**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 10 02:59:57 2008
May 10 03:00:35 <f00f-> i'd want to attend dan's talk on wednesday
May 10 03:05:43 <chadkouse> ok man see you there ;)
May 10 03:20:10 <Dougie187> hola muthu
May 10 03:20:25 <muthu> morning Dougie187
May 10 03:20:34 <Dougie187> how are you today?
May 10 03:20:40 <muthu> pretty good
May 10 03:20:45 <duey> did you win muthu
May 10 03:20:49 <muthu> duey: yes
May 10 03:20:52 <duey> fuck yeah!
May 10 03:20:58 <muthu> :)
May 10 03:21:00 <duey> good stuff
May 10 03:21:05 <muthu> duey: you?
May 10 03:21:08 <duey> obvn ot
May 10 03:21:14 <Dougie187> obv not?
May 10 03:21:16 <duey> jasta not either :'(
May 10 03:21:27 <muthu> yeah jasta is a bit downer
May 10 03:21:37 <muthu> i thought he'll win
May 10 03:22:00 <muthu> but after zhobbs announced something similar
May 10 03:22:30 <muthu> but still i though a couple of media players will win
May 10 03:23:04 <duey> you said yours was a cooking app
May 10 03:23:08 <duey> what did it do exactly?
May 10 03:23:25 <Dougie187> noone knows
May 10 03:23:40 <Dougie187> its a mystery app
May 10 03:23:47 <duey> muthu, no BREAKING NEWS: I WON
May 10 03:23:49 <duey> ?
May 10 03:23:55 <muthu> duey: no more breaking
May 10 03:24:00 <duey> lol
May 10 03:24:05 <muthu> will keep quiet for sometime
May 10 03:24:10 <muthu> atleast until p2 is over
May 10 03:24:15 <duey> fair
May 10 03:24:19 <duey> people were asking where you were
May 10 03:24:29 <f00f-> muthu
May 10 03:24:31 <f00f-> i need your app to go live
May 10 03:24:32 <f00f-> thanks.
May 10 03:24:45 <muthu> f00f-: sure, it will definitely be on the android phone
May 10 03:24:50 <muthu> its so simple, yet useful
May 10 03:24:53 <f00f-> no, i need it right now.
May 10 03:24:56 <f00f-> this very minute :)
May 10 03:25:01 <muthu> haha
May 10 03:25:05 <muthu> you know mine is a team right
May 10 03:25:11 <muthu> my partner is the brain
May 10 03:25:14 <muthu> its hers
May 10 03:25:35 <f00f-> waht
May 10 03:25:39 <f00f-> so the girl that posted
May 10 03:25:42 <f00f-> was your brain?
May 10 03:25:42 <muthu> right
May 10 03:25:50 <muthu> the whole idea is hers
May 10 03:26:01 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr you should play halo with us!
May 10 03:26:20 <muthu> michaelnovakjr: did you win?
May 10 03:26:38 <Dougie187> he did not
May 10 03:26:39 <muthu> Dougie187: who else won from here?
May 10 03:26:47 <Dougie187> i only know zhobbs and you
May 10 03:26:51 <muthu> ok
May 10 03:27:16 <f00f-> so you had some surgery to implant her into your brain?
May 10 03:27:24 <duey> f00f- won
May 10 03:27:38 <muthu> f00f-: congrats, what's your app?
May 10 03:27:46 <f00f-> pednav
May 10 03:27:58 <muthu> you have link?
May 10 03:28:04 <f00f-> it's on helloandroid
May 10 03:28:08 <f00f-> website not yet ready
May 10 03:28:10 <muthu> oh, cool
May 10 03:28:12 <muthu> great
May 10 03:29:08 <f00f-> i hate doing HTML layouts
May 10 03:29:17 <f00f-> or fixing CSS problems
May 10 03:29:19 <muthu> hate design of any kind
May 10 03:29:32 <f00f-> if you look at google's cache of pednav.com you'll see what kinds of sites i like
May 10 03:29:43 <muthu> haha
May 10 03:37:07 <jtoy> i didnt get any notificaiton from google
May 10 03:38:14 <duey> jtoy, did yo have any copyright stuff in your app?
May 10 03:38:27 <jtoy> no
May 10 03:38:32 <duey> checked your spam folder?
May 10 03:38:41 <jtoy> yes, im sure i didnt get it
May 10 03:39:11 <jtoy> i set up an alias that goes to me and my partner
May 10 03:39:16 <jtoy> we both didnt get anything
May 10 03:40:14 <duey> i dont know..
May 10 03:41:02 <jtoy>   :( thanks
May 10 03:54:20 <jasta> yawn
May 10 03:55:10 <michaelnovakjr> hey jasta
May 10 03:55:10 <jasta> muthu: i honestly don't consider zhobbs' app "similar"
May 10 03:55:47 <muthu> jasta: right, but his late announcement regarding media player was a surprise to me
May 10 03:56:15 <jasta> i truly can't get my head around how he scored higher on the 4 criteria: originality, polish and appeal, effective use of android, and indespensability.
May 10 03:56:42 <muthu> he would have made it up on other counts
May 10 03:56:44 <jasta> i think i just fell through a crack in the judging process
May 10 03:56:51 <muthu> jasta: are you continuing 5?
May 10 03:56:54 <jasta> muthu: those are the only 4 counts.
May 10 03:57:00 <muthu> or looking to join a team?
May 10 03:57:04 <jasta> he would have had to score overall higher in all 4, and i can't see how that is possible.
May 10 03:57:10 <jasta> overall quite a bit higher, too.
May 10 03:57:14 <jasta> since i wasnt in the top 100
May 10 03:57:18 <jasta> and he won in the top 50
May 10 03:57:35 <jasta> muthu: yes, but i'm abandoning the Android part for now, since there is no rush to complete that portion.
May 10 03:57:43 <jasta> i will be shifting focus to the desktop component
May 10 03:58:02 <muthu> jasta: cool, we'll meet in I/O
May 10 03:58:19 <jasta> so, are you ever going to publish your app? :)
May 10 03:58:21 <duey> muthu, you going now ?
May 10 03:58:31 <duey> how much is a trip to usa from india?
