37:45 <muthu> Kraln: we have just set up, will take some more days to fully hit and test it
Apr 29 15:37:48 <michaelnovakjr__> leiv: don't use eclipse
Apr 29 15:37:54 <Kraln> muthu: roger.
Apr 29 15:37:59 <Kraln> I actually upped the cap on the machine to 20mbit
Apr 29 15:38:05 <Kraln> so uh, you won't run into bandwidth issues
Apr 29 15:38:13 <muthu> Kraln: woah.. thanks for the help buddy
Apr 29 15:38:13 <jasta> leiv: try going to project -> clean
Apr 29 15:38:21 <muthu> Kraln: you rock man!
Apr 29 15:38:48 <michaelnovakjr__> leiv: if you are on linux good luck.  Mine wouldn't work after trying many many things
Apr 29 15:39:04 <michaelnovakjr__> i have only successfully used eclipse on a mac
Apr 29 15:39:11 <leiv> i work on Windows
Apr 29 15:39:17 <Kraln> if the file doesn't exist there's a problem with the compilation
Apr 29 15:39:24 <jasta> leiv: just clean the project first, as i said.
Apr 29 15:39:26 <michaelnovakjr__> just as bad as linux leiv
Apr 29 15:39:45 <leiv> I'm trying jasta's method
Apr 29 15:40:07 <jasta> then hit f5 to refresh it if it doesn't build automagically
Apr 29 15:40:23 <jasta> then it should be fine.  if not, check the project's path in the filesystem and make sure there is a bin/foo.apk
Apr 29 15:41:50 <lummie> anyone in ?
Apr 29 15:42:00 <leiv> jasta:Conversion to Dalvik format failed with error 1,and there is no apk file in bin
Apr 29 15:42:16 <michaelnovakjr__> ...bug...
Apr 29 15:42:49 <jasta> has it ever worked?
Apr 29 15:42:57 <leiv> yes
Apr 29 15:43:26 <leiv> the last time i use, it's works
Apr 29 15:43:45 <jasta> is there anything you changed which would cause you to suspect this?
Apr 29 15:43:56 <Kraln> check permissions
Apr 29 15:44:28 <jasta> oh, wait
Apr 29 15:44:28 <leiv> i changed jdk from 1.5 to 1.6, would this be a course?
Apr 29 15:44:33 <jasta> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f24b9a56712239e9/5cf1dbc4444a4a7a?#5cf1dbc4444a4a7a
Apr 29 15:45:17 <jasta> specifically check the error details to see which file it freaked on.
Apr 29 15:45:25 <jasta> it is probably that Thumbs.db file, esp if you are on Windows
Apr 29 15:45:28 <jasta> but it may be anything else
Apr 29 15:45:30 <lummie> Is there a way in the XML layouts to display an image at a size smaller than the resources ?  e.g. with an Image view.  I have a 64x64 png, that I want to dsiplay at 32x32 and setting the layout width/height or max width height doesn't effect it.
Apr 29 15:45:54 <jasta> setting the layout_width and height *does* work.  you've done something wrong.
Apr 29 15:46:02 <lummie> damn
Apr 29 15:46:07 <jasta> that said, don't ask ImageView to scale the image at runtime.  scale it yourself and save the 32x32 version.
Apr 29 15:46:56 <leiv> I have checked that there is no Thumbs.db
Apr 29 15:47:13 <jasta> leiv: check the details of the error, as i said.  let's try not to guess waht the file is.
Apr 29 15:53:16 <leiv> http://pastebin.org/32783
Apr 29 15:54:35 <jasta> what is this line all about:
Apr 29 15:54:36 <jasta> #
Apr 29 15:54:36 <jasta> #
Apr 29 15:54:36 <jasta> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: already added: Lentagged/audioformats/AudioFile;
Apr 29 15:54:40 <jasta> ?
Apr 29 15:55:02 <leiv> i can't understand either
Apr 29 15:55:47 <jasta> well, i have no idea.  post to the android-developers group.
Apr 29 15:55:55 <jasta> perhaps this is some new JDK1.6 crud that has confused Dalvik?
Apr 29 15:56:16 <vol_> Sigh. Ok, please point out the stupid flaw here. I'm trying to use PackageManager.getServiceInfo. So, I create a ComponentName with the params ("foo.bar.baz.service", "BazService"
Apr 29 15:56:19 <vol_> )
Apr 29 15:56:26 <vol_> BazService lives in foo.bar.baz.service
Apr 29 15:56:33 <vol_> the base package is foo.bar.baz
Apr 29 15:56:36 <jasta> ComponentName's have to be redundant
Apr 29 15:56:41 <jasta> so, like:
Apr 29 15:57:01 <leiv> thanks ,jasta
Apr 29 15:57:04 <vol_> oh, so it has to be "foo.bar.baz.service", "foo.bar.baz.service.BazService" ?
Apr 29 15:57:32 <jasta> ComponentName("foo.bar.baz", "foo.bar.baz.service.BazService")
Apr 29 15:58:21 <vol_> AH
Apr 29 15:58:23 <vol_> er, eh,.
Apr 29 15:58:25 <vol_> aosidjaiopsidja
Apr 29 15:58:27 <vol_> ah.
Apr 29 15:59:21 <jasta> uhh
Apr 29 16:00:02 <vol_> yes, that was it, thanks
Apr 29 16:01:15 <vol_> this brings me to the next issue. PackageManager.queryIntentServices confirms that my intent will match the service I'm trying to run
Apr 29 16:01:28 <vol_> but doing startService(intent, null) does.... nothing
Apr 29 16:01:31 <vol_> as far as I can tell, at least
Apr 29 16:01:42 <vol_> which is slightly frustrating since my other client/server app does this just fine :\
Apr 29 16:01:50 <vol_> I'm just not sure what I'm missing here, since I can bind to it
Apr 29 16:02:48 <jasta> vol_: well, what do you expect it to do and how have you tested that it does not do that?
Apr 29 16:03:20 <vol_> I've set breakpoints and logging output on onStart, onPause, and onCreate
Apr 29 16:03:29 <vol_> onCreate is hit when the service is bound
Apr 29 16:03:39 <vol_> but nothing else is ever hit
Apr 29 16:03:56 <vol_> I call startService inside of the onServiceConnected method of my ServiceConnection in the client
Apr 29 16:03:58 <jasta> try invoking it by class, to be sure you have not screwed something else up
Apr 29 16:04:04 <vol_> I am invoking it by class
Apr 29 16:04:16 <jasta> huh, you are starting two services right?
Apr 29 16:04:18 <vol_> Intent i = new Intent(MyClient.this, MyServer.class);
Apr 29 16:04:32 <vol_> no, same service. I'm binding to it, then starting it to keep it active in the background
Apr 29 16:04:43 <vol_> this way when the client closes the service continues to run
Apr 29 16:04:45 <jasta> i have implemented this strategy differently
Apr 29 16:04:55 <vol_> if you can suggest a better way, please let me know
Apr 29 16:05:01 <jasta> hang on, let me pull up my code
Apr 29 16:05:45 <jasta> i wrote:
Apr 29 16:05:59 <jasta> actually let me throw it on pastebin
Apr 29 16:06:14 <vol_> hmm.
