**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 10 02:59:57 2008 Jul 10 03:00:09 and probably unfit to operate any piece of equipment Jul 10 03:01:23 :) Jul 10 03:03:26 TSchultz55: even your mobile? ;) Jul 10 03:04:21 oh yes Jul 10 03:04:25 especially that Jul 10 03:04:49 gotta hate when you check your voicemail after a bad night and have messages from people wondering what the hell you were talking about Jul 10 03:04:57 or even worse calling the wrong people Jul 10 03:05:05 haha.. true Jul 10 03:05:22 muthu: my current mobile recently had a run-in with a glass of Johnny Walker Jul 10 03:05:28 so, i'd say no Jul 10 03:05:30 haha Jul 10 03:05:31 not even my mobile Jul 10 03:05:37 got it! Jul 10 03:06:06 it somehow miraculously recovered Jul 10 03:06:11 and worse of all you tend to wake up everyone for a chat in the middle of the night, not good... Jul 10 03:06:52 yeah that's the first thing I'd do - check to see how I called and what time Jul 10 03:07:02 and possibly follow up with an apology call Jul 10 03:07:11 haha Jul 10 03:07:23 a possibly awkward apology cal Jul 10 03:07:24 l Jul 10 03:07:38 haha usually Jul 10 03:08:58 alrighty bed for me Jul 10 03:09:02 night Jul 10 03:10:27 night Jul 10 03:30:33 how's it going romainguy Jul 10 03:30:48 good Jul 10 03:30:55 lots of work :) Jul 10 03:31:48 :) Jul 10 03:31:52 work is good Jul 10 03:32:59 i'm excited they have an 8GB micro card for my phone! Jul 10 03:33:10 now all i need is android on it and i'm set Jul 10 03:33:10 hehe Jul 10 03:33:20 i've become a fan of flac Jul 10 03:33:32 and the ipod obviously doesn't support it :) Jul 10 03:33:59 I would use flac if I had the equipment and ears to make it worth it :) Jul 10 03:34:11 :) Jul 10 03:35:32 file sizes aren't too bad.... 64 songs is 1 gig Jul 10 14:23:48 Is google building or sponsoring any ''production'' level hardware for the android platform? Where has this process gone yet? Jul 10 14:24:04 nowhere Jul 10 14:24:52 :( Jul 10 14:25:47 openmoko has gta02. maybe we could use that as well? Jul 10 14:45:05 kushal_12_27_200: google's just making the software Jul 10 14:46:58 I'm really interested how they want to integrate the phone into the OS of the users. I mean the iPhone is fully integrated into OSX even with the latest 2.0 firmware and the latest osx updates. Some integration of the Android phones would be nice as well. Does someone know if Google's talking to MS, Apple or even Cannonical or SUSE Jul 10 14:47:38 anno^da: i don't think that has been announced yet Jul 10 14:48:23 i wouldn't worry though, there will definitely be integration Jul 10 14:55:04 Hmm yeah I hope so. I'm looking at the iPhone integration at the moment and it is defintely great. Excluding the knowledge that it's a closed system and just one device. Jul 10 14:56:05 (and the apps in the app store look very polished due to the great standard UI widgets of the iPhone SDK) Jul 10 15:56:58 everything apple sells looks shiny and great Jul 10 15:57:08 thats how their marketing works Jul 10 16:01:53 Yeah but it is not just marketing, working withe products is fun. Much more than working with a crappy looking app Jul 10 16:02:03 depends Jul 10 16:02:21 Thats the reason why I switched from Linux back to OSX as my work station. Jul 10 16:02:39 ill never get an ipod because of itunes Jul 10 16:02:43 yea Jul 10 16:02:46 iTunes blows Jul 10 16:02:52 flac!! Jul 10 16:02:59 iTunes sucks thats right :) Jul 10 16:03:03 Amarok Jul 10 16:03:03 ! Jul 10 16:03:04 ;) Jul 10 16:03:27 i like rhythmbox Jul 10 16:03:41 and actually i like windows, because i can play games from time to time Jul 10 16:03:48 The problem is that iTunes fits the needs of most of the customers. (ok they dont know sth else :) 9 Jul 10 16:04:01 so, i dont like osx Jul 10 16:04:14 I'm not playing so that doesnt matter at all :) Jul 10 16:04:19 (for me) Jul 10 16:04:22 i don't mind OS X but its not my first choice Jul 10 16:04:46 I can make my Linux UI look way better than OS X Jul 10 16:04:51 true Jul 10 