**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 24 02:59:56 2008 Jun 24 03:38:32 man is android a mistake?! Jun 24 03:41:10 no it is not Jun 24 03:41:20 but that kloonigames crayon game is SWEET! Jun 24 03:43:51 how long before this is over Jun 24 03:44:06 it looks bad right now, i know its an OS and it will take long. Jun 24 03:44:13 but most manuf. are ahead big time Jun 24 03:56:59 ?? Jun 24 03:57:10 what looks bad? Jun 24 03:57:17 there isnt even a phone out Jun 24 03:57:18 so Jun 24 03:57:20 ... Jun 24 03:57:51 and why do you compare android to manufacturers? Jun 24 04:34:46 i meant other OS manuf. Jun 24 04:34:54 sorry, will wait patiently :) Jun 24 04:35:54 yeah you better, or else you'll get the backhand. Jun 24 04:36:03 so much misinformation about android, it's not even funny., Jun 24 04:36:21 some people think it's a phone Jun 24 04:36:26 other think it's an OEM Jun 24 04:36:34 and then some others think it's an API Jun 24 04:36:48 some even think it's an application that'll run anywhere Jun 24 04:38:33 i know a Google employee who think sthat. Jun 24 05:20:43 what exactly is everyone hububbing/being disgruntled about right now? despite watching the conversation for a day or so I still haven't really understood what the problem is. SDK release is being pushed back or something? Jun 24 06:20:27 yakischloba: the news that you heard today is just drivel, reported on by folks who did not read any of the initial news coming out of Google. Jun 24 06:20:37 but we are still hubbubing about past evils ;) Jun 24 06:21:06 hah. are they resolved, or is the project heading in a less-than-savory direction? Jun 24 06:21:16 well, long term i think we're fine. Jun 24 06:21:24 read the latest entry on my blog to be filled in, devtcg.org Jun 24 06:21:54 thx Jun 24 06:27:16 yakischloba: this bit of "news" was discored over in mid May, however has not been reported on anywhere major to date. Jun 24 06:27:45 Instead, the news sites picked up this fake drivel that Android is being delayed. Google's initial committed release date was "2nd half of 2008", and they have simply clarified that date as 4th quarter, 2008. Jun 24 06:27:57 oh. nonsense. Jun 24 06:28:01 Some nitwits interpreted that as a delay. Jun 24 06:28:43 But, there is still genuine unrest in the community at large over the lame NDA issue, and lack of public releases. Jun 24 06:29:05 Also, the claims in a lot of the news sites say that developers are frustrated by the unstable SDK. Bollocks. To date, we've only had two major releases: M3 was first, M5 came after, with API and UI changes. Jun 24 06:29:19 So if by "all the changes", they meant the 1, then I guess :) Jun 24 06:29:46 Most devs are upset because they aren't being given the opportunity to have an unstable SDK :) Jun 24 06:30:19 Instead we quietly wait on the sidelines for a release that actually lets us get back to work again. Jun 24 06:30:34 Gotta go Jun 24 06:30:35 later Jun 24 06:36:47 Thanks. cya. Jun 24 10:01:37 hello Jun 24 12:39:03 Good Morning. Jun 24 12:39:11 ohh a new topic? Jun 24 13:12:08 hm, did they release an sdk at a developer day? Jun 24 13:12:18 lol Jun 24 13:12:20 yeah right. Jun 24 13:12:29 so then i guess no one went? Jun 24 13:13:23 i dont know anyone who went. Jun 24 13:13:45 yea, me either Jun 24 13:14:16 i dont even know where they were. Jun 24 13:14:35 same here :) Jun 24 13:16:15 i'm excited that i have my linux dual booted on mc Jun 24 13:16:16 mac Jun 24 13:16:35 heh Jun 24 13:16:37 through boot camp? Jun 24 13:16:46 yea Jun 24 13:16:51 thats cool Jun 24 13:17:34 it uses a modified EFI loader Jun 24 13:17:48 the linux distro itself worked out of the box Jun 24 13:17:52 no configuration needed Jun 24 13:18:22 thats really cool Jun 24 13:21:09 i'm liking it Jun 24 13:21:24 especially since i use linux for a lot of stuff Jun 24 13:21:32 and vmware just wasn't cutting it Jun 24 13:22:23 true. Jun 24 13:22:39 if my laptop had a better graphics card, i wouldnt need to switch to windows ever. Jun 24 13:22:52 what graphics card do you have? Jun 24 13:22:58 intel 85225 Jun 24 13:23:00 or something like that Jun 24 13:23:09 good ol' integrated crap Jun 24 13:23:12 (its a laptop) Jun 24 13:23:20 haa Jun 24 13:23:24 on my desktop i have an ATI X900 Jun 24 13:23:26 lol Jun 24 13:23:30 my ibm uses ati Jun 24 13:23:47 x900 is very old too Jun 24 13:23:47 lol Jun 24 13:23:51 completely out-dated. Jun 24 13:24:03 they are up to like x1950 or something now. Jun 24 13:24:17 what kind of processor is in it? Jun 24 13:24:23 desktop or laptop? Jun 24 13:24:43 laptop Jun 24 13:24:49 Pentium M 2.0 ghz Jun 24 13:25:04 i have that in my ibm Jun 24 13:25:08 i have a t30 Jun 24 13:25:11 nice Jun 24 13:25:17 t30 is old though, isnt it? Jun 24 13:25:19 yea Jun 24 13:25:22 like 3 years? Jun 24 13:25:23 out-dated :) Jun 24 13:25:24 heh Jun 24 13:25:27 this is 3 years old. Jun 24 13:25:48 1 gig of ram Jun 24 13:25:49 it runs windows just fine, which is all it has to do now :_ Jun 24 13:25:56 yea i put 1 gig in mine too Jun 24 13:25:59 its a tablet. Jun 24 13:26:02 dvd burner. Jun 24 13:26:18 all that jazz Jun 24 13:26:24 but i just need a better video card Jun 24 13:26:28 if it had that, i would be set. Jun 24 13:26:35 i dont really need the tablet anymore though Jun 24 13:26:44 i here that Jun 24 13:26:50 i used it in my undergrad a ton Jun 24 13:26:52 graphics card is important Jun 24 13:26:59 but now, i dont use it that much Jun 24 13:27:14 all my classes have programming assignments, and i can just take notes in a composition notebook. Jun 24 13:27:35 yea Jun 24 13:27:43 and make new friends at the same time Jun 24 13:27:55 then my composition notebook is my SN and my Notes Jun 24 13:28:04 hha Jun 24 13:28:57 either way, i want to get a thinkpad at some point. Jun 24 13:29:35 thinkpads are nice Jun 24 13:29:45 i like the xps 13.3 inch laptop Jun 24 13:29:50 i'd like to get one of those Jun 24 13:29:57 i was going to get one of those. Jun 24 13:29:59 like the M1330? Jun 24 13:30:51 yea Jun 24 13:31:20 i thought it was really cool, but the keyboard feels weird, and i read some reviews saying it misses keystrokes about 1/40 of the time. Jun 24 13:31:32 so it skips 1 out of 40 keys. Jun 24 13:31:49 hm Jun 24 13:32:05 they had one at my sams club, and i couldn't get use to typing in the 30 seconds i was standing there, but thats not saying much Jun 24 13:32:06 lol Jun 24 13:32:32 haha Jun 24 13:32:54 i found you get more for your money with the thinkpads too, but it all depends on what your looking for Jun 24 13:32:58 you dont get the hdmi out on the thinkpad Jun 24 13:33:16 true Jun 24 13:34:03 but i didnt even know if the hdmi would work in linux. Jun 24 13:34:28 not sure Jun 24 13:34:35 haven't tried it Jun 24 13:35:08 dell offers redhad and novell now. Jun 24 13:35:39 and ubuntu Jun 24 13:35:57 yeah i knew ubuntu Jun 24 13:36:00 i didnt know the other two Jun 24 13:36:12 they have been supporting ubuntu for like 2 years now Jun 24 13:36:15 yea Jun 24 13:36:26 lol, they arn't shipping with hardy though Jun 24 13:36:29 its still gutsy Jun 24 13:36:41 thats annoying Jun 24 13:36:55 one thing you might look at too Jun 24 13:37:01 is price the one with windows to see if its cheaper. Jun 24 13:37:17 also, you can get the nvs card with that Jun 24 13:37:52 why would the windows one be cheaper? Jun 24 13:38:11 it was when they came out. Jun 24 13:38:23 the m**30 series at least Jun 24 13:38:26 weird Jun 24 13:38:26 1530 and 1330 Jun 24 13:38:27 yeah Jun 24 13:38:31 i was like what? thats retarded. Jun 24 13:38:37 you don't have to pay for a dumb windows license Jun 24 13:38:41 i know Jun 24 13:38:49 but you are paying for the "dvd capabilities" Jun 24 13:39:08 so someone doesnt have to do "sudo apt-get install libcss" Jun 24 13:39:09 lol Jun 24 13:39:12 or what ever it is Jun 24 13:39:41 haha Jun 24 13:42:41 well, i think its time for me to switch to windows and play some video games. Jun 24 13:42:42 lol Jun 24 13:42:43 brb Jun 24 13:49:04 wow... you guys see the news today? Jun 24 13:49:10 not android... but effects android Jun 24 13:49:21 http://www.symbianfoundation.org/ Jun 24 13:50:48 a new mobile platform? Jun 24 13:50:58 it costs 1500 Jun 24 13:50:59 screw it Jun 24 13:51:14 no, thats for members to join the foundation Jun 24 13:51:23 for like corporations. Jun 24 13:51:28 like all the people at the bottom Jun 24 13:51:51 i see Jun 24 