Apr 29 16:06:19 <jasta> http://pastebin.com/m5735c2e
Apr 29 16:06:23 <vol_> if I replace my bind code with just starting the service, ti works.
Apr 29 16:06:24 <vol_> *it
Apr 29 16:07:43 <jasta> do note that there is a special relationship you construct with this code.  specifically, being bound with BIND_AUTO_CREATE, the service cannot stop until the activity quits.
Apr 29 16:08:06 <jasta> but if the activity quits, the server won't necessarily stop
Apr 29 16:08:34 <vol_> well, in the other app I made (music player) it did stop when the activity stopped
Apr 29 16:08:50 <jasta> i assure you, it will not.  check my code.
Apr 29 16:09:28 <vol_> I'm looking at your code. you're starting the service, then binding
Apr 29 16:09:31 <jasta> if the service invokes stopSelf() at any point, it will stop when the BIND_AUTO_CREATE relationship disappears (the activity quits, or unbinds)
Apr 29 16:09:41 <jasta> or if some other component calls stopService.
Apr 29 16:09:42 <jasta> but not otherwise
Apr 29 16:10:14 <jasta> the relatiosnhip i've setup here is a service that synchronizes in the background but that you can open an activity to spy on its progress
Apr 29 16:10:32 <jasta> so it can continually start/bind to it even while it's already running (or not).
Apr 29 16:10:36 <jasta> and disconnect at will and it will stay running.
Apr 29 16:10:45 <jasta> but if the service finishes syncing, it will not forcefully disconnect
Apr 29 16:10:56 <jasta> it'll wait until the activity quits to stop itself
Apr 29 16:11:23 <vol_> hmm.
Apr 29 16:11:41 <vol_> What I did as a test was bind the service, then unbind it. The service stopped running.
Apr 29 16:11:56 <jasta> and it would without startService
Apr 29 16:11:57 <vol_> I never called stopSelf, however.
Apr 29 16:12:05 <vol_> alright, I guess I misunderstood you
Apr 29 16:12:17 <jasta> that's why i'm doing both.  but i start the service first.
Apr 29 16:12:36 <vol_> ok, I will try it that way.
Apr 29 16:12:55 <jasta> also do realize that BIND_AUTO_CREATE is important here
Apr 29 16:14:46 <vol_> yes, I've been using that
Apr 29 16:14:58 <jasta> fyi, looking at this now, i have no idea why i create two intents
Apr 29 16:15:09 <jasta> i must have refactored the code that way without realizing it
Apr 29 16:16:35 <leiv> jasta:i have find the problem, that i defined a same class that has defined in a .jar file."already added: Lentagged/audioformats/AudioFile" is the class
Apr 29 16:16:43 <leiv> :)
Apr 29 16:18:06 <jasta> good :)
Apr 29 16:20:38 <vol_> Excellent, everything seems to be working correctly
Apr 29 16:20:40 <vol_> thanks jasta
Apr 29 16:20:52 <jasta> np
Apr 29 16:20:55 <jasta> off to work now
Apr 29 16:22:35 <leiv> it's middlenight here,i'll go to sleep, bye michaelnovakjr__ , Kraln, jasta and all.
Apr 29 16:23:24 <Kraln> night
Apr 29 16:34:24 <EQU> It's possible to add to system own URI pattern at android ?
Apr 29 16:35:38 <EQU> (after, all activities will link my patern )
Apr 29 17:05:32 <jasta> wow, the new Ubuntu release is pretty nice actually
Apr 29 17:05:39 <jasta> Compiz is improved quite a bit
Apr 29 17:05:42 <jasta> lots of polish around the edges
Apr 29 17:10:42 <Kraln> is there still no quick way to get to a terminal?
Apr 29 17:10:53 <Kraln> does it still not work right with youtube.com out of the box?
Apr 29 17:11:14 <jasta> well, i have a key binding to open a terminal and that still works
Apr 29 17:11:15 <jasta> if thats what you mean
Apr 29 17:11:24 <Kraln> I mean from the menus
Apr 29 17:11:30 <Kraln> you have to dig deep for it
Apr 29 17:11:36 <Kraln> and youtube?
Apr 29 17:11:38 <jasta> accessories, terminal as its always been
Apr 29 17:11:47 <Kraln> it's a great linux distro for people new to operating systems
Apr 29 17:11:59 <Kraln> it's a terrible distro for power users or for people used to windows.
Apr 29 17:12:14 <Kraln> there's still no good 'newb' linux distro
Apr 29 17:12:39 <jasta> actually, i'm more of a power user than you've probably ever met.
Apr 29 17:12:41 <jasta> and i like ubuntu
Apr 29 17:13:03 <jasta> Firefox is actually one of the only GUI apps I use :)
Apr 29 17:13:13 <jasta> and even then, I am familiar with and often use links ;)
Apr 29 17:13:38 <Kraln> so why do you bother with ubuntu over debian?
Apr 29 17:13:52 <jasta> i use both debian and ubuntu, actually.  i like both.
Apr 29 17:14:00 <Kraln> that doesn't answer my question
Apr 29 17:14:07 <Kraln> what do you like, as a power user, that ubuntu gives you that debian doesn't
Apr 29 17:14:17 <jasta> though i find ubuntu makes me fight less when i try to install it on newer hardware
Apr 29 17:14:48 <jasta> because they keep the kernel more up-to-date, more aggressively patched, and the restricted drivers system they employ works nice.
Apr 29 17:15:21 <jasta> i'm installing the multiverse flashplugin package now btw
Apr 29 17:15:25 <jasta> i'll let you know if it works
Apr 29 17:15:35 <Kraln> did that install automagically when you went to youtube?
Apr 29 17:15:45 <jasta> yup, worked perfect.
Apr 29 17:15:53 <jasta> it opened an automagic box that asked me to next my way through it, yes
Apr 29 17:16:06 <jasta> just like it would've in Windows
Apr 29 17:16:30 <jasta> though i can't say that i like the new firefox.  i'm not sure why they chose to put a beta version on here too
Apr 29 17:16:44 <Kraln> firefox 3 beta 5?
Apr 29 17:16:49 <jasta> yeah
Apr 29 17:17:01 <Kraln> actually 3b5 looks/runs great on osx. very well integrated
Apr 29 17:17:15 <romainguy___> Kraln: the integration is still lacking on many aspects
Apr 29 17:17:20 <jasta> right off the bat i'm struck that iGoogle looks stupid because the buttons and widgets from GTK are "shaped"
Apr 29 17:17:22 <romainguy___> but it's much better than it used to be
Apr 29 17:17:48 <jasta> but they are not transparently shaped.  they are a perfect gray rectangle with shaped buttons atop that ;)
Apr 29 17:18:16 <jasta> i'm gonna test all these firefox performance claims and hit up google docs with a giant spreadsheet
Apr 29 17:18:36 <jasta> yuck, the auto history bar that pops down when you start typing looks awful.  way too cluttered.
Apr 29 17:18:40 <jasta> and they use bold and underline!  eww.
