**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 16 02:59:56 2008 Jul 16 03:38:54 * jasta fires up the emulator for the first time in a month Jul 16 03:42:08 wow Jul 16 03:42:25 trying to figure out why my app hangs on the HTC Vogue Jul 16 03:42:27 what's the occassion jasta? Jul 16 03:42:30 ah Jul 16 03:42:34 they got SD card support working Jul 16 03:42:38 nice Jul 16 03:42:42 so you can load data.img and system.img from the sd card for persistent storage Jul 16 03:42:48 but my app still hangs for some reason Jul 16 03:43:07 do the dev tools tell you anything? Jul 16 03:43:16 there aren't any: USB support still isn't working. Jul 16 03:43:21 .... Jul 16 03:43:36 isn't there an exception viewer on the emulator? Jul 16 03:43:40 the app hangs, not responding on the main UI thread. Jul 16 03:43:45 ah Jul 16 03:44:02 that would make it difficult Jul 16 03:44:48 i suspect the reason might be because of my possible misuse of registerDataSetObserver Jul 16 03:44:58 it's the only thing i can think of that i'm doing which none of the API demos are. Jul 16 03:45:37 does the emulator on your machine spit any warnings about it? Jul 16 03:45:39 ohh actually, a thought occurs Jul 16 03:45:39 dont get to excited Jul 16 03:45:44 wait for a nother sdk to drop Jul 16 03:45:56 now that there's persistent storage, i wonder if i can use Debug.startMethodTracing Jul 16 03:46:00 to figure out where it has hung Jul 16 03:47:01 the weird thing is that it completes one drawing pass, presenting the entire UI to the user Jul 16 03:47:06 but then hangs from there. Jul 16 03:47:22 so it shouldn't be anything to do with my layout or custom drawn widgets Jul 16 03:48:10 it might be unrelated to your code entirely Jul 16 03:48:21 of course, in fact, i assume that it is. Jul 16 03:48:22 it could be trying to access certain hardware aspects Jul 16 03:48:31 but my code is triggering something unusual. none of the ApiDemos have this problem. Jul 16 03:48:34 which then would be hard to track in the emulator Jul 16 03:48:59 do you use opengl? Jul 16 03:49:00 so i'm trying to reduce certain features i use to try to isolate it through trial and error and intelligent guessing Jul 16 03:49:10 no, but the OpenGL stuff seems to work fine on the Vogue Jul 16 03:49:30 it's just using the software renderer Jul 16 03:49:51 probably, yes. Jul 16 03:49:58 not probably :) Jul 16 03:50:20 i really think it is my use of registerDataSetObserver. Jul 16 03:50:50 romainguy___: how do you know for sure? all the Linux drivers are open sourced for the 3D acceleration on the reference board. Jul 16 03:51:11 If that code is similar enough to the 3D hardware in the Vogue, assuming there is any, then it could be reasonable for Martin to have adapted it. Jul 16 03:51:22 afterall, he adapted everything else, including the ril. Jul 16 03:51:26 because you don't have the library taht talks to OpenGL on our side... Jul 16 03:51:39 ahh. Jul 16 03:52:06 on another note, there is a surprising amount of driver code being committed to the public git tree. Jul 16 03:52:14 why surprising? :) Jul 16 03:52:28 I had assumed chipset manufacturers would prefer their drivers to be closed. Jul 16 03:52:43 it's not necessarily *their* drivers we commit Jul 16 03:53:02 Well I realize that it's Google's IP, but I'm surprised they'd permit you to do so. Jul 16 03:53:27 Given that they need not partner with you and give you all the necessary schematics to implement their hardware effectively. Jul 16 03:53:56 we have a very very very good system team ^^ Jul 16 03:54:09 i hope your kernel guy remembers what i said to him at i/o