**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 08 02:59:57 2008 Jul 08 03:26:18 howdy muthu Jul 08 03:26:25 yo michaelnovakjr_ Jul 08 03:26:39 how you been? Jul 08 03:26:52 any news lately? Jul 08 03:27:25 nope Jul 08 03:27:34 during the day here it was absolutely dead Jul 08 03:28:16 ok, then i didn't miss anything Jul 08 03:28:41 nope Jul 08 03:29:02 i haven't looked at anything android in a while... Jul 08 03:29:29 i can understand that Jul 08 03:29:49 working on another project Jul 08 03:30:23 what's that? Jul 08 03:31:48 porting over git to run natively on windows Jul 08 03:32:03 the windows support quite frankly sucks Jul 08 03:33:41 cool Jul 08 03:34:07 definitely, i've become a huge fan of git for multi-person projects Jul 08 03:34:24 what's the big plus? Jul 08 03:35:11 distributive environment Jul 08 03:35:38 each user has their own local repository they can do commits and reverts with and not mess up the remote repository everyone else pulls from Jul 08 03:35:39 michaelnovakjr_: if i'm to develop for nokia devices, should i go with wap or native development? Jul 08 03:35:54 i'm always a fan of native development Jul 08 03:36:00 hmm Jul 08 03:36:06 but so many quirks with each device Jul 08 03:36:06 muthu there is no question you should go native Jul 08 03:36:15 f00f-: why Jul 08 03:36:17 unless you want to deploy tomorrow, then try web runtime Jul 08 03:36:30 eSWT is also coming (java) Jul 08 03:36:36 soyou need not choose native C++ Jul 08 03:36:43 tell me if i'm crazy, but is there any reason why python couldnt target the dalvik VM via llvm ? Jul 08 03:36:45 yeah, i don't want c++ Jul 08 03:36:50 or C ? objective C ? Jul 08 03:37:06 muthu, why not? Jul 08 03:37:17 i can understand, i know i wouldnt Jul 08 03:37:24 we have java expertise on board Jul 08 03:37:28 C++ is ugly on symbian Jul 08 03:37:32 so don't want to go on a hiring spree here Jul 08 03:37:56 Open C will chown it, but lack of libraries on platform side last i checked Jul 08 03:37:59 so, nokia native (j2me) is the way to go - right? Jul 08 03:38:05 there's also Flash Lite Jul 08 03:38:13 you're targeting S40 or S60 ? Jul 08 03:38:19 both Jul 08 03:38:24 Java is the best way then Jul 08 03:38:27 depends on app, too Jul 08 03:38:32 we are targetting all nokia devices Jul 08 03:38:38 S40 allows no bg processes Jul 08 03:38:39 nokia is HUGE in india Jul 08 03:39:03 isnt nokia huge anywhere ? Jul 08 03:39:15 wmealing: not so in US i guess Jul 08 03:39:16 not in the US Jul 08 03:39:24 yea, they lost ground in the US Jul 08 03:39:40 all i see in bayarea atleast is apple Jul 08 03:39:41 its such a small market there i guess Jul 08 03:40:03 it's an operator-driven and controlled market Jul 08 03:40:03 compared to the rest of the world, yes Jul 08 03:40:14 that is what i'm referring to. Jul 08 03:40:16 i was surprised how far behind the US is in regards to telephony. Jul 08 03:40:36 oh? Jul 08 03:41:03 i had a phone for over two years, that was only just "NEW" in the US. Jul 08 03:41:06 the sony erricson phones. Jul 08 03:41:22 and not only that, but the bluetooth and file sharing were disabled on the phone Jul 08 03:41:27 oh so you mean mobile device adoption Jul 08 03:41:29 you cant send mp3s to other phones. Jul 08 03:41:32 they are happy with their iphones ;) Jul 08 03:41:44 well, that could be why the iphone had such an impact Jul 08 03:41:45 lack of knowledge/demand by average consumer Jul 08 03:41:52 thus unwillingness to change on operator side Jul 08 03:42:02 freebies rule! Jul 08 03:42:04 i mean, aussies are not that great either Jul 08 03:42:08 but i guess we have asia right above us Jul 