Apr 29 17:19:01 <Kraln> romainguy: it's better. I still use safari
Apr 29 17:19:24 <jasta> actually, performance in google docs does seem to be much improved with the new firefox
Apr 29 17:19:25 <romainguy___> I still use safari too
Apr 29 17:19:31 <romainguy___> when I need Gecko I turn to Camino
Apr 29 17:20:00 <jasta> so, i guess my only problem from the dist-upgrade is that urxvt fonts don't look right.  too much letter spacing.
Apr 29 17:20:08 <jasta> but i used to have this problem before.  i just don't remember how i solved it.
Apr 29 17:20:16 <jasta> maybe there's some xft: rendering engine feature
Apr 29 17:20:36 <Kraln> so why ubuntu over, say, opensuse
Apr 29 17:20:50 <romainguy___> and why not?
Apr 29 17:20:57 <romainguy___> Ubuntu offers a nice experience out of the box
Apr 29 17:20:59 <romainguy___> it just works
Apr 29 17:21:06 <romainguy___> it has a nice desktop
Apr 29 17:21:12 <Kraln> he doesn't use the ui
Apr 29 17:21:18 <romainguy___> ah
Apr 29 17:21:21 <romainguy___> then he's not a power user :)
Apr 29 17:21:34 <Kraln> I'm curious as to why as a 'more power user than I've ever met' he chooses ubuntu, is all
Apr 29 17:21:38 <jasta> Ubuntu's package maintainers are much less stoned than Debian's, too.
Apr 29 17:22:22 <jasta> Kraln: Power user doesn't mean I like wasting my time.  If I liked that, I'd use Gentoo or RedHat.
Apr 29 17:22:36 <jasta> Or Windows :)
Apr 29 17:23:21 <jasta> I spent a lot of time fighting with Linux to learn it.  Now that I've got that out of the way, it would just seem tedious to keep fighting.
Apr 29 17:23:58 <romainguy___> that reminds me what I first started using Linux
Apr 29 17:24:11 <romainguy___> making X run on 486 laptops was very very painful at the time :))
Apr 29 17:24:13 <Kraln> last time I had to mess with ubuntu it was nothing but fighting. especially to get audio working I had to compile up some kernels and soforth
Apr 29 17:24:48 <Kraln> and, as far as 'just works' goes, I'm pretty happy with osx =)
Apr 29 17:24:49 <mnel_work> romainguy___: I had X running on a 386 with 8mb of ram.  It was terrible. :)
Apr 29 17:25:01 <romainguy___> mnel_work: a *laptop*
Apr 29 17:25:08 <romainguy___> the problem was getting X to work with the screen :)
Apr 29 17:25:18 <mnel_work> neomagic?
Apr 29 17:25:19 <Kraln> romainguy: I had a 486 touch-screen laptop tablet thingy
Apr 29 17:25:24 <Kraln> that was a huge pita
Apr 29 17:26:10 <romainguy___> that said thing weren't that great a year ago when I tried Ubuntu again
Apr 29 17:26:19 <romainguy___> it was stuck in 1280x900 on my 30"
Apr 29 17:26:23 <mnel_work> My old pentium laptop didn't have quite enough memory to do 800x600@16bit color, so in windows you could only do 8bit.  In X, I was able to do a custom modeline at 800x576 and get my full 16bit color. :D
Apr 29 17:26:53 <Kraln> romainguy: yeah, configuring X on ubuntu also required some custom asshattery three months ago when I set it up for the gf
Apr 29 17:27:34 <mnel_work> Kraln: I had to do that for my media box, but I've got a rather weird configuration there.
Apr 29 17:29:16 <jasta> my gf uses Ubuntu ;)
Apr 29 17:29:53 <muthu> now we know why jasta uses ubuntu
Apr 29 17:30:02 <jasta> actually, for simple users, it is much better than Windows.  you fight with it a lot less for the basic e-mail and media.
Apr 29 17:30:18 <Kraln> jasta: if they've never seen windows
Apr 29 17:30:23 <Kraln> otherwise it's just confusing
Apr 29 17:30:25 <jasta> also, for some reason my girlfriend *loves* when it has updates. a nd it has updates like every other day.
Apr 29 17:30:44 <Kraln> seen this? http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/is-ubuntu-useable-enough-for-my-girlfriend/
Apr 29 17:30:48 <jasta> Kraln: i wouldn't agree with that.
Apr 29 17:30:55 <jasta> mostly, it is very similar to Windows.
Apr 29 17:31:12 <jasta> in terms of its basic user experience assumptions.  you can double click on things.  menus do the same thing.  right click usually does something.
Apr 29 17:31:49 <Kraln> "where's the internet"
Apr 29 17:32:11 <jasta> maybe my girlfriend is just not as retarded as most
Apr 29 17:32:20 <muthu> linux is not yet ready for gf yet
Apr 29 17:32:21 <Kraln> don't denegrate users like that
Apr 29 17:32:45 <Kraln> as a side note, I advocate two tiers of internet (not like the telcos)
Apr 29 17:32:54 <Kraln> one where users can't harm themselves
Apr 29 17:33:04 <Kraln> and then you have to take a test to get to the real internet
Apr 29 17:33:19 <muthu> mostly the real problem with linux is applications
Apr 29 17:33:30 <jasta> this is such a silly conversation though
Apr 29 17:33:38 <jasta> i mean really.
Apr 29 17:34:00 <jasta> do our opinions even matter to one another?
Apr 29 17:34:04 <Kraln> no =)
Apr 29 17:34:09 <muthu> haha
Apr 29 17:34:17 <jasta> i mean do any of you really care what i think?  do i really care what you think? :)
Apr 29 17:34:23 <muthu> no
Apr 29 17:34:26 <muthu> :)
Apr 29 17:34:52 <jasta> so, have you guys seen this:
Apr 29 17:35:08 * Kraln has seriously considered making an ubuntu derivative that names the applications for what they do and not what their authors think you should call them
Apr 29 17:35:13 <jasta> http://xkcd.org/416/
Apr 29 17:35:35 <muthu> Kraln: go for it, make it simple and easy
Apr 29 17:36:09 <muthu> jasta: funny
Apr 29 17:36:35 <edcba> mixing xkcd.org & xkcd.com domains...
Apr 29 18:25:45 <jasta> eclim is so sweet :)
Apr 29 18:29:29 <davidw> what's that?
Apr 29 18:33:33 <jasta> davidw: it lets Vim hook into Eclipse features
Apr 29 18:33:37 <jasta> using a headless Eclipse server
Apr 29 18:33:53 <jasta> then it just defines a bunhc of vim commands and mappings to do all the magic eclipse does
Apr 29 18:34:02 <davidw> scary
Apr 29 18:34:16 <Kraln> weird
Apr 29 18:34:16 <jasta> it's pretty elegant really.  eclipse was designed to run like this.
Apr 29 18:34:35 <davidw> sounds like one of those things like "your problem: you have to use eclipse.  Answer?  vim+eclipse.  Now you have two problems"
Apr 29 18:35:20 <Kraln> three.
Apr 29 18:36:13 <Kraln> I'm playing with something called wallsaver. it makes my background run whatever screensaver I want
Apr 29 18:36:19 <Kraln> and in osx? it looks really, really pretty.
