**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 15 02:59:56 2008
May 15 03:00:17 <trigatch4> yeah i think a lot of people probably undervalued the importance of UI's in Round 1... even based on subconscious value the judges put on them
May 15 03:04:02 <f00f-> i think our GUI is perhaps the ugliest most unpolished
May 15 03:09:09 <michaelnovakjr> my new apps are going to have a fresh polished gui
May 15 03:09:17 <michaelnovakjr> something friendly to use
May 15 03:09:45 <living_sword> but dont Open them !
May 15 03:09:59 <michaelnovakjr> Open?
May 15 03:10:22 <living_sword> provide the source
May 15 03:10:37 <michaelnovakjr> of course they will be open source ::P
May 15 03:11:21 <f00f-> i have to tip my hat off to Google for great PR
May 15 03:11:24 <f00f-> they really know how to use it
May 15 03:11:29 <f00f-> making a lot of people cry
May 15 03:11:50 <f00f-> and now they're gonna release rankings in one form  :P
May 15 03:11:55 <michaelnovakjr> ?
May 15 03:12:02 <f00f-> read the board
May 15 03:15:07 <michaelnovakjr> its unreal how much em-radar looks like my app
May 15 03:15:14 <michaelnovakjr> in terms of the listing
May 15 03:17:07 <f00f-> heh
May 15 03:17:12 <f00f-> closed-source ftw!
May 15 03:17:13 <f00f-> :D
May 15 03:18:28 <michaelnovakjr> screw him
May 15 03:18:36 <michaelnovakjr> i'm open source all the way
May 15 03:26:42 <living_sword> someone can upload that pdf to rapidshare or something, cant get it from google.
May 15 03:27:16 <trigatch4> f00f: release rankings how?
May 15 03:29:08 <trigatch4> living_sword: just upped it to my site for you... http://phandroid.com/round1.pdf
May 15 03:32:13 <living_sword_> trigatch4, thanks
May 15 03:40:18 <michaelnovakjr> i don't like diggin's interface
May 15 03:54:55 <living_sword_> except for one or two, rest is the same social crap
May 15 03:58:16 <living_sword_> i wonder how much multiple facets scored for the UI
May 15 04:07:55 <michaelnovakjr> i just can't believe how the first screenshot of Em-Radar resembles my app
May 15 04:08:08 <michaelnovakjr> i guess discussing my app in the irc was a bad idea :)
May 15 04:09:23 <jasta> nah, that dude has probably never even been here
May 15 04:09:40 <jasta> most of the winners didn't seem to be active in the community
May 15 04:10:46 <michaelnovakjr> oh hey
May 15 04:10:49 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: *poke*
May 15 04:10:51 <michaelnovakjr> got that stuff to work
May 15 04:10:54 <jasta> yeah?
May 15 04:11:01 <jasta> how was the experience?
May 15 04:11:14 <michaelnovakjr> yea it was some gij package that ubuntu installed with java that was screwing up the build system
May 15 04:11:22 <jasta> i mean, with my app in particular
May 15 04:11:27 <michaelnovakjr> awesome!
May 15 04:11:45 <jasta> thanks :)
May 15 04:12:00 <jasta> i caught a few really odd bugs last night that i'm not sure how i'm gonna fix with the inotify code
May 15 04:12:08 <michaelnovakjr> one sec
May 15 04:12:08 <jasta> so that part of the code may not "seem" to work at present
May 15 04:12:26 <jasta> though it really does, it's just two unusual cases when you move or delete with a shell that sends to the trash
May 15 04:14:00 <trigatch4> I was surprised how much "social crap" were in the Top 50, to be honest...
May 15 04:14:22 <jasta> you were?
May 15 04:14:27 <jasta> ...really? :)
May 15 04:14:43 <trigatch4> I know "social networking" is the big thing these days but I mean, cmon?
May 15 04:14:51 <jasta> that seemed to be all the rage.  what's so stupid though is that launching a successful social network is actually very tricky
May 15 04:15:03 <jasta> lots of variables that are hard to predict have to be just right.  you really gotta be sitting on the winning lotto ticket.
May 15 04:15:04 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
May 15 04:15:19 <michaelnovakjr> i actually want to go on record as saying diggin looks terrible
May 15 04:15:26 <trigatch4> and furthermore, too many social networks is counterproductive to the purpose of a social network...
May 15 04:15:28 <jasta> like Facebook and MySpace.  something undefinable just resonated with people
May 15 04:15:32 <jasta> so hard to capture that on purpose
May 15 04:15:48 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4 exactly
May 15 04:15:50 <f00f-> social is already flooded, too much going on
May 15 04:15:57 <trigatch4> exactly... it's hard to build the momentum of "I need to be a part of that or I'm missing out"
May 15 04:15:59 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i'm curious about the idea, but they need to expand on what they mean by "a new way"
May 15 04:16:15 <trigatch4> Plus... FaceBook gets an Android App and it's all over for everyone else haha
May 15 04:16:19 <michaelnovakjr> the interface is too busy
May 15 04:16:56 <trigatch4> I think the COOLEST ideas are the very NICHE ideas
May 15 04:16:56 <f00f-> trigatch4: yes, exactly.
May 15 04:17:04 <trigatch4> the Golf application...
May 15 04:17:07 <trigatch4> brilliant
May 15 04:17:23 <trigatch4> simple yet VERY useful and unparalleled
May 15 04:17:35 <trigatch4> to a a very niche, yet huge audience
May 15 04:18:05 <trigatch4> it's apps like that which will make android, i think
May 15 04:19:13 <f00f-> wtf
May 15 04:19:17 <trigatch4> ?
May 15 04:19:23 <f00f-> they didnt change the descriptiorn on my slide
May 15 04:19:30 <trigatch4> change it to what?
May 15 04:19:33 <f00f-> i guess it's for the app gallery
May 15 04:19:38 <f00f-> just reword it
May 15 04:19:45 <f00f-> nothing significant
May 15 04:19:52 <trigatch4> which is yours, f00f?
May 15 04:19:56 <f00f-> #30
May 15 04:21:06 <living_sword_> from the results i deduce that the only thing u can do on android is socialise or check the weather.
May 15 04:21:24 <trigatch4> hahahahha nice
May 15 04:21:38 <trigatch4> that's hilarious
May 15 04:21:43 <f00f-> hehe nice
May 15 04:21:55 <trigatch4> I'm pissed about this "application gallery"
May 15 04:21:57 <f00f-> TuneWiki's screens look very iPhone-ish... i like
May 15 04:22:03 <f00f-> trigatch4: it's not out yet
May 15 04:22:04 <trigatch4> I've been working on an application gallery of my own
May 15 04:22:05 <trigatch4> :(
May 15 04:22:27 <f00f-> man
May 15 04:22:33 <f00f-> i thought TeraDesk was gonna be some CAD thing
May 15 04:22:39 <f00f-> remindes me of AutoDesk
May 15 04:22:43 <f00f-> makers of AutoCAD
May 15 04:23:28 <trigatch4> Question: What would you estimate the level of programming difficulty of something like WifiArmy?
May 15 04:23:44 <trigatch4> Dififculty, Time investment, etc...
May 15 04:23:49 <f00f-> i still dont get what it is
May 15 04:23:57 <f00f-> just a game right
May 15 04:23:59 <trigatch4> Your android phone is like a laser tag gun
May 15 04:24:06 <trigatch4> and the world is the "boundaries"
May 15 04:24:31 <trigatch4> Does that explain it better?
May 15 04:24:41 <f00f-> sounds like a novel game :)
May 15 04:24:51 <living_sword_> wheres the time to play, in the day, u'll be at the office and i bet they havent put a night vision on it.
May 15 04:25:01 <trigatch4> ummm
May 15 04:25:08 <trigatch4> i don't think working people will be playing
May 15 04:25:13 <trigatch4> kids have phones these days, old man
May 15 04:25:15 <trigatch4> haha
May 15 04:25:28 <living_sword_> i thought kids went to skool
May 15 04:25:36 <f00f-> hi' skoo'
May 15 04:25:41 <jerkface03> schools for fools
May 15 04:25:45 <f00f-> fewls
May 15 04:25:48 <trigatch4> schoooooooools.... out... for... the summmer
May 15 04:25:51 <jerkface03> phd
May 15 04:25:53 <jerkface03> player hater degree
May 15 04:26:10 <f00f-> for shore
May 15 04:26:32 <trigatch4> seriously though... any idea on the difficulty level of that?
May 15 04:27:01 <f00f-> screenshots?
May 15 04:27:04 <trigatch4> basically of "shooting" someone and detecting a hit or miss
May 15 04:27:05 <f00f-> well a few hundred hours
May 15 04:27:09 <f00f-> no GUI
May 15 04:27:16 <f00f-> with the right expertise in image processing
May 15 04:27:37 <trigatch4> screenshots of what?
May 15 04:27:49 <jerkface03> what?
May 15 04:27:56 <f00f-> of wifi army, buddy
May 15 04:27:59 <jerkface03> trigatch4: are you just trying to do collision detection?
May 15 04:29:00 <trigatch4> they have an indepth website at http://wifiarmy.com
May 15 04:29:06 <f00f-> ok i saw the first page
May 15 04:29:13 <f00f-> not interested, to be really honest
May 15 04:29:14 <trigatch4> jerkface03: yes, collision detection
May 15 04:30:56 <trigatch4> ?
May 15 04:35:19 <trigatch4> and then there were none...
May 15 04:35:25 <f00f-> ok, next topic!
May 15 04:38:07 <trigatch4> sure, skip right past my collision detection
May 15 04:38:13 <trigatch4> ;) jk
May 15 04:38:33 <trigatch4> f00f nice app concept by the way
May 15 04:38:38 <trigatch4> do you live in an urban area?
May 15 04:39:53 <f00f-> trigatch4: heh, if you call san jose urban, sure :)
May 15 04:40:18 <f00f-> i'd say our app would be useful, especially in a downtown
May 15 04:40:27 <f00f-> well also depends *how* you use it
May 15 04:40:29 <trigatch4> yeah, agreed
May 15 04:42:10 <trigatch4> how meaning 1) get money from atm 2) stop by drug dealers house 3) txt friend to let him know we've "got the stuff" 4) drive to friend's 5) go to undisclosed location to make a drop 6) stop at bank to exchange our ATM $20s for $1s 7) go to strip club 8) contact taxi to drive us home
May 15 04:42:24 <trigatch4> something like that, right?
May 15 04:42:32 <trigatch4> hehe jk
May 15 04:43:13 <trigatch4> I live in downtown Baltimore so yeah, I can appreciate how it would be very useful
May 15 04:43:15 <f00f-> dude, you're on the ball
May 15 04:43:26 <f00f-> and if we have opening/closing times for all those
May 15 04:43:35 <f00f-> we can even optimize your DrugRoute(TM) :)
May 15 04:43:41 <trigatch4> haha nice
May 15 04:43:46 <f00f-> (that was a joke... for the record)
May 15 04:43:55 <f00f-> but technically, lots of possibilities exist
May 15 04:44:00 <f00f-> key is to make it simple enough to use
May 15 04:44:09 <muthu> and what about th planning after you get home ;)
May 15 04:44:24 <trigatch4> Yup, exactly. Simplicity I think will be the key to all these.
May 15 04:44:28 <f00f-> such as, travel itinerary to flee the country?
May 15 04:44:28 <f00f-> heh
May 15 04:44:33 <trigatch4> ha
May 15 04:46:08 <jasta> yawn
May 15 04:46:40 <trigatch4> I have about 10 android app ideas I think would do gang busters... my goal is to somehow get rich between now and the next ADC announcement so I can hire some programmers
May 15 04:46:56 <f00f-> they better not be LBS or social net :P
May 15 04:47:38 <trigatch4> actually... one of them would be kinda neat. I don't want to disclose too much but basically, no matter where you were, you could always get the 10 day weather forecast.
May 15 04:48:27 <f00f-> sounds like you could rig that up in 24 hours easily.
May 15 04:48:45 <f00f-> GPS LocationProvider, Weather web service, fancy UI.
May 15 04:48:47 <f00f-> done/done
May 15 04:49:13 <trigatch4> i was joking
May 15 04:49:22 <f00f-> clearly :D
May 15 04:49:34 <f00f-> still, i didnt see an SMS app
May 15 04:49:37 <f00f-> no one made it
May 15 04:49:44 <f00f-> now that is like a 72 hour job
May 15 04:49:47 <trigatch4> okay... i thought you thought i was a douche for a sec ha
May 15 04:49:53 <trigatch4> yeah thats prolly why
May 15 04:50:02 <trigatch4> google will just include stuff like that standard i think
May 15 04:50:18 <f00f-> well it better >= iPhone's SMS client
May 15 04:50:31 <trigatch4> i mean someone commented on they couldn't believe their calculator app didn't make the cut?
May 15 04:50:38 <f00f-> heh
May 15 04:50:56 <trigatch4> Texas Instruments is an OHA partner... I'm pretty sure they could rig up a pretty nice Android Calculator pretty darn easily
May 15 04:51:13 <f00f-> hahahahaha
May 15 04:51:58 <trigatch4> So unless your "calculator" does stuff like unique like the car calculator for horsepower/speed like the one that made the Top 50... leave the 1+1 to GOOG or an abacus
May 15 04:52:50 <f00f-> hehe
May 15 04:54:37 <trigatch4> so... I'm in the process of securing an interview with Rich Miner on Friday. Anyone have any questions/ideas they want me to ask?
May 15 04:55:01 <f00f-> who is that or why you interviewing with him?
May 15 04:55:41 <michaelnovakjr> never heard of him
May 15 04:58:27 <f00f-> ask him to wire us some money here, that's about it.
May 15 05:05:35 <trigatch4> never heard of him? really?
May 15 05:06:16 <trigatch4> He is Google's VP of Mobile Technology
May 15 05:09:14 <trigatch4> f00f: wire us some money? if i'm not mistaken you're $25k richer. I don't want to see you with your hands out!
May 15 05:09:33 <trigatch4> or is that why you're asking for the wire? ha
May 15 05:10:12 <f00f-> hahaha
May 15 05:10:17 <f00f-> well i want everyone in here to win something
May 15 05:10:25 <f00f-> ok trigatch4
May 15 05:10:27 <f00f-> ask him
May 15 05:10:42 <f00f-> what are they gonna do to keep the platform from being fragmented like Java ME
May 15 05:14:57 <trigatch4> k, written down
May 15 05:15:19 <f00f-> what else..hmm
May 15 05:15:56 <trigatch4> of course I'm going to pressure him about specific handsets, specific dates, etc... but I'm sure I'll get nothing of that nature
May 15 05:16:06 <trigatch4> "pressure" is a harsh word
May 15 05:16:19 <f00f-> well
May 15 05:16:25 <trigatch4> more like "guilt him into admitting"... pleaaaaaaaaaaaaase mr. miner pleaaaaaaaaaaase
May 15 05:17:15 <living_sword_> u can ask him if he visits the android forum
May 15 05:17:57 <trigatch4> you mean since he clearly isn't one of the 12 members?