May 10 03:58:34 <muthu> jasta: may 12, it will be published anyways
May 10 03:58:42 <muthu> duey: yes, i'll be there
May 10 03:58:43 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, you use an iPod right?
May 10 03:58:45 <jasta> you're going to let Google get the first press?
May 10 03:58:51 <muthu> duey: its all expensive, but need to do it
May 10 03:58:54 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: kind of.  i used to, but i can't stand it.
May 10 03:58:56 <duey> right
May 10 03:59:10 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, work with ubuntu?
May 10 03:59:25 <jasta> yeah, Rhythmbox supports it, but it has problems all the flippin time
May 10 03:59:41 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i always get write permissions errors
May 10 03:59:42 <jasta> i've destroyed the iTunes database 4 times now, and had to like redo it all from scratch
May 10 04:00:00 <f00f-> oh muthu, you're flying out to the valley?
May 10 04:00:08 <muthu> f00f-: yes
May 10 04:00:11 <f00f-> nice
May 10 04:00:13 <muthu> will be there for IO
May 10 04:00:22 <muthu> excited to meet all you folks
May 10 04:00:25 <jasta> that's gonna cost like a grand :)
May 10 04:00:33 <muthu> jasta: oh yeah
May 10 04:00:42 <muthu> my share would be wasted
May 10 04:00:54 <muthu> err.. spend useful really
May 10 04:01:36 <muthu> if my partner gives me some lodging that would be cool ;)
May 10 04:01:43 <muthu> but guess not
May 10 04:01:48 <jasta> i think i'm just gonna go get back to work.
May 10 04:02:23 <muthu> jasta: we'll talk soon
May 10 04:03:08 <jasta> but yeah, the android piece is certainly on pause for now.
May 10 04:03:17 <muthu> jasta: cool
May 10 04:03:32 <jasta> the launch has got to be at least 5 months out
May 10 04:03:45 <muthu> yeah later part of this year
May 10 04:03:48 <jasta> i'd much rather built the desktop component than polish an app i can't even use.
May 10 04:03:51 * duey doesnt know what to do
May 10 04:03:57 <jasta> build*
May 10 04:04:07 <duey> i really want a device that i can use
May 10 04:05:09 <muthu> hey, are the teams allowed to expand for p2?
May 10 04:05:20 <muthu> bring new members?
May 10 04:05:35 <f00f-> ADc I.2 ?
May 10 04:05:41 <f00f-> i dont believe so
May 10 04:05:51 <muthu> f00f-: right
May 10 04:05:56 <f00f-> although not sure, depends on what the submit form looks like?
May 10 04:05:57 <duey> i dont see why not
May 10 04:06:17 <f00f-> similar question, if you want to go from individual -> team
May 10 04:06:48 <muthu> me too, guess you can expand your team
May 10 04:08:16 <jasta> my guess is you can, but you have to arbitrate the distribution of funds
May 10 04:09:06 <muthu> jasta: right
May 10 04:09:36 <muthu> if the rules doesn't have a problem, we can see some teams expanding
May 10 04:09:50 <jasta> which can get very ugly
May 10 04:09:56 <muthu> why?
May 10 04:10:09 <jasta> well, just because you have to negotiate what the contribution is worth very clearly
May 10 04:10:30 <muthu> yeah, you have a point
May 10 04:10:41 <muthu> assuming the teams can sort it out, it would be cool
May 10 04:13:46 <jasta> argh, i am so freaking bummed out today :)
May 10 04:13:49 <jasta> it's really hard to write code
May 10 04:13:57 <duey> just delete it all in rage
May 10 04:14:02 <duey> you can do it
May 10 04:14:14 <jasta> it's honestly tough because i was basically a shoe-in
May 10 04:14:20 <jasta> i was a shoe-in for the win, and i lost anyway.
May 10 04:14:31 <jasta> nobody can figure out how
May 10 04:14:52 <duey> only reason i can think of maybe is judges got confused
May 10 04:15:20 <jasta> right, but then they must not have read the README file :\
May 10 04:15:23 <living_sword> i wonder how tunewiki got in
May 10 04:15:34 <duey> bribes?
May 10 04:15:45 <jasta> my app certainly had successful tests
May 10 04:15:51 <jasta> i mean, judges were goin around listening to music, all that
May 10 04:15:54 <jasta> i could see it from my server logs
May 10 04:16:08 <living_sword> the interface is iphone mockup, idea is a simple port .
May 10 04:17:31 <duey> jasta, maybe you were confirmed to be a terrorist?
May 10 04:18:06 <jasta> I confirmed with Dan that I wasn't even in the top 100 :(
May 10 04:18:14 <jasta> my demolitions background was not even called into question! :)
May 10 04:18:14 <duey> w t f
May 10 04:18:50 <poffy> jasta, I'm really suprised
May 10 04:18:59 <poffy> I really liked the concept for your app
May 10 04:19:15 <poffy> I never personally tried it, but I'm sure the implementation was fine
May 10 04:20:09 <jasta> yeah, the implementation was solid, it worked just like you'd expect
May 10 04:20:11 <jasta> the UI was clean
May 10 04:20:13 <jasta> it really did work
May 10 04:20:20 <living_sword> depends on what the judges like. if the judge was not a music enthusiast, he would be almost impossible to impress
May 10 04:20:32 <duey> yeah
May 10 04:20:53 <jasta> well, a music player did win, though.
May 10 04:21:06 <jasta> TuneWiki won, so, I dunno.  And like I said, I didn't even make top 100.
May 10 04:21:16 <jasta> I don't mean to whine, but I think I just got douched.
May 10 04:21:28 <jasta> I think I lost by random chance.
May 10 04:21:37 <duey> yeah man i agree
May 10 04:21:47 <living_sword> tunewiki is just a port. its not even an original concept for android
May 10 04:21:54 <zhobbs> living_sword: not really a port though
May 10 04:22:03 <jasta> living_sword: Right, so consider this: TuneWiki had to score significantly higher in all 4 of the categories over my app
May 10 04:22:11 <jasta> I just can't see how that is possible.
May 10 04:22:20 <zhobbs> hehe
May 10 04:22:29 <zhobbs> it turned out pretty nice
May 10 04:22:38 <jasta> I can't see anyone comparing the two side-by-side and coming to the conclusion that TuneWiki is significantly more polished, original, indispensible, etc.