Apr 29 19:04:44 <jasta> Kraln: compiz has a plugin that does that
Apr 29 19:05:07 <jasta> http://tombuntu.com/index.php/2007/09/14/animated-wallpaper-with-compiz-fusion-on-ubuntu/
Apr 29 19:06:09 <Kraln> are you kidding?
Apr 29 19:06:16 <Kraln> you could use any application as the root window in X for years
Apr 29 19:06:30 <jasta> Kraln: Yes, but this is accelerated through Compiz
Apr 29 19:06:44 <jasta> previously, this approach would hardly work at all
Apr 29 19:07:06 <jasta> things like translucent terminals would look hideous ;)
Apr 29 19:07:27 <Kraln> yeah, everything is gorgeous - my im client and the dock and irc and everything are transparent
Apr 29 19:07:39 <Kraln> so my snowflake screensaver is just very soothing
Apr 29 19:14:49 <michaelnovakjr__> Kraln: on mac?
Apr 29 19:15:14 <jasta> Kraln: i just tried that and it is really, really, *REALLY* distracting :)
Apr 29 19:15:26 <jasta> you'd need a background that is *very* subtle
Apr 29 19:15:32 <jasta> like trees gently blowing in the wind would be nice
Apr 29 19:15:47 <michaelnovakjr__> might put you to sleep on your keyboard
Apr 29 19:16:05 <michaelnovakjr__> you can put an animated window in your cube :)\
Apr 29 19:16:38 <michaelnovakjr__> now theres an idea!
Apr 29 19:16:52 <jasta> the coolest thing about compiz is that the engine is pretty flexible.  you could do lots of bizarre stuff with it :)
Apr 29 19:17:11 <michaelnovakjr__> create a picture frame like device and program it to animate the identical weather for a location you set.... ie where you are :)
Apr 29 19:17:21 <michaelnovakjr__> that way you feel like you are looking out a real window
Apr 29 19:17:57 <mnel_work> or you could do that infinitely recursive mirror effect...
Apr 29 19:21:19 <Kraln> jasta: that's what I've got.
Apr 29 19:21:41 <Kraln> ooh! it'd be cool to make it use the camera on the laptop
Apr 29 19:21:46 <Kraln> so that the screen surface is a mirror
Apr 29 19:21:49 <Kraln> except for the windows
Apr 29 19:24:58 <jasta> Kraln: trees blowing in the wind?
Apr 29 19:25:31 <Kraln> something 'very' subtle
Apr 29 19:25:35 <Kraln> snowflakes on a light blue field
Apr 29 19:27:15 <mnel_work> Kraln: thousands of little virtual cubicle workers toiling away at compiling your programs...
Apr 29 19:27:34 <Kraln> mnel_work: the amount of snowflakes is directly proportional to cpu load
Apr 29 19:28:07 <mnel_work> Kraln: will each snowflake be unique?
Apr 29 19:28:37 <Kraln> this is not a will, this is an is. they're fractally generated
Apr 29 19:29:21 <mnel_work> ah
Apr 29 19:34:36 <f00f-> heh
Apr 29 19:34:48 <f00f-> where are the virtual cubicle workers that are generating the snoflwakes?
Apr 29 19:37:08 <mnel_work> f00f-: no snowflakes, jsut virtual cubicle workers that you can sit and watch and "organize".
Apr 29 19:41:11 <jasta> Kraln: you know what would make a great animated background?
Apr 29 19:44:56 <jasta> http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-files/52958-NightOfUbuntu_1600x1200.jpg
Apr 29 19:45:06 <jasta> if that tree blew in the wind and those little snowflakes rotated and fluttered to the ground
Apr 29 19:45:10 <jasta> very gently
Apr 29 19:45:34 <jasta> that would be so incredibly relaxing :)
Apr 29 19:47:21 <dims> jasta: that's beautiful!
Apr 29 19:48:20 <jasta> that's my current background (for one head)
Apr 29 19:48:34 <jasta> the other head uses water-fire, which you can find pretty easily by googling
Apr 29 19:48:49 <jasta> it's just that candle flame retextured to look like water
Apr 29 19:53:32 <f00f-> jasta: ooh, that is the ubuntu tree with a different color :)
Apr 29 19:54:16 <dims> i usually pick something up from here - http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
Apr 29 19:54:30 <dims> (see Archive link at the bottom)
Apr 29 19:58:37 <jasta> i love apod
Apr 29 19:58:43 <jasta> i have hte apod module in igoogle
Apr 29 20:49:11 <vol_> This is more a style question than anything, though there is some code behind it.
Apr 29 20:49:22 <vol_> I have a service right now, and I'm considering exposing several different interfaces to it
Apr 29 20:49:38 <michaelnovakjr__> ok....
Apr 29 20:49:40 <vol_> the service would handle say 3 things, and have 3 different interfaces
Apr 29 20:49:50 <vol_> would it be improper to bind 3 times?
Apr 29 20:49:53 <michaelnovakjr__> no
Apr 29 20:49:59 <vol_> really?
Apr 29 20:50:06 <michaelnovakjr__> first, the interfaces.... why three?
Apr 29 20:50:16 <michaelnovakjr__> and what do you mean by interfaces?
Apr 29 20:50:26 <vol_> aidl interfaces
Apr 29 20:50:41 <vol_> as in interfaces I define in aidl then define in the class
Apr 29 20:51:02 <vol_> three because there are  different aspects of the service which are not necessarily related
Apr 29 20:51:23 <vol_> and I would like / my manager would like a modular approach
Apr 29 20:51:37 <vol_> such that different activities could bind to this and only use a certain subset of the features
Apr 29 20:51:38 <michaelnovakjr__> modular is always a great approach
Apr 29 20:52:07 <michaelnovakjr__> sure that would be ok, i thought you meant bind three interfaces at the sametime pointing to a single service
Apr 29 20:52:14 <michaelnovakjr__> that is a bit of overhead
Apr 29 20:52:28 <vol_> yeah
Apr 29 20:52:37 <vol_> I would be calling bind three times, each time for a different interface
Apr 29 20:52:50 <vol_> I could always just have yet another interface extend all of them
Apr 29 20:53:02 <michaelnovakjr__> or just use one interface
Apr 29 20:53:09 <vol_> yeah, I was considering that too
Apr 29 20:53:30 <michaelnovakjr__> if you use one interface you can bind it once in an activity and use it for the duration and then kill it
Apr 29 20:53:39 <michaelnovakjr__> depending on exactly what you are doing
Apr 29 20:54:09 <vol_> well, lets say that I want a service that does driving directions, so I need position updates via the location manager, route updates, and map updates.
Apr 29 20:54:23 <michaelnovakjr__> is it threaded?
Apr 29 20:54:29 <vol_> but then lets say I want a lightweight "where am I" gps readout
Apr 29 20:54:46 <vol_> not by design, at least not yet
Apr 29 20:54:52 <vol_> parts will eventually probably be
Apr 29 20:55:05 <vol_> (I/O, etc)
Apr 29 20:55:09 <michaelnovakjr__> you should actually run your directions code on another thread so your drawing is easier
Apr 29 20:55:26 <vol_> right, that's actually why I'm running a service.