May 15 05:20:11 <living_sword_> just to check if he's aware of the issues faced by developers
May 15 05:20:33 <living_sword_> especially the android-challenge forum
May 15 05:20:58 <f00f-> demand that all the non-top 50 guys get free android devices
May 15 05:21:05 <f00f-> of the 1788 - 50
May 15 05:22:06 <living_sword_> u can ask him what was his involvement in ADC
May 15 05:22:17 <living_sword_> like at what level.
May 15 05:22:37 <trigatch4> living_sword: since I'm not a developer, I must admit I'm a bit ignorant to those issues you mention. If you can broadly explain them I'd be happy to ask.
May 15 05:23:59 <trigatch4> f00f: I don't think demanding anything will get the type of reaction I'm hoping for. And if I were to demand something, it would be for the 1788 - 50 + 1(me). And then I would graciously sell one to each of you for an extremely discounted price. haha jk
May 15 05:24:24 <f00f-> just suggest it
May 15 05:24:28 <f00f-> convey the emotions
May 15 05:24:34 <f00f-> people are crying
May 15 05:24:40 <f00f-> actually you know what
May 15 05:24:42 <f00f-> no
May 15 05:24:42 <trigatch4> what
May 15 05:24:46 <f00f-> dont suggest that
May 15 05:24:52 <trigatch4> i won't, don't worry
May 15 05:24:52 <f00f-> people that cry or complain dont deserve it
May 15 05:25:05 <f00f-> only the persistent ones should be rewarded especially for android loyalty
May 15 05:25:10 <f00f-> such as those who entered but didnt place
May 15 05:25:17 <f00f-> IF they continue working on their app
May 15 05:25:22 <f00f-> that would be ultimate loyalty test
May 15 05:25:40 <f00f-> they could create a Forum Nokia-like program (kinda like S60 Ambassadors) but give free stuff to develoeprs who are active on the platform
May 15 05:25:49 <jasta> speaking of, i'm doing some touch-ups and edits to my app's demo video :)
May 15 05:25:49 <f00f-> that would really resonate with passionate Android devs
May 15 05:25:57 <living_sword_> trigatch, u know majority of developers feel the ADC has been unjust in picking the 50. and if he visits the forum , he would know that.
May 15 05:26:14 <Kraln> how do you speak for the majority of developers?
May 15 05:26:23 <Kraln> they chose what they thought people would want and would make their platform viable
May 15 05:26:27 <Kraln> you didn't have to compete
May 15 05:26:28 <Kraln> you knew the rules
May 15 05:26:34 <Kraln> stfu and accept that you are NOT AS GOOD as other people
May 15 05:26:40 <Kraln> wah wah I lost cry me a river and stfu
May 15 05:26:51 <living_sword_> wow
May 15 05:26:53 <jasta> while i understand where you're coming from, i think your basic argument needs some work :)
May 15 05:27:05 <trigatch4> yeah but he's a smart guy,  you know what he'll say regardless to that question. they did the best they good, it was hard to judge because all the apps were very good and competitive. unfortunately there has to be losers.
May 15 05:27:24 <trigatch4> If there were shortcomings in the first ADC we'll certainly take a look and try to improve future rounds and future challenges
May 15 05:27:29 <trigatch4> yada yada yada
May 15 05:27:45 <trigatch4> thats a soft question
May 15 05:28:10 <trigatch4> although I can ask about SPECIFIC shortcomings and see if he'll address SPECIFIC issues
May 15 05:28:21 <trigatch4> but will most likely get a generic response
May 15 05:28:29 <jasta> what are you talking about?
May 15 05:28:33 <jasta> who's "he"?
May 15 05:28:45 <living_sword_> well, my suggestion was to ask him if he visits the forum,
May 15 05:28:54 <f00f-> he wont, forget it
May 15 05:28:57 <jasta> who?
May 15 05:28:57 <f00f-> be realistic
May 15 05:29:09 <trigatch4> jasta: Rich Miner, Google VP of MobileTechnology
May 15 05:29:22 <jasta> are you interviewing him or something?
May 15 05:29:27 <trigatch4> yeah hopefully
May 15 05:29:30 <jasta> and yes, i agree with f00f, he probably has much better things to do.
May 15 05:29:30 <f00f-> top guys like that don't have time to look at that
May 15 05:29:34 <trigatch4> they're trying to set something up for Friday with me
May 15 05:29:38 <f00f-> they work with executive summaries (1 page or less)
May 15 05:29:50 <f00f-> trigatch4: i hope you ask him the tough, hard questions
May 15 05:29:51 <f00f-> make him sweat
May 15 05:29:53 <jasta> what is the topic of the interview?
May 15 05:30:00 <trigatch4> Android in general
May 15 05:30:09 <trigatch4> I'm trying to get some good questions as we speak
May 15 05:30:28 <jasta> hmm, well good luck
May 15 05:30:35 <trigatch4> thanks man
May 15 05:30:39 <trigatch4> should be a fun interview
May 15 05:31:06 <trigatch4> just want to make sure I';ve got some interesting questions that haven't been asked before... things that will shed some new light on android issues
May 15 05:31:24 <jasta> i don't see how you could ;)
May 15 05:32:25 <muthu> trigatch4: ask him how they are going to work with all of the mobile OEM's and carriers
May 15 05:33:59 <trigatch4> muthu: thats kind of broad do you think you could narrow it down a bit? i feel like the question isn't very direct and pointed, it is easy to dance around.
May 15 05:34:28 <trigatch4> by saying something like, "we'll work with each one to insure their needs are met within the android framework... etc..."
May 15 05:35:35 <living_sword_> ask him , apart from phones, what other devices might we see android on this year
May 15 05:38:32 <jasta> i want to see an in-dash car stereo with a GSM radio running my app on the Android stack :)
May 15 05:39:14 <jasta> or perhaps not.  just linux and the framebuffer, with all the driver goodness that we are going to as a result of Android
May 15 05:39:42 <jasta> i would actually pay an extra whatever, $40/mo for that privilege :)
May 15 05:41:02 <romainguy__> trigatch4: what's the context of your interview?
May 15 05:42:02 <trigatch4> what other devices besides phones... GREAT question
May 15 05:42:20 <trigatch4> romainguy__: no context... just android in general
May 15 05:42:43 <romainguy__> trigatch4: sure, but why are you interviewing Rich Miner? Is it just personal, or is it as a journalist, etc?
May 15 05:43:07 <trigatch4> As a journalist for http://phandroid.com
May 15 05:43:58 <trigatch4> Just try to get some interesting info straight from the horses mouth... uncover some things that may not have been talked about yet...
May 15 05:44:28 <trigatch4> I asked a LONG time ago to interview Jason Chen and they promised to set something up...
May 15 05:44:50 <trigatch4> Never heard back, e-mailed them again like "you dissed me" and they said, "how about Rich Miner on Friday"
May 15 05:45:22 <f00f-> jasonchen:
May 15 05:45:25 <f00f-> is in this chan buddy
May 15 05:45:35 <f00f-> just privmsg him
May 15 05:45:46 <f00f-> jasonchen: someone wants to interview you, whoever you are
May 15 05:45:55 <jasta> yeah, Jason Chen is just a dev advocate.
May 15 05:46:03 <jasta> shouldn't be hard to have a conversation with him
May 15 05:47:04 <trigatch4> *uses AndroidScan to scan barcode of "Detective Work for Dummies*
May 15 05:47:30 <trigatch4> whoops
May 15 05:47:45 <trigatch4> oh well... now I'll have 2 interviews hehe
May 15 05:48:00 <trigatch4> Miner is the guy that said "Android will outsell the iPhone"
May 15 05:48:09 <trigatch4> that in itself is reason enough for an interview
May 15 05:48:17 <jasta> well, he has to say that
May 15 05:48:29 <romainguy__> Android is not one product, it's a platform
May 15 05:48:43 <jasta> some windows mobile exec said recently they will have 40% of the cell phone market world-wide by 2010.  you know, it's just rhetoric ;)
May 15 05:49:17 <living_sword_> u could ask about Flash, is google working with adobe or is it completely left on adobe to pursue it.
May 15 05:50:02 <jasta> really, we don't need Flash on mobile devices.  what we need is popular sites creating alternate delivery vehicles for their content that don't rely on Flash
May 15 05:50:07 <jasta> like native mobile applications, for one.
May 15 05:50:54 <jasta> adobe has their head too far up their ass, and content providers are likely to figure that out way before adobe does.
May 15 05:51:03 <living_sword_> hehe
May 15 05:57:18 <f00f-> what does xpp.getAttributeValue(arg0, arg1) return and accept?
May 15 05:57:31 <f00f-> is it attribute name, default value?
May 15 05:59:44 <romainguy__> what is the xpp object?
May 15 05:59:51 <f00f-> XmlPullParser
May 15 06:01:01 <romainguy__> then that would be the namespace and the attribute name
May 15 06:01:15 <f00f-> ah ok nvm
May 15 06:01:24 <f00f-> so to get attributes, i just need to do a loop for each one
May 15 06:07:15 <f00f-> corona+lime ok time to code
May 15 06:13:11 <f00f-> romainguy__: can open like res/values/strings.xml from code?
May 15 06:13:18 <f00f-> i want to parse it using XPP
May 15 06:13:28 <dueynz> so
May 15 06:13:36 <dueynz> looks like ill be stopping my project :)
May 15 06:13:51 <f00f-> openNonAsset() or openXmlBlock() ?
May 15 06:14:07 <f00f-> why dueu
May 15 06:14:09 <jasta> dueynz: why?
May 15 06:14:31 <dueynz> ive decided mobile ain't for me
May 15 06:14:39 <dueynz> moving into the parasite world
May 15 06:15:05 <f00f-> sucks
May 15 06:15:11 <romainguy__> f00f-: why would you want to do this?
May 15 06:15:45 <f00f-> romainguy__: i want to define a part of my application's menu hierarchy in XML, so to have an XML file recognized and give an error in eclipse if it's malformed, it should be under res/ ?
May 15 06:16:03 <romainguy__> you can put it in asset/
May 15 06:16:06 <romainguy__> (or assets/)
May 15 06:16:19 <f00f-> it's in assets/ and has a .xml extension yet it doesnt give an error if it's malformed
May 15 06:16:20 <jasta> gah, i am way too self conscious to record a demo video :)
May 15 06:16:28 <jasta> i keep saying stupid things and stuttering
May 15 06:16:51 <dueynz> jasta, computer voice lol
May 15 06:17:10 <f00f-> cut the voice
May 15 06:17:12 <romainguy__> f00f-: note that in our current builds it is possible to define menus in XML :)
May 15 06:17:40 <f00f-> i mean the icons on my main screen (so using XML to define a simple state machine)
May 15 06:18:01 <f00f-> romainguy__: but that is cool, too... i gues i should make use of menus more than just for Help and Exit
May 15 06:19:04 <romainguy__> Exit?
May 15 06:19:07 <romainguy__> You have an Exit menu?
May 15 06:19:09 <romainguy__> Booo
May 15 06:19:57 <f00f-> sorry only on the main screen
May 15 06:20:01 <f00f-> since back button just sits there
May 15 06:20:07 <f00f-> we dont want the user to accidentally Back out and exit the app
May 15 06:20:09 <romainguy__> Still
May 15 06:20:13 <f00f-> sinceback button is used to navigate the hierarchy
May 15 06:20:18 <f00f-> how should itbe done?
May 15 06:20:25 <romainguy__> The Android philosophy is to not have an exit/quit menu
May 15 06:20:28 <f00f-> (that is, to go up a level in the hierarchy)
May 15 06:20:40 <romainguy__> and preferably let back do that
May 15 06:20:56 <f00f-> in this case, Back could be bad for usability, imho
May 15 06:21:02 <romainguy__> why?
May 15 06:21:03 <f00f-> or maybe we should use back, but confirm the exit?
May 15 06:21:07 <romainguy__> why your application in particular?
May 15 06:21:08 <romainguy__> no
May 15 06:21:13 <romainguy__> back doesn't exit applications in Android
May 15 06:21:16 <romainguy__> it just goes back
May 15 06:21:16 <f00f-> cause back is used for navigation
May 15 06:21:30 <romainguy__> then it's fine
May 15 06:21:43 <romainguy__> I know I'd be really pissed to use an Android app which would change the behavior of the back button
May 15 06:21:44 <f00f-> but when you reach the top-level of the app (the main screen), what should back do?
May 15 06:21:53 <romainguy__> you let back do whatever it does
May 15 06:22:01 <romainguy__> that is go back to what the user was doing before your activity
May 15 06:22:06 <f00f-> well i just disabled it for now, just in case the user accidentally presses back one too many times
May 15 06:22:17 <romainguy__> that's ok
May 15 06:22:25 <romainguy__> he jut has to click your app icon again
May 15 06:22:29 <romainguy__> since the app is not killed
May 15 06:23:19 <f00f-> ok so i should just hide it... basically call super
May 15 06:23:34 <romainguy__> yep
May 15 06:23:37 <romainguy__> just use the default behavior
May 15 06:24:05 <f00f-> so is it safe to assume that this will go back to a screen with an icon for the app?
May 15 06:24:10 <f00f-> or a way to get to it with one click
May 15 06:24:18 <romainguy__> if your app was launched from the home screen yes
May 15 06:24:28 <romainguy__> but if your app was invoked from another app, it will go back to this other app
May 15 06:24:35 <f00f-> ok, that's fine
May 15 06:24:35 <romainguy__> (which is exactly what you want actually)
May 15 06:24:46 <f00f-> ok i will make this change now, thx
May 15 06:25:01 <romainguy__> No pb :))
May 15 06:25:27 <romainguy__> Sorry to insist on that, but since I've been using android 10 hours a day for the past 12 months, there are some things I kinda take for granted in apps ;-))
May 15 06:26:16 <f00f-> the fastest way to get back to the top level in my app is tpo hit the Back button a million times :P
May 15 06:27:04 <f00f-> i really need to fix application lifecycle issues in my app
May 15 06:27:18 <f00f-> should obey those guidelines!
May 15 07:46:14 <vetch> Please vote: Donate and Setup Android DotPhone NotWinner Fund on Android Challenge forum
May 15 07:46:52 <vetch> Please vote for me so I can get prize of hardware
May 15 08:16:39 <cutmasta> morning all
May 15 09:48:52 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 15 09:49:56 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 15 09:52:09 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 15 12:54:03 <Dougie187> good morning everyone
May 15 12:54:12 <muthu> Dougie187: mornin
May 15 12:54:20 <Dougie187> how are you muthu?
May 15 12:54:40 <muthu> i'm ok
May 15 12:54:47 <Dougie187> cool
May 15 12:54:56 <muthu> you know its one of those days
May 15 12:55:01 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 12:55:02 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 12:55:12 <Dougie187> you excited to get your prize money?
May 15 12:55:38 <muthu> i'll be excited when we actually deliver them on gphones :)
May 15 12:56:04 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 12:56:24 <muthu> have you looked at the winners slideshow?
