**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 01 02:59:56 2008
May 01 03:04:40 <michaelnovakjr> quiet tonight
May 01 03:06:55 <romainguy> re
May 01 03:08:30 <michaelnovakjr> how's that new sdk version coming along?
May 01 03:09:45 <romainguy> I need sleep :)
May 01 03:10:03 <michaelnovakjr> i know that feeling
May 01 03:10:20 <romainguy> it's been months
May 01 03:10:24 <romainguy> I'm tired :)
May 01 03:11:39 <michaelnovakjr> i bet
May 01 03:11:49 <michaelnovakjr> its gotta be one really cool project to work on
May 01 03:12:44 <romainguy> it is :))
May 01 03:13:33 <michaelnovakjr> i'd like to work at google eventually, i would have applied at the end of the year, except i just got the lead developer job where i am now...... so tough choice
May 01 03:14:36 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: applying is different from getting the job ;-)
May 01 03:14:56 <michaelnovakjr> true
May 01 03:14:58 <Kraln> iphone sdk is objective c
May 01 03:15:04 * Kraln pukes in his mouth more than a little
May 01 03:15:09 <michaelnovakjr> i am still young
May 01 03:15:15 <romainguy> What do you have against Objective-C?
May 01 03:15:18 <poffy> I don't like Objective C
May 01 03:15:19 <michaelnovakjr> don't know obj-c
May 01 03:15:22 <poffy> but I'm considering learning it
May 01 03:15:22 <michaelnovakjr> its sweet
May 01 03:15:30 <romainguy> Objective-C is good
May 01 03:15:31 <michaelnovakjr> i am a fan of it
May 01 03:15:34 <romainguy> At least I find it really good
May 01 03:15:39 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: is that your first job?
May 01 03:15:44 <michaelnovakjr> nope
May 01 03:15:46 <michaelnovakjr> second
May 01 03:15:48 <poffy> I attempted to learn Obj-C as my first programming language awhile ago
May 01 03:15:49 <poffy> heh
May 01 03:15:55 <poffy> Didn't work out very well
May 01 03:16:51 <Kraln> romainguy: I don't have anything against it. I just need to wrap my mind around it
May 01 03:16:56 <Kraln> it's not what I expected
May 01 03:16:59 <Kraln> also, pm poffy
May 01 03:17:08 <michaelnovakjr> romainguy, second job.... i am only 22 so still lots of time to work a head of me
May 01 03:17:18 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: yeah, me too :)
May 01 03:17:19 <michaelnovakjr> getting the lead was pretty sweet
May 01 03:17:22 <romainguy> (I'm 25)
May 01 03:17:41 <romainguy> Kraln: Once you get past the original [] syntax, Objective-C is not that much different from C and Java
May 01 03:17:56 <michaelnovakjr> they talk in 'messages' but its really method calss
May 01 03:17:57 <michaelnovakjr> calls
May 01 03:18:25 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: well not really, because you can do other things with the notion of responders
May 01 03:18:25 <michaelnovakjr> objective-c is great...... you can drop down and use straight up C anytime!
May 01 03:18:30 <michaelnovakjr> true
May 01 03:19:30 <Kraln> romainguy: from what I've been reading it's like lisp and c had a baby.
May 01 03:19:35 <michaelnovakjr> do the judges do a clean install everytime they test an app?
May 01 03:20:33 <romainguy> and Objective-C 2.0 has a GC, which is awesome
May 01 03:20:39 <romainguy> except the iPhone doesn't support the GC :(
May 01 03:20:43 <michaelnovakjr> totally
May 01 03:20:47 <michaelnovakjr> and its opt-in!!
May 01 03:20:56 <michaelnovakjr> so you can choose to use it or not
May 01 03:20:56 <romainguy> it should be opt-out :p
May 01 03:21:10 <michaelnovakjr> if they enabled it by default :)
May 01 03:21:46 <michaelnovakjr> i wish java GC was optional
May 01 03:21:57 <romainguy> no way :p
May 01 03:22:20 <Kraln> java would break if the gc was optional
May 01 03:22:22 <michaelnovakjr> i did finance programming.... there was a delay in execution because of it
May 01 03:22:28 <Kraln> there is no language constructs to free memory
May 01 03:22:35 <michaelnovakjr> tweak to the jdk fixed it :)
May 01 03:23:10 <michaelnovakjr> trading software is no good if there's delays!
May 01 03:23:32 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr: that was probably the application :))
May 01 03:24:23 <michaelnovakjr> i just don't see a problem with memory management
May 01 03:24:29 <michaelnovakjr> i don't mind it
May 01 03:24:35 <romainguy> it's just annoying
May 01 03:24:36 <romainguy> and boring
May 01 03:24:40 <romainguy> and the machine can do it for you
May 01 03:24:41 <romainguy> so...
May 01 03:24:47 <michaelnovakjr> no doubt its boring......
May 01 03:25:40 <Kraln> in the embedded space, generally a gc is too much overhead
May 01 03:25:45 <Kraln> someone worked some voodoo with android
May 01 03:25:49 <Kraln> =)
May 01 03:26:13 <michaelnovakjr> i would actually want it on embedded devices
May 01 03:26:17 <michaelnovakjr> cleans up memor
May 01 03:26:25 <romainguy> well you have it :p
May 01 03:26:29 <michaelnovakjr> :)
May 01 03:28:17 <michaelnovakjr> hey jasta
May 01 07:48:13 <ligi> hi all
May 01 07:57:27 <muthu> hi
May 01 07:57:50 <muthu> ligi: how do you greet in german?
May 01 07:58:25 <muthu> vanakkam in tamil
May 01 07:58:25 <ligi> muthu: Hallo is the german term
May 01 07:58:28 <muthu> namaskar in hindi
May 01 07:58:32 <muthu> Hallo
May 01 07:58:42 <ligi> namaskar
May 01 07:58:45 <ligi> ;-)
May 01 07:58:50 <muthu> :)
May 01 07:59:11 <muthu> you confident, about winning?
