**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 15 02:59:56 2008 Jul 15 06:54:39 Hey, How hard would it be to implement a simple SNMP client with the current SDK? Like a really simple app that would just connect to a router or some other device and get some info from it through SNMP? Jul 15 07:38:09 morning not-iphone dudez Jul 15 07:39:21 damn, they managed to misquote me:-/ Jul 15 07:39:31 davidw: what did you expect? Jul 15 07:39:38 * romainguy worked as a journalist for 5 years :)) Jul 15 07:40:42 well, I did get my Hecl link Jul 15 07:40:59 you never give up :) Jul 15 07:42:59 does anyone who does ever get anywhere? Jul 15 08:38:14 romainguy, what percent chance would you estimate that protobuf makes it's way into android? Jul 15 08:38:34 what is protobuf Jul 15 08:38:53 alex2308, a msg format for rpc like JSON Jul 15 08:39:46 googled it, doenst look very impressive Jul 15 08:40:30 that was some fast analysis Jul 15 08:40:53 I dont think its meant to shake the internets...I just happen to find it useful Jul 15 08:41:48 ofc, once you start using it, it might be useful Jul 15 08:42:01 i prefer java serialisation or xml Jul 15 08:42:07 depending on the needs Jul 15 08:42:24 but (imh-fast-look-o) it looks the same Jul 15 08:42:25 so nobody has any idea about how hard would it be to implement SNMP? maybe some of you know if its at least possible to write working UDP apps? Jul 15 08:42:49 jota-: i think its possible to write udp apps Jul 15 08:44:33 ok thx, that means its also possible to test them using the emulator right? like I could write at an app that connects to UDP port X and test it using a server listening on port X on my network right? Jul 15 08:51:22 jota-: yes, try this http://www.anddev.org/socket_programming-t325.html Jul 15 08:52:00 ok, thx a lot Jul 15 08:53:13 youre welcome Jul 15 09:03:10 http://blog.morrildl.net/2008/07/my-obligatory-foo-post.html Jul 15 09:03:15 that's cool Jul 15 11:10:49 thats nerd stuff you geek Jul 15 11:10:55 thats not cool Jul 15 11:11:58 Good morning. Jul 15 11:14:11 <|Phocion|> hey mornin Jul 15 11:18:15 ho Jul 15 11:31:34 <|Phocion|> http://www.talkandroid.com/135-no-android-sdk-updates/ Jul 15 11:47:17 there is a typo ("detial" instead of detail) Jul 15 12:11:01 hi Jul 15 12:11:16 did you guys already talk about : "Final SDK build available (84853); deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5"-Mails ? Jul 15 12:11:30 was it a mistake? Jul 15 12:34:12 about what ? Jul 15 12:34:16 @ plusminus_ Jul 15 12:35:03 the mail all adc-entrants received, which contained this sentence: Jul 15 12:35:04 We're pleased to announce that SDK build 84853 is now available on your private download site. This will be the last build released for ADC Round 2 and is the build that you will need to submit your final application under. Jul 15 12:35:40 It sounds like a mistake to me... Jul 15 12:35:56 or intelligent PR Jul 15 12:36:03 Hmm havent taken part in the ADC Jul 15 12:36:19 ^^ Jul 15 12:37:20 I was like jumping around ... skimming over it... xD Jul 15 12:37:58 46 adc winners are public, right? Jul 15 12:38:05 lets hack some account and steal the sdk Jul 15 12:40:46 i'd love to get it legally ;) Jul 15 12:41:14 what about Jeffrey.Sharkey@gmail.com, student, american. makes a good victim Jul 15 12:42:31 he got "Scan" doesn't he? Jul 15 12:42:43 he has a blog running wordpress, i might get hands on non-public wp exploit Jul 15 12:42:55 but ill need someone with md5 