**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 17 02:59:57 2008
Jun 17 03:04:20 <trigatch4> whattup peoples
Jun 17 03:13:46 <trigatch4> has this place been really quietly lately or do i just come in when everyone is sleeping?
Jun 17 03:16:28 <zhobbs> trigatch4: it's quiet
Jun 17 03:20:38 <trigatch4> hmm
Jun 17 03:20:40 <trigatch4> wonder why
Jun 17 03:25:38 <zhobbs> no motivation for developers right now...challenge is over and no phones are out
Jun 17 04:09:54 <trigatch4> zhobbs: yet there are dozens of people in the chan
Jun 17 04:09:58 <trigatch4> all idling i guess
Jun 17 08:43:24 <sleepydroid> hi guys
Jun 17 08:43:42 <sleepydroid> I published a new screencast yesterday
Jun 17 08:44:04 <sleepydroid> it's for beginners (naturally) and the subject is Intents
Jun 17 08:44:31 <sleepydroid> to see it goto sleepydroid.blogspot.com and follow the IntentDemo link
Jun 17 08:44:36 <sleepydroid> thanks
Jun 17 08:45:01 <sleepydroid> ps - feedback is very welcome - positive or negative just drop me an email
Jun 17 12:52:25 <Dougie187> FF download day is today!
Jun 17 12:55:57 <Zba_Phy> but FF3 is not out
Jun 17 13:01:18 <Dougie187> not till 10 am PDT
Jun 17 13:07:16 <Dougie187> brb
Jun 17 13:32:12 <sleepydog_androi> FF is?
Jun 17 13:39:06 <zhobbs_> sleepydog_androi: firefox
Jun 17 13:41:29 <sleepydog_androi> oohhh
Jun 17 13:41:36 <sleepydog_androi> hi zacc
Jun 17 13:41:53 <sleepydog_androi> zach even
Jun 17 16:46:47 <jasta> morning folks
Jun 17 17:09:47 <f00f-> ff3 is hog
Jun 17 17:09:48 <f00f-> nothing new
Jun 17 17:09:49 <f00f-> move along
Jun 17 17:12:20 <romainguy> ff3 is the new Mozilla :)
Jun 17 17:12:25 <romainguy> (big and bloated? :)
Jun 17 17:12:46 <f00f-> i'm still drooling about opera 9.50
Jun 17 17:13:00 <f00f-> although i like ff3's recent history when you cant bother to remember the url
Jun 17 17:13:42 <zhobbs_> f00f-: opera 9.5 rocks
Jun 17 17:16:42 <Dougie187> lol getfirefox.com is rather slow
Jun 17 17:30:54 <muthu> is firefox 3 out?
Jun 17 17:32:34 <Dougie187> supposedly
Jun 17 17:32:39 <Dougie187> but i cant even get to getfirefox.com
Jun 17 17:32:48 <Dougie187> it was supposedly released at 10am PDT
Jun 17 17:32:54 <Dougie187> which was about 30 minutes ago
Jun 17 17:33:08 <Kraln> they invited the internet to rape them
Jun 17 17:33:14 <Dougie187> yeah i know
Jun 17 17:33:14 <Kraln> and then they got suprised when they got raped.
Jun 17 17:33:14 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 17:33:45 <Dougie187> like a million people said they would download it.
Jun 17 17:34:33 <Dougie187> that equals, complete ownage of servers.
Jun 17 17:35:29 <Dougie187> i bet you can update it through RC3 though, to get the full version. though everything says its exactly the same as rc3
Jun 17 17:35:53 <f00f-> i just installed opera 9.5 on my windows machine
Jun 17 17:35:54 <f00f-> sexy
Jun 17 17:36:16 <muthu> flock seems to be good too
Jun 17 17:37:09 <f00f-> it seems like garbage
Jun 17 17:37:26 <muthu> hehe
Jun 17 17:37:37 <f00f-> its coming out of AT&T ?
