**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 26 02:59:57 2008 Jun 26 04:38:10 new N95 firmware seems faster up front Jun 26 04:38:15 we shall see once i load it with apps Jun 26 13:48:42 Dougie187 didn't survive your interview huh Jun 26 13:50:42 lol yeah i did. Jun 26 13:50:56 haha, good? Jun 26 13:50:58 i actually just got offered a contracted position. Jun 26 13:51:03 like 5minutes ago Jun 26 13:51:12 nice Jun 26 13:54:11 yeah, except. Jun 26 13:54:14 its 40 hours a week. Jun 26 13:54:23 and im worried i wont be able to handle it and school Jun 26 13:54:27 what would you be doing? Jun 26 13:54:32 because its only from the hours of 7am-6pm m-f Jun 26 13:54:38 tech support stuff Jun 26 13:55:09 if you don't need it, i wouldn't do it Jun 26 13:55:28 well, i would like to get the extra money. Jun 26 13:55:44 they told me that it would be more flexible with the contracted position. Jun 26 13:55:49 but i dont know how thats going to work out. Jun 26 13:55:58 would like to and need are a little different Jun 26 13:56:14 true. Jun 26 13:56:21 because i need to do good in school. Jun 26 13:56:25 exactly Jun 26 13:56:27 (or else i have to pay for it) Jun 26 13:56:32 and i would like money. Jun 26 13:56:38 so i dont want to screw over the school. Jun 26 13:56:43 that is your primary focus (school that is ) Jun 26 13:57:28 if you want extra money there's a mean red light district up in NYC on the weekends Jun 26 14:08:08 you guys read about Dan yet? http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/magazine/16-07/ff_android Jun 26 14:08:55 yea two days ago Jun 26 14:09:03 I'm a little slow Jun 26 14:09:04 :-) Jun 26 14:09:13 haha Jun 26 14:09:13 it just hit my feed for wired Jun 26 14:09:28 yea, muthu sent the link Jun 26 14:09:40 not because of dan but because of the project he's working on Jun 26 14:37:11 that is one long ass article Jun 26 14:37:23 ye Jun 26 14:37:23 a Jun 26 14:37:30 for something that is outdated :) Jun 26 14:38:08 it has a lot of good back information that I haven't heard before Jun 26 14:38:32 yea, its a little sappy though Jun 26 14:38:39 .it runs too much Jun 26 14:38:54 it just gets boring after a point. Jun 26 14:39:25 I thought it was over when it started in about Dan Jun 26 14:39:31 it didn't seem to fit Jun 26 14:39:35 lol Jun 26 14:39:52 haha Jun 26 14:39:57 I was reading it in Google reader so I didn't have the pages like on the web site Jun 26 14:40:10 how its 6 pages? Jun 26 14:40:11 lol Jun 26 14:40:44 now we need to send that reporter to find out what is up with an updated sdk Jun 26 14:42:46 i'm sure he could write a book about it :) Jun 26 14:45:55 fish are good Jun 26 16:54:47 michaelnovakjr: you here? Jun 26 16:54:56 yep Jun 26 16:55:08 i got the job. Jun 26 16:55:08 lol Jun 26 16:55:15 i told them i wouldnt be able to work 40 hours a week in the fall Jun 26 16:55:21 and they said they would try ot switch me to part time then Jun 26 16:55:21 haha nice! Jun 26 16:55:26 good deal! Jun 26 16:55:28 but ill be 40 over the summer Jun 26 16:55:41 good stuff Jun 26 16:55:53 yeah Jun 26 16:55:58 im excited. Jun 26 16:56:01 extra income never hurts. Jun 26 16:56:02 heh Jun 26 16:56:14 never :) Jun 26 16:59:01 whats the job? Jun 26 17:05:23 stupid windows. Jun 26 17:05:31 f's up my wireless connection Jun 26 17:05:31 whats the job dougie? Jun 26 17:05:41 gotta love windows Jun 26 17:05:46 sys admin/tech support stuff for a state dept. Jun 26 17:05:55 Fun :) Jun 26 17:05:59 heh yeah Jun 26 17:06:02 i dont know how fun it will be Jun 26 17:06:04 but its money. Jun 26 17:06:06 (probably not very) Jun 26 17:06:07 thats fo sho Jun 26 17:06:07 yeah Jun 26 17:06:23 at least they are going to be flexible with my school stuff Jun 26 17:06:48 thats cool Jun 26 17:06:54 yeah Jun 26 17:07:23 also i have to give presentations in meetings and stuff. Jun 26 17:07:46 about Systems Management Server Jun 26 17:07:50 and other things. Jun 26 17:07:52 Could someone tell me why the LiMo Foundation should be open ? Jun 26 17:08:25 why not? Jun 26 17:08:28 why they say to be open Jun 26 17:08:30 shouldnt everything be open? Jun 26 17:08:36 yes Jun 26 17:08:44 open == good. Jun 26 17:08:45 lol Jun 26 17:08:46 I meant it in a different way :/ Jun 26 17:08:56 Why they say they are open Jun 26 17:09:04 i dont know what you mean. Jun 26 17:09:22 I have a ton of problems with vista laptops on wifi at work. I had my AP in non-broadcast mode and every couple days