**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 20 02:59:56 2008
Jun 20 04:58:26 <jasta> about to make my first commit back to five in like a month :)
Jun 20 04:58:45 <jasta> 2 months, actually
Jun 20 08:09:45 <anno^da> good morning
Jun 20 08:09:54 <anno^da> whats this channel all about ?
Jun 20 08:13:29 <mickrobk> robots and snowsports
Jun 20 08:13:52 <mickrobk> though i suppose if u want to get technical it's about Google's android os for cell phones
Jun 20 08:15:01 <cutmasta> lol
Jun 20 08:17:24 <anno^da> fine :)
Jun 20 08:18:04 <anno^da> mickrobk: Do you know the android framework and could answer me one tiny question?
Jun 20 08:19:28 <mickrobk> i can try :)
Jun 20 08:21:00 <anno^da> It is something about the life cycle and I don't know if I did understand that the right way
Jun 20 08:21:46 <sleepydroid> go on
Jun 20 08:23:47 <anno^da> I know that I have to save the actual state of my application in the onFreeze method but I don't knwo which things I have to save by myself and which things are saved by the super onFreeze method. So let me give an example. I have a gallery that shows me some pictures. Do I have to do something different than calling super.onFreeze(ouState) in order to save the state the Gallery has at the moment the acivity loses focus?
Jun 20 08:24:24 <anno^da> (calling this method in my overwritten onFreeze method)
Jun 20 08:25:02 <anno^da> The thing is I don't get what I have to save by myself and what is done by the system.
Jun 20 08:25:09 <sleepydroid> mick - do you wanna answer or shall I start?
Jun 20 08:25:43 <mickrobk> i could guess but ive never used gallery
Jun 20 08:25:54 <mickrobk> if u know for sure u should answer
Jun 20 08:26:10 <sleepydroid> well - i know for probable - plus there are resources I know
Jun 20 08:26:31 <anno^da> I take everything I get :)
Jun 20 08:27:06 <mickrobk> we can both guess than...
Jun 20 08:27:22 <sleepydroid> onFreeze being called means that android will remember you state and place another activity in the foreground
Jun 20 08:28:01 <sleepydroid> your activity when it comes back to the foreground "should" be exactly as before.....
Jun 20 08:28:33 <sleepydroid> one sec while I pull up the diagram and then I'll link it here too
Jun 20 08:28:36 <mickrobk> i think gallery is a view, meaning it would have no state information and you would have to save it. Activities on the other hand would rember state. (Ex if you have a map view, you can only place it in a activity that's a subclass of MapActivity, and b/c of that it remebers state)
Jun 20 08:29:37 <anno^da> Hmm but from my point of view a Gallery also has a state. For example if the user has scrolled down ore something like that
Jun 20 08:29:59 <sleepydroid> look at this page and the diagram
Jun 20 08:30:01 <sleepydroid> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html
Jun 20 08:30:18 <sleepydroid> then we will talk about where to save state
Jun 20 08:30:29 <anno^da> yeah I know that diagramm
Jun 20 08:30:47 <mickrobk> yea, im not saying that it doesn't have anything worth remebering, but since it's not an activity it does not recieve lifecycle events
Jun 20 08:31:09 <mickrobk> *note* i could be wrong about it just being a view, now im going to go look
Jun 20 08:31:19 <anno^da> Yeah but
Jun 20 08:31:20 <sleepydroid> I save my state in onPause because thats a guarenteed callback
Jun 20 08:31:28 <anno^da> onFreeze documentation says: "The default implementation of this method takes care of saving icicles from any views attached to your window that are configured to do this themselves. If you do not call through to this method, you will need to take care of all state saving yourself. "
Jun 20 08:32:18 <sleepydroid> the problem is when though?
Jun 20 08:32:27 <anno^da> thats it
Jun 20 08:32:31 <sleepydroid> did you watch Dan Morrill's video from I/O
Jun 20 08:32:36 <anno^da> yeah
Jun 20 08:32:37 <anno^da> :)
Jun 20 08:32:40 <sleepydroid> I think it was him that went over it
Jun 20 08:33:55 <sleepydroid> he said (I think) - onPause is guarenteed - onStop and onDestroy are too late - and onFreeze just means you lose visablility (i.e. android will still have your app whole in memory)
Jun 20 08:34:45 <sleepydroid> oh and onStop and onDestroy are not "guarenteed"
Jun 20 08:34:49 <mickrobk> gallery is def a view, so it doesn't have any lifecycle events on it
Jun 20 08:35:00 <mickrobk> so nothing wrt to saving state is done for you
Jun 20 08:36:37 <sleepydroid> yeah but you must have an activity/IR/service which knows about the gallery? and in the onPause callback for that - is where I would "assume" you would need to save the state of the variables (view in this case) that cannot be re-created
Jun 20 08:36:42 <sleepydroid> ? or?
Jun 20 08:37:09 <mickrobk> yea, he would have to save the state of that view himself in onpause or whatever
Jun 20 08:37:38 <anno^da> hmm but why do they write ""The default implementation of this method takes care of saving icicles from any views attached to your window" in the documentation?
Jun 20 08:38:18 <sleepydroid> hmmmm  dunno - giz link to the doc you are reading?
Jun 20 08:38:25 <anno^da> http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/app/Activity.html#onFreeze(android.os.Bundle)
Jun 20 08:38:32 <sleepydroid> wait a mo then
Jun 20 08:40:06 <sleepydroid> okay - maybe it is onFreeze! ;-)
Jun 20 08:40:23 <sleepydroid> as opposed to onPause
Jun 20 08:40:38 <anno^da> that's what confused me. And if I have to save the state of a view it would be interesting how.. The easiest thing (that came to my mind) was to save the view in a bundle but thats not possible. Another thing is how could I test the onFreeze method. (just open some new activity?)
Jun 20 08:40:42 <anno^da> haha yeah :-)
Jun 20 08:40:47 <anno^da> state saving is onFreeze
Jun 20 08:41:01 <sleepydroid> how do you test?
Jun 20 08:41:12 <sleepydroid> i mean
Jun 20 08:41:16 <anno^da> and data saving is onPause because it is called before killing the process
Jun 20 08:41:17 <sleepydroid> how do you mean test?
Jun 20 08:41:52 <anno^da> Just to see if my state has been saved. From my point of view it should be enough to start another activity
Jun 20 08:42:19 <sleepydroid> as in a duplicate activity with the old state?
Jun 20 08:42:24 <sleepydroid> or?
Jun 20 08:43:21 <anno^da> yeah should work
Jun 20 08:43:39 <mickrobk> interesting, i guess views do have hooks to save state
Jun 20 08:43:41 <mickrobk> thats cool
Jun 20 08:43:57 <anno^da> yeah thats the way I underrstood that
Jun 20 08:44:30 <anno^da> they just have to mention somewhere what states are saved and what you have to do on your own
Jun 20 08:45:03 <sleepydroid> hmmm - you have to persist anything you create....
Jun 20 08:45:39 <sleepydroid> if you want it that is
Jun 20 08:45:42 <mickrobk> anno^da: yea i agree, but is it something u can't figure out just by trying
Jun 20 08:46:09 <anno^da> at the moment it is try and error
Jun 20 08:46:19 <sleepydroid> well you could make your app go through the life cycle
Jun 20 08:46:24 <anno^da> yeah it is I just thought I did miss something :)
Jun 20 08:47:05 <mickrobk> i did :), im glad i know about that now
Jun 20 08:47:12 <mickrobk> thx
Jun 20 08:47:23 <sleepydroid> (not sure I helped)
Jun 20 08:47:46 <anno^da> doesn't matter I'm trying some things out now and give you feedback :)
Jun 20 08:47:56 <sleepydroid> qn. How are you persisting those things you wish to save the state of?
