**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 25 02:59:57 2008
Jun 25 04:45:32 <jasta> anyone seen charlie wilson's war?
Jun 25 04:45:39 <jasta> not sure if i should watch it tonight
Jun 25 04:48:15 <romainguy__> I read the book
Jun 25 07:23:30 <trigatch4> hi
Jun 25 11:14:54 <spykid> anno^da: btw mit wem von der t-com hast du geredet? Level?
Jun 25 12:26:01 <dcordes> hi
Jun 25 12:26:09 <dcordes> in the dialer, where do you dial after you typed in a number?
Jun 25 12:27:49 <dcordes> buster__: are you the guy who had the vogue?
Jun 25 12:28:33 <buster__> the vogue?
Jun 25 12:29:34 <dcordes> nevermind. do you know how to dial in the dialer?
Jun 25 12:30:17 <buster__> press the green button? dunno
Jun 25 12:30:39 <dcordes> there is none
Jun 25 12:30:57 <buster__> below the display
Jun 25 12:30:58 <dcordes> I got the two menu buttons on top (Dialer, Recent Calls)
Jun 25 12:31:13 <dcordes> then the field where you put the number with a pink X on its right
Jun 25 12:31:24 <dcordes> and bottom part is the on screen keypad
Jun 25 12:31:35 <buster__> actually i dont have the emulator here, so...
Jun 25 12:31:45 <buster__> yes, i meant the "real" buttons below the screen
Jun 25 12:31:55 <dcordes> obviously the phone app (the version I got here) assumes you got a working dialer button
Jun 25 12:32:01 <dcordes> well my phone has one but it doesn't react
Jun 25 12:32:22 <dcordes> maybe need to remap it in the kernel
Jun 25 12:32:42 <buster__> so you have it installed on real hardware?
Jun 25 12:32:49 <dcordes> of cooourse
Jun 25 12:33:03 <buster__> dont believe that works, regarding to actually call someone
Jun 25 12:33:04 <dcordes> somebody here who can hint me on how to dial in the dialer w/o working hardware keys?
Jun 25 12:33:17 <dcordes> buster__: why you don't know who I am and what I have here
Jun 25 12:33:34 <dcordes> so that's vague but we had vague discussions in the paste so nevermind
Jun 25 12:33:55 <buster__> i said, i believe, not that i know
Jun 25 12:34:05 <buster__> just read properly
Jun 25 12:35:27 <dcordes> :(((
Jun 25 12:35:51 <dcordes> buster__: sorry didn't mean to hate
Jun 25 12:36:34 <buster__> anyway, did you ask on the android-internals group?
Jun 25 12:36:43 <dcordes> buster__: where is it?
Jun 25 12:37:05 <dcordes> are those the kernel devs like swetland, san and so?
Jun 25 12:37:11 <buster__> they are having a hard time bringing android to run on nokia n810, framebuffer, kernel compile, etc.
Jun 25 12:37:26 <buster__> that just shows that its not ready for real hardware yet
Jun 25 12:37:50 <buster__> its an android group, hardware-related
Jun 25 12:38:00 <dcordes> n810 is not so interesting, since it has no phone
Jun 25 12:49:36 <dcordes> I will just remap the dial button in the kernel according to how it is on the vogue
Jun 25 12:49:46 <dcordes> buster__: thanks for the pointers cya
Jun 25 12:50:14 <dcordes> o wait I will just idle maybe somebody will come up with a hint on how to dial on the screen
Jun 25 12:56:29 <michaelnovakjr> buster__ is that on irc
Jun 25 12:56:44 <Dougie187> good morning michaelnovakjr
Jun 25 12:56:49 <michaelnovakjr> howdy
Jun 25 12:57:08 <Dougie187> hows it going.
Jun 25 12:57:26 <michaelnovakjr> exhausted
Jun 25 12:57:35 <michaelnovakjr> how do you get up so early?
Jun 25 12:58:28 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 12:58:38 <Dougie187> class usually.
Jun 25 12:58:41 <Dougie187> but today i have an interview.
Jun 25 12:58:42 <michaelnovakjr> what time?
Jun 25 12:58:53 <dcordes> michaelnovakjr: I think buster__ was speaking fo a google group /mailing list
Jun 25 12:59:01 <michaelnovakjr> ah damn
Jun 25 12:59:16 <dcordes> Dougie187: what sort of interview do you have?
Jun 25 12:59:20 <Dougie187> 10:30
Jun 25 12:59:20 <michaelnovakjr> android is premature
Jun 25 12:59:36 <Dougie187> its a state job, for administering a Systems Management Server.
Jun 25 12:59:47 <michaelnovakjr> what state
Jun 25 12:59:58 <dcordes> cool
Jun 25 13:00:07 <Dougie187> florida.
Jun 25 13:00:13 <Dougie187> Department of Transportation.
Jun 25 13:00:17 <michaelnovakjr> ah that's right
Jun 25 13:00:59 <michaelnovakjr> i got android running on my iPod!
Jun 25 13:01:05 <Dougie187> really?
Jun 25 13:01:09 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 13:01:12 <Dougie187> What version?
Jun 25 13:01:17 <Dougie187> (ipod)
Jun 25 13:01:30 <michaelnovakjr> think about it :)
Jun 25 13:01:49 <Dougie187> thinking.
Jun 25 13:01:56 <michaelnovakjr> click wheel...
Jun 25 13:02:00 <michaelnovakjr> typing...
Jun 25 13:02:04 <dcordes> you can get it working on virtually any device that supports the linux kernel
Jun 25 13:02:34 <michaelnovakjr> i wouldn't say linux kernel
Jun 25 13:02:50 <michaelnovakjr> i can put a 'linux kernel' in my stopwatch if i watched to
Jun 25 13:02:56 <dcordes> any device as in any PDAish device ^^
Jun 25 13:03:14 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: there are like 3 versions of the ipod that have a click wheel.
Jun 25 13:03:16 <michaelnovakjr> and android installed is useless
Jun 25 13:03:24 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187, joking :)
Jun 25 13:03:49 <michaelnovakjr> my emphasis is on how useless that would be :)
Jun 25 13:03:49 <Dougie187> so you didnt get it going on your ipod?
Jun 25 13:03:52 <Dougie187> and your a liar now?
Jun 25 13:04:00 <michaelnovakjr> yes, but i didn't sleep with that woman
Jun 25 13:04:04 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 25 13:04:12 <Dougie187> good. because then you would have crossed the line.
Jun 25 13:04:20 <michaelnovakjr> i know
Jun 25 13:04:55 <michaelnovakjr> people that are running android on hardware now are just running the ever so bare emulator image that comes with the SDK
Jun 25 13:05:05 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 13:05:11 <Dougie187> are you a vim groupie?
Jun 25 13:05:12 <michaelnovakjr> one person wrote radio drivers, but again..... useless at the moment
Jun 25 13:05:16 <michaelnovakjr> nano
Jun 25 13:05:20 <Dougie187> wtf.
Jun 25 13:05:20 <Dougie187> nano?
Jun 25 13:05:24 <Dougie187> are you serious?
Jun 25 13:05:29 <michaelnovakjr> why not
Jun 25 13:05:33 <michaelnovakjr> nano is awesome
Jun 25 13:05:37 <Dougie187> because thats like saying you program in word.
Jun 25 13:05:39 <michaelnovakjr> i use vim on my servers
Jun 25 13:05:43 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:06:07 <michaelnovakjr> i must say though, i like nano, but the line wrapping is annoying
Jun 25 13:06:18 <Dougie187> yeah, but vim does that too.
Jun 25 13:06:22 <Dougie187> though there is some way to make it not.
Jun 25 13:06:24 <Dougie187> but i dont know it.
Jun 25 13:06:29 <Dougie187> i love folding in vim.
Jun 25 13:06:31 <Dougie187> that is the shit.
Jun 25 13:06:35 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 13:06:39 <Dougie187> and splitting.
Jun 25 13:06:40 <Dougie187> ;)
Jun 25 13:06:45 <dcordes> any device as in any PDAish device ^^  <- don't know if that arrived
Jun 25 13:06:48 <michaelnovakjr> i used to use vi for everything
Jun 25 13:06:54 <Dougie187> dcordes: yes it did.
Jun 25 13:07:03 <Dougie187> vim > vi
Jun 25 13:07:12 <Dougie187> vi > emacs > nano
Jun 25 13:07:13 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:07:20 <michaelnovakjr> vi > emacs > nano > word
Jun 25 13:07:28 <Dougie187> nano ~ word
Jun 25 13:07:30 <michaelnovakjr> hah
Jun 25 13:07:42 <Dougie187> because nano ~ pico
Jun 25 13:07:51 <Dougie187> and pico ~ gedit ~ wordpad ~ word
Jun 25 13:08:00 <Dougie187> => nano ~ word
Jun 25 13:08:04 <michaelnovakjr> oh boy
Jun 25 13:08:14 <michaelnovakjr> there's way too many text editors in the world
Jun 25 13:08:18 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:08:24 <Dougie187> but theres only one for programmers.
Jun 25 13:08:25 <michaelnovakjr> we need to start a foundation that only supports vi
Jun 25 13:08:27 <Dougie187> and thats VIM!
Jun 25 13:08:32 <michaelnovakjr> and make everyone use it!
Jun 25 13:08:35 <Dougie187> jasta would hop on that train.
Jun 25 13:08:39 <michaelnovakjr> :0
Jun 25 13:09:00 <Dougie187> i love vim.
Jun 25 13:09:07 <Dougie187> there are so many cool things you can do with it.
Jun 25 13:09:12 <michaelnovakjr> i must say its a sexy editor :)
Jun 25 13:09:12 <Dougie187> and all the awesome plugins.
Jun 25 13:09:18 <Dougie187> do you use latex?
Jun 25 13:09:22 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:09:26 <Dougie187> not condoms.
Jun 25 13:09:27 <Dougie187> LaTeX
Jun 25 13:09:32 <michaelnovakjr> i know i know
Jun 25 13:09:38 <Dougie187> pervert.
Jun 25 13:09:40 <michaelnovakjr> it was just at the right time
Jun 25 13:09:42 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:09:53 <Dougie187> either way.
Jun 25 13:09:55 <Dougie187> do you?
Jun 25 13:09:58 <michaelnovakjr> but no i don't use latex
Jun 25 13:10:01 <Dougie187> ok.
Jun 25 13:10:08 <Dougie187> if you ever have to, check out latex-suite
Jun 25 13:10:18 <Dougie187> its a really cool vim latex plugin
Jun 25 13:10:29 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:10:41 <Dougie187> thats what i use to write all my reports for school.