Apr 29 20:55:31 <michaelnovakjr__> that would solve your problem, you would run the thread and then kill it
Apr 29 20:55:38 <vol_> there will be a relatively lightweight activity that runs
Apr 29 20:55:44 <vol_> and gets any information from the service
Apr 29 20:55:51 <vol_> and displays it appropriately
Apr 29 20:55:55 <vol_> the hard work happens in the service
Apr 29 20:56:18 <michaelnovakjr__> all the more reason to spawn directions operations on another thread, that why your UI doesn't get locked up
Apr 29 20:56:22 <michaelnovakjr__> that way*
Apr 29 20:56:46 <vol_> yes, that will probably happen if I need to do dynamic rerouting
Apr 29 20:57:03 <vol_> but that's more an aside than anything
Apr 29 20:57:24 <f00f-> still no hits jasta?
Apr 29 20:58:02 <michaelnovakjr__> in any case i think for your purposes one interface might be less costly
Apr 29 20:58:24 <vol_> yeah
Apr 29 20:58:38 <michaelnovakjr__> you can run the interface for the directions services and then close it out when finished instead of launching three different services one right after another
Apr 29 20:58:46 <vol_> it's still a bit of a learning experience since what I'm doing is radically different from what I'm used to
Apr 29 20:58:56 <michaelnovakjr__> without a doubt
Apr 29 20:59:01 <vol_> well, the thing is
Apr 29 20:59:07 <michaelnovakjr__> just have to remember that its a mobile device :)
Apr 29 20:59:11 <vol_> things like location updates will be nigh constant
Apr 29 20:59:31 <michaelnovakjr__> don't want to have a million objects floating around because then the GC will run a lot more frequently
Apr 29 20:59:56 <vol_> so for the main app, the service will always be running while it's running
Apr 29 21:00:17 <michaelnovakjr__> the service with three interfaces is always running?
Apr 29 21:00:18 <vol_> other, less frequent things, such as map info or route info or thigns like that might happen once every minute
Apr 29 21:00:23 <vol_> effectively
Apr 29 21:00:34 <vol_> the idea being that it will still go in the background, even if you close the activity
Apr 29 21:00:49 <michaelnovakjr__> hm, what would it be doing in the background?
Apr 29 21:00:53 <vol_> you might be spoiled with evdo, but some of us live with grps and need things to live in the background
Apr 29 21:01:10 <vol_> location/position updates, location tracking, downloading
Apr 29 21:01:35 <michaelnovakjr__> that stuff i can see always running... does your app allow you to turn that feature off though?
Apr 29 21:02:13 <f00f-> you should never constantly use a network connection
Apr 29 21:02:36 <vol_> f00f-: like I said, some of us live in grps land, and need all the bandwidth we can possibly get
Apr 29 21:02:51 <vol_> yes, it drains the battery and is impolite
Apr 29 21:02:52 <michaelnovakjr__> but the radio will kill the battery
Apr 29 21:02:55 <f00f-> bursts with lots of data are better than small packets nearly constantly
Apr 29 21:03:00 <vol_> but it's better than having the user drive off the edge of the world potentially
Apr 29 21:03:07 <vol_> f00f-: 1kbps.
Apr 29 21:03:21 <vol_> think about something like gmaps running at 1kbps
Apr 29 21:03:27 <michaelnovakjr__> vol_: that is why you need to load more than current location
Apr 29 21:03:35 <michaelnovakjr__> load potential locations as well
Apr 29 21:03:42 <michaelnovakjr__> use the google maps ajax theory
Apr 29 21:03:45 <f00f-> doesn't really matter how low, since it's still taking up a significant chunk of radio frames
Apr 29 21:04:03 <vol_> michaelnovakjr__: I'll be doing that anyway.
Apr 29 21:04:16 <michaelnovakjr__> so why the need for constant update?
Apr 29 21:04:49 <vol_> the constant io is because map images are large (even scaled down to rediculous quality) and bandiwidth is constrained.
Apr 29 21:05:18 <vol_> in all fairness, the way we've done things before is very inefficient
Apr 29 21:05:29 <vol_> so I suspect we can improve that significantly
Apr 29 21:05:39 <michaelnovakjr__> if you load surrounding map images it gives you time between calls
Apr 29 21:05:43 <vol_> however, using our current setup on other devices, the radio is going constantly just getting data
Apr 29 21:05:58 <f00f-> vol_: what's your app (few words) ?
Apr 29 21:06:27 <vol_> driving directions w/o the mapactivity or mapview backend
Apr 29 21:06:39 <michaelnovakjr__> ?
Apr 29 21:06:43 <vol_> think something like garmin or tomto
Apr 29 21:06:45 <vol_> tomtom
Apr 29 21:06:48 <f00f-> gotcha
Apr 29 21:06:53 <f00f-> very nice, homebrew GIS stuff?
Apr 29 21:06:55 <vol_> basically gmaps replacement
Apr 29 21:07:02 <vol_> it's a bit more than homebrew
Apr 29 21:07:14 <michaelnovakjr__> interesting
Apr 29 21:07:15 <vol_> like I said, I've started looking into this since my manager tasked me with it
Apr 29 21:07:29 <vol_> and compared to j2me programming I'm very happy he did
Apr 29 21:07:47 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Apr 29 21:07:52 <vol_> but, I've only been here a few months, and my last job was half hjalf-assed java, and half ajax
Apr 29 21:07:53 <michaelnovakjr__> android programming is pleasant
Apr 29 21:08:07 <vol_> this is completely perpendicular to what I'm used to doing
Apr 29 21:08:25 <f00f-> doing android prog for a living would be awesome
Apr 29 21:08:43 <michaelnovakjr__> totally
Apr 29 21:08:51 <vol_> assuming the project gets the goahead, this will be pretty awesome
Apr 29 21:10:49 <vol_> in any event
Apr 29 21:11:28 <vol_> the idea is that a service runs in the background, an activity that displays the location, route, etc lives in the foreground
Apr 29 21:12:13 <f00f-> yeah
Apr 29 21:12:16 <michaelnovakjr__> you should strongly consider limiting the amount the bg service runs
Apr 29 21:12:16 <vol_> and is periodically updated by the service
Apr 29 21:12:20 <f00f-> basically you're cloning maps service
Apr 29 21:12:21 <f00f-> etc.
Apr 29 21:12:24 <vol_> more or less.
Apr 29 21:12:42 <vol_> you could say they're cloning us for that matter
Apr 29 21:13:01 <f00f-> :D
Apr 29 21:13:11 <vol_> anyway, yeah. I guess it just needs a bit more thought put into it
Apr 29 21:14:18 <vol_> thanks for helping though
Apr 29 21:15:05 <michaelnovakjr__> anytime, the hardest part is making it run for mobile devices. Apps don't want to drain battery. Gets users mad
Apr 29 21:39:07 <vol_> yeah
Apr 29 21:39:43 <vol_> Well, here's another thing. I want to have a notification displayed so that there's a nice little icon when we're running, even if the activity isn't running
Apr 29 21:39:57 <vol_> the issue is that if I have multiple services, coordinating when to kill that icon might be an issue
Apr 29 21:40:02 <michaelnovakjr__> like a notificationmanager thing...?
Apr 29 21:40:03 <vol_> is there a way to determine if services are running?
