**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 02:59:57 2008
Aug 05 03:09:38 <michaelnovakjr_> jasta ping
Aug 05 03:24:57 <michaelnovakjr__> quiet tonight
Aug 05 03:45:34 <yakischloba> heh
Aug 05 03:46:07 <yakischloba> i spent all afternoon writing a bunch of shit for the job im applying for, so I'm still at work wrapping up.
Aug 05 03:46:17 <yakischloba> I'll probably be home asking dumb questions again soon ;)
Aug 05 03:46:59 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 05 03:49:20 <yakischloba> interview on thursday
Aug 05 03:49:37 <yakischloba> so excited to get out of here. I can't stand it anymore :/
Aug 05 03:52:36 <yakischloba> where is jasta anyway
Aug 05 03:52:38 <yakischloba> this is unusual
Aug 05 03:53:05 <michaelnovakjr__> not sure... havent seen him in a bit
Aug 05 03:54:19 <yakischloba> ok time to go home. be back soon.
Aug 05 04:23:34 <michaelnovakjr__> back huh?
Aug 05 04:23:43 <michaelnovakjr__> didn't miss much
Aug 05 04:24:03 <yakischloba> didnt' figure I would
Aug 05 04:24:33 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 05 04:24:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm wrapping up the sms app finally
Aug 05 04:27:05 <yakischloba> nice
Aug 05 04:28:09 <michaelnovakjr__> putting together the wiki page, i'll probably post the download tomorrow afternoon
Aug 05 04:29:11 <yakischloba> well I got whatever I was working on all fucked up before I went to bed last night, so its time to straighten that out.
Aug 05 04:29:24 <michaelnovakjr__> what were you working on?
Aug 05 04:29:53 <yakischloba> just redesigning a bunch of parts of my app after discussing some lifecycle stuff with jasta
Aug 05 04:30:01 <michaelnovakjr__> cool
Aug 05 04:30:15 <yakischloba> but I slipped up somewhere and I was really tired..had to call it quits before I fixed it
Aug 05 04:30:38 <michaelnovakjr__> it happens
Aug 05 04:30:52 <michaelnovakjr__> i had a nullpointer the other night that was clearly an overtired mistake
Aug 05 04:31:03 <jasta> yawn
Aug 05 04:31:09 <michaelnovakjr__> howdy
Aug 05 04:31:09 <jasta> pong ;)
Aug 05 04:31:10 <yakischloba> there he is.
Aug 05 04:31:20 <jasta> my gf unexpectedly came over today
Aug 05 04:31:33 <jasta> so i played tennis instead of going to the sprint store :)
Aug 05 04:31:38 <yakischloba> i was guessing that was the case
Aug 05 04:31:40 <yakischloba> ah jeez
Aug 05 04:31:43 <michaelnovakjr__> haha fun :)
Aug 05 04:31:44 <yakischloba> you could have convinced her to swing by ;)
Aug 05 04:31:52 <jasta> no, i could not have :)
Aug 05 04:31:55 <yakischloba> haha
Aug 05 04:34:59 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, added the focus to the message boxes when replying or coming from the contacts.
Aug 05 04:40:53 <yakischloba> hmm. at least i'm getting faster at finding my retarded mistakes.
Aug 05 04:48:33 <michaelnovakjr__> screenshots of Messages: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages
Aug 05 04:49:02 <yakischloba> nice
Aug 05 04:49:05 <yakischloba> looks good
Aug 05 04:49:18 <michaelnovakjr__> thanks
Aug 05 05:01:14 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm out, enjoy the evening
Aug 05 05:01:47 <yakischloba> good night
Aug 05 05:25:30 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: i think you should invert the order of messages in a conversation
Aug 05 05:25:33 <jasta> should show newest at the bottom
Aug 05 05:25:38 <jasta> also, you should timestamp.
Aug 05 05:25:45 <jasta> use the right hand side for that or something
Aug 05 05:29:03 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: also, you should add a way to pick a contact in the craete new message activity
Aug 05 05:29:09 <jasta> as in, more than just the autocmplete
Aug 05 05:31:31 <jasta> hey folks: http://www.clubgphone.com/2008/08/04/htcs-android-phones-still-on-track-for-q4-2008/
Aug 05 05:32:05 <Darkeye11547> Oh man, I can't wait.
Aug 05 05:32:51 <jasta> (that post actually indicates that *WE* might not see android devices in Q4)
Aug 05 06:23:19 <jerkface03> poo
Aug 05 06:23:22 <jerkface03> i gotta start work tmrw :(
Aug 05 06:23:28 <jerkface03> no more being a bum
Aug 05 06:25:57 <muthu> one more day..
Aug 05 07:05:06 <alex2308> morning
Aug 05 07:53:38 <chomchom> michaelnovakjr__: yeah I agree with jasta. Your messaging looks really cool but I'd invert the ordering.
Aug 05 09:01:24 <alex2308> http://englishrussia.com/?p=2008
Aug 05 09:04:49 <Darkeye11547> ...
Aug 05 09:04:57 <Darkeye11547> That's hillarious.
Aug 05 09:07:20 <alex2308> its awesome
Aug 05 10:00:18 <anno^da_> Could someone tell me with which XML parser included in Android I am able to parse a XML document that sits in a simple String
Aug 05 10:00:52 <anno^da_> every parser I found needs InputStreams or othe things like that and I cant manage it get my String into the DOM parser or SAX parser
Aug 05 10:01:07 <anno^da_> the xml consists just of two elements
Aug 05 10:05:28 <anno^da_> got iz
Aug 05 10:05:30 <anno^da_> it
Aug 05 10:08:52 <tric> hmm, is there any way to access the current context from a class which is neither an activity nor view nor anything else?
Aug 05 10:09:11 <tric> something like Application.getContext()? ;)
Aug 05 10:09:33 <anno^da_> Why dont you submit him the context in the constructor ?
Aug 05 10:09:38 <anno^da_> in the parameter set
Aug 05 10:10:00 <anno^da_> myClass(Context cont)()
Aug 05 10:10:21 <anno^da_> then you should be able to use it
Aug 05 10:11:10 <tric> yes, thats what im currently doing, but i dont like it.
Aug 05 10:18:32 <tric> this should be accessible in a static way imho. you need it to access R.string.*, or i have to add an adaptor to R.*, which would be kinda stupid.
Aug 05 12:12:39 <rainabba> At current, is there a way to insert pauses when using the dialer? I have a Vouge and can't bring up the dialpad when calling voicemail so I need to include the pin when I dial.
Aug 05 12:13:24 <rainabba> I see in android.telephony.PhoneNumberUtils that PAUSE is defined as int 44
Aug 05 12:13:59 <rainabba> I don't see how I'd enter it using the dialer.
Aug 05 12:16:14 <rainabba> Ahh well. Sleep time. If anyone knows and would be kind enough to pm me, I'd appriciate it. Take care.
Aug 05 13:28:12 <michaelnovakjr> howdy
Aug 05 14:58:49 <michaelnovakjr> howdy AttractiveApe
Aug 05 14:59:06 <AttractiveApe> mornin' michaelnovakjr
Aug 05 14:59:11 <AttractiveApe> Have a good weekend?
Aug 05 14:59:19 <michaelnovakjr> not too bad, how about you?
Aug 05 14:59:23 <AttractiveApe> was excellent
Aug 05 14:59:38 <AttractiveApe> yesterday was a stat holiday, so was wonderful :P
Aug 05 14:59:46 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Aug 05 15:00:15 <michaelnovakjr> check this out: http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages
Aug 05 15:00:24 <michaelnovakjr> some early screenshots of the sms app
Aug 05 15:00:37 <michaelnovakjr> making a few modifications and then its ready to be used
Aug 05 15:02:50 <AttractiveApe> looks nice :)
Aug 05 15:02:53 <AttractiveApe> When do I get to use it?
Aug 05 15:03:06 <AttractiveApe> I played with Glance on the weekend, was great :)
Aug 05 15:03:15 <michaelnovakjr> thanks
Aug 05 15:03:24 <michaelnovakjr> i'll mostly likely have it up in a few hours
Aug 05 15:04:33 <michaelnovakjr> you can send an sms through the contacts and dialer apps too
Aug 05 15:11:11 <AttractiveApe> cool, looking forward to it :)
Aug 05 15:13:18 <zhobbs_> michaelnovakjr: nice!
Aug 05 15:13:28 <michaelnovakjr> thanks
Aug 05 15:13:49 <michaelnovakjr> putting a few finishing touches on it
Aug 05 15:27:04 <jasta> yawn
Aug 05 15:27:23 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i like seeing the intent system come together and actually work neatly
Aug 05 15:27:33 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Aug 05 15:27:44 <michaelnovakjr> i'm working on using the intent system to pull the contact picker
Aug 05 15:28:02 <jasta> excellent
Aug 05 15:28:13 <michaelnovakjr> how can i get the focus of a list view to the bottom?
Aug 05 15:28:19 <ligi> anyone knows whats happened to the ADCI Galery - Delayed or Canceled ?
Aug 05 15:29:12 <michaelnovakjr> i was searching for a way to pull it down to the bottom of the list view...
Aug 05 15:29:58 <jasta> nah, that would be weird i think
Aug 05 15:30:12 <jasta> ligi: or perhaps it was just a lie? :)
Aug 05 15:30:51 <ligi> jasta: ^^
Aug 05 15:33:53 <zhobbs_> ligi: what gallery?
Aug 05 15:36:21 <ligi> zhobbs_: google anounced that there will be a galery of ADC I Participants which want to be in souch an galery
Aug 05 15:36:24 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, any idea on how get the bottom of the list view to display by default?
Aug 05 15:38:11 <ligi> zhobbs_: from the ADC I loosers email: "2. In the near future, we\u2019ll be creating an Android Developer Challenge Gallery where you can showcase your application. We\u2019ll be providing more details shortly on how you can participate in this gallery."
Aug 05 15:38:59 <michaelnovakjr> ligi, nothing more has been said about it
Aug 05 15:39:48 <ligi> michaelnovakjr: i noticed - but i dont know if it is canceled or just delayed
Aug 05 15:39:53 <ligi> both is very possible
Aug 05 15:41:28 <tethridge> A loser gallery, where do I sign up?
Aug 05 15:41:40 <zhobbs_> helloandroid.com/apps
Aug 05 15:42:03 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 15:42:26 <zhobbs_> I got a couple emails asking if helloandroid.com was dead
Aug 05 15:42:41 <muthu> haha
Aug 05 15:42:45 <zhobbs_> it's alive, I'm just brain dead from ADC
Aug 05 15:42:47 <muthu> is HA dead?
Aug 05 15:43:08 <zhobbs_> nah, I'll try to get it going again
Aug 05 15:43:09 <tethridge> is ADC over now?
Aug 05 15:43:13 <jasta> i must say signing the NDA has been an improvement for muthu
Aug 05 15:43:22 <muthu> werd
Aug 05 15:43:23 <zhobbs_> work on some more tutorials and news...the nda is a pain though
Aug 05 15:43:33 <zhobbs_> tethridge: yeah, in a couple hours
Aug 05 15:43:35 <jasta> now he isn't even allowed to speculate wildly.
Aug 05 15:43:44 <muthu> lol
Aug 05 15:43:57 <muthu> waiting for the public release.. so we can all be set free
Aug 05 15:43:59 <zhobbs_> yeah, it's hard for me to post news because I'm NDA'd out in every direction
Aug 05 15:44:03 <michaelnovakjr> haha thank god!
Aug 05 15:44:04 <tethridge> so muthu signed the NDA?
Aug 05 15:44:13 <muthu> all team members sign
Aug 05 15:44:17 <tethridge> ah
Aug 05 15:44:19 <michaelnovakjr> muthu you should sign an NDA for the public one too :)
Aug 05 15:44:25 <jasta> hehe ;)
Aug 05 15:44:28 <zhobbs_> lol
Aug 05 15:44:40 <ligi> NDA's suxx
Aug 05 15:44:49 <jasta> normally yes, but not in muthu's case :)
Aug 05 15:44:59 <ligi> ;-)
Aug 05 15:45:07 <muthu> :))
Aug 05 15:45:14 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 15:45:23 <muthu> android is the best mobile development platform
Aug 05 15:45:56 <tethridge> the best one that you can't use on real hardware...