May 10 04:23:14 <jasta> So my only thought was that I lost because they were not compared side-by-side.  Different judges means different normalized scores means one app can fare significantly worse than another even when they should at least be on par.
May 10 04:23:39 <living_sword> not against any1. just wondering what happened to the originality factor
May 10 04:23:42 <jasta> I watched the video for TuneWiki and I thought it looked like a nice, polished media player that I'd be happy to have on a phone.
May 10 04:24:14 <jasta> But I don't see it scoring overwhelmingly high on indispensibility or originality.
May 10 04:24:18 <duey> jasta, judging like this is generarly unfair anyway - the only way adc would ever be fair is if the same set of judges judged every app - but thats not really realistic
May 10 04:24:33 <zhobbs> yeah, it's a nice media player with the twist of the community driven lyric synchronization
May 10 04:25:27 <jasta> it's also possible that the judges just felt, without any reasonable technical merit, that my app was impractical to work on a mobile device.
May 10 04:25:40 <jasta> they may have just decided that it would be too slow or whatever without any data supporting their assumption.
May 10 04:25:58 <zhobbs> jasta: that's what I would assume
May 10 04:26:06 <zhobbs> the judges assume that it wouldn't really work
May 10 04:26:07 <jasta> which i suppose is their prerogative since there is no data to review.  but that's certainly taking a lot of liberty to the 4 judging criterias
May 10 04:26:46 <zhobbs> but you know that the judges play with an app for a bit, get an overall feel for how they like and it stick 4 numbers in there
May 10 04:26:46 <jasta> the problem, though, is that the ADC II might not see much better results for me.
May 10 04:27:00 <zhobbs> jasta: it'll be on a real phone at least
May 10 04:27:20 <jasta> granted, physical handsets will exist, and they can test with them, but i have to assume they'll be following similar judging guidelines
May 10 04:27:28 <jasta> and so should not find my concept in any higher regard than they did the first time
May 10 04:28:26 <jasta> but actually, i would have thought the carriers at least would be excited my app.  the basic functionality will require an unlimited data connection
May 10 04:28:34 <jasta> by my app*
May 10 04:28:41 <jasta> and that means more revenue per user for them
May 10 04:28:54 <zhobbs> actually don't they want you to get unlimited but not actually use it?
May 10 04:29:03 <jasta> yeah, i suppose that is true :)
May 10 04:29:11 <jasta> the greatest profitability comes from data apps that barely do anything
May 10 04:29:19 <jasta> like MySpace Mobile and whatever
May 10 04:29:23 <zhobbs> yep
May 10 04:29:27 <living_sword> after i got the results, i watched  this video, and felt better :)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1tXhJniSEc
May 10 04:29:54 <zhobbs> enough to force user to have unlimited, but not a hog
May 10 04:30:01 <jasta> but anyway, the only way to feel better is to keep coding
May 10 04:30:01 <jasta> later
May 10 04:30:14 <zhobbs> hehe, sorry about your luck
May 10 04:30:37 <zhobbs> I know you put some sweat and blood into it
May 10 04:32:17 <duey> so zhobbs
May 10 04:32:25 <duey> got a buying list or you saving it up
May 10 04:33:03 <duey> better turn it into gold quick
May 10 04:33:12 <duey> will be worth nothing in a year
May 10 04:33:14 <living_sword> or oil !
May 10 04:33:27 <duey> oil might be a good one too
May 10 04:33:49 <duey> although barrels of oil are harder to store
May 10 04:34:30 <zhobbs> heh
May 10 04:34:35 <zhobbs> actually...
May 10 04:34:43 <zhobbs> I don't get that much from it
May 10 04:34:48 <duey> oh?
May 10 04:34:50 <duey> group?
May 10 04:34:56 <zhobbs> I was hired
May 10 04:34:59 <duey> oh
May 10 04:34:59 <duey> :(
May 10 04:35:04 <living_sword> :|
May 10 04:35:12 <zhobbs> So I made most of my money by the hour
May 10 04:35:22 <living_sword> but theres the pride
May 10 04:35:28 <zhobbs> exactly
May 10 04:35:39 <zhobbs> and I'll get like 5k or so of the 25
May 10 04:35:46 <duey> ah ok
May 10 04:35:49 <duey> thats still decent
May 10 04:35:53 <zhobbs> yeah, for sure
May 10 04:36:22 <duey> you might be able to buy 5 oucnes of gold at least
May 10 04:36:36 <zhobbs> heh
May 10 04:36:52 <zhobbs> going to ask to be paid in euros
May 10 04:36:55 <zhobbs> :)
May 10 04:36:58 <duey> haha
May 10 04:36:59 <duey> nice
May 10 04:37:06 <living_sword> i say buy all the gphones u can .
May 10 04:37:06 <zhobbs> j/k
May 10 04:37:09 <zhobbs> yeah
May 10 04:37:15 <duey> living_sword, none?
May 10 04:37:38 <living_sword> ?
May 10 04:37:38 <duey> i really need a device to continue working on mine
May 10 04:37:47 <duey> and there is nothing :(
May 10 04:38:28 <living_sword> i think rules and criteria for ADC 2 will change
May 10 04:39:33 <living_sword> i hope judges too :)
May 10 04:39:38 <duey> lol
May 10 04:41:03 <jasta> yeah, really :)
May 10 04:41:12 <jasta> i'd like to fire the current judges ;)
May 10 04:41:35 <duey> I bet you would :)
May 10 04:41:42 <jasta> i'm actually trying to get this server ready to launch so i can put the software in people's hands and let them be the judge ;)
May 10 04:41:58 <jasta> i'm so frustrated it's all i can think of to do
May 10 04:41:59 <living_sword> well u got SlideME awards
May 10 04:42:07 <jasta> what?
May 10 04:42:38 <living_sword> slideme.org is having an award for adc loosers
May 10 04:42:54 <living_sword> so that the comunity can judge
May 10 04:43:09 <jasta> lol really?
May 10 04:43:38 <living_sword> theres no prize, its just for visibility
May 10 04:44:26 <living_sword> good for showing off ur app
May 10 04:45:26 <living_sword> i hope ADC 2 is tighter.
