**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 29 02:59:56 2008
May 29 05:45:56 <gil_android> Has anyone installed the android-sdk_72264 release?
May 29 05:46:04 <muthu> what?
May 29 05:46:08 <muthu> is that the new one?
May 29 05:46:12 <gil_android> Yes
May 29 05:46:20 <muthu> not yet
May 29 05:46:25 <gil_android> Hm
May 29 05:46:32 <muthu> any changes?
May 29 05:46:33 <gil_android> Does not start
May 29 05:46:44 <gil_android> Many changes
May 29 05:47:04 <gil_android> Took me a few hours to fix most if the problems in my code.
May 29 05:47:07 <duey> uh
May 29 05:47:18 <duey> there is no new release?
May 29 05:47:26 <gil_android> There are a few changes in the Contacts database that I could not fix yet
May 29 05:47:52 <gil_android> Top 50 only release
May 29 05:47:52 <duey> how is IO muthu ?
May 29 05:48:00 <duey> well why are you talking about it in here?
May 29 05:48:21 <gil_android> Just asking
May 29 05:48:36 <duey> didn't they NDA that..?
May 29 05:48:48 <gil_android> You mean because of the NDA?
May 29 05:49:08 <duey> well my understanding of an NDA is that you dont go into a public chat room and start talking about the subject which is under NDA
May 29 05:49:17 <gil_android> Agreed
May 29 05:49:22 <duey> just a suggestion
May 29 05:49:28 <gil_android> A good one
May 29 05:50:05 <gil_android> Did you participate in ADC 1?
May 29 05:50:13 <duey> yeah
May 29 05:50:23 <muthu> duey: hey
May 29 05:50:33 <duey> jasta beat you up yet?
May 29 05:50:41 <muthu> met jasta!!
May 29 05:50:43 <muthu> haha
May 29 05:50:43 <duey> zomg
May 29 05:50:57 <muthu> guess he's partying still
May 29 05:51:26 <muthu> IO was pretty good, met a few folks
May 29 05:51:30 <duey> nice
May 29 05:51:45 <muthu> most of them from this channel
May 29 05:51:48 <muthu> pretty nice
May 29 05:52:00 <muthu> dan, jason et al
May 29 05:52:05 <duey> ah yep
May 29 05:52:28 <muthu> dmofffet
May 29 05:52:36 <muthu> f00f
May 29 05:52:45 <duey> did you have a #android meet up
May 29 05:52:51 <muthu> oh yeah
May 29 05:52:57 <duey> sit around and play irc?
May 29 05:53:06 <muthu> #androids got together
May 29 05:53:16 <duey> see any devices?
May 29 05:53:22 <muthu> nope
May 29 05:53:24 <Doctor_Nick> what are the other google-io channels on freenode?
May 29 05:53:33 <duey> muthu, unusual
May 29 05:54:18 <muthu> there was a keynote
May 29 05:54:30 <muthu> but that was pretty standard
May 29 05:55:45 <Doctor_Nick> the keynote demo is up on youtube
May 29 05:56:01 <Doctor_Nick> check the street view with compass mode demo :o
May 29 05:56:02 <duey> did you meet the other person in your group lol?
May 29 05:56:07 <muthu> food and drinks were good :)
May 29 05:56:13 <Doctor_Nick> yeah
May 29 05:56:15 <Doctor_Nick> free beer
May 29 05:56:16 <duey> google food is always good :)
May 29 05:56:21 <muthu> yes
May 29 05:56:31 <muthu> met other people
May 29 05:56:35 <muthu> but still not many
May 29 05:57:03 <muthu> from my perspective, wanted to meet a lot more
May 29 05:57:19 <duey> maybe you should of printed a tshirt:
May 29 05:57:27 <muthu> haha
May 29 05:57:28 <duey> "BREAKING NEWS: I AM MUTHU"
May 29 05:57:48 <muthu> people recoginized me.. which was cool
May 29 05:57:54 <duey> you had a pic?
May 29 05:58:05 <muthu> no.. just the indian face :0
May 29 05:58:07 <muthu> :)
May 29 05:58:11 <duey> ah
May 29 05:58:13 <duey> lol
May 29 05:58:16 <muthu> haha
May 29 05:58:51 <muthu> most of the channel folks was there
May 29 10:14:27 <romainguy> yo
May 29 13:38:52 <Dougie187> good morning everyone
May 29 15:13:20 <umdk1d3-io> rawr
May 29 15:13:27 <umdk1d3-io> im in a bean bag
May 29 15:13:30 <umdk1d3-io> where all yall at?
May 29 15:13:40 <umdk1d3-io> finally met jasta last nite
May 29 15:14:24 <Dougie187> nice
May 29 15:14:27 <Dougie187> you guys get wasted?
May 29 15:14:31 <umdk1d3-io> lol no
May 29 15:14:43 <Dougie187> lol i thought he would for sure be getting drunk
May 29 15:14:43 <umdk1d3-io> he didnt stay for concert
May 29 15:14:54 <umdk1d3-io> flightof conchords was awesome
May 29 15:15:21 <Dougie187> what was the concert?
May 29 15:15:42 <umdk1d3-io> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Conchords  was the band that played
May 29 15:15:50 <umdk1d3-io> that was the major act everyone was looking fwd to
May 29 15:15:55 <umdk1d3-io> but other djs thru the nite
May 29 15:15:59 <umdk1d3-io> im sure there are pics up somehwere lol
May 29 15:16:27 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 15:16:40 <Dougie187> thats cool, i didnt know they would have a concert at IO
May 29 15:17:00 <umdk1d3-io> yea they are a geeky band too lol
May 29 15:17:04 <umdk1d3-io> was a good fit
May 29 15:17:23 <Dougie187> heh thats what it seemed like from reading the wikipedia article
May 29 15:22:49 <Dougie187> what sessions are you going to today?