08 03:42:11 telling us what we dont have Jul 08 03:42:31 well, we're all trying to change that ;) Jul 08 03:42:40 asians spend big chunks of money and get junk Jul 08 03:42:48 it's an uphill battle for us here Jul 08 03:42:49 meh, not really junk Jul 08 03:43:01 and its not that expensive Jul 08 03:43:05 i mean, not compared to an iphone Jul 08 03:43:08 yea Jul 08 03:43:12 yeah, that's what i meant Jul 08 03:43:16 dinner & Jul 08 03:43:16 iphone is so expensive here Jul 08 03:43:28 here being (59 is india ?) Jul 08 03:43:31 f00f-: what's for dinner? Jul 08 03:43:55 wmealing: what's 59? Jul 08 03:44:05 your ip address Jul 08 03:44:12 yeah, india Jul 08 03:44:41 me from chennai Jul 08 03:45:32 * wmealing spent a few weeks in pune and mumbai last year. Jul 08 03:45:47 cool Jul 08 03:45:59 wmealing: you from australia? Jul 08 03:46:01 yes. Jul 08 03:46:17 did you submit for adc? Jul 08 03:46:20 I mean, manilla traffic was busy, but mumbai is.. overwhelming Jul 08 03:46:29 india is krazzzy! Jul 08 03:46:31 apple developer conference ? Jul 08 03:46:43 you need 2 weeks to just get used to Jul 08 03:46:50 the noise and pollution Jul 08 03:47:00 and the tanks crossing the road at 8:00 AM Jul 08 03:47:07 i was late to work, because of a tank Jul 08 03:47:11 how do you tell your US boss that Jul 08 03:47:14 haha Jul 08 03:47:23 i wasn't about to challenge it.. you know ? Jul 08 03:47:26 that's the way we make excuses here if we are late Jul 08 03:47:29 traffic jam! Jul 08 03:47:42 lol Jul 08 03:47:46 traffic is not a valid excuse really Jul 08 03:47:51 it just means you need to get there earlier Jul 08 03:47:53 i was early Jul 08 03:48:03 but i needed to be there to talk to the boss before the call Jul 08 03:48:06 the rest of the week, fine Jul 08 03:48:14 anything can and will happen Jul 08 03:48:18 and the people behind me Jul 08 03:48:22 we just get used to this Jul 08 03:48:23 were hitting the horn Jul 08 03:48:32 i'm thinking , dont do that Jul 08 03:48:35 then the turrent turns Jul 08 03:48:38 then they are quiet. Jul 08 03:48:46 haha Jul 08 03:48:55 looks like you had a great time ;) Jul 08 03:49:00 was interesting Jul 08 03:49:07 was hard to get food that wasn't spicey. Jul 08 03:49:09 or curry Jul 08 03:49:17 i swear, it leaked from my pores for the next month Jul 08 03:49:22 haha Jul 08 03:49:36 its bad for us indians returning home Jul 08 03:49:42 i can only imagine foreigners!! Jul 08 03:49:59 I'm no stranger to a crazy stuff happening Jul 08 03:50:01 i was in SF for june, and came back Jul 08 03:50:20 literally june Jul 08 03:50:29 muthu: do you know much about the VM ? Jul 08 03:50:42 what's vm? Jul 08 03:50:57 virtual machine? :) Jul 08 03:51:12 is he talking about android vm? Jul 08 03:51:18 :) Jul 08 03:51:25 * romainguy_ looks at the channel's name... Jul 08 03:51:30 hehe Jul 08 03:51:43 we talk anything BUT android ;) Jul 08 03:52:06 i'm trying to figure out if its possible Jul 08 03:52:13 to write an llvm -> dex target Jul 08 03:52:39 as long as you produce dex bytecode, you're good Jul 08 03:52:39 once its opensource, anything is possible Jul 08 03:52:47 you could just output java bytecode Jul 08 03:52:50 and let dex do the job Jul 08 03:53:23 romainguy, kind of a doublestep there, dont you think ? Jul 08 03:53:33 if i have to target something, might as well be native. Jul 08 03:53:39 why bother? Jul 08 03:53:50 why bother with what Jul 08 03:54:19 it's just that targeting java bytecode is more flexible right now Jul 08 03:54:26 I won't prevent you from targeting dex though :) Jul 08 03:54:32 (I work on the Android team btw) Jul 08 03:54:41 * wmealing nods Jul 08 