Aug 05 15:46:26 <tethridge> wait, android is the only platform that has no hardware available with it on there for the public.  :-(
Aug 05 15:46:54 <jasta> quite true, there's even the Neo Freerunner now ;0
Aug 05 15:47:11 <muthu> hope the devices come out soon
Aug 05 15:47:37 <jasta> there is renewed doubt that the consumer market will see them by Q4 2008
Aug 05 15:47:50 <muthu> is there a delay news anywhere?
Aug 05 15:47:57 <jasta> in a sense...
Aug 05 15:48:00 <muthu> Q4 has been the target for a while..
Aug 05 15:48:04 <jasta> http://gizmodo.com/5032966/htcs-android-phones-still-on-track-for-q4-2008
Aug 05 15:48:10 <jasta> read more than just the headline.
Aug 05 15:48:18 <muthu> reading..
Aug 05 15:49:16 <jasta> i hadn't thought about that particular nuance of the industry.
Aug 05 15:49:21 <tethridge> I'm only waiting until February, then I'm going to be an iPhone owner.
Aug 05 15:49:47 <muthu> by feb, adc2 will start
Aug 05 15:50:01 <muthu> jasta: can't wait to see your app for adc2
Aug 05 15:50:03 <michaelnovakjr> muthu ...
Aug 05 15:50:08 <michaelnovakjr> again with the speculating
Aug 05 15:50:09 <jasta> the NDA isn't perfect, unfortunately.  it still lets him spew nonsense about the ADC2.
Aug 05 15:50:15 <muthu> lol
Aug 05 15:50:25 <muthu> this channel is going to come back alive ;)
Aug 05 15:50:29 <jasta> but i guess we can't be too picky.
Aug 05 15:50:47 <jasta> muthu: why do you assume my app will be part of adc2?
Aug 05 15:50:50 <michaelnovakjr> muthu, you are too touchy feely for me
Aug 05 15:51:03 <muthu> jasta: you can't stay away from android
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 05 16:02:02 2008
Aug 05 16:04:12 <michaelnovakjr> muthu, that method doesn't exist
Aug 05 16:04:24 <muthu> michaelnovakjr: something like that
Aug 05 16:06:46 <jasta> whoa, i was on the wrong side of that netsplit :)
Aug 05 16:07:15 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 16:07:46 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, how can i get focus to the bottom of the list view?
Aug 05 16:08:45 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: set the last item to be the selected one
Aug 05 16:13:36 <michaelnovakjr> got it :)
Aug 05 16:13:51 <michaelnovakjr> stupid easy things :)
Aug 05 16:15:18 <yakischloba> waiting for common sense boot up again?
Aug 05 16:15:34 <yakischloba> :)
Aug 05 16:18:49 <michaelnovakjr> unfortunately yes yakischloba :)
Aug 05 16:18:55 <muthu> why isn't there a ListView#displayLastItem() to make it easier
Aug 05 16:19:04 <michaelnovakjr> because it is easy :)
Aug 05 16:19:10 <romainguy__> why would there be such a method?
Aug 05 16:19:12 <michaelnovakjr> setSelection( position )
Aug 05 16:19:34 <michaelnovakjr> setSelection( listAdapter.count );
Aug 05 16:19:43 <muthu> setting last item seems to be like a common use case
Aug 05 16:19:44 <romainguy__> count - 1 michaelnovakjr :)
Aug 05 16:19:49 <michaelnovakjr> :) yes...
Aug 05 16:19:56 <romainguy__> muthu: I really don't see how it's a **common** use case
Aug 05 16:19:58 <michaelnovakjr> still i type it wrong when its right in my code :)
Aug 05 16:20:09 <michaelnovakjr> its really not...
Aug 05 16:20:13 <muthu> romainguy_: its common, when you add items to a list
Aug 05 16:20:20 <michaelnovakjr> ?
Aug 05 16:20:31 <jasta> romainguy__: is the engineering team even bothering with the issue list any more?
Aug 05 16:20:40 <romainguy__> jasta: yes why?
Aug 05 16:21:25 <jasta> Just curious if it was a waste of time to post something there.  I'd like to post my HttpClient example and ask that some engineer confirms the bug is indeed gone from the latest builds.  Or at least, confirm it's gone from whatever will be final.
Aug 05 16:21:58 <romainguy__> I doubt anybody will have time just to confirm that a bug is gone
Aug 05 16:21:59 <f00f-> jasta: are you sure it's not an isue for the Apache HttpComponents people?
Aug 05 16:22:32 <jasta> It is.  But romain claims many patches both by Google and upstream have been provided.
Aug 05 16:22:39 <jasta> And also, a new upstream version exists.
Aug 05 16:23:03 <jasta> I could not discover the source of the bug by decompiling Android's included code, so I'd like confirmation directly that the bug is gone.
Aug 05 16:23:21 <jasta> romainguy__: So then it is pointless to post bugs?
Aug 05 16:23:31 <romainguy__> no
Aug 05 16:23:31 <romainguy__> you can post bugs if you need a fix
Aug 05 16:23:48 <jasta> Well I do need a fix in M5.  I have no idea if that fix is in the current build.
Aug 05 16:23:56 <jasta> how could I?
Aug 05 16:26:17 <jasta> How could anyone posting a bug know if it's been fixed in a newer version or not?  Any bug post would require an Android developer to either fix the bug, or confirm that it was already fixed.
Aug 05 16:26:40 <jasta> So, it's either pointless to post bugs, or somebody must have time to look at them.  Right?
Aug 05 16:28:27 <muthu> any news on public sdk?
Aug 05 16:28:34 <romainguy__> muthu: non
Aug 05 16:28:35 <romainguy__> none
Aug 05 16:28:45 <muthu> too bad
Aug 05 16:29:02 <jasta> Uhm?
Aug 05 16:29:04 <muthu> now that i don't have anything to do ;)
Aug 05 16:29:08 <f00f-> hahah
Aug 05 16:29:11 <f00f-> done already eh
Aug 05 16:29:20 <muthu> yup
Aug 05 16:29:56 <michaelnovakjr> muthu, let's not start speculating :)
Aug 05 16:30:44 <jasta> romainguy__: You're not filling me with confidence here...
Aug 05 16:31:01 <romainguy__> jasta: what are you talking about?
Aug 05 16:31:37 <jasta> I need to confirm that this issue is gone in the latest builds.  If it isn't, then someone needs to fix the bug.
Aug 05 16:31:43 <romainguy__> then file your bug
Aug 05 16:31:46 <jasta> I did all I can do with the version I have, and no access to source code.
Aug 05 16:32:00 <jasta> romainguy__: So engineers are looking at them, for sure?
Aug 05 16:32:14 <romainguy__> engineers are looking at the bugs
Aug 05 16:32:22 <romainguy__> but I cannot promise you yours will be looked at
Aug 05 16:32:34 <romainguy__> or that if it is looked at that someone will take the time to test your code against a newer build
Aug 05 16:32:51 <romainguy__> especially if you describe your bug like you did to me
Aug 05 16:33:01 <jasta> How did I describe it to you?
Aug 05 16:33:20 <romainguy__> just file your bug
Aug 05 16:34:34 <romainguy__> f00f-: did you submit your app btw?
Aug 05 16:34:55 <f00f-> we're doing a final submnit in a few minutes
Aug 05 16:35:02 <romainguy__> :)
Aug 05 16:35:09 <f00f-> just doing doc fixes :)
Aug 05 16:35:17 <muthu> how many mins left?
Aug 05 16:35:23 <f00f-> 24
Aug 05 16:37:08 <yakischloba> down to the wire eh
Aug 05 16:38:12 <jasta> i thought you guys had to the 8th?
Aug 05 16:38:30 <f00f-> funny, so did one of our teammates
Aug 05 16:38:51 <jasta> is it due today?
Aug 05 16:39:31 <jasta> it's incredible how high your odds are of winning.
Aug 05 16:40:47 <yakischloba> what is f00f-'s app?
Aug 05 16:41:00 <yakischloba> i've forgotten
Aug 05 16:41:09 <f00f-> i think jasta meant you as in 'the 50'
Aug 05 16:41:12 <f00f-> yakischloba: PedNav
Aug 05 16:41:15 <yakischloba> ohh yeah
Aug 05 16:47:56 <yakischloba> Have the majority of the '50' been working on their project full time?
Aug 05 16:49:15 <romainguy_> re
Aug 05 16:49:26 <f00f-> it feels like full-time
Aug 05 16:49:46 <yakischloba> Do you all have day jobs too?
Aug 05 16:50:09 <f00f-> most of us do
Aug 05 16:50:34 <yakischloba> so you have been busy eh
Aug 05 16:51:07 <f00f-> .. let's just say in another 9 minutes i'll be relieved :D
Aug 05 16:51:11 <yakischloba> hah
Aug 05 16:51:23 <f00f-> still need to do another build with new icon
Aug 05 16:51:33 <yakischloba> better hurry.
Aug 05 16:51:41 <f00f-> i have my guy in photoshop as we speak.
Aug 05 16:51:53 <yakischloba> hah
Aug 05 17:00:58 <f00f-> all done.
Aug 05 17:01:00 <f00f-> whew
Aug 05 17:01:05 <f00f-> ^_^
Aug 05 17:01:05 <f00f-> &
Aug 05 17:11:04 <jasta> f00f-: so it is due today?
Aug 05 17:11:42 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, yep :)
Aug 05 17:11:51 <jasta> are you concerned by the way that the judges will be comparing your app against Google Maps (now with public transit info from the very same database you use)?
Aug 05 17:12:06 <jasta> or is it actually dissimilar?
Aug 05 17:18:51 <jasta> hello san :
Aug 05 17:19:48 <SanMehat> hey man
Aug 05 17:19:49 <SanMehat> whats up
Aug 05 17:22:32 <jasta> pretty good :)
Aug 05 17:23:17 <jasta> going out to my mom's to shoot pool tonight.  which is fun, because i'm way better than her :)
Aug 05 17:26:03 <SanMehat> good stuff
Aug 05 17:38:08 <jasta> romainguy_: so, is the next SDK drop expected to be 1.0?
Aug 05 17:38:20 <jasta> as in, very close if not identical to the shipped release?
Aug 05 17:47:41 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, makes sense, why do an non-NDA before a public release?
Aug 05 17:48:24 <anno^da_> whats up ? :) something new about a SDK ?
Aug 05 17:49:01 <michaelnovakjr> nope
Aug 05 17:49:09 <anno^da_> :)
Aug 05 17:49:25 <anno^da_> have done the flickr api now and it works perfectly :D
Aug 05 17:49:31 <michaelnovakjr> nice
Aug 05 17:50:07 <anno^da_> Now I have to do some UI :-)
Aug 05 17:50:58 <michaelnovakjr> will you have to choose files from the device?
Aug 05 17:51:19 <romainguy_> jasta: I can't comment on that
Aug 05 17:51:30 <romainguy_> anno^da_: nothing new :)
Aug 05 17:52:02 <anno^da_> Mmh well I'm just recording a image/video and uploading it directly to the media services. So not really choosing.
Aug 05 17:52:10 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Aug 05 17:52:26 <anno^da_> and adding geo codings to them.
Aug 05 17:52:35 <michaelnovakjr> romainguy_ http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages ... some early screenshots of the sms app i wrote
Aug 05 17:52:44 <anno^da_> At the moment it integrates Twittr, Flickr, Tumblr and Technorati for some Blog Pings
Aug 05 17:52:45 <romainguy_> I saw that :)
Aug 05 17:53:15 <anno^da_> michaelnovakjr: nice ui. Not overloaded :)
Aug 05 17:53:40 <michaelnovakjr> thanks, i try to keep it simple
Aug 05 17:53:46 <anno^da_> Yeah
Aug 05 17:54:02 <anno^da_> It's the best you can do.
Aug 05 17:54:23 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr: why are you writing an SMS app btw? :)
Aug 05 17:54:47 <michaelnovakjr> i wrote it for the htc, really, the sms on there was terrible
Aug 05 17:55:39 <jasta> romainguy_: i'm just concerned that there's gonna be a ton of bugs in the 1.0 release due to a lack of community involvement for so long...
Aug 05 17:56:02 <jasta> can you comment on any sort of software upgrade policy or release schedules post handset launch?
Aug 05 17:56:06 <anno^da_> Now I got a small question regarding my service. At the moment I'm using it just starting the service and it gets killed by him self after doing his job. Now I need some interaction with the service in my UI. Is it right that I have to start the service and then bind to it from the actvity calling methods. (I already did the AIDL files)
Aug 05 17:56:09 <romainguy_> no I can't jasta
Aug 05 17:56:23 <jasta> hmm.  *frustrated*
Aug 05 17:57:21 <jasta> anno^da_: The practice that I have adopted is to reinterpret what the service's onStart() call really means.