Apr 29 21:40:09 <vol_> yeah, I'd do it via notification manager
Apr 29 21:40:33 <vol_> basically, I want the last service to turn out the lights so to speak
Apr 29 21:40:39 <vol_> though whether that's the way to go, I'm not sure.
Apr 29 21:40:48 <michaelnovakjr__> you can have the service do that
Apr 29 21:41:02 <vol_> right
Apr 29 21:41:09 <vol_> I was thinking of running multiple services
Apr 29 21:41:19 <vol_> someone suggested that I have services that only run on demand for certain things
Apr 29 21:41:42 <vol_> for example, someone mentioned that we should precache the maps. Well, lets say that the user is at a wifi hotspot and can preplan their trip. We can pre-download the maps that they'll use
Apr 29 21:41:47 <vol_> so, we'
Apr 29 21:42:02 <vol_> d only want to spawn a service that did map download IO and a service to calculate the routees
Apr 29 21:42:13 <vol_> but might want that to sit in the background
Apr 29 21:43:05 <vol_> so, I'm concerned about having a service cancel this notification if it's not the only service running but nothing is bound to it
Apr 29 21:43:15 <michaelnovakjr__> i am not sure about multiple services, especially one that stays alive
Apr 29 21:44:07 <vol_> unfortunately, that's the way it has to be.
Apr 29 21:44:18 <vol_> even if the user is not looking at the activity, it has to respond to the user's driving
Apr 29 21:44:23 <michaelnovakjr__> its going to kill battery
Apr 29 21:44:25 <vol_> download the appropriate maps and update the route accordingly
Apr 29 21:44:28 <vol_> yes, I know.
Apr 29 21:44:31 <vol_> trust me.
Apr 29 21:44:33 <michaelnovakjr__> and i am not even sure how GC will like that
Apr 29 21:44:36 <vol_> battery life is a concern.
Apr 29 21:45:07 <vol_> suffice to say, users are going to know going in that this is going to potentially kill their battery
Apr 29 21:45:28 <vol_> hence, driving directions, where they can use a car charger
Apr 29 21:45:46 <vol_> the gc is a valid point too
Apr 29 21:45:52 <vol_> though to be honest I'm not really sure what else to do.
Apr 29 21:46:02 <vol_> we HAVE to have something constantly running to deal with location and routing updates
Apr 29 21:46:04 <michaelnovakjr__> are you using any sqlite stuff in the service?
Apr 29 21:46:13 <vol_> doubtful
Apr 29 21:46:43 <vol_> if we have to save anything, it will most likely be to a file, since it will probably be larger than a few k
Apr 29 21:47:22 <vol_> the user preference things sit nicely in the user preferences framework
Apr 29 21:48:46 <michaelnovakjr__> what you should think of doing is estimate how far the user is from the next possible spot they could make a turn or go in a different direction and load up to that point, this way its not so continuous.  I really don't see a speed increase by doing little bits
Apr 29 21:49:55 <michaelnovakjr__> if the user is traveling faster than you can load that also could be a problem
Apr 29 21:50:08 <vol_> yeah
Apr 29 21:50:21 <vol_> for that matter, are there any hard specs on minimum hardware requirements?
Apr 29 21:50:27 <vol_> 32MB memory, etc
Apr 29 21:50:32 <michaelnovakjr__> not specifically yet
Apr 29 21:50:40 <vol_> boo
Apr 29 21:50:44 <vol_> that would at least help with some guesses
Apr 29 21:50:49 <michaelnovakjr__> the hardware side of things is still pretty low key
Apr 29 21:57:39 <vol_> well, I should sleep on it
Apr 29 21:57:44 <vol_> thanks again, time to go home
Apr 30 00:49:30 <jasta> blech
Apr 30 00:49:33 <jasta> i don't feel like coding today
Apr 30 00:50:58 <jasta> but i'm gonna, sigh ;)
Apr 30 00:51:57 <f00f-> i havent coded in ages
Apr 30 00:52:02 <f00f-> i dont see any hits, either
Apr 30 00:52:20 <jasta> i've seen quite a lot of activity on my server in the last week
Apr 30 00:53:03 <jasta> my project has a really long way to go before it's ready for launch, though.  i just have to keep working.
Apr 30 01:17:18 <michaelnovakjr> same here
Apr 30 01:17:26 <michaelnovakjr> i have lots to code
Apr 30 01:20:16 <duey> my apps been judged
Apr 30 01:20:20 <duey> 100% i think
Apr 30 01:20:28 <duey> 5 visits
Apr 30 01:20:39 <duey> they did it pretty quick
Apr 30 01:23:40 <f00f-> :(
Apr 30 01:24:02 <jasta> perhaps yours broke?
Apr 30 01:24:14 <jasta> or maybe you got stuck in a panel of lazy judges :)
Apr 30 01:24:22 <f00f-> i hope the latter
Apr 30 01:24:27 <f00f-> there are still some days
Apr 30 01:24:29 <Dougie187> is yours done jasta?
Apr 30 01:24:36 <jasta> Dougie187: no, only 2 have connected
Apr 30 01:24:45 <Dougie187> well hopefully soon.
Apr 30 01:26:19 <jasta> they have a week and so far it looks like they've made a lot of progress through most apps
Apr 30 01:26:45 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Apr 30 01:26:53 <michaelnovakjr> anyone releasing another apk version monday?
Apr 30 01:27:27 <jasta> i'm hoping to release source around then :)
Apr 30 01:27:29 <jasta> probably that weekend
Apr 30 01:27:54 <Dougie187> Already?
Apr 30 01:28:12 <jasta> why not?
Apr 30 01:28:21 <michaelnovakjr> i am planning for a release of an updated version, to include better timezone support and to add more flavor to the audible warning system.
Apr 30 01:28:23 <Dougie187> I didnt know you were ready to open it.
Apr 30 01:28:32 <jasta> i'm not really, but i will anyway.
Apr 30 01:29:04 <jasta> since i released to the ADC, i have been doing little usability improvements all over.  adding a server GUI, real configuration, etc.
Apr 30 01:29:09 <jasta> but i'm not finished yet
Apr 30 01:29:22 <jasta> if i don't finish by next weekend, meh, i'll just release quietly and keep working
Apr 30 01:29:38 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 30 01:30:06 <Dougie187> well im out for now. talk to you all later
Apr 30 01:30:07 <jasta> i'm starting to see that i will need contributors in order to meet some of my targets for this project.
Apr 30 01:30:40 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, let me know when you want the OS X and Win GUIs
Apr 30 01:30:50 <jasta> oh trust me, i will ;0
Apr 30 01:30:55 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Apr 30 01:31:07 <jasta> what i want to do first, in order to make that task easier, is have the GNOME UI fully built.
Apr 30 01:31:16 <jasta> so that i can just say "here, make it do this" :)
Apr 30 01:31:24 <michaelnovakjr> good point
Apr 30 01:31:32 <michaelnovakjr> the UIs should resemble each other
Apr 30 01:31:40 <jasta> yes, where sensible.
Apr 30 01:31:54 <jasta> the biggest difference between the GNOME and Windows versions as I see it are the installation process.
Apr 30 01:32:00 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 30 01:32:10 <jasta> is the*
Apr 30 01:32:25 <jasta> windows users will expect a GUI installer and all that jazz, with an auto-update feature of sorts.
