**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 30 02:59:57 2008
May 30 05:06:33 <ignu_> hello any body can help me out
May 30 05:06:56 <ignu_> i have a problem in my android
May 30 05:07:08 <ignu_> Application Home not responding
May 30 05:09:57 <ignu_> i cant see maps on my android
May 30 06:06:09 <umdk1d3-io> rawr sleep time
May 30 07:14:18 <NiZoX> hi
May 30 07:14:40 <NiZoX> new version of android here: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/28/live-from-google-io/
May 30 07:17:23 <Hai-Fai> don't make my heart explode saying that.. on this channel it means that you have a new sdk and one can go and download it from there
May 30 07:17:49 <duey> indeed
May 30 07:20:16 <NiZoX> :D
May 30 09:42:27 <cutmasta> does somebody know if enkin won?
May 30 09:42:33 <cutmasta> if not, i know why
May 30 09:42:35 <cutmasta> perhaps
May 30 09:42:50 <duey> they didn't
May 30 09:43:14 <cutmasta> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PRfVKzuUJ4
May 30 09:43:23 <cutmasta> google did nearly the same job
May 30 09:43:33 <cutmasta> excluding real time video capture
May 30 09:43:37 <duey> cutmasta, enkin were contacted by google
May 30 09:43:41 <cutmasta> perhaps thats the reasion
May 30 09:44:53 <romainguy> Enkin was not relying on the emulator alone
May 30 09:45:12 <romainguy> and the contest, I believe, required to use only the emulator/SDK
May 30 09:45:21 <cutmasta> romainguy, ah yes
May 30 09:45:24 <cutmasta> you are right
May 30 09:45:28 <cutmasta> thats also a possible reason
May 30 09:46:14 <romainguy> it has nothing to do with the fact that we have compass support in streetview
May 30 09:46:29 <romainguy> especially since most judges were not from Google
May 30 12:06:37 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 30 12:47:57 <Dougie187> good morning everyone
May 30 12:48:06 <volmarias> good morning
May 30 12:48:20 <Dougie187> How are you this morning?
May 30 12:49:23 <Hai-Fai> evening
May 30 12:50:02 <volmarias> alright
May 30 13:05:24 <Dougie187> maybe today we will get our announcement
May 30 14:02:19 <cant_get_started> hi I need some help with getting the SDK setup
May 30 14:02:36 <cant_get_started> i get the following error after installing
May 30 14:02:45 <Dougie187> are you on windows?
May 30 14:02:55 <cant_get_started> could not find \android.jar!
May 30 14:02:57 <cant_get_started> yes
May 30 14:03:08 <Dougie187> i cant help. sorry. dont have windows around.
May 30 14:03:14 <cant_get_started> :(
May 30 14:03:19 <cant_get_started> ty anyway
May 30 14:04:59 <Dougie187> what are you trying to run that gives you the android.jar error?
May 30 14:05:02 <cant_get_started> by any chance do you know
May 30 14:05:22 <cant_get_started> do I need to download and install the SDK and add the pugin to eclipse?
May 30 14:05:51 <Dougie187> well what are you trying to do?
May 30 14:06:00 <Dougie187> and you dont need to install the plugin to eclipse at all.
May 30 14:06:03 <Dougie187> thats just to help develop code.
May 30 14:06:06 <cant_get_started> just starting to learn
May 30 14:06:14 <Dougie187> but are you trying to run the emulator?
May 30 14:06:28 <cant_get_started> I get the error when I just open eclipse
May 30 14:07:00 <Dougie187> well. i would say thats something wrong with one of your paths or the way eclipse is set up.
May 30 14:07:17 <Dougie187> or maybe your android.jar file isnt in the place its supposed to be.
May 30 14:07:40 <Dougie187> did you add the tools directory to your path?
May 30 14:08:03 <cant_get_started> no
May 30 14:08:21 <Dougie187> you should try that.
May 30 14:08:29 <Dougie187> i dont know if it will fix your issue.
May 30 14:08:45 <Dougie187> but it might give you a place to start.
May 30 14:08:50 <Dougie187> ill brb i have to make a phone call.
May 30 14:09:01 <cant_get_started> kk
May 30 14:14:30 * cutmasta is away (away)
May 30 14:14:42 <cant_get_started> figured it out
May 30 14:14:53 <cant_get_started> just downloading the plugin is NOT enough
May 30 14:15:08 <cant_get_started> you need the sdk (which has the .jar file)
May 30 14:15:12 <cant_get_started> makes sense
May 30 14:21:57 <Dougie187> Oh hah.
May 30 14:21:58 <Dougie187> yeah
May 30 14:22:05 <Dougie187> You dont have to use Eclipse at all actually.
May 30 14:22:11 <Dougie187> thats just one of the many options to develop code.
May 30 14:23:02 <Dougie187> so its all working now?
May 30 14:30:05 <cant_get_started> yep
May 30 14:30:19 <cant_get_started> I am use to ecipse from php stuff
May 30 14:44:08 <Dougie187> thats good that its working now.
May 30 14:53:53 <TopoMorto> newbie question: HelloAndroid + eclipse problem, when i run the program i recive this error "Conversion to Dalvik format failed with error 1", could someone help please?
May 30 14:54:36 <umdk1d3-io> rawr
May 30 14:54:54 <umdk1d3-io> also detailed pics from dalvik sessn for those who couldnt make it:   http://flickr.com/photos/8326556@N08/
May 30 14:55:01 <umdk1d3-io> if ya didnt see the link yday
May 30 14:55:58 <Dougie187> are you back home umdk1d3-io?
May 30 14:59:46 <umdk1d3-io> not yet, hanging around the valley and cali for the next week
May 30 15:00:25 <umdk1d3-io> the adc2 private msg board already has like 2 dozen topics lol
May 30 15:00:26 <Dougie187> sounds like a nice vacation.
May 30 15:00:37 <Dougie187> adc2? as in adc round 2?
May 30 15:00:46 <umdk1d3-io> well adc1.2 or whatever lol
May 30 15:00:46 <Dougie187> or actually adc2?
May 30 15:00:49 <Dougie187> ok
May 30 15:00:49 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:00:52 <Dougie187> just making sure.
May 30 15:02:47 <volmarias> TopoMorto: That's strange.
May 30 15:02:58 <volmarias> have you searched the android discussion groups for that?
May 30 15:03:19 <volmarias> Also, is the eclipse plugin setup correctly?
May 30 15:04:36 <TopoMorto> volmarias, i have googled oround with no solotion :((
May 30 15:04:37 <volmarias> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/f24b9a56712239e9/5cf1dbc4444a4a7a
May 30 15:04:53 <volmarias> Thumbs.db is a file generated by Vista's Explorer, containing the thumbnails
May 30 15:04:53 <volmarias> of the image files in your res/drawable directory. the current SDK doesn't
May 30 15:04:56 <volmarias> deal correctly with these.
May 30 15:05:27 <volmarias> can you pastebin what the output is?
May 30 15:06:12 <TopoMorto> i'm using ubitu, yes, i will pastebin the output :)
May 30 15:06:19 <TopoMorto> *ubuntu
May 30 15:08:18 <TopoMorto> look here :) http://pastebin.com/d38b0b832
May 30 15:09:14 <volmarias> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/ac57ffcc35c0ae3d/f0c69ca27a104774?lnk=gst&q=dalvik+error+1#f0c69ca27a104774
May 30 15:09:21 <volmarias> haven't looked, but make sure it's using the right version of java
May 30 15:09:28 <volmarias> let me see now.