May 10 04:45:27 <jasta> yeah of course, but that's what i'm ultimately after.
May 10 04:45:39 <living_sword> yep
May 10 04:47:27 <living_sword> some of my hopes r on the oha members response like it said in the mail
May 10 04:48:01 <jasta> yeah, i was wondering if that was just to make folks feel better about losing
May 10 04:48:11 <duey> yeah
May 10 04:48:22 <duey> it could be venture captial stuff which is a bit~~
May 10 04:48:59 <living_sword> i think it will be a contract job
May 10 04:49:06 <living_sword> u make app for them
May 10 04:49:15 <living_sword> or they buy rights for ur app
May 10 04:49:17 <duey> could be
May 10 04:49:46 <jasta> i'm not putting a lot of stake in that...
May 10 04:49:54 <duey> neither
May 10 04:49:59 <jasta> i didn't make it to the top 100, i don't think mine even got attention
May 10 04:49:59 <living_sword> me too.
May 10 04:50:45 <living_sword> i wonder if my app got thrown out due to copyright issues.
May 10 04:51:03 <duey> lol
May 10 04:51:05 <living_sword> that would make me kinda winner :)
May 10 04:51:16 <jasta> i am wondering how TuneWiki got the rights to distribute lyrics...
May 10 04:51:18 <jasta> ;)
May 10 04:51:25 <duey> yeah i wondered about that too
May 10 04:51:30 <duey> thats a very risky area
May 10 04:51:39 <jasta> they claim they got approval from Universal
May 10 04:51:52 <jasta> which i find really hard to believe that one of the big 4 would just say "sure, why not?"
May 10 04:51:59 <jasta> that's not really their attitude on anything
May 10 04:52:03 <living_sword> the owner must be from music industry
May 10 04:52:10 <duey> yeah could be an insider
May 10 04:53:35 <f00f-> maybe they don't know about it
May 10 04:53:38 <f00f-> it's not on their radar
May 10 04:53:51 <f00f-> the industry doesn't care until you have an established user base and it is worth suing
May 10 04:54:01 <f00f-> you want to wait until you can put a big dent into them
May 10 04:54:04 <jasta> well, Google would have certainly investigated that before awarding them the win
May 10 04:54:06 <f00f-> (from industry's point of view)
May 10 04:54:20 <jasta> the OHA can't promote and distribute an app which violates copyright
May 10 04:54:40 <jasta> i believe that they got the right somehow, i just have no idea how
May 10 04:54:41 <f00f-> do we know they were distributing actual lyrics with the submission?
May 10 04:55:01 <jasta> no, but the apps main feature is that it accesses their server and downloads this stuff
May 10 04:55:15 <living_sword> what else does it do except lyrics ?
May 10 04:55:20 <jasta> nothing
May 10 04:55:24 <living_sword> wow
May 10 04:55:25 <jasta> it copies the iPhone, then adds lyrics
May 10 04:55:42 <living_sword> way to go Google
May 10 04:55:46 <jasta> which is why it's so fucking infuriating that they won over me.
May 10 04:57:54 <living_sword> i wish i could use abusive language to comment on this situation, i'll just say its appalling.
May 10 04:58:16 <jasta> sorry, i know i don't have a great attitude here ;)
May 10 04:58:31 <jasta> i was ok until i found out specifically that TuneWiki won, then i lost it
May 10 04:58:53 <living_sword> this situation demands foul language.
May 10 04:59:27 <jasta> anyway, i'll be quiet.  i actually do want to build up this server part still and release it to the world
May 10 04:59:37 <jasta> i'm kind of excited to move away from the android client now
May 10 04:59:48 <jasta> and go onto a more practical app i can actually *USE* :)
May 10 05:00:09 <living_sword> yep, no more android for atleast a month
May 10 05:00:15 <duey> id like to try iphone stuff but it means i need to upgrade to intel macs
May 10 05:00:25 <jasta> could be a lot longer for me, i dont anticipate that the desktop client will be a piece of cake.
May 10 05:00:28 <jasta> the android client wasn't ;)
May 10 05:00:36 <duey> (and acqure an iphone/ipod touch)
May 10 05:01:03 <living_sword> yeah, iphone dev requires some investment
May 10 05:01:53 <jasta> in other news
May 10 05:01:57 <jasta> the minus the bear show last night was amazing
May 10 05:02:00 <jasta> they really owned
May 10 05:09:23 <living_sword> any1 moving to WM6 ?
May 10 05:09:59 <duey> wm6?
May 10 05:10:08 <living_sword> windows mobile
May 10 05:10:12 <duey> no
May 10 05:10:40 <jasta> i already use WM6
May 10 05:11:13 <living_sword> its not much of an eye candy without HTC
May 10 05:11:31 <jasta> no, it's a miserable platform
May 10 05:11:38 <jasta> very bad
May 10 05:12:52 <living_sword> symbian has a contest going on, but u need to be a registered company for that
May 10 05:13:11 <jasta> symbian is so lame to develop for
May 10 05:14:45 <living_sword> as developers our options r very limited
May 10 05:17:12 <living_sword> right now, the brightest point appears to be iphone.
May 10 05:34:01 <jtoy> what is the platform to use for nokia's stuff?
May 10 05:34:04 <jtoy> is that any good?
May 10 05:38:01 <jasta> nokia uses symbian series 60
May 10 05:38:04 <jasta> and it's *AWFUL*
May 10 05:38:08 <jasta> probably the worst of the bunch
May 10 05:38:27 <f00f-> depends on what you would like to do...
May 10 05:38:49 <f00f-> native Symbian, Java ME, Web Runtime/Widgets, Python, etc.
May 10 05:38:52 <f00f-> or even Open C
May 10 05:39:11 <f00f-> with nokia you have plenty of runtime choices
May 10 05:40:51 <jasta> i'm spoeaking to native Symbian.
May 10 05:40:56 <jasta> speaking*
May 10 05:42:13 <f00f-> yeah native is pretty ugly, behind the times
May 10 05:49:49 <davidw> I've heard it's a bitch to develop for
May 10 05:55:16 <jtoy> so what is the "easiest" platform after android?