Jul 16 03:54:15 which was? Jul 16 03:54:29 fix the goddamn firewall and give userspace control of incoming connections to the radio stacks Jul 16 03:54:41 nicely put Jul 16 03:55:01 i'm sure he has a special way of remembering you :) Jul 16 03:55:02 since security is such a big issue Jul 16 03:55:06 i hope so Jul 16 03:55:11 (as it should be) Jul 16 03:55:27 security through walled gardens, no matter how green they are Jul 16 03:55:30 is not good Jul 16 03:55:47 but i ahve a feeling they'll have some xciting things in store Jul 16 03:58:30 romainguy___: if an application is hanging, and forced close by the user, onStop() will not be called, correct? Jul 16 03:59:34 Also, if Debug.stopMethodTracing() is not called following a Debug.startMethodTracing call, but the process dies as a result of that forced closure, will the file be in a reasonable state so that analysis is possible? Jul 16 04:01:15 jasta: it might not be Jul 16 04:01:21 because the traces, in M5, are made of two files Jul 16 04:01:30 and I think one of the files is written when tracing stops Jul 16 04:01:33 but I'm not certain Jul 16 04:01:38 you'll have to try :) Jul 16 05:37:44 mmm, maven is so nice :) Jul 16 05:38:10 but make sure you set the pom right ;) Jul 16 05:49:05 i'd basically forgotton how awesome all the Android dev tools are :) Jul 16 05:49:09 adb logcat, for example, is great :) Jul 16 05:54:17 yup, android has some best developer experience Jul 16 06:02:17 hmm weir,d some part of my code that never used to have problems is breaking Jul 16 06:02:22 and from looking at the source it makes no sense Jul 16 06:02:37 wht you changed? Jul 16 06:02:55 nothing, makes no sense Jul 16 06:03:00 what? Jul 16 06:03:04 i get a classcastexception when i treat apparently a TextView as a ViewSwitcher Jul 16 06:03:15 but according to the layout and the adapters usage, it is a ViewSwitcher :) Jul 16 06:03:42 hmm, so you changed something Jul 16 06:03:42 whatever, i'll figure it out later :) Jul 16 06:04:01 jasta: are you looking for developers to join your project? Jul 16 07:03:27 Is the production of the google phone planned, or is it allready available for purchase somewhere? Jul 16 07:04:02 yangvnc, didn't you get yours already? Jul 16 07:04:16 No, I am not developer Jul 16 07:05:07 yangvnc: there's no such thing as a google phone Jul 16 07:06:52 romainguy____: but http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4032446.ece Jul 16 07:07:26 yangvnc: I work on Android at Google, there's no Google phone Jul 16 07:07:41 what is shown there is just a prototype we use to develop on real hardware Jul 16 07:08:25 is the gphone planned for next year? Jul 16 07:08:36 there is no gphone Jul 16 07:08:47 ok Jul 16 07:08:54 handset manufacturers and carriers will create phones that run Android Jul 16 07:09:30 someone told me that androind was ported to openezx motorola phones Jul 16 07:11:39 davidw: so what exactly did you get? Jul 16 07:11:56 yangvnc, I'm just pulling your leg:-) Jul 16 07:14:51 yangvnc: there was a rumor that gphone is coming Jul 16 07:15:00 but that's only a rumor so far Jul 16 07:16:35 davidw: oh well, I couldn't know , I read that article and saw some kind of a phone on youtube. Jul 16 08:49:31 morning non-sdk dudez Jul 16 08:52:36 :) Jul 16 09:36:38 wtf: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-googles-android-platform-not-so-open-after-all.html Jul 16 09:36:41 it wasnt a secret? Jul 16 09:36:45 are these guys idiots? Jul 16 09:38:19 duey: Yes! Jul 16 09:45:39 Haha this articels make me laugh Jul 16 09:45:58 They have never said that the system will be open