Jun 25 13:11:02 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:11:45 <Dougie187> do you use folding or splitting in vim?
Jun 25 13:11:59 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 25 13:12:10 <Dougie187> those have to be two of my favorite features.
Jun 25 13:12:18 <Dougie187> what foldmethod do you like?
Jun 25 13:12:20 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
Jun 25 13:12:27 <michaelnovakjr> its good stuff
Jun 25 13:12:28 <Dougie187> i typically use marker.
Jun 25 13:12:34 <Dougie187> but i would like to learn expr
Jun 25 13:13:25 <michaelnovakjr> expr
Jun 25 13:13:30 <Dougie187> you use expr?
Jun 25 13:14:17 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 25 13:14:25 <Dougie187> what is your foldexpr?
Jun 25 13:14:31 <Dougie187> i never really got how to set it up
Jun 25 13:15:56 <michaelnovakjr> i have it setup on my svn/git server
Jun 25 13:16:22 <michaelnovakjr> i write all my shit down because i can't remember anything :)
Jun 25 13:16:27 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:16:37 <Dougie187> i remember everything.
Jun 25 13:16:46 <Dougie187> i dont write down anything.
Jun 25 13:16:52 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Jun 25 13:17:01 <Dougie187> but i do send myself emails all time.
Jun 25 13:17:04 <Dougie187> with things to do.
Jun 25 13:17:05 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:17:07 <Dougie187> so i dont forget.
Jun 25 13:17:08 <michaelnovakjr> i do that too :)
Jun 25 13:18:15 <Dougie187> lucky for me gmail keeps giving me more space.
Jun 25 13:18:16 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:18:44 <michaelnovakjr> i run my own mail server :)
Jun 25 13:18:46 <Dougie187> i only have like 803 megs of emails in it.
Jun 25 13:19:00 <Dougie187> out of the 7gigs.
Jun 25 13:19:19 <michaelnovakjr> i have 1TB
Jun 25 13:19:28 <Dougie187> i dont think ill ever need that much.
Jun 25 13:19:32 <Dougie187> plus, this is free
Jun 25 13:19:35 <Dougie187> and hosted for me.
Jun 25 13:19:36 <michaelnovakjr> me either :)
Jun 25 13:19:45 <michaelnovakjr> but combined email addresses
Jun 25 13:19:47 <Dougie187> i have a total of 10189 emails.
Jun 25 13:19:52 <michaelnovakjr> i run zimbra
Jun 25 13:19:55 <Dougie187> lol, i have 3 email addresses with gmail.
Jun 25 13:20:06 <michaelnovakjr> i barely have to touch the server for anything
Jun 25 13:21:15 <michaelnovakjr> samething with my svn/git with trac
Jun 25 13:21:23 <michaelnovakjr> i barely have to touch that server.
Jun 25 13:21:28 <Dougie187> thats cool.
Jun 25 13:21:47 <michaelnovakjr> it takes snapshots of the repositories when new commits are entered
Jun 25 13:22:02 <michaelnovakjr> and sticks them on a tape drive :)
Jun 25 13:22:14 <Dougie187> nice
Jun 25 13:22:22 <michaelnovakjr> i get an email when space is running low.
Jun 25 13:22:30 <Dougie187> and then you fire someone?
Jun 25 13:22:33 <michaelnovakjr> and it takes care of business for me
Jun 25 13:22:58 <michaelnovakjr> it just removes older snapshots that aren't needed anymore because more recent ones have been backed up
Jun 25 13:23:49 <Dougie187> thats pretty sweet
Jun 25 13:24:03 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
Jun 25 13:24:11 <michaelnovakjr> ever used Trac?
Jun 25 13:24:17 <Dougie187> nope.
Jun 25 13:24:24 <Dougie187> just vim
Jun 25 13:25:03 <michaelnovakjr> Trac is a web-based project management tool
Jun 25 13:25:16 <michaelnovakjr> you can browse sources diffs and have a ticket system
Jun 25 13:25:24 <michaelnovakjr> as well as a wiki, roadmap and milestones
Jun 25 13:25:34 <michaelnovakjr> and a nice changelog vie
Jun 25 13:25:35 <michaelnovakjr> w
Jun 25 13:26:05 <Dougie187> thats cool
Jun 25 13:26:10 <Dougie187> i use websvn at school.
Jun 25 13:26:24 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:26:31 <Dougie187> but thats just for my homeworks
Jun 25 13:26:45 <Dougie187> then i checkout my homework when i get home and work on it here.
Jun 25 13:26:45 <michaelnovakjr> do any interesting homework?
Jun 25 13:26:48 <Dougie187> eh
Jun 25 13:27:03 <Dougie187> http://people.scs.fsu.edu/~djacobsen/websvn
Jun 25 13:27:10 <Dougie187> i think you can login with guest/guest08
Jun 25 13:27:29 <Dougie187> oh lol.
Jun 25 13:27:33 <Dougie187> i gpged most of them
Jun 25 13:27:43 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 13:27:44 <Dougie187> because there is a slacker student who would just steal homeworks from people.
Jun 25 13:27:49 <Dougie187> and he had sudo access
Jun 25 13:27:56 <Dougie187> so i gpged all of them so he couldnt take mine.
Jun 25 13:27:56 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:28:04 <dcordes> damn old slackers
Jun 25 13:28:17 <Dougie187> i know.
Jun 25 13:28:32 <Dougie187> that last homework is ODE stuff
Jun 25 13:29:04 <Dougie187> solving ODEs with a 1 step Adams-Bashforth method and a 2 step Adams-Moulton method.
Jun 25 13:29:30 <michaelnovakjr> tcl huh
Jun 25 13:29:33 <Dougie187> ...
Jun 25 13:29:35 <Dougie187> yeah...
Jun 25 13:29:42 <michaelnovakjr> wow
Jun 25 13:29:43 <Dougie187> that class sucked.
Jun 25 13:29:57 <Dougie187> and my polygon clipper doesnt work right
Jun 25 13:29:57 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:30:02 <michaelnovakjr> why tcl?
Jun 25 13:30:08 <Dougie187> vtk
Jun 25 13:30:20 <Dougie187> he gave us those scripts.
Jun 25 13:30:23 <Dougie187> we didnt have to write them
Jun 25 13:30:25 <Dougie187> just modify them
Jun 25 13:30:39 <michaelnovakjr> ah
Jun 25 13:31:22 <Dougie187> ACS1 Lab5 is also ODE stuff
Jun 25 13:31:24 <Dougie187> Orbit of the moon.
Jun 25 13:31:36 <Dougie187> using different methods again.
Jun 25 13:31:37 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:32:56 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 13:33:07 <Dougie187> ACS1 is by far the most interesting class out of those three.
Jun 25 13:33:36 <michaelnovakjr> good stuff
Jun 25 13:33:45 <Dougie187> yeh
Jun 25 13:33:50 <Dougie187> MD sucked.
Jun 25 13:33:52 <Dougie187> SciViz Sucked.
Jun 25 13:33:55 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:34:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:34:03 <Dougie187> MD was bad because the teacher didnt know anything about MD
Jun 25 13:34:10 <Dougie187> but he does MD as his research.
Jun 25 13:34:14 <Dougie187> but he didnt know how to do it.
Jun 25 13:34:18 <Dougie187> it was irritating.
Jun 25 13:34:21 <michaelnovakjr> how's that work?
Jun 25 13:34:24 <Dougie187> well.
Jun 25 13:34:29 <Dougie187> he uses a package called CharMM
Jun 25 13:34:43 <Dougie187> (Chemisty at Harvard Molecular Modeling)
Jun 25 13:34:56 <Dougie187> and it is the biggest piece of garbage i have ever seen.
Jun 25 13:35:07 <michaelnovakjr> that might explain his issues
Jun 25 13:35:11 <Dougie187> basically he just writes these tiny scripts and makes Charmm do his MD stuff
Jun 25 13:35:23 <Dougie187> but he can't write an MD program even for a simple situation
Jun 25 13:35:27 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:35:42 <Dougie187> and he doesnt know what his stuff does really.
Jun 25 13:35:49 <Dougie187> he just acts like he does.
Jun 25 13:35:59 <michaelnovakjr> gotta hate professors like that
Jun 25 13:36:09 <Dougie187> SciViz sucked because the teacher thought it was Computer Graphics for the first 3/4 of the semester.
Jun 25 13:36:18 <michaelnovakjr> haha3
Jun 25 13:36:35 <Dougie187> he was teaching us basically how to write opengl.
Jun 25 13:36:52 <Dougie187> and im like "WTF, I dont get a shit how to write open gl. I want to use it to visualize my data!"
Jun 25 13:36:54 <michaelnovakjr> for what purpose?
Jun 25 13:36:56 <Dougie187> but he didnt get that.
Jun 25 13:37:17 <Dougie187> just so we know how to write the next generation of Visualization software packages.
Jun 25 13:37:20 <Dougie187> like Amira and stuff.
Jun 25 13:37:25 <Dougie187> OpenGL, VTK
Jun 25 13:37:28 <Dougie187> all those things.
Jun 25 13:37:56 <michaelnovakjr> hm
Jun 25 13:38:00 <Dougie187> he didnt read the Syllabus.
Jun 25 13:38:05 <michaelnovakjr> ha
Jun 25 13:38:06 <michaelnovakjr> ha
Jun 25 13:38:14 <michaelnovakjr> wasn't he the one who wrote it?
Jun 25 13:38:27 <Dougie187> if he had, he would have understood that we were supposed to learn how to use those packages, and apply their techniques to the data we had and visualize it in a meaningful manner.
Jun 25 13:38:29 <Dougie187> I would guess not
Jun 25 13:38:36 <Dougie187> i bet he stole it from the teacher from the previous year
Jun 25 13:38:46 <michaelnovakjr> haa
Jun 25 13:39:11 <Dougie187> And ACS1 was cool, because it was about different techniques for Computational scientisits.
Jun 25 13:39:22 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:39:29 <Dougie187> like doing Numerical Calculus, and Error checking, and ODE Solving.
Jun 25 13:39:31 <Dougie187> stuff like that
Jun 25 13:39:59 <michaelnovakjr> sounds like interesting stuff
Jun 25 13:40:05 <Dougie187> yeah it was really cool.
Jun 25 13:40:10 <Dougie187> i enjoyed it a lot
Jun 25 13:40:17 <Dougie187> but most of the students slept through it
Jun 25 13:40:18 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:40:24 <Dougie187> or didnt come.