May 10 05:55:33 <jtoy> easiest also meaning largest distrubition
May 10 05:55:36 <jtoy> and not super shitty
May 10 05:59:15 <f00f-> Java ME is shitty, but not super shitty
May 10 05:59:24 <f00f-> maybe check out Sprint Titan
May 10 05:59:32 <f00f-> but it's pretty limited audience (Sprint devices)
May 10 05:59:35 <f00f-> for now at least
May 10 06:04:48 <davidw> Java ME is very widely deployed
May 10 06:04:59 <davidw> it's kind of shitty, but so is everything else
May 10 06:05:32 <jasta> actually, i'd say that Windows Mobile (when using .NET CF2) is next in line
May 10 06:05:43 <jasta> but it isn't a close call ;)
May 10 06:05:52 <jasta> Android is a clear leader of this pack
May 10 06:14:37 <davidw> except that little "no actual phones" thing.  I hope they come out more or less on schedule, and that they have a "cunning plan" in terms of the platform not turning into 343243 versions
May 10 06:21:17 <jasta> i think their cunning plan is that manufacturers won't want that, and so won't do that.
May 10 06:24:33 <jasta> the community will have little influence on the manufacturers, i think
May 10 06:24:39 <jasta> they wont really be that interested in homebrew forks
May 10 06:24:56 <jasta> im sure they will be happy to use the cream that floats to the top, but nothing else
May 10 07:18:20 <jasta> well...
May 10 07:18:22 <jasta> my server has a UI now
May 10 07:18:29 <jasta> that came together quickly :)
May 10 07:20:46 <romainguy__> :)
May 10 07:21:15 <jasta> hey romain
May 10 07:21:19 <jasta> is JavaOne all done?
May 10 07:21:23 <romainguy__> yes
May 10 07:21:28 <jasta> how was it?
May 10 07:21:33 <romainguy__> great
May 10 07:21:41 <romainguy__> I packed the room for my session
May 10 07:21:43 <jasta> you had a talk there, right?
May 10 07:21:45 <romainguy__> 900+ attendees :)
May 10 07:21:53 <jasta> impressive
May 10 07:22:11 <romainguy__> it was also interesting to see Sun run a Java FX demo on Android during their keynote...
May 10 07:22:37 <romainguy__> but alas, this JavaOne confirmed my doubt about Java FX
May 10 07:22:37 <jasta> yeah, that surprised me.  i didn't know Sun had anything going on with Android
May 10 07:22:44 <jasta> which is what?
May 10 07:22:53 <romainguy__> which is that it will go nowhere
May 10 07:23:02 <romainguy__> they pulled all the resources form other projects to work on this
May 10 07:23:04 <jasta> i don't know much about it, but why?
May 10 07:23:17 <romainguy__> stupid political agendas from two persons
May 10 07:23:30 <davidw> interesting
May 10 07:23:34 <romainguy__> totally personal opinion: one is stupid, the other one is an asshole
May 10 07:23:59 <davidw> I admit to not having a great 'feel' for JavaFX, but it's a sensation, rather than anything based on concrete facts
May 10 07:24:06 <romainguy__> Adobe already got 2 key members of the Swing team
May 10 07:24:13 <romainguy__> more are seriously considering abandoning ship
May 10 07:24:30 <romainguy__> davidw: I actually happen to be the first Sun employee to have seen Java FX, in 2005
May 10 07:24:41 <romainguy__> it was a skunkwork project from a Seebeyond employee
May 10 07:24:46 <romainguy__> called Foo at that time
May 10 07:25:06 <jasta> so, what are your thoughts on the ADC? :)
May 10 07:25:21 <romainguy__> jasta: I haven't see the results/apps yet :))
May 10 07:25:34 <jasta> ahh, i think its to be announced publicly on Monday
May 10 07:25:35 <romainguy__> I was too busy recovering from a week-long hangover ;-)
May 10 07:25:39 <jasta> lol
May 10 07:25:53 <jasta> i felt like death on Tuesday
May 10 07:26:02 <romainguy__> (the best thing about JavaOne is the parties at night... 7 nights of free booze...)
May 10 07:26:03 <davidw> eheheh, and for nothing at that:-/
May 10 07:26:22 <davidw> I was glad my daughter beat the results in coming out
May 10 07:26:39 <romainguy__> davidw: oh that's right, I forgot, congratulations!
May 10 07:26:46 <jasta> romainguy__: i actually lost, which has a lot of people scratching their heads...
May 10 07:26:48 <davidw> thanks:-)
May 10 07:27:11 <davidw> http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2008/05/android-developer-challenge-round-i.html
May 10 07:27:15 <davidw> did you see that, jasta?
May 10 07:27:32 <jasta> no, reading...
May 10 07:27:33 <davidw> "Many of the top submissions took advantage of the geo and social networking capabilities of Android."
May 10 07:27:52 <romainguy__> jasta: judges were acting as simple users
May 10 07:28:03 <davidw> I hope that there is a broader range of things rather than social networks.  I expected a few of those, but hopefully there is lots of other good stuff
May 10 07:28:20 <jasta> romainguy__: i don't know what you mean by that?
May 10 07:28:42 <romainguy__> jasta: just that because you know people who find your application great doesn't mean it will be the case for everybody
May 10 07:29:22 <jasta> right, but in the same capacity the judges cannot speak for a much larger community.
May 10 07:29:46 <jasta> i remain confident that my app can find great success in user's hands.  assuming that it doesn't destroy the mobile data network :)
May 10 07:29:48 <romainguy__> but did this larger community declared your app better than 1730 others? :)
May 10 07:29:55 <romainguy__> you shouldn't worry about this contest
May 10 07:29:58 <davidw> jasta, I think there's a distinct possibility that the set of apps that are popular may not overlap with the set of winning apps, at least in some categories
May 10 07:30:16 <romainguy__> while I understand how it can be frustrating, that won't prevent your app from having success (or not, depending on the app :)
May 10 07:30:30 <jasta> yeah, it's just disappointing ;)
May 10 07:30:33 <davidw> if I were a judge, I would probably go more for flash and coolness than something handy and pedestrian
May 10 07:30:35 <jasta> i thought i was a shoe-in, hehe
May 10 07:30:59 <romainguy__> jasta: :)
May 10 07:31:05 <jasta> i thought for sure if i didn't win it would simply be because the judges were turned off by how much i stole the iPhone UI
May 10 07:31:16 <romainguy__> it can be for many reasons
May 10 07:31:17 <jasta> but that turned out not to be true at all.  another app which blatantly stole the iPhone UI won.