before shipping the first devices. Jul 16 09:46:31 From my point of view they dont know what to write about Android and release something like this. Jul 16 09:47:54 Android tabloids Jul 16 09:48:09 not to mention its completely wrong Jul 16 10:05:17 well, there is no such thing as bad press Jul 16 10:05:36 yup, the media just want some android news Jul 16 10:07:26 And now we come to the only point that is right in the article Jul 16 10:07:30 communication ... Jul 16 10:07:48 yeah i would agree, they have screwed the people who didn't win Jul 16 10:07:56 there were a lot of great apps that didnt win Jul 16 10:08:00 to just ignore them is lousy Jul 16 10:08:12 Even if romainguy_ says its is not possible communication is the one and only thing to avoid such articles. Jul 16 10:08:40 anyone knows why the sdk isnt public? Jul 16 10:08:42 or even just releasing sdk's Jul 16 10:08:46 lack of documentation? Jul 16 10:08:50 alex2308, so they don't need to do testing Jul 16 10:09:10 ic, but why not release it as alpha Jul 16 10:09:11 less stable Jul 16 10:09:19 alex2308, bad press maybe? Jul 16 10:09:24 hm, true Jul 16 10:10:51 Thats it but from my point of view it would be more intelligent to release often and avoid the whole rumors about the SDK. Jul 16 10:11:12 yeah Jul 16 10:15:59 But from my point of view the whole thing will change in a better direction after the first devices get released. And to bridge that gap they have to communicate no matter if there will be an open SDK (what I dont thin) or not. Jul 16 10:16:13 i agree anno^da Jul 16 10:16:24 Otherwise they will have to live with the bad press. Jul 16 10:16:26 not if they lose all the good developers first :) Jul 16 10:17:08 I just started playing around with Android.....and when I see they only provide new versions to the ADC finalist.....I'm just like "you gotta be kidding me" Jul 16 10:17:23 I dont think they will and even if the lose some developers they will get a lot of new ones after the handhelds are available and the source code of the core system is open. Jul 16 10:18:12 anno^da, yes thats true, but many of the developers are the best advocates for the platform Jul 16 10:18:24 if you piss them off, they will tell all there friends android sucks etcetc Jul 16 10:19:03 so why release new SDK's to only 50 people instead of thousands of people? Jul 16 10:19:13 TSchultz55, I don't know Jul 16 10:19:14 it's insanely stupid in my opinion Jul 16 10:19:18 Yeah I understand your point duey. Jul 16 10:19:37 I think its lousy Jul 16 10:19:49 For sure it would be better to release it to whole community. Jul 16 10:20:38 yeah Jul 16 10:20:39 I think it has to do that some of the OHA members required it and Google just accepts it Jul 16 10:21:30 Could you tell me something about the ADC II. Can all community members take part in the ADC2 or just the winners ? Jul 16 10:21:55 AFAIK all Jul 16 10:22:06 all if you are talking about the second competition Jul 16 10:22:06 I'd need a freaking updated SDK!!! Jul 16 10:22:19 only the winners can participate in the second round of the first competition Jul 16 10:22:39 stupid Jul 16 10:23:08 this is going to entice me to code for Android............how exactly? Jul 16 10:23:33 well there will be another competition later Jul 16 10:24:42 I think they dont offer the SDK because they dont have the capacities to update the whole documentation for the new SDK. Jul 16 10:25:34 lol i dont think they ever did update the docs Jul 16 10:26:08 Yeah but they offered them once. Jul 16 10:26:28 And a new SDK wouldnt help that much without documentation. Jul 16 10:27:36 id