**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 27 02:59:56 2008
May 27 04:34:54 <tobe002> hi
May 27 05:23:42 <cutmasta> mornin
May 27 05:23:44 <cutmasta> all
May 27 06:27:04 <f00f-> no coding at all! :(((((((((((((((((
May 27 06:27:15 <jerkface03> lol wat?
May 27 06:27:24 <f00f-> haven't done a lick of coding for android
May 27 06:27:28 <f00f-> i am so lagging
May 27 06:27:40 <jerkface03> get busy then?
May 27 06:27:42 <jerkface03> chop chop!
May 27 06:27:55 <jerkface03> post haste!
May 27 06:27:57 <f00f-> well... waiting for new sdk to drop
May 27 06:28:05 <jerkface03> don't hold your breath
May 27 06:28:08 <f00f-> working on back end i guess
May 27 06:28:29 <f00f-> i guess i know how i'm spending part of the prize
May 27 06:28:38 <jerkface03> how?
May 27 06:28:44 <f00f-> just booked a flight to amsterdam, gonna be attending a conference
May 27 06:28:47 <f00f-> about LBS
May 27 06:28:52 <jerkface03> lame.
May 27 06:29:55 <f00f-> i certainly hope not!
May 27 06:30:17 <jerkface03> you need to do something better with that cash money
May 27 06:30:30 <f00f-> i'm open to suggestions
May 27 06:30:51 <jerkface03> punch someone in the mouth, and then use the money to pay off the medical bills they sue you for as a result of your punch in the mouth
May 27 06:30:58 <jerkface03> atleast you'll be able to tell your friends you punched someone in the mouth
May 27 06:31:11 <f00f-> i can do that without the money
May 27 06:31:14 <f00f-> just put on a mask
May 27 06:31:15 <f00f-> done/done
May 27 06:31:20 <jerkface03> touche.
May 27 06:31:54 <jerkface03> get it converted to pennies, and throw the pennies at people as you drive around town
May 27 06:31:58 <jerkface03> that's also an option
May 27 06:32:05 <f00f-> i'd be like an old grandma!
May 27 06:32:18 <jerkface03> then when someone runs up to you and punches you in the mouth, you can sue them to get even more pennies
May 27 06:49:16 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 27 07:01:20 <jasta> romain?
May 27 07:01:27 <jasta> ircing from france? :)
May 27 07:01:43 <duey> I didn't know they hard irc in france ;)
May 27 07:02:38 <jasta> he's taking a serious risk ;)
May 27 07:04:22 <f00f-> uh oh! :P
May 27 07:04:28 <f00f-> yeah just minitel from back in the days
May 27 07:04:51 <f00f-> so is everyone EXCITED for I/O ?!
May 27 07:05:00 <duey> yeah i would be if i was going
May 27 07:05:18 <raboof> I/O is some sort of google conference?
May 27 07:05:27 <duey> ya
May 27 11:46:46 <volmarias> Good morning everyone
May 27 12:04:14 <Dougie187> morning everyone.
May 27 13:03:54 <Dougie187> how was everyone's 3 day weekend?
May 27 13:04:32 <volmarias> pretty nice
May 27 13:04:35 <volmarias> went camping
May 27 13:04:47 <volmarias> relearned that I get horrible allergies for like 2 weeks of spring
May 27 13:05:03 <Dougie187> lol i get horrible allergies for like 6 months of the yar.
May 27 13:05:04 <Dougie187> year
May 27 13:06:22 <buster_> hi guys. how would you search and display restaurants (etc.) on android? :o
May 27 13:06:47 <buster_> is there something like that in the api?
May 27 13:06:57 <Dougie187> i dont know. probably?
May 27 13:07:07 <Dougie187> you can possibly look into how the maps app works.
May 27 13:07:09 <Dougie187> but im not sure.
May 27 13:07:34 <buster_> mh
May 27 13:13:21 <volmarias> I'm pretty sure there isn't anything built in for POI
May 27 13:13:38 <buster_> damn :(
May 27 13:13:43 <volmarias> driving directions are exposed through an interface that probably won't be public in the next release for that matter
May 27 13:13:58 <buster_> so i'll need to query some google or yahoo webservice or something like that
May 27 13:15:45 <volmarias> probably.
May 27 13:16:19 <volmarias> POI stuff is part of the meat & potatos of most personal navigation companies (the other half is directions/routing)
May 27 13:16:24 <volmarias> so it maty not be easy
May 27 13:17:14 <buster_> well, its what google maps already offers
May 27 13:17:24 <buster_> enter pizza, and it will find some restaurants
May 27 13:17:28 <buster_> etc.
May 27 13:23:16 <volmarias> right
May 27 13:23:21 <volmarias> but you can't access that programatically
May 27 13:23:24 <volmarias> afaik
May 27 13:27:54 <muthu> mornin droids
May 27 13:32:37 <Dougie187> hows it going muthu?
May 27 13:32:43 <muthu> Dougie187: great
May 27 13:32:56 <Dougie187> nice
May 27 13:33:02 <Dougie187> you get your money yet?
May 27 13:33:11 <muthu> no.. its a long paperwork
May 27 13:33:17 <muthu> and confusing
May 27 13:33:19 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 13:33:23 <Dougie187> thats too bad
May 27 13:33:34 <muthu> especially when you are a foreigner
May 27 13:33:40 <Dougie187> yeah
May 27 13:33:43 <muthu> will get some details at IO
May 27 13:34:03 <Dougie187> isnt that tomorrow?
May 27 13:34:34 <muthu> yeah
May 27 13:34:48 <Dougie187> so does that mean your in cali now?
May 27 13:34:54 <muthu> yup
May 27 13:34:59 <Dougie187> ohh cool
May 27 13:35:03 <muthu> :)
May 27 13:35:17 <Dougie187> how long was the flight?
