**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 21 02:59:56 2008 May 21 12:42:09 Good Morning everyone May 21 12:44:59 aloha Dougie187 May 21 12:45:11 hows it going? May 21 12:45:44 i dont know if anyone knows this off the top of their head. but is there a library that recognizes faxes? May 21 12:46:56 in android? May 21 12:47:09 no, just period May 21 12:47:18 i guess anywhere. May 21 12:47:22 in android would work as well May 21 12:47:27 I have no idea. Google? May 21 12:47:34 yeah i was gonna try that too May 21 12:47:39 i just figured I would ask May 21 12:59:03 i got a cool idea for an android app this morning May 21 12:59:08 but i dont know how realistic it is May 21 13:00:01 Dougie187, lay it on us May 21 13:01:21 well. i thought it would be cool, to get some sort of library that understands faxes. and then in your phone book you can specify phone numbers as faxes. Then when that phone number calls, your phone would answer it as a fax machine, and save the fax as a postscript file to your phone. And potentially email it to yourself if you have it set up as email. May 21 13:01:50 the two concerns I have are the size of the postscript file, and the library May 21 13:01:57 but i think the javacomm api might help May 21 13:02:19 do you think that is a realistic app to write? May 21 13:04:02 I have to question whether people would pay for an extra number just for faxes May 21 13:04:27 I'm not sure if phones can have two lines set for one sim card May 21 13:04:40 faxes are so 1990 May 21 13:04:59 no you wouldnt pay for an extra number. May 21 13:05:07 it would be your cell number. May 21 13:05:25 just when a specific phone number called, it would answer with this app May 21 13:05:39 that way, you can receive faxes on the go, or without a fax machine May 21 13:05:47 so your normal number plus some digits? May 21 13:05:49 you can even make it so it can send a fax. May 21 13:05:55 no. your normal number period. May 21 13:06:04 but in your phone book you would specify a number. May 21 13:06:06 so how would it know if it was supposed to be a fax May 21 13:06:30 in your phone book, you tag something as "Fax Machine" and then when that number calls your cell your fax app answers May 21 13:06:41 and you could do it with multiple numbers. May 21 13:06:44 I see, based on caller id May 21 13:06:46 yeah May 21 13:07:00 that's a good idea May 21 13:07:19 i figured most faxes would send the info as a postscript file. May 21 13:07:26 and i know there are apps to convert ps to pdf. May 21 13:07:30 so i could even probably do that. May 21 13:07:36 so then you would get it as a pdf on your phone May 21 13:08:05 I think that there may be an issue with getting the fax to transmit to your phone though May 21 13:08:19 how come? May 21 13:08:29 i would think there would be a library that can talk to a fax machine somewhere. May 21 13:08:30 I know that you can't hook a fax machine up to a phone service like vonage becasue of the way voip works. May 21 13:08:41 hmm. May 21 13:08:41 ok May 21 13:08:42 I imagine that the cell service would also work a little differently May 21 13:08:52 possibly. i havent every tried it. May 21 13:08:53 no sure though May 21 13:09:14 the javaphone api seems to say it can handle faxes on smartphones though. May 21 13:09:25 http://java.sun.com/products/javaphone/overview.html May 21 13:09:26 sounds like a good idea May 21 13:10:08 i just thought it would be useful for a lot of business people, and anyone who doesnt have a fax machine but has a cell phone May 21 13:10:19 that would be me May 21 13:10:23 heh me too May 21 13:11:05 http://www.interfax.net/en/dev/java.html May 21 13:11:39 looks like they have a service to fax, so if you can't do it on the phone, you could access a service like that May 21 13:11:59 yeah. but i think you have to pay for that. May 21 13:12:07 it would be cooler if it was free. May 21 13:12:58 have you looked at JTAPI May 21 13:13:07 that is used for telephone apps May 21 13:13:15 thats what im looking at now. May 21 13:14:35 heh the only thing im stuck on, is how would i go about testing my app? May 21 13:14:35 lol May 21 13:14:46 very carefully May 21 13:14:47 :-) May 21 13:14:52 since you cant really make calls to your emulator. May 21 13:16:16 I think you would have to try to get it working on a windows box with a modem May 21 13:16:19 make it modular May 21 13:16:26 and wait for hardware. May 21 13:16:36 not to mention an updated sdk. :-) May 21 13:16:39 heh May 21 13:16:40 true May 21 13:16:42 so I'm curious how's the sdk working for ppl so far can it emulate cameras etc? May 21 13:16:59 i couldnt tell you May 21 13:17:07 from what I understand, they are hacking the sdk to use web cams May 21 13:17:33 wow nice May 21 13:17:35 heh May 21 13:18:06 Dougie187, http://members.eunet.at/gernot.kerschbaumer/jtapi/download.html May 21 13:18:25 that may get you started May 21 13:18:34 at least see how it works to come up with a plan May 21 13:18:38 nice thanks May 21 13:19:01 i downloaded the JTAPI documentation and am reading through that as well May 21 13:39:14 curious what does android use for an