Jun 17 17:37:40 <f00f-> is what i heard
Jun 17 17:37:52 <f00f-> we dont need yet another browser
Jun 17 17:37:58 <muthu> flock is there for a while
Jun 17 17:38:02 <muthu> its a social browser
Jun 17 17:38:08 <romainguy> flock is based on Gecko anyway
Jun 17 17:38:35 <f00f-> confuse the market with more names more fragmentation
Jun 17 17:38:44 <romainguy> or just gives more choice
Jun 17 17:38:48 <romainguy> how is that confusing the market?
Jun 17 17:38:58 <romainguy> as long as it does not introduce yet another rendering engine to support...
Jun 17 17:39:08 <muthu> i use flock
Jun 17 17:39:22 <muthu> its the same as firefox
Jun 17 17:39:37 <muthu> but all your social networks bundled
Jun 17 17:40:38 <zhobbs_> I've been a life long opera fanboy
Jun 17 17:40:54 <Kraln> I like opera 9.5
Jun 17 17:41:39 <f00f-> kraln how is your chat app going
Jun 17 17:42:51 <Kraln> someone actually emailed me about it today
Jun 17 17:42:59 <Kraln> they want to make the user experience more pleasant
Jun 17 17:43:19 <f00f-> is poffy sitll with you
Jun 17 17:43:26 <Kraln> yes
Jun 17 17:44:16 <muthu> Kraln: if you make the UI more simple and easy to use, that can be a good IRC client for android
Jun 17 17:44:24 <Dougie187> im a fan of firefox
Jun 17 17:45:19 <Dougie187> i dont think i would try flock, just because i dont give a crap about social networks
Jun 17 17:45:20 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 17:45:45 <Kraln> muthu: rgr.
Jun 17 17:48:44 <cutmasta> Http/1.1 Service Unavailable
Jun 17 17:48:45 <cutmasta> haha
Jun 17 17:48:48 <cutmasta> nice mozilla
Jun 17 17:49:00 <Dougie187> heh yeah
Jun 17 17:49:05 <Dougie187> its been that way for about 45 minutes.
Jun 17 17:49:05 <f00f-> server too busy?
Jun 17 17:49:11 <f00f-> flush your dns buddy
Jun 17 17:50:19 * cutmasta forgot  the www
Jun 17 17:50:24 <cutmasta> www.mozilla.org is working
Jun 17 17:50:25 <cutmasta> normal
Jun 17 17:53:11 <Dougie187> hey guys, using find in linux how do you search recursively all directories for a word?
Jun 17 17:53:31 <f00f-> find | grep blah
Jun 17 17:53:49 <Dougie187> ...
Jun 17 17:53:51 <f00f-> grep --recursive biatch /home
Jun 17 17:53:51 <f00f-> etc.
Jun 17 17:53:56 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 17 17:53:58 <zhobbs_> "find -name blah*"  or something
Jun 17 17:54:14 <zhobbs_> grep will look in files
Jun 17 17:54:16 <f00f-> i can never remember find's args so i use the cheap way ^^
Jun 17 18:27:14 <Dougie187> lol http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/?p=downloadday has svn conflicts.
Jun 17 18:29:19 <Dougie187> <<<<<<< .mine  ======= >>>>>>> .r15918
Jun 17 18:29:20 <Dougie187> is at the top
Jun 17 18:29:30 <Dougie187> ohhh, they fixed it.
Jun 17 18:29:31 <Dougie187> just now
Jun 17 18:33:34 <RPStudent2009> Hello.
Jun 17 18:34:35 <Dougie187> hello
Jun 17 18:34:40 <RPStudent2009> is there anyone here who is familiar with the linux kernelmaking process?
Jun 17 18:34:50 <RPStudent2009> or with porting android to devices?
Jun 17 18:35:03 <Dougie187> yes, no?
Jun 17 18:35:12 <RPStudent2009> ok great!
Jun 17 18:35:23 <f00f-> makemakemake
Jun 17 18:35:30 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 17 18:48:22 <Dougie187> i got it!
Jun 17 19:01:10 <zhobbs_> wow, what a contest:
Jun 17 19:01:10 <zhobbs_> http://gizmodo.com/5016996/gizmodos-iphone-sdk-app-contest
Jun 17 19:08:59 <RPStudent2009> you know how the linux part of the android kernel has been posted already?