May 01 07:59:19 <ligi> no
May 01 07:59:33 <ligi> just wanted to shock the judges
May 01 07:59:36 <ligi> ^^
May 01 07:59:44 <muthu> haha
May 01 07:59:46 <ligi> increase the WTF factor
May 01 08:00:02 <muthu> its cool in a way
May 01 08:00:23 <ligi> just had 20 houres for the android port
May 01 08:00:55 <ligi> but perhaps the concept gives me some bonus ;-)
May 01 12:59:19 <Dougie187> morning everyone
May 01 13:03:12 <vol_> good morning
May 01 13:31:32 <michaelnovakjr__> morning
May 01 13:33:16 <ligi_> hi all
May 01 13:36:07 <Dougie187> morning
May 01 13:36:18 <Dougie187> man. centos 5 uses firefox 1.5
May 01 13:36:25 <Dougie187> and 1.5 isnt supported anymore
May 01 13:36:29 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
May 01 13:36:35 <Dougie187> its irritating.
May 01 13:36:49 <Dougie187> freaking centos blows.
May 01 13:37:08 <michaelnovakjr__> i am running my mail server on centos, so as far as firefox and all that, doesn't really mean anything to me
May 01 13:37:11 <Dougie187> i asked the sysadmins here if they were planning on upgrading firefox to the latest stable, but they said no.
May 01 13:37:13 <Dougie187> yeah
May 01 13:37:18 <Dougie187> but we have it on all the desktops here
May 01 13:37:19 <michaelnovakjr__> i prefer ubuntu for workstations
May 01 13:37:23 <Dougie187> as do i
May 01 13:37:33 <Dougie187> do ubuntu and centos talk well together?
May 01 13:37:42 <michaelnovakjr__> what do you mean?
May 01 13:37:44 <Dougie187> or i should say work*
May 01 13:37:59 <Dougie187> i guess, are there any issues that you have from having a mixed setup.
May 01 13:38:06 <Dougie187> centos servers -> ubuntu workstations
May 01 13:38:34 <michaelnovakjr__> nope
May 01 13:38:43 <Dougie187> thats cool
May 01 13:39:00 <Dougie187> i suggested to them to use ubuntu, but they are all "We have centos on the servers and dont want a mixed setup"
May 01 13:39:07 <michaelnovakjr__> not that i know of, it shouldn't make a difference what your servers are..... i mostly use solaris 10 actually... only that zimbra likes linux more
May 01 13:39:37 <michaelnovakjr__> the mailserver is the only linux server i run
May 01 13:41:22 <Dougie187> im just irritated that we are using an unsupported version of firefox.
May 01 13:41:24 <ligi_> aloha muthu
May 01 13:41:34 <muthu> ligi_:  Hallo
May 01 13:41:39 <michaelnovakjr__> upgrade your firefox
May 01 13:41:53 <muthu> any info on top 50?
May 01 13:42:15 <michaelnovakjr__> anyone get hit?
May 01 13:43:57 <muthu> a few people are distressed in the forums
May 01 13:44:12 <michaelnovakjr__> what are they saying?
May 01 13:44:19 <muthu> claiming their apps are not tested right
May 01 13:44:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i doubt that
May 01 13:44:40 <muthu> hmm
May 01 13:44:51 <michaelnovakjr__> how would your users use it
May 01 13:44:59 <muthu> right
May 01 13:45:07 <michaelnovakjr__> seems like bad UIs talking
May 01 13:45:14 <muthu> its tricky
May 01 13:46:06 <muthu> and there'll always be controversies
May 01 13:46:22 <muthu> obviously everyone expects to win
May 01 13:46:27 <michaelnovakjr__> of course.... but that is why UI design is hard
May 01 13:46:47 <muthu> yeah.. that's why i went with a design partner
May 01 13:46:52 <muthu> hope she got it right!
May 01 13:46:54 <Dougie187> heh
May 01 13:47:15 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr you had someone else on your project too right?
May 01 13:48:38 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187: i had a friend come in and help out the last weekend.... basically that is what got the app ready in time :)
May 01 13:49:03 <michaelnovakjr__> there was still a lot to get through so two programmers made sense
May 01 13:49:16 <muthu> michaelnovakjr__: team work makes sense
May 01 13:49:25 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
May 01 13:49:40 <ligi_> right
May 01 13:49:44 <muthu> you can feed of each other and get some critical feedback
May 01 13:49:56 <michaelnovakjr__> absolutely
May 01 13:50:07 <Dougie187> and 4 eyes are better than 2
May 01 13:50:15 <Dougie187> that way you get two outlooks on the project.
May 01 13:50:16 <ligi_> but finding good team members iss hard work
May 01 13:50:17 <muthu> that's why most business and teams are going to win.. than individuals
May 01 13:50:31 <Dougie187> ligi_: true
May 01 13:50:53 <michaelnovakjr__> muthu: you'll be surprised
May 01 13:51:00 <muthu> really?
May 01 13:51:06 <michaelnovakjr__> i think so
May 01 13:51:12 <muthu> why?
May 01 13:51:22 <ligi_> muthu: i dont think that way - i think ( hope ) the idea counts more than thre realisation
May 01 13:51:35 <ligi_> the rest is easy to do
May 01 13:51:36 <Dougie187> i would expect it to work like that.
May 01 13:51:41 <Dougie187> I think thats why they have phases.
May 01 13:51:47 <Dougie187> they want to see good ideas to start with
May 01 13:51:55 <muthu> it depends on 4 judges
May 01 13:52:00 <muthu> and what they think
May 01 13:52:00 <Dougie187> and then throughout the next phases they want to see good implementation of the ideas
May 01 13:52:11 <Dougie187> but the judges should all be looking for similar things.
May 01 13:52:11 <michaelnovakjr__> they said what they wanted to see..... we definitely know its a little bit more than just the idea
May 01 13:52:27 <Dougie187> true.
May 01 13:52:38 <Dougie187> but i would think the idea would be the most important thing at this stage.
May 01 13:52:42 <Dougie187> and a decent implementation of it
May 01 13:52:46 <ligi_> michaelnovakjr__: idea + some apk to show that you know what u are doing
May 01 13:52:48 <michaelnovakjr__> if your program is a good idea but sloppy then you won't get as high of a score
May 01 13:52:54 <Dougie187> yeah
May 01 13:52:57 <Dougie187> you have to present your idea well
May 01 13:53:04 <michaelnovakjr__> read the judging guidelines on the site
May 01 13:53:07 <ligi_> but polishing / bughunting will not count imho
May 01 13:53:10 <michaelnovakjr__> its pretty exact
May 01 13:53:21 <Dougie187> ill be back in a bit. i have a meeting now.