xserver? May 21 13:50:33 AstainHellbring, I'm not sure, but I believe I read that it was a custom application written by the android company before it was acquired May 21 13:50:54 ahh ic... hmm fun May 21 13:57:26 is jasta in here yet? May 21 14:16:21 * cutmasta is away (away) May 21 14:47:27 its so quiet in here May 21 14:47:28 lol May 21 14:48:43 Dougie187: you haven't signed the NDA yet ,-) May 21 14:48:52 => quiet May 21 14:49:10 true. May 21 14:49:13 have you? May 21 14:49:17 no May 21 14:50:15 are you going to? May 21 14:50:35 i will decide when i can do ^^ May 21 14:50:56 lol May 21 14:51:55 will u? May 21 14:52:16 nice @ http://www.geekz1.com/images//news/olpcv2.jpg May 21 14:52:20 *wannahave* May 21 14:53:15 thats pretty cool. May 21 14:53:22 it is a touch screen keyboard? May 21 14:53:40 both screens May 21 14:53:50 are touch and display May 21 14:59:48 thats awesome. May 21 15:01:27 i bet its going to be more then 200 bucks though May 21 15:05:32 * cutmasta is away (away) May 21 15:10:07 yawn May 21 15:11:13 jasta May 21 15:11:18 did you hear about my new app idea? May 21 15:11:30 no? May 21 15:11:48 you should scroll up and read about it May 21 15:11:57 i have to get ready for work :) May 21 15:12:00 it was at about 9 am. May 21 15:12:01 pfft May 21 15:12:02 work May 21 15:12:25 also. May 21 15:12:26 yeah, my job is stupid like that May 21 15:12:29 i tried to check out your source May 21 15:12:31 and it didnt work May 21 15:12:33 i just got a folder May 21 15:12:35 and nothing in it May 21 15:12:39 on the contrary, you didn't work. May 21 15:12:44 android-five-read-only May 21 15:13:13 there is source in /svn/trunk. May 21 15:13:40 i did this May 21 15:13:41 svn checkout http://android-five.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ android-five-read-only May 21 15:13:50 that's not my project page anymore May 21 15:13:52 from you site. May 21 15:13:53 oh May 21 15:13:58 right on the summary it says to go to five.googlecode.com May 21 15:13:58 whats your project page? May 21 15:14:01 google finally gave it to me May 21 15:14:03 fine. May 21 15:14:14 you should change that May 21 15:14:15 but i haven't deleted android-five yet May 21 15:14:20 so people dont try to check out the source from that May 21 15:14:23 well i did add a link right at the top May 21 15:14:33 i can't change the source page. May 21 15:14:53 why not? May 21 15:15:05 because google code sucks like that May 21 15:15:24 thats too bad May 21 15:16:10 i will just close the project page soonish May 21 15:16:15 ok May 21 15:16:21 well when you get to work i will tell you about my new idea May 21 15:16:24 i think its pretty cool May 21 15:16:41 well, practically speaking, i probably won't leave for another 30 minutes ;) May 21 15:16:48 lol May 21 15:16:50 ok May 21 15:16:53 well you wanna hear about it? May 21 15:17:00 sure May 21 15:17:45 so my idea is basically to make your phone have a fax extension. So you can specify in your phone book that certain numbers are fax machines. Then if that number calls you the app will pick up and receive the fax and save it as a PS file. and possibly convert it to a PDF. Then potentially email you that file. May 21 15:18:01 Also i thought it would be cool to give the app a ps or pdf file and have it send it as a fax to a phone number as well. May 21 15:18:37 there are a lot of problems with that. May 21 15:18:41 like what? May 21 15:19:16 well, are yo utalking about implementing a software modem? May 21 15:19:24 no i was going to use JTAPI May 21 15:19:49 though i dont think it has support for faxes yet. but its supposed to in 2.0 May 21 15:19:51 is that supported by android? May 21 15:19:56 ionno May 21 15:20:01 i just thought of this idea this morning May 21 15:20:14 i think there would be a lot of problems pushing that idea into a real implementation May 21 15:20:14 and have been mostly researching if there was a library that would support receiving faxes May 21 15:20:32 and then, you have to consider that maybe all that work isn't worth being able to receive faxes from arbitrary numbers May 21 15:20:41 because basically faxes are stupid and old ;) May 21 15:20:49 lol but some people need them. May 21 15:20:52 there are websites that do that sort of thing you might build an interace or us some api. May 21 15:20:54 only old people May 21 15:21:07 yeah i saw the websites. but a lot of the websites charge to use their service. May 21 15:21:08 Old people rock. May 21 15:21:10 lol May 21 15:21:18 even though they are old and stupid they are still fairly widely used. May 21 15:21:25 i was sitting next to these two guys in their 60s at lunch the other day May 21 15:21:31 and this would allow people without fax machines, or who are not near a fax machine to receive faxes. May 21 15:21:37 and potentially send faxes as well May 21 15:21:40 and their entire conversation was about how these young guys are coming into their company that don't know shit and bla bla bla May 21 15:21:56 lol May 21 15:22:09 i felt like calling my gf on my cell phone and telling her all about how old people are racist dinosaurs that need to just get the