**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 02:59:56 2008
Jun 23 03:20:02 <f00f-> quite a bit of progress today
Jun 23 03:22:33 <zhobbs> congrats
Jun 23 03:22:45 <zhobbs> you onto the client yet?
Jun 23 03:26:28 <duey> when do you guys find out you didn't win moar money?
Jun 23 03:26:41 <zhobbs> august
Jun 23 03:26:45 <duey> close
Jun 23 03:48:17 <trigatch4> ^^ duey what a d-bag you are haha
Jun 23 03:50:39 <f00f-> zhobbs: hopefully next week, we're still working on UI mockups ;)
Jun 23 03:57:14 <duey> trigatch4: :P
Jun 23 03:57:16 <duey> i dont mean it
Jun 23 03:57:22 <trigatch4> hehe i know
Jun 23 03:57:26 <trigatch4> it was funny
Jun 23 05:15:07 <trigatch4> uhoh....
Jun 23 05:15:09 <trigatch4> not lookin good guys
Jun 23 10:27:47 <gambler> whats wrong
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 11:09:06 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 23 12:01:13 2008
Jun 23 13:09:20 <trigatch4> anyone up?
Jun 23 13:15:55 <michaelnovakjr> howdy
Jun 23 13:21:56 <trigatch4> whattup michaelnovakjr
Jun 23 13:22:19 <trigatch4> you seeing all these headlines?
Jun 23 13:22:39 <Dougie187> what headlines?
Jun 23 13:23:45 <michaelnovakjr> what headlines?
Jun 23 13:24:14 <michaelnovakjr> ???
Jun 23 13:24:50 <mazzen> hm... maybe he means http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Bericht-Verzoegerungen-bei-der-Entwicklung-von-Android-Handys--/meldung/109827 (it's german) about "android delay".
Jun 23 13:25:10 <michaelnovakjr> what android delay
Jun 23 13:26:18 <mazzen> Chinese mobile phone companies said, that they have difficulties with translating android into chinese.
Jun 23 13:26:43 <mazzen> and that currently it's hard for developer, as android has a lot of changes in code and code structure
Jun 23 13:27:46 <michaelnovakjr> how does that effect the US and Europe?
Jun 23 13:29:15 <mazzen> most cell phones are manufactured in china... and i think that they will create *one* android image file, which will have all languages inside. and will not build separated versions of android for each country
Jun 23 13:29:54 <mazzen> hm... but  i'm very surprised about the "translation reason". i have never seen, any translation possibilities in android so far.
Jun 23 13:29:58 <mazzen> did i miss something?
Jun 23 13:30:44 <spykid> mazzen: http://code.google.com/android/devel/resources-i18n.html ?
Jun 23 13:30:51 <mazzen> and we still do not know, if this is the headline trigatch4 meant :D
Jun 23 13:31:16 <trigatch4> yeah, android delay is what i meant
Jun 23 13:31:40 <trigatch4> from Wall Street Journal... says all their time is spent with t-mobile and its taking longer than expected
Jun 23 13:31:56 <mazzen> hey, spykid! thanks!
Jun 23 13:31:57 <trigatch4> Sprint has delayed until possiblye Q1 2009
Jun 23 13:32:08 <trigatch4> same with a Chinese manufacturer
Jun 23 13:32:17 <trigatch4> ugh
Jun 23 13:32:30 <spykid> trigatch4: Did you read the whole article, do they name any reliable source?
Jun 23 13:33:30 <Dougie187> that kinda sucks.
Jun 23 13:33:43 <Dougie187> though i dont care about the Chinese Manufacturer, but still.
Jun 23 13:33:53 <trigatch4> well, the exact delays just quote "reliable sources"
Jun 23 13:34:07 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 13:34:08 <trigatch4> but it was reported by WSJ which is pretty reputable
Jun 23 13:34:43 <Dougie187> true.
Jun 23 13:34:56 <Dougie187> thats disappointing that they are spending all their time with T-Mobile too
Jun 23 13:35:26 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr (probably) and I would prefer they talk to Sprint more.
Jun 23 13:35:27 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 13:35:31 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 13:35:33 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 13:35:42 <Dougie187> + im not a big Tmobile fan.
Jun 23 13:35:52 <Dougie187> afaik their plans suck. and their service isnt that great either.
Jun 23 13:35:55 <michaelnovakjr> yea me too
Jun 23 13:36:07 <mazzen> spykid: but my now, there is only a "Coming Soon:..." for  "Internationalization and Localization". so... either the chinese manufacturers have a newer SDK, or they're hacking something on there own, or?
Jun 23 13:36:14 <Dougie187> do they even have any HTC phones?
Jun 23 13:36:50 <trigatch4> what do you guys think of this quote: "Developers are finding it hard to write apps for Android because Google keeps making changes to the Android."
Jun 23 13:36:57 <tethridge> trigatch4, I just logged on, is there an article that you guys are talking about?
Jun 23 13:37:02 <Dougie187> mazzen: keep in mind, they dont have documentation up for the "current" sdk.
Jun 23 13:37:17 <trigatch4> all the articles saying Android is delayed
Jun 23 13:37:21 <trigatch4> i gotta go write mine up now
Jun 23 13:37:23 <trigatch4> brb
Jun 23 13:37:24 <Dougie187> the currrent SDK is the NDA one, so they cant post any of their stuff related to that online.
Jun 23 13:37:25 <trigatch4> ;)
Jun 23 13:37:40 <tethridge> are these new articles?
Jun 23 13:37:47 <Dougie187> i guess its from today.
Jun 23 13:37:50 <mazzen> Dougie187: ah, yes, that's true. you're right. i forgot this.
Jun 23 13:37:53 <Dougie187> theres also one in german.
Jun 23 13:38:07 <Dougie187> (9:24:49 AM) mazzen: hm... maybe he means http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Bericht-Verzoegerungen-bei-der-Entwicklung-von-Android-Handys--/meldung/109827 (it's german) about "android delay".
Jun 23 13:38:28 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr, i think that the "Dream" would come to Sprint.
Jun 23 13:38:30 <tethridge> of how long?  I don't speak German
Jun 23 13:38:41 <Dougie187> because Tmobile doesnt even have HTC phones.
Jun 23 13:38:48 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 13:39:18 <Dougie187> tethridge: i guess Sprint said they would delay until Q1 09, and Chinese developers said they would just delay. I guess Google is only working with Tmobile and its making it hard for anyone else to get work done.
Jun 23 13:39:44 <michaelnovakjr> Google is screwing this whole thing up
Jun 23 13:39:50 <tethridge> they are making it hard for me to put off an iPhone purchase
Jun 23 13:39:54 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 23 13:40:01 <Dougie187> write dan an email
Jun 23 13:40:05 <Dougie187> and see if he will come explain.
Jun 23 13:40:12 <mazzen> tethridge: t-mobile hopes to sell an android phone at the end of this year, china mobile in the beginning of 2009. so the "german" source
Jun 23 13:40:44 <spykid> mazzen: the german source is only quoting WSJ as all other articles also ;)
Jun 23 13:40:53 <tethridge> I currently have Sprint, so I was hoping to get an HTC android phone
Jun 23 13:41:12 <Dougie187> tethridge: i cant imagine the HTC android phone going to Tmobile.
Jun 23 13:41:19 <michaelnovakjr> i have an HTC touch phone with sprint
Jun 23 13:41:30 <michaelnovakjr> i'll just take what google started and finish it myself
Jun 23 13:41:31 <spykid> I'm still optimistic ;)
Jun 23 13:41:53 <tethridge> I don't see how keeping developers in the dark is considered "open"
Jun 23 13:42:10 <mazzen> spykid: i didn't find the english source and the news seems to be *sooo* ;-) new, that even google search did'nt found it. but maybe i just used the wrong key words ;-)
Jun 23 13:42:27 <tethridge> Google is doing a great job of defining how not to run a open source project
Jun 23 13:42:36 <Dougie187> hah
Jun 23 13:42:47 <michaelnovakjr> go to the wall street journal site
Jun 23 13:42:52 <Dougie187> i like how romain is theo nly one who comes in here too
Jun 23 13:42:55 <michaelnovakjr> they are the ones with the knowledge
Jun 23 13:43:04 <Dougie187> so we cant see if anyone else knows anything about it
Jun 23 13:43:09 <michaelnovakjr> these dumb blog sites are just interpreting the real story
Jun 23 13:43:10 <mazzen> tethridge: novel build the "wobble" desktop first on there own too and released the source, when it was ready to do it.
Jun 23 13:43:11 <Dougie187> since dan and jason are just avoiding us.
Jun 23 13:43:30 <tethridge> mazzen, and they still get a lot of grief for doing that.
Jun 23 13:43:44 <tethridge> it works, but it didn't inspire a lot of teamwork
Jun 23 13:44:08 <tethridge> it actually wasted a lot of effort because people went off and started other projects to do the same thing
Jun 23 13:44:21 <Dougie187> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121418837707895947.html?mod=2_1571_topbox
Jun 23 13:44:25 <Dougie187> theres your article
Jun 23 13:44:25 <tethridge> gee, that appears to be happening again, eh michaelnovakjr?
Jun 23 13:44:55 <michaelnovakjr> what appears to be happening
Jun 23 13:45:08 <tethridge> I've heard of developers here hacking the old sdk to get a running phone
Jun 23 13:45:30 <michaelnovakjr> i wouldn't call my idea hacking...
Jun 23 13:45:34 <tethridge> effort that could be used to get other features working that haven't already been done inside Google
Jun 23 13:45:42 <michaelnovakjr> more or less supporting my phone on my carrier :)
Jun 23 13:47:06 <tethridge> I'm just making the point that, like Novell developing Compiz, closing developers out is inefficient and often causes new duplicate efforts/projects to spring up
Jun 23 13:47:09 <mazzen> tethridge: maybe.... maybe not. i think it's a very hard business place and apples iphone is a strong "rival" (?). so i guess, google just wants a "surprising moment", when they finally release it. of course i would like to see, what the current android can do,  but for marketing reason i can understand, why they try to hide the possibilities a bit.
Jun 23 13:47:45 <michaelnovakjr> what marketing?
Jun 23 13:47:46 <tethridge> that is where modular development practices could help
Jun 23 13:47:52 <michaelnovakjr> there isn't a product yet
Jun 23 13:47:59 <tethridge> develop a common platform and release it
Jun 23 13:48:18 <tethridge> then have your "skunkworks" develop the bling
Jun 23 13:48:37 <tethridge> devs are happy and consumers are surprised
Jun 23 13:48:49 <Dougie187> i think their main problem right now, is they are developing and letting companies request new features. so as they go they get new things they have to add. and they might take a long time.
Jun 23 13:48:58 <Dougie187> so i think their development is fragmented a bit.
Jun 23 13:50:04 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr, did you read the WSJ article?
Jun 23 13:50:16 <michaelnovakjr> reading it now
Jun 23 13:50:30 <trigatch4> you guys have full access to WSJ article?
Jun 23 13:50:31 <spykid> For me all these things in the WSJ make now sense
Jun 23 13:50:39 <spykid> no
Jun 23 13:50:40 <trigatch4> that ish is $90/year
Jun 23 13:50:50 <michaelnovakjr> i get it delivered in the morning
Jun 23 13:50:53 <Dougie187> here tri
Jun 23 13:50:54 <Dougie187> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121418837707895947.html?mod=2_1571_topbox
Jun 23 13:51:22 <trigatch4> sweeeeeet
Jun 23 13:51:26 <trigatch4> thank you sir
Jun 23 13:51:51 <spykid> I had some insight how these articles are written and I personally think they didn't know what they really write about ;)
Jun 23 13:52:09 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4, you should just copy and paste the article :)
Jun 23 13:52:18 <trigatch4> hahhahahaha
Jun 23 13:52:20 <mazzen> an example: steve jobs tries to hide every information about the iphone - until they released it. and mostly everyone was surprised of the *new* features. this leads to headlines. but i 'm just speculating. i really think that this is one of the reason, next to all of the code changes. if i do remember right, robert love said, that hight amount of code changes is the main reason, why they still didnt release it.
Jun 23 13:52:51 <trigatch4> phandroid is reporting: <pasted article>. They stole this article from us anyways.
Jun 23 13:52:54 <michaelnovakjr> i think blog news sites are annoying. they should just provide a link to the original story
Jun 23 13:53:22 <trigatch4> i usually provide a link... but offering an opinion/perspective is part of the purpose
Jun 23 13:53:28 <trigatch4> style of writing...
Jun 23 13:53:29 <trigatch4> etc
Jun 23 13:54:16 <michaelnovakjr> yea, but its all speculation based on a story not something you were told first person
Jun 23 13:54:38 <tethridge> mazzen, I hear what you're saying, but what is supposed to make the android platform special is that it's open source.  If I wanted closed development with lots of bang I would just go buy the iPhone July 11th
Jun 23 13:55:38 <mazzen> for developers :-) not nor "normal" paying people/customers :)
Jun 23 13:55:54 <tethridge> yeah, this is about me.  :-)
Jun 23 13:55:56 <trigatch4> reading it from WSJ is still speculation
Jun 23 13:56:04 <trigatch4> just once removed instead of twice removed
Jun 23 13:56:10 <michaelnovakjr> yes, but they actually did reporting
Jun 23 13:56:18 <mazzen> and these are the people, which has to be surprised, so they buy a "googlephone" and not an iphone. :)
Jun 23 13:56:22 <michaelnovakjr> its like the game of telephone
Jun 23 13:56:55 <trigatch4> Dougie187: where is this WSJ article link from? can i link to this from phandroid?
Jun 23 13:57:07 <Dougie187> i got it from online.wsj.com
Jun 23 13:57:21 <Dougie187> just go to their site, and click on technology.
Jun 23 13:57:25 <Dougie187> its like the headline
Jun 23 13:58:22 <Dougie187> i think google could have tried to incorporate the OS community a bit more, and it would have helped their efforts to produce android in a timely manor.
Jun 23 13:58:33 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 13:58:38 <Dougie187> as they have been hasseled before for not using branches.