03:55:09 if only android was opensource, by now we would have seen some devices out! Jul 08 03:55:16 muthu: its never that simple. Jul 08 03:55:24 making it open source won't make the code be finished muthu Jul 08 03:55:27 wmealing: what's not simple? Jul 08 03:55:38 romainguy_: agreed, but perfection can come later Jul 08 03:55:53 it's not about perfection Jul 08 03:55:55 it's about making it work Jul 08 03:56:13 romainguy_: there's a tons of things which are useful already, i think Jul 08 03:56:24 muthu: i'm almost sure that the largest hold up is at management side of the "company", not the software Jul 08 03:56:44 hiring developers, training staff, new manuals, new phones. Jul 08 03:56:45 muthu: you don't see everything with an SDK Jul 08 03:57:11 romainguy_: there are people who can do things now Jul 08 03:57:25 romainguy: i've found http://www.retrodev.com/android/dexformat.html Jul 08 03:57:35 is there another document that may be a little more.. accurate. Jul 08 03:57:52 I don't think we've published the format yet Jul 08 03:58:25 * wmealing sees your point about targeting jbytecode Jul 08 03:59:15 i've noticed something Jul 08 03:59:16 a lot of work, and the dalvik guys could change the backend, then my app is broken all over again. Jul 08 03:59:36 wmealing: yeah, safe to use the dex tool for now Jul 08 04:01:16 http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6250678 Jul 08 04:01:20 huhuhu Jul 08 04:01:25 * wmealing hoped to use as little closed source as possible Jul 08 04:03:53 * yes, i know google will open source it, if / when time comes.. but I can't count on them to do the right thing. Jul 08 04:04:37 Kraln: terrible Jul 08 04:04:52 wmealing: that's been the hot topic these days Jul 08 04:04:53 wmealing: why can't you count on us to do the right thing?? Jul 08 04:05:03 we said Android will be open source, it will be Jul 08 04:05:22 romainguy, evil will triumph because good is stupid. Jul 08 04:05:28 lol Jul 08 04:05:40 ?? Jul 08 04:05:40 true dat! Jul 08 04:05:46 romainguy, i tend not to assume that what i want will happen.. therefore i plan for the worst Jul 08 04:05:53 worse case scenario Jul 08 04:06:14 you guys must stop with your evil plan/doomsday/conspiracy theories :) Jul 08 04:06:23 im not evil planning it Jul 08 04:06:26 i'm being realistic Jul 08 04:06:29 your managers manager could decide that android is a dead end Jul 08 04:06:38 and then just end it, as it is Jul 08 04:06:43 yeah, never know what the management does Jul 08 04:06:50 unlikely, but possible Jul 08 04:06:53 haha Jul 08 04:06:53 sure Jul 08 04:06:59 well, if you think that way... :)) Jul 08 04:07:01 so, i want to be prepared for that. Jul 08 04:07:07 i don't think android will end like that Jul 08 04:07:08 think of it as.. backup strategy. Jul 08 04:08:56 and dont get me wrong, i completely understand why you are not releasing source code just yet Jul 08 04:09:02 i'm not asking for that Jul 08 04:09:07 I know Jul 08 04:09:33 can anyone come up with a device right now, with whatever android is available? Jul 08 04:09:41 muthu: yes Jul 08 04:09:46 muthu: nokia n810 Jul 08 04:09:54 is it public? Jul 08 04:10:02 the n810 ? Jul 08 04:10:09 yeah the android port Jul 08 04:10:17 er, well i saw an installable image Jul 08 04:10:19 does that count ? Jul 08 04:10:20 is it from nokia? are they releasing it? Jul 08 04:10:27 n810's been out for a year Jul 08 04:10:38 no the licensing and such Jul 08 04:10:50 * wmealing shrugs, not my call not make Jul 08 04:11:03 i wouldnt imagine that the source code is any different that what you already use/see/know Jul 08 04:11:11 or under any different