**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 27 02:59:56 2008
Jun 27 11:10:05 <Hai-Fai> http://www.koreus.com/video/telephone-portable-mais-popcorn.html so, you're mobilephone software developers, toast your brains ;)
Jun 27 13:45:50 <Dougie187> he wants me to drive him to jacksonville on the 28th.
Jun 27 14:53:24 <Dougie187> i want an android phone.
Jun 27 14:53:32 <Dougie187> who else wants one?
Jun 27 14:53:32 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 14:56:20 <michaelnovakjr> haha me!
Jun 27 14:56:27 <michaelnovakjr> i am actually writing for the iPhone at the moment
Jun 27 14:56:54 <michaelnovakjr> the iPhone has full bsd networking underneath obj-c
Jun 27 14:57:03 <michaelnovakjr> c socket programming!
Jun 27 15:27:46 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: is it still true that you can't run in the background?
Jun 27 15:28:25 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 27 15:28:30 <michaelnovakjr> as far as i know
Jun 27 15:28:37 <michaelnovakjr> i got into the beta last week
Jun 27 15:30:52 <michaelnovakjr> i'm writing an ssh client
Jun 27 15:31:03 <jasta> i really want ssh and irc for android
Jun 27 15:31:07 <jasta> both well written
Jun 27 15:31:29 <AttractiveApe> me too :)
Jun 27 15:31:30 <jasta> i want an ssh client that can run quietly in the background as well, and let you attach into it.
Jun 27 15:31:35 <jasta> err, an irc client i mean
Jun 27 15:31:42 <morrildl> OpenSSH should run in the Terminal app
Jun 27 15:31:53 <morrildl> or did you mean a fancy-pants GUI version?
Jun 27 15:32:06 <jasta> the terminal app, as i've been told, is quite terrible.
Jun 27 15:32:14 <morrildl> eh
Jun 27 15:32:18 <morrildl> who told you that?
Jun 27 15:32:21 <jasta> San
Jun 27 15:32:26 <morrildl> O RLY
Jun 27 15:32:38 <michaelnovakjr> for the iPhone i wrote an ssh client, didn't try to mess with the phone
Jun 27 15:32:41 <jasta> yes, and also it makes sense given that it does not allocate a pty
Jun 27 15:32:44 <morrildl> well, it's no rxvt, but it gets the job done
Jun 27 15:32:47 <jasta> so it probably doesn't support curses, color, etc.
Jun 27 15:33:04 <morrildl> ahh, well true
Jun 27 15:33:08 <jasta> which certainly is not what i'd be willing to live with when i say i want a "good client" :)
Jun 27 15:33:14 <morrildl> if you wanted to play nethack over it, that would not be a great experience :)
Jun 27 15:33:19 <jasta> that said, ssh can be implemented without a local terminal emulator allocating ptys
Jun 27 15:33:23 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, but do you want a Terminal or SSH client?
Jun 27 15:33:27 <jasta> it can allocate ptys on the remote peer, and just support VT100 happily
Jun 27 15:33:31 <michaelnovakjr> yes
Jun 27 15:33:37 <michaelnovakjr> that is what i'm doing with the iPhone
Jun 27 15:33:41 <jasta> so SSH is much easier to implement.  no need to punch through to ioctl on the local device.
Jun 27 15:34:58 <michaelnovakjr> indeed
Jun 27 15:35:13 <michaelnovakjr> jasta are you looking for a terminal for android or just an ssh client?
Jun 27 15:35:19 <jasta> just ssh.
Jun 27 15:35:32 <michaelnovakjr> i have plans to write one if no one beats me to it
Jun 27 15:35:41 <jasta> i dont imagine i would ever want a terminal independent of a USB tether to a PC :)
Jun 27 15:35:41 <michaelnovakjr> just need the new sdk to get started :)
Jun 27 15:36:35 <jasta> with SSH, it'd be fun to open my irssi screen :)
Jun 27 15:36:49 <jasta> so i could attach into IRC when i go to the bathroom or whatever hehe.  oh yeah, i'm an addict :)
Jun 27 15:36:56 <michaelnovakjr> haha :)
Jun 27 15:37:10 * morrildl shudders
Jun 27 15:37:18 <michaelnovakjr> i was going to make a multi-protocol chat client
Jun 27 15:37:26 <AttractiveApe> yuk
Jun 27 15:37:30 <michaelnovakjr> aim, yahoo, msn, irc
Jun 27 15:37:35 <AttractiveApe> screen keyboard bindings using a touchscreen?
Jun 27 15:37:40 <jasta> i'm not so sure that a multi-protocol approach actually makes sesne for this platform.
Jun 27 15:37:46 <michaelnovakjr> why not?
Jun 27 15:38:03 * morrildl always makes a point to flush loudly and make lots of noise when he hears someone talking on the phone in a bathroom
Jun 27 15:38:08 <jasta> well, it almost makes sense to just write separate applications that interoperate through a shared service
Jun 27 15:38:36 <michaelnovakjr> morrildl: haha
Jun 27 15:38:41 <jasta> i dont talk on my phone in the bathroom.  first of all, the person on the other end can tell.
Jun 27 15:38:55 <jasta> because they can hear that you are an awkwardly closed space, and the acoustics are all screwed up
Jun 27 15:39:00 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, i figured the UI would be the same for any type of chat
Jun 27 15:39:19 <morrildl> you're endangering other people.  didn't you heard about RFC4242, Microfauna Over IP?
Jun 27 15:39:20 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: well, it's not though.  IRC, for example, ought not present itself like AIM.
Jun 27 15:39:38 <michaelnovakjr> true, pidgin opens it up like a chatroom
Jun 27 15:39:41 <jasta> bbl, i gotta head to work
Jun 27 15:40:09 <michaelnovakjr> it should be like an aim im though
Jun 27 15:40:25 <michaelnovakjr> that i think is the best way to set it up on a phone
Jun 27 15:40:33 <morrildl> wtf happened to my fonts
Jun 27 15:40:44 <morrildl> this is the bad old days of Linux all over again
Jun 27 15:40:44 <michaelnovakjr> they on vacation?
Jun 27 15:40:53 <morrildl> heh
Jun 27 15:40:55 <morrildl> maybe?
Jun 27 15:41:03 <morrildl> they're definitely cutting corners, slacking off
Jun 27 15:41:16 <michaelnovakjr> what linux distro?
Jun 27 15:41:20 <morrildl> (got a new box, can't figure out why FF isn't antialiasing)
Jun 27 15:41:34 <morrildl> Ubuntu-derived
Jun 27 15:41:39 <michaelnovakjr> FF3?
Jun 27 15:41:41 <morrildl> yeah
Jun 27 15:41:46 <jasta> FF obeys fonts.conf, which is controlled by both GNOME and KDE font settings.
Jun 27 15:41:55 <jasta> so just make sure that in either, hinting is set to high
Jun 27 15:41:58 <morrildl> well, it SHOULD you mean
Jun 27 15:42:09 <jasta> well, depending on how it was compiled, yes.
Jun 27 15:42:29 <morrildl> ...which is what I am wondering
Jun 27 15:42:41 <morrildl> what I didn't say is that it was derived from Dapper
Jun 27 15:42:47 <morrildl> and the stock FF3 won't run on it
Jun 27 15:43:04 <morrildl> so they have a local build against some ancient GTK 2.6 that Dapper runs
Jun 27 15:43:14 <jasta> morrildl: easy way to tell that
Jun 27 15:43:18 <jasta> ldd, look for fontconfig :)
Jun 27 15:43:47 <morrildl> also I should mention that it's some fonts, not all
Jun 27 15:44:17 <jasta> oh, well that's likely to be freetype not compiled with the fuck-patents defines :)
Jun 27 15:44:19 <michaelnovakjr> how come Dapper?
Jun 27 15:44:28 <morrildl> jasta: heh
Jun 27 15:44:45 <jasta> Debian, some time ago, decided that they should not observe US patents that are inconvenient.
Jun 27 15:44:49 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr: because they haven't finished the corp respin on Hardy yet
Jun 27 15:44:50 <jasta> Ubuntu followed ;)
Jun 27 15:45:09 <jasta> to the best of my knowledge, most Linux distros just ignore inconvenient patents ;)
Jun 27 15:45:16 <morrildl> heh
Jun 27 15:45:30 <jasta> of course they claim it's because they aren't actively enforced and yada yada
Jun 27 15:45:38 <jasta> but it's not hard to tell it's really because they are seriously inconvenient :)
Jun 27 15:45:55 <michaelnovakjr> morrildl: ah
Jun 27 15:47:11 <morrildl> on my Eee I just run Hardy
Jun 27 15:47:29 <michaelnovakjr> how do you like the Eee
Jun 27 15:48:05 <morrildl> I ran Eeedora for a while (because I hate .deb as a packaging format, and am a Red Hat guy of the 0ld sk00l) but I have had to admit that basically Fedora is just over now.  It's all about Ubuntu
Jun 27 15:48:51 <morrildl> michaelnovakjr: it's fun :)  I can't hack on it, though
Jun 27 15:49:00 <morrildl> It's pretty nice to carry around the house & stuff
Jun 27 15:49:05 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Jun 27 15:49:09 <michaelnovakjr> I am using Mandriva
Jun 27 15:49:17 <michaelnovakjr> i dual booted it on my macbook pro
Jun 27 15:51:29 <morrildl> heh, nice
Jun 27 15:51:34 <morrildl> brb
Jun 27 15:52:45 <jasta> i was initially a redhat guy
Jun 27 15:53:00 <jasta> but i switched to debian just a couple of years after that
Jun 27 15:53:06 <michaelnovakjr> i like mandriva... it has worked out of the box on everything i put it on
Jun 27 15:57:29 <jasta> i'm going on a kayaking tour of the san juan islands for my birthday this weekend :)
Jun 27 15:57:49 <jasta> 2 day trip, stopping off at the tour guide companies private island for camping the first night
Jun 27 15:57:52 <jasta> pretty sweet :)
Jun 27 15:58:27 <michaelnovakjr> nice!