13:52:05 it doesn't give dev specifics though Jun 24 13:52:07 thats why they say low annual fee. Jun 24 13:52:15 no, but look at the members. Jun 24 13:52:19 a lot are in the OHA Jun 24 13:52:30 not carriers Jun 24 13:52:35 Tmobile Jun 24 13:52:43 ah there's tmobile Jun 24 13:52:50 the only two carriers they have afaik are ATT and Tmobile Jun 24 13:52:53 logo is two light Jun 24 13:53:01 they have Vodaphone too Jun 24 13:53:01 too Jun 24 13:53:09 brb Jun 24 13:53:09 orange Jun 24 13:53:17 how insane is that? Jun 24 13:53:27 they don't have anything yet Jun 24 13:53:35 iPhone, Android, Limo, Symbian Jun 24 13:53:37 no dev resources Jun 24 13:53:40 a whole bunch of "me too" Jun 24 13:53:49 yeah they are a LONG way away Jun 24 13:53:56 but its very interesting news Jun 24 13:54:16 i'll believe it when i see it Jun 24 13:54:25 that's early to make an announcement Jun 24 13:56:03 coffee time Jun 24 14:03:20 well there is a press conference today Jun 24 14:03:36 you can watch live... i'll dig up the link if you want it... Jun 24 14:06:20 who's conference? Jun 24 14:24:55 Who was doubting that Android comes to Germany? Jun 24 14:25:11 spykid, why do you ask? Jun 24 14:25:15 i am from germany Jun 24 14:25:19 but id never doubt Jun 24 14:25:29 Yesterday someon doubted it ;) Jun 24 14:25:31 ah Jun 24 14:25:33 ok Jun 24 14:25:34 no one doubted Jun 24 14:25:48 why should it not come to germany? Jun 24 14:25:50 just said that it isn't certain that it will be among the first Jun 24 14:25:57 perhaps Jun 24 14:26:01 but thats normal Jun 24 14:26:01 google hasn't announced anything Jun 24 14:26:07 with new technics Jun 24 14:26:16 for all we know the whole world will be supported from day one Jun 24 14:26:43 unlikely, but there is no comment from Google on the matter Jun 24 14:27:17 Google said that the partners will announce it when they are ready Jun 24 14:27:27 http://www.xonio.com/news/T-Mobile-Android-Handy-kommt-nach-Plan_32049727.html Jun 24 14:27:36 Now learn german... Jun 24 14:27:58 Google's SDK is going to have the international support not carriers Jun 24 14:28:11 that wouldn't make sense Jun 24 14:28:13 T-Mobile Germany, Q4 2008 Jun 24 14:28:39 are you programming for android Jun 24 14:29:04 I've looked at it and will be doing more in the future Jun 24 14:29:23 are you a programmer? Jun 24 14:29:31 I think so Jun 24 14:29:44 ? Jun 24 14:30:08 yes Jun 24 14:30:56 what have you written so far for android? Jun 24 14:31:41 Only small things, because of the sdk issue ;) Jun 24 14:32:14 what do you mean? what sdk issue? Jun 24 14:32:47 That they didn't release a newer one.. - but I was expecting this Jun 24 14:33:00 did you enter the ADC? Jun 24 14:33:03 No Jun 24 14:33:23 not interested? Jun 24 14:33:50 No idea what to do... Jun 24 14:34:07 No good Jun 24 14:34:09 idea Jun 24 14:34:28 oh boy, if you only knew some of the ideas that were submitted Jun 24 14:34:42 i'm sure anything would have done fine Jun 24 14:34:54 i'm not even maintaining mine anymore Jun 24 14:35:24 But you still believe in it otherwise you would be here... ;) Jun 24 14:35:30 +not Jun 24 14:35:41 yea Jun 24 14:36:03 Just a little bit disapointed and perhaps you had too high expectations Jun 24 14:36:38 not really, just want a new sdk Jun 24 14:36:53 i like the platform Jun 24 14:36:55 * spykid too Jun 24 14:38:48 I'm amused about all this Nokia/Symbian news today: this could be a good idea or maybe a really bad one - I believe it's a bad idea for Nokia :D Jun 24 14:39:44 it might be good Jun 24 14:40:02 can't speculate yet because they haven't released any development resources yet Jun 24 14:40:34 If those members stand by it yes, but if SE says: "Good bye and thanks for all the fish" Jun 24 14:41:10 ? Jun 24 14:41:18 its open source Jun 24 14:41:27 no need for those members Jun 24 14:41:37 they don't control the fate Jun 24 14:41:51 the community could develop drivers and software that would be great for the platform Jun 24 14:42:18 No, but Sony Ericsonn owns a part of Symbian at the moment and Nokia buys this part and afterwards... Jun 24 14:42:22 what nokia news? Jun 24 14:42:24 link? Jun 24 14:42:49 www.symbianfoundation.org Jun 24 14:43:17 http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/008/06/paris_and_beibei_cancelled.htm Jun 24 14:53:17 this will compete head-on with android Jun 24 14:53:52 how do we know? Jun 24 14:53:59 look at the members Jun 24 14:54:02 they haven't said a thing about it yet Jun 24 14:54:02 and look at their "goal" Jun 24 14:54:20 what is the dev platform like? how open source is it? Jun 24 14:54:36 that's like saying msn search is a real competitor to Google Jun 24 14:54:41 With this in mind, industry leaders are coming together to establish Symbian Foundation, to bring to life a shared vision and to create the most proven, open and complete mobile software platform - available for free. Jun 24 14:54:49 thats a quote Jun 24 14:54:59 i believe google said the same thing Jun 24 14:55:04 my point exactly Jun 24 14:55:15 but google is not completely open source Jun 24 14:55:35 i think its a bit premature Jun 24 14:55:43 um Jun 24 14:55:45 premature? Jun 24 14:55:54 symbian has 40% of the freakin smartphone market Jun 24 14:55:55 when they release development specs then the picture will be clear Jun 24 14:56:07 they aren't all of a sudden going to crash and burn by opening it up Jun 24 14:56:18 yes, but what does open sourcing it mean Jun 24 14:56:22 look at java Jun 24 14:56:32 that is a good example of moving to open source Jun 24 14:56:39 its not eas Jun 24 14:56:39 y Jun 24 14:56:51 it sure isn't Jun 24 14:57:06 but if you ask me, this is a direct response to iphone, android, etc... Jun 24 14:57:12 they realize where the market is heading Jun 24 14:57:29 iphone isn't in the same category Jun 24 14:57:31 and understand if they don't adjust, and try to copy this concept, they'll be left in the dust Jun 24 14:57:37 iphone is as closed as you can get Jun 24 14:57:44 well... Jun 24 14:57:44 without taking the phones away from people Jun 24 14:58:06 conceptually speaking Jun 24 14:58:12 with 3rd parties able to develop for it Jun 24 14:58:21 haha, they always have been able to Jun 24 14:58:33 i wrote a mobile app like 5 years ago :) Jun 24 14:58:43 it wasn't the same but the idea has been there Jun 24 14:59:06 shift in thinking though Jun 24 14:59:34 apples third party support is terrible at best Jun 24 15:00:17 everyone touts these great concepts and visions and yet none have materialized yet Jun 24 15:00:56 the iphone could, but their paranoid senses are just overshadowing the quality Jun 24 15:01:41 basically its all speculation until people get phones in their hands and we see if it takes Jun 24 15:01:56 until then we should be writing the apps that are on the phones otherwise no one will care! Jun 24 15:21:31 So now i bugged T-Mobile Germany a little bit :D Jun 24 15:25:13 ... Jun 24 15:25:31 what did they say? Jun 24 15:25:51 da, don't know Jun 24 15:25:52 :) Jun 24 15:27:07 Dougie187: I've bugged them only about some preorder page. in the article I mentioned before they said Q4 if you haven't read it ;) Jun 24 15:28:51 wtf is magenta flag? Jun 24 15:29:09 Magenta is the color they think they own :D Jun 24 15:29:34 i dont get it. Jun 24 15:30:25 does Magenta Flag insinuate Germany? Jun 24 15:30:49 Nope, go http://www.t-mobile.com/ Jun 24 15:31:02 ok? Jun 24 15:31:16 where is this flag. Jun 24 15:31:47 In front of their buildings... Jun 24 15:32:02 ok. Jun 24 15:32:07 so Magenta Flag = Tmobile. Jun 24 15:32:22 Yes, all their shops, everything Magenta Jun 24 15:32:36 wow Jun 24 15:32:37 I guess I think you mis-understood our discussion yesterday. But in addition to that, i dont see anything here that says it will for sure be brought to germany by the end of the year. Jun 24 15:32:50 all i have to say is wow Jun 24 15:32:57 i mean all it says is this "T-Mobile Germany explained to us now, however, that the market launch of the first Android phones under magenta flag as planned for the fourth quarter of 2008. " Jun 24 15:33:21 It just says Tmobile will be releasing an android phone Q4 08, not where it will be. Jun 24 15:33:32 haha Jun 24 15:33:45 thats kinda what we were trying to say yesterday. Jun 24 15:33:53 we dont know where they are releasing these things. Jun 24 15:34:00 T-Mobile Germany doesn't speak for T-Mobile USA Jun 24 15:34:13 but Magenta