**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 07 02:59:57 2008 Aug 07 03:11:26 muthu: the announcement of the ADC2 winners? Aug 07 03:11:36 oh yeah Aug 07 03:11:46 can you make it this week ;) Aug 07 03:12:58 romainguy_: is there a longterm roadmap for android? Aug 07 03:13:19 what do you mean? Aug 07 03:13:32 i just want to commit myself to android for a longterm Aug 07 03:13:46 so just want to make sure there are plans for android over the next 3 yrs Aug 07 03:14:18 you know, its a big risk for us.. small players Aug 07 03:15:00 unfortunately I cannot give any non-public information Aug 07 03:15:14 but I'm sure you'll be able to figure out what the answer is Aug 07 03:15:24 yeah, i know Aug 07 03:15:30 but some official confirmation would be cool Aug 07 03:16:21 am going to focus on mobeegal a bit more and get the search thing sorted out :) Aug 07 03:16:44 did you play with the 50 apps? Aug 07 03:16:55 they've been taking advantage of the community to develop their product, which they are going to make closed and proprietary, and sell to apple. Aug 07 03:17:00 nope I haven't seen them Aug 07 03:17:08 check it out Aug 07 03:17:29 yakischloba_: ?? Aug 07 03:17:39 lol Aug 07 03:17:47 romainguy__: i'm being serious. take me seriously. Aug 07 03:17:52 goog has the right intentions Aug 07 03:17:59 romainguy__: lighten up champ :) Aug 07 03:18:07 but they have not planned it right Aug 07 03:18:28 muthu: there are so many things you don't know :)) Aug 07 03:18:32 shrug...its not an easy thing to plan. Aug 07 03:18:42 am keeping the faith Aug 07 03:18:49 for a couple of reasons Aug 07 03:18:53 . android rocks Aug 07 03:19:01 . its free and opensource Aug 07 03:19:14 i mean its ridiculously easy to program android Aug 07 03:19:21 yeah it is. Aug 07 03:19:26 android is the new php for mobile Aug 07 03:19:37 I don't know if that's a compliment :)) Aug 07 03:19:41 lol Aug 07 03:19:51 ok.. android is the new python for mobile Aug 07 03:19:53 I mean, PHP has very crappy APIs ^^ Aug 07 03:19:54 well Aug 07 03:20:00 Python has very crappy APIs ^^ Aug 07 03:20:05 even someone with little programming experience and no java experience like me can walk in and start building applications Aug 07 03:20:12 yeah Aug 07 03:20:17 that's the beauty of android Aug 07 03:20:24 and more and more folks are getting it Aug 07 03:20:53 android is amazing well designed Aug 07 03:21:05 I wouldn't go that far :p Aug 07 03:21:17 haha Aug 07 03:21:20 we have unfortunately many flaws Aug 07 03:21:27 but that's expected Aug 07 03:21:31 anyway Aug 07 03:21:34 that's my bus stop Aug 07 03:21:38 see ya Aug 07 03:21:42 see ya Aug 07 03:23:46 what is your app muthu? Aug 07 03:24:10 for adc 1 - http://cookingcapsules.com Aug 07 03:24:17 for adc 2 - http://mobeegal.in Aug 07 03:24:39 lot of time on your hands? ;) Aug 07 03:24:46 yeah, full time droiding Aug 07 03:25:02 independently wealthy? ;) Aug 07 03:25:05 i've been running my own company for some time Aug 07 03:25:15 yakischloba_: i'm spoiled ;) Aug 07 03:25:19 heh nice Aug 07 03:25:31 you mean, your company runs itself at this point? ;) Aug 07 03:25:49 i'm getting there.. Aug 07 03:26:05 yakischloba_: what you do? Aug 07 03:26:38 Uhm. I work for a natural foods distributor but I have an interview at a data center in the morning. Aug 07 03:27:07 good luck Aug 07 03:27:49 jeez I sure hope so. I'm so tired of my current job. I'm pretty sure the guy interviewing me is the guy I know though, so it ought to work out. Aug 07 03:28:45 great Aug 07 03:28:55 howdy Aug 07 03:29:00 hiya Aug 07 03:29:09 sure would be nice to do android full time though. that would be a blast. Aug 07 03:29:15 hey there michaelnovakjr__ Aug 07 03:29:19 hey Aug 07 03:29:20 android full time is a dream job Aug 07 03:29:47 I usually only have a couple hours in the evening to work on it...I spend one of them figuring out what I was working on the day before Aug 07 03:29:50 indeed it would be nice Aug 07 03:29:57 :) Aug 07 03:30:59 yakischloba_: comments can help you Aug 07 03:31:18 hehe Aug 07 03:31:19 jasta, around? Aug 07 03:31:20 yeah I know ;) Aug 07 03:32:05 haha.. but no one does that