May 27 13:35:21 <muthu> oh boy
May 27 13:35:33 <muthu> i took the longest possible flight
May 27 13:35:45 <muthu> chennai - malaysia - hongkong - sf
May 27 13:36:02 <muthu> and a 6 hr waiting in malaysia
May 27 13:36:18 <muthu> it added up to like 26 hrs!!
May 27 13:36:19 <Dougie187> i would think it would have taken longer if you went through england or something and then went all the way across the us
May 27 13:36:21 <Dougie187> but iono
May 27 13:36:29 <Dougie187> thats insane.
May 27 13:36:33 <Dougie187> i bet you were dead when you got in
May 27 13:36:37 <muthu> yeah, across europe is longer
May 27 13:36:50 <muthu> Dougie187: yeah, almost and then you face immigration!
May 27 13:36:58 <Dougie187> hah yeah
May 27 13:37:06 <Dougie187> those guys are bastards huh?
May 27 13:37:11 <muthu> haha
May 27 13:37:21 <muthu> depends on who you get..
May 27 13:37:29 <muthu> and how prepared you are
May 27 13:37:44 <Dougie187> hopefully you didnt get a red neck immigration person
May 27 13:37:51 <Dougie187> i think they would be the worst.
May 27 13:38:22 <muthu> haha
May 27 13:38:36 <muthu> have been here for sometime
May 27 13:38:56 <muthu> and seen many kinds.. but i like US
May 27 13:39:02 <muthu> its a great country
May 27 13:39:04 <Dougie187> thats good.
May 27 13:39:10 <Dougie187> i enjoy it here as well.
May 27 13:39:28 <Dougie187> though i like somethings more than others, as with most people here.
May 27 13:39:28 <muthu> you in florida, right?
May 27 13:39:30 <Dougie187> but thats alright
May 27 13:39:32 <Dougie187> yup
May 27 13:39:40 <muthu> are you coming to IO?
May 27 13:39:44 <Dougie187> are you use to the time change?
May 27 13:39:45 <Dougie187> nope.
May 27 13:39:51 <muthu> ha come on
May 27 13:39:55 <muthu> would be nice to meet you
May 27 13:40:02 <Dougie187> yeah it would be cool to go.
May 27 13:40:05 <Dougie187> but i cant make it
May 27 13:40:10 <Dougie187> too much stuff to do here.
May 27 13:40:21 <muthu> ok
May 27 13:40:41 <Dougie187> hah i dont know if you heard, but 2 days after i got my laptop back it broke again.
May 27 13:40:48 <Dougie187> they shipped it back with a faulty hard drive
May 27 13:41:02 <muthu> oh shit
May 27 13:41:10 <muthu> terrible
May 27 13:41:17 <Dougie187> yup
May 27 13:41:19 <muthu> you should've asked for a new one
May 27 13:41:56 <Dougie187> i will if its broken when they send it back this time
May 27 13:44:25 <Dougie187> so what are you doing until io?
May 27 13:58:54 <Dougie187> muthu: what are you doing until I/O then?
May 27 14:04:24 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 27 15:05:00 <jasta> son of a bitch
May 27 15:05:36 <jasta> i sent my boss an e-mail telling her i'd be fairly late and may just work from home
May 27 15:06:29 <jasta> and she responded thinking i was on vacation Tuesday as well, not just Wed/Thu
May 27 15:06:51 <jasta> i should've checked the calendar and just ran with it :)
May 27 15:47:10 <hagna> anyone try the iphone sdk and move to android instead?
May 27 15:47:40 <hagna> even though the hardware doesn't exist
May 27 15:48:12 <jasta> most of us here adopted Android much before the iPhone SDK was released
May 27 15:48:34 <jasta> and were invested enough not to care too much about the iPhone SDK.
May 27 15:50:20 <hagna> hmm if someone started caring about the iPhone SDK would you try to correct him or her?
May 27 15:51:47 <jasta> not at all, as i said, many of us have not expored it much and so it would be wrong for us to advise anyone else about it.
May 27 15:52:14 <jasta> though i would caution you to carefully read the license agreement and details.  i have heard that there are evil things lurking there.
May 27 15:52:34 <hagna> guts say go with android sdk
May 27 15:52:56 <hagna> and I don't even know it that well
May 27 15:53:01 <jasta> i would caution you away from adopting the Android SDK at this time, however.
May 27 15:53:32 <hagna> jasta: because it is going to change or why?
May 27 15:53:35 <jasta> Google is set to make an announcement soon that will clarify the long-term release strategy for the SDK, but at present what we know is that Google will not be making updates until handset launch later this year.
May 27 15:53:51 <jasta> And already the latest SDK release is very old (3+ months, with numerous undocumented bugs)
May 27 15:54:13 <hagna> jasta: so what does that imply?
May 27 15:54:15 <jasta> This strategy has obviously confused and upset many developers, but Google seems unwilling to budge citing various legal challenges.
May 27 15:54:39 <jasta> Like I said, they are set to make an announcement this week, so perhaps you can base your opinion on that information once released.
May 27 15:55:15 <jasta> hagna: The winners of the Android Developer Challenge have been offered an NDA which will allow them access to new SDK versions with bug fixes, new APIs, etc.
May 27 15:55:22 <jasta> The general public, however, is not going to get those updates.
May 27 15:55:40 <jasta> So now would be a bad time to adopt Android as a developer.  It would seem wise to wait until handset launch later this year.
May 27 15:56:03 <hagna> jasta: ok that's interesting
May 27 15:56:51 <jasta> It's less interesting and more infuriating, if you ask me.