May 01 13:55:58 <tomgibara> I think the judging criteria are balanced between concept and realization
May 01 13:56:39 <michaelnovakjr__> brb getting the link
May 01 13:56:42 <tomgibara> Originality and Indespensibility on the one hand (concept) and Use & Polish on the other (execution)
May 01 13:59:08 <muthu> it must be the right mix
May 01 13:59:15 <michaelnovakjr_2> http://code.google.com/android/adc_judging.html
May 01 13:59:25 <muthu> tomgibara: you did the mosey code, right?
May 01 13:59:30 <tomgibara> I have a growing concern that the concept will carry more weight because its less effort to judge
May 01 13:59:33 <michaelnovakjr_2> that pretty much says it all
May 01 13:59:35 <tomgibara> yeah, that's me
May 01 13:59:40 <muthu> cool
May 01 13:59:57 <muthu> tomgibara: you think your app was not tested right?
May 01 14:00:36 <tomgibara> No, I can't say that, but I put a public post about it on the forums in case anyone else has had a similar experience
May 01 14:00:54 <michaelnovakjr_2> how could it not be tested right?
May 01 14:01:12 <tomgibara> I had 6hrs of server down time, but from the logs I'm pretty sure that only 2 judges logged into the test account
May 01 14:01:30 <tomgibara> So I could have been unlucky and 'lost' 2 judges
May 01 14:01:50 <tomgibara> but of the two that judged the app, only one judge published just one barcode
May 01 14:01:54 <michaelnovakjr_2> but that is out of the hands of google
May 01 14:02:40 <muthu> tomgibara: did you have a readme, explaining how to publish bar codes?
May 01 14:03:26 <tomgibara> I supplied a 5 page PDF that I made as brief as possible, but which nevertheless gave a screenshot of every activity and a small write-up
May 01 14:03:37 <tomgibara> The application also has complete help
May 01 14:03:45 <vol_> Hmm.
May 01 14:04:03 <vol_> RemoteCallbackList seems to have something in beginBroadcast where it will fail if more than 23 elements are registered
May 01 14:04:08 <vol_> looking at the bytecode, at least.
May 01 14:04:14 <tomgibara> As an aid, the help is also online: http://www.tomgibara.com/android/moseycode/releases/help
May 01 14:04:15 <vol_> nothing in the documentation about it, though.
May 01 14:04:52 <vol_> I see nothing in the groups, either.
May 01 14:05:17 <muthu> tomgibara: why do you think the other judge did not publish a barcode?
May 01 14:05:36 <tomgibara> Because every published barcode enters the moseycode repository.
May 01 14:05:44 <muthu> i understand
May 01 14:05:59 <muthu> but what might be the reason, the second judge did not do it
May 01 14:06:39 <tomgibara> I explicitly stated in the documentation that any information submitted as part of the judging process can be removed at the request of any judge by contacting me
May 01 14:07:03 <michaelnovakjr_2> but judges aren't going to contact you :)
May 01 14:07:11 <michaelnovakjr_2> each application is just a number
May 01 14:07:31 <tomgibara> Possibly I didn't do enough to promote my application for demonstration - I'm not moaning about it, but it's worth sharing experiences in case other people have had similar experiences
May 01 14:08:00 <tomgibara> They can contact me if they wish since there is also reference to a complete privacy policy that includes all relevant details
May 01 14:08:23 <michaelnovakjr_2> yes, but i doubt google will let judges talk to those who submitted
May 01 14:08:36 <tomgibara> Anyway, I wouldn't expect them to hesitate using an application's demo account, I just did it for thoroughness
May 01 14:08:40 <michaelnovakjr_2> the point is to be objective
May 01 14:08:59 <michaelnovakjr_2> that they should do, jasta set up a demo account and judges used it
May 01 14:10:16 <tomgibara> 2 judges did use the demo account - and maybe my application is buggy.
May 01 14:11:00 <tomgibara> It simply made me concious of the disparity that could exist between my expectation of the judges and their intentions.
May 01 14:11:12 <muthu> tomgibara: you have pretty detailed help
May 01 14:11:25 <muthu> guess judges would have got the complete picture
May 01 14:11:54 <tomgibara> Yes, this was the 5th release of the application and it's always been developed for end-users, not judges, so the help's pretty complete.
May 01 14:12:10 <muthu> tomgibara: i wouldn't worry too much
May 01 14:12:35 <muthu> because you got the point across through help etc.,
May 01 14:12:45 <tomgibara> I always felt that it would be hard for Moseycode to compete since almost all the application is based around dynamically interacting with the camera
May 01 14:13:04 <tomgibara> Since the judges can't do that I wasn't very confident to start with
May 01 14:13:30 <muthu> tomgibara: right, so they must use their imagination
May 01 14:14:04 <tomgibara> But if they just watched the video and said "yes that's a good app" then I am annoyed for all the developers who worked really hard and are having the applications compared to video demonstrations.
May 01 14:14:22 <tomgibara> *the = their
May 01 14:14:43 <muthu> you cannot worry about other applications though
May 01 14:15:29 <tomgibara> Whether I win or lose, I want to know I did so fairly - perhaps it's because I'm an englishman :)
May 01 14:15:40 <muthu> haha
May 01 14:15:53 <muthu> me too, even though i'm an indian :)
May 01 14:16:33 <muthu> i'll be worried about how my app was judged in all fairness, irrespective of what the judges did with other applications
May 01 14:17:07 <michaelnovakjr_2> its going to be a fair process
May 01 14:17:29 <tomgibara> I think all but the toughest will harbour some nervousness about the judging.
May 01 14:17:41 <michaelnovakjr_2> i am running server side in my app and if it went down i wouldn't cry about it..... you could have wrote an app that didn't need servers :)
May 01 14:18:00 <michaelnovakjr_2> its a risk
May 01 14:19:33 <tomgibara> I wrote that app I wanted to write irrespective of the ADC - and it needs a server :)
May 01 14:20:05 <michaelnovakjr_2> so does mine..... but that doesn't mean google has to worry about if its connecting or not..... that is the problem of the developer
May 01 14:20:29 <michaelnovakjr_2> they got 1788 apps
May 01 14:20:41 <michaelnovakjr_2> its quite a bit to do in 15 something days
May 01 14:20:50 <tomgibara> I agree completely
May 01 14:25:29 <davidw> I want to build a company... depending on contests is a bad revenue model
May 01 14:25:40 <muthu> haha
May 01 14:26:34 <tomgibara> The cash and caché that come from the competition are valuable whether you have a revenue model or not.