May 15 13:00:38 <Dougie187> no
May 15 13:00:41 <Dougie187> i didnt know there was one
May 15 13:01:00 <muthu> its in the android website
May 15 13:01:25 <Dougie187> yeah i found it.
May 15 13:01:27 <Dougie187> thats cool
May 15 13:04:40 <Dougie187> man, some of these are totally dumb
May 15 13:04:46 <muthu> which ones?
May 15 13:05:49 <Dougie187> i think breadcrumbs is kinda usless
May 15 13:05:51 <Dougie187> useless
May 15 13:05:59 <Dougie187> and beetaun
May 15 13:06:15 <muthu> i donno
May 15 13:06:15 <Dougie187> i dont see the point in the iris scanning one, but i guess it could be cool.
May 15 13:06:42 <muthu> bio wallet is a nice app
May 15 13:07:09 <Dougie187> yeah, but whats the point?
May 15 13:07:39 <muthu> so you can control who sees what
May 15 13:07:47 <Dougie187> are you going to scan your iris to check your email?
May 15 13:07:59 <Kraln> muthu: the reason your vm was messed up: you got hacked
May 15 13:08:01 <Dougie187> i thought of it like a keyring.
May 15 13:08:14 <muthu> Kraln: really, bummer!
May 15 13:08:23 <Kraln> did you disable root login? =/
May 15 13:08:50 <Dougie187> i am disappointed by the number of social networking apps
May 15 13:08:56 <muthu> Kraln: guess so, my sysadmin did that
May 15 13:09:44 <muthu> he's a learner though
May 15 13:10:05 <muthu> Dougie187: yeah, mostly lbs backed apps
May 15 13:10:23 <Dougie187> some just seem completely useless.
May 15 13:10:41 <Dougie187> like, i cant imagine the number of people who would use it to be more then ~100
May 15 13:10:49 <Dougie187> and even they wouldnt use it for that long.
May 15 13:11:04 <Dougie187> i mean of them are great ideas.
May 15 13:11:08 <Dougie187> like i really like the barcode one.
May 15 13:11:11 <Dougie187> i think thats a cool idea.
May 15 13:11:17 <Dougie187> and i like your cooking one.
May 15 13:11:24 <Dougie187> because i wont need my laptop in my kitchen.
May 15 13:11:24 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 13:11:28 <muthu> haha
May 15 13:11:31 <Dougie187> and i can use my phone as a shopping list.
May 15 13:11:39 <Dougie187> ohh
May 15 13:11:43 <Dougie187> thats a feature you should add.
May 15 13:11:43 <muthu> yeah
May 15 13:11:48 <Dougie187> i dont know if you have it or not.
May 15 13:11:56 <Dougie187> but can you make your own shopping list in it?
May 15 13:11:59 <Kraln> muthu: I still haven't heard from mary-ann
May 15 13:12:07 <muthu> Kraln: i did my job
May 15 13:12:11 <muthu> she needs to decide
May 15 13:12:23 <Kraln> muthu: she hasn't even contacted me, is my meaning
May 15 13:12:28 <Dougie187> man, there are repeats of apps too
May 15 13:12:31 <Dougie187> thats freaking stupid.
May 15 13:12:41 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
May 15 13:12:43 <muthu> Kraln: i've send her some 20 profiles
May 15 13:12:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> diggin is ugly
May 15 13:13:02 <Kraln> muthu: that's too bad for me, i guess
May 15 13:13:19 <muthu> Kraln: honestly, she owns the whole thing
May 15 13:13:25 <Dougie187> they have two barcode scanning apps.
May 15 13:13:31 <Dougie187> two weather monitor apps
May 15 13:13:32 <Kraln> anyway, what do you want to do about your hacked vps
May 15 13:13:37 <ligi> namaskar muthu
May 15 13:13:45 <muthu> ligi: halo
May 15 13:13:47 <ligi> and hello to all the others here
May 15 13:13:50 <muthu> Kraln: set it straight man
May 15 13:14:06 <muthu> Kraln: and send some instructions to my sysadmin, on how to prevent these in future
May 15 13:14:13 <Kraln> I can't set it straight
May 15 13:14:15 <Dougie187> i think the free family watch is kinda cool too
May 15 13:14:16 <Kraln> I sent you an email
May 15 13:14:23 <Kraln> the vz is going to be destroyed
May 15 13:14:28 <Kraln> if there's any data files you need, let me know
May 15 13:14:34 <muthu> oh ok
May 15 13:14:53 <muthu> shit, hope he learns from this
May 15 13:14:57 <muthu> i'll have a word with him
May 15 13:15:04 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr how are you liking the winning apps?
May 15 13:15:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> not really liking them at al
May 15 13:15:22 <michaelnovakjr_1> diggin looks like crap
May 15 13:16:12 <Dougie187> what does it do?
May 15 13:16:18 <muthu> a lot of the winning apps are pretty simple
May 15 13:16:45 <Dougie187> i am just disappointed by the shear number of social networking apps and the number of repeat ideas in the winning 50
May 15 13:17:10 <Dougie187> they could have cut a lot of those out and put new ideas that would be indispensable to users.
May 15 13:17:23 <Dougie187> maybe add really cool new features to the phone people hadn't thought about
May 15 13:17:35 <Dougie187> but now, they have like 3 choices for getting their weather on their phone
May 15 13:17:55 <muthu> yeah, there are 3 weather apps
May 15 13:17:57 <Dougie187> two ways of checking prices by barcodes.
May 15 13:18:29 <Dougie187> did duey win?
May 15 13:19:08 <muthu> duey did not win
May 15 13:19:15 <Dougie187> see. his app would be really useful.
May 15 13:19:23 <Dougie187> and it would have been an awesome feature to have on a phone.
May 15 13:19:41 <Dougie187> they could have dumped one of the weather apps or one of the billion social networking apps and put his in there.
May 15 13:19:58 <Dougie187> locale seems cool too. but i think thats a feature most phone os's come with nowadays
May 15 13:20:47 <Dougie187> someone should make a bluetooth network app
May 15 13:20:54 <Dougie187> that links phones together with bluetooth.
May 15 13:21:00 <Dougie187> and lets you talk to each other.
May 15 13:21:14 <muthu> someone actually did
May 15 13:21:21 <muthu> guess fluidnexus
May 15 13:21:53 <Dougie187> thats cool.
May 15 13:22:23 <Dougie187> i wonder if you could allow a phone to use your phone as a bridge to make calls.
May 15 13:22:38 <muthu> haha
May 15 13:22:44 <muthu> so you get billed!
May 15 13:22:56 <Dougie187> well no, but like if your camping on a weekend for instance.
May 15 13:23:03 <Dougie187> and verizon gets coverage but Att doesnt.
May 15 13:23:15 <Dougie187> and the verizon person has free nights and weekends.
May 15 13:23:27 <muthu> right
May 15 13:23:29 <Dougie187> then they can allow people to "tether" their phones to his phone, and make calls through his line.
May 15 13:23:33 <muthu> would be useful in emergency etc.,
May 15 13:23:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> i am writing an awesome rss reader
May 15 13:23:44 <Dougie187> granted only one person would be able to do it at a time.
May 15 13:24:09 <Dougie187> for android michaelnovakjr?
May 15 13:24:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> yes
May 15 13:24:28 <Dougie187> cool
May 15 13:24:42 <michaelnovakjr_1> it syncs up your feeds with feedburner
May 15 13:25:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> so you don't have to re-enter them on your phone, and you can also manage them from either a computer or your phone
May 15 13:25:08 <michaelnovakjr_1> its almost done
May 15 13:25:18 <muthu> a feed reader would be cool
May 15 13:25:28 <Dougie187> nice.
May 15 13:25:36 <Dougie187> just some of these apps are completely useless.
May 15 13:25:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, a feed reader with Feedburner!!
May 15 13:25:51 <Dougie187> it just astounds me how they made it to the top 50.
May 15 13:25:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> it is aptly named ... FeedMe
May 15 13:26:02 <muthu> nice name
May 15 13:26:05 <Dougie187> they are completely dispensible.
May 15 13:26:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> Dougie187, i totally agree
May 15 13:26:43 <Dougie187> i can image a good portion of these apps getting a max of 30 points for the judging.
May 15 13:26:57 <Dougie187> and there are so many repeats.
May 15 13:28:53 <Dougie187> omg... social network... social network... social network.
May 15 13:29:36 <Dougie187> i think about 10% of these have useful ideas and features.
May 15 13:30:02 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea, i was disappointed... i expected mor
May 15 13:30:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> e
May 15 13:30:23 <Dougie187> i know.
May 15 13:30:37 <Dougie187> and all of these apps are competing ideas.
May 15 13:30:39 <Dougie187> well
May 15 13:30:41 <Dougie187> a lot of them are.
May 15 13:30:46 <Dougie187> few of them are completely unique.
May 15 13:31:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'm just glad android is open source
May 15 13:31:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> and that i can write my own version of software to make up for this utter crap
May 15 13:31:52 <volmarias> Ok, has anyone actually used android positron?
May 15 13:31:54 <muthu> its amazing how quickly apps can be build on android
May 15 13:32:03 <volmarias> I'm having some trouble just getting it to work
May 15 13:32:25 <volmarias> either their documentation is inaccurate, or I'm missing something huge here
May 15 13:32:40 <Dougie187> muthu, how did you feel about the top 50 apps?
May 15 13:32:43 <Dougie187> aside from your app.
May 15 13:32:45 <volmarias> To run your test suite, call adb shell "/system/bin/am instrument -w bolt.client/.Positron". Here, as will the previous examples, replace "bolt.client" with the name of your own package, and ".Positron" with the name of your positron subclass. Don't forget the leading period!
May 15 13:33:02 <volmarias> Which I did, except that it gives me an INSTRUMENTATION_FAILED error :\
May 15 13:33:39 <muthu> Dougie187: we have nice apps in top 50.. isn't it?
May 15 13:33:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> no
May 15 13:34:15 <Dougie187> im with michaelnovakjr.
May 15 13:34:21 <Dougie187> well
May 15 13:34:24 <Dougie187> i guess there are some nice apps.
May 15 13:34:31 <Dougie187> but over all im disappointed by them.
May 15 13:34:41 <muthu> bound to happen
May 15 13:34:43 <muthu> in all challenge
May 15 13:34:54 <Dougie187> i think the judges could have picked a lot more unique and indispensible ideas.
May 15 13:35:06 <volmarias> sigh. No contact information, either.
May 15 13:35:12 <Dougie187> rather than a lot of repeating ideas and social networking apps.
May 15 13:35:12 <volmarias> I have no idea how to go about getting help :\
May 15 13:35:13 <muthu> judges had their criteria, so they went with it
May 15 13:35:17 <Dougie187> sorry volmarias.
May 15 13:35:41 <Dougie187> anyways. hey muthu.
May 15 13:35:46 <Dougie187> i dont know if you had this implemented.
May 15 13:35:51 <Dougie187> but an idea i had for your app.
May 15 13:35:55 <muthu> tell me
May 15 13:35:57 <Dougie187> since you have the "shop" thing.
May 15 13:36:08 <Dougie187> that gives you a shopping list right?
May 15 13:36:38 <Dougie187> first can you select multiple recipes and get a single shopping list that incorporates all of the recipes?
May 15 13:37:37 <Dougie187> ...
May 15 13:38:21 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr. my laptop should get fixed today
May 15 13:38:28 <Dougie187> and possibly shipped back to me.
May 15 13:39:03 <volmarias> argh.
May 15 13:40:40 <muthu> what's the idea?
May 15 13:40:55 <muthu> Dougie187: ?
May 15 13:40:57 <muthu> too much of suspense there....
May 15 13:41:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> wow Dougie187, finally!
May 15 13:41:57 <muthu> Dougie187: good idea
May 15 13:42:06 <volmarias> So, does anyone have any experience with Instrumentation?
May 15 13:42:11 <tomgibara> I'm reading through the deck of winners.
May 15 13:42:18 <tomgibara> Does anyone have a clear idea of what "City Slikkers" actually involves?
May 15 13:43:30 <muthu> tomgibara: its a game based on real geo locations?
May 15 13:45:16 <tomgibara> It says it "changes the way surroundings are seen"
May 15 13:45:30 <volmarias> Nevermind, I suck, I forgot to push the new version of my code before attempting to run positron :P
May 15 13:45:46 <tomgibara> so is that an AR LBS entry?
May 15 13:46:07 <muthu> tomgibara: the screenshots are not giving much info
May 15 13:46:44 <tomgibara> muthu: no, and the web page didn't make much sense to me either
May 15 13:47:09 <muthu> tomgibara:  guess the idea was innovative
May 15 13:47:43 <muthu> tomgibara: what's happening with moseycode?
May 15 13:48:18 <tomgibara> muthu: I'm just about to release another version - am currently doing more documentation
May 15 13:48:36 <tomgibara> muthu: it supports the scanning of a wide range of existing barcode formats now
May 15 13:48:38 <muthu> tomgibara: cool, i've send your info to mary ann
May 15 13:49:20 <muthu> did she chat with you?
May 15 13:49:55 <tomgibara> muthu: not yet - should I be expecting an email?
May 15 13:50:07 <muthu> ok, i'll check
May 15 14:16:29 <volmarias> argh, other problems with getting positron to work.
May 15 14:18:11 <muthu> volmarias: what are they?
May 15 14:58:17 <Dougie187> hey sorry guys. my sysadmins are having network issues
May 15 14:59:46 <Dougie187> muthu you here still?
May 15 14:59:54 <muthu> yeah
May 15 15:00:42 <jasta> yawn
May 15 15:00:50 <muthu> ssup jasta
May 15 15:00:57 <Dougie187> did you get my idea earlier muthu?
May 15 15:01:07 <muthu> Dougie187: yes, that's a great idea
May 15 15:01:28 <Dougie187> i was also going to say.
May 15 15:01:38 <Dougie187> you should add the ability to add random items to your shopping list.
May 15 15:01:49 <Dougie187> that are not relevant to your recipes.
May 15 15:02:15 <muthu> yes, you can
May 15 15:03:02 <Dougie187> ok
May 15 15:03:41 <Dougie187> you should see if you could incorporate the bar code scanning thing too.
May 15 15:03:55 <Dougie187> then you can scan something at home and have it get added to your shopping list.
May 15 15:04:00 <muthu> why?
May 15 15:04:08 <Dougie187> or scan something and have it get removed.
May 15 15:04:20 <muthu> brb.. dinner time
May 15 15:04:22 <Dougie187> it would be quicker then typing in the names and stuff.
May 15 15:04:22 <Dougie187> ok
May 15 15:04:30 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta?
May 15 15:07:13 <jasta> fine
May 15 15:09:29 <volmarias> muthu: creating a test and trying to run it involves an exception being thrown
May 15 15:09:36 <volmarias> I can run an empty test suite just fine!
May 15 15:09:43 <volmarias> but add a testcase to it, oh shit, that's a problem right there.