these vista machines are suddenly unable to connect to it, despite it knowing all the settings Jun 26 17:09:31 omg vista is garbage. Jun 26 17:09:40 On their page they pretend to be open. Jun 26 17:09:41 why are you using Vista Jun 26 17:09:47 use XP Jun 26 17:09:48 Thats what I wanted to say Jun 26 17:09:48 you should burn vista. Jun 26 17:09:49 :) Jun 26 17:09:57 anno^da: then i dontk now. Jun 26 17:10:03 I still use XP for everything Jun 26 17:10:16 i use XP when i need windows. Jun 26 17:10:16 If you look at the foundation in detail nothing is open. Jun 26 17:10:22 otherwise i use ubuntu. Jun 26 17:10:29 well they are liars then Jun 26 17:10:35 mandriva all the way!! Jun 26 17:10:35 They are just open to their members sharing moduls of the system. Jun 26 17:10:40 trying to appeal to a crowd that is too smart for them. Jun 26 17:11:24 I'm not using vista. Co-workers are using vista because it comes on new machines and XP is expensive :( Jun 26 17:11:57 volume license Jun 26 17:12:03 that's what i have :) Jun 26 17:12:09 like...5 machines? Jun 26 17:12:17 that's it? Jun 26 17:12:21 just buy XP haha Jun 26 17:12:33 Our older machines all have vista. just the newer ones. Jun 26 17:12:34 or switch to linux Jun 26 17:12:54 well. thats my plan, is to ween everyone off of windows but I'm not in a position to do that yet. Jun 26 17:13:49 When your company only buys machines for 300 bucks or so, its hard to convince them to spend another 200 on an XP license heh Jun 26 17:13:51 openoffice.... start installing that on windows machines and get off office Jun 26 17:14:03 damn, thats cheap Jun 26 17:14:10 Believe me if spending money was that easy for me I wouldn't have 90% of my IT problems. Jun 26 17:14:23 how big is the company? Jun 26 17:14:25 MS Access is our main windows dependency at this point ;) Jun 26 17:14:32 why access? Jun 26 17:14:35 michaelnovakjr: But you have to teach them OpenOffice as well. Jun 26 17:14:37 :) Jun 26 17:14:42 its not hard Jun 26 17:14:48 Yeah I know that. Jun 26 17:15:16 But the employes that just use a piece of software to do their work have to learn it. Jun 26 17:15:24 Because everything our business does goes through this 8-years-in-the-making hacked together 10gb Access DB Jun 26 17:15:39 haha yeah Access :D Jun 26 17:15:48 why don't you hire someone to convert to a better system Jun 26 17:15:50 and I'm looking at an outlook of a year or two to complete a re-design Jun 26 17:15:55 Ah hah Jun 26 17:16:00 again he touches on the problem Jun 26 17:16:03 Money Jun 26 17:16:06 haha Jun 26 17:16:27 i still can't get over companies that won't spend money to improve their business Jun 26 17:16:35 the types of people that shouldn't be in business Jun 26 17:16:45 There are some companies that are in positions where they can't afford it. Jun 26 17:17:05 Especially right now. We're a food distributor, getting trashed by fuel costs. Jun 26 17:17:47 does the access database hinder your company's productivity? Jun 26 17:18:02 yes Jun 26 17:18:07 then its no questions Jun 26 17:18:12 its a must at that point Jun 26 17:18:25 if it was just a wanted improvement i could see the argument Jun 26 17:18:34 but not when productivity is in jeopardy Jun 26 17:18:35 A. I'm not the one you have to convince. B. Its all easier said than done Jun 26 17:19:20 Not everyone sees the world in as clear a light as you, and I may be at the mercy of those people to a great degree. Jun 26 17:20:57 If you think that this is a logical atrocity you'd rip your hair out after spending 5 minutes in my office, seeing how inefficiently people go about their tasks Jun 26 17:22:31 speaking of work, time to head there. bbiab. Jun 26 19:11:28 real quiet today Jun 26 19:26:50 shhhhhhhhhhhhh Jun 26 19:27:12 ? Jun 26 19:29:49 michaelnovakjr: its all quiet day today Jun 26 19:29:50 yeah, keep it down Jun 26 19:30:04 hey f00f- are you coming up this way, today? Jun 26 19:30:10 come over man! Jun 26 19:30:16 Hey. When will the first phones using Android be available? Jun 26 19:30:26 Are we talking just a few months here or a year? Jun 26 19:30:26 Q4 2008 Jun 26 19:30:30 nov 2008 Jun 26 19:30:32 Thanks. Jun 26 19:30:32 no Jun 26 19:30:36 Q4 2008 Jun 26 19:30:50 read the official announcements Jun 26 19:30:56 Can I have a link for that please? Jun 26 19:31:05 http://code.google.com/android Jun 26 19:31:42 bro Jun 26 19:31:44 it's in november area Jun 26 19:31:50 it'll be shpping for xmas time Jun 26 