Aug 05 17:57:23 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, i'm a bit nervous as well. if you didn't deal with android on a regular basis you'd think it was dead
Aug 05 17:57:45 <jasta> onStart() can be thought of as onConnected(), and then through your service interface (defined in AIDL) you should add some type of doWork, stopWork methods.
Aug 05 17:58:00 <jasta> So you can happily bind to the service, "starting" it, but the service will just sit idly until you instruct it to do real work.
Aug 05 17:58:52 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: well it just seems highly likely that these private SDKs will have lots of problems in areas not well covered by google apps or ADC participants.  and if it is basically 1.0 final, then we're hosed to get fixes in place for handset launch.
Aug 05 17:58:57 <anno^da_> OK great thanks jast.
Aug 05 17:59:00 <anno^da_> jasta
Aug 05 17:59:02 <jasta> and then we don't know what it looks like to get those fixes incrementally applied?
Aug 05 17:59:05 <jasta> yikes, i saw.
Aug 05 17:59:07 <jasta> i say*
Aug 05 17:59:44 <jasta> anno^da_: This approach has lots of advantages as well.  Activities can connect to the service and just simply ask it what it's doing, which they can then decide whether to start it doing something else or observe progress.  Whatever you define in your AIDL.
Aug 05 18:00:08 <jasta> anno^da_: Do note as well that you can use asynchronous callbacks so your activity can get meaningful status change notifications as they occur (without polling).
Aug 05 18:00:17 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, i'm not so sure the adc guys are much better off though
Aug 05 18:00:31 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: Well, they at least have a voice where we have none.
Aug 05 18:00:35 <michaelnovakjr> true
Aug 05 18:00:51 <jasta> They could at least say "hey, what the hell, bug XYZ still isn't fixed?"
Aug 05 18:01:45 <anno^da_> thanks again jasta.
Aug 05 18:02:05 <jasta> anno^da_: By the way, the service stops itself via stopSelf() when it is truly done and ready to die.  But it won't die until all connected activities disconnect.
Aug 05 18:02:19 <jasta> Which is fine, because remember your service is organized to "live" but happily be idle.
Aug 05 18:02:45 <jasta> stopSelf() is more like a flag than an action.  It informs the manager that it's done, and can be killed whenever.
Aug 05 18:03:04 <jasta> If you don't call stopSelf(), however, it will never die.  Not even after the actvities disconnect.
Aug 05 18:03:15 <anno^da_> Yeah I recognized that.
Aug 05 18:03:28 <anno^da_> At the moment the service is killing its self
Aug 05 18:03:40 <jasta> One more thing, to note that your service must be thread-safe.  Multiple connecting activities issuing commands against it will all run in separate threads.
Aug 05 18:03:40 <anno^da_> after doing the API interaction stuff
Aug 05 18:03:51 <jasta> err, do note*
Aug 05 18:03:58 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, getting a device today?
Aug 05 18:04:07 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: Maybe not still, going to my mom's tonight.
Aug 05 18:04:11 <anno^da_> mhhh ok I'm not doing multiple connections at the moment. :)
Aug 05 18:04:22 <anno^da_> (too complicated for me atm :) )
Aug 05 18:05:10 <jasta> anno^da_: Well, anyone can access your service...
Aug 05 18:05:20 <jasta> so if you hope for your code to be reusable, be thread-safe.
Aug 05 18:05:37 <jasta> Thread-safety is very simple in Java, and in fact designing the code to be such will likely improve your design in general.
Aug 05 18:05:45 <anno^da_> Yeah that's right. I will note that down.
Aug 05 18:05:54 <jasta> One approach is to use a Handler and pass messages to the main thread from the method invocations.
Aug 05 18:05:59 <jasta> Just like in activities.
Aug 05 18:06:07 <anno^da_> At the moment I'm improving in java while writting some things :)
Aug 05 18:06:22 <jasta> another approach is to use the concurrent classes in Java and sychronize appropriately when accessing resources.
Aug 05 18:06:36 <jasta> and/or*, i mean
Aug 05 18:06:54 * anno^da_ is copying all the stuff into my notes :)
Aug 05 18:07:07 * anno^da_ into his notes :P
Aug 05 18:08:40 <anno^da_> But I can't wait testing the things on a real device. :)
Aug 05 18:09:46 <jasta> real devices are likely to expose numerous thread safety issues with most peoples applications.
Aug 05 18:10:01 <jasta> changing timing and introducing more obscure error conditions usually does that ;)
Aug 05 18:10:37 <jasta> a good portion of my code even needs to be rewritten with some faulty assumptions i made in my haste to submit for the ADC.
Aug 05 18:10:52 <jasta> assumptions removed*
Aug 05 18:11:45 <anno^da_> :-). The thing is while learning the whole stuff I'm doing so much errors in design. But that's ok I have to get better. :)
Aug 05 18:12:22 <jasta> If you have the time, I do recommend picking up a book on some of these topics more generally
Aug 05 18:12:55 <jasta> Java in general if you are largely unfamiliar with the language and runtime, and also on concurrency in Java.
Aug 05 18:13:31 <jasta> O'Reilly is usually a reliable publisher.
Aug 05 18:15:05 <anno^da_> Yeah I will do that. At the moment it is just having fun with all the APIs I can get and playing around connecting the services and mashing them up in the mobile area.
Aug 05 18:15:48 <anno^da_> I got some OReilly books already but hadnt the time to dive into them.
Aug 05 18:15:57 <jasta> well just remember, chasing obscure bugs you don't understand is when software engineering stops being fun. ;)
Aug 05 18:16:03 <anno^da_> :D
Aug 05 18:16:17 <michaelnovakjr> oh yea :)
Aug 05 18:16:20 <romainguy_> jasta: well just remember, chasing obscure bugs you don't understand is when software engineering stops being fun << sounds like my job description some days :)
Aug 05 18:16:45 <anno^da_> romainguy: *laughing*
Aug 05 18:17:12 * anno^da_ btw loves the adam ezra group
Aug 05 18:39:40 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, your logcat formatting has inspired the conversation view in Messages
Aug 05 19:20:44 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: glad i helped :)
Aug 05 19:29:29 <michaelnovakjr> I made the conversation one TextView
Aug 05 19:29:51 <jasta> i like to produce a lot of example code...
Aug 05 19:29:52 <michaelnovakjr> line wraps are much nicer now jasta :)
Aug 05 19:31:25 <michaelnovakjr> i added the timestamp to the conversation view as well
Aug 05 19:31:36 <jasta> i wish you would commit more atomically :)
Aug 05 19:31:49 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i'm going to do a commit now
Aug 05 19:32:04 <jasta> i try to commit every change independent of the others when possible
Aug 05 19:34:07 <sayers> jasta: I got into another java game, I guess you were right
Aug 05 19:34:22 <jasta> right about what?  i don't remember what i said? :)
Aug 05 19:35:04 <sayers> I said I'm only going to be game programming for 2 more days, and then you said "we'll see" or something like that
Aug 05 19:35:15 <sayers> well now I'm working on a huge project :z
Aug 05 19:35:28 <michaelnovakjr> committed a new revision jasta
Aug 05 19:35:43 <michaelnovakjr> i still have to setup the contacts picker.... shouldn't be hard at all
Aug 05 19:35:57 <jasta_> nice, i'll take a look tonight.
Aug 05 19:36:48 <michaelnovakjr> cool, i should have the contacts thing done then too
Aug 05 19:38:28 <anno^da_> Got a question am I able to set Toasts from my Service ?
Aug 05 19:39:27 <michaelnovakjr> you have to do it on the UI Thread i believe
Aug 05 19:41:22 <jasta_> anno: yes, in fact the main thread of a service is in the ui context.
Aug 05 19:41:52 <jasta_> but only the main thread can do it.  the implemented aidl interface runs on separate binder thread.s
Aug 05 19:41:53 <anno^da_> So the only notification I can do (when my activity is not active) is a status bar notification right ?
Aug 05 19:42:08 <jasta_> this is where a handler would come in very handy.
Aug 05 19:42:32 <jasta_> no, as i said, a services main thread is in the ui context.
Aug 05 19:42:59 <michaelnovakjr> i like the handler method
Aug 05 19:44:15 <jasta_> ditto.
Aug 05 19:44:52 <jasta_> check out uithreadutils if you'd prefer a simplr abstraction.
Aug 05 19:47:37 <jasta> UIThreadUtilities is the proper class name :)
Aug 05 19:47:40 <jasta> i was just on my phone hehe
Aug 05 19:48:12 <michaelnovakjr> :) what client do you use?
Aug 05 19:48:24 <anno^da_> Its working now
Aug 05 19:48:35 <anno^da_> just a little bug in my Handler :)
Aug 05 19:48:41 <anno^da_> great
Aug 05 19:48:48 <anno^da_> thanks guys.
Aug 05 19:55:44 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: some non-free windows mobile program.  it's not great, and when i get android i hope to use ssh instead of a separte instance
Aug 05 19:56:36 <sayers> go non-free windows!
Aug 05 19:56:38 <sayers> woo111
Aug 05 19:56:49 <michaelnovakjr> boo
Aug 05 19:57:01 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i wonder if you could find an irc client for android :)
Aug 05 19:57:11 <jasta> well, it would be poitnless, since that osk sucks so bad :)
Aug 05 19:57:52 <michaelnovakjr> yea
Aug 05 19:58:00 <michaelnovakjr> an idea would be to write another :)
Aug 05 19:58:12 <jasta> let's not get carried away :)
Aug 05 19:59:42 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 20:03:26 <jasta> i'm sure plenty of goons will write crummy IRC clients, we don't need to be one of them
Aug 05 20:07:33 <sayers> :P\
Aug 05 20:08:23 <jasta> that said i am writing a solitaire (freecell) game.
Aug 05 20:09:02 <jasta> just to get some familiarity with a different sort of project
Aug 05 20:09:32 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 20:09:41 <michaelnovakjr> i'm doing a game next
Aug 05 20:10:19 <AttractiveApe> michaelnovakjr: wow, what's your day job?
Aug 05 20:10:27 <michaelnovakjr> programming
Aug 05 20:10:34 <AttractiveApe> For Android?
Aug 05 20:10:56 <michaelnovakjr> no
Aug 05 20:11:05 <michaelnovakjr> web programming :(
Aug 05 20:11:14 * AttractiveApe nods.
Aug 05 20:12:12 <f00f-> jasta: gmaps is definitely a competitor. but we think we have a unique thing or two. ;)
Aug 05 20:12:37 <michaelnovakjr> hopefully a good unique thing or two ;)
Aug 05 20:12:44 <f00f-> trying to solve a problem that's very common amongst all LBS apps
Aug 05 20:12:47 <f00f-> trying to connect disparities
Aug 05 20:12:52 <f00f-> yeah i hope so michael
Aug 05 20:13:17 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 20:13:42 <michaelnovakjr> as someone who takes the subway to work everyday, i appreciate non-network applications :)
Aug 05 20:14:17 <f00f-> current operation needs network, but it's designed to work in disconnected mode
Aug 05 20:14:26 <michaelnovakjr> cool
Aug 05 20:14:42 <jasta> f00f-: it'll be interesting to see if google tries to shut you out.
Aug 05 20:14:50 <jasta> to avoid confusing consumers, that is.
Aug 05 20:15:19 <jasta> actually, i bet your biggest challenge will come from "unbiased" carriers who will not want to distribute an app over Google's own, unless it's also their own.
Aug 05 20:16:00 <michaelnovakjr> that could very well be true
Aug 05 20:16:12 * zhobbs_ wonders when/how his adc nda expires
Aug 05 20:16:27 <jasta> zhobbs_: In 3 years, didn't you read it? :)
Aug 05 20:17:05 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: i bet carriers will still try to lock down the "default" experience very tightly.
Aug 05 20:17:58 <f00f-> jasta: well if our app offers more functionality/features, then google must play catchup :)
Aug 05 20:18:22 <jasta> f00f-: and they might, or they might just throw their weight at you and nobody will care to use your app?
Aug 05 20:18:31 <f00f-> throw their weight, how
Aug 05 20:18:34 <jasta> google, afterall, is going to control the app "market".
Aug 05 20:18:59 <f00f-> i doubt they'll try any tricks
Aug 05 20:19:00 <jasta> also, carriers and oems control what goes on the phones in the US.