Jun 27 15:59:01 <jasta> company's*
Jun 27 15:59:06 <jasta> yeah, im excited
Jun 27 15:59:17 <jasta> i leave for the islands tonight, start kayaking tomorrow morning
Jun 27 15:59:50 <michaelnovakjr> that's awesome
Jun 27 15:59:54 <michaelnovakjr> kayaking is fun
Jun 27 16:00:18 <jasta> ive never really done it
Jun 27 16:00:49 <michaelnovakjr> its definitely fun
Jun 27 16:01:49 <jasta> i once canoed 3 miles in the puget sound at midnight, though.
Jun 27 16:02:16 <jasta> to blake island: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blake+island&sll=47.67502,-122.300524&sspn=0.006516,0.011523&ie=UTF8&ll=47.552896,-122.513008&spn=0.104502,0.184364&z=12&iwloc=addr
Jun 27 16:02:38 <jasta> that was probably one of the most absurdly dangerous things ive ever done
Jun 27 16:02:46 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 16:02:50 <jasta> there's a ferry line that runs through there, and the last boat runs 45 minutes after we launched.
Jun 27 17:04:11 <jasta> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/msg/be2930538d39eff9
Jun 27 17:04:12 <jasta> interesting
Jun 27 17:18:07 <michaelnovakjr> so wifi is not in the first release huh
Jun 27 17:18:37 <jasta> http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/5/some_android_apps_that_didn_t_win_the_developer_challenge_goog_
Jun 27 17:18:44 <jasta> interesting, i didnt see that get posted
Jun 27 17:19:03 <jasta> got a bunch of referrers from there on my google code page
Jun 27 17:20:43 <michaelnovakjr> nice, you've got a high listing
Jun 27 17:25:58 <jasta> http://www.hometheaternetwork.com/autoHTN.php -- that app looks nice and practical too
Jun 27 17:26:19 <muthu> yeah, the home control app - that looked sleek and useful
Jun 27 17:28:54 <jasta> i'd like to see an app like bemused come out.
Jun 27 17:29:21 <jasta> but is layered above the transport, so it could work over Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, GPRS/EDGE/UMTS, etc.
Jun 27 17:30:10 <muthu> wow, a shoe based phone
Jun 27 17:30:12 <muthu> that would be cool
Jun 27 17:30:20 <jasta> what?
Jun 27 17:30:45 <muthu> a phone in your shoe
Jun 27 17:30:53 <jasta> right, where'd you see that?
Jun 27 17:30:57 <muthu> with accelrometer and stuff
Jun 27 17:31:44 <muthu> http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/c600d8fe1145113f
Jun 27 17:34:27 <muthu> http://tech.nocr.at/tech/google-employees-get-special-toilets/
Jun 27 17:34:29 <muthu> woah
Jun 27 17:34:38 <muthu> how spoiled are those folks ;)
Jun 27 17:40:26 <romainguy_> yeah the toilets are pretty weird at Google
Jun 27 17:42:55 <jasta> what, really?
Jun 27 17:43:26 <romainguy_> yeah, with the remote to adjust the water spray (pressure, temperature) and the seat (temperature)
Jun 27 17:46:15 <jasta> you've gotta be kidding me
Jun 27 17:46:31 <romainguy_> no
Jun 27 17:46:42 <romainguy_> the link muthu posted shows the remote
Jun 27 17:46:44 <jasta> that is so utterly ridiculous
Jun 27 17:47:03 <romainguy_> yes but a warm seat is actually nice :)
Jun 27 17:49:36 <muthu> i would rather prefer a regular one
Jun 27 17:50:04 <muthu> romainguy_: is every one of them like that?
Jun 27 17:50:16 <romainguy_> no, not all of them
Jun 27 17:50:21 <romainguy_> depends on the building
Jun 27 17:50:32 <muthu> ok, then it should be fine
Jun 27 17:51:30 <muthu> romainguy_: any plan on a India developer day?
Jun 27 17:51:38 <romainguy_> I have no idea
Jun 27 17:51:41 <muthu> come over to chennai, i'll show you around
Jun 27 17:51:44 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 17:51:47 <romainguy_> I'd love to
Jun 27 17:51:52 <Dougie187> he will introduce you to all the hookers.
Jun 27 17:51:56 <Dougie187> ;)
Jun 27 17:52:02 <muthu> Dougie187: grow up dude
Jun 27 17:52:08 <Dougie187> im kidding.
Jun 27 17:52:08 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 17:52:14 <AttractiveApe> I thought it was funny :/
Jun 27 17:52:19 <Dougie187> i heard something about some place in india on conan the other day
Jun 27 17:52:28 <muthu> oh yeah, there's all kind of places
Jun 27 17:52:31 <muthu> you get everything
Jun 27 17:52:54 <muthu> just like any other place in the world
Jun 27 17:53:09 <Dougie187> Some guy was saying, "Come here and Ill show you to all the ladies!"
Jun 27 17:53:17 <Dougie187> "oh wait, your married? maybe not then"
Jun 27 17:53:30 <muthu> there's this infamous red light district
Jun 27 17:54:10 <muthu> an india trip would clean your soul
Jun 27 17:54:21 <dmoffett> Man I need that.
Jun 27 17:54:26 <jasta> but dirty every other part of you :)
Jun 27 17:54:26 <muthu> then when you get back you'll start appreciating  your life and family more than ever
Jun 27 17:54:30 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 17:54:35 <muthu> true, its dirty
Jun 27 17:54:40 <muthu> and chaotic
Jun 27 17:54:44 <muthu> that's the beauty of it
Jun 27 17:54:44 <Dougie187> your soul might be clean, but your junk will have every std imaginary.
Jun 27 17:54:54 <muthu> haha
Jun 27 17:55:02 <muthu> i'm saying come on a visit
Jun 27 17:55:07 <muthu> then run away after a while
Jun 27 17:55:11 <muthu> :)
Jun 27 17:55:14 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 17:55:21 <Dougie187> Do you belly dance muthu?
Jun 27 17:55:34 <dmoffett> Let's hope not.
Jun 27 17:55:41 <Dougie187> hes not a bad looking fellow.
Jun 27 17:56:01 <muthu> hehe
Jun 27 17:56:03 <dmoffett> I guess if you are into that kind of thing.
Jun 27 17:56:25 <Dougie187> maybe his wife is.
Jun 27 17:56:32 <jasta> there are a few places in the world that i honestly don't believe i'll ever willingly go
Jun 27 17:56:41 <dmoffett> Of course he has stayed in SF quite a while.
Jun 27 17:56:42 <jasta> Mexico and India are both on that list.
Jun 27 17:57:01 <jasta> i've heard so many horror stories of friends going to india and it being just miserable.
Jun 27 17:57:02 <muthu> jasta: that's why you would never grow up
Jun 27 17:57:31 <dmoffett> I am pretty sure Jasta does not want to grow up.  :-)
Jun 27 17:57:37 <Dougie187> lol i dont.
Jun 27 17:57:43 <Dougie187> growing up is for losers.
Jun 27 17:57:44 <muthu> lol, yeah Dougie187 too
Jun 27 17:57:54 <muthu> Dougie187: and jasta: they are some pair!
Jun 27 17:58:05 <jasta> every person i know going to India was sick for a week
Jun 27 17:58:06 <Dougie187> in opposite corners of the US
Jun 27 17:58:20 <Dougie187> just make yourself an iron stomach
Jun 27 17:58:32 <jasta> and 2 of my female friends that have gone reported being repeatedly groped on public transit and in crowded lines
Jun 27 17:58:32 <Dougie187> Doesnt india have that river...
Jun 27 17:58:35 <Dougie187> that people bathe in?
Jun 27 17:58:45 <muthu> lol
Jun 27 17:59:02 <muthu> Dougie187: you mean we all bathe in a river?
Jun 27 17:59:05 <muthu> haha
Jun 27 17:59:12 <muthu> India is diverse man
Jun 27 17:59:14 <Dougie187> no, there was some famour river.
Jun 27 17:59:16 <muthu> you see all extremes
Jun 27 17:59:19 <Dougie187> famous river.
Jun 27 17:59:22 <Dougie187> and people bathe in it.
Jun 27 17:59:25 <Dougie187> in this big city.
Jun 27 17:59:30 <jasta> muthu: the extremes of human behaviour would make for a very unwelcoming place.
Jun 27 17:59:37 <Dougie187> but its like the dirtest river in the world as well.
Jun 27 17:59:41 <Dougie187> it has sewage in it and stuff.
Jun 27 17:59:57 <muthu> jasta: agree, its not fully developed and civilized
Jun 27 17:59:59 <muthu> that's the fact
Jun 27 18:00:04 <jasta> what's the attraction, even?
Jun 27 18:00:05 <Dougie187> so people bathe in poop...
Jun 27 18:00:13 <Dougie187> i thought it was in india.
Jun 27 18:00:14 <Dougie187> but im not sure.
Jun 27 18:00:25 <Dougie187> i heard about it a long time ago.
Jun 27 18:00:29 <muthu> jasta: the attraction is to experience the opposites
Jun 27 18:00:34 <jasta> there are lots of places in southeast asia for example that are horrible and undeveloped, but still have a lot of natural beauty and charm.  india has...? :)
Jun 27 18:00:41 <muthu> what?
Jun 27 18:00:51 <muthu> india has the most beautiful places in the world
Jun 27 18:01:06 <muthu> visit kerela
Jun 27 18:01:07 <muthu> goa
Jun 27 18:01:20 <muthu> everystate has its own magical charms
Jun 27 18:01:30 <muthu> and its not stereotyped like here
Jun 27 18:01:48 <muthu> as i told you before, even i am a foreigner in india
Jun 27 18:02:25 <jasta> i remain unconvinced.
Jun 27 18:02:29 <jasta> i hear you, it just sounds awful.
Jun 27 18:02:34 <jasta> where you believe it is great.