19:31:58 got multiple sources implying that Jun 26 19:32:30 yeah makes sense Jun 26 19:33:37 privmsg me your number muthu Jun 26 19:33:52 ok Jun 26 19:36:34 Google has said Q4 2008, why must we keep speculating? Jun 26 19:39:52 michaelnovakjr, I can't find the official announcement in the site you linked. Jun 26 19:40:53 Or any Google released news about that at all. Jun 26 19:45:27 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=606 Jun 26 19:46:45 Are we supposed to trust a private blog on that information that has nothing to do with Google? Jun 26 19:47:11 he's credible Jun 26 19:47:22 Dan Morrill has agreed with that Jun 26 19:47:29 Ok. Jun 26 19:47:34 Q4 2008 is all they have said Jun 26 19:49:24 HTC have stated today that it will be around christmas Jun 26 19:51:07 http://apcmag.com/htc_remains_committed_to_android_first_phones_will_ship_this_year.htm Jun 26 20:02:18 bro Jun 26 20:02:29 november is within Q4 Jun 26 20:02:35 get with the program already Jun 26 20:15:47 yes, but november is specific Jun 26 20:15:52 Q4 is not Jun 26 20:16:14 it's i n nov Jun 26 20:16:17 i have some more credible sources Jun 26 20:16:21 such as handset manufacturers Jun 26 20:16:30 or should i say near nov Jun 26 20:16:36 its a great way to start rumors Jun 26 20:16:39 +/- 45 days Jun 26 20:16:47 its easy just to say q$ Jun 26 20:16:51 no prob Jun 26 20:17:03 couple of stop ships right now, such as software stability Jun 26 20:17:10 but it should even out in sep/oct timeframe Jun 26 20:17:18 cause then we'll have 100 people like ooo what about novemeber Jun 26 20:17:18 haha Jun 26 20:17:20 testing begins at the former side of that Jun 26 20:17:35 i'd be nice to get a new sdk then :) Jun 26 20:17:40 it'd Jun 26 20:17:51 you will Jun 26 20:17:53 i guarantee it Jun 26 20:18:10 f00f-: how can you guarantee that? :) Jun 26 20:19:07 i have an ear or two :D Jun 26 20:19:37 can't argue with romainguy, he's google Jun 26 20:20:02 * f00f- bows without hesitation Jun 26 20:21:28 well being as romainguy works on the sdk, i wouldn't hesitate Jun 26 20:22:07 it was a joke Jun 26 20:22:15 i know :) Jun 26 20:22:18 google is not releasing the phone Jun 26 20:22:20 a few others are ;) Jun 26 20:22:35 but they are kind of supplying the software :) Jun 26 20:22:40 but they don't release the SDK :) Jun 26 20:22:58 HTC can release the phone in november.... but without an OS it sure wouldn't be useful Jun 26 20:23:26 i'm just trying to keep things realistic Jun 26 20:23:40 yet conservative Jun 26 20:23:41 :) Jun 26 20:23:46 i mean major press picked up news of a delay but reported the delay as the original dat? Jun 26 20:23:49 date? Jun 26 20:23:58 yawn Jun 26 20:24:25 i argee jasta! Jun 26 20:24:32 that is what rumors get you! Jun 26 20:29:28 i still do wonder if, as Dan claims, an SDK will come out prior to launch. Jun 26 20:29:40 i sure hope so Jun 26 20:29:47 that would be stupid if it didn't Jun 26 20:29:52 me too, but otoh, it sounds too good to be true Jun 26 20:30:05 if they wanted it to be secret now, why on earth wouldn't they want it to be secret *closer* to launch? Jun 26 20:30:29 that is true Jun 26 20:30:35 even a month would be awesome, but i just doubt we'll get it. just some length of time to get our software prepared to really get on a handset Jun 26 20:30:45 yea Jun 26 20:30:54 i am very disappointed about that Jun 26 20:31:11 everyone should be able to release software when hardware launches Jun 26 20:31:33 Agreed! Jun 26 20:31:39 Such bullshit. Jun 26 20:31:43 yep Jun 26 20:32:14 i was checking out some of the other mobile linux efforts going on Jun 26 20:32:21 some aren't so bad Jun 26 20:32:46 Which one would you prefer Jun 26 20:32:57 i enjoy the ubuntu mobile one. Jun 26 20:32:58 lol Jun 26 20:32:58 not sure yet, i haven't tried any... i was just checking them out Jun 26 20:32:59 there is Openmoko, LiMo, Maemo, Ubuntu Mobile Jun 26 20:33:01 but i havent tried it yet Jun 26 20:33:04 Strictly iPhone now, since Google has made me a second class citizen. Jun 26 20:33:19 i just got the iPhone dev membership Jun 26 20:33:26 i can officially test on hardware! Jun 26 20:33:26 Cool Jun 26 20:33:29 LiMo is the only direct competitor Jun 26 20:33:43 and they are completly closed and ever will be Jun 26 20:33:44 there is no competitor without a product Jun 26 20:33:50 :) Jun 26 20:34:16 The iPhone isn't a competirot at all to the LiMos and Androids Jun 26 20:34:26 why not Jun 26 20:34:27 it