rather a new SDK anyway Jul 16 10:27:55 And what we do now is typical for the whole thing at the moment. Jul 16 10:28:06 We speculate and dont know anything. Jul 16 10:28:22 i may very well be wasting my time doing things right now that have already been resolved in newer releases Jul 16 10:28:41 True. Jul 16 10:28:53 currently trying to hack around some lower-level function of Android Jul 16 10:30:46 o well....gotta go worry about my ACTUAL job now :) Jul 16 10:30:47 see ya Jul 16 10:43:10 which lower-level functions of android? Jul 16 10:43:24 we are running crosscompiled c/c++ code outside the DVM Jul 16 10:43:29 how much lower can you go? Jul 16 13:20:29 alex2308: what are your plans with C Jul 16 13:29:23 porting some linux apps and having more access to the machine itself Jul 16 13:29:52 which linux apps did you have in mind? Jul 16 13:30:20 john the ripper hehehe Jul 16 13:31:50 what were your plans? Jul 16 13:36:16 just a proof of concept Jul 16 13:43:12 ic Jul 16 13:43:21 so youre working on a hack? Jul 16 13:57:30 anno^da: google confirmed (again) at the i/o conference that the platform will be released open source if thats what you are wondering Jul 16 14:00:45 i dont believe that Jul 16 14:17:09 nothing to do about it Jul 16 14:18:17 i dont see a reason not to believe it, they stated it several times, and its basically the biggest threat to the other solutions. without opensource android will just vanish and they know that Jul 16 14:19:32 many parts of the gsm network arent public, so i guess youll get a plattform, everything on it is open, some parts underneath it arent Jul 16 14:20:35 what parts? Jul 16 14:21:27 i mean, i thought openmoko is fully open Jul 16 14:21:52 the module firmware isnt Jul 16 14:22:05 i thought even microchip firmware will be open on android Jul 16 14:22:50 how should it? thats dependant on the manufacturer, aka htc, etc. Jul 16 14:22:57 thats nothing to do with google! Jul 16 14:23:13 htc is part of the OHA Jul 16 14:23:25 and htc doesnt have much software Jul 16 14:23:28 well, take a munfacturer not in the oha Jul 16 14:23:38 also htc doesnt build the microchip Jul 16 14:24:29 what do you think is this about http://wiki.thc.org/gsm Jul 16 14:47:53 alex2308: i doubt very much microchip firmware will be open Jul 16 14:49:23 the question was if the platform is open, and android is a softwareplatform and hardware independent. it has nothing to do with firmware per se. Jul 16 14:50:52 there will very likely be phones where some hardwareparts are not open but that is another matter Jul 16 14:50:55 imho Jul 16 14:53:45 yes Jul 16 14:53:54 i was speaking from a firmware.... unrelated to google Jul 16 14:54:12 i am not sure how carriers would like open hardware Jul 16 15:58:39 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=619 Jul 16 16:00:00 copy my name... Jul 16 16:14:44 i think that's so stupid some guy is writing an Android book Jul 16 16:15:00 damn thing isnt even stable yet Jul 16 16:15:06 lol Jul 16 16:15:21 i mean, *ITS* not even stable yet, let alone the API :) Jul 16 16:15:44 you can at least get the fundamentals right Jul 16 16:16:05 everything about intents, services, UI, etc. remains the same Jul 16 16:16:15 but yeah, that's a lot of work to adapt the book to new versions Jul 16 16:16:21 yes, but that broad overview is covered well in the documentation Jul 16 16:16:28 writing a book is already tedious enough as it is Jul 16 16:16:51 it'll be on its third edition before anyone can even use it as a tool :) Jul 16 16:24:00 beta books...seems unprofessional Jul 16 16:24:17 beta books? Jul 16 16:24:26 you