May 01 14:27:24 <muthu> tomgibara: winning the challenge would be great, but i'm not sure how many of those 50 winners will go on and start a company
May 01 14:28:29 <davidw> tomgibara, *if* you win
May 01 14:30:15 <tomgibara> davidw: yes, but I'm sure everyone will have at least one moment imagining it was so.
May 01 14:30:31 <muthu> oh yeah, big time
May 01 14:30:38 <muthu> that's the fun part
May 01 14:30:51 <muthu> atleast dream that you'll win until the last moment
May 01 14:30:56 <tomgibara> The ADC definitely skewed my priorities slightly during development, in some good ways and some not so good.
May 01 14:32:14 <tomgibara> davidw: do you have a revenue model in mind?
May 01 14:35:40 <michaelnovakjr_2> i have a piggy bank
May 01 14:35:52 <michaelnovakjr_2> i have about 16 cents toward the next application server
May 01 14:36:09 <davidw> tomgibara, working on it:-)
May 01 14:36:15 <davidw> I have too many ideas actually
May 01 14:36:39 <tomgibara> haha that's the curse: too many ideas or none
May 01 14:37:02 <tomgibara> 16 cents pays for a lot of open source software
May 01 14:37:40 <michaelnovakjr_2> sure, tomgibara the software isn't the problem.... its getting the hardware :)
May 01 14:38:12 <michaelnovakjr_2> i have a complete open source stack
May 01 14:38:25 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_2: what's the stack you are using?
May 01 14:38:44 <michaelnovakjr_2> solaris, mysql, glassfish
May 01 14:39:01 <michaelnovakjr_2> glassfish === sun java application server
May 01 14:39:25 <muthu> cool
May 01 14:40:50 <michaelnovakjr_2> solaris 10 is actually not bad compared to solaris 9 :)
May 01 14:41:19 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_2: sun has this program where you can get hardware cheap
May 01 14:41:30 <michaelnovakjr_2> yea?
May 01 14:41:43 <muthu> yeah
May 01 14:41:49 <muthu> for small startups
May 01 14:41:54 <muthu> check out their website
May 01 14:41:55 <michaelnovakjr_2> interesting
May 01 14:45:07 <davidw> who buys hardware anymore?
May 01 14:45:47 <muthu> davidw: you get them for free?
May 01 14:45:58 <davidw> nah, hosting
May 01 14:46:09 <muthu> yeah, that how we pay right?
May 01 14:46:18 <davidw> yeah, but by the month
May 01 14:46:24 <muthu> correct
May 01 14:46:39 <davidw> and you're not buying anything, you're just renting time
May 01 14:46:52 <michaelnovakjr_2> davidw, i buy hardware
May 01 14:46:54 <muthu> $9.95 with Kraln.. who can beat that?
May 01 14:47:13 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, for what?
May 01 14:47:18 <michaelnovakjr_2> muthu: i applied for it
May 01 14:47:29 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_2: great.. that would be useful for you
May 01 14:47:31 <michaelnovakjr_2> davidw: i prefer to manage my own hardware.
May 01 14:47:44 <davidw> what if you're on vacation or something?
May 01 14:47:52 <michaelnovakjr_2> i've got coverage :)
May 01 14:47:54 <davidw> I run my own boxes....
May 01 14:48:06 <davidw> but I like them to be in a real data center
May 01 14:48:54 <muthu> better to rent them out.. on the longer run
May 01 14:49:31 <davidw> maybe something like Amazon's ec2 is ideal, but not *quite* yet
May 01 14:49:36 <davidw> they still have a few things to fix
May 01 14:50:29 <muthu> davidw: i went against amazon, after your suggestion
May 01 14:50:36 <muthu> and it looked a bit complicated
May 01 14:50:56 <davidw> yeah
May 01 14:50:58 <davidw> it's not there yet
May 01 14:51:19 <davidw> their prices are still too high as well
May 01 15:36:35 <vol_> I'm having some trouble manually using aidl when creating my own parcelable classes, can anyone help with this?
May 01 15:41:41 <vol_> in particular, I'm just not exactly sure how I'm supposed to run aidl here
May 01 15:42:03 <vol_> I've created Foo.java and Foo.aidl in the com.bar.parcelable package
May 01 15:42:14 <vol_> there doesn't seem to be anything in the groups either
May 01 15:55:36 <michaelnovakjr_2> you aren't supposed to create the java file
May 01 15:55:53 <michaelnovakjr_2> you write the aidl and then the java class is generated from that vol_
May 01 16:11:37 <michaelnovakjr_2> anyone's server been hit since yesterday?
May 01 16:26:06 <michaelnovakjr_2> hey jasta
May 01 16:32:32 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_2: biosopher seems to have got a hit
May 01 16:42:24 <Dougie187> man that guy likes to leave and join a lot
May 01 16:44:07 <jasta> yawn
May 01 16:44:33 <Dougie187> you tired jasta?
May 01 16:53:41 <jasta> always
May 01 16:53:53 <Dougie187> drink caffeine?
May 01 16:54:06 <michaelnovakjr_2> jasta, have you been hit since yesterday?
May 01 16:57:09 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_2: No
May 01 16:57:23 <michaelnovakjr_2> me either
May 01 16:58:52 <michaelnovakjr_2> i wonder if they are doing something different so the top 100 can't see if they are being hit
May 01 16:59:22 <michaelnovakjr_2> you should be in atleast the top 100 jasta
May 01 16:59:28 <jasta> who knows
May 01 17:00:02 <vol_> michaelnovakjr_2: I'm writing a class that implements parcelable. The AIDL docs say that I should create a java file, and an aidl stub, neither of which I should have eclipse compile
May 01 17:00:31 <vol_> am I misreading them? Do I need the aidl stub to create a parcelable file that can be used for ipc?
May 01 17:00:59 <jasta> vol_: Eclipse has bugs when creating your own parcelables.  The documentation, however, misses an obvious and simple work-around.
