**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Apr 30 03:00:02 2008
Apr 30 05:47:36 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i just had an interesting idea
Apr 30 05:48:02 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: what if i design the UI like Google Desktop?  where the server hosts an internal HTTP server and lets you config it through a web browser?
Apr 30 05:48:14 <jasta> that way, the only platform-specific UI component would be the tray icon itself.
Apr 30 05:48:39 <duey> jasta, thats a good idea
Apr 30 05:50:47 <jasta> yeah, it would simplify a lot
Apr 30 05:51:05 <jasta> and i don't think it really loses anything by that design
Apr 30 05:51:45 <jasta> The server already, as part of its basic operation, includes a robust HTTP server (provided by libsoup)
Apr 30 05:52:38 <jasta> so all i'd need to do is have libsoup bind two separate instances, one listening only on the local interface, and the other on all other interfaces
Apr 30 05:59:27 <f00f-> is this your audio syncing server that user will install on their machine?
Apr 30 05:59:37 <jasta> yes
Apr 30 06:00:35 <f00f-> you're writing it in Python ?
Apr 30 06:00:44 <jasta> no, it's all in C.
Apr 30 06:00:59 <jasta> why would you assume python?
Apr 30 06:01:11 <f00f-> oh ok
Apr 30 06:01:22 <f00f-> not sure, seems cross-platform friendly wrt C
Apr 30 06:01:45 <f00f-> once i worked on a VPN client and the configuration was done through a web browser
Apr 30 06:01:55 <jasta> C is quite a bit more portable than Python, really.
Apr 30 06:02:03 <f00f-> we had a small web server in C that just had a tray icon that would launch web browser on localhost
Apr 30 06:02:14 <f00f-> it reduced a lot of x-platform GUI code
Apr 30 06:04:03 <jasta> my only concern is that this type of coding might be end up really lame in C
Apr 30 06:04:36 <duey> jasta, oh it will be
Apr 30 06:05:06 <jasta> though at least i have a high-level API for the HTTP server.
Apr 30 06:05:35 <f00f-> i don't see why you would torture yourself by using C for something relatively simple
Apr 30 06:06:07 <duey> java would work well
Apr 30 06:06:12 <jasta> well because embedding python would substantially increase the build and distribution complexity.
Apr 30 06:06:13 <duey> can use simpl
Apr 30 06:06:14 <f00f-> scan fs, read tags, send out wbxml, simple gui, etc.
Apr 30 06:06:16 <jasta> same with java.
Apr 30 06:06:25 <duey> just assume people have java
Apr 30 06:06:29 <f00f-> official bittorrent client is in python
Apr 30 06:06:42 <jasta> even assuming they have it you still have to figure out where it is and how to utilize it.
Apr 30 06:06:42 <duey> yeah i think python distriubtion is light
Apr 30 06:08:26 <jasta> i'd prefer to torture myself with C than torture myself with the distribution of this multi-language, multi-platform tool :)
Apr 30 06:08:53 <jasta> even writing it in Python, you'd still have to do a bunch of work to write separate UIs for each platform.
Apr 30 06:09:04 <duey> ?
Apr 30 06:09:13 <jasta> and using Java, you'd either require Java 6 or a bunch of extra lame crud.
Apr 30 06:09:29 <duey> pythons UI toolkit is cross platform i tihnk
Apr 30 06:10:10 <jasta> i don't think python _has_ a UI toolkit, only ports of native ones.
Apr 30 06:10:23 <duey> http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming
Apr 30 06:10:43 <f00f-> java 1.4.2 is all you need
Apr 30 06:10:45 <jasta> most of these look like shit?
Apr 30 06:10:51 <duey> PyQt
Apr 30 06:11:12 <duey> or some Wx one
Apr 30 06:11:27 <f00f-> wx uses native widgets i thought?
Apr 30 06:11:29 <jasta> None of these would be a good option.
Apr 30 06:11:35 <f00f-> SWT definitely does (for java)
Apr 30 06:11:41 <jasta> wx sucks to program against, too.
Apr 30 06:11:50 <duey> kw/e use c
Apr 30 06:11:58 <duey> im sure it will be much simpler
Apr 30 06:12:21 <f00f-> nah, you gotta do it in win32 assembly then
Apr 30 06:12:38 <duey> oh true
Apr 30 06:12:42 <duey> cant make it to easy
Apr 30 06:13:13 <jasta> f00f-: i thought prior to Java 6 you could not create a system tray icon with the standard runtime?
Apr 30 06:13:44 <f00f-> well SWT includes native bindings so it has support for creating tray icon
Apr 30 06:14:01 <jasta> if you create the native bindings, of course.
Apr 30 06:14:05 <f00f-> but if you dont use a native binding like SWT, then yeah, probably
Apr 30 06:14:18 <f00f-> SWT is already there
Apr 30 06:14:20 <f00f-> org.eclipse.swt.*
Apr 30 06:14:43 <f00f-> you just need to bundle the *.so and *.dll with your jar files
Apr 30 06:14:50 <jasta> that's my point: none of these solutions are any more cross-platform.  the simplest solution looks like just a web server.
Apr 30 06:14:57 <f00f-> and it'll pick the appopriate one at runtime based on host OS/platform
Apr 30 06:15:03 <duey> jasta, it is
Apr 30 06:15:15 <duey> i thought you just wanted a gui for the toolbar icon
Apr 30 06:15:22 <jasta> written in C, with #ifdef'd bits for the small platform-specific UI code.
Apr 30 06:15:48 <jasta> i know that would port at least well to Windows.
Apr 30 06:16:10 <jasta> duey: yeah, but for that i'm fine implementing it natively for at least Linux, OS X, and Windows.
Apr 30 06:16:19 <jasta> since it would be really very little code.
Apr 30 06:16:21 <duey> ohok
Apr 30 06:16:30 <jasta> the rest of the project is written in glib, so has no problem porting to those platforms without modification
Apr 30 06:18:29 <jasta> i actually wonder how google desktop implements this
Apr 30 06:18:32 <jasta> what type of templating they use
Apr 30 06:20:59 <jasta> the string literals are compiled right into libgdl.so?  wow.
Apr 30 06:21:07 <jasta> did not see that coming ;)
Apr 30 06:21:18 <gambler> is there channel logs for this channel stored anywhere
Apr 30 06:21:31 <jasta> gambler: have you tried googling?  otherwise, i doubt it.
Apr 30 06:23:05 <jasta> http://code.google.com/p/google-ctemplate/
Apr 30 06:23:06 <jasta> interesting.
Apr 30 06:30:40 <jasta> this might just work.  will need to provide some C wrappers though
Apr 30 06:30:58 <duey> why not just use c++...
Apr 30 06:31:09 <jasta> because I hate C++
Apr 30 06:31:14 <duey> .....
Apr 30 06:31:16 <jasta> and there's already 6000 lines of C written in my server.
Apr 30 06:34:13 <jasta> this project may be a bit unnecessary really
Apr 30 06:34:22 <jasta> they seem to solve a lot of problems with it that are not that difficult to solve anyway :)
Apr 30 06:34:31 * jasta checks to see that their parser is at least efficient
Apr 30 06:34:59 <jasta> bunch of goofy portability code in here that glib makes redundant
Apr 30 06:44:41 <duey> jasta, i doubt it matters if its not efficient
Apr 30 06:44:46 <duey> not like your getting hit millions of times
Apr 30 06:45:43 <jasta> if i'm gonna futz with reusing their code i want to at least know that it's better than something i could whip up in a day ;)
Apr 30 06:45:57 <jasta> it does seem to use an efficient state machine parser.  i suppose i will trust it.
Apr 30 06:46:50 <jasta> bbl
Apr 30 06:46:55 <jasta> sleep :)
Apr 30 06:54:14 <Hai-Fai> morning
Apr 30 07:53:20 <acsia> muthu: how are you doing?
Apr 30 07:53:23 <acsia> long time no see
Apr 30 07:53:29 <muthu> acsia: cool
Apr 30 07:53:31 <muthu> am doing good
Apr 30 07:53:36 <muthu> where were you?
Apr 30 07:53:51 <muthu> i'm on this channel everyday
Apr 30 07:54:01 <acsia> well, while working on android, I did put my real job on the side so I had to catch up a lot
Apr 30 07:54:17 <acsia> and decide to put all android on the side
Apr 30 07:54:52 <muthu> how you feel about your app?
Apr 30 07:57:36 <acsia> not sure anymore...
Apr 30 07:57:38 <acsia> :)
Apr 30 07:57:52 <acsia> I met chomchom btw
Apr 30 07:58:18 <acsia> in london, it was nice
Apr 30 07:58:33 <acsia> I need to get back to my  app
Apr 30 07:58:36 <acsia> i ll do it this week end
Apr 30 07:59:45 <duey> dday approaches
Apr 30 08:05:21 <muthu> DDAY!!
Apr 30 11:08:15 <muthu> May 1 - is it an holiday everywhere?
Apr 30 11:08:37 <ligi> muthu: i dont think everywhere
Apr 30 11:08:41 <ligi> but here it is
Apr 30 11:08:46 <edcba> see wikipedia
Apr 30 11:08:47 <muthu> and here it is
Apr 30 11:08:51 <edcba> it's written in it
Apr 30 11:08:53 <muthu> i'm lazy, tell me
Apr 30 11:08:59 <edcba> i don't remember
Apr 30 11:09:03 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 11:09:06 <ligi> lol
Apr 30 11:09:17 <davidw> not in the US
Apr 30 11:09:20 <davidw> in most of europe it is
Apr 30 11:09:22 <ligi> muthu: how's this day called in India?