Jun 17 19:09:32 <RPStudent2009> if I wanted to compile the kernerl for use on a pre-existing platform, how would I compile it for an embedded device?
Jun 17 19:09:56 <Dougie187> no idea.
Jun 17 19:11:03 <RPStudent2009> crap...
Jun 17 19:11:13 <Dougie187> i dont think many people know, if anyone does.
Jun 17 19:11:16 <RPStudent2009> doesn anyone in here know how to compile linux kernel for embedded devices?
Jun 17 19:14:35 <f00f-> just compile it
Jun 17 19:14:36 <f00f-> just do it
Jun 17 19:14:46 <f00f-> get a cross compiler
Jun 17 19:14:58 <f00f-> and if the kernel version is available for that arch good
Jun 17 19:15:00 <f00f-> else, get a patchkit
Jun 17 19:15:03 <f00f-> or write one
Jun 17 19:15:06 <f00f-> we need more details, etc.
Jun 17 19:15:37 <RPStudent2009> okay, I'll start from the beginning.
Jun 17 19:16:24 <RPStudent2009> I am a student in a science & technology program, for my science fair project, I would like to test android on different pre-existing platforms.
Jun 17 19:16:25 <jasta> yawn
Jun 17 19:16:43 <Kraln> RPStudent2009: it's not fully open sourced yet
Jun 17 19:16:45 <Kraln> gfl.
Jun 17 19:17:20 <RPStudent2009> I understand that, that's why I'm asking about linux in general, because I need to know in what direction to go when the source is released.
Jun 17 19:17:39 <RPStudent2009> and in the mean time I am playing around with Purple Labs Linux, but I cant compile it to run.
Jun 17 19:17:47 <RPStudent2009> that's why I need help.
Jun 17 19:19:09 <jasta> RPStudent2009: have you started with Google or with IRC?
Jun 17 19:19:40 <jasta> f00f-: http://androidguys.com/2008/06/17/andy-rubin-shows-off-talks-android/ -- seen this?
Jun 17 19:19:44 <jasta> the new icons at the top look like hell :)
Jun 17 19:22:29 <RPStudent2009> I began with google...
Jun 17 19:22:40 <RPStudent2009> I've done all the research I can,
Jun 17 19:23:11 <RPStudent2009> I've installed fedora core 9 on this computer under a virtual machine to assist me in compiling the kernel once I figure out how...
Jun 17 19:23:26 <jasta> so you looked at how to cross compile the linux kernel for a particular platform/arch?
Jun 17 19:23:41 <RPStudent2009> no.
Jun 17 19:23:46 <RPStudent2009> where can I find that?
Jun 17 19:23:51 <jasta> google.
Jun 17 19:23:55 <RPStudent2009> hmm.....
Jun 17 19:24:03 <jasta> but if you are new to Linux in general then you're going about this project all wrong.
Jun 17 19:24:23 <RPStudent2009> what do you mean?
Jun 17 19:25:35 <jasta> well, what exactly are you trying to do?
Jun 17 19:25:35 <f00f-> jasta: veyr interesting.
Jun 17 19:26:10 <zhobbs_> jasta: I think this is interesting "There are 20 default applications loaded with Android including GMail, Google Maps, and a program that allows you to view all YouTube clips."
Jun 17 19:26:35 <zhobbs_> 20 default apps
Jun 17 19:26:47 <jasta> yeah, but how many of those will be trivial? :)
Jun 17 19:26:52 <jasta> i dont think there will be surprises there.
Jun 17 19:26:57 <RPStudent2009> I am trying to port a linux platform to existing hardware, android if at all possible, but if the source isn;t released in time, Purple Labs Linux
Jun 17 19:27:08 <zhobbs_> jasta: just would be nice to see some previews of some of them
Jun 17 19:27:10 <jasta> they will integrate with their online services, yes.  there will be a picasa app, a gmail app, a reader app, etc.