Aug 05 20:19:13 <f00f-> yeah, unless you have a cozy relationship with them!
Aug 05 20:19:19 <jasta> f00f-: Maybe they don't have to?  If they don't intentionally guide traffic away from their own apps, it's unlikely anyone will find/want them
Aug 05 20:19:34 <jasta> f00f-: Are you partnering with OEMs?
Aug 05 20:19:51 <f00f-> not yet
Aug 05 20:19:59 <jasta> Competing with Google on one of its flagship accomplishments is seemingly impossible.
Aug 05 20:20:13 <michaelnovakjr> escpecially when they power your engine :)
Aug 05 20:20:17 <jasta> They are a juggernaut, even if everyone wants to see them as the little guy :)
Aug 05 20:21:04 <f00f-> yes, it'll be interesting to see what happens
Aug 05 20:21:34 <jasta> I'm especially curious.  I don't want this platform to have all the same hidden agenda crap that Apple has with the iPhone
Aug 05 20:21:37 <jasta> but it might just.
Aug 05 20:21:38 <f00f-> i'd like symbian, blackberry, and iphone ports too
Aug 05 20:21:56 <jasta> f00f-: The iPhone?  Oh jeez.  You're still competing with Google, and now you've got Apple to answer to ;)
Aug 05 20:22:02 <f00f-> i think ultimately the operators will have the final say
Aug 05 20:22:10 <f00f-> well iphone waiting until the licensing becomes more friendly
Aug 05 20:22:20 <f00f-> not going to sign an NDA to develop and restrict myself
Aug 05 20:22:29 <jasta> you're not?  really? :)
Aug 05 20:22:45 <f00f-> well iphone is public right? ;)
Aug 05 20:22:49 <f00f-> or is the sdk still considered private
Aug 05 20:22:57 <f00f-> it has some legal trings attached to it i thought
Aug 05 20:23:05 <jasta> more public than android, i'd say.
Aug 05 20:23:13 <f00f-> true
Aug 05 20:23:20 <jasta> f00f-: i was just jabbing at you.  you already signed an NDA to develop :)
Aug 05 20:23:26 <jasta> if one, why not another? :)
Aug 05 20:23:58 <f00f-> niceness(GOOG) > niceness(APPL) == true
Aug 05 20:24:20 <jasta> you have nothing to base that opinion on, however.
Aug 05 20:24:27 <jasta> You haven't competed with either of them yet :)
Aug 05 20:24:34 <f00f-> yeah, it's a shot in the dark
Aug 05 20:24:38 <jasta> I'm pretty sure both are quite ruthless when you do.
Aug 05 20:24:42 <f00f-> at the very minimum an iphone web app (LBS) would be nice
Aug 05 20:24:47 <f00f-> yeah probably
Aug 05 20:25:28 <michaelnovakjr> f00f-: the google NDA doesn't expire?
Aug 05 20:25:37 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: it expires in 3 years, according to its text.
Aug 05 20:25:56 <f00f-> 3 years after the termination of it, i think
Aug 05 20:26:12 <michaelnovakjr> interesting
Aug 05 20:26:16 <f00f-> but it's to specifics only
Aug 05 20:26:21 <f00f-> so should be a non-issue for most
Aug 05 20:26:48 <zhobbs_> yeah, will be once a new public build is released
Aug 05 20:27:11 <zhobbs_> will be a non-issue that is
Aug 05 20:27:14 <jasta> zhobbs_: you're lucky that google has no interest in holding you to that 3 year clause.
Aug 05 20:27:15 <michaelnovakjr> still not holding my breath :)
Aug 05 20:27:23 <jasta> because if they did, you are legally required to.
Aug 05 20:27:36 <jasta> i think you all are crazy for signing that unammended.
Aug 05 20:27:52 <michaelnovakjr> yea, it kind of defeats the purpose of the ADC i think
Aug 05 20:28:05 <michaelnovakjr> it kinda why i have no interest in the apparent ADC2
Aug 05 20:28:11 <michaelnovakjr> its*
Aug 05 20:29:38 <f00f-> personally, i think it was a bait and switch
Aug 05 20:29:40 <f00f-> to require a contract
Aug 05 20:29:57 <zhobbs_> f00f-: what do you mean?
Aug 05 20:30:09 <f00f-> well, i didnt know upfront that round 2 was going to be closed
Aug 05 20:30:14 <jasta> f00f-: i agree completely.  i even had dan confirm at one point open source projects would be eligible to compete.  that statement turned out to be outright false.
Aug 05 20:30:16 <michaelnovakjr> was it as much fun as round 1?
Aug 05 20:30:31 <jasta> in fact, i treasure his exact quote.
Aug 05 20:30:39 <jasta> When asked about the eligibility of open source projects he said
Aug 05 20:30:50 <jasta> "I'm sure we won't go and do something stupid like bar open source projects from competing."
Aug 05 20:30:56 <jasta> But they did go and do something stupid like that ;)
Aug 05 20:31:00 <michaelnovakjr> that is also part of my reason for steering clear of adc2
Aug 05 20:31:23 <michaelnovakjr> well, they just forced open source projects to be closed source :)
Aug 05 20:31:28 <chomchom> open projects aren't allowed to compete in ADC 2?
Aug 05 20:31:31 <michaelnovakjr> for an undisclosed amount of time :)
Aug 05 20:31:41 <jasta> chomchom: How can they?  They can't release source.
Aug 05 20:31:48 <jasta> michaelnovakjr: You can't be an open source project and be closed source :)
Aug 05 20:31:55 <michaelnovakjr> true
Aug 05 20:31:56 <zhobbs_> jasta: adc2 will probably be different
Aug 05 20:32:15 <michaelnovakjr> zhobbs_: i'm sure, but it still doesn't seem appealing
Aug 05 20:32:25 <jasta> zhobbs_: I'm not holding my breath.
Aug 05 20:32:52 <chomchom> You can be open with your source but still monetize your binary builds using licensing agreements
Aug 05 20:32:57 <jasta> chomchom: I meant ADC 1, and I didn't quite read your "ADC 2" part :)
Aug 05 20:33:13 <jasta> chomchom: ADC 1 bars open source projects, by way of an NDA preventing source disclosure.
Aug 05 20:33:24 <chomchom> ah
Aug 05 20:33:41 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, don't forget for an undisclosed amount of time :)
Aug 05 20:33:42 <f00f-> jasta: yeah i remember. it totally sucks for OSS projects in round 2. kinda forces everyone to be closed for a siginifcant amount of time.
Aug 05 20:33:54 <f00f-> michaelnovakjr: fun, yeah i guess, smaller crowd :P
Aug 05 20:34:11 <f00f-> i think they know they poorly executed ADC I, so perhaps things will chnage
Aug 05 20:34:14 <f00f-> have faith :P
Aug 05 20:34:16 <zhobbs_> yeah, less fun because our irc room and mailing list had less people
Aug 05 20:34:54 <michaelnovakjr> i just figured i'm happy programming now, and i don't have to worry about google or anyone telling me what i can do with my code
Aug 05 20:35:37 <zhobbs_> I love open source...but that's not to say $$ is a big motivator for me
Aug 05 20:35:49 <michaelnovakjr> true, money has a funny way of doing that :)
Aug 05 20:35:58 <f00f-> i mean clearly for round 2, they want profitable apps
Aug 05 20:36:01 <f00f-> it's all about the money
Aug 05 20:36:10 <f00f-> well even for round 1, they wanted a monetary angle
Aug 05 20:36:32 <f00f-> "how can sell/embed ads in this app to increase roi?"
Aug 05 20:36:33 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i'm not really all about that.... for me it takes away the fun feeling
Aug 05 20:36:52 <zhobbs_> michaelnovakjr: there's room for both...I think we'll see a nice open source community
Aug 05 20:37:14 <michaelnovakjr> i end up using the apps i write, so for me to release the source and give it away free its all good because i still see benefits of getting to use my app
Aug 05 20:37:19 <f00f-> yeah i guess money is an initial motivator, but the end result, if you're successful, is that you'll have an app with millions of users, which is the 'high' many people look for in the end.
Aug 05 20:38:20 <michaelnovakjr> i kind of laughed when romainguy asked why i was writing an sms app
Aug 05 20:38:23 <zhobbs_> I'm looking forward to the results of round 2, I feel like we made a pretty good app and I want to see what other people are up to
Aug 05 20:38:43 <michaelnovakjr> i was thinking, there isn't one now...... and there's no signs of when one will be available... so why wait?
Aug 05 20:39:31 <zhobbs_> michaelnovakjr: I think it's awesomw
Aug 05 20:39:32 <michaelnovakjr> zhobbs_: there will definitely be room for both, i just hope the open source community is bigger, and more than that of better quality
Aug 05 20:39:39 <f00f-> screens michael?
Aug 05 20:39:51 <michaelnovakjr> http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages
Aug 05 20:39:57 <zhobbs_> I just like seeing open source projects emerging of any kind
Aug 05 20:39:59 <michaelnovakjr> i'll be putting updated ones up tonight
Aug 05 20:41:47 <michaelnovakjr> i modified the conversation view slightly
Aug 05 20:43:29 <michaelnovakjr> thanks zhobbs_
Aug 05 20:43:53 <f00f-> okay, yeah it's a start
Aug 05 20:43:59 <f00f-> i'm looking for bubbles :D
Aug 05 20:44:10 <michaelnovakjr> bubbles?
Aug 05 20:44:12 <f00f-> i think text needs to be bigger too
Aug 05 20:44:18 <f00f-> for readability on a real device
Aug 05 20:44:25 <f00f-> yeah like iPhone
Aug 05 20:44:28 <f00f-> so you know who is who
Aug 05 20:44:40 <michaelnovakjr> did you forget who me is?
Aug 05 20:44:46 <michaelnovakjr> :)
Aug 05 20:44:52 <f00f-> ok how about
Aug 05 20:44:55 <f00f-> like google talk
Aug 05 20:45:00 <f00f-> if you send many things in  a row
Aug 05 20:45:03 <f00f-> dont have a new entry for it
Aug 05 20:46:05 <zhobbs_> I think I'd want separate entries
Aug 05 20:46:15 <zhobbs_> to know time frame
Aug 05 20:46:44 <f00f-> customizability !
Aug 05 20:46:45 <michaelnovakjr> yea, i didn't want to get fancy with bubbles and all that because it seems a bit overkill
Aug 05 20:47:10 <f00f-> i think it's needed though
Aug 05 20:47:29 <michaelnovakjr> you and the other person are different colors as well
Aug 05 20:47:44 <f00f-> well how about
Aug 05 20:47:47 <f00f-> you justified on left
Aug 05 20:47:50 <f00f-> other on right
Aug 05 20:48:04 <f00f-> so you can kinda see a 'back and forth' convo
Aug 05 20:49:09 <michaelnovakjr> to me i do see a back and forth convo.... i see Me: and then the other person :)
Aug 05 20:50:38 <michaelnovakjr> i guess you could jazz up text messaging.... but i am not sure the extra baggage is necessar
Aug 05 20:50:41 <michaelnovakjr> y
Aug 05 20:50:58 <michaelnovakjr> i think the only reason the iPhone has it is because of iChat
Aug 05 20:51:21 <michaelnovakjr> and with Android, I don't have an iChat like program i need to mimic
Aug 05 20:52:28 <michaelnovakjr> and f00f- by the way.... i'm using it on a real device :)
Aug 05 20:52:40 <f00f-> oh?
Aug 05 20:52:45 <chomchom> really?
Aug 05 20:52:52 <michaelnovakjr> the vogue android port
Aug 05 20:52:52 <chomchom> thats hardcore
Aug 05 20:53:00 <michaelnovakjr> the only reason i wrote it :)
Aug 05 20:55:50 <michaelnovakjr> so getting the UI to work on a device was important :)
Aug 05 20:56:53 <f00f-> what?
Aug 05 20:56:55 <f00f-> device?
Aug 05 20:57:05 <f00f-> someone pre'd a handset for you?
Aug 05 20:57:05 <michaelnovakjr> the vogue
Aug 05 20:57:12 <f00f-> never heard of it
Aug 05 20:57:16 <f00f-> who makes it?