Jun 23 13:58:48 <Dougie187> or having freeze schedules would be nice too.
Jun 23 13:59:22 <Dougie187> i bet they could have got a ton of people to contribute to some of the various branches.
Jun 23 13:59:26 <Dougie187> thats like free labor.
Jun 23 13:59:34 <Dougie187> so it seems stupid that they didnt.;
Jun 23 14:00:28 <anno^da_> because Tmobile doesnt even have HTC phones.  <- Thats not right
Jun 23 14:00:29 <Dougie187> they could still oversee the finished product, and make sure it complied with their standards. but thats just completely free labor. and the only reason they arn't doing it is because they dont want the community to know about "features" that the various carriers are planning to have in their phones.
Jun 23 14:00:41 <Dougie187> anno^da_: i didnt see any on their site.
Jun 23 14:00:46 <anno^da_> every T-Mobile Vario is a HTC
Jun 23 14:01:00 <anno^da_> I don't know about the devices in the US
Jun 23 14:01:05 <Dougie187> Vario?
Jun 23 14:01:26 <anno^da_> but in Germany every smartphone running Windows Mobile from T-Mobile is from HTC
Jun 23 14:01:39 <anno^da_> they sell it under a different lable
Jun 23 14:02:00 <anno^da_> http://www.4phones.de/Technische_Daten/T-Mobile/Vario/527.html
Jun 23 14:02:11 <anno^da_> That is just one example
Jun 23 14:02:31 <anno^da_> the thing is you don't have to stick with t-mobile
Jun 23 14:02:37 <anno^da_> in order to run android phones
Jun 23 14:02:44 <Dougie187> oh i know.
Jun 23 14:02:51 <Dougie187> im not planning to ever switch to tmobile
Jun 23 14:02:55 <anno^da_> :)
Jun 23 14:02:56 <Dougie187> http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/
Jun 23 14:02:57 <anno^da_> fine :D
Jun 23 14:03:19 <Dougie187> maybe the Shadow is an HTC, but i dont know
Jun 23 14:03:24 <Dougie187> or the wing
Jun 23 14:04:02 <Dougie187> this one.
Jun 23 14:04:02 <Dougie187> http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/phones/Cell-Phone-Detail.aspx?cell-phone=T-Mobile-Wing%E2%84%A2
Jun 23 14:04:29 <mazzen> Dougie187: i beg you to do it!!!!!  ;-) in my mental derangement i bought a few shares, as i wanted to invest in something autochthonous ....
Jun 23 14:04:42 <Dougie187> hah
Jun 23 14:04:48 <trigatch4> now that i htink about it...
Jun 23 14:04:55 <trigatch4> this news is pretty retarded
Jun 23 14:05:08 <Dougie187> it is pretty retarded trigatch4
Jun 23 14:05:13 <Dougie187> they dont really say anything new.
Jun 23 14:05:18 <Dougie187> its all stuff we already expected.
Jun 23 14:05:21 <trigatch4> Google has said, "the first android handset will come in the 2nd half of 2008"
Jun 23 14:05:26 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 23 14:05:26 <trigatch4> and that is still the case
Jun 23 14:05:32 <Dougie187> and they are just changing it to Q4 09
Jun 23 14:05:37 <Dougie187> i mean
Jun 23 14:05:38 <Dougie187> 08
Jun 23 14:06:24 <Dougie187> I like how google still mentions, "We got 1800 submissions" but they never say, "And we screwed 1750 of them out of developing!"
Jun 23 14:08:04 <spykid> Q4 is what Google corporate communications team gives out to everyone who asks, try it yourself :D
Jun 23 14:08:58 <spykid> WSJ is a mashup of comments, old news and some speculations plus a lot of misundertanding
Jun 23 14:10:21 <michaelnovakjr> are you from google?
Jun 23 14:11:16 <spykid> Nope
Jun 23 14:11:42 <michaelnovakjr> so then what makes you more credible than the wsj?
Jun 23 14:11:59 <spykid> Nothing ;)
Jun 23 14:12:32 <michaelnovakjr> google messed android up!
Jun 23 14:12:46 <Dougie187> true.
Jun 23 14:22:35 <trigatch4> i think spykid is right, to be honest
Jun 23 14:23:38 <michaelnovakjr> i don't think so
Jun 23 14:23:59 <michaelnovakjr> i am predicting no earlier than Q2 of 09
Jun 23 14:24:11 <michaelnovakjr> you'll see
Jun 23 14:34:32 <michaelnovakjr> dual boot mac and linux on a macbook pro
Jun 23 14:43:58 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr...
Jun 23 14:44:22 <michaelnovakjr> i successfully have my macbook pro dual booting mac and linux
Jun 23 14:45:40 <trigatch4> for future reference, you know, for when you start writing articles on phandroid
Jun 23 14:45:55 <trigatch4> this is what i mean by covering another article but providing your own opinion/spin:
Jun 23 14:45:57 <trigatch4> http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121418837707895947.html?mod=2_1571_topbox
Jun 23 14:45:59 <trigatch4> fuck
Jun 23 14:46:12 <trigatch4> http://phandroid.com/2008/06/23/android-delayed-depends-on-who-you-ask/
Jun 23 14:47:48 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 15:24:55 <jasta> yay, when we left earth is done downloading :)
Jun 23 15:26:33 <michaelnovakjr> hey jasta, http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121418837707895947.html?mod=2_1571_topbox
Jun 23 15:26:38 <michaelnovakjr> did you see that yet?
Jun 23 15:43:04 <anno^da_> I don't get the whole thing here, they alwasy said q4
Jun 23 15:43:12 <anno^da_> so why is there a delay :P
Jun 23 15:44:08 <michaelnovakjr> sprint is saying Q1 2009
Jun 23 15:44:23 <michaelnovakjr> which means it'll probably be Q2 2009 before its out
Jun 23 15:46:30 <trigatch4> eh
Jun 23 15:46:39 <trigatch4> i just think sprint decided that their future is wimax
Jun 23 15:46:46 <trigatch4> android is a next-gen device
Jun 23 15:47:03 <jasta> well, let's all be realistic.
Jun 23 15:47:12 <trigatch4> why not combine android and wimax and really beat up on the iphone since their trying to do that with the whole "instinct" thing to begin with
Jun 23 15:47:30 <jasta> did any of us think Google was going to launch early?  i mean, when they say second half of '08, don't you all picture Nov/Dec?
Jun 23 15:47:39 <trigatch4> EXACTLY
Jun 23 15:47:41 <trigatch4> thank you
Jun 23 15:47:59 <trigatch4> which is why all these idiots re-reporting hte news from WSJ are exaggerating just for headlines
Jun 23 15:48:02 <jasta> even if internally they are aiming for Jul/Aug, everyone in the public still knows they won't make it until late ;)
Jun 23 15:48:19 <trigatch4> they havent said how many carriers, how many handsets, etc.. .they just said 2nd half 2008 you'll see the first handset
Jun 23 15:48:36 <michaelnovakjr> dude trigatch4 you just did that yourself
Jun 23 15:48:48 <michaelnovakjr> you were all excited and couldn't wait to write about it
Jun 23 15:50:40 <trigatch4> apparently, jasta... this article says more than you claim morril has in terms of developers
Jun 23 15:51:15 <trigatch4> google is busy working with carriers and manufacturers to customize the android code for THEIR developers so... they take priority and you eat dust
Jun 23 15:51:16 <trigatch4> ;)
Jun 23 16:10:20 <muthu> WSJ is reporting google phones are getting delayed
Jun 23 16:10:36 <michaelnovakjr> wow, little late
Jun 23 16:10:51 <michaelnovakjr> its been the topic of discussion for about 4 hours now
Jun 23 16:11:32 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 16:11:33 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 23 16:11:45 <Dougie187> hes been smoking too much in SF
Jun 23 16:11:59 <Dougie187> if he was back home, he would have got it done 10 hours ago.
Jun 23 16:12:04 <Dougie187> before it even came out.
Jun 23 16:12:16 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 16:12:32 <muthu> its only 9 herer
Jun 23 16:12:39 <Dougie187> hes a little slow because of the pot.
Jun 23 16:12:44 <muthu> hehe
Jun 23 16:12:49 <muthu> last week!
Jun 23 16:12:57 <michaelnovakjr> last week of pot?
Jun 23 16:13:02 <muthu> oh yeah
Jun 23 16:13:06 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 16:18:51 <jasta> trigatch4: i already knew that.
Jun 23 16:21:13 <trigatch4> jasta: i was being facetious
Jun 23 16:24:53 <jasta> interesting quote right at the end:
Jun 23 16:24:59 <jasta> But he says Weather Channel has had to "rewrite a few things" so far, and Google's most recent revision of Android "is going to require some significant work," he says.
Jun 23 16:25:09 <trigatch4> yeah, i saw that
Jun 23 16:25:13 <jasta> that most recent revision would be the private one.
Jun 23 16:25:18 <trigatch4> yup
Jun 23 16:25:32 <trigatch4> meaning ADC 1 entrants have a lot of work ahead of them if they want to continue
Jun 23 16:27:52 <Dougie187> jasta: how do you know there isnt another private release though?
Jun 23 16:27:56 <jasta> mostly this article is drivel, though.
Jun 23 16:27:58 <Dougie187> i guess it depends when the quote is from.
Jun 23 16:28:06 <jasta> Dougie187: it was from yesterday
Jun 23 16:28:19 <jasta> err no, the article was posted today
Jun 23 16:28:28 <jasta> but i suppose that does not indicate when the quote was made.
Jun 23 16:28:31 <Dougie187> yeah, but when were the quotes taken.
Jun 23 16:28:45 <Dougie187> so the quotes could have been 2 days ago, or a month ago.
Jun 23 16:28:52 <Dougie187> a month would indicate m16.
Jun 23 16:28:57 <Dougie187> but after that we dont know.
Jun 23 16:29:32 <jasta> well, i wouldn't think the weather channel would be in a privileged position to receive updates outside the normal community
Jun 23 16:29:42 <jasta> the reason being that they won the ADC, so obviously they aren't a mobile partner.
Jun 23 16:29:46 <Dougie187> well maybe that is part of the NDA.
Jun 23 16:29:55 <Dougie187> we dont know the NDA members dont get additional releases.
Jun 23 16:30:08 <jasta> who are you referring to?  the ADC winners?
Jun 23 16:30:10 <Dougie187> we just assumed they stop at m16, or what ever.
Jun 23 16:30:18 <jasta> we did?
Jun 23 16:30:19 <Dougie187> yeah, and the other OHA members.
Jun 23 16:30:31 <jasta> the ADC winners are to receive regular updates
Jun 23 16:30:46 <jasta> in fact, they are guaranteed to get a new one 3 weeks before their deadline at the end of July.
Jun 23 16:30:53 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 16:30:55 <Dougie187> that blows.
Jun 23 16:30:57 <jasta> which they must support in order to win.
Jun 23 16:31:03 <Dougie187> that sucks balls for them.
Jun 23 16:31:56 <jasta> yeah, it's honestly not a good deal.
Jun 23 16:37:20 <anno^da_> the thing is why do you care about sprint oder t-mobile ?
Jun 23 16:37:49 <anno^da_> HTC will definetly get devices on the market in q4
Jun 23 16:38:09 <jasta> uhm, HTC isn't a carrier.
Jun 23 16:38:17 <anno^da_> So I dont care about the operators
Jun 23 16:38:26 <jasta> they can't (read: won't) launch devices without a carrioer.
Jun 23 16:38:30 <jasta> carrier*
Jun 23 16:38:32 <anno^da_> yeah but that doesnt matter.
Jun 23 16:38:37 <anno^da_> hmm in the US
Jun 23 16:38:42 <anno^da_> but not in GErmany
Jun 23 16:38:44 <jasta> In the US, it most certainly does matter.
Jun 23 16:38:57 <michaelnovakjr> what are you talking about
Jun 23 16:39:03 <anno^da_> You can buy HTC devices directly from HTC without a carrier
Jun 23 16:39:06 <michaelnovakjr> there won't be a phone without carrier support
Jun 23 16:39:07 <jasta> We don't even know what markets Google is targeting, anno^da_.
Jun 23 16:39:20 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ that's great but where are you going to activate it
Jun 23 16:40:18 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: why not ? You take a SIM card from one of the discounters
Jun 23 16:40:37 <jasta> anno^da_: Well, first of all if HTC makes a phone coupled with Sprint, there is no SIM.  It's CDMA.
Jun 23 16:40:45 <michaelnovakjr> exactly
Jun 23 16:40:45 <anno^da_> Yeah in the US
Jun 23 16:40:48 <jasta> Second of all, HTC often doesn't make world phones.
Jun 23 16:40:51 <anno^da_> but NOT in germany ;)
Jun 23 16:41:03 <jasta> anno^da_: Right, but you don't know that Android is being launched in the German market, do you?
Jun 23 16:41:06 <anno^da_> in Germany we have SIM cards in every device
Jun 23 16:41:25 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ but even still you can't activate it
Jun 23 16:41:29 <anno^da_> It is not the closed system like in the us
Jun 23 16:41:37 <spykid> anno^da_: what you can do doesn't matter, 80% of all handsets are still bought from the carrier
Jun 23 16:41:39 <michaelnovakjr> if i have an att phone, and try to activate it with tmobile... it doesn't work
Jun 23 16:41:50 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: I have never activated a mobile phone here except the iPhone
Jun 23 16:42:14 <michaelnovakjr> what are you talking about?
Jun 23 16:42:18 <jasta> anno^da_: You are not understanding something here.  If the phone is locked as they are traditionally, or if the phone simply deosn't support your country's band, what will you do?
Jun 23 16:42:27 <anno^da_> I can use a vodafone sim card with every t-nobile or whatever more device
Jun 23 16:42:50 <michaelnovakjr> i guarantee you android will not have support like that
Jun 23 16:42:55 <anno^da_> jasta: But HTC will not offer devices only for the US
Jun 23 16:43:06 <spykid> michaelnovakjr: For Europe they have to
Jun 23 16:43:11 <jasta> anno^da_: What makes you so sure?  What do your data rates look like?