May 27 15:57:08 <hagna> jasta: later this year isn't too bad we're already half way through
May 27 15:57:21 <jasta> Last week Google seemed to acknowledge our frustrations and at least confirmed they would make an announcement clarifying the situation
May 27 15:58:09 <hagna> on the android blog
May 27 15:58:50 <jasta> hagna: Look at the opposite end of the timeline.  Handset launch is not expected before the ADC ends, which is some time in August.  And Google thus far has not been good about hitting their target dates for the ADC
May 27 15:58:54 <jasta> so I bet it slips much further than that.
May 27 15:59:21 <jasta> Given that, the last SDK release was made early February.  So that would be 7 months between last release and the next one at a minimum.
May 27 15:59:22 <hagna> jasta: oh yeah probably
May 27 15:59:35 <michaelnovakjr__> howdy
May 27 15:59:38 <jasta> Prior to that, Android had only been out for about 5 months.
May 27 16:00:17 <jasta> hagna: So it's really as though Android has been unreleased.
May 27 16:00:35 <hagna> jasta: weird
May 27 16:00:45 <jasta> Given that the window between the current release and next one is wider than the availability of Android thus far.
May 27 16:00:53 <michaelnovakjr__> its a good thing there's been an sdk update ;)
May 27 16:01:22 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: ?
May 27 16:01:31 <michaelnovakjr__> very sarcastic
May 27 16:01:47 <jasta> hagna: But I would not count them out until after this announcement, which has been confirmed to appear today.
May 27 16:01:56 <jasta> Though again, the Android team is terrible with hitting their target :)
May 27 16:02:41 <jasta> If history is any measure, I'd bet the "second half of 2008" will land very late in the year: Nov or Dec.
May 27 16:02:47 <jasta> If it even lands in 2008 at all.
May 27 16:02:56 <michaelnovakjr__> the whole android experience has been heading south recently
May 27 16:03:15 <jasta> Agreed.  I'm really going to kidnap Dan.
May 27 16:03:29 <michaelnovakjr__> i probably won't mess around with it any more until the source comes out
May 27 16:04:12 <jasta> You mean the 70% of the source that is expected to be released?
May 27 16:04:41 <michaelnovakjr__> my sprint service sucks badly
May 27 16:04:43 <jasta> There's that large 3 million line long chunk we'll be missing.
May 27 16:04:57 <michaelnovakjr__> i might just be leaning towards an iphone in june
May 27 16:05:19 <michaelnovakjr__> that is a shit load of code
May 27 16:05:21 <jasta> Sprint is awful.  I will only use Android if I can "unlock it" and use it on AT&T.
May 27 16:05:42 <jasta> Which up until recently I had assumed would not be a problem.
May 27 16:05:57 <jasta> Considering HTC's history of making quad-band world phones, and Android's alleged commitment to openness.
May 27 16:06:04 <michaelnovakjr__> this whole thing is a joke
May 27 16:06:15 <michaelnovakjr__> i have my doubts it will ever reach consumers
May 27 16:06:17 <jasta> However as of late I am willing to bet that any hope or assumption I have not explicitly confirmed is wrong.
May 27 16:08:01 <jasta> I don't doubt that it will reach consumers, I just think it will be very late and disappointingly closed.
May 27 16:08:29 <michaelnovakjr__> i hate cellphones
May 27 16:08:37 <jasta> I am reasonably certain that those 3 million lines of closed code include absolutely everything relating to mobile technology.
May 27 16:08:56 <jasta> the radio stack, chipset drivers, etc.
May 27 16:08:57 <michaelnovakjr__> of course :)
May 27 16:09:15 <jasta> so essentially what we get open sourced is an application framework.  very exciting.
May 27 16:09:34 <jasta> oh yeah, </sarcasm>
May 27 16:10:13 <jasta> i would otherwise hope that this would spark an initiative to reverse engineer many of these closed source pieces to further expand the platform, but i doubt that will happen.
May 27 16:10:19 <michaelnovakjr__> so much for the OHA
May 27 16:10:21 <jasta> mostly because Google has pissed off enthusiasts.
May 27 16:10:56 <michaelnovakjr__> Overly Hoarding Assholes
May 27 16:11:12 <michaelnovakjr__> that is the new meaning of OHA
May 27 16:11:55 <jasta> there's somethign to be said for our own naivety, though :)
May 27 16:12:31 <michaelnovakjr__> yea
May 27 16:12:36 <michaelnovakjr__> agreed
May 27 16:12:44 <jasta> i mean, why did we expect that this platform would be open?  because a company said it would be?
May 27 16:13:21 <michaelnovakjr__> and why did we waste our time writing apps for it when in the end the result is nowhere near the expectation
May 27 16:13:24 <jasta> that is generally insufficient to convince me.  that Google said it permitted an invalid assumption to continue.
May 27 16:13:41 <jasta> which is my fault, honestly.
May 27 16:13:52 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't looked at any code for android in two weeks
May 27 16:13:57 <jasta> me neither
May 27 16:14:15 <michaelnovakjr__> and at this point i really don't care to
May 27 16:14:29 <jasta> i do generally think that Android will remain one of the most pleasant platforms to develop against
May 27 16:14:44 <jasta> and that will certain please developers in the mobile industry.
May 27 16:15:08 <michaelnovakjr__> i'll have something to say about that after i attempt an iPhone app
May 27 16:15:08 <jasta> but i was attracted to Android for what it represented: as a way to truly change the mobile industry.
May 27 16:15:11 <jasta> it isn't going to be that.
May 27 16:15:14 <michaelnovakjr__> not at all
May 27 16:15:33 <jasta> it's a way to neatly file in line in the mobile industry, from the looks of it.
May 27 16:16:32 <jasta> oh well, like i said, our naivety can not be blamed on Google :)
May 27 16:16:47 <michaelnovakjr__> true
May 27 16:17:46 <jasta> so, Google I/O should be fun btw ;)
May 27 16:17:56 <jasta> especially if Google ends up not making an announcement today to clarify all this.