hell out. May 21 15:22:17 just because it would seem like matched biggotry. May 21 15:22:22 lol May 21 15:22:37 i was not offended, because their old and i don't care, but i could have been :) May 21 15:22:54 so you dont think its a useful feature jasta? May 21 15:22:59 i just thought it was odd that they would have that conversation with a 24 year old sitting 3 feet from them May 21 15:23:03 Now that is a broad generalization that could be considered a bit biased. May 21 15:23:20 Dougie187: Well, I can't say that I would use it. In fact, I do everything I can within reason to make sure nobody uses fax machines, for anything. May 21 15:23:29 hah May 21 15:23:29 Assholes come in all ages. May 21 15:23:56 there was at one time a site dedicated to open fax. May 21 15:24:10 i only found one site this morning. May 21 15:24:12 but I only dealt with that a long time ago. May 21 15:24:16 and it was charging for it May 21 15:24:26 plus i thought it would be cool to get it on your phone May 21 15:24:31 that way its like your fax machine May 21 15:24:54 Dougie187: you have to really consider what audience uses faxing heavily versus who would use Android. May 21 15:25:02 business men May 21 15:25:02 i don't think they intersect much. May 21 15:25:09 business men use smart phones May 21 15:25:15 android will run on smart phones May 21 15:25:24 unfortunately there are still people out there that require faxes. May 21 15:25:30 actually, most younger business men use e-mail (with scan to e-mail features of copiers/printers) May 21 15:25:35 Try to buy a house with out having to fax something. May 21 15:25:39 heh yeah May 21 15:25:41 its a pain in the ass May 21 15:25:48 dmoffett: Sure, my brother has done it twice. You just use e-mail. May 21 15:25:50 i had to fax a whole crap load of stuff when we bought my house May 21 15:26:11 When they say "fax this here", you say "Actually, what is their e-mail address?" May 21 15:26:11 depends on the people involved. May 21 15:26:12 what if you have to receive something and they wont email it to you May 21 15:26:41 Hopefully faxes will go away soon. May 21 15:26:48 Dougie187: One of our largest customers, Platt Electric, just recently shut off all their fax machines and said "If you need to fax us something, get a computer and put Outlook on it." May 21 15:26:52 Digital signatures would help a lot. May 21 15:27:36 dmoffett what do you think? May 21 15:27:40 do you think its a useful feature? May 21 15:27:45 and platt is an electrical distributor, so their customers are contractors and stuff. and they refuse faxes. May 21 15:27:51 if that is any indication of the times. May 21 15:27:59 Of course there are a lot people still need to fax. May 21 15:28:03 yes. May 21 15:28:05 ok May 21 15:28:11 yeah, but most of them are old and won't be around for long ;) May 21 15:28:18 lol at least you hope May 21 15:28:21 look at john mccain May 21 15:28:30 no, i am very certain faxing will go. May 21 15:28:37 the telcos don't wish to support it any longer. May 21 15:28:51 since they want their entire business topologies to move to IP telephony. May 21 15:28:52 It will and I hope it is today but that is not reality. May 21 15:29:23 and faxing is the one last beast they can't gracefully convert since it requires a real POTS line. May 21 15:29:26 Pisses me off when I have to fax something but that is the breaks. May 21 15:30:49 lol jasta, this way if you HAVE to receive a fax you dont have to go out and buy a fax machine. May 21 15:30:54 and you can just get it on your cell phone. May 21 15:31:13 well it would be helpful for a rare and declining corner case, sure :) May 21 15:31:24 but that hardly justifies the cost of your time to develop it :) May 21 15:31:37 well its only rare and declining for you. May 21 15:31:41 a lot of people still use it May 21 15:31:46 yep May 21 15:31:49 well, it's only rare for me. May 21 15:31:51 especially as an alternative to mail May 21 15:31:52 it's declining for everyone. May 21 15:33:26 i have used it quite a few times recently May 21 15:34:05 well right, but it was common 15 years ago to find offices that did not have computers or e-mail. May 21 15:34:23 i find it common to find things people wont receive in an email May 21 15:34:26 so you have to fax it or mail it May 21 15:34:31 and i would choose fax rather then mail May 21 15:34:38 like large attachments not well suited for either? :) May 21 15:35:06 lol May 21 15:35:52 fax blows May 21 15:36:04 fax = terrible May 21 15:36:09 i wonder if google uses faxes May 21 15:39:11 Dougie187: here's an idea May 21 15:39:12 I think we all agree that fax blows but so does winders and we have to deal with both. May 21 15:39:26 whats up muthu May 21 15:39:36 Dougie187: i like your fax idea May 21 15:39:41 but what you do is May 21 15:39:48 finally convert it to voice mail May 21 15:40:04 and send them all to Jasta May 21 15:40:07 hah May 21 15:40:17 efax will do all you are wanting with fax May 21 15:40:35 thank you for pointing that out like the 5 other people who did already May 21 15:40:52 yeah, finally to voice May 21 15:40:59 that's the perfect