rainbow tables Jul 15 12:42:58 yes, he does Jul 15 12:43:45 maybe we can send him an barcode that makes his emulator execute code that hacks through to his real device, that submits his sdk to rapidshare... :D Jul 15 12:44:01 "... his desktop machine..." Jul 15 12:44:23 no we cant Jul 15 12:44:35 because all we have is a pretty outdated alpha of the sdk Jul 15 12:45:27 life sucks Jul 15 12:45:55 especially if you are not a owner of SDK build 84853... Jul 15 12:46:02 im working on the wordpress exploit Jul 15 12:46:11 just wait Jul 15 12:46:22 ... your choice.. Jul 15 12:46:43 its like jailbraking the gphone hahaha Jul 15 12:52:52 hah, they still mentioned me in the article: Jul 15 12:52:52 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/14/android_developer_unrest/ Jul 15 12:54:02 who is you Jul 15 12:54:45 zach hobbs Jul 15 12:55:18 makes sense Jul 15 12:55:23 you got a wordpress blog? Jul 15 12:55:28 ^^ Jul 15 12:55:36 no Jul 15 12:55:38 helloandroid.com Jul 15 12:56:03 I can google my self and find me on some large technews-sites :D Jul 15 12:57:28 hey, you worked hard on anddev.org Jul 15 12:58:14 you arent far from my favorite winamp radio stream Jul 15 12:58:28 @ hobbs Jul 15 12:58:37 oh yeah? Jul 15 12:58:57 how you know where I'm at? :) Jul 15 12:59:32 the simplest thing would be a whois on your domain Jul 15 13:00:07 zhobbs thx :) Jul 15 13:01:16 alex2308: yeah, I guess that works Jul 15 13:02:00 ofc it does Jul 15 13:02:12 my fav station is in tampa (www.orbitalgroovesradio.com) Jul 15 13:03:13 they screwed up a few things about what I said Jul 15 13:03:16 that's cool, know lots of people from tampa Jul 15 13:03:36 my brother is moving to florida, I guess Jul 15 13:04:30 houses are cheap right now, especially if you're paying with euros Jul 15 13:04:55 im earning euros ^^ Jul 15 13:05:16 but i dont want to move to the staates Jul 15 13:06:15 you probably would have trouble getting in:-/ Jul 15 13:07:37 hm, why? Jul 15 13:09:08 we don't just take anyone! but we'll look the other way if you're interesting in picking oranges for $2.50 / hour Jul 15 13:09:25 interested* Jul 15 13:09:50 im working on my master degree in computer science Jul 15 13:15:43 I'm tired of deadline extensions...getting burnt out Jul 15 13:15:46 the US has a lot of bureaucracy regarding immigrants Jul 15 13:16:12 I did my J1-Visa today and it was a farce Jul 15 13:16:19 just like most European countries... you have to have a company hire you before you go Jul 15 13:16:31 how so? Jul 15 13:16:32 Where do you go ? - Maryland, Fraunhofer Center Jul 15 13:16:40 How Long ? - 6 Months Jul 15 13:16:43 Good bye Jul 15 13:16:46 o_O Jul 15 13:17:02 those are the educational ones, right? Jul 15 13:17:02 because you have an academic degree Jul 15 13:17:10 they kiss your ass for that Jul 15 13:17:17 davidw yes Jul 15 13:17:21 alex2308, well... even then, not necessarily Jul 15 13:17:22 ^^ Jul 15 13:17:30 plusminus_, probably it's that you're going short term Jul 15 13:17:42 non-permanent Jul 15 13:17:50 I remember when they took forever to give Linus Torvalds his green card Jul 15 13:18:03 we had to wait for like 2 hours, just for these two sentences ... Jul 15 13:18:04 because he looks like a terorrist Jul 15 13:18:10 :-D Jul 15 13:18:50 id rather go to japan or china than usa nowadays Jul 15 13:19:03 http://sandcat.nl/~hugo/fun/20050427-unix.jpg Jul 15 13:19:15 alex2308, don't believe the hype - there are still lots of good things about the US