Jun 17 19:27:13 <jasta> duh :)
Jun 17 19:27:58 <zhobbs_> if they have "gmail" app, but not an "email" app I'll be pissed
Jun 17 19:28:07 <RPStudent2009> LMAO!!!!
Jun 17 19:28:19 <RPStudent2009> true stuff, but I have a gmail so I wont be too mad.
Jun 17 19:28:31 <jasta> zhobbs_: i think they are going to make a lot of dumb decisions like that, honestly.
Jun 17 19:28:55 <zhobbs_> that'd be serious bs
Jun 17 19:29:00 <jasta> but just find some goofy way to integrate POP/IMAP or something into GMail, all hackish like :)
Jun 17 19:29:36 <zhobbs_> corporate users need imap
Jun 17 19:29:57 <f00f-> remember, operators will rebrand all of this
Jun 17 19:30:10 <f00f-> you may only see a couple of google apps
Jun 17 19:30:23 <RPStudent2009> true
Jun 17 19:31:11 <RPStudent2009> that's the saddest part though, because operators will end up rewriting half the stuff anyway, and then it'll be a struggle between user intent, and the corporate agends.
Jun 17 19:31:21 <RPStudent2009> *agenda.
Jun 17 19:32:29 <zhobbs_> that's why we'll have a cool stripped down android distro
Jun 17 19:33:04 <RPStudent2009> wait....we? who are you? ;)
Jun 17 19:33:30 <zhobbs_> well, you can help if you want
Jun 17 19:33:42 <jasta> when it all comes down to it, i think the main "win" for Android will be the developer tools, not the phone itself.
Jun 17 19:33:53 <Dougie187> hey jasta
Jun 17 19:33:55 <Dougie187> hows it going.
Jun 17 19:34:03 <jasta> it really might end up being a totally mediocre phone experience without developers adding onto it.
Jun 17 19:34:24 <jasta> Dougie187: pretty good
Jun 17 19:34:27 <Dougie187> nice
Jun 17 19:34:37 <Dougie187> i had a cool idea for an app
Jun 17 19:34:38 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 19:35:13 <jasta> yeah?
Jun 17 19:35:36 <Dougie187> yeah gimme a sec and ill pm you the description.
Jun 17 19:35:46 <jasta> it's secret?
Jun 17 19:35:52 <Dougie187> eh.
Jun 17 19:35:56 <Dougie187> i think its a good idea.
Jun 17 19:36:00 <Dougie187> and it seems easy.
Jun 17 19:36:02 <Dougie187> so ionno
Jun 17 19:36:06 <zhobbs_> doesn't Android seem like a really ambitious product?  a product they can't really just slap "beta" onto like they do with all their other products...I think this will be an interesting test for google
Jun 17 19:36:15 <Dougie187> but it owuld be an added feature to the electric fence
Jun 17 19:36:20 <zhobbs_> I'm excited to see how it turns out
Jun 17 19:36:23 <jasta> zhobbs_: yeah, and i don't think initially they will succeed.
Jun 17 19:36:28 <jasta> honestly, i don't.
Jun 17 19:36:41 <zhobbs_> I have doubts, but I hope it works out
Jun 17 19:36:48 <jasta> if the launch goes off "end of '08" like we've been told, it will stumble out of the gate for sure.
Jun 17 19:37:09 <jasta> but, ultimately, as i said if the platform bolsters the best dev experience, and a capable phone platform to run apps, then it will get dev attention
Jun 17 19:37:10 <zhobbs_> jasta: I agree...I have a feeling the reviews will be "so-so"
Jun 17 19:37:11 <RPStudent2009> I just hope they release the source before Aug. 29.
Jun 17 19:37:28 <zhobbs_> RPStudent2009: hmm, doubt it
Jun 17 19:37:42 <f00f-> source is already out for te kernel
Jun 17 19:37:45 <f00f-> has been out for months
Jun 17 19:37:56 <jasta> yeah, in fact, the kernel git tree for android is public
Jun 17 19:38:07 <RPStudent2009> wait...I thought that was the SDK, not the kernel.