ending! May 21 15:41:12 AstainHellbring: one problem with that, is it costs money. May 21 15:41:28 heh muthu. i dont think people would want to listen to all of their faxes. May 21 15:41:38 do you want a voice mail thats a 36 page fax? May 21 15:41:39 lol May 21 15:41:42 haha May 21 15:41:49 so does having any kind of fax system May 21 15:41:49 though i dont know if you can store a 36 page fax on your cell phone May 21 15:41:59 not my idea May 21 15:42:00 it would be free May 21 15:42:02 ewww fax to voice? May 21 15:42:24 the only point of fax is if you need signed documents in a hurry May 21 15:42:34 yeah May 21 15:42:47 and what if you need a signed document if your not close to a fax machine May 21 15:42:50 and you have your cell on you May 21 15:43:15 fax to email May 21 15:43:26 for free? May 21 15:43:39 fax will always cost something wiether its minutes or anything it will always cost you something May 21 15:43:47 not if its after 7pm May 21 15:43:49 or on the weekends. May 21 15:43:50 you have to have something somewhere that receives the fax and that costs minuts May 21 15:44:14 and what would you rather spend. May 21 15:44:21 a couple of minutes on a fax. May 21 15:44:27 or buying a fax machine and a phone line. May 21 15:44:35 or 17 bucks a month for a web service May 21 15:44:50 buy a pc with fax modems in it, install hylafax and go May 21 15:45:04 far better May 21 15:45:16 i think you are missing the point. May 21 15:45:21 either way. May 21 15:45:26 i think it would end up being useful May 21 15:45:28 for a lot of people. May 21 15:45:57 I must have missed the underling idea too what is it again? May 21 15:46:03 lol May 21 15:46:08 being able to send a simple fax from your phone would come in handy at time. Especially if you can sign right on the phone. May 21 15:46:18 yeah May 21 15:46:22 get like a pdf editor May 21 15:46:26 sign with a stylus May 21 15:46:27 send a fax May 21 15:46:50 AstainHellbring: its basically a fax extension for your phone. it would allow you to receive a fax from specified phone numbers in your phone book, and allow you to send faxes. May 21 15:47:19 how would you get the phone hardware to properly accept it and not just send it out over the speaker? May 21 15:47:27 JTAPI May 21 15:49:31 its basically just in the idea phase right now. I just wanted to see if people thought it would be useful May 21 15:49:41 granted, i thought it would be useful May 21 15:50:10 a couple other people thought it was usefu May 21 15:50:14 useful* May 21 15:50:19 jasta didnt like it but hes a nay-sayer May 21 15:50:22 well, it's your time ;) May 21 15:50:35 lol yeah. now i have two apps to write. May 21 15:50:39 +help you if I can. May 21 15:50:56 though I dont know if I can write my fax program yet. May 21 15:51:01 because i dont think JTAPI handles faxes yet. May 21 15:51:08 not until 2.0, and thats not out yet May 21 15:51:15 or that android supports this API May 21 15:51:22 true May 21 15:51:29 which is probably that it does not May 21 15:51:57 why would it not? May 21 15:52:33 android doesn't support any JSR APIs, IIRC. May 21 15:53:13 also, you could check very easily if there is an implementation in Android or if there is an implementation that could be ported to android May 21 15:53:30 yeah May 21 15:53:42 that was the only thing i had found really this morning. May 21 15:53:43 anyway, off to work May 21 15:53:47 have fun May 21 15:53:58 hopefully we see a new android blog post today explaining that we're all screwed May 21 15:54:08 lol May 21 15:54:11 except for an arbitrary few May 21 15:54:50 50 to be specific May 21 15:55:12 you also have to hope that the underlying device access to the phone devices will be capable of faxing too May 21 15:55:36 There are probably more in the OHA that are allowed access. May 21 16:22:10 Dougie187, it sounds kind of cool May 21 16:22:18 maybe not useful for most people, but really useful for some people May 21 16:22:43 thats what i thought. May 21 16:22:47 thanks May 21 16:22:55 i dont know when i will be able to implement it May 21 16:23:04 because i think it will be a while before JTAPI supports faxes. May 21 16:24:02 and it would provide a free way to fax May 21 16:24:14 so people dont have to use those stupid online fax service providers May 21 16:45:35 does anyone have any experience with VoIP over DSL? May 21 16:46:22 no, and I find it humorous that you're reimplementing telephony over a telephone network May 21 17:23:36 Holy crap... I just slept for 16 straight hours... May 21 17:24:01 Depressed? :) May 21 17:24:08 A little bit May 21 17:24:16 lol May 21 17:24:19 bye all May 21 17:24:22 trigatch4: Me too :) May 21 17:24:25 And after I have a coffee I'm going to be insane with energy May 21 17:24:33 * cutmasta is away (away) May 21 17:24:37 why are you depressed? May 21 17:25:32 i'm sure i'll get over it. May 21 17:25:39 i just poured a lot of energy into Android so far May 21 17:26:01 i was bummed that i didn't win the ADC, but it just seems like they've been piling on the disappointment ever since. May 21 17:26:14 With the SDK thing? May 21 17:26:33 yeah, and just other