Flag doesnt imply tmobile germany. Jun 24 15:34:17 correct? Jun 24 15:34:29 Yes but they asked T-Mobile germany Jun 24 15:34:43 lol. Jun 24 15:34:48 ok. Jun 24 15:35:01 Also remember, we weren't doubting that they would release a phone in germany. Jun 24 15:35:17 haha Jun 24 15:35:28 first, the discussion was with anno^da telling them that it might not be as easy to get an android phone as they thought it was. Jun 24 15:35:28 You were doubting Q4 and Germany Jun 24 15:35:31 t-mobile released iphone only in germany not in america Jun 24 15:35:33 No we werent. Jun 24 15:35:37 don't forget that :) Jun 24 15:36:09 spykid: we were simply saying, there is a rather large lack of knowledge on our part (and yours) and its hard to speculate anything at this point, since all of our speculations have been wrong up to here. Jun 24 15:36:13 Yep and T-Mobile USA and T-Mobile Germany now said Q4 Jun 24 15:36:26 do you have a link to both? Jun 24 15:36:42 I have just heard T-Mobile said Q4. Jun 24 15:36:49 yea Jun 24 15:36:51 not in what countries it would be dropped. Jun 24 15:37:13 hell, i dont even know if it will be in the US. Jun 24 15:37:13 exactly Jun 24 15:37:16 maybe the US launch of android won't be until 2010. Jun 24 15:37:34 we dont know anything, its not like we are trying to squash your dreams of getting an android phone. Jun 24 15:37:54 we are just trying to bring a bit of realism to the conversation. Jun 24 15:38:00 :) Jun 24 15:38:02 especially with everything google has done to us so far. Jun 24 15:38:10 we learned to be realistic here the hard way Jun 24 15:38:33 When T-Mobile Germany says Q4 it will be out Q4 in Germany... Jun 24 15:38:37 Android will launch in America first, I would assume Jun 24 15:38:40 in situations regarding android, its probably best to be overly pessimistic, and then be suprised then it is to be overly optimistic. Jun 24 15:38:52 trigatch4: but we dont know, thats all we are saying. Jun 24 15:39:02 that is true Jun 24 15:39:09 spykid: how does tmobile even know android will be released by Q4? Jun 24 15:39:15 google might delay it more. Jun 24 15:39:16 exactly Jun 24 15:39:37 Its not out yet, ADC1 is still going, the SDK still requires an NDA. Jun 24 15:39:46 dougie187: to "delay it more" they would have had to "delay it some" already, which they haven't ;) Jun 24 15:39:53 lol Jun 24 15:39:57 depends what site you read. Jun 24 15:40:01 phandroid Jun 24 15:40:02 obviously Jun 24 15:40:04 haha Jun 24 15:40:08 but they have pushed back dates already. Jun 24 15:40:10 androidnerds.com Jun 24 15:40:13 ADC1 dates first off. Jun 24 15:40:24 android hasnt pushed back any dates as far as the release of the OS Jun 24 15:40:34 what carriers DO with the OS is a completely different story Jun 24 15:40:38 they pushed back the original submission dates, and the submission dates for round 2 submission Jun 24 15:40:57 the carriers are obviously going to brand the OS and put their own shitty software on the phone Jun 24 15:41:03 so they need time to do that Jun 24 15:41:05 and they say that android won't be out until the ADC1 is over. Jun 24 15:41:18 ADC1 is over by August Jun 24 15:41:18 michaelnovakjr: and try to lock it down. Jun 24 15:41:24 yes, Jun 24 15:41:30 but then ADC2 has to start when they get handsets out. Jun 24 15:41:34 and we dont know when that is. Jun 24 15:41:44 yes Jun 24 15:41:47 google is floating past august. Jun 24 15:42:09 the only point we were trying to make yesterday was that we dont know anything. Jun 24 15:42:24 exactly Jun 24 15:42:24 i agree that you don't know anything Jun 24 15:42:27 hehe :) Jun 24 15:42:30 i really hate speculating Jun 24 15:42:31 lol Jun 24 15:42:42 thats what round 1 was.. Jun 24 15:42:42 lol Jun 24 15:42:45 that should be the new channel subject Jun 24 15:42:54 Dougie187> the only point we were trying to make yesterday was that we dont know anything. Jun 24 15:43:03 taken out of context, that is a beauty Jun 24 15:43:17 thanks. Jun 24 15:43:58 lol, i guess spykid gave up. Jun 24 15:44:02 Dougie187: T-Mobile is an OHA member, why should they know when they can/will release someting? Jun 24 15:44:05 NM. Jun 24 15:44:27 spykid: we dont even have a solid date for when android is coming out. Jun 24 15:44:34 we know android is comign out 2nd half of 08 Jun 24 15:44:42 maybe that is going to end up being November 30th Jun 24 15:44:43 yawn Jun 24 15:44:46 why does it matter Jun 24 15:44:49 Dougie187: why should you have one before the OHA members? Jun 24 15:44:52 my god this is getting annoying Jun 24 15:45:00 lol Jun 24 15:45:03 i dont get your question. Jun 24 15:45:33 good morning jasta Jun 24 15:45:44 welcome to speculation, round 342 Jun 24 15:45:51 ding Jun 24 15:46:11 yea, my god it doesn't stop Jun 24 15:46:39 i dont feel like arguing anymore. ok spykid, germany will have an android phone by december. Jun 24 15:47:55 hows work going michaelnovakjr? Jun 24 15:48:11 not bad Jun 24 15:48:14 nice Jun 24 15:48:19 glad to hear it. Jun 24 15:48:24 actually germany will have one next wee Jun 24 15:48:25 k Jun 24 15:48:32 but enough of that ;) Jun 24 15:48:49 Dougie187 how's video games going? Jun 24 15:49:06 lol Jun 24 15:49:18 pretty good. Jun 24 15:49:23 i owned some kids at dota earlier. Jun 24 15:49:31 haha Jun 24 15:49:34 got lanaya going. Jun 24 15:49:39 i was hitting for over 700 damage. Jun 24 15:49:41 it was sweet Jun 24 15:50:07 jasta: you playing tonight? Jun 24 15:50:27 jasta is gearing up for the german release :) Jun 24 15:50:27 yeah, probably Jun 24 15:50:39 lol Jun 24 15:50:48 nice. Jun 24 15:51:27 you play any awesome games yet michaelnovakjr? Jun 24 15:51:48 i was playing euro2008 Jun 24 15:51:57 wtf is that? Jun 24 15:53:07 its a soccer game Jun 24 15:53:20 centered around the european cup Jun 24 15:53:37 i forgive you that you don't know what it is Jun 24 15:53:45 you're american... its not expected :) Jun 24 15:54:09 lol Jun 24 15:54:11 ok Jun 24 15:54:13 good Jun 24 15:54:48 haha Jun 24 15:56:22 you play any pc games? Jun 24 15:56:34 battlefield Jun 24 15:56:41 battlefield...? Jun 24 15:56:46 theres like 20 out. Jun 24 15:56:46 lol Jun 24 15:56:49 1942 Jun 24 15:56:58 ohh you like the old school Jun 24 15:57:06 good ol orignal Jun 24 15:57:07 by the way.... jsp and tomcat can go jump off a damn bridge Jun 24 15:57:26 ok Jun 24 15:57:31 ill let them know later today when i hang out with them Jun 24 15:57:38 haha\ Jun 24 15:58:27 good morning mr. romainguy. Jun 24 15:58:35 hi Jun 24 15:58:44 how are you doing? Jun 24 15:58:44 Dougie187: peachy Jun 24 15:58:50 haha Jun 24 15:58:50 tired Jun 24 15:58:52 lol Jun 24 15:58:53 ... Jun 24 15:58:54 go to hell infobot Jun 24 15:58:57 peachy? Jun 24 15:59:40 you got a lot of new stuff on your plate romainguy? Jun 24 15:59:49 always :)) Jun 24 15:59:56 heh Jun 24 16:00:13 and this morning I just thought about a tool I'd like to write Jun 24 16:00:21 oo Jun 24 16:00:23 oh yeah? Jun 24 16:00:23 a new tool :) Jun 24 16:00:26 do share. Jun 24 16:00:36 if/when it's writtent :) Jun 24 16:00:38 -t Jun 24 16:00:50 hopefully in the next SDK :p Jun 24 16:01:06 sad panda. Jun 24 16:01:20 how come dan and jason don't come around much anymore? Jun 24 16:01:32 they weren't in the office for the past few weeks Jun 24 16:01:33 they don't want to hear all this speculation bs Jun 24 16:01:45 lol Jun 24 16:01:48 they dont like talking to us?