16:04:53 For video producing and audio production its my first choice Jul 10 16:04:59 my ubuntu looks much better Jul 10 16:05:05 audio production not even Jul 10 16:05:11 have you heard of Ardour? Jul 10 16:05:16 adobe premiere? Jul 10 16:05:17 Yeah I used it Jul 10 16:05:34 anyway, workday is over, im heading home Jul 10 16:05:37 i work on the 'real' ardour os x port Jul 10 16:05:41 But I always had problems with the hardware interfaces :/ Jul 10 16:05:43 till friday you nerds ;) Jul 10 16:05:47 :) Jul 10 16:05:54 bye alex2308 Jul 10 16:05:55 :) Jul 10 16:06:01 l8er android dudez Jul 10 16:06:22 The problem with Adobe Premiere is that it is far away from Final Cut Pro Jul 10 16:06:28 yea Jul 10 16:06:32 i will agree Jul 10 16:06:45 i am planning a Linux open source competitor to Final Cut Pro Jul 10 16:07:07 And I don't understand why no other company creates nice hardware :) Jul 10 16:07:19 Thats sth I dont understand at all Jul 10 16:07:23 what do you mean by nice hardware? Jul 10 16:07:30 hardware design Jul 10 16:07:42 90% of the notebooks look like crappy industry design Jul 10 16:07:52 the new xps design is nice Jul 10 16:08:02 as for desktops, i built mine Jul 10 16:08:06 blown up, full of stickers and so on Jul 10 16:09:35 So I'm out now Jul 10 16:09:40 Playing tennis :) Jul 10 16:09:47 today it is NOT raining Jul 10 16:09:48 :D Jul 10 16:10:13 bye Jul 10 16:19:16 hu all Jul 10 16:50:29 morning all Jul 10 16:50:36 morning Jul 10 16:51:54 lol, http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1125.html Jul 10 16:55:16 haha Jul 10 17:18:22 it seems that the rest of the community is finally starting to pick up on the fact that this lack of communication is troublesome Jul 10 17:18:30 i cant believe it took 6 months ;) Jul 10 17:31:47 it's getting pretty bad Jul 10 17:34:20 they could make the situation a lot better with a blog post on the subject Jul 10 17:40:44 zhobbs_: The post from davidw expressed my opinions quite well. The most likely culprit here is bumbling incompetency :) Jul 10 17:40:48 likely far away from the engineering staff Jul 10 17:41:19 what post? Jul 10 17:41:31 http://journal.dedasys.com/articles/2008/07/09/google-android-and-the-case-of-the-missing-communication Jul 10 17:42:25 "Inept bumbling is a far more likely explanation in most cases, including this one." -- that quote is what i was referring to ;) Jul 10 17:43:29 ah Jul 10 17:43:32 same hold same hold Jul 10 17:43:43 i'm not familiar with that expression? Jul 10 17:45:00 argh Jul 10 17:45:00 old Jul 10 17:45:01 not hold Jul 10 17:45:26 you can read Jean-Baptiste's blog entry: http://jbq.livejournal.com/151129.html Jul 10 17:46:03 romainguy: the only newsworthy event here is that Digit posted his, erm, opinion on the subject. Jul 10 17:46:19 but i just enjoyed davidw summarizing my sentiment so well Jul 10 17:48:42 romainguy: reading this post, all this talk on the application openness being unprecedented is silly to me Jul 10 17:48:48 most smartphone platforms are currently this way. Jul 10 17:49:42 the real difference is, perhaps, that the community will generate large amounts of example work that demonstrates the flexibility. combined with Google's hopefully superior documentation, the platfrom can be utilized more openly, but isn't actually more open to third party development technically. Jul 10 17:49:54 jasta: heh heh Jul 10 17:50:00 Windows Mobile, for example, is quite flexible. The home screen can be replaced or augmented, so too can the dialer. Jul 10 17:50:01 as usual, it depends on your definition of "open" Jul 10 17:50:06 Third party dev is possible without ceritifcation. Jul 10 17:50:29 the issue with WinMo, for instance, is that there are not any free tools for it, at least last time I checked Jul 10 17:50:32 The big difference that we hope to see is that Windows Mobile has no respectable community exploiting these features in the public. Jul 10 17:50:51 jasta: right, the difference is the total package Jul 10 17:50:58 there is no part of