Apr 30 11:09:27 <edcba> but i know it's written i checkd less than a month ago
Apr 30 11:09:45 <muthu> ligi: May 1 is workers day
Apr 30 11:10:02 <ligi> here it is "day of liberty
Apr 30 11:10:06 <ligi> labour
Apr 30 11:10:09 <ligi> i mean
Apr 30 11:10:10 <ligi> ^^
Apr 30 11:10:11 <muthu> May 1 - Labour Day
Apr 30 11:10:18 <muthu> right
Apr 30 11:10:33 <muthu> we use different names in different states
Apr 30 11:10:45 <muthu> davidw:  not in US?
Apr 30 11:10:49 <davidw> nope
Apr 30 11:11:00 <muthu> hmmm
Apr 30 11:11:13 <muthu> thought there was a labor day or something in US
Apr 30 11:11:21 <muthu> i know there's a long weekend in May
Apr 30 11:12:19 <muthu> May 5 is an holiday ? ;)
Apr 30 11:13:50 <ligi> ^^
Apr 30 11:14:05 <ligi> depends on some judges
Apr 30 11:14:07 <ligi> ^^
Apr 30 11:14:31 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 11:14:39 <muthu> the judges will be on vacation for sure
Apr 30 12:23:12 <jasta> hmm, ya know
Apr 30 12:23:31 <muthu> jasta: mornin
Apr 30 12:23:44 <jasta> looking at my server log here, it does sort of look like there were 4 attempts to use the app but the first 2 were unsuccessful
Apr 30 12:23:56 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 30 12:24:04 <muthu> the last 2 is ok right?
Apr 30 12:24:10 <jasta> there are no errors reported, they just started then disappeared.  like the emulator was closed or something.
Apr 30 12:24:22 <jasta> and the latter 2, which happened a day or two later, worked.
Apr 30 12:24:34 <muthu> ok so only 2 judges tested
Apr 30 12:24:54 <jasta> i'm not sure how to interpret this knowing that there are supposedly 4 judges, or 5 if you might win.
Apr 30 12:25:11 <jasta> since this kind of indicates 2 had unsuccessful tests and therefore i didn't make it into the top 100.
Apr 30 12:25:32 <jasta> in other words, it's looking like my app never got retested, when it doesn't look to be my fault that the first two tests failed.
Apr 30 12:25:39 <muthu> hmm
Apr 30 12:25:48 <muthu> they may hit again
Apr 30 12:25:58 <jasta> yeaahhh, but what if they don't?
Apr 30 12:26:11 <muthu> if they don't.. your app is in trouble
Apr 30 12:26:12 <jasta> duey's reported 5 unique hits to his server already, since the judging started.
Apr 30 12:26:33 <jasta> i'd be mighty pissed if they didn't come back and retest considering my system reports no errors.
Apr 30 12:26:46 <muthu> i know
Apr 30 12:26:50 <jasta> and it would, too.  error reporting is part of the protocol.
Apr 30 12:27:14 <jasta> the only way the server could not report an error in the session is if the remote peer simply disappeared, or the app crashed which has certainly happened during testing
Apr 30 12:27:21 <jasta> like, SIGSEGV or SIGILL.  not my fault.
Apr 30 12:27:21 <muthu> i wonder what morrill has to say about this?
Apr 30 12:27:29 <jasta> that's what i was wondering about.
Apr 30 12:27:35 <muthu> did you im him?
Apr 30 12:27:41 <jasta> not yet, but i will today
Apr 30 12:27:46 <muthu> cool do that
Apr 30 12:28:14 <ligi> jasta: everything will work out fine ..
Apr 30 12:28:14 <jasta> i would be very pissed off if i lost because of emulator bugs or whatever.
Apr 30 12:28:21 <ligi> just give them more time
Apr 30 12:28:33 <ligi> easy
Apr 30 12:28:42 <jasta> i could never explain those first two attempts until it occurred to me just now
Apr 30 12:28:54 <jasta> that there are 4 total, 2 of which went nowhere.
Apr 30 12:29:18 <muthu> if the judges results are skewed.. the apps will be rejudged
Apr 30 12:30:51 <ligi> we should have done a judging app ^^
Apr 30 12:31:00 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 12:31:13 <muthu> an app to judge the judges!
Apr 30 12:31:20 <jasta> muthu: you say a lot of things you just don't know, muthu.
Apr 30 12:31:37 <muthu> jasta: about the skewing part, i know
Apr 30 12:31:42 <muthu> it was clarified before
Apr 30 12:32:00 <jasta> by morrildl?
Apr 30 12:32:04 <muthu> yes
Apr 30 12:32:11 <muthu> its in the forums, let me find the link
Apr 30 12:32:13 <jasta> you mean specifically that if the app fails?
Apr 30 12:32:24 <jasta> or if there is a wide disparity between all the judges scores?
Apr 30 12:32:36 <muthu> disparity between scores
Apr 30 12:32:48 <muthu> and the disparity can happen if the applications fails too
Apr 30 12:33:12 <ligi> makes sense
Apr 30 12:33:13 <ligi> ^^
Apr 30 12:33:19 <jasta> that does seem sensible.
Apr 30 12:33:23 <ligi> 10.0 vs 0.0
Apr 30 12:33:28 <jasta> see if you can find the link, i have to go back to bed for now
Apr 30 12:33:30 <ligi> big disparity
Apr 30 12:33:37 <muthu> hang on
Apr 30 12:33:59 <ligi> it was on google groups as far as i remember
Apr 30 12:34:28 <ligi> jasta: for the waiting time: http://ligi-tec.blogspot.com/2008/04/quadrokopter-sunday-video.html
Apr 30 12:48:23 <vol_> I wish RemoteCallbackList had a getCount method or something
Apr 30 12:48:33 <muthu> jasta: http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/9a91f426422fed32/9b31c4cae6f2507a?lnk=st&q=#9b31c4cae6f2507a
Apr 30 12:48:36 <vol_> so that I don't have to begin a broadcast to know how many callbacks are still registered
Apr 30 12:48:42 <muthu> http://groups.google.com/group/android-challenge/browse_thread/thread/9a91f426422fed32/9b31c4cae6f2507a?lnk=st&q=#9b31c4cae6f2507a
Apr 30 12:48:57 <vol_> unless there's another way to know how many activities are still bound
Apr 30 12:49:16 <muthu> ok big chunk coming in
Apr 30 12:49:20 <muthu> This is correct.  We're providing rather detailed judging guidelinesintended to help judges calibrate their scores.  We also plan topost-process the results looking for outliers (such as cases where one judgegave a score that varies significantly from the others') to help make surethe results are fair.Panel size will be at least 3, depending on how many judges we have;currently the panel size is expected to be 4.
Apr 30 12:51:40 <vol_> additionally, it'd be nice to know if a notification is still in the status bar :\
Apr 30 14:49:47 <muthu> jasta: are you there?
Apr 30 14:50:10 <davidw> pretty early 'there'
Apr 30 14:51:05 <muthu> davidw: yeah, but jasta is in a bit of a trouble
Apr 30 14:51:14 <muthu> worried about his app hits
Apr 30 14:52:46 <davidw> why/
Apr 30 14:52:59 <muthu> he says he got only 2 valid hits
Apr 30 14:53:17 <muthu> the other 2 did not really use his app
Apr 30 14:53:37 <davidw> so when are they supposed to announce that anyway?
Apr 30 14:53:46 <muthu> may 5
Apr 30 14:53:51 <davidw> oh right
Apr 30 14:54:02 * davidw hopes the baby comes first... that'll give me something to do 
Apr 30 14:54:10 <muthu> davidw: when's the date?
Apr 30 14:54:20 <davidw> may 3rd, officially
Apr 30 14:54:26 <muthu> cool, is this the first?
Apr 30 14:54:29 <davidw> yeah
Apr 30 14:54:45 <muthu> it should be exciting then
Apr 30 14:54:53 <muthu> the first one is always special
Apr 30 14:55:09 <muthu> lot of joy assured
Apr 30 14:55:34 <muthu> am sure you'll not really worry about the results
Apr 30 15:08:22 <Dougie187> Good morning everyone.
Apr 30 15:08:38 <muthu> Dougie187: good evening
Apr 30 15:08:48 <Dougie187> Hows it going in india today/
Apr 30 15:08:50 <Dougie187> ?
Apr 30 15:11:31 <muthu> going great
Apr 30 15:11:36 <Dougie187> nice
Apr 30 15:11:42 <muthu> tomorrow is an holiday, so everyone happy mood
Apr 30 15:12:03 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 30 15:12:04 <muthu> Dougie187: May 1 holiday for you?
Apr 30 15:12:53 <Dougie187> nope
Apr 30 15:13:11 <Dougie187> may 5th,but we dont get anything off
Apr 30 15:13:29 <Dougie187> its mainly just an excuse to get drunk
Apr 30 15:13:37 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 15:38:08 <jasta> muthu: i went to bed, sorry
Apr 30 15:38:12 <jasta> that does seem promising
Apr 30 15:40:12 <muthu> jasta: yeah, that's the link
Apr 30 15:40:28 <jasta> lol, did you know Apple is having a sort of developer challenge for the iPhone?  the prizes are Apple products...