May 27 16:18:23 <jasta> i'll happily explain it to anyone at the conference;)
May 27 16:20:47 <jasta> actually, i say that because i'm angry and frustrated.  the reality is that i will just be drunk for the 3 days i'm in san francisco so i won't much care :)
May 27 16:31:25 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, exactly.... it'll take lots of proof for me to start coding for android again....
May 27 16:31:26 <michaelnovakjr__> be back
May 27 16:48:47 <Dougie187> look whos back. michaelnovakjr__.
May 27 16:50:58 <Dougie187> Hows it going jasta?
May 27 17:03:39 <michaelnovakjr__> hey Dougie187
May 27 17:04:19 <michaelnovakjr__> i chipped the rust off my halo playing
May 27 17:04:27 <michaelnovakjr__> back to not so crappy :)
May 27 17:16:57 <Dougie187> Haha
May 27 17:17:02 <Dougie187> thats pretty good
May 27 17:17:07 <Dougie187> youve been gone for a while.
May 27 17:32:58 <jasta> back, had to get my tire replaced
May 27 17:33:12 <Dougie187> you pumped for I/O jasta?
May 27 17:33:16 <michaelnovakjr__> that must have been exciting!
May 27 17:33:26 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah, but perhaps not for the right reasons
May 27 17:33:32 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 17:33:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i am sick of android
May 27 17:33:41 <jasta> i am looking forward to hearing the talk from the Dalvik guy
May 27 17:33:44 <Dougie187> since that statement hasnt been released yet.
May 27 17:33:51 <jasta> and drinking, that will be fun
May 27 17:34:14 <jasta> i also am excited to learn about the Google Web Toolkit
May 27 17:34:21 <jasta> and Gears
May 27 17:34:30 <Dougie187> but mostly the drinking?
May 27 17:34:35 <jasta> but mostly the drinking, yes ;)
May 27 17:34:39 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 17:34:44 <michaelnovakjr__> GWT is ok
May 27 17:34:53 <michaelnovakjr__> i use it a little bit at work
May 27 17:36:58 <jasta> Dougie187: i don't expect the announcement.
May 27 17:37:11 <michaelnovakjr__> what announcement?
May 27 17:37:15 <Dougie187> well. he said latest would be today EOD
May 27 17:37:20 <jasta> that google promised us.
May 27 17:37:29 <michaelnovakjr__> oh 'the' announcement?
May 27 17:37:46 <Dougie187> yeah
May 27 17:37:52 <Dougie187> 'the' announcement
May 27 17:38:02 <michaelnovakjr__> what are we expecting 'the' announcement to say?
May 27 17:38:11 <jasta> even if they say anything at all today, i expect it will be disingenuous
May 27 17:38:34 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: i have absolutely no idea what it will actually say.
May 27 17:38:50 <jasta> i hope it would say "oops, we suck, we will still make bugfix and API changing releases to the public, sorry"
May 27 17:38:53 <jasta> but it won't say that.
May 27 17:39:20 <Dougie187> lol michaelnovakjr__ do you know what the announcement is concerning?
May 27 17:39:27 <michaelnovakjr__> what if it just says the sky is blue, and its may and oh by the way.... we lost the source code to the sdk so we are starting over :)
May 27 17:39:30 <Dougie187> you have been gone quite a while.
May 27 17:39:53 <Dougie187> you may not have heard.
May 27 17:40:02 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187, not a clue that is why i asked what it is about
May 27 17:40:08 <Dougie187> haha
May 27 17:40:08 <Dougie187> well
May 27 17:40:12 <michaelnovakjr__> i have been out of the loop :)
May 27 17:40:18 <Dougie187> id say last week it came out, but it might have been the week before.
May 27 17:40:50 <Dougie187> it was leaked that google was not going to release a new public SDK for a couple months. But the winners of Round 1 ADC1 could sign an NDA and get access to it.
May 27 17:41:03 <jasta> several months, were their words.
May 27 17:41:07 <Dougie187> a lot of us were complaining.
May 27 17:41:16 <jasta> couple is 2, several is 4 or more ;)
May 27 17:41:17 <michaelnovakjr__> wow, they are still doing damage control for that lousy piece of shit comment
May 27 17:41:23 <michaelnovakjr__> i remember that
May 27 17:41:32 <Dougie187> well it was true.
May 27 17:41:37 <Dougie187> as well. they confirmed it.
May 27 17:41:43 <jasta> i called Dan an asshat hehe
May 27 17:41:50 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
May 27 17:42:06 <michaelnovakjr__> if i were a winner i would turn around and publicly release it myself
May 27 17:42:10 <Dougie187> and we are waiting to hear what the public can do to get into the SDK becuase it doesnt make any sense to allow 50 people access but noone else because it is "buggy and incomplete"
May 27 17:42:11 <michaelnovakjr__> under a different name
May 27 17:42:20 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: that's pretty serious business.
May 27 17:42:23 <jasta> i would not do that, for sure.
May 27 17:42:28 <Dougie187> totally.
May 27 17:42:32 <Dougie187> youd have the whole OHA on your ass
May 27 17:42:33 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 17:42:37 <jasta> NDAs are legally enforcable with serious penalty.
May 27 17:42:50 <Dougie187> for sure you would be stripped of your prize money.
May 27 17:42:56 <jasta> yeah
May 27 17:43:05 <michaelnovakjr__> unless they checksum every copy how will they know where it came from
May 27 17:43:16 <jasta> they very probably do signature each version they send.
May 27 17:43:21 <jasta> making it easy to trace.
May 27 17:43:25 <Dougie187> they only have to keep track of 50.
May 27 17:43:28 <michaelnovakjr__> that seems like a lot of work
May 27 17:43:31 <Dougie187> + the ones they give to the OHA
May 27 17:43:40 <michaelnovakjr__> for what will be the 'open source android platform'
May 27 17:43:52 <Dougie187> well its not going to be open source for some time.