Jun 17 19:38:17 <jasta> the SDK itself is not open sourced
Jun 17 19:38:19 <f00f-> source for the SDK hasn't been released yet buddy
Jun 17 19:38:26 <f00f-> kernel is all you need
Jun 17 19:38:29 <jasta> but the kernel is, and had to be.  it would be a GPL violation for it not to be.
Jun 17 19:38:34 <f00f-> add a userland like busybox and you're ready to roll
Jun 17 19:38:51 <f00f-> it' sjust like any other embedded device running linux
Jun 17 19:38:53 <jasta> yeah, but the Android kernel tree is largely modifications to support the Android platform itself, not just Linux
Jun 17 19:39:06 <jasta> there is no reason to run the Android kernel on a phone unless you intend to bring the platform up too
Jun 17 19:39:22 <jasta> lots of things like openbinder, a redesigned OOM killer, etc.  why would you need that to just boot Linux on a phone
Jun 17 19:39:50 <f00f-> just compile it and go, if it works good :)
Jun 17 19:39:59 <f00f-> i havent looked at the changes myself
Jun 17 19:40:16 <f00f-> but i suspect there is an init that gets called
Jun 17 19:40:22 <f00f-> i mean you're going to just mess around with it anyway
Jun 17 19:40:26 <f00f-> you wont be doing anything serious with it
Jun 17 19:40:38 <jasta> the kernel doesn't contain init, f00f.
Jun 17 19:40:43 <f00f-> it calls init
Jun 17 19:41:21 <jasta> yeah, but my point is the Android kernel tree is pointless without the Android stack.  Why not just check out 2.6.x and load it up on a phone if your only goal is to run Linux?
Jun 17 19:41:31 <f00f-> cause it's boring :)
Jun 17 19:41:39 <jasta> the android kernel itself is just as boring without the stack.
Jun 17 20:03:24 <EA2009> so how would I go about getting the kernel
Jun 17 20:04:33 <donomo> EA2009: you might check out openmoko.org
Jun 17 20:04:52 <EA2009> for the android kernel?
Jun 17 20:05:07 <donomo> EA2009: for linux on cellphones (not android related)
Jun 17 20:05:27 <EA2009> openmoko isn;t up my alley, it's too open, if that makes sense.
Jun 17 20:05:58 * donomo grins
Jun 17 20:08:49 <jasta> EA2009: git.android.com
Jun 17 20:09:02 <jasta> or something like that, android.org maybe
Jun 17 20:10:58 <EA2009> yeah, I've been to this GIT branch before, but I dont know how to download the kernel.
Jun 17 20:11:39 <f00f-> just git it over
Jun 17 20:11:49 <f00f-> you'll have to compile it
Jun 17 20:12:29 <jasta> EA2009: then read a tutorial on git.
Jun 17 20:15:04 <zhobbs_> EA2009: http://code.google.com/p/android/downloads/list
Jun 17 20:15:33 <muthu> 20 default apps
Jun 17 20:15:34 <muthu> wow!
Jun 17 20:15:55 <muthu> i'm not sure how many they plan to bundle among top 20 winners
Jun 17 20:16:24 <muthu> anyone know how many default apps iphone has?
Jun 17 20:16:46 <zhobbs_> muthu: I'd be surprised if any adc apps made official bundle via google (maybe via OEM's)
Jun 17 20:16:58 <muthu> right
Jun 17 20:17:18 <muthu> or the carriers
Jun 17 20:17:45 <muthu> not sure how many will get picked up though
Jun 17 20:18:32 <EA2009> I'm confused.
Jun 17 20:20:44 <EA2009> which one should I download?
Jun 17 20:26:09 <jasta> EA2009: android-msm is the branch you probably want.
Jun 17 20:32:52 <EA2009> not ftom GIT, from android.google.com
Jun 17 20:32:59 <EA2009> because I dont know how to use GIT
Jun 17 20:33:34 <zhobbs_> EA2009: you're planning on trying to port it to a device?