Jun 27 18:02:39 <muthu> its not for everyone
Jun 27 18:02:41 <jasta> Mexico and India, I'm telling you :)
Jun 27 18:02:50 <jasta> sucky, miserable places
Jun 27 18:02:52 <muthu> jasta: you'll be safe here.. don't leave
Jun 27 18:03:03 <Dougie187> Mexcio doesnt sound great.
Jun 27 18:03:13 <jasta> i've got tentative plans for Thailand in 2009
Jun 27 18:03:14 <Dougie187> Only if you want cheap booze.
Jun 27 18:03:17 <jasta> now that will be fun
Jun 27 18:03:21 <dmoffett> Jasta: you said the same about Utah,  Have you traveled outsite your home town?
Jun 27 18:03:25 <Dougie187> I hear Thailand is nice.
Jun 27 18:03:40 <jasta> dmoffett: Yes, many times.  I've been to quite a few places in the US and Canada.
Jun 27 18:03:45 <muthu> Utah is a beautiful place
Jun 27 18:03:47 <Dougie187> dmoffett: but seriously... Utah doesnt have anything. thats like saying you want to go to Wyoming
Jun 27 18:04:06 <dmoffett> Really?
Jun 27 18:04:07 <Dougie187> Both places are incredibly lame.
Jun 27 18:04:08 <jasta> Utah has a general religious climate that is very unwelcoming, as well.
Jun 27 18:04:08 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 18:04:15 <dmoffett> How bout Lake Powell?
Jun 27 18:04:26 <dmoffett> Zion National Park?
Jun 27 18:04:28 <Dougie187> there are nice lakes almost anywhere.
Jun 27 18:04:32 <dmoffett> Arches Nation Park?
Jun 27 18:04:41 <muthu> I would love to go to Utah
Jun 27 18:04:42 <dmoffett> Canyon lands Nation Park?
Jun 27 18:04:43 <Dougie187> I havent been to those national parks. but what is awesome in them?
Jun 27 18:04:47 <muthu> looks like a fabulous place
Jun 27 18:04:53 <dmoffett> Look it up on the internet.
Jun 27 18:05:01 <dmoffett> Moab Utah?
Jun 27 18:05:07 <Dougie187> muthu: I would say, you can see any of the benefits of Utah in other states. that have better things in them as well.
Jun 27 18:05:08 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:05:17 <dmoffett> Mountian biking mecca?
Jun 27 18:05:18 <muthu> Dougie187: no
Jun 27 18:05:20 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:05:27 <Dougie187> no?
Jun 27 18:05:30 <Dougie187> but you havent been there?
Jun 27 18:05:44 <dmoffett> Snowbird Utah
Jun 27 18:05:47 <muthu> i would love to
Jun 27 18:05:49 <dmoffett> Alta,
Jun 27 18:05:52 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:05:53 <jasta> I'm not going to claim that there isn't charm to be found everywhere.
Jun 27 18:06:01 <muthu> wow.. the utah list keeps growing
Jun 27 18:06:01 <dmoffett> Some of the best skiing in the world.
Jun 27 18:06:07 <jasta> But there's a reason why the population desnity is miserably low in these places.
Jun 27 18:06:11 <jasta> Apart from their niches, there is nothing.
Jun 27 18:06:20 <Dougie187> jasta: im not claiming that either, im just saying that the charms there can be found anywhere in that area.
Jun 27 18:06:23 <dmoffett> Driest powder known.
Jun 27 18:06:26 <muthu> jasta: population? come on!
Jun 27 18:06:28 <jasta> Backwards social problems are more prominent than natural beauty :)
Jun 27 18:06:46 <muthu> social problems are everywhere
Jun 27 18:06:47 <dmoffett> Give me a break.
Jun 27 18:06:51 <muthu> you can't run and hide from them
Jun 27 18:07:05 <Dougie187> dmoffett: afaik Aspen is more well know for skiing then Utah
Jun 27 18:07:09 <jasta> muthu: I'm talking about a very particular kind in Utah :)
Jun 27 18:07:21 <muthu> jasta: what's that?
Jun 27 18:07:29 <jasta> Extremely severe religious intolerance
Jun 27 18:07:38 <dmoffett> That is bullshit.
Jun 27 18:07:46 <dmoffett> Mormans are fine.
Jun 27 18:07:54 <dmoffett> I deal with them all the time.
Jun 27 18:07:56 <jasta> Hehe, is it?  My mom's girlfriend is mormon.
Jun 27 18:08:00 <Dougie187> ... not fundamentalist mormons.
Jun 27 18:08:03 <jasta> Lived her entire life in Utah
Jun 27 18:08:21 <jasta> And her family won't speka to her, and she's excommunicated from the churhc.  Her friends told her never to return.
Jun 27 18:08:23 <Dougie187> but fundamentalist anythings arnt good.
Jun 27 18:08:26 <jasta> Sooooooo :)
Jun 27 18:08:29 <dmoffett> There are crazy people in any religion.
Jun 27 18:08:38 <muthu> right
Jun 27 18:08:39 <Dougie187> Like that community in texas.
Jun 27 18:08:43 <muthu> crazy people are everywhere
Jun 27 18:08:50 <dmoffett> That like saying I know this guy Jasta and all nerds are assholes.
Jun 27 18:08:53 <jasta> dmoffett: Yes, and they are well concentrated in Utah :)
Jun 27 18:08:58 <muthu> lol
Jun 27 18:09:38 <jasta> Also, we have an office in Meridian, ID that I've visited several times.  That place scares the hell out of me.
Jun 27 18:09:45 <muthu> commenting about something without experiencing firsthand is plain wrong
Jun 27 18:10:00 <Dougie187> ... muthu, ive been to utah.
Jun 27 18:10:16 <muthu> how long Dougie187?
Jun 27 18:10:17 <dmoffett> I bet you have met many mormans and did not know it.
Jun 27 18:10:26 <Dougie187> well i was there for a week just last year.
Jun 27 18:10:31 <Dougie187> and ive driven through it many times.
Jun 27 18:10:37 <jasta> dmoffett: Only because I didn't say anything but "howdy" :)
Jun 27 18:10:43 <muthu> a week is not enough
Jun 27 18:10:51 <muthu> to understand people and culture
Jun 27 18:10:53 <Dougie187> lol, sorry i didnt have a month to waste.
Jun 27 18:10:58 <muthu> hehe
Jun 27 18:11:02 <dmoffett> Just like any group of people they have freaks.
Jun 27 18:11:05 <Dougie187> muthu, in the us, you dont need to study the people and culture.
Jun 27 18:11:24 <muthu> Dougie187: In US there are different kinds of people and culture
Jun 27 18:11:29 <Dougie187> yes,
Jun 27 18:11:34 <Dougie187> but you dont need to study them.
Jun 27 18:11:43 <Dougie187> especially if thats not what you are interested in.
Jun 27 18:11:55 <muthu> that shows you don't have a clue about people
Jun 27 18:11:59 <jasta> I appreciate what you both are trying to say, I just simply don't agree that these subcultures are being represented by their "crazy" outliars.
Jun 27 18:11:59 <muthu> and you are generally prejudiced
Jun 27 18:12:00 <Dougie187> ...
Jun 27 18:12:07 <jasta> I believe, in fact, that the generalized stereotypes have significant merit.
Jun 27 18:12:22 <jasta> And I've seen them manifested enough times to reasonably operate on that belief.
Jun 27 18:12:23 <Dougie187> like rednecks in the south.
Jun 27 18:12:45 <jasta> Yes, if you're in Texas, don't go around blabbing about your gay friends and how much you like Barack Obama, for example.
Jun 27 18:12:56 <jasta> If you're in Seattle, don't do the opposite :)
Jun 27 18:13:06 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 18:13:18 <jasta> It's because the manifestations of these stereotypes are real, and common.
Jun 27 18:13:20 <Dougie187> hell theres this segragated town about an hour north of me.
Jun 27 18:13:21 <Kraln> you know
Jun 27 18:13:23 <jasta> And there is reason to act on that.
Jun 27 18:13:24 <Kraln> in austin
Jun 27 18:13:27 <Kraln> that's just not true
Jun 27 18:13:50 <Dougie187> muthu: go to the northeast
Jun 27 18:13:51 <muthu> jasta: you can't just say texas
Jun 27 18:13:55 <Dougie187> go visit new england.
Jun 27 18:14:03 <Dougie187> and pennsylvania
Jun 27 18:14:05 <muthu> i've met a lot of great people in texas
Jun 27 18:14:13 <muthu> the nicest people i've ever met are in houston
Jun 27 18:14:16 <muthu> where i lived for sometime
Jun 27 18:14:21 <jasta> muthu: Yes, I can.  Because I didn't say all Texans are something, I said that you just should think about where you are, and what stereotypes surround you.
Jun 27 18:14:28 <Dougie187> i find that incredibly hard to believe muthu
Jun 27 18:14:34 <jasta> And don't go around advertising contentious ideas that are likely to offend in that area.
Jun 27 18:14:35 <muthu> Dougie187: that's true
Jun 27 18:14:48 <Dougie187> noone in texas was incredibly nice when i was there.
Jun 27 18:14:50 <muthu> compare to the bayareans here.. i would say the texans are great!
Jun 27 18:14:55 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:14:59 <Dougie187> your in a big city.
Jun 27 18:15:06 <Dougie187> i guess if you compare big cities.
Jun 27 18:15:19 <Dougie187> and SF people are generally not known for their friendlyness.
Jun 27 18:15:32 <muthu> SF is strange, isolated and alone
Jun 27 18:15:43 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:15:52 <Dougie187> i like how our conversations are always arguments over places.
Jun 27 18:16:13 <muthu> different locations, different people, different culture
Jun 27 18:16:15 <muthu> that's the point
Jun 27 18:16:23 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 18:16:36 <Dougie187> but you hardly ever go visit somehere because of the people
Jun 27 18:16:39 <Dougie187> its usually the locations
Jun 27 18:16:43 <muthu> yes, you do
Jun 27 18:16:43 <Dougie187> you want to see something
Jun 27 18:16:49 <Dougie187> not experience the people.