May 30 15:09:41 <volmarias> yeah
May 30 15:09:45 <volmarias> this looks a lot like this
May 30 15:09:46 <volmarias> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/ac57ffcc35c0ae3d/f0c69ca27a104774?lnk=gst&q=dalvik+error+1#f0c69ca27a104774
May 30 15:09:49 <volmarias> check your path
May 30 15:15:57 <jasta> hehe, intense
May 30 15:23:04 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta
May 30 15:23:12 <jasta> pretty fantastic really
May 30 15:23:22 <jasta> i had an awesome time at I/O
May 30 15:23:26 <jasta> iw as really surprised
May 30 15:23:57 <Dougie187> i heard you went to the android sessions as well
May 30 15:24:05 <jasta> actually not really
May 30 15:24:20 <jasta> i went to the Dalvik VM session and that was kind o fit
May 30 15:24:28 <Dougie187> heh
May 30 15:24:32 <jasta> i half passed out during the Mobile Mashups one.  I was just sitting there to avoid puking ;)
May 30 15:24:48 <volmarias> drink a lot I see
May 30 15:24:59 <jasta> oh yeah
May 30 15:25:03 <jasta> Wed night was insane
May 30 15:25:12 <jasta> i was out until 4am
May 30 15:25:24 <jasta> rolled with one of the Google employees
May 30 15:25:26 <Dougie187> hah yeah i heard you overslept for thursday too
May 30 15:25:40 <jasta> i didnt oversleep hehe, i knew i wasn't gonna be in until 11 :)
May 30 15:26:47 <volmarias> TopoMorto: working?
May 30 15:26:51 <Dougie187> haha
May 30 15:27:06 <jasta> during the fireside chat forum i was tempted to blast them about the SDK madness
May 30 15:27:07 <Dougie187> did you complain about android to your google buddy?
May 30 15:27:21 <TopoMorto> volmarias, it doen't look ;)) i will look again at it tomorrow :))
May 30 15:27:23 <Dougie187> yeah they still havent announced anything as far as public access to the new sdk
May 30 15:27:26 <jasta> the forum was just like 6 or 7 android engineer type guys and a bunch of people firing off questions
May 30 15:27:54 <jasta> but i honestly have just given up on the issue
May 30 15:28:04 <jasta> i'm not going to be able to change their mind
May 30 15:28:54 <jasta> i will say that i was unimpressed that Jason Chen had not prepared any response to me.
May 30 15:29:04 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:29:09 <jasta> he specifically mentioned that he'd like to talk to me about the issue to try to clear some things up
May 30 15:29:26 <jasta> which now i realize was disingenuous
May 30 15:29:56 <volmarias> Most unfortunate, they've insulted J. Random Hacker
May 30 15:30:09 <volmarias> the wrath of the FOSS community shall bear down upon them
May 30 15:30:23 <volmarias> from the depths of my parents basement, I curse thee!
May 30 15:30:38 <volmarias> from the bottom of my neckbeard, I spit at thee!
May 30 15:30:45 <volmarias> kidding
May 30 15:31:34 <jasta> i'm honestly just embarrassed fo rthem.  they won't confess to mismanagement of the issue, and yet they won't give any details.
May 30 15:31:57 <jasta> and i don't mean they as in Dan or Jason.
May 30 15:32:14 <volmarias> they're under pretty big time pressure, trying to have everything wrapped up so that HTC can launch their product
May 30 15:32:25 <volmarias> said product will probably involve some clever trade secret or another
May 30 15:32:38 <Dougie187> but still
May 30 15:32:39 <volmarias> and they don't want to deal with some people they've never heard of screaming for a buggy sdk
May 30 15:32:48 <Dougie187> we were supposed to get an announcement last friday or tuesday.
May 30 15:32:54 <volmarias> insisting that they'll sign an NDA, of which there may be dubious merit of keeping
May 30 15:33:05 <volmarias> surprise, slips happen
May 30 15:33:11 <volmarias> there is no android conspiracy or mismanagement
May 30 15:33:19 <Dougie187> they shouldnt have let the winners of ADC1 have access to it personally.
May 30 15:33:28 <Dougie187> (thats my opinion)
May 30 15:33:41 <Dougie187> i think they didnt think that through well enough.
May 30 15:33:42 <volmarias> I disagree, they want the winners to have their apps ready from the moment it launches
May 30 15:33:49 <Dougie187> what about the community?
May 30 15:33:51 <volmarias> they've performed a risk/reward analysis
May 30 15:33:57 <Dougie187> and all the 1738 apps  that didnt win
May 30 15:34:01 <Dougie187> or got into the top 25%?
May 30 15:34:07 <Dougie187> none of those will be ready.
May 30 15:34:14 <Dougie187> plus, they talk about how the SDK is buggy as hell.
May 30 15:34:19 <Dougie187> so how are apps going to be ready with that?
May 30 15:34:28 <volmarias> I'm assuming it will be updated as time goes by
May 30 15:34:31 <Dougie187> people are going to spend most of their time fixing the bugs rather then finishing their apps.
May 30 15:34:50 <volmarias> with explicit notices "XYZ isn't done yet, don't fucking touch it : ("
May 30 15:34:58 <Dougie187> heh
May 30 15:35:04 <Dougie187> i just think its a poor move.
May 30 15:35:12 <volmarias> they don't want the public to see a shitty, buggy sdk and think that it reflects the software as a whole
May 30 15:35:26 <Dougie187> well. they kinda screwed a lot of the public.
May 30 15:35:29 <Dougie187> well.
May 30 15:35:30 <Dougie187> not a lot.
May 30 15:35:33 <Dougie187> but the community.
May 30 15:35:36 <Dougie187> a good 1738 teams.
May 30 15:35:41 <volmarias> yeah
May 30 15:35:45 <volmarias> look
May 30 15:35:52 <volmarias> I'm going to say 1000 of those entries are crap
May 30 15:35:56 <volmarias> because I've seen my friend's entry
May 30 15:35:57 <Dougie187> heh
May 30 15:36:00 <volmarias> and it was barely functional crap
May 30 15:36:03 <volmarias> and somehow, he's at 50%?
May 30 15:36:05 <Dougie187> well then, 738
May 30 15:36:12 <Dougie187> well was it a decent idea?
May 30 15:36:21 <volmarias> to be honest
May 30 15:36:37 <volmarias> I'm willing to bet that there are less than 100 apps, INCLUDING rnd1 winners that are anywhere near ready for prime time
May 30 15:37:00 <volmarias> look at some of the choices they picked
May 30 15:37:01 <Dougie187> true, but they should allow all of them access to the new SDK.
May 30 15:37:03 <volmarias> Fashion closet?
May 30 15:37:04 <Dougie187> so they can all get ready.
May 30 15:37:07 <volmarias> seriously?
May 30 15:37:32 <volmarias> given the time alloted for round 1, I think they've decided that anyone who cares has already made their submission
May 30 15:37:42 <volmarias> and that the final entry reflects that
May 30 15:37:54 <Dougie187> i didnt make an entry.
May 30 15:38:01 <volmarias> neither did I
May 30 15:38:05 <Dougie187> i was hoping to spend some of the time this summer making an app for ADC2
May 30 15:38:07 <Dougie187> but now i cant.
May 30 15:38:09 <volmarias> obviously, you don't need the sdk bad enough.