Jun 23 16:43:12 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: I gurantee you they will ;)
Jun 23 16:43:38 <michaelnovakjr> you had to activate an iphone didn't you?
Jun 23 16:43:44 <jasta> I can promise you that Android will not launch in any market without reasonable, unlimited data plans.
Jun 23 16:43:52 <jasta> There simply is no money for them there.
Jun 23 16:43:58 <anno^da_> Yeah that was the first phone here in Germany and evryone laughed about that.
Jun 23 16:44:43 <anno^da_> They will not close the system like Apple did with the iPhone
Jun 23 16:44:55 <jasta> anno^da_: Actually, I have spoken with Google folks at I/O and ... They will.
Jun 23 16:44:57 <michaelnovakjr> how do you know?
Jun 23 16:45:05 <anno^da_> yeah in the US
Jun 23 16:45:06 <michaelnovakjr> they already started with an NDA
Jun 23 16:45:08 <mazzen> anno^da_: SIMcards in every device? not in a nokia nxx ;-)
Jun 23 16:45:35 <anno^da_> mazzen: getting the SIM lock down isnt that difficult ;)
Jun 23 16:45:49 <jasta> anno^da_: You're setting yourself for a great deal of disappointment here.  Please, look into what Google has done and said so far.
Jun 23 16:45:56 * mazzen just wanted to be funny
Jun 23 16:46:01 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ how are you so sure that germany will be supported right away?
Jun 23 16:46:08 <mazzen> nokia nxx simply doesnt have any sim-cards in it
Jun 23 16:46:10 <jasta> Don't assume that Android will be workable in any market not officially supported.
Jun 23 16:46:32 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: I've talked to the Germany ToMo guys
Jun 23 16:46:33 <spykid> T-Mobile? Germany?
Jun 23 16:46:46 <anno^da_> to the german :)
Jun 23 16:47:12 <jasta> Well honestly, whatever anno^da_ :)
Jun 23 16:47:16 <anno^da_> jasta: we will see but I can gurantee you that we will be able to buy HTC devices without a data plan
Jun 23 16:47:23 <jasta> If you'd like to assume what was not said will be, go right ahead.
Jun 23 16:47:28 <michaelnovakjr> i highly doubut
Jun 23 16:47:40 <michaelnovakjr> you'll be disappointed when it comes out then :)
Jun 23 16:47:52 <anno^da_> Haha yeah we will see ;)
Jun 23 16:48:17 <jasta> anno^da_: So, have you been following Android closely up until now? :)
Jun 23 16:48:35 <michaelnovakjr> obviously not as close as he thinks ;)
Jun 23 16:48:39 <jasta> You seem oddly optimistic hehe
Jun 23 16:48:49 <michaelnovakjr> google has already hit the world with an NDA
Jun 23 16:48:52 <anno^da_> Yeah I have. And at the moment it is open source the first guys will start porting the system to FIC devices ;)
Jun 23 16:48:58 <michaelnovakjr> what makes you think more stuff won't be locked down
Jun 23 16:49:24 <michaelnovakjr> open source... HA!
Jun 23 16:49:26 <jasta> anno^da_: Well, you do realize that only the platform itself will be opened?  So, no device drivers, radio interfaces, or even Google apps.
Jun 23 16:49:49 <michaelnovakjr> people use the term open source as often as i say shit
Jun 23 16:50:11 <michaelnovakjr> its basically as open source as Mac OS X is
Jun 23 16:50:21 <jasta> Although, oddly enough I am seeing a large amount of Qualcomm code going into the public GIT repository.  I wonder if that's in error.
Jun 23 16:50:24 <michaelnovakjr> maybe slightly more...
Jun 23 16:50:53 <jasta> Or rather, Google IP implementing Qualcomm devices.  Very strange.
Jun 23 16:51:34 <michaelnovakjr> gotta take everything with a grain of salt
Jun 23 16:51:45 <michaelnovakjr> well actually, a dump truck of salt
Jun 23 16:52:00 <trigatch4> that defeats the purpose of salt
Jun 23 16:52:10 <trigatch4> unless there is a snow storm
Jun 23 16:52:12 <trigatch4> then itd be good
Jun 23 16:52:16 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: We can bet that it will take not more than one month and the Android system will run on this device: no device drivers, radio interfaces, or even Google apps.
Jun 23 16:52:16 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr	people use the term open source as often as i say shit
Jun 23 16:52:28 <anno^da_> oh sorry pasted the wrong thing :D
Jun 23 16:52:32 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 16:52:39 <anno^da_> :)
Jun 23 16:52:51 <trigatch4> anno^da: what device we talkin about?
Jun 23 16:53:14 <anno^da_> the FIC Neo 1973 and the new Freeruner
Jun 23 16:53:30 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr and jasta: mind having a look at something for me? the unfinished, draft version of my android applications database/website?
Jun 23 16:53:51 <trigatch4> anno^da: link please
Jun 23 16:53:54 <anno^da_> http://www.openmoko.com/
Jun 23 16:54:01 <michaelnovakjr> sure
Jun 23 16:54:23 <jasta> trigatch4: sure?
Jun 23 16:54:53 <trigatch4> don't go broadcasting it yet... still got a lot of work to do... but hopefully will start getting developers set up with accounts for their apps later this week
Jun 23 16:55:06 <trigatch4> http://AndroidApplications.com
Jun 23 16:55:23 <jasta> anno^da_: your optimism is encouraging, but please do wait and see what this platform looks like really.  Google's been very careful with what they say, and that tells me we are in for some major surprises come launch time.
Jun 23 16:56:20 <anno^da_> jasta: the only chance they have is to open the system as much as they can. Why should I use a second or third closed platform as a developer.
Jun 23 16:56:34 <jasta> If you base your opinion only on the facts of what Google has said, then all you know is that Android will be a mobile platform that runs on phones coming out soon, and will contain platform source code.  Not that it will magically transform the industry, existing business models, etc.
Jun 23 16:56:59 <jasta> anno^da_: Well, they don't agree with you, obviously.  They are opening only the platform itself.  There is talk of maybe opening some Google apps as well, but I would be very surprised if they did that.
Jun 23 16:57:08 <trigatch4> actually, google people HAVE said the latter, jasta...
Jun 23 16:57:14 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4, looks good, i would just kill your queries at the bototm
Jun 23 16:57:16 <jasta> Fortunately, the dex file format is likely to be portable across devices, though.
Jun 23 16:57:18 <anno^da_> jasta: But you base youre opinion on the US market
Jun 23 16:57:25 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ no
Jun 23 16:57:31 <michaelnovakjr> there is no 'market'
Jun 23 16:57:32 <jasta> anno^da_: No, I don't.
Jun 23 16:57:34 <trigatch4> michaelnovakjr: yeah those are for my programmer friend who is still working on that stuff
Jun 23 16:57:51 <trigatch4> any immediate thoughts, suggestions?
Jun 23 16:57:53 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ android has said nothing about support for certain countries yet
Jun 23 16:58:35 <jasta> trigatch4: i assume you intend to put screenshots on the left?
Jun 23 16:58:54 <jasta> i'd also put a rating right there in the listing
Jun 23 16:59:04 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 16:59:13 <michaelnovakjr> maybe the download count too
Jun 23 16:59:17 <trigatch4> screen shots will be in the listing...
Jun 23 16:59:29 <trigatch4> the barcode thing there now will be an "icon" that each developer sets
Jun 23 16:59:30 <jasta> and i'd make sure to create a sort of meta main page which spotlights interesting apps blog-style
Jun 23 16:59:49 <trigatch4> since each app will most likely have an icon associated with
Jun 23 17:00:27 <trigatch4> download counts and ratings are in the works... but right now there is nothing to download hehe so the DL count would be 0
Jun 23 17:00:44 <michaelnovakjr> true
Jun 23 17:00:55 <trigatch4> i'm struggling with whether to make ratings by IP or you need an account to rate things... but for now there is no user account system so... we'll see
Jun 23 17:01:01 <michaelnovakjr> design is pretty cool
Jun 23 17:01:18 <trigatch4> thanks man :)
Jun 23 17:01:30 <jasta> trigatch4: just make the rating automatic based on page views, downloads, or some other heuristic
Jun 23 17:01:32 <trigatch4> do you like jasta's idea of a blogstyle home that features different apps and stuff?
Jun 23 17:01:47 <jasta> well, because think about how many apps there will be
Jun 23 17:01:50 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 17:01:52 <Dougie187> hey jasta, jason has said in the past the only thing that would not be open sourced are some hardware drivers.
Jun 23 17:01:56 <michaelnovakjr> it should be random though
Jun 23 17:01:57 <trigatch4> very true..
Jun 23 17:01:57 <jasta> users need some way to navigate all that, to find the ones that are interesting.
Jun 23 17:02:04 <Dougie187> at least from google.
Jun 23 17:02:28 <jasta> Dougie187: No, I was talking to Dan at I/O.  He said specifically that Google Apps were up in the air, likely not to be open.
Jun 23 17:02:38 <jasta> Meaning, the browser app, maps, contacts app, youtube, etc.
Jun 23 17:02:45 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4 i would make a spotlight application be different every time you load the page
Jun 23 17:02:59 <trigatch4> hmmmmm thats an interesting idea...
Jun 23 17:03:06 <Dougie187> Well, then we have a conflict from two google people. heh. because right before I/O Jason was on here, saying everything was going to be opensourced except some hardware drivers.
Jun 23 17:03:09 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: agreed, that seems best.
Jun 23 17:03:22 <jasta> Dougie187: Jason was also in this conversation.
Jun 23 17:03:26 <michaelnovakjr> gives every app an equal chance at being listed first
Jun 23 17:03:31 <michaelnovakjr> developers would like that idea :)
Jun 23 17:03:36 <Dougie187> well, maybe something changed then.
Jun 23 17:03:41 <jasta> Dougie187: Let's not forget, Jason *says* a lot of things ;)
Jun 23 17:03:45 <anno^da_> From my point of view we have to differ between the system itself, the hardware manufacturers (that can be different manufacturers than the OHA members) and the markets (that will be important not only because of differences in the networks and the activation stuff that you have in  the US but we don't have at all) .
Jun 23 17:03:45 <Dougie187> true.
Jun 23 17:03:55 <anno^da_>  I don't get the point why a german carriere should start closing down the system with activation. (without being forced by Apple) So I'd like to hear facts why the should do that.
Jun 23 17:03:55 <Dougie187> he did say we would get an announcement about a month ago now.
Jun 23 17:04:02 <Dougie187> and still he hasnt been in this room since.
Jun 23 17:04:11 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ there is nothing yet!
Jun 23 17:04:25 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ all we have is an outdated SDK!
Jun 23 17:04:35 <michaelnovakjr> everything else is complete speculation
Jun 23 17:04:46 <jasta> Dougie187: Yes he did, and that he would be happy to allay my concerns at I/O.
Jun 23 17:04:56 <Dougie187> and he didnt do that.
Jun 23 17:04:57 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 23 17:04:58 <jasta> But instead he made me want to punch him in the teeth.
Jun 23 17:05:00 <trigatch4> even the Weather Channel people are saying the new SDK will demand an overhaul of applications based on the last SDK
Jun 23 17:05:00 <michaelnovakjr> i remember that :)
Jun 23 17:05:26 <jasta> trigatch4: i think that is overstating what they said, but yes ;)
Jun 23 17:05:30 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: so why the pessimism ;)
Jun 23 17:05:31 <Dougie187> well, we shall see.
Jun 23 17:05:41 <anno^da_> I don't get that. :)
Jun 23 17:05:53 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ because all we have is an outdated SDK that is not even worth developing with at this point
Jun 23 17:05:58 <jasta> anno^da_: A lot of us feel that Google has been jerking us around of late.
Jun 23 17:05:58 <Dougie187> anno^da_: they are not being pessimistic, they are trying to be realistic.
Jun 23 17:05:59 <trigatch4> thanks for your input on the site, guys
Jun 23 17:06:01 <trigatch4> :)
Jun 23 17:06:02 <michaelnovakjr> its a load of crap
Jun 23 17:06:07 <michaelnovakjr> no problem trigatch4
Jun 23 17:06:42 <Dougie187> anno^da_: you don't know whats going to happen. noone does. there is just assumptions going on about how this whole things going to go down.
Jun 23 17:07:08 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187 he apparently talks to t mobile people that know stuff
Jun 23 17:07:19 <Dougie187> everyone talks to people.
Jun 23 17:07:23 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 23 17:07:24 <Dougie187> wsj talks to google people.
Jun 23 17:07:28 <Dougie187> and tmobile, and sprint.
Jun 23 17:07:32 <michaelnovakjr> haha, yes they do
Jun 23 17:07:40 <Dougie187> but they dont know anything.
Jun 23 17:07:50 <Dougie187> hell, they release news today that we knew over a month ago
Jun 23 17:07:55 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 23 17:08:05 <michaelnovakjr> news takes a while to get from Cali to NY
Jun 23 17:08:12 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:08:20 <michaelnovakjr> its gotta go through customs and all that good stuff
Jun 23 17:08:20 <Dougie187> muthu could have ran it faster with his break.
Jun 23 17:08:23 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:09:08 <Dougie187> is a german carrier even in the OHA?
Jun 23 17:10:41 <michaelnovakjr> what is the OHA? is that Outstanding Handset Assholes?
Jun 23 17:10:46 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:10:49 <Dougie187> no.
Jun 23 17:10:53 <michaelnovakjr> it certainly isn't anything about being open
Jun 23 17:10:55 <Dougie187> its Outstanding Handset Asshats.
Jun 23 17:10:59 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:11:02 <Dougie187> you have to use Jasta's nickname.
Jun 23 17:11:03 <spykid> Dougie187: T-Mobile
Jun 23 17:11:29 <Dougie187> but they have different phones for Europe and USA do they not?