stuff surrounding it May 21 17:26:55 Sorry dude May 21 17:27:08 The good thing is May 21 17:27:25 The market can prove that the judges were stupid May 21 17:27:32 (or right) May 21 17:27:33 i mean, it's only a little bit depressing. i'll be fine, it's not like my wife left me or something :) May 21 17:27:52 or, even worse, i had a wife. May 21 17:28:02 or even worse, you were married to a judge May 21 17:28:05 who saw your app May 21 17:28:09 and then left you May 21 17:28:19 haha May 21 17:29:14 Theres also a 2nd ADC so, you never know May 21 17:29:21 what do you do as a Full Time job? May 21 17:29:31 lameness May 21 17:29:49 i hate my job, and that's what i meant by other stuff surrounding Android May 21 17:29:59 ever since i got fired up to work on Android, i have become increasingly unhappy at my current job May 21 17:30:05 to the point now where i feel very adrift just sitting here May 21 17:30:21 well, here's a thought, float your resume around and find a new job May 21 17:30:26 work for google! :D May 21 17:30:56 i plan to get a new job, i'm just not sure that the timing is right yet May 21 17:31:25 i feel like if i may miss out on a better opportunity that would come my way *after* my project gets some public attention. May 21 17:31:52 that sentence doesnt make a lot of sense. May 21 17:31:54 yeah. May 21 17:32:14 Have you considered applying for a job at a company that writes mobile software in particular, and see if they have an android strategy? May 21 17:32:20 well, i work on Android very aggressively now because it's basically all i want to work on May 21 17:32:35 if i find some other interesting job it may tug me in that direction and my project probably will be significantly delayed to launch May 21 17:32:54 hey have any of you used Xen versus virtualbox? May 21 17:32:57 so it would screw up my timeline for potentially getting a more exciting opportunity May 21 17:33:31 i dunno, it's just my dismissive thinking because of all this recent disappointment May 21 17:33:40 i'm sure everything will be fine May 21 17:33:53 honestly, waiting for the perfect job to fall into your lap doesn't work well. May 21 17:34:03 nope it doesnt. May 21 17:34:05 I kind of did that at my last job, thinking "it'll get better, I'll find a reason that google will hire me" May 21 17:34:13 then I got sick of it and stuck my resume on monster and dice May 21 17:34:14 lol May 21 17:34:20 within a month I was gone with a 40% rase May 21 17:34:26 30% May 21 17:34:31 raise. May 21 17:37:23 so do any of you know a difference between virtualbox and xen? May 21 17:38:27 i will admit i want to work with android in particular, hopefully at one of the OHA members :) May 21 17:38:41 though, i don't know if that would turn into a conflict of interest with my personal project May 21 17:38:50 Dougie187: sorry, no. May 21 17:38:56 bust. May 21 17:39:02 I've used vmware like once :D May 21 17:39:15 i love vmware :) May 21 17:39:20 i just spent all morning installing vmware May 21 17:39:27 only to find out it was slower then ass on my computer May 21 17:39:28 we have two virtualized servers at work, and i use vmware-player on my desktop. May 21 17:39:30 it was terrible May 21 17:39:37 and i used to use virtualbox and it worked great. May 21 17:39:44 i just figured that vmware would be better. May 21 17:39:47 actually, i have had bad performance problems when using vmware on the same disk as my host OS. May 21 17:40:02 i now buy separate physical disks to support the guest OS, and everything runs *much* faster. May 21 17:40:13 not surprisingly, since disk access is a major bottleneck in modern computers May 21 17:40:18 what about a laptop with one hdd? May 21 17:40:32 oh, well, i wouldn't really think vmware would be a good fit for a laptop anyway May 21 17:40:45 ill stick with virtualbox i think May 21 17:40:47 its easy. May 21 17:40:57 i have not [recently] used vmware on a machine with less than 2GB RAM total May 21 17:41:08 yeah i only have 1GB May 21 17:41:09 total May 21 17:41:12 in my laptop May 21 17:41:17 why are you using a VM on a laptop? May 21 17:41:26 that sounds like you're asking for problems May 21 17:41:42 plus the only 1GB of memory sounds like a great way for performance to be terrible May 21 17:41:54 to have windows. May 21 17:42:02 in case i need it for anything May 21 17:42:08 like small games that dont run in linux. May 21 17:42:12 or different applications May 21 17:42:16 just so i dont have to dual boot May 21 17:43:09 if you require windows for your day-to-day personal computer use, you should probably just put windows on as the main OS May 21 17:43:20 i use vmware at work for Outlook and that's pretty much it. May 21 17:43:25 but certainly nothing at home May 21 17:43:39 i used to do Windows Mobile development, and for that i just had a separate computer entirely on a KVM May 21 17:43:47 I do not require windows very often. May 21 17:43:55 I actually used VMWare a lot at Sun to work on Java SE 6 on my Mac May 21 17:44:01 it worked really well, even on a laptop May 21 17:44:15 for some reason its running like crap on this laptop May 21 17:44:18 