May 30 15:38:43 <volmarias> remember, they're not running contests because that's a sooper neato keen way of giving back to the community
May 30 15:39:05 <volmarias> they're doing it because its an amazingly cheap way to A) get good launch software and B) get a group of people who are ready, willing, and able to do android dev, even with broken software
May 30 15:39:18 <Dougie187> theres jasonchen jasta.
May 30 15:39:18 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:39:50 <jasonchen> hmmm?
May 30 15:40:00 <Dougie187> I agree with your reasons. volmarias, but i think that A could be done a bit better.
May 30 15:40:03 <volmarias> jasta is very displeased that you ahve personally slighted him by not giving him personal access to the SDK
May 30 15:40:10 <Dougie187> no.
May 30 15:40:12 <Dougie187> thats not what he said.
May 30 15:40:16 <volmarias> I know.
May 30 15:40:20 <volmarias> I was being humorous
May 30 15:40:25 <Dougie187> oh.
May 30 15:40:28 <Dougie187> i couldnt tell.
May 30 15:40:28 <Dougie187> sorry
May 30 15:40:30 <volmarias> :(
May 30 15:40:46 <Dougie187> he was displeased that you didnt address his issues at IO
May 30 15:40:57 <volmarias> jasonchen: The non public sdk has A) broken and B) secret parts, and this is why only the ADC winners are given access, correct?
May 30 15:41:16 <Dougie187> totally i know that stuff volmarias
May 30 15:41:27 <volmarias> I am suggesting that ADC round 1 was used as a weeding process to choose who to show their dark secrets to
May 30 15:41:44 <volmarias> Dougie187 believes that everyone should see it anyway, or at least be given the option
May 30 15:42:01 <Dougie187> well ive told him that before.
May 30 15:42:05 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:42:05 <volmarias> also, your curly brace style is heresy.
May 30 15:42:12 <Dougie187> we have had a discussion.
May 30 15:42:25 <Dougie187> im just waiting for their announcement.
May 30 15:42:28 <jasonchen> you don't like our curly-brace style?
May 30 15:42:52 <volmarias> I meant Dougie187
May 30 15:42:56 <volmarias> but I'm sure your style is terrible too
May 30 15:43:04 <volmarias> I don't know, I can only decompile the bytecode
May 30 15:43:15 <volmarias> only I have the One True Curly Brace Style
May 30 15:43:30 <jasonchen> i guess all the apidemos weren't enough, eh?
May 30 15:43:42 <volmarias> oh, well, that slipped my mind.
May 30 15:43:48 <volmarias> you win this round....
May 30 15:43:57 * volmarias shakes fist
May 30 15:43:58 <jasonchen> eventually you'll have GBs worth of code to look through to see if we're curly-bracing the way you like :-P
May 30 15:44:04 <Dougie187> hey jasonchen, any idea about the announcement?
May 30 15:45:08 <jasonchen> Dougie187: just got into the office, so i need to talk to my compatriots to find out what's going on
May 30 15:45:26 <jasonchen> i've been shaking hands and giving talks for the last two days.
May 30 15:45:40 <Dougie187> so i hear.
May 30 15:45:40 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:45:41 <jasonchen> so i'm a bit out of the loop as to the day-to-day
May 30 15:46:01 <Dougie187> it happens.
May 30 15:46:50 <umdk1d3-io> hotel wireless sux lol
May 30 15:47:20 <jasonchen> umdk1d3-io: hopefully you don't have to pay for it. that's when it sucks the most.
May 30 15:47:36 <Dougie187> thats like stupid airport wireless.
May 30 15:47:40 <Dougie187> with that sprint crap
May 30 15:47:48 <umdk1d3-io> well i found some free wifi outsided moscone
May 30 15:48:00 <umdk1d3-io> linksys or slomethin lol-
May 30 15:48:06 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 15:48:23 <umdk1d3-io> everything wrappen in ssh/ssl of course ;)
May 30 15:49:13 <jasonchen> umdk1d3-io: if you're in SF there's a company putting up APs w/ the SSID "Free the Net" that should be open and available.
May 30 15:49:34 <umdk1d3-io> aha i saw one but it was too weak
May 30 15:49:42 <volmarias> totally weaksauce
May 30 15:49:48 <volmarias> speaking of sauce, lunchtime
May 30 15:50:58 <Dougie187> that it is
May 30 15:55:42 * TopoMorto is going to cook a very cool dish "Lasagne" :))
May 30 15:57:55 <jasta> umdk1d3-io: sup :)
May 30 16:01:14 <jasta> brb, getting ready for work
May 30 16:01:26 <jasta> man, i feel more hungover today than on thursday, but that makes no sense :)
May 30 16:16:48 <jasonchen> jasta: i have the same post-conference hangover. must have been something in the air at moscone. :-)
May 30 16:19:11 <jasta> i think it was the 4 sake bombs i did at some random sushi bar in the ghetto of SF
May 30 16:20:12 <jasta> Wed night was so insane
May 30 16:20:21 <jasta> I went out with Phil and one of his non-Google friends
May 30 16:20:53 <jasta> and my Loopt buddy and his gf
May 30 16:21:34 <jasta> we were in this dodgy neighborhood and we had the same idea that Dan presented the very next day
May 30 16:21:52 <jasta> about an app which combines your location with crime data by neighborhood
May 30 16:22:01 <jasta> to alert you when you should get a taxi and not hang out there drunk
May 30 16:22:15 <jasonchen> you must have been in the tenderloin
May 30 16:22:21 <jasta> i think the app would have been going mental where we were.  hardly any street lights, nothing open for at least 2 blocks
May 30 16:22:29 <jasta> we went to this place called Butter but it was closed down for some reason.
May 30 16:22:33 <jasta> we originally hit the Zeitgeist
May 30 16:22:40 <jasonchen> jasta: who do you know at loopt?  i've met sam altman and some other folks.
May 30 16:22:51 <jasta> then after we realized Butter was closed walked around a bit and hit this Sushi Bar called Dragon something I think
May 30 16:22:57 <jasta> then hit the Irish Bank
May 30 16:23:03 <jasta> and some 24 hour diner, and finally back to the hotel at 4am
May 30 16:23:21 <jasonchen> nice.  sounds like you made a good round of places in SoMa.
May 30 16:23:22 <jasta> I know Fred Potter, he was roaming around with me at I/O on Thursday.
May 30 16:24:13 <jasonchen> ah, ok. not sure i've met him before.
May 30 16:24:19 <jasta> he used to my roommate and stuff before he moved down there to work at Loopt
May 30 16:24:55 <jasonchen> cool.  are you still here in the bay area or back home?
May 30 16:25:06 <jasta> back home now
May 30 16:25:19 <jasta> i left thu night, i actually had to skip early on the android fireside chat
May 30 16:25:39 <jasonchen> ah, you missed out.  we had andy, steve, and 6 tech leads there.
May 30 16:25:48 <jasta> no i was there for a good chunk of it
May 30 16:25:59 <jasonchen> oh, right.  didn't quite grok that.
May 30 16:26:18 <jasta> i thought about causing trouble and asking about all this evilness
May 30 16:26:36 <jasta> but i decided i'd not make a memorable impression with Andy that way :)
May 30 16:26:43 <jasonchen> you should have. andy, et. al were there to answer tough questions.
May 30 16:27:26 <jasta> well, it didn't seem like it.
May 30 16:27:44 <jasta> most of the tough questions that had a lot of unknowns got kind of dodged answers
May 30 16:27:57 <jasta> like "well, the OHA can do what it wants." which is basically "no comment."