Aug 07 03:32:20 i do Aug 07 03:32:30 really? let me check your code.. Aug 07 03:32:35 i try to make commit messages meaningful too Aug 07 03:32:37 * muthu goes to android-random Aug 07 03:32:41 :) Aug 07 03:32:43 I leave some comments..i also keep a text file with notes to myself Aug 07 03:32:51 I don't have any active ones muthu... Aug 07 03:32:55 i use TODO comments Aug 07 03:33:01 oh Aug 07 03:33:03 to remind myself of what i need Aug 07 03:33:11 Messages might still have a few :) Aug 07 03:33:20 i can't remember if i cleaned it up yet Aug 07 03:33:29 haha.. that's the other problem Aug 07 03:33:37 i put a lot of todo Aug 07 03:33:41 but never revisit Aug 07 03:34:05 oh, i revisit them... i put must have stuff as a TODO Aug 07 03:34:23 its always "no time" Aug 07 03:34:38 i don't have deadlines :) Aug 07 03:34:52 you need to have some ;) Aug 07 03:34:57 what for? Aug 07 03:35:08 michaelnovakjr: need to check your sms app.. is it in random? Aug 07 03:35:14 yep Aug 07 03:35:18 ok Aug 07 03:35:28 this is great stuff, btw Aug 07 03:35:29 its going to be included in Martin's next release Aug 07 03:35:33 thanks Aug 07 03:35:45 add some reusable intents Aug 07 03:35:50 like "openintents" Aug 07 03:36:01 re Aug 07 03:36:05 what do you mean by reusable? Aug 07 03:36:21 reusable "Activity" Aug 07 03:36:32 "Service" etc., Aug 07 03:36:41 what do i need a Service for? Aug 07 03:36:46 you don't Aug 07 03:36:50 may be others will Aug 07 03:36:54 for what? Aug 07 03:37:07 android-random Aug 07 03:37:14 will be random.. only if you do random stuff Aug 07 03:37:28 you can't be too picky! Aug 07 03:37:29 ooohhh, i thought you were just talking about the Messages app Aug 07 03:37:37 oh no Aug 07 03:37:50 just giving some ideas.. on attracting community Aug 07 03:38:22 i know, openintents attracted a large crowd Aug 07 03:38:31 such as... Aug 07 03:38:37 but somehow it did not materialize well Aug 07 03:40:46 romainguy_: what's the best way to build reusable components in android? Aug 07 03:41:00 make them reusable :) Aug 07 03:42:17 michaelnovakjr: if i need to use your stuff, should it be installed as an apk? Aug 07 03:42:39 if you want to use the apps themselves? Aug 07 03:43:49 if i want to use some part of your app Aug 07 03:44:06 which app in particular? Aug 07 03:44:32 nothing in particular.. but if need to.. how do i? Aug 07 03:45:07 well, the sms application uses the android standard intents Aug 07 03:45:17 for receiving and sending Aug 07 03:45:38 so, how do i use your sms intent? Aug 07 03:45:39 so your app could initiate an sms by calling the SENDTO action Aug 07 03:46:02 are you familiar with calling intents? Aug 07 03:46:25 assume i'm not familiar Aug 07 03:46:50 create an intent to call the sendto action and then start the activity Aug 07 03:47:24 are there any map related activites? Aug 07 03:47:52 http://code.google.com/android/reference/android/content/Intent.html Aug 07 03:47:58 lol Aug 07 03:48:05 thanks for the link, i've never seen it ;) Aug 07 03:48:39 i figured that :) Aug 07 03:48:44 haha Aug 07 03:49:23 i haven't really messed with maps, so i can't say for certain Aug 07 03:49:35 ok Aug 07 03:50:01 android-random is in google code right? Aug 07 03:50:42 yea Aug 07 03:51:27 lol Aug 07 03:52:00 i'm sorry muthu, are you new here? Aug 07 03:52:09 http://code.google.com/p/android-random :) Aug 07 03:52:22 lol Aug 07 03:52:25 checking out.. Aug 07 03:58:24 any good? Aug 07 03:59:54 all trash. Aug 07 04:00:39 :) Aug 07 04:17:43 yawn Aug 07 04:17:57 michaelnovakjr__: hey, i'm just about done with the basic game logic :) Aug 07 04:18:03 then it's just polish Aug 07 04:18:26 sweet Aug 07 04:18:38 Martin's going to put the Messages app in his next release Aug 07 04:18:43 nice :) Aug 07 04:18:45 what about Glance? Aug 07 04:18:53 i didn't ask him about it Aug 07 04:19:12 should include the httpdownloader too :) Aug 07 04:19:17 make it easy Downlo Aug 07 04:19:39 make it easy... not sure where the Downlo came from :) Aug 07 04:19:50 michaelnovakjr__: hehe, "i'm sorry muthu, are you new here?" :) Aug 07 04:19:54 :) Aug 07 04:20:14 he was pestering again :) Aug 07 04:20:25 hey, someone