May 29 15:23:28 <umdk1d3-io> all the advanced android ones
May 29 15:23:36 <umdk1d3-io> there talkinga bout dalvik internals and other stuff
May 29 15:23:39 <Dougie187> Ohh advanced android ones?!
May 29 15:23:40 <Dougie187> nice
May 29 15:23:46 <Dougie187> are they going to give you more on the new SDK?
May 29 15:23:59 <umdk1d3-io> mayyyyybe
May 29 15:24:07 <Dougie187> hopefully
May 29 15:24:09 <umdk1d3-io> actually last nite they sent out the logins for the private sdk site
May 29 15:24:13 <umdk1d3-io> for the winners
May 29 15:24:14 <Dougie187> i guess there were specs released on the phone they used.
May 29 15:24:19 <Dougie187> thats lame.
May 29 15:24:23 <umdk1d3-io> i tried grabbing it last nite but hotel wireless died
May 29 15:24:34 <Dougie187> i take it you won first round ADC?
May 29 15:24:38 <umdk1d3-io> yea
May 29 15:24:50 * umdk1d3-io goes to try downloading again
May 29 15:24:56 <Dougie187> i think it sucks they they are only allowing the 50 winners access to the SDK.
May 29 15:24:57 <Dougie187> personally
May 29 15:25:17 <umdk1d3-io> well
May 29 15:25:26 <umdk1d3-io> i mean im sure there will be piles of issues/bugs
May 29 15:25:33 <umdk1d3-io> it will be annoying as heck for us
May 29 15:25:45 <Dougie187> but it will be closer to release SDK then the current public one.
May 29 15:25:46 <umdk1d3-io> and they dont wanna discourage the entire dev community
May 29 15:25:59 <umdk1d3-io> gotta release a good foundation otherwise people will abandon
May 29 15:26:05 <Dougie187> loli think not releasing it publicly is discouraging the dev community
May 29 15:26:21 <Dougie187> certainly discouraged me.
May 29 15:26:32 <Dougie187> i havent even developed anything yet because i dont know how much the SDK is going to change.
May 29 15:28:17 <Dougie187> and there are 1738 teams that are at a standstill now. because they have gone as far as they can go with the current SDK
May 29 15:32:38 <umdk1d3-io> hmm
May 29 15:32:45 <umdk1d3-io> Dougie187: you saw screenshots yday from keynote yes?
May 29 15:32:56 <umdk1d3-io> im expecting more new sdk publicly today ion sessions
May 29 15:33:04 <umdk1d3-io> yday it was surface overview stuff
May 29 15:33:05 <Dougie187> yeah
May 29 15:33:09 <Dougie187> and the videos.
May 29 15:33:12 <umdk1d3-io> hopefully there will be wondering yummy details dtoday  ;)
May 29 15:33:14 <Dougie187> that plusminus posted on his site.
May 29 15:33:17 <Dougie187> they were cool
May 29 15:33:18 <umdk1d3-io> well pics will be more deatiled
May 29 15:33:23 <Dougie187> did you see the specs from the device?
May 29 15:33:34 <umdk1d3-io> remind me to post them creativecommons or soemthing
May 29 15:33:39 <umdk1d3-io> mmm noi i didnt
May 29 15:33:42 <umdk1d3-io> how could anyone tell lol
May 29 15:33:47 <umdk1d3-io> they kept the camera view reallyt tight the whole time
May 29 15:33:51 <umdk1d3-io> it might be all speculation
May 29 15:33:56 <umdk1d3-io> unless someon had insde into
May 29 15:34:00 <umdk1d3-io> *info
May 29 15:34:06 <Dougie187> one sec.
May 29 15:34:08 <Dougie187> ill give them to you
May 29 15:34:56 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/28/android-qanda-session-at-i-o-reveals-dream-specs-carefree-mentali/
May 29 15:41:32 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 29 15:46:42 <tale_> umdk1d3-io, did you happen to see any mockups of an on screen keyboard for the touch screen phone they demoed?
May 29 15:47:07 <tale_> well, I guess they wouldn't be mockups, but rather implementations of the keyboard I've seen in the emulator
May 29 15:47:25 <tale_> I'm wondering if they will have some of the logic that the iPhone has in the keyboard
May 29 15:49:43 <Dougie187> i would assume so.
May 29 15:49:52 <Dougie187> because they can just have a touch screen phone
May 29 16:11:39 <umdk1d3-io> rawr
May 29 16:11:45 <umdk1d3-io> keynote wireles sux again lol
May 29 16:12:21 <romainguy> umdk1d3-io: it's always the case at large conferences
May 29 16:12:42 <umdk1d3-io> romainguy: well idk but last year at deve day in san jose it was perfect
May 29 16:12:45 <umdk1d3-io> worked the whole time iirc
May 29 16:18:38 <romainguy> what's the keynote today?
May 29 16:19:46 <umdk1d3-io> user interface
May 29 16:20:40 <umdk1d3-io> and measuing user experiebnce
May 29 16:20:59 <umdk1d3-io> o.o quaoting sam walton
May 29 16:32:36 <umdk1d3-io> o.o pcjjman-io is here lol
May 29 16:33:08 <umdk1d3-io> pcjjman-io: are you torrenting to kill the net here lol
May 29 16:33:09 <umdk1d3-io> :P
May 29 16:33:33 <pcjjman-io> Distributed ddos on your box.
May 29 16:33:59 <pcjjman-io> ;P
May 29 16:34:48 <Dougie187> hows the keynote today?