but you had a mac... May 21 17:44:37 VMWare also has fusion for macs. and that stuff looks sweet May 21 17:44:50 it's really nice indeed May 21 17:45:07 i wish they would get that out for linux May 21 17:45:43 so you used vmware at sun instead of virtualbox? May 21 17:45:55 that was in 2005/2006 May 21 17:46:11 vmware has done a very good job marketing their products too May 21 17:46:15 Oh ok May 21 17:46:23 before they acquired it. May 21 17:46:32 and before there was a Mac OS X version too :) May 21 17:46:34 offering lots of functionality for free, and then selling corporate support and more advanced products. May 21 17:46:44 I was using Parallels before VMWare May 21 17:46:47 did you use server or player? May 21 17:46:49 but VMWare works much better May 21 17:46:58 Dougie187: neither, the workstation version May 21 17:47:02 oh ok May 21 17:47:07 i had server earlier. May 21 17:47:10 (today) May 21 17:47:14 wait, these are games that you need windows to run May 21 17:47:18 as in don't work adequately w/ wine? May 21 17:47:26 maybe you should just dual boot? :\ May 21 17:47:31 well not just games. May 21 17:47:38 I successfully ran a few games with VMWare May 21 17:47:38 some other apps if i need windows i want to be able to run the apps i need to May 21 17:47:42 Openoffice! :D May 21 17:47:44 but some games dont run in linux. May 21 17:47:49 and i dont want to waste space for dual boot May 21 17:47:50 Max Payne 2 was really smooth on my laptop with VMWare May 21 17:47:50 can games really work in vmware? May 21 17:47:59 i figured advanced 3D acceleration would not work well through vmware May 21 17:48:01 jasta: if they use DirectX 8.1 May 21 17:48:01 jasta: yes. some can May 21 17:48:02 at least, it never did before May 21 17:48:02 yeah, jesus, I can't imagine how bad the performance is w/ vmware May 21 17:48:05 and now some DX 9 work May 21 17:48:12 but it really depends on the game May 21 17:48:15 yeah May 21 17:48:22 but again, I played a few games and they ran really well May 21 17:48:22 lol i doubt you can get crysis to work. May 21 17:48:24 i use cedega (winex) for gaming and it works great. May 21 17:48:25 but i bet thats dx10 May 21 17:48:36 Crysis doesn't even run fine on my 8-cores, 8 GB of RAM MacPro May 21 17:48:38 i have been able to play every game i have wanted to May 21 17:48:39 heh May 21 17:48:40 yeah May 21 17:48:44 its freaking insane. May 21 17:49:19 eitherway. May 21 17:49:22 i had dualboot before. May 21 17:49:36 and i didnt want it. so i did all ubuntu. and now want a vmwareish solution to have windows when i need it May 21 17:50:38 for my day-to-day personal use, i just simply never need windows :) May 21 17:51:01 i dont either. May 21 17:51:04 this is just incase i do May 21 17:51:17 why waste so much time provisioning for that case? :) May 21 17:51:35 because then it wont take so long when i need to use something on it. May 21 17:51:42 like maybe a website that only supports IE. May 21 17:51:50 i could install IE in wine i guess. but this is easier. May 21 17:51:50 lol May 21 17:53:11 yeah, you can run IE7 w/ wine or something May 21 17:54:39 Dougie187, I use virtualbox on a dell d600 from about 2004. 1.6 ghz cpu and 1 gb or ram. I use it to run windows xp in a vm with 512 ram for reason you are describing. It works great May 21 17:55:08 yeah thats what i use to use. May 21 17:55:12 i just figured i would try vmware. May 21 17:55:15 and vmware sucked. May 21 17:55:19 and a friend recommened Xen May 21 17:55:28 so i thought i would see if anyone knew a difference between the two. May 21 17:55:32 vmware works good too, but I think that virtualbox has the advantage for a workstation May 21 17:55:33 but i think im just going to use virtualbox again May 21 17:55:46 I was using vmware server and it has limitations May 21 17:55:56 vmware server was slower that crap on my laptop. May 21 17:55:57 I still use vmware server at work May 21 17:55:58 it sucked. May 21 17:56:10 we have esx servers and I have vmware server installed on my workstation May 21 17:56:19 cool May 21 17:56:22 for me the speed is about the same May 21 17:56:30 vmware is a bitch to setup May 21 17:56:39 that it is May 21 17:56:58 I usually run the latest version of ubuntu and it's common to have to patch header files to install vmware May 21 17:57:14 virtualbox being gpl'd is in the repositories May 21 17:57:19 yeah i found a thread that did vmware. May 21 17:57:26 and it had a script to install it. May 21 17:57:34 took me about 2 hours this morning to get vmware installed. May 21 17:57:36 it sucked. May 21 17:57:40 well, vmware comes with a nice install script May 21 17:57:49 yeah and it errored out every time i used it. May 21 17:58:01 it's just that they don't update it to work with the latest kernels May 21 17:58:13 they are targeted more at enterprise distros May 21 17:58:35 yeah. May 21 17:58:40 either way. im just using virtualbox again. May 21 17:58:53 If anyone got Wii Fit today its going on Ebay for ~130-150 May 21 17:59:11 i still have to go grab my copy later today May 21 17:59:50 wii fit inside you May 21 17:59:55 8===D~~~ May 21 18:00:02 