May 01 17:01:57 <jasta> You just need to implement a java class implementing Parcelable, then edit the system-wide tools/framework.aidl and add:
May 01 17:02:19 <jasta> err tools/lib/framework.aidl
May 01 17:02:38 <jasta> parcelable foo.bar.baz.MyParcelable;
May 01 17:06:56 <vol_> yes, this is a completely obvious workaround.
May 01 17:07:30 <vol_> thank you, though, I will look into this.
May 01 17:08:07 <vol_> also, is it possible via aidl for an interface to extend another interface?
May 01 17:20:44 <jasta> vol_: i don't know.  it wouldn't seem difficult for them to have introduced that support.
May 01 17:21:19 <vol_> That's unfortunate.
May 01 17:21:40 <vol_> I figured that a good solution to my problem would be to create the three seperate interfaces, and then have a fourth interface that extended those three
May 01 17:21:57 <vol_> this way I don't have to do something silly like binding three times, but I could still expose the service in discreet parts
May 01 17:22:37 <jasta> like i said, i don't know that they don't support this.
May 01 17:22:43 <jasta> it would seem easy to have supported it.
May 01 17:51:48 <muthu> i thought jasta was an insider, but now people are looking at me!!
May 01 17:51:57 <muthu> LOL
May 01 17:52:23 <vol_> perhaps he is faking you out
May 01 17:52:38 <muthu> conspiracy going on
May 01 17:52:57 <muthu> but seriously, how hard is it to figure a few things out?
May 01 17:53:04 <michaelnovakjr_2> muthu: been hit?
May 01 17:53:19 <muthu> i don't have a server..
May 01 17:53:25 <muthu> played it safe ;)
May 01 17:53:50 <muthu> pocketjourney got hit
May 01 17:53:53 <Dougie188> you should have had it email you when it worked.
May 01 17:53:54 <Dougie188> lol
May 01 17:54:02 <Dougie188> or emailed you when it failed.
May 01 17:54:15 <jasta> bbl, gotta futz with my machine
May 01 17:54:49 <muthu> Dougie188: yeah, but you know.. why?
May 01 17:54:57 <muthu> it kills the suspense
May 01 17:55:00 <michaelnovakjr_2> so i am going to say i probably am not in the top 50
May 01 17:55:04 <michaelnovakjr_2> top 100 i mean
May 01 17:55:14 <dmoffett> Sorry if I am way off base here but just joined the irc.  The consensus is if you have not been hit recently then you are not in the top 100 or 50?
May 01 17:55:25 <muthu> nope
May 01 17:55:27 <muthu> not really
May 01 17:55:34 <muthu> that's what people here seem to think
May 01 17:55:37 <muthu> but no one knows
May 01 17:55:47 <Dougie188> paranoid people are speculating on that.
May 01 17:55:48 <dmoffett> Thanks
May 01 17:55:50 <michaelnovakjr_2> dan mentioned they are only judging the top 100
May 01 17:55:52 <Dougie188> depends who you are talking to.
May 01 17:55:52 <dmoffett> lol
May 01 17:56:18 <Dougie188> but you might not have to get hit again to get judged as part of the top 100
May 01 17:56:21 <muthu> fact is top 100 is being judged
May 01 17:56:26 <michaelnovakjr_2> true
May 01 17:56:28 <michaelnovakjr_2> i just realized that
May 01 17:56:31 <muthu> right
May 01 17:56:31 <Dougie188> also.
May 01 17:56:32 <dmoffett> How do you know that?
May 01 17:56:37 <Dougie188> maybe they are hitting them just for fun.
May 01 17:56:42 <Dougie188> Morrildl told us yesterday
May 01 17:56:43 <muthu> haha
May 01 17:57:01 <Dougie188> maybe they are running back through some of the apps they still have access to and playing with them, instead of judging them.
May 01 17:57:20 <dmoffett> Anyone get hit from google.
May 01 17:57:21 <Dougie188> truth is, noone has any idea whats going on.
May 01 17:57:37 <Dougie188> just wait til monday and find out
May 01 17:57:40 <dmoffett> our app was hit but not from google just I guess partners.
May 01 17:57:49 <muthu> dmoffett: who?
May 01 17:58:03 <muthu> and when?
May 01 17:58:37 <dmoffett> mostly late last week.
May 01 17:58:43 <dmoffett> from some of the partners.
May 01 17:58:45 <muthu> what's your app?
May 01 17:59:05 <dmoffett> Player for http://www.vizzvox.com
May 01 17:59:33 <Dougie188> late last week is (as far as we know) before they reduced it to top 100
May 01 17:59:34 <dmoffett> I put it together in a month so I really don't expect to win but it is till exciting and fun.
May 01 18:00:07 <muthu> you stream content from vizzvox?
May 01 18:00:08 <dmoffett> Cool then you don't have to worry about us.  :-)
May 01 18:00:08 <Dougie188> but that doesnt mean your not in the top 100
May 01 18:00:28 <Dougie188> unless you wanna be paranoid and think of it that way. like michaelnovakjr
May 01 18:00:29 <Dougie188> lol
May 01 18:00:39 <dmoffett> I don't think they were impressed since they spent very little time in the app.
May 01 18:01:07 <muthu> hmm
May 01 18:01:09 <dmoffett> I am to old to be paranoid.  Worry about my kid more than anything.
May 01 18:01:30 <muthu> right, there's so many things to look forward to
May 01 18:01:45 <muthu> actually i'll be in a dilemma if cooking wins!!
May 01 18:02:09 <dmoffett> Exactly 25 or even 250 is not much if you have a good idea that can make $1.00 from milliions of users.
May 01 18:02:15 <dmoffett> It would be very cool to win though.
May 01 18:02:23 <dmoffett> I would call my Mom right away.  :-)
May 01 18:02:28 <Dougie188> heh
May 01 18:02:35 <muthu> winning would be cool
May 01 18:02:39 <muthu> to brag about
May 01 18:03:01 <Dougie188> i wonder if the winners will try to beef up their teams for phase 2
May 01 18:03:15 <muthu> they might
May 01 18:03:16 <dmoffett> I would even call my high school sweet heart.  Of for some of you that might not be that long ago.
May 01 18:03:36 <muthu> dmoffett: hope your wife dont mind ;)
May 01 18:03:41 <Dougie188> i would as well. but that is my wife.
May 01 18:03:42 <Dougie188> lol
May 01 18:03:49 <muthu> Dougie188: cool
May 01 18:04:03 <dmoffett> She might welcome the break.