Apr 30 15:40:38 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 15:40:39 <Dougie187> lane
Apr 30 15:40:41 <Dougie187> lame
Apr 30 15:40:51 * davidw wouldn't mind winning an Android phone;-)
Apr 30 15:40:58 <muthu> they advertised like $100m
Apr 30 15:41:06 <davidw> I actually suggested that to Dan, that they give runners up coupons for phones or something
Apr 30 15:41:10 <Dougie187> lol, and their acronyms are both ADC
Apr 30 15:41:30 <jasta> muthu: how is that even possible?  they'd need to give away hundreds of thousands of prizes
Apr 30 15:41:49 <muthu> iFund or something like that
Apr 30 15:41:57 <Dougie187> a mac book air
Apr 30 15:41:59 <Dougie187> maybe 5 of those.
Apr 30 15:42:00 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 15:42:05 <Dougie187> theres your 100 mill already
Apr 30 15:42:14 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 15:42:25 <davidw> it's a KP fund, for 'iphone stuff'
Apr 30 15:42:31 <davidw> and it's "up to 100mil"
Apr 30 15:42:38 <davidw> so that could be 100$
Apr 30 15:42:38 <muthu> right
Apr 30 15:43:29 <muthu> don't want to get into apple closed circuit
Apr 30 15:44:01 * davidw worked for Linuxcare, once upon a time, which was a KP company
Apr 30 15:44:05 <davidw> no bueno:-/
Apr 30 15:44:11 <Dougie187> what is KP?
Apr 30 15:44:55 <davidw> Kleiner Perkins
Apr 30 15:45:01 <davidw> a big venture capital group in the bay area
Apr 30 15:45:46 <Dougie187> http://www.kpcb.com/initiatives/ifund/index.html
Apr 30 15:49:28 <davidw> bingo
Apr 30 15:53:28 <jasta> muthu: not really in the spirit of prize money at all.  this other thing i saw is referring to prizes.
Apr 30 15:53:44 <jasta> this is an industry building investment fund.
Apr 30 16:06:38 <Dougie187> im excited to see who will win the ADC
Apr 30 16:06:41 <Dougie187> (not the apple one)
Apr 30 16:08:45 <jasta> me too
Apr 30 16:09:45 <Dougie187> heh i bet you are.
Apr 30 16:10:37 <muthu> Dougie187: we are all excited and waiting for the results
Apr 30 16:10:56 <Dougie187> well it doesnt matter as much to me as it does to all of you.
Apr 30 16:11:02 <Dougie187> but im excited to see the apps that come out of it
Apr 30 16:13:19 <jasta> i just really figured they'd be done by now
Apr 30 16:13:35 <jasta> and would just have some time to sit around thinking about the results before they publish them
Apr 30 16:14:16 <jasta> i really am more anxious to just know that my app performed as it was supposed to for the judges
Apr 30 16:14:24 <jasta> then i could stop stressing
Apr 30 16:14:53 <muthu> there's no way of we knowing that
Apr 30 16:15:06 <jasta> i will
Apr 30 16:15:26 <jasta> the server will know when it is working right
Apr 30 16:16:35 <muthu> jasta: then you know by now
Apr 30 16:17:09 <jasta> no, i dont, because as i said there were 2 incomplete attempts :)
Apr 30 16:18:02 <muthu> right
Apr 30 16:18:09 <davidw> yeah, that kind of stressed me about hte server based app I did too
Apr 30 16:18:18 <davidw> it's not just "turn it in and cross your fingers"
Apr 30 16:18:29 <davidw> it's "turn it in and hope there's nothing wrong with the server for the next month"
Apr 30 16:20:10 <jasta> exactly
Apr 30 16:20:21 <jasta> i just want to know that all the judges got to see the app the way it was intended
Apr 30 16:20:24 <jasta> and it looks like 2 did not
Apr 30 16:20:35 <jasta> but if morrildl is right, the judges will go back and retry i guess
Apr 30 16:20:40 <jasta> just seems like theyre running out of time
Apr 30 16:21:45 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:25:47 <jasta> ?
Apr 30 16:26:15 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:26:26 <jasta> hey dan
Apr 30 16:27:03 <jasta> morrildl: is the plan still to detect outliers and retest them?  say, if some of the judges got errors or whatever but others did not?
Apr 30 16:27:10 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:27:42 <convivial> any andriod jobs avail for immediate grabs?
Apr 30 16:28:04 <jasta> convivial: i'm sure there are a few.  have you searched?
Apr 30 16:28:08 <davidw> convivial, there are people out there who are interested, yeah
Apr 30 16:28:19 <convivial> coolies, i really needies ojne.
Apr 30 16:28:26 * davidw got a nice gig by being active early on, so it worked out for me to some degree in any case
Apr 30 16:28:32 <jasta> convivial: well, do you know Android at all?
Apr 30 16:28:41 <convivial> jasta: still learning :(
Apr 30 16:28:49 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:28:50 <convivial> but I am from the J2ME world!
Apr 30 16:28:56 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:28:56 <jasta> morick: shut up, please.
Apr 30 16:29:02 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:29:13 <convivial> so, I am experience with mobile java but not android api per se
Apr 30 16:29:23 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:29:30 <jasta> convivial: android's API is a pretty significant piece of the puzzle.
Apr 30 16:29:34 * davidw calls in an air strike on morick 
Apr 30 16:29:37 <convivial> I am willing to work at 20-25 per hour
Apr 30 16:29:39 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:29:52 <convivial> has to be someone willing to jump at that
Apr 30 16:30:00 <jasta> convivial: well, go searching then.  perhpas you will be able to convince some poor guy that you're qualified.
Apr 30 16:30:02 <davidw> convivial, look
Apr 30 16:30:11 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:30:27 <convivial> jasta: what do you mean by that?
Apr 30 16:30:30 <jasta> do we have any ops in this channel?  i think it's time to show morick the door.
Apr 30 16:30:35 <convivial> why wouldn't I be qualified?
Apr 30 16:30:45 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:30:49 <convivial> I'm smart, been programming for 15 years in general
Apr 30 16:30:58 <convivial> done mobile programming before
Apr 30 16:31:04 <jasta> convivial: right, but i doubt you're qualified.
Apr 30 16:31:08 <jasta> call it a hunch.
Apr 30 16:31:20 <convivial> jasta: i don't understand what you mean by that
Apr 30 16:31:25 <jasta> or that last time i saw you speak in here you were trolling like a maddened fool.
Apr 30 16:31:28 <convivial> jasta: are yu saying i am stupid?
Apr 30 16:31:32 <jasta> call it that instead.
Apr 30 16:31:37 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:32:46 <jasta> bbl, work
Apr 30 16:33:04 <morick> so you never went bowling with goebbels either?
Apr 30 16:35:47 <convivial> would an XML parser + dtd code generator be a good library for android?
Apr 30 16:35:49 * donomo claps
Apr 30 16:36:14 <convivial> I noticed that asdk uses javax.sax i don't like that
Apr 30 16:36:19 <convivial> in j2me i used kxml
Apr 30 16:36:29 <donomo> convivial: aren't DTDs dead?
Apr 30 16:36:45 <convivial> donomo: sorry, wsdl :)
Apr 30 16:36:46 <convivial> ehehehe
Apr 30 16:36:55 <convivial> wsdl code generator
Apr 30 16:37:24 <morrildl> jasta: the plan is to detect outliers and address them, which may or may not involve a retest
Apr 30 16:37:26 <convivial> I would also write a tool that can generate code from wsdl... sorry, don't inow why i say DTD
Apr 30 16:37:38 <morrildl> oh, he left
Apr 30 16:37:40 <morrildl> hehehe
Apr 30 16:38:03 <convivial> what do you guys think about my idea?
Apr 30 16:38:44 <convivial> or is the community happy with android XML parsing capabilities?
Apr 30 16:40:51 <convivial> the only response i got was to point out a typo. does that mean it's a good idea?
Apr 30 16:45:52 <davidw> two points for morrildl
Apr 30 16:46:39 <convivial> i must be on ignore
Apr 30 16:46:53 <convivial> i'll go to undernet android channel
Apr 30 16:47:12 <jasta> that guy bothers me.
Apr 30 16:47:29 <Dougie187> jasta did you read what morrildl said?
Apr 30 16:47:34 <jasta> yeah
Apr 30 16:47:36 <Dougie187> k
Apr 30 16:47:47 <jasta> morrildl: you guys on schedule still?  seems like it's really getting down to the wire...
Apr 30 16:48:07 <morrildl> jasta: so far, so good
Apr 30 16:48:21 <morrildl> We have done the reduction down to the "first cut" 100
Apr 30 16:48:38 <morrildl> and those 100 are now being reviewed by the second-pass judges to narrow down to the final 50
Apr 30 16:48:43 <jasta> seriously?  uhhhhhh.
Apr 30 16:48:51 <jasta> i have had 2 judges review my app
Apr 30 16:49:22 <jasta> how can that be possible?
Apr 30 16:49:50 <morrildl> well, *I* have looked at it twice personally, and I know Romain did at least once
Apr 30 16:49:58 <jasta> i didn't count those attempts.
Apr 30 16:50:07 <jasta> i counted only attempts after i knew you released the laptops to the judges.
Apr 30 16:50:18 <jasta> ...and there are definitely 2.
Apr 30 16:50:20 <jasta> JUST 2.
Apr 30 16:50:57 <jasta> there have been 4 attempts: 2 of which, the first two, just disappeared as though they closed the app and dismissed it while it was syncing.
Apr 30 16:51:02 <jasta> the other 2 continued on and used it.
Apr 30 16:51:13 <jasta> are you saying you didn't detect *that* as an outliar!?
Apr 30 16:51:35 <Dougie187> well you might be in the top 100
Apr 30 16:51:41 <Dougie187> maybe it only required two attempts
Apr 30 16:51:45 <jasta> how could that be if 2 of the judges never even used it?