Jun 20 08:48:26 <sleepydroid> to date I've used sqLite
Jun 20 08:48:40 <sleepydroid> but it would be interesting to hear what others use
Jun 20 08:49:07 <mickrobk> sleepydroid, if it's super transient, like the name of the file they were working on i just put it in the bundle passed in onFreeze
Jun 20 08:49:22 <mickrobk> else sqlite + files
Jun 20 08:49:55 <anno^da> sleepydroid: I'm just planing at the moment and doing some research for university. I will use a SQLite DB
Jun 20 08:50:08 <mickrobk> what school?
Jun 20 08:50:40 <sleepydroid> and do you "whack" the bundle into sqlite whole? if you get what I mean?
Jun 20 08:50:43 <anno^da> oh a university in Germany :)
Jun 20 08:51:51 <anno^da> what does whack mean. I would save the bundle in the SQLite db. that's what I planned to do :)
Jun 20 08:52:33 <sleepydroid> I suppose I mean "In one movement quickly" - couldn't think of a better word - tried
Jun 20 08:52:43 <sleepydroid> ok - alles klar
Jun 20 08:52:52 <anno^da> haha :)
Jun 20 08:52:58 <anno^da> hätte ich doch gleich fragen sollen :-)
Jun 20 08:53:07 <sleepydroid> yeah go on
Jun 20 08:53:21 <sleepydroid> I went to a uni in germany for a year
Jun 20 08:53:27 <anno^da> ah fine :)
Jun 20 08:53:38 <anno^da> In which town have you been ?
Jun 20 08:53:42 <sleepydroid> KN
Jun 20 08:54:00 <anno^da> ah :)
Jun 20 08:54:09 <sleepydroid> oooh 13 years ago now
Jun 20 08:54:19 <sleepydroid> my german was shit then and worse now ;-)
Jun 20 08:54:32 <sleepydroid> 14 years even
Jun 20 08:54:36 <sleepydroid> *sigh*
Jun 20 08:55:52 <sleepydroid> so which uni are you at?
Jun 20 08:56:39 <anno^da> I'm at FH Deggendorf at the moment studying media technology
Jun 20 08:57:28 <sleepydroid> media? good for you - straight comp sci - is a bit tiresome!
Jun 20 08:58:43 <anno^da> Yeah it has two sides on the one hand it is a bit broad but you get a view from different perspectives.
Jun 20 08:59:02 <anno^da> From producing music videos to programming
Jun 20 08:59:12 <sleepydroid> true - just looked up Deggendorf - near Munchen?
Jun 20 08:59:23 <anno^da> yeah it is
Jun 20 09:00:11 <sleepydroid> I visited M a few times - found it very peaceful - very "rich" in architecture - never went in October thugh :-(
Jun 20 09:01:26 <anno^da> haha yeah the October Fest but for me that I live here it is nothing special. Just some drunken people having party all night long :-)
Jun 20 09:01:56 <sleepydroid> *sounds great* - yes I had heard that the population of M leave for October ;-)
Jun 20 09:02:31 <sleepydroid> okay - I'm gonna toddle off and try and do some work.....
Jun 20 09:02:38 <sleepydroid> laters
Jun 20 09:04:44 <anno^da> have fun and cu later :)
Jun 20 09:05:11 <anno^da> I'm trying to sqeeze the actvity lifecycle in order to get all the information I need :-)
Jun 20 09:06:02 <sleepydroid> have you seen this? http://blip.tv/file/958450
Jun 20 09:06:35 <anno^da> No haven't seen that yet
Jun 20 09:06:41 <anno^da> But thank you
Jun 20 09:06:49 <anno^da> I will look at it right now
Jun 20 09:07:08 <anno^da> having watched all the videos from the IO over the last few days :)
Jun 20 09:07:12 <sleepydroid> let me know what you think - took me ages to get the recording right
Jun 20 09:07:30 <sleepydroid> wow yes the IO vids were "hard" being an hour long or so
Jun 20 09:07:59 <anno^da> yeah
Jun 20 09:08:09 <sleepydroid> ok - must dash
Jun 20 09:08:19 <anno^da> I had to write out a lot of things so it took more than one hour for each video
Jun 20 09:08:51 <anno^da> ah you're using Ubuntu
Jun 20 09:08:53 <anno^da> fine :)
Jun 20 09:09:10 <sleepydroid> yeah I have a love/hate relationship with it
Jun 20 09:09:37 <anno^da> haha yeah
Jun 20 09:10:10 <anno^da> at the moment I'm using OSX, it just works better for me with all the media technology applications
Jun 20 09:10:48 <anno^da> but on my second pc I'm running Ubuntu. It is great to see the improvement that has been made through the last years
Jun 20 09:11:10 <sleepydroid> yeah - from what I've seen it's much better - Ubuntu media stuff is just ... way too hard
Jun 20 09:11:29 <sleepydroid> okay - definately going now - bye - have fun
Jun 20 09:12:40 <anno^da> :)
Jun 20 12:31:13 <convivial> hi
Jun 20 12:31:23 <convivial> is android actually going to happen?
Jun 20 12:42:44 <convivial> ?
Jun 20 12:42:55 <convivial> is android going to happen?
Jun 20 13:06:27 <anno^da> it is
Jun 20 13:06:37 <anno^da> definetly going to happen
Jun 20 13:25:15 <trigatch4> did you really just ask "is android going to happen?"
Jun 20 13:27:07 <anno^da> it seems so :)
Jun 20 13:27:13 <anno^da> whyt shouldn't it happen :D
Jun 20 13:27:16 <anno^da> -t
Jun 20 14:00:02 <aliass> hi all
Jun 20 14:00:16 <convivial> hi
Jun 20 14:00:22 <aliass> I have a question
Jun 20 14:00:23 <convivial> is android going to really happen?
Jun 20 14:01:04 <aliass> does anybody read me?
Jun 20 14:01:22 <anno^da> convivial: how often would you ask that again ?
Jun 20 14:01:28 <anno^da> we answered that already :)
Jun 20 14:01:28 <convivial> i read you but you didn't say antybhing
Jun 20 14:01:35 <convivial> anno^da: until it is answered!
Jun 20 14:01:46 <anno^da> What would you like to hear :)
Jun 20 14:01:51 <michaelnovakjr> convivial of course it is going to happen
Jun 20 14:01:55 <michaelnovakjr> why wouldn't it?
Jun 20 14:01:58 <convivial> ok.
Jun 20 14:02:00 <anno^da> I will happen. It will happen in Q4
Jun 20 14:02:02 <anno^da> s008
Jun 20 14:02:03 <aliass> I want to add a button to the menu (go to, bookmarks...)
Jun 20 14:02:04 <anno^da> 2008
Jun 20 14:02:22 <michaelnovakjr> aliass, what's your question?
Jun 20 14:02:37 <aliass> how do I add a button to android web browser menu?
Jun 20 14:02:53 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 20 14:02:56 <aliass> hi
Jun 20 14:03:05 <aliass> I am using WebView
Jun 20 14:03:08 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean add a button to the menu?
Jun 20 14:03:12 <aliass> well
Jun 20 14:03:28 <aliass> the menu already has a number of buttons: go to, bookmars...