called me ;) Aug 07 04:20:52 what's up jasta? Aug 07 04:20:57 how you been? Aug 07 04:21:09 good Aug 07 04:21:21 michaelnovakjr__: alright, i've got another 2 or 3 hours then the solitaire game will be playable. Aug 07 04:23:20 jasta, sweet... i'll give it a good device test on the way to work in the morning :) Aug 07 04:23:40 michaelnovakjr__: unfortunately, the layout is pretty hardcoded at the moment for the hvga skin on the emulator Aug 07 04:23:52 one thing i want to polish is making it work nicely on lots of orientations and stuff Aug 07 04:23:56 think the resolution will be an issue? Aug 07 04:23:59 demonstrate by example how to make an app that works well on lots of devices Aug 07 04:24:12 not only just stretching the UI, but actually have different layouts. Aug 07 04:24:33 also, Klondike is what I implemented first because I assumed it would be easiest. Freecell is next. Aug 07 04:24:39 i was playing with the messages app without using the touch screen, really elementary but it was cool to see it functioned :) Aug 07 04:26:56 ok, back to coding Aug 07 04:26:57 later Aug 07 04:27:11 later :) Aug 07 04:54:15 michaelnovakjr__: hmm, i'm stepping through this bug in a debugger now and this makes absolutely no sense. Aug 07 04:54:22 i'm starting to suspect another bug in the debugger Aug 07 04:56:37 nope, it's just that same old stupid bug Aug 07 04:56:44 oh well, i figured out my logic problem without the debugger Aug 07 05:01:51 just comitted a major set of bug fixes... Aug 07 05:02:01 it's playable-ish. Aug 07 05:02:30 ugly as sin, and there's none of the usual niceties, and it never ends ;) Aug 07 05:02:33 there's no "you win" logic Aug 07 05:04:50 and i still don't have the suit images for diamonds/hearts ;) Aug 07 05:07:25 i actually need to learn more about Klondike before I can implement the end game. I don't even really know what the ideal logic is for automatically ending it. Aug 07 05:07:39 As in, I don't know when to automatically pull up the the cards onto the foundation. Aug 07 05:08:13 jasta: are more games coming? Aug 07 05:08:28 probably not. i had this game mostly written back in December and I just recently decided to finish it up. Aug 07 05:08:45 was just a simple way to learn Android at the time. Now it's a way to reinforce what I know now :) Aug 07 05:09:06 cuil Aug 07 05:09:28 cuil? Aug 07 05:09:44 cul Aug 07 05:09:50 huh? Aug 07 05:09:55 kool Aug 07 05:10:02 lame Aug 07 05:10:13 cuil is the new kool Aug 07 05:10:26 cuil is pronounced cool, it doesn't mean cool. Aug 07 05:10:46 its the next google Aug 07 05:11:26 please don't say cuil ever again to mean cool. you sound like an ignorant fanboy. Aug 07 05:11:54 cuil Aug 07 05:12:09 ouch Aug 07 05:12:10 It's just related to Irish folklore, and has no business making its way into your diction. Aug 07 05:12:21 what does it mean? Aug 07 05:12:24 in irish? Aug 07 05:12:36 It's the name of a guy, Finn McCuil. Aug 07 05:12:42 guigle Aug 07 05:12:56 and it had been around long before that stupid search engine. Aug 07 05:13:08 For example, the bar I have gone to frequently for the past 4 years is called Finn McCool's. Aug 07 05:13:35 wonder where cuil got the name from.. Aug 07 05:13:42 The legend of the man himself is hundreds of years old. Aug 07 05:14:12 muthu: It's just a guy's name. It doesn't mean anything in particular anymore. Aug 07 05:15:05 jasta: i don't think they named after the guy Aug 07 05:15:10 yes they most certainly did Aug 07 05:16:11 And yes, it was spelled Cuil, and is now spelled and pronounced Cool, even by the Irish. It does not share meaning with "cool" as you used it. Aug 07 05:16:42 that's in ireland Aug 07 05:17:08 cuil is so fail Aug 07 05:17:23 but they have an interesting concept Aug 07 05:17:30 what? Aug 07 05:17:38 i didn't find anything interesting about it Aug 07 05:17:44 its hard to read, far to much content Aug 07 05:18:19 google thinks everyone is happy with its simple layout Aug 07 05:18:22 search engines are supposed to get you to the content Aug 07 05:18:38 (fast) Aug 07 05:18:40 but there might be a crowd for a rich layout Aug 07 05:18:54 so my guess is cuil is going