Jun 25 13:40:27 <Dougie187> like that slacker kid
Jun 25 13:40:41 <Dougie187> makes it rather frustrating.
Jun 25 13:43:38 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:43:47 <michaelnovakjr> some people are just stupid
Jun 25 13:44:31 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 13:44:33 <Dougie187> and lazy asses
Jun 25 13:44:43 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 25 13:44:52 <Dougie187> i hate lazy asses.
Jun 25 13:45:00 <michaelnovakjr> me too
Jun 25 13:45:00 <Dougie187> there were about 30 of them this last term too
Jun 25 13:45:01 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:45:22 <Dougie187> 1st year grad students here, have to do 1 year of technical support work.
Jun 25 13:45:32 <Dougie187> and me and one other guy were the only two who did anything.
Jun 25 13:45:49 <michaelnovakjr> figured
Jun 25 13:45:55 <Dougie187> everyone else was foreign, so their advisors said they didnt have to do anything because they couldnt understand the instructions.
Jun 25 13:45:57 <michaelnovakjr> what kind of technical support?
Jun 25 13:46:24 <Dougie187> depends who you worked for. but i supported servers, helped maintain the machine room, and set up desktop systems.
Jun 25 13:46:35 <Dougie187> as well as fixing various problems on the servers and desktops.
Jun 25 13:46:47 <michaelnovakjr> not a bad gig
Jun 25 13:46:49 <Dougie187> one student, had to run network cables and preform cable management on servers.
Jun 25 13:46:51 <Dougie187> but they wouldnt do it.
Jun 25 13:47:00 <Dougie187> because they couldnt understand what their boss was telling them.
Jun 25 13:47:05 <Dougie187> so i had to do that.
Jun 25 13:47:08 <michaelnovakjr> that is crazy
Jun 25 13:47:17 <michaelnovakjr> then how can they understand their professors?
Jun 25 13:47:23 <Dougie187> the other guy who did a lot of stuff helped me, but had to create a PHP interface to the Ldap server.
Jun 25 13:47:27 <Dougie187> lol, i dont know
Jun 25 13:47:33 <Dougie187> i think its more the boss was lazy then the student though
Jun 25 13:47:42 <Dougie187> the bosses gave up
Jun 25 13:47:52 <Dougie187> and then gave me and the other guy more work to do.
Jun 25 13:47:56 <Dougie187> so i was pissed
Jun 25 13:48:19 <Dougie187> but luckily i was the only person who got an excellent yearly review
Jun 25 13:48:20 <michaelnovakjr> that sucks
Jun 25 13:48:31 <Dougie187> everyone else got "Ok" or "Poor - Bad"
Jun 25 13:48:45 <michaelnovakjr> i would do grad school if i could afford the time to do it
Jun 25 13:49:07 <Dougie187> well, its cool because we get assistantships.
Jun 25 13:49:13 <Dougie187> so they pay for school, + they give us a stipend.
Jun 25 13:49:22 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:49:41 <Dougie187> but you have kids dont you?
Jun 25 13:49:52 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Jun 25 13:49:58 <Dougie187> oh, how old are you?
Jun 25 13:50:12 <michaelnovakjr> 22
Jun 25 13:50:19 <Dougie187> lol i thought you were older then that.
Jun 25 13:50:24 <Dougie187> you should totally go for it.
Jun 25 13:50:29 <Dougie187> are you married?
Jun 25 13:50:32 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 13:50:38 <michaelnovakjr> but i make too much money
Jun 25 13:50:59 <michaelnovakjr> wife just started as a school teacher
Jun 25 13:51:07 <michaelnovakjr> so its tough
Jun 25 13:51:09 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 25 13:51:15 <Dougie187> well maybe your job will pay for some of it
Jun 25 13:51:58 <Dougie187> what would you go for?
Jun 25 13:52:05 <michaelnovakjr> i'd want to not work for it
Jun 25 13:52:12 <michaelnovakjr> engineering
Jun 25 13:52:20 <Dougie187> any specific type of engineering?
Jun 25 13:52:29 <michaelnovakjr> computer
Jun 25 13:52:46 <Dougie187> are there any good engineering schools up there?
Jun 25 13:53:15 <michaelnovakjr> not really anything spectacular
Jun 25 13:53:50 <Dougie187> my alma mater is trying to get in the top 25 for Engineering.
Jun 25 13:53:55 <Dougie187> their Engineering program is huge though
Jun 25 13:54:05 <Dougie187> and they have like the coolest building for EECS
Jun 25 13:54:19 <michaelnovakjr> what school?
Jun 25 13:54:24 <Dougie187> Oregon State
Jun 25 13:54:34 <Dougie187> www.orst.edu
Jun 25 13:54:35 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:54:35 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 25 13:54:42 <Dougie187> its quite a ways away from you though
Jun 25 13:54:49 <michaelnovakjr> i'd say :)
Jun 25 13:54:55 <Dougie187> did you just graduate?
Jun 25 13:55:18 <michaelnovakjr> last year
Jun 25 13:55:24 <michaelnovakjr> i'd been working though
Jun 25 13:55:35 <Dougie187> well, you if you have any interest in it, you should take your GRE soon, and get References.
Jun 25 13:55:39 <michaelnovakjr> last two years i went at night
Jun 25 13:55:42 <Dougie187> just so you have them in the future.
Jun 25 13:56:01 <michaelnovakjr> its a good idea
Jun 25 13:56:31 <Dougie187> I went to a seminar on grad school and they said that if you have any interest in it, before you get too far out of school you should apply to just 1 college for grad school.
Jun 25 13:56:38 <Dougie187> that way you have all the stuff ready when you need to apply for real
Jun 25 13:56:56 <michaelnovakjr> not a bad idea
Jun 25 13:58:24 <Dougie187> most colleges too, have a career center that you can have your letters of recommendation sent to, and they will hold them
Jun 25 13:58:32 <Dougie187> (because hardly ever will a professor give you a copy of it)
Jun 25 13:58:38 <michaelnovakjr> haha.
Jun 25 13:58:42 <Dougie187> and then you can call them and they will send it for oyu
Jun 25 13:58:50 <Dougie187> incase your professor dies or something
Jun 25 13:58:54 <Dougie187> that way you still have access to it
Jun 25 13:59:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 13:59:05 <michaelnovakjr> that's a good point
Jun 25 13:59:13 <Dougie187> one of my old professors had that happen to her.
Jun 25 13:59:24 <michaelnovakjr> damn
Jun 25 13:59:26 <Dougie187> and the director of the program had to break into the dead guys office to get the letter.
Jun 25 13:59:27 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 13:59:42 <michaelnovakjr> hqah
Jun 25 14:01:49 <Dougie187> well. i think i need to be going.
Jun 25 14:02:34 <Dougie187> bbl
Jun 25 14:33:04 <dcordes> somebody got a htc kaiser?
Jun 25 14:44:55 <dcordes> does somebody know what amss version the kernel people have on halibut?
Jun 25 14:45:28 <dcordes> where's swetland san etc when you need them ^^
Jun 25 14:55:13 <michaelnovakjr> they aren't in here
Jun 25 14:55:23 <michaelnovakjr> this channel isn't for installing hacked android
Jun 25 14:56:43 <dcordes> michaelnovakjr: where is the channel for installed hacked android?
Jun 25 14:56:54 <michaelnovakjr> no idea
Jun 25 14:56:56 <dcordes> I can actually make and receive calls, it is a WELL hacked android
Jun 25 14:57:01 <dcordes> !
Jun 25 14:57:04 <michaelnovakjr> i have that version
Jun 25 14:57:08 <michaelnovakjr> its not all that great
Jun 25 14:57:14 <dcordes> what version?
Jun 25 14:57:28 <michaelnovakjr> the haret android package for win mobile
Jun 25 14:57:34 <dcordes> huh?
Jun 25 14:57:39 <michaelnovakjr> making and receiving calls is all you can do with it
Jun 25 14:57:43 <michaelnovakjr> there isn't any software
Jun 25 14:57:48 <dcordes> michaelnovakjr: on what phone?
Jun 25 14:57:49 <michaelnovakjr> its just the emulator sdk os
Jun 25 14:57:52 <michaelnovakjr> htc touch
Jun 25 14:57:57 <dcordes> is that vogue?
Jun 25 14:58:00 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 25 14:58:03 <dcordes> touch is one of the marketing names
Jun 25 14:58:08 <michaelnovakjr> it drains the battery in an hour as well
Jun 25 14:58:18 <dcordes> ah I see. yea it's great. the kernel is perfectly dzo did a great job here.
Jun 25 14:58:27 <michaelnovakjr> its not that great
Jun 25 14:58:30 <dcordes> you can even use network right?
Jun 25 14:58:37 <michaelnovakjr> yes, but there's no software
Jun 25 14:58:43 <michaelnovakjr> only a browser and maps
Jun 25 14:58:49 <michaelnovakjr> and you can't save data
Jun 25 14:58:53 <dcordes> ah come on dzo spent a lot of free time porting the google msm kernel tree to the vogue!
Jun 25 14:59:03 <dcordes> yea we have no storage yet on the htcs
Jun 25 14:59:09 <dcordes> mmc driver isn't working yet
Jun 25 14:59:16 <michaelnovakjr> i understand that, but you can't do anything much with i
Jun 25 14:59:17 <michaelnovakjr> t
Jun 25 14:59:26 <michaelnovakjr> its neat for about five minutes and that's about it
Jun 25 14:59:29 <dcordes> :)
Jun 25 14:59:47 <michaelnovakjr> definitely has its issues
Jun 25 14:59:58 <michaelnovakjr> when receiving calls sometimes the phone freaks out and freezes
Jun 25 15:00:08 <michaelnovakjr> you can't see battery life or get and updated time either
Jun 25 15:01:05 <dcordes> did you try the latest kernel image and ramdisk image he release a few days ago?
Jun 25 15:01:56 <michaelnovakjr> nope, there's no software available so the usage isn't what i need
Jun 25 15:02:18 <michaelnovakjr> once you can actually run applications on it that do stuff it'll get more use
Jun 25 15:02:24 <michaelnovakjr> for now i am sticking with my treo
Jun 25 15:03:05 <michaelnovakjr> are you a developer?
Jun 25 15:04:36 <dcordes> not a professional one
Jun 25 15:05:00 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean?
Jun 25 15:05:12 <dcordes> I don't work as developer
Jun 25 15:05:57 <michaelnovakjr> are you developing for android?