Apr 30 16:52:00 <Dougie187> maybe the other two reviews were so good it just got put in
Apr 30 16:52:21 <davidw> jasta, maybe they each get to pick one that goes directly to the finals
Apr 30 16:52:21 <jasta> i really doubt that even 2 10 point scores would outweight 2 0 point scores.
Apr 30 16:52:53 <davidw> jasta, maybe the judges are all deaf and don't care about music at all - they just use phones for text messaging
Apr 30 16:53:08 <jasta> i am really nervous about this.  i fully expected to see 4 successful attempts at the very least before being written off either as the top 100 or not.
Apr 30 16:53:18 <morrildl> jasta: I checked, and you have 4 scores, none indicating broken/incomplete
Apr 30 16:53:20 <davidw> jasta, have a nice glass of red wine
Apr 30 16:53:39 <jasta> morrildl: and none outliars?  what the *HELL*
Apr 30 16:54:16 <morrildl> jasta: they all agree with each other pretty well
Apr 30 16:54:27 <jasta> that is so bizarre.
Apr 30 16:54:32 <davidw> ouch... I'd rather think of this thing as abstract, rather than that someone could tell me in a minute or two what's up
Apr 30 16:54:34 <morrildl> there is no one score that says "hey I blew this guy off"
Apr 30 16:54:35 <jasta> i swear to you there are only 2 successful usages.
Apr 30 16:55:13 <jasta> oh man, i am freaking out
Apr 30 16:55:16 <jasta> time to go to work anyway
Apr 30 16:55:18 <jasta> aggggh
Apr 30 16:55:35 <davidw> take it easy man:-)
Apr 30 16:56:53 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 16:57:03 <Dougie187> i would think he would be happy
Apr 30 16:58:06 <davidw> yeah...
Apr 30 17:01:22 <davidw> hi pandora--
Apr 30 17:03:55 <pandora--> hey hey
Apr 30 17:15:30 <davidw> hah... these guys, to send me a pdf, need my mailing address...:-)
Apr 30 17:18:49 <jasta> Dougie187: why?  this sounds like bad news!
Apr 30 17:19:06 <Dougie187> How does it sound like bad news?
Apr 30 17:19:13 <Dougie187> you have 2 more things then you thought.
Apr 30 17:19:16 <Dougie187> and they could be great
Apr 30 17:19:32 <jasta> no, because I know that the two judges who originally connected did not complete the sync.
Apr 30 17:19:46 <Dougie187> so, does that mean they cant play with the app though?
Apr 30 17:19:51 <jasta> So they were reviewing an app they didn't know to be incomplete :\
Apr 30 17:19:57 <jasta> It would be missing data.
Apr 30 17:20:06 <jasta> like album artwork and whatever.  and i didn't build the UI to handle that very gracefully
Apr 30 17:20:06 <Dougie187> i think they kinda went into it knowing it would be incomplete.
Apr 30 17:20:15 <jasta> also, if they started playing with the app while it was syncing it would be slow as hell
Apr 30 17:20:26 <Dougie187> phase two was to make the incompleteness of each app better.
Apr 30 17:20:47 <Dougie187> what if it stopped syncing and then they played with it.
Apr 30 17:20:50 <Dougie187> like the sync failed.
Apr 30 17:20:51 <jasta> but that said, morrildl says they're already in the final 100.  i haven't seen any connects, so it's likely i'm not in that group :(
Apr 30 17:20:55 <Dougie187> what would be the downside?
Apr 30 17:21:08 <Dougie187> I wouldnt worry yet.
Apr 30 17:21:12 <Dougie187> dont be a debbie downer.
Apr 30 17:21:22 <jasta> Dougie187: like i said, it oculd be missing data.  like albums wouldn't have track data, or might be missing cover artwork
Apr 30 17:21:28 <jasta> so you'd click an album and it would do nothing
Apr 30 17:21:45 <muthu> jasta: are the judges into final 100?
Apr 30 17:21:51 <jasta> it was supposed to be atomic and the UI presents itself like that.  it isn't actually, though, because content providers dont support that currently
Apr 30 17:21:58 <jasta> muthu: thats why dan just said
Apr 30 17:21:58 <davidw> jasta, he basically told you it got good reviews
Apr 30 17:21:59 <Dougie187> Does it make it so they cant see the idea and functionality of your app?
Apr 30 17:22:06 <jasta> davidw: he did?
Apr 30 17:22:08 <Dougie187> yes
Apr 30 17:22:17 <davidw> <morrildl> there is no one score that says "hey I blew this guy off"
Apr 30 17:22:18 <jasta> why do i misinterpret everything dan says?
Apr 30 17:22:46 <Dougie187> because your paranoid
Apr 30 17:22:48 <davidw> because you are way too wound up?
Apr 30 17:22:51 <jasta> but how is that necessarily good?  they don't need to blow me off to give me a bad score.
Apr 30 17:22:56 <muthu> jasta: you are paranoid!!
Apr 30 17:22:57 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:22:59 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:23:03 <Dougie187> you are thinking they are the worst scores.
Apr 30 17:23:05 <Dougie187> just relax
Apr 30 17:23:07 <davidw> looks like we have a verdict;-)
Apr 30 17:23:16 <Dougie187> you wont know if you are not in the group until they let you know.
Apr 30 17:23:23 <Dougie187> until then. just think you have a chance.
Apr 30 17:23:27 <Dougie187> dont worry about your numbers. or anything
Apr 30 17:23:33 <jasta> Dougie187: well except that my server should liven up once more.
Apr 30 17:23:35 <muthu> a music player is something that must win
Apr 30 17:23:36 <Dougie187> you have 4 scores. all which agree with each other.
Apr 30 17:23:52 <Dougie187> why? maybe they dont retest apps for the reduction from 100 to 50
Apr 30 17:23:58 <Dougie187> maybe its just evaluating the reviews again
Apr 30 17:24:02 <Dougie187> more throughly
Apr 30 17:24:07 <michaelnovakjr__> isn't this all just speculation?
Apr 30 17:24:12 <Dougie187> yes
Apr 30 17:24:16 <Dougie187> thats why im telling him to calm down
Apr 30 17:24:19 <michaelnovakjr__> going to drive yourselves nuts!
Apr 30 17:24:35 * davidw wouldn't bet against google also looking to hire people who do really cool stuff
Apr 30 17:24:43 <michaelnovakjr__> no one will know until they announce it, so sit back grab a beer and take a really long nap
Apr 30 17:24:44 <muthu> davidw: spot on
Apr 30 17:24:50 <Dougie187> exactaly .
Apr 30 17:24:56 <Dougie187> thats what im trying to tell him
Apr 30 17:24:56 <michaelnovakjr__> probably nap until monday :)
Apr 30 17:24:57 * jasta rip shis hair out and runs around
Apr 30 17:25:00 <Dougie187> dont worry about everything.
Apr 30 17:25:01 <muthu> there would be a lot of hires from ADC submissions
Apr 30 17:25:01 <davidw> that might be another consolation prize, for some people
Apr 30 17:25:02 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:25:17 <davidw> muthu, well, who knows with google, but I could see it
Apr 30 17:25:27 <Dougie187> maybe thats what the 250k is
Apr 30 17:25:31 <Dougie187> your starting salary.
Apr 30 17:25:31 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:25:35 <michaelnovakjr__> except that your app doesn't show coding ability..... you could be one complete hack mess and still get something to look good
Apr 30 17:25:36 <muthu> lol
Apr 30 17:25:52 <Dougie187> but dont they get to look through the code?
Apr 30 17:25:56 <michaelnovakjr__> no
Apr 30 17:25:56 <muthu> nope
Apr 30 17:25:59 <Dougie187> also, they might be looking for just an idea person
Apr 30 17:26:04 <davidw> yeah right
Apr 30 17:26:05 <michaelnovakjr__> i could see that
Apr 30 17:26:08 <muthu> they need not.. why would anyone look at code?
Apr 30 17:26:08 <davidw> no one wants 'idea people';-)
Apr 30 17:26:14 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 17:26:17 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:26:18 <michaelnovakjr__> i have an idea
Apr 30 17:26:34 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: well, but that problem is persistent even through the hiring process.
Apr 30 17:26:50 <jasta> big companies like google screw up their interviews constantly.  they structure them like a CS test, and not like a real exercise.
Apr 30 17:27:04 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta that is true
Apr 30 17:27:05 <muthu> heard google interview is a big mess
Apr 30 17:27:19 <jasta> how well you can answer CS-type questions has little bearing on how likely you are to write a 900 line function.
Apr 30 17:27:29 <muthu> right
Apr 30 17:27:30 <michaelnovakjr__> true
Apr 30 17:27:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i'd love to work for google :)
Apr 30 17:27:41 <muthu> and they have like 10 levels!!
Apr 30 17:27:50 <jasta> and the latter is much more detrimental to their code base than someone who writes an inefficient piece of code.
Apr 30 17:27:50 <michaelnovakjr__> and i am really anal about my code!!
Apr 30 17:28:03 <jasta> though they both are not good ;)
Apr 30 17:28:16 <michaelnovakjr__> i am a code optimization nerd!
Apr 30 17:28:41 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: oh oh
Apr 30 17:28:59 <davidw> muthu, the guy at the last level breathes fire.  You have to do your special move like 10 times to get by him
Apr 30 17:29:08 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:29:12 <muthu> lol
Apr 30 17:29:28 <michaelnovakjr__> haaa
Apr 30 17:30:15 <muthu> i'll hire by intution
Apr 30 17:30:28 <michaelnovakjr__> gotta like the person too though
Apr 30 17:30:44 <michaelnovakjr__> i like working with people that have a sense of humor and don't take everything you say as gospel
Apr 30 17:31:03 <muthu> right
Apr 30 17:31:12 <muthu> need some healthy discussions
Apr 30 17:31:19 <muthu> hate when people just nod
Apr 30 17:31:33 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, and when you crack a joke look at you as if they were stone
Apr 30 17:32:14 <jasta> a lot of software engineers at least around Seattle have great personalities
Apr 30 17:32:17 <muthu> android is the best thing to come out of google
Apr 30 17:32:23 <jasta> many of them are not what you'd expect.