Jun 17 20:35:30 <f00f-> if you don't know how to use git or don't care to learn, you should just not try
Jun 17 20:41:16 <Razec> hi all
Jun 17 20:42:39 <EA2009> I do care to learn, but I need someone to show me how.
Jun 17 20:42:55 <EA2009> yes I am planning on porting it.
Jun 17 20:43:13 <EA2009> zhobbs_: I am planning on porting it.
Jun 17 20:46:10 <EA2009> hello
Jun 17 20:47:08 <muthu> EA2009: can you google and find out about git?
Jun 17 20:47:50 <jasta> EA2009: you realize that just compiling it is the simplest step in porting to an existing device.  by a very wide margin.
Jun 17 20:48:07 <jasta> the hardest step is figuring out the GPIOs, IRQs, etc.
Jun 17 20:48:17 <jasta> actually, not even, the hardest is analyzing the MMU dumps...
Jun 17 20:49:37 <zhobbs_> jasta: apparently the hardest step is d/l'ing the tar file and extracting it
Jun 17 20:49:41 <zhobbs_> or grabbing from git
Jun 17 20:51:21 <EA2009> yeah, please, for the love of God, explain all that.
Jun 17 20:56:31 <jasta> EA2009: are you kidding me?  do you know how long that would take to explain to you how to reverse engineer device drivers and code them up for Linux?
Jun 17 20:57:22 <jasta> You've got reading to do before you can even begin your work :)
Jun 17 21:12:04 <EA2009> thanks, can you give me an idea of where to begin?
Jun 17 21:16:42 <jasta> EA2009: well, google "how to compile the linux kernel"
Jun 17 21:16:49 <jasta> then google, "how to cross-compile the linux kernel"
Jun 17 21:17:13 <jasta> then google, "cross-compile android linux kernel" :)
Jun 17 21:18:11 <jasta> now you've got an ARM-compiled kernel which can be booted by HaRET on a compatible device.
Jun 17 21:18:42 <jasta> the HTC Vogue, Kaiser, and a few other devices can run the kernel now.
Jun 17 21:18:49 <jasta> though there is limited supported for other pieces
Jun 17 21:19:33 <jasta> though do realize that there is a significant investment to learn how to do this sort of hacking.
Jun 17 22:08:19 <f00f-> Dougie187: what do you smoke?
Jun 17 22:08:39 <Dougie187> nothing.
Jun 17 22:08:45 <Dougie187> i have bad allergies.
Jun 17 22:08:47 <Dougie187> and asthma
Jun 17 22:08:52 <muthu> f00f-: you smoke?
Jun 17 22:09:00 <Dougie187> what do you smoke?
Jun 17 22:09:48 <f00f-> nah, i'm no smoker
Jun 17 22:09:52 <f00f-> i only inhale because i have to
Jun 17 22:10:06 <f00f-> sup muthu, nah, but i'll happily do shots of vodka with you
Jun 17 22:10:18 <muthu> haha
Jun 17 22:10:22 <Dougie187> why do you ask?
Jun 17 22:10:31 <f00f-> just your name....
Jun 17 22:10:36 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 22:10:38 <f00f-> reminds me of ... i dont know what
Jun 17 22:10:44 <f00f-> let's smoke a dougie?
Jun 17 22:10:45 <Dougie187> sublime?
Jun 17 22:10:45 <f00f-> i dont know
Jun 17 22:10:49 <Dougie187> oh
Jun 17 22:10:50 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 22:10:53 <Dougie187> i smoke fools
Jun 17 22:10:56 <Dougie187> like that
Jun 17 22:10:57 <f00f-> haha
Jun 17 22:11:18 <Dougie187> and PABs
Jun 17 22:11:22 <Dougie187> i smoke them all the time.
Jun 17 22:11:27 <Dougie187> and scouts in Team Fortress 2
Jun 17 22:12:19 <f00f-> oh okay, i really know what you're talking about there.
Jun 17 22:12:31 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 17 22:18:06 <Dougie187> Diablo 2 has a new patch that allows the game to be run without a cd for those interested.
Jun 17 22:19:13 <jasta> blech.