May 15 15:09:57 <volmarias> I'm going to try following the tutorial on http://dtmilano.blogspot.com/2008/01/test-driven-development-and-gui-testing.html]
May 15 15:10:01 <volmarias> http://dtmilano.blogspot.com/2008/01/test-driven-development-and-gui-testing.html
May 15 15:10:09 <volmarias> see if I can get that working
May 15 15:17:14 <cutmasta> wtf
May 15 15:17:23 <cutmasta> 700 visitors on my page
May 15 15:17:42 * cutmasta must get a new coffee
May 15 15:18:17 <tmccrary> So, anything new on the hardware front?
May 15 15:18:24 <tmccrary> Any dev hardware available or anything?
May 15 15:18:33 <jasta> tmccrary: no, and we are not expecting there to be
May 15 15:18:40 <jasta> so neither should you :)
May 15 15:18:58 <tmccrary> Why not?
May 15 15:19:03 <cutmasta> tmccrary, i read in the google blog
May 15 15:19:12 <cutmasta> 3rd quarter of 08
May 15 15:19:22 <jasta> tmccrary: Well, do you have reason to suspect there will be dev hardware available?
May 15 15:19:29 <cutmasta> they should speed up things because of 2nd generation of iphone
May 15 15:19:33 <tmccrary> Well it would be a logical step
May 15 15:19:41 <tmccrary> I can't really do anything with android until the hardware comes out
May 15 15:19:47 <jasta> cutmasta: you can't just "speed up" sometimes.
May 15 15:19:48 <tmccrary> the emulator is flakey and slow
May 15 15:19:53 <jasta> tmccrary: Then you sit there and wait.
May 15 15:19:57 <cutmasta> jasta, i know
May 15 15:20:02 <cutmasta> but would be good
May 15 15:20:16 <cutmasta> to have a competitor against iphone early enough on the market
May 15 15:20:31 <tmccrary> yeah, I mean even a  developer unit would be fantastic
May 15 15:20:39 <tmccrary> doesn't have to have proper cell phone support either
May 15 15:20:50 <tmccrary> just a "fake" implementation of it or something
May 15 15:21:16 <jasta> tmccrary: Right, but we have no reason to suspect that will happen, despite how good of an idea you think it is.
May 15 15:21:47 <tmccrary> Uhh, yeah I didn't say "I have a feeling it will happen" just that it would be great
May 15 15:21:57 <tmccrary> You gotta lay off the coffee my friend
May 15 15:22:07 <jasta> Actually, I said we are not expecting it, and neither should you, but you asked why.
May 15 15:22:31 <tmccrary> You mean I shouldn't expect google to do things other sensible companies do in the same market?
May 15 15:22:40 <tmccrary> That's a pretty mean thing to say about google
May 15 15:23:04 <tmccrary> And who exactly is "we"
May 15 15:23:07 <jasta> tmccrary: Again, your opinion, however agreeable, does not affect the outcome.
May 15 15:23:25 <tmccrary> Who else are you speaking for?
May 15 15:23:30 <tmccrary> The "we" people
May 15 15:23:35 <jasta> The OHA has committed to 2nd half of '08 for commercial launch and has not one indicated that they would be early, or would have dev handsets.
May 15 15:23:49 <jasta> Your acceptance of that fact is irrelevant.
May 15 15:24:27 <tmccrary> Ok champ, but "commerical launch" is not the same as "prelaunch developer hardware"
May 15 15:24:42 <tmccrary> Again, who is "we"?
May 15 15:25:04 <jasta> The folks that are keeping up on official news released by Google regarding Android.
May 15 15:25:13 <jasta> i.e., most of the regulars in this channel.
May 15 15:25:16 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:25:18 <jasta> and in this community.
May 15 15:25:20 <Dougie187> i would count myself in we
May 15 15:25:25 <Dougie187> champ
May 15 15:25:53 <jasta> tmccrary: Like I said, they have also not indicated that there would be dev handsets.  Ever.
May 15 15:26:05 <jasta> So assuming that they have an ace in the hole is probably going to set you up for disappointment.
May 15 15:26:24 <tmccrary> You are a douche, seriously. I asked a simple question and you have managed to piss me off.
May 15 15:26:37 <tmccrary> I fear for those who have to live around you
May 15 15:26:49 <jasta> Please keep a civil tongue.
May 15 15:27:15 <tmccrary> Whew
May 15 15:27:20 <tmccrary> Good thing for that ignore list
May 15 15:27:31 <Dougie187> i dont see why he made you so mad.
May 15 15:27:35 <Dougie187> he was answering your question.
May 15 15:27:40 <tmccrary> Whew
May 15 15:27:44 <tmccrary> Good thing for that ignore list
May 15 15:28:01 <Dougie187> If you want information about dev handsets talk to plusminus.
May 15 15:28:07 <Dougie187> i do know he recently received something.
May 15 15:28:08 <Dougie187> i dont know how.
May 15 15:28:11 <Dougie187> but he does have something
May 15 15:28:29 <jasta> Dougie187: Are you sure he didn't just hack one together from the android-internals list?
May 15 15:28:29 <Dougie187> granted, i think he just ignored me so he doesnt know what i just said.
May 15 15:28:38 <Dougie187> he said he had it sent to him.
May 15 15:28:44 <jasta> from Google?
May 15 15:28:52 <Dougie187> he didnt say from who
May 15 15:28:57 <Dougie187> maybe ti?
May 15 15:29:00 <Dougie187> but its a beast.
May 15 15:29:08 <Dougie187> that thing is just about the ugliest thing in the whole world.
May 15 15:29:10 <jasta> i would be appalled if one of the OHA members sent him specifically a handset.
May 15 15:29:12 <Dougie187> and it didnt come with android on it
May 15 15:29:22 <jasta> oh, well then who cares? :)
May 15 15:29:28 <Dougie187> i wouldnt quite call it a handset..
May 15 15:29:28 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:29:32 <Dougie187> it looks more like a brick.
May 15 15:29:40 <Dougie187> do you know his site?
May 15 15:29:41 <jasta> just about anyone could buy a reference board and put android on it
May 15 15:29:45 <jasta> anddev.org?
May 15 15:29:48 <Dougie187> he posted a link to it a while ago.
May 15 15:30:11 <Dougie187> is that his?
May 15 15:30:22 <jasta> yeah
May 15 15:30:25 <tmccrary> Fantastic, there IS developer hardware
May 15 15:30:52 <Dougie187> Whew
May 15 15:30:55 <jasta> hehe
May 15 15:31:02 <Dougie187> thank god for that ignore list
May 15 15:32:09 <Dougie187> i dont know why he has to be such a jerk.
May 15 15:32:57 <jasta> meh
May 15 15:33:12 <Dougie187> i bet plusminus probably made the thing.
May 15 15:33:21 <Dougie187> or ordered a dev handset and is putting android on it
May 15 15:33:28 <Dougie187> so its probably not "OHA" Dev hardware
May 15 15:33:38 <michaelnovakjr_1> of course not :)
May 15 15:33:49 <Dougie187> probably just dev hardware he choose to put android on.
May 15 15:34:38 <jasta> right, of course you can put Android on existing hardware
May 15 15:34:43 <jasta> if you do it all yourself :)
May 15 15:34:51 <Dougie187> heh yeah
May 15 15:34:57 <jasta> and to my knowledge, none of it works right.
May 15 15:35:03 <Dougie187> which he has threads in his forums dedicated to that.
May 15 15:35:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> and live with the fact its not supported, so when you fuck it up you can't cry to anyone
May 15 15:35:10 <jasta> some have no network drivers, some have no touch screen, yada yada
May 15 15:35:20 <Dougie187> yeah.
May 15 15:35:44 <jasta> afaik, none of them have an accelerometer
May 15 15:35:44 <jasta> or bluetooth working
May 15 15:36:10 <Dougie187> i dont know.
May 15 15:36:20 <Dougie187> im not big into the "black market" of cell developer hardware
May 15 15:37:18 <mazzen> i heard that at the end of this year, cellphone with android will be on the market. so android must be released in the next month, or?
May 15 15:37:52 <Dougie187> i heard that as well mazzen.
May 15 15:37:58 <jasta> mazzen: the OHA has officially said 2nd half of '08, which ends in late December.
May 15 15:38:00 <Dougie187> i dont know that your conclusion is true.
May 15 15:38:27 <jasta> so if they don't have handsets by the end of December, then they are late on their promise.  Otherwise, not :)
May 15 15:38:33 <mazzen> hehe
May 15 15:38:48 <jasta> my bet is they will go as close to the end of 08 as they possibly can ;)
May 15 15:38:56 <jasta> without generating bad press, that is
May 15 15:38:56 <michaelnovakjr_1> mazzen, why in the next month??
May 15 15:39:00 <jasta> that's probably November or so
May 15 15:39:20 <mazzen> huh, sry michaelnovakjr i wanted to say month*s*
May 15 15:39:22 <mazzen> :)
May 15 15:39:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> android won't be released until its ready for handsets
May 15 15:39:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> what's the point in releasing something that can't be used?
May 15 15:39:55 <Dougie187> but they can also develop a handset without the "release" version of android.
May 15 15:40:02 <michaelnovakjr_1> yes
May 15 15:40:04 <tmccrary> It runs on already existing hardware. I already have an android capable device :) :) :)
May 15 15:40:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'm sure google is providing pre-release builds to manufacturers
May 15 15:40:26 <mazzen> tmccrary: did you compile android for the device yourself?
May 15 15:40:33 <Dougie187> so i was just saying that his conclusion isnt really true.
May 15 15:40:33 <tmccrary> I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier
May 15 15:40:38 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:41:06 <Dougie187> me either.
May 15 15:41:26 <jasta> mazzen: You cannot compile Android for there is no source.
May 15 15:41:48 <tmccrary> I am following a howto: http://code.google.com/p/android-on-n8xx/wiki/Home
May 15 15:42:28 <tmccrary> http://code.google.com/p/android-on-n8xx/wiki/Screenshots
May 15 15:42:31 <michaelnovakjr_1> compiling is the act of building source code
May 15 15:42:41 <michaelnovakjr_1> without source code there's nothing to compile :)
May 15 15:42:55 <tmccrary> My god
May 15 15:43:03 <tmccrary> this channel is filled with pedantic douche bags
May 15 15:43:07 <michaelnovakjr_1> ?
May 15 15:43:26 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:43:29 <Dougie187> i believe there is only one.
May 15 15:43:37 <Dougie187> and his name starts with a t and ends with a  y
May 15 15:43:47 <michaelnovakjr_1> dude, you are trying to work with unsupported technology
May 15 15:43:58 <Dougie187> he doesnt understand what people are saying
May 15 15:44:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> doesn't have a clue
May 15 15:44:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> i don't see what is wrong with the emulator
May 15 15:44:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> it works?
May 15 15:44:19 <mazzen> jasta: the kernel is available at git.android.com
May 15 15:44:32 <tmccrary> For my purposes, the emulator is too slow and crash prone
May 15 15:44:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> that is just the kernel
May 15 15:44:34 <mazzen> tmccrary: thanks for that hint.
May 15 15:45:04 <tmccrary> Its fine for most simple apps though
May 15 15:45:05 <mazzen> tmccrary: is your device a nokia?
May 15 15:45:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> tmccrary, if the emulator is too slow you are probably doing something wrong
May 15 15:45:11 <tmccrary> yeah, n810
May 15 15:45:31 <tmccrary> michaelnovakjr_1: No, I am not doing anything wrong I assure you
May 15 15:45:51 <jasta> mazzen: yeah, but there is a lot more code beyond the kernel that has no source.
May 15 15:45:56 <tmccrary> The emulator does not handle lots of complicated matrix transforms, vector calculations, etc
May 15 15:46:01 <michaelnovakjr_1> i haven't heard any complaints of a slow emulator.... and i have seen some intensive apps
May 15 15:46:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> ??
May 15 15:46:32 <tmccrary> If I explained it to you, you wouldn't understand.
May 15 15:46:41 <tmccrary> I'm not working on some silly little text chat applications :)
May 15 15:46:42 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:46:44 <michaelnovakjr_1> i dont think you understand
May 15 15:46:58 <mazzen> jasta: if i understand it correctly, you can use the current filesystem from the sdk for the missing part. i hope that is right
May 15 15:46:59 <mazzen> ?
May 15 15:47:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> regardless the sdk is the sdk
May 15 15:47:16 <michaelnovakjr_1> whether its run on an emulator or device you are still working with the same sdk interface
May 15 15:47:28 <tmccrary> Listen chap, I understand all that
May 15 15:47:32 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:47:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
May 15 15:47:38 <Dougie187> he loves to talk down to people.
May 15 15:47:40 <michaelnovakjr_1> ^^ is this guy for real?
May 15 15:47:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> dude, are you 12?
May 15 15:48:09 <tmccrary> Like I said, you would have a tough time understanding what I'm doing
May 15 15:48:09 <Dougie187> i dont know that 12 year olds call people champ.
May 15 15:48:19 <Dougie187> its people who think everyone else is wrong.
May 15 15:48:22 <Dougie187> he is just an arrogant prick.
May 15 15:48:25 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd love to know what is sooooo complicated it can't run in an emulator..... certainly not something i'd run on my phone
May 15 15:49:11 <tmccrary> Like I said before, it doesn't handle a lot of complicated matrix transforms, vector calculations (dot products, cross products, etc) well
May 15 15:49:13 <Dougie187> but michaelnovakjr. its above your head.
May 15 15:49:24 <Dougie187> noone can understand.
May 15 15:49:25 <michaelnovakjr_1> i know... what do i know?
May 15 15:49:29 <Dougie187> only tmccrary
May 15 15:49:40 <Dougie187> he is the only one smart enough.
May 15 15:49:41 <davidw> damn I'm tired
May 15 15:49:45 <tmccrary> The hardware should be able to handle it better, qemu has problems
May 15 15:49:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> i still would love to know what language these complicated matrix transforms are in
May 15 15:49:48 <Dougie187> just let him turn an n810 into an android device.
May 15 15:49:52 <tmccrary> Java
May 15 15:50:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> ok, Java runs on the emulator
May 15 15:50:05 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:50:12 <tmccrary> yeah, which is slow
May 15 15:50:15 <davidw> tmccrary, the emulator is probably a *bit* slower than real hardware, but not that much
May 15 15:50:19 <davidw> it's a phone, not a Cray
May 15 15:50:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> thank you :)
May 15 15:50:41 <tmccrary> yeah, because matrix math and vector calculations require a cray
May 15 15:50:42 <michaelnovakjr_1> the phone doesn't have a dual core processor in it buddy
May 15 15:50:46 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:50:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
May 15 15:51:00 <Dougie187> btw, he ignored jasta and i
May 15 15:51:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
May 15 15:51:04 <tmccrary> For whatever reason, the emulator sucks at doing this stuff
May 15 15:51:08 <Dougie187> so he doesnt know what we say.
May 15 15:51:16 <tmccrary> I'm not the only person who has noticed this
May 15 15:51:18 <davidw> tmccrary, well, only you can be the judge of what the limits of your app are, but if it takes 5 minutes to run on the emulator, you're not going to get it down to 5 seconds on real hardware...