May 01 18:04:09 <Dougie188> hah
May 01 18:04:18 <Dougie188> good luck with that one.
May 01 18:04:29 <dmoffett> 20 years of bliss though.
May 01 18:05:04 <muthu> dmoffett: if you don't win?
May 01 18:05:06 <dmoffett> 20 years of marriage is even harder than winning adc.
May 01 18:05:14 <dmoffett> Just keep tryiing.
May 01 18:05:45 <muthu> how many kids?
May 01 18:05:56 <dmoffett> just one for me.
May 01 18:06:10 <muthu> ok.. got 2 daughters here
May 01 18:06:26 <dmoffett> Cool
May 01 18:06:36 <dmoffett> I wish I had 10 now.
May 01 18:06:41 <muthu> yeah, i know
May 01 18:06:50 <dmoffett> Thought they were a pain in the ass untiil I had one.
May 01 18:06:52 <dmoffett> http://www.vizzvox.com/stories/7HxErEAAdQR9600fms
May 01 18:06:57 <dmoffett> that is my boy.
May 01 18:07:37 <f00f-> muthu is an INSIDER, BEWARE :)
May 01 18:07:45 <dmoffett> a little shameless promotion.
May 01 18:07:50 <muthu> f00f-: oh oh
May 01 18:07:59 <dmoffett> works for google?
May 01 18:08:03 <michaelnovakjr_2> so muthu should start talking....
May 01 18:08:20 <michaelnovakjr_2> i blame the irc for paranoid behavior
May 01 18:08:31 <dmoffett> It's all just good fun.
May 01 18:08:43 <michaelnovakjr_2> haha
May 01 18:08:45 <dmoffett> Reading the mailing list was great fun.
May 01 18:09:07 <Dougie188> jasta have you calmed down yet?
May 01 18:09:08 <michaelnovakjr_2> they should surprise everyone and announce the winners tomorrow!
May 01 18:09:12 <Dougie188> or are you still paranoid?
May 01 18:09:15 <muthu> i donno what google thinks about me
May 01 18:09:34 <jasta> Dougie188: i'm uncertain, which is in between :)
May 01 18:09:38 <michaelnovakjr_2> well, you are kinda in their domain
May 01 18:10:44 <muthu> dmoffett: saw your boy, cool
May 01 18:10:52 <dmoffett> thank you.
May 01 18:13:07 <davidw> jasta is going to be unsufferable if he wins;-)
May 01 18:13:19 <Kraln> he is already unsufferable
May 01 18:16:30 <muthu> will the scores be send to the participants?
May 01 18:16:52 <Dougie188> hasnt that been speculated enough?
May 01 18:17:22 <Dougie188> that question has an average refresh rate of 3 hours.
May 01 18:17:32 <muthu> haha
May 01 18:17:43 <michaelnovakjr_2> hey guys just got back
May 01 18:17:44 <michaelnovakjr_2> will the scores be send to the participants?
May 01 18:17:45 <jerkface03> will the scores be send to the participants?
May 01 18:17:47 <jerkface03> lol
May 01 18:17:58 <muthu> brb
May 01 18:18:16 <muthu> will the scores be send to the participants?
May 01 18:19:00 <michaelnovakjr_2> there will be a fill in the blank form on google.com, this form will email your score after you fill it out. (put your score in the box)!
May 01 18:19:11 <muthu> show me the box!!
May 01 18:19:21 <f00f-> show me the money!
May 01 18:19:25 <muthu> haha
May 01 18:19:57 <muthu> morrildl: hi
May 01 18:20:03 <Dougie188> lol
May 01 18:20:21 <muthu> there's only 4 days of fun left
May 01 18:20:37 <Dougie188> so some 1600 people thats true.
May 01 18:20:39 <Dougie188> maybe 1700
May 01 18:20:42 <Dougie188> but not for 50
May 01 18:20:49 <muthu> right
May 01 18:20:53 <muthu> i'll be missing
May 01 18:21:07 <muthu> after may 5
May 01 18:21:09 <michaelnovakjr_2> morrildl: is currently unavailable please leave a message and your response will arrive....... hmmm... well it will arrive some time in the future
May 01 18:21:15 <muthu> haha
May 01 18:21:53 <muthu> there's only 2 things i need to know
May 01 18:23:08 <muthu> to set things right in the forum
May 01 18:23:12 <Dougie188> and those are?
May 01 18:23:38 <muthu> 1. will scores be sent?
May 01 18:24:01 <muthu> 2. is muthu really a google insider?
May 01 18:24:27 <Dougie188> my understanding of previous conversations would lead me to say 1. No, 2. Yes
May 01 18:24:44 <michaelnovakjr_2> my understanding is 1. maybe 2. possibly
May 01 18:24:44 <f00f-> #2 is really a recursive question for you muthu
May 01 18:24:44 <muthu> lol
May 01 18:25:10 <Dougie188> i could see 1. maybe for the losers.
May 01 18:25:13 <Dougie188> but 1. no for the winners.
May 01 18:25:28 <muthu> winners don't care anyways
May 01 18:26:06 <Dougie188> but i would assume they wouldnt go through the trouble of personalizing every message to the losers. since there are way more. and that would lead me to say no
May 01 18:27:49 <jerkface03> who cares about a personal message
May 01 18:27:51 <jerkface03> i just want to know how i placed
May 01 18:28:00 <michaelnovakjr_2> they could write a mailer script that prints your score in a message like.......    Sorry submission #1543 but your score was __ and that is way too low to even be looked at more than once! Actually you probably don't want to know how terribly low this score is compared to others, so with that said, try again next time!
May 01 18:28:51 <Dougie188> lol
May 01 18:29:02 <jerkface03> followed up by "loooooooooooooooooooooooooooser"
May 01 18:29:14 <michaelnovakjr_2> haha
May 01 18:31:31 <michaelnovakjr_2> i found out losers get one free search at google.com to use whenever they'd like
May 01 18:31:37 <michaelnovakjr_2> guys, it doesn't expire!!!
May 01 18:31:41 <f00f-> haha
May 01 18:32:07 <Dougie188> and 50 invites to gmail
May 01 18:32:18 <muthu> the number of oooo in looser can be counted to find out your rank
May 01 18:32:20 <michaelnovakjr_2> aw swwweeeeettttttt!