Jun 27 18:16:53 <muthu> its a combination
Jun 27 18:16:57 <muthu> which wins
Jun 27 18:16:58 <Dougie187> i disagree
Jun 27 18:17:09 <Dougie187> i have never gone on a vacation to hang out with locals.
Jun 27 18:17:16 <dmoffett> I think a lot of people visit Thailand for the people.
Jun 27 18:17:37 <dmoffett> At least that is what I hear.  :-)
Jun 27 18:17:44 <muthu> oh yeah
Jun 27 18:17:50 <Dougie187> i would think that would happen after they go there first to visit the country.
Jun 27 18:18:02 <Dougie187> ive never heard of anyone going to thailand for the people to begin with
Jun 27 18:18:05 <Dougie187> but they go back for the people
Jun 27 18:18:19 <muthu> that's why its places + people
Jun 27 18:18:35 <Dougie187> lol i feel like your grasping
Jun 27 18:18:41 <muthu> weight them both, and you would be wiser
Jun 27 18:18:46 <muthu> pure location is bullshit
Jun 27 18:19:14 <dmoffett> Dougie187: it was a joke.  Thailand is know for sex tours.  However, I don;t have first hand experience.
Jun 27 18:20:18 <muthu> so anyone visit chennai, let me know
Jun 27 18:20:51 <dmoffett> will do
Jun 27 18:21:22 <muthu> cool
Jun 27 18:22:08 <Dougie187> lol dmoffett you mean, you have never heard of people going to Thailand for people?
Jun 27 18:22:44 <dmoffett> Can't say that I really know anyone that has been to Thailand.
Jun 27 18:22:49 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:22:49 <Dougie187> ok
Jun 27 18:22:55 <Dougie187> i had mormon friends who went
Jun 27 18:22:57 <Dougie187> first on a mission.
Jun 27 18:23:04 <Dougie187> but then moved there because of the people
Jun 27 18:23:09 <dmoffett> Cool
Jun 27 18:24:41 <muthu> http://www.flickr.com/photos/barackobamadotcom/2616114282/
Jun 27 18:26:39 <Dougie187> the funny part about the us.
Jun 27 18:26:51 <Dougie187> is most of the time the stereotypes are right for cultures
Jun 27 18:27:09 <Dougie187> they might not be as extreme as the stereotypes.
Jun 27 18:27:15 <muthu> look outside the stereotypes
Jun 27 18:27:20 <muthu> stereotypes are for dummies
Jun 27 18:27:27 <Dougie187> how many places have you been in the US muthu?
Jun 27 18:27:47 <muthu> a few
Jun 27 18:27:53 <Dougie187> like 4?
Jun 27 18:28:12 <muthu> more than that
Jun 27 18:28:16 <Dougie187> like 10?
Jun 27 18:28:26 <muthu> yeah, what's the point?
Jun 27 18:28:53 <Dougie187> well you just keep talking like you know a lot about the people in the US
Jun 27 18:29:16 <muthu> nope, i just said keep your minds open
Jun 27 18:29:26 <Dougie187> my mind is open, but its not what im looking for.
Jun 27 18:29:31 <Dougie187> i dont care how the people act anywhere.
Jun 27 18:29:42 <muthu> and don't believe the stereotypes, that you hear from the media
Jun 27 18:29:42 <Dougie187> thats not important to me.
Jun 27 18:29:50 <muthu> for example
Jun 27 18:29:52 <Dougie187> lol, its not what you hear from the media.
Jun 27 18:29:52 <muthu> India
Jun 27 18:30:11 <muthu> people would go into this stupid little stereotype that had been created by the media
Jun 27 18:30:22 <Dougie187> i dont even have a stereotype for india.
Jun 27 18:30:23 <muthu> look outside that
Jun 27 18:30:23 <Dougie187> actually
Jun 27 18:30:35 <Dougie187> i dont know what indian people are like.
Jun 27 18:30:50 <muthu> as david was saying, freaks are everywhere
Jun 27 18:30:51 <Dougie187> i think the only stereotype that I have ever heard actually, is that a lof of them have call center jobs.
Jun 27 18:31:08 <Dougie187> they get our outsourced tech-support work.
Jun 27 18:31:16 <Dougie187> i think thats the only stereotype ive heard.
Jun 27 18:31:43 <muthu> that's what i said, there more to a place than stereotypes
Jun 27 18:32:02 <Dougie187> especially since this stereotype is about work.
Jun 27 18:32:07 <Dougie187> that doesnt tell you anything about the place.
Jun 27 18:32:18 <Dougie187> but im saying, stereotypes aren't what would keep me from going somewhere.
Jun 27 18:32:35 <Dougie187> granted, if the stereotype is that my wife would get groped by everyone, i can almost gaurentee that i would never go there with her.
Jun 27 18:32:48 <Dougie187> unless murder is legal there.
Jun 27 18:32:51 <muthu> that's not true
Jun 27 18:33:07 <Dougie187> but for me its enough that one person has had that experience.
Jun 27 18:33:16 <Dougie187> i wouldnt want to subject my wife to that.
Jun 27 18:33:25 <muthu> i can understand
Jun 27 18:33:30 <muthu> but that's not common
Jun 27 18:33:47 <Dougie187> but i bet you could tell the person that it happened to that same thing and she would never go back still.
Jun 27 18:33:55 <Dougie187> and i thought last time we had this conversation about that you said it does happen.
Jun 27 18:34:36 <muthu> its like saying, i'll be mobbed if i walk downtown pretty late..
Jun 27 18:34:52 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:34:58 <muthu> you can have bad experiences anywhere
Jun 27 18:35:08 <Dougie187> or like saying you will run into a scary ass homeless person on the subway
Jun 27 18:35:18 <muthu> right
Jun 27 18:35:24 <Dougie187> but that happens all the time.
Jun 27 18:35:26 <muthu> its everywhere around
Jun 27 18:35:35 <Dougie187> i dont know a statistic on getting mobbed though
Jun 27 18:35:41 <muthu> being informed when we go to a new place, is the wise thing to do
Jun 27 18:35:45 <Dougie187> yeah, and those are things i try to avoid.
Jun 27 18:36:03 <muthu> when bill gates, to guy kawasaki, to seth godin to all of the billionaries can visit india
Jun 27 18:36:05 <muthu> what's the problem?
Jun 27 18:37:00 <muthu> and then here's this Dougie187 and jasta who say, Bill gates is stupid for visiting india
Jun 27 18:37:02 <muthu> lol
Jun 27 18:37:11 <Dougie187> lol i never said that.
Jun 27 18:37:19 <Dougie187> i never said anyone was stupid for visiting india.
Jun 27 18:37:24 <Dougie187> if people want to visit india go for it.
Jun 27 18:37:25 <Dougie187> i dont care.
Jun 27 18:37:29 <Dougie187> im just saying i probably wont.
Jun 27 18:37:44 <muthu> cool, but all i say is good and bad exists everywhere
Jun 27 18:38:18 <Dougie187> yeah i understand that.
Jun 27 18:38:33 <Dougie187> and i avoid as much bad as i can
Jun 27 18:38:33 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 18:39:17 <muthu> yeah, that's what everyone does
Jun 27 18:41:01 <muthu> people are the same all over the world
Jun 27 18:41:13 <muthu> that's the truth
Jun 27 18:47:37 <Dougie187> So you guys got awesome plans for this weekend?
Jun 27 18:50:30 <muthu> oh yeah
Jun 27 18:50:46 <muthu> my plan is to packup and leave :)
Jun 27 18:50:55 <Dougie187> oh yeah your out of here soon
Jun 27 18:50:58 <Dougie187> you excited?
Jun 27 18:51:12 <muthu> big time
Jun 27 18:51:18 <muthu> can't wait to see my family back home
Jun 27 18:51:23 <Dougie187> lol you ever going to go on a month trip again?
Jun 27 18:51:25 <muthu> there's no place like home!
Jun 27 18:51:39 <muthu> Dougie187: nope, 15 days is just right
Jun 27 18:51:54 <Dougie187> heh
Jun 27 18:52:12 <muthu> if its  a month trip, it will be with my family
Jun 27 18:52:38 <muthu> need to do some shopping today
Jun 27 19:35:03 <jasta> muthu: i'm going kayaking around the san juan islands this weekend
Jun 27 19:35:11 <jasta> its my birthday present from my girl
Jun 27 19:35:14 <muthu> wow!
Jun 27 19:35:25 <muthu> you have a great girlfriend then..
Jun 27 19:35:44 <muthu> have fun
Jun 27 19:36:31 <jasta> 2 full days, camping on the expedition company's island
Jun 27 19:36:37 <jasta> im stoked
Jun 27 19:36:54 <muthu> jasta: get married :)
Jun 27 19:36:58 <michaelnovakjr> ha
Jun 27 19:37:02 <michaelnovakjr> wait trust me
Jun 27 19:37:05 <jasta> yeah, ha.
Jun 27 19:37:28 <michaelnovakjr> no need to hand over your manhood yet :)
Jun 27 19:37:39 <jasta> i'm not getting married until it becomes financially advantageous to do so
Jun 27 19:37:44 <anno^da> :D
Jun 27 19:37:54 <jasta> and since i make an order of magnitude more than my girlfriend now, it's not time. ;)
Jun 27 19:38:03 <muthu> haha
Jun 27 19:38:09 <muthu> money is not everything
Jun 27 19:38:15 <jasta> money is all marriage is about.
Jun 27 19:38:28 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 19:38:40 <jasta> marriage in the US forms a binding legal and financial entity.  that is the only functional effect.
Jun 27 19:38:43 <muthu> money is a small part of our life
Jun 27 19:38:55 <anno^da> true true
Jun 27 19:39:01 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, the only recognized effect
Jun 27 19:39:06 <muthu> yeah, but you can have all sort of contracts
Jun 27 19:39:16 <muthu> you can keep the finance seperate, if you want
Jun 27 19:39:23 <jasta> muthu: no, you can't.