Android that will be closed Jul 10 17:51:17 morrildl: Well actually, there are. They just aren't "fancy", like Visual Studio. There's a free C# compiler though, that will work to let you write and test Windows Mobile software. Jul 10 17:51:33 so whether that's "more open" than another platform is a matter of personal inclination Jul 10 17:51:34 morrildl: I don't think that's the difference at all. I think the difference is what we all hope to happen after launch. Jul 10 17:51:55 That is, the difference is that Android hopes to rally a community to promote openness in all areas of the platform. Jul 10 17:52:04 that's why we know better than to just throw out some source code and expect magic to happen, and why we are spending so much time on the first device Jul 10 17:52:22 Windows Mobile doesn't have that, but is otherwise technically capable of most that Android is. Jul 10 17:52:28 yup Jul 10 17:52:46 Right, but if the community is the gem, then perhaps it's time to start engaging them? :) Jul 10 17:52:48 I'm still pretty happy with how Android is going, but that SDK business was a speed bump Jul 10 17:52:49 From the carriers' perspective, Android is probably for more technically interesting than it is to an average ISV-style developer Jul 10 17:53:21 The SDK business is complicated, sadly Jul 10 17:53:53 I haven't seen that post by Digit before Jul 10 17:53:58 It's actually not "inept bumbling", though I am certainly not going to fault anyone for believing that anyway even if I say it ;) Jul 10 17:53:59 morrildl, well, we're smart people, explain it to us, visibly and publicly. Jul 10 17:54:06 davidw: exactly. I *can't* Jul 10 17:54:13 ...which is the issue. Jul 10 17:54:22 there's no one here who doesn't know exactly what hte cost is Jul 10 17:54:22 morrildl, ok, that's what I view as inept bumbling then Jul 10 17:54:29 no no Jul 10 17:54:38 I do sincerely believe that Android has a chance to be different, but only in spirit and by convention. The biggest reason that Linux development is so much easier and more exciting is because of the folks that are coalescing around it. The collective thought process of those individuals makes it so great. Jul 10 17:54:39 it's not that I am not permitted by some fool in upper management Jul 10 17:54:47 we *cannot* really talk about it Jul 10 17:54:57 but as I said, the why is irrelevant :) Jul 10 17:55:43 For instance, PR tried the tack of saying "it's too buggy" basically, but we put the kybosh on that Jul 10 17:55:45 I think it boils down to manpower...I don't think they have the spare manpower to work on the public sdk Jul 10 17:55:49 morrildl: so you should just hire us! Jul 10 17:55:56 ...because it's demonstrably false: it's not so buggy that we can't give it to some people Jul 10 17:56:09 zhobbs_, ok, that's fair enough, come out and say something Jul 10 17:56:11 So, my point is simply that the community is the important key. A wealth of open sharing of ideas, solutions, and projects is very important ot the success of a platform which is not technically any more capable than existing products. Jul 10 17:56:19 davidw: I agree! Jul 10 17:56:22 I'm probably skirting a little close to what I should not be saying here, but... Jul 10 17:56:48 Manpower is a component of it, but not the entire story Jul 10 17:57:09 ah Jul 10 17:57:17 * davidw goes to have another glass of wine and make silly faces at the baby Jul 10 17:57:33 morrildl: so why not hire us? :) Jul 10 17:58:05 michaelnovakjr: I can certainly enter anyone who's interested into the recruiting system ;) Jul 10 17:58:14 :) Jul 10 17:58:25 morrildl, ok, but these things just get me more and more confused, and whatever the "why's", in an open source community, you can't have secrets like that Jul 10 17:58:28 who better than your hardcore android nerds? Jul 10 17:58:41 morrildl, we're willing to wait for it to be 'truly open source', as I wrote Jul 10 17:58:44 davidw: yup, and like I said I realize it doesn't make any difference Jul 10 17:58:55 this