Aug 05 20:57:17 <michaelnovakjr> the htc touch
Aug 05 20:57:24 <f00f-> oh
Aug 05 20:57:26 <f00f-> same thing
Aug 05 20:57:30 <michaelnovakjr> a guy has android booting off of win mo
Aug 05 20:57:36 <f00f-> ltns
Aug 05 20:57:45 <michaelnovakjr> with the data connection, calling, and text messaging working
Aug 05 20:57:56 <f00f-> nice
Aug 05 20:57:59 <f00f-> that is awesome
Aug 05 20:58:00 <michaelnovakjr> as well as obviously the browser and maps applications
Aug 05 20:58:02 <f00f-> is it fast?
Aug 05 20:58:11 <michaelnovakjr> definitely faster than the emulator
Aug 05 20:58:13 <AttractiveApe> pretty fast and smooth.
Aug 05 20:58:18 <michaelnovakjr> i like it
Aug 05 20:58:37 <michaelnovakjr> its pleasant to use
Aug 05 20:58:41 <f00f-> nice
Aug 05 20:58:46 <f00f-> flicking list views up and down must be nice
Aug 05 20:59:00 <michaelnovakjr> and the notification manager is much easier too :)
Aug 05 21:00:06 <f00f-> ya
Aug 05 21:00:06 <michaelnovakjr> AttractiveApe: in a few hours i'm going to be posting the apk on the downloads page
Aug 05 21:00:17 <michaelnovakjr> just have one more item to add
Aug 05 21:00:20 <f00f-> will the apk run on my emulator ;p
Aug 05 21:00:25 <michaelnovakjr> yes f00f-
Aug 05 21:00:36 <michaelnovakjr> although it doesn't complete the sms send
Aug 05 21:00:43 <michaelnovakjr> the app just acts like it does
Aug 05 21:01:30 * f00f- hax into HTC labs to get launch handset
Aug 05 21:39:02 <jasta> [13:39] <zhobbs_> I just like seeing open source projects emerging of any kind
Aug 05 21:39:09 <jasta> <-- then maybe you should create one :)
Aug 05 21:39:19 <jasta> stupid linebreak ;)
Aug 05 21:40:15 <michaelnovakjr> jasta, created a menu option to call the sender in the messages app
Aug 05 21:40:25 <jasta> very nice
Aug 05 21:40:41 <michaelnovakjr> figured it would be easy.... and it was :)
Aug 05 21:40:48 <michaelnovakjr> it makes sense too
Aug 05 21:40:55 <jasta> definitely
Aug 05 21:43:34 <michaelnovakjr> i'll be back later... i'm going to post the apk later once i add the contact picker
Aug 05 21:55:09 <rainabba> Still trying to get the hang of Android as a project (primary systems, compiling, etc...); I've got a Vouge and a couple working copies of Android for it (with a few bugs of course) and I am hearing about "newer" versions. I can't grab just any initrd.gz because each would have drivers appropriate for a given device, right?
Aug 05 21:55:45 <jasta> rainabba: software isn't magic.
Aug 05 21:55:52 <rainabba> Really!
Aug 05 21:56:01 <rainabba> Damn, there goes my bubble :)
Aug 05 21:56:35 <rainabba> Sorry if my question wasn't worded so well. Likely a reflection of my ignorance on the subject.
Aug 05 21:57:24 <rainabba> Worded another way: initrd.gz is device specific for releases of Android correct?
Aug 05 21:57:54 <rainabba> IOW, I couldn't just grab one from the SDK and drop it on my HTC VOuge and expect it to run.
Aug 05 21:57:58 <f00f-> i love when people are humble
Aug 05 21:57:58 <rainabba> ?
Aug 05 21:59:00 * rainabba dodges the oncomming sarcasm
Aug 05 21:59:21 <rainabba> I'm not humble, I'm honest.
Aug 05 21:59:39 <rainabba> I'm quite arrogant actually, but only where I can justfy my right to be.
Aug 05 21:59:56 <rainabba> s/justfy/justify
Aug 05 21:59:58 <f00f-> i was being honest :)
Aug 05 22:00:12 <rainabba> In that case, thank you. My point stands still :)
Aug 05 22:00:20 <f00f-> well it's great that there are adventurous people running the SDK on real devices
Aug 05 22:00:24 <f00f-> i'd love to do that
Aug 05 22:00:43 <f00f-> as far as your question, i think every device needs customizzation no?
Aug 05 22:00:50 <f00f-> not sure how the initrd is organized
Aug 05 22:00:57 <f00f-> and what modules you need for your arch
Aug 05 22:01:09 <rainabba> With haret it appears to be pretty harmless. I couldn't do it on my own either. A gentleman at Massey University is responsible for my fun I think.
Aug 05 22:01:21 <f00f-> tax dollars at work!
Aug 05 22:01:40 <rainabba> Isn't that a "private" school?
Aug 05 22:02:23 <rainabba> I know there are some patches he released that must be applied to an older version of the SDK, but I'm thinking someone figured out his underlying logic and applied them to a newer version. Just dunno where to get the latest, or how to do it myself.
Aug 05 22:02:39 <rainabba> Getting nearly all my info from: http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=23244&goto=newpost
Aug 05 22:03:26 <brunokbcao> Is this channel about "Google Android"?
Aug 05 22:03:50 <rainabba> Do you want it to be?
Aug 05 22:03:59 <rainabba> Life is what you make of it.
Aug 05 22:04:00 <f00f-> depends on the objective
Aug 05 22:04:10 <f00f-> we talk about a vast range of topics
Aug 05 22:04:14 <f00f-> :)
Aug 05 22:06:58 <rainabba> So I still say the idea that we have a massive black hole in the middle of the milkyway, but it's lying dormant, completely contradicts the general idea of a black hole.
Aug 05 22:07:39 <f00f-> depends on the extent of event horizon
Aug 05 22:08:43 <rainabba> In any case, it diminishes the fear-factor that they had before this 'discovery'. If the galaxy is in balance with it or expanding, it's not really a threat.
Aug 05 22:09:18 * rainabba goes to edit his default.txt
Aug 05 22:11:47 <f00f-> grep -v O_BLACKHOLE /dev/universe0 > /tmp/univ2 ; mknod c 6 23 /dev/universe1 ; mv /tmp/univ2 /dev/universe1 ; cat /dev/null > /dev/universe0
Aug 05 22:13:06 <rainabba> Eeek. In that case, I want to exist in /dev/universe1. Do I have a choice? Also, do all realities exist in /dev/universe0, or is there only one reality with count(/dev/universe*) > 0?
Aug 05 22:13:46 <f00f-> universe0 becomes invalid the moment you null it, but the UniverseManager shifts the context to /dev/universe1 so you get everything but the black hole
Aug 05 22:14:00 <rainabba> Nice
Aug 05 22:14:03 <rainabba> Good thinking
Aug 05 22:14:36 <rainabba> SOmeones goes to run across this on Google from IRC logs some day and seriously scratch their head.
Aug 05 22:14:50 <romainguy_> I am scratching my head right now
Aug 05 22:15:29 <f00f-> he's gonna patent that s***, better run for your lives!
Aug 05 22:15:58 <rainabba> :P
Aug 05 22:16:02 <yakischloba> Sorry I already hold an ambiguous patent that covers such a concept.
Aug 05 22:16:37 <rainabba> Yah, and who's going to help you enforce that patent; God?
Aug 05 22:17:14 <f00f-> whoever manages multiple unvierses
Aug 05 22:17:16 <f00f-> could be null
Aug 05 22:17:19 <f00f-> in which case you're in big trouble
Aug 05 22:17:26 <rainabba> I WILL NULL YOUR UNIVERSE and pass the UniverseManager a parameter so that O_BLACKHOLE shifts with your context.
Aug 05 22:17:44 <chomchom> hardcore
Aug 05 22:17:55 * rainabba can no longer stand the geekyness of this joke
Aug 05 22:18:06 <rainabba> geekyness? Hmm.
Aug 05 22:18:40 <rainabba> Just realized we have a crowd.
Aug 05 22:19:08 <chomchom> Theres always a lurking few.
Aug 05 22:20:48 <jasta> rainabba: i did not have the opportunity to finish my thoughts...sorry
Aug 05 22:21:03 <jasta> rainabba: but the kernel is not modular with Android, so the zImage contains all the driver code
Aug 05 22:21:22 <jasta> the initrd is just the ramdisk image that boots android, it contains significant code to power Android, system libraries, init scripts, etc.
Aug 05 22:21:47 <jasta> the system and data images are just a more formal structure for Android to lay onto, and to store its runtime/framework stuffs.
Aug 05 22:22:01 * rainabba considers "system libraries"
Aug 05 22:22:19 <rainabba> So which of those two files are device specific?
Aug 05 22:22:25 <rainabba> ... or both?
Aug 05 22:32:11 <jasta> rainabba: both of them, potentially.
Aug 05 22:32:19 <rainabba> rgr. ty
Aug 05 22:32:20 <jasta> for example, there are dev entries in the initrd
Aug 05 22:32:27 <jasta> for devices that the kernel implements
Aug 05 22:32:35 <jasta> but mostly the kernel in this case, being that iti s not modular
Aug 05 22:32:46 <jasta> the Android release, however, depends heavily on both for obvious reasons
Aug 05 22:33:06 <jasta> userspace must communicate with kernel space, so given al the voodoo going on with Android in the linux kernel there is quite a lot of that communication
Aug 05 22:33:26 <rainabba> Of course :)
Aug 05 22:33:33 * rainabba smiles like he really understands
Aug 05 22:33:37 <jasta> still, i woudln't go around just randomly plugging in files and try to boot them without knowing what the hell you're working with
Aug 05 22:33:48 <rainabba> That's what I'm taking from this.
Aug 05 22:33:55 <jasta> what?
Aug 05 22:34:10 <rainabba> Have to rely on others for now. I'm not even remotely capable of such wizardry.
Aug 05 22:34:31 <rainabba> Err, That's what I'm coming to understand now from what you're saying.
Aug 05 22:35:45 <jasta> whatever
Aug 05 22:35:58 <jasta> so what brings you here, then?
Aug 05 22:37:00 <rainabba> Interest. I've got the SDK, I've got the emulator, I've got enough experience with C languages and varies IDEs, and I've got a phone capable of and currently running Android. Just trying to learn and explore.
Aug 05 22:37:42 <rainabba> In large, I'm trying to determine if and how I can maintain an up-2-date zKernel and initrd on my own.
Aug 05 22:38:02 <rainabba> zImage I mean
Aug 05 22:38:16 <jasta> you mean keeping up with the changes that the google developers are making?
Aug 05 22:38:25 <rainabba> Daunting, but I'm not feeling hopeless just yet.
Aug 05 22:40:49 <jasta> actually, i don't think you even know what the hell you want.
Aug 05 22:40:55 <rainabba> jasta: Not really. I think I'm too far behind the curve to absorb that yet.
Aug 05 22:41:14 <jasta> you don't even know what initrd does or contains, or what a zImage is, do you?
Aug 05 22:41:42 <rainabba> Got a vauge idea and wikipedia.
Aug 05 22:42:04 <jasta> then i highly recommend that you give up.
Aug 05 22:42:25 <rainabba> You're right! I just better then. Lord knows I'm not up for a challange.
Aug 05 22:42:26 <jasta> you don't even know what you want to do or why you want to do it.  so don't do it.
Aug 05 22:42:35 * rainabba rolls his eyes
Aug 05 22:43:17 <jasta> rainabba: let me explain something to you.  no new Android release has been made in 6 months.  The kernel changes being made by the Google employees are not especially helpful to your Vogue.
Aug 05 22:43:28 <rainabba> jasta: Please don't talk to yourself too long. I'm not up to arguing with idiot and nay-sayers and thus use /ignore freely.
Aug 05 22:44:12 * rainabba resumes listening and learning
Aug 05 22:44:30 <sayers> jasta: I don't know where that came from, but... ouch :)
Aug 05 22:44:49 <chomchom> yeah man a bit harsh
Aug 05 22:45:10 <rainabba> " then i highly recommend that you give up." " you don't even know what you want to do or why you want to do it."
Aug 05 22:45:29 <rainabba> I'd say the attitude behind that comments far exceeds mine.
Aug 05 22:45:33 <rainabba> s/that/those
Aug 05 22:45:55 <rainabba> Let me quote myself as well: "Interest. I've got the SDK, I've got the emulator, I've got enough experience with C languages and varies IDEs, and I've got a phone capable of and currently running Android. Just trying to learn and explore."
Aug 05 22:46:12 <jasta> rainabba: If you aren't interested in talking to me, I'd ask that you not talk about me as well.
Aug 05 22:46:18 <Dougie187> hows it going jasta
Aug 05 22:46:24 <rainabba> Not looking to start a fight though so if an appology will keep the peace, jasta has it.