Jul 15 13:19:18 Android is kinda linuxbased too... Jul 15 13:19:20 xD Jul 15 13:19:24 heh Jul 15 13:19:41 my wife uses Linux too:-) Jul 15 13:19:59 davidw: ofc they are, wasnt offending, but imho its enough to go to asia and work in europe Jul 15 13:20:42 keep up with the wave. the wave is in asia atm Jul 15 13:20:52 if it moves back to the US, go to the US Jul 15 13:22:24 I don't think I can learn another language...esp not chinese/japanese Jul 15 13:23:08 you speak english, that should be enough Jul 15 13:30:59 i'm glad that android developers gave the press yet more fuel to gripe Jul 15 13:36:40 that article was stupid Jul 15 13:40:55 yeah Jul 15 13:41:02 there is no such thing as bad press Jul 15 13:41:18 michaelnovakjr which article? Jul 15 13:41:23 register Jul 15 13:41:31 hm why? Jul 15 13:42:55 they should have at least linked to my site when they mentioned me :) Jul 15 13:43:03 they misquoted me about 'upper management' Jul 15 13:43:10 I don't think that's the problem Jul 15 13:43:27 zhobbs :-P i got it this time Jul 15 13:43:33 hehe, I know! Jul 15 13:43:37 zhobbs, I spelled that part out for the guy pretty clearly:-) (now, that's Hecl dot org, h e c l) Jul 15 13:44:20 ahh, you got a link too Jul 15 13:44:43 and i get no link. neighter is my realnick mentioned. Jul 15 13:45:15 Temporary doubles the users :) Jul 15 13:45:44 my nick is also not named, just my full name... Jul 15 13:46:14 thats ok nico Jul 15 13:46:22 pssst !! Jul 15 13:46:39 dont you worry, im working for german telekom ag Jul 15 13:46:44 :D Jul 15 13:47:24 i should send a mail to the "Bild-Zeitung" ... I think they like to report abotu your work ;) Jul 15 13:47:46 btw I had asked about "Final SDK build available (84853); deadline extended to Tuesday, August 5" and.. Jul 15 13:47:58 pssst !! Jul 15 13:48:02 everbody is assuming it was meant to be sent to the finalists only.. Jul 15 13:48:13 no, i wasnt Jul 15 13:48:18 could anyone find a official answer ? Jul 15 13:48:39 it was meant for the finalists Jul 15 13:48:42 i think it was meant to leak, to keep developers working on android instead jumping on the iphone train (which runs pretty fast) Jul 15 13:48:53 it was a head hunting article Jul 15 13:49:26 i just don't understand that you'd take part in a bashing a platform that you apparently are very excited about Jul 15 13:49:45 zhobbs officially ? Jul 15 13:50:00 I think the bad press could help expedite the next sdk release Jul 15 13:50:03 plusminus_: yeah Jul 15 13:50:08 i doubt that very much Jul 15 13:50:08 thx Jul 15 13:50:25 in fact it'll just keep the google folks from having any real conversations with you Jul 15 13:50:27 im bashing android much less than the iphone Jul 15 13:50:30 plusminus_: he said that he was a victim of autocomplete in his mail app Jul 15 13:50:49 zhobbs :D Jul 15 13:51:05 although i do have an htc touch diamond (which might run android) and an iphone 3g Jul 15 13:51:11 michaelnovakjr Why should I lie ? My feelings about the whole sdk situation are far from perfect Jul 15 13:51:25 i didn't say lie Jul 15 13:51:40 haven't you heard of the saying, if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all Jul 15 13:51:52 never heard of it Jul 15 13:52:06 i don't agree with the nda sdk Jul 15 13:52:16 must be a us saying Jul 15 13:52:24 but i certainly won't go putting my name on such a statement over at newsweek Jul 15 13:52:48 i think its just a matter of poor taste Jul 15 13:52:48 michaelnovakjr: that's fine