Apr 30 17:33:06 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, totally... i have come cross more cool developers than annoying ones
Apr 30 17:34:42 <muthu> any chance we know the top 100?
Apr 30 17:35:05 <michaelnovakjr__> doubt it
Apr 30 17:35:19 <muthu> any clues so far?
Apr 30 17:35:19 <michaelnovakjr__> it might piss off people 51-100
Apr 30 17:35:27 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:35:33 <michaelnovakjr__> especially 51 on the list
Apr 30 17:35:52 <michaelnovakjr__> i'd choke someone if i found out i was 51
Apr 30 17:35:59 <muthu> lol
Apr 30 17:36:10 <muthu> but who gave this top 100 idea?
Apr 30 17:36:30 <muthu> i thought, you pick 50 from 1788
Apr 30 17:36:41 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: no idea.... its 50
Apr 30 17:36:55 <muthu> ok
Apr 30 17:37:07 <muthu> there are 100 judges
Apr 30 17:37:15 <muthu> that's the top 100!
Apr 30 17:38:11 <romainguy_> morrildl: We have done the reduction down to the "first cut" 100
Apr 30 17:38:11 <romainguy_> [09:48am] morrildl: and those 100 are now being reviewed by the second-pass judges to narrow down to the final 50
Apr 30 17:38:28 <muthu> oh, i missed that
Apr 30 17:38:31 <muthu> romainguy_: thanks
Apr 30 17:39:00 <michaelnovakjr__> keep an eye out on your severs :)
Apr 30 17:39:01 <jasta> morrildl: hey do you think you'll be able to leak our scoresa fter the results are out? :)
Apr 30 17:39:08 <jasta> or will we get them?
Apr 30 17:39:08 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 17:39:51 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:39:53 <muthu> 100 filtered out of 1788.. this is getting exciting already
Apr 30 17:40:02 <Dougie187> i would think you wouldnt get your score.
Apr 30 17:40:36 <muthu> can someone poke me privately, if i'm in 100 :-))
Apr 30 17:40:42 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:40:53 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:41:10 <muthu> it wouldn't be illegal btw
Apr 30 17:41:20 <michaelnovakjr__> what would be illegal?
Apr 30 17:41:23 <muthu> oh oh
Apr 30 17:41:28 <muthu> no poke yet!!!
Apr 30 17:41:30 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:43:48 <muthu> jasta: are you getting any hits now?
Apr 30 17:45:39 <Dougie187> just so you guys know. mario kart wii is really fun
Apr 30 17:46:57 <davidw> jasta, how about now?
Apr 30 17:47:45 <muthu> jasta: now?
Apr 30 17:47:52 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 17:47:57 <muthu> this is really fun
Apr 30 17:48:09 <michaelnovakjr__> uh oh, he hasn't answered
Apr 30 17:48:11 <jasta> you know i actually was not one of those people that obsessively watched my server
Apr 30 17:48:19 <jasta> i dont even have the monitor up right now
Apr 30 17:48:27 <muthu> jasta: now that we know
Apr 30 17:48:33 <muthu> you need to watch it closely
Apr 30 17:48:47 <jasta> nah.  i'll know if it gets hit.
Apr 30 17:48:59 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 17:49:02 <jasta> you know, duey claims he got 5 hits btw ;)
Apr 30 17:49:15 <muthu> duey is a winner
Apr 30 17:49:19 <Dougie187> well you claim to have 2 reviews
Apr 30 17:49:41 <jasta> i would vote for duey's app
Apr 30 17:49:43 <jasta> i think its cool
Apr 30 17:50:00 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah, but morrildl claims i have 4.  i have no idea how that is possible.
Apr 30 17:50:07 <jasta> i show 4 attempts, but only 2 successful ones.  meh.
Apr 30 17:50:54 <davidw> which is duey's?
Apr 30 17:51:15 <muthu> duey did a cool OCR
Apr 30 17:51:40 <jasta> davidw: it's a translation service that lets you take a photo of some text and it'll translate it for you
Apr 30 17:51:45 <davidw> neat
Apr 30 17:51:52 <jasta> it only works with english as a source language for now, but could be trained for other languages
Apr 30 17:51:57 <jasta> could be a great tool for european travelers
Apr 30 17:53:04 <muthu> the apps are not categorized btw
Apr 30 17:53:56 <jasta> i know
Apr 30 17:54:14 <jasta> we could have 50 social networking services win.  which would be *lame* :)
Apr 30 17:54:19 <muthu> yeah
Apr 30 17:54:29 <muthu> it was a surprise for me too
Apr 30 17:55:06 <muthu> but you know.. the judges would hate to do that
Apr 30 17:55:53 <jasta> yeah, i think they will protect themselves against that without it being explicitly worked into the rules
Apr 30 17:56:02 <jasta> doesn't help them any to do that.
Apr 30 17:56:26 <davidw> I don't see that in any case because it doesn't show off the phone that much
Apr 30 17:56:34 <davidw> loopt already does the mobile/social thing
Apr 30 17:56:37 <davidw> as do others
Apr 30 17:58:03 <jasta> you know i have a bunch of friends that work there?
Apr 30 17:58:09 <jasta> one of them at least is coming with me to I/O
Apr 30 17:58:34 <michaelnovakjr__> you all have me paranoid now
Apr 30 17:58:50 <michaelnovakjr__> i am greping my server logs now to see activity for the first time ever!
Apr 30 17:59:41 <muthu> lol
Apr 30 18:01:13 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 18:01:20 <Dougie187> you guys need to calm the f down
Apr 30 18:10:29 <michaelnovakjr__> i got a hit yesterday, but i can't remember if it was me!
Apr 30 18:10:56 <michaelnovakjr__> i think i was playing call of duty at that time, gggrrr
Apr 30 18:12:55 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 18:13:07 <michaelnovakjr__> woah
Apr 30 18:13:18 <michaelnovakjr__> they were definitely testing it on saturday
Apr 30 18:14:07 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: any recent hits?
Apr 30 18:14:16 <michaelnovakjr__> the 26th
Apr 30 18:14:29 <muthu> ok
Apr 30 18:14:37 <muthu> when the 100 got finalized?
Apr 30 18:14:46 <michaelnovakjr__> no idea
Apr 30 18:15:03 <muthu> guess its as of today
Apr 30 18:16:27 <michaelnovakjr__> it was definitely a tester, there are only two people with the apk and neither of us sat in front of a computer saturday
Apr 30 18:16:56 <muthu> ok
Apr 30 18:17:31 <michaelnovakjr__> romainguy when did dan talk about the top 100?
Apr 30 18:18:42 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: today
Apr 30 18:19:30 <muthu> i know it wasn't discussed before
Apr 30 18:19:56 <michaelnovakjr__> gr
Apr 30 18:20:19 <michaelnovakjr__> atleast it was hit recently
Apr 30 18:20:47 <muthu> it would be really disappointing for the losers
Apr 30 18:20:54 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
Apr 30 18:21:19 <muthu> i know atleast one soul which will cry
Apr 30 18:21:25 <muthu> :-(
Apr 30 18:21:39 <michaelnovakjr__> now i am getting antsy..... i should stay away from the irc until mondy
Apr 30 18:21:53 <muthu> haha
Apr 30 18:22:29 <muthu> it'll be hard.. but we should take it easy
Apr 30 18:22:54 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 18:23:13 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: will you continue, if you lose?
Apr 30 18:23:46 <michaelnovakjr__> i will, funding will become difficult but i will continue.... there was another tragic storm this week that killed people in the middle of the night
Apr 30 18:24:06 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: yours is such a useful app
Apr 30 18:24:07 <michaelnovakjr__> so I know my application can serve atleast some people that could really use it
Apr 30 18:24:13 <muthu> yeah
Apr 30 18:24:37 <michaelnovakjr__> i was a firefighter/emt before being a programmer so public service is kind of a no brainer
Apr 30 18:24:46 <muthu> wow
Apr 30 18:25:08 <muthu> firefighter / programmer - you must be something
Apr 30 18:25:10 <muthu> good luck
Apr 30 18:25:24 <michaelnovakjr__> thanks
Apr 30 18:25:42 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr__ you got mario kart wii?
Apr 30 18:25:50 <michaelnovakjr__> nope
Apr 30 18:25:53 <michaelnovakjr__> xbox
Apr 30 18:26:02 <Dougie187> halo?
Apr 30 18:26:21 <michaelnovakjr__> call of duty and halo
Apr 30 18:26:30 <muthu> LBS has really kindled peoples interest
Apr 30 18:26:36 <muthu> a lot of GPS apps
Apr 30 18:27:00 <muthu> http://www.xixiaohong.cn/default.asp
Apr 30 18:28:21 <muthu> oh wait
Apr 30 18:28:22 <muthu> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwSBLdGCjnY
Apr 30 18:30:16 <muthu> that's more like a movie btw
Apr 30 18:32:06 <Dougie187> do you play halo online?
Apr 30 18:32:13 <michaelnovakjr__> me?
