**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 16 02:59:57 2008 Jun 16 03:26:40 whattup people? Jun 16 13:20:54 Good morning everyone Jun 16 13:21:10 good morning Dougie187 :) Jun 16 13:21:19 hows it over there in the cape? Jun 16 13:35:23 Dougie187: it's good, went out and watched a launch from as close as you can get on base Jun 16 13:35:30 last week Jun 16 13:36:36 nice Jun 16 17:10:28 *boo* Jun 16 17:10:37 buwaahaha, *runs screaming* Jun 16 17:10:50 i am massively sleep deprived today, *sigh* Jun 16 17:23:16 did you get any pics from the launch zhobbs_ ? Jun 16 17:23:22 i wasn't even aware there was one today Jun 16 17:28:29 f00f-: was last week Jun 16 17:28:40 delta rocket, some kind of gamma ray telescope Jun 16 17:29:07 it's cool when you're real close, you can see how fast it really gets going Jun 16 17:30:09 indeed Jun 16 17:32:13 well, escape velocity is not 60mph :) Jun 16 17:48:02 jasta: I'm used to seeing them from 15 miles away, so it's a little different when you're 3/4 a mile away Jun 16 17:49:30 not too bad Jun 16 17:59:25 it's also something of an optical illusion... Jun 16 18:00:09 humans are not familiar with seeing extremely large velocities going straight up. Jun 16 18:00:22 so it is harder to appreciate Jun 16 18:00:47 if you saw that velocity translated along the surface of Earth, it would be easier to see how absurdly fast it is :) Jun 16 18:01:47 speed of light etc. Jun 16 18:02:11 what? Jun 16 18:02:55 most spacecraft going into orbit should be traveling at about 20 times the speed of sound, if i know my science :) Jun 16 18:03:16 give or take, yeah Jun 16 18:03:18 not even a meaningful fraction of the speed of light. Jun 16 18:03:19 i appreciate the speed of light Jun 16 18:03:37 although it could be a little faster Jun 16 18:03:44 so we know what's going on in the rest of the universe Jun 16 18:06:11 actually, i'm not sure what the graph of velocity would really look like, i don't know that it would ever actually achieve that speed. the amount of energy can be described as the initial surface velocity equaling the escape velocity, but how that translates over time in practice i don't know. Jun 16 19:05:54 jasta: make a breakthrough yet? Jun 16 19:05:55 :d Jun 16 19:23:34 no, i actually lost interest, mostly due to the fact that i could not figure out a reasonable way to acquire a device with service Jun 16 19:23:46 so i dont want to bother Jun 16 19:25:06 playing much dota? Jun 16 19:31:28 some :) Jun 16 19:32:05 it would be a different story if i had a device i could play with at home Jun 16 19:32:28 i thought at first i would be able to get one through work (since we have sprint), but that doesn't work like i thought it would. Jun 16 19:32:32 they still require a 1 year contract Jun 16 19:32:41 even though we have a business account with like 40 lines Jun 16 19:32:58 but, meh. i should be working on Five anyway Jun 16 19:35:33 I understand, jasta Jun 16 19:35:36 a shame though :p Jun 16 19:47:47 perhaps :) Jun 16 19:48:01 here's hoping that devices which officially launch Android don't completely suck :) Jun 16 19:48:21 if the first launch is by HTC, i think we'll see a surprising amount of openness. Jun 16 19:49:38 jasta: I agree Jun 16 19:52:38 LG, Samsung, and Motorola: no :) Jun 16 19:57:31 Qualcomm also will probably surprise us. Jun 16 19:57:36 but Intel, ewwwww :) Jun 16 20:43:24 I do like that XPERIA X1 Jun 16 20:48:49 no EDGE, shitty 3G, next please. Jun 16 20:49:01 i'm sick of the SE garbage they keep putting out Jun 16 20:50:29 it's made by HTC I think Jun 16 20:53:00 HTC is making sony ericsson's phones now? Jun 16 20:53:29 I think that one Jun 16 20:53:49 http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/10/no-wonder-sony-ericssons-xperia-x1-is-so-good-htc-makes-it/ Jun 16 20:55:29 perhaps i should blame both then Jun 16 21:03:02 haha Jun 16 23:18:29 * jasta ponders why the Android blog hasn't even been updated with slides from I/O Jun 16 23:18:45 yeah, I was thinking that too Jun 16 23:18:50 the Android team has gone from bad to terrible maintaining that blog. Jun 16 23:21:12 the android team has gone from bad to terrible at getting me excited about developing for their platform Jun 16 23:21:59 Kraln: give them some credit..you were excited, so that should be good to terrible :) Jun 16 23:22:16 I suppose. Jun 16 23:22:37 Agreed, good to terrible :) Jun 16 23:23:21 lets not give them a devkit, ey Jun 16 23:24:14 Maybe their budget is just pathetically small? Jun 16 23:25:19 well I noticed that it's gotten to hostile for jason and dan :( Jun 16 23:25:30 don't see them in here as much Jun 16 23:25:55 I think it's better that way, honestly. Jun 16 23:26:16 If they aren't going to be at liberty to tell us anything, why idle here and provoke the unrest? Jun 16 23:27:27 in case we can actually help someone with a question Jun 16 23:27:53 romainguy: I wasn't actually referring to you :) Jun 16 23:29:05 still Jun 16 23:29:16 Dan and Jason, in particular, are not great technical resources for most of the active folks in here. They have just about the same level of exposure with the platform as we do, if even as much. Jun 16 23:30:38 Instead, they are seen as liasons between us and engineers, management, etc. As of late, that capacity has not been well served, even if we all understand it is not their fault. Jun 16 23:31:17 So, as I said, it's probably for the better that they not idle here to provoke questions that can't be answered. Jun 16 23:34:01 jasta: things will be better after 1.0, they'll probably not have as many restrictions on what they can say Jun 16 23:34:23 Well I should hope so :) Jun 16 23:34:45 I agree, of course, I just meant that for now, it isn't hurting anything for them to just lay low and ignore us :) Jun 16 23:35:30 I do wonder, though, what on earth they are doing to fill an 8 hour day :) Jun 16 23:36:12 don't worry about them, they're busy Jun 16 23:36:53 Some secret upcoming project? :) Jun 16 23:45:25 jasta: you know a way to start a new activity in a tab'd application and preserve the tabs? Jun 16 23:46:26 zhobbs: I was hoping to solve that myself, and also to do much better history management when navigating through a program designed that way. Jun 16 23:46:51 I was wondering if a newer SDK would provide some sort of improvement to this approach, so I avoided it initially. Jun 16 23:47:22 At any rate, my original thinking is that you would want to extend the TabHost and further encapsulate the ability to switch your own Activity's just as it does. Jun 16 23:47:38 yeah, that's what I was afraid of Jun 16 23:47:42 The TabHost itself works by simply loading an activity, then accessing its decor view, and attaching that to the hosts. Jun 16 23:47:54 So you could just abstract that one more layer and do a simialr thing inside your own application. Jun 16 23:48:07 That way you could still have Activity boundaries, but everything would ultimately stay in 1 true window. Jun 16 23:48:48 zhobbs: But yeah, I didn't pursue this in practice because I had hoped that the API would evolve some to provide for this. Jun 16 23:48:55 well...that's on the "if I have time list" Jun 16 23:49:21 It was one of those larger design changes that you'd hate to make simultaneously with Google changing the API surrounding it :) Jun 16 23:50:04 jasta: well, when you're extending the built in stuff it's a pain to maintain as the API's change Jun 16 23:50:50 Certainly, and should probably be avoided until 1.0 approaches or lands ;) Jun 16 23:51:17 Especially with things like activity animations coming. The encapsulation to provide for that must be similar to the encapsulation needed for this feature. Jun 16 23:51:18 yep...but the adc makes you do crazy stuff (and then redo it when new sdk comes out) Jun 16 23:52:52 bbl, gotta head into a quick meeting Jun 17 01:33:49 hey Jun 17 01:34:15 when is this android planned for release and will it work on blackberrys? Jun 17 01:36:34 Second half of year, maybe never on RIM Jun 17 01:40:06 2008? Jun 17 01:40:12 yeah Jun 17 01:40:12 zhobbs: on what phones then? Jun 17 01:40:23 pinPoint: TBA Jun 17 01:40:30 ohmg! Jun 17 01:40:40 why never on RIM? Jun 17 01:41:01 probably be a pain in the ass...and I don't think RIM will support it Jun 17 01:42:29 can gooogle create a hack to bust the RIM os out? Jun 17 01:44:03 pinPoint: google won't be doing stuff like that...that's up to you Jun 17 01:44:58 zhobbs: alright. Put next to each other. RIM OS vs ANDROID.... who is the likely candidate to win? Jun 17 01:45:33 who knows...the best candidate doesn't always win Jun 17 01:45:59 which will be the inovative os? Jun 17 01:46:49 I don't know anything about RIM...never even used a blackberry before Jun 17 01:47:02 I've never even had a smart phone :) Jun 17 01:48:08 I just like android because it's open source (eventually) and there's no limitations on what you're allowed to do (hopefully) Jun 17 01:48:32 for example on iPhone it's against the terms of the SDK to use the GPS to give directions to a location Jun 17 01:49:06 what! Jun 17 01:49:20 to get directions is illegal? why? Jun 17 01:49:44 so iphone might be a likely candidate of the android? Jun 17 01:49:47 probably made a deal with someone Jun 17 01:50:02 no, htc will def have a phone out in the fall Jun 17 01:52:00 i assume that the sdk also has a simulator so you can test the applications? Jun 17 01:52:24 yep Jun 17 01:52:33 helloandroid.com/apps Jun 17 01:54:37 so the entire base is free/opensource? Jun 17 01:54:43 not just the SDK Jun 17 01:55:12 http://code.google.com/android/documentation.html Jun 17 01:55:20 http://code.google.com/android/kb/index.html Jun 17 02:06:48 pinPoint: well, none of it's open source yet Jun 17 02:07:05 but yes, it's anticipated that the platform itself will be open source, although none of the relevant drivers and google apps will be Jun 17 02:28:28 pinPoint: i assume that the sdk also has a simulator so you can test the applications? << Android comes with an emulator, not a simulator Jun 17 02:37:31 romainguy_: whats the difference? Jun 17 02:37:52 the Android emulator emulates an ARM CPU Jun 17 02:38:02 a simulator just runs on your computer's CPU Jun 17 02:38:06 (basically) Jun 17 02:38:20 so in brief, the simulator runs much much much much faster than a real cell phone Jun 17 02:38:31 while the emulator runs about at the same speed Jun 17 02:38:42 (slower if you have a machine not very powerful) Jun 17 02:43:40 ARM CPU? thats the same as RIM's cpu Jun 17 02:43:43 strong arm Jun 17 02:43:58 ARM processors are very common in the cell phone market. Jun 17 02:44:19 so common that i doubt i've even had a cell phone that didn't have one. Jun 17 02:55:25 oh Jun 17 02:55:37 so its safe to say, there is a chance rim will be involved? ;P Jun 17 02:57:28 ?? Jun 17 02:57:37 the ARM CPU is in many devices Jun 17 02:57:50 it's in the GameBoy Advance, it doesn't mean Nintendo is involved :)) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 17 02:59:57 2008