means books about beta software? Jul 16 16:24:29 or books in beta? Jul 16 16:24:48 selling books in beta Jul 16 16:25:09 it's actually not a bad idea if the sale gives you access to the final version Jul 16 16:25:23 yeah, I guess you get updates Jul 16 16:25:26 but if you have to pay for both... Jul 16 16:27:52 It's apparently quite the trend in tech books Jul 16 16:27:58 I guess O'Reilly has something similar? Jul 16 16:46:47 yea, its kinda early for an android book Jul 16 16:54:23 jasta: you seen that they got SD card write support now on those HTC's? Jul 16 16:54:33 so you can store contacts, etc Jul 16 16:58:47 O RLY Jul 16 16:59:44 http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/ Jul 16 17:10:18 It occurs to me that there are probably coworkers starting here who have never seen or used a rotary-dial phone Jul 16 17:10:29 and, for that matter, on this channel Jul 16 17:15:30 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/Google-frustriert-Android-Entwickler--/meldung/112912 Jul 16 17:16:16 in english: "Google frustrates Android developers" Jul 16 17:20:19 morrildl: I remember those fondly :) Jul 16 17:22:55 tk tk tk tk tktktktk Jul 16 17:23:14 It was a strangely satisfying way to dial. Jul 16 17:28:36 morrildl, I recall reading in the paper about the last central phone system (where you pick up and ask the operator for Martha or Fred or Edna or whoever) in the US being phased out in the late 80ies Jul 16 17:28:41 it was in Idaho somewhere Jul 16 17:29:45 davidw: sounds about right Jul 16 17:35:56 http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900712&slug=1081812 Jul 16 17:37:32 davidw: awesome :) Jul 16 17:41:19 morrildl: first of all, how old are you that you have used a rotary phone? Jul 16 17:41:37 second, i have seen one of those rotary phones hacked with a cellular radio inside Jul 16 17:41:45 that was pretty neat :) Jul 16 17:41:50 jasta: yeah that's what I was afraid of Jul 16 17:41:59 it's not so much how old I am as it is where I've lived ;) Jul 16 17:42:49 well you said it like you had a nostalgic reaction to the thought of one. i find that highly unlikely that for any significant part of your life you had used a rotary phone for any other purpose than to be retro. Jul 16 17:43:04 i still have a rotary phone Jul 16 17:43:21 as i said, for any other purpose than to be retro :) Jul 16 17:43:27 :) Jul 16 17:43:44 I thought those didn't work on non-pulse-based networks. Jul 16 17:43:47 it still works too, its pretty old Jul 16 17:44:35 morrildl: how does adb logcat actually work? where is the log stored, and how could you access it from within the device itself (and not via adb)? Jul 16 17:45:04 lol jasta, wanting a logfile? ;) Jul 16 17:45:33 AttractiveApe: i hacked together some stuff for you to try today, but i still have to work out some kinks :) Jul 16 17:45:36 but yeah, i do :) Jul 16 17:45:46 i also thought of another strategy using Debug.startMethodTracing in case it still fails Jul 16 17:45:56 okay =) Jul 16 17:45:59 but really, hacking together a simple apk that can view the log would be the best :) Jul 16 17:46:44 mmm, is the log stored in a text file, or in a sqlite db? Jul 16 17:46:52 I can probably pull it off of the filesystem Jul 16 17:47:00 i dont know where it is stored; i don't even know that it's stored. Jul 16 17:47:11 it might just be a circular log in memory Jul 16 17:48:13 oh, nice. Jul 16 17:48:19 there's a /system/bin/logcat Jul 16 17:48:28 that is all adb logcat does Jul 16 17:48:34 probably Jul 16 17:48:37 i'll hack up a quick apk that just lets you interact with that Jul 16 17:48:42 