Apr 30 18:32:16 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 30 18:32:19 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Apr 30 18:32:26 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't in a while since getting Call of Duty
Apr 30 18:34:08 <ligi> muthu: crazy stuff this duo thing
Apr 30 18:34:18 <muthu> ligi: oh yeah, big time
Apr 30 18:34:49 <muthu> i like the twist.. very innovative
Apr 30 18:35:45 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: What rank are you/
Apr 30 18:39:48 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187:  i forget
Apr 30 18:39:54 <Dougie187> ok
Apr 30 18:40:01 <michaelnovakjr__> i am lvl 30 in Call of Duty
Apr 30 18:42:32 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: do you play call of duty
Apr 30 18:43:29 <Dougie187> nope
Apr 30 18:44:17 <Dougie187> i only have halo and the orange box for my 360
Apr 30 18:44:21 <Dougie187> and i have a wii with a bunch of wii games
Apr 30 18:44:40 <michaelnovakjr__> you're missing out.  call of duty 4 is totally better than halop
Apr 30 18:45:45 <romainguy_> agreed :))
Apr 30 18:46:08 <poffy> I like CoD4 sometimes
Apr 30 18:46:12 <poffy> other times I like Halo 3
Apr 30 18:46:15 <poffy> other times I like TF2
Apr 30 18:46:20 <mnel_work> I mostly just play WoW occasionally if I have time.
Apr 30 18:46:25 * romainguy_ was talking about the solo experience only though
Apr 30 18:46:35 <poffy> Oh
Apr 30 18:46:42 <poffy> CoD4 single player > Halo 3 Singleplayer
Apr 30 18:47:36 <michaelnovakjr__> CoD 4 team deathmatch is awesome.... hardcore is better though :)
Apr 30 18:47:44 <poffy> Hardcore is the best
Apr 30 18:47:46 <romainguy_> Halo 3 is actually a poor solo game I found
Apr 30 18:47:49 <poffy> Search and Destroy
Apr 30 18:47:52 <romainguy_> anyway
Apr 30 18:47:55 <romainguy_> back to LinearLayout :)
Apr 30 18:48:07 <michaelnovakjr__> its just lame that in CoD you can't play with a guest on Live
Apr 30 18:48:14 <poffy> Yeah
Apr 30 18:48:28 <poffy> I'm loving the new Halo maps
Apr 30 18:48:29 <michaelnovakjr__> new maps are fun though :)
Apr 30 18:48:39 <poffy> New Sidewinder is <3
Apr 30 18:48:47 <jasta> i have never played Halo (any version) for more than 20 minutes
Apr 30 18:48:58 <jasta> i find the interface insulting.
Apr 30 18:49:02 <michaelnovakjr__> how about CoD jasta?
Apr 30 18:49:10 <jasta> nope
Apr 30 18:49:38 <jasta> i am very particular about my first person shooters.  first of all, keybaord and mouse for life.
Apr 30 18:49:47 <jasta> i used to compete in Quake3 tournaments hehe
Apr 30 18:49:48 <Dougie187> im not big on halo 3 single player.
Apr 30 18:49:51 <Dougie187> only multiplayer
Apr 30 18:49:53 <jasta> i'm ruthless ;)
Apr 30 18:49:54 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, but the xbox controller was very nicely designed for shooter games
Apr 30 18:50:07 <michaelnovakjr__> triggers and all
Apr 30 18:50:10 <jasta> let me put it another way.
Apr 30 18:50:45 <jasta> if you designed the exact same game to be played on an xbox with a typical controller, and on a PC with a keyboard/mouse.  And you put two skilled players in the arena with each, which do you think would win?
Apr 30 18:51:03 <jasta> And not just win.  Would you think it to would be an absolute blood bath?
Apr 30 18:51:08 <poffy> That's a good question
Apr 30 18:51:15 <michaelnovakjr__> hm, taking into account your previous statement.... i am guessing you'd say the computer guy
Apr 30 18:51:21 <jasta> I've seen competitive Halo play, and I've seen competitive FPS on a PC.  They are *NOTHING* alike.
Apr 30 18:51:30 <jasta> The Halo play is laughably slow, sloppy, and inaccurate.
Apr 30 18:51:46 <jasta> Competitive first-person shooters on a PC are incredible.  The players reach an unreal level of skill.
Apr 30 18:51:47 <michaelnovakjr__> Halo is, but I feel CoD is a bit different
Apr 30 18:52:03 <jasta> twitch-sniping enemies that are the size of a small dot on the screen.  things like that.
Apr 30 18:52:21 <michaelnovakjr__> sniping in halo is real
Apr 30 18:52:36 <jasta> like I said, I used to go to a lot of these sorts of tournaments.  I'd compete in the PC FPS games, and watch the console-based ones.  It was pathetic to see them side-by-side.
Apr 30 18:52:40 <michaelnovakjr__> CoD you get tired holding your gun steady, in halo its always steady
Apr 30 18:53:23 <jasta> I'm good relative to most people who play, but I'm nothing special in the tournaments.  That said, I feel like I could, with a keyboard/mouse, beat even the top players on the console games.
Apr 30 18:53:30 <jasta> Proof to me at least that the interface is _ALL WRONG_.
Apr 30 18:53:32 <poffy> I personally thing Unreal is ridiculous
Apr 30 18:53:39 <poffy> too fast
Apr 30 18:53:42 <poffy> too too fsat
Apr 30 18:53:46 <poffy> fast, even
Apr 30 18:54:15 <jasta> I like realism games too.  Like counter-strike.  But again, on a PC is the only way to play it.
Apr 30 18:54:24 <jasta> I'm also very good at CS if anyone is curious ;)
Apr 30 18:54:42 <jasta> I have a huge house and somehow have collected like 10 monitors in my closet.  We have big LAN parties at my house all the time hehe
Apr 30 18:54:43 <michaelnovakjr__> i can play Myst on my computer really well ;)
Apr 30 18:55:03 <jasta> at least one big one a year
Apr 30 18:55:07 <poffy> I've played CoD on computer, and honestly, I don't think I'd have much trouble if I was forced to play a PC player
Apr 30 18:55:19 <poffy> I think I could do well
Apr 30 18:55:20 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 18:55:24 <Dougie187> i like the wii a lot.
Apr 30 18:55:34 <michaelnovakjr__> too much movement for me
Apr 30 18:55:40 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 18:55:41 <jasta> poffy: Maybe that's true for CoD, I have never played it.  But for the games I have seen, like Halo, Quake, Unreal, etc it would be no contest.
Apr 30 18:55:47 <jasta> even a mediocre player on the PC could win.
Apr 30 18:56:11 <jasta> even the best Halo players i've seen at these tournaments would actually miss with sniper weapons.
Apr 30 18:56:20 <michaelnovakjr__> how?
Apr 30 18:56:24 <poffy> Well, I think you're comparing apples and oranges
Apr 30 18:56:27 <michaelnovakjr__> sniper is so easy
Apr 30 18:56:30 <michaelnovakjr__> on halo that i
Apr 30 18:56:30 <michaelnovakjr__> s
Apr 30 18:56:32 <poffy> Comparing the Halo players to Unreal players
Apr 30 18:56:36 <poffy> that's kinda difficult
Apr 30 18:56:42 <jasta> poffy: Not really, some of these games, like Unreal, even have console versions.
Apr 30 18:56:50 <jasta> And they turn on *AUTOAIM* because otherwise it would never work
Apr 30 18:57:01 <poffy> For the original Halo, I own PC and Xbox version
Apr 30 18:57:08 <jasta> Sure if you leave auto-aim on, I bet the console player would stand a chance.
Apr 30 18:57:09 <poffy> I could bet I could beat PC players easily
Apr 30 18:57:18 <jasta> But if you give the PC player auto-aim, omg :)
Apr 30 18:57:19 <poffy> I don't have auto-aim on
Apr 30 18:57:51 <poffy> oh oh oh
Apr 30 18:57:54 <jasta> poffy: There's a reason the game makers do not make the two versions server compatible.
Apr 30 18:57:54 <poffy> I know what you're talking about
Apr 30 18:57:56 <poffy> the tracking
Apr 30 18:58:09 <poffy> I hate the Halo 3 tracking
Apr 30 18:58:11 <jasta> Because the PC players would dominate and piss off everyone.
Apr 30 18:58:42 <jasta> as a side note, i had a friend who i used to go to these things with who would usually place 1st or 2nd...
Apr 30 18:58:54 <jasta> his accuracy with the rail gun in Quake3 was well over 90%.
Apr 30 18:59:01 <jasta> to see him miss was *VERY* rare.
Apr 30 18:59:17 <Stephmw> practicing against xaero made people that good :)
Apr 30 18:59:40 <Stephmw> LPB was a title I wore with pride too
Apr 30 18:59:54 <Stephmw> but meh, my Q2/Q3 days are long over
Apr 30 19:25:05 <f00f-> wow, this is very strange
Apr 30 19:25:08 <f00f-> zero hits to my server
Apr 30 19:25:13 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 19:25:16 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 19:25:27 <michaelnovakjr__> you sound shocked
Apr 30 19:25:27 <f00f-> but i sent dan a mail and he replied that my application has data from the judges... wtf?!
Apr 30 19:25:41 <Dougie187> sounds familiar
Apr 30 19:25:46 <michaelnovakjr__> zero hits total?
Apr 30 19:25:47 <f00f-> i don't understand. it's as if they removed web access completely from the judges' emulators?
Apr 30 19:25:52 <f00f-> nothing on the web server
Apr 30 19:26:01 <michaelnovakjr__> they didn't.... i know that for a fact
Apr 30 19:26:47 <michaelnovakjr__> my server was hit with actual data requests
Apr 30 19:27:13 <Dougie187> maybe they did from the apps that didnt need it?