Jun 23 17:11:45 <michaelnovakjr> so is Sprint, but they could be out of business by the time android is out :)
Jun 23 17:11:50 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:11:58 <Dougie187> not with the way WiMAX is looking.
Jun 23 17:12:47 <Dougie187> Do european Tmobile customers get free M-2-M calling to USA Tmobile customers?
Jun 23 17:13:09 <spykid> Dougie187: They had the Danger devices in Germany so I expect that they will have Android one's
Jun 23 17:13:19 <Dougie187> what is Danger?
Jun 23 17:13:36 <Dougie187> and they might not have android ones at launch.
Jun 23 17:13:46 <Dougie187> maybe android won't be out for Europe until Q4 09
Jun 23 17:13:47 <spykid> You claim to know anything about Android and you don't know Danger?
Jun 23 17:13:49 <Dougie187> or something like that.
Jun 23 17:13:57 <Dougie187> I didnt claim to know anything.
Jun 23 17:14:02 <spykid> Ok ;)
Jun 23 17:14:16 <michaelnovakjr> has google announced Danger?
Jun 23 17:15:00 <spykid> Danger is now part of MS, but the most important people found Android...
Jun 23 17:15:25 <Dougie187> lol what?
Jun 23 17:15:28 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:15:43 <Dougie187> im sorry, but the second half of that sentence doesnt make sense..
Jun 23 17:15:54 <michaelnovakjr> yea i agre
Jun 23 17:15:55 <michaelnovakjr> e
Jun 23 17:16:18 <Dougie187> but if Danger is part of MS then who cares about it?
Jun 23 17:16:22 <spykid> founded...
Jun 23 17:16:32 <Dougie187> should it be refered to as garbage if its in MS?
Jun 23 17:16:44 <Dougie187> who are the most important people?
Jun 23 17:16:52 <spykid> Andy Rubin, Rich Miner
Jun 23 17:16:59 <Dougie187> and they are from Danger?
Jun 23 17:17:02 <spykid> Yep
Jun 23 17:17:11 <Dougie187> ok.
Jun 23 17:17:18 <Dougie187> But does Danger matter anymore?
Jun 23 17:17:22 <michaelnovakjr> so then remind me again why it matters if you know about danger?
Jun 23 17:17:25 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:17:46 <Dougie187> Also, maybe when they were in danger they had more freedom with choices.
Jun 23 17:18:00 <Dougie187> they are associated with google now, so possibly they dont get to make all the shots.
Jun 23 17:18:18 <Dougie187> maybe google will say, F Eurpoe for a year.
Jun 23 17:18:23 <Dougie187> and you wont see any android handset love.
Jun 23 17:18:38 <Dougie187> but maybe they will say F USA for a year, and we wont see any android handset love.
Jun 23 17:18:57 <michaelnovakjr> haha, we are in america, but still.... screw you all!! haha!
Jun 23 17:19:02 <tethridge> I doubt they will say either of those
Jun 23 17:19:03 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:19:20 <Dougie187> tethridge: we doubted they would say "F Developers, delay public SDK for X months"
Jun 23 17:19:28 <Dougie187> but they said that.
Jun 23 17:19:37 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 23 17:19:52 <michaelnovakjr> and who would have thought there'd be a NDA in an open source project?
Jun 23 17:20:00 <Dougie187> lol, not me.
Jun 23 17:20:53 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:21:10 <Dougie187> well.
Jun 23 17:21:19 <Dougie187> i guess the discussion has ended.
Jun 23 17:21:32 <jasta> i started doing work :)
Jun 23 17:21:35 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:21:38 <Dougie187> good call
Jun 23 17:21:38 <michaelnovakjr> hah
Jun 23 17:21:42 <Dougie187> i might play some DOTA.
Jun 23 17:21:46 <michaelnovakjr> whats work?
Jun 23 17:21:52 <Dougie187> or Halo.
Jun 23 17:21:53 <Dougie187> or TF2.
Jun 23 17:21:53 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:21:59 <jasta> Dougie187: don't you have a job? :)
Jun 23 17:22:05 <Dougie187> Im a grad student.
Jun 23 17:22:06 <michaelnovakjr> yea what the hell
Jun 23 17:22:13 <Dougie187> i get paid to sit at home and play video games.
Jun 23 17:22:13 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:22:15 <michaelnovakjr> figures :)
Jun 23 17:22:21 <Dougie187> and go through FEM code.
Jun 23 17:22:24 <jasta> why do you get paid to be a grad student?
Jun 23 17:22:29 <Dougie187> but i have no timeline.
Jun 23 17:22:33 <michaelnovakjr> because he is not us jasta
Jun 23 17:22:46 <Dougie187> because, i have a research assistantship.
Jun 23 17:23:04 <Dougie187> and im in a science field.
Jun 23 17:23:04 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:23:15 <Dougie187> most science fields pay grad students.
Jun 23 17:23:16 <michaelnovakjr> so what do you do then?
Jun 23 17:23:23 <michaelnovakjr> what kind of research
Jun 23 17:23:28 <Dougie187> well, techinically, im working on my masters thesis.
Jun 23 17:23:34 <michaelnovakjr> which is...
Jun 23 17:23:40 <Dougie187> im doing Climate Modeling of the Denmark Strait.
Jun 23 17:23:48 <michaelnovakjr> are you going for a PhD after?
Jun 23 17:24:01 <Dougie187> Comparing FEM to FVM on a Y slice of the Denmark Strait to see which is more efficient/accurate.
Jun 23 17:24:02 <Dougie187> yes
Jun 23 17:24:18 <michaelnovakjr> what field is the degree in?
Jun 23 17:24:30 <Dougie187> Scientific Computing / Computational Science.
Jun 23 17:24:35 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 23 17:24:36 <jasta> bbl
Jun 23 17:24:51 <Dougie187> my bachelors is in Computational Physics.
Jun 23 17:25:01 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 23 17:25:03 <Dougie187> and im collaborating with people from USC and Los Alamos
Jun 23 17:25:13 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Jun 23 17:25:19 <michaelnovakjr> you should just go work for NASA
Jun 23 17:25:24 <Dougie187> that would be fun.
Jun 23 17:25:31 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i would do that in a heartbeat
Jun 23 17:25:33 <Dougie187> i actually have a relative who works there.
Jun 23 17:25:34 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:25:41 <Dougie187> my uncle's brother works there.
Jun 23 17:25:52 <michaelnovakjr> so your other uncle then?
Jun 23 17:25:53 <Dougie187> and he says if I want a job, to let him know and he will give me an interview or something.
Jun 23 17:26:01 <Dougie187> no, my aunt is my dad's sister.
Jun 23 17:26:08 <michaelnovakjr> ah
Jun 23 17:26:11 <michaelnovakjr> good point
Jun 23 17:26:13 <Dougie187> so uncle's brother is not really anything.
Jun 23 17:26:25 <michaelnovakjr> so you should get an interview, then you could get me one :)
Jun 23 17:26:31 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 23 17:26:37 <Dougie187> maybe after i finish my PhD
Jun 23 17:26:43 <Dougie187> i would like to get that done first.
Jun 23 17:26:48 <michaelnovakjr> good point
Jun 23 17:26:53 <Dougie187> but i probably have to do a Postdoc too
Jun 23 17:27:09 <Dougie187> and if i continue with this topic for my PhD Thesis then I will most likely do that at Los Alamos.
Jun 23 17:27:15 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Jun 23 17:27:29 <Dougie187> but thats 2 years, so then i can go do something else. Possibly NASA.
Jun 23 17:27:51 <Dougie187> i have about 4 years left until i get my PhD, and then 2 years for a PostDoc.
Jun 23 17:27:58 <Dougie187> so 6 years from now i can try to get a job at Nasa.
Jun 23 17:28:18 <Dougie187> If i still am in contact with you at that point we can see what we can do about jobs.
Jun 23 17:28:18 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:28:35 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:28:41 <michaelnovakjr> hell yea!
Jun 23 17:28:52 <Dougie187> what do you do now?
Jun 23 17:29:23 <trigatch4> he says "shit" a lot
Jun 23 17:29:31 <trigatch4> but other people say "open source" much more
Jun 23 17:29:34 <michaelnovakjr> developer for a video webcasting company
Jun 23 17:29:37 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:29:38 <trigatch4> that too
Jun 23 17:29:51 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Jun 23 17:29:54 <Dougie187> sounds like fun.
Jun 23 17:29:56 <michaelnovakjr> yea, its not bad
Jun 23 17:30:05 <michaelnovakjr> lots of java :)
Jun 23 17:30:17 <trigatch4> does your webcasting company do screencasting by chance?
Jun 23 17:30:27 <trigatch4> i've been looking for good screencasting software
Jun 23 17:30:29 <michaelnovakjr> screencasting...?
Jun 23 17:30:41 <michaelnovakjr> as in like screen sharing?
Jun 23 17:30:52 <trigatch4> screencasting: records what your computer screen is doing while recording your audio
Jun 23 17:31:02 <michaelnovakjr> that is what i thought you meant
Jun 23 17:31:04 <trigatch4> video from screen, audio from mic
Jun 23 17:31:12 <michaelnovakjr> i am currently writing an application that does that
Jun 23 17:31:16 <trigatch4> sweet
Jun 23 17:31:26 <trigatch4> i'll beta test for you :) hehe
Jun 23 17:31:28 <Dougie187> aren't there quite a few open source programs that do that pretty well?
Jun 23 17:31:37 <trigatch4> not sure, if so lemme know what they are!
Jun 23 17:31:43 <Dougie187> lemme look
Jun 23 17:31:44 <Dougie187> one sec
Jun 23 17:31:46 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187, do they do it in real time?
Jun 23 17:31:57 <Dougie187> not as far as i know.
Jun 23 17:32:03 <Dougie187> you record it and put it online.
Jun 23 17:32:06 <Dougie187> like on youtube or something
Jun 23 17:32:07 <michaelnovakjr> gtk-recordMyDesktop does it
Jun 23 17:32:15 <michaelnovakjr> video from screen and then audio
Jun 23 17:32:16 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 23 17:32:19 <michaelnovakjr> but not streaming
Jun 23 17:32:21 <Dougie187> thats what i was thinking.
Jun 23 17:32:24 <Dougie187> and theres like 2 other ones too
Jun 23 17:32:32 <michaelnovakjr> probably
Jun 23 17:32:39 <michaelnovakjr> gtk-recordMyDesktop comes with my distro
Jun 23 17:32:44 <Dougie187> true they don't do streaming.
Jun 23 17:32:46 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:32:58 <Dougie187> it didnt pick up my wacom.
Jun 23 17:33:53 <Dougie187> the other two are called Istanbul and Wink
Jun 23 17:33:59 <michaelnovakjr> ah Wink
Jun 23 17:34:03 <michaelnovakjr> i've heard of that one
Jun 23 17:34:50 <Dougie187> Istanbul can Screencast.
Jun 23 17:36:31 <Dougie187> Wink Can't
Jun 23 17:36:37 <Dougie187> at least from the way it looks.
Jun 23 17:36:53 <zhobbs_> lots of press about that wsj article about android being "delayed"
Jun 23 17:37:06 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:37:22 <Dougie187> we have been discussing that since about 8am.
Jun 23 17:37:39 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:38:02 <zhobbs_> and the verdict?
Jun 23 17:38:05 <Dougie187> hey zhobbs_ do you go to the Kennedy Space Center that much?
Jun 23 17:38:12 <Dougie187> zhobbs_: its garbage, and nothing new.
Jun 23 17:38:18 <Dougie187> its just stuff we knew already.
Jun 23 17:38:38 <zhobbs_> Dougie187: not really...I have a lot in the past though
Jun 23 17:38:46 <michaelnovakjr> its a cool place!
Jun 23 17:38:52 <Dougie187> yeah, i have been there once.
Jun 23 17:38:57 <Dougie187> and my wife wants to go.
Jun 23 17:39:06 <Dougie187> i just dont remember if its worth the trip.
Jun 23 17:39:09 <michaelnovakjr> i'm going next year
Jun 23 17:39:14 <zhobbs_> yeah, I've been there on lots of school fields trips
Jun 23 17:39:24 <Dougie187> heh i bet.
Jun 23 17:39:24 <zhobbs_> and every year for take your son to work day
Jun 23 17:39:37 <Dougie187> did your dad work there?
Jun 23 17:39:48 <zhobbs_> the take your son days are better than the visitor center
Jun 23 17:39:50 <zhobbs_> yeah
Jun 23 17:40:15 <michaelnovakjr> nice!
Jun 23 17:40:23 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Jun 23 17:40:27 <Dougie187> they have rides and stuff now right?
Jun 23 17:40:32 <zhobbs_> yeah, get to go out on the pads and stuff
Jun 23 17:40:46 <zhobbs_> well, the visitor center is just like a museum
Jun 23 17:40:48 <Dougie187> did you watch when we left earth?
Jun 23 17:40:56 <zhobbs_> yeah, that was awesome
Jun 23 17:40:59 <Dougie187> it was
Jun 23 17:41:03 <Dougie187> we have the last one recorded still.
Jun 23 17:41:06 <Dougie187> have to watch that one.
Jun 23 17:41:09 <Dougie187> but they were so freaking cool.
Jun 23 17:41:09 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:41:11 <zhobbs_> yeah, I haven't watched the last one
Jun 23 17:41:17 <zhobbs_> hah, great in HD too
Jun 23 17:41:28 <Dougie187> have you gone and ridden Mission Space in Disney yet?
Jun 23 17:41:38 <zhobbs_> no
Jun 23 17:41:41 <Dougie187> its cool.
Jun 23 17:41:50 <Dougie187> and Lieutenant Dan was the Narrator for that too
Jun 23 17:42:04 <zhobbs_> from forest gump?
Jun 23 17:42:06 * jasta downloaded all the when we left earth episodes last night
Jun 23 17:42:07 <Dougie187> i never remember his real name
Jun 23 17:42:08 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 23 17:42:16 <Dougie187> jasta: nice. not just watch them.
Jun 23 17:42:22 <Dougie187> they are awesome.