Jun 27 19:39:30 <michaelnovakjr> yea, you definitely can't :)
Jun 27 19:39:38 <michaelnovakjr> ask the guys who are divorced
Jun 27 19:39:40 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 27 19:39:42 <jasta> you can try to protect certain assets, but not everything.
Jun 27 19:39:49 <jasta> and even then, you can only _TRY_ to protect them.
Jun 27 19:39:55 <muthu> really
Jun 27 19:39:58 <jasta> yes.
Jun 27 19:40:03 <muthu> i thougt, there's something that you can sign
Jun 27 19:40:03 <michaelnovakjr> yea, in the end you'll pay her salary
Jun 27 19:40:13 <jasta> for example, if you want to leave your wife out of your will as a beneficiary, you must have her signature.
Jun 27 19:40:25 <michaelnovakjr> hah
Jun 27 19:40:40 <muthu> correct
Jun 27 19:40:42 <jasta> if she refuses, you have no legal option.
Jun 27 19:40:47 <muthu> celebrities do that a lot
Jun 27 19:40:51 <muthu> to keep their money safe
Jun 27 19:40:56 <jasta> celebrities lose millions a lot in failed marriages.
Jun 27 19:41:13 <jasta> prenuptial agreements are actually quite weak and limited.  most people have no idea what the real text of these are.
Jun 27 19:41:25 <muthu> yeah, prenups
Jun 27 19:41:28 <jasta> btw, if you're curious: http://www.sea-quest-kayak.com/sea-kayaking-washington-kayak-seattle.htm -- that's my trip.
Jun 27 19:41:30 <muthu> that's what i was saying
Jun 27 19:41:35 <dmoffett> Jasta: have you checked the common law marriage?  You might already be married.  :-)
Jun 27 19:41:36 <michaelnovakjr> lesson learned: marry a celebrity
Jun 27 19:41:41 <muthu> lol
Jun 27 19:41:46 <muthu> jasta already married!
Jun 27 19:41:49 <jasta> dmoffett: The common law marriage is also VERY weak.  It can be trivially defeated.
Jun 27 19:41:59 <dmoffett> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage
Jun 27 19:42:03 <jasta> But even according to commonlaw, i'm not married.  I've only been with her for 2 years.
Jun 27 19:42:13 <dmoffett> Yeah I have no idea.
Jun 27 19:42:21 <muthu> how many years for common law?
Jun 27 19:43:07 <muthu> Lindt Chilli
Jun 27 19:43:07 <jasta> muthu: differs from state to state, and most states dont even have it
Jun 27 19:43:10 <muthu> hmm.. yummy
Jun 27 19:43:27 <muthu> jasta: how about seattle?
Jun 27 19:43:37 <jasta> washington, the state in which i live, does not have it.
Jun 27 19:43:37 <yakischloba> jasta: san juans will be beautiful right now
Jun 27 19:43:48 <jasta> yakischloba: no kidding, it's supposed to be in the 70s and 80s this weekend
Jun 27 19:43:55 <yakischloba> jasta: its gorgeous right now
Jun 27 19:43:58 <yakischloba> jasta: where do you live at?
Jun 27 19:44:03 <jasta> Seattle
Jun 27 19:44:09 <yakischloba> same here ;)
Jun 27 19:44:16 <jasta> really?  no kidding.
Jun 27 19:44:29 <yakischloba> yeah. I live on Capitol Hill and work down in the SODO area.
Jun 27 19:44:29 <jasta> which neighborhood, if you don't mind?
Jun 27 19:44:38 <yakischloba> and you?
Jun 27 19:44:40 <jasta> nice, i live in Ravenna and work SODO as well.
Jun 27 19:44:54 <yakischloba> Hah. where in sodo? I'm at 6th & S Massachusetts
Jun 27 19:45:05 <jasta> wow, 7th and Michigan
Jun 27 19:45:08 <yakischloba> hahaha
Jun 27 19:45:12 <yakischloba> i could throw a rock at you
Jun 27 19:45:15 <jasta> hehe
Jun 27 19:45:57 <yakischloba> thats exaggerating really but. you're only 2 miles or so south i'd figure
Jun 27 19:46:10 <jasta> you must have some arm :)
Jun 27 19:46:24 <jasta> yeah, wow, that's incredible :)
Jun 27 19:46:24 <yakischloba> yeah lots of jerking off at work all day.
Jun 27 19:46:35 <jasta> how long you been in Seattle?
Jun 27 19:46:50 <yakischloba> all my life. I grew up on Bainbridge Island (and actually lived in the San Juans as well when I was a baby)
Jun 27 19:47:10 <jasta> i grew up in Renton, then Port Orchard, moved to Seattle 3 years ago
Jun 27 19:47:20 <jasta> lived in the U District at first, which was insane.
Jun 27 19:47:27 <yakischloba> somehow I had it in my head that you were a socal guy, I don't know why I thought that.
Jun 27 19:47:34 <yakischloba> yeah I can't stand that area. I'd never even consider it
Jun 27 19:47:46 <jasta> well, i kind of fell into it.  long story.
Jun 27 19:47:50 <jasta> i didnt know what i was getting into :)
Jun 27 19:48:00 <yakischloba> I'm actually looking to move to a quieter area right now, capitol hill is getting out of hand, both in price and population.
Jun 27 19:48:10 <jasta> yakischloba: i have friends in socal, and was at I/O so i was there not too long ago...
Jun 27 19:48:31 <yakischloba> that musta been it.
Jun 27 19:48:45 <jasta> yeah, i actually looked at capitol hill last year before i renewed at my current place
Jun 27 19:48:51 <jasta> didn't seem like a good fit
Jun 27 19:49:07 <jasta> also, you can't beat the deal i've got goin on...
Jun 27 19:49:13 <yakischloba> When the weather is nice like this, you can barely walk down the sidewalk, let alone find a seat in a restaurant or bar
Jun 27 19:49:21 <jasta> i rent a 3000 sq ft house with 3 friends for $2160/mo :)
Jun 27 19:49:58 <jasta> yeah, my next destination is probably going to be Wallingford or Fremont
Jun 27 19:50:09 <jasta> i love the north side :)
Jun 27 19:50:47 <jasta> yakischloba: so what's your involvement with Android?  you're new to this channel, right?
Jun 27 19:51:29 <yakischloba> I pay 735 for an itty bitty studio. I don't know what I was thinking really. my lease is up in September and I'll be looking for something cheaper (or bigger)
Jun 27 19:52:04 <jasta> my friend just moved to Pioneer Square and found an enormous studio for only $1K/mo
Jun 27 19:52:12 <jasta> it's impressive
Jun 27 19:52:34 <jasta> recently remodeled kitchen too
Jun 27 19:52:40 <yakischloba> I've been lurking for 2-3 months. When Android was fresh and new I got excited about learning Java so I could write Android apps but so far I haven't found the time. Not to mention I realized I have no idea what kind of app I would write
Jun 27 19:52:57 <jasta> i learned Java for Android as well
Jun 27 19:53:10 <yakischloba> yeah there are some gorgeous spaces down in that area. Of course they come at the sacrifice of living in the middle of downtown and a clubbing area.
Jun 27 19:53:11 <jasta> it's a more interesting language than i initially realized.
Jun 27 19:53:39 <michaelnovakjr> be careful on how much credit you give java :)
Jun 27 19:53:44 <anno^da> haha :)
Jun 27 19:53:50 <jasta> yakischloba: downtown isn't my scene.  i probably got 6 months at a time before i even go there for any reason :)
Jun 27 19:54:00 <jasta> go*
Jun 27 19:54:31 <jasta> although his studio is close to Fado's, so i'm jealous about that :)
Jun 27 19:54:33 <yakischloba> jasta: its pretty familiar to me since I used to take the ferry to/from Bainbridge all the time but I find little reason to go there anymore
Jun 27 19:54:42 <yakischloba> Fado's?
Jun 27 19:55:06 <jasta> nice irish pub and eatery
Jun 27 19:55:11 <yakischloba> gotcha
Jun 27 19:55:14 <jasta> it's basically the only worthwhile place in all of pioneer square
Jun 27 19:55:46 <yakischloba> heh. I just turned 21 a few weeks ago and haven't had much desire to go exploring yet.
Jun 27 19:56:10 <jasta> i turn 25 sunday :(
Jun 27 19:56:18 <yakischloba> getting old :)
Jun 27 19:56:21 <pawalls> jasta, ancient.
Jun 27 19:56:51 <jasta> yakischloba: are you in school still?
Jun 27 19:56:54 <jasta> or at all?
Jun 27 19:57:12 <yakischloba> No. I dropped out of HS and community college years ago.
Jun 27 19:57:25 <jasta> oh yeah me too hehe
Jun 27 19:58:02 <jasta> what do you do?
Jun 27 19:58:27 <yakischloba> I displayed great ability on the computer when I was younger. I took a CCNA course though community college and thought I wanted to do that, but eventually I burned out and lost interest in the field completely
Jun 27 19:58:37 <Dougie187> jasta, i didnt know you dropped out of hs
Jun 27 19:58:58 <Dougie187> lol that sounds like a resume.
Jun 27 19:59:04 <yakischloba> I had some stupid jobs and then ended up getting a job here working in the warehouse for minimum wage just because I needed a job
Jun 27 19:59:06 <jasta> i didn't really drop out, that implies some gesture
Jun 27 19:59:14 <yakischloba> then I just drifted back into the computer deal
Jun 27 19:59:28 <michaelnovakjr> i just gave up :)
Jun 27 19:59:42 <jasta> i didnt have enough credits to graduate for whatever reason and so was like "well, ok, sure." and never went back
Jun 27 19:59:44 <michaelnovakjr> i get lazy when not challenged :)
Jun 27 19:59:57 <yakischloba> We're a natural foods distributor...so I do a bunch of weird stuff.
Jun 27 20:00:25 <Dougie187> from highschool?
Jun 27 20:00:27 <jasta> yakischloba: you should def. apply yourself some ;)
Jun 27 20:00:29 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah.
Jun 27 20:00:36 <Dougie187> did you get a GED?