Jun 20 14:03:41 <michaelnovakjr> yes3
Jun 20 14:03:42 <aliass> I want to add my own button to perform my functionality
Jun 20 14:03:58 <aliass> something like 'my button'
Jun 20 14:04:16 <michaelnovakjr> i am not sure there's an api for modifiying the actual phone browser
Jun 20 14:04:24 <aliass> how can I do that? I am using webview to display web browser
Jun 20 14:04:26 <michaelnovakjr> atleast i hope not
Jun 20 14:04:30 <aliass> I use Webview
Jun 20 14:04:44 <michaelnovakjr> you are using a webview in your own application?
Jun 20 14:04:53 <aliass> yes
Jun 20 14:05:07 <michaelnovakjr> and you want to add a button to your application menu?
Jun 20 14:05:17 <aliass> yes :)
Jun 20 14:05:20 <michaelnovakjr> ah i see
Jun 20 14:05:24 <aliass> easy?
Jun 20 14:05:42 <aliass> if so, how?
Jun 20 14:06:17 <michaelnovakjr> http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial-ex1.html
Jun 20 14:06:27 <michaelnovakjr> that is a link to an android tut with menu examples
Jun 20 14:07:39 <aliass> oh, I see
Jun 20 14:08:28 <aliass> I see 'creating and handling' menu options
Jun 20 14:09:46 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 20 14:09:54 <michaelnovakjr> menus are really simple
Jun 20 14:17:21 <Dougie187> hows it going michaelnovakjr?
Jun 20 14:17:33 <michaelnovakjr> not bad you?
Jun 20 14:17:46 <Dougie187> not too bad. you get a lot of names in your composition book this morning on the subway?
Jun 20 14:17:49 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 20 14:17:53 <Dougie187> nice
Jun 20 14:18:00 <Dougie187> thats the way to do it.
Jun 20 14:18:02 <michaelnovakjr> check this out www.bigbuckbunny.org
Jun 20 14:18:45 <Dougie187> wtf
Jun 20 14:18:47 <Dougie187> what is it?
Jun 20 14:19:02 <michaelnovakjr> its an open source project
Jun 20 14:19:06 <Dougie187> a game?
Jun 20 14:19:07 <Dougie187> or what?
Jun 20 14:19:08 <michaelnovakjr> animated movie
Jun 20 14:20:04 <Dougie187> ...
Jun 20 14:20:28 <michaelnovakjr> its an animated movie created with open source software
Jun 20 14:20:34 <michaelnovakjr> dude like shrek
Jun 20 14:21:44 <Dougie187> how long is it?
Jun 20 14:22:00 <michaelnovakjr> about 10 minutes
Jun 20 14:22:10 <michaelnovakjr> its awesome
Jun 20 14:22:18 <michaelnovakjr> i am totally impressed
Jun 20 14:30:39 <Dougie187> Lol
Jun 20 14:30:47 <Dougie187> that was pretty funny
Jun 20 14:30:50 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 20 14:30:57 <Dougie187> so it was made with blender i take it?
Jun 20 14:30:58 <michaelnovakjr> that was built with Blender
Jun 20 14:31:02 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 20 14:31:12 <Dougie187> I didnt know blender was open source.
Jun 20 14:31:42 <Dougie187> thats pretty cool
Jun 20 14:32:08 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 20 14:32:11 <michaelnovakjr> its awesome
Jun 20 14:33:53 <Dougie187> i like how he was a kite at the end.
Jun 20 14:34:19 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 20 14:37:08 <Dougie187> you find a new laptop yet?
Jun 20 14:37:39 <michaelnovakjr> unfortunately not
Jun 20 14:37:45 <michaelnovakjr> but my apple has two watchers on ebay!
Jun 20 14:37:56 <michaelnovakjr> i want a 13 inch xps
Jun 20 14:38:50 <Dougie187> nice
Jun 20 14:38:55 <Dougie187> whats it up to on ebay?
Jun 20 14:39:08 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 14:39:08 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/20/segas-homestar-spa-plane-arium-edition/
Jun 20 14:39:17 <Dougie187> not sure if you ever watch south park.
Jun 20 14:39:21 <Dougie187> if you do, you might get this.
Jun 20 14:41:00 <Dougie187> sprint's instinct is out too
Jun 20 14:41:01 <Dougie187> bt
Jun 20 14:41:02 <Dougie187> btw
Jun 20 14:47:24 <trigatch4> yeah
Jun 20 14:47:34 <trigatch4> i can't believe the instinct is only 129.99
Jun 20 14:47:43 <trigatch4> thats a steal for the quality of that product
Jun 20 14:57:18 <zhobbs_> samsung should release an android version of the instinct
Jun 20 15:00:33 <Dougie187> trigatch4: yeah but thats with a new contract, a mail in rebate, and you have to have a specific plan.
Jun 20 15:00:39 <Dougie187> but i guess thats comparable to the iphone
Jun 20 15:00:56 <michaelnovakjr> apple is making $325 bucks off att with each iphone purchase
Jun 20 15:01:08 <michaelnovakjr> and that is just for buying the phone
Jun 20 15:01:28 <Dougie187> and with the 3g one you cant activate it without going to an ATT store.
Jun 20 15:01:38 <Dougie187> the instinct you can activate it online, or on the phone.
Jun 20 15:01:50 <Dougie187> brb
Jun 20 15:05:59 <trigatch4> the cheapest instinct contract, with unlimited data, is 69.99
Jun 20 15:06:14 <trigatch4> 129.99 + 69.99 = $199.98
Jun 20 15:06:24 <trigatch4> ONE PENNY less than the iphone
Jun 20 15:06:30 <michaelnovakjr> i pay 70 with sprint for the touch
Jun 20 15:06:31 <trigatch4> plus you get service
Jun 20 15:06:54 <trigatch4> i have the verizon voyager
Jun 20 15:07:00 <trigatch4> there is a voyager 2 coming out for the holidays
Jun 20 15:07:01 <Dougie187> lol i have a $30/month plan with sprint.
Jun 20 15:07:07 <trigatch4> that phone with android would be SICK
Jun 20 15:07:10 <Dougie187> but i dont want to increase that to 70 just for the instinct
Jun 20 15:07:31 <trigatch4> why would you?
Jun 20 15:07:37 <trigatch4> you're not going to wait for android phone?
Jun 20 15:07:52 <Dougie187> no i will
Jun 20 15:07:53 <trigatch4> no point in buying it now when in the next 6 months there will be an android phone
Jun 20 15:07:56 <Dougie187> thats why i dont have a new phone now.
Jun 20 15:07:57 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 15:07:59 <trigatch4> unless you have multimple phones
Jun 20 15:08:05 <michaelnovakjr> the touch will handle android nicely
Jun 20 15:08:17 <michaelnovakjr> i'm not going to upgrade to an 'android phone'
Jun 20 15:08:18 <Dougie187> my wife wants a new phone too
Jun 20 15:08:23 <Dougie187> but we are going to wait for an android phone
Jun 20 15:08:51 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr: why not?
Jun 20 15:09:02 <trigatch4> the revolution will leave you in the dust, my friend
Jun 20 15:09:04 <trigatch4> hehe ;)
Jun 20 15:09:09 <michaelnovakjr> cause my phone will be good for it
Jun 20 15:09:18 <trigatch4> ah gotchya
Jun 20 15:09:36 <michaelnovakjr> the touch will run great with android
Jun 20 15:09:44 <Dougie187> we will, because we havn't bought a new phone in like 3 year
Jun 20 15:09:45 <Dougie187> years
Jun 20 15:10:18 <Dougie187> we still have the original katanas.