Apr 30 01:32:35 <michaelnovakjr> spoiled
Apr 30 01:32:37 <jasta> and like a goofy setup wizard maybe
Apr 30 01:33:00 <jasta> the GNOME UI will probably have a setup wizard too though.  maybe, i don't know.
Apr 30 01:33:20 <michaelnovakjr> it would help to have a nifty wizard for the initial setup
Apr 30 01:33:43 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: yeah, basically i think the program will need to harrass the user to setup a last.fm account and such.
Apr 30 01:34:10 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, totally... i think users would appreciate the hand holding in this case
Apr 30 01:34:12 <jasta> you don't need one, actually, but i think it makes the whole thing better
Apr 30 01:34:15 <michaelnovakjr> its something new to them
Apr 30 01:34:57 <michaelnovakjr> plus its not the main attraction :) so they won't really care much for it..... just the phone
Apr 30 01:35:27 <jasta> what i'd eventually like to see is a way for the user to install the app to their phone during the same process
Apr 30 01:35:39 <michaelnovakjr> that would be nice
Apr 30 01:36:01 <jasta> like, if the user is plugged into the computer just install it.  otherwise, the server could actually host the apk :)
Apr 30 01:36:16 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 30 01:36:31 <jasta> these are challenges i intend to ignore for now though.  we'll just have to see how the platform expands.
Apr 30 01:38:13 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Apr 30 01:39:31 <jasta> i'm hoping to have the server stuff pretty ironed out within the next couple of weeks so i can concrete the rest of my time on the phone part.
Apr 30 01:41:43 <michaelnovakjr> the phone is the important part :)
Apr 30 01:42:07 <jasta> well, kinda ;0
Apr 30 01:42:19 <jasta> i mean, the server is what contains all of the difficult problems to solv e;)
Apr 30 01:42:34 <jasta> but the phone portion is still quite a bit more time consuming
Apr 30 01:42:45 <jasta> tweaking UIs, optimization, learning Android, yada yada
Apr 30 01:42:47 <michaelnovakjr> true, but users aren't plugging headphones into the server :)
Apr 30 01:42:54 <michaelnovakjr> yada yada!
Apr 30 01:46:11 <jasta> there's so much hideous stuff in the Android code so far.
Apr 30 01:46:15 <jasta> just beacuse it was a learning effort for me
Apr 30 01:46:23 <jasta> and i had a really stressful time constraint ;)
Apr 30 01:46:40 <michaelnovakjr> i'm sure lots of code isn't 'pretty'
Apr 30 01:46:42 <jasta> but i'm still comfortable releasing it, just with a disclaimer that a good portion of it will need to be torn up
Apr 30 01:46:48 <michaelnovakjr> i know parts of mine need a makeover
Apr 30 01:47:18 <jasta> my project was just so huge.  i had no choice but to cowboy code my way through large parts of it
Apr 30 01:49:32 <michaelnovakjr> true
Apr 30 01:53:02 <jasta> it's over 20K loc now hehe
Apr 30 01:53:08 <michaelnovakjr> god bless gmt
Apr 30 02:08:33 <jjt009> hey dudes
Apr 30 02:08:43 <jjt009> jasta: you got any logs this week
Apr 30 02:08:59 <jasta> not since the weekend
Apr 30 02:09:07 <jjt009> yeah, same here
Apr 30 02:09:29 <jjt009> so i guess we'll be judged this week only if we're in the top 100...
Apr 30 02:10:08 <f00f-> is the judging random?
Apr 30 02:10:11 <jasta> jjt009: why would you come to that conclusion?
Apr 30 02:10:21 <jjt009> well, that's what it says on the faq
Apr 30 02:10:21 <f00f-> i submitted my first app with 1 week to go to deadline
Apr 30 02:10:28 <jasta> jjt009: where?
Apr 30 02:10:42 <jjt009> basically, the judges boil the down the apps to the top 100
Apr 30 02:10:51 <jjt009> then a new panel of judges rates those 100 apps
Apr 30 02:10:51 <jasta> i dont remember reading that
Apr 30 02:10:58 <jjt009> hold on
Apr 30 02:10:59 <jjt009> let me link
Apr 30 02:11:06 <f00f-> well yeah 3-4 rotations
Apr 30 02:11:41 <jjt009> http://code.google.com/android/adc_judging.html
Apr 30 02:11:51 <jjt009> read section Phase 2 Judging
Apr 30 02:11:52 <jasta> oh yeah, i did read this
Apr 30 02:11:53 <jasta> i just forgot
Apr 30 02:12:21 <jjt009> f00f-: you got any accesses this week?
Apr 30 02:12:30 <f00f-> jjt009: nothing yet
Apr 30 02:13:20 <f00f-> i hope there isn't a HTTP_GET_REQUEST permission i needed to add
Apr 30 02:13:32 <jjt009> nope
Apr 30 02:13:37 <jjt009> my code works without it
Apr 30 02:14:02 <jjt009> i'm scraping data from google maps and some other gps sites
Apr 30 02:14:06 <jjt009> works fine
Apr 30 02:14:34 <f00f-> so how many hits have you received?
Apr 30 02:14:41 <jjt009> two
Apr 30 02:15:01 <jjt009> but my server was down for about 1 day last week
Apr 30 02:15:05 <jjt009> so it may have been more
Apr 30 02:15:13 <jjt009> you?
Apr 30 02:15:16 <f00f-> when did you submit your first version?
Apr 30 02:15:23 <jjt009> 14th
Apr 30 02:15:26 <jjt009> close to midnight
Apr 30 02:15:29 <f00f-> hm
Apr 30 02:15:33 <f00f-> i have not received any hits
Apr 30 02:15:43 <jjt009> to your server?
Apr 30 02:15:47 <f00f-> right
Apr 30 02:15:58 <jjt009> there must be some bug in your code
Apr 30 02:16:12 <jjt009> or you have some really lazy judges
Apr 30 02:16:39 <jjt009> the code from your on-device app, i mean
Apr 30 02:16:40 <f00f-> i do hope i submitted the right version
Apr 30 02:16:42 <f00f-> but i triple-checked it
Apr 30 02:17:03 <jjt009> you tested to make sure the networking components of the app worked?
Apr 30 02:17:33 <f00f-> every time the app start up, it does an HTTP GET
Apr 30 02:17:55 <f00f-> even if there was no network access, it would fall back to a cached version of the data for judging
Apr 30 02:18:12 <f00f-> but i assume judges have some sort of internet connectivity
Apr 30 02:18:16 <jjt009> so then you're probably fine
Apr 30 02:18:20 <jjt009> yes, they all do
Apr 30 02:18:40 <jjt009> or they should
Apr 30 02:18:47 <jjt009> google mailed all the judges laptops to use
Apr 30 02:19:17 <jasta> f00f-: have you tested your own APK recently?
Apr 30 02:19:32 <jasta> to amek sure your server isn't stoned?
Apr 30 02:21:35 <f00f-> the apache server has been sailing smoothly for months
Apr 30 02:21:40 <f00f-> maybe i'm just at the end of the judging pack :)
Apr 30 02:22:23 <jasta> f00f-: ...but you hadn't tested the apk you sent to them?