May 29 16:35:26 <umdk1d3-io> talking about user experience a lot
May 29 16:36:02 <Dougie187> any cool android stuff?
May 29 16:36:25 <trigatch4> Hey does someone here do AndroidCommunity?
May 29 16:40:42 <pcjjman-io> Nothing at all.  When she mentioned the evolution of phones she talked about the iphone.
May 29 16:40:51 <Dougie187> hah
May 29 16:40:53 <Dougie187> thats lame
May 29 16:50:07 <Dougie187> theres a new SC2 unit up
May 29 16:50:13 <Dougie187> for those interested.
May 29 16:56:14 <umdk1d3-io> tayay ssh bax
May 29 16:56:18 <umdk1d3-io> stupid wireless lol
May 29 16:56:23 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 17:03:11 <umdk1d3-io> syay
May 29 17:03:15 <umdk1d3-io> wireless is come and go
May 29 17:03:20 <f00f-> `heh
May 29 17:03:21 <pcjjman-io> More go than come.
May 29 17:03:26 <f00f-> yeah it even sucks here up by the bean bags
May 29 17:03:27 <umdk1d3-io> maybe they thye are rebotting or something
May 29 17:03:30 <f00f-> or is quite laggy
May 29 17:03:34 <umdk1d3-io> ooh f00f- your here?  :D
May 29 17:03:43 <umdk1d3-io> keynode it almost done
May 29 17:03:47 <umdk1d3-io> were in front row lol
May 29 17:03:52 <f00f-> haha nice
May 29 17:03:58 <f00f-> i see a lot of people leaving already
May 29 17:04:03 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: im wearing brown striped shirt
May 29 17:04:08 <umdk1d3-io> and im tall lol  :P
May 29 17:04:14 <umdk1d3-io> you?
May 29 17:04:20 <f00f-> i'm the only one wearing a swiss army tank shirt, gray
May 29 17:04:35 <umdk1d3-io> ooh lol
May 29 17:04:54 <umdk1d3-io> what sessn you goingt o first?
May 29 17:04:59 <f00f-> dalvik :)
May 29 17:05:07 <umdk1d3-io> well the first hour there isnt anything android
May 29 17:05:16 <umdk1d3-io> im prolly hanging around android area on 2ndfloor
May 29 17:05:16 <f00f-> i think we'll go early though, since it'll be packed
May 29 17:05:20 <umdk1d3-io> oh totally
May 29 17:05:26 <umdk1d3-io> KTHXBAI
May 29 17:05:30 <umdk1d3-io> keynode ovbar
May 29 17:05:38 <f00f-> meet at bean bags
May 29 17:05:42 <f00f-> there is one empty here
May 29 17:05:45 <umdk1d3-io> nothing new announced
May 29 17:05:50 <Dougie187> bust
May 29 17:05:59 <Dougie187> i want to hear something new
May 29 17:06:24 <f00f-> afk
May 29 17:21:00 <pawalls> jasta, holy oversleeping, batman!
May 29 17:53:21 <f00f-> did you guys go out last night?
May 29 17:53:37 <Dougie187> umdk1d3-io said he hung out at the concert.
May 29 17:53:42 <Dougie187> thats all i know
May 29 17:53:47 <Dougie187> i know jasta didnt go to the concert though
May 29 17:53:59 <f00f-> i think i saw him there
May 29 17:54:14 <f00f-> well, that ended around 9p i think
May 29 17:54:31 <Dougie187> oh ok
May 29 18:07:52 <umdk1d3-io> rawr
May 29 18:08:00 <Dougie187> hows it going umdk1d3-io
May 29 18:08:06 <umdk1d3-io> almost into dalvik sesison
May 29 18:08:09 <umdk1d3-io> ive got camera
May 29 18:08:14 <umdk1d3-io> will be posting stuff almost live  ;)
May 29 18:08:18 <umdk1d3-io> if theyh have new sdk prettyness
May 29 18:08:25 <Dougie187> nice
May 29 18:08:30 <Dougie187> im excited for those.
May 29 18:08:35 <Dougie187> hopefully they do have new SDK stuff
May 29 18:10:04 <umdk1d3-io> oh frick
May 29 18:10:07 <umdk1d3-io> my camera is dead
May 29 18:10:21 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 18:10:23 <Dougie187> bust
May 29 18:22:11 <umdk1d3-io> yuay pcjjman-io has a camera
May 29 18:22:22 <Dougie187> nice
May 29 18:22:22 <umdk1d3-io> and irc actually works here lol
May 29 18:23:14 <f00f-> where are you umdk1d3-io
May 29 18:23:21 <f00f-> we are here at the right side
May 29 18:23:25 <f00f-> where the power is :)
May 29 18:23:40 <Dougie187> whos we?
May 29 18:23:41 <f00f-> it's filing up..............................................
May 29 18:23:55 <f00f-> me and dmoffett
May 29 18:24:01 <Dougie187> Cool
May 29 18:24:09 <Dougie187> let me know if you guys find something interesting.
May 29 18:24:22 <f00f-> will do
May 29 18:24:41 <f00f-> nice music
May 29 18:24:47 <f00f-> latin grooves
May 29 18:28:02 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: im at opposite sitde
May 29 18:28:12 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: you areound still?
May 29 18:28:20 <f00f-> yep
May 29 18:28:26 <umdk1d3-io> okay im gonna stand up
May 29 18:28:26 <f00f-> wave your hand
May 29 18:28:29 <umdk1d3-io> in brown striped shirt
May 29 18:30:03 <umdk1d3-io> yay
May 29 18:30:05 <umdk1d3-io>  we found each other irl
May 29 18:30:06 <umdk1d3-io> ;p;
May 29 18:30:07 <umdk1d3-io> lol
May 29 18:31:02 <travischoma> so is this the android session back channel... no heckling guys :-).