and.... you crossed the line. May 21 18:00:06 good job May 21 18:03:41 hey jasta do you pay for cedega? May 21 18:24:50 WiiFit? May 21 18:24:57 That thing looks absolutely miserable May 21 18:25:07 They could have done SO much more with it May 21 18:25:31 The Balance Board should have come out as a premiere product with the WiiFit being it's first game May 21 18:26:05 They should've done a snowboarding game May 21 18:26:11 I mean, honestly, a Tony Hawk game using the WiiFit Balance Board as your skateboard would be SICK. Same with a snowboarding game. May 21 18:26:20 yeah May 21 18:26:24 trigatch4: it's been announced May 21 18:26:29 it's called Skate It May 21 18:26:33 Really? May 21 18:26:36 EA is doing it May 21 18:26:41 Using the WiiFit Balance Board? May 21 18:26:46 yes May 21 18:27:16 So how do they differentiate? Are they using the "balance board" or the "WiiFit Balance Board" or using the "WiiFit"? May 21 18:27:21 link? May 21 18:27:30 Its not a WiiFit Balance Board. May 21 18:27:35 its the Wii Balance Board May 21 18:27:41 lol May 21 18:27:45 Its basically what you are saying it is. May 21 18:27:52 The balance board is mainly what you are paying for May 21 18:27:55 + you get wii fit with it May 21 18:28:08 which is its first game. May 21 18:28:23 thats like saying you are buying the "Wii Play Remote" May 21 18:28:48 alright gotchya May 21 18:28:55 well then i don't think they marketed it properly May 21 18:29:14 trigatch4: except they are selling millions of it... May 21 18:29:18 because i've kind of followed the wiifit since they announced it in like december May 21 18:29:21 you're just not the target (yet) May 21 18:29:53 yeah its all sold out. May 21 18:29:54 lol May 21 18:30:02 i think they marketed it pretty well May 21 18:30:19 they never really advertised the fact that you can do more with the balance board when it comes out. May 21 18:30:29 but thats just to your imagination. May 21 18:30:33 its basically another controller. May 21 18:31:42 Hey romainguy_ do you use faxes? heh May 21 18:31:56 all the time May 21 18:31:58 stupid visa @!# May 21 18:32:05 Do you know if Android will support JTAPI? May 21 18:32:13 I have no idea May 21 18:32:31 because i had an idea for an app this morning. to allow your cell to receive and send faxes. May 21 18:32:40 to and from a file. May 21 18:33:05 and JTAPI will support sending and receiving faxes in the future. May 21 18:35:17 do you think that would be useful? May 21 18:44:11 Dougie187: yes, i do pay for cedega May 21 18:44:19 Oh ok May 21 18:44:49 what kinda games do you play in it? May 21 18:51:07 most recently, I was playing a lot of WarCraft III, Half-Life 2, and Heroes of Might and Magic 5. May 21 18:51:41 i'd say bloody gory games are good stress relievers May 21 18:51:49 except the high last for only a few minutes, for me May 21 18:52:23 Grr. I wish there was a way to broadcast synchronously, so that I can do unit tests involving broadcasts more easily. May 21 18:52:52 i think i might have to install warcraft 3 soon May 21 18:52:57 so i can get some DOTA going down May 21 18:53:33 i love dota. that game is so fun May 21 18:53:34 lol May 21 18:53:39 anyways. its time to go pick up wii fit May 21 18:53:45 see you guys later. May 21 18:54:12 lol, i play a lot of dota ;) May 21 19:10:10 i'm surprised taht blog post jason was referring to yesterday hasn't come yet. May 21 19:10:16 i figured they'd want to respond to this relatively quickly. May 21 19:33:05 Hey Douigie187 you around? May 21 19:39:24 /names May 21 19:39:25 he is not around May 21 19:44:01 f00f-: have you guys received the new SDK already or are they still going to make you wait? :) May 21 19:48:04 jasta: wednesday at the earliest May 21 19:48:12 had sign a bunch of stuff and drop it in the mail May 21 19:48:26 well wednesday i guess more info May 21 19:48:29 not sure about when we get it :/ May 21 19:49:25 I wonder how you guys can report bugs under the NDA May 21 19:49:52 maybe we'll be emailing you directly romain :P May 21 19:50:05 Sure you can :) May 21 19:50:27 Now, getting your email to be read is another matter ;) May 21 19:50:44 hehe May 21 20:49:06 i'm really curious what they will do here May 21 21:01:17 Hopefully the delay is Google getting their ducks in a row for releasing the SDK to all of us. May 21 21:01:46 that scared them off. :-) May 21 21:04:12 dmoffett: i honestly doubt it :( May 21 21:04:48 jasta: right you are. :-) May 21 21:08:54 i bet theyre just trying to figure out if they should extend the NDA offer to the top x winners of the ADC, which has a host of other problems May 21 21:09:04 like, revealing who the top x winners were :) May 21 21:09:08 and choosing x. May 21 21:12:10 hey dan, how's it going? >:) May 21 21:29:00 hehe May 21 21:29:11 it's like he has a trigger May 21 22:01:21 ahahahahha May 21 22:02:09 jasta, he's probably taken to drinking heavily with all the people hassling him;-) May 21 22:10:12 i would not want his job ;) May 21 22:16:11 i'd take his alcohol though May 21 22:46:13 man wii fit is cool May 21 22:46:59 are you fit now? May 21 22:47:08 lose some weight dougie May 