that you don't, but there'd be nothing wrong if you did Jul 15 13:53:18 I actually said a number of positive things to the guy, but of course that's not what he was looking for Jul 15 13:53:23 there was nothing good about android said in that article Jul 15 13:53:33 davidw :) Jul 15 13:53:39 he was head hunting Jul 15 13:53:54 he didn't want to talk about android Jul 15 13:54:03 he wanted to talk about the problems with android Jul 15 13:54:11 probably while writing from his new iphone 3g Jul 15 13:54:35 the more you help make android look like chaos the longer i'm sure those iphone lines will get Jul 15 13:54:39 well, the last sentence ("The Apple App Store is already open.") is pretty offending Jul 15 13:54:57 it's true, too Jul 15 13:55:15 the iphone is indeed nice Jul 15 13:55:25 i am certainly not saying it isn;t Jul 15 13:55:40 its just that it has to be broken and extremely expensive Jul 15 13:55:48 I think i mentioned that android-dev-team is working harder to get android to the stores instead of making public sdks. Jul 15 13:55:50 imho: 2 big no-go's Jul 15 13:56:56 anyway, I'd prefer at least one or two public sdks before that... Jul 15 13:57:13 plusminus_: saying you'd switch to the iphone or windows mobile, is a problem Jul 15 13:57:31 consumers reading that are going to get the completely wrong idea about the platform as a whole Jul 15 13:57:42 even though its not what you meant Jul 15 13:57:51 (atleast i assume :) ) Jul 15 13:58:02 he didnt say that, thats another quote (actually mine) Jul 15 13:58:11 i didn'tsay that .. Jul 15 13:58:18 "... reads a mostly intelligible post from one of the many developers voicing th ..." Jul 15 13:58:23 alex2308 :D Jul 15 13:58:40 yeah, i was pretty pissed that day Jul 15 13:59:27 in fact im daily pissed since i have to work on android Jul 15 13:59:44 maybe visit a psychiatrist ? :D Jul 15 13:59:58 just kiddin ;) Jul 15 14:00:09 or vacation Jul 15 14:00:11 haha my bad, the guy jumped around a bit Jul 15 14:00:37 yes, I also had to read that part twice Jul 15 14:00:56 instead of complaining and crying to the press about android, why not dig deep into some of the sdk where you maybe didn't during the challenge? Jul 15 14:01:02 btw, how did you compile your C code to run it on the emulator plusminus_? Jul 15 14:01:05 alex2308: oh yes vacation, 3 weeks without E-SMOG ... i hope i survive that Jul 15 14:01:09 write up some tutorials on android concepts Jul 15 14:01:14 alex2308: I never did that Jul 15 14:01:43 michaelnovakjr: ... had not muck time in the last weeks Jul 15 14:01:47 plusminus_: feels bad at first. then you get used to it. Jul 15 14:01:56 :D Jul 15 14:02:10 i just hate seeing the term android developers tossed around in negative articles Jul 15 14:02:21 now is vacation and after that 7 months maryland (I live in germany) Jul 15 14:02:25 me too Jul 15 14:02:37 i know where you live Jul 15 14:02:38 I think a couple of interestign apps would fit the news a lot better Jul 15 14:02:46 g2g ;) Jul 15 14:02:46 you are less than 50km from me Jul 15 14:02:54 Darmstadt ? Jul 15 14:03:01 Karlsruhe? Jul 15 14:03:02 work in darmstadt, live in frankfurt Jul 15 14:03:03 i'm still cracking away at an article Jul 15 14:03:08 gotcha ;) Jul 15 14:03:12 application** not article Jul 15 14:03:20 * davidw is actually working on the Hecl port of Android right now Jul 15 14:03:29 errr Jul 15 14:03:32 Android port of Hecl Jul 15 14:03:35 been in frakfurt (consulate) today Jul 15 