licenseing Jul 08 04:11:25 the current public sdk is m5 Jul 08 04:11:31 and guess it under apache 2.0 Jul 08 04:11:49 so guess, a public device using m5 should be fine Jul 08 04:11:53 no it's not under apache 2.0 yet Jul 08 04:11:57 there's a license in the SDK Jul 08 04:11:58 oh Jul 08 04:12:09 ok, so that's the problem Jul 08 04:13:33 http://www.talkandroid.com/69-google-android-htc-tytn-ii-install/ too Jul 08 04:53:26 muthu: it was potatoes o'brien with sliced smoked turkey sausage and scotch + orange juice for drink :O Jul 08 04:53:42 i downed it pretty fast Jul 08 04:53:46 this should produce for some interesting code Jul 08 04:53:50 yummy! Jul 08 04:54:07 my birthday and phone contract runs out in september, was hoping for a phone by then. Jul 08 04:54:15 i can't afford to be creative and cook due to ADC :X Jul 08 04:54:23 url for adc ? Jul 08 04:54:27 wmealing: you may have to wait a little :> Jul 08 04:54:30 * wmealing knows Jul 08 04:54:39 i live in hope Jul 08 04:54:43 heh Jul 08 04:54:50 http://code.google.com/android/ it's somewhere there Jul 08 07:54:23 http://blog.karppinen.fi/2008/07/apple-just-gave-out-my-apple-i.html Jul 08 07:59:19 mitas siella Jul 08 08:01:13 f00f-: is that finnish? Jul 08 08:01:22 ya Jul 08 08:01:26 apple ftl man Jul 08 08:03:21 unbelievable Jul 08 08:26:33 android support for arm planned? Jul 08 08:26:43 yeah, it's there Jul 08 08:27:12 rawk Jul 08 08:30:15 Is there a possibility to simulate video recording or picture capturing through the SDK at the moment ? Jul 08 08:30:47 yeah, kind of, not really Jul 08 08:32:30 that means ? Jul 08 08:32:46 i am not qualified to answer that at this time Jul 08 08:37:09 ohh Jul 08 08:37:19 thats a answer worthy of a googler Jul 08 08:40:09 After reading through teh SDK it is possible but not supported by the emulator Jul 08 08:40:19 ok I shouldn't have asked sry Jul 08 08:49:39 the f... sdk doesnt have bluetooth/wifi APIs :( Jul 08 08:50:13 it has bluetooth but they are highly undocumented Jul 08 08:50:15 org.bluez.* Jul 08 08:50:29 it's a feature request i've been meaning to push for Jul 08 08:58:17 i wont start coding with it until its not fully documented/implemented Jul 08 10:51:16 Good Morning Everyone Jul 08 10:53:47 ge Jul 08 11:07:02 hows it going muthu? Jul 08 11:07:11 yo Dougie187 Jul 08 11:07:16 going good Jul 08 11:07:20 nice Jul 08 11:07:39 lot of things happening Jul 08 11:08:01 oh yeah? Jul 08 11:08:45 yeah, but need to make some sense out of it ;) Jul 08 11:11:31 heh Jul 08 11:11:40 you getting ready for your submission date? Jul 08 11:13:06 yeah, but its still some time away Jul 08 11:22:36 20 days right? Jul 08 12:30:45 somone linked to a pdf of a wired article yesterday, anyone still have that link? Jul 08 12:31:26 nm, found it ( http://www.danielroth.net/WIRED/googlephone.pdf ) Jul 08 12:31:45 oh the wired one Jul 08 12:32:42 yeah I linked that yesterday. It was posted by Chen in his Friendfeed channel Jul 08 12:32:55 oh chen is ff Jul 08 12:33:12 anno^da: what's your ff? Jul 08 12:33:23 friend or foe? Jul 08 12:33:43 friendfeed - intellibitz Jul 08 12:33:45 there is no sms application in the editor, right? Jul 08 12:33:49 *emulator Jul 08 12:34:00 alex2308, you can emulate sms via telnet Jul 08 12:34:49 I asked my boss to take next week off to work on my project...he said no, he said just work on it at work as much as I can :) Jul 08 12:35:11 i know, i was wondering if they get stored somewhere, but as there is no sms application i guess they get discarded Jul 08 12:35:21 zhobbs_: wonderful Jul 08 12:35:28 that's the boss everyone likes ;) Jul 08 12:35:31 http://friendfeed.com/rooms/android