Jun 20 15:10:19 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 15:10:25 <trigatch4> hahahhaha
Jun 20 15:10:30 <trigatch4> damn dude
Jun 20 15:10:33 <trigatch4> thats rough
Jun 20 15:10:46 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 20 15:10:49 <Dougie187> these things blow too
Jun 20 15:10:55 <trigatch4> there are some SICK phones coming out
Jun 20 15:11:10 <trigatch4> i think thats why nobody is announcing android phones
Jun 20 15:11:16 <Dougie187> yeah i was going to get a BB Pearl a while ago, but i figured id wait for android
Jun 20 15:11:18 <trigatch4> they want their phones on the market NOW to sell
Jun 20 15:11:27 <trigatch4> there are a bunch of better blackberries coming out
Jun 20 15:11:30 <trigatch4> BlackBerry Bold
Jun 20 15:11:35 <trigatch4> BlackBerry Javelin
Jun 20 15:11:42 <Dougie187> yeah the bold looks cool
Jun 20 15:11:43 <trigatch4> BlackBerry Thunder (touch screen)
Jun 20 15:11:53 <trigatch4> LG Dare touch screen on Verizon is looking really sick
Jun 20 15:11:54 <Dougie187> but i didnt want a BB because you have to get an extra data plan with sprint for the
Jun 20 15:11:56 <Dougie187> them*
Jun 20 15:11:59 <trigatch4> comes out June 26th
Jun 20 15:12:01 <Dougie187> id rather just get a smart phone
Jun 20 15:12:06 <trigatch4> word
Jun 20 15:12:35 <Dougie187> especially since my 30/month plan includes data already
Jun 20 15:12:39 <trigatch4> Sprint has been rumored to be bought out by T-Mobile like every other month
Jun 20 15:12:45 <Dougie187> data, text, picture mail.
Jun 20 15:12:46 <trigatch4> but Android and WiMax are gonna save them
Jun 20 15:12:53 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 20 15:12:55 <trigatch4> 2009 is gonna be a good year for sprint i think
Jun 20 15:12:57 <Dougie187> with clearwire
Jun 20 15:13:00 <Dougie187> hopefully.
Jun 20 15:13:12 <Dougie187> their customer service has been slowly getting better as well
Jun 20 15:13:14 <trigatch4> i'm happy... 3 main wireless providers isnt enough
Jun 20 15:13:16 <trigatch4> we'
Jun 20 15:13:19 <trigatch4> we're already down to 4
Jun 20 15:13:21 <Dougie187> ive been with them for like 5 years now.
Jun 20 15:13:37 <Dougie187> and man was their service horrible before.
Jun 20 15:13:48 <Dougie187> i only stayed because my family is on it, and the cell service was the best i had.
Jun 20 15:13:51 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4, sprint needs a good year before that :)
Jun 20 15:15:00 <trigatch4> i live in baltimore and sprint is testing wimax in baltimore before anywhere else
Jun 20 15:15:07 <trigatch4> in september
Jun 20 15:15:26 <trigatch4> i wanna call those hoes up and see if i can test it out and review it on my site
Jun 20 15:15:38 <trigatch4> interviewz
Jun 20 15:18:09 <trigatch4> should i download 1) N.E.R.D. album or 2) Lil Wayne album?
Jun 20 15:18:20 <trigatch4> i need something to listen to while i'm working
Jun 20 15:18:23 <michaelnovakjr> coldplay
Jun 20 15:19:30 <michaelnovakjr> whatever you listen to, make it in FLAC!
Jun 20 15:19:39 <michaelnovakjr> its an orgasm for your ears :)
Jun 20 15:47:37 <carl0s-> What are the changes of Andoid handsets incorporating support for Exchange Activesync, or of some sort of bridge software being created similar to Blackberry Enterprise Server, so users with Exchange mailboxes can have push email on android based handsets?
Jun 20 15:47:43 <carl0s-> s/changes/chances
Jun 20 15:48:25 <carl0s-> (and, probably more importantly, OTA calendar sync) ?
Jun 20 16:09:50 <trigatch4> holla holla holla
Jun 20 16:11:34 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 16:11:44 <Dougie187> carl0s-: that question probably can't be answered yet.
Jun 20 16:12:13 <Dougie187> but you can ask romainguy_
Jun 20 16:12:14 <Dougie187> he might know.
Jun 20 16:34:47 <carl0s-> Dougie187, OK. I just read about that Fobwhatsit thing, which sounds like it would provide the bridge, but Exchange ActiveSync by itself works well enough on Symbian devices (hate WM), and apparently iPhone 2.0 too, so it would be a nice (important to me) thing to have. Other than that I can't wait to get my hands on something. I'll be an earlier adopter for sure.
Jun 20 16:35:15 <carl0s-> Funambol
Jun 20 16:35:45 <michaelnovakjr> i wouldn't worry about exchange support
Jun 20 16:35:49 <michaelnovakjr> it'll be there for sure
Jun 20 16:36:00 <carl0s-> michaelnovakjr, As in, it'll be there, or as in it's not important to you?
Jun 20 16:36:00 <carl0s-> ah
Jun 20 16:36:07 <carl0s-> Super.
Jun 20 16:36:30 <michaelnovakjr> its too much of a dependent to not be included
Jun 20 16:36:43 <michaelnovakjr> zimbra support will be there too :)
Jun 20 16:36:47 <carl0s-> I agree. I couldn't beleive the iPhone's didn't have it, but they have/are addressing that.
Jun 20 16:36:59 <michaelnovakjr> iphone is a joke
Jun 20 16:37:06 <michaelnovakjr> doesn't even come with a video camera
Jun 20 16:37:17 <michaelnovakjr> and only 16gb?
Jun 20 16:37:28 <carl0s-> Zimbra have closed themselves off from small businesses! I priced up their thing and it was more expensive than a whole SBS 2003 installation (5 user). That was maybe 8 months ago though.
Jun 20 16:37:29 <michaelnovakjr> i much prefer to support android
Jun 20 16:37:42 <michaelnovakjr> carl0s-, i run Zimbra
Jun 20 16:37:49 <michaelnovakjr> and i don't pay a thing :)
Jun 20 16:38:20 <carl0s-> michaelnovakjr, I'd love to run it too, but it's priced for larger companies and the open source package was too limited (as always with these commercial things that have a "community edition")
Jun 20 16:38:37 <michaelnovakjr> what do you need that the community edition doesn't have?
Jun 20 16:39:08 <carl0s-> can't remember :D. Probably Exchange ActiveSync, Outlook Connector? It was a while ago I looked..
Jun 20 16:39:31 <michaelnovakjr> any reason for exchange if you have zimbra?
Jun 20 16:39:37 <carl0s-> oh
Jun 20 16:40:04 <michaelnovakjr> zimbra to me is 100 times better than exchange and pretty much covers everything
Jun 20 16:40:07 <carl0s-> I'm being stupid. Erm, OTA wireless sync with mobile devices is what I meant. I think I was thinking that Zimbra emulated an Exchange ActiveSync server.
Jun 20 16:40:21 <michaelnovakjr> you mean push services?
Jun 20 16:40:24 <carl0s-> yep
Jun 20 16:40:33 <michaelnovakjr> ah, its not that expensive
Jun 20 16:40:42 <michaelnovakjr> i use imap which isn't bad at all
Jun 20 16:41:08 <carl0s-> I am selling the idea of these Nokia E51s with Exchange Servers like pie. It's great, particularly from a calendaring point of view for small companies where the on-the-road guy wants his secretary to see his calendar, be able to amend it, and for it to appear on his phone.