14:03:37 my application is closed source until the release of handsets :) Jul 15 14:03:40 .. /afk Jul 15 14:03:56 im working on crosscompiled C code for the arm, which im trying to run on the emulator from inside the DVM Jul 15 14:04:16 alex2308: using a particular C library? Jul 15 14:04:33 atm i would be happy if the simplest possible C code would work Jul 15 14:05:05 (int main() { return 0; }) Jul 15 14:05:27 you forgot printf( "hello android!" ); Jul 15 14:05:40 :) Jul 15 14:05:43 i do get a segmentation fault when i run it in android Jul 15 14:05:53 what are you compiling with? Jul 15 14:06:55 yagarto Jul 15 14:07:00 its a windows crosscompiler suite Jul 15 14:07:13 hm Jul 15 14:07:18 why not use gcc? Jul 15 14:07:25 it does use gcc Jul 15 14:07:54 are you copying the executable to the emulator shell and trying to run it? Jul 15 14:08:34 no, compiling on windows system, moving to emulator and trying to run Jul 15 14:08:41 that is what i meant Jul 15 14:09:06 that seems interesting Jul 15 14:10:20 [1] Segmentation fault ./test Jul 15 14:11:08 hmm. that article :/ Jul 15 14:11:22 article sucked Jul 15 14:11:38 yeah. Jul 15 14:11:49 Basically talking bad about Android and hoping that therefore the SDK will be released sonner is pretty stupid Jul 15 14:12:24 yup. I was hoping that wouldn't be the approach but...blah. Jul 15 14:12:49 spykid i finally agree with you :) Jul 15 14:13:08 There are so many people out there who hope that Google fails with Android and they hope for such things... Jul 15 14:14:03 It also makes a good headline Jul 15 14:14:11 yep Jul 15 14:14:22 criticism is good, you can't just give a free pass when you disagree Jul 15 14:14:52 that is not disagreeing Jul 15 14:14:57 that was distasteful Jul 15 14:15:16 nah Jul 15 14:15:26 Criticism is Ok, but if you give sensation hungry press people what they want and hope to get something in return you are acting like a little child Jul 15 14:18:40 Only one thing better than an sdk release. Bacon. Mmmmmm Bacon. Jul 15 14:21:33 i second that Jul 15 14:22:02 definitely Jul 15 14:23:53 but a sdk wont make you fat.. Jul 15 14:24:41 I dunno, with all this ADC stuff I haven't had time for exercise! Jul 15 14:24:49 Contrary to my claims of stopping development on Android I have continued to work away. What is the consensus on how hard it will be upgrade to the latest once the sdk is released? Jul 15 14:25:15 dmoffett: no one has really said Jul 15 14:25:24 i'm still plugging away Jul 15 14:26:54 Can the some of the ADC winners comment on the degree of changes or is that forbidden as well? Jul 15 14:27:12 pretty sure thats a no no Jul 15 14:31:34 btw, will there be any group working on a really open android Jul 15 14:31:55 im pretty sure network providers will create their own version and not all will be as free as mentioned Jul 15 14:31:56 what do you mean? Jul 15 14:33:05 probably to get Android work on open devices like the FIC Neo Freerunner Jul 15 14:33:26 but therefore you need the Android source code. So ther wont be developement untill the first devices are released. Jul 15 14:33:42 I would think we'll be able to undo all the carrier bs Jul 15 14:34:15 i'll certainly be active in providing a free and open way of running android on your device Jul 15 14:34:38 btw michaelnovakjr squeezecenter works pretty nice :). Having tested the whole setup now for two days and dont need a software player installed here anymore. :) Jul 15 14:34:57 nice Jul 15 14:35:01 