Jun 25 15:05:58 <dcordes> I'm helping the real pros port the google msm kernel to htc kaiser and vice versa
Jun 25 15:06:09 <dcordes> no
Jun 25 15:06:12 <dcordes> kernel
Jun 25 15:06:25 <dcordes> not android applications
Jun 25 15:06:40 <michaelnovakjr> who are the real pros?
Jun 25 15:07:05 <dcordes> the android rootfs does a lot of magic that's required to make the audio and AT communication between arm9 and arm11 work so I will dive into it
Jun 25 15:07:05 <michaelnovakjr> you do know that the device will be supported
Jun 25 15:07:27 <dcordes> michaelnovakjr: kaiser?
Jun 25 15:07:41 <dcordes> dzo is one of the real pros
Jun 25 15:08:54 <dcordes> michaelnovakjr: you mean google will officially support the kaiser?
Jun 25 15:08:58 <dcordes> they'd eat our code :)
Jun 25 15:09:05 <michaelnovakjr> eat your code?
Jun 25 15:09:58 <dcordes> yes, as in merege our modifications that enable to run the google msm tree on our htc devices
Jun 25 15:10:26 <dcordes> like vogue, niki, kaiser, titan, polaris  and friends
Jun 25 15:10:35 <michaelnovakjr> i'm familiar with the kernel, i just think its a waste of time to dev for anything related to android at the moment
Jun 25 15:11:02 <dcordes> well the linux kernel is the linux kernel. Your choice what you run on top of it...
Jun 25 15:11:37 <michaelnovakjr> but seeing as android is still NDA..
Jun 25 15:12:27 <dcordes> I'm no big fan of android out of that reason.
Jun 25 15:12:43 <dcordes> still I like how fast and sexy the gui is
Jun 25 15:12:59 <michaelnovakjr> and you forgot to mention outdated
Jun 25 15:13:05 <dcordes> regarding those two parameters, it fucks every open source backend around
Jun 25 15:13:13 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 25 15:13:27 <dcordes> look at openmoko qtopia and so on
Jun 25 15:13:40 <dcordes> they don't even come close to usability and speed of the android ui
Jun 25 15:14:29 <michaelnovakjr> what part of the kernel are you working on
Jun 25 15:14:35 <dcordes> *
Jun 25 15:14:48 <dcordes> mostly the msm specific stuff
Jun 25 15:14:59 <michaelnovakjr> which is..
Jun 25 15:15:11 <dcordes> just look at our tree ok?
Jun 25 15:15:17 <michaelnovakjr> where is it
Jun 25 15:15:27 <dcordes> one second
Jun 25 15:15:43 <dcordes> http://git.linuxtogo.org/?p=groups/mobile-linux/kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/htc-msm
Jun 25 15:16:06 <dcordes> the latest changes to the smd code that make phone on the msm7200 htcs work will hit the git tomorrow
Jun 25 15:16:53 <dcordes> needs some cleanup
Jun 25 15:17:06 <michaelnovakjr> have you committed anything?
Jun 25 15:17:18 <dcordes> I'm luke
Jun 25 15:19:52 <dcordes> next goals are mmc and bluetooth
Jun 25 15:23:17 <michaelnovakjr> if you aren't a pro developer what do you do?
Jun 25 15:24:00 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: I just finished school
Jun 25 15:24:20 <michaelnovakjr> where'd you attend?
Jun 25 15:25:11 <dcordes_> grammar school
Jun 25 15:28:03 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: what about you? What are you doing and what's your connection with android?
Jun 25 15:28:44 <michaelnovakjr> i work full time as a developer, and i am developing applications for android
Jun 25 15:29:13 <dcordes_> cool. did you participate in the 50 billion dollar contest?
Jun 25 15:29:31 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 15:30:17 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: so did you win something? :)
Jun 25 15:31:19 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Jun 25 15:32:26 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: what applications do you work on/did you make?
Jun 25 15:32:49 <michaelnovakjr> i worked on weatherphone
Jun 25 15:33:13 <michaelnovakjr> i am working on a few others that haven't been released because development stopped until an updated SDK is out
Jun 25 15:33:39 <dcordes_> ok cool keep it up. I hope the whole dalvik thing will be open sourced one day
Jun 25 15:34:05 <michaelnovakjr> it all depends
Jun 25 15:34:15 <michaelnovakjr> we already know not everything will be open source
Jun 25 15:34:16 <dcordes_> I like the kernel very much still :)
Jun 25 15:35:23 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: did you see that input method which won $$?
Jun 25 15:35:32 <michaelnovakjr> what was the name of it
Jun 25 15:36:07 <dcordes_> hmm no idea I saw it on some news website. You can jus slide around an on screen keyboad in order to type
Jun 25 15:36:30 <michaelnovakjr> haven't seen i
Jun 25 15:36:31 <michaelnovakjr> t
Jun 25 15:36:49 <michaelnovakjr> i'm working on a cross-platform diff utility for linux/windows
Jun 25 15:37:20 <michaelnovakjr> i hate the fact windows users can't open a linux diff in a GUI
Jun 25 15:37:22 <dcordes_> why not using patch in cygwin?
Jun 25 15:37:39 <michaelnovakjr> some people i work with like GUI apps for their diffs
Jun 25 15:37:40 <dcordes_> or try microsoft visual patch 2009 professional edition for vista :D
Jun 25 15:37:58 <michaelnovakjr> does the visual patch app read linux diffs?
Jun 25 15:37:59 <dcordes_> I also do sometimes I use kdiff3
Jun 25 15:38:11 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: sorry I was just trying to be funny
Jun 25 15:38:20 <michaelnovakjr> thought so
Jun 25 15:38:22 <dcordes_> about the visual patch ^^
Jun 25 15:38:36 <michaelnovakjr> i hate microsoft
Jun 25 15:38:45 <michaelnovakjr> i don't usually follow their product lines unless i have to :)
Jun 25 15:39:06 <dcordes_> don't gotta tell me. that's the reason I got a kaiser
Jun 25 15:39:22 <dcordes_> a nice device always deserves linux support
Jun 25 15:39:24 <michaelnovakjr> i don't use my htc phone yet
Jun 25 15:39:33 <dcordes_> the vogue?
Jun 25 15:39:37 <michaelnovakjr> waiting for android.... i'm still using my treo
Jun 25 15:39:38 <michaelnovakjr> yep
Jun 25 15:40:47 <dcordes_> I'm really impressed how quick android is
Jun 25 15:40:59 <michaelnovakjr> yea, it runs fast...
Jun 25 15:41:06 <michaelnovakjr> but its also not running any apps :)
Jun 25 15:41:24 <dcordes_> you mean on your vogue?
Jun 25 15:42:03 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 15:43:20 <dcordes_> I think you can easily put stuff in
Jun 25 15:43:28 <dcordes_> do you know how you extract and repack the initrd?
Jun 25 15:43:33 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 15:43:40 <dcordes_> ok
Jun 25 15:43:44 <michaelnovakjr> i meant that its really really fast because no user apps are on it.
Jun 25 15:43:50 <dcordes_> aah gotcha
Jun 25 15:44:02 <dcordes_> well to my understanding, any count of apps wouldn't matter
Jun 25 15:44:33 <dcordes_> because android uses nice process management that makes the background stuff not spend resources
Jun 25 15:46:59 <michaelnovakjr> i'm sure the process management is nice, but the kernel can only do so much :)
Jun 25 15:48:04 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: ramdisk is the limiting paramter there
Jun 25 15:48:18 <dcordes_> as you know there's no storage yet so we are working entirely from the ram
Jun 25 15:48:32 <michaelnovakjr> i meant when android is officially released
Jun 25 15:49:12 <dcordes_> I'm looking forward to the next release where you can drag the desktop around and so
Jun 25 15:49:19 <dcordes_> will be useful on a qvga device
Jun 25 15:50:07 <michaelnovakjr> i just want a new sdk so i can continue developing
Jun 25 15:51:20 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr: can't you just continue with the current one?
Jun 25 15:51:59 <michaelnovakjr> apparently the changes are very significant
Jun 25 15:52:27 <dcordes_> I can't imagine THEY will break the work of all of you people
Jun 25 15:52:44 <dcordes_> anyway gotta run, bye
Jun 25 15:52:45 <michaelnovakjr> uh, sure they will
Jun 25 15:52:53 <michaelnovakjr> they have already said that
Jun 25 15:54:14 <jasta> yawn
Jun 25 15:54:21 <michaelnovakjr> howdy
Jun 25 15:54:53 <jasta> dcordes_: they have already admitted that, moving forward, APIs will change, new features will be introduced, etc.
Jun 25 15:55:14 <michaelnovakjr> he's one of those kernel hackers
Jun 25 15:55:30 <jasta> and we have no forewarning as to how much, what those features might be, etc.  how can an engineer work under those conditions?
Jun 25 15:55:40 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 16:02:10 <jasta> also, the biggest problem for me is that there are huge bugs in a particular area i need to work :)
Jun 25 16:02:24 <jasta> and still a lot of confusion as to how GTalk will fit in for alerts.
Jun 25 16:02:24 <michaelnovakjr> me too
Jun 25 16:02:35 <michaelnovakjr> yea, they haven't expanded on that yet
Jun 25 16:02:48 <jasta> there are just plain too damn many unknowns to comfortably move forward.
Jun 25 16:03:04 <jasta> bbl
Jun 25 16:03:23 <michaelnovakjr> later
Jun 25 16:13:01 <jasta> back ;)
Jun 25 16:13:11 <michaelnovakjr> quick
Jun 25 16:13:33 <jasta> something really weird happened last night
Jun 25 16:13:38 <jasta> and now both my eyes are bloodshot :)
Jun 25 16:13:46 <jasta> like a popped simultaneous blood vessels
Jun 25 16:13:54 <michaelnovakjr> weird
Jun 25 16:13:56 <jasta> i*
Jun 25 16:14:02 <michaelnovakjr> does your work think its drugs?
Jun 25 16:14:19 <jasta> yeah, and looking at it makes me very aware of it, so i feel like my eyes "hurt" :)
Jun 25 16:14:56 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 16:15:01 <michaelnovakjr> funny how that works huh?
Jun 25 16:15:12 <michaelnovakjr> your eyes associate that view with pain
Jun 25 16:15:33 <michaelnovakjr> so your brain doesn't know the difference and its like oh yea... ouch that does hurt :)
Jun 25 16:15:38 <jasta> right, but of course they don't, since there is no ability to feel pain in a bloodshot eye :)
Jun 25 16:15:44 <michaelnovakjr> yea :)
Jun 25 16:15:47 <Smoke_Screen> Hey, need some help please
Jun 25 16:15:50 <jasta> when i think of very sharp objects
Jun 25 16:15:53 <jasta> like a long thing blade
Jun 25 16:15:59 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 16:16:02 <jasta> it makes the back of my legs hurt, where they bend...