21 22:47:24 im trying. May 21 22:47:25 lol May 21 22:47:30 i dont need to lose weight. May 21 22:47:33 i need to gain weight May 21 22:47:59 the yoga is really cool so far May 21 22:52:56 whatever fatty May 21 22:53:21 Dougie187: did you buy it? how many bills? May 21 22:53:31 it looks like it'll be atleast 1.5 May 21 22:53:41 its 90 bucks May 21 22:54:28 Dougie187: does it say how much weight it can support? May 21 22:54:43 330 lbs May 21 22:55:08 lol they increased it from the japan release May 21 22:55:24 i can imagine May 21 22:55:30 most americans are fattyboombas May 21 22:55:33 yeah May 21 22:55:34 lol May 21 22:55:36 too much mcdonalds May 21 22:55:37 japan was 299 May 21 22:55:47 true. May 21 22:55:52 mcdonalds is so gross though May 21 22:55:58 i hate eating it May 21 22:56:09 i just had baja fresh folks May 21 22:56:10 i'm stuffed May 21 22:56:12 it tastes ok, i get a bad case of the shits whenever i eat it tho May 21 22:56:13 and full of water May 21 22:56:15 that stuff is good May 21 22:56:21 i love baja fresh May 21 22:56:26 i like Moes more though. May 21 22:56:33 and Qdoba May 21 22:56:36 it's slow fast food May 21 22:56:42 semi-fast food May 21 22:56:42 lol May 21 22:56:43 never heard of those, like moe's bar? May 21 22:56:50 lol no. not quite May 21 22:57:01 http://www.moes.com/ May 21 22:57:04 but most of all, i like chipotle also May 21 22:57:06 big portions tho May 21 22:57:35 yeah May 21 22:57:50 not bad May 21 22:57:53 looks nice May 21 22:58:00 its awesome May 21 22:58:04 i love it May 21 22:58:10 brb May 21 23:00:35 i need an exercisve app for android May 21 23:00:40 like Nokia Sports Tracker May 21 23:00:59 WTF IS this disk activity about May 21 23:02:34 NTFS is indexing your pornographic vidoes for faster access times May 21 23:03:25 there is no porn on here May 21 23:04:03 you were right May 21 23:04:04 indexing May 21 23:04:09 indexing porno May 21 23:04:11 but not OS or NTFS May 21 23:15:50 man. wii fit is cool May 21 23:15:51 lol May 21 23:15:53 you guys should get it May 21 23:33:16 i should get a wii May 21 23:33:23 i'd do more android coding May 21 23:33:33 man, i am dozing off May 21 23:33:38 huh hows that make sense? May 21 23:33:39 severe fod comar May 21 23:35:11 the wii is really cool. May 21 23:35:15 i enjoy it f00f- May 21 23:35:52 you're obese, so i guess they make it fun to lose weight? May 21 23:36:02 i am joking May 21 23:36:19 i guess it's more interactiive May 21 23:36:27 i don't think there's a person in this channel who isn't over 200 lbs May 21 23:36:30 i dont like punching on a controller key pad May 21 23:36:45 so... what are ya saying buddy? May 21 23:36:47 <--- is not even 150. May 21 23:38:00 je pense qu'il ny a personne qui pese plus de 200 lebros May 21 23:38:18 and... i dont know what you just said. May 21 23:38:59 he just admitted he's a fatty in french May 21 23:39:05 oh ok May 21 23:39:13 je es tres tres grande May 21 23:39:15 or whatever May 21 23:39:21 i don't remember any french from highschool May 21 23:39:32 s/je/tu May 21 23:39:37 tu means you, right? May 21 23:39:41 hahaha May 21 23:39:43 yes May 21 23:41:27 jerkface03: graduated from high school or college in 2003? May 21 23:42:16 le guy du romain May 21 23:43:27 that doesn't mean anything :p May 21 23:44:30 i'm surprised i can still kind of talk/understand french May 21 23:44:34 yeah i know :) May 21 23:44:47 i really should get back into it May 22 00:50:07 one of my high school friends can now speak french fluently May 22 00:50:45 and apparently she absorbed the culture well, because she blogs in it and sets her facebook status and such to French despite the majority of her friends not speaking it at all May 22 00:51:00 ;) May 22 01:40:01 hey, i want to change text in textview (tv defined in xml layout) but when i do setText anu text dissapears:( is there any way to change text? May 22 01:40:41 android:layout_width="fill_parent" May 22 01:40:41 android:layout_height="wrap_content" May 22 01:40:41 android:id="@+id/class_two_role_text"/> May 22 01:40:46 it is May 22 01:41:12 Yes, call setText() May 22 01:41:28 ... when i do setText anu text dissapears:( ... May 22 01:41:38 *any May 22 01:41:40 how do you call setText()? May 22 01:41:59 TextView classOneRoleText = (TextView) findViewById(R.id.class_one_role_text); May 22 01:41:59 classOneRoleText.setText("Class "+class1.getName()+" role:"); May 22 01:43:07 Have you checked if there's any exception in logcat? May 22 01:53:54 yay! May 22 01:54:00 boo May 22 01:54:19 so...)))) May 22 01:54:24 it's funny May 22 01:56:45 problemm reason : i already have global field called classOneRoleText, but after doing TextView classOneRoleText = (TextView) findViewById(R.id.class_one_role_text); ...in onCreate - it's ok) but if i write this string in other method (method called from onCreate) any text dissapears May 22 01:56:59 just magic?) May 22 01:57:26 oh... 24h without sleeping its cruelly May 22 01:57:27 ) May 22 02:45:37 howdy May 22 02:46:30 quiet May 22 02:51:38 real quiet] May 22 02:57:12 real real quiet **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 22 02:59:57 2008