is totally different market Jun 26 20:34:30 its a cellphone Jun 26 20:34:31 1 device Jun 26 20:34:36 dude, they are all cellphones Jun 26 20:34:42 they are all in the same market Jun 26 20:34:43 Yeah and one device fits them all ? Jun 26 20:34:56 anno^da_: 100% correct! Jun 26 20:35:06 Cmont that is bullshit ;) You have thousands of different mobile devices Jun 26 20:35:22 sure, but in terms of cellphones Jun 26 20:35:33 Yeah for sure they are all cellphones :) Jun 26 20:35:45 But you have different markets in the cell phone industry Jun 26 20:35:53 and they are... Jun 26 20:36:31 You have the little devices with less features, you have smartphones, you have business only phones and so on and so on Jun 26 20:36:52 ok but your reference to the iphone being a different market.... how so? Jun 26 20:36:52 Or would you say that people decide to just have the iPhone Jun 26 20:37:02 apparently they are Jun 26 20:37:21 33% have another phone... ;) Jun 26 20:37:21 people come in here asking about android and whether they should wait or buy an iPhone Jun 26 20:37:22 The iPhone is much to big for the most people Jun 26 20:37:51 Yeah I know but I've seen 1% having an iPhone and the rest ... Jun 26 20:37:56 anno^da_: android's first device is likely to be as big or bigger. and if that device fails, likely the others will fail too. Jun 26 20:38:15 Yeah jasta that is right but you will see more than one device Jun 26 20:38:22 android's got a tough sell in the market. they need the first couple of devices to win big Jun 26 20:38:28 while android isn't limited to a certain phone you can say with certainty the best use is on a PDA Jun 26 20:38:33 Everyone has a different taste regarding to the design Jun 26 20:39:03 The iPhone and Android devices will live side by side with no problem Jun 26 20:39:11 so why are all the manufacturers copying the iphone design? Jun 26 20:39:28 the instinct the lg phone .... the list goes on Jun 26 20:39:32 verizon has one too Jun 26 20:39:52 Cmon you dont believe what you say here :) Jun 26 20:40:06 what is wrong with that last statement? Jun 26 20:40:10 its entirely true Jun 26 20:40:11 From your point oif view everyone will buy an iPhone :P Jun 26 20:40:16 anno^da_: if you think the iPhone hasn't affected just about every handset manufacturer you are crazy :) Jun 26 20:40:20 and that is definetly not right Jun 26 20:41:10 jasta: for sure they are influenced by the iPhone BUT they will need an system that can compete with OSX mobile Jun 26 20:41:29 wow Jun 26 20:41:36 you just used the word compete Jun 26 20:41:50 living side by side and competing? Jun 26 20:42:55 http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller?item=phoneFirst&action=viewPhoneDetail&selectedPhoneId=3299&changingCompletedOrder= Jun 26 20:43:12 lg voyager.... it looks like lg was standing over apples shoulder copying down what they did Jun 26 20:43:39 michaelnovakjr: and apples copying from Braun Jun 26 20:43:41 so what ;) Jun 26 20:43:51 http://www.instinctthephone.com/?id12=UHP_Masthead_062008_instinctthephone Jun 26 20:44:02 the instinct looks even more like the iPhon Jun 26 20:44:03 e Jun 26 20:44:31 i mean come on.... are you living in a cave? Jun 26 20:44:32 michaelnovakjr: Well they are all cellphones ;) Jun 26 20:44:47 yes.... and android is meant for cellphones too Jun 26 20:44:57 i'm glad we can cover the basics in here :) Jun 26 20:45:19 michaelnovakjr: you are living in a cave believing that apple will dominate the cell phone market. That makes me laugh :) Jun 26 20:45:27 dude Jun 26 20:45:40 look at the many knockoffs there already are Jun 26 20:45:41 michaelnovakjr: You have to understand that the US market is very differnet from the rest of the world and in Europe the iPhone was not such a hit Jun 26 20:45:54 spykid: THANK YOU Jun 26 20:45:55 :) Jun 26 20:46:25 And it won't be much better as GPS and 3G is not that impressive here Jun 26 20:46:27 In Germany you have 0.x% market share for the iPhone Jun 26 20:46:37 is germany the world? Jun 26 20:46:44 lol Jun 26 20:46:45 is the US market the world Jun 26 20:46:46 :) Jun 26 20:46:46 i guess so Jun 26 20:46:50 Is it not differnt in Asia and in Europe Jun 26 20:46:51 with all the germany talk lately Jun 26 20:46:51 hell yea it is Jun 26 20:46:56 haha Jun 26 20:46:58 haha Jun 26 20:47:13 thats the end of the discussion if thats your real opinion :> Jun 26 20:47:25 and the army rules the world :) :P Jun 26 20:47:32 what phones do germans like then? Jun 26 20:47:41 why would you want android on a small phone Jun 26 20:47:52 so you can take out your magnifying glass to read the web browser? Jun 26 20:47:53 http://gigaom.