Jun 25 16:16:12 <yakischloba> wierdo
Jun 25 16:16:16 <Smoke_Screen> Trying to use intents to launch my app when a bittorrent file is clicked on in the browser
Jun 25 16:16:19 <michaelnovakjr> yea... i am reading an interesting book on the brain
Jun 25 16:16:32 <jasta> and i imagine, without control, that the little tenden connecting your leg there is being cut, as with scissors or something
Jun 25 16:16:41 <jasta> Smoke_Screen: can't be done currently.
Jun 25 16:17:12 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i saw this really fascinating program on phantom limbs once
Jun 25 16:17:15 <Smoke_Screen> jasta: serious, damn thought I was close
Jun 25 16:17:22 <michaelnovakjr> yea, jasta
Jun 25 16:17:26 <jasta> this man complained for years that his left hand ached, though he had lost his entirely left arm.
Jun 25 16:17:30 <michaelnovakjr> the phantom theory is amazing
Jun 25 16:17:35 <jasta> scientists devised a way to cure him, that worked.
Jun 25 16:17:46 <Smoke_Screen> jasta: that I was just missing something
Jun 25 16:17:58 <jasta> they constructed this booth with mirrors on the side, so he would sit in it, and put his right arm in a hole
Jun 25 16:18:02 <michaelnovakjr> you can actually run a test similiar to the phantom theory but it doesn't require you to have lost anything
Jun 25 16:18:04 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 16:18:06 <jasta> the mirror would make it seem as though he had a left arm if he looked to his left
Jun 25 16:18:10 <michaelnovakjr> i've seen that before
Jun 25 16:18:15 <jasta> then, he simply did some basic exercises with his right arm, looking at his left
Jun 25 16:18:18 <jasta> and he claims it cured him
Jun 25 16:18:33 <Smoke_Screen> jasta: Thanks, that's a waste of a day
Jun 25 16:18:55 <jasta> Smoke_Screen: yup, and i bet it's probably possible in the next SDK too.  which has no known release date, yay! :)
Jun 25 16:19:13 <michaelnovakjr> Smoke_Screen, basically go on vacation until the next sdk
Jun 25 16:19:41 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, there's an experiment where a blind man was able to see using his tongue to transmit images from a lens
Jun 25 16:19:55 <Smoke_Screen> jasta: well I am go to the States in September but my final year project is due in November so wanted it done with by then
Jun 25 16:20:02 <yakischloba> michaelnovakjr: i have heard jasta mention that everyone is sitting around until next SDK. have the current possibilities already been exhausted, is that it?
Jun 25 16:20:09 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: wow.
Jun 25 16:20:23 <michaelnovakjr> yakischloba, google has stated that the new sdk will break current apps
Jun 25 16:20:32 <yakischloba> Oh.
Jun 25 16:20:44 <michaelnovakjr> yea jasta, the claim is that the brain only sees a certain type of pattern
Jun 25 16:20:45 <jasta> yakischloba: no, the current SDK is just really buggy, and Google has already gone chopping away at it, changing things, adding new features, etc.  None of which is being publicly disclosed.
Jun 25 16:20:55 <yakischloba> thoroughly useless.
Jun 25 16:21:05 <michaelnovakjr> and that the inputs from your touch and sight are not different and can be routed.
Jun 25 16:21:16 <jasta> yakischloba: if you're curious, the ADC winners are under NDA with Google and as such are given access to the newest versions.
Jun 25 16:21:28 <michaelnovakjr> the stimulation in the visual area is seeing activity where the sense of touch normally would
Jun 25 16:21:31 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: like an APIC, hehe, neat.
Jun 25 16:21:42 <yakischloba> jasta: I take it you are not one of them? :(
Jun 25 16:21:45 <michaelnovakjr> yea, and how they say blind people have acute hearing
Jun 25 16:21:59 <jasta> yakischloba: nope, i'm not, though we have some that are in this channel.  that is why we know that bit of news.
Jun 25 16:22:05 <jasta> since Google of course has not announced anything
Jun 25 16:22:24 <yakischloba> jasta: I figured you would be, being the bright little sunbeam that you are.
Jun 25 16:22:56 <jasta> there's no need for sarcasm :)
Jun 25 16:23:15 <michaelnovakjr> :) yea its not his fault.... its google's yakischloba
Jun 25 16:23:19 <jasta> though if you are curious, my project is hosted at five.googlecode.com
Jun 25 16:25:06 <yakischloba> haha. I'm just here to hang out and keep track of whats going on. I'm a ruby nerd, I doubt I could ever be proficient in a 'real' language ;)
Jun 25 16:25:24 <michaelnovakjr> haha yea probably not.... ruby is annoying
Jun 25 16:25:31 <michaelnovakjr> no offense :)
Jun 25 16:25:49 <michaelnovakjr> i just hate those ruby guys who think their work is perfect and that all bugs are intentional features
Jun 25 16:25:53 <yakischloba> at some point I had aspirations of learning Java and coding android apps but I think it would require me to sink way more time into it than would be worth it
Jun 25 16:26:18 <yakischloba> and by the time I produced anything useful, 10 other people would have written the same app way better
Jun 25 16:26:21 <michaelnovakjr> well, you should do yourself a favor and get off the ruby kick!
Jun 25 16:27:25 <yakischloba> heh. well I have no formal education in programming so really i'm just a script junkie. I have however, had an easier understanding other languages when I encounter, since learning ruby
Jun 25 16:27:34 <Dougie187> its not that hard.
Jun 25 16:27:47 <michaelnovakjr> programming isn't hard
Jun 25 16:27:57 <michaelnovakjr> its rocket science :)
Jun 25 16:28:00 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 16:28:02 <michaelnovakjr> not really though
Jun 25 16:28:07 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 16:28:11 <yakischloba> Comes easier for some than others, thats for sure.
Jun 25 16:28:17 <Dougie187> good thing rocket science is easy!
Jun 25 16:28:23 <Dougie187> well you know how to write scripts.
Jun 25 16:28:37 <Dougie187> you have at least a little experience.
Jun 25 16:29:15 <michaelnovakjr> that can be bad though
Jun 25 16:29:21 <yakischloba> yeah. definitely.
Jun 25 16:29:25 <michaelnovakjr> scripting i have some problems with
Jun 25 16:30:05 <yakischloba> Ruby lets you get away with all kinds of retarded stuff that won't fly other places.
Jun 25 16:30:11 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 25 16:31:25 <yakischloba> shrug. its allowing me to produce results for the time being.
Jun 25 16:31:27 <Dougie187> but at least your on the right track.
Jun 25 16:31:36 <Dougie187> and there are tons of tutorials online for most languages.
Jun 25 16:31:39 <yakischloba> (and getting me paid.)
Jun 25 16:33:06 <yakischloba> Yeah. its hard to find the time in the day to put into learning something whos return is a long ways off.
Jun 25 16:33:31 <michaelnovakjr> i do it all the time :)
Jun 25 16:33:43 <michaelnovakjr> i'm always learning something new
Jun 25 16:33:54 <jasta> yakischloba: don't use lack of education as a crutch.
Jun 25 16:34:19 <yakischloba> -_-
Jun 25 16:35:18 <jasta> CS programs are hardly responsible for delivering formal programming training.
Jun 25 16:35:30 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 16:35:37 <yakischloba> I have a hard time settling on what I should spend my little free time learning. Java? (bias here maybe)
Jun 25 16:35:50 <Dougie187> most of them dont have the interpersonal communication skills to deliver it very well.
Jun 25 16:35:55 <jasta> yakischloba: You're thinking about the problem all wrong.
Jun 25 16:35:58 <dcordes_> jasta: 17:54 < jasta> dcordes_: they have already admitted that, moving forward, APIs will change, new features will be introduced, etc. <- does that mean you'll have to revisit all kinds of stuff that were made for the current version of the sdk?
Jun 25 16:36:00 <michaelnovakjr> you have to keep learning in the computer industry
Jun 25 16:36:16 <michaelnovakjr> dcordes_: absolutely yes
Jun 25 16:36:20 <Dougie187> yakischloba: it doesnt matter. just learn something.
Jun 25 16:36:21 <jasta> dcordes_: presumably, yes, but as i said they have clarified nothing on the order of scope or scale.
Jun 25 16:36:44 <jasta> yakischloba: don't focus on language X or Y, or toolchain Z.  Just think of something you want that doesn't exist.
Jun 25 16:36:46 <michaelnovakjr> that is what you get when developing for a platform still in development itself
Jun 25 16:36:48 <jasta> Or something that does which should be better.
Jun 25 16:36:53 <Dougie187> once you learn one language its really easy to convert another language.
Jun 25 16:36:53 <jasta> Then learn waht is appropriate to make that possible.
Jun 25 16:37:03 <dcordes_> jasta: michaelnovakjr: at least you can't complain since you did it for cash :D
Jun 25 16:37:17 <jasta> For example, I have been programming C for 10 years, and picked up Java simply to tackle my Android project.
Jun 25 16:37:26 <jasta> dcordes_: But I didn't do it for cash.
Jun 25 16:37:35 <yakischloba> Sure. I suppose it would help a lot to be around other computer people. I think that would be more conducive to learning than my current solo gig.
Jun 25 16:37:48 <jasta> dcordes_: For the record, my app is one of the *VERY* few open source Android apps out there.
Jun 25 16:38:08 <jasta> yakischloba: Nope, probably not.  You're just making lame excuses.
Jun 25 16:38:13 <michaelnovakjr> yea my stuff is all open source
Jun 25 16:38:16 <yakischloba> haha. ok.
Jun 25 16:38:17 <jasta> If you aren't interested in building something, just use that excuse :)
Jun 25 16:38:33 <michaelnovakjr> dcordes_: i don't plan to charge anything for my apps on android
Jun 25 16:38:54 <yakischloba> I'll tug my panties out of my gash and be cranking out amazing code tomorrow morning.
Jun 25 16:39:45 <Dougie187> michaelnovakjr: are you going to complete your project?
Jun 25 16:39:47 <dcordes_> I was just alluding to the rewards :)
Jun 25 16:39:47 <Dougie187> or is it over?