is it a shell script or an app? Jul 16 17:49:07 it's an ELF binary Jul 16 17:49:46 its either opening a stream and reading it or reading from a file Jul 16 17:50:15 not necessarily, as i said it might be a circular buffer in memory (in kernel space) Jul 16 17:50:40 wouldn't it just make sense to read stderr Jul 16 17:50:50 or some other variation Jul 16 17:50:51 what? Jul 16 17:51:00 i don't intend to figure out how it works, i don't care Jul 16 17:51:12 i'm just going to use it and pipe its output into an android application so that i can explore it from wtihin the device Jul 16 17:52:40 well, that is all good, but it has to be running Jul 16 17:52:48 does it have backlog? Jul 16 17:52:58 if your app hangs the UI how can you open it? Jul 16 17:53:18 i'll write a second app obviously Jul 16 17:53:21 one to just view the log Jul 16 17:53:53 and yes, there is backlog. adb logcat must just be adb shell /system/bin/logcat Jul 16 17:57:30 AttractiveApe: this is clearly the smarter way to go here :) Jul 16 18:07:27 i'm hoping there's some magic in there that will tell us what's going on Jul 16 18:07:30 without needing to interactively debug Jul 16 18:07:32 found logs Jul 16 18:07:38 yeah? Jul 16 18:07:41 yep Jul 16 18:07:53 where? Jul 16 18:08:18 in dev/logs/main Jul 16 18:08:42 lol, i told you :) Jul 16 18:08:50 app output goes there Jul 16 18:09:13 i was running some of the api demos and i see my calls to the services there Jul 16 18:09:32 i'd prefer not to mess with that, the logcat binary neatly tidies up for me Jul 16 18:14:37 cool, I'm getting busy at work Jul 16 18:14:41 let me know when you need me :) Jul 16 18:14:57 I'm about to shoot you an e-mail with a version to try. Jul 16 18:15:01 If this fails, I'll work on the logcat apk Jul 16 18:15:40 jasta: just so you know, that won't work on 1.0 Jul 16 18:15:59 the file will be readable only by root, and no .apks will run as root Jul 16 18:16:17 Why would that matter? Once 1.0 comes out I doubt I'll be using a hacked HTC Vogue Jul 16 18:16:34 probably not :) Jul 16 18:16:55 as long as it's just an intermediate thing Jul 16 18:17:09 wouldn't want you to spend lots of time writing code that won't work on 1.0 Jul 16 18:17:43 isn't that what i've done all along? :) Jul 16 18:17:56 oh snap. Jul 16 18:18:07 lol Jul 16 18:18:21 ;) Jul 16 18:18:27 heh Jul 16 18:18:44 * jasta raises an eyebrow Jul 16 18:18:45 heat? Jul 16 18:18:51 :-] Jul 16 18:19:03 <-- alive Jul 16 18:19:04 haha Jul 16 18:19:06 apparently :) Jul 16 18:19:12 what have you been up to? Jul 16 18:19:33 I just need FiveMusic, right jasta? It'll be compatible with my previous sync? Jul 16 18:19:33 work mostly.. Jul 16 18:19:40 getting married in oct :) Jul 16 18:19:42 AttractiveApe: yeah, i just sent them both for symmetry. Jul 16 18:20:03 heat: that's exciting, how old are you? Jul 16 18:20:07 28 :( Jul 16 18:20:13 hehe, old :) Jul 16 18:20:20 heat: do you remember malverian? Jul 16 18:20:22 heh, yeah not 18 like you :/ Jul 16 18:20:27 yeah.. what's he up to? Jul 16 18:20:31 you know i age too, i'm not immortal. Jul 16 18:20:36 i'm 25 now Jul 16 18:20:40 lol, kids :) Jul 16 18:20:54 malverian works at Google, i met up with him when i was at Google I/O a couple of months ago Jul 16 18:21:01 he's pretty wild man :) Jul 16 18:21:05 oh, neat.. Jul 16 18:21:10 went out drinkin' with him, it was a good time Jul 16 18:21:27 should have given me a hollar if you were in mountain view :) Jul 16 18:21:37 i didn't know you lived there. Jul 16 18:21:47 i didn't know malverian lived there until just a few weeks before i left even Jul 16 18:21:47 i live in