> Jun 24 16:01:56 they were busy Jun 24 16:02:03 so we smell bad? Jun 24 16:02:21 it must be bad if they can smell it over irc. Jun 24 16:02:24 either way. Jun 24 16:02:24 and michaelnovakjr might have a point ;-)) Jun 24 16:02:47 haha Jun 24 16:03:08 lol i wonder if jason ever came up with that announcement. Jun 24 16:03:09 i doubt it. Jun 24 16:03:10 either way. Jun 24 16:03:34 what do you do for fun romainguy? Jun 24 16:03:45 I like to take photos Jun 24 16:03:57 what do you take photos of? Jun 24 16:04:04 uh Dougie187 Jun 24 16:04:11 ... Jun 24 16:04:13 backgrounds for Android homescreen :) Jun 24 16:04:16 lol Jun 24 16:04:20 for instance :) Jun 24 16:05:04 do you have an android phone yet? Jun 24 16:05:22 no he is testing on an iPhone Jun 24 16:05:31 I have a few development phones yes Jun 24 16:05:39 do you carry one around with you? Jun 24 16:05:48 and show it off in the bars to get the ladies? Jun 24 16:06:09 haha Jun 24 16:06:41 your like "Hey Sweetie, Wanna see my new phone?" Jun 24 16:07:08 you would have to think of a better pick up line. Jun 24 16:07:10 but still. Jun 24 16:07:11 you're weird :) Jun 24 16:07:12 you get the idea. Jun 24 16:07:36 michaelnovakjr: Im trying to lighten the mood! Jun 24 16:07:41 haha Jun 24 16:08:11 we have speculation, mixed with android phone bar pickup lines. Jun 24 16:08:27 what would you rather talk about? Jun 24 16:09:23 food Jun 24 16:09:37 what kinda food do you like romainguy__? Jun 24 16:09:46 the French kind Jun 24 16:09:56 such as? Jun 24 16:10:01 French Toast? Jun 24 16:10:04 and French Fries? Jun 24 16:10:10 French Fries Jun 24 16:10:18 eclairs are french right? Jun 24 16:10:26 and Escargot Jun 24 16:10:32 but that stuff is nasty. Jun 24 16:11:27 are there any more food types that we have that start with French? Jun 24 16:11:31 those are all i can think of. Jun 24 16:13:29 french cuisine is quite sophisticated. Jun 24 16:13:57 i'm irish, don't know much about cuisine Jun 24 16:14:01 i like potatoes Jun 24 16:14:36 Dougie187: français ? Jun 24 16:15:19 potatoes are good. Jun 24 16:15:19 haha Jun 24 16:15:30 Mash em' boil em' stick em' in a stew. Jun 24 16:15:48 10 points to who ever gets that quote. Jun 24 16:15:59 haha Jun 24 16:16:10 maybe dan will Jun 24 16:16:25 with his refreshed mind, after his nice vacation. Jun 24 16:16:34 I need to just not come here anymore Jun 24 16:16:38 lol Jun 24 16:16:41 haha Jun 24 16:16:42 You'd figure I'd learn Jun 24 16:16:46 we are actually talking about food Jun 24 16:16:47 but I just keep. coming. back. Jun 24 16:16:49 hey dan, what is this quote from? Jun 24 16:16:50 (12:15:29 PM) Dougie187: Mash em' boil em' stick em' in a stew. Jun 24 16:17:03 morrildl: they've been waiting for you for a long time :)) Jun 24 16:17:10 haha Jun 24 16:17:27 Dougie187: I am without clue. I am a clue-free zone. Jun 24 16:17:35 (bonus points if anyone gets where THAT quote is from.) Jun 24 16:17:38 seriously? a room full of nerds, and noone gets it? Jun 24 16:18:11 ... Jun 24 16:18:16 this is disappointing. Jun 24 16:18:43 what kinda food do you like morrildl? Jun 24 16:19:04 Dougie187: the edible kind Jun 24 16:19:08 we are cooking you guys a dinner, to entice a new sdk release. Jun 24 16:19:20 but, the downside, is you have to travel to different parts of the US to get it. Jun 24 16:19:26 can we make the topic, "the only thing we were trying to say yesterday is that we don't know anything" Jun 24 16:19:35 not in NYC :) Jun 24 16:19:35 lol Jun 24 16:19:47 NYC has all different types of food from everywhere Jun 24 16:19:56 and i mean everywhere Jun 24 16:19:57 but hes no in NYC is he? Jun 24 16:20:09 and i mean not. Jun 24 16:20:27 (btw, my quote is from Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring) Jun 24 16:20:37 ah that is where its form Jun 24 16:20:38 from Jun 24 16:20:54 good Ol' Homo Sam says it Jun 24 16:21:08 haha Jun 24 16:21:28 morrildl: what do you want for dinner? Jun 24 16:21:41 Dougie187: I just had a breakfast burrito & a Naked juice Jun 24 16:21:46 It's too early to think about dinner Jun 24 16:21:51 i can make a mean lemon chicken. Jun 24 16:22:00 So can I. Jun 24 16:22:03 I am unswerved. Jun 24 16:22:09 mine is meaner. Jun 24 16:22:12 i make a mean Tripe Jun 24 16:22:15 * morrildl believes it. Jun 24 16:22:16 it will destroy your intenstines. Jun 24 16:22:36 what my tripe? Jun 24 16:22:38 I make lemonade syrup that we point into sparkling water to make sparkling lemonade. Jun 24 16:22:39 how about boxed mac and cheese? Jun 24 16:22:47 Tripe *is* destroyed intestines, I thought Jun 24 16:22:52 :) Jun 24 16:23:04 made the italian way, it is soooo good Jun 24 16:23:13 are there potatoes? Jun 24 16:23:30 you can have it with pototoes Jun 24 16:23:36 what kind? Jun 24 16:23:44 but if you haven't had tripe you should really try it Jun 24 16:23:49 boiled Jun 24 16:23:56 boiled potatoes? Jun 24 16:24:05 do you put cheese on them? Jun 24 16:24:19 you can Jun 24 16:24:29 i put the tripe juice, when i have tripe :) Jun 24 16:24:30 yum Jun 24 16:24:46 i am a fan of cheese Jun 24 16:25:34 sometimes at the grocery store, i will stage a fight before the cheese and the meats, just so i can make the cheese win and cheer for them. Then i give them a Toilet paper trophy. Jun 24 16:25:49 then security comes. Jun 24 16:26:09 was this before or after you lost your mind? Jun 24 16:26:16 right in the middle. Jun 24 16:26:22 haha Jun 24 16:27:07 how come noone ever asks "Was that before or after you got your mind back?" Jun 24 16:27:17 or rather "Found your mind" Jun 24 16:27:19 haha Jun 24 16:28:08 well i think we have throughly vanquished the conversation of food. Jun 24 16:28:19 now what shall we talk about? Jun 24 16:28:47 how about music? Jun 24 16:29:03 that always starts fights. Jun 24 16:29:37 food doesnt, because people arn't too partial to their food. For instance, romainguy__ wouldn't kill me if I said "French food is garbage!" Jun 24 16:29:48 but he might if I told him his favorite band was garbage. Jun 24 16:30:08 no I don't care either way Jun 24 16:30:22 what's wrong with garbage? Jun 24 16:30:34 their lead singer... Jun 24 16:30:36 i mean comon.. Jun 24 16:30:40 seriously? Jun 24 16:31:05 well.. i guess they do have that "Cherry Lips" song, and thats rather catchy. Jun 24 16:31:28 haha Jun 24 16:31:33 its all about minus the bear! Jun 24 16:31:37 its good stuff Jun 24 16:31:46 im still a SP fan Jun 24 16:32:08 Smashing Pumpkins + Pink Floyd + Led Zeppelin Jun 24 16:32:16 and in the corner i would whisper Journey and Boston Jun 24 16:32:19 but not in public Jun 24 16:32:24 ha! Jun 24 16:32:52 Good ol' steve perry. Jun 24 16:33:05 you guys wanna see a musical genius who has GREAT music for listening to while you work? Jun 24 16:33:15 who? Jun 24 16:33:19 http://youtube.com/ronaldjenkees Jun 24 16:33:19 do tell. Jun 24 16:33:27 dude is off the hook Jun 24 16:33:27 so basically. Jun 24 16:33:32 i shouldn't click that if im at work? Jun 24 16:33:36 no, its fine Jun 24 16:33:39 swear on the holy bible Jun 24 16:33:40 its nsfw? Jun 24 16:33:43 its safe Jun 24 16:33:50 its a guy playing piano/keyboard Jun 24 16:34:20 ... Jun 24 16:34:22 i bought the CD Jun 24 16:34:24 its sick Jun 24 16:34:33 listen to "disorganized fun"... its insanely good Jun 24 16:34:53 i know... he seems like a real douche and a huge nerd... but the guy is a freakin maestro Jun 24 16:35:00 he looks like someone i would punch in the face. Jun 24 16:35:04 no man Jun 24 16:35:08 he is mad chill Jun 24 16:35:14 lol, you swear on the holy bible? Jun 24 16:35:23 haha Jun 24 16:35:28 what portion of this channel, do you think, cares about that particular swear? :) Jun 24 16:35:30 lol Jun 24 16:35:38 .0005% Jun 24 16:35:51 well... does it matter if YOU care about the bible or if I do if I am swearing on it Jun 24 16:36:04 well if you and i both dont. Jun 24 16:36:08 then your swear is garbage. Jun 24 16:36:10 lol Jun 24 16:36:19 you could be swearing on the gum on the bottom of your shoe. Jun 24 16:36:34 you would swear on a Journey album Jun 24 16:36:38 lol Jun 24 16:36:40 no i wouldnt. Jun 24 16:36:45 (ps. yes i would) Jun 24 16:36:47 you know how i know your'e gay? because you know what other gay people like. Jun 24 16:37:00 i love that scene (40 year old virgin) Jun 24 16:37:02 you know how i know you're gay? Jun 24 16:37:11 haha Jun 24 16:37:15 you like to have sex with men. Jun 24 16:37:20 you know how I know you're gay? you play second life. Jun 24 16:37:35 lol Jun 24 16:37:55 well seriously, Ronald Jenkees is amazing Jun 24 16:38:00 watch this one instead... Jun 24 16:38:01 it was decent. Jun 24 16:38:30 http://youtube.com/watch?v=LoFurLevE28 Jun 24 16:38:44 about 45 seconds in it breaks down NASTY Jun 24 16:38:46 i just watched that one. Jun 24 16:38:51 25 seconds actually Jun 24 16:39:03 tell me thats not some "in the zone" type work music Jun 24 16:39:05 lol, he plays it similar to my cat. Jun 24 16:39:09 as she walks across the piano Jun 24 16:39:19 oh hush Jun 24 16:39:27 you are musically impotent Jun 24 16:39:28 hehe Jun 24 16:40:07 i swear on the bible he's not Jun 24 16:40:08 i said it was decent. Jun 24 16:40:24 i also enjoy the FF7 soundtrack. Jun 24 16:40:26 jasta: i am going to drop the torah on your foot if you keep it up Jun 24 16:40:30 ;) Jun 24 16:41:08 so you think 99.9999995 of all "programmer" types are atheist? Jun 24 16:41:11 i just thought that expression was cute :) Jun 24 16:41:13 % sorry