May 29 18:31:10 <umdk1d3-io> rofl
May 29 18:31:16 <umdk1d3-io> dalvik iceland
May 29 18:31:29 <umdk1d3-io> big picture
May 29 18:31:42 <umdk1d3-io> just wait for traffic to die in here lol
May 29 18:32:02 <umdk1d3-io> its getttting slooooooower
May 29 18:32:07 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: you using a bnc?
May 29 18:33:24 <f00f-> hahhhaa
May 29 18:33:27 <umdk1d3-io> vm needs to run o *n very slow cpu
May 29 18:33:29 <f00f-> yes, well
May 29 18:33:31 <umdk1d3-io> * relativelty little ram
May 29 18:33:34 <umdk1d3-io> * without swap space
May 29 18:33:37 <umdk1d3-io> * powered by battery
May 29 18:34:02 <umdk1d3-io> ooh i wonder if i could icecast this lol
May 29 18:34:16 <f00f-> umdk1d3-io: yeah i use irssi on a server, just using screen
May 29 18:34:28 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: LOL im doing exact same rofl
May 29 18:34:29 <f00f-> i would use my n95 to stream but i have no charger with me
May 29 18:34:36 <umdk1d3-io> <3 irssi
May 29 18:34:37 <f00f-> since it'll die in no time
May 29 18:34:41 <f00f-> yes indeed
May 29 18:35:28 <umdk1d3-io> * total ram: 64mb, after lowlevel only 20mb left free
May 29 18:35:33 <umdk1d3-io> * large sys lib of 10mb
May 29 18:35:43 <umdk1d3-io> (agian, emph no swap space)
May 29 18:36:06 <umdk1d3-io> header, stringids, typeids, protoids, fieldids, methodids, classdefs, data
May 29 18:36:17 <umdk1d3-io> list of things in a dex (davlik execulateble) file
May 29 18:36:27 <umdk1d3-io> id's are constant bool sections
May 29 18:37:20 <umdk1d3-io> ids are really pointers between differnet parts of the dex file
May 29 18:37:28 <umdk1d3-io> these are prolly the R. id's generated
May 29 18:37:34 <umdk1d3-io> wow this session is deep
May 29 18:37:36 <umdk1d3-io> lots of diagrams
May 29 18:37:41 <umdk1d3-io> taking pix, will be up soonish
May 29 18:37:50 <umdk1d3-io> jar file --> dex file
May 29 18:39:31 <umdk1d3-io> showed an example of how java classes translate to dex fuile layouts
May 29 18:40:19 <umdk1d3-io> hes compaing file sizes
May 29 18:40:39 <umdk1d3-io> on average dalvik is 44%, whereas jar is 49%
May 29 18:40:50 <umdk1d3-io> compraessed stuff
May 29 18:43:58 <umdk1d3-io> enter the zygote
May 29 18:44:13 <umdk1d3-io> nascent vm process,s tarts at boot time, prelaods and preinits classes and forks on command
May 29 18:44:38 <umdk1d3-io> sits on a socket and runs commands
May 29 18:45:23 <umdk1d3-io> shared dirty memory is shared through zygote between all running apps
May 29 18:45:45 <umdk1d3-io> ooh pix coming online soon  :D
May 29 18:46:02 <umdk1d3-io> mark bits for gc;ing
May 29 18:47:44 <umdk1d3-io> each separate heap does its separate gc'ing
May 29 18:47:54 <umdk1d3-io> android uses parallel mark bits for gc'ing
May 29 18:47:56 <michaelnovakjr__> gc blows
May 29 18:48:16 <michaelnovakjr__> i miss the days when developers had to manage their own memory
May 29 18:48:23 <umdk1d3-io> lol
May 29 18:48:36 <umdk1d3-io> slides uplolading to flicr  :D
May 29 18:49:10 <AttractiveApe> michaelnovakjr__: there's a reason why they don't let you do that anymore...
May 29 18:49:47 <umdk1d3-io> cpui speed 250-500mhz, 100mhz busw, 16-32k cache, 20mb ram for apps
May 29 18:49:52 <umdk1d3-io> what they are aiming for dealing with
May 29 18:50:10 <umdk1d3-io> NO JIT COMPILER
May 29 18:50:18 <umdk1d3-io> jit=justintime
May 29 18:50:36 <umdk1d3-io> PIX ONLING   http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/
May 29 18:50:39 <umdk1d3-io> from talk
May 29 18:50:49 <umdk1d3-io> sessn still goign on
May 29 18:51:46 <umdk1d3-io> thx pcjjman-io   ;)
May 29 18:52:14 <umdk1d3-io> at INSTALLTIME they look at dex files
May 29 18:52:21 <umdk1d3-io> to verify that they have valid indeces, offsets
May 29 18:52:23 <umdk1d3-io> code cant misbehave
May 29 18:52:27 <umdk1d3-io> but only at installtime
May 29 18:52:42 <umdk1d3-io> (might be able to xploit by changing code somehow after installed?)
May 29 18:53:11 <umdk1d3-io> its mostly just a barrier for bugs, not really meant for security
May 29 18:53:27 <umdk1d3-io> he says most security is provided by process bounaries, not by this check
May 29 18:53:54 <umdk1d3-io> thse bugs could turn into security violateions for that speciifc app, so compromise that app, but not entire device
May 29 18:54:05 <umdk1d3-io> optimization also happens at instlal time
May 29 18:54:20 <umdk1d3-io> byte swapping/padding for arch, static linking
May 29 18:55:32 <umdk1d3-io> ENTIRELY new bytecode system
May 29 18:56:21 <umdk1d3-io> the stats:  30$ fewer instructions, 30% fewer code unitz, 35% *MORE* bytes in instruction stream
May 29 18:56:37 <umdk1d3-io> code unit is 2 bytues in dex file, instead of 1byte in classfiles
May 29 18:57:49 <umdk1d3-io> ooh concrete example coming
May 29 19:03:29 <umdk1d3-io> yay htchien
May 29 19:03:38 <htchien> hi
May 29 19:03:46 <umdk1d3-io> what sessn you in?  ;)
May 29 19:03:50 <htchien> hi umdk1d3-io
May 29 19:04:03 <htchien> I'm not in Android related sessions.