May 27 17:43:54 <michaelnovakjr__> fsck them
May 27 17:43:55 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: not really.  honestly, making a signature on something like that would be really easy
May 27 17:43:58 <Dougie187> not until handsets are released.
May 27 17:43:59 <raboof> feh, wasn't the open-source thing supposed to prevent all of this weirdness? :)
May 27 17:44:06 <jasta> just tack on some extra noise in the build system
May 27 17:44:21 <jasta> raboof: android isn't open source, and it has been confirmed that large portions of it will never be open sourced.
May 27 17:44:22 <Dougie187> haha its already buggy.
May 27 17:44:28 <michaelnovakjr__> reverse engineer that
May 27 17:44:31 <Dougie187> jasta they  can incorporate random bugs.
May 27 17:44:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i think it is all a waste of time
May 27 17:44:55 <michaelnovakjr__> google has totally dropped the ball on this one
May 27 17:45:01 <Dougie187> one little thing some people have though of michaelnovakjr__ is that the teams that sign the NDA can have an unlimited number of people attached to it.
May 27 17:45:26 <michaelnovakjr__> that is pretty lame
May 27 17:45:33 <Dougie187> We did hear that the main reason for the NDA was because some OHA members have some features in the SDK they dont want to public to know about.
May 27 17:45:39 <raboof> michaelnovakjr__: well, it's hard to get right
May 27 17:45:59 <michaelnovakjr__> google can stick that sdk where the sun don't shine
May 27 17:46:00 <jasta> Dougie187: that is one point i am hoping the announcement will clarify
May 27 17:46:06 <jasta> how to get arbitrary people in on the NDA
May 27 17:46:15 <Dougie187> jasta: as me.
May 27 17:46:29 <michaelnovakjr__> that is not open source, and they should take reference to the word 'open' off of their websit
May 27 17:46:29 <michaelnovakjr__> e
May 27 17:46:38 <Dougie187> i expect it to be you have to request access and have an app that you are actively working on, or submitted to ADC1.
May 27 17:46:43 <Dougie187> then sign an NDA
May 27 17:46:46 <raboof> michaelnovakjr__: i mean, the openmoko folks got the openness part right, but they're not getting various vendors on board and a number of developers building apps on the scale that android has
May 27 17:47:06 <romainguy> michaelnovakjr__: the source code will be released
May 27 17:47:20 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr__: yeah just not until the handsets are released.
May 27 17:47:21 <michaelnovakjr__> so why the need for an NDA
May 27 17:47:36 <Dougie187> to hide featuers from the public until handsets are realsed.
May 27 17:47:37 <michaelnovakjr__> if it will be open source eventually what is the big deal
May 27 17:47:37 <Dougie187> ?
May 27 17:47:51 <michaelnovakjr__> but the 50 applications that get it won't be using some new features?
May 27 17:47:54 <Dougie187> or from other potential phone hardware manufacturing companies.
May 27 17:48:05 <raboof> michaelnovakjr__: i suppose the industry partners demanded a head-start in exchange for support, or something like that
May 27 17:48:40 <michaelnovakjr__> are these parts going to be open source?
May 27 17:48:50 <raboof> who knows...
May 27 17:48:53 <michaelnovakjr__> these 'NDA' parts?
May 27 17:49:00 <Dougie187> well from what i have heard from morrildl and jasonchen, they had developed some hardware drivers for specific companies in the OHA, and those companies do not want the public to know what they are.
May 27 17:49:37 <michaelnovakjr__> this sounds familiar
May 27 17:49:48 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr__: again, from what i have heard. is that all of the android platform (SDK Tools... etc) will be released as open source after the handsets come out. Except for a few hardware drivers.
May 27 17:50:19 <Dougie187> one thing i didnt get clarification on was if google was developing these hardware drivers or if other OHA members were and then contributing them back to google for use in other companies.
May 27 17:50:45 <michaelnovakjr__> its a good thing all this bullshit is holding up developers from writing apps
May 27 17:51:08 <michaelnovakjr__> because a few jerks are paranoid about their drivers
May 27 17:51:14 <Dougie187> yeah i havent even started because there is said to be a lot of api changes in the new SDK
May 27 17:51:36 <michaelnovakjr__> why is vendor specific shit even built into the sdk?
May 27 17:51:52 <Dougie187> lol jasta might say because google doesnt know how to brance.
May 27 17:51:53 <Dougie187> branch.
May 27 17:51:56 <michaelnovakjr__> if i am on an LG handset why do i need the overhead of lets say HTC drivers?
May 27 17:52:21 * raboof isn't even really interested until there's more certainty both hard- and software will be sufficiently open
May 27 17:52:23 <Dougie187> i would guess because they thought it was easier to bundle it all together rather than make a seperate SDK for each company.
May 27 17:52:41 <raboof> i'm really eager to find out it'll all be okay though :)
May 27 17:52:50 <Dougie187> raboof: software is said to be completely open. but hardware may not.
May 27 17:52:53 <Dougie187> afaik
May 27 17:52:56 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187, you wouldn't need to have a separate SDK necessarily, what about separate packages?
May 27 17:53:20 <michaelnovakjr__> HTC package, LG package.... then if they share something similar then put it in the SDK
May 27 17:53:22 <Dougie187> they didnt like the idea of maintaining all the different packages.
May 27 17:53:40 <michaelnovakjr__> so google is maintaining vendor drivers?
May 27 17:53:45 <Dougie187> i guess.
May 27 17:53:55 <Dougie187> im not sure if they are maintaining them specifically.
May 27 17:54:06 <michaelnovakjr__> that seems a little unnecessary
May 27 17:54:07 <Dougie187> or if the vendors are and they get put back into the sdk. or what.