May 01 18:32:30 <michaelnovakjr_2> i have been waiting to get a gmail account for forever!
May 01 18:32:34 <Dougie188> i know
May 01 18:32:40 <Dougie188> they are so hard to get!
May 01 18:32:41 <michaelnovakjr_2> haha
May 01 18:32:43 <Dougie188> i hope i lose!
May 01 18:32:52 <Dougie188> (though i didnt enter so i already lost)
May 01 18:33:12 <Dougie188> but thats really just me being paranoid
May 01 18:33:16 <michaelnovakjr_2> muthu, they are going to temporarily redesign the results page to say looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooser instead of goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogle
May 01 18:33:32 <michaelnovakjr_2> for your one free search
May 01 18:33:39 <muthu> haha
May 01 18:33:42 <Dougie188> lol except the word changes when you do looooooooooooooooser..
May 01 18:33:53 <Dougie188> unlink google
May 01 18:33:57 <muthu> thats only on may 5
May 01 18:34:44 <Dougie188> unlike*
May 01 18:37:16 <dmoffett> Just like in the special olympics you are winners just for participating.  :-)
May 01 18:37:53 <Dougie188> even the 50 people who made facebook apps?
May 01 18:38:01 <dmoffett> lol
May 01 18:39:58 <muthu> May 5 is monday
May 01 18:41:38 <muthu> anyone PHP expert here?
May 01 18:41:45 <Dougie188> ive used php before.
May 01 18:41:51 <Dougie188> not really an expert.
May 01 18:42:00 <muthu> Dougie188: you know any "rule engine" in PHP?
May 01 18:42:09 <muthu> just like Drools or something
May 01 18:42:11 <Dougie188> im about as anxious as you guys are to find out if you win or not to find out when i get my laptop back.
May 01 18:42:13 <Dougie188> Nope.
May 01 18:42:35 <Dougie188> though i dont know what drools is
May 01 18:42:39 <muthu> anyone know rule engine similar to Drools in PHP?
May 01 18:43:06 <muthu> have used Drools before, but it requires a JVM
May 01 18:43:20 <muthu> Dougie188: drools is a rule engine
May 01 18:43:23 <Dougie188> http://code.google.com/p/phprulez/
May 01 18:43:24 <Dougie188> ?
May 01 18:43:34 <muthu> Dougie188: that seems to be pretty new
May 01 18:44:03 <dmoffett> Anyone porting to the iPhone?
May 01 18:44:30 <michaelnovakjr_2> dmoffett: not untill the f**** at apple allow bg processes through the sdk
May 01 18:45:06 <muthu> dmoffett: no, that's the last thing we'll do
May 01 18:45:07 <dmoffett> Yeah I think the apple sdk is not very good at this point.
May 01 18:45:44 <michaelnovakjr_2> i am a big fan of obj-c, i am excited to get into it, but without that option i am not even going to bother
May 01 18:45:59 <dmoffett> I see
May 01 18:46:11 <dmoffett> NeXT guy?
May 01 18:47:47 <muthu> guess i can use drools from php
May 01 18:48:05 <dmoffett> I much prefer android over Apples mobil solution but I am getting paid to port my app over.
May 01 18:49:12 <muthu> dmoffett: if you are paid, then you obey the master ;)
May 01 18:49:32 <dmoffett> I many masters.
May 01 18:49:41 <muthu> right
May 01 18:49:42 <dmoffett> I think you have two your self.  :-)
May 01 18:49:59 <dmoffett> that you have mentioned.
May 01 18:50:20 <muthu> i've mentioned two?
May 01 18:52:26 <dmoffett> I think you mentioned two daughters?
May 01 18:52:54 <muthu> oh yes
May 01 18:53:03 <dmoffett> ATM == Master.  I look like an atm to my son.  :-)
May 01 18:53:09 <muthu> haha
May 01 18:53:09 <Dougie188> dmoffett: does that mean your son is an apple developer.
May 01 18:53:28 <Dougie188> he looked a bit young in that picture.
May 01 18:53:57 <dmoffett> Indirectly, to feed him, I have to port to iPhone.
May 01 18:54:17 <Dougie188> heh
May 01 18:54:37 <dmoffett> I hope to start him on Ruby or Python soon though.
May 01 18:54:47 <Dougie188> not c?
May 01 18:55:04 <muthu> C - he'll learn in school
May 01 18:55:13 <Dougie188> heh
May 01 19:00:47 <michaelnovakjr_2> C is great!
May 01 19:00:57 <michaelnovakjr_2> always start with C
May 01 19:01:03 <michaelnovakjr_2> its a better way of thinking
May 01 19:01:21 <f00f-> no
May 01 19:01:23 <f00f-> start with assembly
May 01 19:01:32 <f00f-> mov ax, 5h
May 01 19:01:32 <f00f-> etc.
May 01 19:01:47 <muthu> start with hardware
May 01 19:02:07 <f00f-> actually even better is to start with HDL
May 01 19:02:11 <f00f-> like Verilog or VHDL
May 01 19:02:15 <f00f-> to really understand what's going on
May 01 19:02:26 <f00f-> makes you appreciate those for loops
May 01 19:02:32 <f00f-> no such thing as a for loop in hardware!
May 01 19:03:11 <muthu> f00f-: guess things will change
May 01 19:03:22 <muthu> probably people would start with ruby or python nowadays
May 01 19:03:52 <f00f-> sad, but probably true
May 01 19:04:04 <f00f-> those kinds of languages really encourage hacking imho
May 01 19:04:25 <f00f-> use the right tools for the right job is my view
May 01 19:04:37 <muthu> right
May 01 19:04:39 <f00f-> so whatever you need to use, learn it :P
May 01 19:08:30 <acsia> I say use sartre programming language
May 01 19:08:54 <michaelnovakjr_2> fortran
May 01 19:08:57 <michaelnovakjr_2> cobalt
May 01 19:09:07 <acsia> http://catseye.tc/projects/sartre/doc/sartre.html
May 01 19:09:08 <michaelnovakjr_2> *o
May 01 19:09:28 <acsia> quoting: "Statements in Sartre have essentially no philosophical purpose; they just are. Thus, Sartre programs are often left to define their own functions."
May 01 19:09:57 <Dougie188> fortran blows.