Jun 27 20:01:15 <jasta> no, i later learned that nothing in life requires a high school diploma.
Jun 27 20:01:22 <jasta> the only people who check are mcdonalds.
Jun 27 20:01:31 <michaelnovakjr> and google :)
Jun 27 20:01:33 <jasta> going to community college, which i did, doesn't require one.
Jun 27 20:01:51 <jasta> and so i actually have higher education than high school, without ever completing it.
Jun 27 20:01:58 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Jun 27 20:01:59 <jasta> which must somehow transcend taht
Jun 27 20:02:23 <michaelnovakjr> its bill gates 'last' official day at microsoft
Jun 27 20:02:27 <jasta> but at any rate, if nobody suspects you don't have one, no one checks.
Jun 27 20:02:36 <jasta> and no one expects a software engineer not to have one :)
Jun 27 20:02:50 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 27 20:02:52 <jasta> most high schools have such lame record keeping too that you could just seem outraged and claim they lost it
Jun 27 20:03:00 <jasta> and again, if you were a software engineer, everyone would probably believe you.
Jun 27 20:03:26 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 20:03:32 <jasta> colleges also don't require them.  you can skip high school, get an AA, and transfer to a 4 year school without difficulty
Jun 27 20:03:35 <Dougie187> but then in relaity you dont have any integrity.
Jun 27 20:03:48 <Dougie187> because you are lying to your employer about having credentials that you in fact, don't have.
Jun 27 20:04:07 <jasta> so this group of people who "skipped" high school because they were smart are institutionally the same as drop-outs ;)
Jun 27 20:04:09 <Dougie187> lol the without difficulty is all dependant on your grades with your AA
Jun 27 20:04:30 <jasta> Dougie187: no, because you don't have to lie.  again, no one will ask a software engineer if he graduated high school.
Jun 27 20:04:56 <jasta> it's unlikely to ever cross an interviewers mind :)
Jun 27 20:05:07 <yakischloba> jasta: yeah I try. its hard for me to get better at what I want to do while I have a bunch of other responsibilities and interruptions.
Jun 27 20:05:09 <jasta> and it's such an assumed low benchmark that nobody even puts it on a resume
Jun 27 20:05:27 <jasta> yakischloba: if you want my advice, i recommend using your personal time.
Jun 27 20:05:36 <yakischloba> jasta: I do that as well.
Jun 27 20:05:59 <jasta> Dougie187: my life looks very strange on paper :)
Jun 27 20:06:10 <yakischloba> jasta: unfortunately I've worked myself into a financial situation that requires me to work more than I would otherwise :(
Jun 27 20:06:30 <michaelnovakjr> i have noticed that no one cares about formal education if you sound smart
Jun 27 20:06:35 <jasta> yakischloba: well, step #1 is moving out of an expensive capitol hill house ;)
Jun 27 20:06:37 <michaelnovakjr> basically its can you program or not
Jun 27 20:06:44 <yakischloba> jasta: yeah. Waiting on that lease :)
Jun 27 20:06:46 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: no, they care, they just don't often know to ask.
Jun 27 20:07:13 <michaelnovakjr> where i am now all they cared about was seeing apps i had developed
Jun 27 20:07:24 <michaelnovakjr> and where i was before was like that too
Jun 27 20:07:28 <jasta> i think a lot of people care arbitrarily, but they've developed this snooty sense of superiority which wouldn't permit them to question the education of someone they'd otehrwise believe to be a colleague
Jun 27 20:07:45 <jasta> so, again, nobody asks you ;)
Jun 27 20:08:55 <jasta> but if you reveal that detail, it usually will hurt your credibility.
Jun 27 20:09:00 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 27 20:09:02 <michaelnovakjr> for sure
Jun 27 20:09:50 <yakischloba> jasta: its not too bad though. My job is laid back. Provided my responsibilities are taken care of, I'm free to pursue just about anything.
Jun 27 20:10:13 <yakischloba> jasta: I just have more free-work time some weeks than others.
Jun 27 20:10:43 <jasta> yakischloba: sounds like complacence ;)
Jun 27 20:11:12 <jasta> i have a job like that now, and i'm frustrated by it.  ready to move on, for sure.
Jun 27 20:11:31 <yakischloba> jasta: It is, I can't deny that. I'm in my comfort bubble and I'm being a pussy about moving on.
Jun 27 20:12:01 <jasta> i have felt fortunate because i have ambition.  without it, i'd be in a very bad place right now ;)
Jun 27 20:12:02 <yakischloba> jasta: I've made some progress as far as that recently though, so I think the end of my time here is not too far off.
Jun 27 20:12:10 <yakischloba> hah
Jun 27 20:12:26 <yakischloba> I have some ambition as well but sometimes it feels like its not enough.
Jun 27 20:12:37 <yakischloba> Really its just me being lazy
Jun 27 20:12:48 <jasta> well, there's a right way and a wrong way to be lazy.
Jun 27 20:13:25 <jasta> the wrong way is watching tv.  the right way is exploring a way to use a skill you like to replace a task you don't.
Jun 27 20:13:35 <jasta> ;)
Jun 27 20:13:41 <yakischloba> yup :)
Jun 27 20:13:49 <yakischloba> IMO if i'm not moving forward I might as well be moving backwards
Jun 27 20:14:20 <yakischloba> I felt so ahead when I was a bright young lad that I stopped caring to excel and now I've been left in the dust ;)
Jun 27 20:15:09 <jasta> you could always use your smarts to figure out how to really abuse the crap out of the broken society in which you live.
Jun 27 20:15:22 <jasta> make way more money than you deserve, for example.
Jun 27 20:15:25 <yakischloba> heh
Jun 27 20:15:41 <yakischloba> I'd be happy making _as much_ money as I deserve
Jun 27 20:16:08 <jasta> and what would that be?
Jun 27 20:16:54 <yakischloba> I'm not confident putting a price on my time, but its more than the $13.50 an hour I'm trickling in right now.
Jun 27 20:17:42 <jasta> i'd say so.
Jun 27 20:17:50 <jasta> but i think it's a good idea to try putting a price on it.
Jun 27 20:17:56 <michaelnovakjr> definitely
Jun 27 20:17:59 <jasta> it might make your goals feel unreasonably low.
Jun 27 20:18:00 <yakischloba> It is.
Jun 27 20:19:43 <jasta> well you think about it :)
Jun 27 20:19:47 <yakischloba> heh
Jun 27 20:19:59 <jasta> i gotta start thinking about getting to the store and getting ready for this trip this weekend
Jun 27 20:20:39 <jasta> not that i know anything, but i'm betting the mobile industry is going to explode in the next 10 years, and a lot of people are going to get jobs at salaries they clearly don't deserve.
Jun 27 20:20:44 <jasta> you could be one of them ;)
Jun 27 20:20:56 <yakischloba> I gotta start thinking about getting my administrative garbage done for the day so I can settle in and write some code.
Jun 27 20:21:04 <yakischloba> yeah I'm hoping I'm not too far behind the curve right now.
Jun 27 20:21:38 <jasta> You're not at all.  In fact, not going to college, you're still somewhat ahead of it.
Jun 27 20:22:10 <yakischloba> I'm just having a hard time weighing my options and thinking about what I really want to do. Right now I have so much variety in my little IT world that I never get bored. I'm not sure if sitting down and grinding out code for 50 hours a week is something I could/want to do.
Jun 27 20:22:42 <yakischloba> I could move into some zZz sysadmin job right now for something like twice what I make now, but I'm scared of getting even more apathetic.
Jun 27 20:22:56 <jasta> yakischloba: I really surprised myself these past 5 months working on Android
Jun 27 20:23:23 <jasta> well, before Google decided that their "do no evil" mantra was really a button they could conveniently remove at times :)
Jun 27 20:23:27 <jasta> but anyway
Jun 27 20:23:44 <yakischloba> haha.
Jun 27 20:24:08 <jasta> For the ADC, I was working about 20-30 hours a week for 5 months.  Didn't feel like a whole lot of time when I thought about it.
Jun 27 20:24:18 <jasta> but then, i cranked out over 20k loc in a language I just learned :)
Jun 27 20:24:37 <jasta> you know, much of it is probably absolute garbage, but still.
Jun 27 20:25:01 <yakischloba> yeah. The programming I've been working with recently (wxruby gui toolkit) have been far more gratifying than I expected.
Jun 27 20:25:12 <jasta> 20-30 hours on top of my day job, of course.
Jun 27 20:25:26 <michaelnovakjr> ruby is garbage
Jun 27 20:25:28 <yakischloba> I know
Jun 27 20:25:40 <yakischloba> I'm embarrassed to mention it in this channel so please spare me.
Jun 27 20:25:46 <michaelnovakjr> its all good
Jun 27 20:26:00 <jasta> what's to be embarrassed about?  We're all using Java for crying out loud :)
Jun 27 20:26:05 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 20:26:14 <michaelnovakjr> excellent point
Jun 27 20:26:19 <jasta> Hell, one of my favorite languages is Perl.  I have no shame.
Jun 27 20:26:36 <michaelnovakjr> C is still my favorite language
Jun 27 20:26:51 <romainguy_> wxRuby?
Jun 27 20:27:00 <Dougie187> C is mine too!
Jun 27 20:27:00 <romainguy_> are these bindings for the wxWindows toolkit?
Jun 27 20:27:04 <Dougie187> c++ is decent too
Jun 27 20:27:05 <jasta> It's just good to be cranking out code, really.  It's good to be producing something that can support you, whether it's emotionally, financially, or whatever.
Jun 27 20:27:09 <yakischloba> It seems to have provided me with some level of intuitive understanding thats allowed me to start understanding other languages, whereas before I was totally clueless and had given up numerous times trying to learn.
Jun 27 20:27:22 <yakischloba> romainguy: ruby bindings for wxWidgets.
Jun 27 20:27:30 <romainguy_> ah yes the name changed to wxWidgets
Jun 27 20:27:31 <yakischloba> romainguy_: cross-platform
Jun 27 20:27:38 <romainguy_> I know wxWidgets
Jun 27 20:27:44 <romainguy_> it's one of the worst UI toolkits I've ever used
Jun 27 20:27:48 <romainguy_> :)
Jun 27 20:27:53 <yakischloba> well then it'll fit well with ruby won't it.