Jun 25 16:40:14 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187, the weatherphone is dead six feet under
Jun 25 16:40:27 <michaelnovakjr> i had started another one but stopped because of the sdk
Jun 25 16:40:37 <Dougie187> sad panda
Jun 25 16:41:02 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 16:41:23 <Dougie187> i havent even started writing anything yet because of the sdk issue
Jun 25 16:42:53 <michaelnovakjr> not a bad idea
Jun 25 16:43:21 <Hai-Fai> sdk issue meaning "'cause new hasn't arrived" or something else with sdk?
Jun 25 16:43:27 <jasta> dcordes_: the rewards with the ADC are merely a fortunate coincidence for me.
Jun 25 16:43:34 <jasta> i had already begun my app on Windows Mobile prior to Android :)
Jun 25 16:43:44 <dcordes_> jasta: what's your app?
Jun 25 16:43:46 <Dougie187> Hai-Fai: #1
Jun 25 16:43:50 <jasta> dcordes_: http://five.googlecode.com
Jun 25 16:46:25 <dcordes_> jasta: I prefer scp to put music on my portable devices :)
Jun 25 16:46:38 <dcordes_> looks like a nice program though
Jun 25 16:47:19 <jasta> dcordes_: i doubt very much that your approach is popular :)
Jun 25 16:47:25 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 16:47:30 <michaelnovakjr> scp.... dude why?
Jun 25 16:47:49 <Dougie187> lol i dont put music on my portable devices. but i like scp
Jun 25 16:48:09 <jasta> i dont currently put my music on my phone, or really even my laptop.
Jun 25 16:48:17 <michaelnovakjr> that's like saying i scp video to my dvr
Jun 25 16:48:17 <jasta> because it's such a lame, tedious process :)
Jun 25 16:48:31 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 16:48:32 <dcordes_> also rsync
Jun 25 16:48:42 <Dougie187> i would enjoy five for my laptop from my desktop
Jun 25 16:48:44 <jasta> dcordes_: i also am working on a Rhythmbox plugin to support my system.
Jun 25 16:48:52 <michaelnovakjr> do you even have a desktop dcordes_
Jun 25 16:48:57 <dcordes_> jasta: ah that program is for streaming?
Jun 25 16:49:03 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 25 16:49:07 <jasta> my program?  yes.
Jun 25 16:49:30 <jasta> it syncs meta data passively, then streams content on demand.
Jun 25 16:49:36 <jasta> and caches it, of course.
Jun 25 16:49:55 <Dougie187> hey jasta can the user specify the cache size?
Jun 25 16:49:55 <dcordes_> what does passively mean?
Jun 25 16:50:08 <Dougie187> behind the scenes.
Jun 25 16:50:15 <jasta> dcordes_: the meta data is synchronized on a schedule currently, away from the foreground attetion of the user.
Jun 25 16:50:32 <dcordes_> ah automagic, I see
Jun 25 16:50:35 <jasta> eventually, with GTalk, I hope to support server-side alerts, so that changes in the collection can be immediately sensed and retransmitted to the device.
Jun 25 16:50:54 <jasta> the server, of course, knows precisely when changes are made and what they are.
Jun 25 16:51:02 <jasta> the synchronization transmits only those changes
Jun 25 16:51:21 <dcordes_> jasta: are you aiming at 3g data use?
Jun 25 16:51:29 <jasta> the purpose of this is so that navigating the interface is responsive and local.  only audio playback can possibly require network function.
Jun 25 16:51:47 <jasta> dcordes_: Yes, although I have used my real Windows Mobile handset with some tools I wrote to test the system's performance under various conditions.
Jun 25 16:51:50 <jasta> including EDGE and GPRS.
Jun 25 16:51:59 <jasta> GPRS...uhh, does not work, but EDGE works fine.
Jun 25 16:52:08 <jasta> 3G works spectacularly well, typically seeing speeds twice as fast as necessary
Jun 25 16:52:13 <jasta> with only a second or two of warm-up.
Jun 25 16:52:39 <jasta> dcordes_: Five preempts the user as well.  When the current song is done downloading, but still playing, it'll prefetch the next tracks.
Jun 25 16:52:42 <Dougie187> hey jasta does the user get to specify the cache size?
Jun 25 16:53:07 <jasta> Not right now, but my ultimately goal is to use a scheme where the user can choose a size or percentage to honor as free space.
Jun 25 16:53:15 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 25 16:53:24 <jasta> So, rather than say it can use 80% of the SD card, or 1GB or something, you say it can use all *but* 10%.
Jun 25 16:53:25 <Dougie187> can a user access the cache?
Jun 25 16:53:30 <dcordes_> jasta: 128K mp3 stream works great on my kaiser with umts
Jun 25 16:53:50 <dcordes_> didn't try other streaming
Jun 25 16:53:50 <Dougie187> for instance in the rhythmbox plugin.
Jun 25 16:53:51 <jasta> I hope to implement an offline mode, when the radio is off.  So only stuff in the cache can be seen/played.
Jun 25 16:53:58 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 25 16:54:05 <jasta> Oh, for the rhythmbox plugin, no.  For the eventual FUSE approach, yes.
Jun 25 16:54:24 <jasta> i mean, it'll just be a bunch of flat files in ~/.five i imagine, so you could access it that way :)
Jun 25 16:54:37 <Dougie187> but could you just copy them?
Jun 25 16:54:54 <jasta> not directly, Rhythmbox wouldn't support this I think.
Jun 25 16:55:01 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 25 16:55:13 <jasta> but as i said, i eventually want to do a FUSE implementation to support all players
Jun 25 16:55:16 <jasta> and Mac OS X
Jun 25 16:55:26 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 16:55:29 <jasta> but its much more complicated.  it will require two components working very closely together
Jun 25 16:55:48 <jasta> a daemon that can sync the meta data and populate the FUSE mount, and then the FUSE side to actually implement what the daemon populates.
Jun 25 16:56:37 <Dougie187> have you seen how it scales with multiple clients accessing the server simultaneous?
Jun 25 16:56:40 <Dougie187> ly*
Jun 25 16:58:46 <jasta> no, but there is no reason to believe it would not work well assuming you have sufficient upstream bandwidth.
Jun 25 16:59:15 <Dougie187> define sufficient?
Jun 25 16:59:15 <jasta> the server uses libsyncml and libsoup (for HTTP), both of which are multiplexing.
Jun 25 16:59:34 <Dougie187> i mean 56k is obviously not enough.
Jun 25 16:59:40 <jasta> well, if you are streaming a 128kbit mp3 from two sources, imagine that you will need 256kbit of upstream ;)
Jun 25 16:59:55 <jasta> or rather, *to* two sources ;)
Jun 25 17:00:01 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 17:02:16 <jasta> i hope to also support FLAC and a wide range of other formats by transcoding them on-the-fly at the server.
Jun 25 17:02:44 <Dougie187> sounds pretty awesome
Jun 25 17:02:51 <Dougie187> im download Planet Earth.
Jun 25 17:03:02 <Dougie187> its super slow though.
Jun 25 17:03:02 <jasta> and it will be, once Google stops jerking us around :)
Jun 25 17:03:03 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 17:03:16 <dcordes_> Dougie187: the spinning 3d globe app?
Jun 25 17:03:17 <Dougie187> well, dont expect that to stop anytime soon.
Jun 25 17:03:25 <Dougie187> dcordes_: you mean Google Earth.
Jun 25 17:03:27 <Dougie187> and no.
Jun 25 17:03:43 <dcordes_> Dougie187: no I don't mean google earth. I mean the spinning 3d globe app.
Jun 25 17:03:47 <dcordes_> in android. one of the demos
Jun 25 17:03:55 <Dougie187> then again. i would respond no.
Jun 25 17:04:02 <Dougie187> the Discovery TV series.
Jun 25 17:10:20 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 25 17:10:23 <jasta> Dougie187: well, not suprisingly they cover Challenger and Columbia.
Jun 25 17:10:24 <jasta> so thats kinda sad
Jun 25 17:10:24 <dcordes_> Dougie187: there's no disovery tv here
Jun 25 17:10:24 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 25 17:10:25 <muthu> man on moon
Jun 25 17:10:30 <muthu> was that shot off florida?
Jun 25 17:55:44 <spykid> Haha, who was asking what Euro2008 is? - http://germany.usembassy.gov/warden/2008-06-24/index2.html
Jun 25 17:55:54 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 17:56:48 <Dougie187> ...
Jun 25 17:56:59 <Dougie187> you tend to be a day behind in ever conversation.
Jun 25 17:57:57 <Dougie187> hey jasta you around?
Jun 25 18:00:58 <Dougie187> brb
Jun 25 18:04:05 <Dougie187> back
Jun 25 18:08:00 <jasta> yeah
Jun 25 18:08:40 <muthu> yo
Jun 25 18:08:56 <muthu> jasta want to show you something
Jun 25 19:26:17 <jasta> what?
Jun 25 20:40:55 <Dougie187> (its his weiner)
Jun 25 20:40:58 <Dougie187> (look out)
Jun 25 20:41:06 <thesnark> ...what
Jun 25 20:42:22 <jasta> why, what?
Jun 25 20:42:29 <jasta> err
Jun 25 20:42:32 <jasta> i meant yea, what? :)
Jun 25 20:43:22 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 20:43:40 <michaelnovakjr> is there an issue tracker for the android kernel
Jun 25 20:45:22 <jasta> i dont think so
Jun 25 20:47:17 <jasta> but there is a mailing list, with what i imagine is very little traffic
Jun 25 20:47:23 <jasta> so its probably a good place for that
Jun 25 20:58:08 <Dougie187> lol did you get what i was talking about jasta?
Jun 25 21:12:24 <Dougie187> jasta you here?
Jun 25 21:12:32 <f00f-> nah he cut
Jun 25 21:12:40 <Dougie187> cut what?
Jun 25 21:13:26 <f00f-> g-speak broski
Jun 25 21:13:39 <Dougie187> g-speak?
Jun 25 21:13:41 <Dougie187> wtf is that?
Jun 25 21:13:52 <michaelnovakjr> google-speak>
Jun 25 21:13:54 <f00f-> forget it
Jun 25 21:13:54 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Jun 25 21:14:00 <Dougie187> f00f-: who are you?
Jun 25 21:14:05 <Dougie187> crazy ass.
Jun 25 21:17:33 <jasta> oh lord
Jun 25 21:17:45 <jasta> we're getting a new telecom provider in our Idaho office right...
Jun 25 21:17:58 <jasta> it was supposed to be all set up on Friday, but they delayed pretty significantly to July 8th
Jun 25 21:18:07 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 21:18:15 <jasta> so i called our existing provider and said "hey, delay the cancelation to July 15th" (from July 3rd)
Jun 25 21:18:16 <Dougie187> hey jasta wanna test my pptp server?