May 10 07:31:21 <romainguy__> maybe they didn't care about a media player
May 10 07:31:30 <romainguy__> maybe they didn't understand the purpose
May 10 07:31:30 <jasta> romainguy__: well, another media player did win.
May 10 07:31:44 <romainguy__> jasta: but there were 100 judges...
May 10 07:31:48 <davidw> jasta, which one?
May 10 07:31:51 <jasta> right
May 10 07:31:53 <jasta> davidw: TuneWiki
May 10 07:31:56 * davidw is really curious to see the list
May 10 07:32:03 <jasta> romainguy__: Well anyway, this changes my strategy some moving forward.
May 10 07:32:09 <romainguy__> any contest with judges is obviously unfair to the contestants :)
May 10 07:32:16 <jasta> Now that there is no immediate Android pressure, I am pausing that client fo rnow.
May 10 07:32:25 <romainguy__> at least it buys you time :))
May 10 07:32:30 <jasta> I will move onto the desktop client, allowing you to access your music while at work or whatever.
May 10 07:32:56 <davidw> huh, interesting
May 10 07:32:59 <jasta> So that I can at least get the technology out there now.
May 10 07:33:00 <davidw> they have a 'web version' too
May 10 07:33:23 <davidw> I did that for my client's app
May 10 07:33:43 <davidw> *that* would be a nice app: find a way to make android apps work on the web
May 10 07:33:51 <davidw> for demo purposes
May 10 07:38:25 <davidw> jasta, I still think that in any case, creating a business around stuff is a better bet than contests
May 10 07:38:43 <jasta> well, that depends what your long term goal is.
May 10 07:38:48 <davidw> I normally don't participate in them, this one was good because I would have done the Hecl port anyway
May 10 07:39:08 <davidw> jasta, well, in terms of money
May 10 07:39:11 <jasta> i mean, i don't regard my app as marketable.
May 10 07:39:20 <davidw> if it's just to create something cool, you don't need anything
May 10 07:39:40 <davidw> jasta, no?  I wouldn't be surprised if there were a way
May 10 07:39:42 <jasta> then again i never regard any app as marketable.  i really don't get business i guess ;)
May 10 07:39:53 <davidw> I think that's a mistake too many tech people make
May 10 07:40:17 <jasta> i guess there is a partner tie-in with a music distribution system
May 10 07:40:22 <jasta> iTunes-style
May 10 07:40:38 <jasta> which would work well with my app, since it could just wirelessly sync the purchased music back up to your PC
May 10 07:40:39 <davidw> I mean, I'll never be a 'business guy', but understanding more of it has helped me in various ways
May 10 07:40:56 <davidw> what's your url again?
May 10 07:40:58 <jasta> but meh, i just like to get my software in people's hands.
May 10 07:41:09 <jasta> more than making money directly from it
May 10 07:41:17 <jasta> davidw: for what?
May 10 07:41:21 <davidw> me too, but having money is good too.  I'd work on open source stuff 100% of the time if money were no object
May 10 07:41:24 <davidw> your app
May 10 07:41:31 <jasta> five.googlecode.com
May 10 07:42:24 <davidw> jasta, maybe the bits about 'copyright restrictions' scared some people away
May 10 07:42:32 <davidw> people are touchy about that stuff these days
May 10 07:43:12 <jasta> i am very curious to confirm that TuneWiki is actually in compliance with US copyrights
May 10 07:43:35 <davidw> does it just use youtube?
May 10 07:43:43 <varjag> re
May 10 07:43:44 <jasta> the team claims that they have the right to distribute Universal music's lyrics, but I have no idea how they would get that permission other than to pay through the nose.
May 10 07:44:16 <jasta> davidw: i doubt that it would use youtube for any reason.  it just pulls in lyrics for music through a traditional player
May 10 07:44:22 <davidw> ah
May 10 07:45:17 <davidw> maybe you should have put more visible music in your demo page, too
May 10 07:45:32 <jasta> i dont think the judges went to my project page
May 10 07:45:35 <jasta> i mean, they had the app in front of them
May 10 07:45:37 <davidw> no?
May 10 07:45:49 <davidw> I hope they did look some at pages and things
May 10 07:46:08 <davidw> my client's was nice... we have a rails app that can control the phone remotely
May 10 07:47:03 <f00f-> your client davidw ?
May 10 07:47:06 <jasta> i'm gonna be in a position to release my app (with source) very soon
May 10 07:47:09 <f00f-> do you guarantee all your clients that they will win?
May 10 07:47:30 <f00f-> i assume you run sort of android/ADC consultancy? :)
May 10 07:48:09 <davidw> f00f-, nah, some guy contacted me out of the blue, paid me good money to do an app, and offered to split the winnings in any case
May 10 07:48:14 <davidw> it was a sweet deal
May 10 07:48:16 <f00f-> nice
May 10 07:48:44 <davidw> yeah, it was a stroke of luck... the guy already made his pile elsewhere, had a cool idea for an app, and wanted someone who could hack it together
May 10 07:49:05 <davidw> nice guy too, we may continue with the app in any case
May 10 07:49:07 <f00f-> and you trusted him?
May 10 07:49:11 <f00f-> who submitted the app
May 10 07:49:15 <davidw> he did
May 10 07:49:45 <davidw> f00f-, the guy wanted to win for the publicity, not for the 25K, which I kind of got wasn't that big a deal for him
May 10 07:50:08 <davidw> and he paid me for my work in any case, so I got something out of this whole deal
May 10 08:03:13 <f00f-> ah interesting, so i guess it'll work out :)
May 10 10:15:55 <cutmasta> mornin
May 10 10:15:59 <cutmasta> congratulations ALL!
May 10 10:16:20 <cutmasta> any news about a list of apks which won?