Jul 08 12:35:39 woah Jul 08 12:35:43 subscribing.. Jul 08 12:35:51 ;) Jul 08 12:36:18 thanks Jul 08 12:37:08 np found it yesterday Jul 08 12:37:28 after walking through the different networks Jul 08 12:37:35 anything else interesting? Jul 08 12:38:00 hmm not really but I had no time to go through the whole feed Jul 08 12:38:58 cool link, anno^da Jul 08 12:40:00 hey no problem alex2308 Jul 08 12:40:01 :) Jul 08 12:41:05 what are your ff accs ? Jul 08 12:42:03 i dont have one Jul 08 12:51:13 Is it possible to record with the "MediaRecorder" class a video that's source is obtained through the Socket Camera described here (http://www.tomgibara.com/android/camera-source) ? Jul 08 12:58:43 whats the most popular social networking application using gps to track their users (OS doesnt matter)? Jul 08 12:59:02 loopt Jul 08 12:59:43 hmm it is offered by the networks providers Jul 08 12:59:51 right? Jul 08 12:59:53 how do you know, i tried googling info, but didnt find nay Jul 08 12:59:55 *any Jul 08 13:00:59 loopt seems to me US only Jul 08 13:02:11 there's a few more Jul 08 13:02:15 It seems to be very closed and standard network stuff right ? Jul 08 13:06:16 you'll have to subscribe Jul 08 13:06:17 anno^da: what about plazes just bought by nokia? not gps, I know, but probably you meant location-based Jul 08 13:06:25 i cant find a popular gps based social networking app. it seems they're all pretty empty Jul 08 13:06:32 there's one from uk Jul 08 13:07:05 there are other ways to extract location besides gps ;) Jul 08 13:07:52 opencellid ftw Jul 08 13:08:39 But there will be upcoming a lot of these networks with the iPhone and Android phones Jul 08 13:08:53 but my tests showed a very bad position based on cell-id. nearly 1km away from my actual pos Jul 08 13:08:56 I wouldnt use a network provide by my provider Jul 08 13:09:19 agps was extremely good, even though i lose connection inside buildings Jul 08 13:13:28 alex2308: currently the iphone doesn't have 'gps' its emulated Jul 08 13:14:07 you believe those networks will rise once the iphone 3g while be on market? Jul 08 13:14:14 *will be Jul 08 13:14:28 damn im a bit confused/distracted Jul 08 13:14:29 does the 3g iphone have real gps in it? Jul 08 13:15:04 yes Jul 08 13:15:28 a-gps to be precise Jul 08 13:15:43 i don't really think the iphone 3g is going to revolutionize the market anymore than it already has Jul 08 13:16:59 me too Jul 08 13:17:17 the iphone is overhyped Jul 08 13:30:58 michaelnovakjr: I think the biggest way it'll revolutionize is the price...$199 will make it much more affordable for people who might not normally buy smart phones Jul 08 13:31:18 199$ + monthly cost of xx ... Jul 08 13:31:37 sure, monthly cost you already pay for your shitty free phone Jul 08 13:34:18 bay area is sold on iphone Jul 08 13:36:18 ? Jul 08 13:36:49 i pay 5 eur for my shitty free phone per month Jul 08 13:37:11 if i want an iphone for 199usd i'd need to pay around 50 eur per month Jul 08 13:37:50 muthu i wouldnt say the bay area is sold on the iphone Jul 08 13:39:24 http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9260 Jul 08 13:39:28 hell yea Jul 08 13:39:55 true Jul 08 13:43:04 alex2308: I pay $50/month for my shitty phone...and I have the cheapest plan Jul 08 13:43:23 $39.99 + taxes + more taxes + sales tax Jul 08 13:43:38 sometimes germany is cheaper than US Jul 08 13:43:41 and you forgot more and more taxes Jul 08 13:45:32 taxes are getting crazy...I wish we could go back to before we were socialists Jul 08 13:47:58 yea Jul 08 13:48:28 if you read some of the taxes on phone bills you just have to laugh Jul 