is not me explaining stuff Jul 10 17:58:57 morrildl: you once said early on in these discussions that you wondered if it would have been better for Google not to call this an open project yet. Jul 10 17:59:04 this is me having a conversation with developers Jul 10 17:59:13 I hope you realize now that you were thinking in the right area ;) Jul 10 17:59:33 so we're ok with compromises and explanations and 'not yets', but weird communications are suboptimal. But I guess if you guys realize that and can't do anything, there's no use belaboring the point Jul 10 17:59:45 We agree that the communications are weird. Jul 10 17:59:50 To claim openness is to imply a contract of openness. There is no such contract. Jul 10 17:59:55 i can understand that communications are weird Jul 10 18:00:02 We don't want them to be weird. Jul 10 18:00:09 of course Jul 10 18:00:13 And yet... they continue to be weird. Jul 10 18:00:13 morrildl: Who is "we", exactly? You? Jul 10 18:00:20 and they probably wouldn't be if the word open wasn't used Jul 10 18:00:25 We is Android, everyone up to and including Andy Rubin Jul 10 18:00:30 ... but our alien overlords stole our tinfoil hats and we can't escape the mind rays forcing us to be weird ... ?;-) Jul 10 18:00:40 davidw: ;) Jul 10 18:00:48 ok, wine, wife and 'mohrs' Jul 10 18:00:49 that's actually.... funnier than you know :) Jul 10 18:01:07 I'm assuming that Google is being gagged by an OHA member...probably t-mobile or HTC Jul 10 18:01:19 morrildl: The collective of powers responsible for decision making at Google and on this project do, in fact, demand that communication is weird. Jul 10 18:01:24 i think call it open was the a bigger issue than one could have not predicted Jul 10 18:01:26 It is, ultimately and all things considered, what they "want". Jul 10 18:01:42 So don't presume otherwise just because you and your immediate peers are displeased. Jul 10 18:02:00 jasta: uh Jul 10 18:02:21 jasta: I don't name-drop idly. I actually talked to Andy Rubin about this yesterday Jul 10 18:02:31 heh heh Jul 10 18:02:40 morrildl: It is a simple process of behaviour. If I want X, and you want Y, and we decide on Z, then we WANTED Z, all things considered. Jul 10 18:02:41 anyway this is what I was whining about in my blog Jul 10 18:03:07 I can say stuff and people don't believe it, but having been there I understand why, now :) Jul 10 18:03:27 jasta: that's assuming a closed system Jul 10 18:03:34 ...and that probably is just about as far as I can go. :) Jul 10 18:04:25 morrildl: no, it's not. It's assuming the collective of all individuals capable of providing input. Jul 10 18:04:42 well, I feel for you morrildl...I think you're probably in a touch spot for a couple months until more is said by the vendors/carriers Jul 10 18:04:46 tough* Jul 10 18:04:55 Because obviously, we aren't in that collective, and I think that people you don't know are. Jul 10 18:05:25 hahahaha Jul 10 18:05:32 that's also funnier than you know :) Jul 10 18:05:45 I don't see the humor, Dan. Jul 10 18:05:53 and I realize at this point I am being gratuitously mysterious, so I'll stop :) Jul 10 18:06:11 I see you trying to excuse the project using your team as the only proxy. That excuses nothing, and appeases no one. Jul 10 18:06:22 but the takeaway here is that there's no one involved who doesn't want an SDK. but some gears are turning, and it's going to take some time to turn Jul 10 18:06:39 That statement is logically false. Jul 10 18:06:43 jasta: with respect to your position, I think you need to not assume you know what the team looks like Jul 10 18:07:39 You put forward that the collective of powers has reached a consensus but is unwilling or unable to agree to their consensus. That is a false condition. Jul 10 18:08:14 morrildl: I don't need to assume what the team looks like. I need only assume that I understand the definition of the word consensus. Where you do not. Jul 10 18:09:16 Either a consensus has been reached, or it has not. If, as you say, it