May 27 17:54:28 <pawalls> jasta, Hey
May 27 17:54:30 <Dougie187> also, keep in mind this is all just my understanding of the conversations i have had with morrildl and jasonchen.
May 27 17:54:30 <pawalls> jasta, Shall we plan on going out tomorrow night or Thursday instead?
May 27 17:54:46 <michaelnovakjr__> of course :)
May 27 17:54:53 <romainguy> You guys talk way too much with way too little information :))
May 27 17:55:20 <Dougie187> romainguy: thats because you guys all hide when your scared to talk to us. so we fill in the blanks :)
May 27 17:55:20 <michaelnovakjr__> after investing quite a bit of time in the project only to be stalled, it would be nice to know what is going on
May 27 17:55:45 <Dougie187> I havent even seen morrildl in here since like last wednesday
May 27 17:55:51 <michaelnovakjr__> i must say looking back i think they did the challenge a bit too early
May 27 17:56:27 <michaelnovakjr__> i think ducks should have been in a row first, now we have NDA for 50 people and everyone else gets to wait.
May 27 17:56:43 <Dougie187> some people were upset about the whole SDK thing as well because the winners of ADC1 could potentially have an upper hand in ADC2 because of the SDK release.
May 27 17:57:13 <michaelnovakjr__> true
May 27 17:57:15 <Dougie187> so i guess they are working on a statement to address the "public" access of the SDK.
May 27 17:57:34 <Dougie187> at least thats what some of us hope is included in the announcement.
May 27 17:57:56 <michaelnovakjr__> my confidence in this whole process has definitely gone down
May 27 17:58:17 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm just going to wait for the source to be released
May 27 17:58:26 <michaelnovakjr__> in the meantime, i'll enjoy an iPhone!
May 27 17:58:43 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 17:58:44 <Dougie187> did you get one?
May 27 17:58:46 <Dougie187> or are you going to?
May 27 17:58:58 <michaelnovakjr__> waiting to see if June will bring a 3G version
May 27 17:59:07 <michaelnovakjr__> and a better SDK
May 27 17:59:14 <Dougie187> lol engadget thinks its coming soon.
May 27 17:59:23 <michaelnovakjr__> WWDC isn't too far away
May 27 17:59:28 <Dougie187> i keep seeing posts of 3G Iphone Ahead.
May 27 17:59:33 <Dougie187> yeah i remember hearing that too.
May 27 17:59:55 <michaelnovakjr__> i think at WWDC there will be 3G iphone and a way better sdk that supports background processes
May 27 18:00:21 <Dougie187> did you see the post of the MBA cutting some guy and slicing bread?
May 27 18:00:38 <michaelnovakjr__> nope
May 27 18:01:20 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/27/german-users-claim-macbook-air-can-cut-through-bread-flesh/
May 27 18:02:34 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
May 27 18:02:46 <michaelnovakjr__> not sure i would use my laptop to cut bread :)
May 27 18:02:55 <Dougie187> lol
May 27 18:04:28 <dims> macbook is better than sliced bread, it can even slice bread too :)
May 27 18:04:57 <michaelnovakjr__> and apparently slice your arm off if you are being an idiot and leaning against it
May 27 18:05:12 <Dougie187> either way michaelnovakjr__ we are supposed to hear the "announcement" today by the end of the day.
May 27 18:05:36 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm very interested to see what they have to say
May 27 18:05:48 <Dougie187> so are most of us.
May 27 18:07:09 <Dougie187> romainguy should have clarified the stuff that i said that was wrong.
May 27 18:16:22 <Kraln> michaelnovakjr__: I'm pretty sure the Iphone already supports background threads
May 27 18:16:37 <Kraln> also, what's wrong with the current sdk?
May 27 18:17:41 <tale_> I've been holding out for an android phone, working on my own app, but I think that unless they announce something pretty significant, I'll be jumping on the iPhone bandwagon.
May 27 18:17:55 <Kraln> honestly? why not the blackberry bandwagon
May 27 18:17:58 <Kraln> much larger install base
May 27 18:18:10 <tale_> without the openness the iPhone wins with the UI
May 27 18:18:21 <tale_> blackberry's are ugly
May 27 18:18:31 <Kraln> it has a larger install base and all the features
May 27 18:18:35 <tale_> functional yes, but I'm interested in looks
May 27 18:18:51 <tale_> if I can have looks and functionality, then why not?
May 27 18:24:27 <f00f-> winners of ADC1 are ineligible for ADC2
May 27 18:24:42 <Dougie187> i thought they hadnt confirmed that.
May 27 18:24:51 <Dougie187> at least thats what morrildl said last i asked him that
May 27 18:25:09 <f00f-> well, seeing who was eligible for ADC1
May 27 18:25:15 <f00f-> i mean
May 27 18:25:25 <f00f-> not even google summer of code awardees
May 27 18:25:27 <Dougie187> and by winners, do you mean of round 1 or round 2?
May 27 18:25:28 <f00f-> were eligible for ADC I
May 27 18:25:34 <f00f-> either
May 27 18:25:37 <f00f-> money is money
May 27 18:25:55 <f00f-> i believe, if they have given you a chunk of cash in the past
May 27 18:25:58 <f00f-> they won't give it to you again
May 27 18:26:12 <Dougie187> thats what i had thought, but morrildl said they hadnt decided yet.
May 27 18:26:15 <f00f-> it would seem the most fair, i think
May 27 18:26:17 <f00f-> ah okay
May 27 18:26:39 <Dougie187> he said they havent figured out if ADC2 will be structured the same at all or even if the Ts and Cs will be the same.
May 27 18:27:08 <f00f-> it seems they are only a few days ahead of us in everything
May 27 18:27:23 <Dougie187> yup
May 27 18:30:35 <Dougie187> i think that disappoints a lot of people though
May 27 18:31:28 <f00f-> every relationship needs good communication
May 27 18:31:43 <Dougie187> heh
May 27 19:23:05 <Dougie187_> do any of you use timevault
May 27 19:23:05 <Dougie187_> ?