May 30 16:28:44 <jasta> i do appreciate the general strategy, though.  a heavy handed approach would never work against the current US telcos
May 30 16:29:26 <jasta> but i think we all know what that means for Android right out of the gate
May 30 16:30:20 <morrildl> oh goodie
May 30 16:30:32 <morrildl> did I come in the middle of another "fun" discussion? ;)
May 30 16:30:57 <jasonchen> jasta: what's that?
May 30 16:30:59 <dmoffett> jasta: are you going to leave us hanging?
May 30 16:31:55 <jasta> i was brushing my teeth
May 30 16:31:59 <dmoffett> Apple seemed to be able to get things from AT&T.  It seems like Google would have some leverage as well.
May 30 16:32:12 <jasta> jasonchen: that Android will just be another software platform running atop the very traditional business model of existing carriers and manufacturers.
May 30 16:32:36 <jasta> That it would be reasonably locked to a particular carrier, would not have a shot of otherwise extending openness of the network or its features, etc.
May 30 16:33:13 <Dougie187> nice im back
May 30 16:33:15 <Dougie187> now i get to catch up
May 30 16:34:17 <jasta> morrildl eluded to precisely that while i talked to him at I/O.  Android is not in the business of clubbing the industry into openness, merely by hoping they adopt it naturally from their "good" example.
May 30 16:34:50 <jasta> So, it would not be reasonable to assume Android, as it starts, will have changed much.
May 30 16:35:17 <dmoffett> Internet access outside of the cell networks will force the cell companies into more open access
May 30 16:35:41 <jasta> Eventually, yeah I think that's likely to happen.
May 30 16:35:54 <jasta> but I don't think Android will be an immediate catalyst to any great change in the industry at large.
May 30 16:36:19 <dmoffett> Market forces are even more powerful than even big companies as we have seen.
May 30 16:36:35 <morrildl> yes, Google is not a telecom company, we don't pretend to know how to be one, and we don't really aim come out of the gate and destroy business models. We're in it for the long haul
May 30 16:37:02 <muthu> good IO
May 30 16:37:14 <morrildl> besides, historically revolutions have a high risk of replacing one bad status quo with another
May 30 16:37:14 <jasta> Right and as I said, that is why I think we can all reasonably assume what Android will be out of the gate.
May 30 16:37:19 <muthu> android chat was cool
May 30 16:37:27 <jasta> A phone, nothing remarkable otheriwse.
May 30 16:37:40 <morrildl> jasta: well, a phone and a ton of source code, at least :)
May 30 16:38:06 <jasta> i was disappointed to hear that Google apps would not be part of that source.
May 30 16:38:15 <jasta> what about all the other utilities?
May 30 16:39:14 <jasta> bbl, heading into work
May 30 16:44:50 <morrildl> Whether the Google apps will be open sourced is not a decision that's made yet. It could go either way
May 30 17:02:12 <jasta> you were the one that said they were in a separate source tree and are not otherwise being considered when you say that the platform will be open sourced
May 30 17:20:35 <volmarias> Actually, I've got a few questions that i'd like answered.
May 30 17:20:56 <volmarias> how will the OHA prevent the balkanization of the platform in the same way that J2ME is
May 30 17:21:15 <volmarias> programming for j2me involves tons and tons of ifdefs because no one has the asme standards
May 30 17:21:27 <volmarias> meanwhile, manufacturers and vendors will actually be CUTTING parts of the sdk
May 30 17:21:54 <volmarias> Also, for touch screen only phones, how does the keyboard work?
May 30 17:23:14 <jasta> the short answer is that there is no protection against the evils of this industry
May 30 17:24:00 <jasta> the long answer is that there REALLY is no protection against the evils of this industry :)  Google is just releasing it for the carriers and manufacturers to butcher and abuse to their whim, which will certainly yield a less than satisfactory result.
May 30 17:25:55 <volmarias> right
May 30 17:26:12 <volmarias> so, the keyboard
May 30 17:26:15 <volmarias> how does that one work
May 30 18:01:01 <jasta> lol, i have 50 voicemails at work
May 30 18:01:09 <jasta> don't these fools know that i never check my voicemail?
May 30 18:18:36 <romainguy> re
May 30 18:21:17 <jasta> hey romain, we missed you at I/O :)
May 30 18:21:28 <jasta> how was/is vacation?
May 30 18:21:31 <romainguy> good :)
May 30 18:23:08 <romainguy> did you enjoy I/O?
May 30 18:23:19 <jasta> yeah actually i did
May 30 18:23:35 <jasta> it was fun, which was most important of all to me
May 30 18:23:57 <romainguy> cool, glad to hear that
May 30 18:23:59 <jasta> obviously i learned nothing about Android, though.  the sessions were pretty elementary.
May 30 18:24:19 <romainguy> it's not obvious, but sure :)
May 30 18:24:28 <romainguy> (for instance the Dalvik talk :p)
May 30 18:24:32 <jasta> the free food and drinks sure helped with my hangover on Thursday, too ;)
May 30 18:24:42 <jasta> actually, the Dalvik talk was the main one i wanted to catch.
May 30 18:24:52 <jasta> and i did, but it was much more obvious and generic than i expected.
May 30 18:25:10 <jasta> it started out strong, with details about the file format and execution approach
May 30 18:25:37 <jasta> but ultimately the pieces i was intrigued about, how it fits in particular into Android handsets, was generalized.
May 30 18:26:27 <jasta> the advice section boiled down to: "don't allocate unnecessary and iterate intelligently", which should be obvious to anyone.
May 30 18:26:30 <jasta> unnecessarily*
May 30 18:26:41 <romainguy> unfortunately it is not obvious
May 30 18:26:55 <romainguy> (to everyone I mean)
May 30 18:27:09 <jasta> but all in all, yeah, i had a great time.
May 30 18:27:21 <jasta> meeting pawalls was a big highlight for me, i went out drinking with him wed night
May 30 18:27:28 <romainguy> http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=732 << when I see that kind of bug report... @!#
May 30 18:29:36 <jasta> hehe, i don't even understand what he's hinting at.  what did he expect, that 60% of the time would be spent in his code doing trivial processing of the data?
May 30 18:30:11 <romainguy> my take is that when you parse an XML file that occupies 4 MB when gzipped and that file is read across the network, all that on a cellphone, you are in big trouble
May 30 18:30:12 <jasta> also, seriously?  a 4.4MB gzipped XML file?  christ ;)
May 30 18:30:56 <jasta> romainguy: right, but the more suprising point is that he otherwise did not expect the gzip and XML parsing routines to dominate the CPU usage.
May 30 18:31:06 <romainguy> true
May 30 18:31:33 <jasta> because the layering of his problem probably looks like gunzip -> XML parser -> trivially index or store.
May 30 18:31:49 <jasta> how he would not expect the first 2 steps to be the most demanding is odd.
May 30 18:32:08 <jasta> anyway
May 30 18:32:22 <romainguy> ah
May 30 18:32:32 <romainguy> ArsTechnica got the Home shortcuts description right: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080530-android-struts-its-stuff-with-new-features-more-integration.html
May 30 18:32:36 <jasta> romainguy: i ultimately was well behaved at I/O, if you're curious
May 30 18:32:38 <romainguy> it's the only correct description I've read
May 30 18:34:00 <jasta> i did not quite "get" the keynote.
May 30 18:34:23 <romainguy> how so?