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/smartphonemarketshare.gif Jun 26 20:48:14 No recent numbers but not that much changed Jun 26 20:48:22 Why? Because at the moment there is no chance except ugly Java software to install different software Jun 26 20:48:56 ugly java software? Jun 26 20:49:02 dude android is java? Jun 26 20:49:28 michaelnovakjr: Not the bytecode... ;) Jun 26 20:49:29 There is a big difference between the Java software living on the phones at the moment Jun 26 20:49:32 and android Jun 26 20:49:43 dude Jun 26 20:49:44 ! Jun 26 20:49:44 :) Jun 26 20:49:58 so then say that Jun 26 20:50:14 generally speaking you write android software in java... therefore that means its JAVA! Jun 26 20:50:16 I'd like to have VoIP, I'd like to have instant messengers, I'd like to have control and not be controlled by the OS Jun 26 20:50:21 michaelnovakjr: But you are right with the screen size :D Jun 26 20:50:37 HTC models are nice Jun 26 20:50:43 decent size Jun 26 20:51:09 i am by no means an iPhone supporter but you can't hide from the facts Jun 26 20:51:18 its had quite an impact on the marker Jun 26 20:51:21 in Germany we have HTC, RIM, WiMo, SE devices in the business. Jun 26 20:51:21 market Jun 26 20:51:37 michaelnovakjr: I agree with you but the market share is very small. Jun 26 20:51:46 anno^da_: don't say the 'G'-word ;) Jun 26 20:52:05 WiMo is a manufacturer? Jun 26 20:52:12 windows mobile? Jun 26 20:52:13 HTC makes non WinMo phones? Jun 26 20:52:28 not that i know of :) Jun 26 20:52:33 They've put the user interface to a new level integrating internet applications but they will not dominate the market in the future with one device. Jun 26 20:53:02 Yeah they take HTC devices :) Jun 26 20:53:38 ah I meant T-Mobile devices Jun 26 20:53:58 they take HTC devices for the business sector and sell them under their lable Jun 26 20:54:07 everybody does ;) Jun 26 20:54:16 :) Jun 26 20:54:17 yeah :) Jun 26 20:54:27 they are nice as michaelnovakjr said before Jun 26 20:54:48 I have one :) Jun 26 20:54:49 Love it. Jun 26 20:54:53 :-) Jun 26 20:55:02 i have the HTC touch/elf/vogue whatever the damn name is and its cool, except the winmobile Jun 26 20:55:11 michaelnovakjr: vogue. Jun 26 20:55:15 hey guys Jun 26 20:55:23 just call it a vogue. elf is the gsm version, different proc and chipset. Jun 26 20:55:24 you say vogue and xda says elf! Jun 26 20:55:25 if you have any questions about focus you can ask krosaen here Jun 26 20:55:35 michaelnovakjr: no, it's a vogue. Jun 26 20:55:41 focus romainguy ? Jun 26 20:55:53 focus management in Android UIs Jun 26 20:55:55 michaelnovakjr: go look at your phone, take out the battery pack, and notice how it says VOGU100? Jun 26 20:56:09 i'm gonna check that out when i get home Jun 26 20:57:14 michaelnovakjr: it's neat to boot Android on the vogue ;) Jun 26 20:57:15 michaelnovakjr: or, try via winmo: Start -> Settings -> System -> Device Information -> Identity Jun 26 20:57:18 And from my point of view the market share of the iPhon even in the US will not be over 8%. Jun 26 20:57:34 anno^da_: that's a lot of market share for a single device. Jun 26 20:57:41 It is :) Jun 26 20:57:42 windows mobile might not even have 8% total :) Jun 26 20:57:50 but domination is something different Jun 26 20:58:09 blackberry is still kicking ass for large corporations, even though its a complete mess Jun 26 20:58:13 Thats why I say they will not compete with each other. Jun 26 20:58:19 and then really, the largest segment of users dont use smartphones Jun 26 20:58:42 For sure they will compete in terms of features and UI but not in terms of the market share. Jun 26 20:58:47 the biggest hurdle for everyone is getting users convinced that data connections are wroth the money Jun 26 20:59:11 and similarly getting the carriers to maybe relax the pricing a bit Jun 26 20:59:22 Yeah thats right. But I think you can use the data connections even in small devices. Jun 26 20:59:25 although IMO, $20 or $30/mo for unlimited data is not unreasonable. Jun 26 20:59:35 anno^da_: yeah, but there is no compelling reason to do so Jun 26 20:59:37 for a cellphone? Jun 26 20:59:41 well 20 isnt bad. Jun 26 20:59:43 but 30. Jun 26 20:59:52 i dont think i could justify paying 