Jun 20 16:41:09 <michaelnovakjr> push is nice, but not entirely useful to everyone
Jun 20 16:41:38 <michaelnovakjr> i do that now :)
Jun 20 16:41:39 <carl0s-> I like it. Read/unread sync, sent sync, calendar sync.
Jun 20 16:41:55 <carl0s-> I'll take another look at Zimbra open source when I get a min then ;)
Jun 20 16:42:02 <michaelnovakjr> its a good idea
Jun 20 16:42:10 <michaelnovakjr> plus you don't have to maintain windows servers
Jun 20 16:42:13 <michaelnovakjr> yuck!
Jun 20 16:42:28 <michaelnovakjr> i have windows servers for domain controlling and file serving
Jun 20 16:42:45 <michaelnovakjr> otherwise its a bsd fleet, with the exception of the centos zimbra setup
Jun 20 16:43:12 <carl0s-> I wholeheartedly look forward to an open source future. I have started by pushing OpenOffice to my clients where possible (where they don't need to work with existing access databases, mail merge from proprietary apps etc), so that they aren't so tied to the windows desktop.
Jun 20 16:43:29 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 20 16:43:31 <michaelnovakjr> its a big plus
Jun 20 16:43:58 <michaelnovakjr> i support windows systems, because people use them
Jun 20 16:44:10 <michaelnovakjr> and the file serving is nice and simple
Jun 20 16:44:14 <carl0s-> I am on Fedora here, and have been since F8s release, but my job is maintaining windows networks & desktops.
Jun 20 16:44:18 <michaelnovakjr> i can use cifs on linux to talk to the server
Jun 20 16:44:25 <carl0s-> yeh
Jun 20 16:44:42 <michaelnovakjr> i'm on mandriva... wasn't a big fedora fan
Jun 20 16:44:43 <carl0s-> I gotta go. Missus is home. Nice speaking to you :)
Jun 20 16:44:49 <michaelnovakjr> take care
Jun 20 16:44:53 <carl0s-> and you
Jun 20 16:53:10 <Dougie187> lol i dont see how anyone is a fedora fan
Jun 20 16:53:21 <Dougie187> though, if its between centos and fedora i would take fedora hands down.
Jun 20 17:19:19 <michaelnovakjr> i don't see why you hate centos?
Jun 20 17:19:27 <michaelnovakjr> its a good server system
Jun 20 17:42:16 <f00f-> hehe
Jun 20 17:42:26 <f00f-> lots of kids run centos in prod
Jun 20 17:42:37 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 20 17:42:48 <f00f-> people that cant choose or dont know better run RHEL in prod
Jun 20 17:43:09 <f00f-> people that have choice usually choose debian
Jun 20 17:43:17 <f00f-> havent heard much about SLES in prod
Jun 20 17:45:11 <michaelnovakjr> are you saying red hat in production is a joke?
Jun 20 17:46:22 <f00f-> not a joke per se
Jun 20 17:46:28 <f00f-> usually it's mandated by ISV agreements or somesuch
Jun 20 17:46:38 <f00f-> or some people that learned on something stick with that
Jun 20 17:47:06 <michaelnovakjr> i don't find it to be bad
Jun 20 17:47:14 <michaelnovakjr> zimbra runs nicely on it
Jun 20 17:47:30 <michaelnovakjr> all my other servers are bsd though, so i'm not hardcore red hat :)
Jun 20 17:47:56 <michaelnovakjr> except obviously the windows ones
Jun 20 17:48:06 <f00f-> yeah
Jun 20 17:49:49 <michaelnovakjr> f00f- did you see www.bigbuckbunny.org
Jun 20 17:51:32 <f00f-> interesting. will check it out in a bit.
Jun 20 17:51:37 <f00f-> going for a haircut! bbl
Jun 20 17:51:57 <michaelnovakjr> enjoy!
Jun 20 17:55:41 <Dougie187> lol i hate centos a lot because i have to use it on the desktops at work.
Jun 20 17:55:45 <Dougie187> and it just sucks.
Jun 20 17:55:58 <Dougie187> all the repos are way behind.
Jun 20 17:56:04 <Dougie187> hell we dont even have firefox 2.0 on them.
Jun 20 17:56:07 <Dougie187> we are still using 1.5
Jun 20 17:56:14 <Dougie187> but they call that "Stable"
Jun 20 17:57:33 <michaelnovakjr> damn
Jun 20 17:57:56 <michaelnovakjr> now, i wouldn't use it for desktop that is for sure :)
Jun 20 18:05:21 <grub> hey, any android developers here?
Jun 20 18:05:32 <romainguy> sue
Jun 20 18:05:33 <romainguy> sure
Jun 20 18:06:17 <grub> romainguy, you make apps for android? :)
Jun 20 18:06:22 <romainguy> I make android :)
Jun 20 18:08:04 <grub> well, I wanted to start developing or rather understanding Android. But, my skills aren't really 1337 right now :P. I got my SCJP cert some days ago, if that shows how little i know as of now. What would you suggest? where do i start?
Jun 20 18:10:25 <romainguy> Have you visited http://code.google.com/android/ yet?
Jun 20 18:10:51 <romainguy> You can go visit http://code.google.com/android/intro/index.html which tells you everything you need to get started and teaches you how to write your first app
Jun 20 18:10:53 <grub> yes, actually i am reading up the "hello android" tutorial right now
Jun 20 18:25:26 <zhobbs_> grub: do the official tutorial and there's also lots of tutorials at andev.org and some at helloandroid.com
Jun 20 18:25:52 <grub> zhobbs yep just reached andev.org :)
Jun 20 18:25:54 <grub> thanks
Jun 20 18:37:49 <Dougie187> lol zhobbs
Jun 20 18:37:53 <Dougie187> trying to get some more hits?
Jun 20 18:40:18 <grub> :o
Jun 20 18:40:33 <grub> zhobbs runs andev?
Jun 20 18:43:15 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 20 18:43:26 <michaelnovakjr> when android comes out i'll have androidnerds.com up
Jun 20 18:44:02 <michaelnovakjr> it'll host open source projects for android at no charge
Jun 20 19:01:10 <f00f-> Dougie187: stable is good =)
Jun 20 19:10:41 <Dougie187> f00f-: sure, but old and unsupported is not stable
Jun 20 19:11:57 <M|eric> are here people who are working with the android SDK? ;D
Jun 20 19:12:04 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 19:12:11 <Dougie187> not since about a month ago
Jun 20 19:12:37 <M|eric> huh?
Jun 20 19:12:54 <Dougie187> not since the end of ADC Round 1
Jun 20 19:13:07 <Dougie187> before that most people were.
Jun 20 19:13:23 <Dougie187> after that, most people stopped, until they release a new public SDK
Jun 20 19:13:43 <M|eric> mmh... cause i have some problems... i think the documentation sucks^
Jun 20 19:13:49 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 19:13:52 <Dougie187> let romainguy know.
Jun 20 19:13:53 <michaelnovakjr> whats the problem
Jun 20 19:14:12 <Dougie187> you sure are nice michaelnovakjr.
Jun 20 19:14:12 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 19:14:21 <zhobbs_> M|eric: what's your probs?
Jun 20 19:16:18 <M|eric> isnt there any other documentation? in my documentation it starts with the simple hello world end then with some exercises of far higher level... i mean... i can program java-applications...but i think somethings missing in the documentation... between the hello world and the exercises
Jun 20 19:16:33 <M|eric> and
Jun 20 19:16:37 <zhobbs_> I disagree
Jun 20 19:16:38 <M|eric> i mean;)
Jun 20 19:16:45 <zhobbs_> the official tutorial is pretty good
Jun 20 19:16:52 <michaelnovakjr> it is
Jun 20 19:17:05 <M|eric> the tutorial in the documentation? or youtube tutorials from google?^
Jun 20 19:19:18 <zhobbs_> in the docs
Jun 20 19:19:20 <M|eric> so you succeeded in the exercises without looking in the solutions?