May 30 18:34:27 <jasta> i mean, the Android part in particular.  everyone is so excited by what they saw of the phone, but it doesn't seem hardly different from M5 that we saw running on reference boards?
May 30 18:34:50 <jasta> the home screen UI is barely different, and the introduction of sliding around to various workspaces is neat but otherwise not very huge.
May 30 18:34:57 <jasta> other than that, all the UI looked the same to me
May 30 18:35:00 <romainguy> the Home screen is very different :p
May 30 18:35:05 <jasta> and he didn't demo much.  just maps?
May 30 18:36:16 <jasta> i dunno, maybe i'm just not impressed by the demo approach.  we didn't see much new meat.
May 30 18:37:22 <davidw> jasta, so how'd google IO go?
May 30 18:38:26 <jasta> it was good
May 30 18:38:28 <jasta> very fun
May 30 18:38:47 <jasta> the conference itself was not anything special, though
May 30 18:38:53 <davidw> I was impressed by this:
May 30 18:38:54 <davidw> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/28/live-from-google-io/
May 30 18:38:54 <jasta> but meeting people, hanging out, that was great
May 30 18:39:21 <jasta> see, i just don't get the demo of the andorid phone
May 30 18:39:24 <davidw> Google is betting on browser over time for mobile devices; it will be the entry point for many applications.
May 30 18:39:26 <jasta> i was happy to see a real phone being shown
May 30 18:39:29 <jasta> but they showed VERY little
May 30 18:39:40 <davidw> I was kind of floored by that
May 30 18:39:53 <jasta> oh well
May 30 18:40:03 <davidw> imagine having the resources to think one thing, but tear off on a very serious effort in another direction 'in the meantime'
May 30 18:40:15 <davidw> or maybe android is there way of getting the browser there faster
May 30 18:40:17 <romainguy> jasta: well it's Google I/O, not Android I/O :)
May 30 18:40:22 <davidw> but damn... that's a lot of money
May 30 18:40:28 <davidw> there/their
May 30 18:40:58 <jasta> i didn't dislike what i saw, i had just hoped to see something other than maps
May 30 18:40:59 <davidw> romainguy, these kinds of conferences always seem to cater to the entry level
May 30 18:41:06 <jasta> like, something we havent seen yet
May 30 18:41:08 <jasta> maybe calendar, email, etc.
May 30 18:41:26 <davidw> I was actually impressed by Dan and Jason in Munich in that they left plenty of time for questions about *intereting* things, rather than just hello world
May 30 18:41:45 <jasta> Dan and Jason kind of pissed me off at I/O.
May 30 18:42:03 <jasta> They prepared nothing to field my concerns, despite assurances to the contrary.
May 30 18:42:39 <jasta> Jason in particular claimed last week to be looking forward to talking with me personally about some of these details at I/O.
May 30 18:42:55 <jasta> Then when I had the platform to ask, he just gave me the "we have no details" answer that we've been given before.
May 30 18:43:14 <jasta> And regarding the announcement that was promised on Tuesday, he just simply reiterated his boiler plate "we have no details" answer.
May 30 18:43:57 <jasta> I suppose it was naive to expect otherwise, but I wish they would not further deceive us.
May 30 18:44:50 <romainguy> it's not necessarily on purpose jasta
May 30 18:44:52 <jasta> Dan did, thanfkully, clarify where the line was in the sand between open source and closed with the release.
May 30 18:45:03 <romainguy> Google/OHA is big
May 30 18:45:05 <jasta> and it is where i expected.
May 30 18:45:26 <jasta> i can appreciate that, but if their position is generally uninformed then there is no reason to pretend otherwise.
May 30 18:45:37 <romainguy> things might just change...
May 30 18:45:48 <romainguy> anyway, dinner time
May 30 18:50:37 <davidw> jasta, they do have Corporate Overlords, you know
May 30 20:04:27 <Dougie187> Any news yet?
May 30 20:05:48 <jasta> on?
May 30 20:05:54 <Dougie187> the announcement.
May 30 20:06:08 <jasta> oh, lol, that won't be coming :)
May 30 20:06:11 <Dougie187> :(
May 30 20:06:14 <jasta> Jason just made all that up, I think
May 30 20:08:21 <jasta> umdk1d3-io: *poke*
May 30 20:13:54 <Dougie187> well that makes me a sad panda.
May 30 20:15:40 <jasta> lol
May 30 20:15:42 <jasta> yeah me too ;)
May 30 20:17:15 <Dougie187> do you know what timezone kentucky is in?
May 30 20:24:29 <wastrel> hihi.  is there an expectation that android phones will sync with linux PIM's (kontact, evolution, other?)
May 30 20:29:21 <muthu> wastrel: what do you mean by sync?
May 30 20:30:10 <muthu> anyone confirm that the linux version is working?
May 30 20:30:13 <wastrel> muthu: contacts and calendar syncronization
May 30 20:31:04 <muthu> wastrel:  dont know about that
May 30 20:32:01 <muthu> i just put the new sdk together in linux, but nothing seems to work
May 30 20:32:14 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 20:32:20 <Dougie187> i think umdk1d3-io used it.
May 30 20:32:21 <muthu> romainguy: is the linux version working?
May 30 20:32:24 <Dougie187> and another guy.
May 30 20:32:35 <muthu> Dougie187: is it on linux?
May 30 20:33:09 <Dougie187> i think
May 30 20:34:09 <muthu> ok.. got a reply
May 30 20:34:15 <muthu> the emulator needs a flag
May 30 20:34:24 <muthu> an option to set system dir
May 30 20:34:36 <muthu> why can't it just work like before?
May 30 20:39:19 <jasta> muthu: umdk1d3-io told me at I/O that the linux version seems busted at least
May 30 20:39:22 <jasta> maybe the others work
May 30 20:39:41 <muthu> jasta: david said they fixed it
May 30 20:39:49 <muthu> may be i'll try downloading again
May 30 20:40:00 <jasta> wastrel: i don't think google has it in their mind to do much physical synchronization with Android.  i think they're going to do much more network-based syncing of data.
May 30 20:40:50 <jasta> muthu: did you notice that f00f disappeared pretty early on the first day?
May 30 20:41:03 <jasta> i saw him once and only for about those 30 minutes we were all standing there
May 30 20:41:09 <muthu> haha
May 30 20:41:19 <muthu> f00f-: was there at the party
May 30 20:41:27 <jasta> the google party?
May 30 20:41:34 <muthu> yeah, he was looking for you
May 30 20:41:40 <jasta> i left that at 8 to meet back up with pawalls and my friend
May 30 20:41:55 <jasta> i didn't intend to stick around for long
May 30 20:42:04 <muthu> so how did it go?
May 30 20:42:14 <muthu> late night party!!!
May 30 20:42:33 <muthu> even yesterday we got together
May 30 20:42:34 <jasta> oh my god man
May 30 20:42:37 <jasta> i was so f'ing wasted ;)
May 30 20:42:41 <muthu> lol
May 30 20:42:45 <jasta> i didnt get back to my hotel until 4am
May 30 20:42:51 <muthu> woah
May 30 20:43:15 <muthu> where you went?
May 30 20:43:19 <jasta> we left I/O at like 8pm, met pawalls in front of the moscone and headed to Zeitgeist
May 30 20:43:56 <jasta> a few pitchers there, then we went to this place called Butter but it was closed
May 30 20:44:21 <muthu> then..