Jun 23 17:42:47 <jasta> i saw the first part last week, it was great
Jun 23 17:42:55 <zhobbs_> yeah, they were very well done
Jun 23 17:42:58 <zhobbs_> great film footage
Jun 23 17:43:05 <Dougie187> jasta: is it as good as Planet Earth?
Jun 23 17:43:15 <zhobbs_> different
Jun 23 17:43:28 <zhobbs_> planet earth is really well done also
Jun 23 17:43:38 <Dougie187> i havent seen it yet.
Jun 23 17:43:54 <Dougie187> i want to though
Jun 23 17:44:05 <Dougie187> i was going to download them, but i have to clear off some room on my comp.
Jun 23 17:44:09 <Dougie187> 26 gigs is quite a bit.
Jun 23 17:44:19 <zhobbs_> sports and documentaries like that make HD worth it
Jun 23 17:44:26 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 23 17:44:38 <Dougie187> it was just so cool to watch.
Jun 23 17:44:44 <tethridge> jasta, are they making the videos available or did you get them off bittorrent?
Jun 23 17:44:46 <Dougie187> i like how it went through almost all the missions.
Jun 23 17:45:00 <zhobbs_> and it was cool to see my area back in the 50's
Jun 23 17:45:02 <tethridge> I used to work at Kennedy Space Center
Jun 23 17:45:05 <tethridge> really old
Jun 23 17:45:05 <zhobbs_> was so different
Jun 23 17:45:16 <Dougie187> heh. i didnt know there were so many missions to the moon.
Jun 23 17:45:16 <tethridge> buildings suck
Jun 23 17:45:24 <jasta> tethridge: i got them off bittorrent
Jun 23 17:45:25 <zhobbs_> tethridge: yep
Jun 23 17:45:39 <Dougie187> its basically a documentary discounting the conspiracy theorists.
Jun 23 17:45:40 <jasta> i would like to get the original, though, but the DVD hasn't shipped yet
Jun 23 17:45:44 <jasta> so i have these crummy compressed versions
Jun 23 17:45:55 <Dougie187> i want to get them as well.
Jun 23 17:46:08 <michaelnovakjr> tethridge: what did you do there?
Jun 23 17:46:09 <jasta> Dougie187: as far as being better than Planet Earth, i'm not sure.  Planet Earth was really fantastic.
Jun 23 17:46:53 <zhobbs_> yeah, it's amazing the footage they get in planet earth
Jun 23 17:47:02 <tethridge> software dev for united space alliance
Jun 23 17:47:10 <tethridge> I just did an internship there
Jun 23 17:47:17 <zhobbs_> tethridge: ahh, I live a block from usa in cape canaveral
Jun 23 17:47:18 <tethridge> that was enough for me to know I didn't want to work there
Jun 23 17:47:23 <zhobbs_> yeah
Jun 23 17:47:35 <tethridge> the red tape was incredible
Jun 23 17:47:46 <tethridge> it was pretty cool seeing the space shuttle up close though
Jun 23 17:47:55 <zhobbs_> yeah, I'm glad I foudn a job in the private sector around here
Jun 23 17:48:00 <jasta> i get the sense from watching When We Left Earth that NASA, at least early on, was a pretty stuffy place to be.
Jun 23 17:48:02 <zhobbs_> the govt is a pain
Jun 23 17:48:36 <michaelnovakjr> stuffy?
Jun 23 17:48:49 <tethridge> my task was to help come up with a system to convert about 2000 cobol reports to the "new" client-server architecture
Jun 23 17:48:55 <tethridge> this was around 1999
Jun 23 17:48:59 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:49:11 <tethridge> even then, client-server wasn't new
Jun 23 17:49:12 <Dougie187> i hear if you learn cobol you are basically gaurenteed a job in gov't if you want it.
Jun 23 17:49:20 <Dougie187> especially if you know C or C++ or Java.
Jun 23 17:49:21 <tethridge> it sucked
Jun 23 17:49:43 <tethridge> I ended up coming up with a system that they actually used
Jun 23 17:50:03 <tethridge> pretty sad when an intern is giving you your innovative ideas
Jun 23 17:50:21 <tethridge> I'm not a rocket scientist.  :-)
Jun 23 17:50:36 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:50:47 <michaelnovakjr> ha
Jun 23 17:50:48 <michaelnovakjr> ha
Jun 23 17:50:59 <michaelnovakjr> i know cobol where do i sign up
Jun 23 17:51:18 <Dougie187> we did a problem in one of my undergrad physics classes, and it was about a space shuttle taking off, and the teacher prefaced it by saying "After you have done this, you will know how to be a rocket scientist"
Jun 23 17:51:36 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 17:51:50 <Dougie187> it was pretty easy too.
Jun 23 17:51:50 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:53:19 <zhobbs_> watching that show last night it was pretty amazing how primitive the first 2 programs were...
Jun 23 17:53:34 <zhobbs_> just sit on a big rocket and hope you land in the right place
Jun 23 17:53:56 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 17:53:57 <Dougie187> yup
Jun 23 17:54:33 <Dougie187> i think its funny when they have the people who did the mission talking durring a "scary" mission
Jun 23 17:54:41 <Dougie187> so you are like, oh, well they make it home safe.
Jun 23 17:55:24 <jasta> does anyone know how large the ISS is now?
Jun 23 17:55:44 <Dougie187> no
Jun 23 17:55:47 <Dougie187> Wikipedia time!
Jun 23 17:56:14 <Dougie187> `424.75 m³
Jun 23 17:56:19 <Dougie187> 15k ft^3
Jun 23 17:56:30 <Dougie187> thats living volume though
Jun 23 17:56:36 <jasta> it's the size of an american football field it says
Jun 23 17:57:29 <Dougie187> they have all their planned updates on here too
Jun 23 17:57:31 <Dougie187> its pretty cool
Jun 23 17:57:53 <jasta> the ISS is a cool deal, for sure.
Jun 23 17:58:12 <zhobbs_> that show seemed like it was timed to get people interested in space again for mars
Jun 23 17:58:39 <Dougie187> probably with they way their budget is going.
Jun 23 17:59:00 <f00f-> Dougie187: lots of big financials are still on COBOL
Jun 23 17:59:04 * jasta is such a space nerd :0
Jun 23 17:59:19 <jasta> i tell my gf, family, and co-workers about stuff happening all the time
Jun 23 17:59:30 <Dougie187> jasta: who isnt, its the final frontier
Jun 23 17:59:43 <Dougie187> f00f-: i hear if your able to convert them to something else you get a job easy.
Jun 23 18:00:13 <f00f-> that would be a kickass consulting gig for the next 3-5 years
Jun 23 18:00:20 <Dougie187> i love Nasa's pic of the day.
Jun 23 18:00:43 <Dougie187> i should bookmark that site.
Jun 23 18:00:48 <Dougie187> they always have the coolest pictures.
Jun 23 18:00:57 <f00f-> i dare you to do it
Jun 23 18:01:13 <Dougie187> omg, triple dog dare?
Jun 23 18:01:17 <jasta> it's very cool that we have an international project going too
Jun 23 18:01:28 <jasta> Dougie187: i have it on my iGoogle page
Jun 23 18:01:39 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 23 18:02:47 <Dougie187> i didnt know nasa wanted to go back to the moon
Jun 23 18:03:09 <Dougie187> man, i better get my carreer in gear.
Jun 23 18:03:16 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr and I need to have jobs before then.
Jun 23 18:03:57 <Dougie187> ok, this is cool
Jun 23 18:03:57 <Dougie187> http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/228177main_Red-Dwarf-Flare-Full_full.jpg
Jun 23 18:05:12 <Dougie187> and romainguy, its not from france.
Jun 23 18:08:26 <jasta> Dougie187: i've heard that NASA has long-term interest in permanent installations on the moon, one possible utility being a launch pad for other missions.
Jun 23 18:08:38 <jasta> given that launching from the surface of the Moon would require substantially less energy
Jun 23 18:09:19 <jasta> i wonder if there is any fossil foil on the moon *wink, wink*
Jun 23 18:09:20 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 23 18:09:30 <Dougie187> lol who knows.
Jun 23 18:09:41 <Dougie187> i think its cool that they brought back so many moon rocks.
Jun 23 18:09:54 <Dougie187> i wonder if they kept any of them
Jun 23 18:09:58 <jasta> i dont think there could be fossil fuels, i was just joking.
Jun 23 18:10:02 <Dougie187> i know
Jun 23 18:10:06 <jasta> also, why did i spell it foil a minute ago? :)
Jun 23 18:10:11 <Dougie187> yes
Jun 23 18:10:13 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 23 18:10:14 <Dougie187> who knows.
Jun 23 18:10:17 <Dougie187> either way.
Jun 23 18:10:25 <Dougie187> they did find bacteria there!
Jun 23 18:10:28 <Dougie187> so possibly?
Jun 23 18:10:37 <jasta> well, fossil fuels are hydrocarbons
Jun 23 18:10:44 <jasta> so... ;)
Jun 23 18:11:02 <Dougie187> also, there was a scientist a little while ago who found a bacteria that would convert sugar cane into easily processibly fossil fuels
Jun 23 18:11:09 <Dougie187> maybe they can live on the moon too.
Jun 23 18:11:13 <jasta> Dougie187: really?  where did you hear this?
Jun 23 18:11:21 <Dougie187> i read it somewhere.
Jun 23 18:11:29 <Dougie187> maybe engadget?
Jun 23 18:11:31 <Dougie187> i dont remember.
Jun 23 18:11:32 <jasta> i mean about bacteria on the moon
Jun 23 18:11:35 <jasta> i dont believe that ;)
Jun 23 18:11:41 <Dougie187> oh
Jun 23 18:11:49 <Dougie187> lol they said bacteria in the When We Left Earth thing.
Jun 23 18:11:54 <f00f-> ice on mars, what's next.
Jun 23 18:12:01 <Dougie187> on like one of the first two moon missions.
Jun 23 18:13:34 <Dougie187> lol, michaelnovakjr: check this out.
Jun 23 18:13:34 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/23/zomg-no-android-phones-till-q4-2008-right-on-schedule/
Jun 23 18:14:09 <f00f-> that is not a news story
Jun 23 18:14:23 <Dougie187> lol i know.
Jun 23 18:14:30 <Dougie187> but its what we have been saying all morning.
Jun 23 18:14:34 <Dougie187> i just thought it was funny
Jun 23 18:34:53 <zhobbs_> http://apcmag.com/interview_google_android_expert_dan_morrill_spills_all.htm
Jun 23 18:42:00 <f00f-> nothing new i bet
Jun 23 18:42:03 <f00f-> should i even read it?
Jun 23 18:43:05 <tethridge> nope
Jun 23 18:43:11 <tethridge> nothing new
Jun 23 18:43:50 <f00f-> k thx
Jun 23 18:48:50 <zhobbs_> hah
Jun 23 18:48:54 <zhobbs_> nothing new
Jun 23 18:51:32 <madhav> Hi...
Jun 23 18:51:45 <madhav> does anyone know how to profile..emulator
Jun 23 18:52:57 <f00f-> no, it's slow. that's all you need to know.
Jun 23 18:53:10 <f00f-> what kind of app are you developing madhav ?
Jun 23 18:53:40 <madhav> emulator..
Jun 23 18:53:56 <f00f-> what?
Jun 23 18:54:12 <madhav> application is a browser
Jun 23 18:54:36 <f00f-> okay
Jun 23 18:54:43 <madhav> i heard that its can be done using traceview..but didnt find the debug class
Jun 23 18:54:45 <madhav> api
Jun 23 18:55:03 <madhav> tried using valgrind...didnt work out well
Jun 23 18:55:21 <f00f-> madhav: i would wait around for jasta to come back
Jun 23 18:55:31 <f00f-> he's very much into debugging tools
Jun 23 18:55:57 <madhav> okay..
Jun 23 18:57:38 <madhav> foof: any idea when is android getting released..
Jun 23 18:58:24 <f00f-> madhav: around november time frame
Jun 23 18:58:34 <f00f-> at the earliest i think
Jun 23 18:59:05 <madhav> nice to hear that...
Jun 23 19:00:06 <jasta> back
Jun 23 19:00:16 <madhav> Hello,  jasta
Jun 23 19:00:19 <jasta> hi
Jun 23 19:00:42 <madhav> im trying to profile an application(browser) in emulator...
Jun 23 19:00:55 <madhav> can u tell me what are the best options...
Jun 23 19:01:14 <madhav> i tried valgrind..but didnt work out well
Jun 23 19:01:20 <jasta> you mean, the browser? or your application, using webview?
Jun 23 19:01:31 <madhav> just browser
Jun 23 19:02:15 <madhav> i want to profile the time it takes to load, with complete flow graph detailed with times..
Jun 23 19:02:19 <jasta> What exactly are you looking to find out?  Since it is a closed source application, you won't be able to make much sense of what you learn.
Jun 23 19:02:50 <madhav> i got all the debugging symbols..so i think that wont be proble..
Jun 23 19:03:14 <jasta> The traceview functionality in Android is what you're after, however again being closed source, you could not make use of it.
Jun 23 19:03:17 <madhav> i think traceview would do that..not sure how to prfile with it
Jun 23 19:03:34 <madhav> i have the source..
Jun 23 19:03:47 <madhav> appl is not closed..
Jun 23 19:03:56 <jasta> Well, yes it is.
Jun 23 19:04:04 <madhav> but i didnt find Debug API..
Jun 23 19:04:06 <jasta> But the engine is not.
Jun 23 19:04:29 <jasta> The engine, webkit, is written natively, and can of course be tested outside the boundaries of Android.  Therefore, traceview is not relevant.
Jun 23 19:04:38 <madhav> im using mozilla..,
Jun 23 19:04:41 <jasta> I thought you were referring instead to the browser app, as it performs within Android.
Jun 23 19:04:59 <jasta> madhav: But Android does not use Mozilla, so why does that matter?
Jun 23 19:05:24 <madhav> im using a application which can be runned on top of mozilla platform...