Jun 25 21:18:22 <jasta> they are "not sure if they can do that"
Jun 25 21:18:45 <jasta> and that they're going to charge us $200 to make the change, assuming they are capable.
Jun 25 21:19:00 <jasta> i have no idea what the hell they are talking about.  shutting off T-1 service?  what the fuck work do you have to do!?
Jun 25 21:19:25 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 21:19:29 <Dougie187> that sucks
Jun 25 21:20:22 <jasta> it's not like they laid the damn line
Jun 25 21:20:30 <jasta> and even if they did, its not like you'd unwire it.
Jun 25 21:29:58 <yogaboy> The emulator on my Linux box is kind of slow.  I wonder if I upgrade to 2 GHz CPU, how good will it be?
Jun 25 21:31:32 <f00f-> who knows
Jun 25 21:36:29 <yogaboy> What is the speed of CPU for ok development Android?
Jun 25 21:36:44 <f00f-> i clock my laptop at around 1.60 GHz
Jun 25 21:36:45 <f00f-> and it's usable
Jun 25 21:36:48 <Dougie187> isnt there a system requirements?
Jun 25 21:38:39 <Dougie187> http://code.google.com/android/intro/installing.html#developmentrequirements
Jun 25 21:39:29 <yogaboy> I don't have "Open run dialog" menu in my eclipse, althought I installed the Android JDT.  How come?
Jun 25 21:40:09 <f00f-> you have it
Jun 25 21:40:16 <f00f-> go into the java perspective
Jun 25 21:40:26 <f00f-> and it's not a menu buddy, it's in the Run menu
Jun 25 21:41:35 <yogaboy> f00f-: I am in Java EE  perspective. but I don't have "Open run dialog"
Jun 25 21:41:57 <f00f-> what do you have
Jun 25 21:41:59 <f00f-> that is similar
Jun 25 21:44:56 <yogaboy> I just have "Run" Ctrl-F11 and "Debug" F11 etc, but not "Open Run Dialog".
Jun 25 21:51:54 <yogaboy> f00f-: Do you emulator respond ok?
Jun 25 21:57:59 <f00f-> it's ok
Jun 25 21:58:00 <f00f-> not perfect
Jun 25 21:58:06 <f00f-> click runthen
Jun 25 21:58:10 <f00f-> Click Run
Jun 25 21:58:15 <f00f-> create new launch config
Jun 25 21:58:16 <f00f-> for android
Jun 25 21:59:40 <yogaboy> f00f-: How long it take for your emulator to start the Hello World?
Jun 25 21:59:56 <f00f-> emulator boots in around 3-5 minutes
Jun 25 22:00:05 <f00f-> hello world starts in about 5 seconds
Jun 25 22:01:38 <yogaboy> Does anyone had a 2GHz CPU, and how long is it to start the emulator and the Hello World?
Jun 25 22:02:17 <jasta> yogaboy: the emulator is miserably slow, even on fast hardware.  though, for some reason it does seem to perform better on macs.
Jun 25 22:04:04 <f00f-> i have a 2.13 GHz CPU that runs the emulator
Jun 25 22:04:10 <f00f-> but i step it down to 1.60 due to heat issues
Jun 25 22:04:12 <yogaboy> My emulator is just show the giant moving rad dot, I guess it's still starting up.
Jun 25 22:04:18 <f00f-> i also have ran it on a Cure Duo
Jun 25 22:04:23 <f00f-> at around 1.8 or so
Jun 25 22:04:25 <michaelnovakjr> i have a 2.8 dual core with 4gigs of ram and the emulator is slow
Jun 25 22:04:26 <f00f-> and runs bloody fast
Jun 25 22:04:29 <f00f-> too fast for comfort
Jun 25 22:05:15 <yogaboy> michaelnovakjr: How fast is your Hello World?
Jun 25 22:05:28 <michaelnovakjr> what do you mean?
Jun 25 22:05:34 <michaelnovakjr> its just a string
Jun 25 22:05:45 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 22:05:55 <f00f-> hahahhahahaha
Jun 25 22:05:55 <f00f-> rofl
Jun 25 22:06:04 <yogaboy> How long it take's to start Hello World after the emulator started?
Jun 25 22:06:12 <f00f-> dude it takes 5 seconds
Jun 25 22:06:15 <f00f-> is that too long to wait?
Jun 25 22:06:17 <michaelnovakjr> it starts right away
Jun 25 22:06:34 <michaelnovakjr> it calls one ui file and loads 'just one' string
Jun 25 22:06:45 <michaelnovakjr> its the emulator that can take awhile to boot
Jun 25 22:06:54 <f00f-> he understands that
Jun 25 22:07:03 <f00f-> well HW proabyl takes 1-2 sce
Jun 25 22:07:13 <yogaboy> I am still looking at the red gient dot move on the emulator.
Jun 25 22:07:23 <f00f-> shit, apps on my symbian phone take more time to start than on the emulator
Jun 25 22:07:32 <f00f-> yofaboy
Jun 25 22:07:34 <jasta> yogaboy: if you're curious, invoke the emulator with -verbose
Jun 25 22:07:50 <jasta> it pipes the kernels output to stdout
Jun 25 22:07:53 <michaelnovakjr> yogaboy: if you try to catch the red dot it might stop loading and show you the app :)
Jun 25 22:07:57 <f00f-> it's still booting yogaboy
Jun 25 22:08:32 <yogaboy> f00f-: Yes, it still booting.
Jun 25 22:09:01 <michaelnovakjr> yogaboy: you are trying this on linux
Jun 25 22:09:21 * jasta coughs and reminds yogaboy to use -verbose
Jun 25 22:09:39 <yogaboy> michaelnovakjr: Yes, I am using OpenSuse 11 on 1.3 GHZ CPU.
Jun 25 22:10:16 <michaelnovakjr> oh ew opensuse, its probably some microsoft code Novell slipped in your machine
Jun 25 22:10:17 <yogaboy> Ah, I see it now, my Hello Wold finally show up!
Jun 25 22:10:21 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 22:10:28 <f00f-> bro, dont go there
Jun 25 22:10:29 <michaelnovakjr> now don't turn the emulator off!
Jun 25 22:10:54 <jasta> i just pictured f00f snapping his fingers and flipping us all attitude
Jun 25 22:10:59 <michaelnovakjr> hahahaha
Jun 25 22:11:06 <jasta> really made me chuckle at my desk here
Jun 25 22:11:07 <michaelnovakjr> that is exactly how i understood it jasta
Jun 25 22:11:13 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 22:11:18 <Dougie187> too bad he didnt add girlfriend to it
Jun 25 22:11:24 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 25 22:11:40 <michaelnovakjr> yogaboy: you should really run it again with verbose on to see what it gets hung on
Jun 25 22:11:49 <yogaboy> Now how do I run the apps again without restart the emulator?
Jun 25 22:11:50 <f00f-> haha
Jun 25 22:13:01 <michaelnovakjr> isn't that documented somewhere.... check out the getting started guide at http://code.google.com/android
Jun 25 22:14:01 <jasta> yogaboy: just run them.  escape, btw, is equivalent to the phones back key
Jun 25 22:14:42 <michaelnovakjr> also clicking the back button is too
Jun 25 22:14:44 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 25 22:14:50 <michaelnovakjr> on that note....
Jun 25 22:14:56 <michaelnovakjr> be back later
Jun 25 23:14:03 <muthu> yo
Jun 25 23:14:59 <jasta> these women in customer service make me wish we didn't let women in the work place.
Jun 25 23:15:11 <jasta> however, the women in project management make me glad we did :)
Jun 25 23:15:16 <jasta> hehe
Jun 25 23:15:47 <jasta> i sometimes just feel like standing up and yelling over the cubes "SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT YOUR CAT!"
Jun 25 23:20:47 <muthu> why women in customer service are good
Jun 25 23:21:28 <muthu> women are so important for our workplace
Jun 25 23:21:36 <jerkface03> lol
Jun 25 23:21:38 <jerkface03> psycho
Jun 25 23:23:01 <jasta> hehe, one of my friends is big about the women in technology kick.  we disagree on a lot of topics in that area ;0
Jun 25 23:24:41 <jasta> not that i have a problem with the end goal, i just think specializing it by industry and in adulthood makes no sense.  it seems obvious enough to me that it's a coarsing social problem that started way before students are picking their majors.
Jun 25 23:24:51 <jasta> coursing*
Jun 25 23:27:22 <muthu> hey, waiting for gphone
Jun 25 23:27:30 <muthu> meanwhile which phone to buy?
Jun 25 23:27:50 <muthu> jasta: what phone you have now?
Jun 25 23:28:24 <jasta> i have a moto q9h, and while i hate windows mobile, i just adore the keyboard on this device.
Jun 25 23:28:36 <jasta> it stands out to me as one of my favorite phones i've used for that reason
Jun 25 23:30:08 <jasta> i do a lot of texting and emailing from my phone
Jun 25 23:30:48 <f00f-> oh
Jun 25 23:31:02 <f00f-> cant wait to upgrade firmware on my N95 and possibly brick it
Jun 25 23:31:32 <jasta> ive actually never owned a nokia phone
Jun 25 23:31:41 <jasta> somehow, they have never appealed to me
Jun 25 23:31:51 <jasta> maybe i just dont know what im talking about :)
Jun 25 23:32:23 <f00f-> yes probably
Jun 25 23:33:42 <muthu> nokia seems to be popular
Jun 25 23:33:51 <muthu> n95 for its video thingy
Jun 25 23:34:43 <jasta> btw, i am going to punch someone in the teeth if they manufacturer the first android phone without a standard 3.5mm headphone jack
Jun 25 23:34:55 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 23:35:07 <jasta> i cant stand how many smartphones require stupid adapters just to plug in headphones or aux in your car
Jun 25 23:35:13 <Dougie187> true.
Jun 25 23:35:21 <Dougie187> but do you think they will oppose that convention?