May 29 19:04:06 <umdk1d3-io> aww lol
May 29 19:04:08 <htchien> just stop by
May 29 19:04:15 <f00f-> damn!! this is some sick goto statement
May 29 19:04:22 <umdk1d3-io> haha lol
May 29 19:04:26 <f00f-> i thought goto had to be a label
May 29 19:04:31 <umdk1d3-io> awesome he gave gcc credit
May 29 19:04:33 <f00f-> now THAT is some power
May 29 19:04:36 <f00f-> yeah
May 29 19:04:40 <htchien> :)
May 29 19:05:02 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: were posting slides online as we go  ;)
May 29 19:05:14 <umdk1d3-io> bummer we dont have audio but meh
May 29 19:05:15 <f00f-> nice, let me see :)
May 29 19:05:23 <umdk1d3-io> http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/
May 29 19:06:25 <f00f-> nice
May 29 19:06:29 <f00f-> good pics
May 29 19:06:44 <umdk1d3-io> yea, really needs his comments tho to be useful
May 29 19:06:54 <Dougie187> have you guys seen Dan Talk yet?
May 29 19:06:55 <umdk1d3-io> == advice on how to optimize your code ==
May 29 19:07:08 <umdk1d3-io> really big diff is battery
May 29 19:08:16 <umdk1d3-io> time scales:  * human interaction (kbd,touch), * hguman perception (video,audio),  * computer scale (very fast proc)
May 29 19:08:48 <umdk1d3-io> just wondering, how many ppl in irc are following this live?
May 29 19:09:01 <umdk1d3-io> cuz otherwise well just post pix at end of sesn or something
May 29 19:09:16 <umdk1d3-io> first advice: get plenty of rest, dont use batt alot
May 29 19:09:28 <umdk1d3-io> (sidfebar: is there a way to get stats on which apps used your batter?)
May 29 19:09:37 <umdk1d3-io> (almost like ntop for batery)
May 29 19:10:25 <umdk1d3-io> adivce: loop wisely
May 29 19:10:41 <umdk1d3-io> ordered by most eff to least efficient
May 29 19:10:43 <umdk1d3-io> slide will be up soon
May 29 19:11:04 <umdk1d3-io> for(int i = init; i >=0; i--) {}  //most eff
May 29 19:11:29 <umdk1d3-io> DANGER for :  iterable<type>list = getlist;  for(Type obj: list)
May 29 19:11:47 <umdk1d3-io> pretty wasteful for battery
May 29 19:12:14 <umdk1d3-io> advice:  avoid allocation
May 29 19:12:26 <umdk1d3-io> avoid shortlived objects, because they need to be gc'ed quickly
May 29 19:12:47 <umdk1d3-io> also avoid longlived objs, as they steal memory for other apps
May 29 19:13:59 <f00f-> done!
May 29 19:14:00 <umdk1d3-io> ooh questions
May 29 19:14:01 <umdk1d3-io> :D
May 29 19:14:15 <umdk1d3-io> lets do some security qujestions
May 29 19:14:26 <umdk1d3-io> rest of pix coming up soon from pcjjman-io
May 29 19:14:38 <umdk1d3-io> lol big lines for questions almost immediately
May 29 19:14:49 <michaelnovakjr__> avoid long and avoid short.... is there something in the middle?
May 29 19:15:04 <umdk1d3-io> yea i think so
May 29 19:15:09 <umdk1d3-io> just be smart about your memory
May 29 19:15:16 <umdk1d3-io> if you need long, just be sure you need it
May 29 19:15:20 <dims> love the pacman!
May 29 19:15:34 <umdk1d3-io> so no new sdk stuff in thius sessn
May 29 19:15:36 <michaelnovakjr__> you are telling java developers to be smart about memory :)  good man
May 29 19:15:55 <michaelnovakjr__> i find that interesting
May 29 19:16:32 <f00f-> umdk1d3-io: who did you say are with on that side?
May 29 19:17:11 <umdk1d3-io> pcjjman-io: is who im with
May 29 19:17:18 <umdk1d3-io> also someone else i recognize
May 29 19:17:28 <umdk1d3-io> hes been in irc i think
May 29 19:17:30 <umdk1d3-io> one of the 50
May 29 19:17:37 <f00f-> ah okay, cool
May 29 19:17:39 <umdk1d3-io> oh btw i cant rmember f00f- were you in the 50?
May 29 19:17:43 <f00f-> and you?
May 29 19:17:44 <f00f-> yes i was
May 29 19:17:51 <umdk1d3-io> ooh cool
May 29 19:18:00 <f00f-> are you guys breaking for lunch?
May 29 19:18:05 <umdk1d3-io> mmm maybe
May 29 19:18:12 <umdk1d3-io> might leave someone here to save seats
May 29 19:18:41 <umdk1d3-io> is inside the frameowrk next a 201 class?
May 29 19:18:48 <htchien> good luck with the Android sessions
May 29 19:18:58 <htchien> leave for lunch
May 29 19:19:01 <htchien> 81
May 29 19:19:10 <umdk1d3-io> eh lunch is same as yday i think  :/
May 29 19:20:33 <f00f-> are we allowed to 'eat' at the sessions?