Jun 23 19:05:37 <jasta> Anyway, if you are interested only in profiling the webkit engine, you can do that any number of ways.  gprof, for example, would work.
Jun 23 19:05:58 <jasta> madhav: I don't follow you.
Jun 23 19:06:22 <madhav> about traceview..could u tell me how do i use it..
Jun 23 19:06:27 <jasta> Mozilla and Android aren't related, also, Mozilla isn't a platform.
Jun 23 19:06:45 <madhav> yes, ur right..
Jun 23 19:06:48 <jasta> madhav: you just invoke Debug.startMethodTracing("/tmp/foobar"); in Java source.  then stopMethodTracing where appropriate.
Jun 23 19:07:10 <jasta> But as I said, this would not profile the browser in Android.  WebView, perhaps, but not the browser.
Jun 23 19:07:20 <madhav> okay
Jun 23 19:07:22 <jasta> and what you keep asserting about Mozilla makes no sense to me.
Jun 23 19:08:01 <madhav> and another question..
Jun 23 19:08:34 <madhav> is there any way that i can profile SDL funcion calls..
Jun 23 19:09:37 <jasta> You cannot profile anything to which you do not have source.
Jun 23 19:10:01 <madhav> okay..
Jun 23 19:10:04 <jasta> also, the drawing toolkit is called SGL, not SDL.
Jun 23 19:10:19 <jasta> Profiling makes no sense without source code, do you understand that?
Jun 23 19:10:45 <madhav> yes, i got that
Jun 23 19:10:55 <jasta> And Android is not open source.
Jun 23 19:11:09 <madhav> yes, i know
Jun 23 19:11:16 <f00f-> it will be
Jun 23 19:14:04 <jasta> madhav: I guess I'm just confused by what ultimately you are trying to accomplish.
Jun 23 19:15:16 <madhav> jasta: any way, thanks for answering...
Jun 23 19:28:10 <spykid> Bloomberg: Google Says Android Phones Are On Schedule for 2008
Jun 23 19:28:21 <spykid> This is pure marketing :D
Jun 23 19:28:45 <spykid> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR9lQgliSTas&refer=home
Jun 23 19:29:33 <tethridge> it seems that google only responds when there is bad press out
Jun 23 19:30:18 <tethridge> maybe we should start spreading the "news" that the android project has been shutdown.  We could keep it up until they formally address our issues.
Jun 23 19:31:10 <f00f-> old news
Jun 23 19:31:17 <f00f-> olds
Jun 23 19:32:26 <anno^da_> Hmm bad press, the press says that they missed the track. But what what track is the press refering to ß
Jun 23 19:32:27 <anno^da_> ?
Jun 23 19:33:19 <anno^da_> Give me one press relase where they announced sth different than Q4 in the last weeks...
Jun 23 19:35:20 <f00f-> they ahvent
Jun 23 19:35:22 <f00f-> thats the point
Jun 23 19:35:32 <f00f-> the news coming out today is bullshit
Jun 23 19:35:46 <f00f-> they're trying to make it seem like it's being pushed back
Jun 23 19:35:56 <anno^da_> Thats what I wanted to say all the time
Jun 23 19:36:13 <anno^da_> so why "it seems that google only responds when there is bad press out"
Jun 23 19:36:35 <f00f-> on the defense, yeah it's natural with dot-com companies
Jun 23 19:37:53 <anno^da_> For sure it would be better to have more communication but give me one big company that has a good communication (good communication in the sense of the most open source projects :) )
Jun 23 19:38:49 <michaelnovakjr> i just spoke to my friend at google and he said android is getting shutdown
Jun 23 19:40:03 <michaelnovakjr> i knew it
Jun 23 19:40:13 <anno^da_> :)
Jun 23 19:40:21 <michaelnovakjr> why are you smiling
Jun 23 19:40:23 <michaelnovakjr> this sucks
Jun 23 19:40:45 <anno^da_> why am I smiling
Jun 23 19:40:56 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 23 19:40:56 <trigatch4> your friend at google haha
Jun 23 19:41:01 <trigatch4> you don't have any friends at google
Jun 23 19:41:03 <trigatch4> they all hate you
Jun 23 19:41:05 <anno^da_> I don't believe you at all trolling around :D
Jun 23 19:41:05 <trigatch4> ;)
Jun 23 19:41:21 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 19:41:40 <trigatch4> engadgetmobile posted an article saying everyone is retarded
Jun 23 19:41:43 <trigatch4> bless their souls
Jun 23 19:42:47 <tethridge> my co-worker was telling me about a blog where android was being merged with some other project and that was why it was delayed.
Jun 23 19:42:48 <trigatch4> ZOMG! No Android phones till Q4 2008... right on schedule!
Jun 23 19:42:52 <trigatch4> pretty funny ittle
Jun 23 19:42:59 <tethridge> he is supposed to send me the link
Jun 23 19:43:08 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4: when he sends it post it
Jun 23 19:43:09 <tethridge> I'm not sure of what he is talking about it
Jun 23 19:43:13 <michaelnovakjr> i won't hold my breath
Jun 23 19:43:23 <trigatch4> when he sends what?
Jun 23 19:43:42 <michaelnovakjr> ah
Jun 23 19:43:50 <michaelnovakjr> i meant tethridge
Jun 23 19:43:51 <getoo> i bought a Samsung Instict then i said Android should be out soon and i rather use android ... guess what i dont think sprint will release a phone with android
Jun 23 19:43:53 <getoo> this year
Jun 23 19:43:54 <getoo> :P
Jun 23 19:44:08 <getoo> i took back instict
Jun 23 19:44:10 <michaelnovakjr> wow, we need to change the topoc
Jun 23 19:44:12 <michaelnovakjr> topic
Jun 23 19:44:21 <michaelnovakjr> no speculation allowed!
Jun 23 19:44:36 <f00f-> TOPOC!
Jun 23 19:44:43 <michaelnovakjr> topoc
Jun 23 19:44:46 <michaelnovakjr> i invented it
Jun 23 19:45:36 <f00f-> good
Jun 23 19:45:37 <f00f-> food
Jun 23 19:45:42 <f00f-> bbiaf
Jun 23 19:46:02 <michaelnovakjr> sure
Jun 23 19:47:05 <tethridge> /topic  Google files for bankruptcy... ...Android project canceled!
Jun 23 19:49:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 19:49:10 <anno^da_> the talks here make me weird :D
Jun 23 19:49:19 <anno^da_> I have to go back to work :)
Jun 23 19:49:25 <michaelnovakjr> they only lost 22% of their stock value over a year
Jun 23 19:58:24 <jasta> yawn
Jun 23 20:00:56 <michaelnovakjr> what's up jasta
Jun 23 20:01:05 <anno^da_> I love the guys looking at the stocks all the time and I love the analysts like Gartner :)
Jun 23 20:01:36 <michaelnovakjr> i don't look at stocks all the time
Jun 23 20:02:04 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: not much, just working
Jun 23 20:02:11 <michaelnovakjr> same here
Jun 23 20:03:20 <michaelnovakjr> wow the linux kernel guys have some fighting words for nvidia
Jun 23 20:03:26 <michaelnovakjr> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2587
Jun 23 20:03:41 <michaelnovakjr> i don't get it, they should just be happy nvidia supports linux at all
Jun 23 20:11:26 <morrildl> Hmm
Jun 23 20:11:33 <morrildl> I should probably change the channel topic
Jun 23 20:11:38 <morrildl> Irish coffees are soooooooooooo two weeks ago
Jun 23 20:12:35 <trigatch4> word to that
Jun 23 20:12:40 <michaelnovakjr> look what the cat dragged in
Jun 23 20:12:43 <michaelnovakjr> howd
Jun 23 20:12:44 <michaelnovakjr> y
Jun 23 20:12:51 <morrildl> stupid international date line
Jun 23 20:12:59 <trigatch4> comments on this whole "android is delayed" BS?
Jun 23 20:13:12 <michaelnovakjr> comment: no comment
Jun 23 20:13:23 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4 is officially press, be careful around him :)
Jun 23 20:13:30 <trigatch4> haha, thats what i'm expecting but you can always hope
Jun 23 20:14:26 <michaelnovakjr> http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=606
Jun 23 20:14:29 <morrildl> Well, obviously I don't know who the WSJ's sources are since they typically never name them, but mine are the ones managing the actual product schedule :)
Jun 23 20:14:30 <michaelnovakjr> there you go trigatch4
Jun 23 20:14:47 <morrildl> And the last I heard, the ship date hasn't changed in months
Jun 23 20:14:51 <trigatch4> And what does your project schedule say, Dan?
Jun 23 20:15:05 <morrildl> Second half of 2008 :)
Jun 23 20:15:07 <trigatch4> For Android in general it hasn't.... always been 2nd half of 2008
Jun 23 20:15:31 <michaelnovakjr> wow
Jun 23 20:15:35 <trigatch4> Which is why this whole "android is delayed" thing is annoying and idiotic
Jun 23 20:15:38 <trigatch4> But...
Jun 23 20:15:50 <michaelnovakjr> :: trigatch4 can't take a hint ::
Jun 23 20:16:05 <trigatch4> Sprint delaying to ship with WiMax... any validity there?
Jun 23 20:16:16 <morrildl> trigatch4: you'd have to talk to Sprint
Jun 23 20:16:32 <trigatch4> I was hoping you could have already talked to them for me
Jun 23 20:16:37 <morrildl> Ultimately it's the partners (carriers & OEMs) that are launching devices, not Google
Jun 23 20:16:42 <morrildl> so these are their announcements to make
Jun 23 20:16:55 <trigatch4> Fair enough
Jun 23 20:17:24 <michaelnovakjr> dan, what about the sdk?
Jun 23 20:17:54 <trigatch4> jasta: wake up ;)
Jun 23 20:18:23 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr: not sure, I just got back into the office from Sydney, and am catching up on email and stuff
Jun 23 20:18:35 <morrildl> I knew it was a bad idea to log into IRC ;)
Jun 23 20:18:37 <morrildl> hehehehehe
Jun 23 20:18:41 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:19:00 <michaelnovakjr> its just a pain when you have to stop development completely
Jun 23 20:19:06 * morrildl agrees
Jun 23 20:19:25 <michaelnovakjr> i'm just looking forward to getting back to developing that's all :)
Jun 23 20:20:06 <trigatch4> why would it ever be a bad idea to log into IRC?
Jun 23 20:20:17 <morrildl> all this reminds me that I need to go find Andy Rubin
Jun 23 20:20:22 <morrildl> be back in a bit
Jun 23 20:20:35 <michaelnovakjr> :) enjoy
Jun 23 20:21:42 <jasta> trigatch4: ?
Jun 23 20:21:59 <trigatch4> morrildl graced us with his presence
Jun 23 20:22:07 <trigatch4> i was hoping to sit back and watch some fireworks
Jun 23 20:22:10 <trigatch4> hahah jk ;)
Jun 23 20:23:21 <jasta> is it special for morrildl to show up?
Jun 23 20:23:58 <michaelnovakjr> haha.
Jun 23 20:24:07 <trigatch4> so i've heard
Jun 23 20:24:26 <jasta> he hasn't been here for a while because he has nothing helpful to say, has anythign changed?
Jun 23 20:24:53 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, not at all
Jun 23 20:25:07 <jasta> trigatch4: well then, i'll happily go back to what i was doing :)
Jun 23 20:25:12 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:25:29 <trigatch4> hahahaaaha
Jun 23 20:25:34 <trigatch4> damnit
Jun 23 20:26:06 <trigatch4> how do you know he has nothing helpful to say?
Jun 23 20:26:29 <michaelnovakjr> because he would have said it
Jun 23 20:26:31 <jasta> don't you think he'd be excited to say it if he did?
Jun 23 20:27:12 <michaelnovakjr> people in here also only care whats going on so they can report on their blogs
Jun 23 20:27:19 <michaelnovakjr> well, not everyone
Jun 23 20:27:25 <michaelnovakjr> but they exist
Jun 23 20:27:48 <jasta> btw, while i'm feeling ranty...
Jun 23 20:28:02 <jasta> most of the android blogs out there and on planetandroid.com are terribly annoying.
Jun 23 20:28:11 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
Jun 23 20:28:21 <jasta> way too chatty, uninformative, and shallow.
Jun 23 20:28:28 <michaelnovakjr> which i am sure is why googlers avoid coming here
Jun 23 20:29:49 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: for some reason, i have little respect for software geeks who aren't software engineers ;)
Jun 23 20:30:29 <michaelnovakjr> it could be the lack of knowledge about the software :)
Jun 23 20:30:41 <jasta> and i think a lot of those blogs are run by fanboys for a product in its current form they don't even understand :)
Jun 23 20:30:52 <jasta> because they haven't even tried to dev for it, i mean.
Jun 23 20:30:52 <michaelnovakjr> of course
Jun 23 20:31:14 <michaelnovakjr> at this stage of the game what's the point of blogging about something you can't even use?
Jun 23 20:31:26 <jasta> silly too, because at present, Android's only keeping interest up because it actually is a fantastic platform to developer for.
Jun 23 20:31:31 <michaelnovakjr> unless of course it is developer related... tutorials or coding practices
Jun 23 20:31:53 <trigatch4> jasta: i hope phandroid isn't one of the "way too chatty, uninformative and shallow" ones
Jun 23 20:31:56 <trigatch4> ?
Jun 23 20:32:14 <michaelnovakjr> are you a developer?
Jun 23 20:32:19 <trigatch4> nope
Jun 23 20:32:50 <trigatch4> i'm a fanboy of a product that i don't understand in its current form
Jun 23 20:32:53 <trigatch4> jk
Jun 23 20:33:44 <michaelnovakjr> it reminds me of appleinsider
Jun 23 20:33:50 <trigatch4> the point in blogging about it is because EVERYbody is interested in it. its exciting.