after those who want rich content Aug 07 05:19:01 maybe, got to get the basics right first though.. Aug 07 05:19:08 it doesnt even return relevant results Aug 07 05:19:08 agree Aug 07 05:19:11 http://failblog.org/2008/08/05/ladder-fail-3/ Aug 07 05:19:12 hehe Aug 07 05:19:18 must be relevant and rich Aug 07 05:19:27 lol Aug 07 05:19:27 duey: you made me go there ;) Aug 07 05:19:42 jasta, yeah its my favourite word now Aug 07 05:19:44 <3 failblog Aug 07 05:19:48 http://failblog.org/2008/08/05/bathroom-hook-fail/ Aug 07 05:19:51 oh boy, i could go on forever Aug 07 05:20:29 http://failblog.org/2008/08/04/clearance-fail/ -- oh *SHIT* Aug 07 05:20:31 ive spent hours on that site Aug 07 05:21:18 ditto Aug 07 05:23:46 HAHAHA Aug 07 05:23:49 http://failblog.org/2008/07/31/animal-identification-fail/ Aug 07 05:23:51 oh my god Aug 07 05:23:52 that's awesome Aug 07 05:51:17 michaelnovakjr__: *poke* Aug 07 06:59:30 michaelnovakjr__: i made a skin that is 240x320 just like the Vogue :) Aug 07 07:03:07 michaelnovakjr__: you know what's interesting. at this resolution, the emulator seems to run much faster. it runs much more like the device does. Aug 07 07:04:06 hmm, only the gui or is the scheduler working better aswell? Aug 07 07:04:23 just the gui, i'm sure. Aug 07 07:04:39 jasta, any recommendations on where to stay in downtown seattle for the weekend? Aug 07 07:05:19 i have got a big problem to get a isochronos rtp stream out of the emu Aug 07 07:05:29 f00f-: Downtown is too expensive, and it sucks, basically. Aug 07 07:05:56 hmm Aug 07 07:06:37 knowing what i know about the city, i'd stay on Aurora somewhere North Seattle and just roll on out to Fremont or whatever for drinkin' Aug 07 07:06:58 All the downtown hotels are near trendy night clubs and other lameness. Aug 07 07:07:21 and they are like $200 or more a night. Whereas just a few miles north on Aurora you can stay in a mediocre hotel for about $100. Aug 07 07:08:01 But if you must stay downtown, do know that the only bar with anything there is Fado's. Aug 07 07:08:15 hmm, well i'm not looking for a bad hotel experience either :P Aug 07 07:08:15 worth anything* Aug 07 07:08:20 any place with a view of the cityscape? Aug 07 07:09:30 probably quite a few :) Aug 07 07:09:33 jasta: f00f- has a lot of money to burn ;) Aug 07 07:09:50 the coolest place to see a view of the city is anywhere just slightly east of I-5 in the downtown area Aug 07 07:10:11 not sure if there are hotels there though. i've been to several condos up on that side though and it's really sweet up there Aug 07 07:10:17 nice Aug 07 07:10:22 thx, i'll take a look Aug 07 07:10:23 seattle is basically one giant hill moving up East from the water. Aug 07 07:10:28 ah Aug 07 07:10:45 that's why all the streets in the heart of downtown look to orient themselves different than all the others. Aug 07 07:10:57 Queen Anne also has incredible views of downtown. Aug 07 07:11:05 because it can see across the water Aug 07 07:11:15 queen anne is also cooler than downtown :) Aug 07 07:13:44 really, downtown nightlife is basically just night clubs. the bars are awful down there (except Fado's *grin*) Aug 07 07:14:18 Capitol Hill is where all the music venues are, and also where most of Seattle's edginess comes from :) Aug 07 07:15:12 Fremont has the best overall night life hands down, though. Aug 07 07:16:25 cool, good to hear Aug 07 07:16:33 is the minus the bear or whatever from there too? Aug 07 07:16:37 :P Aug 07 07:17:31 they're from Seattle, I don't know whereabouts. Aug 07 07:18:19 if the weather's nice, go to Greenlake. It's way crowded but in a good way. Lots of half naked girls ;) Aug 07 07:18:30 oh my Aug 07 07:18:44 seattle sounds so much better already Aug 07 07:18:52 lol Aug 07 07:18:55 you'd be a stone's throw from my house too. Aug 07 07:19:19 jasta: now we know why you stay in seattle ;) Aug 07 07:20:08 well, Seattle's got nothing on SoCal. Aug 07 07:20:47 f00f-: The U District is a fun area too. There's basically just one street called The Ave (it's really University Way, don't ask), everything is off of that. Aug 07 07:21:16 In the summer time I swear it should