May 29 19:20:43 <f00f-> was the food like takeout-style?
May 29 19:21:05 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: yea
May 29 19:21:10 <umdk1d3-io> there was platest and takeout boxes
May 29 19:21:16 <umdk1d3-io> but lines are porlly long
May 29 19:21:22 <umdk1d3-io> might not make it through before next sessn
May 29 19:21:53 <pcjjman-io> http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/
May 29 19:21:58 <umdk1d3-io> yay new pix up
May 29 19:23:23 <f00f-> thanks for doing it guys
May 29 19:23:28 <umdk1d3-io> :)
May 29 19:23:35 <umdk1d3-io> who knows when theyse will end up online
May 29 19:23:39 <umdk1d3-io> they are recording
May 29 19:23:43 <umdk1d3-io> they might /shudder/ sell it
May 29 19:23:49 <umdk1d3-io> cuz it was 400 admission
May 29 19:24:11 <f00f-> ya, i think it'll be a hidden URL
May 29 19:24:17 <umdk1d3-io> heh
May 29 19:24:22 <umdk1d3-io> f00f-: you run linux laptop?
May 29 19:24:43 <f00f-> yeah, but i'm not in it right now
May 29 19:24:51 <f00f-> i run ubuntu usually
May 29 19:24:52 <umdk1d3-io> ah  you tried new sdk yhet?
May 29 19:24:57 <umdk1d3-io> <3 gentoo here lol
May 29 19:25:01 <f00f-> not yet, you?
May 29 19:25:05 <umdk1d3-io> i cant get it to unzip  :?
May 29 19:25:11 <umdk1d3-io> after catting together
May 29 19:25:17 <umdk1d3-io> its odd that linxu is only 4 parts
May 29 19:25:26 <umdk1d3-io> ooh also f00f- catch me later   ;)
May 29 19:25:32 <umdk1d3-io> ive got some info
May 29 19:25:42 <f00f-> okay!! heh
May 29 19:26:36 <f00f-> i love the countdown timer in the back
May 29 19:27:06 <umdk1d3-io> lol 3:10 left
May 29 19:27:40 <umdk1d3-io> yay dmoffett
May 29 19:30:43 <f00f-> WTF
May 29 19:30:45 <f00f-> it's increasing
May 29 19:30:47 <f00f-> the counter
May 29 19:31:07 <trigatch4> what countdown timer?
May 29 19:31:11 <f00f-> in the back
May 29 19:31:21 <f00f-> negative overflow :O
May 29 19:31:22 <f00f-> or something
May 29 19:31:26 <trigatch4> are you at google i/o as we speak?
May 29 19:31:36 <f00f-> yes sir
May 29 19:31:38 <trigatch4> me = jealous as i sit here in baltimore, md
May 29 19:31:53 <umdk1d3-io> lol
May 29 19:31:55 <trigatch4> any good android stuff today?
May 29 19:32:04 <umdk1d3-io> trigatch4: in depth dalvik stuff just finished
May 29 19:32:14 <umdk1d3-io> slides are online here
May 29 19:32:15 <umdk1d3-io> 13:21 < pcjjman-io> http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/
May 29 19:32:29 <trigatch4> yall will have to keep me posted so I can release some breaking news on phandroid.com ;)
May 29 19:32:32 <trigatch4> brb
May 29 19:33:19 <umdk1d3-io> trigatch4: you see new sdk shots from ydays keynote?
May 29 19:33:31 <umdk1d3-io> we psoted a bunch at that url above
May 29 19:40:52 <trigatch4> nice... only wish i had the audio to go along
May 29 19:40:58 <trigatch4> thanks umdk1d3-io
May 29 20:37:13 <f00f-> haha
May 29 20:37:19 <f00f-> "what was the intent of the map activity"
May 29 20:37:27 <f00f-> "purpose"
May 29 20:42:33 <umdk1d3-io> yay wireless
May 29 20:47:05 <htchien_> so people left for next session?
May 29 20:49:06 <f00f-> i like the music
May 29 20:49:51 <htchien_> so do I
May 29 20:50:26 <htchien_> ok, I'm here for the Mobile Mashup
May 29 20:50:38 <f00f-> htchien_: come to the right side
May 29 20:51:08 <htchien> I'm on the left side already
May 29 20:51:16 <f00f-> boo
May 29 20:55:14 <f00f-> do you know if the android fireside chat is in this room, too?
May 29 20:56:04 <htchien> I think it's in another room
May 29 20:57:03 <htchien> it's in FireChat room
May 29 20:57:28 <f00f-> level  2?
May 29 20:57:34 <htchien> yes
May 29 21:04:35 <htchien> Chicago Crime Data System?
May 29 21:04:40 <romainguy> re
May 29 21:04:51 <f00f-> nice, i remember reading abot this
May 29 21:10:33 <f00f-> you at i/o romain?
May 29 21:11:21 <f00f-> wait, is dan using Comic Sans as his font in eclipse?!
May 29 21:11:30 <f00f-> ok nvm, he increased font size
May 29 21:11:31 <f00f-> whew
May 29 21:11:33 <htchien> :)
May 29 21:12:02 <umdk1d3-io> looool
May 29 21:12:18 <htchien> lol
May 29 21:13:25 <Dougie187> f00f- no romain is in france
May 29 21:14:18 <f00f-> oh right, vacation
May 29 21:14:22 <Dougie187> yup
May 29 21:33:26 <tomgibara> I'm shocked by that presentation, specifically that there's no JIT.
May 29 21:34:03 <f00f-> hahahaha wtf
May 29 21:34:12 <tomgibara> The lack of commitment to that I think effectively means that I will need to terminate my development of Moseycode for Android.