May 15 15:51:19 <Dougie187> maybe you should look at your code.
May 15 15:51:29 <tmccrary> If you weren't a newb (which you are), you'd know other people have had the same issues
May 15 15:51:34 <Dougie187> haha
May 15 15:51:39 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
May 15 15:51:46 <mazzen> this is really funny here :)
May 15 15:51:54 <davidw> tmccrary, so what kind of measurements do you/they have?
May 15 15:52:01 <Dougie187> i cant believe people come into the android irc to get into fights.
May 15 15:52:02 <michaelnovakjr_1> dude you are a moron..... you are completely talking out of your ass
May 15 15:52:08 <tmccrary> What do you mean davidw?
May 15 15:52:13 <tmccrary> Like performance metrics?
May 15 15:52:19 <davidw> tmccrary, yeah
May 15 15:52:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> obviously slow one ;)
May 15 15:52:36 <tmccrary> michaelnovakjr_1: Shouldn't you be out studying a hello world app or something?
May 15 15:52:42 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:52:45 <davidw> michaelnovakjr, I could see FP or some other thing being a *lot* slower on an emulator
May 15 15:52:55 <davidw> especially if there's a bug
May 15 15:52:58 <tmccrary> yep
May 15 15:53:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> that still doesn't excuse the fact you are developing for a mobile device
May 15 15:53:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> with a battery and mobile processor
May 15 15:53:31 <tmccrary> davidw: I'm dealing with affine spaces in 3d
May 15 15:53:39 <michaelnovakjr_1> for what
May 15 15:53:42 <Dougie187> On android?!
May 15 15:53:55 <michaelnovakjr_1> so you have something to look at as you smoke your brain away?
May 15 15:54:02 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 15:54:10 <michaelnovakjr_1> dude, this is a cell phone
May 15 15:54:19 <tmccrary> I can get a approximately 10-20 points projected into space before the emulator becomes unusable slow, stutters and dies
May 15 15:54:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> learn from those enkin guys.... overkill is bad on a phone
May 15 15:54:28 <Dougie187> What is he trying to do?
May 15 15:54:30 <tmccrary> Base level android hardware should be able to handle far more than that
May 15 15:54:34 <Dougie187> Affine spaces in 3d?
May 15 15:54:39 <tmccrary> I know because I've done it on similar hardware before
May 15 15:54:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> using android?
May 15 15:54:51 <Dougie187> ask him what the point is.
May 15 15:54:56 <Dougie187> since he cant hear me
May 15 15:54:58 <tmccrary> cutie, go back to your sandbox or whatever
May 15 15:55:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> dude what is the point of affine spaces in 3d?
May 15 15:55:12 <davidw> tmccrary, did you file a bug report?
May 15 15:55:20 <tmccrary> before I have to beat you to death with a clue bat
May 15 15:55:21 <davidw> tmccrary, that's the first thing to do
May 15 15:55:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> romainguy_ affine spaces in 3d on android?!?
May 15 15:55:36 <Dougie187> im curious what hes trying to do
May 15 15:55:40 <michaelnovakjr_1> me too
May 15 15:55:52 <Dougie187> davidw can you ask him?
May 15 15:55:57 <Dougie187> since he will respond to you?
May 15 15:56:09 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr_1: what's the problem with that?
May 15 15:56:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> what's the point?
May 15 15:56:24 <tmccrary> michaelnovakjr_1: You're an idiot, I need to ignore you now
May 15 15:56:28 <Dougie187> brb flre alarm
May 15 15:56:28 <romainguy_> do apply 3d transformations?
May 15 15:56:32 <michaelnovakjr_1> you need to get lost
May 15 15:56:45 <davidw> romainguy, apparently tmccrary has a problem with the emulator
May 15 15:56:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> this dude says the emulator crashes when doing that
May 15 15:56:56 <romainguy_> -do+to
May 15 15:57:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> and runs slow
May 15 15:57:15 <romainguy_> slow, I can expect that
May 15 15:57:18 <romainguy_> but a crash...
May 15 15:57:25 <romainguy_> that said without the logs, it's hard to tell what's going on
May 15 15:57:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> the guy's an ass
May 15 15:57:55 <michaelnovakjr_1> and running hacked android on hardware will solve all the problems :)
May 15 15:58:08 <michaelnovakjr_1> some people just don't get it
May 15 15:59:22 <mazzen> have to go, bye to all!
May 15 16:00:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> i am curious if we should expect big code re-writes with the upcoming sdk
May 15 16:00:47 <muthu> when's the sdk coming?
May 15 16:00:55 <romainguy_> muthu: when it's released
May 15 16:00:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> i don't believe it has been said
May 15 16:00:59 <muthu> hehe
May 15 16:01:08 <muthu> romainguy_:  you guys never change!
May 15 16:01:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> ^^^ muthu, its a true statement :)
May 15 16:01:28 <cutmasta> it seems that every app won which just used the gps stuff
May 15 16:01:30 <cutmasta> tzz
May 15 16:01:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> the when it's released that is
May 15 16:01:33 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr_1: So far I would say you can expect a transition similar from M3 to M5 (I'm just talking about APIs, the UI won't change as much :))
May 15 16:01:41 <cutmasta> the simplest app, but with gps, winner
May 15 16:01:42 <cutmasta> hmm
May 15 16:01:51 <muthu> goog's get the new sdk by this week
May 15 16:01:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> huh?
May 15 16:02:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> romainguy_ not bad
May 15 16:02:14 <muthu> so we can get to work
May 15 16:02:19 <tmccrary> cool
May 15 16:02:39 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, did your buddy incognito tell you that :)
May 15 16:02:43 <cutmasta> muthu, where did you get the info?
May 15 16:02:48 <cutmasta> :)
May 15 16:02:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> incognito man
May 15 16:02:53 <muthu> where's incognito?
May 15 16:02:56 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:02:57 <michaelnovakjr_1> he's here
May 15 16:03:04 <muthu> who's that?
May 15 16:03:09 <cutmasta> lol
May 15 16:03:17 <muthu> love him
May 15 16:03:18 <michaelnovakjr_1> muthu, he's incognito
May 15 16:03:23 <muthu> hehe
May 15 16:03:39 <muthu> he's the only one who understood what i said ;)
May 15 16:03:42 <Dougie187> did he ever explain why he was using affine spaces in 3d on a cell phone?
May 15 16:03:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> nope
May 15 16:03:56 <Dougie187> bust,.
May 15 16:04:00 <romainguy_> why wouldn't you?
May 15 16:04:08 <Dougie187> what is a use of it?
May 15 16:04:16 <Dougie187> thats what im curious about.
May 15 16:04:29 <romainguy_> to apply 3d effects?
May 15 16:04:36 <Dougie187> like what?
May 15 16:04:36 <romainguy_> or more precisely 2.5D effects
May 15 16:04:41 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'm curious not so much of why he's using it but why he is crashing an emulator all the time
May 15 16:04:49 <romainguy_> you've seen CoverFlow on iPhone or Mac OS X?
May 15 16:04:56 <Dougie187> yeah.
May 15 16:05:03 <romainguy_> well you could implement it that way
May 15 16:05:14 <michaelnovakjr_1> seems to me like a poor implementation of it, if it is crashing an emulator constantly
May 15 16:05:15 <Dougie187> but woudlnt there be better ways of doing that?
May 15 16:05:32 <romainguy_> you could use OpenGL
May 15 16:05:45 <romainguy_> but that would be a lot of work for a very simple transformation you can easily apply with the 2D API
May 15 16:05:56 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr_1: I've never seen it crash anything
May 15 16:06:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> that is what i mean
May 15 16:06:26 <michaelnovakjr_1> this guy is complaining about crashes, but yet knows he is coding everything perfect :)
May 15 16:06:51 <romainguy_> well I'd be glad to investigate our code if I could get my hands on the log for the crashes
May 15 16:07:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'd be curious to see log files
May 15 16:07:28 <Dougie187> look out romainguy. he is kind of a jerk.
May 15 16:07:34 <Dougie187> he likes to talk down to people a lot.
May 15 16:07:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> maybe there's a while(1) wrapping some matrix transformation :)
May 15 16:07:50 <Dougie187> and i hope you dont mind your name being "Champ"
May 15 16:07:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
May 15 16:10:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> Icahn is making this yahoo situation look interesting
May 15 16:11:17 <Dougie187> oh yeah?
May 15 16:12:07 <michaelnovakjr_1> yep
May 15 16:12:29 <Dougie187> i havent heard anything about it.
May 15 16:12:32 <michaelnovakjr_1> he said he bought 59 million shares of yahoo and called the board irresponsible in regards to the MS problem
May 15 16:12:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8833
May 15 16:13:06 <Dougie187> man. that guy is ugly.
May 15 16:13:20 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha yea
May 15 16:13:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> he put on pressure during the BEA sale to Oracle
May 15 16:14:26 <Dougie187> thats stupid.
May 15 16:14:45 <Dougie187> he sounds like a douche.
May 15 16:14:48 <Dougie187> i bet hes tmccrary
May 15 16:14:48 <michaelnovakjr_1> http://blogs.zdnet.com/semantic-web/?p=154
May 15 16:14:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha
May 15 16:15:04 <michaelnovakjr_1> yahoo just launched a dev challenge too
May 15 16:15:10 <Dougie187> 10k
May 15 16:15:10 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:15:50 <jasta> hehe, it did occur to me way early on in the ADC that winning the $25k was actually more like fair compensation for my work.
May 15 16:16:10 <Dougie187> I would like to see an issue of the Android developer blog that is the Developers top ADC picks.
May 15 16:16:17 <jasta> for the work involved, that's well in line with your average software engineers salary.
May 15 16:16:56 <davidw> jasta, lesson: be the one running the contests, rather than the guy entering them:->
May 15 16:16:57 <jasta> Dougie187: me too, but i don't know if the marketing dept would be ok with that.
May 15 16:17:23 <jasta> well, $275k and $100k are not well in line... :)
May 15 16:17:23 <dmoffett> the fact they are giving you anything is good.  It used to be you had to buy the api package and then develop a product.
May 15 16:17:26 <romainguy_> and we don't really have time to look at the 50 apps to choose the one we like best :))
May 15 16:17:36 <Dougie187> no,.
May 15 16:17:40 <Dougie187> i mean out of the 1788 apps
May 15 16:17:41 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:17:43 <Dougie187> not the top 50
May 15 16:17:46 <romainguy_> ah well
May 15 16:17:49 <romainguy_> forget it :))
May 15 16:17:54 <Dougie187> ive already seen the top 50.
May 15 16:17:58 <Dougie187> well
May 15 16:17:59 <Dougie187> 46
May 15 16:18:32 <Dougie187> im thinking after the ADC is over.
May 15 16:18:37 <michaelnovakjr_1> i think any amount is helpful
May 15 16:18:54 <Dougie187> that way a couple of the apps you guys would like to see could get some attention as well
May 15 16:19:43 <davidw> I think they're sick of looking at apps
May 15 16:19:49 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea
May 15 16:20:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> i think the good ones will prevail when the phones are released
May 15 16:20:12 <michaelnovakjr_1> some of the useless junk will be discarded
May 15 16:20:18 <davidw> although I think that highlighting a few non winners would probably be one of those "little that goes a long way" things
May 15 16:20:20 <Dougie187> hopefully.
May 15 16:20:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> i would say so
May 15 16:20:28 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 16:20:30 <Dougie187> thats what im saying.
May 15 16:21:00 <Dougie187> because i want to see some different apps.
May 15 16:21:32 <Dougie187> i mean we now have. 4 weather apps, two barcode apps, 6 random apps, and 34 social networking apps.
May 15 16:21:41 <davidw> well - there is that directory thing they were talking about, right?
May 15 16:21:46 <Dougie187> ?
May 15 16:22:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> 4 weather apps not including mine?
May 15 16:22:34 <jasta> Dougie187: there are even two music apps in there
May 15 16:23:04 <Dougie187> heh my list is a rough representation, but i tried to incorporate them into the random apps because i didnt want to type anymore.
May 15 16:23:12 <Dougie187> and yeah michaelnovakjr i believe not including yours.
May 15 16:23:14 <Dougie187> 3-4
May 15 16:23:16 <Dougie187> something like that
May 15 16:23:22 <Dougie187> at least 3, but i thought i say another one
May 15 16:23:24 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea, mine's dead
May 15 16:23:36 <Dougie187> saw*
May 15 16:25:22 <michaelnovakjr_1> i still think jasta has the better playr
May 15 16:25:39 <jasta> *grin*, thanks
May 15 16:25:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> it'll definitely be replacing my iPod
May 15 16:26:09 <Dougie187> i didnt even understand that diggin could play music from the description.
May 15 16:26:19 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah, i only assumed it could
May 15 16:26:19 <Dougie187> i thought it just got album art.
May 15 16:26:22 <jasta> because...how stupid if not.
May 15 16:26:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> haha, its a piece of crap
May 15 16:26:33 <Dougie187> and the tunewiki was to get lyrics.
May 15 16:26:55 <jasta> i'm sure tunewiki gets album artwork too and stuff
May 15 16:26:58 <jasta> my app, btw, gets artist photos as well
May 15 16:27:04 <Dougie187> nice
May 15 16:27:04 <jasta> very few music apps do that :)
May 15 16:27:11 <Dougie187> true dat.
May 15 16:27:17 <Dougie187> im just irritated by how many repeats there are.
May 15 16:27:19 <jasta> its actually totally cool too
May 15 16:27:22 <michaelnovakjr_1> Five is going to be the most robust music app out there
May 15 16:27:25 <jasta> a lot of them ive never seen before
May 15 16:27:35 <Dougie187> but they are all the same app.
May 15 16:27:41 <michaelnovakjr_1> Five will be the android iphone competitor
May 15 16:27:42 <Dougie187> its like 4 apps that repeat over and over again
May 15 16:27:56 <Dougie187> muthu should quote that and put it in a blog thing
May 15 16:28:08 <Dougie187> heres the headline.
May 15 16:28:13 <muthu> Dougie187: i'm too busy planning p2
May 15 16:28:18 <muthu> not blogging much
May 15 16:28:21 <michaelnovakjr_1> but with an inspirational twist
May 15 16:28:24 <Dougie187> "Michalenovakjr_1 says "Five will be the android iphone competitor""
May 15 16:28:47 <Dougie187> and then the text can just simply be
May 15 16:28:49 <Dougie187> "true"
May 15 16:29:01 <Dougie187> there muthu
May 15 16:29:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> with a screenshot, no words necessary
May 15 16:29:04 <Dougie187> i wrote you a post
May 15 16:29:38 <jasta> muthu: so, i couldn't help but notice
May 15 16:29:38 <muthu> Dougie187: why don't you write for HA?
May 15 16:29:41 <jasta> is that your wife in the video?
May 15 16:29:58 <muthu> no no no
May 15 16:30:00 <Dougie187> lol i asked if it was his partner.