Apr 30 19:27:14 <Dougie187> ionno
Apr 30 19:27:39 <f00f-> Dougie187: good point
Apr 30 19:28:04 <michaelnovakjr__> f00f-: did you give data with your apk?
Apr 30 19:28:10 <f00f-> yeah
Apr 30 19:28:21 <michaelnovakjr__> its possible they just used that then
Apr 30 19:28:40 <f00f-> but there is no options to 'select' local vs remote :P
Apr 30 19:28:51 <f00f-> local data is used as a fallback in case it can't connect
Apr 30 19:28:52 <michaelnovakjr__> so then what's the point of the data?
Apr 30 19:28:55 <michaelnovakjr__> ah
Apr 30 19:29:08 <f00f-> for emergencies, such as this, so i hope it worked
Apr 30 19:29:30 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 30 19:29:32 <Dougie187> im sure it worked fine
Apr 30 19:29:51 <Dougie187> everyone is freaking out about their apps
Apr 30 19:42:11 <jasta> arrrgggh
Apr 30 19:42:14 <jasta> i am in such a weird mood
Apr 30 19:43:26 <jasta> in the last couple of days i have become excessively impatient ;)
Apr 30 19:43:37 <michaelnovakjr__> me too
Apr 30 19:46:46 <f00f-> i think i am falling into a state of apathy
Apr 30 19:47:35 <Dougie187> that happens.
Apr 30 19:48:04 <michaelnovakjr__> if i lose the adc i'll have to find investors and charge 99 cents for the application
Apr 30 19:48:13 <michaelnovakjr__> kinda don't want to have to do that
Apr 30 19:48:23 <Dougie187> well. you might not have to as wlel.
Apr 30 19:48:24 <Dougie187> well
Apr 30 19:48:32 <Dougie187> keep in mind you might be able to put ads on the bottom.
Apr 30 19:48:40 <Dougie187> or get NOAA to adopt it
Apr 30 19:49:14 <michaelnovakjr__> i want to keep away from ads.... it seems inappropriate for this kind of app
Apr 30 19:49:34 <Dougie187> well which is more appropriate? charging for it, or putting ads on it?
Apr 30 19:50:05 <michaelnovakjr__> its tough
Apr 30 19:50:23 <f00f-> would people have it running constantly michaelnovakjr__ ?
Apr 30 19:50:30 <f00f-> or would they fire it up in emergencies
Apr 30 19:50:58 <michaelnovakjr__> it warns them of emergencies so its a constant thing
Apr 30 19:51:25 <f00f-> so it has like a Service that starts up a UI when a warning needs to be shown?
Apr 30 19:51:32 <michaelnovakjr__> but the time interval can be modified so when you are plugged in at night you can run it say every minute.. and during the day you can drop it to an hour or more... or not run it at all
Apr 30 19:51:39 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Apr 30 19:52:02 <michaelnovakjr__> there's the UI for displaying and configuring the app and then it runs based on the preferences
Apr 30 19:52:25 <Dougie187> you should make it change the time interval by itself
Apr 30 19:52:41 <Dougie187> maybe like the default is once an hour, or half hour or something
Apr 30 19:52:51 <michaelnovakjr__> i am planning on making that an option, where you can set the phone to be more responsive during high warning times
Apr 30 19:52:58 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 30 19:53:07 <Dougie187> like every 5 minutes until an alert is over
Apr 30 19:53:15 <Dougie187> and just set it based on when the alert says its going to end
Apr 30 19:53:15 <michaelnovakjr__> or times you are less likely to be alert
Apr 30 19:53:34 <Dougie187> yeah, like have a schedule that you are awake or something on it
Apr 30 19:54:19 <michaelnovakjr__> i am an optimization nerd, so battery and memory consumption are always a top priority
Apr 30 19:54:28 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 30 19:54:44 <Dougie187> i figured that the self-adjusting time interval would help with battery quite a bit
Apr 30 19:55:13 <michaelnovakjr__> i have made it my goal to create the application in a way where you can run it as often as you like and not worry about battery drain.... (this includes adding a push option :) )
Apr 30 19:55:32 <Dougie187> man i cant wait for my laptop to get back.
Apr 30 19:55:36 <Dougie187> i miss it already
Apr 30 19:55:44 <michaelnovakjr__> what kind of laptop?
Apr 30 19:55:47 <Dougie187> toshiba
Apr 30 19:55:50 <Dougie187> tablet pc
Apr 30 19:55:55 <Dougie187> though i dont use the tablet much
Apr 30 19:55:57 <michaelnovakjr__> linux
Apr 30 19:56:11 <Dougie187> yeah i put ubuntu on it
Apr 30 19:56:16 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Apr 30 19:56:18 <Dougie187> right now im using my wifes windows laptop
Apr 30 19:56:28 <Dougie187> it saddens me to use it
Apr 30 19:56:29 <michaelnovakjr__> ouch
Apr 30 19:56:29 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 19:57:40 <michaelnovakjr__> do we know if when the judges are testing each time they start from the install?
Apr 30 19:57:56 <michaelnovakjr__> or do they start using it after its on the emulator and continue using it?
Apr 30 19:59:59 <Dougie187> no idea.
Apr 30 20:00:11 <Dougie187> What kinda system are you running?
Apr 30 20:02:51 <michaelnovakjr__> i need call of duty to keep my mind off android
Apr 30 20:04:15 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:04:27 <Dougie187> what kinda system do you run michaelnovakjr__
Apr 30 20:05:54 <michaelnovakjr__> linux (ubuntu)
Apr 30 20:08:47 <Dougie187> nice
Apr 30 20:08:51 <Dougie187> you up to 8.04 yet?
Apr 30 20:11:06 <lummie> evening all
Apr 30 20:13:03 <Dougie187> good evening
Apr 30 20:19:36 <lummie> Boy the waiting is killing me.... roll on monday
Apr 30 20:20:54 <jerkface03> how much longer did they say it was going to be?
Apr 30 20:21:17 <Dougie187> i guess monday
Apr 30 20:21:28 <lummie> huh,  is it not the 5th
Apr 30 20:21:33 <lummie> !
Apr 30 20:21:37 <Dougie187> no i heard monday from other people
Apr 30 20:21:43 <Dougie187> i know it is the 5th though
Apr 30 20:21:55 <Dougie187> so its supposed to be monday
Apr 30 20:23:23 <lummie> Any of you guys seen assembla? Found it a few weeks ago.
Apr 30 20:25:44 <Dougie187> nope
Apr 30 20:25:54 <jasta> lummie: i'm thinking i did not even make it to the top 100 :(
Apr 30 20:26:00 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:26:04 <Dougie187> jasta. stop it.
Apr 30 20:26:08 <Dougie187> just wait until monday
Apr 30 20:26:18 <lummie> It's an SVN / project management where you can have private or public projects and its free
Apr 30 20:26:22 <jasta> if i win, i am gonna get so sloppy drunk on Monday night
Apr 30 20:26:27 <jasta> there's no way i'm goin tow rok Tuesday
Apr 30 20:26:37 <lummie> jasta: yeah it's a kill being a doubter...
Apr 30 20:27:26 <lummie> I hope they announce at 9am cause it's gonna be like 3 in the afternoon here....
Apr 30 20:27:44 <lummie> And it's a bank holiday, it's going to go so so slow
Apr 30 20:28:25 <jerkface03> well, a lot of  us are probably not going to be in the top 50, but i hope atleast they e-mail the scores we got
Apr 30 20:28:46 <jerkface03> that way i'll atleast know where i stood
Apr 30 20:28:53 <lummie> So are there any more rumours of hardware yet ?
Apr 30 20:29:01 <Dougie187> i could see the people who lose getting their scores. but not the winners.
Apr 30 20:29:04 <lummie> jerkface03: all ways say you don't know....
Apr 30 20:32:18 <michaelnovakjr__> only roughly 3% win
Apr 30 20:32:40 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr why do you try to make them more pessimistic?
Apr 30 20:32:44 <lummie> 1 in 35... sounds better
Apr 30 20:32:48 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 20:33:47 <lummie> optimist glass is half full..... pessimist glass is half empty.... android programmer, glass is designed too big and you need the mobile version.... :)
Apr 30 20:34:13 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 20:36:29 <jasta> as an aside, the glass is half full or empty is not a matter of perspective, it is a matter of causality.
Apr 30 20:36:51 <davidw> jasta, take a drunk picture and put it on the web "Thanks, Larry, thanks Sergey!"
Apr 30 20:37:06 <jasta> it is half empty is the last action performed was to drain; half full if it was to fill.
Apr 30 20:37:16 <lummie> as in I had a casual drink and now the glass is half empty
Apr 30 20:37:30 <jasta> half empty if*
Apr 30 20:37:35 <Dougie187> and.. jasta thinks about it too much
Apr 30 20:37:44 <jasta> lummie: Yes.  Or, I poured a glass half full of juice.  You didn't pour it half empty.
Apr 30 20:38:04 <jasta> It's a matter of order, not optimism :)
Apr 30 20:38:21 <lummie> the glass was too bloody big alright !!!!
Apr 30 20:38:31 <Dougie187> depends how much time you want to waste thinking about an old cliche
Apr 30 20:38:46 <jasta> very little, it's obvious ;0
Apr 30 20:38:51 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:38:57 <jasta> still, i am gonna be soooooooo tanked Monday ;)
Apr 30 20:39:01 <lummie> so about that horse that bolted......