Apr 30 02:22:32 <jasta> ...maybe you should pull it out just to be sure? :)
Apr 30 02:22:56 <f00f-> jasta: of course i did... i think
Apr 30 02:22:58 <f00f-> when i had a good version
Apr 30 02:23:09 <f00f-> i just went to bin/ and uploaded the .apk
Apr 30 02:23:12 <jasta> you didn't archive the version you sent to the judges?  dude.
Apr 30 02:23:35 <jjt009> dude.
Apr 30 02:23:37 <jjt009> hahah
Apr 30 02:23:58 <f00f-> what, was that incorrect?
Apr 30 02:24:37 <jjt009> no, i was laughing at what jasta said
Apr 30 02:24:51 <jjt009> don't sweat it man, you'll be fine
Apr 30 02:25:08 <jasta> btw f00f-, i haven't forgotten that you literally guaranteed us you would win the qualifying round ;)
Apr 30 02:25:21 <f00f-> jasta: i didn't archive the actual .apk, but i can recover the exact .apk since everything is in SVN
Apr 30 02:25:25 <jjt009> jasta: did you?
Apr 30 02:25:35 <jasta> jjt009: no, that would be a foolish thing to say.
Apr 30 02:25:36 <jjt009> f00f-: you open source?
Apr 30 02:25:40 <f00f-> no
Apr 30 02:25:46 <jjt009> oh ok
Apr 30 02:25:54 <jjt009> jasta: i agree
Apr 30 02:26:28 <jjt009> f00f-: so what about your app gives you the confidence to say that?
Apr 30 02:26:46 <jasta> jjt009: it's not his app that gave him the confidence :)
Apr 30 02:27:04 <jjt009> hm?
Apr 30 02:27:14 <f00f-> well, i dont know if i would say 'guarantee' but i think i had a novel LBS concept
Apr 30 02:27:29 <jasta> f00f-: i do know that you would say guarantee, because you did.
Apr 30 02:27:30 <f00f-> had and still have
Apr 30 02:27:37 <f00f-> lol
Apr 30 02:27:40 <jasta> i saved the log.
Apr 30 02:27:47 <f00f-> okay, so i'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best :)
Apr 30 02:27:49 <jasta> just because it tickled me so much :)
Apr 30 02:28:07 <jjt009> pednav?
Apr 30 02:28:09 <jasta> that's an unusual guarantee.
Apr 30 02:28:24 <f00f-> well now that i've seen so many high-caliber submissions, i feel less confident, for sure
Apr 30 02:28:36 <f00f-> jjt009: yes
Apr 30 02:28:48 <jjt009> you the found of routeme?
Apr 30 02:29:07 <f00f-> jjt009: co-founder
Apr 30 02:29:19 <jjt009> that's cool
Apr 30 02:29:49 <jjt009> itinerary?
Apr 30 02:29:49 <jasta> i do like the basic premise of your app f00f.
Apr 30 02:30:01 <f00f-> if we don't win this one, it'll push us even further for ADC II, since bluetooth should be officially supported and we'll have actual handsets
Apr 30 02:30:03 <jasta> but have you shown any details of the its implementation?
Apr 30 02:30:18 <jjt009> why should he?
Apr 30 02:30:36 <jasta> ADC-II will be intense.  a *LOT* more development time.
Apr 30 02:31:30 <jasta> i'm gonna write my app either way.  so if i miss ADC-I, i'll happily submit my mature, polished app to ADC-II :)
Apr 30 02:31:43 <jjt009> i'm starting from scratch if i lose
Apr 30 02:31:48 <jjt009> new idea
Apr 30 02:32:08 <jjt009> f00f-: where did you get all your data?
Apr 30 02:32:26 <f00f-> jjt009: nearby places data is from Yelp
Apr 30 02:32:49 <f00f-> and we made our own GTFS data set for some scheduling things
Apr 30 02:32:56 <jjt009> not bad
Apr 30 02:33:05 <jjt009> looks interesting
Apr 30 02:33:34 <f00f-> hopefully i can throw together a screencast some day soon :P
Apr 30 02:33:48 <jasta> i had wanted to produce a video of mine as well but i for some reason never did
Apr 30 02:33:54 <jasta> i guess i just got burnt out
Apr 30 02:34:03 <jasta> this ADC thing was exhausting for me
Apr 30 02:34:07 <f00f-> well, there's always the desire to polish it up endlessly :)
Apr 30 02:34:09 <jjt009> does the itinerary allow for flexibility?
Apr 30 02:34:26 <jjt009> e.g. different times to finish lunch, etc.
Apr 30 02:34:33 <jjt009> dynamic re-routing?
Apr 30 02:34:44 <f00f-> it allows you to specify, but it's not real-time right now since all our data sources are static
Apr 30 02:34:53 <f00f-> but yes, definitely dynamic is on the TODO list :)
Apr 30 02:35:01 <jjt009> neat
Apr 30 02:35:20 <jjt009> factor in cost, etc.
Apr 30 02:35:32 <jjt009> for example, i don't want to go to a very expensive restaurant
Apr 30 02:35:34 <jjt009> ?
Apr 30 02:35:57 <jjt009> it seems like you could add a lot of other data sets to the picture
Apr 30 02:36:04 <f00f-> right, and that's available in the Yelp data
Apr 30 02:36:10 <f00f-> $$$$ as well as ratings, # of reviews, etc.
Apr 30 02:36:24 <f00f-> yep, definitely
Apr 30 02:36:24 <jjt009> cool
Apr 30 02:36:38 <f00f-> it may seem like a broad goal, but we want you to be able to plan a day trip using this app
Apr 30 02:36:45 <f00f-> perhaps useful for tourists, but also people out and about
Apr 30 02:36:56 <jjt009> yeah, i could definitely see myself using it
Apr 30 02:37:02 <f00f-> currently Yelp is the most comprehensive generic data set
Apr 30 02:37:08 <jjt009> you thinking about open sourcing it?
Apr 30 02:37:29 <f00f-> well, we have commercial intentions for now :(
Apr 30 02:37:34 <f00f-> we'll see if anything pans out though
Apr 30 02:38:11 <f00f-> this yelp-stuff is kind of 'secondary' to the main idea, i would say
Apr 30 02:38:32 <f00f-> so anyone could clone that, and i'm people have
Apr 30 02:38:37 <jjt009> right
Apr 30 02:38:38 <f00f-> +sure
Apr 30 02:39:27 <jjt009> i've got to finish some hw
Apr 30 02:39:31 <jjt009> nice talking to you
Apr 30 02:39:33 <jjt009> good luck
Apr 30 02:39:35 <f00f-> enjoy, work hard
Apr 30 02:39:38 <f00f-> thx, you too
Apr 30 02:40:41 <f00f-> wow
Apr 30 02:40:43 <f00f-> TeeDroid seems interesting
Apr 30 02:40:56 <f00f-> i dont play golf, but from what i've heard
Apr 30 02:41:24 <f00f-> golfers spend a lot on equipment and products to improve their game
Apr 30 02:42:02 <f00f-> something like this could blow all the commercial personal-golf-coach products out of the water
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 30 03:00:02 2008