May 15 16:30:06 <Dougie187> "partner"
May 15 16:30:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> to give it the muthu flare it would have to be ..... "and like rocky the application Five has risen out of the challenge as a true winner..... a success application"
May 15 16:30:20 <jasta> ok, because i was actually going to wonder why your wife did not look Indian :)
May 15 16:30:21 <Dougie187> muthu: i dont liek to partake in journalism.
May 15 16:30:42 <muthu> mine is an indian
May 15 16:30:43 <Dougie187> Heh
May 15 16:30:51 <jasta> muthu: i know, i assumed it would by given your culture
May 15 16:31:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> she's not irish?
May 15 16:31:08 <muthu> yeah, but you know people marry who they like now
May 15 16:31:17 <Dougie187> like me.
May 15 16:31:21 <Dougie187> ;)
May 15 16:31:24 <jasta> muthu: even in India?
May 15 16:31:29 <muthu> oh yeah
May 15 16:31:33 <michaelnovakjr_1> like is an interesting word
May 15 16:31:38 <muthu> atleast the urban
May 15 16:31:43 <Dougie187> it is very interesting.
May 15 16:31:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> not sure it applies to marriage :)
May 15 16:31:52 <jasta> really?  that surprises me.  that cultural idea of marrying for status has carried over even among the Indians I know living in Seattle
May 15 16:32:03 <michaelnovakjr_1> in NY too
May 15 16:32:06 <muthu> india is a mixed bag
May 15 16:32:11 <Dougie187> i would be confusing as hell to a foreign student.
May 15 16:32:13 <muthu> you find everything
May 15 16:32:15 <muthu> all extremes
May 15 16:32:31 <jasta> also, a lot of men horny for redheads and blondes.
May 15 16:32:33 <jasta> ;)
May 15 16:32:40 <muthu> oh oh
May 15 16:32:48 <muthu> its a universal trait, isn't it?
May 15 16:32:57 <jasta> no way, brunettes all the way man
May 15 16:32:59 <Dougie187> thats how she got in the video jasta
May 15 16:33:02 <jasta> much sexier look :)
May 15 16:33:29 <muthu> women are sexy
May 15 16:33:36 <michaelnovakjr_1> amen
May 15 16:33:58 <jasta> i've heard some horror stories from female friends who went to India.  The men literally can't deal with seeing an attractive, white woman with blonde hair.
May 15 16:34:08 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:34:13 <michaelnovakjr_1> same here in NY
May 15 16:34:17 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
May 15 16:34:20 <jasta> hehe, yeah :)
May 15 16:34:22 <muthu> i told you india has extremes
May 15 16:34:25 <Dougie187> do they like rip off their pants and chase them down the streets?
May 15 16:34:27 <muthu> end to end
May 15 16:34:58 <jasta> Dougie187: Most recently, my friend was telling me guys would literally find excuses to grope her.  Like when standing line they would get way too close to her and touch her hip briefly and stuff
May 15 16:35:03 <jasta> she was totally freaked out
May 15 16:35:14 <muthu> yeah that will happen
May 15 16:35:16 <Dougie187> i would carry a knife.
May 15 16:35:20 <Dougie187> and 6 guns
May 15 16:35:24 <jasta> her boyfriend was even with her
May 15 16:35:33 <Dougie187> he didnt fight people?
May 15 16:35:35 <jasta> and he's a big dude.  it seemed men in india did not care about that.
May 15 16:35:40 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:35:44 <muthu> you can't fight the crowd
May 15 16:35:47 <jasta> well it was like such an unreasonably common thing, it's like what do youdo?
May 15 16:35:49 <Dougie187> they feel its totally worth it
May 15 16:36:05 <muthu> i mean everyone suffers
May 15 16:36:06 <Dougie187> not go to india?
May 15 16:36:15 <living_sword> lol
May 15 16:36:26 <Dougie187> no offense muthu.
May 15 16:36:31 <Dougie187> i dont think im going to let my wife go there.
May 15 16:36:35 <muthu> haha
May 15 16:36:44 <muthu> remember, extremes
May 15 16:36:51 <muthu> you have good, bad, ugly everything
May 15 16:36:55 <Dougie187> and the extremes are never good.
May 15 16:37:14 <muthu> india is complicated
May 15 16:37:20 <living_sword> very
May 15 16:37:30 <jasta> off to work
May 15 16:37:36 <Dougie187> see ya jasta
May 15 16:37:49 <muthu> jasta: say hi to the brunette ;)
May 15 16:38:03 <jasta> we have this new chick that started last week from romania
May 15 16:38:18 <muthu> so you've been showing her five?
May 15 16:38:20 <Dougie187> and thats the only reason you go to work now?
May 15 16:38:22 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 16:38:24 <jasta> i really dont like to be that creepy guy but my god she is gorgeous
May 15 16:38:28 <jasta> one of the most beautiful women ive ever seen
May 15 16:38:42 <muthu> let me tell your gf
May 15 16:38:46 <michaelnovakjr_1> have a few of those here :)
May 15 16:38:46 <Dougie187> and... your that creepy guy
May 15 16:38:55 <jasta> Dougie187: oh yeah, i knew that would make me be :)
May 15 16:38:59 <jasta> but normally, i try not to be hehe
May 15 16:39:00 <Dougie187> hah
May 15 16:39:02 <jasta> not this time, wooo! :)
May 15 16:39:06 <jasta> anyway, off to work
May 15 16:39:14 <michaelnovakjr_1> if she's like mine... she'll say yea so? tell me something i don't know :)
May 15 16:44:23 <cutmasta> bye all
May 15 16:44:45 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 15 17:00:21 <jasta> i don't understand this LiMo thing
May 15 17:00:36 <jasta> is it a smartphone platform?  is it proprietary or open source?  is there a release we can see?
May 15 17:01:00 <volmarias> IT IS A MYSTERY!
May 15 17:02:42 <living_sword> its just in the air for now
May 15 17:03:06 <living_sword> but yeah its a middleware competing with android
May 15 17:04:11 <living_sword> and its already out on fones
May 15 17:05:47 <Dougie187> its clever how you spell it fones.
May 15 17:05:56 <Dougie187> ;)
May 15 17:07:05 <living_sword> http://developer.att.com/gamescontest
May 15 17:07:12 <living_sword> any1 into this
May 15 17:07:43 <jasta> living_sword: how can it be both out on phones and up in the air?
May 15 17:07:49 <jasta> wouldn't that mean it is currently closed?
May 15 17:08:22 <living_sword> its out on fones for the corps. but for us, the sdk is still in the air
May 15 17:08:27 <jasta> living_sword: i for one am not out hunting for some new challenge to slave over, thank you very much.
May 15 17:08:44 <jasta> google's was more than enough disappointment for me :)
May 15 17:11:01 <Dougie187> lol
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 15 17:18:19 2008

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 15 17:20:14 2008
May 15 17:23:44 <jasta> morrildl: *poke*
May 15 17:28:08 <morrildl> jasta: LiMo is basically a specification for building a set of system libraries intended for use on phones
May 15 17:28:21 <morrildl> It's sort of like the LSB except for phones/embedded devices
May 15 17:28:24 <jasta> not a particular implementation?
May 15 17:28:29 <morrildl> correct
May 15 17:28:42 <morrildl> It's a little bit more than the LSB tho, in that they are working on SDKs and so on
May 15 17:29:00 <morrildl> but while there will be a set of reference SDKs, there won't be a reference implementation per se
May 15 17:29:14 <morrildl> In particular, LiMo currently explicitly disclaims control over the UI
May 15 17:29:35 <morrildl> carriers/OEMs are expected to build their own user experience on top of LiMo
May 15 17:29:50 <jasta> lol, lame
May 15 17:30:16 <morrildl> the analogy I make is that jsut as Red Hat or others can choose KDE or GNOME to put on top of an LSB-compliant distro, so can OEMs/carriers build or choose a UI to put on top of LiMo
May 15 17:30:28 <morrildl> jasta: well, I guess I wouldn't call it lame
May 15 17:30:41 <morrildl> at least, not any more lame than the LSB is
May 15 17:31:31 <morrildl> they're building consensus among phone distro vendors, as opposed to building a product per se
May 15 17:31:33 <jasta> i suppose, but it seems unlikely that you'd get anywhere with this as an outside developer
May 15 17:31:44 <morrildl> jasta: well, we'll have to wait for their SDK
May 15 17:32:02 <morrildl> or, I guess SDKs
May 15 17:32:07 <morrildl> IIRC they have 3 coming
May 15 17:32:47 <morrildl> Contrast with Android which is^H^H will be a single unified open source project, but that is not a standard per se
May 15 17:36:11 <muthu> morrildl: new sdk?
May 15 17:44:47 <plusminus_> O_o  rly ?
May 15 17:44:47 <plusminus_> *excitement*
May 15 17:45:20 <muthu> plusminus_: what are you excited about?
May 15 17:46:17 <jasta> muthu: no no, he was saying for LiMo.
May 15 17:46:23 <plusminus_> muthu	morrildl: new sdk?
May 15 17:46:41 <muthu> morrildl: yet to answer
May 15 17:46:45 <muthu> we don't know yet
May 15 17:47:00 <plusminus_> I heard it will have full TTS capability :)
May 15 17:47:02 <jasta> michaelnovakjr_1: *poke*
May 15 17:47:03 <plusminus_> just dreaming :(
May 15 17:47:41 <muthu> no one knows what's coming in the next sdk
May 15 17:48:09 <plusminus_> any rumours when it will be available ?
May 15 17:48:27 <muthu> jasta: any rumours?
May 15 17:48:35 <zhobbs`> I was hoping for a release right after the deadline
May 15 17:48:38 <jasta> uhh, yeah, next Thursday.
May 15 17:48:48 <plusminus_> unfortunately the code-page still says: "Build m5-rc15g"
May 15 17:48:55 <muthu> it has to happen this week
May 15 17:49:03 <plusminus_> so the changes might be not that big
May 15 17:49:06 <jasta> muthu: honestly, i thought it would be weeks and weeks ago
May 15 17:49:07 <plusminus_> ^^
May 15 17:49:11 <jasta> so i dont know what is going on.
May 15 17:49:17 <muthu> jasta: truw
May 15 17:49:18 <muthu> true
May 15 17:49:29 <muthu> you've been saying since march
May 15 17:49:31 <jasta> i'm wondering now if they really plan to wait for the ADC to be over
May 15 17:49:33 <jasta> that would be just awful
May 15 17:50:00 <muthu> no way
May 15 17:50:35 <zhobbs`> jasta: I think they might
May 15 17:50:41 <jasta> zhobbs`: yeah, it's looking like that :(
May 15 17:50:52 <jasta> i mean, no one would've predicted they'd wait even this long
May 15 17:51:17 <jasta> we can reasonably assume they wont release a new SDK near the June 30th deadlin
May 15 17:51:19 <jasta> e
May 15 17:51:56 <jasta> and though elsewhere in google they have been futzing with the ADC, the engineering team responsible for the SDK would otherwise be unaffected
May 15 17:52:59 <muthu> it might be coming this week
May 15 17:59:34 <michaelnovakjr_1> they should just release it and leave it up to the developers as to which version they want to use
May 15 18:02:06 <plusminus__> anyone knows anything about a (still alive) TTS-Project ?
May 15 18:02:27 <plusminus__> i've had contact with a guy, but he seems to have dropped his work :(
May 15 18:11:38 <plusminus__> doesn't seem so
May 15 18:15:59 <michaelnovakjr_1> what is the TTS-Project?
May 15 18:18:00 <plusminus__> Text To Speech
May 15 18:18:35 <michaelnovakjr_1> was it open source plusminus__?
May 15 18:19:17 <plusminus__> dunno, at leaste he wanted to make it usable by other apps
May 15 18:19:27 <plusminus__> but no sources as far as I know
May 15 18:19:58 <plusminus__> http://www.l1ghtm4n.com/?q=taxonomy/term/5
May 15 18:20:25 <plusminus__> oh eh planned to open the source after ADC
May 15 18:20:55 <muthu> plusminus__: any idea on voice commands?
May 15 18:21:04 <plusminus__> ?
May 15 18:21:15 <michaelnovakjr_1> plusminus__, was it ever demoed?
May 15 18:21:16 <plusminus__> Speech Recognition ?
May 15 18:21:23 <muthu> plusminus__: yeah
May 15 18:22:04 <plusminus__> michaelnovakjr_1 dunno, not to me. But he promised to keep me up to date of success on his work
May 15 18:22:07 <tale_> anybody know of a java ocr library that I could use within my android program?
May 15 18:22:07 <plusminus__> ...
May 15 18:22:16 <plusminus__> muthu: Not seen any yet
May 15 18:22:22 <muthu> ok
May 15 18:22:27 <muthu> wow, the judges list is out
May 15 18:22:35 <plusminus__> ?
May 15 18:22:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> where have you been
May 15 18:22:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> it came out yesterday
May 15 18:22:53 <muthu> http://code.google.com/android/adc_judges.html
May 15 18:23:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
May 15 18:23:23 <michaelnovakjr_1> no addresses or ssn's
May 15 18:23:27 <michaelnovakjr_1> :(
May 15 18:23:40 <muthu> haha
May 15 18:23:47 <muthu> an angry mob is already out
May 15 18:24:00 <michaelnovakjr_1> well, we know who they work for
May 15 18:24:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> :)
May 15 18:24:22 <plusminus__> michaelnovakjr_1 :-D
May 15 18:24:50 <michaelnovakjr_1> now if we find out their scoring cards we'll be all set :)
May 15 18:40:51 <tmccrary> Miguel de icaza?
May 15 18:40:55 <tmccrary> What is that idiot doing on there?
May 15 18:47:24 * f00f- googles
May 15 18:47:39 <f00f-> wtf
May 15 18:47:46 <f00f-> "Miguel has had cameo appearances in the 2001 motion pictures Antitrust and The Code."
May 15 18:48:07 <tmccrary> He should have stayed acting, what a massive tool
May 15 18:48:32 <f00f-> what is wrong with him
May 15 18:49:02 <tmccrary> He promotes microsoft technologies in open source
May 15 18:49:04 <tmccrary> he's a leper
May 15 18:49:11 <volmarias> ah.
May 15 18:50:02 <f00f-> leper con
May 15 18:50:19 <tmccrary> nice, lol
May 15 18:50:57 <mazzen> irrespective of the fact that this is not true, this is #android or? why is miguel/microsoft discussed?
May 15 18:51:10 <volmarias> because he's a judge I guess?
May 15 18:51:15 <f00f-> ugh, next topic.
May 15 18:52:33 <tmccrary> wow, way to read
May 15 18:54:11 <davanum> i know one guy on that list :)
May 15 18:55:09 <michaelnovakjr_1> what does it matter what is discussed? we spoke about video games for a half hour at one pont
May 15 18:55:11 <michaelnovakjr_1> point
May 15 19:00:43 <muthu> davanum: who's that?
May 15 19:01:19 <michaelnovakjr_1> incognito muthu
May 15 19:01:30 <muthu> ha, incognito
May 15 19:01:36 <muthu> michaelnovakjr_1: its you!