Jun 24 16:41:26 lol Jun 24 16:41:32 trigatch4: i dunno, i haven't ever surveyed the religious beliefs of my peers. Jun 24 16:41:54 trigatch4: they can be a lot of stuff and not give a crap about the bible. Jun 24 16:41:59 but, since we're more easily bated into an argument over which editor to use, i'm guessing many think similarly to me. Jun 24 16:41:59 atheist isnt the only option Jun 24 16:42:10 VIM! Jun 24 16:42:12 non-catholic Jun 24 16:42:14 uncatholic Jun 24 16:42:18 de-catholicized Jun 24 16:42:42 but i didnt mean any social commentary by it. Jun 24 16:42:45 or non-christian... but there seems to be more hatred for catholics than for christians in general Jun 24 16:42:48 i just thought it was cute that you said it :) hehe Jun 24 16:42:56 you swear on the bible. i haven't heard that since i was 8. Jun 24 16:43:00 cute... not the look i'm going for but i'll take it! Jun 24 16:43:04 you know how i know your gay? Jun 24 16:43:06 lol Jun 24 16:43:46 you know how I know you're gay? you're a catholic priest. Jun 24 16:43:51 ;) Jun 24 16:44:01 ouch' Jun 24 16:44:09 yeah but your cute. Jun 24 16:44:14 and cute can never be good. Jun 24 16:44:43 cute is never good when you're in the company of catholic priests Jun 24 16:44:55 ... or ever.... Jun 24 16:45:28 yeah right... Jun 24 16:45:38 if a playboy bunny called you "cute" would you object? Jun 24 16:45:49 no... you would erect Jun 24 16:45:59 so cute can be good Jun 24 16:46:18 ... Jun 24 16:46:23 hey jasta: most opinionated soul on the earth. what do you thinkn of the symbian announcement Jun 24 16:46:24 i would object. Jun 24 16:46:25 well Jun 24 16:46:30 you would object? Jun 24 16:46:34 yes Jun 24 16:46:40 you know how i know you're gay? Jun 24 16:46:42 i would be like I beg to differ. Jun 24 16:46:44 lol Jun 24 16:46:47 tou'che Jun 24 17:21:44 trigatch4: just because i have strong opinions about Android doesn't mean i am strongly opinionated. i don't know of, or care about, the Symbian announcement :) Jun 24 17:22:17 :) Jun 24 17:24:40 http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android?currentPage=3 Jun 24 17:24:47 CC coverage - cool! Jun 24 17:25:57 lol i like how you say "I dont know of the Symbian Announcement" but you are talking about it. Jun 24 17:25:57 lol Jun 24 17:26:10 what do you know! the only android apps still in development Jun 24 17:26:21 Dougie187: i dont have any idea what i'm referring to, though :) Jun 24 17:26:26 lol Jun 24 17:26:29 he just said "the symbian announcement", so i parrotted :) Jun 24 17:26:41 jasta: check out that wired article Jun 24 17:26:52 jasta, symbian is going open source Jun 24 17:27:13 Dougie187: michaelnovakjr: you too.. check it out Jun 24 17:27:29 i did, there's not much there Jun 24 17:27:45 yeah, i'm getting sick of reading the same old crap i already know ;) Jun 24 17:27:59 yea, the slogan same shit different day fits in well Jun 24 17:28:14 haha Jun 24 17:28:36 coverage of the four apps allowed to still development for an open source platform Jun 24 17:28:50 coverage of four apps* Jun 24 17:29:09 phandroid gets mentioned in that article ;) Jun 24 17:29:28 wow, they are reaching for coverage huh? :) Jun 24 17:30:07 trigatch4: which page? Jun 24 17:30:08 androidnerds.com will become available for projects when they actually release another sdk Jun 24 17:30:19 otherwise what's the point Jun 24 17:31:23 muthu: page 4... Jun 24 17:31:27 "The virus was spreading. At an event the next day in Israel, the local Google office had to switch locations to handle the overflow crowd. In London, registration for the developer's conference filled up in two hours. Fanboys were putting up sites for the platform: AndroidGuys, Phandroid, Planet Android." Jun 24 17:31:35 reading article now Jun 24 17:31:36 wow, cool Jun 24 17:31:52 i didnt realize this article was as long as it is Jun 24 17:31:55 jeez Jun 24 17:32:01 yeah, its a good read actually Jun 24 17:32:04 haha you got called a fanboy! Jun 24 17:32:12 i sure did Jun 24 17:32:16 the robot made me his bitch Jun 24 17:32:19 i wonder if they actually bothered to look into the SDK issue :) Jun 24 17:32:31 haha of course not :) Jun 24 17:32:50 dont be silly now jasta :) Jun 24 17:32:53 there are only 1788 people who care about that, jasta Jun 24 17:32:59 (or 1788 groups of people) Jun 24 17:33:03 uh less than that Jun 24 17:33:12 1738 Jun 24 17:33:24 try again Jun 24 17:33:29 twelve Jun 24 17:33:39 like 100 Jun 24 17:33:50 that is my gues Jun 24 17:34:16 i feel like Billy Madison... when Veronica Vaughn is questioning him in the tent.... "Spanish Armada" Jun 24 17:34:23 1817..... "no" Jun 24 17:34:29 1863.... "no" Jun 24 17:34:33 1997 Jun 24 17:34:36 haha i love that part Jun 24 17:35:03 i think a lot more than 100 people SHOULD care... but you're probably right Jun 24 17:35:17 yargh Jun 24 17:35:18 others will care when we can download a new sdk Jun 24 17:35:23 the libsyncml developers are so annoying ;) Jun 24 17:35:35 :) don't like your modifications? Jun 24 17:35:44 no, they're friendly and everything Jun 24 17:35:54 it's just frustrating to work with them. they don't respond to anything in a very timely manner Jun 24 17:36:00 and none of them like IRC, so i can't get a real time dialog going Jun 24 17:36:17 hm, must be the end of the universe kind of nerds Jun 24 17:36:23 it feels like we're hand-writing letters to each other Jun 24 17:36:25 no public contact sort of thing :) Jun 24 17:37:02 change your nick to yodaisyourfriend and then go back into the irc room Jun 24 17:37:24 good article to share with the team Jun 24 17:37:37 f00f- what team? the a team? Jun 24 17:37:52 ya bro Jun 24 17:38:01 haha Jun 24 17:40:06 muthu looks like he stalked wired for this Jun 24 17:40:17 nope Jun 24 17:40:18 its got your sappy spin all over it :) Jun 24 17:40:23 haha Jun 24 17:40:23 not surprised Jun 24 17:40:36 i didn't even meet dan in IO Jun 24 17:40:40 not sure if you folks did Jun 24 17:40:46 yeah you did Jun 24 17:40:46 i did Jun 24 17:40:54 we all met him Jun 24 17:41:18 he might have read my stories though ;) Jun 24 17:41:41 in all 7 pages they don't even bring up the fact the sdk is an elder now and there's no new version available Jun 24 17:42:15 cause that's immaterial at this point Jun 24 17:42:24 how so? Jun 24 17:42:33 it's available for select few Jun 24 17:42:35 without a new sdk how can we develop Jun 24 17:42:38 that's all that matters at this point Jun 24 17:42:58 In Chennai, India, attendees at a Nokia developer conference compared notes on Android's coding kit during the presentations. Jun 24 17:43:03 if phones come out in december than that means we have less than 6 months of dev time Jun 24 17:43:30 if only there's a forum to support a public sdk, i'll gladly sign it Jun 24 17:43:33 they have 50+ apps ready to go Jun 24 17:43:36 i'd say that isn't fair Jun 24 17:43:44 michaelnovakjr: right, life is not fair. Jun 24 17:43:54 but it's enitrely their decision. Jun 24 17:43:59 well we are talking about an open source project Jun 24 17:44:05 don't bite the hand that feeds you. Jun 24 17:44:05 i agree its their decision Jun 24 17:44:19 but don't call yourself open if you make people sign an SDK Jun 24 17:44:30 NDA Jun 24 17:44:43 Closed Handset Alliance Jun 24 17:44:49 exactly Jun 24 17:44:58 dan once commented in here that he wondered if it would be better to not have hyped the "open" part until it became true. Jun 24 17:44:58 if they called it that it wouldn't be a problem Jun 24 17:45:02 i agreed. Jun 24 17:45:06 absolutely Jun 24 17:45:31 and maybe should have taught branching too Jun 24 17:45:45 or at least, being clear about when and what would be open. it took many months for them to first announce that code would come with handset launch. then more months to announce what exactly was going to be open. Jun 24 17:46:19 yeah they shouldnt have Jun 24 17:46:21 to be honest, i wouldn't get a phone with those 50 apps available Jun 24 17:46:22 yeah Jun 24 17:46:26 i want to see more options Jun 24 17:46:26 the upsetting problem here was that THEY knew (and know) what their schedule is, they just don't like sharing it. Jun 24 17:46:30 at release time Jun 24 17:46:38 but you people need to stop beating this topic to death Jun 24 17:47:01 its an issue when you have to halt your development Jun 24 17:47:16 it just makes no sense why they could not have been up front about it. they make it seem like