May 27 19:23:11 <volmarias> no, I don't need timetravel
May 27 19:27:37 <cutmasta> jo
May 27 19:31:59 <borism> top -o cpu
May 27 19:32:08 <borism> oops
May 27 19:32:28 <volmarias> failure 99%
May 27 19:39:47 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 27 20:02:30 <jasta> whew, home
May 27 20:12:04 <raidsf> Google IO tomorrow!!
May 27 20:43:08 <jasta> so, who's going to I/O?
May 27 20:44:55 <Dougie187> not this guy
May 27 20:45:40 <michaelnovakjr__> or this guy
May 27 20:46:47 <jerkface03> looks like you're the only one jasta
May 27 20:47:14 <michaelnovakjr__> and muthu :)
May 27 20:48:54 <Dougie187> and pawalls
May 27 20:49:06 <Dougie187> possibly f00f-
May 27 20:49:19 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, you'll enjoy the inspirational content muthu will have :)
May 27 20:49:31 <Dougie187> muthu is already there as well.
May 27 20:49:56 <Dougie187> so michaelnovakjr__ your getting better at halo?
May 27 20:54:37 <Dougie187> i wonder which carrier will release the first android device.
May 27 21:00:20 <michaelnovakjr__> Dougie187, avg of 20 kills a match, mvp 3 times in a row yesterday
May 27 21:00:28 <Dougie187> nice
May 27 21:00:58 <michaelnovakjr__> i was a little rusty since i was only playing call of duty for a while.
May 27 21:01:01 <Dougie187> well we will have to play some more cops and robbers.
May 27 21:01:03 <Dougie187> heh yeah
May 27 21:01:10 <michaelnovakjr__> definitely
May 27 21:01:16 <Dougie187> 20 kills a match in what?
May 27 21:01:18 <Dougie187> team slayer?
May 27 21:01:21 <Dougie187> big team?
May 27 21:01:23 <Dougie187> lone wolves?
May 27 21:01:26 <Dougie187> or doubles?
May 27 21:02:32 <michaelnovakjr__> team slayer
May 27 21:02:40 <Dougie187> cool
May 27 21:03:04 <Dougie187> when is E3?
May 27 21:03:51 <michaelnovakjr__> e3?
May 27 21:03:56 <Dougie187> yeah.
May 27 21:03:59 <Dougie187> google it.
May 27 21:04:34 <Dougie187> its like the Electronic Entertainment Expo
May 27 21:04:35 <Dougie187> or something
May 27 21:05:07 <michaelnovakjr__> july 11-13
May 27 21:05:15 <Dougie187> yeah i found it
May 27 21:05:16 <Dougie187> heh
May 27 21:05:17 <michaelnovakjr__> oh wait, that was last year :)
May 27 21:05:48 <michaelnovakjr__> its 15-17 this year
May 27 21:06:00 <Dougie187> awesome.
May 27 22:01:27 <jasta> laammmme
May 27 22:01:53 <duey> ?
May 27 22:01:54 <jasta> my friend can't make it to the conference after all
May 27 22:01:58 <duey> aw
May 27 22:02:04 <jasta> he'll still be out tomorrow night, but not to the stuff during the day
May 27 22:02:50 <duey> you will have to sit with muthu
May 27 22:16:04 <f00f-> and his witty titles
May 27 22:23:17 <jasta> this screws up my plans for tonight too
May 27 22:23:22 <jasta> now i don't know what to do with myself :)
May 27 22:24:27 <jasta> oh well, maybe i'll just work on some projects
May 27 22:40:03 <jasta> fuck, my phone is gonna die too and i forgot my charger at home
May 27 22:40:07 <jasta> hmmm hmmm
May 27 22:42:54 <jasta> sweet, there's a store right by my hotel
May 27 22:49:04 <f00f-> where you at jasta
May 27 22:50:31 <jasta> i'm at the marriott right next to the moscone
May 27 22:50:48 <jasta> i plan to be on foot the entire time i'm there, except to and from the airport
May 27 22:51:35 <jasta> so, google's got an hour left until they officially blew this opportunity to right some things before I/O
May 27 22:53:24 <duey> ?
May 27 22:53:45 <duey> just hijack the state jasta
May 27 22:53:48 <duey> stage
May 27 22:53:58 <duey> steal the mic and have a good rant
May 27 22:55:11 <tale_> do it!!
May 27 22:55:19 <tale_> jasta, jasta, jasta
May 27 22:55:34 <tale_> we've got your back
May 27 22:57:16 <jasta> i honestly am thinking about not going.
May 27 22:59:04 <jasta> i don't really see what is going to be fun about this.  i've already made up my mind that i won't be working on android until the next SDK drops
May 27 22:59:14 <jasta> plus let's face it, the Android sessions at I/O are super lame.
May 27 22:59:29 <jasta> the only interesting one is on Dalvik, the rest we all know anyway
May 27 23:00:13 <duey> all the google techtalks i have been at uni were pretty good
May 27 23:00:31 <jasta> yeah, but look at the sessions on Android
May 27 23:00:39 <jasta> they're all like "how to write an Android app!"
May 27 23:00:45 <duey> well dont go to them
May 27 23:01:00 <duey> i went to one on sawzal & mapreduce it was really good
May 27 23:01:09 <jasta> well i got a free pass to I/O, so it wouldn't be anything wrong with not going
May 27 23:01:27 <duey> well it is sold out
May 27 23:01:32 <duey> i think
May 27 23:01:44 <jasta> so?