has been reached and the consensus is to release an SDK now, then it would be so. That consensus was not reached by the governing bodies. Jul 10 18:10:08 This is a simple exercise in semantics and logic. You are not permitted to avoid it by asserting claims which contradict reality. Jul 10 18:10:27 Unless of course you expect for us to disbelieve you, and are not being sincere. Jul 10 18:11:10 I'd be happy to defend my assertions after what is not known becomes known. I am confident my logic will remain correct. Jul 10 18:12:45 wonder why this didn't come up at the fireside chat...I'd like to have seen Andy respond to some of these questions Jul 10 18:14:05 i actually wanted to have said something, but i ultimately became discouraged by prior events. also, i had to catch my flight. Jul 10 18:15:37 The answers demonstrated by the fireside chat, and also combining conversations with Dan and Jason prior to that, led me to a reasonable conclusion that I would get a run-around answer and it would require extremely elevated hostility to get my point across to the audience. Jul 10 18:16:46 Which I felt would have been unnecessary and inappropriate. Jul 10 18:20:30 jasta: you're pretty much over the top now Jul 10 18:25:15 morrildl: blink once if there is an internal struggle between google and another OHA member Jul 10 18:25:30 Hmm? no Jul 10 18:26:46 there's certainly no conflict of that sort Jul 10 18:27:42 k Jul 10 18:59:09 morrildl: I'm "over the top" now? Jul 10 19:07:39 jasta, like sylvester stallone Jul 10 19:08:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Top Jul 10 19:08:25 > starring Sylvester Stallone, produced and directed by Menahem Golan about a long haul truck driver who tries to win back his alienated son while becoming a champion arm wrestler. Jul 10 19:10:05 har Jul 10 19:10:26 > Although not highly regarded for its cinematic merits, it has been suggested that Over The Top falls into the "so bad it's good" category Jul 10 19:11:01 haha Jul 10 19:20:51 I'm just getting so frustrated by all this tongue-in-cheek secret nonsense. Jul 10 19:21:25 And I'm especially irritated that he speaks from this blameless superior position, as though it isn't really Google who is making this situation it's bad, it's some unknown deity. Jul 10 19:21:36 this situation so bad* Jul 10 19:22:18 And we're just supposed to accept that reasoning as valid and sensible. Jul 10 19:29:47 Actually, it's a lot easier to just be complacent with him not saying anything at all. Unless there is real news to report, just be quiet to keep the peace. Jul 10 19:38:15 jasta: as I've said several times, I don't expect you to change your opinion Jul 10 19:38:27 I am a developer, shooting the shit with other develoeprs Jul 10 19:38:30 there are things I can't say Jul 10 19:38:54 the business world is sometimes silly and obnoxious, and this is one of those times Jul 10 19:38:59 I'm not "excusing" anything Jul 10 19:39:42 but it's a little over the top to start arguing about semantics and "reality" Jul 10 19:40:23 Whether it's intentional, ineptitude, or unavoidable circumstances is irrelevant, since it doesn't change the fact that rightt now there is no SDK Jul 10 19:40:45 but if just chatting and hearing as much as I can tell you isn't worth it to you, then just leave it alone Jul 10 19:43:14 morrildl: I wasn't arguing about the SDK, I was only arguing semantics because I was frustrated by what *YOU* were saying. Jul 10 19:43:25 okay Jul 10 19:43:28 Don't excuse Google, the OHA, or the platform just because you don't agree with the situation. Jul 10 19:43:38 It isn't truthful or genuine, and it's frankly annoying to hear. Jul 10 19:44:06 jasta: You've missed the point. I have not told you anything that is untrue, in ingenuine Jul 10 19:44:28 [10:59] We agree that the communications are weird. Jul 10 19:44:29 I will say it again, point blank and straight up: everyone involved realizes that the lack of an SDK is problem for developers, and it's a bad situation Jul 