it's no big deal to wait for the source and all that, and defend it as an entirely rational rollout process. Jun 24 17:47:27 and yet, they didn't feel it was appropriate to mention? Jun 24 17:47:44 forget the source for a moment, all we need is an updated SDK Jun 24 17:47:47 it wasn't part of any of the initial discussion on android, that makes no sense. Jun 24 17:47:51 they won't even give that Jun 24 17:48:00 michaelnovakjr: right, but i am just speaking generally. Jun 24 17:48:07 generally, their strategy of secrecy makes no sense ;) Jun 24 17:48:19 yes i agree, it is quite strange Jun 24 17:48:20 there wasn't a plan Jun 24 17:48:32 muthu: if true, then how pathetic. Jun 24 17:48:39 yea Jun 24 17:48:45 that is project management 101 Jun 24 17:49:09 what is included, when it will be out, how will it be available.... Jun 24 17:49:25 but am sure, a public sdk will be out soon Jun 24 17:49:27 obviously the process isn't perfect, but starting out with a plan is really the only way to go Jun 24 17:50:07 yeah, no kidding. if they truly had no approximate guess when the source was going to come, what would be available, etc, then they had no business launching or announcing the project at all. Jun 24 17:50:19 yep Jun 24 17:50:29 they should have kept it under wraps for a bit longer Jun 24 17:50:36 they weren't getting industry pressure Jun 24 17:50:56 again, i'm speaking generically about their strategy. the source of course is not our current pressing issue, but it just says something about their bizarre public relations approach here. Jun 24 17:51:08 yea Jun 24 17:51:41 "I hope it's Android," Page says. But either way, Google wins. Jun 24 17:51:46 like, why leave doubt for months? if you are confident that your decision to release source only when handsets launch (or whenever), why not just say so? Jun 24 17:51:48 I hopt its Android too Jun 24 17:51:53 hope* Jun 24 17:52:29 i mean, confident that your decision is rational* Jun 24 17:52:30 i am curious about this symbian going open source Jun 24 17:52:43 oh Jun 24 17:52:44 what Jun 24 17:52:48 i hope it doesn't end up like java Jun 24 17:52:50 anyway, this all returns to my one central conclusion i have drawn. Jun 24 17:53:09 shit or get off the pot? Jun 24 17:53:10 that Android has been woefully mismanaged. no sinister evil, just incompetent management. Jun 24 17:53:30 great engineers, working with a braindead marketing team :) Jun 24 17:54:02 as evidenced, i think, by the "news" we all saw a couple of days ago Jun 24 17:54:05 understandable, since this was their first major effort Jun 24 17:54:11 ?? Jun 24 17:54:14 every major publication picking up "ANDROID DELAYED!" is generally a sign of braindead marketing :) Jun 24 17:54:15 jasta: Basically you forget that the OHA has 33 more members which might have something to say Jun 24 17:54:16 this is google muthu Jun 24 17:54:27 michaelnovakjr: everyone makes mistakes Jun 24 17:54:52 understood, but come on... every news outlet reporting delays of the original date? Jun 24 17:54:52 nice, glad to see symbian being opened up Jun 24 17:54:53 spykid: That doesn't mean the process changes any. Before you announce a product, you'd better have arrived at a decision on how it will be managed. Jun 24 17:54:56 that wad of shit needs rewriting Jun 24 17:55:04 spykid: If you haven't, again, you had no business announcing it yet. Jun 24 17:55:10 It just makes you look like a dopey, incompetent fool. Jun 24 17:55:20 totally Jun 24 17:56:21 jasta: In the end it's all about contracts and lawyers Jun 24 17:56:32 spykid: In the end, as I said, it's all about mismanagement. Jun 24 17:57:07 just wait, there will be a true open source mobile platform that will destroy android Jun 24 17:57:21 i doubt that very much ;) Jun 24 17:57:37 jasta: So it's just normal Jun 24 17:57:51 spykid: Well sure, incompetent management is common. But that doesn't excuse it. Jun 24 17:57:58 jasta, why would you doubt that? Jun 24 17:58:22 michaelnovakjr: Just because Android has all the right stuff to get traction in the mobile industry, and no other truly open initiative does. Jun 24 17:58:47 For example, LiMo is open only under one uncommon interpretation of the word :) Jun 24 17:59:11 jasta, but there could be a project out there no one is aware of yet Jun 24 17:59:28 Sure, but I doubt it. Again, getting traction in the mobile industry is really hard. Jun 24 17:59:33 And Google has the right stuff to do it. Jun 24 17:59:37 symbian opening up is great Jun 24 17:59:59 muthu: But it won't help Jun 24 18:00:01 btw, for anyone interested in my honest opinion, I do think Android will be a huge hit. Jun 24 18:00:21 yeah right Jun 24 18:00:23 I just think it's being fumbled right now. A lot. Jun 24 18:00:52 That doesn't mean they'll lose the game, though. Jun 24 18:00:57 To continue my lame metaphor :) Jun 24 18:02:25 i don't think android will fail Jun 24 18:02:42 i just have a gut feeling a true open source platform will make itself available Jun 24 18:03:07 like OpenMoko? Jun 24 18:03:17 or the Ubuntu Mobile thing? Jun 24 18:04:37 the Ubuntu mobile is for small laptops not phones i thought? Jun 24 18:08:39 http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2596 Jun 24 18:08:56 that is interesting, open source and how sun just doesn't handle it well Jun 24 18:16:57 java is going open source fyi Jun 24 18:17:18 yes, and its not going easy :) Jun 24 18:17:29 openjdk Jun 24 18:17:40 moving to open source is not easy Jun 24 18:20:50 just read Jun 24 18:20:56 they're rewriting the sound Jun 24 18:21:01 then they'll open source it before the end of the year Jun 24 18:23:56 sound? Jun 24 18:26:48 the JDK contains (contained) several libraries that Sun licensed Jun 24 18:26:56 the rasterizer for instance Jun 24 18:27:10 and some parts of the sound system Jun 24 18:28:27 i'm not saying the won't open source it Jun 24 18:28:39 it just shows how hard it is to go to open source Jun 24 18:29:11 they didn't have that much issues with OpenOffice.org Jun 24 18:29:37 (they just open sourced it without the licensed parts, like the grammar corrector) Jun 24 18:32:03 romainguy, openoffice had the benefit of not being a library that other apps depend on Jun 24 18:32:29 I imagine that they would have issues with adoption if they left out the sound parts that are closed source Jun 24 18:33:38 I agree Jun 24 18:33:49 I'm just saying that going Open Source is not necessarily very difficult Jun 24 18:33:53 it just depends on what you open source Jun 24 18:34:27 true Jun 24 18:38:11 yawn Jun 24 18:40:24 hey romain Jun 24 18:40:48 yes? Jun 24 18:40:53 just saying hello Jun 24 18:40:58 oh, hi :) Jun 24 18:43:06 romainguy: do you know anything about the method tracing limits? Jun 24 18:43:15 i was tinkering with something yesterday and ran into this again... Jun 24 18:43:26 nope but I never hit that limit myself Jun 24 18:43:37 it seems to be hit at 57s. Jun 24 18:43:47 but i can't tell where the limit is coming from Jun 24 18:44:08 i'm writing to /tmp, which is not full after it stops collecting data, and the trace file isn't even very large at that point. Jun 24 18:44:36 57000msec seems like it would be an arbitrary place to stop otherwise. Jun 24 18:45:26 maybe it's a RAM issue? Jun 24 18:45:49 perhaps, i hadn't looked at that. Jun 24 18:46:12 but my initial thought is that with a file only 7MB on disk, there must not be that much buffering... Jun 24 18:46:16 osmething might be leaking, though. Jun 24 19:06:03 michaelnovakjr: have you heard of the airborne toxic event? Jun 24 19:06:10 nope Jun 24 19:06:17 you should check 'em out :) Jun 24 19:06:33 they're gonna be in NY at the end of July, with what i believe is their first tour :) Jun 24 19:06:37 nice Jun 24 19:07:18 their first CD is coming out in August, exciting stuff :) Jun 24 19:15:28 hey phil Jun 24 20:23:12 Android international developer day - is it coming to India? Jun 24 20:23:24 morrildl: did it happen in India? Jun 24 20:24:28 Google alert for GPhone is all coming in with news about 'delays'.. Jun 24 20:24:54 haha, how the blogosphere can sometimes really get going Jun 24 20:26:25 i think this news lit up so quickly because a lot of people are rooting for android to fail Jun 24 20:26:29 bad news is going to carry far :) Jun 24 20:27:35 may be Jun 24 20:27:47 people seem to like bad news better Jun 24 20:28:04 what's up jasta? Jun 24 20:28:39 not too much, just