30 a month just for data Jun 26 21:00:02 Dougie187: well it certainly shouldn't go higher than $30, but i think that's still in the sensible arena Jun 26 21:00:14 i think it depends on your use. Jun 26 21:00:27 i pay $30/mo right now for data + text messaging Jun 26 21:00:39 jasta: I believe there are reasons. Replacing SMS through instant messaging, syncing the adress book with online services, getting location bassed data and so on and son on Jun 26 21:00:48 Just a matter of the righ user interface. Jun 26 21:01:09 Dougie187: there is no room for price points on data access. unlimited or none. otherwise, users will be scared to use the service they pay for for fear of being gouged by the carriers in overages Jun 26 21:01:29 anno^da_: right, but regular phones don't do any of those things well. Jun 26 21:01:33 that's what i meant. Jun 26 21:01:34 Yeah I agree with Jasta here Jun 26 21:01:45 jasta: Yeah thats right Jun 26 21:01:47 krosaen: If I write code using the current sdk focus api will I be screwed when us second class citizens get the latest sdk? Jun 26 21:01:56 Thats why you need sth like Android Jun 26 21:02:13 anno^da_: that's why i'm not arguing for one phone taking over market share of another Jun 26 21:02:21 it's about the impact on the industry that means more for us all in the long run Jun 26 21:02:23 and on this devices OSX will nerver happen in the near future Jun 26 21:02:30 well jasta: i pay 30/month for my entire plan Jun 26 21:02:32 getting users to agree that data is worth something is a big step Jun 26 21:02:36 500 minutes, texting data, and everything Jun 26 21:02:54 Dougie187: that is an unusual price point for the US. Jun 26 21:02:54 jasta: yeah I'm with you at that point. Jun 26 21:02:57 who're you with? Jun 26 21:03:08 sprint Jun 26 21:03:15 you're lying ;) Jun 26 21:03:24 wanna bet? Jun 26 21:03:24 we use sprint at work. they do not have a price plan like that. Jun 26 21:03:28 ill bet you Jun 26 21:03:29 lol Jun 26 21:03:38 go ahead, point me to proof :) Jun 26 21:03:40 dmoffett: which apis? Jun 26 21:03:44 ok 1 sec Jun 26 21:03:55 www.sprint.com/sero Jun 26 21:03:56 login with Jun 26 21:04:06 savings@sprintemi.com Jun 26 21:04:09 In germany we pay 50 euro for unlimited data access Jun 26 21:04:15 with 3G Jun 26 21:04:32 krosaen: Sorry I was being sarcastic. Still grousing about the fact we don't have the latest api. Jun 26 21:04:40 anno^da_: what about moobiair? Jun 26 21:05:16 Taking every opportunity for cheap shots. Jun 26 21:05:23 lol do you conceed jasta? Jun 26 21:05:23 Ah havent seen that yet spykid Jun 26 21:05:24 heh, np Jun 26 21:05:38 anno^da_: T-Mobile Net ;) Jun 26 21:05:53 Yeah Ive seen it now :) Jun 26 21:06:18 havent looked for data plans waiting for a new cell phone thats worth having such a plan :) Jun 26 21:06:22 anno^da_: I'm sure the price will drop further Jun 26 21:06:30 It will definetly Jun 26 21:06:53 10 years ago I've paid 6 DM accessing the internet for one hour Jun 26 21:06:55 anno^da_: O2 has 25 Euro + Voice Jun 26 21:07:31 krosaen: this list has turned into chatting about anything but Android since most of us are really just waiting for the next release. Normally there would be lots of questions for guys of your ilk. Jun 26 21:07:38 And now I'm paying 40 euros accessing the internet all the time, having a voice flat and wifi flat :D Jun 26 21:07:47 with 16.000 Mbit Jun 26 21:08:02 Dougie187: savings@? Jun 26 21:08:18 anno^da_: 16.000 Mbit - wow :D Jun 26 21:08:26 haha Jun 26 21:08:30 Dougie187: you are getting an employee discount, though Jun 26 21:08:30 16 Jun 26 21:08:31 Mbit Jun 26 21:08:32 :D Jun 26 21:08:35 that's not exactly normal. Jun 26 21:08:44 and so they don't actually have a price point like that ;) Jun 26 21:08:58 no jasta thats not employee discount Jun 26 21:09:04 its Employee Referal Jun 26 21:09:14 Sero = Sprint Employee Refferal Offer Jun 26 21:09:16 well thats a hell of a discount, none-the-less Jun 26 21:09:19 yeah Jun 26 21:09:25 i didnt get it through that site though Jun 26 21:09:36 i just called and complained and said i was going to switch unless they gave it to me, and they did Jun 26 21:09:40 and my little brother got it through the site Jun 26 21:09:50 my wife has it too Jun 26 21:11:32 crazy :) Jun 26 21:11:45 although i still wouldnt use sprint Jun 26 21:11:52 All in all having gone through all the Linux systems Android will take its role in the market. /but they have to open