10 19:44:32 [11:00] We don't want them to be weird. Jul 10 19:44:49 that is everyone, from me, through Andy Rubin, the head of the project Jul 10 19:45:02 The reasons why are unfortunately something we can't talk about Jul 10 19:45:03 I told you, "We" to us doesn't include that group. Jul 10 19:45:16 he said it did before Jul 10 19:46:10 I'm sorry that doesn't sit well with you, but that's the reality. Jul 10 19:46:19 We see Android only as a single, concrete entity. We don't see Google, your peers, the OHA, we see the thing that it is. Whoever makes this decision, someone decided it ought not release a new SDK now. Jul 10 19:47:06 And that no one should communicate formally with the public about that. Jul 10 19:47:58 We know which group doesn't support this decision, and we know that you're in it. Jul 10 19:48:13 being content to wait for hardware, I'm actually a bit more confused by the communications than the actual SDK, but this is going around in circles Jul 10 19:48:31 its all speculation though Jul 10 19:48:39 no one knows except google Jul 10 19:49:01 morrildl: My point is, Android as an entity does not sit blameless simply because you can find a group of people who thinks this is stupid. Jul 10 19:49:02 assuming dan is in the group is as good as a guess as what he had for lunch Jul 10 19:49:31 michaelnovakjr: Well, he has said that he doesn't like it. I assume he wouldn't lie about that :) Jul 10 19:49:32 he had hot dogs. Jul 10 19:50:03 jasta: you keep getting hung up on this blame thing Jul 10 19:50:11 who *would* like being continually pestered by jasta?:-) Jul 10 19:50:20 I'm not trying to tell you that OMG there really IS an SDK out there somewhere, hiding from you Jul 10 19:50:27 I'm not saying it doesn't suck Jul 10 19:50:50 I'm just saying that we wish we could release one publicly, but we haven't been able to do that Jul 10 19:51:08 I'm telling you that is only true for certain values of "we". Jul 10 19:51:25 ...which you are not in a position to say Jul 10 19:51:43 and theres some silly shady reason that no one can offer an explanation as to _why_? Jul 10 19:51:50 Yes, I am. This goes back to my earlier logical assertion independent of the particulars of this conversation. Jul 10 19:51:53 yakischloba: basically, yes :) Jul 10 19:52:50 morrildl: that sure makes poor relationships with the developer community and depletes trust in the conglomerate that is responsible for Android :/ Jul 10 19:53:09 yakischloba: yeah, it's definitely not ideal Jul 10 19:53:40 morrildl: Do you understand why I got "over the top" with my logical assertion? It makes no sense to claim that "we" have reached a consensus and yet "we" do not agree with it. Jul 10 19:53:59 The only way what you say is true is for certain values of "we" which doesn't include folks making decisions about Android! Jul 10 19:54:23 Meaning, we sub 1 has a consensus that we sub 2 doesn't have :) Jul 10 19:54:24 can you prove that Jul 10 19:54:28 morrildl: How could someone feel comfortable investing their time into a package that they can't get a straight answer about? Jul 10 19:54:31 Yes, it's an easy logical proof. Jul 10 19:55:15 michaelnovakjr: By the definition of consensus, it is an agreement reached by a group. That group cannot both agree to behave one way, and simultaneously disagree to behave that way. Jul 10 19:55:24 why not Jul 10 19:55:32 people shouldn't smoke but they still do Jul 10 19:55:35 Because it fails the definition. An agreement is not a disagreement. Jul 10 19:55:39 and they know they shouldn't Jul 10 19:55:46 yakischloba, I think he and supposedly others get that... but the alien mind control device won't let them talk about the reasons for keeping secrets Jul 10 19:55:53 Actually "people shouldn't smoke" is not a consensus, because it's not an agreement reached by all. Jul 10 19:55:54 so this discussion is basically at an impasse Jul 10 19:56:07 but the people that make the decision feel that way Jul 10 19:56:09 You demonstrated why morrildl is