sf, work in mv Jul 16 18:21:54 ah.. Jul 16 18:21:55 what do you do? Jul 16 18:22:20 work at the googs Jul 16 18:22:32 lol, of course ;) Jul 16 18:22:35 :) Jul 16 18:22:39 where else? :) Jul 16 18:22:45 right hehe Jul 16 18:23:11 do you work on the Android team or near it? Jul 16 18:23:55 i'm just a party of interest.. :) I'm trying to convince myself to not buy an iphone 3g :/ Jul 16 18:24:11 I like how I got the email that a new version of the android sdk was released... Jul 16 18:24:19 not to the general public, and not to me, but just that it was released. Jul 16 18:25:04 heat: you'll get locked in to the contract ;) Jul 16 18:25:16 Kraln they are teasing you Jul 16 18:25:57 we're not teasing anybody Jul 16 18:25:59 yeah, that's the prob :( Jul 16 18:26:14 David explained what happened on the mailing list :) Jul 16 18:26:19 jasta: so, when you gonna port openft? ;) Jul 16 18:26:20 j/k Jul 16 18:26:40 lol, well, my project is currently on the up-and-up but you know me ;) Jul 16 18:27:51 heat: *privmsg* ;) Jul 16 18:28:07 morrildl: fyi, you cannot read that file in an application now... ( the log that is ) Jul 16 18:30:02 shit. I overwrote the data.img file that contained the five sync stuff. Jul 16 18:30:05 craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap. Jul 16 18:31:12 wow Jul 16 18:31:22 this one is syncing way faster, same version of five-client Jul 16 18:31:25 odd. Jul 16 18:32:32 AttractiveApe: it was clearly a data connection issue before Jul 16 18:32:36 the app itself wasnt do anything Jul 16 18:32:43 doing* Jul 16 18:33:39 yeah guess so Jul 16 18:33:48 I'm sitting in exactly the same spot as before though :P Jul 16 18:34:06 Oh wow, fivemusic is working Jul 16 18:34:30 Nevermind, it rendered the artists Jul 16 18:34:39 and fingerscrolling worked, but selecting a group didn't Jul 16 18:34:41 froze. Jul 16 18:52:12 AttractiveApe: damn. i'll get the logcat apk built and then we can try to debug Jul 16 19:10:08 okies. Jul 16 19:38:35 anyone write an ssh client for android yet? Jul 16 19:40:39 michaelnovakjr: http://code.google.com/p/connectbot/ ? Jul 16 20:00:09 jasta, around? Jul 16 20:01:16 yeah? Jul 16 20:01:47 does five support flac? Jul 16 20:05:29 not yet, but i plan to Jul 16 20:05:32 it's a simple feature to add. Jul 16 20:05:36 cool Jul 16 20:05:38 the server will just transcode on the fly Jul 16 20:07:59 nice Jul 16 20:14:52 how's that logcat apk coming jasta? Jul 16 20:17:16 open settop box platform? http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/20/the-google-set-top-box-think-android-for-tv/ Jul 16 20:22:39 michaelnovakjr: didn't start it yet; working. Jul 16 20:22:41 i will today tho Jul 16 22:30:06 morrildl: is logcat circular? ie, does it eventually drop off old log lines? Jul 16 22:30:30 it does Jul 16 22:30:35 jasta: yes Jul 16 22:30:49 ok, that makes a logcat apk tricky to maintain state :) Jul 16 22:31:02 i might just do it unidiff style unless someone has a better suggestion? Jul 16 22:34:49 i used a rotary dial phone when i was a kid Jul 16 22:34:53 i think Jul 16 22:35:09 maybe my grandparents had one Jul 16 22:36:39 I have a feeling the non-sequitors this channel topic are going to create will be priceless Jul 16 22:38:10 Dialing 9's on rotary phones is really annoying. Jul 16 22:39:20 I've used them a handful of times back in the day >> poll Jul 16 22:40:05 Pressing 1 for English is even harder. Jul 16 22:40:12 lol Jul 16 22:43:57 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080715-googles-android-platform-not-so-open-after-all.html Jul 16 22:44:04 see that bs in this article Jul 16 22:44:53