Jun 20 19:19:31 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 20 19:19:36 <M|eric> sorry for my english^^ im from germany
Jun 20 19:20:12 <zhobbs_> M|eric: http://code.google.com/android/intro/tutorial.html
Jun 20 19:27:15 <M|eric> oh lol;D now i know how i can do it.... i was trying for few hours... kk...im off...
Jun 20 20:17:53 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr lies about androidnerds
Jun 20 20:18:11 <trigatch4> he means to say he will abandon androidnerds and simply begin writing for phandroid starting tomorrow
Jun 20 20:18:17 <trigatch4> :)
Jun 20 20:26:47 <zhobbs_> yeah, we don't need another blog
Jun 20 20:27:00 <zhobbs_> just need better news on helloandroid
Jun 20 20:31:17 <michaelnovakjr> androidnerds is NOT a blog
Jun 20 20:31:56 <michaelnovakjr> its a development community sponsoring promotion of open source applications as well as management for the development teams
Jun 20 20:32:44 <zhobbs_> cool
Jun 20 20:39:11 <f00f-> Dougie187: true dat.
Jun 20 20:40:48 <Dougie187> and.. thats why i hate centos
Jun 20 20:43:11 <f00f-> but then again you dont want something that's too updated
Jun 20 20:43:29 <Dougie187> but i would rather have something thats at least "up-to-date"
Jun 20 20:43:39 <f00f-> kernel upgrade once a year is the minimum imho
Jun 20 20:43:45 <Dougie187> i think i would prefer unstable alpha's then centos
Jun 20 20:43:46 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 20:43:47 <f00f-> i mean, not more often
Jun 20 20:43:55 <Dougie187> so you mean maximum
Jun 20 20:44:00 <f00f-> right
Jun 20 20:44:01 <f00f-> =)
Jun 20 20:44:13 <Dougie187>  maybe in a server environment.
Jun 20 20:44:19 <f00f-> exactly
Jun 20 20:44:19 <newpers> when will an android phone hit the verizon market?
Jun 20 20:44:27 <f00f-> i only do server environments in production
Jun 20 20:44:29 <f00f-> not desktops :)
Jun 20 20:44:34 <Dougie187> or something that you dont want to change a lot, like classrooms and systems that you have to administer.
Jun 20 20:44:38 <f00f-> newpers: 2009 or later
Jun 20 20:44:43 <f00f-> yea
Jun 20 20:44:55 <Dougie187> f00f-: you have heard of phones hitting verizon?
Jun 20 20:45:09 <Dougie187> ive only heard of tmobile and sprint.
Jun 20 20:45:14 <newpers> same here
Jun 20 20:45:16 <f00f-> sprint hasnt confirmed have they?
Jun 20 20:45:26 <Dougie187> no, but has tmobile?
Jun 20 20:45:28 <newpers> i heard tmobile
Jun 20 20:45:34 <newpers> i thought so
Jun 20 20:45:36 <Dougie187> those were the only rumours that i heard.
Jun 20 20:45:37 <f00f-> i've talked to t-mobile, they are definitely going ahead with it
Jun 20 20:45:44 <newpers> when?
Jun 20 20:45:46 <newpers> any ideas
Jun 20 20:45:50 <Dougie187> i would assume sprint would as well, since they are in OHA
Jun 20 20:45:53 <f00f-> yeah, before the end of the year :)
Jun 20 20:45:58 <Dougie187> Sprint and Tmobile should be by the end of the year
Jun 20 20:46:00 <Dougie187> IMO
Jun 20 20:46:07 <Dougie187> at least one of them will be.
Jun 20 20:46:19 <f00f-> give it 3-4 months
Jun 20 20:46:34 <f00f-> Sprint is in deep shit right now
Jun 20 20:46:37 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 20 20:46:38 <newpers> heh
Jun 20 20:46:38 <f00f-> not sure if they'll do android for a while
Jun 20 20:46:46 <Dougie187> i bet they will.
Jun 20 20:46:50 <f00f-> althoug hesse is cleaning up shop, or trying to
Jun 20 20:46:54 <Dougie187> it would boost their users.
Jun 20 20:47:02 <f00f-> they've lost so many and are still losing
Jun 20 20:47:03 <Dougie187> especially if it was only tmobile and sprint that had android for a while.
Jun 20 20:47:22 <Dougie187> sprint lost a lot because they had shitty customer service.
Jun 20 20:47:30 <f00f-> i think android will be the most benefit to T-Mo since they still need a killer device for their 3G network
Jun 20 20:47:34 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 20 20:47:42 <Dougie187> yeah they do.
Jun 20 20:47:43 <michaelnovakjr> sprint customer service is horrible
Jun 20 20:47:48 <Dougie187> and sprint just came out with instinct.
Jun 20 20:47:52 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: its getting better though.
Jun 20 20:48:00 <Dougie187> it was quite a lot worse then it is.
Jun 20 20:48:05 <newpers> i'm just happy my contract has expired
Jun 20 20:48:05 <Dougie187> though, ive givin up calling them
Jun 20 20:48:06 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 20:48:15 <newpers> i will join the first network to release android
Jun 20 20:48:17 <newpers> phoone
Jun 20 20:48:17 <f00f-> i heard they're moving CS back to the states
Jun 20 20:48:26 <Dougie187> hopefully.
Jun 20 20:48:36 <Dougie187> their CS was a bunch of arrogant assholes who wouldnt listen to you.
Jun 20 20:48:41 <f00f-> i love whenever i call ibm/lenovo support, i get some one in the midwest :P
Jun 20 20:48:43 <Dougie187> even if you told them exactly what was wrong.
Jun 20 20:49:33 <michaelnovakjr> US support is good
Jun 20 20:49:34 <Dougie187> ive found, if you email sprints ecare department, you get far better customer support.
Jun 20 20:50:48 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr what kinda plan do you have?
Jun 20 20:51:01 <michaelnovakjr> unlimited data and 450 minutes
Jun 20 20:51:06 <michaelnovakjr> i don't like talking on the phone
Jun 20 20:51:23 <Dougie187> how much do you pay, if you dont mind me asking.
Jun 20 20:51:42 <newpers> i pay $78 after taxes with verizon for 800 minutes and no data plan
Jun 20 20:51:54 <AttractiveApe> :s
Jun 20 20:51:59 <Dougie187> yikes.
Jun 20 20:52:03 <newpers> exactly
Jun 20 20:52:05 <michaelnovakjr> i pay roughly 73 a month
Jun 20 20:52:13 <michaelnovakjr> that includes 1000 txt messages
Jun 20 20:52:14 <Dougie187> check this out michaelnovakjr
Jun 20 20:52:17 <Dougie187> www.sprint.com/sero
Jun 20 20:52:20 <Dougie187> login with this
Jun 20 20:52:21 <Dougie187> savings@sprintemi.com
Jun 20 20:52:33 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Jun 20 20:52:44 <Dougie187> 30 bucks a line, 500 minutes, unlimited web/data texts and picture mail.
Jun 20 20:52:52 <newpers> does google still have that award for the coolest android app
Jun 20 20:53:05 <Dougie187> lol yes?
Jun 20 20:53:14 <Dougie187> ADC1 Round 2 is going on right now.