beating my head against libsyncml again today Jun 24 20:29:24 hmm Jun 24 20:29:34 what's your plan for ADC 2? Jun 24 20:29:47 no plan Jun 24 20:29:56 really? Jun 24 20:30:05 i know you should have something up Jun 24 20:30:38 i have no plan, not that i won't submit for it. Jun 24 20:30:45 ok Jun 24 20:30:53 right now, i can't really develop a plan for anything, since i know not when anything will happen Jun 24 20:31:07 device out late this year Jun 24 20:31:11 i don't know that Jun 24 20:31:15 that means android open sourced early next year Jun 24 20:31:19 then adc2 starts Jun 24 20:31:22 i'm not assuming squat :) Jun 24 20:31:26 hehe Jun 24 20:31:52 adc2 on real devices should be really exciting Jun 24 20:32:16 agreed Jun 24 20:32:36 i doubt very much that you'll be eligible, though. Jun 24 20:32:40 why? Jun 24 20:32:52 adc2 is completely different from adc1 Jun 24 20:33:02 at least not eligible with the same app of course, that would make no sense. Jun 24 20:33:20 may be Jun 24 20:33:52 although i won't hold my breath. google is a miserably stupid company, apparently ;) Jun 24 20:34:03 not really Jun 24 20:34:07 *cough* Weather Channel is a partner of Sprint *cough* Jun 24 20:34:29 android is their first major initiative with the community Jun 24 20:34:30 so lessons learned will do good in future Jun 24 20:34:51 i know what i'm doing for adc 2 ;) Jun 24 20:35:15 but this year its all CC Jun 24 20:35:26 and its going great! Jun 24 20:36:34 hehehe Jun 24 20:36:48 you know, summer of code folks were not eligigle, muthu. Jun 24 20:36:53 yep Jun 24 20:36:54 i agree with jasta Jun 24 20:36:56 we won't be eligible Jun 24 20:37:05 f00f-: i don't think so Jun 24 20:37:18 i actually hope the winners of round 2 won't be eligible Jun 24 20:37:18 i really doubt that anyone who has already had a relationship with google on this level will be eligible. it defeats the fair spirit of competition. Jun 24 20:37:27 yeah Jun 24 20:37:43 they're giving out money for a rason Jun 24 20:37:46 *reason Jun 24 20:37:46 i agree if its the same app Jun 24 20:37:59 the winning apps will be not eligible, of course Jun 24 20:38:05 jasta: that's the great thing about entering as a company ;) Jun 24 20:38:08 with a different app maybe, but their legal dept might just nix the whole idea. Jun 24 20:38:09 just form a new company and submit Jun 24 20:38:21 haha Jun 24 20:38:33 that's why they would just eliminate winning apps Jun 24 20:38:38 anything else must be fair game Jun 24 20:38:56 f00f-: yeah, but if they specifically stipulate that no prior winners are eligible, and you are still the benefactor of both winnings, then the IRS will have a real problem with you ;) Jun 24 20:39:07 well hopefully the successful apps will have good deals going by that time, so they won't have time to deal with the little prize monies from ADC II Jun 24 20:39:14 not that you're likely to get caught, but messing with the IRS is unwise business ;) Jun 24 20:39:18 jasta: hehehehe yes ;P Jun 24 20:39:40 one of the few types of financial crimes in the US that will land you in jail for a long time Jun 24 20:39:55 white collar ftw Jun 24 20:40:04 are you planning to enter ADC II jasta? Jun 24 20:40:08 meh, probably Jun 24 20:40:19 with same app idea? Jun 24 20:40:23 i'm still working on my app, of course. Jun 24 20:40:30 though i have been focusing on other areas Jun 24 20:40:41 jasta: what's the problem with IRS? Jun 24 20:40:49 and so if it happens that the ADC2 is convenient for me, sure. Jun 24 20:40:51 the ADC1 was. Jun 24 20:40:55 muthu: watch the simpsons episode Jun 24 20:41:00 haha Jun 24 20:41:04 simpsons to the rescue Jun 24 20:41:15 muthu: you mean lying to them about dubious earning sources? Jun 24 20:41:22 why would you lie? Jun 24 20:41:43 only the winning apps will not be eligible Jun 24 20:41:47 if google stipulates in the rules that you may not participate if you have won, but you formed some new company to which you were the benefactor Jun 24 20:41:55 no Jun 24 20:41:56 that would be a blatant violation, and the IRS would have a really big problem with that. Jun 24 20:41:59 muthu, adc1 winners won't be eligible Jun 24 20:42:10 adc1 winning apps will not be eligible Jun 24 20:42:13 that's the right wording Jun 24 20:42:21 i don't think that is how it will work Jun 24 20:42:30 muthu: honestly, i'm not in the mood for your assertions today. Jun 24 20:42:42 jasta: come on, you can't back off ;) Jun 24 20:43:08 get some irish cofee to get back into the mood Jun 24 20:43:09 lol Jun 24 20:43:43 assert(jasta == muthu); Jun 24 20:43:56 you know how i feel about pseudomathematical gibberish Jun 24 20:44:15 assert muthu > jasta; Jun 24 20:44:18 hahaha Jun 24 20:44:20 true Jun 24 20:44:23 lol Jun 24 20:44:54 i just can't see why muthu would think adc winners would be eligible Jun 24 20:45:01 what would be the point? Jun 24 20:45:13 michaelnovakjr: what you mean? Jun 24 20:45:19 oops, shit. i'm late for an appointment Jun 24 20:45:28 i can see your point on the winning apps Jun 24 20:45:35 no on the winners Jun 24 20:45:35 jasta: where you going? Jun 24 20:45:39 irs Jun 24 20:45:43 haha Jun 24 20:46:24 winners won't be included in adc2, i'd be shocked if it did Jun 24 20:48:21 winning apps will not be included Jun 24 20:48:28 that's the right thing to do Jun 24 20:48:46 muthu not including winners is the right thing to do Jun 24 20:49:19 no Jun 24 20:49:23 why? Jun 24 20:49:33 what would the challenge gain from that? Jun 24 20:49:34 why would you be penalised for winning something? Jun 24 20:49:45 you wouldn't, you already won Jun 24 20:49:57 that's challenge 1 Jun 24 20:49:58 STOP Jun 24 20:50:02 haha Jun 24 20:50:04 completely unrelated to challenge 2 Jun 24 20:50:06 GO Jun 24 20:50:10 you're saying the samething Jun 24 20:50:12 15:48 muthu winning apps will not be included Jun 24 20:50:12 15:48 muthu that's the right thing to do Jun 24 20:50:13 15:48 michaelnovakjr muthu not including winners is the right thing to do Jun 24 20:50:19 there is no argument there Jun 24 20:50:21 null Jun 24 20:50:21 (void) Jun 24 20:50:44 final muthu says (); Jun 24 20:50:55 those aren't the same Jun 24 20:51:08 close enough Jun 24 20:51:08 if you are comparing what i say to what he says Jun 24 20:51:26 f00f-: what you saying? Jun 24 20:51:30 winning app is made by a set of winning people Jun 24 20:51:44 and those winning people should not be included Jun 24 20:51:48 thus it's the question of winning people Jun 24 20:51:55 yes Jun 24 20:52:09 where people is a set of persons Jun 24 20:52:18 and a person can be any legal entity, natural person, company, etc. Jun 24 20:52:27 yes Jun 24 20:52:41 the entity responsible for the winning application Jun 24 20:52:43 it becomes difficult to enforce that Jun 24 20:52:51 the entity that receives the prize Jun 24 20:52:54 sure the same company can't resubmit Jun 24 20:53:00 what if they form a new company and submit a new app Jun 24 20:53:05 what then? Jun 24 20:53:13 they have no recourse Jun 24 20:53:25 you'd have to file with the gov't at that point Jun 24 20:53:27 Is it possible to run Android on a kernel other than linux? Jun 24 20:53:32 windows Jun 24 20:53:37 Such as Windows CE or QNX or something? Jun 24 20:53:38 michaelnovakjr: filing with the government? done. Jun 24 20:53:56 who's your top 3 people? Jun 24 20:54:00 same as the other company? Jun 24 20:54:07 let's say it is Jun 24 20:54:24 then it would be the same group responsible for the winning application Jun 24 20:54:30 michaelnovakjr: you can't just eliminate people like that Jun 24 20:54:34 unless they specifically state that the board members cannot have been board members of a prior winning awardee, then it wont work Jun 24 20:54:34 why not? Jun 24 20:54:45 but the contract legally is between google and the company Jun 24 20:54:47 that would be a given if they went that route Jun 24 20:54:48 not the people behind the company Jun 24 20:55:14 not saying also the same people would win too Jun 24 20:55:24 i actually would see it go differenlt Jun 24 20:55:35 yes, we are talking about extreme scenarios here! Jun 24 20:55:45 haha Jun 24 20:55:52 of course Jun 24 20:56:10 windows < Was that in response to me? Jun 24 20:56:24 the android system hasn't been released yet Jun 24 20:56:28 anything you attempt is a hack Jun 24 20:56:31 TFGBD: you need linux kernel Jun 24 20:56:36 so there's no official support Jun 24 