Jun 27 20:27:55 <yakischloba> ;)
Jun 27 20:27:59 <jasta> i agree with romain, though, but don't take that as discouragement
Jun 27 20:28:25 <romainguy_> it's like Tk, I don't understand how this toolkit can still be around
Jun 27 20:28:27 <romainguy_> :)
Jun 27 20:28:31 <yakischloba> heh. every time I think I've found something that I'm capable of creating something useful with..
Jun 27 20:28:32 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Jun 27 20:28:45 <jasta> romainguy_: well, unlike Tk, it did solve an interesting problem even if it did it poorly
Jun 27 20:28:49 <romainguy_> yakischloba: that said you can create some pretty good stuff with it
Jun 27 20:28:50 <jasta> Tk is truly the greater mystery.
Jun 27 20:28:55 <michaelnovakjr> yakischloba: look at OS X programming
Jun 27 20:29:24 <jasta> romainguy_: it's like GNU autotools.  It solved a hard problem poorly, but it's the best we've got.
Jun 27 20:29:52 <yakischloba> michaelnovakjr: one of the main reasons I went with wxWidgets is because its cross-platform :(
Jun 27 20:30:04 <romainguy_> jasta: it's true for Tk, but wx has no reason whatsoever to even exist :)
Jun 27 20:31:27 <jasta> romainguy_: Well, it's reasoning is the same as SWT
Jun 27 20:31:38 <romainguy_> they had reasons for SWT at the time
Jun 27 20:31:40 <romainguy_> but nowadays...
Jun 27 20:31:49 <michaelnovakjr> jasta you don't like autotools?
Jun 27 20:31:51 <romainguy_> (that doesn't explain why they created such an awful API though :)
Jun 27 20:31:58 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: no, i think they're both great and terrible at the same time.
Jun 27 20:32:09 <michaelnovakjr> haha, i know what you mean
Jun 27 20:32:22 <jasta> it's confusing as hell and very awkward.  it took a long time to learn.  but i'm thankful it exists, none-the-less.
Jun 27 20:32:34 <michaelnovakjr> agreed
Jun 27 20:32:40 <jasta> romainguy_: you don't think SWT is relevant these days?
Jun 27 20:32:59 <romainguy_> Swing is fast/faster and GPL'd
Jun 27 20:33:13 <romainguy_> and SWT has some very weird limitations
Jun 27 20:33:15 <jasta> well, the problem that's being attempted is native widgets.
Jun 27 20:33:22 <romainguy_> and way too many inspirations from Win32
Jun 27 20:33:25 <f00f-> i'd say SWT is faster by visual comparisons
Jun 27 20:33:32 <romainguy_> f00f-: actually it's not
Jun 27 20:33:45 <romainguy_> f00f-: especially since Swing is hardware accelerated on Windows
Jun 27 20:33:47 <michaelnovakjr> http://www.userfriendly.org/
Jun 27 20:33:48 <f00f-> by my eyes, it is
Jun 27 20:33:59 <jasta> wow, you guys wanna see something weird
Jun 27 20:34:06 <jasta> google for java swing on google images
Jun 27 20:34:10 <jasta> romain especially, do that ;)
Jun 27 20:34:34 <romainguy_> ahah
Jun 27 20:34:37 <romainguy_> I like the first picture :))
Jun 27 20:34:38 <jasta> Romain's my hero
Jun 27 20:34:43 <jasta> hehe
Jun 27 20:35:25 <yakischloba> lol.
Jun 27 20:35:37 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr did you get a new laptop yet?
Jun 27 20:35:38 <jasta> even i don't know if i'm being patronizing.  >;)
Jun 27 20:36:04 <jasta> romainguy_: i did that query to demonstrate that non-native widgets look like hell.  then i got your app ;)
Jun 27 20:36:46 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: noep
Jun 27 20:36:47 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Jun 27 20:36:51 <michaelnovakjr> i really want to though
Jun 27 20:36:54 <Dougie187> anytime soon?
Jun 27 20:37:02 <michaelnovakjr> yea real soon
Jun 27 20:37:32 <romainguy_> jasta: I admit that GTK's support in Swing is pretty bad :(
Jun 27 20:37:41 <jasta> romain: i love these photos you take on your blog.  you've got a real talent for this.
Jun 27 20:37:55 <romainguy_> thanks
Jun 27 20:38:02 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: i was trying to dump mine too
Jun 27 20:38:04 <Dougie187> you still looking at the dell?
Jun 27 20:38:12 <Dougie187> decide not to do that now?
Jun 27 20:38:13 <michaelnovakjr> i was looking at the xps
Jun 27 20:38:18 <Dougie187> yeah i remember
Jun 27 20:38:21 <michaelnovakjr> i can't get rid of it!
Jun 27 20:38:21 <Dougie187> the M1330
Jun 27 20:38:23 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 20:38:24 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Jun 27 20:38:24 <jasta> like that peacock photo
Jun 27 20:38:28 <jasta> what the hell, right?
Jun 27 20:38:43 <jasta> i dont even understand what i'm seeing, but it's gorgeous
Jun 27 20:38:52 <Dougie187> i think im gonna get my R61e soon too
Jun 27 20:38:54 <romainguy_> jasta: to be honest I have no idea how I managed this one
Jun 27 20:39:07 <romainguy_> jasta: it was taken in broad daylight
Jun 27 20:39:17 <jasta> it would have to be, as i assumed
Jun 27 20:39:21 <jasta> because they wouldnt let you in the zoo otherwise
Jun 27 20:39:26 <romainguy_> lol
Jun 27 20:39:35 <romainguy_> well... when you really want a picture... :)
Jun 27 20:39:53 <jasta> man, i dont know about zoos in ca, but the wodland park zoo by my house is like fort knox
Jun 27 20:40:04 <jasta> theres a 14 foot barbed wire fence all around
Jun 27 20:40:09 <Dougie187> sooo i guess people just came out with the coolest usb hubs in the world.
Jun 27 20:40:15 <jasta> with nothing to grab onto.  you'd need a grappling hook :)
Jun 27 20:40:39 <romainguy_> jasta: in France I got locked up in the zoo a few times
Jun 27 20:40:42 <Dougie187> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/27/video-darth-vader-usb-hub-fulfills-your-dork-destiny/
Jun 27 20:40:45 <romainguy_> in Lyon the zoo is in a huge park
Jun 27 20:40:58 <romainguy_> and when they close the gates, too bad for you if you're sitll inside
Jun 27 20:42:14 <jasta> most zoos around the world are like that, i think.  my brother said in belize the zoo is really just a fence around *you* as you walk through
Jun 27 20:43:19 <michaelnovakjr> Dougie187: i want one
Jun 27 20:43:38 <Dougie187> aren't they cool?
Jun 27 20:43:39 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 20:43:42 <Dougie187> they move too
Jun 27 20:45:35 <michaelnovakjr> why are they only in japan!?!
Jun 27 20:47:13 <jasta> really?  you have to ask that? :)
Jun 27 20:47:26 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 20:47:36 <michaelnovakjr> i know i know, it was more just disappointment
Jun 27 20:50:33 <Dougie187> hey michaelnovakjr let me know when you get your laptop
Jun 27 20:50:36 <Dougie187> i wanna know how it is.
Jun 27 20:50:45 <michaelnovakjr> ok
Jun 27 20:51:35 <Dougie187> is that the one you are going to get though?.
Jun 27 20:51:39 <Dougie187> or are you still shopping?
Jun 27 20:51:54 <michaelnovakjr> i almost certain
Jun 27 20:51:59 <michaelnovakjr> i am *
Jun 27 20:52:07 <michaelnovakjr> sorry, don't mean to sound like a caveman :)
Jun 27 20:52:25 <Dougie187> lol
Jun 27 20:52:27 <Dougie187> it haoppens.
Jun 27 20:52:30 <Dougie187> happens.
Jun 27 20:52:40 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 20:53:15 <Dougie187> any timeline for your splurge?
Jun 27 20:53:37 <michaelnovakjr> not sure
Jun 27 20:53:51 <Dougie187> i want to get mine asap.
Jun 27 20:53:58 <Dougie187> but i probably wont get it until at least july 15th.
Jun 27 20:56:57 <michaelnovakjr> didn't you just get yours back?
Jun 27 20:57:55 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 20:58:04 <Dougie187> but this one is going to become my wifes.
Jun 27 20:58:09 <Dougie187> and im going to get a new one
Jun 27 20:58:13 <michaelnovakjr> i see'
Jun 27 20:58:14 <Dougie187> with a discrete graphics card.
Jun 27 20:58:25 <Dougie187> hopefully so i can do a little CUDA programming
Jun 27 20:58:36 <Dougie187> but also hopefully so games will run better in wine
Jun 27 20:58:37 <michaelnovakjr> i like nvidia
Jun 27 20:58:38 <f00f-> what is CUDA
Jun 27 20:58:52 <Dougie187> CUDA is a language to run code on nvidia GPUs
Jun 27 20:59:26 <Dougie187> you can do a lot of SIMD stuff
Jun 27 20:59:32 <Dougie187> thats primarily what it is good for
Jun 27 20:59:38 <Dougie187> like blocked matrix multiply
Jun 27 20:59:48 <Dougie187> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA
Jun 27 21:00:10 <f00f-> oh nice
Jun 27 21:00:24 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 21:00:43 <Dougie187> it lets you basically just pump data to the gpu and have the gpu manipulate it and send it back
Jun 27 21:00:51 <Dougie187> and the gpu is incredibly fast with this.