May 30 20:44:52 <jasta> so we wandered around for a bit and stopped into this place for a quick refresher round
May 30 20:45:00 <jasta> turned out to be a fancy sushi bar in the middle of nowhere
May 30 20:45:04 <jasta> so we ordered sake bombs
May 30 20:45:12 <jasta> but we were so drunk and the waitress didn't relaly understand us
May 30 20:45:19 <jasta> so she brought us like 4 times more booze than we expected
May 30 20:45:26 <jasta> so we just hung out there doing round after round of sake bombs
May 30 20:45:31 <jasta> the waitress even came in and did 1 round with us
May 30 20:45:39 <jasta> it turned out to be totally awesome.  we were very popular at this place :)
May 30 20:45:49 <jasta> then we rolled to the Irish Bank and drank until they closed
May 30 20:45:56 <muthu> haha
May 30 20:46:02 <jasta> that bar is awesome btw.  they have this hollowed out confessional booth that has a table in it
May 30 20:46:09 <jasta> then we went to the naan and curry
May 30 20:46:16 <muthu> suggest me some bars
May 30 20:46:18 <jasta> and then back to the hotel
May 30 20:46:22 <wastrel> jasta: i'm used to PDA, not had a smartphone yet.  I expect to be able to enter contacts through a desktop app and sync them to my mobile, and vice-versa
May 30 20:46:54 <jasta> wastrel: yeah, and that may or may not be supported.  what is more likely, though, is that your e-mail, calendar, and contacts will all be synchronized from some other source on the net.  through google services most likely.
May 30 20:47:01 <jasta> or perhaps from other sources, like exchange.
May 30 20:47:27 <jasta> muthu: well, i don't know if your night life style would mesh with mine
May 30 20:47:35 <jasta> zeitgeist was cool, they have this whole outside section
May 30 20:47:41 <jasta> but it's super dirty and ghetto, like a good bar should be
May 30 20:47:46 <muthu> haha
May 30 20:47:47 <jasta> and the cook will yell at you.
May 30 20:48:00 <muthu> great, that's where i'm going
May 30 20:48:16 <jasta> but the irish bank was a pretty typical irish pub.  it was a cool vibe.
May 30 20:48:26 <jasta> it had*
May 30 20:48:39 <jasta> there was this Thai restuarant and bar near my hotel too that i went to the first night
May 30 20:48:45 <jasta> seemed a bit trendy, but pretty cute girls there
May 30 20:48:47 <jasta> both working and not
May 30 20:49:00 <jasta> i forgot what that was called, but it was really close to the marriott
May 30 20:49:32 <jasta> and Phil (pawalls) was at some Mojito bar before he met up with us after the conference.  dunno if that was any good
May 30 20:49:41 <muthu> mojito
May 30 20:49:49 <muthu> is good
May 30 20:50:00 <jasta> but oh man, we got so crunked up on wed.  it was a great time
May 30 20:50:14 <muthu> we had a good time yesterday
May 30 20:50:14 <jasta> this is the first time i've ever met Phil in person, but i've known him online for almost a decade
May 30 20:50:31 <muthu> it was good to meet a lot of faces
May 30 20:50:48 <muthu> still i guess, missed a few
May 30 20:50:53 <jasta> apparently everyone expected me to look "angry" somehow.
May 30 20:51:02 <muthu> hehe
May 30 20:51:12 <muthu> yeah, we were all waiting for the angry young man
May 30 20:51:14 <muthu> :)
May 30 20:51:23 <jasta> i'm not angry at all, btw.
May 30 20:51:44 <muthu> you were cool
May 30 20:51:48 <jasta> i just don't like being pushed around, and i'm willing to say something about it.
May 30 20:52:03 <jasta> i finally met Jeffrey Sharkey
May 30 20:52:03 <muthu> you had some discussions going on
May 30 20:52:08 <jasta> he was pretty cool
May 30 20:52:24 <wastrel> jasta: i guess the open standard for sync is "SyncML", do you know if android is going to support that?
May 30 20:53:43 <jasta> wastrel: well, i don't know but i wrote a Java client-side SyncML library using WbXML
May 30 20:53:52 <jasta> my project uses SyncML to get data to and from the server
May 30 20:57:48 <Dougie187> hows the plugin going for rhythmbox jasta?
May 30 20:59:33 <jasta> pretty good, i am not al that near a functioanl test though
May 30 20:59:36 <jasta> lots of code to get in order
May 30 20:59:42 <Dougie187> yeah
May 30 21:00:02 <jasta> it's one of those things that since there's no UI, it will basically just start working all of the sudden
May 30 21:00:05 <Dougie187> hopefully i will get my laptop back soon.
May 30 21:00:06 <jasta> and be sort of done :)
May 30 21:00:13 <Dougie187> then i can help you out if you want.
May 30 21:22:40 <f00f-> so muthu how long did you guys end up hanging out at the v-whatever
May 30 21:22:44 <f00f-> at north beach?
May 30 21:22:49 <muthu> hehe
May 30 21:23:03 <muthu> until like 2
May 30 21:23:19 <f00f-> sweet
May 30 21:23:47 <muthu> good time
May 30 21:24:27 <f00f-> good good
May 30 21:24:30 <f00f-> how long are you here for?
May 30 21:24:36 <muthu> a month
May 30 21:24:37 <f00f-> end of june?
May 30 21:24:41 <muthu> yes
May 30 21:24:53 <f00f-> ok cool, we should try to organize another meetup
May 30 21:24:57 <f00f-> after i come back from amsterdam :)
May 30 21:25:04 <muthu> oh sure.. when would that be?
May 30 21:25:19 <f00f-> june 9th or later
May 30 21:25:25 <muthu> cool
May 30 21:32:08 <jasta> sup f00f
May 30 21:32:24 <f00f-> hey man
May 30 21:32:28 <f00f-> where did you disappear last night
May 30 21:32:39 <jasta> i went out drinking with phil and my friends in SF
May 30 21:32:49 <f00f-> phil ?
May 30 21:32:58 <jasta> pawalls in here, when he's here.
May 30 21:33:09 <jasta> some google guy
May 30 21:33:16 <f00f-> ooh ok
May 30 21:33:36 <jasta> i stuck around the after hours thing for an hour or two, though
May 30 21:33:40 <jasta> was shooting pool :)
May 30 21:33:49 <jasta> and prefunking on google's free beer
May 30 21:33:58 <f00f-> yeah for sure
May 30 21:34:02 <f00f-> that day
May 30 21:34:04 <f00f-> i took the train home
May 30 21:34:11 <f00f-> and realized how wonderful it is to be tanked
May 30 21:34:12 <f00f-> going under the bay
May 30 21:34:16 <jasta> you live in the bay area?
May 30 21:34:17 <f00f-> you can totally feel the acceleration
May 30 21:34:20 <f00f-> yeah, san jose
May 30 21:34:29 <jasta> i didn't know that
May 30 21:34:46 <jasta> you must've bounced early then?  train stops running at like 11?
May 30 21:35:14 <f00f-> i think i left around 10:30 or so
May 30 21:35:26 <f00f-> well they stop running at around 12
May 30 21:35:38 <f00f-> but it's a real bitch to get home if you take one of the last ones
May 30 21:35:45 <f00f-> have to sit somewhere in oakland for 30 minutes
May 30 21:35:46 <f00f-> to wait
May 30 21:36:07 <jasta> dude we were so messed up that night
May 30 21:36:11 <jasta> stayed out until 4am
May 30 21:36:29 <jasta> i didn't get in to the conference the next day until 11:30 hehe
May 30 21:36:40 <f00f-> hahaha nice
May 30 21:36:54 <f00f-> did you even stay for the concert on wednsedsay?