source everything under the APL except the apps, without that they will have a difficult standing against the LiMo/ Jun 26 21:12:02 service is bad. phone selection sucks too. Jun 26 21:13:09 service isnt bad Jun 26 21:13:12 customer service is bad Jun 26 21:13:16 phone selection does suck though Jun 26 21:13:19 but not after android. Jun 26 21:14:50 I'm trying to decide whether I should wait for an Android phone or not. The prospect of the iPhone 3g at $200 is attractive, but the lack of bluetooth tethering is keeping me on the fence. Jun 26 21:15:41 If I'm paying some god-awful amount for a data plan I might as well be able to use my laptop with it Jun 26 21:17:19 yakischloba: it's unlikely that android, without hacking, will allow you to tether either Jun 26 21:17:34 considering that's Sprint and T-Mobile's policy already Jun 26 21:18:03 jasta: why do you believe that ? If the platform gets open source it is not a real problem implementing that Jun 26 21:18:57 Hopefully carriers of android phones won't put as much effort into keeping people from hacking as Apple has Jun 26 21:19:25 that sucks Jun 26 21:19:50 Is it their policy to not offer any tethering at all? I used tethering on my Motorola Q with Verizon for a while. It cost an extra $15 on top of the $45 for data but it is allowed. Jun 26 21:20:29 Thats what I dont understand. With normal phones (SE, Nokia etc) I can use the data connection over BT without any problems. Why should they close it down with Android. Jun 26 21:21:56 nah dude Jun 26 21:22:04 just wait until good devices come out Jun 26 21:22:06 android or not Jun 26 21:22:09 it'll push the envelope Jun 26 21:22:15 true true Jun 26 21:23:29 But talking about the ease of developement the iPhone SDK and the Android SDK are the easiest ways getting access to mobile developement. Jun 26 21:23:51 If you look at the LiMo APIs and the Maemo things it is a mess Jun 26 21:23:57 or even Openmoko :) Jun 26 21:25:01 okay, i have not much experience in those Jun 26 21:25:24 I'm following the Openmoko framework since early 2007 Jun 26 21:25:47 You dont have any SDK, you dont have any real documentation Jun 26 21:25:47 nice, how is it? Jun 26 21:26:18 It is open :) but there is a lot of chaos in the developement. Jun 26 21:26:44 You have 3 application frameworks at the moment Jun 26 21:26:52 that are completly different Jun 26 21:27:01 and they are competing against each other :) Jun 26 21:27:29 I don't believe that there will be a working system untill mid 2009 Jun 26 21:27:55 At the moment it is very interesting if you want to do low level developement Jun 26 21:28:11 playing around with GSM calls :) Jun 26 21:29:00 the great thing is that they every driver is open (GPS, Wifi, accelerometers etc) Jun 26 21:29:46 But for the normal developer that is used to SDKs and great IDEs it is no real fun atm :) Jun 26 21:31:06 http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf Jun 26 21:31:24 Flash demo of one of the user interfaces Jun 26 21:32:44 Benevolent Dictator is the most efficient method of governance, it's the benevolent part that Apple, Google and others don't seem to get. Completely open systems tend to fragment to some degree. :-( Jun 26 21:34:08 dmoffett: true thats why I believe at the moment in the Android thing although I'd like to see a framework based on the GPL licence Jun 26 21:37:50 oh nice, i love low-level stuff Jun 26 21:38:40 I really trusted Google but now I lump them in with Apple and other "Big Companies". At least with Apple I am only a second class citizen to Apple employees. Jun 26 21:39:00 we dont know yet buddy Jun 26 21:39:11 just take a chill pill dave, and we shall see in the coming months Jun 26 21:39:21 apple was completely closed in pre-launch Jun 26 21:39:27 as were symbian and others Jun 26 21:41:59 Yeah, I still get bent out shape on the SDK thing. Going out to beat the dog again. :-) Jun 26 21:43:42 The things is why should they say at the IO that they will open up everything even the Dalvik engine. Jun 26 21:44:13 And another point is that they understand how the internet works by contrast to Apple Jun 26 21:45:10 and by contrast to the LiMo foundation that offers an open system designed by the industry. (you have to be member to get the code :) ) Jun 26 21:47:06 ah hmm Jun 26 21:47:33 do you know if web apps on iPhone can use location information? Jun 26 21:48:30 no dono Jun 26 21:48:39 I'm sorry :) Jun 26 21:48:44 I have to leave