Aug 05 22:46:29 <jasta> By the way, I also have experimented heavily with the Vogue.
Aug 05 22:47:13 <jasta> Dougie187: good, you?
Aug 05 22:47:16 <Dougie187> pretty  good
Aug 05 22:47:20 <Dougie187> trying to get wireless n working.
Aug 05 22:47:23 <jasta> Dougie187: i still haven't gone to the Sprint store hehe
Aug 05 22:47:40 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 05 22:47:45 <Dougie187> i thought you were going to go there yesterday
Aug 05 22:47:57 <jasta> i was, but it's hard to get away from the gf.
Aug 05 22:47:58 <Dougie187> i just imagined you driving there peeing your pants the whole way.
Aug 05 22:47:59 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 05 22:48:05 <jasta> yeah, i would have
Aug 05 22:48:17 <jasta> i tried to even convince her that i would go there, pick it up, and i wouldn't play with it at all that night
Aug 05 22:48:24 <Dougie187> hah
Aug 05 22:48:26 <jasta> but she's smarter than that hehe
Aug 05 22:48:29 <Dougie187> you should have taken her with you.
Aug 05 22:48:33 <Dougie187> made it a date.
Aug 05 22:48:35 <Dougie187> thats what i would od.
Aug 05 22:48:37 <Dougie187> do*
Aug 05 22:48:47 <Dougie187> then go to the mall with her or something
Aug 05 22:48:48 <jasta> hehe, i did take her with me to the apple store when i played with the iPhone for like 2 hours getting interface ideas for Five
Aug 05 22:48:57 <Dougie187> haha
Aug 05 22:49:05 <jasta> i think she thought it was going to take 5 minutes :)
Aug 05 22:49:55 <jasta> i told her that Romain was poking fun at how much Five looked like the iPhone/iPod, and she was like "well i should hope so after two hours at the apple store."
Aug 05 22:49:56 <Dougie187> ok.. well lets see if this works..
Aug 05 22:50:04 <Dougie187> haha
Aug 05 22:50:09 <Dougie187> sounds like shes a little bitter
Aug 05 22:50:17 <jasta> she's just happy the ADC is over :)
Aug 05 22:50:28 <Dougie187> well its going to start back up again soon....ish....
Aug 05 22:50:40 <Dougie187> good evening michaelnovakjr__
Aug 05 22:50:45 <jasta> Dougie187: yeah but that should meet me a bit differently, since my app already has a substantial base.
Aug 05 22:50:56 <Dougie187> and following by that point.
Aug 05 22:50:56 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 05 22:50:57 <michaelnovakjr__> hey what's up?
Aug 05 22:51:10 <Dougie187> not much. how bout you?
Aug 05 22:51:18 <Dougie187> i hope this doesnt break my laptop!
Aug 05 22:51:19 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 05 22:51:24 <michaelnovakjr__> eh, not too much... just got home a little while ago
Aug 05 22:51:32 <Dougie187> sounds cool.
Aug 05 22:51:44 <Dougie187> i got home about an hour and a half ago.
Aug 05 22:51:45 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: not much, i was looking over Messages...
Aug 05 22:51:55 <michaelnovakjr__> what do you think?
Aug 05 22:52:04 <Dougie187> jasta: are you going to get  the thing today?
Aug 05 22:52:04 <jasta> I like it, but there are still some UI tweaks i would do
Aug 05 22:52:16 <michaelnovakjr__> what did you have in mind?
Aug 05 22:52:16 <jasta> Dougie187: no, today i'm busy.  shooting pool with my mom tonight
Aug 05 22:52:22 <Dougie187> heh
Aug 05 22:52:23 <Dougie187> ok
Aug 05 22:52:29 <Dougie187> ill brb one sec. have to reboot.
Aug 05 22:53:07 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: hey, did you not commit your .project?
Aug 05 22:53:13 <jasta> or is this not an eclipse project?
Aug 05 22:53:33 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm not using eclipse.... but i should start generating the projects anyway :)
Aug 05 22:54:05 <michaelnovakjr__> make it a little easier for people unfamiliar with ant
Aug 05 22:54:11 <michaelnovakjr__> or that don't like it :)
Aug 05 22:54:43 <jasta> i prefer maven to ant
Aug 05 22:54:47 <jasta> i put a pom.xml there too :)
Aug 05 22:54:52 <michaelnovakjr__> cool
Aug 05 22:55:07 <romainguy_> Maven is not quite the same thing as ant
Aug 05 22:55:10 <jasta> it's nice because it resolves dependencies from a remote repository
Aug 05 22:55:11 <jasta> like CPAN
Aug 05 22:55:15 <michaelnovakjr__> what UI tweaks did you have in mind?
Aug 05 22:55:29 <Dougie187> sad panda.
Aug 05 22:55:31 <jasta> romainguy_: well, they're analogous as build tools.
Aug 05 22:55:39 <jasta> Dougie187: hehe
Aug 05 22:55:40 <romainguy_> not really
Aug 05 22:55:54 <jasta> *AS* build tools, not analogous build tools :)
Aug 05 22:56:29 <jasta> Dougie187: latest commit fails to build
Aug 05 22:56:39 <Dougie187> lol
Aug 05 22:56:43 <jasta> err, michaelnovakjr__
Aug 05 22:56:53 <Dougie187> i just installed a new kernel which was supposed to have n in it. and it doesnt.. :(
Aug 05 22:56:56 <michaelnovakjr__> i haven't done the 1.5 thing
Aug 05 22:56:58 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: You're missing an import in Conversations.java
Aug 05 22:57:19 <romainguy_> michaelnovakjr: and that's why IDEs are nice :)
Aug 05 22:57:25 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 05 22:57:34 <Dougie187> IDEs are for pansys.
Aug 05 22:58:24 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, that was a change I made as I was leaving
Aug 05 22:59:00 <jasta> am i seeing the latest feature set or no?
Aug 05 22:59:18 <michaelnovakjr__> yep
Aug 05 22:59:27 <michaelnovakjr__> fixed Conversation class
Aug 05 22:59:45 <michaelnovakjr__> i still have stuff I'm working on.... but that is my copy of the project
Aug 05 22:59:59 <michaelnovakjr__> that is i am at a clean r87
Aug 05 23:00:13 <jasta> k, building
Aug 05 23:00:34 <jasta> the more i look at the M5 UI the more i like it
Aug 05 23:00:38 <jasta> soft buttons and everything
Aug 05 23:00:42 <michaelnovakjr__> its nice
Aug 05 23:00:54 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm a fan of it
Aug 05 23:01:17 <michaelnovakjr__> i am curious to see the UI changes romainguy_ says were made
Aug 05 23:01:31 <michaelnovakjr__> m3 to m5 was a significant improvement :)
Aug 05 23:01:40 <romainguy_> well
Aug 05 23:01:46 <romainguy_> have you seen the autocompletetextview in M5?
Aug 05 23:01:58 <michaelnovakjr__> i use it in my app
Aug 05 23:02:08 <jasta> i think the timestamp should float on the right side
Aug 05 23:02:11 <jasta> and be a darker color
Aug 05 23:02:13 <jasta> maybe a gray
Aug 05 23:02:16 <romainguy_> well that guy is still using the M3 style
Aug 05 23:02:39 <michaelnovakjr__> i noticed that, i wasn't sure if that was intentional/meant to be that way
Aug 05 23:02:53 <jasta> what guy?
Aug 05 23:02:58 <romainguy_> autocompletetextview
Aug 05 23:03:21 <jasta> oh.
Aug 05 23:04:02 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, i was thinking in terms of information processing, you see the time and person first and then read the message.
Aug 05 23:04:54 <jasta> i'm not sure I agree.  also, i would organize the sender on a line by themselves
Aug 05 23:04:57 <jasta> on the top line
Aug 05 23:05:10 <jasta> i can mock it up how i think it should look if you're interested
Aug 05 23:05:58 <michaelnovakjr__> sure, that sounds good
Aug 05 23:06:07 <michaelnovakjr__> it would be nice to see them side by side
Aug 05 23:06:28 <michaelnovakjr__> i was going more the IM route with this layout
Aug 05 23:06:34 <jasta> ok, but i won't be able to now
Aug 05 23:06:40 <michaelnovakjr__> ok
Aug 05 23:07:31 <michaelnovakjr__> i still want to put the contact picker intent in there, so i'll be working with that
Aug 05 23:08:05 <jasta> my change shouldn't mess with that too much
Aug 05 23:08:13 <jasta> if it does i'll resolve conflicts
Aug 05 23:08:42 <michaelnovakjr__> cool, it should be a separate piece... it will deal with the CreateMessage class
Aug 05 23:20:29 <michaelnovakjr__> hey romainguy_ is there a way to get the resource for the dialer icon?
Aug 05 23:20:52 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: it's not your icon!
Aug 05 23:21:02 <michaelnovakjr__> obviously
Aug 05 23:21:11 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: why would there be a way to get it then?
Aug 05 23:21:19 <Dougie187> ...
Aug 05 23:21:22 <michaelnovakjr__> because its a resource
Aug 05 23:21:30 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: yeah, but it's specific to the dialer app.
Aug 05 23:21:47 <Dougie187> do you know if the dialer app is open sourced?
Aug 05 23:21:52 <michaelnovakjr__> if i am going to give users access to the dialer i feel it would be appropriate that the icon associated with that menu item be the dialers.
Aug 05 23:22:01 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: oh
Aug 05 23:22:03 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: hmm...
Aug 05 23:22:09 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: maybe there's a way to get the icon of an application.
Aug 05 23:22:21 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: I don't think you can just grab the dialer's icon directly though.
Aug 05 23:22:29 <ttuttle> hmm
Aug 05 23:25:00 * ttuttle downloads SDK.
Aug 05 23:25:19 <romainguy_> you can access the dialer's icon through the PackageManager
Aug 05 23:25:25 <ttuttle> romainguy_: ah!
Aug 05 23:25:30 <ttuttle> romainguy_: yeah, I figured there was something like that.
Aug 05 23:25:34 <romainguy_> however, if we ever change the file name or remove it...
Aug 05 23:25:35 <ttuttle> romainguy_: also, boo, I didn't get any cupcakes!
Aug 05 23:25:49 <romainguy_> ttuttle: it's because you didn't fix enough bugs :p
Aug 05 23:26:14 <ttuttle> romainguy_: no, it's 'cause I'm too busy fixing bugs to eat cupcakes.
Aug 05 23:26:23 <romainguy_> I saw you on video
Aug 05 23:26:29 <romainguy_> you were playing with your phone
Aug 05 23:26:34 <ttuttle> romainguy_: I was stress-testing the graphics engine!
Aug 05 23:26:40 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Also I was paying attention!
Aug 05 23:27:11 <ttuttle> romainguy_: I'd prove it to you, but it's all conf :-(
Aug 05 23:28:12 <ttuttle> romainguy_: Does the PackageManager let you retrieve the icon for a particular activity?
Aug 05 23:28:19 <michaelnovakjr__> yes
Aug 05 23:28:50 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: you could also just copy it out, but the PackageManager is a better approach for sure
Aug 05 23:28:51 <ttuttle> michaelnovakjr__: Do you need to know the name of the icon, or just the activity?
Aug 05 23:29:04 <michaelnovakjr__> the package
Aug 05 23:29:19 <michaelnovakjr__> the package name to be more exact
Aug 05 23:32:13 <ttuttle> romainguy_: ping
Aug 05 23:33:15 <romainguy_> ?
Aug 05 23:33:56 <ttuttle> romainguy_: /me thinks we should bring real cake next time.
Aug 05 23:34:14 <romainguy_> at Sun in the Swing team we used to have the chocolate cake Friday
Aug 05 23:34:19 <romainguy_> that was good
Aug 05 23:34:34 <ttuttle> romainguy_: cam had mango mousse cake yesterday at lunch :-)
Aug 05 23:35:19 <ttuttle> brb, The Simpsons are on.