May 01 19:10:01 <Dougie188> everyone should forget it
May 01 19:42:31 * davidw disagrees with the tools metaphor
May 01 19:42:42 <davidw> PL's are much more complex than, say, a hammer
May 01 19:42:55 <davidw> there's a good reason people try and stick with as few as possible
May 01 19:53:12 <Lede> i do everything with a spoon
May 01 20:51:45 <jasta> yawn
May 01 20:56:00 <GodsMoo1> is anybody using SimpleCursorAdapter.ViewBinder ?
May 01 20:56:42 <GodsMoo1> I've seen a lot of people extending the listAdapter
May 01 20:56:59 <GodsMoo1> but nobody has mentioned the ViewBinder
May 01 21:01:06 <jasta> GodsMoo1: i have used it numerous times.
May 01 21:01:17 <jasta> and i have also extended listadapter.  sometimes the ViewBinder is not what you need, sometimes it is.
May 01 21:06:31 <GodsMoo1> jasta do you have an example of how you used it? or is your app open source?
May 01 21:13:41 <jasta> well he left before i coudl answer :)
May 01 21:32:30 <Marvin_> Hello, does someone know when exactly the 100->50 entries selection started ?
May 01 21:34:43 <jasta> Marvin_: no.
May 01 21:34:48 <jasta> i mean, i don't.
May 01 21:34:50 <jasta> someone does ;)
May 01 21:35:06 <Marvin_> ok :) thanks :)
May 01 21:35:25 <Marvin_> I'm fine with that answer :)
May 01 21:35:32 <dmoffett> I asked earlier and I think there is a lot of guessing going on.
May 01 21:35:50 <Marvin_> yes, a lot of speculations indeed
May 01 21:35:50 <dmoffett> Maybe hoping as well.  :-)
May 01 21:36:19 <Marvin_> on my side I got a few hits on saturday
May 01 21:36:25 <Marvin_> and A LOT on sunday
May 01 21:36:36 <dmoffett> I think it has been narrowed down to 666 and those are not going to hell.
May 01 21:36:39 <Marvin_> well... a lot more.
May 01 21:36:50 <Marvin_> :)
May 01 21:37:24 <dmoffett> Cool I would think that would be a good indicator.
May 01 21:37:35 <dmoffett> My application was hit but not for long.
May 01 21:37:46 <dmoffett> Which I take as lack of interest.
May 01 21:38:03 <dmoffett> No surprise really though.
May 01 21:38:06 <f00f-> the judges are probably sick of apps already
May 01 21:42:51 <donomo> i would be.
May 01 21:43:18 <donomo> "if i have to load one more buggy image viewer app i'll...." :)
May 01 22:42:59 <jasta> ugh, now i'm all stressed out about work stuff :)
May 01 23:22:10 <f00f-> very quiet in here
May 01 23:22:30 <dmoffett> working on our buggy image viewer programs.
May 01 23:23:03 <benley> busy causing attorney to defenestrate landlord
May 01 23:23:23 <f00f-> good real-world problems :)
May 01 23:23:33 <dmoffett> is there any hope the lawyer will go out as well?
May 02 01:23:47 <Dougie187> woot. the office is on
May 02 01:29:55 <jjt009> jasta: yhello?
May 02 01:30:21 <jjt009> anyone here?
May 02 01:30:32 <jjt009> f00f-: you got server hits?
May 02 01:32:00 <f00f-> jjt009: nope, but according to dan the app has been scored.
May 02 01:32:35 <f00f-> i might have a clue as to why i have no hits... it could be a firewall misconfiguration, but i won't speculate.
May 02 01:32:55 <Dougie187> just think, you will know if you win on monday
May 02 01:32:56 <Dougie187> lol
May 02 01:33:01 <Dougie187> too many people are freaking paranoid.
May 02 01:33:07 <f00f-> exactly... lol
May 02 01:33:33 <Dougie187> noone knows if they are revaluating the apps or not.
May 02 01:34:42 <Kraln> I should check my logs.
May 02 01:34:43 <jjt009> exactly my question
May 02 01:34:51 <jjt009> jasta would know
May 02 01:34:55 <jjt009> his server is working
May 02 01:35:05 <jjt009> f00f-: how'd you contact morrill?
May 02 01:35:21 <f00f-> good ole email on port 25 ;)
May 02 01:35:30 <Kraln> nothing since the 27th.
May 02 01:35:30 <Dougie187> Jasta doesnt know.
May 02 01:35:30 <Dougie187> jasta is just paranoid.
May 02 01:35:30 <Dougie187> afaik he hasnt gotten any hits.
May 02 01:35:31 <Dougie187> lol
May 02 01:35:43 <Kraln> I got hit at least twice, on the 25th and the 27th
May 02 01:36:02 <jjt009> yeah, same here
May 02 01:36:08 <jjt009> 27th was the weekend right,?
May 02 01:36:51 <jjt009> Kraln: so then I think they'
May 02 01:36:56 <jjt009> re not rescoring
May 02 01:37:54 <jjt009> f00f-: did you use email address morrilldl@google.com?
May 02 01:38:00 <Dougie187> lol
May 02 01:38:01 <jjt009> i tried that and i didn't get any response
May 02 01:38:02 <Dougie187> hes in here.
May 02 01:38:06 <f00f-> i leeched it off the groups
May 02 01:38:07 <f00f-> i think so
May 02 01:38:14 <jjt009> yeah, so did i
May 02 01:38:14 <Dougie187> just try and talk to him in here
May 02 01:38:20 <Dougie187> well not right now at least.
May 02 01:38:20 <Dougie187> usually he is
May 02 01:38:24 <f00f-> i sent in plain text
May 02 01:38:26 <jjt009> Dougie187: he never responds
May 02 01:38:41 <f00f-> also the domain i sent from has SPF records
May 02 01:38:46 <jjt009> Dougie187: he's not in here now?
May 02 01:39:01 <jjt009> SPF?
May 02 01:39:13 <Dougie187> hes not in here now.
May 02 01:39:18 <Dougie187> but when he is he responds a decent amount of the time
May 02 01:39:22 <jjt009> yeo
May 02 01:39:24 <jjt009> yep
May 02 01:39:28 <f00f-> spam fighting stuff
May 02 01:39:39 <jjt009> oh, ok
May 02 01:39:43 <jjt009> yeah, i sent from yahoo
May 02 01:39:46 <jjt009> that should be fine
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 02 02:59:57 2008