May 29 21:34:34 <f00f-> ok this guy is building my app in 10 minutes
May 29 21:36:36 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 21:37:00 <htchien> lol
May 29 21:47:25 <f00f-> "hard drive" ?
May 29 21:47:39 <f00f-> rofl
May 29 21:48:56 <htchien> maybe "massive storage"....
May 29 21:57:39 <htchien> leaving for FireChat already?
May 29 22:06:56 <htchien> Room 3 topic: Google Web Toolkit with Android and OpenSocial
May 29 22:17:44 <umdk1d3-io> rawr in fireside
May 29 22:17:49 <umdk1d3-io> its paaaaaacked lol
May 29 22:26:55 <umdk1d3-io> "we woulndt have done our job if we didnt provide a methhod for deveopers to get their applications out ot users"
May 29 22:26:58 <umdk1d3-io> AHA!!!
May 29 22:33:03 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 22:33:50 <Dougie187> that is a joke and a half
May 29 22:39:20 <umdk1d3-io> ooh bringign up new sdk
May 29 22:39:28 <Dougie187> nice
May 29 22:49:54 <romainguy> tomgibara: I'm shocked by that presentation, specifically that there's no JIT. << how is that shocking?
May 29 22:50:44 <tomgibara> romainguy: I'm shocked that (if I understand the slides correctly) there's no intention of adding one
May 29 22:51:03 <romainguy> not soon
May 29 22:51:20 <romainguy> a JIT is a lot of work and doesn't have only advantages
May 29 22:51:28 <tomgibara> not before the first handsets are launched I assume
May 29 22:51:32 <romainguy> for instance, it requires quite a lot of memory
May 29 22:51:42 <romainguy> which can be painful on mobile phones
May 29 22:51:55 <romainguy> now the good news is Android performance are actually very good on actual hardware
May 29 22:52:49 <tomgibara> I appreciate that there are trade offs with JITing and memory can be one of them, but I think there remain compelling reasons for them
May 29 22:53:07 <tomgibara> or rather, compelling reasons why performance really matters:
May 29 22:53:16 <romainguy> performance matters
May 29 22:53:28 <romainguy> but we use Android everyday on actual hardware, so we know what performance is like
May 29 22:53:35 <romainguy> that doesn
May 29 22:53:41 <romainguy> that doesn't mean a JIT would not be awesome
May 29 22:53:48 <tomgibara> In my growing experience of sofwtare development, I've come to recognize performance as one of the cornerstones of code reusability
May 29 22:54:05 <romainguy> I'm just saying it is not necessary right now to deliver a good user experience
May 29 22:54:31 <romainguy> in many profilings I've done, the application was not always CPU-bound
May 29 22:54:45 <romainguy> a cell phone hardware is slow at so many levels...
May 29 22:55:22 <tomgibara> Obviously my application is somewhat different in character than many but...
May 29 22:56:05 <romainguy> unfortunately I have to admit heavy image processing is not the kind of application I have in mind when I profile Android's framework :)
May 29 22:56:42 <romainguy> My point is just that: JIT are great, but they have tradeoffs (one being the amount of work it requires) and actual performance are good today on real hardware
May 29 22:57:44 <tomgibara> talking generally, and not about my application, not providing an effective way for code to be 'fast' actually subtly limits the scope for development on the platform
May 29 22:58:24 <tomgibara> because it limits reuse, not because it's necessarily slow for end users
May 29 22:58:38 <romainguy> a JIT is not the only way to make code fast
May 29 22:59:01 <romainguy> btw, did anybody got the new SDK here?
May 29 22:59:05 <romainguy> f00f-?
May 29 22:59:16 <Dougie187> umdk1d3-io said he was going for it earlier.
May 29 22:59:27 <Dougie187> have you heard if the rest of the community can get access to it yet?
May 29 22:59:34 <romainguy> I cannot answer that question
May 29 22:59:37 <Dougie187> i was expecting to hear an announcement last friday or tuesday.
May 29 22:59:39 <Dougie187> heh
May 29 22:59:43 <romainguy> :)
May 29 23:00:02 <Dougie187> i just remember jasonchen saying the announcement would be made Tuesday EOD at the latest.
May 29 23:00:06 <tomgibara> My understanding is that the interpreter has an overhead of 20 cycles for any operation, is that true?
May 29 23:00:06 <htchien> :)
May 29 23:00:09 <Dougie187> and still... no announcement.
May 29 23:00:31 <romainguy> tomgibara: that number is probably outdated
May 29 23:01:08 <donomo>  
May 29 23:01:40 <tomgibara> even if it's more like 5 or 10, it means that for simple arithmetic operations the interpreter loop is eating most of of your CPU time
May 29 23:02:06 <tomgibara> Basically, the interpreter puts a pretty hard floor underneath the possible performance.
May 29 23:02:33 <tomgibara> As you optimize your code down to simpler operations, the interpreter overhead grows rapidly
May 29 23:02:50 <romainguy> sure
May 29 23:02:51 <romainguy> but again
May 29 23:02:56 <romainguy> a JIT has drawbacks too
May 29 23:03:15 <romainguy> if using a JIT means we need to kick out other apps more often because of memory usage, that's not a performance improvement
May 29 23:03:29 <romainguy> I'm not defending an interpreter against a JIT
May 29 23:03:47 <romainguy> I'm just saying that a JIT is not necessarily a magical solution on this environment
May 29 23:03:55 <romainguy> believe me, we care a lot about performance
May 29 23:04:11 <tomgibara> I understand that in any worthwhile engineering problem, the issues and tradeoffs are always subtle
May 29 23:04:36 <romainguy> but right now, there are many things that can be done (and must be done) that are much more easy and important than having a JIT
May 29 23:05:07 <romainguy> (again, not in your case)
May 29 23:05:32 <tomgibara> Yes, it wasn't a tantrum that caused me to make my comment, just an acceptance of the facts.