Aug 05 23:36:21 <f00f-> oh my
Aug 05 23:36:25 <f00f-> i need a cushy job like that
Aug 05 23:36:39 <f00f-> eveyrone thinks google employees drink while working
Aug 05 23:36:49 <f00f-> and of course romain sneaks in a chocolate cake or two
Aug 05 23:37:06 <jasta> i bet there are a lot of unlikely jobs out there cushier than google
Aug 05 23:37:21 <michaelnovakjr__> we drink on friday afternoons at work
Aug 05 23:37:27 <michaelnovakjr__> its a bit overrated
Aug 05 23:37:49 <chomchom> I don't think working at google would be 'cushy', working for the coucli is weeellll cushy
Aug 05 23:38:11 <chomchom> loads of fat types sitting around eating, drinking and reading the paper
Aug 05 23:38:11 <jasta> i dream for a government job in a forgotten agency
Aug 05 23:38:28 <jasta> dream of*
Aug 05 23:38:35 <chomchom> honestly its a joke
Aug 05 23:39:01 <f00f-> heh
Aug 05 23:39:35 <chomchom> Sometimes I think to myself, "Why the hell don't I just get a job where I'm presumed to be useless"
Aug 05 23:40:26 <jasta> i have a job where i'm presumed to be so important that no one can fathom asking me to do any additional work.
Aug 05 23:40:38 <chomchom> yes, thats the alternative
Aug 05 23:40:41 <jasta> which is far better than being presumed to be useless :)
Aug 05 23:40:46 <jasta> since i keep getting raises and stuff
Aug 05 23:41:08 <chomchom> although you probably shouldn't state it on a public forum if you want it to stay that way :)
Aug 05 23:41:25 <jasta> probably not :)
Aug 05 23:41:41 <jasta> perhaps i'd be more careful if i were in the industry, as it were.
Aug 05 23:41:44 <f00f-> as long as you do the work prescribed. nobody can question.
Aug 05 23:42:27 <jasta> Yes, sometimes you just get lucky and have managers who have unusually low expectations
Aug 05 23:42:44 <chomchom> They exist?
Aug 05 23:42:50 <jasta> Apparently, I have one.
Aug 05 23:47:30 <romainguy_> f00f-: and of course romain sneaks in a chocolate cake or two << no, that was Sun
Aug 05 23:48:20 <f00f-> ha, i bet you still do it :P
Aug 05 23:48:31 <romainguy_> no need to, food is provided for us here
Aug 05 23:48:53 <romainguy_> my favorite part is the fridge stocked with Mexican coke in the office next to mine :)
Aug 05 23:51:19 <f00f-> :D
Aug 05 23:53:15 <michaelnovakjr__> icon lookup worked
Aug 05 23:54:54 <jasta> yawn
Aug 05 23:57:05 <jasta> My Android blog is at http://devtcg.org if anyone is interested to see
Aug 05 23:57:08 <jasta> err
Aug 05 23:57:11 <jasta> damnit
Aug 05 23:57:16 <jasta> i didnt mean to paste that
Aug 06 00:02:46 <herriojr> hey, how can I install an application on an android image on, oh say, the kaiser
Aug 06 00:03:07 <michaelnovakjr__> are you running android on the kaiser?
Aug 06 00:03:14 <herriojr> yes
Aug 06 00:03:21 <jasta> herriojr: installing applications simply requires that you put them in /data/app, or /system/app.
Aug 06 00:03:27 <michaelnovakjr__> indeed
Aug 06 00:03:33 <herriojr> i've tried, but it doesn't seem to work
Aug 06 00:03:36 <herriojr> it doesn't show up in the menu
Aug 06 00:03:48 <jasta> herriojr: however, you should see android-random.googlecode.com.  We wrote a tool called HttpDownloader that lets you do this wirelessly with the device, once its booted.
Aug 06 00:03:51 <michaelnovakjr__> did you put it in /data/app ?
Aug 06 00:03:59 <jasta> herriojr: Then you did it wrong, or the app's manifest is wrong.
Aug 06 00:04:20 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, putting apps in the /system/app directory is a bit flaky
Aug 06 00:04:23 <herriojr> I took the Snake.apk that you can download everywhere to verify that wasn't the issue
Aug 06 00:04:28 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: is it?
Aug 06 00:04:34 <michaelnovakjr__> in my experience
Aug 06 00:04:36 <dcordes_> hi
Aug 06 00:04:45 <michaelnovakjr__> i put all non system apps in /data/app
Aug 06 00:04:55 <michaelnovakjr__> that does the trick for me :)
Aug 06 00:04:57 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: well that's the ideal convention, but i didn't know that it caused problems otherwise
Aug 06 00:05:15 <michaelnovakjr__> herriojr: i recommend getting the httpdownloader
Aug 06 00:05:26 <jasta> herriojr: well, if you have a data connection you can try a number of the apps we have provided.  you could even use Glance to confirm that your apps are in /data/app :)
Aug 06 00:05:30 <michaelnovakjr__> and glance to verify that you are getting the contents in the right directory
Aug 06 00:05:35 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 06 00:05:54 <herriojr> I have a data connection
Aug 06 00:06:08 <herriojr> what's the link?
Aug 06 00:06:13 <herriojr> so I can download Glance?
Aug 06 00:06:16 <michaelnovakjr__> http://android-random.googlecode.com
Aug 06 00:06:31 <michaelnovakjr__> both httpdownloader and glance are on the same project page
Aug 06 00:06:53 <jasta> the RemoteLogcat tool you may also find useful.  we certainly did.
Aug 06 00:07:00 <michaelnovakjr__> we are also finishing up a better SMS app that beats the current one hands down :)
Aug 06 00:07:14 <michaelnovakjr__> not that this says much :)
Aug 06 00:07:25 <dcordes_> we need to include that glance program in the kaiser images
Aug 06 00:07:39 <dcordes_> so people can fiddle around with it more in android
Aug 06 00:07:39 <michaelnovakjr__> and Messages dcordes_
Aug 06 00:08:04 <dcordes_> let's see if herriojr can get it working first
Aug 06 00:08:11 <michaelnovakjr__> http://code.google.com/p/android-random/wiki/Messages , dcordes_
Aug 06 00:08:13 <jasta> dcordes_: the SMS app too, assuming you have a working radio.
Aug 06 00:08:16 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr__: do you have an image for the vogue which already has those included?
Aug 06 00:08:32 <jasta> dcordes_: we use HttpDownloader to get/update devices, mostly.
Aug 06 00:08:42 <jasta> err, get/update APKs on devices :)
Aug 06 00:08:58 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, i was thinking of simplifying that too
Aug 06 00:09:04 <dcordes_> jasta: no sms doesn't work on the kaiser. we use the same reverse engineered ril phone application as you have on the vogue. since cdma and gsm sms is different, this doesn't work for kaiser.
Aug 06 00:09:10 <michaelnovakjr__> just make a list of apps to install so you don't need to know the path
Aug 06 00:09:25 <michaelnovakjr__> ah
Aug 06 00:09:27 <michaelnovakjr__> that sucks
Aug 06 00:09:31 <jasta> dcordes_: what does work on the kaiser?
Aug 06 00:09:54 <dcordes_> git.linuxtogo.org/~lgorris/kaiser-bootkit
Aug 06 00:10:18 <dcordes_> http://linuxtogo.org/~lgorris/kaiser-bootkit/README.txt
Aug 06 00:10:22 <jasta> reading already
Aug 06 00:11:39 <dcordes_> herriojr: maybe that http downloader program can help you installing the app?
Aug 06 00:12:17 <michaelnovakjr__> so the data image is different between the vogue and the kaiser?
Aug 06 00:12:41 <michaelnovakjr__> or is it just the system image?
Aug 06 00:12:44 <herriojr> yeah, I'm checking...using the browser for too long seemed to crash the phone
Aug 06 00:13:49 <jasta> dcordes_: the really powerful piece that the Vogue has working now is SD support.  that gives us a persistent storage medium.
Aug 06 00:13:56 <jasta> so data.img and system.img are hosted there
Aug 06 00:14:18 <jasta> i see here the readme says this support is still unstable.  is that true currently?
Aug 06 00:14:27 <dcordes_> yes
Aug 06 00:15:07 <jasta> so i have a question about both the vogue and kaiser...
Aug 06 00:15:27 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, will the message be squished in the conversation view with the date/time to the right?
Aug 06 00:15:32 <jasta> how on earth does the data radio work?  is this because it's a serial device and the code written by google will happily dial /dev/ttyS0?
Aug 06 00:15:56 <jasta> and it just works by some divine coincidence that the dialer codes used by google work with this radio device?
Aug 06 00:16:08 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: yes.
Aug 06 00:16:43 <michaelnovakjr__> i was trying to give the message some room, i originally had it designed like the main view
Aug 06 00:16:55 <michaelnovakjr__> and the text wrapped a little weird
Aug 06 00:18:50 <jasta> oh i see they have been a little more explicit about getting GRPS up
Aug 06 00:20:38 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: i bet the carriers are going to hate that they now need to secure their networks against all these goofy hacked devices sending bogus nonsense :)
Aug 06 00:20:51 <herriojr> lol
Aug 06 00:20:52 <jasta> like SMS messages which are very badly formed
Aug 06 00:20:52 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 06 00:21:04 <michaelnovakjr__> are they badly formed?
Aug 06 00:21:09 <jasta> or dialing the radio wrong frequently
Aug 06 00:21:23 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: well when the developer's testing/working on it, yes.
Aug 06 00:21:33 <jasta> i'm sure martin sent quite a few assbackwards messages trying to get it to work right
Aug 06 00:22:14 <michaelnovakjr__> true :)
Aug 06 00:22:24 <michaelnovakjr__> it works great for me :)
Aug 06 00:22:25 <AttractiveApe> jasta: what do you mean?  Nokia's are on their networks all the time.
Aug 06 00:22:31 <AttractiveApe> Hah, see what I did there?  ;)
Aug 06 00:22:39 <jasta> lol
Aug 06 00:25:16 <michaelnovakjr__> guess the kaiser has issues huh?
Aug 06 00:27:49 <jasta> seems to :)
Aug 06 00:27:55 <jasta> but so does the vogue
Aug 06 00:28:10 <michaelnovakjr__> doesn't seem as bad as the vogue
Aug 06 00:31:11 <dcordes_> jasta: sorry I didn't see your question, herriojr told me you were asking something. it's easy, google's evaluation hardware use the msm7500A platform, vogue is msm7500
Aug 06 00:31:23 <dcordes_> so the whole phone stuff is very similar
Aug 06 00:32:21 <michaelnovakjr__> dcordes_: does the kaiser make calls?
Aug 06 00:32:32 <dcordes_> was just about to come to that point
Aug 06 00:32:34 <dcordes_> kaiser has msm7200
Aug 06 00:32:56 <dcordes_> the phone stuff of the arm9 side interfacing with arm11 is very similar among 7200/7500
Aug 06 00:33:37 <dcordes_> it's just that the msm7200 chip is gsm, not cdma. the AT commands for phone calls are the same here
Aug 06 00:33:45 <dcordes_> but not sms and stuff so that doesn't work
Aug 06 00:34:05 <michaelnovakjr__> hm, so is it possible to get it working?
Aug 06 00:34:07 <dcordes_> so we can make phone calls. please don't ask why we can use 3g.
Aug 06 00:34:13 <michaelnovakjr__> haha
Aug 06 00:34:24 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr__: of course. we even have the (rewritten) source
Aug 06 00:34:44 <michaelnovakjr__> neat
Aug 06 00:34:53 <michaelnovakjr__> i have a vogue and the sms is great
Aug 06 00:34:56 <jasta> dcordes_: my question was about the GPRS connection.
Aug 06 00:35:13 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr__: yea because the person who rewrote the phone application, wrote it for that device
Aug 06 00:35:22 <jasta> it seems like it's just talking to a serial device, and the AT commands just happen to magically be right in the google android system-level code?
Aug 06 00:35:28 <dcordes_> person=dzo, you know him
Aug 06 00:35:49 <michaelnovakjr__> i use my sms app dcordes_
Aug 06 00:35:54 <dcordes_> jasta: ask dzo about it
Aug 06 00:36:05 <dcordes_> we have a serial interface for AT communication
Aug 06 00:36:14 <jasta> dcordes_: btw, i noticed some time ago that the Binder driver included with dzo's kernel is wrong.
Aug 06 00:36:19 <dcordes_> and a network device which handles the net data
Aug 06 00:36:20 <michaelnovakjr__> dcordes_: you also have wifi as well right?
Aug 06 00:36:22 <jasta> it uses protocol version 6, where the userland uses version 5.
Aug 06 00:36:31 <jasta> I fixed this in the version I gave to michaelnovakjr__ and others, but dzo has yet to fix it I believe.
Aug 06 00:36:32 <dcordes_> jasta: I don't know about any binder stuff
Aug 06 00:36:39 <dcordes_> michaelnovakjr__: not yet
Aug 06 00:36:52 <michaelnovakjr__> but the kaiser has wifi in it right?