May 30 21:36:58 <f00f-> 'concert' heh
May 30 21:37:01 <jasta> no, i wasn't interested in that :)
May 30 21:37:14 <jasta> like i said earlier, a big part of the reason i chose to go to I/O was because my friend lives there
May 30 21:37:24 <jasta> so it would be super lame to not spend a significant amount of time with him
May 30 21:37:30 <f00f-> yeah for sure
May 30 21:37:42 <jasta> and Phil turned out to be much cooler than i expected
May 30 21:37:59 <jasta> i've known him for years online, he worked on an open source project i started a while back
May 30 21:38:09 <jasta> met him in person for the first time at I/O
May 30 21:38:16 <f00f-> oh on the gift stuff?
May 30 21:38:21 <jasta> yeah
May 30 21:38:30 <jasta> now he works for google
May 30 21:38:34 <f00f-> nice... never underestimate people :D
May 30 21:39:07 <jasta> i was hanging out with mostly Google employees the first day, actually
May 30 21:39:09 <jasta> that i met through him
May 30 21:39:15 <jasta> and some that i knew already
May 30 21:39:34 <f00f-> ahh
May 30 21:39:56 <f00f-> you know.. i had a complete different impression of you
May 30 21:39:57 <f00f-> before we met
May 30 21:40:16 <jasta> hehe, well, that makes sense ;)
May 30 21:40:24 <f00f-> i'd even go far to say... a 180 degree opposite view
May 30 21:40:25 <jasta> IRC isn't a great "first impression" medium ;)
May 30 21:40:30 <f00f-> agreed
May 30 21:40:53 <f00f-> but yeah, i definitely agree with all the points you brought up with dan
May 30 21:41:04 <f00f-> they really seem clueless as to what's happening 3+ months down the road
May 30 21:41:17 <jasta> i was in on the Android Fireside Chat Q&A thing and i elected against bringing them back up there
May 30 21:41:34 <f00f-> probably a wise decision :)
May 30 21:41:40 <jasta> just because i knew i'd get a run-around answer, and i frankly don't want to turn into some enemy of the energing team.
May 30 21:41:43 <jasta> err
May 30 21:41:50 <jasta> engineering* (my brain exploded apparently)
May 30 21:41:51 <Beryllium> energon team?
May 30 21:41:54 <Dougie187> i really wanna hear about the SDK thing.
May 30 21:41:57 <f00f-> yeh
May 30 21:42:12 <jasta> Dougie187: basically what i got out of Dan is what i expected to get out of Andy and the other folks up on stage.
May 30 21:42:19 <jasta> and that's that "we have no information".
May 30 21:42:36 <jasta> they appreciate that it's all fubar'd, but that they do not intend to explore a resolution
May 30 21:43:04 <jasta> though i think that from their position it is impossible to fully appreciate the gravity of this decision
May 30 21:43:37 <jasta> but, meh, they clearly won't be fixing it ;)
May 30 21:44:26 <jasta> f00f-: yeah, what's frustrating about the situation is that somebody obviously has this grand scheme and road map.
May 30 21:44:37 <jasta> that information just needs to find its way into the public
May 30 21:45:06 <muthu> there were a couple of information
May 30 21:45:12 <muthu> 1. adc 2 is next year
May 30 21:45:17 <jasta> Dougie187: one thing i did learn while i was there is that they clearly intend to produce some type of app store or distribution system.
May 30 21:45:25 <muthu> 2. sdk is opensourced end of this year
May 30 21:45:35 <jasta> we knew those 2 things already, though
May 30 21:45:42 <Dougie187> yeah i saw the app store thing on engadget
May 30 21:45:56 <muthu> adc 2, i thought would be this year
May 30 21:46:16 <f00f-> yeah, but someone will make their own app repo before google
May 30 21:46:32 <f00f-> apt-get goodness but completely on-device browsing of apps
May 30 21:46:36 <jasta> Dougie187: several times it was asked and confirmed that they will have an app store, though
May 30 21:47:13 <jasta> muthu: well, it wouldn't be before launch, and when a company says "second half of <x>", they mean december usually ;)
May 30 21:47:23 <jasta> and first half of <x> means June :)
May 30 21:47:33 <muthu> haha, right
May 30 21:47:55 <jasta> plus they're going to want to let the platform have some time to gain traction before they start
May 30 21:47:59 <jasta> which will be at least 2 months
May 30 21:48:27 <jasta> anyway, regarding the source i was happy to learn that the full platform stack will be open sourced.
May 30 21:48:56 <muthu> yeah, thats good
May 30 21:48:56 <jasta> although i believe that most if not all google apps will be closed, and of course all of the hardware drivers will be closed as well
May 30 21:49:19 <jasta> i was concerned that there would be pieces that would prevent open source enthusiasts from rolling their own completely
May 30 21:49:34 <jasta> but it looks like that won't be true, although they won't get much help from Google in that the Google apps may be unavailable.
May 30 21:49:51 <muthu> the feeling that i got is , google has the correct intentions
May 30 21:49:57 <jasta> though i can't imagine why most of the google apps would be closed.
May 30 21:50:03 <muthu> they're just taking their time to do it right
May 30 21:50:07 <jasta> i mean, they must be releasing MapView source, so why protect Google Maps?
May 30 21:50:20 <jasta> and why protect the browser since it's just that chrome layer on top of webkit?
May 30 21:50:34 <jasta> but meh, the apps aren't really as important as 100% of the platform stack
May 30 21:50:55 <jasta> the drivers are disappointing, of course, but perhaps with time the platform will encourage open source adoption of that hardware.
May 30 21:51:17 <jasta> anyway
May 30 21:51:33 <jasta> we should detacth from this rumor mill for a while
May 30 21:51:51 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 21:51:53 <Dougie187> yes.
May 30 21:51:54 <Dougie187> but
May 30 21:51:56 <Dougie187> if we do.
May 30 21:52:02 <Dougie187> we wont get our announcement!
May 30 21:52:05 <f00f-> well drivers can contain proprietary IP anyway to control the radio, baseband, etc.
May 30 21:52:35 <dmoffett> It is worlds better than what iPhone is offering and hopefully that will give android the needed boost to compete with the iPhone.
May 30 21:52:53 <dmoffett> more than a few of the developers I talked to are porting to iPhone.
May 30 21:53:32 <Dougie187> i dont know that the iPhone should be the focus of competition.
May 30 21:53:42 <Dougie187> personally.
May 30 21:53:57 <Dougie187> i mean it is a big competitor, but it doesnt make up the majority of the market.
May 30 21:55:12 <muthu> the new sdk looks like the demo one
May 30 21:55:18 <dmoffett> Phones like it and the iPhone are going to be choices for the Android market.
May 30 21:55:35 <Dougie187> and phones that dont even have a screen.
May 30 21:55:39 <Dougie187> or blackberries.
May 30 21:55:58 <Dougie187> they will be choices, but not the choice.
May 30 21:58:01 <dmoffett> Headed back to Colorado.  Later.
May 30 22:01:16 <romainguy> re
May 30 22:01:56 <Dougie187> hello romainguy
May 30 22:02:35 <muthu> hey romainguy, is that your wallpaper again in the new sdk?