id prefer some more handy devices like the HTC ones. the freerunner is imho way too ugly and big Jul 15 14:35:22 I'll keep you up to date about the server working together with some real Squeezbox. Jul 15 14:35:32 sweet Jul 15 14:35:43 alex2308: i'll be quite invested in the HTC versions :) Jul 15 14:35:56 HTC will be my choice as well Jul 15 14:36:22 do you own any htc devices atm? Jul 15 14:36:51 i have one Jul 15 14:38:01 let me guess, a tytn ii? Jul 15 14:38:20 No at the moment I'm not owning one Jul 15 14:38:28 i have the touch Jul 15 14:38:35 as its known in america Jul 15 14:38:41 but I like the case design if it is not branded by t-mobile or some different carrierer. Jul 15 14:39:04 i have the o2 xda diamond (htc touch diamond), but its barely branded Jul 15 14:39:11 michaelnovakjr: do you know archive.org or ? Jul 15 14:39:17 decent design, but wracky OS Jul 15 14:40:21 anno^da: yes Jul 15 14:41:10 I've updated my Squeezcenter today to the latest version and it's now supporting archive.org (besides Pandora and a lot of other services) Jul 15 14:41:30 You can browse through the complete library of archive.org and listen to the concerts. Jul 15 14:41:32 nice Jul 15 14:41:48 romainguy_: you awake yet? Jul 15 14:42:06 romainguy_: I don't understand View.getTag() as you use it here: http://androidguys.com/2008/07/14/fancy-listviews-part-one/#comment-1374 Jul 15 14:43:45 like, what if you have multiple image/text views? Jul 15 14:44:02 alex2308: i am building my cross compiler now Jul 15 14:46:11 which one do you use? Jul 15 14:46:18 gcc Jul 15 14:46:24 binutils and newlib Jul 15 14:46:32 linux environment? Jul 15 14:46:44 yeaz Jul 15 14:47:04 hm, im on windows atm, but i could switch to linux, that shouldnt be a problem Jul 15 14:47:19 figured i would give it a go Jul 15 14:47:35 zhobbs have you been aware of ViewHolder before romainguy's post ? Jul 15 14:47:36 its not bad knowing both systems Jul 15 14:47:55 nope, i really only use visual studio on windows Jul 15 14:48:01 otherwise i am a linux guy Jul 15 14:48:48 im a windows guy, but i do have ubuntu on my lap, debian on my server and bsd and gentoo on a second machine Jul 15 14:49:06 nice Jul 15 14:49:17 nah, chaotic :) Jul 15 14:49:25 i use freebsd on most of my servers, my mail server runs redhat Jul 15 14:49:33 and i have a windows server system as well Jul 15 14:49:59 gentoo is pretty dead, bsd very outdated, ubuntu and debian up and running but i do use win xp and vista mainly Jul 15 14:50:10 i love bsd Jul 15 14:50:25 fyi, ViewHolder is not in M5. Jul 15 14:50:52 oh my god, he defines the class 2 lines above Jul 15 14:51:11 thought youre gone +- Jul 15 14:51:18 oh, i didn't even look at the post :) Jul 15 14:51:19 im back Jul 15 14:51:21 gas is full Jul 15 14:51:38 77 € filling fully Jul 15 14:51:45 golf 3? Jul 15 14:52:02 fast Jul 15 14:52:10 that is 122.47 $$$$$ Jul 15 14:52:12 o_O Jul 15 14:52:38 i changed to vw lupo Jul 15 14:53:16 plusminus_: europeans enjoy gas at just shy of $10 per gallon :) Jul 15 14:53:36 jasta: I hate unformatted text with code included Jul 15 14:53:40 its 9.80$ per gallon, not 10 Jul 15 14:53:41 a gallon is... Jul 15 14:53:54 3.78 Jul 15 14:53:55 alex2308: "just shy of" Jul 15 14:54:12 my fault sry Jul 15 14:54:49 that is USD 2,59 per litre o_O Jul 15 14:55:11 google calc can do all this math. Jul 15 14:55:42 it's about 1.50 eur per litre in usd per gallon Jul 15 14:56:22 more like 1.60... Jul 15 14:56:28 true Jul 15 