08 13:48:37 no reason that I should pay $15 taxes on cell phone Jul 08 13:48:45 and another $20 on cable, etc Jul 08 13:48:49 yep Jul 08 13:48:53 communications taxes are the worst Jul 08 13:49:13 its cause everyone uses them Jul 08 13:49:20 its a way for the gov't to make money Jul 08 13:52:55 i use wifi most of the time Jul 08 13:53:08 unbeatable price: free Jul 08 15:04:56 btw: the wired article is talking too much about US market Jul 08 15:20:05 alex2308: it's a US mag right? Jul 08 15:22:14 haha Jul 08 15:31:46 Guys could you help me a bit. I'm trying to play around with the CameraPreview class at the moment. Could you tell me what I should do to be able to use the Preview View (which is an extended SurfaceView) inside the XML layout description? Jul 08 15:32:07 http://code.google.com/android/samples/ApiDemos/src/com/google/android/samples/graphics/CameraPreview.html Jul 08 15:34:49 zhobbs_: its talking about android in total, not US market only while comparing only US carriers Jul 08 15:35:39 saying "verizon and at&t arent in the OHA, omg thats so bad" is just stupid. what about china mobile. they've got 350,000,000 subscribers Jul 08 15:36:14 again, its an american magazine Jul 08 15:36:43 china, india is where the numbers are Jul 08 15:36:49 = its made for stupid ppl? ;) Jul 08 15:37:36 no, I have a feeling chinese magazines talk more about china than the US Jul 08 15:37:37 india doesnt have many subscribers atm, bharti has less than 100 million Jul 08 15:38:41 what if i say research in motion will go bankrupt because their market share in germany is less than 5% Jul 08 15:38:57 people would laugh at you Jul 08 15:39:06 point and laugh actually Jul 08 15:39:21 well, i point and laugh at wired then Jul 08 15:39:43 that's fine, they aren't looking at it globally Jul 08 15:39:52 they were obviously talking about the american marker Jul 08 15:39:56 market Jul 08 15:40:23 even with the crappy US economy, american's still have lots of extra money to spend Jul 08 15:40:35 yep Jul 08 15:41:02 they didnt mention the other markets Jul 08 15:41:09 we all cry because fuel prices move from 2% of our income to 4% Jul 08 15:41:22 fuels costs I should say Jul 08 15:41:23 its actually more than that for me Jul 08 15:41:48 i pay $4.80 a gallon Jul 08 15:42:20 i pay 1,60 eur per liter Jul 08 15:42:24 that was two days ago, its probably more now Jul 08 15:44:14 thats cheap Jul 08 15:46:06 http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/06/09/business/20080609_GAS_GRAPHIC.html Jul 08 15:46:59 that would be cheap in germany Jul 08 15:47:15 germany is like $9.60 a gallon Jul 08 15:47:39 yeah, buy you don't have to drive hummers there :) Jul 08 15:47:55 I'd feel so lame getting groceries without my hummer Jul 08 15:48:02 haha, j/k :) Jul 08 15:48:42 we dont have hummers here, we drive BMWs :) Jul 08 15:49:29 damn, I'm jealous Jul 08 15:49:32 hey dudes Jul 08 15:50:09 i drive a volvo and it sucks down the gas Jul 08 15:50:58 my second car is a VW Lupo 3l (1.2l) Jul 08 15:51:09 maybe shouldnt call it car Jul 08 15:51:14 its more like a non-car Jul 08 15:51:27 whatever, it sucks down 3l/100km Jul 08 15:51:28 I love rotary engines...so I spend a lot on gas Jul 08 15:51:56 anyway, work 's over Jul 08 15:51:59 im off Jul 08 15:52:02 cya Jul 08 15:52:14 till next sucky workday morning Jul 08 15:52:19 l8er Jul 08 16:51:07 http://gizmodo.com/5022940/song-summoner-is-square-enixs-song+based-rpg Jul 08 16:51:14 that's.... sufficiently strange Jul 08 16:51:24 Pay close attention, that may be the birth of a new genre :) Jul 08 16:52:39 interesting Jul 08 16:55:57 I don't get it Jul 08 17:00:05