be illegal to drive through there. So many hot girls you can't hope to keep your car driving straight. Aug 07 07:21:36 haha daym! Aug 07 07:23:12 Also, best gyro you've ever had is at Aladdin's Gyrocery toward the north side on the ave. Aug 07 07:23:48 but actually the U District is not a good place to go out at night by yourself. it's full of rowdy drunkards. Aug 07 07:25:12 hmm gyro's Aug 07 07:27:40 f00f-: What brings you to Seattle by the way? Something going on I should know about? :) Aug 07 07:28:03 ``So many hot girls`` Aug 07 07:28:04 :P Aug 07 07:43:09 yikes, almost 1am Aug 07 07:43:12 time for bed for sure Aug 07 07:43:20 you work crazy! Aug 07 07:43:23 if anyone's curious, my crappy Klondike game does work now. Aug 07 07:43:33 it's in SVN at android-random.googlecode.com Aug 07 07:43:40 does it involve doing things for a klondike bar? Aug 07 07:43:44 cuil.. checking out Aug 07 07:44:10 jasta: can I request a protocol buffers IPC/RPC layer for one of your examples? Aug 07 07:44:16 it's actually mostly a Solitaire engine, with Klondike currently implemented as a simple demo. Aug 07 07:44:28 the android engineers arent doing anything with it from what romainguy has said Aug 07 07:44:30 I will support Freecell soon, which is the Solitaire game I prefer. Aug 07 07:44:37 :p Aug 07 07:44:56 gambler: What? You mean can you request that I write up an example using protocol buffers on Android? Aug 07 07:45:15 jasta, no just a new communications framework Aug 07 07:45:28 I'm not really interested in that. Aug 07 07:45:32 :( Aug 07 07:45:37 Why would you want a new IPC system in Android anyway? Aug 07 07:45:50 the existing systems leave something to be desired Aug 07 07:45:55 Like? Aug 07 07:45:57 webservices = fat Aug 07 07:46:07 sms = unelegant semantics Aug 07 07:46:18 gtalkservice = meh Aug 07 07:46:29 what does that got to do with the IPC transport? Aug 07 07:46:31 webservices are lean and mean Aug 07 07:46:40 unless you go the raw TCP proto route, which can become unwieldy Aug 07 07:46:45 f00f-, pass that joint over here Aug 07 07:46:47 it's what you make of it Aug 07 07:46:55 * f00f- takes a puff and passes it Aug 07 07:47:01 well more like RPC Aug 07 07:47:15 what does that have to do with the RPC transport, then? Aug 07 07:47:51 er , they are very tight efficient little messages Aug 07 07:48:05 you can have fat RPC like CORBA and SOAP and XML-RPC Aug 07 07:48:15 or you can mnake your own lightwieght REST-based or whatver on top of http Aug 07 07:48:40 gambler: So you're wanting Google to use protocol buffers in place of what, exactly? Aug 07 07:49:39 i dont think in place of anything...there isnt really any subsystem for RPCs say across bluetooth Aug 07 07:49:40 Or are you just wanting them to implement a generic protocol buffers encoding library in Android? I bet something like that has already been written for Java. Aug 07 07:49:54 no im talking about the transport layer Aug 07 07:50:13 gambler: Protocol buffers aren't for RPC either. They're just a data representation. Aug 07 07:50:38 not really you can define Services in proto messages Aug 07 07:50:46 its just that part of the code wasnt released Aug 07 07:51:02 you can see a working implementation of the exact same idea in apache thrift Aug 07 07:51:02 this isn't transpor tlayer by the way. Aug 07 07:51:06 it's application layer. Aug 07 07:51:15 RPC isnt transport? ok i wont argue Aug 07 07:51:34 anyway protobuf is like the IDL....that needs an RPC layer Aug 07 07:51:54 well, as i said, i bet a java library for it exists already. Aug 07 07:52:00 if not, it would be trivial to produce. Aug 07 07:52:03 im honestly not an experienced enough coder to write a robust RPC layer...im a statistician :) Aug 07 07:52:20 protocol buffers as i understand it would not implement an RPC layer, you'd still have to do that yourself. Aug 07 07:52:53 the work flow of protobuf is kind of tied in with RPC Aug 07 07:53:15 RPC is more a logical mechanism to support end-to-end serialization of simple call mechanics of programming languages. Aug 07 07:53:21 thats why you can define Service (SearchMethod) returns (SearchResponse); inside