Jun 27 21:01:11 <Dougie187> but its really only useful for like, linear algebra stuff
Jun 27 21:01:58 <f00f-> nice
Jun 27 21:02:17 <f00f-> the usual gpu paradigm is to use it as a tool
Jun 27 21:02:24 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 21:02:26 <f00f-> where now you want to push execution logic into it
Jun 27 21:02:32 <Dougie187> yup
Jun 27 21:02:40 <Dougie187> we have a GPU cluster here actually
Jun 27 21:03:21 <Dougie187> its like 8 machines with 2 or 3 8800s in them
Jun 27 21:04:11 <f00f-> not bad
Jun 27 21:04:37 <f00f-> can you make some patches for MySQL that use CUDA to accelerate R-tree indexes and geospatial search KTHX
Jun 27 21:04:52 <Dougie187> i dont know.
Jun 27 21:04:54 <f00f-> i wonder if that data structure can be used optimally in a GPU
Jun 27 21:05:08 <Dougie187> possibly.
Jun 27 21:05:46 <Dougie187> i know a professor here who is using CUDA to generate CVTs
Jun 27 21:05:56 <Dougie187> but he does it in an odd way
Jun 27 21:06:44 <f00f-> CVT for cars?
Jun 27 21:06:53 <f00f-> nissan has a few models out
Jun 27 21:06:58 <f00f-> CVT isbecomng more and more popular
Jun 27 21:07:33 <Dougie187> lol Not not CVT for car
Jun 27 21:07:43 <Dougie187> Centroidal Voronoi Tesselation.
Jun 27 21:07:49 <f00f-> ooooooooooooh
Jun 27 21:07:53 <f00f-> that's pimp
Jun 27 21:07:56 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 21:07:58 <f00f-> i was reading up on voronoi's the other day
Jun 27 21:08:02 <f00f-> thinking maybe i need to implement it myself
Jun 27 21:08:05 <Dougie187> Voronois are awesome
Jun 27 21:08:16 <Dougie187> if you need some help i have some matlab code to do one.
Jun 27 21:08:22 <Dougie187> do you know what method you might use?
Jun 27 21:09:39 <f00f-> well i was just exploring, but i was thinking population-based distribution
Jun 27 21:09:58 <f00f-> mind you i just stumbled on this
Jun 27 21:10:07 <Dougie187> yeah
Jun 27 21:10:22 <Dougie187> people used it in japan to place mail drop off boxes
Jun 27 21:10:26 <f00f-> ideally would like to use it for LBS
Jun 27 21:10:37 <f00f-> not only for POI's but also tracking people
Jun 27 21:10:42 <Dougie187> to see the optimal distribution of drop off boxes.
Jun 27 21:11:25 <f00f-> heh, "drop off boxes" - is that a joke?
Jun 27 21:11:26 <f00f-> :)
Jun 27 21:11:32 <Dougie187> lol no.
Jun 27 21:11:45 <Dougie187> i went to a seminar on it.
Jun 27 21:11:56 <Dougie187> we use weighted CVTs in our research
Jun 27 21:12:04 <Dougie187> to make a mesh for the ocean
Jun 27 21:12:09 <Dougie187> or land
Jun 27 21:12:26 <f00f-> right
Jun 27 21:12:43 <f00f-> stuff i've been glancing at:
Jun 27 21:12:46 <f00f-> http://www.geodyssey.com/papers/dobbs92.html
Jun 27 21:12:49 <f00f-> http://www.geodyssey.com/tutorial/tc06.html
Jun 27 21:13:10 <Dougie187> well if you want some methods for making a CVT look at Lloyds method
Jun 27 21:13:16 <Dougie187> or the Probablistic Lloyds method
Jun 27 21:17:01 <Dougie187> well i am out now.
Jun 27 21:17:04 <Dougie187> so ill be back later
Jun 27 21:27:32 <jasta> man i'm excited for this weekend
Jun 27 21:28:39 <morrildl> jasta: you mean Gay Pride weekend?
Jun 27 21:28:45 <michaelnovakjr> haha
Jun 27 21:29:01 <michaelnovakjr> he has a girlfriend
Jun 27 21:30:17 <jasta> morrildl: well sure i guess, i strongly support gay and lesbian rights.
Jun 27 21:30:31 <jasta> is that supposed to be insulting?
Jun 27 21:30:34 <morrildl> well, I'll probably be at the parade, so I didn't mean it like that :)
Jun 27 21:31:01 <jasta> i bet you will ;)
Jun 27 21:31:16 <morrildl> (the gay-marriage-in-CA thing is in big in the news here)
Jun 27 21:31:44 <morrildl> apparently there's a huge number of weddings going on today, as people get married for Gay Pride Weekend
Jun 27 21:31:51 <jasta> i'm joking though, the gay pride parades are generally anti-social and counter-productive.
Jun 27 21:31:58 <morrildl> really?
Jun 27 21:32:06 <morrildl> I've never been to one
Jun 27 21:32:27 <jasta> oh yeah, they're terrible.  lude and illegal sexual conduct is common place, independent of sexual orientation.
Jun 27 21:32:57 <jasta> naked men and women walking around and crap.  has nothing to do with gay pride or rights, it's just sort of an excuse for a lot of people to be sexually deviant.
Jun 27 21:33:34 <jasta> and it overshadows the good that people are trying to accomplish from those sorts of events
Jun 27 21:34:15 <romainguy> it's this week end?
Jun 27 21:34:29 <jasta> very stereotypical too.
Jun 27 21:34:45 <romainguy> living on Market is awesome, I can take pictures of all the events form my window :)
Jun 27 21:35:03 <michaelnovakjr> that must cost a pretty penny
Jun 27 21:36:01 <jasta> morrildl: what do you suppose the odds are that the gay marriage thing will be overturned?
Jun 27 21:36:30 <jasta> i'd heard that there was quite an uproar and they got it on the public ballot
Jun 27 21:36:48 <morrildl> jasta: not sure, really, I haven't been following the details
Jun 27 21:36:59 <jasta> so why would you go to gay pride then?
Jun 27 21:37:03 <morrildl> but it was a CA Supreme Court decision, so it will take a state law to change
Jun 27 21:37:56 <morrildl> jasta: I mean I haven't been following the details of the gay-marriage decision
Jun 27 21:38:02 <jasta> if anyone was paying attention, earlier today i admitted that my mom was a lesbian.  so obviously i hear a lot about this :)
Jun 27 21:38:09 <morrildl> heh :)
Jun 27 21:38:32 <yakischloba> faggot lover!
Jun 27 21:38:57 <jasta> and i already know yakischloba must be joking because he lives in capitol hill
Jun 27 21:39:19 <yakischloba> ;)
Jun 27 21:40:06 <jasta> yakischloba: hey, are you going to the block party this year?
Jun 27 21:40:09 * morrildl had gotten as far as "/ban yak"
Jun 27 21:40:35 <yakischloba> haha. sorry morrildl I'll refrain in the future.
Jun 27 21:40:35 <jasta> morrildl: yakischloba lives in a part of Seattle that is almost rare to see straight couples :)
Jun 27 21:40:43 <morrildl> heh :)
Jun 27 21:40:57 <morrildl> yakischloba: well, at least put a ;) on the end so I know ;)
Jun 27 21:41:01 <jasta> and on top of that, Seattle is extremely progressive on the gay and lesbain front
Jun 27 21:41:18 <yakischloba> jasta: I don't think so. I'm not much for big events like that, the block party is usually off the hook.
Jun 27 21:41:32 <jasta> yakischloba: yeah, but these guys will be there:
Jun 27 21:41:36 <jasta> http://www.myspace.com/theairbornetoxicevent
Jun 27 21:41:38 <jasta> and they are awesome
Jun 27 21:41:41 <pawalls> ";)" is the new "bless his heart"
Jun 27 21:41:53 <yakischloba> hmm
Jun 27 21:42:50 <pawalls> jasta, You know.. I kinda enjoy the old naked people. They seem to be a cornerstone of the SF counter-culture.
Jun 27 21:43:06 <jasta> yeah, i'm sure thye are, but it still has nothing to do with gay pride.
Jun 27 21:43:23 <pawalls> jasta, I think it's going a bit far to say nudity is "lude" and "sexually explicit"
Jun 27 21:43:43 <jasta> yeah, but there's lude and sexually explicit behaviour as well :)
Jun 27 21:44:00 <jasta> but i need not go any further than to say there are naked people, because thats illegal
Jun 27 21:44:21 <pawalls> Yes, and legality is the last word on morality :-P
Jun 27 22:02:17 <jasta> pawalls: i'm just saying it's not a great way to get your point across
Jun 27 22:02:26 <jasta> we're gay, deal with it, and also this naked guy who has nothing to do with being gay!
Jun 27 22:02:38 <jasta> anyway, i gtota run
Jun 27 22:02:43 <jasta> ferry time
Jun 27 22:08:32 <yakischloba> cya jasta
Jun 27 22:08:48 <yakischloba> have a fun trip
Jun 27 22:08:54 <f00f-> where is he going
Jun 27 22:09:04 <yakischloba> san juans
Jun 27 22:09:12 <f00f-> puerto rico?
Jun 27 22:09:22 <yakischloba> washington ;)
Jun 27 22:09:27 <f00f-> okay :)
Jun 27 22:09:28 <f00f-> never heard of it
Jun 27 22:09:39 <yakischloba> a group of islands somewhat near seattle.
Jun 27 22:09:49 <yakischloba> pretty nice area
Jun 27 22:11:10 <f00f-> one day i shall visit washington area
Jun 28 00:15:45 <Dougie187> Ohhh Dan is around
Jun 28 00:22:14 <Dougie187> but noone else?
Jun 28 00:43:43 <yakischloba> O_O
Jun 28 01:36:44 <michaelnovakjr_> howdy folks
Jun 28 01:38:24 <romainguy_> yo
Jun 28 01:39:14 <michaelnovakjr_> how's it going?
Jun 28 01:39:24 <michaelnovakjr_> android supports openssl right?
Jun 28 01:41:37 <michaelnovakjr_> apparently the iPhone did not deem it worthy for the phone
Jun 28 01:56:01 <f00f-> yeah bro
Jun 28 01:56:02 <f00f-> openssl
Jun 28 01:58:08 <michaelnovakjr_> sweet
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 28 02:59:57 2008