now Jun 26 21:48:48 going to bed now Jun 26 21:48:52 n8 Jun 26 22:08:09 what a day Jun 26 22:08:11 been working for most of it Jun 26 22:08:31 Do you have a 'day job?' Jun 26 22:08:48 or do you code 'freelance' or something Jun 26 22:09:27 i have a day job Jun 26 22:09:41 may I ask what it is? Jun 26 22:10:14 heckling other android devs Jun 26 22:10:28 :-) Jun 26 22:11:05 hah Jun 26 22:11:07 I could've guessed. Jun 26 22:17:29 yakischloba: i'm a sysadmin, basically Jun 26 22:18:36 hey, did I see a commercial with android on a cellphone? Jun 26 22:18:44 i dont know, did you? Jun 26 22:18:52 seemed like it Jun 26 22:18:55 Leaving you with lots of extra time for android? Most sysadmins I know have lots of extra time :) Jun 26 22:19:01 rhett: was it an Android commercial? :) Jun 26 22:19:42 So, I don't have a cell phone or a plan, long story... should I buy an iphone with the att plan? Jun 26 22:19:50 do whatever you want Jun 26 22:20:06 well, I'd rather buy an android phone, but i can't wait a year for that Jun 26 22:20:19 openmoko? Jun 26 22:20:22 lollerskates Jun 26 22:20:35 just buy a nokia device Jun 26 22:20:39 and be done with it Jun 26 22:21:38 u can't buy an iPhone now anyway. Jun 26 22:21:46 except on ebay. Jun 26 22:21:59 I'd wait until the 11th if I were you Jun 26 22:22:20 ok, i might be able to wait 2 weeks Jun 26 22:23:56 why are people buying $500 gsm iphones on ebay? Jun 26 22:24:25 just retarded I guess Jun 26 22:24:31 pretty much. Jun 26 22:25:00 I've heard of the iPhone going for over $1100 on craigslist Jun 26 22:25:22 wish I could sell mine for that much. Jun 26 22:25:23 it's like the going rate right now Jun 26 22:25:29 the 5 iPhones per user was creating demand for people reselling them in Russia Jun 26 22:26:15 I think I would sell for that price Jun 26 22:26:20 dmoffett: get moving Jun 26 22:26:30 good point. Jun 26 22:26:55 One thing I have learned about Apple never get the first rev of anything. Jun 26 22:26:59 * jasta ponders quietly if the OpenMoko freeruner could run android. Jun 26 22:27:45 the vogue has an ARM926EJ-S processor, and the freerunner has an ARM920T.... Jun 26 22:28:22 all you need is ELF binary compatibility, since both kernels are open you could easily merge in the android-specific bits. Jun 26 22:31:02 looks like no :) Jun 26 22:31:48 jasta: Didn't someone get android running on the previous openmoko model? Jun 26 22:31:53 different families, even. Jun 26 22:32:02 yakischloba: from what i just saw, that would be impossible Jun 26 22:32:18 well, i guess with some clever hacking you could do it Jun 26 22:32:24 maybe I bookmarked the article. it was a long time ago though. hold on a sec. Jun 26 22:33:50 certainly wouldn't be easy tho Jun 26 22:35:15 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2955814405.html Jun 26 22:35:16 http://koolu.com/Koolu-WE-Appliance/WE-Phone.html Jun 26 22:38:05 yakischloba: and what does that have to do with Android? Jun 26 22:38:24 A Koolu spokesperson (not maddog) confirmed that the W.E. Phone also runs the Java based Google Android phone stack. Jun 26 22:38:29 jasta Jun 26 22:38:32 dota tonight? Jun 26 22:38:58 yakischloba: but this doesnt exist, right? Jun 26 22:39:06 so its likely that they are waiting for source just like everyone else Jun 26 22:39:10 Dougie187: perhaps Jun 26 22:39:13 not sure Jun 26 22:39:17 it says you can email them to order it Jun 26 22:39:30 I was just throwing it out there, not trying to stand behind it ;) Jun 26 22:39:48 oh Jun 26 22:39:49 waiting list Jun 26 22:39:50 yeah Jun 26 22:40:39 yeah, thats what i thought Jun 26 22:40:46 they're banking on being able to port Android to their device when source is out Jun 26 22:40:59 which is probably a safe bet Jun 26 23:03:03 jasta: the vogue has an arm11 for the main proc, and an arm9 running the radio. Jun 26 23:09:17 AttractiveApe: oh really? Jun 26 23:10:14 http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=cpu&id=a7500 Jun 27 00:51:35 hey phil Jun 27 00:51:46 i really just want to call you malverian hehe Jun 27 00:58:24 he just go into work Jun 27 00:58:28 slackers Jun 27 00:58:30 jasta, :-) Jun 27 00:59:44 * pawalls chuckles.. Jun 27 01:05:04 there's a chance i'll be in SF again in August. Jun 27 01:05:28 bringing the whole crew with me too ;) Jun 27 01:10:00 riot? Jun 27 01:15:14 jasta, nice Jun 27 01:15:22 jasta, You know my number. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jun 27 02:59:56 2008