Jun 17 22:19:21 <jasta> i hate those types of games.
Jun 17 22:19:33 <f00f-> diablo
Jun 17 22:19:36 <f00f-> damn that was years ago
Jun 17 22:19:38 <f00f-> decades in fact
Jun 17 22:19:39 <jasta> rewarding losers :)
Jun 17 22:19:42 <jasta> just like WoW
Jun 17 22:20:32 <f00f-> just give me mario on android
Jun 17 22:20:34 <f00f-> that's all i ask
Jun 17 22:20:52 <f00f-> it's been out for JavaScript for ages now
Jun 17 22:21:23 <Dougie187> Lol
Jun 17 22:21:26 <Dougie187> i love Diablo 2.
Jun 17 22:21:30 <Dougie187> i cant get into WoW though
Jun 17 22:22:14 <Dougie187> i think its cool that blizzard is putting no-cd stuff into games now, and allowing you to play without having a legit cd
Jun 17 22:22:41 <Dougie187> new sc2 screenshot as well. http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=10074&game_id=4110&id=121288
Jun 17 22:25:25 <jasta> Dougie187: it's frankly silly that more companies don't adopt that attitude.
Jun 17 22:25:31 <jasta> old games are played at like lan parties and stuff
Jun 17 22:25:38 <jasta> everyone probably at one point or another owned it, lost it, forgot about it
Jun 17 22:25:44 <jasta> and pull it out to play with friends for nostalgic purposes
Jun 17 22:25:55 <jasta> stupid to require a cd key.  no one in their right mind is going to buy a game that old anyway :)
Jun 17 22:26:04 <jasta> you'd just hastle with pirating or give up.
Jun 17 22:26:37 <jasta> though i did go back and buy quake3 a couple of years ago.  i felt overcome with guilt that it was my favorite game for years and years without ever legally purchasing it :)
Jun 17 22:30:57 <f00f-> nice jasta, good to see you paying
Jun 17 22:31:10 <f00f-> you're not all open source =)
Jun 17 23:04:17 <jasta> f00f-: my affinity for open source grew out of my total joblessness when i first started programming.  i have money these days, and am not just generally cheap :)
Jun 17 23:52:08 <Dougie187> hey jasta you around yet?
Jun 18 00:01:06 <jasta> yeah, about to head home
Jun 18 00:01:28 <jasta> i might not have time to play tho, my gf is getting off early today :(
Jun 18 00:01:38 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 18 00:01:38 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 18 00:03:17 <Dougie187> well i think i might hop on to bnet and play some
Jun 18 00:19:48 <zhobbs> I have a Parcelable[] p, all the members are MyObj, so I should be able to MyObj[] arr = (MyObj[]) p; right?
Jun 18 00:20:00 <zhobbs> but getting class cast exception
Jun 18 00:20:54 <romainguy> you can't do this in Java
Jun 18 00:21:22 <zhobbs> hm
Jun 18 00:21:44 <f00f-> each object in the array
Jun 18 00:21:56 <zhobbs> Cause I go from MyObj[] to Parcelable, just can't get back unless I loop through huh?
Jun 18 00:22:08 <romainguy> yes
Jun 18 00:22:15 <f00f-> it's "one of those things"
Jun 18 00:22:20 <romainguy> it makes sense
Jun 18 00:22:29 <romainguy> what if your Parcelable[] contained { A, B, C }
Jun 18 00:22:59 <romainguy> casting to A[] would not work but there would be no way to detect it until you access the elements
Jun 18 00:23:10 <romainguy> and you would get a ClassCastException on a myParcel[i]
Jun 18 02:23:08 <_ProZaC_> hi, is this channel about google andoid?
Jun 18 02:23:11 <_ProZaC_> hi, is this channel about google android?
Jun 18 02:23:24 <zhobbs> _ProZaC_: yeah
Jun 18 02:23:47 <_ProZaC_> really?
Jun 18 02:25:14 <zhobbs> yep
Jun 18 02:58:15 <gambler> has anyone tried to use sqlite with an ORM layer like Apache Cayenne?
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