May 27 23:01:55 <duey> oh its not
May 27 23:04:58 <jasta> i mean, i could just go hang out in SF
May 27 23:05:27 <jasta> i wish i would've known about all this Android lameness a month ago when i bought my tickets
May 27 23:05:31 <jasta> i definitely would not have gone
May 27 23:08:11 <f00f-> huh
May 27 23:08:14 <f00f-> it starts tomorrow
May 27 23:08:36 <f00f-> the schedule has been up for a while
May 27 23:08:52 <jasta> i mean the lameness of no SDK releases and general evilness surrounding the OHA
May 27 23:15:42 <f00f-> do NOT jump to conclusions
May 27 23:15:49 <f00f-> unless you have a jump-to-conclusions mat
May 27 23:15:58 <f00f-> i think they are being silent for a reason
May 27 23:16:10 <f00f-> they are not ready to set off the fireworks just yet
May 27 23:16:18 <f00f-> (regarding the OHA)
May 27 23:18:24 <duey> so whys the oha evil
May 27 23:31:29 <jasta> f00f-: well i don't much care for this big surprise that they may or may not in store for us.
May 27 23:31:46 <jasta> my enthusiasm stemmed from the notion that i could prepare software to run on this platform ahead of its launch.
May 27 23:32:19 <jasta> and obviously google wanted us to feel tha tway, else there would not have been the OHA.
May 27 23:32:36 <f00f-> there won't be a phone for quite some time
May 27 23:32:47 <jasta> and there won't be an SDK release for quite some time either.
May 27 23:32:47 <f00f-> you can bet there'll be an SDK out before a phone goes on sale
May 27 23:32:50 <jasta> Dan confirmed that.
May 27 23:32:59 <jasta> i would not bet on that, actually.
May 27 23:33:08 <jasta> because wouldnt that be "setting off the fireworks" early?
May 27 23:33:11 <f00f-> i'd say definitely one will drop before august
May 27 23:33:17 <jasta> i'd say not.
May 27 23:33:31 <jasta> let's take a look at Google's track record, shall we?
May 27 23:33:44 <jasta> what regarding Android has been on schedule?
May 27 23:33:53 <f00f-> nothing
May 27 23:33:59 <f00f-> i dont know what promises have been made though
May 27 23:35:06 <jasta> the illusion of this platform has faded in my mind, and i am coming to the realization that they will be late to launch, late to release the next SDK, and will ultimately under-deliver on their openness pledge,
May 27 23:35:34 <jasta> and i will be forced to sit on the sidelines as they flounder.
May 27 23:36:09 <f00f-> you can jump in the game
May 27 23:36:19 <jasta> that they are going to be late on this desperately needed announcement today is very telling.
May 27 23:36:33 <f00f-> oh new announcement today?
May 27 23:36:37 <jasta> f00f-: uhm, how?  with the OHA controlling every aspect of the platform how might i do that?
May 27 23:36:53 <f00f-> ask, offer to lend a hand, i dont know
May 27 23:37:04 <jasta> f00f-: last week i complained quite loudly to jasonchen that the lack of response from Google on this NDA issue was inappropriate.
May 27 23:37:24 <jasta> he committed Google to an announcement clarifying and explaining the situation last week, though he did not specify a date.
May 27 23:37:32 <jasta> Thursday he said it would definitely come Friday or today.
May 27 23:37:39 <jasta> then he said it would definitely come today.
May 27 23:37:48 <jasta> by the close of business Google time.
May 27 23:37:52 <jasta> that is in 22 minutes ;)
May 27 23:38:22 <jasta> and this announcement is not expected to be good news, but rather to clarify the bad news.
May 27 23:38:26 <f00f-> wow 5pm is it
May 27 23:38:57 <jasta> i don't believe the OHA is fit to manage this project.
May 27 23:39:29 <jasta> fit, instead, to manage another platform that never labeled itself as open.
May 27 23:39:58 <jasta> jasonchen publicly pondered if it would have been best for Google never to have unveiled the "openness" pledge in Android, opting instead to surprise us with that news near launch.
May 27 23:40:10 <jasta> And I can say wholeheartedly that I agree.  That would have been best.
May 27 23:43:27 <f00f-> well let's pound them tomorrow
May 27 23:43:49 <duey> so whats wrong with the nda issue?
May 27 23:57:06 <jasta> that it exists. :)
May 27 23:57:40 <jasta> moreover, that the general public will not be able to update their code to new APIs, utilize new features, or simply even have normal bug fixes.
May 27 23:57:55 <jasta> M5 as it stands has lots of pathetic bugs that are reported as fixed in Google's source tree.
May 27 23:58:18 <jasta> such as the MediaPlayer which crashes, fails to support the codecs they claim, and has no streaming/caching features.
May 27 23:58:32 <jasta> or rather, has very limited streaming features which were otherwise intended to be more robust.
May 27 23:59:01 <jasta> and that the Eclipse ADT debugger doesn't support watch expressions, and under certain scenarios showing local variables crashes the running process in Android.
May 27 23:59:13 <jasta> or that the XML DOM parser doesn't support entities, CDATA section, etc.
May 27 23:59:22 <jasta> or the animation cache bugs.
May 27 23:59:24 <jasta> or the layout bugs.
May 28 00:00:14 <jasta> or the fact that inflating views in a custom layout adds an extra layer in your view hierarchy that is unnecessary, making it likely to hit the call stack limit on the emulator and thus limits the depth of your layout to 8 or 9 layers.
May 28 00:00:14 <jasta> in some cases fewer logical layers.
May 28 00:00:40 <jasta> my program in particular works around nearly every bug in that list.
May 28 00:00:54 <jasta> i assume there are numerous other bugs that impact other programs in areas i don't use.
May 28 00:01:02 <jasta> anyway, i'm off.  going to the airport.
May 28 00:05:11 <f00f-> oh, you're leaving SF?
May 28 00:06:26 <f00f-> well i agree most if not all what you said above
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 28 02:59:57 2008