14:56:36 I was always thinking that gas is really cheap in the US Jul 15 14:56:37 ... Jul 15 14:56:57 once again... Jul 15 14:56:57 well, that's true. :) Jul 15 14:56:58 life sucs Jul 15 14:57:02 its about 50% of the german prices Jul 15 14:57:02 sucks Jul 15 14:57:26 what always floors me is how people complain about the rising prices when it is obvious that they can only do that. Jul 15 14:57:46 wait... Jul 15 14:57:52 a limited fuel in high demand can do nothing but rise in cost. Jul 15 14:57:54 jasta: People are trying to deny what the real problem is... Jul 15 14:58:05 if 1 gallon == 3,78 litres cost 9,80 Jul 15 14:58:10 its not limited.. Jul 15 14:58:20 then 1 litre is 2,6 USD Jul 15 14:58:31 * DOLLAR2EURO Jul 15 14:58:31 it costs 4,60 usd Jul 15 14:58:55 1,62 €/l for american gas Jul 15 14:58:59 alex2308: in which sense? Gasoline as we use it now is very difficult to produce (such that it does not offset costs), and new sources are challenging to utilize. Jul 15 14:58:59 ... Jul 15 14:59:57 alex2308: and how would you explain the high prices then...? Jul 15 15:00:11 jasta, well... yes and no... high prices are a big incentive for people to go out there and do their damndest to find new sources of oil, and to utilize marginal sources that otherwise would not be profitable Jul 15 15:00:14 jasta: some people are reducing extraction to rise prices Jul 15 15:00:29 ultimately there's some sort of limit, but it's very, very hard to get good ideas about that Jul 15 15:00:32 plusminus_: http://www.californiagasprices.com/ Jul 15 15:00:42 gas is cheap in the US though Jul 15 15:00:47 davidw: that's just the economy talking. the high prices reflect the NECESSITY to do so. Jul 15 15:01:08 everyone knows gas prices are fake Jul 15 15:01:16 its just that everyone still pays Jul 15 15:01:18 i don't believe that for a second. Jul 15 15:01:31 'fake'? Jul 15 15:01:51 * davidw detects a faint odor of tinfoil... Jul 15 15:01:59 you know, there are ships standing in the bays, waiting for prices to rise (as they rise daily) before they drop, so there is no leak in gas, its a fake leak Jul 15 15:02:14 again, a limited supply in extremely high demand can only rise in price. until eventually it is no longer a commodity. Jul 15 15:02:40 as it should not be. Jul 15 15:03:21 Hopefully the result is that millions of people stop thinking that they need to drive a car to work every day and get on a fuckin bike or bus. Jul 15 15:03:22 no reason for it not to be Jul 15 15:03:34 i cant bike 50km a day Jul 15 15:03:38 just that the externalities should be included in the price Jul 15 15:03:53 alex2308: you can't? then you're really out of shape Jul 15 15:03:54 morrildl, compliments on the FOO camp thing, sounds like a lot of fun! Jul 15 15:03:54 alex2308: why not? :D Jul 15 15:04:07 50km is a nice ride Jul 15 15:04:15 its 50km one way Jul 15 15:04:15 50km is nothing Jul 15 15:04:35 so ride 100km per day Jul 15 15:04:45 Everyone has their excuse Jul 15 15:04:55 and waste 4 hours of my life daily Jul 15 15:05:03 Move closer Jul 15 15:05:07 Transportation is not sustainable Jul 15 15:05:08 riding a bicycle is *never* a waste of time:-) Jul 15 15:05:16 i dont even have a bike Jul 15 15:05:19 davidw: it was pretty wild Jul 15 15:05:22 nigga stole my bike *sing* Jul 15 15:06:04 * jasta lives 8 miles from work, and i'd like to shorten that distance Jul 15 15:06:10 Lets get in our cars and drive to work because there is _no other option_ Jul 15 15:06:17