20:56:44 dude Jun 24 20:56:47 muthu, a kernel image Jun 24 20:56:50 we need a FAQ for this channel Jun 24 20:57:00 i have a kernel image for win mobile that runs Jun 24 20:57:10 but its pointless Jun 24 20:57:16 37signals is hiring - good to know Jun 24 20:57:16 there's nothing to do with it Jun 24 20:57:54 you think they would hire you muthu Jun 24 20:57:57 What do you mean, michaelnovakjr? Jun 24 20:58:09 It runs on top of Windows CE? Jun 24 20:58:11 f00f-: they send me that Jun 24 20:58:32 Or it runs on hardware designed for CE and boots into linux? Jun 24 20:58:55 f00f-: i have my own shit to take care,, back home Jun 24 20:58:56 hehe Jun 24 21:00:12 there is no point in using android because it doesn't do anything useful Jun 24 21:00:27 Oh. I thought so. Jun 24 21:00:37 its the sdk emulator code Jun 24 21:00:48 its meant for development testing not for consumer testing Jun 24 21:00:58 hope goog really frees up android, in a way its useful to small players Jun 24 21:01:10 I'd still like such thing. Jun 24 21:01:13 to see* Jun 24 21:01:27 There are a few 3rd party apps for it now, though. Aren't there? Jun 24 21:01:34 the real success of android would depend on how it enables the smaller folks to realize their dreams Jun 24 21:01:35 it hasn't been released Jun 24 21:01:43 so there's stuff only in development Jun 24 21:02:04 where the hell jasta went? Jun 24 21:02:11 Then what of http://www.trackdroid.com/ Jun 24 21:02:52 For something not released, it sure seems to have a community of developers already. Jun 24 21:03:06 never heard of it Jun 24 21:03:21 but the application is not in use Jun 24 21:03:30 it can't be deployed yet Jun 24 21:04:16 i have a kernel image for win mobile that runs Jun 24 21:04:24 ... Jun 24 21:04:27 What is it that you have exactly? Jun 24 21:04:48 its the emulator code running on a kernel image Jun 24 21:04:54 it is nothing useful Jun 24 21:04:55 TFGBD: are you running android on win mobile? Jun 24 21:05:03 lollerskates Jun 24 21:05:08 muthu, it doesn't work right Jun 24 21:05:18 oh ok Jun 24 21:05:19 Can you send it? Jun 24 21:05:20 time, battery, signal Jun 24 21:05:27 none of those indicators work Jun 24 21:05:32 I could care less how well it works. Jun 24 21:05:37 ? Jun 24 21:05:48 so then why do you want to run it? Jun 24 21:05:57 Why not? Jun 24 21:06:00 it doesn't save anything either Jun 24 21:06:06 So. Jun 24 21:06:11 so once its powered down everything is lost Jun 24 21:06:13 Neither does the desktop emulator seem to. Jun 24 21:06:19 and there's only radio drivers for HTC Jun 24 21:06:29 the desktop emulator does save?? Jun 24 21:06:34 of course it saves Jun 24 21:06:37 it has to Jun 24 21:06:44 Okay Jun 24 21:07:01 radio drivers are only available for HTC Jun 24 21:07:10 so the cell signal itself won't even pick up Jun 24 21:07:17 so the three things it has can't be tested Jun 24 21:07:22 As cool as having android running on my phone, TFGBD, it's pretty useless. Jun 24 21:07:31 browser, maps, and phone Jun 24 21:07:31 exactly Jun 24 21:07:31 So what is it you have exactly? A flashable rom or an .exe application port of the desktop emulator? Jun 24 21:07:47 its a kernel image with the android software Jun 24 21:07:48 I'm still not clear there. Jun 24 21:08:00 its basically the emulator on a phone Jun 24 21:08:10 without the functionality Jun 24 21:08:18 TFGBD: it's a kernel image, with an initrd holding the Android OS Jun 24 21:08:20 are you testing an app on it? Jun 24 21:08:25 and there's a windows mobile app that'll boot the kernel. Jun 24 21:08:39 the windows mobile app acts like a bootloader Jun 24 21:08:47 Oh, so it bootstraps from CE. Jun 24 21:08:56 Is it only for certain PDA models? Jun 24 21:08:59 yes Jun 24 21:09:20 Okay, so I get ya. That does not seem to interesting. Jun 24 21:09:30 not yet Jun 24 21:09:41 it will once it is officially released Jun 24 21:10:40 Are android apps completely managed like J2ME or am I mistaken? Jun 24 21:10:59 what do you mean by managed? Jun 24 21:11:05 gc? Jun 24 21:11:10 completely managed by android, yes Jun 24 21:11:26 wait, what do you mean by managed? Jun 24 21:11:34 processor independant, complied to bytecode Jun 24 21:11:56 the apps are built off an android SDK..... they won't port Jun 24 21:12:00 Are they not Java apps running in a VM? Jun 24 21:12:14 yes they are java apps, but they are using an Android library Jun 24 21:12:15 and runtime Jun 24 21:12:29 Yeah, obviously. Jun 24 21:12:39 Is Android more of less just a more advanced J2ME MIDP then? Jun 24 21:13:12 Do you think it is possible the runtime will be ported to other OSes in the future once it is released? Jun 24 21:13:16 android might be similar to j2me Jun 24 21:13:26 Or aren't these details even clear yet. Jun 24 21:13:38 i don't get the need to port the runtime? Jun 24 21:13:50 What is the need to port the J2ME runtime? Jun 24 21:13:56 So other OSes can run J2ME midlets. Jun 24 21:14:14 android is not j2me Jun 24 21:14:24 I'm aware of that. Jun 24 21:14:28 goog is not going to work on porting android Jun 24 21:14:35 definitely not Jun 24 21:14:36 but ports might be available Jun 24 21:14:43 That is what I'm saying. Jun 24 21:15:01 CE has about 10 MIDP compliant VMs from 3rd parties alone. Jun 24 21:15:09 i am not sure about a port Jun 24 21:15:18 Will it not be open source? Jun 24 21:15:18 just the runtime wouldn't help much Jun 24 21:15:25 sure parts of it will Jun 24 21:15:37 not as a whole though Jun 24 21:15:52 Is most of the GUI itself written in Java too? Jun 24 21:15:59 Like the browser and such Jun 24 21:16:11 the browser is based on WebKit Jun 24 21:16:20 no one outside google has seen code for the GUI Jun 24 21:16:23 I know. So I can't imagine that being ported to java Jun 24 21:17:16 these are all unknown details at the moment Jun 24 21:17:29 Okay, sorry then. Jun 24 21:17:44 Somehow I thouht more was known about it then I realized. Jun 24 21:17:52 check out http://code.google.com/android Jun 24 21:17:59 that is what is known Jun 24 21:18:40 mmm Jun 24 21:19:04 there's even an faw Jun 24 21:19:06 faq Jun 24 21:21:21 Nokia buying Symbian is the big news today Jun 24 21:21:56 that has been beaten to death already Jun 24 21:22:17 iphone brings the prices down Jun 24 21:22:21 now nokia opening up Jun 24 21:22:27 wow, the android effect Jun 24 21:22:39 i'm not sure that is android Jun 24 21:22:44 nokia is taking this seriously Jun 24 21:22:46 being as its not released yet Jun 24 21:23:01 According to Wikipedia "It allows developers to write managed code in a Java-like language that utilizes Google-developed Java libraries,[2] but does not support programs developed in native code." Jun 24 21:23:04 iPhone is bringing the price down because it will replace the iPod Jun 24 21:23:08 So, that answers that... Jun 24 21:23:54 * TFGBD patiently Awaits Android>J2ME Personal Profile wrappers in the future... Jun 24 22:31:34 l Jun 24 23:06:19 Dougie187: you there? Jun 24 23:06:24 yup Jun 24 23:06:25 whats up? Jun 24 23:33:05 you guys can talk to krosaen, he works on Android's UI framework too :)) Jun 24 23:49:21 romainguy: Is the Android team based in SV, Boston or mixed? Jun 24 23:49:47 SV? Jun 24 23:49:57 Silicon Valley ;) Jun 24 23:50:13 there are Android engineers in various places :) Jun 24 23:51:34 it's secret Jun 24 23:52:34 "the seventh floor of a Kendall Square office tower" - secret? Jun 25 00:29:59 hi... Jun 25 00:30:22 hi Jun 25 00:30:37 Whats up Jun 25 00:31:04 muthu hi Jun 25 00:31:11 jasta hi Jun 25 00:31:14 Razec: hi Jun 25 00:31:56 muthu what do you recent development? Jun 25 00:32:10 android Jun 25 00:32:22 http://cookingcapsules.com Jun 25 00:32:31 checking now Jun 25 00:32:43 yeah, muthu, my girlfriend loves your idea btw :) Jun 25 00:32:58 AttractiveApe: thanks, lots of people love them Jun 25 00:33:07 its a nice useful app Jun 25 00:33:43 muthu very interesting... Jun 25 00:33:56 yeah, real cool Jun 25 00:40:03 muthu, you're leaving soon Jun 25 00:40:06 let's meet up Jun 25 00:40:12 sure, when? Jun 25 00:40:18 i'm leaving this weekend Jun 25 00:40:23 what day are you gone? Jun 25 00:40:33 i'm leaving sunday Jun 25 00:41:02 hmm ok let me see Jun 25 00:41:14 cool Jun 25 00:41:20 jasta: you around? Jun 25 00:46:45 how about saturday muthu Jun 25 00:46:51 are you still in dublin Jun 25 00:46:57 yeah Jun 25 00:50:48 yup **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 25 02:59:57 2008