May 29 23:05:41 <romainguy> I totally understand
May 29 23:05:57 <tomgibara> A company have independently implemented Moseycode for the iPhone and comfortably get 20fps
May 29 23:06:11 <tomgibara> That's the stark reality for me to deal with.
May 29 23:06:29 <romainguy> Until you've tried to run Moseycode on an Android phone that has the equivalent hardware...
May 29 23:06:41 <romainguy> the iPhone has pretty beefy hardware for a phone :(
May 29 23:07:47 <tomgibara> Yes, which is why I feel compelled to halt development until I have a production ready (or nearly) phone to run it on.
May 29 23:08:05 <tomgibara> I'm pretty cut up about it because I love the platform.
May 29 23:08:30 <romainguy> Why are you compelled to halt?
May 29 23:08:51 <tomgibara> I think I've done a really good job in designing the symbology etc. and the specifications and there are many things that people want to do with the platform.
May 29 23:09:24 <tomgibara> I don't have a job at the moment, I'm a floating consultant/contractor, so I really have to justify the time I spend
May 29 23:09:51 <tomgibara> Both for my family and for other developers who believe in Moseycode and have commited their time to it.
May 29 23:09:52 <romainguy> ah  yes that I can understand
May 29 23:11:46 <tomgibara> Irrationally, I had predicted some form of targetted AOT compiler that could take annotated methods and compile them
May 29 23:12:11 <romainguy> I thought about that too :)
May 29 23:14:24 <tomgibara> Well, if you know a company that's looking for an eager Android developer... that might be my only route to continuing with the platform in the short term.
May 29 23:14:35 <tomgibara> I really have never had as much fun creating client focused applications, as I have with Android
May 29 23:15:05 <romainguy> I'm glad to hear that :)
May 29 23:15:52 <tomgibara> Thanks for the talk.
May 29 23:24:32 <romainguy> umdk1d3-io: are you around?
May 29 23:24:43 <tomgibara> romainguy: btw - I just saw your question above, I actually have the new SDK because I'm helping out one of the phase 1 winners. Any reason for asking?
May 29 23:25:10 <romainguy> yes
May 29 23:25:19 <romainguy> can I send you a private message?
May 29 23:25:58 <tomgibara> sure
May 29 23:26:08 <romainguy> done :)
May 29 23:32:33 <umdk1d3-io> ooh its tom
May 29 23:32:45 <umdk1d3-io> tom you here at io?
May 29 23:34:49 <umdk1d3-io> patching sys partiton wriitng, base firmare foor radio updates, and app install
May 29 23:35:04 <Dougie187> umdk1d3-io did you get the new sdk?
May 29 23:35:06 <umdk1d3-io> those are the 4 types of updates supported
May 29 23:35:16 <umdk1d3-io> yep it was a bit slow
May 29 23:35:22 <umdk1d3-io> ohwait crap
May 29 23:35:23 <Dougie187> is it pretty sweet so far?
May 29 23:35:32 <umdk1d3-io> ami azlowed tosaythat lol
May 29 23:35:40 <Dougie187> lol
May 29 23:35:41 <Dougie187> ionno
May 29 23:35:44 <Dougie187> ask romainguy
May 29 23:35:53 <umdk1d3-io> needd to look bax at nda
May 29 23:35:57 <Dougie187> heh
May 29 23:36:09 <umdk1d3-io> i was on a cra'ppy celeron lappie
May 29 23:36:19 <Dougie187> `heh
May 29 23:36:20 <Dougie187> it happens
May 29 23:37:05 <umdk1d3-io> almost done with fireside sessn
May 29 23:37:47 <Dougie187> cool
May 29 23:37:52 <Dougie187> is it good?
May 29 23:38:11 <umdk1d3-io> lots of good qauestions
May 29 23:38:21 <umdk1d3-io> stupid nokia kbdlol-
May 29 23:38:29 <Dougie187> i hope theres a video of it up soon
May 29 23:38:30 <umdk1d3-io> tiny little bugger
May 29 23:38:41 <umdk1d3-io> i heard 2wks as a rumor
May 29 23:38:46 <umdk1d3-io> public utube
May 29 23:40:55 <umdk1d3-io> ooh for later  uma and sip
May 29 23:48:23 <romainguy> any news from jasta btw?
May 29 23:48:39 <Dougie187> nope
May 29 23:48:46 <Dougie187> havent talked to him since yesterday morning
May 29 23:49:04 <romainguy> he seemed so eager to meet the Android team and talk about the new SDK... :)
May 29 23:49:14 <Dougie187> hah
May 29 23:49:20 <Dougie187> i dont know if you mean talk.
May 29 23:49:24 <Dougie187> and meet.
May 29 23:49:30 <romainguy> lol
May 29 23:49:35 <Dougie187> as in hold hostage and negotiate the public release of.
May 29 23:49:41 <Dougie187> then i would agree.
May 29 23:50:27 <umdk1d3-io> looool
May 29 23:50:43 <umdk1d3-io> actually jasta just walked past me like 5mins ago
May 29 23:50:47 <Dougie187> heh
May 29 23:50:55 <umdk1d3-io> i guess he was heading home
May 29 23:51:51 <Dougie187> did he enjoy the sessions
May 29 23:52:15 <umdk1d3-io> ithink he did
May 29 23:52:18 <Dougie187> thats good.
May 29 23:52:28 <Dougie187> i know he was not really looking forward to them before he left.
May 30 01:25:16 <trigatch4> whats up people?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 30 02:59:57 2008