May 10 10:27:30 <chomchom>  davidw's hecl port, tune-wiki, Commandro, umdk1d3's app whatever that may be
May 10 10:27:38 <chomchom> nothing is official yet mind
May 10 10:28:15 <chomchom> oh yeah and pointgphone as well
May 10 10:28:53 <cutmasta> pointgphone?
May 10 10:29:16 <cutmasta> congrats davidw
May 10 10:59:12 <Hai-Fai> kinda strange, I didn't get any e-mail neither congratulations or thanks for nothing
May 10 11:20:39 <umdk1d3> okay so this is interesting
May 10 11:20:43 <umdk1d3> i already signed up for google io
May 10 11:20:54 <umdk1d3> idk if i should ask for the free passes or not
May 10 11:22:32 <umdk1d3> i guess they let you ask for up to 5
May 10 13:23:48 <davidw> chomchom, cutmasta: I didn't win
May 10 13:24:56 <davidw> chomchom, I got a daughter though, which is better:-)
May 10 13:48:47 <ligi> namaskar muthu
May 10 13:49:08 <muthu> ligi: halo
May 10 13:50:42 <convivial> hi
May 10 13:51:03 <ligi> aloha convivial
May 10 13:51:10 <convivial> hey
May 10 13:51:18 <ligi> convivial: what email did u get?
May 10 13:51:21 <convivial> I did not go to sleep last night
May 10 13:51:32 <ligi> so you won?
May 10 13:51:38 <convivial> won?
May 10 13:51:40 <convivial> won what?
May 10 13:51:45 <ligi> 25k
May 10 13:51:46 <convivial> I never won anything before in my life
May 10 13:51:47 <ligi> ^^
May 10 13:51:50 <convivial> heck no!
May 10 13:51:52 <ligi> ;-)
May 10 13:52:00 <convivial> i never won anything before in my life...
May 10 13:52:02 <convivial> have you?
May 10 13:52:25 <ligi> no
May 10 13:52:39 <ligi> but muthu did
May 10 13:52:43 <ligi> ;-)
May 10 13:53:20 <ligi> muthu for president
May 10 13:53:24 <muthu> haha
May 10 13:53:32 <muthu> its a tough job!
May 10 13:53:38 <muthu> to please everyone
May 10 13:53:53 <convivial> muthu won the 25ik?
May 10 13:53:57 <convivial> I did not even try for it
May 10 13:54:03 <convivial> it's blackmail!
May 10 13:54:12 <muthu> convivial: yes, team effort
May 10 13:54:22 <convivial> muthu: very nice work...
May 10 13:54:31 <ligi> teams rock - i was all alone
May 10 13:54:44 <muthu> yeah, team work has some positivies
May 10 13:54:46 <Kraln> muthu: so I guess you can afford my hosting now, eh =)
May 10 13:54:47 <convivial> muthu: will you be on tv and all over the time mag and tech mag?
May 10 13:54:53 <muthu> Kraln: yeah sure
May 10 13:54:57 <dpino> congratulations muthu!
May 10 13:54:58 <Kraln> :-D
May 10 13:55:06 <muthu> dpino: thx
May 10 13:55:31 <muthu> but you folks must understand its all my partner idea
May 10 13:55:32 <dpino> finally your worst predictions didnt become true...hehehe
May 10 13:55:34 <muthu> and she owns it
May 10 13:55:58 <dpino> i liked the funny mail you send to the android group list
May 10 13:55:59 <dpino> xD
May 10 13:56:00 <muthu> dpino: wait for more predictions ;)
May 10 13:56:06 <Kraln> muthu: which is your program again?
May 10 13:56:07 <muthu> haha
May 10 13:56:12 <zhobbs> muthu: you guys going to fill the form to disclose the apps info monday?
May 10 13:56:16 <muthu> a cooking app
May 10 13:56:19 <muthu> zhobbs: yes
May 10 13:56:30 <zhobbs> cool, I want a screenshot
May 10 13:56:45 <muthu> i can't catch my partner now
May 10 13:56:49 <muthu> must be partying ;)
May 10 13:57:01 <zhobbs> :)
May 10 13:57:13 <dims> muthu: congrats!
May 10 13:57:22 <muthu> dims: thanks
May 10 13:57:33 <muthu> finally won something!
May 10 13:57:33 <convivial> muthu: are you guys going to do well from publicity?
May 10 13:57:42 <muthu> convivial: hell yeah
May 10 13:57:46 <convivial> nice!
May 10 13:57:51 <muthu> and this is something i see in top 20
May 10 13:57:52 <convivial> i'm jealous :)
May 10 13:58:18 <muthu> convivial: we all get our chance, don't worry
May 10 13:58:28 <convivial> I am still learning android sdk...
May 10 13:58:43 <convivial> write now i'm working on DICOM viewer and XML parser
May 10 13:58:50 <muthu> cool
May 10 13:58:51 <convivial> android uses event parsing *barf*
May 10 13:59:02 <convivial> i don't like sax
May 10 13:59:19 <muthu> Kraln: when you are going to bill me?
May 10 13:59:25 <muthu> haha
May 10 13:59:28 <Kraln> muthu: I poked you into pm
May 10 13:59:39 <muthu> yeah, the pm thing i can never understand
May 10 13:59:53 <zhobbs> muthu: is your nick registered with freenode?
May 10 13:59:55 <Kraln> as long as you're identified with nickserv on freenode (are you?)
May 10 14:00:01 <muthu> my gmail : muthu.ramadoss@gmail.com
May 10 14:00:19 <muthu> Kraln: i gave up on that register thing
May 10 14:00:26 <muthu> it says some registered already and so on
May 10 14:01:03 <Kraln> muthu: are you logged into google's chat?
May 10 14:01:08 <muthu> yes
May 10 14:01:10 <Kraln> gtalk or whatever
May 10 14:01:11 <convivial> muthu: check to see when it was last used..
May 10 14:01:22 <Kraln> I'm tehkuja@gmail.com, send me =)
May 10 14:01:22 <muthu> Kraln: yeah add me
May 10 14:01:26 <muthu> ok
May 10 14:01:34 <convivial> muthu: if it has been idle for a year you can goto #freenode and request that nick for yourself!
May 10 14:02:02 <muthu> convivial: right, but for some reason i'm lazy about that whole register thing
May 10 14:02:22 <Kraln> muthu: authorize me? :-D
May 10 14:02:37 <muthu> done
May 10 14:03:15 <convivial> muthu: if I don't find work in the next couple of weeks can I join your team?