Jun 25 23:35:35 <jasta> well, most of the good smartphones do have 3.5mm headphone jacks :)
Jun 25 23:35:38 <f00f-> many have 2.5mm jack
Jun 25 23:35:39 <jasta> like, apparently, this n95 and the iPhone
Jun 25 23:35:42 <f00f-> glad mine has 3.5mm :P
Jun 25 23:35:55 <f00f-> i dont know what video thingy you speak of muthu
Jun 25 23:36:01 <muthu> probably will get a nokia
Jun 25 23:36:03 <jasta> f00f-: all the ones ive used require adapters that use the same port for power and headphones
Jun 25 23:36:09 <jasta> so you cant even hcarge it while you listen
Jun 25 23:36:10 <jasta> stupid
Jun 25 23:36:14 <f00f-> jasta they may not be smart phones :P
Jun 25 23:36:20 <muthu> f00f-:  n95 supports 3g/video
Jun 25 23:36:23 <jasta> all the winmo handsets are like that
Jun 25 23:36:31 <f00f-> muthu: all phones support video.....
Jun 25 23:36:35 <Dougie187> that is retarded.
Jun 25 23:36:35 <f00f-> oh ok
Jun 25 23:36:49 <muthu> since nokia has opensourced symbian.. i'm beginning to like them
Jun 25 23:37:04 <jasta> yeah that is exciting news
Jun 25 23:37:10 <jasta> unfortunately, Symbian code is an absolute mess
Jun 25 23:37:21 <muthu> yeah, heard programming symbian is hell
Jun 25 23:37:22 <f00f-> yeah it's utter shit that needs major rewriting for 21st century
Jun 25 23:37:23 <jasta> coding for it is very clumsy
Jun 25 23:37:36 <f00f-> _L("hello, world string");
Jun 25 23:38:02 <muthu> woah
Jun 25 23:38:04 <f00f-> Open C needs to become a first-class citizen
Jun 25 23:38:15 <muthu> anything with underscore, is a complete screwup
Jun 25 23:38:19 <f00f-> keep the kernel and rip out everything else and start over
Jun 25 23:38:47 <muthu> lots of underscores in python too ;)
Jun 25 23:38:52 <f00f-> we'll see if on demand paging makes gmail start in less than 10 seconds
Jun 25 23:39:27 <muthu> gmail is acting a bit wierd these days
Jun 25 23:39:57 <muthu> and OM seems to have a problem with his google domain account
Jun 25 23:40:07 <jasta> well actually, that _L is normally an internationalization thing.
Jun 25 23:40:08 <f00f-> so you know om right
Jun 25 23:40:20 <jasta> and its not too horrible when you think about how much power it has.
Jun 25 23:40:23 <f00f-> i was at the sun startup camp a few weeks ago
Jun 25 23:40:28 <f00f-> and they accidentally gave me his badge
Jun 25 23:40:30 <f00f-> until i realized
Jun 25 23:41:00 <muthu> jasta: have you seen this IO photo?
Jun 25 23:41:07 <jasta> which?
Jun 25 23:41:21 <muthu> f00f-: really?
Jun 25 23:41:33 <muthu> i know OM, he doesn't know me :)
Jun 25 23:41:44 <muthu> jasta: let me show you
Jun 25 23:41:46 <f00f-> muthu: yeah, same last name, but i aint no Ommmmmmmmmmmmmm
Jun 25 23:41:51 <muthu> haha
Jun 25 23:42:01 <muthu> yeah, now i know why it got mixed up
Jun 25 23:42:05 <muthu> lol
Jun 25 23:42:26 <f00f-> oh the pic from facebook
Jun 25 23:42:28 <f00f-> with jasta on the left
Jun 25 23:42:47 <muthu> oh yeah!
Jun 25 23:42:50 <f00f-> where di i see that
Jun 25 23:42:54 <f00f-> oh here
Jun 25 23:43:02 <f00f-> http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v248/129/13/742180340/n742180340_3381886_2120.jpg
Jun 25 23:43:03 <jasta> huh?
Jun 25 23:43:08 <muthu> check it out
Jun 25 23:43:24 <f00f-> still wearin that same jacket muthu? :)
Jun 25 23:43:27 <jasta> aww nuts, you get to see my nervous tick.
Jun 25 23:43:39 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 23:43:39 <muthu> f00f-: that's not mine in fact
Jun 25 23:43:45 <Dougie187> playing with your wristband?
Jun 25 23:43:50 <jasta> yeah.  i did that a lot.
Jun 25 23:44:02 <muthu> actually, that was the good part in IO
Jun 25 23:44:04 <jasta> i hardly even wanted to take it off when it came night time because i had been playing with it all damn day
Jun 25 23:44:05 <muthu> the meeting with jasta
Jun 25 23:44:17 <jasta> i really enjoyed getting smashed that night :)
Jun 25 23:44:17 <f00f-> LOL
Jun 25 23:44:27 <Dougie187> who else is there?
Jun 25 23:44:52 <muthu> f00f-: who's next to jasta?
Jun 25 23:44:56 <muthu> don't remember his name
Jun 25 23:44:58 <f00f-> the guy
Jun 25 23:45:02 <jasta> to my left?  some dude.  he gave me a business card or something
Jun 25 23:45:05 <jasta> i doubt i still have it
Jun 25 23:45:08 <f00f-> i think the guy on the right came to the dinner thing
Jun 25 23:45:10 <Dougie187> whos on the right?
Jun 25 23:45:10 <muthu> the other guy is vergil
Jun 25 23:45:16 <f00f-> oh right
Jun 25 23:45:27 <muthu> behind me is travis
Jun 25 23:46:06 <f00f-> wow, i didnt realize that restaurant had nice backdrop
Jun 25 23:46:11 <f00f-> http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v248/129/13/742180340/n742180340_3381776_7409.jpg
Jun 25 23:46:30 <jasta> a girl?  lies! :)
Jun 25 23:46:37 <jasta> that must be f00f's girl
Jun 25 23:46:49 <f00f-> hahaha
Jun 25 23:46:59 <f00f-> no that's muthu's teammate
Jun 25 23:47:00 <f00f-> har har
Jun 25 23:47:07 <jasta> but you totally hit that, right? :)
Jun 25 23:47:28 <muthu> ha, this is a good one
Jun 25 23:47:41 <muthu> zach is so cool
Jun 25 23:47:57 <muthu> so is amir
Jun 25 23:48:10 <muthu> so is travis and finn
Jun 25 23:48:25 <muthu> that was a long night :)
Jun 25 23:51:10 <muthu> i think that's the only IO photo of me
Jun 25 23:51:38 <jasta> whose facebook account uploaded those?
Jun 25 23:52:14 <muthu> jasta: you got facebook?
Jun 25 23:52:28 <jasta> uhhhhhh no
Jun 25 23:52:32 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 25 23:52:34 <Dougie187> i do.
Jun 25 23:52:46 <Dougie187> but the only reason i got facebook was so my wife's facebook would say "Married to"
Jun 25 23:52:54 <Dougie187> i refuse to get myspace though
Jun 25 23:53:25 <muthu> friendfeed is cool
Jun 25 23:53:43 <Dougie187> don't you mean lame?
Jun 25 23:54:10 <muthu> Dougie187: get off the games, and get into SN
Jun 25 23:54:15 <muthu> you'll have more fun
Jun 25 23:54:27 <Dougie187> hah
Jun 25 23:54:28 <Dougie187> yeah right.
Jun 25 23:54:29 <f00f-> explain, while i run to ameeting
Jun 25 23:54:32 <Dougie187> i dont have fun stalking people.
Jun 25 23:54:39 <f00f-> add random people you dont know
Jun 25 23:54:40 <f00f-> etc.
Jun 25 23:55:01 <Dougie187> your like "yay this is awesome, i love pretending i have 100's of friends"
Jun 25 23:55:02 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 26 00:04:34 <f00f-> woohoo
Jun 26 00:04:48 <f00f-> ramadoss, do you stalk people on FB then?
Jun 26 00:07:18 <muthu> f00f-: people are in SN for a reason
Jun 26 00:07:29 <muthu> and i don't think you can stalk anyone
Jun 26 00:08:56 <Dougie187> i dont see how you couldnt.
Jun 26 00:09:03 <Dougie187> unless profiles were locked by default
Jun 26 00:09:37 <f00f-> at least you can stalk everyone in your network
Jun 26 00:09:59 <Dougie187> and anyone who doesnt close their profiles off.
Jun 26 00:10:09 <f00f-> ya
Jun 26 00:12:48 <f00f-> muthu: any good places in dublin to hang out?
Jun 26 00:12:57 <muthu> yeah, a lot of them
Jun 26 00:13:23 <muthu> are you coming?
Jun 26 00:14:07 <f00f-> i've never really been there
Jun 26 00:14:26 <f00f-> i prefer to ride the bart up there though
Jun 26 00:14:44 <muthu> yeah, when you want to come
Jun 26 00:14:50 <muthu> easy if you take bart
Jun 26 00:17:35 <f00f-> do you have a vehicular transport?
Jun 26 00:17:52 <f00f-> i'll map the area when i get home
Jun 26 00:17:57 <f00f-> maybe saturday evening?
Jun 26 00:18:02 <f00f-> i dont know, what works
Jun 26 00:19:38 <muthu> how about tomorrow?
Jun 26 00:20:54 <f00f-> tomorrow evening?
Jun 26 00:21:52 <muthu> yeah
Jun 26 00:22:02 <muthu> that would be cool
Jun 26 00:25:00 <f00f-> i hope i'm up for it
Jun 26 00:25:00 <f00f-> :)
Jun 26 00:27:37 <muthu> ok, great
Jun 26 00:27:45 <f00f-> i didn't say yes, yet
Jun 26 00:27:58 <f00f-> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Stalled-Server-Room.aspx
Jun 26 00:31:24 <muthu> I'd hate to have to debug a core dump in there.
Jun 26 00:31:26 <muthu> lol
Jun 26 00:31:38 <f00f-> inline lollerblades
Jun 26 00:32:28 <donomo> thats no problem for an all-female sysadmin staff
Jun 26 00:32:45 <f00f-> yeah, like those exist
Jun 26 00:33:00 <muthu> i'm yet to see a female sysadmin
Jun 26 00:33:41 <f00f-> i've seen a female NOC goddess
Jun 26 00:33:48 <f00f-> sitting at he.net data center
Jun 26 00:34:00 <f00f-> i bet she was irc'ing at the front desk
Jun 26 00:34:05 <muthu> wow
Jun 26 00:49:36 <f00f-> s/part/quit/
Jun 26 01:01:34 <AttractiveApe> I've seen 1 female sysadmin
Jun 26 01:01:43 <AttractiveApe> oh, wait, 2.
Jun 26 01:01:47 <AttractiveApe> but neither were pretty.
Jun 26 02:23:27 <dcordes_> does somebody have experience with the multiplex easystar airframe? I'm looking for a brushless motor that suits it well.
Jun 26 02:41:18 <dcordes_> wrong chan
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 26 02:59:57 2008