wrong. Because one group believes people shouldn't smoke, but not everyone capable of smoking is in that group. Jul 10 19:56:24 think of the people who smoke Jul 10 19:56:34 there are people that feel they shouldn't but still do Jul 10 19:56:52 yakischloba: You asked rhetorically perhaps, but yes that's the key issue. I'd also be skeptical. Jul 10 19:56:54 if i was to say smoking is bad i shouldn't do it, but then in 5 minutes i go downstairs and light one up Jul 10 19:57:12 I think most people would smoke - if you heat them up enough. Jul 10 19:57:13 i agree i shouldn't but i still do it Jul 10 19:57:18 michaelnovakjr: That isn't a genuine expression, though. They only say that from socila conditioning. Jul 10 19:57:23 The best I can say now is that it is temporary, and once a few stupid obnoxious business gears grind out, it'll be full speed ahead Jul 10 19:58:03 Just goes to show that money talks and anyone without it will always come in second on the priority list. Jul 10 19:58:20 yakischloba: Hey now, don't forget sex. Jul 10 19:58:22 ;) Jul 10 19:58:46 Money buys sex Jul 10 19:58:47 There are a lot of different types of currency ;) Jul 10 19:58:54 So like I said, money comes #1 Jul 10 19:59:35 Well, no, my priority list is often going to favor sexy women over rich men. :) Jul 10 19:59:58 As a rich man you'd more often attract sexy women :) Jul 10 20:00:00 Anyway, I'll agree to disagree with jasta over certain matters of specifics ;) Jul 10 20:00:15 I think you'll agree to reject sensible logic, then. Jul 10 20:00:29 morrildl: You do realize the point of all this right? Jul 10 20:00:40 jasta: killing time waiting for a new SDK? ;) Jul 10 20:00:43 I'm trying to demonstrate that we only care what decisions are possible, not that you didn't make them. Jul 10 20:00:51 jasta: I understand that Jul 10 20:01:04 So that "we" nonsense bothers me, since it is only true for certain values of "we". Jul 10 20:01:06 Like I said, I don't expect yo u to go home tonight full of rainbows and sunshine Jul 10 20:01:18 I'm just telling you as much as I can Jul 10 20:01:32 take it or leave it :) Jul 10 20:01:54 I choose to leave it, and I think by this conversation I hope to convince you to stop giving us this type of exchange. Jul 10 20:02:11 Real information or avoid the subject entirely. Jul 10 20:02:15 morrildl: Makes me wonder why you get into this at all, with what you're 'allowed to say' always falling short of what people want to hear. Jul 10 20:02:33 Exactly, why not just say nothing? Please! Jul 10 20:03:14 because people bring it up Jul 10 20:03:27 if we talked about the trees it wouldn't come up :) Jul 10 20:04:13 jasta is back Jul 10 20:04:53 hmm? Jul 10 20:06:41 Existing in the mobile industry is such a bitch. Jul 10 20:07:48 jasta: word Jul 10 20:15:04 why is eveyrone so tight-lipped about the ADC Jul 10 20:15:24 what about it? Jul 10 20:15:25 greedy toads Jul 10 20:15:33 u mean about the one in the spring? Jul 10 20:15:52 i mean the current one Jul 10 20:16:08 re. SDK Jul 10 20:17:51 oh boy here we go again Jul 10 20:18:47 Its ok one of these days I'll actually start learning this stuff and bother the channel with noob questions all day. Jul 10 20:19:35 :) Jul 10 20:19:37 please! Jul 10 20:22:24 yakischloba: it would be preferred to this nonsense Jul 10 20:23:45 heh. Jul 10 20:28:11 f00f-: how is the ADC going, btw? Jul 10 20:28:31 i get the sense that you guys haven't been working very hard, but maybe that's just because we're no longer in the same boat. Jul 10 20:28:58 jasta: i slacked the 1st month, and now we're really ramping up Jul 10 20:30:07 i'm really excited about publishing the app, i'm already being convinced that it'll be useful Jul 10 20:30:50 i should hope so :) Jul 10 20:48:45 http://www.samsung.com/us/support/spec/supportSpecSearch.do?