the .proto file Aug 07 07:53:28 It generally has little to do with the encoding of the data, or the transport it goes over. Aug 07 07:54:04 gambler: That still isn't RPC. That's still just data representation. RPC refers to the mechanics that lay atop the encoding. Aug 07 07:54:22 But specifically logic, not data. Aug 07 07:54:37 hmmm i wont argue over semantics with you. anyway we both agree there is only an IDL not an RPC now. Aug 07 07:54:46 Apache thrift has a decent RPC system bundled with it Aug 07 07:54:49 Protocol buffers are akin to XDR. Alone, it would not implement RPC. Aug 07 07:55:06 but ONC RPC required XDR to implement RPC. Still, XDR was not RPC. Aug 07 07:55:25 riiight Aug 07 07:55:46 aiee Aug 07 07:55:51 I actually don't care that Google has not implemented some new sort of RPC for Android. That seems entirely unnecessary. Most of their and others useful services are REST-ful web services. Aug 07 07:56:57 Usually using XML for data representation. Aug 07 07:57:00 true... i personally find that approach really gross but it does work. Aug 07 07:57:13 And that piece could stand to improve. Android's binary XML format may even be a good alternative there. Aug 07 07:57:21 Or possibly WbXML, which is why my project uses. Aug 07 07:57:39 I think REST-ful web services are quite elegant, actually. It's just that XML for data is not so elegant. Aug 07 07:58:23 i swore off xml along time ago Aug 07 07:58:42 im a pre xml computer person Aug 07 07:58:44 But the semantic argument you tried to avoid is the real argument. The web services themselves don't dictate XML, the implementors do. Aug 07 07:58:57 REST-ful web services can and do exist that do not use XML for data representation. Aug 07 07:59:02 You could even use protocol buffers. Aug 07 07:59:48 ah good point I never thought of that... Aug 07 07:59:50 you could argue even http is a little chunky compared to a binary protocol Aug 07 07:59:56 hey, what's the current device to device protocol in android? Aug 07 07:59:58 Google isn't forcing you to do anything: you're just frustrated by the Way Things Are (TM) :) Aug 07 08:00:06 muthu, not yet implemented Aug 07 08:00:10 muthu: GTalk, basically. But they don't really tell us much yet. Aug 07 08:00:16 ok Aug 07 08:00:24 2 different answers ;) Aug 07 08:00:30 same answer Aug 07 08:00:50 muthu: Well, the problem is that they kind of laid out that GTalk will be great, but then they never did anything with it, or told us about it. Aug 07 08:00:59 So nobody could actually develop an application to take advantage of their vision Aug 07 08:01:23 Perhaps that is a 1.0 revelation. Aug 07 08:01:56 may b Aug 07 08:02:54 but they have done that with most of Android, really. Aug 07 08:03:19 we don't know anything about their market app, how their services will be integrated, what their providers/services will look like, what intents will be used, ... Aug 07 08:03:27 they laid out all this framework but never showed us what to plug it into. Aug 07 08:03:39 jasta, thats because they dont know those things either Aug 07 08:03:49 its kind of an incremental learning approach Aug 07 08:04:23 i think a big part of their strategy revolves around things like the ADC (see what they come up with, and we'll cherry pick what to integrate) Aug 07 08:05:43 ok, bed time. Aug 07 08:05:51 nite Aug 07 08:05:56 http://blogs.sun.com/jag/resource/Fallacies.html Aug 07 08:06:01 nite Aug 07 08:07:12 gambler: why do we need rpc? Aug 07 08:07:49 muthu, it lets you design your own cheap network protocols Aug 07 08:08:03 without having to go crazy relearning networking concepts Aug 07 08:08:31 what about the existing ones? Aug 07 08:10:03 do something new :) Aug 07 08:10:12 but rpc would be cool though Aug 07 11:38:46 Someone here ? I got a problem with my LocationsProvider. I'm always getting the response that there should be no providers available. What am I doing wrong? Here is some code snippet: http://rafb.net/p/M6F5Fk16.html Aug 07 11:43:41 got it :/ access permissions Aug 07 11:43:42 :) Aug 07 12:41:56 yo Aug 07 12:42:44 yo Aug 07 13:23:40 morning Aug 07 13:28:33 morning Aug 07 13:39:13 michaelnovakjr: how many hours do you sleep per night? ;) Aug 07 13:39:24 about 6 or so Aug 07 13:39:48 ah i figured as much. you ought to get more than that Aug 07 13:45:19 :) Aug 07 13:45:35 if i sleep more than 6 hours i end up being more tired. Aug 07 13:46:36 i take it you dont participate in any heavy physical exercise Aug 07 13:54:44 i can live on 6 hours sleep for months...but I have occasional bouts of complete narcolepsy Aug 07 13:56:15 yakischloba, you will have to get used to it if you want to follow in your pa's footsteps... Aug 07 13:56:23 I hear Adderall helps :) Aug 07 13:56:46 6hrs sleep is good enough Aug 07 13:56:59 less than 6 is a problem Aug 07 13:57:18 gambler: yeah I don't think he slept much ;) Aug 07 13:57:34 yakischloba: i am a very active person :) Aug 07 13:57:56 michaelnovakjr, tennis? Aug 07 13:58:04 soccer and softball Aug 07 13:58:12 cool Aug 07 13:58:33 i just know when im training a lot i need like 2 extra hours of sleep every night Aug 07 13:58:48 my body feels very grumpy otherwise Aug 07 13:59:02 do you watch the show the Wire? Aug 07 13:59:09 6 hours is on average... there are nights i get 8 hours, and on the weekends sometimes it can be like 12 :) Aug 07 13:59:21 shit..the laces on my nice shoes are all torn up :( Aug 07 14:00:27 gambler: never heard of it Aug 07 14:00:32 my sick issue is that my mind is clearest at night...midnight here and im wasting my best brain time chatting and surfing the net Aug 07 14:00:52 yakischloba, its about cops in baltimore Aug 07 14:01:06 my mental image of you is one of the characters Aug 07 14:01:30 lol? what does this image look like Aug 07 14:02:44 hehe dont kill me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_%22Herc%22_Hauk (different personality ofc) Aug 07 14:03:01 just some huge white guy who works at a natural food store Aug 07 14:03:09 haha Aug 07 14:03:20 am i right? Aug 07 14:03:25 well Aug 07 14:03:28 yes and no Aug 07 14:03:42 I am a white guy with a shaved head, though I just shaved it a couple months ago and never had before in my life Aug 07 14:04:01 im so f ing good it sickens me Aug 07 14:04:10 :p Aug 07 14:04:38 so what your not big? u skinny kid Aug 07 14:04:48 however, it is optimal to be very thin in cycling. muscle bulk is of little advantage so...I'm not there yet but I'm definitely not as thick as that dude :) Aug 07 14:05:14 ah well if i knew u were a cyclist Aug 07 14:05:19 heh Aug 07 14:05:25 i must say you were pretty close Aug 07 14:05:38 at one point i may have looked a bit more like that Aug 07 14:06:20 your one of the more active channel participants so its easier to profile you, FBI style. I scan every days traffic when i wake up Aug 07 14:06:42 you need to work on your material Aug 07 14:06:44 j/k Aug 07 14:07:01 haha Aug 07 14:07:09 hah Aug 07 14:07:13 :p Aug 07 14:09:45 gambler: for your viewing enjoyment http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v287/156/4/505927163/n505927163_566112_4546.jpg Aug 07 14:10:31 damn son im trying to eat here Aug 07 14:10:35 (spits out food) Aug 07 14:10:47 lol Aug 07 14:11:20 thats so funny how you guessed ;) Aug 07 14:13:04 ok michael your turn :p Aug 07 14:13:07 haha Aug 07 14:13:12 you too gambler Aug 07 14:13:33 :) Aug 07 14:13:50 i doubt you could profile me accurately :) Aug 07 14:14:23 I actually gotta run out the door to get to my interview. I'll be demanding these pics later. Aug 07 14:14:28 challenge ? :p Aug 07 14:14:35 aight Aug 07 14:14:36 someone log this for me :) Aug 07 14:15:05 :) Aug 07 14:15:31 poor kid...tell him im some gorgeous little 21 yr old who hides behind a male alias Aug 07 14:16:38 michael: you wear glasses? Aug 07 14:16:50 (or contacts) Aug 07 14:17:06 glasses Aug 07 14:17:12 +1 gambler Aug 07 14:17:16 :) Aug 07 14:17:19 >30 yrs Aug 07 14:17:27 wait Aug 07 14:17:31 >27 yrs Aug 07 14:17:50 nope Aug 07 14:19:28 midwesterner? Aug 07 14:19:35 nope Aug 07 14:20:10 former public servant? i gotta have some saves here Aug 07 14:21:30 i was a volunteer firefighter/emt a while back Aug 07 14:22:26 mmm ok thats more like it...you have a sense of conservativeness to you id say Aug 07 14:22:34 i think overall