Jun 20 20:53:22 <newpers> Dougie187: thanks
Jun 20 20:53:23 <newpers> heh
Jun 20 20:53:28 <Dougie187> the top 5 from ADC Round 1 have to submit in July.
Jun 20 20:53:36 <Dougie187> ADC2 doesnt start up until a handset is released.
Jun 20 20:54:12 <f00f-> Dougie187: a buddy of mine shared that with me too
Jun 20 20:54:21 <Dougie187> the sero thing?
Jun 20 20:54:22 <f00f-> but i just won't support non-standards compliant networks
Jun 20 20:54:24 <f00f-> yeah
Jun 20 20:54:31 <Dougie187> my wife and i have it.
Jun 20 20:54:39 <Dougie187> and my little brother.
Jun 20 20:54:41 <Dougie187> its pretty sweet
Jun 20 20:54:47 <f00f-> there's even a sprint developer program that might have a cheaper rate than sero
Jun 20 20:54:58 <f00f-> but you need to be a dev
Jun 20 20:54:58 <Dougie187> we use to pay like 120 for 550 minutes shared, 300 text messages.
Jun 20 20:55:06 <f00f-> how much do you pay monthly
Jun 20 20:55:15 <Dougie187> now we pay ~68 after taxes
Jun 20 20:55:51 <f00f-> hmm.. i pay $55 for 450 min, unlimited N&W, 5000 M-to-M
Jun 20 20:55:55 <f00f-> with att
Jun 20 20:56:11 <Dougie187> afaik you can't get the instinct though.
Jun 20 20:56:11 <f00f-> i send maybe 5 texts a month
Jun 20 20:56:18 <Dougie187> my wife texts a lot.
Jun 20 20:56:19 <f00f-> i buy unlocked phones
Jun 20 20:56:30 <Dougie187> we get unlimited M-to-M and unlimited N&W at 7pm
Jun 20 20:56:45 <f00f-> most of my calling i do at night (for android)
Jun 20 20:56:48 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 20 20:56:49 <f00f-> so i barely touch any of my 450 minutes
Jun 20 20:56:53 <Dougie187> same here.
Jun 20 20:56:56 <f00f-> and plus rollover, it's insane
Jun 20 20:56:58 <f00f-> i'll never reach the limit
Jun 20 20:56:59 <Dougie187> they set it up so we share 1000 minutes.
Jun 20 20:57:02 <Dougie187> heh yeah
Jun 20 20:57:05 <f00f-> yeah sharing is nice
Jun 20 20:57:08 <Dougie187> you probably have like 2 million minutes.
Jun 20 20:57:12 <f00f-> do oyu pay extra for it?
Jun 20 20:57:14 <Dougie187> nope.
Jun 20 20:57:20 <Dougie187> they just set it up that way.
Jun 20 20:57:23 <f00f-> so kinda like a family plan?
Jun 20 20:57:27 <Dougie187> sortof.
Jun 20 20:57:31 <Dougie187> but its not supposed to be
Jun 20 20:57:31 <f00f-> add line for $XX per month
Jun 20 20:57:36 <Dougie187> because each phone has its own plan.
Jun 20 20:57:42 <f00f-> hm ok
Jun 20 20:57:44 <Dougie187> each plan is 30 bucks a month.
Jun 20 20:57:49 <Dougie187> sero plans can only be on 1 line.
Jun 20 20:57:51 <Dougie187> afaik
Jun 20 20:58:19 <Dougie187> i was bitchy when my contract ended, because i was paying a ton for a whole lot of crap.
Jun 20 20:58:34 <f00f-> yeah, i can udnerstand
Jun 20 20:58:39 <f00f-> ooh i forgot to add
Jun 20 20:58:42 <f00f-> i get unlimited data too
Jun 20 20:58:44 <Dougie187> i was paying more for 2 lines then my dad pays for 4 lines and he has more features.
Jun 20 20:58:48 <Dougie187> yeah. unlimited data is nice.
Jun 20 20:59:04 <Dougie187> i dont really use it right now, but once i get a smart phone (android) im gonna tether all the time.
Jun 20 20:59:04 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 20:59:44 <Dougie187> we were thinking about leaving sprint.
Jun 20 20:59:57 <Dougie187> but then i found the sero plan. and remembered sprint is in the OHA.
Jun 20 21:00:01 <Dougie187> so i didnt wanna leave just yet.
Jun 20 21:00:17 <Dougie187> luckily though, our contract is still up. so we get the discount when we get new phones.
Jun 20 21:01:02 <f00f-> nice
Jun 20 21:01:29 <Dougie187> do you like ATT?
Jun 20 21:02:01 <f00f-> yeah
Jun 20 21:02:04 <f00f-> i like their forums and online chat
Jun 20 21:02:07 <f00f-> very nice CS
Jun 20 21:02:13 <Dougie187> heh thats always good.
Jun 20 21:02:22 <Dougie187> they had shitty covereage where i use to live, so we didnt really even look into att.
Jun 20 21:03:01 <f00f-> i think i get like a 20% a service discount to
Jun 20 21:03:05 <Dougie187> nice
Jun 20 21:03:10 <Dougie187> loyality?
Jun 20 21:03:17 <Dougie187> loyalty*
Jun 20 21:03:20 <f00f-> no
Jun 20 21:03:24 <f00f-> company
Jun 20 21:04:04 <Dougie187> cool
Jun 20 21:04:10 <f00f-> ORIGINALLY: $39.99
Jun 20 21:04:11 <f00f-> MONTHLY COST: $30.79
Jun 20 21:04:35 <f00f-> well it's not on the taxes
Jun 20 21:04:38 <f00f-> so it doesnt help that much
Jun 20 21:04:42 <f00f-> only on the service itself
Jun 20 21:05:31 <f00f-> where you at dougie ?
Jun 20 21:05:51 <Dougie187> like living?
Jun 20 21:06:04 <f00f-> now in spacetime, and yes where you live
Jun 20 21:06:26 <Dougie187> well now in spacetime im at land market 152234 on planet 58729.
Jun 20 21:06:29 <Dougie187> but i live in florida
Jun 20 21:06:33 <Dougie187> i use to live in oregon
Jun 20 21:06:38 <f00f-> oooh
Jun 20 21:06:44 <Dougie187> the ATT Cell tower in oregon use to go down all the time.
Jun 20 21:06:49 <f00f-> i think i've mentioned i watch CSI: Miami
Jun 20 21:06:52 <Dougie187> they would lose coverage for weeks.
Jun 20 21:06:55 <f00f-> oh no
Jun 20 21:06:56 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 21:07:04 <Dougie187> i watch CSI:Las Vegas
Jun 20 21:07:08 <Dougie187> and live in Tallahassee.
Jun 20 21:07:12 <Dougie187> so not Miami
Jun 20 21:07:31 <Dougie187> your a big Horatio fan?
Jun 20 21:07:40 <f00f-> heh
Jun 20 21:07:45 <f00f-> not in the traditional sense
Jun 20 21:07:50 <f00f-> his moves are just hilarious
Jun 20 21:08:04 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 20 21:08:08 <f00f-> "We..... have a sinking crime scene" - while putting on his shades
Jun 20 21:08:19 <Dougie187> do you ever watch The Soup?
Jun 20 21:08:30 <f00f-> no, what's that?
Jun 20 21:08:37 <Dougie187> its a show that makes fun of other shows.
Jun 20 21:08:40 <Dougie187> its on E!
Jun 20 21:08:42 <Dougie187> tonight i believe.