Jun 23 20:33:55 <jasta> trigatch4: actually, androidguys was the one i was referring to
Jun 23 20:34:26 <trigatch4> why watch a movie if you can just skip to the end and see what happens
Jun 23 20:34:40 <trigatch4> jasta: i've had a flame war or two with those guys, they are pretty lame
Jun 23 20:34:45 <EA2009> anyone experienced with embedded linux type 123
Jun 23 20:34:48 <trigatch4> they don't report on just android
Jun 23 20:34:54 <trigatch4> they expanded to basically everything
Jun 23 20:35:02 <trigatch4> including things the avg android person doesnt care about
Jun 23 20:35:14 <michaelnovakjr> androidnerds.com will be the best site
Jun 23 20:35:26 <trigatch4> they did a samsung instinct "review"... sprint gave it to them a day early... WORST review ever
Jun 23 20:35:31 <michaelnovakjr> if you are a developer, or interested in the actual product
Jun 23 20:35:35 <trigatch4> 1 picture... and like, "i think its cool!:
Jun 23 20:35:59 <trigatch4> shutup michael, the thought of androidnerds makes me want to commit suicide
Jun 23 20:36:05 <trigatch4> hahaha i kid, i kid
Jun 23 20:36:35 <trigatch4> micahelnovakjr: which one reminds you of appleinsider and why?
Jun 23 20:36:44 <EA2009> Has anyone in here ever compiled their own kernel before?
Jun 23 20:37:05 <EA2009> I need help.....
Jun 23 20:37:37 <michaelnovakjr> EA2009, this isn't a linux kernel irc channel
Jun 23 20:37:45 <jasta> EA2009: Yes, but I believe I have already talked to you about this.
Jun 23 20:37:49 <trigatch4> *holds back urge to reference cell phones popping popcorn viral video*
Jun 23 20:38:42 <EA2009> ah...jasta, my brother.....lol
Jun 23 20:39:09 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4: phandroid.com reminds me of appleinsider
Jun 23 20:39:23 <michaelnovakjr> its more news/rumors about android than a blog
Jun 23 20:39:43 <trigatch4> so... is that a good thing or bad thing?
Jun 23 20:39:47 <jasta> EA2009: IIRC, I attempted to convince you that if your familiarity with GNU, C, and Linux are not even to the level of compiling a kernel for your native machine, then you are much too far off from ever getting Android ported to existing hardware without simply copying someone else's work and instructions.
Jun 23 20:40:20 <jasta> So you should instead take a step down from your goal of focusing on Android or embedded Linux and just learn Linux first.  And C.
Jun 23 20:40:33 <michaelnovakjr> ??
Jun 23 20:40:44 <jasta> he's a tard, don't mind him.
Jun 23 20:40:45 <michaelnovakjr> he's trying to port a kernel without knowing linux or c?
Jun 23 20:41:06 <trigatch4> tell him to use a microwave, much easier than popping kernels by hand
Jun 23 20:41:41 <trigatch4> jasta... he calls you "my brother" and you call him "a tard" hahahahah
Jun 23 20:41:43 <trigatch4> priceless
Jun 23 20:42:06 <jasta> if you haven't already noticed, i have very limited patience.
Jun 23 20:42:21 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4, androidnerds.com ... forever!
Jun 23 20:42:23 <jasta> at least, i do when i'm not getting paid :)
Jun 23 20:42:31 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:42:34 <michaelnovakjr> don't we all
Jun 23 20:42:38 <jasta> or getting sex.
Jun 23 20:42:43 <jasta> I guess basically I just have very limited patience on IRC :)
Jun 23 20:42:58 <trigatch4> unless you get sex on IRC
Jun 23 20:43:03 <trigatch4> in which case you'd be an androidnerd
Jun 23 20:43:05 <michaelnovakjr> uh what?
Jun 23 20:43:10 <trigatch4> like mnovak
Jun 23 20:43:26 <trigatch4> hahaha ah man
Jun 23 20:45:03 <trigatch4> apologies, my attempts to amuse myself are working, but it seems I'm the only one amused :)
Jun 23 20:45:14 <michaelnovakjr> haha, i am confused
Jun 23 20:45:39 <anno^da_> How old are you guys?
Jun 23 20:46:02 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_ are you a developer
Jun 23 20:46:04 <anno^da_> It's a mess to read that childish stuff all the time :)
Jun 23 20:46:23 <michaelnovakjr> are you a developer?
Jun 23 20:46:30 <anno^da_> not really now
Jun 23 20:46:33 <anno^da_> no
Jun 23 20:46:35 <anno^da_> -w
Jun 23 20:46:42 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean by not really?
Jun 23 20:46:57 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, we should have an android dev channel on IRC
Jun 23 20:46:57 <anno^da_> I'm just interested in that stuff ;)
Jun 23 20:47:05 <jasta> nah, i tried that once.  bad idea.
Jun 23 20:47:20 <michaelnovakjr> what was wrong with it
Jun 23 20:47:38 <jasta> it just doesn't work unless you have a sufficiently large community
Jun 23 20:47:50 <michaelnovakjr> true, but it cuts out all the crap
Jun 23 20:48:02 <jasta> which we don't here in #android.  There are like 8 regulars, 6 of which are devs.  What good would it do? :)
Jun 23 20:48:17 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: Maybe, I dunno about you but I haven't talked about development in here for quite a while.
Jun 23 20:48:19 <cutmasta> by all
Jun 23 20:48:23 <anno^da_> And if I would be I wouldn't develope with you guys. I don't like that elitist thing
Jun 23 20:48:27 <michaelnovakjr> me either
Jun 23 20:48:32 <trigatch4> uhoh, looks like i'm getting kicked out
Jun 23 20:48:38 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, without the new sdk there isn't anything to talk aobut
Jun 23 20:48:54 <jasta> Yeah.  We're just uncomfortably lurking.
Jun 23 20:49:00 <michaelnovakjr> pretty much
Jun 23 20:49:10 <jasta> Honestly, I'm just really bored hehe
Jun 23 20:49:18 <michaelnovakjr> me too
Jun 23 20:49:24 <jasta> I started working through the 3rd volume of TAOCP, even ;)
Jun 23 20:49:25 <michaelnovakjr> i want to get back to programming
Jun 23 20:49:27 <jasta> to give you a sense of my boredom
Jun 23 20:49:30 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:49:37 <trigatch4> i need to make some damn money
Jun 23 20:51:02 <jasta> anno^da_: you don't know many programmers, do you? :)
Jun 23 20:51:06 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:51:14 <michaelnovakjr> that's an obvious one
Jun 23 20:51:33 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, was it you that posted the IT crowd link last week?
Jun 23 20:51:47 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: I dunno?
Jun 23 20:51:58 <michaelnovakjr> guess not
Jun 23 20:52:00 <jasta> I don't know what the IT crowd is though, so probably not.
Jun 23 20:52:16 <michaelnovakjr> its a pretty funny show from england
Jun 23 20:52:25 <romainguy__> -funny
Jun 23 20:52:27 <romainguy__> :p
Jun 23 20:52:28 <michaelnovakjr> nbc is picking it up this fall in the states
Jun 23 20:52:47 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: That does not compute.
Jun 23 20:52:58 <jasta> "Funny" and "From England" can't agree.
Jun 23 20:53:01 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:53:11 <michaelnovakjr> not a fan of british television?
Jun 23 20:53:18 <trigatch4> I love "The Office" American version...
Jun 23 20:53:18 <jasta> So you must mean dry and boring.
Jun 23 20:53:23 <trigatch4> I heard the British version was hilarious
Jun 23 20:53:23 <jasta> Well, not British comedy, no.
Jun 23 20:53:34 <jasta> trigatch4: I've watched the British version and it's not.  I mean, it's OK.
Jun 23 20:53:41 <trigatch4> I watched 1 episode and midway through thought about hanging myself
Jun 23 20:53:43 <jasta> But it's also just as awkward and terrible as it is funny, s.
Jun 23 20:53:44 <jasta> so*
Jun 23 20:53:48 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, i'll give you that .... it is certainly dry
Jun 23 20:53:51 <michaelnovakjr> but funny
Jun 23 20:53:53 <trigatch4> its just dumb
Jun 23 20:54:02 <michaelnovakjr> and the IT Crowd I found funnier than the british office
Jun 23 20:54:26 <michaelnovakjr> extras is quite good though
Jun 23 20:54:28 <jasta> It's just well known internationally that English humor is bad.  English food is bad too.
Jun 23 20:54:37 <michaelnovakjr> haha English food
Jun 23 20:54:42 <trigatch4> English women too so I hear
Jun 23 20:54:42 <michaelnovakjr> now that's a good one
Jun 23 20:54:44 <trigatch4> :)
Jun 23 20:54:53 <jasta> Yeah, basically England is the worst.
Jun 23 20:54:53 <anno^da_> jasta: I do know some even in the linux world but they are much more friendly (ah bad english :) ) than you are. Ok it could be irony but irony all the time can be very exhausting.
Jun 23 20:54:54 <jasta> ;)
Jun 23 20:55:04 <trigatch4> They should do an American version of IT Crowd then, no?
Jun 23 20:55:13 <michaelnovakjr> trigatch4:
Jun 23 20:55:17 <michaelnovakjr> read above
Jun 23 20:55:20 <michaelnovakjr> nbc is this fall
Jun 23 20:55:27 <f00f-> US Office >>>> UK Office
Jun 23 20:55:42 <trigatch4> oops, gotchya
Jun 23 20:55:48 <trigatch4> f00f yes you are correct
Jun 23 20:55:53 <michaelnovakjr> anno^da_, its hard to be nice when all people do is speculate
Jun 23 20:56:19 <michaelnovakjr> this channel was more about programming when the sdk wasn't officially from the stone age
Jun 23 20:56:27 * f00f- feels obliged to read scrollback to see what's being discussed
Jun 23 20:56:41 <f00f-> should i bother?
Jun 23 20:56:42 <michaelnovakjr> f00f-: as usual, nothing of importance
Jun 23 20:56:49 <michaelnovakjr> rambling at best
Jun 23 20:56:50 <f00f-> k, thx m8
Jun 23 20:56:52 <trigatch4> and then i came and polluted it with my offtopic BS and everyone wants to kick me off Survivor Season 27
Jun 23 20:57:04 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 23 20:57:35 <jasta> f00f-: Oh yeah, this channel is drivel :)
Jun 23 20:57:38 <michaelnovakjr> all i have to say is that whoever came up with the NDA idea must not have heard of branching
Jun 23 20:58:09 <jasta> actually, that's what i had to say ;)
Jun 23 20:58:12 <f00f-> brne regA, regB, label
Jun 23 20:58:38 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, do you like git?
Jun 23 20:58:57 <jasta> actually, i'm quite unfamiliar with git.  i feel like i should be embarrassed by that :)
Jun 23 20:59:03 <michaelnovakjr> na
Jun 23 20:59:09 <michaelnovakjr> its not all that popular
Jun 23 20:59:23 <michaelnovakjr> i have started using it a bit
Jun 23 20:59:30 <f00f-> epic fail jasta at not knowing major open source tool
Jun 23 20:59:42 <michaelnovakjr> i wouldn't call it major
Jun 23 20:59:45 <michaelnovakjr> yet
Jun 23 20:59:54 <f00f-> i guess within OSS community?
Jun 23 20:59:56 <michaelnovakjr> the linux kernel uses it
Jun 23 21:00:05 <michaelnovakjr> google apparently uses it
Jun 23 21:00:09 <f00f-> i'm using SVN for my project
Jun 23 21:00:11 <michaelnovakjr> probably not all of google
Jun 23 21:00:17 <f00f-> changeset concept is all that's missing from CVS imho
Jun 23 21:00:21 <michaelnovakjr> freebsd finally went to SVN
Jun 23 21:00:26 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: Yeah I can understand that. At the moment you can not specualte at all untill there is sth. new from Google or the OHA. Soooo I will not speculate either. Just for you. :-)
Jun 23 21:00:40 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 23 21:00:50 <michaelnovakjr> freebsd up until recently was still using cvs
Jun 23 21:01:41 <michaelnovakjr> i have both an svn server and git server, i've used svn far more, but git seemed interesting
Jun 23 21:01:55 <f00f-> but is no more?
Jun 23 21:02:13 <michaelnovakjr> there's a torvalds talk on git posted on youtube
Jun 23 21:02:26 <romainguy__> mercurial is interesting too
Jun 23 21:02:28 <michaelnovakjr> basically opens the talk up by bashing cvs and svn
Jun 23 21:02:29 <romainguy__> similar to git
Jun 23 21:02:32 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 23 21:02:59 <michaelnovakjr> i've played with mercurial too
Jun 23 21:03:22 <michaelnovakjr> they are both considered distributed systems
Jun 23 21:03:35 <f00f-> well
Jun 23 21:03:39 <f00f-> dude
Jun 23 21:03:43 <f00f-> bitkeeper did all that years ago
Jun 23 21:03:47 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 23 21:03:58 <michaelnovakjr> that is actually where the git idea came from
Jun 23 21:04:04 <jasta> i really only know cvs and svn.
Jun 23 21:04:11 <jasta> i am sufficiently happy with svn not to explore alternatives.
Jun 23 21:04:25 <f00f-> codeville seems cool too but they're lagging
Jun 23 21:04:29 <jasta> though i have not worked in a massive commercial source tree in quite a while
Jun 23 21:04:48 <michaelnovakjr> i have noticed that git holds up better with larger projects
Jun 23 21:05:02 <f00f-> define large
Jun 23 21:05:35 <trigatch4> jasta: AndroidGuys have 3 articles today and their titles are 1) Slowing Android Down (announcing the delays), 2) Delay: First Android Handsets End of 2008, and 3) For The Last Time, There Is No Delay
Jun 23 21:05:44 <trigatch4> haha that what you mean?
Jun 23 21:05:48 <f00f-> heh
Jun 23 21:05:53 <michaelnovakjr> absolutely yes
Jun 23 21:06:06 <michaelnovakjr> f00f-: large code base and large contributor base
Jun 23 21:06:15 <f00f-> funny
Jun 23 21:06:19 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 23 21:08:58 <f00f-> well we had a CVS server here with 13 GB of shit and about 100-150 active users
Jun 23 21:08:59 <michaelnovakjr> f00f-: what's funny?