_site_cd=us&group=mobilephones&group_cd=&type=mobilephones&type_cd=&subtype=sprint&subtype_cd=&model_nm=SPH-M800&dType=&vType=R&mType=UM&model_cd=SPH-M800ZKASPR&fullspec=F&prd_ia_cd=01010200&acc_ia_fl=null&disp_nm=Instinct++(SPH-m800)&menu=&isEqualsY=&sel_model_cd=SPH-M800ZKASPR Jul 10 20:48:53 look close at the screens ;) Jul 10 21:00:53 anno^da: what are we looking at? Jul 10 21:02:27 bbl Jul 11 00:21:48 hey michaelnovakjr_ Jul 11 00:22:30 hey Jul 11 00:23:46 what's up? Jul 11 00:27:50 not too much Jul 11 00:28:47 hey - ever run into an issue where emulated Android just hangs when booting up? Jul 11 00:29:35 red progress bar keeps going, CPU utilization at 100% and it stays that way Jul 11 00:29:41 Are you running on Linux? Jul 11 00:30:10 yea Jul 11 00:30:20 its not great on linux/windows Jul 11 00:31:16 yeah its happening on my Linux box Jul 11 00:43:12 any reasons as to why it happens/how to fix it? Jul 11 00:45:14 try to disable the audio Jul 11 00:45:54 how exactly do I disable audio? Jul 11 00:49:22 emulator -noaudio Jul 11 00:49:56 awesome thanks lemme try Jul 11 00:54:23 hmmmm looks like its just handing on "binder_mmap: 509 ........." Jul 11 00:54:28 hanging* Jul 11 00:55:35 then try to wipe the data Jul 11 00:57:45 alrighty Jul 11 00:57:47 thanks Jul 11 01:13:00 whats up Dougie187 Jul 11 01:13:06 not too much Jul 11 01:13:06 you? Jul 11 01:41:09 eh, same old Jul 11 01:41:30 you get a laptop yet? Jul 11 01:44:43 well.. its bed time now. Jul 11 01:44:45 talk to you later! Jul 11 02:20:52 howdy Jul 11 02:25:53 hey Jul 11 02:26:01 watchin WLTV on revision3 Jul 11 02:26:07 live feed went dead :( Jul 11 02:26:39 WLTV? Jul 11 02:28:28 wine library TV Jul 11 02:32:18 ah Jul 11 02:32:36 figure out your emulator issue? Jul 11 02:41:55 nahhh Jul 11 02:42:02 it's like hit-or-miss if it loads of not Jul 11 02:42:37 sometimes it just hangs forever at the red loading bar Jul 11 02:42:51 have you modified it at all? Jul 11 02:42:56 no Jul 11 02:42:57 stored data? Jul 11 02:43:12 what distro are you using? Jul 11 02:43:23 i completely overwrote the entire SDK directory fresh Jul 11 02:43:29 ubuntu Jul 11 02:43:41 are you using eclipse? Jul 11 02:43:54 both - yes and no Jul 11 02:44:02 but it wont load in eclipse either Jul 11 02:44:03 same thing Jul 11 02:44:11 i've notice the eclipse plugin is terrible Jul 11 02:44:30 i stopped using eclipse Jul 11 02:44:33 and it turns my laptop into a flaming heap of plastic Jul 11 02:44:54 have you tailed the log? Jul 11 02:45:02 CPU at 100% until I decide enough is enough Jul 11 02:45:21 adb logcat ? Jul 11 02:45:25 yea Jul 11 02:45:33 good idea Jul 11 02:45:35 lemme try Jul 11 02:45:50 sometimes it loads in 30 seconds Jul 11 02:45:54 sometimes never Jul 11 02:46:07 i'd be curious to see the log output Jul 11 02:46:15 until my laptop gets glowing nuclear radiation hot Jul 11 02:46:47 ^C Jul 11 02:47:08 lemme check out logcatr Jul 11 02:47:09 ^C Jul 11 02:47:22 KTAARL Jul 11 02:47:29 agreed Jul 11 02:47:34 haha Jul 11 02:48:47 logcatting now Jul 11 02:49:41 weird Jul 11 02:49:47 lolcat Jul 11 02:49:57 this is a fresh install but i just saw it make a reference to com.ramandwhiskey Jul 11 02:50:05 which is an app i made Jul 11 02:50:19 does it support org.vodka.* ? Jul 11 02:50:27 i wish Jul 11 02:50:28 :) Jul 11 02:50:33 pastebin the output Jul 11 02:50:41 damnit...no problems Jul 11 02:50:43 booted fine Jul 11 02:50:45 come onnnnnn Jul 11 02:50:53 the one time i want it to fail Jul 11 02:50:54 do you see your app in the emulator? Jul 11 02:51:08 hmmmm Jul 11 02:51:09 yeah Jul 11 02:51:20 i completely wiped the entire SDK dir Jul 11 02:51:34 run this.... Jul 11 02:51:41 emulator --wipe-data Jul 11 02:52:35 that opened a new one Jul 11 02:53:20 logcatting that one now Jul 11 02:55:43 if that doesn't work... i added an extra dash Jul 11 02:55:50 its emulator -wipe-data Jul 11 02:56:41 ok thats done Jul 11 02:56:48 booted again Jul 11 02:57:04 but an exception about an application not responding Jul 11 02:57:12 which application Jul 11 02:58:45 crap should have written it down Jul 11 02:59:11 com.google Jul 11 02:59:44 something like that **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 11 02:59:56 2008