im grasping at straws here though Aug 07 14:22:38 i just dont have enough information Aug 07 14:25:24 i rate my performance C- Aug 07 14:25:53 poor detective gambler Aug 07 14:26:15 :) Aug 07 14:26:24 i am pretty conversative you could say Aug 07 14:26:50 re Aug 07 14:27:03 Good evening guys and firefighters. :-) Aug 07 14:27:31 ah shucks :p Aug 07 14:28:00 sup Aug 07 14:32:49 yawn Aug 07 14:35:41 michaelnovakjr: i made a vogue layout (240x320px) Aug 07 14:56:36 morning Aug 07 14:56:54 michaelnovakjr: also, my solitaire game is playable, though still ugly as sin. Aug 07 14:57:41 So I'm getting now to the UI :P Aug 07 14:59:12 hey jasta Aug 07 14:59:30 i just loaded up your vogue skin about 20 minutes ago Aug 07 14:59:44 and the latest Solitaire build Aug 07 14:59:52 the focus looks good :) Aug 07 15:03:44 it does!? Aug 07 15:04:02 i hate the way it looks, i was going to polish the visuals tonight Aug 07 15:04:17 i didnt touch the card drawing code since i wrote it back in december :) Aug 07 15:04:22 nice Aug 07 15:04:44 and i will need to come up with a more general layout so it fits on the vogue Aug 07 15:05:44 yea that would be awesome Aug 07 15:06:01 i will do that today Aug 07 15:06:05 tonight, rather. Aug 07 15:07:07 i am gearing up for my major project Aug 07 15:07:16 and the game i'm doing :) Aug 07 15:07:23 what majro project? Aug 07 15:08:01 once i finish this solitaire game, i'm going to start plowing throuhg Five code. lots of stuff needs to be rewritten. Aug 07 15:08:21 i'm going to write an open implementation of push services into zimbra Aug 07 15:08:36 yikes ;) Aug 07 15:08:37 the goal is to write a full zimbra setup for android Aug 07 15:08:59 zimbra has push... but its part of their enterprise package Aug 07 15:11:38 we should write a better home screen for the vogue ;) Aug 07 15:12:00 :) Aug 07 15:13:30 michaelnovakjr, u know about this? http://openchange.org Aug 07 15:14:22 gambler: that is interesting Aug 07 15:14:38 i wish there was a calendar on android Aug 07 15:14:58 this stuff would have been useful for building applications that want to work with system apps like these Aug 07 15:31:56 michaelnovakjr: agreed. it bothers me that there is this elaborate IPC system to communicate with other apps but then no apps to communicate with :) Aug 07 15:32:09 yea Aug 07 15:32:20 i love the communication system for apps, its really elegant Aug 07 15:32:53 it was really nice integrating the messages app with the dialer and contacts Aug 07 15:51:17 Why is that button ( http://rafb.net/p/RE5STq47.html ) not alligned to the bottom ? Aug 07 15:52:03 what's layout_gravity=fill_vertical? Aug 07 15:53:39 Grow the vertical size of the object if needed so it completely fills its container. Aug 07 15:53:52 But that should fill_parent do as well right ? Aug 07 15:54:04 anno^da_: isnt that what height=fill_parent does? Aug 07 15:54:17 yeah I thought so Aug 07 15:54:34 just added it because the bottom didnt align to the bottom of the screen Aug 07 15:54:49 anyway, you want androdi:graivty=bottom Aug 07 15:54:58 remove that layout_gravity in the linearlayout Aug 07 15:55:19 also, do not that you can use layout_weight to accomplish a similar effect if you then want to place a widget in that region above the button Aug 07 15:56:38 yeah I removed the attribute again but the bottom is not alligned to the bottom :D Aug 07 15:57:37 I went through all the attributes but hmm well I dont get the point why it doesnt work. Aug 07 15:58:40 i dont have time to confirm, but you can also try android:gravity=bottom in the outer layout Aug 07 15:58:50 the layout_gravity=bottom should be on the button Aug 07 15:59:00 the linearlayout shouldn't need it Aug 07 15:59:14 layout_gravity.... puts the element at that point on the parent layout Aug 07 15:59:28 yeah Aug 07 16:01:05 are you eventually going to put something in that space above the button? Aug 07 16:02:28 I have a view TextViews and TextInput fields alligned to the top Aug 07 16:02:36 thats not the right way to do this Aug 07 16:02:42 ok :) Aug 07 16:02:45 Aug 07 16:02:53 Aug 07 16:02:58 ... other stuffs ... Aug 07 16:03:02 Aug 07 16:03:06