Jun 23 21:09:03 <f00f-> it gets unwieldy after a while
Jun 23 21:09:16 <michaelnovakjr> svn is an 'improved' cvs
Jun 23 21:09:31 <michaelnovakjr> they are still conceptually the same, just without the cvs shit
Jun 23 21:09:40 <f00f-> changesets are a big thing
Jun 23 21:09:44 <f00f-> when things need to be rolled back
Jun 23 21:09:55 <f00f-> which may be often when build breaks
Jun 23 21:10:04 <michaelnovakjr> sure, that is a big part of version control :)
Jun 23 21:10:17 <f00f-> i dont think cvs supports it very nicely :)
Jun 23 21:10:29 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Jun 23 21:10:44 <jasta> cvs supports that concept, but cvs' big problem is that nothing was very convenient :)
Jun 23 21:10:45 <michaelnovakjr> i hate cvs
Jun 23 21:10:58 <michaelnovakjr> subversion i like
Jun 23 21:11:04 <michaelnovakjr> even git isn't bad
Jun 23 21:11:16 <trigatch4> alright devs, i'll leave you to your suprior conversation and delight you with my exit
Jun 23 21:11:29 <trigatch4> enjoy the rest of the day guys
Jun 23 21:11:33 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 23 21:13:42 <michaelnovakjr> the torvalds talk on git is interesting... any one interested ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
Jun 23 21:15:54 <tethridge> personally, I have fallen in love with bazaar
Jun 23 21:16:03 <tethridge> mysql just started using it
Jun 23 21:16:18 <tethridge> for me, I wanted something feature rich that was easy to administer
Jun 23 21:16:49 <tethridge> in about 5 commands you can put a project under source control and configure it to automatically backup the branch each time you commit to a box running ssh
Jun 23 21:17:25 <Beryllium> I use Subversion currently, it's less clunky than CVS ... but that's not saying a whole lot
Jun 23 21:17:31 <michaelnovakjr> backups are easy
Jun 23 21:17:41 <michaelnovakjr> you can set that up via a hook
Jun 23 21:18:09 <tethridge> yeah, but svn isn't as easy to admin as bazaar for small projects
Jun 23 21:18:16 <tethridge> let me get you the link
Jun 23 21:18:47 <Beryllium> *shrug* I use SVN for small projects at home
Jun 23 21:19:04 <Beryllium> TortoiseSVN simplifies it a whole bunch, as does Subclipse.
Jun 23 21:19:09 <jasta> i use SVN as well.
Jun 23 21:19:16 <jasta> i run a lcoal server in my home network
Jun 23 21:19:17 <michaelnovakjr> i wouldn't say tortoise helps
Jun 23 21:19:20 <michaelnovakjr> svn is so easy
Jun 23 21:19:26 <michaelnovakjr> even command line is simple
Jun 23 21:19:33 <michaelnovakjr> and creating projects takes no time at all
Jun 23 21:19:42 <f00f-> it does
Jun 23 21:19:43 <michaelnovakjr> you can write hooks in any scripting language you want
Jun 23 21:19:44 <jasta> for most of my development on Five, i used my lcaol server.
Jun 23 21:19:46 <tethridge> http://www.emcken.dk/weblog/archives/200-Bazaar-bzr-howto-Creating-your-own-branch.html
Jun 23 21:19:48 <f00f-> i use subclipse exclusively
Jun 23 21:20:03 <michaelnovakjr> yea jasta, i have a git/svn server at home running Trac with it
Jun 23 21:20:08 <jasta> i hated subclipse ;)
Jun 23 21:20:10 <michaelnovakjr> Trac is awesome
Jun 23 21:20:37 <f00f-> it's just like cvsplugin
Jun 23 21:20:50 <jasta> i just didn't like how it was integrated into Eclipse.
Jun 23 21:21:05 <jasta> i typically wound up doing everything in a terminal, even whilst developing the source in Eclipse
Jun 23 21:21:28 <jasta> i actually don't like the preview stuff either.  i really just prefer a colored unidiff output ;)
Jun 23 21:21:39 <jasta> it's easier to quickly answer the question "ok, what did i do here?"
Jun 23 21:21:54 <tethridge> I'm not saying subversion is hard, I'm just saying bazaar is easier
Jun 23 21:22:15 <tethridge> it has a lot of features that fix issues in cvs/svn
Jun 23 21:22:19 <f00f-> agree, color is lacking
Jun 23 21:22:38 <Beryllium> I do my merges/diffs in WinMerge
Jun 23 21:22:41 <jasta> f00f-: I mean I just run svndiff | vim - usually :)
Jun 23 21:22:44 <jasta> err svn diff
Jun 23 21:22:59 <tethridge> don't take my word for it, just read through the user guide, it's well written.  This assumes you care.  :-)
Jun 23 21:24:58 <michaelnovakjr> anyone using git or svn should check out trac for a web based system for management
Jun 23 21:25:05 <michaelnovakjr> when you release its a bug tracker and all
Jun 23 21:25:12 <michaelnovakjr> cool stuff for public projects
Jun 23 21:25:15 <tethridge> add baazar to that list, it has support for trac
Jun 23 21:25:27 <tethridge> trac is a really nice app
Jun 23 21:26:08 <tethridge> michaelnovakjr, did you skim that link I sent?
Jun 23 21:26:54 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 23 21:26:56 <michaelnovakjr> one sec
Jun 23 21:47:09 <f00f-> i wish trac supported cvs
Jun 23 21:47:16 <f00f-> cvstrac is lame
Jun 23 21:47:22 <f00f-> i tried to use it with aforementioned 13 GB CVS repo
Jun 23 21:47:24 <f00f-> and it failed
Jun 23 21:51:45 <michaelnovakjr> CVS sucks
Jun 23 21:52:08 <thesnark> You mean CVS rocks?
Jun 23 21:52:20 <f00f-> rox
Jun 23 21:53:21 <michaelnovakjr> what?
Jun 23 21:53:31 <michaelnovakjr> why would you use cvs when you can use svn
Jun 23 21:53:47 <thesnark> CVS is so intuitive and logical
Jun 23 21:54:10 <tethridge> michaelnovakjr, thoughts?  :-)
Jun 23 21:54:17 <michaelnovakjr> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8
Jun 23 21:54:20 <michaelnovakjr> watch that :)
Jun 23 21:54:21 <morrildl> thesnark: what was that, some snark?  Are you snarking on CVS?
Jun 23 21:54:27 <michaelnovakjr> i am
Jun 23 21:54:33 <morrildl> thesnark: I never would have imagined
Jun 23 21:54:34 <michaelnovakjr> i am not a cvs fan
Jun 23 21:54:44 <tethridge> is it SFW?
Jun 23 21:55:01 <f00f-> this chan is supposedly 100% sfw
Jun 23 21:55:22 <michaelnovakjr> sfw?
Jun 23 21:55:26 <tethridge> safe for work
Jun 23 21:55:35 <michaelnovakjr> why wouldn't it be?
Jun 23 21:55:37 <tethridge> as opposed to NSFW
Jun 23 21:58:29 <thesnark> morrildl why, never! :)
Jun 23 22:12:15 <f00f-> morrildl: you gotta chill more in here
Jun 23 22:12:21 <f00f-> you guys can't be too busy over there
Jun 23 22:12:48 <michaelnovakjr> na, they are only changing the way the mobile industry works
Jun 23 22:13:01 <michaelnovakjr> that can't be too hard
Jun 23 22:17:56 <morrildl> actually I've just been in Sydney
Jun 23 22:18:16 <morrildl> Jason Chen was in China & Tokyo
Jun 23 22:18:29 <morrildl> before that was Google I/O
Jun 23 22:24:03 <f00f-> cool
Jun 23 22:24:19 <f00f-> well now that you're back, hopefully morale around here improves
Jun 23 22:26:27 <tethridge> morrildl, any official comment on the demise of the android project?
Jun 23 22:27:23 <morrildl> tethridge: What are you looking for?  "Rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated"?
Jun 23 22:27:35 <tethridge> that's a start.  :-)
Jun 23 22:27:44 <tethridge> now the demise of the latest sdk?
Jun 23 22:28:20 <morrildl> Heh, can there be a demise when there isn't yet a latest SDK? :P
Jun 23 22:29:52 <tethridge> it died on the way to the release
Jun 23 22:30:05 <f00f-> it was murdered
Jun 23 22:30:32 <morrildl> I still have no information on the next SDK drop :(
Jun 23 22:32:10 <tethridge> morrildl, I would just appreciate an honest update on the android blog.  Do you think you get somebody to do that?
Jun 23 22:32:42 <tethridge> no sdk, fine, I'm sure there are legit reasons.  I just hate being put out in the dark and ignored
Jun 23 22:33:14 <f00f-> yeah bro, just post a quick 50-100 words to the blog
Jun 23 22:33:48 <tethridge> for what it's worth, I am serious
Jun 23 22:37:42 <jasta> lol, now slashdot picked up the drivel from today
Jun 23 22:46:35 <jasta> of all the bad press Android deserves, this is not it ;)
Jun 23 22:47:00 <tethridge> slashdot notes that google disagrees with the article
Jun 23 22:54:15 <jasta> man, i'm getting really close to a working example of libsyncml on the client-side, but there are just so many frustrating gotchas in this library :(
Jun 23 22:54:29 <jasta> after i get this working it should only be a week or two to a working proof-of-concept Rhythmbox plugin
Jun 23 23:11:10 <duey> lol delayed
Jun 23 23:49:00 <gambler> just grepped thru ch histor
Jun 23 23:49:18 <gambler> history. is IT Crowd supposed to be worth watching or not
Jun 23 23:54:21 <jerkface03> pretty unfunny
Jun 23 23:54:31 <jerkface03> like all british comedy shows
Jun 23 23:54:35 <jerkface03> except for mr.bean
Jun 23 23:54:38 <jerkface03> who's super funny
Jun 23 23:55:06 <f00f-> ;p
Jun 23 23:57:45 <umdk1d4> sigh stuck in denvar airport
Jun 23 23:58:55 <f00f-> what's going down there?
Jun 23 23:59:15 <umdk1d4> well im suposta be going to san jmose
Jun 23 23:59:23 <umdk1d4> *jose
Jun 23 23:59:30 <f00f-> oh
Jun 23 23:59:34 <f00f-> coming here?
Jun 23 23:59:36 <f00f-> what for?
Jun 23 23:59:42 <umdk1d4> job interview
Jun 23 23:59:52 <f00f-> coming from where?
Jun 24 00:00:13 <umdk1d4> darnit my whois gives me away
Jun 24 00:00:32 <f00f-> it does?
Jun 24 00:00:41 <umdk1d4> lol yea montana
Jun 24 00:00:50 <f00f-> if you say so :)
Jun 24 00:01:22 <f00f-> so what app did you do?
Jun 24 00:01:34 <umdk1d4> gahhhh lol
Jun 24 00:01:41 <f00f-> man i am so bad with names
Jun 24 00:01:51 <umdk1d4> trying to keep irc nick and irl name apart
Jun 24 00:02:10 <umdk1d4> i think we met in dalvik sessn
Jun 24 00:02:15 <umdk1d4> i nwas in brown stiped shirt
Jun 24 00:02:18 <f00f-> "if you carry a double-oh number it means license to kill, not get killed"
Jun 24 00:02:25 <f00f-> tall guy
Jun 24 00:02:29 <umdk1d4> yea
Jun 24 00:02:30 <f00f-> right
Jun 24 00:02:32 <f00f-> hahahah
Jun 24 00:02:33 <umdk1d4> thatsme lol
Jun 24 00:02:36 <f00f-> i should have written down your name
Jun 24 00:02:42 <umdk1d4> :P
Jun 24 00:02:51 <umdk1d4> idk that i  ever told you
Jun 24 00:03:07 <f00f-> i could grep the logs, but not important right now
Jun 24 00:03:11 <f00f-> so what is the interview for? android stuff?
Jun 24 00:03:17 <umdk1d4> kinda
Jun 24 00:03:28 <umdk1d4> its android related  ;)
Jun 24 00:03:44 <umdk1d4> well actually yea it is for android
Jun 24 00:04:04 <umdk1d4> inter viewing with one of teh OHA membarz
Jun 24 00:04:17 <umdk1d4> ^.^
Jun 24 00:04:57 <f00f-> nice
Jun 24 00:04:58 <f00f-> grats
Jun 24 00:05:14 <f00f-> probably nvidia
Jun 24 00:05:22 <umdk1d4> hopefully i actually make itt there at a decent hour
Jun 24 00:05:33 <f00f-> indeed
Jun 24 00:05:41 <f00f-> interview must be tomorrow then
Jun 24 00:05:54 <umdk1d4> yea
Jun 24 00:06:40 <umdk1d4> yay almost at front of hourlong line
Jun 24 00:06:40 <umdk1d4> bbl
Jun 24 00:06:48 <f00f-> man i'm having such a hard time picturing an android dev from montana
Jun 24 00:06:55 <f00f-> just the reality of it
Jun 24 00:07:04 <f00f-> good luck
Jun 24 00:07:05 <umdk1d4> im not from there originally
Jun 24 00:07:08 <umdk1d4> kthx
Jun 24 00:20:39 <trigatch4> sucks for you guys...
Jun 24 01:06:59 <jasta> umdk1d4: hi :)
Jun 24 02:16:36 <jasta> you guys want a mind bender?
Jun 24 02:16:38 <jasta> http://www.kloonigames.com/crayon/
Jun 24 02:18:01 <duey> fun gamethat
Jun 24 02:39:49 <raidfive> sweet, android delays
Jun 24 02:40:16 <raidfive> why am I not surprised?
Jun 24 02:43:24 <duey> like who didn't see that coming :)
Jun 24 02:44:29 <duey> although: http://googlewatch.eweek.com/content/hello_android/journal_weaves_fud_web_for_google_android.html
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 24 02:59:56 2008