May 15 19:01:52 <michaelnovakjr_1> !
May 15 19:02:20 <davanum> muthu: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Ben+Hyde%22+apache&btnG=Search
May 15 19:02:37 <muthu> ok
May 15 19:06:10 <f00f-> saw your screenshots muthu
May 15 19:06:10 <f00f-> nice
May 15 19:06:17 <muthu> f00f-: thanks
May 15 19:06:17 <f00f-> whats were you favorites in the slide deck
May 15 19:06:34 <muthu> commandro
May 15 19:07:32 <f00f-> that's it?
May 15 19:07:43 <muthu> and a few others
May 15 19:07:48 <muthu> what's yours?
May 15 19:08:21 <f00f-> i guess there were a few interesting ones
May 15 19:09:13 <muthu> AndroidScan is cool
May 15 19:10:05 <michaelnovakjr_1> i didn't really see much i liked
May 15 19:10:15 <michaelnovakjr_1> the phone book one is cool
May 15 19:10:36 <f00f-> a lot of these are novel and nice
May 15 19:10:40 <f00f-> but many are just wow factor
May 15 19:10:44 <f00f-> and won't be used in the real world
May 15 19:10:48 <zhobbs`> Dyno is cool
May 15 19:11:00 <zhobbs`> seems really simple, but cool
May 15 19:11:06 <michaelnovakjr_1> yea, I am a practical person .... so if it doesn't do anything useful ... i simply wont use it
May 15 19:11:26 <f00f-> gimme a game that i can play for 30 to 90 seconds at a time
May 15 19:11:28 <michaelnovakjr_1> jasta's music app blow's the others out of the water
May 15 19:11:28 <f00f-> that's useful
May 15 19:11:37 <zhobbs`> I'm a car guy, so I'll use it
May 15 19:12:37 <zhobbs`> if I could set the phone up as a camera and then record the video of me driving and save it with synced g-meter graphs, that'd be cool
May 15 19:13:30 <michaelnovakjr_1> if i could record the video of me walking to work, some lonely bald guy sitting in his studio apartment might find it interesting.... he would feel like he's outside :)
May 15 19:13:46 <f00f-> loo
May 15 19:14:08 <michaelnovakjr_1> his way of living a new life!
May 15 19:14:45 <michaelnovakjr_1> i'll call it life squared
May 15 19:25:59 <tale_> has anyone heard if there are plans to include a proximity sensor on android phones so that the touch screen won't be disabled when in a phone?
May 15 19:26:10 <f00f-> no
May 15 19:26:22 <tale_> so if the phone has a sensor, the touch controls aren't locked
May 15 19:26:31 <f00f-> that's up to the manufacturers
May 15 19:26:41 <tale_> well, it looks like the api doesn't support it
May 15 19:26:50 <tale_> at least the emulator doesn't
May 15 19:26:52 <f00f-> it's not finalized yet
May 15 19:27:02 <f00f-> next sdk will have some goodies
May 15 19:27:05 <tale_> that's what I keep telling myself
May 15 19:27:20 <f00f-> just watch and wait :)
May 15 19:27:25 <f00f-> aight, imma get some lunch
May 15 19:27:35 <tale_> any idea how long I might have to wait?
May 15 19:27:53 <tale_> it's been a while since the last sdk came out, right?
May 15 19:27:53 <michaelnovakjr_1> tale_ until its released....
May 15 19:28:01 <michaelnovakjr_1> very long while
May 15 20:06:02 <bstock> hey i'm following a tutorial here: http://code.google.com/p/android-on-n8xx/wiki/Home trying to add busybox ot the emulator and it's telling me 'command adb not found'
May 15 20:07:24 <zhobbs`> add the tools folder to your $PATH
May 15 20:08:06 <bstock> happen to know where on the emulator's filesystem the tools dir is
May 15 20:09:36 <zhobbs`> no, the tools folder for your sdk
May 15 20:18:13 <bstock> hmm, if i add the tools dir to my PATH, then the emulator boots up, it won't be able to find the adb path still since it's a new shell...
May 15 20:18:36 <bstock> and from inside the emulator's shell it cannot see the sdk's tools dir
May 15 20:19:05 <zhobbs`> right, so you don't need adb once you're in the shell
May 15 20:19:22 <zhobbs`> sorry, I missed that you're working on the nokia
May 15 20:19:55 <trigatch4> howdy folks
May 15 20:19:57 <bstock> ok the tutorial says start the emulator, then once the emulator is fully running use the adb program to add busybox
May 15 20:20:08 <bstock> would i run adb from outside the emulator's shell or inside?
May 15 20:20:12 <zhobbs`> outside
May 15 20:20:16 <zhobbs`> run on host
May 15 20:20:29 <bstock> ok
May 15 20:20:32 <zhobbs`> adb push <path to busybox> <path on emulator>
May 15 20:21:54 <bstock> sweet there it goes
May 15 20:21:54 <bstock> thx
May 15 20:26:10 <bstock> hmm when i try to push the app to the emulator, it skips a bunch of files saying 'skipping special files'
May 15 20:28:25 <zhobbs`> don't know about that
May 15 20:28:41 <jasta> bstock: do you have a log file somewhere?
May 15 20:28:47 <jasta> or rather, can you post one? :)
May 15 20:30:48 <bstock> well don't see any logs in /data/logs/
May 15 20:33:51 <jasta> i mean can you just paste what you see to a pastebin or something?
May 15 20:33:53 <jasta> and give us some context
May 15 20:34:46 <bstock> http://pastebin.ca/1019422
May 15 20:34:52 <bstock> that's what i'm trying to push to the emu
May 15 20:35:23 <bstock> it doesn't want to push the folders it looks like
May 15 20:36:12 <bstock> wait i think i know what i'm doing wrong. think i have to push the busybox binary not the folder
May 15 20:36:48 <bstock> but damn tutorial never said anything about compiling a binary
May 15 20:37:11 <jasta> uhh hehe
May 15 20:37:17 <jasta> busybox comes as a single binary isntaller initially
May 15 20:37:30 <jasta> then you run busybox --install or whatever the switch is to balloon into all the symlinks
May 15 20:37:52 <jasta> what you've tried to do is push the entire project directory instead of the compiled binary
May 15 20:38:44 <bstock> right, looking at compiling the binary right now
May 15 20:38:48 <bstock> stupid tutorial
May 15 20:38:57 <bstock> they'd prob say stupid me
May 15 20:39:17 <Lede> did you read it?
May 15 20:39:19 <Lede> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080515-verizon-picks-linuxbut-not-androidfor-mobile-platform.html
May 15 20:39:40 <tmccrary> verizon sucks
May 15 20:40:17 <bstock> all phone carriers suck really
May 15 20:40:26 <Lede> vacuum cleaners suck
May 15 20:40:37 <tmccrary> verizon is the worst though
May 15 20:40:44 <f00f-> only thing MS made that didn't suck was a vacuum cleaner
May 15 20:41:00 <zhobbs`> T-mobile sucks...if first android phone is t-mobile that's going to suck
May 15 20:41:05 <zhobbs`> they don't even have 3g yet
May 15 20:47:47 <Lede> 3g?
May 15 20:49:41 <bstock> high-speed internet stuff
May 15 20:52:03 <zhobbs`> Lede: yeah, high speed internet in the US
May 15 20:53:02 <trigatch4> Well you can bet the first won't be on Verizon
May 15 20:53:10 <trigatch4> And you can be pretty sure it won't be on AT&T
May 15 20:53:22 <trigatch4> So that leaves you with either T-Mobile or Sprint
May 15 20:53:25 <trigatch4> for the most part
May 15 20:53:44 <zhobbs`> sprint phones don't have sim cards, and t-mobile doesn't have 3g
May 15 20:53:57 <trigatch4> To be honest with you, though... if I were Google... I would plan an "Android Day"
May 15 20:54:09 <trigatch4> Where about 10 Android phones came out across the 4 main carriers on one single day
May 15 20:54:35 <trigatch4> That'd be the way to do it... especially if you expect anyone to use any of these "social networking" apps
May 15 20:54:52 <trigatch4> Huge, immediate impact that everyone will be talking about
May 15 20:55:04 <trigatch4> You wouldn't be able to escape
May 15 20:55:13 <zhobbs`> trigatch4: no one expects people to use those apps :)
May 15 20:55:20 <trigatch4> hehe
May 15 20:55:41 <trigatch4> ADC judges seem to
May 15 20:55:57 <zhobbs`> yep
May 15 20:55:59 <trigatch4> by the way, anybody hear that Facebook banned Google's Friend Connect from accessing their API?
May 15 20:56:10 <trigatch4> social networking wars have officially begun
May 15 20:56:15 <zhobbs`> I wish an email client would have won
May 15 20:56:25 <zhobbs`> or something boring like that
May 15 20:56:29 <zhobbs`> someone people would use
May 15 20:56:42 <zhobbs`> but 1/4 of points are for original ideas
May 15 20:57:29 <trigatch4> well zhobbs', i think google expects to release those basic tools themselves, cashing in on contextual advertising within your email client kind of like they do (minimally) on gmail now
May 15 20:57:45 <Lede> zhobbs`: oh ok
May 15 20:57:52 <trigatch4> they'll allow email apps but don't want to encourage a competitor out of the gate
May 15 20:58:10 <zhobbs`> well...I'm not going to use gmail...or an email client with ads
May 15 20:58:12 <trigatch4> i mean, you have to wonder what apps android handsets will come prepackaged with
May 15 20:58:29 <zhobbs`> so we need a strong open source email client or something
May 15 20:58:38 <trigatch4> agreed, that would be nice
May 15 20:59:13 <zhobbs`> yeah, I'd assume phone will come with an email client
May 15 20:59:14 <trigatch4> something i've wondered about but have no clue about (since i don't program)... what are the possibilities of virus' on android?
May 15 20:59:30 <trigatch4> could you download a virus to your phone that infects other people's phones because of the open source connectivity?
May 15 20:59:50 <f00f-> or just a good freeware client
May 15 20:59:57 <f00f-> i dont see why people demand open source so much these days
May 15 21:00:07 <f00f-> back in the days of DOS, alnmost everything was freeware
May 15 21:00:24 <zhobbs`> trigatch4: well, I don't think open source will make it more prone to viruses
May 15 21:00:37 <trigatch4> well i just mean viruses in general
May 15 21:00:45 <trigatch4> could you download a virus to your android phone?
May 15 21:00:55 <zhobbs`> but if the user clicks "yes" at every security prompt he could be in trouble I would assume
May 15 21:01:00 <trigatch4> or is there something inherent in android that blocks/protects against viruses
May 15 21:01:56 <trigatch4> because if not... thats a billion dollar idea right there.... mobile handset virus protection software
May 15 21:02:09 <trigatch4> like mcafee mobile
May 15 21:02:11 <zhobbs`> it uses standard linux permissions, but I don't really know much about software security
May 15 21:02:12 <f00f-> symantec is already on it
May 15 21:02:24 <f00f-> virus protection goes more
May 15 21:02:27 <trigatch4> bastards
May 15 21:02:29 <f00f-> it'll be at the kernel level
May 15 21:02:29 <trigatch4> haha jk
May 15 21:02:48 <f00f-> but it's really open right now
May 15 21:03:01 <f00f-> if you provide a good plugin model for AV vendors to pop in their engines
May 15 21:03:06 <f00f-> that is possible, too
May 15 21:04:11 <jasta> zhobbs`: well, honestly, Google is writing lots of apps we haven't seen yet
May 15 21:04:20 <jasta> like e-mail, calendar etc
May 15 21:04:24 <jasta> i'm sure they're gonna be pretty cool ;)
May 15 21:04:30 <f00f-> yah
May 15 21:06:42 <jasta> man, i just don't get this SDK delay
May 15 21:07:49 <romainguy> :)
May 15 21:08:05 <romainguy> no date was ever announced so there's no delay :)
May 15 21:09:33 <f00f-> it's coming out in 1-2 weeks
May 15 21:10:55 <jasta> f00f-: let's have a lottery pot guessing which day in particular
May 15 21:11:02 <romainguy> that's what you guys have been saying for weeks now :)
May 15 21:11:39 <jasta> romainguy: do you actually have no idea?  does that decision just come down from the powers that be or are you aware of the date?
May 15 21:11:59 <romainguy> I cannot answer that question
May 15 21:12:10 <jasta> you can't answer whether or not you know? come on, it's just a teaser.
May 15 21:12:23 <romainguy> No I cannot answer that question :)
May 15 21:12:28 <romainguy> Ask Dan
May 15 21:12:32 <f00f-> of course he knows, he sees the flood of mails every morning with executives hounding for a release asap.
May 15 21:12:50 * jasta cries to morrildl 
May 15 21:13:20 * jasta starts tinkering with libfuse to distract himself
May 15 21:33:35 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 15 22:33:16 <Dougie187> jola everyone
May 15 23:18:35 <jasta> Dougie187: hello
May 15 23:18:52 <jasta> Dougie187: you are a java developer, right?
May 15 23:20:27 <Dougie187> i have written in java bevore
May 15 23:20:29 <Dougie187> before
May 15 23:20:43 <jasta> are you planning to write anything for ADC II?
May 15 23:20:49 <Dougie187> yes
May 15 23:21:07 <Dougie187> are you?
May 15 23:21:56 <jasta> well, i will resubmit my app of course
May 15 23:22:04 <Dougie187> cool
May 15 23:22:10 <Dougie187> are you looking for more project?
May 15 23:22:18 <jasta> more project?
May 15 23:22:21 <Dougie187> to, increase your chances?
May 15 23:22:22 <Dougie187> more projects.
May 15 23:22:24 <Dougie187> sorry
May 15 23:22:28 <jasta> oh, no.
May 15 23:22:29 <Dougie187> poor typing skills tonight
May 15 23:22:32 <f00f-> lol
May 15 23:22:33 <f00f-> hahahahahaa
May 15 23:22:38 <f00f-> "more project"
May 15 23:22:42 <Dougie187> are you looking for assistance?
May 15 23:22:49 <jasta> Dougie187: Yes ;)
May 15 23:22:59 <Dougie187> What kinda stuff do you have in mind?
May 15 23:23:21 <jasta> nothing in particular at the moment, but i am hoping to have contributors at some point
May 15 23:23:29 <Dougie187> oh
May 15 23:23:31 <Dougie187> ok
May 15 23:23:39 <Dougie187> im down with writing for some other apps
May 15 23:23:40 <f00f-> how do you intend to make money jasta?
May 15 23:23:54 <Dougie187> f00f- keep the contributors small.
May 15 23:23:56 <f00f-> i remember you saying you wanted to make a break into the mobile industry
May 15 23:24:00 <Dougie187> also, win the big prize
May 15 23:24:15 <f00f-> but working for free isn't exactly worth it for a living
May 15 23:24:17 <Dougie187> f00f- you did pednav right?
May 15 23:24:22 <f00f-> yeah
May 15 23:24:24 <Dougie187> nice.
May 15 23:24:38 <Dougie187> i think that was one of the few original ideas in the top 50.