Apr 30 20:39:02 <jasta> already setting it up right now
Apr 30 20:39:05 <jasta> walking to Teddy's
Apr 30 20:39:13 <jasta> *wasted*
Apr 30 20:39:15 <jasta> walking home ;0
Apr 30 20:39:27 <Dougie187> can you walk home wasted, though?
Apr 30 20:39:34 <jasta> uhm, yes.
Apr 30 20:40:12 <lummie> you can get a taxi home wasted.... ?
Apr 30 20:40:23 <Dougie187> true
Apr 30 20:40:25 <lummie> And you have to tpye the digits in the phone and all
Apr 30 20:40:34 <jasta> walking is easier when drunk.  it's like being on autopilot.  you just *become* home.
Apr 30 20:40:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i got pulled over for walking drunk
Apr 30 20:40:48 <jasta> me too, actually
Apr 30 20:40:51 <jasta> cops harrass you
Apr 30 20:41:07 <jasta> you can even be ticketed for riding a bicycle drunk hehe
Apr 30 20:41:07 <michaelnovakjr__> i told them my dad george bush would be proud of me!
Apr 30 20:41:15 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:41:32 <jasta> i once was caught in Canada walking to the club with a bottle of whiskey in a group of friends
Apr 30 20:42:03 <jasta> the cop walked up to us and said sternly, "Just so you know, the fine for littering is more than the fine for public drunkenness around here.  Make sure that bottle makes it to the recycling."
Apr 30 20:42:20 <jasta> and walked off.  it was awesome ;)
Apr 30 20:42:25 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:42:57 <lummie> ol
Apr 30 20:42:59 <lummie> lol
Apr 30 20:43:11 <lummie>  bloody l key
Apr 30 20:43:21 <Dougie187> they get you sometimes.
Apr 30 20:43:35 <Dougie187> I am not use to this keyboard yet, so I have to type a lot more carefully.
Apr 30 20:43:49 <Dougie187> though i tend not to.and then i misspell a lot of things.
Apr 30 20:43:57 <Dougie187> or replace spaces with periods.
Apr 30 20:44:58 <lummie> I've borrowed a mac book, whilst my acer is off for repair...
Apr 30 20:45:13 <lummie> keyboard is a night mare. stupid apple key..
Apr 30 20:45:18 <Dougie187> im borrowing my wifes laptop while mine is off to repair
Apr 30 20:45:29 <Dougie187> heh its kinda like how people complain about windows keys
Apr 30 20:45:38 <lummie> took me hours to type a html color as theres no # key
Apr 30 20:45:52 <Dougie187> yeah
Apr 30 20:45:53 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:45:53 <lummie> nah this is so different
Apr 30 20:46:07 <Dougie187> just in regards to the apple key
Apr 30 20:46:09 <lummie> selecting text is a night mare...
Apr 30 20:46:31 <Dougie187> there is no delete key either, so if you do bootcamp its a pain in the ass to do ctrl+alt+del
Apr 30 20:46:33 <lummie> fn ctrl alt apple left cursor or somethign like
Apr 30 20:46:39 <lummie> oh yeah
Apr 30 20:46:42 <Dougie187> since the "delete" key acts as backspace
Apr 30 20:47:13 <lummie> I would say "don't get me started" but you already have....
Apr 30 20:47:14 <Dougie187> and i hate the single click
Apr 30 20:47:18 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:48:19 <lummie> not complaining (too much) though as It's better than nothing
Apr 30 20:48:33 <Dougie187> true.
Apr 30 20:48:39 <lummie> I miss ubuntu though...
Apr 30 20:48:44 <Dougie187> me too
Apr 30 20:48:49 <Dougie187> thats what i was saying earlier.
Apr 30 20:48:53 <Dougie187> but at least yours is unix based.
Apr 30 20:49:11 <lummie> ish......
Apr 30 20:49:19 <Dougie187> heh
Apr 30 20:49:23 <Dougie187> im stuck with windows.
Apr 30 20:49:34 <Dougie187> what would you rather have?
Apr 30 20:49:47 <lummie> my laptop back...
Apr 30 20:49:56 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:50:08 <Dougie187> im going to try to convert my family into ubuntu users.
Apr 30 20:50:13 <Dougie187> i think im getting my mom to do it first.
Apr 30 20:50:23 <Dougie187> my wife has already started to use it, but wont let me put it on her laptop
Apr 30 20:50:27 <lummie> it came back from acer repair last friday with a nice 3 inch scratch across the middle of the screen that wasn't there when I sent it!
Apr 30 20:50:38 <Dougie187> yikes.
Apr 30 20:50:47 <Dougie187> im hoping to get a new laptop out of it.
Apr 30 20:50:47 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:50:50 <Dougie187> mine is 2.5 years old.
Apr 30 20:50:55 <michaelnovakjr__> i am running 8.04.... i like it
Apr 30 20:50:57 <Dougie187> and they dont make these anymore
Apr 30 20:51:03 <michaelnovakjr__> just a few crashes every now and again
Apr 30 20:51:11 <lummie> yeah mine is a couple of years, but it's got a bit of life in it yet.
Apr 30 20:51:15 <Dougie187> i was using 8.04 before i sent it in
Apr 30 20:51:19 <Dougie187> mine does too
Apr 30 20:51:21 <lummie> if only I had $25,000
Apr 30 20:51:23 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:51:29 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Apr 30 20:51:38 <michaelnovakjr__> well, after taxes even if you win you won't have that!
Apr 30 20:51:42 <Dougie187> then you could get yourself a new one.
Apr 30 20:51:51 <jerkface03> a new what?
Apr 30 20:51:52 <lummie> no taxes to pay here.... :)
Apr 30 20:51:54 <Dougie187> whats the tax rate on a prize?
Apr 30 20:51:55 <michaelnovakjr__> how come?
Apr 30 20:51:56 <jerkface03> a new crack and prostitute habit?
Apr 30 20:52:08 <jerkface03> isn't it 50% in the states?
Apr 30 20:52:19 <michaelnovakjr__> f*** government
Apr 30 20:52:20 <lummie> uk there's not tax as long it isn't part of your job
Apr 30 20:52:20 <Dougie187> and... jerkface lives up to his name.
Apr 30 20:52:21 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:52:23 <Dougie187> jk
Apr 30 20:52:27 <jerkface03> i think winnings don't get taxed here (cdn)
Apr 30 20:52:41 <michaelnovakjr__> i think i just became british
Apr 30 20:52:50 * lummie is spending it already....
Apr 30 20:52:59 <michaelnovakjr__> that is not good :(
Apr 30 20:53:00 <lummie> Cup of tea dear...
Apr 30 20:53:03 <Dougie187> k i think its time to cook dinner
Apr 30 20:53:11 <Dougie187> yeah you can sure run yourself into a lot of debt.
Apr 30 20:53:15 <Dougie187> spending 25k before you have it
Apr 30 20:53:16 <Dougie187> lol
Apr 30 20:53:21 <michaelnovakjr__> :0
Apr 30 20:53:22 <lummie> michaelnovakjr: tell you get the cheque made out to me....
Apr 30 20:53:25 <Dougie187> hope you dont do that for phase two
Apr 30 20:53:38 <michaelnovakjr__> yea 275,000 is a lot to pay off
Apr 30 20:53:41 <lummie> lol
Apr 30 20:53:50 <Dougie187> anyways
Apr 30 20:53:51 <Dougie187> time to cook
Apr 30 20:53:53 <Dougie187> talk to you guys later
Apr 30 20:53:57 <michaelnovakjr__> later
Apr 30 21:16:21 <jasta> i already have a plan for the money if i win.
Apr 30 21:16:27 <jasta> i'm putting it toward a house
Apr 30 21:23:00 <jasta> davidw: yeah, what the hell is the deal with needing my address for this?
Apr 30 21:27:12 <jasta> maybe to send us the book in print?
Apr 30 21:36:35 <jerkface03> davidw is writing a book, is he?
Apr 30 21:36:40 <jerkface03> way to keep a secret jasta ;)
Apr 30 21:36:42 <donomo> speaking of books http://pragprog.com/titles/eband/hello-android
Apr 30 21:40:25 <romainguy_> you guys should hope we dno't change the APIs too much after the books are written  :))
Apr 30 21:43:08 <jasta> jerkface03: no
Apr 30 21:43:23 <jasta> romainguy_: yeah, i actually think writing books on Android at this stage is really unwise.
Apr 30 21:44:03 <jasta> jerkface03: the planetandroid dude is writing a book and wanted to send all of us an advance copy to review.
Apr 30 21:44:57 <jasta> i've read the first chapter and it seems geared for a novice audience, unfamiliar with Java and possibly programming in general.
Apr 30 21:45:02 <jasta> which is the wrong audience to target ;)
Apr 30 21:45:39 <jerkface03> so it's not just a copy&paste job of the examples on code.google.com/android?
Apr 30 21:46:30 <jasta> no, are those examples written that way as well?
Apr 30 21:47:34 <jasta> the android samples to me seem like they are targeting folks already familiar with java.  they don't explain much about the non-android bits.
Apr 30 21:48:00 <jasta> this guy's book, on the other hand, goes into things like why you need <?xml ...?> at the beginning your layout files and such.
Apr 30 22:13:04 <davidw> not my book:-)
Apr 30 22:13:24 <davidw> it's someone's broken billing system that requires a mailing address to hand out free pdf's
Apr 30 22:34:17 <jasta> lame :)
Apr 30 22:37:37 <Dougie187> lol
May 01 02:03:13 <romainguy____> re
May 01 02:04:06 <Kraln> re
May 01 02:20:16 <poffy> wrrrrrry
May 01 02:42:22 <michaelnovakjr> hey jasta
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 01 02:59:56 2008