Jun 20 21:09:22 <f00f-> hm okay
Jun 20 21:09:25 <zhobbs> the soup
Jun 20 21:09:40 <zhobbs> that show is good
Jun 20 21:09:58 <Dougie187> yeah its really funny
Jun 20 21:10:03 <Dougie187> they make fun of horatio all the time
Jun 20 21:10:15 <Dougie187> i think its on tonight at like 10
Jun 20 21:10:16 <Dougie187> but im not sure
Jun 20 21:10:30 <f00f-> hahaha okay
Jun 20 21:10:31 <f00f-> on E! ?
Jun 20 21:10:46 <zhobbs> yeah
Jun 20 21:10:54 <zhobbs> was "talk soup" back in the day
Jun 20 21:38:57 <trigatch4> im bored
Jun 20 21:39:03 <trigatch4> entertain me, jesters
Jun 20 21:43:02 <trigatch4> i am growing impatient
Jun 20 21:43:07 <trigatch4> or is it inpatient?
Jun 20 21:43:19 <trigatch4> our outpatient... like outpatient surgery
Jun 20 21:49:20 <jasta> impatient
Jun 20 21:54:02 <f00f-> outpatient surgery
Jun 20 21:56:56 <f00f-> ugh not getting any work done
Jun 20 22:01:08 <jasta> i am ;)
Jun 20 22:04:21 <trigatch4> im not
Jun 20 22:04:37 <trigatch4> i am stuck in a land called procrastination and i can't get the eff out
Jun 20 22:04:41 <trigatch4> my mind keeps wandering
Jun 20 22:04:53 <f00f-> i know the feeling
Jun 20 22:04:56 <f00f-> it happens a lot on fridays
Jun 20 22:07:07 <jasta> get off irc ;P
Jun 20 22:07:24 <trigatch4> well
Jun 20 22:07:39 <trigatch4> i am going to dinner and a movie in like 2 hours
Jun 20 22:07:44 <trigatch4> and i have to shower and change and stuff
Jun 20 22:07:54 <trigatch4> so i think i am just giving up on work for the remainder of the day/night
Jun 20 22:13:31 <AttractiveApe> mmm, new update for the Vogue running Android jasta.
Jun 20 22:13:54 <AttractiveApe> he mentions that the phone can charge off of usb now, so I'm intrigued if that means usb negotiation is working.
Jun 20 22:18:13 <jasta> interesting
Jun 20 22:19:20 <AttractiveApe> yeah, it's connecting with rndis
Jun 20 22:19:21 <AttractiveApe> neat.
Jun 20 22:20:54 <jasta> AttractiveApe: according to the patch, he still comments out the hsusb device
Jun 20 22:21:15 <jasta> so either he hasn't updated it yet, or the usb controller is actually not any better supported here...
Jun 20 22:21:43 <jasta> i've went back to working on more practical projects since i dont have the phone
Jun 20 22:22:11 <jasta> right now, i'm fixing up libsyncml to better support client mode so that i can use it for both sides of my project
Jun 20 22:22:20 <jasta> it technically supports client mode, but its just terrible :)
Jun 20 22:22:32 <AttractiveApe> okay jasta
Jun 20 22:22:46 <AttractiveApe> When the sd controller works, I'll be happy to test our your app :)
Jun 20 22:22:55 <AttractiveApe> Any anybody elses, for that matter.
Jun 20 22:24:01 <jasta> i still think it will crash... i think it is crashing for another reason, possibly something to do with my use of content observers...
Jun 20 22:24:14 <jasta> i wanted to get usb working so that i could access the log.
Jun 20 22:24:25 <jasta> and ultimately, a debugger
Jun 20 22:27:23 <AttractiveApe> I wonder how hard it would be to run openssh, and just ssh in...
Jun 20 22:29:33 <jasta> probably impossible.  the carrier network is certainly not going to permit that ;)
Jun 20 22:30:02 <jasta> getting alocal shell would also be possible, and pretty simple really
Jun 20 22:30:15 <jasta> however, you'd have to interact with it on that lousy soft keyboard
Jun 20 22:30:19 <jasta> which would be agonizing
Jun 20 22:31:27 <jasta> what i'd do to create a shell is provide a JNI punch through to ioctl and a few other PTY functions
Jun 20 22:31:59 <jasta> then create a real UNIX98 PTY, and lay one of the exsiting VT100 terminal emulator Java libraries on top of that
Jun 20 22:32:09 <jasta> which would create a correct, functional shell.
Jun 20 22:32:30 <jasta> but again, i dont want to use that with a soft keyboard ;)
Jun 20 22:34:49 <AttractiveApe> heh
Jun 20 22:35:15 <AttractiveApe> as for carrier network, it would be pretty easily to reverse tunnel it in.
Jun 20 22:35:28 <AttractiveApe> As for the horrible osk, it's been fixed in the release today.
Jun 20 22:35:29 <jasta> this, btw, would create a much better terminal app than the one romain spoke of as being developed by the android team internally
Jun 20 22:35:34 <AttractiveApe> bit better I'd say.
Jun 20 22:36:00 <jasta> since theirs clearly does not create a UNIX PTY, it just pumps text through bash and outputs the result
Jun 20 22:36:01 <jasta> which is quite different than a terminal
Jun 20 22:36:07 <AttractiveApe> yeah
Jun 20 22:36:11 <jasta> it's still an OSK, and that still makes it bad.  even using a hard keybaord on a phone to use a shell would be lame
Jun 20 22:36:35 <jasta> i thought about creating a terminal app just so we'd have one to use on real handsets when they come out
Jun 20 22:36:46 <f00f-> ugh
Jun 20 22:36:50 <f00f-> better only be for developers
Jun 20 22:37:00 <AttractiveApe> Well, it's not like you're going to do heavy work with the osk
Jun 20 22:37:03 <AttractiveApe> just for exploring around.
Jun 20 22:37:11 <jasta> but two thoughts occurred to prevent that work: 1) who cares?  we should be able to use adb still, and 2) it would require a JNI component, and so you'd need to build it for all sorts of different platforms conceivably
Jun 20 22:38:28 <jasta> my hope is that real devices will offer convenient features for exploring around.  they must, at a minimum, support debugging
Jun 20 22:38:49 <romainguy> "this, btw, would create a much better terminal app than the one romain spoke of as being developed by the android team internally" << first of all, you haven't used it so it's a bit difficult to judge it :), second of all it's not "being developed", it was written so we'd have a least a basic shell on the phone and that's all we need
Jun 20 22:38:49 <jasta> and with that, a shell is not far off even if they don't provide one
Jun 20 22:39:01 <AttractiveApe> I'm just surprised that Google isn't making developer handsets available.
Jun 20 22:39:23 <jasta> romainguy: i don't have to use it to know exactly why it sucks.  without a pty, you've got a serial interface to shell scripting.  terrible.
Jun 20 22:39:35 <jasta> also, San told me it's terrible.
Jun 20 22:45:03 <jasta> AttractiveApe: i'm surprised by a lot of things going on lately :)
Jun 20 22:50:00 <AttractiveApe> jasta: yeah :(
Jun 20 22:50:19 <AttractiveApe> well, get Five working with Rhythmbox and I'll use that too jasta ;)
Jun 20 23:02:41 <trigatch4> everything said since i last spoke was 5 notches above my head
Jun 20 23:03:08 <trigatch4> out of the loop
Jun 20 23:03:39 <f00f-> =]
Jun 21 02:55:19 <coderjjt009> hi
Jun 21 02:55:32 <coderjjt009> anyone here in phase II?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 21 02:59:56 2008