Aug 06 00:36:52 <jasta> It hasn't seemed to impact system stability though.
Aug 06 00:36:55 <dcordes_> right
Aug 06 00:37:10 <jasta> the kaiser would be a much more attractive device to get working, as it has a full keyboard.
Aug 06 00:37:24 <dcordes_> it should be rather trivial because we have the msm_sdcc working, but nobody really looked in it yet I think
Aug 06 00:37:48 <jasta> dcordes_: i assume the keybaord does work?
Aug 06 00:38:51 <dcordes_> yes it does
Aug 06 00:39:04 <dcordes_> one of the first things we got on the kaiser
Aug 06 00:39:05 <jasta> dcordes_: what carrier do you use this on?
Aug 06 00:39:11 <dcordes_> vodafone germany
Aug 06 00:39:28 <jasta> dcordes_: anyone using it on AT&T?
Aug 06 00:39:37 <jasta> i'm curious about this, because i have AT&T.
Aug 06 00:39:44 <jasta> and i could just slip my SIM card in for testing
Aug 06 00:39:53 <dcordes_> of course this works with every provider
Aug 06 00:40:11 <jasta> dcordes_: well, don't you require a dialed PPP connection, with a username/password like the vogue does?
Aug 06 00:40:34 <dcordes_> oh right, I'm using angstrom, not android.
Aug 06 00:40:41 <dcordes_> I just specify the APN there
Aug 06 00:40:50 <dcordes_> inside the running system
Aug 06 00:40:50 <jasta> what's angstrom?
Aug 06 00:41:18 <dcordes_> a linux distribution
Aug 06 00:41:24 <jasta> ahh
Aug 06 00:41:29 <dcordes_> free and open source one
Aug 06 00:41:50 * jasta ponders getting a kaiser instead of a vogue for testing
Aug 06 00:41:53 <dcordes_> that's what makes it more attractive for hardware developers. you can actually test stuff
Aug 06 00:41:58 <dcordes_> unlike in android
Aug 06 00:42:20 <jasta> dcordes_: i was contemplating building a terminal app on android :)
Aug 06 00:42:26 <jasta> it would not be so hard to do, really.
Aug 06 00:43:10 <dcordes_> in the long term, I'd suggest a kaiser. if you are looking to get a tseting device for your android applications quickly, go for a vogue
Aug 06 00:43:27 <jasta> dcordes_: well, my application likely doesn't run on either.
Aug 06 00:43:35 <jasta> for some reason it hangs, and i wanted to get a device in order to figure it out :)
Aug 06 00:43:57 <jasta> i require too much variation/testing of ideas to do it by proxy with one of the guys in here who has a device.
Aug 06 00:44:02 <dcordes_> we (the kaiser guys) have nobody working on android.
Aug 06 00:44:02 <jasta> i've played with a vogue several times, but don't own one personally
Aug 06 00:44:32 <dcordes_> the whole net and phone thing in android is more stable on vogue
Aug 06 00:44:35 <jasta> how does it all work?  somebody adapted dzo's work, or is it just compatible?
Aug 06 00:44:49 <jasta> dcordes_: yeah, i assumed as much.
Aug 06 00:46:47 <jasta> i've read through a lot of his patches, but have not directly contributed as of yet.
Aug 06 00:46:59 <dcordes_> jasta: it is just compatible. I explained it above in the gsm vs cdma part.
Aug 06 00:48:36 <jasta> i meant the board itself and touchscreen driver.
Aug 06 00:48:44 <jasta> all the GPIOs...
Aug 06 00:48:58 <dcordes_> see htc-msm git
Aug 06 00:49:09 <jasta> ok
Aug 06 00:49:21 <dcordes_> it's referred to in README.txt
Aug 06 00:52:39 <jasta> this is all very interesting stuff.  i predict this type of behaviour to absolutely explode once we get sources to Android and can compile it for other targets
Aug 06 00:57:55 <michaelnovakjr__> jasta, contact picker works :)
Aug 06 00:58:50 <jasta> son of a bitch.  i never knew Message had the sendToTarget() method
Aug 06 00:59:12 * jasta has written Message msg = handler.obtainMessage(...); handler.sendMessage(msg); many times :)
Aug 06 00:59:23 <jasta> would be nice to have written handler.obtainMessage(...).sendToTarget()
Aug 06 00:59:31 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 06 01:07:08 <jasta> i had like 70% of this solitaire app already written way back in December last year :)
Aug 06 01:07:13 <jasta> i quit working on it to get started on Five.
Aug 06 01:07:20 <jasta> man, weird to think back that far.
Aug 06 01:07:23 <michaelnovakjr__> neat :)
Aug 06 01:07:31 <michaelnovakjr__> that was during m3 days though right?
Aug 06 01:07:41 <jasta> back before i painstakingly produced a 20k loc code base in a language i didn't even know at the time
Aug 06 01:07:57 <jasta> yeah, i'm updating the code.  so far, very little had to be updated since there was nothing really substantial there.
Aug 06 01:08:08 <jasta> onlayout's signature changed, that's about all i had to update
Aug 06 01:08:23 <jasta> the way i drew the cards back then was totally assbackwadrs hehe
Aug 06 01:08:28 <jasta> it makes me laugh looking at that part of this code
Aug 06 01:08:38 <jasta> i used image files for each card
Aug 06 01:08:45 <jasta> instead of just using image files for the suit and drawing it all myself
Aug 06 01:08:55 <jasta> and maybe just caching the drawables i create
Aug 06 01:10:38 <michaelnovakjr__> if i open up the initrd file on martin's stuff, how can i zip that back up again?
Aug 06 01:12:25 <jasta> sudo find . | cpio -H newc -o | gzip > ../initrd.gz
Aug 06 01:13:09 <jasta> the sudo is necessary because when you extracted it you needed to preserve permissions that only root would be bale to access
Aug 06 01:13:12 <jasta> such as the /dev entries.
Aug 06 01:13:36 <jasta> this is because you aren't really mounting th eimage, you're actually using your normal filesystem to hold/preserve permissions of the ramdisk.
Aug 06 01:14:05 <jasta> i unpacked i unpacked it with gunzip -c ... | cpio -id
Aug 06 01:14:06 <jasta> as root as well
Aug 06 01:14:18 <michaelnovakjr__> cool
Aug 06 01:15:47 <jasta> michaelnovakjr__: i'll have my solitaire app done (or at least working) by the weekend i bet
Aug 06 01:15:55 <jasta> just basically updating and finishing it
Aug 06 01:16:06 <michaelnovakjr__> nice
Aug 06 01:16:16 <jasta> i'm enjoying that you and i are producing quite a substantial amount of open source apps :)
Aug 06 01:16:28 <jasta> hopefully our good example rubs off ;)
Aug 06 01:16:31 <michaelnovakjr__> yea, its been a pleasant development
Aug 06 01:16:35 <michaelnovakjr__> experience
Aug 06 01:16:37 <gambler> do you guys take requests? :p
Aug 06 01:16:46 <jasta> gambler: don't you know anything about open source?
Aug 06 01:17:07 <gambler> jasta, no im more a free sw person :p
Aug 06 01:17:13 <jasta> we will sneer and harrass you until you attempt something interesting, but you attempt it poorly.
Aug 06 01:17:22 <jasta> then we will take over and finish it out of frustration.
Aug 06 01:17:36 <michaelnovakjr__> gambler: are you a developer?
Aug 06 01:17:49 <jasta> but until you make an effort, we will just sneer and harrass, as all good open source developers should :)
Aug 06 01:18:12 <gambler> michaelnovakjr, i know how to write sw if thats what you mean
Aug 06 01:18:55 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 06 01:19:05 <michaelnovakjr__> so you don't classify yourself as a developer i take it?
Aug 06 01:20:07 <gambler> michaelnovakjr, correct.
Aug 06 01:20:34 <michaelnovakjr__> so since you should request, what app are you about to develop?
Aug 06 01:21:02 <gambler> im sort of a wandering philosopher skeptic
Aug 06 01:21:18 <gambler> me? im working on some crypto utilities
Aug 06 01:21:37 <gambler> among other things
Aug 06 01:24:18 <dcordes_> jasta: what do you mean other targets? we have the rilphone source
Aug 06 01:26:23 <jasta> dcordes_: I mean for the entire stack.  Other phones, specifically ones with processors implementing different bytecodes.
Aug 06 01:26:29 <jasta> For example, the Neo FreeRunner.
Aug 06 01:27:44 <dcordes_> oh
Aug 06 01:27:52 <dcordes_> right
Aug 06 01:32:44 <jasta> later, dinner
Aug 06 02:09:52 <michaelnovakjr__> Messages is up for download
Aug 06 02:10:00 <michaelnovakjr__> http://code.google.com/p/android-random
Aug 06 02:11:13 <yakischloba> sweet!
Aug 06 02:13:47 <michaelnovakjr__> :)]
Aug 06 02:13:55 <yakischloba> Is it possible that onResume() of the activity that is being resumed is called before the onPause() of the finishing activity is finished?
Aug 06 02:14:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i believe so
Aug 06 02:14:46 <michaelnovakjr__> you can see from the logcat
Aug 06 02:14:55 <michaelnovakjr__> the resuming entry and the removing entry
Aug 06 02:15:12 <michaelnovakjr__> it looks that way to me :)
Aug 06 02:15:14 <yakischloba> The removing should be coming before the resuming, correct?
Aug 06 02:15:25 <michaelnovakjr__> not in the case i see
Aug 06 02:16:42 <michaelnovakjr__> i would think that is desired seeing you can share data between activities
Aug 06 02:18:00 <yakischloba> I have something the onResume of one activity that ensures some data is present. If it is not, it opens the activity to fill the data in. From a clean wiped emulator, the first time I fill in the data and finish the activity, it immediately kicks me back to that activity
Aug 06 02:18:47 <michaelnovakjr__> are you printing out the data to make sure the activity is acting properly?
Aug 06 02:19:27 <yakischloba> Printing it out where
Aug 06 02:19:36 <michaelnovakjr__> Log
Aug 06 02:19:41 <yakischloba> no. how do I do that
Aug 06 02:19:49 <michaelnovakjr__> import android.util.Log;
Aug 06 02:20:08 <yakischloba> k
Aug 06 02:20:09 <michaelnovakjr__> then call Log.d( "your app name", "data in the form of a string to print out." );
Aug 06 02:20:34 <michaelnovakjr__> then run adb logcat in a new window so you trace your log output
Aug 06 02:23:40 <michaelnovakjr__> what exactly are you doing?
Aug 06 02:25:29 <yakischloba> I'm making sure that a user has some critical information filled out before they can proceed to use the rest of the application. As a placeholder right now, I'm just making sure that the activity to fill out the data opens up from the main activity, calling the thing that checks it from both onCreate and onResume
Aug 06 02:25:52 <yakischloba> The activity to fill out the information persists information to both the Preferences, and SQlite
Aug 06 02:26:19 <yakischloba> so I'm suspecting that the main activity's onResume is checking before the information has been saved
Aug 06 02:27:21 <michaelnovakjr__> and you are calling onPause if they dont?
Aug 06 02:27:52 <michaelnovakjr__> are you using setData or putExtra?
Aug 06 02:28:07 <yakischloba> neither?
Aug 06 02:28:21 <michaelnovakjr__> if you pastebin some code i can help you out
Aug 06 02:29:08 <yakischloba> I tried to create a little abstraction for myself, so I can use easy methods to set/get data in both the preferences and this particular database table
Aug 06 02:29:13 <yakischloba> give me a few mins, i'll see if I can figure it out
Aug 06 02:29:41 <michaelnovakjr__> ok
Aug 06 02:29:42 <yakischloba> I'm pretty reserved about posting my code at this time, as I don't have time for hours of lecturing about everything I'm doing wrong :)
Aug 06 02:29:53 <michaelnovakjr__> :) i don't lecture
Aug 06 02:30:17 <yakischloba> heh
Aug 06 02:30:34 <michaelnovakjr__> i'm not a fan of it
Aug 06 02:33:26 <yakischloba> Typically I'm happy to hear everyone out, but right now I'm learning so much just as I'm going that any more is too much ;)
Aug 06 02:36:05 <michaelnovakjr__> :)
Aug 06 02:49:58 <yakischloba> Haha. I knew it was something dumb. I actually had a more complicated issue but it was the stupid thing that held me up (of course)
Aug 06 02:50:44 <michaelnovakjr__> it happens :)
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