May 15 23:25:09 <f00f-> oh i'm glad you agree :)
May 15 23:25:21 <Dougie187> i was irritated by most of them
May 15 23:25:29 <Dougie187> and how repetitive the themes were on all of them
May 15 23:25:29 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 23:25:46 <f00f-> but a lot of them do have nice/shiny UI's :P
May 15 23:25:48 <Dougie187> anyways. jasta i would be willing to contribute as soon as i get my laptop back
May 15 23:25:55 <Dougie187> true, but they are all the same thing
May 15 23:26:05 <Dougie187> like theres two freaking barcode scanning things
May 15 23:26:08 <Dougie187> and 3-4 weather apps
May 15 23:26:10 <Dougie187> and 2 music apps
May 15 23:26:16 <Dougie187> and like 20 social networking apps
May 15 23:26:19 <f00f-> i was surprised by the simplicity of the weather apps
May 15 23:26:25 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 23:26:31 <f00f-> some people took "a new angle on social networking" too far
May 15 23:26:33 <f00f-> or too seriously
May 15 23:26:36 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 23:26:50 <f00f-> i mean it's good to have it, but don't make it the #1 focus of your app
May 15 23:27:16 <jasta> f00f-: i don't intend to make money with Five.
May 15 23:27:25 <Dougie187> totally
May 15 23:27:48 <f00f-> jasta: oh so you have some other hidden gems cooking ;)
May 15 23:27:56 <jasta> not really
May 15 23:28:22 <Dougie187> i think he just wants to write a good app for android
May 15 23:28:34 <jasta> i have two goals running in parallel
May 15 23:28:39 <jasta> writing five, and getting a new career :)
May 15 23:28:45 <jasta> the two are not directly related ;)
May 15 23:29:06 <zhobbs> are they indirectly related? :)
May 15 23:29:10 <jasta> yes. ;)
May 15 23:29:12 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 23:29:27 <jasta> but only in the sense that i am getting my feet wet with one so that i bring meaningful experience to the table
May 15 23:29:35 <jasta> i take my career very seriously in that way
May 15 23:30:10 <Dougie187> so you could put adc on your resume
May 15 23:30:14 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 23:30:33 <jasta> well, that is nice too
May 15 23:30:37 <jasta> but really, it's about experience.
May 15 23:30:46 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 23:30:56 <zhobbs> it's all about connections
May 15 23:31:18 <Dougie187> do you have the connections?
May 15 23:31:19 <jasta> for some without integrity, sure.
May 15 23:31:50 <f00f-> sometimes (probably bad) connections outweigh importance of experience
May 15 23:31:58 <jasta> some folks are happy to land a job they don't deserve and poorly perform as long as they can keep it up.
May 15 23:32:12 <jasta> and i realize that works great for some people, but for me personally i would not do that ;)
May 15 23:33:00 <zhobbs> nothing wrong with getting a job you don't deserve and then working really hard and performing well though
May 15 23:33:01 <Dougie187> me either.
May 15 23:33:13 <jasta> zhobbs: well sure, but how often does that happen? :)
May 15 23:35:54 <jasta> and btw earlier i intended "it's about experience" to mean that my work on Five is about experience.
May 15 23:36:08 <jasta> it was not a comment on the job market ;)
May 15 23:37:16 <Dougie187> so what kinda contribution do you need?
May 15 23:37:58 <jasta> nothing in particular at the moment, but i mean the project will certainly need help moving forward.
May 15 23:38:39 <Dougie187> true dat.
May 15 23:38:44 <Dougie187> i also want to do that other app
May 15 23:38:47 <Dougie187> the "electric fence"
May 15 23:38:48 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 23:38:59 <Dougie187> but i think it needs more features.
May 15 23:39:04 <Dougie187> i dont think it could win alone.
May 15 23:39:16 <Dougie187> maybe ill add something with the gps
May 15 23:39:26 <jasta> perhaps not, but it would be a better app for users if it was kept small and simple
May 15 23:39:43 <Dougie187> true. i want it to be simple
May 15 23:39:56 <Dougie187> but i just cant think of anymore things to make it a bit more robust.
May 15 23:40:01 <jasta> perhaps you could write it not for the ADC but just to exist? :)
May 15 23:40:10 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 23:40:11 <jasta> it would be less work that way, since the feature set really is quite well bound
May 15 23:40:20 <Dougie187> yeah
May 15 23:40:40 <jasta> it's lame that the android calculator project didn't win.
May 15 23:40:42 <jasta> that thing looked great.
May 15 23:40:47 <Dougie187> there was one?
May 15 23:40:50 <jasta> they added graphing calculator support too
May 15 23:40:53 <Dougie187> nice
May 15 23:40:58 <jasta> yeah and it looked nice
May 15 23:40:59 <Dougie187> with symbolic algebra?
May 15 23:41:01 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 23:41:01 <jasta> yes
May 15 23:41:07 <Dougie187> and calculus?
May 15 23:41:16 <jasta> not demonstrated, but i'm sure it was or will be in there.
May 15 23:41:23 <Dougie187> thats awesome
May 15 23:41:40 <jasta> it was clearly written by someone with a strong interest in proper maths.
May 15 23:41:56 <f00f-> electric fence .. is like a memory debugger, no?
May 15 23:42:00 <f00f-> (the unix app)
May 15 23:42:05 <Dougie187> no.
May 15 23:42:07 <Dougie187> well
May 15 23:42:11 <Dougie187> i dont know if its a real app alreayd
May 15 23:42:13 <Dougie187> already.
May 15 23:42:19 <Dougie187> but the idea is not like a memory debugger
May 15 23:42:37 <f00f-> fence in your family (like the austrian case) and keep a leash on them
May 15 23:42:38 <jasta> Dougie187: yes, it is.  efence is a C library which triggers fatal errors for otherwise non-fatal but still incorrect usage of memory in C
May 15 23:43:01 <jasta> which i'm quite familiar with, and also probably why i even had the phrase in my head in the first place ;)
May 15 23:43:14 <f00f-> nice, yeah you're turning out to be quite a C guy
May 15 23:43:21 <jasta> turning out to be?
May 15 23:43:45 <Dougie187> C is his fav.
May 15 23:43:47 <f00f-> i mean you are one
May 15 23:43:53 <Dougie187> but then again, whos fav isnt C?
May 15 23:43:56 <f00f-> used all the tools of the C trade
May 15 23:43:56 <jasta> f00f-: the process of you knowing something is not what makes it real :)
May 15 23:44:12 <f00f-> hahaha
May 15 23:44:19 <jasta> but yes, i am a real C guy.  learned it at 12.
May 15 23:44:27 <jasta> used it heavily for 10 years.
May 15 23:44:29 <f00f-> one day we will have some excellent quotes from this channel,mostly from jasta :)
May 15 23:44:32 <jasta> then discovered beer
May 15 23:44:47 <jasta> f00f-: sarcasm?
May 15 23:44:47 <f00f-> heh, and we know the rest!
May 15 23:44:54 <f00f-> not at all :)
May 15 23:45:24 <jasta> oh, then ok :)
May 15 23:45:27 <f00f-> Jasta's Book of Axioms: For Android Developers
May 15 23:45:43 <romainguy> the question is whether the axioms are wise or not :)
May 15 23:46:04 <f00f-> lol
May 15 23:46:08 <jasta> by inference, yes.
May 15 23:46:09 <jasta> ;)
May 15 23:47:48 <Dougie187> what kinda stuff do you get to do romainguy__?
May 15 23:48:05 <jasta> f00f-: It may not surprise you to know that I also have my copy K&R, 2nd edition and a printed and bound copy of the ANSI C standard (C89, in particular)
May 15 23:48:25 <romainguy> I work on the Android framework, most of the time on the UI toolkit
May 15 23:48:40 <Dougie187> nice.
May 15 23:48:42 <f00f-> i'd love to see a pic of your station at work romainguy
May 15 23:48:44 <Dougie187> do you enjoy it?
May 15 23:48:53 <romainguy> f00f-: I can't :)
May 15 23:49:07 <romainguy> Dougie187: Yes, I love my job
May 15 23:49:11 <morrildl> f00f-: he shares his cube with a couple of his fellow expats, so they call it the French Quarter
May 15 23:49:11 <davidw> larry and sergey would parachute out of black helicopters and blow him up
May 15 23:49:12 <f00f-> proprietary patent-pending desk arrangement? gotcha :)
May 15 23:49:18 <Dougie187> How long have you worked at google?
May 15 23:49:20 <romainguy> morrildl: I have an office :p
May 15 23:49:22 <f00f-> morrildl: hahaha, ooh i see how it is!
May 15 23:49:23 <romainguy> Dougie187: 1 year
May 15 23:49:25 <jasta> morrildl: oh lord no. ;)
May 15 23:49:33 <morrildl> romainguy: oh right yeah, that's the other guys :)
May 15 23:49:46 <romainguy> morrildl: it's the tools guys who live in the French quarter ^^
May 15 23:49:47 <jasta> hey, morrildl, romain said to harrass you about the SDK
May 15 23:49:54 <romainguy> (but there's a French dude in my office)
May 15 23:49:56 <jasta> and always one for blindly following orders, when is the next SD?9$ :)
May 15 23:49:59 <romainguy> (another one at least)
May 15 23:50:01 <jasta> next SDK?*
May 15 23:50:12 <morrildl> don't know yet
May 15 23:50:15 <Dougie187> lol
May 15 23:50:31 <Dougie187> Do you guys write apps for android as well? just to test it out?
May 15 23:50:34 <davidw> romainguy, did you guys figure out if that tmmcray guy was full of it or not wrt his funky 3d graphics processing?
May 15 23:50:44 <morrildl> gotta boogie, folks
May 15 23:50:46 <romainguy> I have no idea, he didn't tell me anything
May 15 23:50:47 <morrildl> time to go home
May 15 23:50:50 <morrildl> catch ya later
May 15 23:50:51 <romainguy> morrildl: slacker
May 15 23:50:51 <jasta> night
May 15 23:50:53 <Dougie187> it is 5 there.
May 15 23:50:54 <davidw> Dougie187, "the weather channel" is really a front for romain and dan
May 15 23:50:54 <Dougie187> heh
May 15 23:51:00 <jerkface03> slack is whack, if you're a teen
May 15 23:54:47 <davidw> sleep time for me...ciao
May 15 23:54:53 <f00f-> cheers
May 16 00:03:14 <Dougie187_> omg i hate windows.
May 16 00:03:43 <Dougie187_> who else hates windows?
May 16 00:03:57 <ligi> Dougie187_: here ^^
May 16 00:04:03 <Dougie187_> heh
May 16 00:04:48 <Dougie187_> it drives me nuts.
May 16 00:05:00 <Dougie187_> my wificard just like bombed out on me and i had to reboot my computer
May 16 00:10:01 <Dougie187_> do any of you know cobol?
May 16 00:10:48 <ligi> herared about this lang
May 16 00:10:53 <ligi> but never used
May 16 00:11:05 <Dougie187_> i know a lot of state jobs want people who know what it is.
May 16 00:11:08 <Dougie187_> but i have never seen it
May 16 00:12:54 <zhobbs> reading android-challenge is kinda sad
May 16 00:13:01 <f00f-> agreed
May 16 00:17:20 <zhobbs> lots and lots of bitching and whining also...
May 16 00:18:01 <zhobbs> everyone was so excited, but only 2.8% of the people can win
May 16 00:18:29 <zhobbs> and the other 97% scream and say the contest was BS
May 16 00:18:56 <f00f-> yeah :(
May 16 00:19:05 * f00f- checks zhobbs's math
May 16 00:19:25 <Dougie187_> lol
May 16 00:19:28 <Dougie187_> its close.
May 16 00:19:31 <jerkface03> zhobbs: how's that money treating you?
May 16 00:19:43 <zhobbs> I didn't get any yet
May 16 00:19:56 <jerkface03> lame
May 16 00:19:57 <zhobbs> I don't get all of it, or even close to all of it
May 16 00:20:06 <jerkface03> whys that?
May 16 00:20:08 <jerkface03> taxes?
May 16 00:20:18 <zhobbs> was a contract gig
May 16 00:20:28 <f00f-> no money has been sent out yet. it was a scam :P
May 16 00:20:29 <zhobbs> got paid hourly, then I get a small cut of winnings
May 16 00:20:34 <zhobbs> hehe
May 16 00:20:51 <f00f-> yeah if you're looking for publicity, this was/is the wya to do it
May 16 00:21:18 <f00f-> we've received a couple of mails from people congratulating us
May 16 00:21:38 <zhobbs> f00f-: which app again?
May 16 00:21:42 <f00f-> a couple of interview requests, the others companies/people that want to partner or sell us something
May 16 00:21:46 <f00f-> pednav
May 16 00:22:43 <zhobbs> that's right
May 16 00:23:50 <zhobbs> f00f-: any OHA members contact you?
May 16 00:24:01 <f00f-> nope
May 16 00:24:22 <f00f-> i'm secretly hoping they will, but not banking on anything
May 16 00:24:33 <f00f-> i myself don't see how the app could make money (besides advertising)
May 16 00:25:24 <f00f-> although, perhaps the contact info hasn't been distributed yet
May 16 00:26:18 <romainguy> f00f-: what is your app?
May 16 00:26:25 <f00f-> romainguy: PedNav
May 16 00:26:33 <f00f-> slide #30 i think
May 16 00:27:20 <Dougie187_> heh
May 16 00:27:22 <Dougie187_> you memorize it.
May 16 00:53:52 <zhobbs> pednav is the 3rd most popular searched phrase on helloandroid
May 16 00:54:13 <zhobbs> probably f00f- trying to find the entry each time
May 16 00:54:26 * duey repeatably searches his project
May 16 00:54:47 <Dougie187_> lol
May 16 00:58:13 <zhobbs> haha, the #1 search phrase is "muthu"
May 16 00:58:35 <Dougie187_> i could see that
May 16 00:58:57 <Dougie187_> does arnt all the posts his?
May 16 00:59:03 <Dougie187_> so why would people search him?
May 16 00:59:07 <zhobbs> no
May 16 00:59:11 <zhobbs> half of them are mine
May 16 00:59:15 <Dougie187_> Ohh ok
May 16 00:59:17 <Dougie187_> lol
May 16 00:59:42 <zhobbs> well, more than half...muthu's only been posted a month or so
May 16 01:05:10 <f00f-> hahhaa
May 16 01:05:21 <f00f-> zhobbs: i try not to create hits for my own app
May 16 01:05:24 <f00f-> it screws our web server stats
May 16 01:05:35 <zhobbs> :)
May 16 01:05:55 <f00f-> so i bet you've received a lot of hits on helloandroid
May 16 01:07:24 <duey> zhobbs: what will be muthu searching for himself
May 16 01:07:52 <duey> is "breaking news" in the top searches?
May 16 01:15:32 <zhobbs> hahah
May 16 01:28:34 <zhobbs> romainguy: any tips on creating a "floating" panel that I could drag around on top of my layout?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 16 02:59:57 2008