May 30 22:02:41 <romainguy> yes
May 30 22:02:51 <muthu> cool, like it
May 30 22:02:56 <romainguy> thanks
May 30 22:03:13 <muthu> was looking for you at IO, then realized you are on vacation
May 30 22:03:18 <romainguy> :))
May 30 22:03:24 <muthu> like me :)
May 30 22:03:29 <romainguy> I am a little bummed I missed IO but vacation is better :p
May 30 22:03:39 <muthu> oh yeah, vacation any time
May 30 22:09:43 <Dougie187> how much longer is your vacation?
May 30 22:21:02 <f00f-> rofl @ errors
May 30 22:28:35 <muthu> f00f-: how many?
May 30 22:29:26 <romainguy> f00f-: ?
May 30 22:29:36 <f00f-> every activity :)
May 30 22:29:41 <romainguy> :p
May 30 22:30:00 <romainguy> yeah we did change a few APIs
May 30 22:30:05 <f00f-> gladly, in my main business logic class, only one line has an error :)
May 30 22:30:28 <f00f-> it would be nice to have  achangelog
May 30 22:30:36 <romainguy> we're working on it
May 30 22:30:43 <f00f-> btw is there an IRC channel for round 2?
May 30 22:30:48 <romainguy> not that I know of
May 30 22:30:50 <f00f-> should/can we create one?
May 30 22:30:58 <romainguy> you definitely can
May 30 22:30:59 <f00f-> or is the group the only one allowed
May 30 22:31:05 <romainguy> it's freenode.net
May 30 22:31:17 <f00f-> well, what i'm asking is, would the google people join it :)
May 30 22:31:22 <Dougie187> are you going to password protect it?
May 30 22:31:30 <romainguy> if you tell Dan, I guess so
May 30 22:31:32 <f00f-> Dougie187: well that would be a requirement
May 30 22:33:17 <muthu> are we allowed to talk about the sdk here?
May 30 22:33:38 <romainguy> it's a public channel and you are on an NDA...
May 30 22:33:45 <muthu> oh oh
May 30 22:36:05 <muthu> then what do we talk here :)
May 30 22:36:14 <f00f-> weather?
May 30 22:36:20 <muthu> cooking?
May 30 22:36:23 <muthu> haha
May 30 22:36:30 <muthu> weather and cooking goes hand in hand
May 30 22:36:47 <muthu> Mr. Weather and Ms. Cookies - that's funny!
May 30 22:37:12 <muthu> f00f-: i see
May 30 22:37:13 <f00f-> HAHAH
May 30 22:37:14 <f00f-> seriously
May 30 22:37:20 <jerkface03> i don't get it.
May 30 22:37:44 <muthu> did you create it already
May 30 22:39:00 <jasta> romainguy: lol, looks like you guys made a mistake extending the NDA to muthu :)
May 30 22:39:03 <f00f-> muthu: oh officially register it?
May 30 22:39:19 <romainguy> jasta: :)
May 30 22:39:29 <muthu> jasta: yeah, true
May 30 22:39:49 <Dougie187> he has the SDK posted already.
May 30 22:39:50 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 22:39:55 <jasta> hehe
May 30 22:40:10 <muthu> haha
May 30 22:40:16 <muthu> in a secret location
May 30 22:40:19 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 22:40:21 <jasta> he assumed it would be appropriate to give a copy to his immediate and extended family, as well as co-workers and passer-bys on the street.
May 30 22:40:26 <Dougie187> the ADC round 2 chat room
May 30 22:40:35 <Dougie187> exactly.
May 30 22:40:39 <Dougie187> and since hes still in san fran.
May 30 22:40:41 <Dougie187> thats quite a bit
May 30 22:40:45 <jasta> hehe
May 30 22:40:58 <jasta> i did not pick up my free Google t-shirt hehe
May 30 22:40:59 <Dougie187> 10 Google employees already have received access from him
May 30 22:41:00 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 22:41:08 <muthu> haha
May 30 22:41:22 <jasta> i just found that little "coupon" hehe
May 30 22:41:23 <muthu> they signed an NDA with me
May 30 22:41:40 <Dougie187> lol yeah. you are liked hey, you wanna sign this petition?
May 30 22:41:53 <Dougie187> heres your copy of the top secret SDK from Google Android for signing it.
May 30 22:41:55 <muthu> f00f-: add me to your gmail buddies
May 30 22:41:55 <Dougie187> DONT SHARE!
May 30 22:42:02 <muthu> muthu.ramadoss
May 30 22:42:22 <f00f-> muthu: dude, check your private message lol
May 30 22:42:40 <Dougie187> so... how about that laptop muthu?
May 30 22:42:40 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 22:42:51 <muthu> you should've come to IO :)
May 30 22:42:55 <Dougie187> heh
May 30 22:42:59 <Dougie187> im too por.
May 30 22:43:00 <Dougie187> poor
May 30 22:43:01 <muthu> bought the laptop..
May 30 22:43:08 <muthu> you were not there.. hehe
May 30 22:43:10 <Dougie187> otherwise i would have gotten the laptop myself
May 30 22:43:11 <Dougie187> lol
May 30 22:49:39 <jasta> google maps public transit mode is great
May 30 22:49:40 <jasta> i love this
May 30 22:50:05 <muthu> jasta: the transit is real helpful
May 30 22:50:12 <Dougie187> where do you get it?
May 30 22:50:21 <jasta> its just a sort of tab on the left hand side
May 30 22:50:27 <jasta> get directions then choose public transit
May 30 22:50:45 <jasta> its very neat.  it even puts like the bus number as a bubble on the map
May 30 22:50:54 <jasta> so if youre familiar with the transit system you can just head out the door with that info alone
May 30 22:51:25 <jasta> when i was in SFO it gave me prices for the BART too
May 30 22:51:31 <Dougie187> I dont see it.
May 30 22:51:39 <jasta> its there on maps.google.com
May 30 22:51:58 <Dougie187> thats where i am.
May 30 22:52:02 <Dougie187> i went to get directions.
May 30 22:52:16 <jasta> maybe there is no public transit data in your area?
May 30 22:52:23 <romainguy> at the top of the directions list there's a choice between Drive and Public Transit
May 30 22:52:43 <Dougie187> well i tried it with the example they give.
May 30 22:52:49 <Dougie187> SFO and 94526
May 30 22:52:49 <jasta> i keep wondering why google maps for mobile doesn't have this data
May 30 22:53:05 <jasta> or rather, doesn't use it
May 30 22:54:19 <Dougie187> what is an example Start and End Address that you have the gives the option.
May 30 22:57:12 <Dougie187> my town is not covered
May 30 23:31:09 <Dougie187> It is rather quiet in here.
May 30 23:50:53 <jasta> well, what's to talk about? :)
May 30 23:53:36 <duey> so jat
May 30 23:53:37 <duey> jasta,
May 30 23:53:43 <duey> was IO ok?
May 31 00:46:17 <Hyphenex> if I get an iPhone... and don't like it after Android struts its stuff, will it be possible to put Android on the iPhone (because the iPhone has some lovely hardware)
May 31 00:48:07 <duey> no
May 31 00:48:17 <AttractiveApe> Hyphenex: nothing to say for certain. I think it would be doubtful, Apple has likely tried to make it very difficult to do that.
May 31 00:49:14 <Hyphenex> Ahhh
May 31 00:49:39 <Hyphenex> the iPhone is very nice, but the videos I just saw of android has made me wary of running out for the iPhone as soon as it comes out
May 31 01:57:02 <Dougie187> Good Evening morrildl
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 31 02:59:57 2008