May 10 14:03:26 <muthu> sure
May 10 14:03:54 <muthu> we are planning phase 2 and that's definitely in the agenda
May 10 14:04:00 <convivial> :)
May 10 14:04:01 <convivial> great
May 10 14:04:13 <convivial> good opportunity for me to learn android api ?
May 10 14:04:28 <muthu> haha
May 10 14:05:01 <muthu> would love to have jasta on board
May 10 14:05:13 <muthu> and a few others if possible
May 10 14:05:22 <convivial> muthu: coolies :)
May 10 14:05:30 <convivial> can I start today?
May 10 14:05:31 <muthu> :)
May 10 14:05:42 <muthu> convivial: read up on the sdk
May 10 14:05:46 <muthu> ;)
May 10 14:06:05 <convivial> k
May 10 15:30:09 <fud> any activity here?
May 10 17:08:40 <mihoshi> So, when is ADC 2 deadline?
May 10 17:10:36 <muthu> jun 30
May 10 17:13:56 <mihoshi> muthu: That's ADC 1, part 2 deadline
May 10 17:36:27 <muthu> mihoshi: yes
May 10 17:36:32 <muthu> ADC starts in fall
May 10 17:58:22 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr are you around?
May 10 18:20:15 <ligi_> muthu: jun 30 iss ADC I Phase 2 not Adc II or am i wrong?
May 10 18:22:26 <muthu> ligi_: you are right
May 10 18:22:31 <muthu> ADC 2 starts later
May 10 18:24:06 <poffy_> Unannounced
May 10 18:33:14 <jasta> yawn
May 10 18:34:16 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta?
May 10 18:40:59 <michaelnovakjr> hey jasta?
May 10 18:41:47 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr you should get on halo and check out this map i made yesterday
May 10 18:41:57 <michaelnovakjr> are you on it now?
May 10 18:42:11 <Dougie187> yup
May 10 18:42:23 <michaelnovakjr> i'll come on in two seconds.
May 10 18:42:29 <Dougie187> ok
May 10 18:43:35 <michaelnovakjr> just firing back up my streaming music app for xbox360, so i can get my music on it
May 10 18:43:44 <Dougie187> heh
May 10 18:43:53 <Dougie187> im on the phone right now. so my mic wont be on
May 10 18:43:57 <michaelnovakjr> ok
May 10 19:07:43 <jasta> Dougie187: fine :)
May 10 19:07:55 <jasta> hey, i added a screenshot from my server component last night
May 10 19:07:58 <jasta> http://five.googlecode.com
May 10 19:08:15 <Dougie187> nice
May 10 19:10:08 <jasta> yeah, it's pretty sweet :)
May 10 19:12:57 <poffy> jasta, once I get an Android phone, I'l defintetly use your program
May 10 19:13:20 <jasta> you might get the opportunity to use it before that ;)
May 10 19:13:21 <Dougie187> as will I
May 10 19:13:28 <jasta> now that i lost, i am going to start work on the desktop client
May 10 19:13:51 <jasta> so you can listen to your music collection at work or wherever
May 10 19:14:02 <poffy> It'll be nice to stream my music to whereerver
May 10 19:14:52 <jasta> i'm trying to touch up the system as it is now though, so that i can release source
May 10 19:15:01 <jasta> i'd like to be able to let folks demo it here pretty soon
May 10 19:27:34 <jasta> man, it's been like a month since i've written Android :)
May 10 19:27:43 <convivial> sorry for nick changes was trying to teach someone how to use nickserv.
May 10 19:31:08 <tomgibara> Anyone have a clue about what happens if a winning app violates a patent?
May 10 19:34:59 <mihoshi> tomgibara: If winning app is disqualified for some reason, then next from top 100 will take place. I remember google saing that somewhere...
May 10 19:36:27 <tomgibara> mihoshi: I understood that to apply before publication of the winners
May 10 19:36:48 <mihoshi> Probably
May 10 19:37:13 <tomgibara> I'm not sure they could do the same thing afterwards
May 10 19:37:46 <tomgibara> For example, the patent holder might not choose to sue
May 10 19:38:18 <tomgibara> It all seems very murky to me.
May 10 23:23:40 <morrildl> I should change the topic but I can't think of anything to change it to
May 10 23:24:21 <Kraln> morrildl: "cry more"
May 10 23:25:01 * morrildl expects to get Twitter-flamed
May 10 23:27:46 <poffy> heh
May 10 23:27:57 <poffy> Kraln's suggestion is erfect
May 10 23:28:20 <poffy> perfect
May 10 23:34:47 <duey> "crying is only a temporary side effect"
May 10 23:39:45 <jerkface03> temporary side effect of what?
May 10 23:39:55 <jerkface03> getting kicked in the crotch
May 10 23:39:57 <jerkface03> ?
May 10 23:40:26 <jerkface03> morrildl: for adc2, can we keep working on our existing apps and resubmit them??? or does it have to be a brand new app?
May 10 23:40:37 <jerkface03> morrildl: also, will the judges be the same?
May 10 23:44:29 <morrildl> jerkface03: It's intended to be an improved version of your round 1 submission
May 10 23:44:36 <morrildl> jerkface03: no, the judges will be different
May 10 23:44:53 <duey> adc2
May 10 23:45:49 <jerkface03> morrildl: are you talking about phase2 of adc1? i'm talking about adc2.
May 11 01:13:20 <umdk1d3> hmm i guess phandroid is doing a list of the winners   http://phandroid.com/adc-round-1-winners
May 11 01:13:31 * umdk1d3 debates emailing them with my project
May 11 01:13:43 <umdk1d3> to add to their list and get more hits  :)
May 11 01:20:50 <duey> everyone should email them even if they did not win
May 11 01:20:55 <duey> it will be many lols
May 11 01:27:52 <umdk1d3> duey: the word your looking for would be "lulz"  ;)
May 11 01:28:03 <duey> hehe
May 11 01:28:35 <duey> im not fluet on the lolcat speak
May 11 01:29:54 <f00f-> lollerskates
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 11 02:59:56 2008